2019 Bord na Móna Walsh Cup

Started by Mossy Bruce, November 09, 2018, 08:11:32 PM

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High Fielder

You could write a book about Eddie's comments today, but I don't think he really understands. I remember someone on Laoistalk had a phrase under their profile about the width of the ditch between Kilkenny and ourselves and how much difference it made. Eddie was on the other side of that ditch for a long time and still is. He has taken a few steps over the border but the picture isn't as transparent as he'd like to think. There are layers and depths to our story that go beyond lads not wanting to commit. It's not just an issue in Laois, and criticising lads for not committing is no longer fair game in my opinion. We'd all love to see what we think are the best lads involved, but like us all, they have lives too. Sometimes, the balancing act in Laois is not that easy, and there could be any number of reasons for that. Let's be honest with ourselves here. You would need to have an unconditional love for the blue and white jersey to go throwing yourself around a field in winter when in your heart of hearts you know there will be little reward for it.

Junior Ex Laoistalk

Quote from: High Fielder on December 18, 2018, 12:20:34 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves here. You would need to have an unconditional love for the blue and white jersey to go throwing yourself around a field in winter when in your heart of hearts you know there will be little reward for it.

And yet the footballers are doing it, and in bigger numbers than ever before. Sugrue must have something about him lads .....
Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit!

blueandwhite1

Quote from: High Fielder on December 18, 2018, 12:20:34 AM
You could write a book about Eddie's comments today, but I don't think he really understands. I remember someone on Laoistalk had a phrase under their profile about the width of the ditch between Kilkenny and ourselves and how much difference it made. Eddie was on the other side of that ditch for a long time and still is. He has taken a few steps over the border but the picture isn't as transparent as he'd like to think. There are layers and depths to our story that go beyond lads not wanting to commit. It's not just an issue in Laois, and criticising lads for not committing is no longer fair game in my opinion. We'd all love to see what we think are the best lads involved, but like us all, they have lives too. Sometimes, the balancing act in Laois is not that easy, and there could be any number of reasons for that. Let's be honest with ourselves here. You would need to have an unconditional love for the blue and white jersey to go throwing yourself around a field in winter when in your heart of hearts you know there will be little reward for it.

I would accept that view if lads were not busting a gut for their clubs as if it was a county team. Lads are choosing to play and train for Palmer cups, league titles and county titles with their clubs rather than play for the county. It's not quite the same level of commitment but it isn't far off. Let's face it too - committing to Laois hurling is a six month commitment, not 12. Our year in best case conditions is over in 7 months. I'm not diminishing the level of commitment, it is still huge but it is a short window of your life and pushes you to your limits rather than the comforts of club hurling.

It is important the Eddie gets one thing right that Cheddar did and Kelly didn't - players need to go back to their clubs as better hurlers and lift the clubs. Then there is incentives for clubs to push their players to the county set up. Last year the better hurlers weren't the county lads, many of them looked jaded and disinterested with their clubs.

merman

Eddie is shocking naive if he was expecting the same level of commitment in Laois as is in Kilkenny. I suppose to be fair, he was asked a question and he answered it; I doubt he sought out anyone to complain to.

Part of our issue is down to mentality but a larger part is pure realism.

Hurling with Laois is not an attractive proposition. I think too much is made of issues between clubs. Yes, the Rathdowney/Errill-Camross dynamic might be strained but in general, I don't think these things really affect the panel.
The issue is the level of commitment required for Laois to be competitive at Joe McDonagh; the levels needed to win it or to step up a level are even more daunting.
We have a young panel who are miles off the pace in terms of strength and conditioning. We focus on that too much and there aren't enough nights available to work on their actual hurling. Cheddar saw this and expected 5-6 nights a week; it's somewhat doable for a year or two but it's not sustainable...especially when the end result won't see us hurling in August and will garner little respect or acknowledgment outside of Laois and a token paragraph or two in the national media.

Looking down through the panel for the Carlow game, we simply don't have enough Matthew Whelans. He has been on the Laois panel since he was 19; hurled three years minor before that. I don't think he ever took a year out and bar one fall-out, has never had an issue with management in any kind of destructive way.
We as a supporter base accentuate an issue here. We, and I am culpable too, still harp on about the Zane Keenans ahilst taking for granted the Tommy Fitz, Willie Hyland or Brian Stapletons who committed over the guts of a decade.
There are a handful of other current panelists who are in the same boat and may some day achieve the same longevity.
But there are others who have fallen away and come back in for a multitude of reasons. They lose conditioning and have to restart again, if not from scratch, at least a level below where they were or where they could be.

Some of the social media commentary is laughable. The blaming of the County Board is overly simplistic and plainly wrong.
The only way we will pull our way out of this malaise is to develop our underage structures and that starts with clubs. Yes, the county board can and must facilitate this but they County Executive will only ever be as good as the ideas, energy and personnel sent in from the clubs.
We need a mindset change at juvenile level and we need a mentality shift when young lads move into secondary school at U13 level. It must become an accomplishment to make a Development Panel like it was with the footballers back in the 90s.
We need to promote a standard of excellence that engenders a sense of pride in being a Laois hurler. That needs to be an achievement in itself. Our current senior panel has, for the last couple of years, been filled out by players who have not established themselves as club hurlers. I'm not critical of these individuals because their commitment is commendable but it does dilute the overall quality of the panel and I believe, by extension, the level of focus, determination and commitment of the panel as a whole.

The mentality side of things is evident in some clubs more than others. Certain players will see their prospects of success at club level as far more attainable than county level. For others, the only way they will test themselves is by going in with the county; the alternative is to slog away at Division 1a/2/3 in the Spring.
It's hard to blame them as things stand but it further highlights the desperate need for us to develop a sense of identity and pride in being a Laois hurler. Starting that at senior is simply too late; we have to look much younger.

BallyroanAbu

Quote from: merman on December 18, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
Eddie is shocking naive if he was expecting the same level of commitment in Laois as is in Kilkenny. I suppose to be fair, he was asked a question and he answered it; I doubt he sought out anyone to complain to.

Part of our issue is down to mentality but a larger part is pure realism.

Hurling with Laois is not an attractive proposition. I think too much is made of issues between clubs. Yes, the Rathdowney/Errill-Camross dynamic might be strained but in general, I don't think these things really affect the panel.
The issue is the level of commitment required for Laois to be competitive at Joe McDonagh; the levels needed to win it or to step up a level are even more daunting.
We have a young panel who are miles off the pace in terms of strength and conditioning. We focus on that too much and there aren't enough nights available to work on their actual hurling. Cheddar saw this and expected 5-6 nights a week; it's somewhat doable for a year or two but it's not sustainable...especially when the end result won't see us hurling in August and will garner little respect or acknowledgment outside of Laois and a token paragraph or two in the national media.

Looking down through the panel for the Carlow game, we simply don't have enough Matthew Whelans. He has been on the Laois panel since he was 19; hurled three years minor before that. I don't think he ever took a year out and bar one fall-out, has never had an issue with management in any kind of destructive way.
We as a supporter base accentuate an issue here. We, and I am culpable too, still harp on about the Zane Keenans ahilst taking for granted the Tommy Fitz, Willie Hyland or Brian Stapletons who committed over the guts of a decade.
There are a handful of other current panelists who are in the same boat and may some day achieve the same longevity.
But there are others who have fallen away and come back in for a multitude of reasons. They lose conditioning and have to restart again, if not from scratch, at least a level below where they were or where they could be.

Some of the social media commentary is laughable. The blaming of the County Board is overly simplistic and plainly wrong.
The only way we will pull our way out of this malaise is to develop our underage structures and that starts with clubs. Yes, the county board can and must facilitate this but they County Executive will only ever be as good as the ideas, energy and personnel sent in from the clubs.
We need a mindset change at juvenile level and we need a mentality shift when young lads move into secondary school at U13 level. It must become an accomplishment to make a Development Panel like it was with the footballers back in the 90s.
We need to promote a standard of excellence that engenders a sense of pride in being a Laois hurler. That needs to be an achievement in itself. Our current senior panel has, for the last couple of years, been filled out by players who have not established themselves as club hurlers. I'm not critical of these individuals because their commitment is commendable but it does dilute the overall quality of the panel and I believe, by extension, the level of focus, determination and commitment of the panel as a whole.

The mentality side of things is evident in some clubs more than others. Certain players will see their prospects of success at club level as far more attainable than county level. For others, the only way they will test themselves is by going in with the county; the alternative is to slog away at Division 1a/2/3 in the Spring.
It's hard to blame them as things stand but it further highlights the desperate need for us to develop a sense of identity and pride in being a Laois hurler. Starting that at senior is simply too late; we have to look much younger.

Not a hurling man but completely agree.

blueandwhite1

Quote from: merman on December 18, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
Eddie is shocking naive if he was expecting the same level of commitment in Laois as is in Kilkenny. I suppose to be fair, he was asked a question and he answered it; I doubt he sought out anyone to complain to.

Part of our issue is down to mentality but a larger part is pure realism.

Hurling with Laois is not an attractive proposition. I think too much is made of issues between clubs. Yes, the Rathdowney/Errill-Camross dynamic might be strained but in general, I don't think these things really affect the panel.
The issue is the level of commitment required for Laois to be competitive at Joe McDonagh; the levels needed to win it or to step up a level are even more daunting.
We have a young panel who are miles off the pace in terms of strength and conditioning. We focus on that too much and there aren't enough nights available to work on their actual hurling. Cheddar saw this and expected 5-6 nights a week; it's somewhat doable for a year or two but it's not sustainable...especially when the end result won't see us hurling in August and will garner little respect or acknowledgment outside of Laois and a token paragraph or two in the national media.

Looking down through the panel for the Carlow game, we simply don't have enough Matthew Whelans. He has been on the Laois panel since he was 19; hurled three years minor before that. I don't think he ever took a year out and bar one fall-out, has never had an issue with management in any kind of destructive way.
We as a supporter base accentuate an issue here. We, and I am culpable too, still harp on about the Zane Keenans ahilst taking for granted the Tommy Fitz, Willie Hyland or Brian Stapletons who committed over the guts of a decade.
There are a handful of other current panelists who are in the same boat and may some day achieve the same longevity.
But there are others who have fallen away and come back in for a multitude of reasons. They lose conditioning and have to restart again, if not from scratch, at least a level below where they were or where they could be.

Some of the social media commentary is laughable. The blaming of the County Board is overly simplistic and plainly wrong.
The only way we will pull our way out of this malaise is to develop our underage structures and that starts with clubs. Yes, the county board can and must facilitate this but they County Executive will only ever be as good as the ideas, energy and personnel sent in from the clubs.
We need a mindset change at juvenile level and we need a mentality shift when young lads move into secondary school at U13 level. It must become an accomplishment to make a Development Panel like it was with the footballers back in the 90s.
We need to promote a standard of excellence that engenders a sense of pride in being a Laois hurler. That needs to be an achievement in itself. Our current senior panel has, for the last couple of years, been filled out by players who have not established themselves as club hurlers. I'm not critical of these individuals because their commitment is commendable but it does dilute the overall quality of the panel and I believe, by extension, the level of focus, determination and commitment of the panel as a whole.

The mentality side of things is evident in some clubs more than others. Certain players will see their prospects of success at club level as far more attainable than county level. For others, the only way they will test themselves is by going in with the county; the alternative is to slog away at Division 1a/2/3 in the Spring.
It's hard to blame them as things stand but it further highlights the desperate need for us to develop a sense of identity and pride in being a Laois hurler. Starting that at senior is simply too late; we have to look much younger.

Great post Merman. The only thing I wouldn't agree with is the county board statement. I don't think it is plainly wrong to blame the county board. At critical times (Cheddar's master plans, the Ross King incident, general management of fixtures, promotion of hurling in Portlaoise) they were found badly wanting and are well behind other county boards in terms of leading player development initiatives. Of course they do good work too. They have to be kept under pressure and held accountable to improve standards and participation. I fundamentally agree with your views on the clubs developing players and instilling a love of their county. I do believe that some clubs culturally put their own ambitions above the county (yes, I blame Camross especially, not that they would particularly give a f*ck about what anyone thinks). 

merman

Fair enough blueandwhite1; on reflection, I think you are right on the County Board. The Roddy incident was particularly poorly managed, perhaps especially from a Public Relations point-of-view; the message that has been inferred by many is criminally unhelpful!

These are elected positions, however, and clubs need to take ownership of their complicity in this problem.

The hurling board needs a complete overhaul. Every hurling club should have representation.

Giovanni

As usual, great contributions from Merman and Blueandwhite. You two lads couldn't be parachuted into the County Board, could you?

blueandwhite1

Quote from: Giovanni on December 18, 2018, 12:24:00 PM
As usual, great contributions from Merman and Blueandwhite. You two lads couldn't be parachuted into the County Board, could you?

Too young and optimistic for that job!! Would love to see the hurling board filled with men like Cheddar, Critchley, Paul Cuddy, Willie Hyland, Joe Fitz, Matthew Whelan and others whose passion for the county would bring everyone together. That is in the power of the clubs.

Mossy Bruce

Quote from: Giovanni on December 18, 2018, 12:24:00 PM
As usual, great contributions from Merman and Blueandwhite. You two lads couldn't be parachuted into the County Board, could you?
Hear, Hear
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

burdizzo

1-16 to 1-18. Very creditable performance after the last time. Thought we were going to be swamped early on, but it was like once they got the goal to bring them back into it, they started to believe they could compete. Should have been ahead at half time, but for some sloppy free-taking, and possibly could have got the draw, only for a few wides and shots that dropped short near the end. In fairness, the Dubs had some strange misses, too.
In general, our forwards struggled a bit to win ball against the bigger Dublin backs, though Mark Kavanagh, for a small lad, was really lively. Made the goal, and was unfortunate not to have a couple more points. P.J. Scully did better when dropped back to sweeping, but was a bit inclined to hit in balls without looking. The support play from the forwards was pretty poor, though. At one stage in the second half Maher won a good ball on his own, and was surrounded by five Dublin lads and none of ours making themselves available or helping. Of course he was turned over. Patrick Purcell was off the boil completely, but the backs did well, especially Joe Phelan in the corner. Ryan Mullaney had a couple of decent bursts, too. Enda Rowland was sound, and brought off one very good save early on.
So, ending the campaign on a bit of positivity. At least they competed. A couple of lads need a bit more fitness, but a definite improvement on last time.

Mossy Bruce

Quote from: burdizzo on January 06, 2019, 04:15:36 PM
1-16 to 1-18. Very creditable performance after the last time...
This sounds encouraging. Thanks for the report, burdizzo!
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

Don Draper

Disappointing to hear Leigh Bergin gone from the panel, what happened?

oneflewoverthecuckoonest

Judged on what I saw against Carlow before Christmas and todays offering against a makeshift Dublin team, this is going to be a bleak year for Laois Hurlers.
In the last 2 years, Healy,King and Conroy were often the players who dug us out of a hole, all 3 are unavailable in 2019 for different reasons and there are simply no special hurlers emerging from the younger ranks.
We will be beaten in all our league games and relegation looks a near certainty.
in the championship, we are behind Offaly and Westmeath.  we have just had the number on Antrim in recent years, with Anthony Daly assisting them this year, they will be better organised and positioned to give us some payback. our record against Kerry has been dreadful.
we are away to Offaly and Kerry and home to Westmeath and Antrim.
Eddie Brennan has no idea what he has stepped into. On the basis of the panel at his disposal and strength of other sides, we have the most regressive panel, and all I can see is 4 defeats in the Joe McDonagh and relegation.

the last Kilkenny manager we had, Fennelly was a disaster, poor Eddie could be at the helm of a team which is likely to loss all league and championship games in 2019 and suffer a double relegation.
I will add, it may not matter who is in charge, the current panel is poor save for a few like Rowland, cha and matt. the future is not bright.

we need critchley and cheddar to start back with underage and build a base of good young minors, that may be the long term solution.

Don Draper

Quote from: oneflewoverthecuckoonest on January 06, 2019, 09:52:52 PM
we need critchley and cheddar to start back with underage and build a base of good young minors, that may be the long term solution.
Poor auld Cheddar. When things were going well, we couldn't wait to get rid of him and look to move on. Now he has to come back, when we're almost at a lower ebb than we were at the last time.

Stay away Cheddar, no man could save the ball of shite that hurling is in Laois sadly.