China Coronavirus

Started by lurganblue, January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

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JoG2

Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

I realise that - so that then begs the question if we were unable to staff it why 'build' it.

If it is due to staff self isolating then can better testing assist with this - i.e. not have staff self isolating as they have been deemed a close contact but instead test.

We appear to be an attractive option for overseas staff previously in the nursing profession, are those countries now retaining those staff?

What is being done to repatriate staff as highlighted by JC?

Are there tasks carried out by nurses currently that could be carried out by auxiliary staff in the short term to reduced the ratio of nurses per ward - can doctors/consultants be tasked with nursing roles in certain circumstances due to staff levels?

IMHO sweet fuk all has been done for the past 9 months except fire fighting, we had a lull in the Summer months where we should have been looking at contingency planning for staff levels, we didn't. We are where we are but my worry is that if we can reduce the levels to a more palatable level again that we will spend that period back slapping and eating out to help out while we await a further surge ad nauseum until a vaccine is rolled out.

Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 11:12:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

Student nurses from here who complete their training are offered better paid jobs over in London, Australia and the likes than they are here at home.
Does that make sense to anyone?

Why go to the bother of financing their training and then not offer competitive salaries to ensure that they stay here. Am I missing something?

Because nobody cared until about 8 months ago when they started to question their own mortality in the face of morning, noon and night Covid and why we never backed the NHS.

The NHS for years has been underfunded, cut upon and generally run on fumes. Then all of a sudden Covid came along, probably to be honest wasn't even all that bad...but completely showed it up for what had happened under many, many previous governments. It wasn't Boris' fault, he just happened to be the unlucky one really. Those cuts were also reflected in the pay schemes.

When they talk of hospitals being overrun, sure, Covid is a problem, no doubt but hospitals here and all over the UK were overrun most winters anyway because they were run on a shoe string. Look, nobody could have predicted Covid - but this will happen again, there is no doubt whatsoever. We, hopefully will be better prepared - the world was caught with the pants down and then you just look at the new defence package the UK is splashing out on, there is plenty of money......just none of it was deemed priority at any stage to the health services.

What do you mean it wasn't Boris' fault? He was a member of the Tory party during their austerity campaign and cut the living daylights out of the NHS budget as well as social services and all that.

It's very much his fault and the attempts of the current Tory Gov to disassociate itself from their previous governments should not go unchallenged.

He is in office when it happened, so yes of course there is blame - certainly in his handling. But I would say the actual blame stretches way back to even as far as Thatcher. The NHS has not been fit for purpose in decades. It's always been run on 'the cheap'. I'm not particularly fond of Boris Johnson but he just happened to be the unlucky PM when the music stopped so to speak.




imtommygunn

I would never call him unlucky. He's stealing a living and coining it in from private exploits in the background. He deserves any flak that comes his way and doesn't get remotely near enough. He's the worst British PM ever.

lfdown2


Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

imtommygunn

79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Ed Ricketts

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Likely to be a reporting delay. And numbers are always much lower on Mondays. Wouldn't read too much into these numbers.
Doc would listen to any kind of nonsense and change it for you to a kind of wisdom.

imtommygunn

Even if they go up by 100% there'll still incredibly low. Definitely things are trending in the right direction. Until the spread from people rushing round this week because everything is getting locked down again!!

JoG2

Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 01:53:01 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

But we're not.

Surge beds are in place so no one is turned away (hopefully)

Other acute procedures are now being carried out alongside Covid treatment

Re staff, the kitchen sink has been thrown at this shortage. The NHS was short staffed before Covid, with staff isolating etc

You're opinion is not based on fact

lfdown2

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 02:53:42 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 01:53:01 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

But we're not.

Surge beds are in place so no one is turned away (hopefully)

Other acute procedures are now being carried out alongside Covid treatment

Re staff, the kitchen sink has been thrown at this shortage. The NHS was short staffed before Covid, with staff isolating etc

You're opinion is not based on fact

So why then 10 days ago is the health minister saying "no hospital will turn away a Covid-19 patient but people with other serious illness may have to wait for treatment." (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54934000)

What is the kitchen sink? What has been done and what results have been achieved?

What you are telling me does not appear to align with the message that we had to enter a further lockdown this weekend to protect our health service. Numbers were falling significantly but we are told it wasn't enough to stop our hospitals being overrun - now if the equipment is there as it appears to be it must be a staffing issue.

I will freely admit I do not have all the facts however I would also assert that all the facts are not available to the public.

To be clear I do not disagree with the revised regulations which come in on Friday, in the most part but I would be extremely interested in the medium/long term plan and whether it is just simply to wait on the vaccine roll out - if so that's particularity tough on those people identified in the article above and business owners who still await assistance from the same government.

Harold Disgracey

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 24, 2020, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Likely to be a reporting delay. And numbers are always much lower on Mondays. Wouldn't read too much into these numbers.

The results from pillar 2 usually make up the bulk of positive test results and are usually 3 or 4 times that of pillar 1 results. Today they are 1/3 that of pillar 1, obviously a reporting delay somewhere. Hopefully the recent slight downward trend continues.

Blowitupref

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Low testing number in the 6 counties i believe.  The 26 had 190 positive swabs from over 10,000 tests in the last 24 hours that's the lowest since early September and so long as no backlog cases added in should get under 200 cases reported this evening which hasn't happened since September either.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Milltown Row2

Wonder why there has been a drop in testing? Is it because people not getting symptoms, so not testing as many, or people not testing because it would affect their income, should they be positive? 

Or, hopefully we have turned a corner? Well at least for a week, but after the shopping spree has Infected a few! 
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

imtommygunn

I got a test booked really quickly for last Wednesday and the place was dead. The rest of had to test on Friday and the place was bunged. (Carryduff). Dunno what that says mind you lol.

Less than 2k tests seems low.

What a doctor said to me was that it wasn't really important what numbers were but hospital turnover and they are never really dropping in numbers - it's constant. Hopefully in weeks to come that will change.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Wonder why there has been a drop in testing? Is it because people not getting symptoms, so not testing as many, or people not testing because it would affect their income, should they be positive? 

Or, hopefully we have turned a corner? Well at least for a week, but after the shopping spree has Infected a few!

Numbers dropped dramatically up our way

johnnycool

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 06:56:30 PM
I got a test booked really quickly for last Wednesday and the place was dead. The rest of had to test on Friday and the place was bunged. (Carryduff). Dunno what that says mind you lol.

Less than 2k tests seems low.

What a doctor said to me was that it wasn't really important what numbers were but hospital turnover and they are never really dropping in numbers - it's constant. Hopefully in weeks to come that will change.

Wonder why they don't report daily hospital admissions as that would mean more than how many people have tested positive.

Maybe they do but it's never the headline figure you'd hear on the news.