Hastings Cup 2016 - Now back to normal

[ross4life]

You are entitled to your opinion.

In my view it's an outdated one and it's inherent among counties that have little or no chance of winning  Sam so it's understandable from that angle. u21 becomes this holy grail where lads have often played their best football before they are 22 and never progress as seniors

As are you entitled to your opinion & you never had much time for the U21 grade had you?

Certain players develop at different rates/ages you could be average enough minor then a few years later stand out at U21 level or some minor lads can become seniors without the need of impressing U21 level.

Its true some lads can play their best football by 22 but injuries normally play a part in that.

[moysider]

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

The majority of these senior panelists got their in the first place by impressing at U21 level. I should note college sides were first introduced to FBD league in 2003 before that we had one group of five & better pre-season Connacht competition than now.

Your suggestion of copying rugby or If you play senior championship the previous year you should be barred playing U21 the following year would mean the U21 county managements won't be able to pick their strongest 15 then and i don't see the sense in that especially when many lads under the age of 21 are not established seniors.

But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

Yes but who are the senior regulars? haven't seen the Mayo hastings cup team but i doubt any would be regarded as senior regular. None of our starting 15 Saturday are just a few panelists that might get a run out during the FBD.

You are entitled to your opinion.

In my view it's an outdated one and it's inherent among counties that have little or no chance of winning  Sam so it's understandable from that angle. u21 becomes this holy grail where lads have often played their best football before they are 22 and never progress as seniors

You are entitled to your opinion.

No colleges in IC pre-season comps. Play Hastings Cup and the like mid-week so the few overlapping players don't have to play twice in 24 hours. No playing for their clubs until their teams are out of the Sigerson and U21 races. Problem solved.

Yeah. Cant argue with that but I m sure somebody will.

[INDIANA]

You are entitled to your opinion.

In my view it's an outdated one and it's inherent among counties that have little or no chance of winning  Sam so it's understandable from that angle. u21 becomes this holy grail where lads have often played their best football before they are 22 and never progress as seniors

As are you entitled to your opinion & you never had much time for the U21 grade had you?

Certain players develop at different rates/ages you could be average enough minor then a few years later stand out at U21 level or some minor lads can become seniors without the need of impressing U21 level.

Its true some lads can play their best football by 22 but injuries normally play a part in that.

If you've played senior championship you're beyond u21 . That's my view in a nutshell

[moysider]

You are entitled to your opinion.

In my view it's an outdated one and it's inherent among counties that have little or no chance of winning  Sam so it's understandable from that angle. u21 becomes this holy grail where lads have often played their best football before they are 22 and never progress as seniors

As are you entitled to your opinion & you never had much time for the U21 grade had you?

Certain players develop at different rates/ages you could be average enough minor then a few years later stand out at U21 level or some minor lads can become seniors without the need of impressing U21 level.

Its true some lads can play their best football by 22 but injuries normally play a part in that.

And in some cases a lot earlier.

I remember a few years ago a ref that did a game between a McRory Cup team playing a challenge in Connacht  told me that looking at the Ulster lads was like watching Tyrone seniors -when Tyrone seniors were great. They wiped the board with the westerners.

You might think that this is the way to go. Coaching and systems early. Dunno. Hothouse flowers don t last.

Remember the classy Tyrone minor team of 2008?  A rabble  team of ner-do-wells from Mayo almost done for them. That was not supposed to happen. If I m not mistaken some of the Mayo lads have fared better since. 

[ross4life]

What I meant was that if you had a 20 yr old Gooch Cooper, Paul Mannion or Cillian O Connor; lads winning AIs and YPOTH .....

Ok and i agree those type of established players have no need to be playing in this pre season competition. Hastings cup is to test the strength of panel before the championship & then established seniors can be re-introduced by March. I don't think i would want to see U-21 AI or Connacht championship without the best players.

If you've played senior championship you're beyond u21 . That's my view in a nutshell

So lets says you play one senior championship game fail to shine & taken off, is that it not allowed back U-21 grade to develop?

[moysider]

I doubt any county (even the blue chips like Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone) would want to head into U21 championship without their established senior players - if they have any.

Several reasons for this.

A county's dominance does not last forever. Dublin now probably think the good times will keep on rolling but..... Tyrone and Armagh used to think the glory days would never end too. Only Kerry have a lease on success - and then only at senior level

Why should a manager and other players be penalised because some of their cohorts are deemed too good to play.

Why should a talented 19/20 yr old miss out on an AI medal because he is a good footballer.

[INDIANA]

I doubt any county (even the blue chips like Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone) would want to head into U21 championship without their established senior players - if they have any.

Several reasons for this.

A county's dominance does not last forever. Dublin now probably think the good times will keep on rolling but..... Tyrone and Armagh used to think the glory days would never end too. Only Kerry have a lease on success - and then only at senior level

Why should a manager and other players be penalised because some of their cohorts are deemed too good to play.

Why should a talented 19/20 yr old miss out on an AI medal because he is a good footballer.

Our u21 senior panelists trained twice with the 21s prior to the first round last year

We did alright if I remember

[Bingo]

I'd agree with Indiana, you can't be a master of all age groups.

We really need to move agree from the idea that a player eligible for an age group but good enough to play above that has to do all. It doesn't happen in other sports.

A player on a senior panel shouldn't be playing U21 with panel been the key word. At best let him turn up for matches if he not a starter, he should be good enough to fit into the team without training with them.

A  minor shouldn't be playing U21 county if he a county minor player. Surely every county is better served targeting players 19,20,21 to play U21 that outside of this hastings cup is actually a knockout competition that will be over for most as quick as it starts.

[Syferus]

Some crazy ideas being thrown out here. An U21 who is good enough to be on a senior panel will have trained with roughly the same group of players from U14 up, certainly here and in many counties. If anything that good U21 will want to play with his long-time friends more than any of the other teams he plays on. That player probably has the most fun of all playing with that team, in your efforts to apply some sort of 'objectivism' to a schedule problem you'd suck enjoyment out of the schedule too. It's just replacing one problem with another.

[AZOffaly]

Some crazy ideas being thrown out here. An U21 who is good enough to be on a senior panel will have trained with roughly the same group of players from U14 up, certainly here and in many counties. If anything that good U21 will want to play with his long-time friends more than any of the other teams he plays on. That player probably has the most fun of all playing with that team. The two of you are trying to create a mess a bureaucratic mess by saying that good U21s shouldn't be playing U21 football.

In that case, he'd stay with the U21s. What's the issue?

[Syferus]

Some crazy ideas being thrown out here. An U21 who is good enough to be on a senior panel will have trained with roughly the same group of players from U14 up, certainly here and in many counties. If anything that good U21 will want to play with his long-time friends more than any of the other teams he plays on. That player probably has the most fun of all playing with that team. The two of you are trying to create a mess a bureaucratic mess by saying that good U21s shouldn't be playing U21 football.

In that case, he'd stay with the U21s. What's the issue?

So he should be penalized for being good enough for both and been made choose? Do you not see how that is a pointless salutation to create? You fix the schedule and not be a lazy and dump decisions like that on young players. The system should do the leg-work for players but just as the broken schedule is failing them now, that idea is another case of the system failing a player.

[AZOffaly]

Some crazy ideas being thrown out here. An U21 who is good enough to be on a senior panel will have trained with roughly the same group of players from U14 up, certainly here and in many counties. If anything that good U21 will want to play with his long-time friends more than any of the other teams he plays on. That player probably has the most fun of all playing with that team. The two of you are trying to create a mess a bureaucratic mess by saying that good U21s shouldn't be playing U21 football.

In that case, he'd stay with the U21s. What's the issue?

So he should be penalized for being good enough for both and been made choose? Do you not see how that is a pointless salutation to create? You fix the schedule and not be a lazy and dump decisions like that on young players. The system should do the leg-work for players but just as the broken schedule is failing them now, that idea is another case of the system failing a player.

The point is, as I see it, these players are playing too much, too young. They will always want to play as much as they can, at least until they burn out, so it behoves the GAA to protect them from themselves and from over-enthusiastic managers out to protect their own jobs.

If you are playing U21, and are happy to do so, I don't think you should be playing senior inter county at the same time. I also think the Sigerson stuff should be seriously downgraded in perception, because that's bringing extra pressure on the same bunch of players.

If you want to step up to senior, so be it, but again you have to refrain from U21.

There are only so many weeks in the year, and if all these competitions are to be catered for, the only thing you can do is legislate for burn out by stopping them playing for multiple teams.

Alternatively scrap things like the Sigerson, Hastings and/or preseason senior competitions.

[Captain Obvious]

I doubt any county (even the blue chips like Dublin, Kerry and Tyrone) would want to head into U21 championship without their established senior players - if they have any.

Several reasons for this.

A county's dominance does not last forever. Dublin now probably think the good times will keep on rolling but..... Tyrone and Armagh used to think the glory days would never end too. Only Kerry have a lease on success - and then only at senior level

Why should a manager and other players be penalised because some of their cohorts are deemed too good to play.

Why should a talented 19/20 yr old miss out on an AI medal because he is a good footballer.

Our u21 senior panelists trained twice with the 21s prior to the first round last year

We did alright if I remember

In fairness those u21 senior panelists would have got the required training with the seniors. It's doubtful if Dublin would have won Leinster without Mannion,Costello and the other seniors.

[Chimley]

The reality is that eventually, either the Sigerson or U21 championship will probably go. My money is on the U21 (due to the power of the colleges) and perhaps a move of the minor grade to U19 at the same time to stop the ridiculous scenario where a young player is playing championship for his county days after finishing the leaving cert.

This will be good for some of the elite young talents and definitely good for the larger counties like Dublin and Cork who will still have a sizable number of players exposed to top class training and competition. Where would that leave the have-nots who will be deprived of a proven avenue of development from U21 to senior?   

[AZOffaly]

The reality is that eventually, either the Sigerson or U21 championship will probably go. My money is on the U21 (due to the power of the colleges) and perhaps a move of the minor grade to U19 at the same time to stop the ridiculous scenario where a young player is playing championship for his county days after finishing the leaving cert.

This will be good for some of the elite young talents and definitely good for the larger counties like Dublin and Cork who will still have a sizable number of players exposed to top class training and competition. Where would that leave the have-nots who will be deprived of a proven avenue of development from U21 to senior?

Maybe the Junior championship?