Teachers get it handy!

[Delgany 2nds]

I have a son who is a teacher, temporary contract from September to June, does not get paid for A/L, going on 3 years now. Therefore does not get paid for three months of the yea. He is seriously considering leaving the profession. Can't get a mortgage as job is not secure. The number of friends he knows on similar situation.

It can be disheartening but he should stick with it.

A few pointers...
If he has worked in the exact same job for 3 years, he should be aware that after 4 years on a temporary contract, he has the right to be made permanent.

With 3 years experience, he should be getting  through to shortlisting stage for jobs.

His temporary pay includes holiday pay allowance.

[Franko]

I have a son who is a teacher, temporary contract from September to June, does not get paid for A/L, going on 3 years now. Therefore does not get paid for three months of the yea. He is seriously considering leaving the profession. Can't get a mortgage as job is not secure. The number of friends he knows on similar situation.

Genuine question.

If there is such a shortage of young teachers, then how is it that there are such a number of young teachers stuck on temporary contracts and unable to secure a permanent post?

What am I missing here, because I can't see any explanation for this glaring discrepancy?

[quit yo jibbajabba]

I have a son who is a teacher, temporary contract from September to June, does not get paid for A/L, going on 3 years now. Therefore does not get paid for three months of the yea. He is seriously considering leaving the profession. Can't get a mortgage as job is not secure. The number of friends he knows on similar situation.

It can be disheartening but he should stick with it.

A few pointers...
If he has worked in the exact same job for 3 years, he should be aware that after 4 years on a temporary contract, he has the right to be made permanent.

With 3 years experience, he should be getting  through to shortlisting stage for jobs.

His temporary pay includes holiday pay allowance.

As an aside - He's also not talking to the right lender if he cant get a mortgage as I've a relation got one while temporary. Both of them were temporary actually

[tbrick18]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Principals can spend money, but ultimately the board of governors are responsible and a principal answers to them. Generally a BOG will have a finance officer or committee.
If a school runs up a huge deficit, I'd argue it's not all the fault of the principal, it's more of a governance issue.
From what I've seen in schools, the majority of principals are ex teachers who don't have the skillset to manage a business. BOG members, are usually volunteers who will do a certain amount, but don't want to get too involved. A combination of both scenarios are probably a major factor in schools and defecits, BUT schools are underfunded so that compounds the issues.

[marty34]

Why would you want to be on a BOG for a school?

[Delgany 2nds]

I have a son who is a teacher, temporary contract from September to June, does not get paid for A/L, going on 3 years now. Therefore does not get paid for three months of the yea. He is seriously considering leaving the profession. Can't get a mortgage as job is not secure. The number of friends he knows on similar situation.

Genuine question.

If there is such a shortage of young teachers, then how is it that there are such a number of young teachers stuck on temporary contracts and unable to secure a permanent post?

What am I missing here, because I can't see any explanation for this glaring discrepancy?

The main factor is that schools are underfunded and funding is only decided on an yearly basis, so no long term planning option
2nd issue is that school year is not aligned to financial year
3rd - school pupil numbers can fluctuate / in secondary - Subject choices at GCSE & A level can vary.
4th - temporary variations in contract by permanent staff

So, schools use temporary contracts to manage a changing financial situation

[Delgany 2nds]

]Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets. [/b]

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !
[/quote]

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.
[/quote]
This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't
[/quote]

Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.

This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.

Principals can spend money, but ultimately the board of governors are responsible and a
Going by news stories this week, English schools are broke as well with SEN  spending through the roof. Scotland the biggest spenders per pupil.

Funding in NI would need to increase by £500 per pupil for schools to balance their budgets.

The thing to remember is whether a school has a deficit or not  , it's not going to close anytime soon !

It wouldn't matter if funding increased by £500 or £5,000 per pupil; some schools will stay within budget and others will continue to massively overspend. Because there is no accountability. Some of the overspends in schools are absolutely scandalous. Deficits in controlled schools are roughly twice those in maintained schools. And some very high profile principals are among the worst offenders; two have relatively recently moved on to higher profile, more "prestigious" positions, leaving combined debts in the region of £2 million. There's plenty of scope to increase class sizes, amount of teacher contact time and reduce financial burden of management structures in many schools. I know of one school whose staffing is so bloated that it is used as an example of what not to do and, even then, nothing is done about it.

Until principals and governors are held to account for school budget deficits, we will continue to see massive wastage.
[/quote]
This is what I wondered about when the teaching union fella on the radio said 50% of schools have run up deficits, and therefore presumably 50% haven't.  Various excuses were posted on here, but I can't help wonder are some principals just spending away irresponsibly with no regard whatsoever for the consequences.  Which seems damned unfair on principals who are running a tight financial ship. 

For example principal A lays off a teacher to balance the books, but class size increases and parents aren't happy.
Principal B in the same position holds onto the teacher and runs up the deficit - no complaints here from the parents, but up goes the deficit and seemingly no accountability for that.

That's not a good system.
[/quote]

Principals can spend money, but ultimately the board of governors are responsible and a principal answers to them. Generally a BOG will have a finance officer or committee.
If a school runs up a huge deficit, I'd argue it's not all the fault of the principal, it's more of a governance issue.
From what I've seen in schools, the majority of principals are ex teachers who don't have the skillset to manage a business. BOG members, are usually volunteers who will do a certain amount, but don't want to get too involved. A combination of both scenarios are probably a major factor in schools and defecits, BUT schools are underfunded so that compounds the issues.
[/quote]

What have you seen in schools, then?

When schools are properly funded they will generally be in surplus but it is very difficult at the minute.

Also , teachers & non teaching salaries account for 90 - 95% of budget allocation. The Education Authority undertake all the financial planning. Grammar schools have a bursar to manage finances ! So Principals & BOG have little input !

[Milltown Row2]

Anyone that goes into teaching will struggle financially.. is there a lower paid degree course job?

i.e if I did law became solicitor/barrister/corporate law?

Engineer degree and so on?

[manfromdelmonte]

Principals in big secondary schools can be assh0les to young teachers in terms of contracts and hours

[Mario]

Anyone that goes into teaching will struggle financially.. is there a lower paid degree course job?

i.e if I did law became solicitor/barrister/corporate law?

Engineer degree and so on?

There are definitely lower paid jobs. I think you'd be surprised to learn what the average solicitor or engineer earns in NI.

[Milltown Row2]

Anyone that goes into teaching will struggle financially.. is there a lower paid degree course job?

i.e if I did law became solicitor/barrister/corporate law?

Engineer degree and so on?

There are definitely lower paid jobs. I think you'd be surprised to learn what the average solicitor or engineer earns in NI.

Less than £35 grand a year? Not starting rate but with experience?

[Sportacus]

Anyone that goes into teaching will struggle financially.. is there a lower paid degree course job?

i.e if I did law became solicitor/barrister/corporate law?

Engineer degree and so on?

There are definitely lower paid jobs. I think you'd be surprised to learn what the average solicitor or engineer earns in NI.

Less than £35 grand a year? Not starting rate but with experience?

I must say the £65k a year researcher jobs at the Assembly caught my eye. Or I could be an usher at the Assembly for £27k a year. Definitely handier than starting out as a teacher.

[armaghniac]

I must say the £65k a year researcher jobs at the Assembly caught my eye. Or I could be an usher at the Assembly for £27k a year. Definitely handier than starting out as a teacher.

The latter job has some occasional issues

[armaghniac]

I must say the £65k a year researcher jobs at the Assembly caught my eye. Or I could be an usher at the Assembly for £27k a year. Definitely handier than starting out as a teacher.

The latter job has some occasional issues

[Rois]

Anyone that goes into teaching will struggle financially.. is there a lower paid degree course job?

i.e if I did law became solicitor/barrister/corporate law?

Engineer degree and so on?

Accounting - trainees in the north get buttons