'Bad Birthday' in GAA Underage

Started by marty34, April 25, 2019, 01:50:42 PM

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marty34

Anybody know when and why the Jan - July birthday rule came into play in underage GAA?

I think it's very unfair on players.

Has there ever been any discussion into changing it, aligning it with other sports at underage level?

johnnycool

Quote from: marty34 on April 25, 2019, 01:50:42 PM
Anybody know when and why the Jan - July birthday rule came into play in underage GAA?

I think it's very unfair on players.

Has there ever been any discussion into changing it, aligning it with other sports at underage level?

What, the calendar year as opposed to the school year?

in Down (hurling and Camogie anyway) the young age groups are run off as academic years, i.e. P4, P6 etc etc and there's a benefit in that the young ones stay in their friendship groups and are more inclined to play along with their class mates.
Then we revert to from Under 12 up as calendar years.

Pros and Cons for both IMO.

Local soccer in the north are run off on calendar years as well IIRC.

LeoMc

Quote from: johnnycool on April 25, 2019, 02:23:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 25, 2019, 01:50:42 PM
Anybody know when and why the Jan - July birthday rule came into play in underage GAA?

I think it's very unfair on players.

Has there ever been any discussion into changing it, aligning it with other sports at underage level?

What, the calendar year as opposed to the school year?

in Down (hurling and Camogie anyway) the young age groups are run off as academic years, i.e. P4, P6 etc etc and there's a benefit in that the young ones stay in their friendship groups and are more inclined to play along with their class mates.
Then we revert to from Under 12 up as calendar years.

Pros and Cons for both IMO.

Local soccer in the north are run off on calendar years as well IIRC.

Same in Tyrone.

there has to be a dividing line drawn somewhere for each year group so why not January.
For the younger ones the school year works better as they remain with their friends but at an older level players can either have a good birthday for club football or a good birthday for schools football which IMO is better than the same players dominating in both.

marty34

But why at U12 say, just keep all the kids born in the same calendar year in the same team?

thewobbler

I'd expect that it was originally implemented as there was inconsistency in the start dates for school in NI (in the eighties, some schools started students born after 1 jun, some after 1 Jul, some after 1 Aug) and continues to be in ROI (where kids can begin anytime from their 1st birthday until the day before they turn 6).

So the levellest playing field was not one involving school years.

tiempo

No such thing as a bad birthday, only bad players. I was such a bad player even a good birthday couldn't save me.

Mario

There have been a few studies on this, off the ball did a piece on it last year covering the a phd paper from some guy on the impact of Birthday and player development but i can't find a link. In summary, across all sports if you are born just after the cut off date your chances of making it are much higher than if you are born before.

Here is an article on impact in soccer:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/why-birthdays-are-one-of-the-big-problems-affecting-irish-soccer-464885.html

It's not that the current calendar year is unfair, whereever we put the cut off it will be fair to some and unfair to others

David McKeown

In the North most but not all soccer leagues went on jan - dec years. Used to annoy me as it meant separating school friends. When I tried to change it for the league I ran I was told I couldn't do it because of UEFA rules.

There's remarkable statistics though on this. In 2011 more than 65% of premier league players were born in the first 4 months of their school year. For some Olympic sports it's nearer 80%. There's lots of studies on birth bias.
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marty34

Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
In the North most but not all soccer leagues went on jan - dec years. Used to annoy me as it meant separating school friends. When I tried to change it for the league I ran I was told I couldn't do it because of UEFA rules.

There's remarkable statistics though on this. In 2011 more than 65% of premier league players were born in the first 4 months of their school year. For some Olympic sports it's nearer 80%. There's lots of studies on birth bias.

Thanks for the info David.

Any reasons why?

marty34

Quote from: Mario on April 25, 2019, 06:55:29 PM
There have been a few studies on this, off the ball did a piece on it last year covering the a phd paper from some guy on the impact of Birthday and player development but i can't find a link. In summary, across all sports if you are born just after the cut off date your chances of making it are much higher than if you are born before.

Here is an article on impact in soccer:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/why-birthdays-are-one-of-the-big-problems-affecting-irish-soccer-464885.html

It's not that the current calendar year is unfair, whereever we put the cut off it will be fair to some and unfair to others

Thanks.

David McKeown

Quote from: marty34 on April 25, 2019, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
In the North most but not all soccer leagues went on jan - dec years. Used to annoy me as it meant separating school friends. When I tried to change it for the league I ran I was told I couldn't do it because of UEFA rules.

There's remarkable statistics though on this. In 2011 more than 65% of premier league players were born in the first 4 months of their school year. For some Olympic sports it's nearer 80%. There's lots of studies on birth bias.

Thanks for the info David.

Any reasons why?

The studies suggest that when it came to training the slightly older kids tended to be be bigger stronger etc and therefore performed better. Consequently those kids were selected to compete more often and receive more training etc.
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marty34

Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 25, 2019, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
In the North most but not all soccer leagues went on jan - dec years. Used to annoy me as it meant separating school friends. When I tried to change it for the league I ran I was told I couldn't do it because of UEFA rules.

There's remarkable statistics though on this. In 2011 more than 65% of premier league players were born in the first 4 months of their school year. For some Olympic sports it's nearer 80%. There's lots of studies on birth bias.

Thanks for the info David.

Any reasons why?

The studies suggest that when it came to training the slightly older kids tended to be be bigger stronger etc and therefore performed better. Consequently those kids were selected to compete more often and receive more training etc.

Interesting David. Good article that Mario posted above.

dec

Quote from: marty34 on April 25, 2019, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
In the North most but not all soccer leagues went on jan - dec years. Used to annoy me as it meant separating school friends. When I tried to change it for the league I ran I was told I couldn't do it because of UEFA rules.

There's remarkable statistics though on this. In 2011 more than 65% of premier league players were born in the first 4 months of their school year. For some Olympic sports it's nearer 80%. There's lots of studies on birth bias.

Thanks for the info David.

Any reasons why?

The early in the year births are almost a full year older than the late birthdays. In later years that does not mean as much but in the your age groups it has a big effect. The older (bigger/faster/more co-ordinated) kid gets more possession/game time/picked for better teams and hence progresses more than the younger kid.

-- edited to add

Looks like I mostly said what David said.

johnnycool

Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 25, 2019, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
In the North most but not all soccer leagues went on jan - dec years. Used to annoy me as it meant separating school friends. When I tried to change it for the league I ran I was told I couldn't do it because of UEFA rules.

There's remarkable statistics though on this. In 2011 more than 65% of premier league players were born in the first 4 months of their school year. For some Olympic sports it's nearer 80%. There's lots of studies on birth bias.

Thanks for the info David.

Any reasons why?

The studies suggest that when it came to training the slightly older kids tended to be be bigger stronger etc and therefore performed better. Consequently those kids were selected to compete more often and receive more training etc.

I think I read somewhere that NZ rugby are going to start or if they haven't already done so by the size of the kid rather than age.

BenDover

Armagh GAA has made to the move to switch all age groups to follow school year right up to minor/U18.5.