China Coronavirus

[Square Ball]

I use this
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[sid waddell]

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]

What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

Regimes which run on rejection of objective truth as a central tenet of their existence were never going to fare well, because they couldn't help, well, denying the truth of the seriousness of this.

Russia, the US, the UK and Brazil are the four offenders in chief in this regard that we know about. I wouldn't bet much that India or Turkey are handling it much better or aren't engaging in flagrant cover ups.

China is a funny one. They obviously operate on denial of truth to a very large extent - and that's why this virus is a worldwide problem - because they denied the truth of the virus at first - but at the same time they do seem to have a commitment to cutting edge science and technology and a willingness to go all in on it when they decide they have to, which is why they seem to have been able to contain the problem in comparative terms anyway - though again I wouldn't bet a whole lot that there hasn't been a cover up to a greater or lesser degree.

[dublin7]

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]

What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

Regimes which run on rejection of objective truth as a central tenet of their existence were never going to fare well, because they couldn't help, well, denying the truth of the seriousness of this.

Russia, the US, the UK and Brazil are the four offenders in chief in this regard that we know about. I wouldn't bet much that India or Turkey are handling it much better or aren't engaging in flagrant cover ups.

China is a funny one. They obviously operate on denial of truth to a very large extent - and that's why this virus is a worldwide problem - because they denied the truth of the virus at first - but at the same time they do seem to have a commitment to cutting edge science and technology and a willingness to go all in on it when they decide they have to, which is why they seem to have been able to contain the problem in comparative terms anyway - though again I wouldn't bet a whole lot that there hasn't been a cover up to a greater or lesser degree.

I'd agree with this. China seems have implemented a lockdown on it's citizens that makes our lockdown look like a summer holiday.

In terms of their figures released I'd add at least one 0 on to any of their "confirmed" figures for cases/deaths. They're one of those countries that could make an entire village disappear and no one would find out about it

[RadioGAAGAA]

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]

What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/10/moscow-sees-20-surge-in-mortality-in-april-official-data-a70235

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/world/europe/coronavirus-deaths-moscow.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/coronavirus-russia-defends-its-exceptionally-precise-covid-19-death-data

[thewobbler]

Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Boris and co may well actually be an abomination, but how they use/control/bend the truth is far, far from unique in the world of politics.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Erm, who has said that?


Are most not saying that the official numbers in some other places are farcical too?

[sid waddell]

Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Boris and co may well actually be an abomination, but how they use/control/bend the truth is far, far from unique in the world of politics.

Who even needs to be sceptical of the figures released by the UK? The figures they themselves have released show they're making a complete bollix of things.

[thewobbler]

Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Erm, who has said that?


Are most not saying that the official numbers in some other places are farcical too?

I'm not going to go back through thousands of posts Radio, but a constant chime on this thread has been comparisons of Ireland/Uk with everywhere else.

I would think comparisons are mostly futile myself. It's like comparing teams from the 70s with modern teams.

[thewobbler]

But just as a footnote, there does seem to be a desire to cling to figures from countries that are "performing well", as being more accurate.

Maybe they actually have knocked it out of the park.

As mentioned before, I reserve the right to be sceptical.

[RadioGAAGAA]

But just as a footnote, there does seem to be a desire to cling to figures from countries that are "performing well", as being more accurate.

You don't look toward the government published figures when drawing comparisons. Or if you do, you make sure that there isn't widespread complaints about the accuracy of them.

Verifying information can sometimes be fairly simple. Other times very hard.

Is Trump lying? Undoubtedly, there is a stream of figures and stats that show it.
Are the Chinese lying? Probably, but we've a devil of a time proving it.
Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.

[armaghniac]

The number of tests is a good help in assessing data, places with few tests don't have reliable numbers for cases and deaths. Places with lots of tests and few cases probably really don't have much infection.

[imtommygunn]

But just as a footnote, there does seem to be a desire to cling to figures from countries that are "performing well", as being more accurate.

You don't look toward the government published figures when drawing comparisons. Or if you do, you make sure that there isn't widespread complaints about the accuracy of them.

Verifying information can sometimes be fairly simple. Other times very hard.

Is Trump lying? Undoubtedly, there is a stream of figures and stats that show it.
Are the Chinese lying? Probably, but we've a devil of a time proving it.
Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.

South Korea unlikely to be lying either.

The tories lie about everything so I don't think the UK can be trusted. Ireland should be better but like you say depends on number of tests.

Yeah number of tests is a big help.

We are in the era of "#fakenews" so yeah hard to know what to believe at times. I think that Georgia thing summed it up. You would tend to see a lot of messing with legends in graphs and representations on different axis these days to try and "obfuscate" data. (or lie)

[thewobbler]

And just like that, 3 posts in a row along the lines of "why would Germans lie, why would Koreans lie? But them damned English, all they do is lie".

Look you're entitled to distrust the UK.

But your willingness to trust politicians from other countries is founded on racial stereotypes or confirmation bias. Not reality.

[Smurfy123]

Wobbler talks a lot of sense
Time to start slowly getting things back to normal
Slow and steady
Teachers refusing to go back? What's that all about. Only 2 classes gradually getting kids back. You actually couldn't make it up

[Milltown Row2]

Wobbler talks a lot of sense
Time to start slowly getting things back to normal
Slow and steady
Teachers refusing to go back? What's that all about. Only 2 classes gradually getting kids back. You actually couldn't make it up

P1 and P6's were the classes that were always going back first should schools go ahead. Not sure who doesn't want back work though? If its proved safe and we know that kids cant pass the virus on (which is bollox) then its safe for teachers to teach and not endanger their own family hen they leave work.

Can you tell me thats its defo safe?