Clerical abuse!

[The Boy Wonder]

It's quite apparent that many strident opponents of the Catholic Church have no interest in listening or trying to appreciate any viewpoint they don't agree with.

[From the Bunker]

Banana Republic
Septic Isle
Screaming in the suffering sea
It sounds like crying
Everywhere I go
Everywhere I see
The black and blue uniforms
Police and priests

And I wonder do you wonder
While you're sleeping with your whore
That sharing beds with history
Is like a-licking running sores
Forty shades of green yeah
Sixty shades of red
Heroes going cheap these days
Price; a bullet in the head

repeat chorus

Take your hand and lead you
Up a garden path
Let me stand aside here
And watch you pass
Striking up a soldier's song
I know that tune
It begs too many questions
And answers to,

repeat chorus

The purple and the pinstripe
Mutely shake their heads
A silense shrieking volumes
A violence worse than the condemn
Stab you in the back yeah
Laughing in your face
Glad to see the place again
It's a pitty nothing's changed

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

It's quite apparent that many strident opponents of the Catholic Church have no interest in listening or trying to appreciate any viewpoint they don't agree with.

Quite.

Lar, I'm not making excuses for the church, just trying to balance the views expressed on here.
I'll state my views on this subject AGAIN. My total sympathy and sorrow goes towards the victims, my total anger, resentment and hatred goes towards the perpetrators of these heinous crimes and I believe that they should face the full rigors of the law.
My spongers comment is meant to waken people to the very real possibility of the scandel being abused by unscruplious people (human nature).
Because my views may differ slightly from others I'm "brain washed" or talking rubbish - yeah great arguement! 

Myles your constant permarage on this subject is becoming tired.
What happened was WRONG and thankfully has been exposed AND people are now trying to find resolution to the situation, lets let them get on with it.

[orangeman]

15 billion euro ??


That could save the state from bankruptcy.



I think most people are looking on with interest into the police investigations and whether charges will follow. Jail terms for the perpetrators will help a lot without any other money changing hands.

[Lar Naparka]

It's quite apparent that many strident opponents of the Catholic Church have no interest in listening or trying to appreciate any viewpoint they don't agree with.

Quite.

Lar, I'm not making excuses for the church, just trying to balance the views expressed on here.
I'll state my views on this subject AGAIN. My total sympathy and sorrow goes towards the victims, my total anger, resentment and hatred goes towards the perpetrators of these heinous crimes and I believe that they should face the full rigors of the law.
My spongers comment is meant to waken people to the very real possibility of the scandel being abused by unscruplious people (human nature).
Because my views may differ slightly from others I'm "brain washed" or talking rubbish - yeah great arguement! 

Myles your constant permarage on this subject is becoming tired.
What happened was WRONG and thankfully has been exposed AND people are now trying to find resolution to the situation, lets let them get on with it.

No problem whatsoever, GDA.
You are one of the more balanced posters on the board and I don't recall ever finding myself in total disagreement with you on any subject.
You may have noticed that I said you were being a bit harsh, not totally wrong or peddling bullsugar or anything like that.
At the present time, people on all sides are reacting with shock more than reason.
I don' think anyone is suggesting that what went on was not totally wrong and completely unacceptable in any civilised society but some will feel that it should not be a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Maybe when emotions settle down somewhat, a more reasoned consensus will emerge.
I think orangeman is right in thinking that people will start concentrating on the probable police investigations that will follow. I do think that reason should prevail and that the law must be allowed to run its course.

[longrunsthefox]

When the anger and attention comes off all this the heads of the Catholic Church  will be back pontificating and trying to tell us how to live or lives. A friend of mine often said when these stories broke and the church was under pressure, 'Keep your foot on their neck.' Wise words as far the most part with their leaders are only sorry to be exposed again. 

[Main Street]

When the anger and attention comes off all this the heads of the Catholic Church  will be back pontificating and trying to tell us how to live or lives.

If you are not a Catholic, why let the teachings of the Catholic Church bother you about how you lead your personal life?

[longrunsthefox]

When the anger and attention comes off all this the heads of the Catholic Church  will be back pontificating and trying to tell us how to live or lives.

If you are not a Catholic, why let the teachings of the Catholic Church bother you about how you lead your personal life?

I was in the traditional sense-going to Mass etc-and I do find it grating they continue to tell people how to behave with their track record. They would love to take control of people again through fear but is important that is not allowed to happen. 

[Main Street]

When the anger and attention comes off all this the heads of the Catholic Church  will be back pontificating and trying to tell us how to live or lives.

If you are not a Catholic, why let the teachings of the Catholic Church bother you about how you lead your personal life?

I was in the traditional sense-going to Mass etc-and I do find it grating they continue to tell people how to behave with their track record. They would love to take control of people again through fear but is important that is not allowed to happen. 

Longrunsthefox, you used the term "us"  "trying to tell us how to live or lives".  As you are no longer a Catholic, why would the teaching of the Catholic Church have any concern for you directly or even faintly indirectly?
The teachings of the Catholic Church are a matter for their members.
Should they do "pontificating and trying to tell us how to live or lives",  that has no relevance to you or your life.
If you let it bother you, then it is your choice.

[longrunsthefox]

You're probably rite... is like scraping shit from your shoe, can be hard to clean it off completly   

[mylestheslasher]

It's quite apparent that many strident opponents of the Catholic Church have no interest in listening or trying to appreciate any viewpoint they don't agree with.

Quite.

Lar, I'm not making excuses for the church, just trying to balance the views expressed on here.
I'll state my views on this subject AGAIN. My total sympathy and sorrow goes towards the victims, my total anger, resentment and hatred goes towards the perpetrators of these heinous crimes and I believe that they should face the full rigors of the law.
My spongers comment is meant to waken people to the very real possibility of the scandel being abused by unscruplious people (human nature).
Because my views may differ slightly from others I'm "brain washed" or talking rubbish - yeah great arguement! 

Myles your constant permarage on this subject is becoming tired.
What happened was WRONG and thankfully has been exposed AND people are now trying to find resolution to the situation, lets let them get on with it.

Thats a great opinion. Unfortunately it is only one of many aspects of the whole dirty scandal. May I inquire your opinion on the remainder of the issues (that is if you have not become over tired with my repeating of the facts of this report in the hope it might sink into some peoples sculls)

1) You say those responsible should be held to account in a court of law. I agree 100%. However, what do think should happen to those that ran these institutions, knew about what was going on and did nothing. Remember the report says abuse was endemic and systematic which implies that pretty much every knew and most took part. By those that knew I mean the head honchos inside the "schools" and indeed those outside - many of who now make "mealy mouthed" apologies to borrow a phrase of one of the victims. My problem is that these people will never be tried for anything yet are equally as responsible as the sicko bastards that carried out the abuse. My opinion is that the church is responsible for this, not just a few bad apples. Do you not agree?
2) The orders that inflicted this own a conservative estimate of 15 billion in wealth of one sort or another. They have committed to pay 128million in compensation to the victims. The state have to pay the remainder (i.e. the taxpayer). The total compensation is extimated to be about 1.2 billion euro, leaving joe soap to pay 10 times what the church does. Do you think that is a fair proportion. I think the church should pay 90% of the damage but 50:50 would also be a step in the right direction. Do you think it is fair that the church should be allowed to voluntarily increase the amount by a degree they come up with themselves (i.e. the criminal setting his own sentance) or do think the state should force the church to fork out a fari amount. Maybe you think 10% is a fair amount?
3) What do you think of the churches response over the past 10 years to the commission. The Christian brothers took legal action to prevent names being named. All the orders fought the victims tooth and nail all the way suggesting they were spongers, liars etc. Many withheld documents or hid them in Rome. The sister of mercy refuse today to speak to the family of a 10month old baby that died under mysterious circumstances in their care. Victims were aggressively questioned by solicitors of the church, they were asked questions such as to tell how big the abusers penis was. These questions came from organisations who knew they were guilty but still proceeded to put victims through more pain. Tell me do you think the well being of the victims was their concern or the survival or their own little institutions? Many priests were interviewed and refused to give any evidence. But the truth gets out and we get apologies from these same people. Do you believe the apologies are genuine? I certainly don't.
4) What do you think of CORI's statement pretty much telling the rest of the church to butt out of their business? This from Fr Healy champion of the needy, he who gets the special position of advising on government policy. Do you think that CORI are correct in saying this? Do you think they should be allowed to stay in the social partnership while they speak like this and refuse to increase monies towards compensation.

Perhaps some of the you that have been defending the church could answer the above because I am genuinely interested to know your opinions on them.

[Maguire01]

I have not heard anyone here tell tales of "good stories" from the religious orders, but I have heard and know numerous (sp) tales from people that say different, they were educated and looked after by religious instituitions and were better for it.

Yeah lets demonise the Catholic Church (suits alot of agendas), the people on here procrastinating about all things Catholic, do you really give a shite or is it just about getting a dig in?

This isn't the place to tell 'good stories'. This thread shouldn't be about trying to balance out the revelations of this report with the good things the Church has done.
The fact that the Church has done good things is totally irrelevant to the victims.

It's quite apparent that many strident opponents of the Catholic Church have no interest in listening or trying to appreciate any viewpoint they don't agree with.

Yes, you'll have the same posters who will be vocal about this and other such stories relating to the Church. But you'll also get the other posters, like yourself, using the above argument to try and undermine the credibility of those posters.

[The Boy Wonder]

To Magurie01:  No -  I am not trying to undermine the the views of anyone when I question the motives of anti-Cathoclic Church posters. Even the staunchest ally of the Catholic Church will not try to defend the accusations against the Church in the Ryan Report. I have read and accept many genuine and constructive criticisms of my Church recently.

I have a huge problem with how the Ryan Report is being used for a no-holds-barrred attack on my Church - please remember that lay people comprise majority membership of the Catholic Church. When good works (e.g. ministering to the sick and dying) are denied then it is time to call the cirtics' bluff.

Back in the bad old days of the conflict in Northenn Ireland one was accused of being a fellow-traveller if one expressed any views deemed sympathetic to the Nationalist population in the 6-counties. Today I would be honoured to be called a fellow-traveller of the Cathoclic Church.

Myles is an unfortunate by-product of the total access that the internet allows. This guy (maybe he is a crank) deems himself judge and jury on all matters relating to the current controversy. If he is genuine then I suggest he refrains from posting for a day or two. Maybe this might encourage some fair-minded posters to contribute constructive comment.

[mylestheslasher]

To Magurie01:  No -  I am not trying to undermine the the views of anyone when I question the motives of anti-Cathoclic Church posters. Even the staunchest ally of the Catholic Church will not try to defend the accusations against the Church in the Ryan Report. I have read and accept many genuine and constructive criticisms of my Church recently.

I have a huge problem with how the Ryan Report is being used for a no-holds-barrred attack on my Church - please remember that lay people comprise majority membership of the Catholic Church. When good works (e.g. ministering to the sick and dying) are denied then it is time to call the cirtics' bluff.

Back in the bad old days of the conflict in Northenn Ireland one was accused of being a fellow-traveller if one expressed any views deemed sympathetic to the Nationalist population in the 6-counties. Today I would be honoured to be called a fellow-traveller of the Cathoclic Church.

Myles is an unfortunate by-product of the total access that the internet allows. This guy (maybe he is a crank) deems himself judge and jury on all matters relating to the current controversy. If he is genuine then I suggest he refrains from posting for a day or two. Maybe this might encourage some fair-minded posters to contribute constructive comment.

Any chance you might address the questions above that I posted instead of waffling around the issue? The internet allows total access and that is a good thing as it makes it impossible to bury very important reports like the ryan report.

[mylestheslasher]

Jaysus, I thought some of ye defenders of the church would at least make an attempt at my questions above. The silence is deafening.