Teachers get it handy!

[Milltown Row2]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

[JimStynes]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

I can only comment on the last 11 years but it's always been like that in my time of teaching. I taught in a school were 26 children out of 28 did transfer. 20 of them got an A. They were all tutored in some shape or form. The P7 curriculum was mixed in with the P6 curriculum, their homework was based around transfer, past papers a few times a week in school, morning transfer clubs, transfer packs for the summer holidays etc. The parents gave the usual talk that they aren't pressuring them to do it etc. They were. It was a culture ingrained in the local area. All that pressure on 10/11 year olds. Disgraceful. It was more or less the same in all the transfer schools I taught in. The exception being one in Antrim. It was an extremely deprived area. The parents simply couldn't afford to get the kids tutored.

My local schools have nowhere near that sort of pressure. The children all know that they're either going to Lismore or St. Ronan's, with the exception of a few in each school. Literally no worrying about what grade they're going to need.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

I can only comment on the last 11 years but it's always been like that in my time of teaching. I taught in a school were 26 children out of 28 did transfer. 20 of them got an A. They were all tutored in some shape or form. The P7 curriculum was mixed in with the P6 curriculum, their homework was based around transfer, past papers a few times a week in school, morning transfer clubs, transfer packs for the summer holidays etc. The parents gave the usual talk that they aren't pressuring them to do it etc. They were. It was a culture ingrained in the local area. All that pressure on 10/11 year olds. Disgraceful. It was more or less the same in all the transfer schools I taught in. The exception being one in Antrim. It was an extremely deprived area. The parents simply couldn't afford to get the kids tutored.

My local schools have nowhere near that sort of pressure. The children all know that they're either going to Lismore or St. Ronan's, with the exception of a few in each school. Literally no worrying about what grade they're going to need.

My wains all done transfer. School done no prep. We didn't get them tutored,they all passed and have gone to grammar. We are from working class background,I just went with flow and it's worker well, we were very easy going about it,I see the serious failings in system but at same time glad wains got grammar education

[JimStynes]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

I can only comment on the last 11 years but it's always been like that in my time of teaching. I taught in a school were 26 children out of 28 did transfer. 20 of them got an A. They were all tutored in some shape or form. The P7 curriculum was mixed in with the P6 curriculum, their homework was based around transfer, past papers a few times a week in school, morning transfer clubs, transfer packs for the summer holidays etc. The parents gave the usual talk that they aren't pressuring them to do it etc. They were. It was a culture ingrained in the local area. All that pressure on 10/11 year olds. Disgraceful. It was more or less the same in all the transfer schools I taught in. The exception being one in Antrim. It was an extremely deprived area. The parents simply couldn't afford to get the kids tutored.

My local schools have nowhere near that sort of pressure. The children all know that they're either going to Lismore or St. Ronan's, with the exception of a few in each school. Literally no worrying about what grade they're going to need.

My wains all done transfer. School done no prep. We didn't get them tutored,they all passed and have gone to grammar. We are from working class background,I just went with flow and it's worker well, we were very easy going about it,I see the serious failings in system but at same time glad wains got grammar education

They're obviously very clever and I would say in the minority of cases that do no prep at all. As I said earlier, the test is in November. They won't have been taught some of the things on the test unless the school adjusts their curriculum to squeeze everything in before that date. I've never heard of any cases where a child does the test without even looking at some past papers.

[Milltown Row2]

Any child or adult doing any exams will prep, who turns up and doesn't prepare?

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail

Looking at and doing past papers is standard ffs.

The system is wrong I'm not disagreeing with you, certainly looking at the age is one way, but having streamed schools is better than throwing them altogether with different learning abilities.

So whether it's a grammar school or a properly streamed comprehensive school, it'll be doing the same thing.

Even my shitty secondary school was streamed, not that it made a pile a difference, rioting, watching stolen cars on the pitch, and hurling and football was the only show in town

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

I can only comment on the last 11 years but it's always been like that in my time of teaching. I taught in a school were 26 children out of 28 did transfer. 20 of them got an A. They were all tutored in some shape or form. The P7 curriculum was mixed in with the P6 curriculum, their homework was based around transfer, past papers a few times a week in school, morning transfer clubs, transfer packs for the summer holidays etc. The parents gave the usual talk that they aren't pressuring them to do it etc. They were. It was a culture ingrained in the local area. All that pressure on 10/11 year olds. Disgraceful. It was more or less the same in all the transfer schools I taught in. The exception being one in Antrim. It was an extremely deprived area. The parents simply couldn't afford to get the kids tutored.

My local schools have nowhere near that sort of pressure. The children all know that they're either going to Lismore or St. Ronan's, with the exception of a few in each school. Literally no worrying about what grade they're going to need.

My wains all done transfer. School done no prep. We didn't get them tutored,they all passed and have gone to grammar. We are from working class background,I just went with flow and it's worker well, we were very easy going about it,I see the serious failings in system but at same time glad wains got grammar education

They're obviously very clever and I would say in the minority of cases that do no prep at all. As I said earlier, the test is in November. They won't have been taught some of the things on the test unless the school adjusts their curriculum to squeeze everything in before that date. I've never heard of any cases where a child does the test without even looking at some past papers.

No I agree with you. We really did have a take it or leave attitude in our house and there were no papers available in the early days,I'm nearly sorry now I didn't push wains bit more.  Nearly too relaxed

[marty34]

Im torn on it. The test can fail good students who flop on the day but i do think there is place for academic grading of schools at secondary level or at very least classes

But when pupils go into first year in any school, depending on numbers obviously, is there not 'tests' done to check their 'ability level' and placed in a class accordingly?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Im torn on it. The test can fail good students who flop on the day but i do think there is place for academic grading of schools at secondary level or at very least classes

But when pupils go into first year in any school, depending on numbers obviously, is there not 'tests' done to check their 'ability level' and placed in a class accordingly?

Possiblly,used to be back in the day, mines went to grammar, mixed experiences. The all girls grammar could be a toxic place, maybe all one sex schools are like that.

[marty34]

Are there any areas in the North that aren't 'transfer' areas? I teach near Lurgan and not one child will be doing the transfer in our school. One child has done it in the past 6 years. It is never mentioned. The children are so much happier here than other schools I've taught in. When I taught in an area that feeds into Rathmore and the likes, I couldn't believe how much of a big deal it was. Serious pressure put on children. The Monday after results day was always a very tough day when a lot of children didn't get the result they wanted. 10/11 years of age and devastated over an exam. The exam is in November as well. Half the P7 curriculum isn't even taught at that stage so they're all tutored within an inch of their life. A bloody joke of a system. Is it more of a Protestant thing or what?

Did you do the 11+?

No, it wasn't ever a thing in the schools around our area. We had the Dixon Plan. St. Paul's for 3 years then we did a transfer test at the end of 3rd year into St. Michael's Grammar. They've all been merged into the new St. Ronan's college.

So you did a transfer test, just older, right. There's me thinking you didn't 

Yes this is 100% the point. Instead of doing a transfer test at 10/11 years of age then do it when children are a little older around 14.

I agree with the age thing btw, I put it on my last post. But you still did a test to transfer to a better school, you didn't have to.

Whether the test is a good thing or not, and being 11 or 13 to me, it's still a test. We are judged through exams all through school, I'm not for or against comprehensive schools, good streaming would be my priority

Of course children are judged with testing right up until they finish university and beyond. But doing it when they are 10/11 and with the emphasis and pressure attached to the transfer is ridiculous. It's the same every year. Children having meltdowns and panic attacks walking into the exam hall. I am never going to agree with that.

Totally agree Jim.

I'd be against it for the same reason.  All about statistics at the end of the day.  Pushy parents who want to get into a grammar (wanting to do their 'best' for their kids) but at the same time putting pressure on their child to get into a grammar and being a success/failure at 10/11 and all the mental health aspects that are tied to that.

[Smurfy123]

I was against schools closing earlier in the year but think now they should close for 3 weeks to get this virus down. Weir is making a complete balls of things
Full lockdown until January 25th then all school kids back. Get rid of the midterm so we can gather a week back. So affectively we are loosing 2 weeks
What is the point of a lockdown and kids going to school.

[marty34]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

I can only comment on the last 11 years but it's always been like that in my time of teaching. I taught in a school were 26 children out of 28 did transfer. 20 of them got an A. They were all tutored in some shape or form. The P7 curriculum was mixed in with the P6 curriculum, their homework was based around transfer, past papers a few times a week in school, morning transfer clubs, transfer packs for the summer holidays etc. The parents gave the usual talk that they aren't pressuring them to do it etc. They were. It was a culture ingrained in the local area. All that pressure on 10/11 year olds. Disgraceful. It was more or less the same in all the transfer schools I taught in. The exception being one in Antrim. It was an extremely deprived area. The parents simply couldn't afford to get the kids tutored.

My local schools have nowhere near that sort of pressure. The children all know that they're either going to Lismore or St. Ronan's, with the exception of a few in each school. Literally no worrying about what grade they're going to need.

My wains all done transfer. School done no prep. We didn't get them tutored,they all passed and have gone to grammar. We are from working class background,I just went with flow and it's worker well, we were very easy going about it,I see the serious failings in system but at same time glad wains got grammar education

What's the difference between a grammar school education and a secondary school education?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Are there any areas in the North that aren't 'transfer' areas? I teach near Lurgan and not one child will be doing the transfer in our school. One child has done it in the past 6 years. It is never mentioned. The children are so much happier here than other schools I've taught in. When I taught in an area that feeds into Rathmore and the likes, I couldn't believe how much of a big deal it was. Serious pressure put on children. The Monday after results day was always a very tough day when a lot of children didn't get the result they wanted. 10/11 years of age and devastated over an exam. The exam is in November as well. Half the P7 curriculum isn't even taught at that stage so they're all tutored within an inch of their life. A bloody joke of a system. Is it more of a Protestant thing or what?

Did you do the 11+?

No, it wasn't ever a thing in the schools around our area. We had the Dixon Plan. St. Paul's for 3 years then we did a transfer test at the end of 3rd year into St. Michael's Grammar. They've all been merged into the new St. Ronan's college.

So you did a transfer test, just older, right. There's me thinking you didn't 

Yes this is 100% the point. Instead of doing a transfer test at 10/11 years of age then do it when children are a little older around 14.

I agree with the age thing btw, I put it on my last post. But you still did a test to transfer to a better school, you didn't have to.

Whether the test is a good thing or not, and being 11 or 13 to me, it's still a test. We are judged through exams all through school, I'm not for or against comprehensive schools, good streaming would be my priority

Of course children are judged with testing right up until they finish university and beyond. But doing it when they are 10/11 and with the emphasis and pressure attached to the transfer is ridiculous. It's the same every year. Children having meltdowns and panic attacks walking into the exam hall. I am never going to agree with that.

Totally agree Jim.

I'd be against it for the same reason.  All about statistics at the end of the day.  Pushy parents who want to get into a grammar (wanting to do their 'best' for their kids) but at the same time putting pressure on their child to get into a grammar and being a success/failure at 10/11 and all the mental health as
pects that are tied to that.

If we can get all the non grammars up to good standard parents may start putting less emphasis on transfer. The once lauded College here in Derry has really developed a bad rep in recent years. 1600 boys in a system that maybe is not prepared for lads of differing abilities. Failed 11 plus myself after being top of class in every prep exam. Totally freaked out and wrote nothing , so I think there has to be either abetter process of selecting or a better way of getting all schools up to similar standard.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Is that more so now or was it happening all the time?

I've no memory of it being at thing

I can only comment on the last 11 years but it's always been like that in my time of teaching. I taught in a school were 26 children out of 28 did transfer. 20 of them got an A. They were all tutored in some shape or form. The P7 curriculum was mixed in with the P6 curriculum, their homework was based around transfer, past papers a few times a week in school, morning transfer clubs, transfer packs for the summer holidays etc. The parents gave the usual talk that they aren't pressuring them to do it etc. They were. It was a culture ingrained in the local area. All that pressure on 10/11 year olds. Disgraceful. It was more or less the same in all the transfer schools I taught in. The exception being one in Antrim. It was an extremely deprived area. The parents simply couldn't afford to get the kids tutored.

My local schools have nowhere near that sort of pressure. The children all know that they're either going to Lismore or St. Ronan's, with the exception of a few in each school. Literally no worrying about what grade they're going to need.

My wains all done transfer. School done no prep. We didn't get them tutored,they all passed and have gone to grammar. We are from working class background,I just went with flow and it's worker well, we were very easy going about it,I see the serious failings in system but at same time glad wains got grammar education

What's the difference between a grammar school education and a secondary school education?

Quality of teaching unfortunately certainly in boys schools here. Girls getting closer in standard. Most of the secondary schools in Derry don't even offer full range of A levels

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Yip, secondary school teachers tend to be useless and generally they're arseholes too.

Lol not at all. I should take that back, standard and quality of courses can be better in grammars ,usually not down to teaching but a lot of other factors, possibly a more challenging environment for a teacher in a secondary school, the lack of breath in subjects is a big thing though

[marty34]

Are there any areas in the North that aren't 'transfer' areas? I teach near Lurgan and not one child will be doing the transfer in our school. One child has done it in the past 6 years. It is never mentioned. The children are so much happier here than other schools I've taught in. When I taught in an area that feeds into Rathmore and the likes, I couldn't believe how much of a big deal it was. Serious pressure put on children. The Monday after results day was always a very tough day when a lot of children didn't get the result they wanted. 10/11 years of age and devastated over an exam. The exam is in November as well. Half the P7 curriculum isn't even taught at that stage so they're all tutored within an inch of their life. A bloody joke of a system. Is it more of a Protestant thing or what?
[/quote]Some parents will want their children to attend the top grammars for kudos but for most people I'd say it is related related to how good or shit the schools are in your area.

[/b]

This is the bit parents don't understand.

Do they think if their kids go to a certain school, then they'll 'do well', for want of a better phrase?

Parents seem to think that their kids will become Einsteins if they go to a certain school.

Personally, I think it's all about keeping up with the Joneses and sipping their lattès in Starbucks saying wee Johnny's ski trip is costing £1000.

Plus how do parents know how 'good' a school is? By reading a generic one page inspection report from the ETI saying the school is good, ok or crap?

I don't think it's as complicated as ETI reports tbh.
School reputations in the community dictate. The parents are thinking that wee Johnny has a better chance of doing well if he's in the school that gets the good exam results rather than the school up the road where the wee bastids are climbing the walls and stabbing each other.

But Hardstation, this is all word of mouth.  Reputations from the community are parents saying...such and such is a good school. Why? My wee lad likes it, does well at sport etc. etc.  It's all what parents say - no hard facts based on evidence.

The only thing that's concrete is an ETI report.

And even at that, inspectors spend 3 days in a school, go through it with a fine tooth comb and, after all that, all the pricks can do is a basic report which basically says good, ok or bad.  Wtf like?
That's a debate for another day.

My point is that child will do well whatever school they go to - regardless of ability.  I know pupils who went to secondary and got 4 'As' in A lavel, while I know others who dropped out of grammars at the end of fifth year.

Parents will, for the most part, especially in rural areas, send their kids to the local school.  For handiness moreso than anything else i.e. the bus picks them up at the bottom of the lane at 8:30 am.  Cities and larger towns have maybe more choice but not to a huge extent.  Distance will always be a huge factor in their choice.

If a child who is academially gifted went to a secondary school, who's to say they wouldn't get the same results/education as by going to a grammar school?


Finally, should we not be judging our kids on their value to society, sporting prowess and creativity etc. etc. instead of are they and 'A', 'B' or 'D'?