Author Topic: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018  (Read 3056 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2017, 09:00:31 AM »
Of course the doctrine has evolved over the years since our understanding of the gospel message has increased and refined
To suit its own needs?
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

The Subbie

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2017, 09:30:27 AM »
Vatican 2 changed the way mass was celebrated,mass in Latin (still remember acting as Altar server during these) and a few other cosmetic changes for ecumenical purposes.It did not change core doctrine.

One must also remember that the Pope,being the proxy of Christ on earth,is constantly the receptacle of Divine inspiration and enlightenment,so any alterations he makes are divinely inspired

What about Slavery Tony ?
The Church not only explicitly condoned slavery and allowed it in Canon Law, but the Church actually owned slaves itself. The Church did not get around to condemning it until 1888 decades after most secular governments had already abolished it. Despite the fact that the Bible and the Church condoned it for centuries, John Paul II included slavery among matters that are ''intrinsically evil'' -- prohibited ''always and forever'' and ''without any exception'' -- a violation of a universal, immutable norm.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/books/review/a-church-that-can-and-cannot-change-dogma.html?referer=

Historically, one of the most prominent examples of the Church changing its teaching was in the matter of usury, or charging interest on loans. The early Church forbad interest on loans, much in the same way Islam does today. But the teaching was eventually softened to state that exorbitant interest was forbidden.



magpie seanie

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2017, 09:44:02 AM »
Magpie Seanie,it is the role of this and any other Pope to defend and promote Catholic doctrine,which is timeless and unchangeable.This Pope may be more unconventional than his immediate predecessors but I have detected no divergence from doctrine.

I do not know what is so hard to understand about the fact that the Church's mission is to save souls not win popularity,therefore it simply cannot change its scripture based stance on homosexuality,abortion etc just to be "compassionate" or "popular"


Some of your heroes in the hierarchy don't share your views. Nor does the Pope. Interesting article which highlights what a joke the whole organisation has become. I think this Pope is a good man who hasn't lost sight of the big picture....unlike the doctrine obsessed scholars who specialise in judging others.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis

Francis presents a considerable problem for those (the Guardian for the sake of argument) who have demonised the church for years (some of it justified) to promote their own agendas.
The pope could always be presented as a type of villian for their causes but Francis has turned that on its head by going deeper into the principles of the Catholic doctrine rather than the specifics and preaches a message and values that they also adhere too.
They're a bit flumaxed by this demonstrated perfectly by this article presenting a conspiracy theory that Francis is a renegade against the church and that they are hoping to get rid of  him ASAP. And hence the church at the root of it all is just as bad a bogeyman as it as always been. While Ive no doubt that there are those who oppose him I haven't heard any of it at all and in fact since he became pope there is frequent mention of him on the pulpit so I would say those who support him far outnumber those that do.


That's an interesting take omaghjoe. I'm not sure I fully agree with you. I hope you are right and there is strong support for Pope Francis within the hierarchy and that him and his successors can bring the catholic church back to what it should be......a compassionate, caring, non-judgemental organisation. Obviously my vision for the church is completely at odds with Tony's and his ilk but I'd say to them - what's the point in a church that's there to make money, protect its own no matter what and wag the finger at those they believe are doing wrong?

T Fearon

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2017, 09:47:54 AM »
The Church exists not to make money but to defend and promote scripture based doctrine with the aim of saving souls.

Compassion etc is fine provided it doesn't lead to tolerance of sin of any kind as this will not lead to salvation

seafoid

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2017, 09:53:27 AM »
The Church exists not to make money but to defend and promote scripture based doctrine with the aim of saving souls.

Compassion etc is fine provided it doesn't lead to tolerance of sin of any kind as this will not lead to salvation
That is not how the Church works in practice.
All sorts of abuses are tolerated. The Reformation happened because of this
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

playwiththewind1st

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2017, 10:24:36 AM »
The Vatican not making money? That's a laugh.

Let's remind ourselves of the nefarious activities of yet another snow white, pristine character within the Vatican......yes, this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2006/feb/23/guardianobituaries.religion


magpie seanie

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2017, 10:34:06 AM »
The Church exists not to make money but to defend and promote scripture based doctrine with the aim of saving souls.

Compassion etc is fine provided it doesn't lead to tolerance of sin of any kind as this will not lead to salvation


Tony - you're so wrong it's hard to believe. The person we're all supposed to try to emulate broke bread with sinners and replaced all the commandments with this one - "love one another as I have loved you". He basically told us that this strict adherence to rules and regulations and looking down on/judging others was bullshit. Just try to be a good person and try to help others. It's really that simple.

And if people don't believe - that's fine. I'm sure they'll agree that trying to do the above is right. Focus on what unites us, not what divides.

Rossfan

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2017, 10:48:00 AM »
Less of that oul Christianity guff SeÓnie.
If everyone did that sure we'd have no wars, no famines, no massive inequality, no tr**p in the White House, no homelessness....etc etc.
Sure that'd be no good at all to the bankers, arms dealers, land grabbers, greed merchants etc etc
2017 Double Connacht Champions

playwiththewind1st

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2017, 10:52:28 AM »
Less of that oul Christianity guff.

Best thing ever said on this board. But, could we postpone implementing it to 26th December, until we get Christmas over?

Denn Forever

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:41 AM »
Queen are not the same without Freddy.   Seeing as it's Ireland, Queen with Jack L might be ok.
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

magpie seanie

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2017, 11:00:59 AM »
Less of that oul Christianity guff SeÓnie.
If everyone did that sure we'd have no wars, no famines, no massive inequality, no tr**p in the White House, no homelessness....etc etc.
Sure that'd be no good at all to the bankers, arms dealers, land grabbers, greed merchants etc etc


I think you have a point there. Unfortunately.

OgraAnDun

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2017, 11:01:43 AM »
The Church exists not to make money but to defend and promote scripture based doctrine with the aim of saving souls.

Compassion etc is fine provided it doesn't lead to tolerance of sin of any kind as this will not lead to salvation


Tony - you're so wrong it's hard to believe. The person we're all supposed to try to emulate broke bread with sinners and replaced all the commandments with this one - "love one another as I have loved you". He basically told us that this strict adherence to rules and regulations and looking down on/judging others was bullshit. Just try to be a good person and try to help others. It's really that simple.

And if people don't believe - that's fine. I'm sure they'll agree that trying to do the above is right. Focus on what unites us, not what divides.

Spot on, great post and exactly what the Catholic Church should be about.

T Fearon

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2017, 12:08:37 PM »
The Lord befriended sinners with the aim of coverting them and to turn away from sin.He did not do so out of any tolerance of sin or condoning it.This was his mission,no point him wasting his time spending it with the righteous.

playwiththewind1st

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2017, 12:15:56 PM »
Or pontificating on gaaboard.com

tonto1888

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Re: Joint Papal / Queen visit in Northern Ireland in 2018
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2017, 12:26:14 PM »
Less of that oul Christianity guff.

Best thing ever said on this board. But, could we postpone implementing it to 26th December, until we get Christmas over?

you mean Yule, right?