Author Topic: Ulster Colleges  (Read 299852 times)

grounded

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1350 on: March 18, 2023, 01:15:41 PM »
A nonsense argument Walter is putting forward, Colleges football is a super standard, much more Darwinian than some underage county panels.

IMO Tyrone' Schools' biggest advantage is that it is a huge county comparatively speaking with much greater nationalist leaning people (strong communities & clubs) than other counties. Gaelic football is king everywhere as well, little Hurling, Soccer, even Basketball? ( I remember Dungannon used to be a BB powerhouse but do they bother with it anymore?). In A grade Armagh have 2 regular MacRory teams, St Pats Armagh & St Ronans Lurgan and up until the creation of Ronans,  St Pats were the only A grade side, and a lot of our catchment area are Armagh clubs near the Tyrone border who gravitate towards Dungannon Academy. St Paul's Bessbrook flit between A & B grade and they have to contend with half of South Armagh going to Newry Schools. But that is just the way it is, there aren't going to be any structural changes that can level the playing field a bit.

Do many sth. Armagh lads still go to the 2 Newry schools?

Traditionally there was always big numbers of Cross,Mullaghbawn,Silverbridge and Killeavy lads in the Abbey and they obviously made up a large proportion of football teams.
     The College although on the Armagh side of Newry, traditionally had a bigger contingent of Down students. There was always a big Lurgan contingent in the College though.
     Much different now i'm told with a greater mix in both schools.

thewobbler

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1351 on: March 18, 2023, 03:05:44 PM »
Biggest difference between Down and Tyrone at the minute is nothing to do with population, demographics, county size.

In my opinion itís partly to do with aspiration - young lads having both heroes and a genuine chance of playing in AI final is the difference between a talented and competitive player and a talented and absolutely focused player. The latter usually wins. Itís also partly to do with knowledge and understanding, in that theyíve now had two generations of players that have each shown the following year group just how much effort it takes to reach the top.

Itís this ability to focus that turn occasional triumphs into a conveyor belt. This is what St Colmans had for years.


Wolfetones

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1352 on: March 18, 2023, 11:32:11 PM »
A nonsense argument Walter is putting forward, Colleges football is a super standard, much more Darwinian than some underage county panels.

IMO Tyrone' Schools' biggest advantage is that it is a huge county comparatively speaking with much greater nationalist leaning people (strong communities & clubs) than other counties. Gaelic football is king everywhere as well, little Hurling, Soccer, even Basketball?
( I remember Dungannon used to be a BB powerhouse but do they bother with it anymore?). In A grade Armagh have 2 regular MacRory teams, St Pats Armagh & St Ronans Lurgan and up until the creation of Ronans,  St Pats were the only A grade side, and a lot of our catchment area are Armagh clubs near the Tyrone border who gravitate towards Dungannon Academy. St Paul's Bessbrook flit between A & B grade and they have to contend with half of South Armagh going to Newry Schools. But that is just the way it is, there aren't going to be any structural changes that can level the playing field a bit.

If anything Tyrone are currently over achieving considering that at the last count almost 25% of all the primary/post primary school age children within the RC/Nationalist community in Tyrone are within the Strabane catchment area and are contributing very little.

Wildweasel74

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1353 on: March 18, 2023, 11:39:10 PM »
What you thing Derry like, I was in a school in the city last week primary level, they had 30 classrooms of children. I enquired if a local gaa team does much interaction with the school, nope , was thinking of what my old small team in the county could done with them numbers. Derry missing something badly wrong at primary level in the city. The amount of lost player base is unbelievable, with many going to secondary / gramnar with no gaa experience. Not a wonder the City can't produce a MacCrory cup team.

shawshank

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1354 on: March 18, 2023, 11:56:50 PM »
Serious performances by Omagh in the semi and final...winning by 18 and 17 points respectively. Almost a pity it was so one sided as the atmosphere never really got going in Croker. Great achievement for my own club having 3 players on the 15 one being the captain with 2-5 from play and another being man of the match.

Any one of 4 or 5 schools in Ulster could have made a great cracking at winning today. Standard very high across the province this year.

Surely a good few inter county players come from that side. Serious talents with serious attitudes

Doubt it. Schools football hugely over rated. Be doing well to get 5/6 top club players from any school side. Hogan winners or not!
From the St Colmans Newry side that won 2 hogans in 10 and 11 AFAIK Caolan Mooney, Jerome and Ryan Johnston, Niall McParland, Niall Donnelly, Donal O'Hare and Ross McGarry. There were others on that team that played for Armagh so I'm not sure if any of them went on to play at senior level with Armagh. Honourable mention to Shay McCartan who went on to play professional soccer across the water

How many of them would you call established county players? I wouldn't say one! And that includes Mooney. Maghera had numerous sides that won and reached Hogan finals over 3 or 4 years. Conor Glass and Shane McGuigan the only two to really come through to play at a high level.

Why change the argument to 'established' county players?

From those Maghera teams, would you just call Niall Toner, Padraig Cassidy, Oisin McWilliams, Shea Downey and Paul McNeill county players, but not 'established' county players?

You forgot McKaigue, McClosey, D Cassidy. McKindless, E Bradley, Lynch all played a couple of MacRory campaigns, some won it

bennydorano

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1355 on: March 19, 2023, 09:10:46 AM »
A nonsense argument Walter is putting forward, Colleges football is a super standard, much more Darwinian than some underage county panels.

IMO Tyrone' Schools' biggest advantage is that it is a huge county comparatively speaking with much greater nationalist leaning people (strong communities & clubs) than other counties. Gaelic football is king everywhere as well, little Hurling, Soccer, even Basketball?
( I remember Dungannon used to be a BB powerhouse but do they bother with it anymore?). In A grade Armagh have 2 regular MacRory teams, St Pats Armagh & St Ronans Lurgan and up until the creation of Ronans,  St Pats were the only A grade side, and a lot of our catchment area are Armagh clubs near the Tyrone border who gravitate towards Dungannon Academy. St Paul's Bessbrook flit between A & B grade and they have to contend with half of South Armagh going to Newry Schools. But that is just the way it is, there aren't going to be any structural changes that can level the playing field a bit.

If anything Tyrone are currently over achieving considering that at the last count almost 25% of all the primary/post primary school age children within the RC/Nationalist community in Tyrone are within the Strabane catchment area and are contributing very little.
Where would the likes of Stevie O'Neill & Dooher have gone to secondary?

Wolfetones

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1356 on: March 19, 2023, 10:09:04 AM »
A nonsense argument Walter is putting forward, Colleges football is a super standard, much more Darwinian than some underage county panels.

IMO Tyrone' Schools' biggest advantage is that it is a huge county comparatively speaking with much greater nationalist leaning people (strong communities & clubs) than other counties. Gaelic football is king everywhere as well, little Hurling, Soccer, even Basketball?
( I remember Dungannon used to be a BB powerhouse but do they bother with it anymore?). In A grade Armagh have 2 regular MacRory teams, St Pats Armagh & St Ronans Lurgan and up until the creation of Ronans,  St Pats were the only A grade side, and a lot of our catchment area are Armagh clubs near the Tyrone border who gravitate towards Dungannon Academy. St Paul's Bessbrook flit between A & B grade and they have to contend with half of South Armagh going to Newry Schools. But that is just the way it is, there aren't going to be any structural changes that can level the playing field a bit.

If anything Tyrone are currently over achieving considering that at the last count almost 25% of all the primary/post primary school age children within the RC/Nationalist community in Tyrone are within the Strabane catchment area and are contributing very little.
Where would the likes of Stevie O'Neill & Dooher have gone to secondary?

Stevie ONeill went to St Joseph's in Plumbridge, long since closed, and then CBS in Omagh. Brian Dooher went to St Columbs in Derry.

marty34

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1357 on: March 19, 2023, 10:26:08 AM »
A nonsense argument Walter is putting forward, Colleges football is a super standard, much more Darwinian than some underage county panels.

IMO Tyrone' Schools' biggest advantage is that it is a huge county comparatively speaking with much greater nationalist leaning people (strong communities & clubs) than other counties. Gaelic football is king everywhere as well, little Hurling, Soccer, even Basketball?
( I remember Dungannon used to be a BB powerhouse but do they bother with it anymore?). In A grade Armagh have 2 regular MacRory teams, St Pats Armagh & St Ronans Lurgan and up until the creation of Ronans,  St Pats were the only A grade side, and a lot of our catchment area are Armagh clubs near the Tyrone border who gravitate towards Dungannon Academy. St Paul's Bessbrook flit between A & B grade and they have to contend with half of South Armagh going to Newry Schools. But that is just the way it is, there aren't going to be any structural changes that can level the playing field a bit.

If anything Tyrone are currently over achieving considering that at the last count almost 25% of all the primary/post primary school age children within the RC/Nationalist community in Tyrone are within the Strabane catchment area and are contributing very little.
Where would the likes of Stevie O'Neill & Dooher have gone to secondary?

Stevie ONeill went to St Joseph's in Plumbridge, long since closed, and then CBS in Omagh. Brian Dooher went to St Columbs in Derry.

Sad at the demise of the small rural schools.

Where the lads or lassies were going to be going to the tech or a trade etc.

Estimator

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1358 on: March 19, 2023, 11:00:53 AM »
Serious performances by Omagh in the semi and final...winning by 18 and 17 points respectively. Almost a pity it was so one sided as the atmosphere never really got going in Croker. Great achievement for my own club having 3 players on the 15 one being the captain with 2-5 from play and another being man of the match.

Any one of 4 or 5 schools in Ulster could have made a great cracking at winning today. Standard very high across the province this year.

Surely a good few inter county players come from that side. Serious talents with serious attitudes

Doubt it. Schools football hugely over rated. Be doing well to get 5/6 top club players from any school side. Hogan winners or not!
From the St Colmans Newry side that won 2 hogans in 10 and 11 AFAIK Caolan Mooney, Jerome and Ryan Johnston, Niall McParland, Niall Donnelly, Donal O'Hare and Ross McGarry. There were others on that team that played for Armagh so I'm not sure if any of them went on to play at senior level with Armagh. Honourable mention to Shay McCartan who went on to play professional soccer across the water

How many of them would you call established county players? I wouldn't say one! And that includes Mooney. Maghera had numerous sides that won and reached Hogan finals over 3 or 4 years. Conor Glass and Shane McGuigan the only two to really come through to play at a high level.

Why change the argument to 'established' county players?

From those Maghera teams, would you just call Niall Toner, Padraig Cassidy, Oisin McWilliams, Shea Downey and Paul McNeill county players, but not 'established' county players?

You forgot McKaigue, McClosey, D Cassidy. McKindless, E Bradley, Lynch all played a couple of MacRory campaigns, some won it

Didn't forget, was just highlighting the other Derry players from those Maghera teams referenced by the previous poster.

Could also point out that McCloskey, Lynch, Cassidy, McEvoy, O'Donnell have all come through on the back of Convent victories in the last 7/8 years.
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Walter Cronc

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1359 on: March 20, 2023, 01:08:21 PM »
Serious performances by Omagh in the semi and final...winning by 18 and 17 points respectively. Almost a pity it was so one sided as the atmosphere never really got going in Croker. Great achievement for my own club having 3 players on the 15 one being the captain with 2-5 from play and another being man of the match.

Any one of 4 or 5 schools in Ulster could have made a great cracking at winning today. Standard very high across the province this year.

Surely a good few inter county players come from that side. Serious talents with serious attitudes

Doubt it. Schools football hugely over rated. Be doing well to get 5/6 top club players from any school side. Hogan winners or not!
From the St Colmans Newry side that won 2 hogans in 10 and 11 AFAIK Caolan Mooney, Jerome and Ryan Johnston, Niall McParland, Niall Donnelly, Donal O'Hare and Ross McGarry. There were others on that team that played for Armagh so I'm not sure if any of them went on to play at senior level with Armagh. Honourable mention to Shay McCartan who went on to play professional soccer across the water

How many of them would you call established county players? I wouldn't say one! And that includes Mooney. Maghera had numerous sides that won and reached Hogan finals over 3 or 4 years. Conor Glass and Shane McGuigan the only two to really come through to play at a high level.

Why change the argument to 'established' county players?

From those Maghera teams, would you just call Niall Toner, Padraig Cassidy, Oisin McWilliams, Shea Downey and Paul McNeill county players, but not 'established' county players?

You forgot McKaigue, McClosey, D Cassidy. McKindless, E Bradley, Lynch all played a couple of MacRory campaigns, some won it

Didn't forget, was just highlighting the other Derry players from those Maghera teams referenced by the previous poster.

Could also point out that McCloskey, Lynch, Cassidy, McEvoy, O'Donnell have all come through on the back of Convent victories in the last 7/8 years.

Or those Rossa players listed have come through based on the brilliant underage work at the club.

Estimator

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1360 on: March 20, 2023, 07:03:01 PM »
Serious performances by Omagh in the semi and final...winning by 18 and 17 points respectively. Almost a pity it was so one sided as the atmosphere never really got going in Croker. Great achievement for my own club having 3 players on the 15 one being the captain with 2-5 from play and another being man of the match.

Any one of 4 or 5 schools in Ulster could have made a great cracking at winning today. Standard very high across the province this year.

Surely a good few inter county players come from that side. Serious talents with serious attitudes

Doubt it. Schools football hugely over rated. Be doing well to get 5/6 top club players from any school side. Hogan winners or not!
From the St Colmans Newry side that won 2 hogans in 10 and 11 AFAIK Caolan Mooney, Jerome and Ryan Johnston, Niall McParland, Niall Donnelly, Donal O'Hare and Ross McGarry. There were others on that team that played for Armagh so I'm not sure if any of them went on to play at senior level with Armagh. Honourable mention to Shay McCartan who went on to play professional soccer across the water

How many of them would you call established county players? I wouldn't say one! And that includes Mooney. Maghera had numerous sides that won and reached Hogan finals over 3 or 4 years. Conor Glass and Shane McGuigan the only two to really come through to play at a high level.

Why change the argument to 'established' county players?

From those Maghera teams, would you just call Niall Toner, Padraig Cassidy, Oisin McWilliams, Shea Downey and Paul McNeill county players, but not 'established' county players?

You forgot McKaigue, McClosey, D Cassidy. McKindless, E Bradley, Lynch all played a couple of MacRory campaigns, some won it

Didn't forget, was just highlighting the other Derry players from those Maghera teams referenced by the previous poster.

Could also point out that McCloskey, Lynch, Cassidy, McEvoy, O'Donnell have all come through on the back of Convent victories in the last 7/8 years.

Or those Rossa players listed have come through based on the brilliant underage work at the club.

That's another different argument.

It'd be easy to say the same about every single school/colleges team in Ireland.
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JimStynes

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Re: Ulster Colleges
« Reply #1361 on: March 21, 2023, 07:38:22 PM »
Is colleges football taken more serious in Ulster? Is it as big a deal in other provinces as it is here.