Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[J70]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

[trileacman]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

[armaghniac]

I see that McGurk has pointed to the fact that Ireland wanted to be seen to open the doors to the refugees but can't actually give them any real support. It's a shoot the messenger job in the replies BUT like it's all shaping up to be another version of Direct Provision.

Families living in City West or in hostels for a few years and no places for their kids in schools and certainly no real support when SNA's and other resource teachers are cut already.

I know anywhere is better than a warzone but Christ have a plan in place rather than just wanting to seen to be a great bunch of lads.

The Dept of Education said they were thousands of new places being made available but any teacher I know reckons in reality that means a table shoved in the corner where a volunteer will need to come and help re English.

Now, before anyone says it I think we should take refugees from everywhere once we have scope to actually help them.

This is classic giving out without any shred of a proposal to do better. By and large SNAs and teachers have not been cut but have had to be pressed into other roles because of Covid. If an extra student comes along what else do you do but put a table in the corner? What is the alternative to putting people up in hotels?

[Armagh18]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....

[Captain Scarlet]

It's hardly my job to come up with proposals for the Dept of Education who are claiming they have plans in place for thousands of kids, when right now classrooms are overcrowded and under-resourced.

Also, why do THEY not have a plan in place that doesn't involve warehousing families in hostels and hotels for two years. I'm just a random lad on a forum not a highly paid official.

[armaghniac]

It's hardly my job to come up with proposals for the Dept of Education who are claiming they have plans in place for thousands of kids, when right now classrooms are overcrowded and under-resourced.

Also, why do THEY not have a plan in place that doesn't involve warehousing families in hostels and hotels for two years. I'm just a random lad on a forum not a highly paid official.

Eight weeks ago they had no expectation of a rake of Ukrainians arriving. Some classrooms are overcrewded by the refugeees have been directed into schools that are less crowded. And as for the warehousing, what can they do, will you give them your house?

[J70]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....

And the Parachute Regiment fired into a crowd of civilian demonstrators.

[johnnycool]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....

This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.

By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.

[Armagh18]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....

This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.

By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.

Agreed. But why didnt he stop in the east then if thats the way he wanted to justify his war. Obviously the targeting of civillians is disgraceful.   

[Rossfan]

If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years?

[seafoid]

If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years?

The Russian narrative is bollocks

[armaghniac]

If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years?

The Russian narrative is bollocks

That is a unnecessarily kind way of putting it.Bollocks doesn't have to be evil. 

[Main Street]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine....

This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.

By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.

A Putin justification is 100% phony, always has been, no matter what military conflict,  government controlled press clampdown, jailing political opposition. The Kremlin just manufacture provocation. And what nazi battalions are you on about? The ultra right paramilitaries that existed in 2014  were merged into a regular army battalion and  subjected to regular army discipline. In 2014 the battalion numbered about 1500. These days the ultra right are about 10% -15% of that battalion. The role of the ultra right paramilitaries in the Ukraine conflict has been exaggerated 1,000 fold, it's some of the most blatant Kremlin propaganda and that bar is very very low.
If the paramilitaries are prepared to fight for and defend Ukraine, that's the best place for them, in the tent peeing out.
The Ultra Right coalition managed to get one deputy elected in the last election and he/it was kicked out later, the total electoral vote for the Ultra Right was minuscule.
In contrast to the popularity of the various ultra right factions in the upcoming French election, Ukraine politics has been virtually detoxified of the extreme elements.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

 Nazis stop being Nazis once they join the regular army!!

A report by the UN commission on Human Rights in 2016 detailed incidents over a 4 month period in 2015/16 where Azov had kept weapons and forces in used civilian buildings, and displaced residents after looting civilian properties. The report  accused the Azov of raping and torturing detainees in the Donbas region.

I am not saying it is justification or that there isn't neo Nazi elements elsewhere including Russia. Nobody wins in wars especially civilian populatiions and that why all efforts should be at ending the war not prolonging it.

[Wildweasel74]

I say there more neo nazis In Russia and the USA than the Ukraine. If u watch the nazi death squads on Netflix, u seen the Urkaines dispised the Russians after the country been starved during the famine of the 30's. Welcomed the Germans but were on the receiving end of their master race complex. Russian retook Ukraine and they were bck under the thumb of soviet oppression. Is it a wonder they fight so hard for their freedom.. Russia bullied the surrounding regions for many yrs before USA or UK had any pre ww2 influence in the region.