Seanie Johnston Switch and outside managers

[heffo]

If it was an argument with our esteemed journo Mr McKenna i think it was made abundantly clear what is going on re Johnston and his new pal Geezer & the debt ridden Kildare county board - a debt principally caused it has to be said by Geezer & his merry band of expensive mercenaries!

Not the case at all. Kildare's debt is mainly as a result of the Hawkfield development. The senior footballers do a lot of their own fundraising. They each raised €3k last year and fitted out their own purpose built gym at the K Club themselves. A large proportion of the money to finance the senior team comes from Club Kildare, not the CB. No doubt team expenses have to be cut down (as they do in most counties) but Kildare's debt is at a manageable level for the time being. Whilst not excusing it, it pales into comparison to several other counties. I think Kildare have received more publicity because they are actively trying to clear their debt, however successful that will be.

As for Johnston, very few in Kildare want him. Personally think it is a big error of judgement from our senior management.

Funny enough the original Dinny Breen won 4 Dublin senior county medals with the Garda club in 1929, 1933, 1934 and 1935. Even though he was a Westmeath footballer at the time he was invited to play for Dublin. An invitation he declined but alas there was no media sensationalism and sports did not exist in the popular culture sense so this request from Dublin stirred no controversy and with no social media to try and manipulate our sense of tribal emotion no one actually cared. Dinny was flattered to be asked but he was a Westmeath man. Every county is littered with similar stories, some played for their new adoptive county some didn't and the world moved on and nobody cared.

Would a more appropriate comparison not be a player who played with Westmeath, played club football in Dublin and was asked by say Limerick to sign a form saying he was a 'resident' in Limerick so he could play for them?

[shezam]

The Cavan County Board has issued the following statement:
"Re: Inter-county Transfer Request
"During the January meeting of Cavan county board's management committee, the issue of an inter-county transfer request was discussed. The committee have decided that they will be unable to assist this particular process as they believe there is a doubt about compliance with rial 6.9 T.O. 2011."

[Hound]

Spot on Dinny - most of those against it havent even any consistency in their own arguments. Its an amateur sport, these lads are amateur players who do this in their spare time. The holier than thou attitude from dublin in particular is a joke!

Personally I've no problem with what Seanie Johnston is doing. If he wants to leave his club, as a free amateur player he's entitled to do it. If he wants to leave Cavan, then fine also.

Its Kildare's actions that I'd question.

Funny that Dinny has two alternative arguments for saying what Kildare is doing is fine:
1. Dublin did it in the 30s and 40s, so its ok for Kildare to do it now.
2. The game is evolving so its ok for Kildare to pick lads who have no connection with the county and don't even work in the county.

I don't blame McGeeney either. He's under huge pressure to be successful. Its the Kildare County Board, and therefore Kildare clubs, and therefore every member of Kildare GAA clubs who should be ashamed of themselves for offering incentives to play for the county.

Imagine if other top counties copied the Kildare model. You'd soon enough have all the top players playing for the best 8 or so counties

[Dinny Breen]

hold your horses chief I am not stating what Kildare is doing is right I am mocking the hyperbolic reaction in social media circles. I used what Dublin did in the 30s to emphasise that point not to excuse Kildare.  To bury your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge  that the GAA will have to change is the other point evolution is happening how the Gaa controls that evolution is what's important.

I do find it ironic that you talk about incentives in this matter, what are your opinions on the Dublin club scene maybe you should throw your online energy into that disease, an issue more worthy and a bigger problem than the SJ will he or won't he saga.

[heffo]

I do find it ironic that you talk about incentives in this matter, what are your opinions on the Dublin club scene maybe you should throw your online energy into that disease, an issue more worthy and a bigger problem than the SJ will he or won't he saga.

I think every Dublin poster here has been very consistent about incentives offered to outside players to play for Dublin clubs - it's a scourge and needs to be stopped. John Costello's suggestion in his annual report was a very practical first step.

[mylestheslasher]

The Cavan County Board has issued the following statement:
"Re: Inter-county Transfer Request
"During the January meeting of Cavan county board's management committee, the issue of an inter-county transfer request was discussed. The committee have decided that they will be unable to assist this particular process as they believe there is a doubt about compliance with rial 6.9 T.O. 2011."

Well done to Cavan County Board. At least someone is looking out for the ethos of the GAA. Hopefully Cavan Gaels will do the right thing and say the same.

[shezam]

The Cavan County Board has issued the following statement:
"Re: Inter-county Transfer Request
"During the January meeting of Cavan county board's management committee, the issue of an inter-county transfer request was discussed. The committee have decided that they will be unable to assist this particular process as they believe there is a doubt about compliance with rial 6.9 T.O. 2011."

Well done to Cavan County Board. At least someone is looking out for the ethos of the GAA. Hopefully Cavan Gaels will do the right thing and say the same.

The Breffni County have cited Rule 6.9 of the GAA's official guide which relates to the 'permanent residence' of the player seeking the transfer, with Cavan questioning whether Johnston is in fact living in Kildare.

[heffo]

The Cavan County Board has issued the following statement:
"Re: Inter-county Transfer Request
"During the January meeting of Cavan county board's management committee, the issue of an inter-county transfer request was discussed. The committee have decided that they will be unable to assist this particular process as they believe there is a doubt about compliance with rial 6.9 T.O. 2011."

Well done to Cavan County Board. At least someone is looking out for the ethos of the GAA. Hopefully Cavan Gaels will do the right thing and say the same.

The Breffni County have cited Rule 6.9 of the GAA's official guide which relates to the 'permanent residence' of the player seeking the transfer, with Cavan questioning whether Johnston is in fact living in Kildare.

Get away, you mean they don't believe he upped sticks for no apparent reason and commutes to Cavan town each day?

[Hound]

hold your horses chief I am not stating what Kildare is doing is right I am mocking the hyperbolic reaction in social media circles. I used what Dublin did in the 30s to emphasise that point not to excuse Kildare.  To bury your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge  that the GAA will have to change is the other point evolution is happening how the Gaa controls that evolution is what's important.

I do find it ironic that you talk about incentives in this matter, what are your opinions on the Dublin club scene maybe you should throw your online energy into that disease, an issue more worthy and a bigger problem than the SJ will he or won't he saga.

Its ironic that you find it ironic, given your lack of condemnation for Kildare's incentives!!

Parnells are pretty much despised across Dublin club football because of the way they are attracting mercenaries. Parnells havent broken any rules, but like Kildare GAA, seem to be morally corrupt. DCB are trying to figure out if they can do anything and have flown the proverbial kite by making the seemingly outlandish suggestion of stopping all such players playing for their native counties if they wish to come to Dublin (by making them declare for Dublin, but never picking them for Dublin) - but that was dealt with on another thread.

If there was a free transfer system like you suggest we should evolve to, Dublin would undoubtedly benefit the most, because I'm sure we could outdo even Kildare regarding the incentives we could offer. Thankfully we have no interest in going down that road.

And I don't think many hold the view that you do that "The GAA will have to change" just to allow Kildare have free reign.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Spot on Dinny - most of those against it havent even any consistency in their own arguments. Its an amateur sport, these lads are amateur players who do this in their spare time. The holier than thou attitude from dublin in particular is a joke!

Personally I've no problem with what Seanie Johnston is doing. If he wants to leave his club, as a free amateur player he's entitled to do it. If he wants to leave Cavan, then fine also.

Its Kildare's actions that I'd question.

Funny that Dinny has two alternative arguments for saying what Kildare is doing is fine:
1. Dublin did it in the 30s and 40s, so its ok for Kildare to do it now.
2. The game is evolving so its ok for Kildare to pick lads who have no connection with the county and don't even work in the county.

I don't blame McGeeney either. He's under huge pressure to be successful. Its the Kildare County Board, and therefore Kildare clubs, and therefore every member of Kildare GAA clubs who should be ashamed of themselves for offering incentives to play for the county.

Imagine if other top counties copied the Kildare model. You'd soon enough have all the top players playing for the best 8 or so counties

The vast majority of Kildare GAA people that I have spoken too are staunchly against this lad playing for Kildare. If he was living and working in Kildare then there's no problem if he wants to give it a go - Brian Murphy, Brian Lacey and Karl O'Dwyer did it in the 90s and all three contributed greatly to Kildare GAA after their respective inter-county retirements, likewise Ryan O'Dwyer and Maurice O'Brien with the Dublin hurlers. However, that doesn't appear to be the case here.

It's the fact that he's going to play for St Kevins that has me very uneasy about the whole thing. He supposedly wanted to play for Celbridge (same parish as Straffan where we're led to believe Johnston has an address....) but they rightly wanted to promote their own young talent rather than go down this road. Niall Carew, the one Kildare native on the management team, is a St Kevins man so you can draw your own conclusions from that. This whole thing appears to have been pushed by the senior management and I can't imagine that there are many on the Kildare panel that are too happy with all this. It doesn't exactly show a lot of faith in our current forwards who have got us close enough to the top in recent seasons.

[Dinny Breen]

Its ironic that you find it ironic, given your lack of condemnation for Kildare's incentives!!

If you can show me evidence of these incentives of course I will condemn them, not interested in conjecture just facts.

If there was a free transfer system like you suggest we should evolve to, Dublin would undoubtedly benefit the most, because I'm sure we could outdo even Kildare regarding the incentives we could offer. Thankfully we have no interest in going down that road.

Of course Dublin wouldn't be, they already hold all the competitive advantages, have the largest population, their club football championship is the highest standard in the country (aided by outside players), the have paid coaches in nearly all their clubs, they disproportionally have the highest sports capital grants and they receive the most in corporate sponsorship, not to mention they play all their games in Croke Park. 

And I don't think many hold the view that you do that "The GAA will have to change" just to allow Kildare have free reign.

That's not what I am saying, the SJ saga and the payment of incentives in Dublin are challenges to the GAA, how the GAA deal with these things will lead to evolution, that is the nature of sport and evolution can't be held back. Rule 21 and 42, minimum wage in soccer, The Bosman, rugby turning professional, the Whip Ban in horse racing etc etc

And just to reiterate I am against SJ joining Kildare in this matter, just in case anyone is thinking that I am try to condone it whereas I am just fascinated by the hyperbolic reaction from the Dublin posters who should really be interested bystanders.

In fact the vitriol now aimed at Kildare GAA from Dublin forum posters particular those that reside on Reservoir Dubs is almost worthy of a study in itself. Social Media the destructive and negative views of a few, can they create and generate opinion in the Mass?

[Dinny Breen]

Spot on Dinny - most of those against it havent even any consistency in their own arguments. Its an amateur sport, these lads are amateur players who do this in their spare time. The holier than thou attitude from dublin in particular is a joke!

Personally I've no problem with what Seanie Johnston is doing. If he wants to leave his club, as a free amateur player he's entitled to do it. If he wants to leave Cavan, then fine also.

Its Kildare's actions that I'd question.

Funny that Dinny has two alternative arguments for saying what Kildare is doing is fine:
1. Dublin did it in the 30s and 40s, so its ok for Kildare to do it now.
2. The game is evolving so its ok for Kildare to pick lads who have no connection with the county and don't even work in the county.

I don't blame McGeeney either. He's under huge pressure to be successful. Its the Kildare County Board, and therefore Kildare clubs, and therefore every member of Kildare GAA clubs who should be ashamed of themselves for offering incentives to play for the county.

Imagine if other top counties copied the Kildare model. You'd soon enough have all the top players playing for the best 8 or so counties

The vast majority of Kildare GAA people that I have spoken too are staunchly against this lad playing for Kildare. If he was living and working in Kildare then there's no problem if he wants to give it a go - Brian Murphy, Brian Lacey and Karl O'Dwyer did it in the 90s and all three contributed greatly to Kildare GAA after their respective inter-county retirements, likewise Ryan O'Dwyer and Maurice O'Brien with the Dublin hurlers. However, that doesn't appear to be the case here.

It's the fact that he's going to play for St Kevins that has me very uneasy about the whole thing. He supposedly wanted to play for Celbridge (same parish as Straffan where we're led to believe Johnston has an address....) but they rightly wanted to promote their own young talent rather than go down this road. Niall Carew, the one Kildare native on the management team, is a St Kevins man so you can draw your own conclusions from that. This whole thing appears to have been pushed by the senior management and I can't imagine that there are many on the Kildare panel that are too happy with all this. It doesn't exactly show a lot of faith in our current forwards who have got us close enough to the top in recent seasons.

+1

Just to reiterate this all been handled badly and reflects badly on Kildare GAA.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Its ironic that you find it ironic, given your lack of condemnation for Kildare's incentives!!

If you can show me evidence of these incentives of course I will condemn them, not interested in conjecture just facts.

If there was a free transfer system like you suggest we should evolve to, Dublin would undoubtedly benefit the most, because I'm sure we could outdo even Kildare regarding the incentives we could offer. Thankfully we have no interest in going down that road.

Of course Dublin wouldn't be, they already hold all the competitive advantages, have the largest population, their club football championship is the highest standard in the country (aided by outside players), the have paid coaches in nearly all their clubs, they disproportionally have the highest sports capital grants and they receive the most in corporate sponsorship, not to mention they play all their games in Croke Park. 

And I don't think many hold the view that you do that "The GAA will have to change" just to allow Kildare have free reign.

That's not what I am saying, the SJ saga and the payment of incentives in Dublin are challenges to the GAA, how the GAA deal with these things will lead to evolution, that is the nature of sport and evolution can't be held back. Rule 21 and 42, minimum wage in soccer, The Bosman, rugby turning professional, the Whip Ban in horse racing etc etc

And just to reiterate I am against SJ joining Kildare in this matter, just in case anyone is thinking that I am try to condone it whereas I am just fascinated by the hyperbolic reaction from the Dublin posters who should really be interested bystanders.

In fact the vitriol now aimed at Kildare GAA from Dublin forum posters particular those that reside on Reservoir Dubs is almost worthy of a study in itself. Social Media the destructive and negative views of a few, can they create and generate opinion in the Mass?

Really don't understand that one myself. Even during the mid 90s when the Dublin/Kildare rivalry on the field was quite fierce, I never had a bad experience with Dublin supporters. Maybe with so many of them living in Kildare these days the dynamics of the rivalry have changed somewhat?

I suppose it would be worse if they weren't talking about us!

[heffo]

Its ironic that you find it ironic, given your lack of condemnation for Kildare's incentives!!

If you can show me evidence of these incentives of course I will condemn them, not interested in conjecture just facts.

If there was a free transfer system like you suggest we should evolve to, Dublin would undoubtedly benefit the most, because I'm sure we could outdo even Kildare regarding the incentives we could offer. Thankfully we have no interest in going down that road.

Of course Dublin wouldn't be, they already hold all the competitive advantages, have the largest population, their club football championship is the highest standard in the country (aided by outside players), the have paid coaches in nearly all their clubs, they disproportionally have the highest sports capital grants and they receive the most in corporate sponsorship, not to mention they play all their games in Croke Park. 

And I don't think many hold the view that you do that "The GAA will have to change" just to allow Kildare have free reign.

That's not what I am saying, the SJ saga and the payment of incentives in Dublin are challenges to the GAA, how the GAA deal with these things will lead to evolution, that is the nature of sport and evolution can't be held back. Rule 21 and 42, minimum wage in soccer, The Bosman, rugby turning professional, the Whip Ban in horse racing etc etc

And just to reiterate I am against SJ joining Kildare in this matter, just in case anyone is thinking that I am try to condone it whereas I am just fascinated by the hyperbolic reaction from the Dublin posters who should really be interested bystanders.

In fact the vitriol now aimed at Kildare GAA from Dublin forum posters particular those that reside on Reservoir Dubs is almost worthy of a study in itself. Social Media the destructive and negative views of a few, can they create and generate opinion in the Mass?

Really don't understand that one myself. Even during the mid 90s when the Dublin/Kildare rivalry on the field was quite fierce, I never had a bad experience with Dublin supporters. Maybe with so many of them living in Kildare these days the dynamics of the rivalry have changed somewhat?

I suppose it would be worse if they weren't talking about us!

Can't understand that either - wouldn't see any reason for it myself..

[kildare2012]

DINNY BREEn you never replied to my comment a few pages back about the other players!! And Donnellys Hollow what is wrong with him goig to Kevins? He had to go somewhere and thats bull about Celbridge,  loads of clubs were quoted Straffan, Celbridge, Clane,Kevins even Nurney and Naas. And i said to a Kevins lads about your quote of the turf cutting ban which was funny !! He replied saying that there is no ban on the sheep shagging around the curragh in donnellys hollow haha you probably do be up there ha.