Mayo V Sligo - Connaught senior final - July 15th

Started by sligoman2, June 25, 2012, 12:03:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

moysider

Quote from: saffronandblue on July 16, 2012, 06:13:35 PM
Two forward players gone from the panel in the form of Mortimer and Harte and still no sign of Kilcoyne coming back into the panel.  Very hard to believe when you see the performance of some of our forwards over the last 2 years never mind the last two games.  He must be considered as an option.  I know lads on the current panel cannot believe that he is not involved.

It has been preached to me on here that Horan was going to pick players on there current form.  Apart from Dillon, O' Connor, Moran and McLoughlin, when did these other forwards last have a half decent day out.  It is 2 years since some any of them had a decent game in a competitive match.

Our hopes rest with one Aiden O'Shea.  A bullock of a man and not since the 'bomber' Brogan have I seen a Mayo player who is quite capable of turning a game on his own.  Fair play to him for getting over the injury and for driving the team on yesterday.

Fixed that for you  ;)

Syferus

Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 04:03:23 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on July 16, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Awful game, despite Mayo's dominance this was a game they could easily have lost, dodgy point and gift of a free at the start of the 2nd half helped them along. Varley had a shocker, I can't see him keeping his place, Doherty wasn't a whole lot better and once again O'Connor proves he's no CHF. I hate to see the pulling down of players near the end of a match, it's negative in the extreme.

While we should avoid hanging lads out to dry the forwards are going to have to take a hit again.

We ve been trying to understand tactics and stuff but in the case of at least one forward yesterday the problem is pure and simply lack of quality. It s not going to improve and Horan is kidding himself if he persists.

We re not really playing with a CHF so O Connor going inside is not going to affect the hf line much. McLoughlin and Dillon are responsible for most craft and guile around there anyway. The thing is will O Con be an improvement inside anyway? I suspect we ll find out the next day. We have to because yesterday s stuff cannot be repeated. If O Connor had pace you could go with 2 inside. Maybe that s the way to go anyway? 2 from Andy and Conroy/Cillian. Andy has to stay inside cause nobody else can win ball and use it ( though I can t understand why Sligo did not switch a rampant Ross Donavan onto him).

Harte missing limits the options for the half forward line but Freeman should be started here. A fit again SOS would give us options too. But it is not easy to see how we can get a balanced unit from what we have, with the shortcomings that have become glaring at this stage even though they have been obvious for some time.

Evan Regan has been injured and wasn t even togged. He s slight and he s young but likes of David Kelly is no monster. A fit Rean will have to leapfrog a couple of these forwards. He could be no worse and he probably be a lot better. As a forward if he s not good enough at 19 he probably never will be. Tyrone had no issue bringing young McCurry and throwing him in against Ross.

I don't know what planet you operate from but here on Earth very few players aged 19 show more than promise. Dumping them in at the deep end without much preparation is a recipe for stunting their growth. A few players swim but most need more time. That tells you nothing about how good they will eventually be as seniors. McCrory came on with the match well and truly over against us, I'd temper any hype about using that as an example if I were you.

moysider

#512
Quote from: Syferus on July 16, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 04:03:23 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on July 16, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Awful game, despite Mayo's dominance this was a game they could easily have lost, dodgy point and gift of a free at the start of the 2nd half helped them along. Varley had a shocker, I can't see him keeping his place, Doherty wasn't a whole lot better and once again O'Connor proves he's no CHF. I hate to see the pulling down of players near the end of a match, it's negative in the extreme.

While we should avoid hanging lads out to dry the forwards are going to have to take a hit again.

We ve been trying to understand tactics and stuff but in the case of at least one forward yesterday the problem is pure and simply lack of quality. It s not going to improve and Horan is kidding himself if he persists.

We re not really playing with a CHF so O Connor going inside is not going to affect the hf line much. McLoughlin and Dillon are responsible for most craft and guile around there anyway. The thing is will O Con be an improvement inside anyway? I suspect we ll find out the next day. We have to because yesterday s stuff cannot be repeated. If O Connor had pace you could go with 2 inside. Maybe that s the way to go anyway? 2 from Andy and Conroy/Cillian. Andy has to stay inside cause nobody else can win ball and use it ( though I can t understand why Sligo did not switch a rampant Ross Donavan onto him).

Harte missing limits the options for the half forward line but Freeman should be started here. A fit again SOS would give us options too. But it is not easy to see how we can get a balanced unit from what we have, with the shortcomings that have become glaring at this stage even though they have been obvious for some time.

Evan Regan has been injured and wasn t even togged. He s slight and he s young but likes of David Kelly is no monster. A fit Rean will have to leapfrog a couple of these forwards. He could be no worse and he probably be a lot better. As a forward if he s not good enough at 19 he probably never will be. Tyrone had no issue bringing young McCurry and throwing him in against Ross.

I don't know what planet you operate from but here on Earth very few players aged 19 show more than promise. Dumping them in at the deep end without much preparation is a recipe for stunting their growth. A few players swim but most need more time. That tells you nothing about how good they will eventually be as seniors. McCrory came on with the match well and truly over against us, I'd temper any hype about using that as an example if I were you.

Wind your smart tongue back in there sonny. Getting tiresome you butting in all the time. Oh and when you make a point to me you can drop 'planet earth' and smart-arse shite. It makes you seem like a less likable person than you usually come across as. Arrogant so and so.

The reality is that many of the top forwards all played championship 19/20. They might have been exceptional but right now we need something exceptional.


saffronandblue

Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 06:45:08 PM
Quote from: saffronandblue on July 16, 2012, 06:13:35 PM
Two forward players gone from the panel in the form of Mortimer and Harte and still no sign of Kilcoyne coming back into the panel.  Very hard to believe when you see the performance of some of our forwards over the last 2 years never mind the last two games.  He must be considered as an option.  I know lads on the current panel cannot believe that he is not involved.

It has been preached to me on here that Horan was going to pick players on there current form.  Apart from Dillon, O' Connor, Moran and McLoughlin, when did these other forwards last have a half decent day out.  It is 2 years since some any of them had a decent game in a competitive match.

Our hopes rest with one Aiden O'Shea.  A bullock of a man and not since the 'bomber' Brogan have I seen a Mayo player who is quite capable of turning a game on his own.  Fair play to him for getting over the injury and for driving the team on yesterday.

Fixed that for you  ;)

Your a real gent Moysider :)

Syferus

#514
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 07:27:37 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 16, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 04:03:23 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on July 16, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Awful game, despite Mayo's dominance this was a game they could easily have lost, dodgy point and gift of a free at the start of the 2nd half helped them along. Varley had a shocker, I can't see him keeping his place, Doherty wasn't a whole lot better and once again O'Connor proves he's no CHF. I hate to see the pulling down of players near the end of a match, it's negative in the extreme.

While we should avoid hanging lads out to dry the forwards are going to have to take a hit again.

We ve been trying to understand tactics and stuff but in the case of at least one forward yesterday the problem is pure and simply lack of quality. It s not going to improve and Horan is kidding himself if he persists.

We re not really playing with a CHF so O Connor going inside is not going to affect the hf line much. McLoughlin and Dillon are responsible for most craft and guile around there anyway. The thing is will O Con be an improvement inside anyway? I suspect we ll find out the next day. We have to because yesterday s stuff cannot be repeated. If O Connor had pace you could go with 2 inside. Maybe that s the way to go anyway? 2 from Andy and Conroy/Cillian. Andy has to stay inside cause nobody else can win ball and use it ( though I can t understand why Sligo did not switch a rampant Ross Donavan onto him).

Harte missing limits the options for the half forward line but Freeman should be started here. A fit again SOS would give us options too. But it is not easy to see how we can get a balanced unit from what we have, with the shortcomings that have become glaring at this stage even though they have been obvious for some time.

Evan Regan has been injured and wasn t even togged. He s slight and he s young but likes of David Kelly is no monster. A fit Rean will have to leapfrog a couple of these forwards. He could be no worse and he probably be a lot better. As a forward if he s not good enough at 19 he probably never will be. Tyrone had no issue bringing young McCurry and throwing him in against Ross.

I don't know what planet you operate from but here on Earth very few players aged 19 show more than promise. Dumping them in at the deep end without much preparation is a recipe for stunting their growth. A few players swim but most need more time. That tells you nothing about how good they will eventually be as seniors. McCrory came on with the match well and truly over against us, I'd temper any hype about using that as an example if I were you.

Wind your smart tongue back in there sonny. Getting tiresome you butting in all the time. Oh and when you make a point to me you can drop 'planet earth' and smart-arse shite. It makes you seem like a less likable person than you usually come across as. Arrogant so and so.

The reality is that many of the top forwards all played championship 19/20. They might have been exceptional but right now we need something exceptional.

Pot n' kettle. Don't throw stones in plexiglass houses. Choose your cliche, it applies.

It was an absolutely incredible thing to say if a player isn't good enough at 19 he's likely never to be. You could ream list upon list of players who only ever hit their strides in theit 3rd and 4th years - or more - and who before that they were viewed as role players, your own Andy Moran being a perfect example of a player who has become All-Ireland class as he's approached 30. It was a seriously dismissive thing to say about teenaged amateur footballers and hence why you got a few shots across the bow for your trouble. This isn't the Man Utd. academy, players need patience and plenty of work at senior before they're written off, and you've got neither if you're 19 and on a senior panel.

moysider

Quote from: Syferus on July 16, 2012, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 07:27:37 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 16, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 16, 2012, 04:03:23 PM
Quote from: Mac2 on July 16, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
Awful game, despite Mayo's dominance this was a game they could easily have lost, dodgy point and gift of a free at the start of the 2nd half helped them along. Varley had a shocker, I can't see him keeping his place, Doherty wasn't a whole lot better and once again O'Connor proves he's no CHF. I hate to see the pulling down of players near the end of a match, it's negative in the extreme.

While we should avoid hanging lads out to dry the forwards are going to have to take a hit again.

We ve been trying to understand tactics and stuff but in the case of at least one forward yesterday the problem is pure and simply lack of quality. It s not going to improve and Horan is kidding himself if he persists.

We re not really playing with a CHF so O Connor going inside is not going to affect the hf line much. McLoughlin and Dillon are responsible for most craft and guile around there anyway. The thing is will O Con be an improvement inside anyway? I suspect we ll find out the next day. We have to because yesterday s stuff cannot be repeated. If O Connor had pace you could go with 2 inside. Maybe that s the way to go anyway? 2 from Andy and Conroy/Cillian. Andy has to stay inside cause nobody else can win ball and use it ( though I can t understand why Sligo did not switch a rampant Ross Donavan onto him).

Harte missing limits the options for the half forward line but Freeman should be started here. A fit again SOS would give us options too. But it is not easy to see how we can get a balanced unit from what we have, with the shortcomings that have become glaring at this stage even though they have been obvious for some time.

Evan Regan has been injured and wasn t even togged. He s slight and he s young but likes of David Kelly is no monster. A fit Rean will have to leapfrog a couple of these forwards. He could be no worse and he probably be a lot better. As a forward if he s not good enough at 19 he probably never will be. Tyrone had no issue bringing young McCurry and throwing him in against Ross.

I don't know what planet you operate from but here on Earth very few players aged 19 show more than promise. Dumping them in at the deep end without much preparation is a recipe for stunting their growth. A few players swim but most need more time. That tells you nothing about how good they will eventually be as seniors. McCrory came on with the match well and truly over against us, I'd temper any hype about using that as an example if I were you.

Wind your smart tongue back in there sonny. Getting tiresome you butting in all the time. Oh and when you make a point to me you can drop 'planet earth' and smart-arse shite. It makes you seem like a less likable person than you usually come across as. Arrogant so and so.

The reality is that many of the top forwards all played championship 19/20. They might have been exceptional but right now we need something exceptional.

Pot n' kettle. Don't throw stones in plexiglass houses. Choose your cliche, it applies.
It was an absolutely incredible thing to say if a player isn't good enough at 19 he's likely never to be. You could ream list upon list of players who only ever hit their strides in theit 3rd and 4th years - or more - and who before that they were viewed as role players, your own Andy Moran being a perfect example of a player who has become All-Ireland class as he's approached 30. It was a seriously dismissive thing to say about teenaged amateur footballers and hence why you got a few shots across the bow for your trouble. This isn't the Man Utd. academy, players need patience and plenty of work at senior before they're written off, and you've got neither if you're 19 and on a senior panel.

Nither cliche applies. Don t ever remember trying to give you a lesson in astronomy.

I was talking about a certain forward ( not a midfielder or defender ) that I think is better at 19 than some of our older forwards on the panel. Several forwards have been good enough to play at 19 in the past and I think he might be too. Some of our current players were not good enough at 19 but they re still not good enough mid 20s and wont be either I m afraid. Many forwards are already there at 19/20 and unfortunately many that are not never are. I m talking about forwards. Andy was never considered an out and out forward early and has played wing back. As a kid he was used as a ball winner and link player. The type of player I m talking about is an inside forward scoregetter. A specialist.

TyrionLannister

Nerve racking game yesterday, Mayo made awful hard work of it. Overall I would be relatively happy with the win, considering the pressure that was put on Mayo by this weeks antics. 

Our defence was Ok in general but I thought the Mayo half back line struggled a bit. Bolye and Keegan were poor in possession, and both kicked away the ball too much, either straight to the opposition or out over the sideline. Mayo also seemed to lose a lot of breaks in the second half and it was the Sligo half forwards that were doing the damage. Would liked to have seen Richie Feeney come in to see could he settle things. Clarke was solid as a rock.

Barry Moran continues to defy critics and was brilliant all day. Geraghty did his job but Aidan definitely lifted things when he came in. 

Up front the forwards had a bad day, bar Dillon. O Connor flourished when he finally went inside from centre forward towards the end of the game. He is far happier in there. I think that Mayo's best attack would be to have O Se at centre forward allowing him to do what he did yesterday and run at defences, and link up the play. He could also be a another option for kickouts. Freeman and Conroy also had an instant positive effect when they were introduced.

Based on yesterday, for the quarters I would like to see:
McLoughlin, O Se, Dillon
Conroy, Andy, O Connor

You could always bring in Freeman at FF or CF and push O Se to the middle if our midfield tired, or was struggling. I would seriously consider starting Feeney too. 

western exile

Quote from: TyrionLannister on July 16, 2012, 08:41:08 PM
Nerve racking game yesterday, Mayo made awful hard work of it. Overall I would be relatively happy with the win, considering the pressure that was put on Mayo by this weeks antics.

Our defence was Ok in general but I thought the Mayo half back line struggled a bit. Bolye and Keegan were poor in possession, and both kicked away the ball too much, either straight to the opposition or out over the sideline. Mayo also seemed to lose a lot of breaks in the second half and it was the Sligo half forwards that were doing the damage. Would liked to have seen Richie Feeney come in to see could he settle things. Clarke was solid as a rock.

Barry Moran continues to defy critics and was brilliant all day. Geraghty did his job but Aidan definitely lifted things when he came in.

Up front the forwards had a bad day, bar Dillon. O Connor flourished when he finally went inside from centre forward towards the end of the game. He is far happier in there. I think that Mayo's best attack would be to have O Se at centre forward allowing him to do what he did yesterday and run at defences, and link up the play. He could also be a another option for kickouts. Freeman and Conroy also had an instant positive effect when they were introduced.

Based on yesterday, for the quarters I would like to see:
McLoughlin, O Se, Dillon
Conroy, Andy, O Connor

You could always bring in Freeman at FF or CF and push O Se to the middle if our midfield tired, or was struggling. I would seriously consider starting Feeney too.

+1

ross4life

Between 2005-2012 no other province in Ireland gets close when it come to competitive,tight,tense finals. The outsiders looking in will say Connacht titles are easy to win. Yesterday was the first in 15 years that Mayo retained Nestor while we were told "sure you only beat Sligo in final" i'm sure after yesterday Mayo fans saw first hand how difficult Sligo are to beat in a Connacht final.

Mayo won't be fearing any of the possible quarter final opponents. Horan is doing what any decent manager should do, building his team from the back they will be difficult to beat but lack of scoring forwards means they will come up short in the race for Sam.

For Sligo it all depends on their appetite for the qualifiers, on form they are capable of beating Limerick or Kildare.
The key to success is to be consistently competitive -- if you bang on the door often it will open

Farrandeelin

OK, Lar and Drummer. In the O'Mahony years Mayo would have lost that game. That's all I'm saying. Why the hell I brought 'Mortimer's club' into it is anybody's guess ;D, but let's just say there were a few Shrule men on the panel at that time. I'm having a go at O'Mahony more than anything and last night I was pretty tired when I was writing so the sentence managed to 'drift off' as did I later on in the night!

Positives, AOS and Barry Moran. As Eugene McGee said Aiden O'Shea brought brains to the middle area. Now I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying Aiden O'Shea has no brain, will never learn etc, by Jesus we needed him yesterday and his presence was the turning point. Also the backs, my Roscommon relatives couldn't understand how the performance of Kelly and Marren had dropped so considerably. However, this defensive unit is as good as any if only we had a few forwards that could score.

Negatives, well I did say there would be only a point or two in it at the end didn't I! And that's precisely what happened. However, Mayo's forwards made it that way because to be honest, they simply aren't good enough. Doherty and Varley who started, not good. Conroy and Freeman who went on, despite Conroy's attempt to have a go, still not great impact subs and other backlines wouldn't quake in their boots when facing them. Another negative, moreso a worry is that Cillian O'Connor, last year's player of the year hasn't done it at no 11. Whether Horan has finally seen that at this stage is another thing. Maybe it's just a second season syndrome thing with Cillian, I hope so.

Also, Kilcoyne is in England working. He's not available either. Just coming home for the rest of Knockmore's championship games is all he'll be doing this year I'm afraid. It's a pity but what can one do in these times.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

ross matt

Mayo teams of the recent past would have lost that final and last year's one against us. They won ugly but credit has to go to Sligo for putting them under so much constant pressure. Mayo will definitely improve for the quarterfinal just as they did last year. They are now a modern well organised panel. Not as entertaining to watch but much more effective. Best of luck to them. Genuinley hope they do well. Same goes for Sligo.

Turlough O Carolan

Congrats to Mayo and Andy Moran. Tough luck to Sligo who had the winning of this. Costello on a few moves and Kelly on one occasion took the wrong option when a simple pass would have yielded a point. All the hop balls due to collapsed scrums were a disaster for Sligo because the ref might as well have handed the ball to Barry Moran such was his dominance there. The point that was not and another was dubious too. Indeed the town end umpire thought about giving Mayo even another. Mayo's backs are impressive and very comfortable under high ball and indeed Sligo kept them fed but not enough cutting edge in the forwards. That was very evident in league final but backs will keep them competitive against most teams. Despite all the criticism, the Hyde was in nice shape this weekend. The only criticism from a bunch of Mayomen around me was all the spiders in the stand, which must have brought them good luck.

Syferus

Quote from: ross4life on July 16, 2012, 09:23:52 PM
Between 2005-2012 no other province in Ireland gets close when it come to competitive,tight,tense finals. The outsiders looking in will say Connacht titles are easy to win. Yesterday was the first in 15 years that Mayo retained Nestor while we were told "sure you only beat Sligo in final" i'm sure after yesterday Mayo fans saw first hand how difficult Sligo are to beat in a Connacht final.

Mayo won't be fearing any of the possible quarter final opponents. Horan is doing what any decent manager should do, building his team from the back they will be difficult to beat but lack of scoring forwards means they will come up short in the race for Sam.

For Sligo it all depends on their appetite for the qualifiers, on form they are capable of beating Limerick or Kildare.

Alot of people were down on the game but I thought it was an enjoyable and at times exciting contest, full-contact stuff where you could tell neither team hadn't a single notion of just going through the motions. Not one for purists but I'd prefer a tight, tense game over most of what we've got on tv so far this year.

Drummer

Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 16, 2012, 09:26:05 PM
OK, Lar and Drummer. In the O'Mahony years Mayo would have lost that game. That's all I'm saying. Why the hell I brought 'Mortimer's club' into it is anybody's guess ;D, but let's just say there were a few Shrule men on the panel at that time.

Well Farrandeelin, it's worth pointing out that there were just as many, if not more, Knockmore players knocking around during the same period i.e. McLoughlin, Howley, Kilcoyne, Munnelly.   So I wouldn't be so quick to blame S/G players for failures during O'Mahony's time in charge.  In fact I wouldn't point the finger at any individual player or group of players in relation to those losses.  If the same system and style of play was in place during those years as we currently have then it's likely results would have been alot different. 

It's also worth pointing out that "there were a few Shrule men on the panel" on plenty of occasions during the 00s when Mayo displayed the grit and spirit required to win big games, games which were significantly more important than last Sunday.  So I think you should give a bit more thought in future before making such lazy and uninformed comments about a club who have served Mayo teams as prominently as any other club during the last 15 years or so.

Barney

Delighted with the win.

James Horan is doing a fantastic job, and the players really are giving their all. This is the best Mayo team in 15 years.

Think we will probably come up short this year since we just don't have the top class forwards to bring us over the line. But if we keep working at things we may get the break in the next 2/3 years.