2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[macdanger2]

I wouldn't move AOS either, like maigheo said, it didn't work in the league. If Barry were to start, it'd have to be on the edge of the square - no chance horan would play a wildcard like that at this stage though.

[Lar Naparka]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.
I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

[Mayo4Sam]

Was listening to McConville on Second Captains yesterday, he was pretty adamant that COC would play, based on it being a four week break and the player himself being absolutely gung-ho to play. He referenced Shefflin a few years ago, COC is that magnitude of a player for us, 12 for 12 placed balls, how many did we miss on Sunday, even when the game was wrapped up?

I think an unchanged side.

Higgins didnt work in himself but he was responsible for at least 1-4 of our scores by allowing our backs (but in particular Cunniffe and Barrett) to let loose all inhibitions and raid forward.
Not sure how you could drop Vaughan Moysider, I wasnt his greatest fan before this year but he has been outstanding, he's a nailed on all-star and is vital to our attacking play

[Jinxy]

Play O'Connor and tell him to sit out beside the corner flag until he's needed to take a free.

[moysider]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

Nobody is suggesting wholesale changes. But there are options to be considered.

It would be unfair to question Horan s judgement too much I know. But I don t think he got the COC substitution right the last day for one.

A lot has been made about our bench as well but we seemed reluctant to use it the last day when we were in trouble.

[Lar Naparka]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

Nobody is suggesting wholesale changes. But there are options to be considered.

It would be unfair to question Horan s judgement too much I know. But I don t think he got the COC substitution right the last day for one.

A lot has been made about our bench as well but we seemed reluctant to use it the last day when we were in trouble.

I know you're not suggesting that, moy but there are plenty of others who do. I'm talking of Mayo fans in general and not posters to this board.
I've been a solid fan of Horan's since the day he took on the job but the one fault I do find with him is the fact that he can be remarkably reluctant at times to make changes even when the need to do so is obvious to everyone else.
I think he horsed thing up a bit at the start of last year's final when he failed to react to Murphy's move outfield.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by COC's substitution.  I think he shouldn't have started him in the first place as the risk of injury was too high to take. Enda took a lot time to settle in-seemed to me that he was over-anxious but, as the game wore on, his confidence increased and he showed superb ball control at times.
He's a handy man to have on the bench and that's for sure.
Horan's belief in Freeman and Vaughan has been vindicated. He saw something in both that I and many others couldn't.
I can't see either being left o n the bench for the final. Come to think of it, I expect at least 13 of the 15 who started the last day will do so again in the final.
Our James is not a man for wholesale changes and, apart from Cillian, I think Andy is the only one at risk. He's be an asset to any team in the land if he was at full fitness but it's clear that he has a bit to go yet.
Conroy is available again and that's good news He has to be fitted in somewhere. I see him taking Andy's spot with Enda replacing Cillian.

[tonysoprano]

Really looking forward to the 22nd. Was down in Dublin for the weekend for the semi and what a great weekend it was, even if the match was nothing special. Thank God we had the bank holiday up North because it was a late night! The Mayo and Tyrone supporters made the weekend and I hope to get down again and jump on the Mayo Bandwagon.

[Tubberman]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

Nobody is suggesting wholesale changes. But there are options to be considered.

It would be unfair to question Horan s judgement too much I know. But I don t think he got the COC substitution right the last day for one.

A lot has been made about our bench as well but we seemed reluctant to use it the last day when we were in trouble.

I know you're not suggesting that, moy but there are plenty of others who do. I'm talking of Mayo fans in general and not posters to this board.
I've been a solid fan of Horan's since the day he took on the job but the one fault I do find with him is the fact that he can be remarkably reluctant at times to make changes even when the need to do so is obvious to everyone else.
I think he horsed thing up a bit at the start of last year's final when he failed to react to Murphy's move outfield.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by COC's substitution.  I think he shouldn't have started him in the first place as the risk of injury was too high to take. Enda took a lot time to settle in-seemed to me that he was over-anxious but, as the game wore on, his confidence increased and he showed superb ball control at times.
He's a handy man to have on the bench and that's for sure.
Horan's belief in Freeman and Vaughan has been vindicated. He saw something in both that I and many others couldn't.
I can't see either being left o n the bench for the final. Come to think of it, I expect at least 13 of the 15 who started the last day will do so again in the final.
Our James is not a man for wholesale changes and, apart from Cillian, I think Andy is the only one at risk. He's be an asset to any team in the land if he was at full fitness but it's clear that he has a bit to go yet.
Conroy is available again and that's good news He has to be fitted in somewhere. I see him taking Andy's spot with Enda replacing Cillian.

So he should have left Cillian on the sideline for the rest of the year after the Galway game?
6 goals and 8 points says it was worth the risk...

[ross4life]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.
I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

I'd say O'Connor scored more against Donegal than Conroy managed in five championship games last year.

[Lar Naparka]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

Nobody is suggesting wholesale changes. But there are options to be considered.

It would be unfair to question Horan s judgement too much I know. But I don t think he got the COC substitution right the last day for one.

A lot has been made about our bench as well but we seemed reluctant to use it the last day when we were in trouble.

I know you're not suggesting that, moy but there are plenty of others who do. I'm talking of Mayo fans in general and not posters to this board.
I've been a solid fan of Horan's since the day he took on the job but the one fault I do find with him is the fact that he can be remarkably reluctant at times to make changes even when the need to do so is obvious to everyone else.
I think he horsed thing up a bit at the start of last year's final when he failed to react to Murphy's move outfield.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by COC's substitution.  I think he shouldn't have started him in the first place as the risk of injury was too high to take. Enda took a lot time to settle in-seemed to me that he was over-anxious but, as the game wore on, his confidence increased and he showed superb ball control at times.
He's a handy man to have on the bench and that's for sure.
Horan's belief in Freeman and Vaughan has been vindicated. He saw something in both that I and many others couldn't.
I can't see either being left o n the bench for the final. Come to think of it, I expect at least 13 of the 15 who started the last day will do so again in the final.
Our James is not a man for wholesale changes and, apart from Cillian, I think Andy is the only one at risk. He's be an asset to any team in the land if he was at full fitness but it's clear that he has a bit to go yet.
Conroy is available again and that's good news He has to be fitted in somewhere. I see him taking Andy's spot with Enda replacing Cillian.

So he should have left Cillian on the sideline for the rest of the year after the Galway game?
6 goals and 8 points says it was worth the risk...

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion.  I never stated or implied that he shouldn't have played in any game from the start of our season. It was obvious from the start the last day that he was having some problem with his shoulder. I noticed him flexing the shoulder from time to tie when play was elsewhere and I expected the worst when he went down.
The dunt that decked him wouldn't have bothered him if his shoulder wasn't injured already.
Now, a fit Cillian would be an invaluable asset going into the final but because of what happened last Sunday, he's very unlikely to be at his best- if he plays at all. I think it's fair to assume that whether Dublin or Kerry meet us in the final, the going will be harder than it was at any time so far.
As it is now, he is going to be targeted by the opposition if he plays any part of the game and his shoulder will be put to the test and that's a very mild way of putting it.
Apart from all of that, there's the lad's own welfare to think about.
I'd hate to see him left with chronic arthritis or the likes for the rest of his life.

[Lar Naparka]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.
I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

I'd say O'Connor scored more against Donegal than Conroy managed in five championship games last year.

I'd love to have the pair of them in action but they're different types of player with different roles to play. I never suggested that Mickey's coming will cancel out Cillian's departure if Cillian isn't available but it will help to offset his loss.

[Tubberman]

Jeez Moysider,going by your post you think there should be 3 or 4 changes for the final which to me is just not on.And A.OShea to chf would be daft in my opinion as was proven in the league.I would be surprised if Cillian O connor starts the final and I think Horan is just putting that out there to keep the other team guessing.Looking forward to the game as I think Mayo will be really primed to take Sam across the shannon and it will take a very good performance from Dublin or Kerry to derail them.

+1
I agree with all that.
Horan would be mad if he was to start making wholesale changes now. His judgement hasn't let him down so far this year and there's no reason to suppose that the 15 he puts on the field won't be the best available to him.I can't see COC starting but Mickey C is almost back to his best and he will offset Cillian's loss to a great extent. It would be lovely to have them both in top shape for the game but Horan must go with what he's got on the day.
A lot will depend on what we see next Sunday but, with or without Cillian, I see no reason to be despondent.

Nobody is suggesting wholesale changes. But there are options to be considered.

It would be unfair to question Horan s judgement too much I know. But I don t think he got the COC substitution right the last day for one.

A lot has been made about our bench as well but we seemed reluctant to use it the last day when we were in trouble.

I know you're not suggesting that, moy but there are plenty of others who do. I'm talking of Mayo fans in general and not posters to this board.
I've been a solid fan of Horan's since the day he took on the job but the one fault I do find with him is the fact that he can be remarkably reluctant at times to make changes even when the need to do so is obvious to everyone else.
I think he horsed thing up a bit at the start of last year's final when he failed to react to Murphy's move outfield.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by COC's substitution.  I think he shouldn't have started him in the first place as the risk of injury was too high to take. Enda took a lot time to settle in-seemed to me that he was over-anxious but, as the game wore on, his confidence increased and he showed superb ball control at times.
He's a handy man to have on the bench and that's for sure.
Horan's belief in Freeman and Vaughan has been vindicated. He saw something in both that I and many others couldn't.
I can't see either being left o n the bench for the final. Come to think of it, I expect at least 13 of the 15 who started the last day will do so again in the final.
Our James is not a man for wholesale changes and, apart from Cillian, I think Andy is the only one at risk. He's be an asset to any team in the land if he was at full fitness but it's clear that he has a bit to go yet.
Conroy is available again and that's good news He has to be fitted in somewhere. I see him taking Andy's spot with Enda replacing Cillian.

So he should have left Cillian on the sideline for the rest of the year after the Galway game?
6 goals and 8 points says it was worth the risk...

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion.  I never stated or implied that he shouldn't have played in any game from the start of our season. It was obvious from the start the last day that he was having some problem with his shoulder. I noticed him flexing the shoulder from time to tie when play was elsewhere and I expected the worst when he went down.
The dunt that decked him wouldn't have bothered him if his shoulder wasn't injured already.
Now, a fit Cillian would be an invaluable asset going into the final but because of what happened last Sunday, he's very unlikely to be at his best- if he plays at all. I think it's fair to assume that whether Dublin or Kerry meet us in the final, the going will be harder than it was at any time so far.
As it is now, he is going to be targeted by the opposition if he plays any part of the game and his shoulder will be put to the test and that's a very mild way of putting it.
Apart from all of that, there's the lad's own welfare to think about.
I'd hate to see him left with chronic arthritis or the likes for the rest of his life.

He seemed fine to me until he fell on his shoulder on the end line s minute or two before the shoulder finally went.
There has been a risk all summer that it would go again.

[Syferus]

Anyone with that much strapping on a shoulder never looks fine. It's a minor wonder he survived London and Donegal intact.

[Lar Naparka]

Anyone with that much strapping on a shoulder never looks fine. It's a minders woner he survived London and Donegal intact.

Sound man Syf; did I ever disagree with ya yet?
The odds were high that we'd have won every match to date without Cillian starting in any of them. I'd have given him a run okay just to keep him sharp or to bring him on if the going got tough at any stage but it was unwise to have him play every game.
Sure, there would still be risks if he only came on as a sub but they would be considerably less.
Right now, 3-3 against London or 3-4 against Donegal counts for sweet FA.

[Tubberman]

Anyone with that much strapping on a shoulder never looks fine. It's a minders woner he survived London and Donegal intact.

Sound man Syf; did I ever disagree with ya yet?
The odds were high that we'd have won every match to date without Cillian starting in any of them. I'd have given him a run okay just to keep him sharp or to bring him on if the going got tough at any stage but it was unwise to have him play every game.
Sure, there would still be risks if he only came on as a sub but they would be considerably less.
Right now, 3-3 against London or 3-4 against Donegal counts for sweet FA.

Hindsight is great alright. I don't recall you voicing your concerns in advance of the Donegal or Tyrone games though