The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Eamonnca1]

At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

The individual mandate was an incentive for everyone to buy insurance and hence increase the risk pool. That part worked and the number of uninsured has plummeted. They considered putting in a public option but withdrew that in the interests of compromising with Republicans. (Not that you'd think there was any compromise, to listen to Fox News and their fanboys.)

There's a good explanation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

[whitey]

At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

The individual mandate was an incentive for everyone to buy insurance and hence increase the risk pool. That part worked and the number of uninsured has plummeted. They considered putting in a public option but withdrew that in the interests of compromising with Republicans. (Not that you'd think there was any compromise, to listen to Fox News and their fanboys.)

There's a good explanation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M

And people who already had insurance, in some cases saw their premiums jump from $17 K per year to close to $30 K.......you may remember Bill Clinton describing them as "the people humping it 60 hours a week.....their premiums have doubled and their coverage cut in half.....its the craziest thing ever!!!"

[Eamonnca1]

"These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006)."

Here's What's Happened to Health Care Costs in America in the Obama Years

[whitey]

"These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006)."

Here's What's Happened to Health Care Costs in America in the Obama Years

Lol....bbbbuuuuttttI thought Obama told me if I liked my healthcare and doctor I would be able to keep both and that premiums would come down by $2500 under Obamacare......how did that crock lf lies work out?

[Eamonnca1]

It went the same way as the "death panels."

[stew]

At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

[Eamonnca1]

Calm down, Stew.

[heganboy]

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Pros and cons of the ACA are legion. Any solution though is screwed in fairness. The states have a lot of discretion. Healthcare companies in the states are for profit. Despite what you read they didn't lose money, they made less money year on year. Healthcare companies got to choose what states the offered cover and as you are aware there is significant economic diversity across states. Premiums in certain situations soared especially the self employed, for the vast majority of people though health care became affordable, and for large corps their fees came down. The self employed do not benefit from collective bargaining, nor from ACA protection so they took the brunt of the burden.

So, now you have a religious question, is it worth the cost to insure 20 million people. Macroeconomics say yes, but those affected say no, and so do small government folks, the insurance company share holders, the very wealthy, and consequently Republicans.

Strangely, areas with white people who were most likely to be positively impacted by the ACA, were most likely to want it repealed.

[easytiger95]

At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

[seafoid]

Both Parties are hopelessly corrupt. The Dems are still rational

[APM]

At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

The ever sadder part is that this is fairly symptomatic of US political life with voters taking entrenched positions and living in echo bubbles where all of their media is reinforcing these beliefs.  Support for political parties and ideologies is not based on thought out processes underpinned by advanced citizenship.  It is more akin to supporting a football team, where your team can do nothing wrong and the other team are a dirty, hateful shower of b***tids.   Not much different to the kind of politics we have in the six counties, only the ideology they are fighting over here is flags, parades and the past. People here are divided on stuff that doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things.  In America its healthcare, society and the economy.

The media (right wing in particular), commentators, politicians and interest groups there have done a fantastic job at segmenting people on the grounds of liberal versus conservative and people have been sucked into believing they are on the right side.  Anyone that allows themselves to be labelled, or uses these labels to define others is buying into this system and exacerbating divisiveness. I see it here daily from people on both sides of the political spectrum.

On the right wing in particular, there is a form of political brainwashing going on. This has been getting gradully worse over the last 20 years and I don't know how whole sections of society people will step back from these entrenched positions without some major event.  It is almost like some sort of jolt is required to pull people from this very skewed thinking which ignores logic and evidence in favour of agenda and ideaology. 

Stew, I have lurked on this board for years and have always found you to be a fascinating character.  I have wondered, how someone who has grown up in Armagh during the troubles and who must surely understand what it is like to be marginalised, can appear to support those who advocate policies that would be more at home with the Vanguard Unionists of the 1970s. 

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Fascinating book review on a biography of James McGill Buchannan, architect of the right's strategy to undermine confidence in the institutions of government to pave the way for lower taxes on the wealthy, privatize schools, destroy social security, etc...   

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/books/review/democracy-in-chains-nancy-maclean.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fbooks&action=click&contentCollection=books&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=54&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0

[stew]

At the risk of lighting a touchpaper, How was Obama care supposed to work? 

Did it mean that everyone was supposed to able to  buy health insurance?  I thought it was a form of NHS/HSE healthcare?  Was it?

It was supposed to be Universal healthcare, everyone was supposed to have it, Obama had noble intentions but they simply ram stammed it home and promises were made that you could keep your current GP/ Neurologists to push it trough, that was not the case and Obama lied to the people.

You got fined if you did not buy insurance and the younger you were the more of the burden you were going t carry over your lifetime, in other words the young carried the old under Obamacare.

If you were unemployed and at the lower end of the financial spectrum you got help and in fairness millions did benefit from it, the insurance companies started losing money and a lot of HMO's pull the plug in certain States. it is and was a monumental undertaking however the disastrous rollout for me encapsulated the Obama Presidency in a nutshell.

The companies that did not up stakes increased their premium year over year on average 53%, depending on who you listen to, sadly I see no end to the Obamacare debacle as the Republicans are just as inept and clueless and the Dems were ad that is bad news for the American people.

No it wasn't.

The fact that you are so angry at about something you clearly do not understand is the Republican voter mindset personified.

I am not angry about anything to do with Obamacare, I had the absolute best healthcare a man could want for his family and I merely offered my opinion on Obamacare[/b].

WTF are you on about? What am I angry about now ffs?

It wasn't meant to be universal health care. The ACA is actually a compromise bill, based on the Romneycare Massachusetts model. That Republican format was forced on Obama by the GOP initially, who were allowed and encouraged to participate in drawing up the bill. So after he had moved rightwards, after the Republicans had tabled hundreds of amendments that were considered during the committee stage, after they had blocked the government providing a public option for private insurance, which would have forced all insurance companies to price competitively or go out of business (of course the insurance companies spent millions lobbying the GOP to make sure that happened), the Republicans walked away from it and still didn't vote for it. Obama's big mistake was in not pushing the public option once it was clear that the GOP were engaging in sabotage rather than negotiation.

It was billed as Universal healthcare when it was being promoted by the left, that is a fact.

And then they push the line that it was "rammed" through, despite a full 10 months consideration, and complete adherence to parliamentary precedent. And people like you lap that up, throw out figures like 53% premium rises that you can't back up, and even if there was rises of that size, that is what the subsidies are there for. Of course, if there was a public option, those subsidies would not be needed in their present volume.

A simple google search will back me up, the fact HMOs left Obamacare will back me up.

So you post online, in sadness and rage about a subject that, objectively, given that you think Obamacare was a failed attempt at universal healthcare, you don't even understand. You don't use unbiased sources, you don't do the maths, you don't consider the policy, and all you give us on this board is incoherent, primal screams about corrupt Dems - which has basically been the Republican manifesto since the American people had the temerity to put a black man in the Oval office.

I did not post anything in sadness nor rage ffs!

I have met less than five people who I would consider racists who commented on Obama being black with any tainted or warped feelings, two of them were liberals albeit elderly.

Republicans, no matter how much you bleat about race are not racists, you are ignorant on this subject easytiger, f**king ignorant!

Stew, I have no doubt that you met some Dems you thought were corrupt. That does not mean that all Dems are corrupt, or that Hillary was corrupt or that their policies are corrupt.

Hillary is the epitome of corruption, if you cannot see that you are either stupid or in denial, you are in denial in my opinion and I am being kind.

Republicans, on health care, tax reform, environmental issues - in fact everything that would matter to you, as a citizen (former, I know) in your daily life, long ago sacrificed compassion and the public good to crazed, discredited, trickledown, Darwinian, market worshipping ideology - which is nothing more than a beard to disguise the fact that donors pay Republicans to make sure those donors get more money.

Are you kidding me? Americans are capitalists and capitalism has been the single greatest economic power the world has ever seen, you know absolutely f**k all about the American right, you equate people who want people to earn their corn and pay their way with people who do not care about others, that is simply not true, they simply want those who are fit to work to do so, to pay their taxes and contribute to society as a whole, wtf is wrong with that.

I don't mind that you're angry that you're being screwed - but you don't even know who by. And that is sad.

I was screwed by nobody, you have no idea how blessed I was and how successful in life I was during my time living in Green Bay, I have not one thing to be angry about on a personal level save my abject disgust at the slimy, repugnant left I will despise to my dying day, you presume to know me and you do not, I have had the sum total of one GAA board member in my life in my home in the states, we got on well there even though his politics and mine are poles apart, he got a snippet of who I am, plenty of others from Armagh know me and few would agree with me but so what, it is a discussion board for facks sake, I do take umbridge at you presuming to know me because you clearly do not, I will never presume to know you.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

And what a great host you were.

I'll never forget the generosity.

[Eamonnca1]

A notoriously red state still trying to stop dark-skinned people from voting. No surprise there...

Courts repeatedly chastise Texas for voting-rights violations

The Lone Star state has been upbraided ten times in six years for discriminating against black and Hispanic voters

TEXAS has not had a good time of it this month in federal court. Four times in a fortnight, a federal judge has determined that the state legislature discriminated against black and Hispanic voters by drawing up electoral maps or voter-ID requirements that—by design, effect or both—reduce minority influence in the voting booth.

Ken Paxton, Texas's defiant attorney-general, promises to appeal what he calls "outrageous" rulings. But the string of defeats tells a tale of race-tinged Republican electoral hardball that may earn America's second-largest state a stint in the dog-house. The Voting Rights Act (VRA) is far from what it once was, thanks to the Supreme Court's 2013 ruling in Shelby County v Holder gutting the law's requirement that certain states get approval from the Department of Justice before changing electoral rules. But the VRA's section 3(c) survives, providing that states caught discriminating intentionally could be put back under a "preclearance" requirement—and Texas's repeated shenanigans seem to fit that bill.

Full story