Hurling puts football in the shade

[Il Bomber Destro]

I have only a passing interest in hurling, wouldn't go to a game but find it very watchable on TV, i have a big interest in football but many a game on Tv am changing the channel back and forth the games be of that poor a spectacle.

Even tight games of recent weeks i find the style of play boring to watch and honestly think football seemed to be a better sport for spectators back in the 90`s

The tripe of harking back to the old days is nonsense, there were plenty of god damn awful games back in the 90s. Big aimless punts in the forwards was anything but enjoyable, football has evolved, players have got bigger, stronger quicker, lads who couldn't solo with their weaker foot never mind kick points. The skills of the modern day player are much higher now but the way players have evolved physically and athletically in modern sport necessitates that packed defences are employed. I could not take a game seriously where teams play wide open and big, strong, quick guys just burst through the middle every time for goal chances.

Ciaran McDonald was very good on Second Captains a couple of years back and said he would enjoy playing the game today as it requires more thought and composure.

What saddens me from a spectator perspective is the huge gulf in class that has opened up, the 90s and 00s were great for unfashionable counties making the breakthrough - Derry, Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh winning their first AIs. Laois and Westmeath grabbing Leinster titles, Sligo and Leitrim winning Connachts, Fermanagh a ball hair from an All Ireland final etc etc.

Those days are gone now and they won't return. The game is not weaker aesthetically, it is weaker competitively and that is the crux of the problem.

I disagree with your last point. Tipp in the semis is rather mad. Roscommon are knocking as were Monaghan. I can see Cavan featuring soon.

Tipp are where they are by doing what?

Beating fairly mediocre Derry and Galway sides. They will be filleted by Mayo in the semi-final with all due respect to them. They are where they are due the anomaly of a poor draw.

Roscommon have been an absolute rabble at Championship level and are as much knocking at the door than a team like Laois and Westmeath are. Monaghan look like a team on the decline. Cavan's new management will be of interest but I think Derry have more tools to do more than them in the coming years if they can get it together.

The fact is there is a hierarchy now, there is Dublin, then a handful of teams who can beat them, then maybe another 2/3 who could beat those sides - after that it's a bit of a free for all.

[ONeill]

Would that not be the same in every era?

[Zulu]

Take off the glasses. Kerry in their pomp were great to watch in the early 80s but much of the rest was boot the thing as far as you can.

The game has changed and spectator expectations need to change with it. It happens with most sports. Hurling is almost exempt because you can score in two moves:  keeper to team mate and over the bar. 6 seconds. In football, that can never happen.

Are Dublin great because they are hammering sides?

Football during the 90's and 2000's was brilliant with many great games. It's nonsense to say spectators need to change expectations, why should we settle for the cowardly, negative football we see now? As Wildweasel74 said, even close games like Mayo Tyrone, Donegal Tyrone, Cork Donegal were all boring to watch. The style of football and safety first attitude of teams is killing the sport.

[ashman]

The football from 1991 to 1995 on so was great to watch .  1990s was great to watch

[ONeill]

Take off the glasses. Kerry in their pomp were great to watch in the early 80s but much of the rest was boot the thing as far as you can.

The game has changed and spectator expectations need to change with it. It happens with most sports. Hurling is almost exempt because you can score in two moves:  keeper to team mate and over the bar. 6 seconds. In football, that can never happen.

Are Dublin great because they are hammering sides?

Football during the 90's and 2000's was brilliant with many great games. It's nonsense to say spectators need to change expectations, why should we settle for the cowardly, negative football we see now? As Wildweasel74 said, even close games like Mayo Tyrone, Donegal Tyrone, Cork Donegal were all boring to watch. The style of football and safety first attitude of teams is killing the sport.

I suppose you're right. They were brilliant. The finals will live long in the memory. Well 2005 will.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Would that not be the same in every era?

No, even when Kerry/Tyrone/Armagh were dominant in the 00s they could be beaten by pretty much any team at any given time. The same is not true today, only 3/4 teams in the country possess the ability to put it up to Dublin and Dublin could stuff them if they hit the right groove. Of these 3/4 teams only few could put it up to them in a meaningful game. Only an anomaly in the draw will ensure a team outside the top 5/6 won't be in the last 4 - that was not always the case.

[ONeill]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

Down beat them, Donegal beat them, Monaghan should have beaten them, Sligo nearly beat them.

The fact was teams didn't go up against Kerry before games with -15 handicaps. They were plenty of teams who could put it up to them, there are 3/4 teams who could put it up to Dublin and they will probably all start the match at odds of 2/1 or greater. As a competitive spectacle, football is fucked.

[Wildweasel74]

 The skills of the modern day player are much higher now  - well i think you find most teams had a detailed freetaker to take frees not goalkeepers, the art of taking frees on the ground has died, many teams had left and right sided free takers, too many players now cant seem to kick pass a ball, take out the big stuff, the top 10% of intercounty men, i think you find 90% of players of 20yrs ago were probably more skillful than there compatriots now adays.

The big change today is all the extra training, weights, diets players have these days. Matt Connor from Offaly the most skillful footballer i seen

A man won footballer of the year a few years ago and he literally cannot solo the ball properly!!

[ONeill]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

Down beat them, Donegal beat them, Monaghan should have beaten them, Sligo nearly beat them.

The fact was teams didn't go up against Kerry before games with -15 handicaps. They were plenty of teams who could put it up to them, there are 3/4 teams who could put it up to Dublin and they will probably all start the match at odds of 2/1 or greater. As a competitive spectacle, football is fucked.

Dublin have never won back to back All-Irelands. Sorry, this recent side. You're being sensationalist. In fact they haven't made back to back finals.

[trileacman]

I think the financial clout of Dublin is the real problem. It's lead to such a distortion of the competition that teams have to go very defensively to give themselves a chance at beating it. You can go man to man and get hammered or keep it tight and produce a less shameful score line.

Even up to 2014 Tyrone were very expansive, think they were the top scoring team in the championship that year up until the semi. With that return and the league final appearance Tyrones fortunes looked rejuvanated but a typical loss to a more calculated and defensive Donegal and Harte realised he was fighting a losing battle. As he had realised 10 years previous with Armagh, if you can't beat them join them.

All the top teams bar Dublin are playing with a heavy concentration on defence. It's a natural reaction to try and limit the scoring power of the mega rich.

It's money, not tactics or mangers, which is distorting the game and lowering the quality.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

Down beat them, Donegal beat them, Monaghan should have beaten them, Sligo nearly beat them.

The fact was teams didn't go up against Kerry before games with -15 handicaps. They were plenty of teams who could put it up to them, there are 3/4 teams who could put it up to Dublin and they will probably all start the match at odds of 2/1 or greater. As a competitive spectacle, football is fucked.

Dublin have never won back to back All-Irelands. Sorry, this recent side. You're being sensationalist. In fact they haven't made back to back finals.

Donegal are the only side to have beaten Dublin since Jim Gavin took over in a game where Donegal, one of the top teams in the country at the time were 10/1 outsiders. I don't think I'm being sensationalist for one second.

[trileacman]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

We were knocked out of Ulster championship and the all Ireland proper by Donegal, Mayo, Derry, Laois, and cork whilst reigning AI champions. Armagh were knocked out in that era by Wexford and Fermanagh and a poor Monaghan side whilst All Ireland champions. Results like those are now largely absent in thIs era

[ONeill]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

Down beat them, Donegal beat them, Monaghan should have beaten them, Sligo nearly beat them.

The fact was teams didn't go up against Kerry before games with -15 handicaps. They were plenty of teams who could put it up to them, there are 3/4 teams who could put it up to Dublin and they will probably all start the match at odds of 2/1 or greater. As a competitive spectacle, football is fucked.

Dublin have never won back to back All-Irelands. Sorry, this recent side. You're being sensationalist. In fact they haven't made back to back finals.

Donegal are the only side to have beaten Dublin since Jim Gavin took over in a game where Donegal, one of the top teams in the country at the time were 10/1 outsiders. I don't think I'm being sensationalist for one second.

Jaysus sure weren't Dublin bate by Cork and Kerry last year as well as Cork, Derry and Donegal the previous year.

Yiz are mental. People live in the present and make judgements based on the last 5 mins.

[Il Bomber Destro]

I'm not sure about that. Only Tyrone or Armagh stopped Kerry. For a while, only Tyrone or Kerry stopped Armagh. Tyrone were the weak link.

Down beat them, Donegal beat them, Monaghan should have beaten them, Sligo nearly beat them.

The fact was teams didn't go up against Kerry before games with -15 handicaps. They were plenty of teams who could put it up to them, there are 3/4 teams who could put it up to Dublin and they will probably all start the match at odds of 2/1 or greater. As a competitive spectacle, football is fucked.

Dublin have never won back to back All-Irelands. Sorry, this recent side. You're being sensationalist. In fact they haven't made back to back finals.

Donegal are the only side to have beaten Dublin since Jim Gavin took over in a game where Donegal, one of the top teams in the country at the time were 10/1 outsiders. I don't think I'm being sensationalist for one second.

Jaysus sure weren't Dublin bate by Cork and Kerry last year as well as Cork, Derry and Donegal the previous year.

Yiz are mental. People live in the present and make judgements based on the last 5 mins.

Why are you bringing league results into this?

They are completely irrelevant when it comes to Championship. The facts say Dublin have only been beaten once under Jim Gavin, by a team who were one of the top teams in the country at the time and started the game as 10/1 outsiders against Dublin. Sadly Dublin are just on a completely different level to everyone else at the minute and on a given day there are only 2/3 teams capable of catching them - that was never the case with any of the Kerry/Tyrone/Armagh teams that were winning All Irelands through the 00s.