Seanie Johnston Switch and outside managers

[Give and Go]

You're haranging me now.....
Lets clarify something for you apologists making a case for what Clive Woodward called a 'sapper'.
No manager worth his salt in the inter county game would tolerate that behaviour from pannelists, and I'm fairly sure players would have signed up to an agreed code of conduct.
He's another failed intercounty player who thought he was better than he was, that he was something special.
There's a handful of them out there and guess what? None of them play for the top teams. They wouldn't tolerate them.
Remember Mark Vaughan? Gone.
Colm Parkinson? Gone
Gourty, Gallagher.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Complete bollocks. Managers have tolerated, and will continue to tolerate, a lot more than someone playing golf on the morning of the championship. Just out of interest, what game is that alleged to have happened before (cue you trawling for Johnsons worst game in the last 3 years  ? Jack O Connor lived in perpetual fear of Dara O Ses reaction to everything he did. The Gooch and Galvin dont lack self confidence or controversy, and I'm sure there'd be some stories about their behaviour at times, they've done aright. Mugsy McMenamin has certainly been colourful at times, hes still going strong, all of these under the highest regarded managers of their time. Just to point out too, McGourty would be there if he wanted, he was certainly never told he wouldnt be (I assume you're talking about Kevin). If you're talking about what managers will put up with, consider that CJ McGourty is there this year. Rory Gallagher is about 34, not sure he'd still have the legs. Still playing top level club football though, doing aright, and holds the record for scoring most in a championship match. If you mean they've failed because they havent won all-irelands, then is that you making an argumnet for transfers, given that it seems it was in all likelihood that this is becuase of where they were born rather than any reflection on their talent, gallagher may have transferred, but moving to cavan was never gonna give him a celtic cross.

This is all however, digressing. The point isnt that Johnson misbehaved in your view, or anyones view, so he should take his punishment of being dropped. The point is that players should be allowed to play. Whatever your personal opinion of Johnson, and how he carries himself, he is an excellent player, who has got to where he is through talent and hard work. If some manager chooses not to select him, then why should he not be allowed to ply his trade elsewhere? If Johnsons transfer doesnt go through, who wins, apart from bitter hoors who dont want to see him play anywhere else out of spite?

Thats a load of baloney!
A manager drops you and you want to play elsewhere, sure no team would last with that carry on. In effect then, only the first 15 matter; subs all want to play too so they should pack their bags and all move to Kildare!
Stop will ye...

[haranguerer]

You continue to miss the point, it must be deliberate, so theres little point in rising to it. I would point out however, that in the above scenario Kildare would have a panel of (32*10+15) roughly 335 people, which isnt allowed, so its fairly likely these subs would all keep moving until they were back where they started and no harm whatsoever would be done.

[AZOffaly]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/goalkeeper-supple-opts-out-of-dublin-squad-3008851.html

Aye aye

Are you thinking he'd prefer the short grass?

[heffo]

http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/goalkeeper-supple-opts-out-of-dublin-squad-3008851.html

Aye aye

Are you thinking he'd prefer the short grass?

An aul rental agreement for an apt in Leixlip mightn't be the most unlikely thing he could sign this year.

[LeoMc]

You're haranging me now.....
Lets clarify something for you apologists making a case for what Clive Woodward called a 'sapper'.
No manager worth his salt in the inter county game would tolerate that behaviour from pannelists, and I'm fairly sure players would have signed up to an agreed code of conduct.
He's another failed intercounty player who thought he was better than he was, that he was something special.
There's a handful of them out there and guess what? None of them play for the top teams. They wouldn't tolerate them.
Remember Mark Vaughan? Gone.
Colm Parkinson? Gone
Gourty, Gallagher.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Complete bollocks. Managers have tolerated, and will continue to tolerate, a lot more than someone playing golf on the morning of the championship. Just out of interest, what game is that alleged to have happened before (cue you trawling for Johnsons worst game in the last 3 years  ? Jack O Connor lived in perpetual fear of Dara O Ses reaction to everything he did. The Gooch and Galvin dont lack self confidence or controversy, and I'm sure there'd be some stories about their behaviour at times, they've done aright. Mugsy McMenamin has certainly been colourful at times, hes still going strong, all of these under the highest regarded managers of their time. Just to point out too, McGourty would be there if he wanted, he was certainly never told he wouldnt be (I assume you're talking about Kevin). If you're talking about what managers will put up with, consider that CJ McGourty is there this year. Rory Gallagher is about 34, not sure he'd still have the legs. Still playing top level club football though, doing aright, and holds the record for scoring most in a championship match. If you mean they've failed because they havent won all-irelands, then is that you making an argumnet for transfers, given that it seems it was in all likelihood that this is becuase of where they were born rather than any reflection on their talent, gallagher may have transferred, but moving to cavan was never gonna give him a celtic cross.

This is all however, digressing. The point isnt that Johnson misbehaved in your view, or anyones view, so he should take his punishment of being dropped. The point is that players should be allowed to play. Whatever your personal opinion of Johnson, and how he carries himself, he is an excellent player, who has got to where he is through talent and hard work. If some manager chooses not to select him, then why should he not be allowed to ply his trade elsewhere? If Johnsons transfer doesnt go through, who wins, apart from bitter hoors who dont want to see him play anywhere else out of spite?

An intresting Hybrid!

Mulligan has been shown the bench a few times (2005 up until the AIQF he wasn't in the picture) He knuckled down and fought his way back in. He didn't look for an apartment in Bundoran.

[Jinxy]

Whats that about johnsons move being solely about glory-hunting? I think the fact that he was told he wouldnt be playing for Cavan this year had a small part in it at least, do you not?

The last time I looked Seanie Johnston wasn't the manager of Cavan. If Val Andrews doesn't want to pick him, that's his decision. Nobody owes any player a game at inter-county level.

See 'solely'. If he had been called up for cavan, would he be now transferrign to Kildare?



If nobody owes any player a game at inter co level, then similarly no player owes anyone anything at inter co level. Its an amateur sport ffs.

[/b]

Taking that to it's logical conclusion, no rules should apply. And so a player can decide to switch allegiances during a competition; 'I was taken off today, feck them, I want to play with the winners in the next round'....
Grow up. He's illegal. End of story.

Explain that one    Also, what has 'growing up' got to do with it?

Simple.
There are clear rules about eligibility. You either are legal to play or not.
Growing up means to accept the rules you play under and not throw a hizzy it.
Any player who plays golf the day of an Ulster Championship game or comes into a dressing room and demands a few new young players get out of HIS place doesn't deserve to represent his county.
Too many of these prima donnas coming into the game with their fan clubs in tow.

It's a good thing there's no golf clubs in Straffan.

[haranguerer]

An intresting Hybrid!
Mulligan has been shown the bench a few times (2005 up until the AIQF he wasn't in the picture) He knuckled down and fought his way back in. He didn't look for an apartment in Bundoran.

My bad!  Christ, can you imagine that hoor on a night out!!!

Anyway, aye, he was shown the bench for bad form (and his all star that year was a joke). Last year he was very bad any time I saw him, was good to see him playing well in mck cup. THeres a massive difference however to being given the bench or roaded for bad form, and being told he wasnt going to play for Tyrone this year despite being in good form, and an automatic choice otherwise. This isnt an issue about seanie not wanting to knuckle down and get back on the panel - that was an option not open to him

[Give and Go]

Nonsense.
He'd be in there if he had something to offer.
Talent on its own is never enough.
Obviously a bad apple in the barrell and maybe Val didnt want to contaminate the rest of them.
Don't see any outcry from the panel...

[muppet]

You're haranging me now.....
Lets clarify something for you apologists making a case for what Clive Woodward called a 'sapper'.
No manager worth his salt in the inter county game would tolerate that behaviour from pannelists, and I'm fairly sure players would have signed up to an agreed code of conduct.
He's another failed intercounty player who thought he was better than he was, that he was something special.
There's a handful of them out there and guess what? None of them play for the top teams. They wouldn't tolerate them.
Remember Mark Vaughan? Gone.
Colm Parkinson? Gone
Gourty, Gallagher.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Complete bollocks. Managers have tolerated, and will continue to tolerate, a lot more than someone playing golf on the morning of the championship. Just out of interest, what game is that alleged to have happened before (cue you trawling for Johnsons worst game in the last 3 years  ? Jack O Connor lived in perpetual fear of Dara O Ses reaction to everything he did. The Gooch and Galvin dont lack self confidence or controversy, and I'm sure there'd be some stories about their behaviour at times, they've done aright. Mugsy McMenamin has certainly been colourful at times, hes still going strong, all of these under the highest regarded managers of their time. Just to point out too, McGourty would be there if he wanted, he was certainly never told he wouldnt be (I assume you're talking about Kevin). If you're talking about what managers will put up with, consider that CJ McGourty is there this year. Rory Gallagher is about 34, not sure he'd still have the legs. Still playing top level club football though, doing aright, and holds the record for scoring most in a championship match. If you mean they've failed because they havent won all-irelands, then is that you making an argumnet for transfers, given that it seems it was in all likelihood that this is becuase of where they were born rather than any reflection on their talent, gallagher may have transferred, but moving to cavan was never gonna give him a celtic cross.

This is all however, digressing. The point isnt that Johnson misbehaved in your view, or anyones view, so he should take his punishment of being dropped. The point is that players should be allowed to play. Whatever your personal opinion of Johnson, and how he carries himself, he is an excellent player, who has got to where he is through talent and hard work. If some manager chooses not to select him, then why should he not be allowed to ply his trade elsewhere? If Johnsons transfer doesnt go through, who wins, apart from bitter hoors who dont want to see him play anywhere else out of spite?

An intresting Hybrid!

Mulligan has been shown the bench a few times (2005 up until the AIQF he wasn't in the picture) He knuckled down and fought his way back in. He didn't look for an apartment in Bundoran.

That's because he doesn't like playing in the full back line.

Now Belmullet on the other hand..........

[muppet]

It's a good thing there's no golf clubs in Straffan.

And we have the first suggestion for the 2012 GaaBoard Golf Classic.

I wonder will Seanie come again?

[imtommygunn]

You're haranging me now.....
Lets clarify something for you apologists making a case for what Clive Woodward called a 'sapper'.
No manager worth his salt in the inter county game would tolerate that behaviour from pannelists, and I'm fairly sure players would have signed up to an agreed code of conduct.
He's another failed intercounty player who thought he was better than he was, that he was something special.
There's a handful of them out there and guess what? None of them play for the top teams. They wouldn't tolerate them.
Remember Mark Vaughan? Gone.
Colm Parkinson? Gone
Gourty, Gallagher.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Complete bollocks. Managers have tolerated, and will continue to tolerate, a lot more than someone playing golf on the morning of the championship. Just out of interest, what game is that alleged to have happened before (cue you trawling for Johnsons worst game in the last 3 years  ? Jack O Connor lived in perpetual fear of Dara O Ses reaction to everything he did. The Gooch and Galvin dont lack self confidence or controversy, and I'm sure there'd be some stories about their behaviour at times, they've done aright. Mugsy McMenamin has certainly been colourful at times, hes still going strong, all of these under the highest regarded managers of their time. Just to point out too, McGourty would be there if he wanted, he was certainly never told he wouldnt be (I assume you're talking about Kevin). If you're talking about what managers will put up with, consider that CJ McGourty is there this year. Rory Gallagher is about 34, not sure he'd still have the legs. Still playing top level club football though, doing aright, and holds the record for scoring most in a championship match. If you mean they've failed because they havent won all-irelands, then is that you making an argumnet for transfers, given that it seems it was in all likelihood that this is becuase of where they were born rather than any reflection on their talent, gallagher may have transferred, but moving to cavan was never gonna give him a celtic cross.

This is all however, digressing. The point isnt that Johnson misbehaved in your view, or anyones view, so he should take his punishment of being dropped. The point is that players should be allowed to play. Whatever your personal opinion of Johnson, and how he carries himself, he is an excellent player, who has got to where he is through talent and hard work. If some manager chooses not to select him, then why should he not be allowed to ply his trade elsewhere? If Johnsons transfer doesnt go through, who wins, apart from bitter hoors who dont want to see him play anywhere else out of spite?

A few questions on the above post:
- How do you know he works hard? Undoubtedly he has talent but whether he works hard or not I don't know.
- Was the door completely closed on him for the whole season? If not then he could have worked hard to get back.

If a player isn't getting on and just moves it's a dangerous precedent to set. We're no playing soccer her and that is one of the great things about our game. Who we play for is part of our identity. What part of this guy's identity stems from Kildare?

(On the playing golf who really knows if it's true or not. Some rumours in internet land get listened to as gospel when they're far from true so I'd take that with a pinch of salt.)

[mylestheslasher]

You're haranging me now.....
Lets clarify something for you apologists making a case for what Clive Woodward called a 'sapper'.
No manager worth his salt in the inter county game would tolerate that behaviour from pannelists, and I'm fairly sure players would have signed up to an agreed code of conduct.
He's another failed intercounty player who thought he was better than he was, that he was something special.
There's a handful of them out there and guess what? None of them play for the top teams. They wouldn't tolerate them.
Remember Mark Vaughan? Gone.
Colm Parkinson? Gone
Gourty, Gallagher.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Complete bollocks. Managers have tolerated, and will continue to tolerate, a lot more than someone playing golf on the morning of the championship. Just out of interest, what game is that alleged to have happened before (cue you trawling for Johnsons worst game in the last 3 years  ? Jack O Connor lived in perpetual fear of Dara O Ses reaction to everything he did. The Gooch and Galvin dont lack self confidence or controversy, and I'm sure there'd be some stories about their behaviour at times, they've done aright. Mugsy McMenamin has certainly been colourful at times, hes still going strong, all of these under the highest regarded managers of their time. Just to point out too, McGourty would be there if he wanted, he was certainly never told he wouldnt be (I assume you're talking about Kevin). If you're talking about what managers will put up with, consider that CJ McGourty is there this year. Rory Gallagher is about 34, not sure he'd still have the legs. Still playing top level club football though, doing aright, and holds the record for scoring most in a championship match. If you mean they've failed because they havent won all-irelands, then is that you making an argumnet for transfers, given that it seems it was in all likelihood that this is becuase of where they were born rather than any reflection on their talent, gallagher may have transferred, but moving to cavan was never gonna give him a celtic cross.

This is all however, digressing. The point isnt that Johnson misbehaved in your view, or anyones view, so he should take his punishment of being dropped. The point is that players should be allowed to play. Whatever your personal opinion of Johnson, and how he carries himself, he is an excellent player, who has got to where he is through talent and hard work. If some manager chooses not to select him, then why should he not be allowed to ply his trade elsewhere? If Johnsons transfer doesnt go through, who wins, apart from bitter hoors who dont want to see him play anywhere else out of spite?

A few questions on the above post:
- How do you know he works hard? Undoubtedly he has talent but whether he works hard or not I don't know.
- Was the door completely closed on him for the whole season? If not then he could have worked hard to get back.

If a player isn't getting on and just moves it's a dangerous precedent to set. We're no playing soccer her and that is one of the great things about our game. Who we play for is part of our identity. What part of this guy's identity stems from Kildare?

(On the playing golf who really knows if it's true or not. Some rumours in internet land get listened to as gospel when they're far from true so I'd take that with a pinch of salt.)

Did Johnston work hard? - Not from what I've heard and from what I've seen on the pitch, if the ball coming in isn't perfect he prefers bitch and moan at his own players rather than fight harder for it.

Was the door completely closed? - It is becoming clear that it wasn't and that he was not told he wouldn't play with Cavan this year. It is he who has pretty much made sure he won't play for Cavan again this year or any year.

Johnston has no links to Kildare. However, he has links to McGeeney! This could have been in the making long before any call was made. I remember reading last year a pretty pathetic interview he gave, bemoaning how hard it was for him to watch his friends playing in Croke Park week in and week out while he wasn't. Seanie likes giving interviews to the media and feeling sorry for himself.

Also, with regards to the "10 second" phone call. Andrews had called some other players before Johnston to tell them they would not be in the panel. He asked one of these players for Johnstons number as he didn't have it (it has been said Johnston changed his number and didn't pass it to Andrews but I don't know if that is true or not). Before he got to call Johnston, this lad had him contacted to tell him the craic. Finally, the call lasted "10 seconds" because Johnston hung up on Andrews.

Finally, how are the players taking it, have a look at this brief interview with James Reilly -

http://hoganstand.com/cavan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=161287

quote "I'm back at full tilt now and training is going fierce well at the moment. Val is an easy going sort of man, a bit like myself, he's been around the block and he knows what's what"

I have yet to hear a current player come out and declare things are bad without Johnston. I have yet to hear any of the other players dropped come out in the media whinging or trying to transfer clubs.

As for the fans, have a look at the poll results here

http://hoganstand.com/cavan/PollForm.aspx

Andrews is not being blamed by the vast majority, while the vast majority believe Johnston should not be transferring.

In any case, this is it for me on this issue. A team of Cavan men take the field on Sunday in the toughest start possible in Div 3. I wish them the best of luck. All true Cavan fans just want a team on the field that will give everything they have got for our proud GAA county. Once they do that the supporters will come back and we will start becoming a force again in time.

[DuffleKing]

I'm not sure at all about both sides of this debate but I do know one thing - to use a hoganstand poll as a basis of understand an entire county's mindset is not credible

[mylestheslasher]

I'm not sure at all about both sides of this debate but I do know one thing - to use a hoganstand poll as a basis of understand an entire county's mindset is not credible

I don't have the means to get red sea to do a poll so Hoganstand will have to do.

[anglocelt39]

I'm not sure at all about both sides of this debate but I do know one thing - to use a hoganstand poll as a basis of understand an entire county's mindset is not credible

I don't have the means to get red sea to do a poll so Hoganstand will have to go.

Very reasonable comment there Duffleking, Myles is more than happy to slate the posters and administrators on HS when it suits him. By the way Myles, as the one poster I've ever seen actually get gate publicly from the Mods on Hoganstand (quite an achievement) did that exclude you from voting on polls on that site?