Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[Main Street]

There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.

The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

[Don Cockburn]

Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.

[imtommygunn]

Yeah I think he is no more than shady and would agree with that. If the things being said wrt war crimes are to be believed then there is a very special place in hell for putin and many of those soldiers. I don't know how this ends tbh.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.

The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.

I have not seen anyone with an admiration for Putin, I have seen a few who mistakenly think not looking at it as all Russia/Russians bad and all  Ukraine/Ukrainians good as having an admiration for the invasion or support for Putin

[armaghniac]

https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0406/1290846-oleksandr-zavhorodniy/

Guy killed in Ukraine who used to work in Aldi in Sandyford in Dublin, a shop I have been in from time to time.

[Main Street]

Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.

The position of Barett and his ilk in response to the  unwarranted invasion and wholesale destruction is pathetic.  To claim that a response to the invasion is to call for an international movement to  pressurise Russia and NATO to cease aggressive ways  and negotiate. Don't send military support  to Ukraine as it will only prolong the war. That's nothing short of saying Ukraine should have surrendered

There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.

The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..

There were sustained mass protests all over the world against the Iraq war.  The birth of modern anti war protest was the Vietnam War. There were no such mass protests against the destruction of Chechnya or Syria. 
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right, the lack of condemnation of USA warmongering  or Israeli aggression does not make an iota of difference  when it comes to condemning Russia for this war. And it's fallacious to keep popping up with this piece of whataboutery.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.

The position of Barett and his ilk in response to the  unwarranted invasion and wholesale destruction is pathetic.  To claim that a response to the invasion is to call for an international movement to  pressurise Russia and NATO to cease aggressive ways  and negotiate. Don't send military support  to Ukraine as it will only prolong the war. That's nothing short of saying Ukraine should have surrendered

There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.

The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..

There were sustained mass protests all over the world against the Iraq war.  The birth of modern anti war protest was the Vietnam War. There were no such mass protests against the destruction of Chechnya or Syria. 
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right, the lack of condemnation of USA warmongering  or Israeli aggression does not make an iota of difference  when it comes to condemning Russia for this war. And it's fallacious to keep popping up with this piece of whataboutery.

firstly, again it's not saying Ukraine has to surrender. It is saying the war will end, like all wars... all efforts should be towards ending the war not prolonging it. There are a number of recent examples where pumping more weapons into countries hasn't worked and only leads to more prolonged loss of lives.

the unnecessary of loss of life in Ukriane is no more important than the lives of those in Palestine, Yemen etc. yet I don't see sanctions or weapons being provided to them. The hypocrisy of the West must be called out. It has never been clearer,

[Average Score]

And whom is going call this out, the world is fucked be surprised if humanity has a few hundred years left all funded by the greed of a few and the inability of the masses.

[93-DY-SAM]

And whom is going call this out, the world is fucked be surprised if humanity has a few hundred years left all funded by the greed of a few and the inability of the masses.

Humans are the biggest scourge ever put on this planet.

[Keyser soze]

There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.

Heh?  Was he out killing people when he was playing president on a TV show, before he got elected to the actual role in 2019.  Now that is a bad actor!!!

TOOYFA!!!!

[Main Street]

Richard Barrett (and peers) position is a curious hypocrisy. He claims arming Ukraine just prolongs their misery.
What does Barrett suggest?
"The real hope lies in an anti-war movement that crosses the border of East and West and opposes both Putin and NATO."
In the absence of a steady weapons supply, Ukraine wouldn't be able to resist, not for long that would inevitably lead to Ukraine surrendering and in a powerless position, Barrett isn't in favour of supplying those weapons, perhaps he thinks Ukraine should have surrendered immediately after the invasion and negotiate with an enemy invader who have pledged to wipe them from the face of the earth. Although Barrett has protested against Russia's aggression, his proposition is pie in the sky nonsense, more of a de facto position which in effect pro-Russia. Ukraine can burn while Richard  in his imagination travels the world organising mass protests against Russia and NATO.
In the Dail after Zelensky's speech, he and 3 others refused to applaud, this in spite of Zelensky's respectfully acknowledging Ireland's neutrality and praising other valuable assistance Irish people have offered.

[trileacman]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

[Keyser soze]

I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

What do you mean they have refused to?

Can you explain how not running a story is censorship?

[Captain Scarlet]

I see that McGurk has pointed to the fact that Ireland wanted to be seen to open the doors to the refugees but can't actually give them any real support. It's a shoot the messenger job in the replies BUT like it's all shaping up to be another version of Direct Provision.

Families living in City West or in hostels for a few years and no places for their kids in schools and certainly no real support when SNA's and other resource teachers are cut already.

I know anywhere is better than a warzone but Christ have a plan in place rather than just wanting to seen to be a great bunch of lads.

The Dept of Education said they were thousands of new places being made available but any teacher I know reckons in reality that means a table shoved in the corner where a volunteer will need to come and help re English.

Now, before anyone says it I think we should take refugees from everywhere once we have scope to actually help them.