A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[seafoid]

If you go back in history to 1798 the United Irish men included catholics and Presbyterians neither of whom benefited from the status quo which was set up for church of Ireland prods. Wolfe Tone was Protestant for example.
The authorities panicked and brought in the 1801 act of union which extended Benefits to presbyterians.
By the time 1848 rolled around Presbyterians had no incentive to ally theselves with catholics.
This was reinforced in the 1910s and 1920s and the dynamic led to the establishment of Norn Irn which at the time had a strong economy. Economics was the key influence. Aligning with the British was lucrative.
If the country was being divided today NI would not be rich enough to secede  .

The historic arrangement is only 220 years old and the UK economy is banjaxed. So is the NI economy.

The strategic rationale for a continuation of NI is not clear. Maybe the leaders could join a few dots to change the dynamic but Stormont is blocked and no big decisions are being made.

Unbelievable Jeff.

[BennyCake]

We all know that dyed in the wool " loyalist unionists" won't go near the GAA or the Irish Language or anything that might mildly snack if being distinctly Irish.
However that's still no reason for GAA clubs allowing their premises to be used by 1 political party.
Again there's no need in 2018 for GAA Cubs to be flying the Tricolour compulsorily or for murdering the Anthem before every half baked game.
"Outreaching" to moderate or apolitical Protestants or other pro union people should be encouraged.

Yes, but not at the expense of our own community.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

However that's still no reason for GAA clubs allowing their premises to be used by 1 political party.

Yes, but not at the expense of our own community.

A couple of genuine questions Benny, from a "free stater" who maybe one of those that "doesn't understand":

Would communities or their pursuit of their identity through our national games be adversely impacted by Ulster GAA clubs not hosting republican/Sinn Féin events? 
If they avoid hosting tournaments/events that have names/medals of any participants in the most recent troubles?

/Jim.

[seafoid]

We all know that dyed in the wool " loyalist unionists" won't go near the GAA or the Irish Language or anything that might mildly snack if being distinctly Irish.  I
However that's still no reason for GAA clubs allowing their premises to be used by 1 political party.
Again there's no need in 2018 for GAA Cubs to be flying the Tricolour compulsorily or for murdering the Anthem before every half baked game.
"Outreaching" to moderate or apolitical Protestants or other pro union people should be encouraged.

John Robb saw the writing on the wall and  spent years trying to engage other unionists. Nothing happened.  The only thing likely to change minds is economics.

[johnnycool]

We all know that dyed in the wool " loyalist unionists" won't go near the GAA or the Irish Language or anything that might mildly snack if being distinctly Irish.
However that's still no reason for GAA clubs allowing their premises to be used by 1 political party.
Again there's no need in 2018 for GAA Cubs to be flying the Tricolour compulsorily or for murdering the Anthem before every half baked game.
"Outreaching" to moderate or apolitical Protestants or other pro union people should be encouraged.

Not sure of the Davitts circumstances and how or what way they funded their club premises, but if they were in receipt of funding from the various bodies in the north they have to make their facilities available to all sections of the community and that would include the Shinners.

If the loyalist knee breakers also wanted to book their facilities then the Davitts couldn't prevent them.

GAA facilities the length and breadth of Ireland have been used by political parties, so no biggie IMO.

[naka]

Do we then have a mass renaming of GAA clubs so that Unionists (majority of whom will not care for the GAA either way) or can we not just promote and educate as much as possible without the need to change the name of one "offensive" hurling club in north derry?

It's only a small number of clubs and competitions that are questionable. A good start would be a rule that says any new club can't be named after anyone that was notable for political or politically motivated activity within the last fifty years. Robert Emmet and James Connoly would be fine, Bobby Sands would not. Later, hopefully after more protestants come on board, we could expand the rule and make it retrospective to cover existing clubs and competitions.

Eamonnca,
that's a very southern view of the history of the island of Ireland( you can`t airbrush partition and romanticise 1916 and demonise events in the north since then) , I am not a dyed in the wool republican but Bobby Sands was a poet, leader and an MP voted for by a fair amount of people,I see no difference in him and james Connolly, in fact at death Sands had a mandate, which was more than Connolly and Pearce had.

lets be blunt about it, the GAA in a nationalist organisation with its roots in ensuring the culture of Ireland is maintained, most unionists rightly or wrongly in the North see it as that, for me I have no issues with their view and respect it..

[Keyser soze]

There is a section of civic unionism that is happy to interact with the Gaa, I know of clubs that do a lot of outreach and have non nationalists playing for them. Having said that I dont see why the flag cannot be flown regardless, people who want to reach across the divide recognise that our allegiance is to the flag as opposed to their allegiance to the Union flag. If it were not so there would be no divide needing crossed.

Gaa premises should not be used for political purposes.

[Rossfan]

"Outreaching" to moderate or apolitical Protestants or other pro union people should be encouraged.

Yes, but not at the expense of our own community.

Ní thuigim.
Please explain???

[MoChara]

There is a section of civic unionism that is happy to interact with the Gaa, I know of clubs that do a lot of outreach and have non nationalists playing for them. Having said that I dont see why the flag cannot be flown regardless, people who want to reach across the divide recognise that our allegiance is to the flag as opposed to their allegiance to the Union flag. If it were not so there would be no divide needing crossed.

Gaa premises should not be used for political purposes.

Tricky bit with this is where does history and culture stop and politics begin, obviously if its a brazen platform for how great a party are, its obvious, but say a historical talk about having to struggle to set up a GAA club in an orange state, it's clearly all 3.

[BennyCake]

"Outreaching" to moderate or apolitical Protestants or other pro union people should be encouraged.

Yes, but not at the expense of our own community.

Ní thuigim.
Please explain???

Well, time, money and effort spent pandering to unionists for little return. We should be focusing on improving structures, facilities, coaches etc already there for locals. The gaa is immersed in Irish culture, language, identity etc, so a lot of unionists don't relate to that and never will no matter what is done.

I'm not saying don't reach out to unionists, but our priority is our local kids, local schools etc. The people whose identity is an Irish one and who will be connectd to the gaa all their lives.

[seafoid]

Instead of the GAA changing NI needs institutions and movements that transcend political divisions.

This is US related but similar

"The US needs "some sort of synthesis on the larger postindustrial/populism war. Over a century ago industrialisation brought on culture clash between agrarian populist and the genteel Victoria aristocrats.  Theodore Roosevelt transcended the fight by inventing a new kind of American nationalism. Meanwhile the progressives cleaned up elite corruption and nurtured a square deal for those left behind by technological change. Cultural leaders introduced new institutions and community forms like the Boy Scouts and the settlement house that drew from both cultures replaced them.  Today we need another grand synthesis that can move us beyond the current divide, a synthesis that is neither redneck nor hipster but draws from both worlds to create a new social vision . Progress on guns will be possible when the culture war subsides, not before. "

[Rossfan]

"Outreaching" to moderate or apolitical Protestants or other pro union people should be encouraged.

Yes, but not at the expense of our own community.

Ní thuigim.
Please explain???

Well, time, money and effort spent pandering to unionists for little return. We should be focusing on improving structures, facilities, coaches etc already there for locals. The gaa is immersed in Irish culture, language, identity etc, so a lot of unionists don't relate to that and never will no matter what is done.

I'm not saying don't reach out to unionists, but our priority is our local kids, local schools etc. The people whose identity is an Irish one and who will be connectd to the gaa all their lives.

Local Catholic schools and local Catholic children only then?

[Orchard park]

there are huge swathes of nationalist kids in both Derry and Belfast not in the gaa fold, surely the aim should be get all our own first before licking the holes of any loyalist knackers to play GAA

[Minder]

there are huge swathes of nationalist kids in both Derry and Belfast not in the gaa fold, surely the aim should be get all our own first before licking the holes of any loyalist knackers to play GAA

I was just gonna post the same thing

[ned]

Trevor Ringland was on BBC last night. The jist of what he said was "I had no problem playing rugby for Ireland and representing the Irish flag and national anthem but I did not represent the Irish flag and anthem promoted by the IRA". Didn't agree with all he said but there lies the main problem. He could see the symbols for what they represent and mean, most unionists can't and abhor these because it's what they have learned without any great reasoning.
Any dilution of our identity through the GAA is unwarranted. The world over streets, buildings, sports stadia, etc are named after political or military people. Leave these as they are, that is not our problem to contend with.