Seanie Johnston Switch and outside managers

[Dinny Breen]

It'd be great, and I'd vastly prefer it, if the whole affair had never happened, and if Johnson was playing with Cavan this weekend. But it has happened, and its just a joke that an organisation the size of the GAA has to resort to tactics like this because they've realised they dont actually know what to f**k they're doing.

And all that talk about ethos is bollocks, so please either desist or explain how it tallies with countless other players who are allowed to transfer, and players from stronger hurling counties being actually encouraged to transfer!! It would actually be a good ethos, but the fact of the matter is, it isnt one! The whole things a balls, but this latest episode starts to comfirm suspicions that the whole organisation is a balls.

OK. I'll try and make it simple for you.

The ethos of the GAA is that you play for the club and county where you were born and raised. You are supposed to feel a sense of identity for those with whom you play, and those whom you represent.

In certain circumstances people may change their club, based on their residency, and in doing so may decide to also represent that county or may retain allegience to their initial county.

In all these cases there *must* be an attachment to the club and county they want to represent. Allowing 'Free Movement' is the antithesis of this ethos.

Now, your big bugbear. Hurling. You are absolutely right in that the programme to allow certain hurlers represent other counties *does* fly in the face of this ethos. It absolutely does. However, it was initiated as a programme to help the counties involved, which were certainly in the lower tiers and weaker counties. It was and is a special circumstance designed to spread the gospel of hurling. It is almost the opposite of the Seanie Johnston Saga because in this case a player from a 'weaker' county is joining a 'stronger' one, at least in perception.

So while the hurling is definitely an approved exception, the ethos is still very much as I described.

AZ, firstly I am against SJ.

Now where was this ethos with Thomas Walsh, Niall Browne and more recently Enda Williams or Declan Brennan. Where was this ethos when Karl O'Dwyer played for Kildare or Larry Tompkins for Cork or Declan D'Arcy for Leitrim. Where was this ethos when half the Laois Senior Squad was playing in Dublin? It doesn't exist and is just a romantic notion that is pedaled out in cases like this.

Most of those are wrong Dinny. But is it not better to enforce the rule and ethos rather than turn a blind eye to it? We all give out about this, and yet when it suits lads they are delighted.

Of course it is but how can you talk about ethics in this case when it has been blatantly ignored for years, it is not ethos it's hypocrisy.

Karl O'Dwyer was living and working in Kildare I thought?

Oh you romantic, he moved to Kildare then got a job teaching, played intermediate and then moved to senior club, difference though he was discarded by Kerry and not rated as highly as SJ, Karl though has settled in Kildare can't see Seanie settling down somehow. Social media, the modern media and the internet has changed this kind of game and the GAA are playing catch up when for years it was easier to ignore.

Ethos is Ethos. There are thousands and thousands of players throughout the country. Most of them abide by this ethos, and in fact a lot of them go to huge lengths to stay with their home club. We are talking about a tiny, high profile, minority. They cannot set the ethos, the majority set the ethos.

But surely it has to be absolute else the ethos no longer exists.

[rodney trotter]

The second round is bound to be brought forward. I can't see McGeeney just giving up like that since the CCC decided they would leave the meeting till after the first round this Saturday. It's been going n for over six months and i don't think it will end that easily, he will be a Kildare player yet...

[AZOffaly]

Ethos (play /ˈiːθɒs/ or /ˈiːθoʊs/) is a Greek word meaning "character" that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, nation, or ideology.

Thanks wikipedia

I believe ethos is the correct word. It is the guiding belief that characterises the ideology of the GAA. That some choose to try to go against that ethos does not make it any less of a guiding principle.

But as I've said, if the rules have been met, the rules which are supposed to ensure this ethos is adhered to, then so be it.

[Hardy]

I think 'spirit of the rules' might be a better phrase than 'ethos' to define what people are concerned about. Everybody understands the spirit of the club/county allegiance rule and the reasons for it as articulated by AZOffaly. The great majority of GAA members agree with it.

The hurling exception introduced to improve the standard of the game in weaker counties is in no way comparable to the chicanery indulged in by Johnston, Walsh and the like. It was a duly instituted rule, approved by the membership, to set aside temporarily the allegiance rule for a greater good. To try to use it as a precedent to justify a free-for-all in allowing people to play for whomever they want is ridiculous.

There are degrees of legitimacy apparent in the best-known cases of inter-county transfers, from fully legitimate to dodgy to downright barefaced taking the piss. The GAA has to hold the pass. The letter of the law is really the only weapon it has. The spirit of the law is what the chancers screw around with. It's disappointing to see an iconic figure like McGeeney aligning himself with the chancers and trying to buy success like that is really missing the whole point of what he's supposed to be doing.

[Dinny Breen]

Karl O'Dwyer was living and working in Kildare I thought?

Oh you romantic, he moved to Kildare then got a job teaching, played intermediate and then moved to senior club, difference though he was discarded by Kerry and not rated as highly as SJ, Karl though has settled in Kildare can't see Seanie settling down somehow. Social media, the modern media and the internet has changed this kind of game and the GAA are playing catch up when for years it was easier to ignore.

How long was Karl with Rathangan for? I think Micko owned the garage on the Allen side of the village. He probably still does!!

3 years, in fairness he was living in Kildare Town when joined Towers won a county championship with us in 2003.

[haranguerer]

Ethos is Ethos. There are thousands and thousands of players throughout the country. Most of them abide by this ethos, and in fact a lot of them go to huge lengths to stay with their home club. We are talking about a tiny, high profile, minority. They cannot set the ethos, the majority set the ethos.

Its the GAAs ethos, not the individuals belonging to it. They set it, and they're reposnsible for maintaining it. Clearly, its not that important to them in some cases, so they cant claim it to be in others.

[Donnellys Hollow]

The second round is bound to be brought forward. I can't see McGeeney just giving up like that since the CCC decided they would leave the meeting till after the first round this Saturday. It's been going n for over six months and i don't think it will end that easily, he will be a Kildare player yet...

Clubs would have to agree to that which they won't for the reasons I've outlined above.

[Croí na hÉireann]

The second round is bound to be brought forward. I can't see McGeeney just giving up like that since the CCC decided they would leave the meeting till after the first round this Saturday. It's been going n for over six months and i don't think it will end that easily, he will be a Kildare player yet...

Rodney you plonker, that question has already been asked and DH has answered it here http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=20986.msg1112245#msg1112245

[haranguerer]

Ethos (play /ˈiːθɒs/ or /ˈiːθoʊs/) is a Greek word meaning "character" that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, nation, or ideology.

Thanks wikipedia

I believe ethos is the correct word. It is the guiding belief that characterises the ideology of the GAA. That some choose to try to go against that ethos does not make it any less of a guiding principle.

You seem to be missing the point entirely - it is the GAA themselves who have went against their ethos, or guiding principle, so that does indeed make it less of a guiding principle.

[nrico2006]

I think 'spirit of the rules' might be a better phrase than 'ethos' to define what people are concerned about. Everybody understands the spirit of the club/county allegiance rule and the reasons for it as articulated by AZOffaly. The great majority of GAA members agree with it.

The hurling exception introduced to improve the standard of the game in weaker counties is in no way comparable to the chicanery indulged in by Johnston, Walsh and the like. It was a duly instituted rule, approved by the membership, to set aside temporarily the allegiance rule for a greater good. To try to use it as a precedent to justify a free-for-all in allowing people to play for whomever they want is ridiculous.

There are degrees of legitimacy apparent in the best-known cases of inter-county transfers, from fully legitimate to dodgy to downright barefaced taking the piss. The GAA has to hold the pass. The letter of the law is really the only weapon it has. The spirit of the law is what the chancers screw around with. It's disappointing to see an iconic figure like McGeeney aligning himself with the chancers and trying to buy success like that is really missing the whole point of what he's supposed to be doing.

As mentioned before, there is a former Down hurler playing for Armagh.  He still plays for his club in Down.  This would not be anything to do with the weaker/stronger county situation.  So if this was allowed why should Johnson's move not be?  Simply because of his profile?  I am sure that there are other examples of this happening too.  I know a fella who plays for a club in Tyrone but played for Donegal last year. 

[haranguerer]

The hurling exception introduced to improve the standard of the game in weaker counties is in no way comparable to the chicanery indulged in by Johnston, Walsh and the like. It was a duly instituted rule, approved by the membership, to set aside temporarily the allegiance rule for a greater good. To try to use it as a precedent to justify a free-for-all in allowing people to play for whomever they want is ridiculous.

In relation to the bit in bold - It may be 'morally' superior, but its still just as much a breach of an'ethos' which is my point - the whole ethos talk is absolute bullshit.

With regard to the enlarged bit - whos seeking to do that??

[rodney trotter]

We will see then if it is moved or not then despite what you said.. What other County plays a first round game in the middle of May and the Second Round in August, the 13th i think is the date. That is ridiculous.. giving leeway for the county team is one way but winning one game and waiting 3 months gearing up for the second game doesn't make sense.

[Donnellys Hollow]

We will see then if it is moved or not then despite what you said.. What other County plays a first round game in the middle of May and the Second Round in August, the 13th i think is the date. That is ridiculous.. giving leeway for the county team is one way but winning one game and waiting 3 months gearing up for the second game doesn't make sense.

Welcome to Kildare....

[AZOffaly]

Ethos (play /ˈiːθɒs/ or /ˈiːθoʊs/) is a Greek word meaning "character" that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, nation, or ideology.

Thanks wikipedia

I believe ethos is the correct word. It is the guiding belief that characterises the ideology of the GAA. That some choose to try to go against that ethos does not make it any less of a guiding principle.

You seem to be missing the point entirely - it is the GAA themselves who have went against their ethos, or guiding principle, so that does indeed make it less of a guiding principle.

Not missing the point at all. As I've said, the vast majority, thousands and thousands adhere and subscribe to this ethos. Just because a few high profile cases have been allowed to slip through does not change the way the 'GAA' (which is every member in the country) feel as a whole.

I have said that if the rules have been met, then the transfer should be allowed. If they feel it contravenes the spirit of the law, to use Hardy's phrase, then they need to tighten up the letter of the law.

There's no doubt that those in power can do things to suit themselves at various times, but that does NOT mean that the guiding principle should be abandoned.

[Hashtag]

Explain how Fergal McNulty can play club football for Urney in Tyrone but play county football for Donegal but Seanie Johnston can't play for Cavan Gaels and Kildare?
#menotunderstand