Hastings Cup 2016 - Now back to normal

[Syferus]

Ok, I think everybody would agree that playing 4 games in 8 days is not a good idea. But how many players actually do this? We should be able to come up with stats from match reports? I know Steven Conroy played Hastings Cup for Mayo on Sat. and a half for NUIG on Sunday. Undoubtedly others togged on Sunday as well for other colleges.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/murtaghs-punishing-schedule-the-perfect-recipe-for-burnout-30084187.html

We're particularly terrible at making our best young lads quadruple job but that's about what a good young lad starting for college/U21 county and on a senior county panel faces into for the first two months of the year - Murtagh racked up 45 days out of 59 with matches/training last year. Madness.

That is indeed madness.
How many Roscommon lads played Hastings and FBD at the weekend Sy? Should be handy enough to work it out?
You can understand why every manager would want Murtagh to play for his team. Managers give up their time too and want to be successful. I know a poor team takes up as much time as a good team.
Maybe players should play one competition or another i.e. Hastings or FBD/equivalent. Of course the manager that loses the services of a serious player will be peeved that he s preparing a team without the services of key players.

U21 team v. Kerry on Saturday:
R. Mannion
N. McInerney, S. Mullooly, C. Kenny
K. Farrell, E. McGrath, R. Daly
S. Flynn, T. O'Rourke
K. Kilcline, C. Compton, S. Killoran
K. Finn, P. Kenny, N. Gately

Senior team v. IT Sligo on Sunday:
D. O'Malley
S. McDermott, N. Carty, R. Stack
B. Murtagh, I. Kilbride, C. Cafferky
C. Shine, N. Daly
M. Nally, M. Healy (0-1), O. Milton
C. Compton, S. Kilbride, C. Murtagh

No U21s who are on the senior team played both games bar Ronan Daly (HT sub), well apart from Kiernan Kilcline but the poor lad managed to get a black card within a minute of stepping on the field. The C Compton on the seniors is Colin, the older brother of Cathal, the CF for the U21s.

The problems last weekend were with colleges playing players who had played in U21 matches on Saturday in the senior IC pre-season competitions. Fintan Kelly who played the second half for DCU on Saturday came on as a sub for our seniors too.

[moysider]

a sensible senior manager would say, "he's doing enough" and not flog him.
same with U21 management.

its the recovery time between training and games that actually improves your fitness and performance

Yes, but I see the problem as the clash between college and U21 commitments. What manager gives sway here? Both are appointed to get the best from their teams. I know here people are very annoyed with the way our U21 have bombed last few years. If anything these teams looked undercooked rather than flogged to death. I cant imagine any senior manager expecting players involved in U21 and colleges train and play with a county senior sides for FBD etc. If he does ........

[Shrewdness]

Moysider, as far as i know, only two of the Ros U-21's had any involvement in the FBD on Sunday. Ronan Daly and Ciaran Kilcline came on as second half subs. Two minutes after coming on, Kilcline got a black card!!.....Syferus' post above and mine obviously crossed in the post!!

[ross4life]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

[INDIANA]

a sensible senior manager would say, "he's doing enough" and not flog him.
same with U21 management.

its the recovery time between training and games that actually improves your fitness and performance

Yes, but I see the problem as the clash between college and U21 commitments. What manager gives sway here? Both are appointed to get the best from their teams. I know here people are very annoyed with the way our U21 have bombed last few years. If anything these teams looked undercooked rather than flogged to death. I cant imagine any senior manager expecting players involved in U21 and colleges train and play with a county senior sides for FBD etc. If he does ........

If you play senior championship the previous year you should be barred playing u21 the following year

Robbie Henshaw didn't play u20 WC for Ireland becasue he was deemed as playing too many games with Connacht that year and in the eyes of the irish management had gone past the stage of playing u20.

That's an example of proper player management- the opposite to the GAA- the GAA is an absolute disgrace in the manner it ALLOWS the ritual abuse of u21 players.

[moysider]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

That s a good point.

Let s look for solutions rather than pointing out the obvious.

Those figures from Ros would tend to indicate that the stories of flogging is exaggerated.  What are the stats like in other counties?

I ll try to find the logistics for Mayo but I would expect likes of Cian Burke, Seanie Regan and others would be key players for their colleges. At least Seanie wasn t involved in the Mayo hurling match. Jaysus there s a lad could be playing hurling and football in college!

[INDIANA]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

That s a good point.

Let s look for solutions rather than pointing out the obvious.

Those figures from Ros would tend to indicate that the stories of flogging is exaggerated.  What are the stats like in other counties?

I ll try to find the logistics for Mayo but I would expect likes of Cian Burke, Seanie Regan and others would be key players for their colleges. At least Seanie wasn t involved in the Mayo hurling match. Jaysus there s a lad could be playing hurling and football in college!

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

[moysider]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

That s a good point.

Let s look for solutions rather than pointing out the obvious.

Those figures from Ros would tend to indicate that the stories of flogging is exaggerated.  What are the stats like in other counties?

I ll try to find the logistics for Mayo but I would expect likes of Cian Burke, Seanie Regan and others would be key players for their colleges. At least Seanie wasn t involved in the Mayo hurling match. Jaysus there s a lad could be playing hurling and football in college!

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

Agree.

Mayo had one in Hastings last Saturday. Diarmuid O Connor. Thing is JH was probably a bit optimistic with him last year ( he got damn all match time after Ros but hopefully will have learned a lot and can bring it to U21 set-up which needs a boost). He also will benefit from playing with his peers because he would have done 10X more training than playing matches last year.
The U21 management would badly need him available though to develop a team after a dreadful few years. There s a gun to managers heads to produce results. There are no excuses once the punters walk through the turnstiles.
But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

[INDIANA]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

That s a good point.

Let s look for solutions rather than pointing out the obvious.

Those figures from Ros would tend to indicate that the stories of flogging is exaggerated.  What are the stats like in other counties?

I ll try to find the logistics for Mayo but I would expect likes of Cian Burke, Seanie Regan and others would be key players for their colleges. At least Seanie wasn t involved in the Mayo hurling match. Jaysus there s a lad could be playing hurling and football in college!

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

Agree.

Mayo had one in Hastings last Saturday. Diarmuid O Connor. Thing is JH was probably a bit optimistic with him last year ( he got damn all match time after Ros but hopefully will have learned a lot and can bring it to U21 set-up which needs a boost). He also will benefit from playing with his peers because he would have done 10X more training than playing matches last year.
The U21 management would badly need him available though to develop a team after a dreadful few years. There s a gun to managers heads to produce results. There are no excuses once the punters walk through the turnstiles.
But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

I think it's plain wrong to ask players to play 2 games in 2 days. At county level lads are running 10-11 km per match. To ask them to to do that two days in a row on heavy ground is a disgrace in my opinion

[Syferus]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

That s a good point.

Let s look for solutions rather than pointing out the obvious.

Those figures from Ros would tend to indicate that the stories of flogging is exaggerated.  What are the stats like in other counties?

I ll try to find the logistics for Mayo but I would expect likes of Cian Burke, Seanie Regan and others would be key players for their colleges. At least Seanie wasn t involved in the Mayo hurling match. Jaysus there s a lad could be playing hurling and football in college!

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

Agree.

Mayo had one in Hastings last Saturday. Diarmuid O Connor. Thing is JH was probably a bit optimistic with him last year ( he got damn all match time after Ros but hopefully will have learned a lot and can bring it to U21 set-up which needs a boost). He also will benefit from playing with his peers because he would have done 10X more training than playing matches last year.
The U21 management would badly need him available though to develop a team after a dreadful few years. There s a gun to managers heads to produce results. There are no excuses once the punters walk through the turnstiles.
But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

In fairness Kilcline and Ronan Daly were making their first appearances for us, neither are anything close to starters right now. Believe it or not this weekend will end up being one of the better ones for player safety not just for us but for most counties.

[moysider]

Shane Killoran played the full match for our U21s Saturday then played the full match for University of Limerick on Sunday probably the same again this weekend for him, aforementioned Cathal Compton will probably be expected to line out for DIT again tomorrow night and Sunday . Do college sides really need to be playing in pre-season inter county competitions? they have their own league to get ready for the Sigerson cup.

That s a good point.

Let s look for solutions rather than pointing out the obvious.

Those figures from Ros would tend to indicate that the stories of flogging is exaggerated.  What are the stats like in other counties?

I ll try to find the logistics for Mayo but I would expect likes of Cian Burke, Seanie Regan and others would be key players for their colleges. At least Seanie wasn t involved in the Mayo hurling match. Jaysus there s a lad could be playing hurling and football in college!

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

Agree.

Mayo had one in Hastings last Saturday. Diarmuid O Connor. Thing is JH was probably a bit optimistic with him last year ( he got damn all match time after Ros but hopefully will have learned a lot and can bring it to U21 set-up which needs a boost). He also will benefit from playing with his peers because he would have done 10X more training than playing matches last year.
The U21 management would badly need him available though to develop a team after a dreadful few years. There s a gun to managers heads to produce results. There are no excuses once the punters walk through the turnstiles.
But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

I think it's plain wrong to ask players to play 2 games in 2 days. At county level lads are running 10-11 km per match. To ask them to to do that two days in a row on heavy ground is a disgrace in my opinion

Agree. Croke Park should legislate for who plays for whom at a given time of year. Then everybody would know where they stood.

I've taken a step back but one of the most frustrating things I encountered was Junior/Senior club managers inviting promising fit 17/18 yr olds to training in Jan?Feb. and running the hole off them with the older lads trying to lose bellies - the evening before a college's championship match. The young fellas couldn t refuse because of the club, club club, blah, blah blah. Months of preparation and commitment ruined.

[ross4life]

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

The majority of these senior panelists got their in the first place by impressing at U21 level. I should note college sides were first introduced to FBD league in 2003 before that we had one group of five & better pre-season Connacht competition than now.

Your suggestion of copying rugby or If you play senior championship the previous year you should be barred playing U21 the following year would mean the U21 county managements won't be able to pick their strongest 15 then and i don't see the sense in that especially when many lads under the age of 21 are not established seniors.

But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

Yes but who are the senior regulars? haven't seen the Mayo hastings cup team but i doubt any would be regarded as senior regular. None of our starting 15 Saturday are just a few panelists that might get a run out during the FBD.

[INDIANA]

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

The majority of these senior panelists got their in the first place by impressing at U21 level. I should note college sides were first introduced to FBD league in 2003 before that we had one group of five & better pre-season Connacht competition than now.

Your suggestion of copying rugby or If you play senior championship the previous year you should be barred playing U21 the following year would mean the U21 county managements won't be able to pick their strongest 15 then and i don't see the sense in that especially when many lads under the age of 21 are not established seniors.

But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

Yes but who are the senior regulars? haven't seen the Mayo hastings cup team but i doubt any would be regarded as senior regular. None of our starting 15 Saturday are just a few panelists that might get a run out during the FBD.

You are entitled to your opinion.

In my view it's an outdated one and it's inherent among counties that have little or no chance of winning  Sam so it's understandable from that angle. u21 becomes this holy grail where lads have often played their best football before they are 22 and never progress as seniors

[Syferus]

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

The majority of these senior panelists got their in the first place by impressing at U21 level. I should note college sides were first introduced to FBD league in 2003 before that we had one group of five & better pre-season Connacht competition than now.

Your suggestion of copying rugby or If you play senior championship the previous year you should be barred playing U21 the following year would mean the U21 county managements won't be able to pick their strongest 15 then and i don't see the sense in that especially when many lads under the age of 21 are not established seniors.

But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

Yes but who are the senior regulars? haven't seen the Mayo hastings cup team but i doubt any would be regarded as senior regular. None of our starting 15 Saturday are just a few panelists that might get a run out during the FBD.

You are entitled to your opinion.

In my view it's an outdated one and it's inherent among counties that have little or no chance of winning  Sam so it's understandable from that angle. u21 becomes this holy grail where lads have often played their best football before they are 22 and never progress as seniors

You are entitled to your opinion.

No colleges in IC pre-season comps. Play Hastings Cup and the like mid-week so the few overlapping players don't have to play twice in 24 hours. No playing for their clubs until their teams are out of the Sigerson and U21 races. Problem solved.

[moysider]

Why do senior panelists have to play in the Hastings Cup?

The majority of these senior panelists got their in the first place by impressing at U21 level. I should note college sides were first introduced to FBD league in 2003 before that we had one group of five & better pre-season Connacht competition than now.

Your suggestion of copying rugby or If you play senior championship the previous year you should be barred playing U21 the following year would mean the U21 county managements won't be able to pick their strongest 15 then and i don't see the sense in that especially when many lads under the age of 21 are not established seniors.

But I agree. Senior regulars should not be playing Hastings, no way.

Yes but who are the senior regulars? haven't seen the Mayo hastings cup team but i doubt any would be regarded as senior regular. None of our starting 15 Saturday are just a few panelists that might get a run out during the FBD.

Mayo had only one panellist and not a regular.

What I meant was that if you had a 20 yr old Gooch Cooper, Paul Mannion or Cillian O Connor; lads winning AIs and YPOTH .....