gaaboard.com

Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Main Street on February 12, 2022, 09:38:45 PM

Title: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on February 12, 2022, 09:38:45 PM
Putin has repeatedly denied  that Russia will invade despite the obvious evidence of warmongering and army deployments. I'm bending towards  the worth of that promise. I very much doubt that he would go back on such a public promise. And it's unlikely  considering Russia's expressed concern over the issue, that Ukraine will join with Nato.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 12, 2022, 10:41:59 PM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on February 12, 2022, 11:28:52 PM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?

They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 13, 2022, 12:47:35 AM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?

They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Said it before a few hundred people with limited weapons caused mayhem for 30 yrs here. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. Any quick Russian victory is going to seem very hollow with time
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:49:27 AM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?

They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Said it before a few hundred people with limited weapons caused mayhem for 30 yrs here. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. Any quick Russian victory is going to seem very hollow with time
Even if the invasion completed its initial mission there would be ongoing attacks for years. They aren't a type to capitulate.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 13, 2022, 01:53:49 AM
Should Russia invade, what's likely to happen? Will they breeze past Ukrainian troops (through sheer numbers) or would they face a tough n well organised army?

They'd be in Paris by Easter.
Said it before a few hundred people with limited weapons caused mayhem for 30 yrs here. Ukraine has 40 million people and is armed to the teeth. Any quick Russian victory is going to seem very hollow with time

It isn't clear that the Russians would occupy the whole country. They would occupy the East and the coast, but they might just leave it at that and have a sort of Vichy regime elsewhere. The western part of the Ukraine would not be very welcoming and likely supplied with munitions. There was a crowd called the UPA who fought in western Ukraine from the war until 1950 or so, spending their time massacring Polish people and Soviet officials. I don't know what public opinion in Russia nowadays would think of Stalinist methods to control Ukraine.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: trileacman on February 13, 2022, 09:58:04 PM
The Russians aren’t naive enough to think a prolonged occupation of Ukraine would be in their interest. They’ve the superior Air Force and drone force so a complete military victory is simply a matter of time. 4 weeks max, after that the Russians will retreat and occupy the main strategic points, likely the ports from which the bulk of Ukrainian grain is transported and is of key economic interest. They’ll choke Ukrainian oil and gas exports at the key points too.

The point is not to win friends with the Ukrainians. The point is to show that western promises are empty and their promised interventions will mean little. As Roosevelt said “when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow.” The strategy is to show that the west is all talk and no action and the only country of strength in Eastern Europe is Russia.

With regards to a prolonged insurgency it should be remembered Russia has successfully quelled a Islamic insurgency in Chechnya.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 13, 2022, 11:32:55 PM
The Russians aren’t naive enough to think a prolonged occupation of Ukraine would be in their interest. They’ve the superior Air Force and drone force so a complete military victory is simply a matter of time. 4 weeks max, after that the Russians will retreat and occupy the main strategic points, likely the ports from which the bulk of Ukrainian grain is transported and is of key economic interest. They’ll choke Ukrainian oil and gas exports at the key points too.

The point is not to win friends with the Ukrainians. The point is to show that western promises are empty and their promised interventions will mean little. As Roosevelt said “when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow.” The strategy is to show that the west is all talk and no action and the only country of strength in Eastern Europe is Russia.

With regards to a prolonged insurgency it should be remembered Russia has successfully quelled a Islamic insurgency in Chechnya.

Succesful but at a cost. 20000 odd soldiers not to mention the rather grim episodes at the school and opera House on Russian soil.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2022, 01:03:24 AM
Yes bit the Ukraine has 30 times the population of Chechnya
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2022, 04:21:46 AM
Putin if he does give the order is taking a big risk. He is basing his decision on the fact that Ukraine and the EU are weak   if he gets it wrong he could lose Crimea or even be
replaced
Ukraine is a bit like rhe North in terms of population split. A superior army doesn't always work in an occupation scenario .
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2022, 07:48:09 AM






Surrogacy must be a sizeable business in Ukraine. It's poor and has loads of women who need the money.


https://mobile.twitter.com/HMcEntee/status/1492810367894007809
Helen McEntee TD@HMcEntee·21hIf you are in Ukraine, please follow @dfatirl advice and leave immediately. Please don’t travel to Ukraine, anyone who was due to travel for surrogacy reasons, please stay in contact with @dfatirl
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on February 14, 2022, 10:16:44 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.
Don’t tell me, let me guess.
Were these the boardrooms of banks, perhaps working to some secret protocol written by their Elders?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2022, 12:29:29 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/14/russia-ukraine-crisis-latest-putin-nato-war-refugees-diplomats/

Kremlin says Kyiv renouncing Nato membership would 'address' security concerns
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on February 14, 2022, 01:00:17 PM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on February 15, 2022, 12:19:35 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2022, 01:30:55 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
says the guy living in Monaghan ffs
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 15, 2022, 09:12:01 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

Jez, thanks for clearing that up. There was me thinking Germany started the war by invading its neighbours and then set about murdering every jewish man woman and child they could get their hands on. My mistake, I will write them an apology immediately.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on February 15, 2022, 10:47:25 PM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
says the guy living in Monaghan ffs
Yet another erroneous ‘understanding’  ….ffs
albeit a common occurance among the “white grievance brigade” .
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on February 16, 2022, 11:32:04 AM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

I guess there IS no depth the white grievance brigade won't plumb in their quest for "real" victimhood these days.
But J70, you don't truly understand it.
says the guy living in Monaghan ffs

So you’re jumping in to defend the “we owe the Germans an apology for the world wars, actually wars on Christianity” “position”?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2022, 12:39:35 PM
Johnson and the US must be very disappointed that the Russions didn't invade Ukraine ::)
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: 03,05,08 on February 16, 2022, 01:15:19 PM
the world should be eternally indebted to Russia for WWII,

even the english and yanks acknowledged that,

we saved their ass  ;)

Only the victorious write the history books. World War One and World War Two were manufactured in a Manhattan board room. From cradle to grave, we are indoctrinated with lies and propaganda. When you truly understand it, you will realize these wars were actually a war on Christianity. We owe Germany a huge apology.

Imagine actually believing this
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 16, 2022, 01:45:03 PM
Johnson and the US must be very disappointed that the Russions didn't invade Ukraine ::)

The Sun even announced the time for the invasion, 1am this morning. Those damn Russians are unreliable
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 18, 2022, 11:42:44 PM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent.  I’m sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn’t make sense for me that Russia will do it.  Showing their muscle, yes.  Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no.  A messy in-between situation is a possibility.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: trileacman on February 18, 2022, 11:53:48 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 18, 2022, 11:57:34 PM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent.  I’m sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn’t make sense for me that Russia will do it.  Showing their muscle, yes.  Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no.  A messy in-between situation is a possibility.
Biden is just the same old same old isn't he.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 19, 2022, 12:03:48 AM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent.  I’m sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn’t make sense for me that Russia will do it.  Showing their muscle, yes.  Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no.  A messy in-between situation is a possibility.

Putin is not renowned for doing what makes sense IMHO
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.

Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.

I guess they weren't anti-war at all.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 12:33:48 AM
Biden is now declaring an invasion is imminent.  I’m sure he has much better information than me, but it doesn’t make sense for me that Russia will do it.  Showing their muscle, yes.  Invading a huge country like Ukraine, no.  A messy in-between situation is a possibility.

Putin is not renowned for doing what makes sense IMHO
The one thing that has always made sense in Putin's head is the Russian jackboot. Nothing else has to make sense.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: trileacman on February 19, 2022, 02:02:49 AM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.

Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.

I guess they weren't anti-war at all.

So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 10:40:57 AM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.

Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.

I guess they weren't anti-war at all.

So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
You tell me what it looks like.


Russia has 190 troops mounted on Ukraine's border.

Putin is talking nuclear war.

The DNR/LNR puppet leaders are saying they are at war.

Russian state media has fabricated a so called "genocide" against ethnic Russians. This is a Goebbels like lie.

Russia is staging false flag explosions in the DNR/LNR.

The DNR/LNR puppets are calling for civilians to leave. These statements were recorded not yesterday as they claimed, but on Wednesday.

What does all this look like to you?

Why the fook won't the criminal mafia regime of Russia just leave Ukraine alone?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on February 19, 2022, 12:09:51 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.

Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.

I guess they weren't anti-war at all.

So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
You tell me what it looks like.


Russia has 190 troops mounted on Ukraine's border.

Putin is talking nuclear war.

The DNR/LNR puppet leaders are saying they are at war.

Russian state media has fabricated a so called "genocide" against ethnic Russians. This is a Goebbels like lie.

Russia is staging false flag explosions in the DNR/LNR.

The DNR/LNR puppets are calling for civilians to leave. These statements were recorded not yesterday as they claimed, but on Wednesday.

What does all this look like to you?

Why the fook won't the criminal mafia regime of Russia just leave Ukraine alone?

What hobbies do you have away from this board?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2022, 02:12:37 PM
Jesus the "war is nigh" predictions are getting tiresome at this stage are they not?
I presume you were saying that during the winter of 2002/03 as well.

Funny, as in not funny, how many self proclaimed "anti-war" people of that era are now full blown Russian apologists.

I guess they weren't anti-war at all.

So you agree with Biden and think a Russian invasion is imminent?
You tell me what it looks like.


Russia has 190 troops mounted on Ukraine's border.

Putin is talking nuclear war.

The DNR/LNR puppet leaders are saying they are at war.

Russian state media has fabricated a so called "genocide" against ethnic Russians. This is a Goebbels like lie.

Russia is staging false flag explosions in the DNR/LNR.

The DNR/LNR puppets are calling for civilians to leave. These statements were recorded not yesterday as they claimed, but on Wednesday.

What does all this look like to you?

Why the fook won't the criminal mafia regime of Russia just leave Ukraine alone?

What hobbies do you have away from this board?
You should take up posting here as a hobby. It might save you from spending all your time trolling here.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: dec on February 21, 2022, 08:30:48 PM
Putin recognizes the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk. That should heat things up a bit.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 08:35:58 PM
China should take the opportunity to just take over the eastern half of Russia. All the Russian army thousands of miles away at Ukraine border. China could do with the space and not many Russians there to defend it. see how putin would like that lol
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2022, 08:44:57 PM
It might be a good time for the Japanese to move some kit up towards the Kurile islands.
Or perhaps Georgia could reincorporate Abkhazia and South Ossetia while the Bear is shitting elsewhere.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: ONeill on February 21, 2022, 08:53:36 PM
Hard to know if Putin is a lunatic or genius when it comes to ambiguous speeches like this.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2022, 09:17:17 PM
China should take the opportunity to just take over the eastern half of Russia. All the Russian army thousands of miles away at Ukraine border. China could do with the space and not many Russians there to defend it. see how putin would like that lol
https://www.ft.com/content/38984025-9f1b-492f-933d-57da44fcc160

the growing threat of war over Ukraine is accelerating a major realignment in geopolitics, pushing Moscow and Beijing into a closer embrace.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 09:31:24 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:51:40 PM
China should take the opportunity to just take over the eastern half of Russia. All the Russian army thousands of miles away at Ukraine border. China could do with the space and not many Russians there to defend it. see how putin would like that lol
https://www.ft.com/content/38984025-9f1b-492f-933d-57da44fcc160

the growing threat of war over Ukraine is accelerating a major realignment in geopolitics, pushing Moscow and Beijing into a closer embrace.

Still think China would go for it if the sniffed a Russian weakness
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 21, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2022, 10:00:59 PM
Boris will sort it!  ;D
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 21, 2022, 10:07:41 PM
So what’s your thoughts on the Minsk Agreement? For or against?
So, tell us all about your precious "Minsk Agreement".

Then tell me about Putin channelling Hitler.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on February 21, 2022, 10:23:26 PM
Don’t worry Kamala is on the case.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on February 21, 2022, 10:50:35 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: trileacman on February 21, 2022, 11:32:01 PM
Hard to know if Putin is a lunatic or genius when it comes to ambiguous speeches like this.

I didn't find it ambiguous at all. Perhaps strange how he paints Europe in a very unthreatening light and lays pretty much all the blame at the USA door. It's telling he either truly perceives the US as the puppetmaster behind NATO or is deliberately using them to rile nationalist sentiment in Russia to the "old enemy". Repeatedly attacked the the US as oath breakers and references their capability to wipe out the Russian ballistic arsenal.

Really telling for me is the way he talked about Macron, viewing France as the middle guy between Russia and the US, part messenger boy/part peacemaker. I think he does truly believe Macron to be the only European leader with the political capital to talk to him. There's an obvious indifference to German diplomacy and open distain for the Brits. They truly only seem to entertain British representatives for the fun of embarrassing them.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2022, 12:17:38 AM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: whitey on February 22, 2022, 12:28:38 AM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.

Well Uncle Joe did say that a minor incursion was acceptable
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 03:32:12 AM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.

Would the Abbey Centre be included?

This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map.  NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on February 22, 2022, 06:51:02 AM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.

Would the Abbey Centre be included?

This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map.  NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway

Wouldn't be any big loss.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 22, 2022, 08:09:49 AM
Europe wasn’t “on the brink of war” when Crimea was annexed.  Can anyone explain what’s different this time?  If he rolls into Kyiev that’s different, but I still don’t think it will happen.
And I hope Simon Coveney says very little about it.  Some of the things he says, you’d think Ireland was a nuclear power.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2022, 08:17:05 AM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.

Would the Abbey Centre be included?

This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map.  NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway

I suppose during the years of the Soviet Union there was a blurring of the lines and evidently there's been tensions along the Ukrainian Eastern borders for years which Putin is looking to exploit with his "peace keeping mission"..

Straight out of the US playbook, bringing "democracy" to various countries since WW2.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2022, 08:19:45 AM
Boris will sort it!  ;D

Ironically Boris is best placed to put the most pressure on Putin and the Russian ruling elite if he were to freeze assets held in London and the City of London of loads of Putins Oligarchs.

But he won't as they've been lining his pockets and that of the Tory party for quite a few years now.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Tyrdub on February 22, 2022, 08:42:59 AM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.

Would the Abbey Centre be included?

This Ukraine craic is very messy because it's post Soviet Empire. A line on a map.  NI is post British Empire. Left behind people.
Ukraine means borderlands. There is no natural border anyway

Wouldn't be any big loss.

Hold on a minute, I live beside it, I don't want to be a commie, leave us alone
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on February 22, 2022, 09:30:16 AM
Putin wasn't long in sensing the weakness of the western leaders once Merkel left the scene. None of the others have a single ounce of gravitas, I'm sure Vlad is laughing to himself at their empty threats.

Anybody who thinks he is going to stop with occupying the 2 independent regions needs their head examined, he as much as said the whole of the Ukraine has no right to exist.

Reminds me really strongly of the annexations of Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland, with people running round ineffectually waving bits of paper in triumph as they got their asses handed to them by a madman.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 09:52:37 AM
Putin is running a huge culture war. He wants a block of pro Russian countries on Russia's borders and Ukraine doesn't agree.

If the Yanks declare sanctions he will say they want to destroy Russia.

If they do nothing he will drive a coach and horses through international law. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on February 22, 2022, 11:28:05 AM
Putin is running a huge culture war. He wants a block of pro Russian countries on Russia's borders and Ukraine doesn't agree.

If the Yanks declare sanctions he will say they want to destroy Russia.

If they do nothing he will drive a coach and horses through international law.

WTAF?? A culture war??? With tanks and helicopters????
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 12:17:52 PM
Putin is running a huge culture war. He wants a block of pro Russian countries on Russia's borders and Ukraine doesn't agree.

If the Yanks declare sanctions he will say they want to destroy Russia.

If they do nothing he will drive a coach and horses through international law.

WTAF?? A culture war??? With tanks and helicopters????
You can’t run a war without an enemy. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2022, 12:53:19 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.

Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.

Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.

Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.

And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?

Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.

If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.

The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.

And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.



Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Franko on February 22, 2022, 01:27:57 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.

Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.

Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.

Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.

And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?

Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.

If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.

The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.

And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying

But if there's one thing that hasn't worked out well historically, it's western powers taking over countries and arbitrarily placing borders within them to suit their own ends
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on February 22, 2022, 03:45:43 PM
Johnson just walked out of parliament. He said that there were sanctions on Roman Abramovich and some boy pulled him on it being a lie so he walked out  ;D

Good enough for him.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: bennydorano on February 22, 2022, 04:28:21 PM
Alexei Navalny doesn't hold back

https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1496098720076767236?t=eqd1czkQ8Y-j5UOxbguOTA&s=09
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.

Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.

Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.

Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.

And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?

Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.

If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.

The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.

And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying

But if there's one thing that hasn't worked out well historically, it's western powers taking over countries and arbitrarily placing borders within them to suit their own ends
I'd much prefer if it was the west imposing arbitrary borders on a genocidal Russia than a genocidal Russia imposing arbitrary borders on other European countries.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2022, 08:26:14 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/a8041651-3cb9-47f0-893f-b86f40069baf

There’s no reason for Moscow to just go into the [separatist territories]. It only makes sense if they go further,” said Tatiana Stanovaya, founder of political consultancy R. Politik. “In Putin’s logic he needs to take a significant part of Ukraine.”
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Franko on February 22, 2022, 08:39:32 PM
Would Putin be satisfied with the 2 Separatist regions? They make up 4% of the land area and 10% of the population.
By recognising them as autonomous Countries he gives himself the pretext of being able to move troops in but he then loses the leverage he had been hoping from the earlier agreements as he no longer has a pro-Russian element within the Ukraine borders.

Essentially makes what's left of Ukraine even more Ukrainian. Probably about as short sighted as Larne and Ballymena declaring independence
That is my simplistic view on it as well. As per the above comparison I would tend to let them have Larne and Ballymena. Just don’t let them take the Glens along with them.

Give them the whole of Newtownabbey as well and close all the junctions on the M2.

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Putin now have moved his tanks into the breakaway areas. This is a click on the ratchet, will he try and keep on going or will he bank that for now and come again some other time.
It makes no sense for Putin to stop at the occupied DNR/LNR and Crimea.

Why would he stop there? Ukraine still exists. Ukraine is what he wants gone.

Neither will it make any sense for him to stop at Ukraine. Once you're in, you're all in.

Putin has already talked about the borders of the imperial Russian empire. That means he has his sights on the Baltic countries and Poland.

And shure why stop there, you're all in then, Russia used to occupy part of Germany, why not get that back too?

Hitlers are like sharks, they cannot stop.

If the west ever defeats Russia again, the country needs to be forcibly broken up.

The only thing that protects our freedom in the west is hard power. The last eight years have been a salutary lesson in that.

And tragically, we will probably need to use that hard power if we want to keep that freedom.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying

But if there's one thing that hasn't worked out well historically, it's western powers taking over countries and arbitrarily placing borders within them to suit their own ends
I'd much prefer if it was the west imposing arbitrary borders on a genocidal Russia than a genocidal Russia imposing arbitrary borders on other European countries.

As would I.

My point still stands.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2022, 06:26:13 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1496054448241754116
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2022, 09:35:16 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/23/boris-johnson-downing-street-party-covid-pmqs-ukraine-truss/The Conservative Party will not return Russia-linked donations as they are properly declared, Liz Truss has said.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: mouview on February 23, 2022, 01:18:57 PM
The clod will surely lose popularity if this is true, even amongst his die-hards;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/donald-trump-praises-valdimir-putins-genius-move-on-ukraine-jwdm7k8pk

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 23, 2022, 01:24:45 PM
Actually, his die hards tend to like Putin.  The whole Russiagate media thing caused a bit of a realignment in attitudes to Putin/Russia among Republicans.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: tyrone08 on February 23, 2022, 01:32:21 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2022, 02:16:50 PM
It would make more sense than them being "real" people and sadly that's not a joke because the mind does boggle on the pair of them. They are dreadful individuals and I didn't think I would ever say this I don't think Trump is as bad as Johnson.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 23, 2022, 02:32:28 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.

Tory party have received over £2M over the last number of years from Russian donors/oligarchs with links to Putin (don't think you can be an oligarch unless Putin says so or you end up in a bad/dead way) with Boris attending bunga bunga parties in Russian Billionaires houses in Italy as foreign secretary..

They're well compromised as can be seen by their feeble sanctions yesterday.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2022, 02:45:19 PM
Truss's interview on BBC breakfast with Dan Walker was hilarious. Here is a picture of you with a russian donor and here are her ties - cue a large list.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 04:28:09 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
Russian assets, not Russian agents. Russia looks for narcissistic gobshites with "larger than life" personalities who it can skilfully help to manipulate and amplify.

They will be presented as "outsiders".

Preferably they will have money problems.

Dominic Cummings, Mick Wallace and George Galloway are definitely Russian assets too.

I'd nearly go further than that with Nigel Farage and Arron Banks.

When the Putin puppet and mass murderer Viktor Yanukovych was president of Ukraine, his main "political technologist" (as they call them in Russia) was Paul Manafort, he of Black, Manafort and Stone, aka "the Torturers' Lobby." Stone is Roger Stone.

Yanukovych fled Ukraine for Russia in 2014 after he turned his firing squad on the peaceful protestors on the Maidan and was impeached 328-0 by the Ukrainian parliament.

Two years later Manafort pitched up as Trump's campaign manager.

Russia has hopelessly compromised the west.

This moment has to change everything. If it doesn't, there will no longer be a west as we understand it.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: mouview on February 23, 2022, 04:39:47 PM
It would make more sense than them being "real" people and sadly that's not a joke because the mind does boggle on the pair of them. They are dreadful individuals and I didn't think I would ever say this I don't think Trump is as bad as Johnson.

Wouldn't agree. Both men are ignorant, selfish, egotistical, mendacious and totally amoral. However, I think BJ is more of a puppet, with no vision or strategy other than his own personal promotion, largely kept in place by an agenda-driven right-wing press, ERG Brexiteer fanatics and coterie of ordinary Tories who hold their noses and give him their tacit support because he wins them elections. When his use is past or irreparably damaged they will ditch him without compunction. And in fairness to most *English* people, in spite of being conned by Brexit, they have enough sense to see him for what he is.

Trump is a genuinely dangerous man, borderline paranoiac and seeking to pervert democracy because it suits him. He's moving beyond being a politician and towards a cult leader, who has unleashed mankind's basest instincts (hatred, violence, racism) among his sycophantic followers. The GOP, like the Tories, should be utterly ashamed of themselves for propping him up. That he's favourite to become POTUS in 2024 is very scary. I couldn't see British people standing for him were he in the UK.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2022, 07:36:28 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/a28527e4-ba33-4d14-975b-33eaa45f6626

Vladimir Putin’s chief of staff and his defence minister have been blacklisted by the EU as part of the bloc’s first round of sanctions against Russia for its renewed aggression against Ukraine.

Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of RT, the Kremlin-funded English language TV channel that broadcasts outside Russia, is on the sanctions list for having “promoted a positive attitude to . . . the actions of separatists in Donbas
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on February 23, 2022, 07:37:55 PM
Going to sound like a crack pot here but I seriously think that either trump or Boris (or both) are Russian agents. Donald has lots of ties to Russia while i remember reading an article a few years ago on how Boris always seem to be protected and be at the right place at the right time. It gave a good few examples going back even before his supposed role as journalist.
Russian assets, not Russian agents. Russia looks for narcissistic gobshites with "larger than life" personalities who it can skilfully help to manipulate and amplify.

They will be presented as "outsiders".

Preferably they will have money problems.

Dominic Cummings, Mick Wallace and George Galloway are definitely Russian assets too.

I'd nearly go further than that with Nigel Farage and Arron Banks.

When the Putin puppet and mass murderer Viktor Yanukovych was president of Ukraine, his main "political technologist" (as they call them in Russia) was Paul Manafort, he of Black, Manafort and Stone, aka "the Torturers' Lobby." Stone is Roger Stone.

Yanukovych fled Ukraine for Russia in 2014 after he turned his firing squad on the peaceful protestors on the Maidan and was impeached 328-0 by the Ukrainian parliament.

Two years later Manafort pitched up as Trump's campaign manager.

Russia has hopelessly compromised the west.

This moment has to change everything. If it doesn't, there will no longer be a west as we understand it.
I would second that Aaron Banks nomination based on his tweets of recent days.  And let’s not forget he has Sammy and Ian on a leash so it will be their opinions.
Sammy likely to link Ukraine and Sinn Fein.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2022, 08:29:33 PM
So, realistically, what do the West do to stop what right now looks like only a matter of time?

If it were me, I think I'd give the Ukrainians a few nuclear bombs for their aircraft - and make sure the Russian knew they had them. Would certainly give the Russians pause before they push too hard.


[Not that I don't understand Putin's predicament. Parts of Ukraine are less than 450 km from Moscow - its not as if we haven't been here before with the US installing ballistic nuke missiles in Turkey then the Soviets responding by putting their own in Cuba. Cuban missile crisis was actually the Turkish missile crisis - and the Yanks tried very hard to start WW3 twice on the same day; 1962-10-27 - if the situation were reversed, I'd wager hot headed Americans would have started WW3! If Ukraine joins NATO, and the US installed IRBMs, there is no way the Russian forces would have a reaction time sufficient to protect Moscow - even with their Gorgon missiles.

If the 1972 ABM treaty was revisited then there might be scope for fears to be alleviated. But its unlikely the hawks in the US would be up for that.]
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 11:08:03 PM
So, realistically, what do the West do to stop what right now looks like only a matter of time?

If it were me, I think I'd give the Ukrainians a few nuclear bombs for their aircraft - and make sure the Russian knew they had them. Would certainly give the Russians pause before they push too hard.


[Not that I don't understand Putin's predicament. Parts of Ukraine are less than 450 km from Moscow - its not as if we haven't been here before with the US installing ballistic nuke missiles in Turkey then the Soviets responding by putting their own in Cuba. Cuban missile crisis was actually the Turkish missile crisis - and the Yanks tried very hard to start WW3 twice on the same day; 1962-10-27 - if the situation were reversed, I'd wager hot headed Americans would have started WW3! If Ukraine joins NATO, and the US installed IRBMs, there is no way the Russian forces would have a reaction time sufficient to protect Moscow - even with their Gorgon missiles.

If the 1972 ABM treaty was revisited then there might be scope for fears to be alleviated. But its unlikely the hawks in the US would be up for that.]
Putin is not in a "predicament".

Russia has nukes in Kaliningrad - right in the heart of Europe - and from next Sunday, when Belarus has a fake "referendum", he'll be able to have them in Belarus too.

NATO is a defensive alliance and there is nothing in Norway, Poland, the Baltics, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria etc. which is a remote threat to Russia.

Nor Finland or Ukraine.

Russia has zero case of any kind here.

All the talk of recent months has been pointless. Talking heads talking in "adult" voices, and the vast majority of it unadulterated shite.

If people would just get the following three words through their heads, they will understand this better than listening to a week of commentary.

Putin is Hitler.

Those three words are by far the most accurate summation of where we are. Let those words sink in.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2022, 11:23:57 PM
Oh f**k up sid you clown.

Compare the combat doctrines of the USA to the Soviets and now Russians from 1950 to now and its plainly clear to see who is trying to project power across the world by any and all means and who is focussed on a defensive war with nuclear response as main offensive deterrent.


Not saying Putin isn't a c**t, 'cos he is.

But your so far up yer own arse you can't see beyond yer own sh!te.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 11:30:41 PM
Oh f**k up sid you clown.

Compare the combat doctrines of the USA to the Soviets and now Russians from 1950 to now and its plainly clear to see who is trying to project power across the world by any and all means and who is focussed on a defensive war with nuclear response as main offensive deterrent.


Not saying Putin isn't a c**t, 'cos he is.

But your so far up yer own arse you can't see beyond yer own sh!te.
Who is trying to project power here?

You are calling what Russia is doing "a defensive war"?

What?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2022, 11:33:15 PM
Putin on NATO:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1496289085224550404.html

To those arguing that NATO expansion has been a constant source of tension with Russia, a few facts. 1/ THREAD

November 2001, Putin said this: “we differ in the ways and means we perceive that are suitable for reaching the same objective… [But] one can rest assured that whatever final solution is found, it will not threaten … the interests of both our countries and of the world.”

Putin also in 2001, “Russia acknowledges the role of NATO in the world of today, Russia is prepared to expand its cooperation with this organization. " 3/

"And if we change the quality of the relationship, if we change the format of the relationship between Russia and NATO, then I think NATO enlargement will cease to be an issue—will no longer be a relevant issue.” 4/

In 2001, on whether he opposed the Baltic states’ membership in NATO, Putin stated, “We of course are not in a position to tell people what to do. We cannot forbid people to make certain choices if they want to increase the security of their nations in a particular way.” 5/

Putin, May 2002, “I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole." 6/

Putin on Ukraine in NATO: "Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day, the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners.” 7/

So what changed? Democratic expansion, or what Putin calls US-supported coups in the post-communist world. Kremlin concerns about NATO expansion have been a variable, not a constant, over the last 30 years. They spike AFTER democratic breakthroughs. 8/

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 04:02:35 AM
The bombing has begun.  I honestly didn’t think Putin was this mad. Horrendous act of aggression with horrendous consequences.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 05:41:26 AM
https://twitter.com/Nat_Vasilyeva/status/1496718103367016449
Quote
Nataliya Vasilyeva
@Nat_Vasilyeva

To wake up in a Nazi Germany. I'm ashamed and can't breathe.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 07:49:06 AM
Who is trying to project power here?

You are calling what Russia is doing "a defensive war"?

What?

As usual, your incapable of reading in context.

Context to your notion of NATO being a defensive organisation and that being enough to placate Russia (or USSR before them). Clearly, the main member of NATO is not defensive nor has engaged in defensive actions on a time frame across decades.



Anyway, shit's really hit the fan now. The West will have to come up with something else, cos a few sanctions aren't gonna cut it if China do their own thing.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 07:51:42 AM
Who is trying to project power here?

You are calling what Russia is doing "a defensive war"?

What?

As usual, your incapable of reading in context.

Context to your notion of NATO being a defensive organisation and that being enough to placate Russia (or USSR before them). Clearly, the main member of NATO is not defensive nor has engaged in defensive actions on a time frame across decades.



Anyway, shit's really hit the fan now. The West will have to come up with something else, cos a few sanctions aren't gonna cut it if China do their own thing.
That's shite.

You talked about "projecting power in the world" and a "defensive war".

The US and NATO aren't projecting power here and Russia is NOT waging a defensive war.

If you cannot come out and state what is happening here, we can draw more than reasonable conclusions about your worldview.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 08:37:57 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 24, 2022, 10:16:26 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.

Totally agree with regards sanctions. I don't know how many are imposed already, but it's not working. Russia will probably hit back with their own sanctions anyways. I wonder is Putin calling America's bluff when he mentions the most 'catastrophic thing in history' bit? Or has he the arsenal to actually wage war in all directions. China agreeing with Russia going by early reports too.

When I say agreeing - I mean blaming the US.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2022, 10:34:27 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 10:41:09 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
The West is focusing  on sanctions with more expected this afternoon.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: mouview on February 24, 2022, 11:08:13 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.

Refusal to buy Russian energy and lock their financial institutions out of world access would hit them hard enough eventually, but they have now pivoted towards China anyway. I'd say Taiwan is getting pretty nervous at the moment.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on February 24, 2022, 11:15:59 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Sorting out their doorstep?

I’m sure you’re happy enough with Armagh’s current status then.

Sure sorting out their doorstep was what the English were at back when they finally completely took over Ireland under the Tudors. Had to do so, supposedly, to protect themselves from the geopolitical threats of the time.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: bennydorano on February 24, 2022, 11:16:32 AM
Russia may be a huge country geographically but it's economy is only comparable in size to Italy, so economic sanctions will bite eventually, especially if they are well targeted.

I would say the UK Government will be squirming as it becomes (even more) apparent how much dirty money London cleans and how much the Conservative party take in donations from dodgy Russians.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 24, 2022, 11:26:22 AM
Russia may be a huge country geographically but it's economy is only comparable in size to Italy, so economic sanctions will bite eventually, especially if they are well targeted.

I would say the UK Government will be squirming as it becomes (even more) apparent how much dirty money London cleans and how much the Conservative party take in donations from dodgy Russians.

UK and European Armies are ill prepared for this type of intervention hence their reticence to put feet on the ground and they'll try to avoid doing so for as long as possible and Biden also commits US troops to the cause.

Scary times indeed.

Putin is an empire builder and he's being laying the groundwork for years, testing the waters in Syria and Crimea, building allegiances and political favours, creating turmoil in political systems, cyber attacks and it looks like it's all coming to a head now.

One historian believed there'd always be a war of some sort every 50 years or so in Europe and they're not wrong.


Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Solo_run on February 24, 2022, 11:37:10 AM
Watching NATO on sky news and I wouldn't have a lot of confidence in them.

Boris Johnson's comments are soundbites that he uses over and over again "appalling" etc

Joe Biden trying to put on a strong front when in reality the USA does not care

EU just keeps banging on about sanctions - I don't think Russia gives a s**t to be perfectly honest.

Ukraine must feel very betrayed by the EU. However, this is another reason why you celebrities should be barred from politics!

Putin has called everyone's bluff and nobody will step up.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 11:55:38 AM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.

Stole that from another site but pretty accurate.

Aye its all Americas fault :o. Today has shown us that Putin knew fine well that the West would do nothing. Boris and his sanctions was a bit like in Team America - the we will have to write to you an angry letter. Joke. Ukraine should already be planning for a massive guerilla campaign as they have no hope with convetional warfare.
A place the size of Russia would be self sufficient and won't give a damn about US or EU or others' sanctions.
The "west" will hardly invade or come to military aid of Ukraine for fear of triggering WW3.
Russia is huge in terms of land mass, most of which is wilderness/useless/frozen over. The Russia economy isn’t huge compared to the EU/US.

If the world boycotted Russian gas and oil it would cripple them, although how anyone can justify that then go buy oil from the Saudi’s I really don’t know.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 12:08:02 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e

Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This “decapitation” strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.

 Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — “the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya”, according to one US official.


The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky

. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be “consequences you have never encountered in your history” — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.


 For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.

Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 12:08:12 PM
Ah the morally correct westers warmongers, starting countless wars all over the world in the last 70+ years, outraged over Russia sorting out it's doorstep. The only tragic thing here is innocent people dying, Slavic brothers killing each other, while the US makes a buck.
Many other Armagh GAA people think they're Oliver Cromwell?

Or is it just yerself?  ;)
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 12:15:43 PM
Its so sad to follow this on Twitter (i wouldnt trust a word to come from anywhere else). The Russians seem to be getting minimal resistance. I would have thought Ukraine would have a lot of good military kit from the yanks. Who knows Putin's motives for sure - is it empire building or does he just want to keep the americans off his doorstep? Time will tell I suppose. God love the poor Ukranians.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 12:17:38 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e

Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This “decapitation” strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.

 Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — “the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya”, according to one US official.



The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky

. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be “consequences you have never encountered in your history” — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.


 For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.

Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.

You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of these american experts - Do they mean like the tactics they have used and supported the use off in places like Palestine and Yemen. f**k off you hypocrites.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 12:23:32 PM
It looks like the Russians are gaining ground at lightning speed.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 12:33:17 PM
It looks like the Russians are gaining ground at lightning speed.
Hopefully for the sake of the innocent this is over asap.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 24, 2022, 12:53:46 PM
Its so sad to follow this on Twitter (i wouldnt trust a word to come from anywhere else). The Russians seem to be getting minimal resistance. I would have thought Ukraine would have a lot of good military kit from the yanks. Who knows Putin's motives for sure - is it empire building or does he just want to keep the americans off his doorstep? Time will tell I suppose. God love the poor Ukranians.

Head you over sure and get stuck into them
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 12:59:28 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/948dca16-71b9-42c8-9faa-e66c0a76aca7

The critical question that could determine the fate of the war is whether Ukraine’s forces can organise a strategic retreat to avoid encirclement or find a fallback line from which they can successfully resist or delay the Russian advance westward, said Michael Kofman, senior research scientist at CNA, a US-based think-tank. “Quantitatively and qualitatively, Russia has considerable supremacy here. Ukrainians are facing a grim situation,” Kofman said. “We should not be surprised by early Russian ground advances, as the question is when will Ukrainian forces choose to hold the line.

https://youtu.be/htgr3pvBr-I
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: lenny on February 24, 2022, 01:13:30 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e

Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This “decapitation” strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.

 Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — “the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya”, according to one US official.



The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky

. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be “consequences you have never encountered in your history” — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.


 For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.

Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.

You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of these american experts - Do they mean like the tactics they have used and supported the use off in places like Palestine and Yemen. f**k off you hypocrites.

Why just blame the americans for palestine. No country in the world seems to support the plight of the palestinians which I find incredible.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: tyrone08 on February 24, 2022, 01:57:02 PM
I'd Russia gets away with this you can be certain China will try it next.

Not sure if Putin is thinking long term. It they seize Ukraine then I imagine most board states will want to join nato there putting Russia in a worse position they are in now.

Also I would say this will be used to justify an EU army in the future which again long term would put Russia in a worse position than they were before.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.

Not one f**k.

Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.

America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.

It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: APM on February 24, 2022, 03:42:53 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.

Not one f**k.

Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.

America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.

It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.

Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right. 

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 24, 2022, 03:49:54 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.

Not one f**k.

Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.

America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.

It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.

Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.

Its pure whataboutery nonsense. Many here talking about the cuban missile crisis 60 bleeding yrs ago as some sort of argument look even more ridiculous after today.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: nrico2006 on February 24, 2022, 04:06:29 PM
The sanctions being talked about the other day were a joke, surely Putin wouldn't be worried that a few men he knows have their assets frozen.  As for their economy/oil sales, you could see the like of China becoming an extremely loyal customer to make up the difference.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 04:09:28 PM

Sanctions will.be serious


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/24/russia-ukraine-news-invasion-war-nato-putin-sanctions-latest/



A group of Brazilian footballers who play in Ukraine pleaded for help in leaving the country, saying Russia's invasion had left them stranded in a Kyiv hotel where they sought refuge.

"There's no fuel, the border is closed, the airspace is closed. There's no way for us to get out," said centre-back Marlon in the video posted on Instagram, one of 13 Brazilians who play for Shakhtar Donetsk, one of Ukraine's top clubs.

"We're here with our families staying in a hotel because of the situation. We're asking for the Brazilian government to help. That's why we're making this video."

The video shows around 20 people, including the footballers' families, sitting and standing in a room at a Kyiv hotel.

The footballers all play for Shakhtar and Dynamo Kiev. The group included international forward David Neres, who recently signed with Shakhtar from Dutch side Ajax.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 04:15:16 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/b8b02d31-c258-4e98-8c3c-8cbeabef792e

Western security services, which have accurately predicted the course of events up until now, believe that Putin intends to overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime in its place. This “decapitation” strategy will take in not only the central government, but also regional and local governments.

 Lists have been drawn up of Ukrainian officials who will be arrested or killed. The military tactics that Russia uses are likely to be extremely brutal — “the kind of thing we saw in Syria and Chechnya”, according to one US official.



The deployment of Russian artillery and its air force would mean heavy military and civilian casualties on the Ukrainian side. Some western sources have spoken of 50,000 deaths within a week. The Ukrainian military is determined to fight back. But it is likely to find itself heavily outgunned. The Russian goal may be to surround Kyiv and force the collapse or resignation of the Ukrainian government, led by Volodymyr Zelensky

. The Russians will not want to get involved in urban warfare, if they can avoid it. They are also determined to keep the west out of this conflict. In his speech, announcing the invasion, Putin warned outsiders tempted to interfere that there would be “consequences you have never encountered in your history” — a thinly veiled reference to nuclear war.


 For now, the western reaction will be confined to economic sanctions. Fearing that this moment was fast approaching, US and European diplomats have been working on a co-ordinated sanctions package for some weeks. That will be rolled out over the coming days. Russia will now be hit with financial, individual and technological sanctions.

Russian banks will be cut off from finance. Powerful Russian individuals will find themselves unable to travel to the west and will have their assets in western banks frozen. Russia will be cut off from advanced technology — such as semiconductors and aircraft parts. The effects on the Russian economy are likely to be profound. But that is unlikely to divert Putin from his chosen course. The Russian leader himself is not going to go hungry. Instead, he is likely to use the war he has unleashed as an excuse to wipe out the last vestiges of political freedom in Russia. The country will now tilt into full-scale dictatorship, which will make it easier to stamp out any dissent from Russians dismayed by the course that Putin has chosen.

You have to laugh at the hypocrisy of these american experts - Do they mean like the tactics they have used and supported the use off in places like Palestine and Yemen. f**k off you hypocrites.

Why just blame the americans for palestine. No country in the world seems to support the plight of the palestinians which I find incredible.

I didn't, my comment was in reference to the bit in bold which came from a US official. But that being said, America is by far the terrorist state Israels main world sponsor by far.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 24, 2022, 04:33:06 PM
The sanctions being talked about the other day were a joke, surely Putin wouldn't be worried that a few men he knows have their assets frozen.  As for their economy/oil sales, you could see the like of China becoming an extremely loyal customer to make up the difference.

Putin couldn’t give a flying f..k if his people where frozen never mind his assets. Even with the Donbas problem there is no excuse for this. It’s like Micheal Martin and Simon coveney rolling into south Armagh in tanks just because it’s a nationalist area. The man really is a whacked up sociopath.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 05:06:30 PM
A lot depends on what Putin does. If he decapitates the Ukrainian elite and murders the key players as Stalin did in Poland in the Katyn forest then all bets are off.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: tyrone08 on February 24, 2022, 05:16:57 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.

Not one f**k.

Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.

America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.

It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.

Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.

Its pure whataboutery nonsense. Many here talking about the cuban missile crisis 60 bleeding yrs ago as some sort of argument look even more ridiculous after today.

Putin is clearly in the wrong here but to play down the atrocities the USA and UK for decades is disingenuous. There is no point in calling out Russia when no one has called out the USA or UK before.

Back on track I am not sure how this is anything other than a short sighted victory for Putin. Surely Russia will end up worse off in the long run which is why i am wondering what the logic in this or is he just another hilter in the making.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: lenny on February 24, 2022, 05:37:16 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.

Not one f**k.

Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.

America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.

It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.

Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.

Its pure whataboutery nonsense. Many here talking about the cuban missile crisis 60 bleeding yrs ago as some sort of argument look even more ridiculous after today.

Putin is clearly in the wrong here but to play down the atrocities the USA and UK for decades is disingenuous. There is no point in calling out Russia when no one has called out the USA or UK before.

Back on track I am not sure how this is anything other than a short sighted victory for Putin. Surely Russia will end up worse off in the long run which is why i am wondering what the logic in this or is he just another hilter in the making.

Putin is a megalomaniac and extremely dangerous because he is unhinged. He wants to go down in history and probably feels he’s running out of time as he has health problems.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 05:52:06 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/5b423554-6ce9-49fe-b74c-da41298b565f
A senior western intelligence official has warned that there “is not much time” left until Russia has assembled overwhelming military forces around Kyiv as columns of tanks and troops that have moved south from Belarus link up with airborne and special forces that have fought for control of the city’s airports.

“Eventually they will have massive forces [encircling the Ukrainian capital], if not by the end of the day, then tomorrow morning if they proceed at the pace they are moving,” the official added.

“I am confident that in the coming hours Russia will seek to deploy an overwhelming force on the Ukrainian capital.”
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 06:05:01 PM
That's shite.

You talked about "projecting power in the world" and a "defensive war".

The US and NATO aren't projecting power here and Russia is NOT waging a defensive war.

If you cannot come out and state what is happening here, we can draw more than reasonable conclusions about your worldview.

Are you not capable of reading?

When I talk about power projection, I'm not even talking about all of NATO, just the yanks.

When I talk about history, I'm obviously not referring to current events.

That is clear and obvious to anyone with a grain of sense in their brains.


That history is what has shaped the Russian mindset. Rightly or wrongly.
I mentioned the yanks almost starting WW3 twice on 1962-10-27. Twice it was Soviet officers that did the right thing - outside of their standing orders I might add - that stopped things escalating. I'm not sure given current events that you'd find a senior Russian officer with the same gravitas as their paranoia is probably higher than ever.



Anyway - looking at whats going on now - I think Putin's lost the plot. Threats, bravado and even "little green men" are one thing, but he's stepped way over the line here.

As you say - at this point the West have to act, otherwise there is a house of cards ready to tumble.
- Lithuania
- Estonia
- Taiwan
to name a few
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Fionntamhnach on February 24, 2022, 06:07:31 PM

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 06:14:27 PM
He wants to go down in history and probably feels he’s running out of time as he has health problems.

Scarily that makes quite good sense.

The dying kicks of a megalomaniac that is going to drag loads of innocents into the grave with him.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: rodney trotter on February 24, 2022, 06:29:55 PM
 Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant

https://t.co/6EyVAmsJ0r
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 06:31:40 PM
Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant

https://t.co/6EyVAmsJ0r
Shortcut to Kiev
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 06:52:06 PM
None of the people bleating about "America" or "NATO" give one f**k for the people of Ukraine.

Not one f**k.

Every word out of them is that of a weasel Russia apologist.

America isn't perpetrating this barbarism.

It is the criminal mafia state that is Russia, led by the Nazi war criminal in chief Putin, which is perpetrating it.

Spot on
Whatever wrong the US has perpetrated, two wrongs don't make a right.
Reminded me of this

https://youtu.be/s2LYuRzF-c8
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 24, 2022, 07:27:54 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 24, 2022, 07:41:25 PM
Russian troops have seized the Chernobyl nuclear power plant

https://t.co/6EyVAmsJ0r

Jesus there’s a international collaboration of engineers over there trying to clean up the mess they made 30 years ago and they are in there disrupting it. What the actual f..k is wrong with these people.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2022, 07:48:37 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who’ll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 07:52:25 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who’ll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 07:52:54 PM
You're an apologist for Russian propaganda because you cannot criticise what Russia is doing without bullshit equivocations and bullshit "rationalisations" for actual blood and soil fascist imperialism.

I'm an apologist because I don't absolve a particular party of their wrongs?

So instead, I should be turning a blind eye to the wrongs of one side and completely slating the other?!?

WTF man. Get a grip of yourself.



Putin needs to be taken out - killed - and yesterday.

Probably true. Hard to know how many others in the higher echelons of Russian govt agree with him because they believe in it vs. agree with him to save their lives.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2022, 07:54:12 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who’ll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia

That Russian aggression against Sinn Fein should lead to unequivocal loyalist support you'd have thought.

But to be fair, it was very altruistic of Sammy to be concerned for Sinn Fein the other day.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2022, 07:59:50 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who’ll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia

That Russian aggression against Sinn Fein should lead to unequivocal loyalist support you'd have thought.

But to be fair, it was very altruistic of Sammy to be concerned for Sinn Fein the other day.

When he’s sleeping I’d imagine he’s going ‘Sinn fein bastard’ flat out
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 24, 2022, 08:17:44 PM
The real crisis will be who will stick up Russian flegs and who’ll take up Ukrainian flegs along the peace wall in Belfast
Surely everybody hates us we don't care would have to be loyalism/Russia

Should get decent prices from the flag manufacturers seeing as the colours are the same.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 08:17:53 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1496868208736882694
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2022, 08:22:27 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1496867412746149891
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:34:30 PM
The sanctions being talked about the other day were a joke, surely Putin wouldn't be worried that a few men he knows have their assets frozen.  As for their economy/oil sales, you could see the like of China becoming an extremely loyal customer to make up the difference.

Putin couldn’t give a flying f..k if his people where frozen never mind his assets. Even with the Donbas problem there is no excuse for this. It’s like Micheal Martin and Simon coveney rolling into south Armagh in tanks just because it’s a nationalist area. The man really is a whacked up sociopath.
That should have been done years ago but anyway…
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rudi on February 24, 2022, 10:35:53 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1496868208736882694

Poor child in that video, seems very wrong that a child has to be put through the terror of war.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2022, 10:37:20 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2022, 11:26:07 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.

You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on February 24, 2022, 11:56:24 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.

You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
why would anyone invade Ireland ?
It’s not the 12th century don’t worry about such things
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 24, 2022, 11:56:44 PM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.

You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.

I am pretty sure that if we were in NATO and Russia invaded that the other NATO countries would indeed come to our aid.
If you do not believe that then you are not in reality.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: clonadmad on February 25, 2022, 12:19:32 AM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.

You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.

You clearly don’t understand what NATO membership entails

Google NATO article 5 for starters
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 05:09:46 AM
Will this put accession to NATO on the political agenda for Ireland?  All of a sudden nothing seems certain anymore.  Who comes to Irelands aid if it is attacked? (Far fetched perhaps, but the world is an uncertain place).
Jesus Christ I hope not.

You think anyone would come to our aid if say Russia, UK or America invaded us - nato or no nato? Get real.
why would anyone invade Ireland ?
It’s not the 12th century don’t worry about such things
We are still.dealung with the fallout from the 12th century invasion . England can always go rogue in future.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on February 25, 2022, 08:49:54 AM
Another thing this highlights for me is the stink of the tories. They can't invest in the army because they are too busy giving money to their mates, they can't invest in the NHS because they are too busy giving money to their mates. They can't mess with Russia because they are too busy taking their money and even if they wanted to they invest in nothing. It highlights how disgustingly corrupt that the UK has become.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 08:53:43 AM
Free to read

https://www.ft.com/content/742f15fc-675a-4622-b022-cbec444651cf
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 25, 2022, 09:23:04 AM
Russia and Ukraine at odds regarding radiation levels at Chernobyl. Russia says it hasn't changed, Ukraine saying it's gone up. For once in this conflict, I hope the Russians are correct, but I doubt it somehow. Reports of a hostage situation there too.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 09:40:33 AM
https://t.co/NcwZyg6PJi
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 25, 2022, 01:13:32 PM

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/heavyweight-champion-vitali-klitschko-plans-fight-ukraine-brother/story?id=83094779

Warriors

Meanwhile Lomochenko fuked of the Greece
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2022, 01:46:18 PM
Another thing this highlights for me is the stink of the tories. They can't invest in the army because they are too busy giving money to their mates, they can't invest in the NHS because they are too busy giving money to their mates. They can't mess with Russia because they are too busy taking their money and even if they wanted to they invest in nothing. It highlights how disgustingly corrupt that the UK has become.

Very true. The traditional Tory party was pro business, pro Army, and not pro Russia. This lot are the complete opposite, even though they use the same party name.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 25, 2022, 03:17:39 PM
Let’s not forget Belarus involvement in all this.  Spineless cnuts. When it’s all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there’ll be no love lost between those neighbours.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 25, 2022, 03:25:52 PM
Let’s not forget Belarus involvement in all this.  Spineless cnuts. When it’s all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there’ll be no love lost between those neighbours.

If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.

What is Putins end goal?

Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 03:33:04 PM
Let’s not forget Belarus involvement in all this.  Spineless cnuts. When it’s all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there’ll be no love lost between those neighbours.

If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.

What is Putins end goal?

Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
Putin seems to want to return to.the glory days of the Soviet Union..
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Crete Boom on February 25, 2022, 03:49:14 PM
Let’s not forget Belarus involvement in all this.  Spineless cnuts. When it’s all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there’ll be no love lost between those neighbours.

If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.

What is Putins end goal?

Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?
Putin seems to want to return to.the glory days of the Soviet Union..

Pretty sure he blames Lennin for giving the various part of the Soviet Union like Ukraine too much autonomy making it weak, and wants to return to the era of Alexander III when there was one Theocratic Russian Empire!!!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 04:07:20 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c48390ea-37b0-4bfa-b3af-4c8ccbf01b88

Ukraine’s defence ministry called on residents of northern Kyiv to “make Molotov cocktails, neutralise the occupier”, while defence minister Oleksii Reznikov said 18,000 submachine guns were being distributed to citizens in the capital.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 25, 2022, 04:49:34 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c48390ea-37b0-4bfa-b3af-4c8ccbf01b88

Ukraine’s defence ministry called on residents of northern Kyiv to “make Molotov cocktails, neutralise the occupier”, while defence minister Oleksii Reznikov said 18,000 submachine guns were being distributed to citizens in the capital.

Get to know how to make a few IED's, and let the guerrilla warfare begin..

Putin might lose even more support at home once the body bags start returning there.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 25, 2022, 05:13:40 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c48390ea-37b0-4bfa-b3af-4c8ccbf01b88

Ukraine’s defence ministry called on residents of northern Kyiv to “make Molotov cocktails, neutralise the occupier”, while defence minister Oleksii Reznikov said 18,000 submachine guns were being distributed to citizens in the capital.
Surely SF have a step by step guide pdf for this they could send over?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Itchy on February 25, 2022, 05:24:46 PM
With this latest news, surely Russia will be forced to abandon this aggression...

https://www.independent.ie/news/russia-kicked-out-of-eurovision-song-contest-following-ukrainian-invasion-41385734.html

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2022, 05:55:28 PM
That will encourage Invasions all over Europe ;D
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 25, 2022, 07:17:20 PM
What if a platoon of Ukrainians dressed up as Russians walk into Poland to get NATO involved. Just a thought. Would make Russia's false flag with the separatists look like a picnic
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armamike on February 25, 2022, 07:22:33 PM
This may drag on for God knows how long but this won't end well for Putin.

In the meantime I don't think the Ukrainians will be getting too excited by the London Eye and No 10 lit up in their national colours.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armamike on February 25, 2022, 07:25:37 PM
Let’s not forget Belarus involvement in all this.  Spineless cnuts. When it’s all over, and hopefully Ukraine prevails, there’ll be no love lost between those neighbours.

If the Russians have been fúcking around with elections in UK, the states and even funding Le Pen in France, it would hardly come to anyones surprise that they actively sought "friendly" governments on their doorstep...
The Belarus leaders are bought an paid for already.

What is Putins end goal?

Break up Ukraine and install a proxy government obeying his every whim and does he go after other small ex Soviet block countries as well?

He's 20 years in power. It's gone to his head.  Probably thinks he's God at this point.  That will be his undoing.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 25, 2022, 08:13:19 PM
Snake Island, Ukrainian Island 30 miles off the coast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2iVHUMZhg
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2022, 09:04:06 PM
It sounds as though the invasion has started to go somewhat arseways.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 25, 2022, 09:37:04 PM
It sounds as though the invasion has started to go somewhat arseways.

How so??
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: weareros on February 25, 2022, 09:38:17 PM
Brave stance by Zelensky. Putin is intent on killing him. I hope some of those Irish experts on Twitter who preinvasion went with the Putin neoNazi narrative have now copped on.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 12:43:57 AM
It sounds as though the invasion has started to go somewhat arseways.

How so??

A lot of dead russians
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: thebuzz on February 26, 2022, 02:00:14 AM
I haven’t been reading the whole thread so I don’t know if this has been mentioned before. Someone put a thing up on Facebook listing 40 or 50 things which made Ukraine a very very resource rich country. Just wondering if it was exaggerated. Some of their housing doesn’t look that powerful but then there are poor areas in every country.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2022, 03:06:37 AM
Ukraine has fallen behind economically, even behind Belarus and Moldova. All of this is not going to help.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Nanderson on February 26, 2022, 08:33:09 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 08:57:35 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity

Nothing will happen to Putin. He will be sat in his palace in Russia until he dies which hopefully will be soon as his actions are probably of a dying man lashing out. The Russian people 150- million of them have sat back and let the elite shaft them and steal from them and they have done f@ck all so not likely to start now the cowards
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2022, 08:58:03 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/25/vladimir-putin-poised-unleash-terrifying-new-weapon-battle-kyiv/

Western officials on Friday briefed their serious concern that Mr Putin would order the deployment of thermobaric weapons, which can reduce cities to rubble and would cause huge loss of life.

Thermobaric missiles contain a highly explosive fuel and chemical mix and send out supersonic blast waves that can rip buildings and bodies apart. Officials said their use would cause "indiscriminate violence".

The Russian Tos-1 Buratino weapons are understood to have crossed into Ukraine, although they have yet to be used. Moscow has previously employed them in Chechnya and Syria.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: HiMucker on February 26, 2022, 09:08:30 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity

Nothing will happen to Putin. He will be sat in his palace in Russia until he dies which hopefully will be soon as his actions are probably of a dying man lashing out. The Russian people 150- million of them have sat back and let the elite shaft them and steal from them and they have done f@ck all so not likely to start now the cowards
Thats not entirely fair. Over the years countless opposition figures and thousands of their supporters have been arrested and jailed. Over the last few days thousands of Russians have been protesting and thousands have been detained. I'd imagine the protests in Russia will crank up a few notches more if the number of casualties are to be believed and the body bags start coming home.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Tubberman on February 26, 2022, 09:37:16 AM
If this doesn't go to plan for Putin and he is forced to abandon his plan will he get the death penalty for war crimes or crimes against humanity

Nothing will happen to Putin. He will be sat in his palace in Russia until he dies which hopefully will be soon as his actions are probably of a dying man lashing out. The Russian people 150- million of them have sat back and let the elite shaft them and steal from them and they have done f@ck all so not likely to start now the cowards
Thats not entirely fair. Over the years countless opposition figures and thousands of their supporters have been arrested and jailed. Over the last few days thousands of Russians have been protesting and thousands have been detained. I'd imagine the protests in Russia will crank up a few notches more if the number of casualties are to be believed and the body bags start coming home.

Individuals are taking a massive risk by protesting against the regime. It needs a mass protest or movement that is too large to be thrown into police vans and disappeared for a while.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 11:14:06 AM
How many of the thoughts and prayers Facebook profile picture brigade would accept a hike in diesel prices if it meant sanctions on Russias energy sector?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2022, 12:33:22 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/15cfa525-56fd-4fc1-a2c5-fdbdae70533a

Oleksandr Danylyuk, chair of the Kyiv-based Centre for Defence Reforms and an expert on hybrid warfare, said he believed that the Russians had not abandoned the idea of ousting Zelensky in a “false flag” coup.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on February 26, 2022, 01:07:31 PM
How many of the thoughts and prayers Facebook profile picture brigade would accept a hike in diesel prices if it meant sanctions on Russias energy sector?

Would you?

I think most people will accept sacrifices have to be made when they see what the Ukrainian people are being out through.

Unless society has gone completely off the edge with the selfish “me first/freedom” shite.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 01:08:54 PM
How many of the thoughts and prayers Facebook profile picture brigade would accept a hike in diesel prices if it meant sanctions on Russias energy sector?

Would you?

I think most people will accept sacrifices have to be made when they see what the Ukrainian people are being out through.

Unless society has gone completely off the edge with the selfish “me first/freedom” shite.

Yea I probably would, but I can understand why some living month to month couldn't.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2022, 02:39:44 PM
So where do we stop? What about all the wars going around the world at the minute and the hardships that it brings to people in those countries we don't see on the news
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: tonto1888 on February 26, 2022, 03:18:16 PM
So where do we stop? What about all the wars going around the world at the minute and the hardships that it brings to people in those countries we don't see on the news

This is what is irritating me about it all. Why does this one matter more?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 26, 2022, 03:40:42 PM
the hypocrisy of the west is sickening... little or no solidarity with the people of Iraq, Palestine, Yemen and Syria to name a few...

Palestinians and athletes who support them told not to mix politics and sports but we have Poland not playing Russia In soccer, finals moved.. in the arts Swan Lake cancelled and Russia out of the eurovision... within days...

where is the weapons, financial support and sanctions to help the palestinans.... they are labeled terrorists while the Ukrainians are hero's... Uk/US/Australia actively trying to prevent  BDS

the media are playing their part too in echoing the government on the West hypocrisy... look at how bombs being fired by the US in Iraq were described compared to similar weaponry being fired by the Russians in Ukraine...

None of that takes away from how wrong Putin and Russia are but its hardly a surprise  to see putin tey his luck when they see what the US/UK /Saudi/Israelis have been getting away with for years...

Irish government moving very fast to sanctions but the occupied territories bill is stalled...
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on February 26, 2022, 03:47:24 PM
the hypocrisy of the west is sickening... little or no solidarity with the people of Iraq, Palestine, Yemen and Syria to name a few...

Palestinians and athletes who support them told not to mix politics and sports but we have Poland not playing Russia In soccer, finals moved.. in the arts Swan Lake cancelled and Russia out of the eurovision... within days...

where is the weapons, financial support and sanctions to help the palestinans.... they are labeled terrorists while the Ukrainians are hero's... Uk/US/Australia actively trying to prevent  BDS

the media are playing their part too in echoing the government on the West hypocrisy... look at how bombs being fired by the US in Iraq were described compared to similar weaponry being fired by the Russians in Ukraine...

None of that takes away from how wrong Putin and Russia are but its hardly a surprise  to see putin tey his luck when they see what the US/UK /Saudi/Israelis have been getting away with for years...

Irish government moving very fast to sanctions but the occupied territories bill is stalled...
Absolutely. What Putin is doing is absolutely terrible but vanilla enough compared to whats been happening in Palestine and Yemen.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 26, 2022, 04:03:17 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.

if occupation is wrong it I'd as wrong in Ukraine as it is anywhere else..

if the answer to occupation is sanctions, financial and military support then  its should be the answer everywhere...

these are the same issues not different issues but the response is very different.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 04:17:12 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2022, 04:43:36 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing

They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.

You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.

The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.

But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Dire Ear on February 26, 2022, 05:01:18 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.
Wise up
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2022, 05:24:04 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing

They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.

You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.

The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.

But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.

Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2022, 05:37:27 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing

They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.

You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.

The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.

But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.

Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.

If it was some rapid op then fine but they have literally been sat on the Ukraine border for months
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on February 26, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
It is kind of hard to believe that tbh though I was reading that too.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2022, 07:33:31 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/073a37d5-4daf-49ed-b5bc-a4682ef1aa88?

The US is considering placing sanctions on the Russian central bank, in a move that would stop Moscow accessing its foreign reserves. The action by the Biden administration would be the harshest measure imposed on Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, according to people familiar with the internal discussions.

You do this by freezing its reserves held with foreign central banks. Whatever foreign exchange reserves a central bank has, they reside on the balance sheet of the issuing central bank. For example, any dollars or euros owned by Russia's central bank are held in accounts with the Fed and ECB respectively. These CBs can then freeze these accounts, effectively preventing Russia's CB from using its reserves.

At the end of June 2020, the value of Russia’s gold assets included in its international reserves surpassed the value of US dollar assets. The value of reserves totalled $561 billion as of end-June. Of that, about 30 % was held in euros, 23 % in gold and 22 % in US dollars. In the second quarter of 2018, the CBR shifted about 15 % of its foreign currency reserves into Chinese yuan (BOFIT Weekly 2019/03). By the end of June 2020, the yuan share of reserves had declined to about 12 %."
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: From the Bunker on February 26, 2022, 07:34:29 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/12552691/roman-abramovich-hands-chelsea-stewardship-to-clubs-charity-trust-following-russia-invasion-of-ukraine
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2022, 07:35:47 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/073a37d5-4daf-49ed-b5bc-a4682ef1aa88?

A G20 central bank has never been sanctioned before. This is not Iran. This is not Venezuela. So to shut off their central bank from the international financial system, or at least the dollar and euro economy, is a massively destabilising move potentially,” said Lipsky. Edward Fishman, a former US official now at the Center for a New American Security, said it would present a “devastating blow” to the Russian economy that would eclipse the significance of a ban on Swift. “If you added the Russian central bank to the SDN list, it would be the single most impactful sanction that you could apply to Russia, and you could do it with a stroke of the pen,” he said. “It would render a sizeable chunk of their foreign exchange reserves unusable overnight.”
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on February 26, 2022, 07:38:45 PM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing

They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.

You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.

The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.

But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.

Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.
that’s why this will fail Russians hearts are not in it ,!it will turn out to be putins downfall
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2022, 08:34:21 PM
So much whataboutery that you's get a job in the Dup.

if occupation is wrong it I'd as wrong in Ukraine as it is anywhere else..

if the answer to occupation is sanctions, financial and military support then  its should be the answer everywhere...

these are the same issues not different issues but the response is very different.

That's a bit simplistic. This is a nuclear power, while the western countries are nearby they do not want to escalate things so that the lunatic nukes somebody.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on February 26, 2022, 09:55:50 PM
Any word on the Saudis ramping up oil production to drive the price down and bring the Russians to heel as they did 2 years ago?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: KickPass on February 26, 2022, 10:09:33 PM
Any word on the Saudis ramping up oil production to drive the price down and bring the Russians to heel as they did 2 years ago?
The only thing the Saudis are ramping up is lethal attacks on innocent civilians in Yemen knowing it will not make the news. Same with Israel ramping up attacks on Damascus knowing Ukraine will steal all the headlines.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2022, 10:58:00 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Saffrongael on February 26, 2022, 10:59:39 PM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on February 26, 2022, 11:19:39 PM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
What have you read on social media?
He isn't even a politician.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2022, 11:41:11 PM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?

Crooks and politicians…. I thought they were all crooks
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 27, 2022, 12:02:47 AM
I know the Ukrainian President is going down a storm on social media and the like but is he not s bit of a crook ?
No. He is the anti crook. One of the reasons he has to go.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 27, 2022, 12:04:20 AM
Russian prisoners saying they didn't think they were going into Ukraine. Where the f@ck did they think they were going. Why are so many of them willing to die for absolutely nothing

They climbed into the back of a lorry or aeroplane and were drove/flown somewhere and told to get out.

You'd be surprised at what you wouldn't know if you were operating under a communications blackout for weeks.

The officers should know where they are as they'd have objectives which obviously require targets.

But the poor privates and conscripts wouldn't have a feckin' clue.

Yea they aren't sitting on social media all day long like the rest of us.

If it was some rapid op then fine but they have literally been sat on the Ukraine border for months

How would they know that though?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on February 27, 2022, 08:35:35 AM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist…
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: HiMucker on February 27, 2022, 12:11:53 PM
Complete simpletons
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2022, 12:31:43 PM
Once upon a time there was a  small group of communists in the H Block protest movement, who (in their alternate reality) preached about the glories of People's Socialist Republic of Albania, they were affectionately referred to as 'The Albanians'.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: trileacman on February 27, 2022, 01:25:13 PM
Zelenksy is an awful bollix. Great man for the social media but not much of a statesman. Reminds me a bit of Farage. A mefeiner.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on February 27, 2022, 02:25:34 PM
Zelenksy is an awful bollix. Great man for the social media but not much of a statesman. Reminds me a bit of Farage. A mefeiner.

Is it the 1st April already? Seriously. Are you for real? Did you just compare Zelenksy with Farage?

Zelenksy whatever faults he had in the past is playing a blinder here. Leading from the front instead of running. Farage would be the first man out over women and children if he was in a similar position. He’d prob trample them into the ground to save his ass. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 27, 2022, 02:41:30 PM
He's standing his Ground, I think in the same situation old Boris be in his nuclear bunker at this stage. If the Russians take Kiev it be the Siberian Gulag for him if he's that lucky.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on February 27, 2022, 03:22:36 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist…
I wonder do they appreciate they are on the same side as America First. Go far enough left or right and they meet.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2022, 05:52:12 PM
The irsp the so called  good community good guys ohhh there so good there such good community good guys.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2022, 05:53:32 PM
The irsp the socialists supporting oligarchs ohhh those socialists loving oligarchs  the billionaire loving sociallists with their private yachts
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2022, 05:59:56 PM
The irsp now supporting the same guy that those qanon extremists are those qanon clowns think putin is a white christian saviour.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2022, 06:31:22 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d01db87b-1e5a-49dd-bc75-4014d91dbd12

Four days into the invasion and Russian troops have failed to win the quick victory that Putin was counting on. Ukrainian resistance is much fiercer than the Russian leader anticipated, as Ukraine’s army fights back and the population mobilises. Captured Russian soldiers have been filmed complaining that they were told they were going on a training mission. The international response has also been tougher, more co-ordinated and united than Putin bargained for. Russia is being cut out of the global financial system. Most European airspace has been closed to Russian airlines. There has been a historic reversal in German foreign and security policy — with Berlin finally sending weaponry to Ukraine and pledging to spend more than 2 per cent of gross domestic product on defence. The Nato alliance has been given a new sense of purpose. Russia is turning into a pariah, with even China failing to back it at the UN — it abstained instead.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2022, 06:52:51 PM
The Russians seem to have thought. They could just stroll on in but now they facing hard resistance number of factors overestimating their fighting ability  and underestimating the ukranians  its early days yet Russia still might break through and get the upper hand tho if does not happen soon putin may lash out and bring in heavy weapon including thermobaric weapons Putin has also put his nuclear deterrent on high alert.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Sportacus on February 27, 2022, 07:06:13 PM
Those MPs appear ready to martyr themselves in a shootout in Kiev.  Russia will be left looking after 50 million angry Ukrainians.  This is a historic mistake by Putin. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2022, 07:09:34 PM
The english FA announce a boycott of all games v Russia. Did they have any such games on their calendar?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 27, 2022, 07:15:07 PM
Lucky Ukraine is not a 3rd world country... if it wasn't it could be ignored like Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen etc.

https://twitter.com/arwaib/status/1497999536324845573?t=l-e7KRbxhUUpQInAp9Q6AA&s=19

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497878168216252416?t=MIyvcN1bSiuTioZCljeKMw&s=19

https://twitter.com/jakobplaschke/status/1497376842541584384?t=JPybF4ZdVW5HJ130ven18A&s=19


https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497718700547346433?t=xBzwe_B-k2su1qevmz8Prg&s=19

https://twitter.com/samijiries/status/1497605828941164546?t=3T2KN_fOwN-5EsgUnlnFXg&s=19

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2022, 07:31:27 PM
The english FA announce a boycott of all games v Russia. Did they have any such games on their calendar?


not but potentially the world cup
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2022, 07:32:30 PM
Lucky Ukraine is not a 3rd world country... if it wasn't it could be ignored like Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen etc.

https://twitter.com/arwaib/status/1497999536324845573?t=l-e7KRbxhUUpQInAp9Q6AA&s=19

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497878168216252416?t=MIyvcN1bSiuTioZCljeKMw&s=19

https://twitter.com/jakobplaschke/status/1497376842541584384?t=JPybF4ZdVW5HJ130ven18A&s=19


https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1497718700547346433?t=xBzwe_B-k2su1qevmz8Prg&s=19

https://twitter.com/samijiries/status/1497605828941164546?t=3T2KN_fOwN-5EsgUnlnFXg&s=19

brexiteer types dont like any refugees
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2022, 07:48:13 PM
Lucky Ukraine is not a 3rd world country... if it wasn't it could be ignored like Syria, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen etc.

It is not on;y a question of economics, Syria was not a third world country and wasn't hugely less prosperous the Ukraine. Palestine likewise.
It is simply the case that you worry more about places on your own continent.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 27, 2022, 08:11:00 PM
The Ukraine had Nuclear weapons themselves left over from the cold War, what happened them?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: HiMucker on February 27, 2022, 08:30:32 PM
The Ukraine had Nuclear weapons themselves left over from the cold War, what happened them?
They gave them up in turn for security agreements from the US and Russia. The only country in history to do so. Hindsight I hear you say....
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: ONeill on February 27, 2022, 09:19:46 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d01db87b-1e5a-49dd-bc75-4014d91dbd12

Four days into the invasion and Russian troops have failed to win the quick victory that Putin was counting on. Ukrainian resistance is much fiercer than the Russian leader anticipated, as Ukraine’s army fights back and the population mobilises. Captured Russian soldiers have been filmed complaining that they were told they were going on a training mission. The international response has also been tougher, more co-ordinated and united than Putin bargained for. Russia is being cut out of the global financial system. Most European airspace has been closed to Russian airlines. There has been a historic reversal in German foreign and security policy — with Berlin finally sending weaponry to Ukraine and pledging to spend more than 2 per cent of gross domestic product on defence. The Nato alliance has been given a new sense of purpose. Russia is turning into a pariah, with even China failing to back it at the UN — it abstained instead.

Not sure about this. We know Russia could obliterate Ukraine within an hour if they wanted to.

There is brinkmanship going on here. The UN went as far as declaring war today, although they can't.

Guessing Putin at the minute is tough.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: burdizzo on February 27, 2022, 10:59:41 PM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist…

Do you seriously think Putin is a Russian nationalist?!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 27, 2022, 11:35:06 PM
Aye seen saoradh and irsp with USSR flags next to free Derry corner. It's a mixed up world
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2022, 12:17:13 AM
The EU, USA, Canada, Australia etc should just offer a visa to any Russian soldier that surrenders complete with his equipment.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on February 28, 2022, 10:55:40 AM
What's with the clowns with the old soviet flag getting their picture took at the Free Derry wall.
IRSP - a socialist party supporting the imperialist war led by a deranged Russian nationalist…

Do you seriously think Putin is a Russian nationalist?!
Well technically he is.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: burdizzo on February 28, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
Technically? I suppose he uses nationalism as a justification, to an extent, but I would have thought Alexy Navalny - the lad they tried to poison and then threw in jail - was far more of a Russian nationalist? But we never hear about him since Amnesty decided he wasn't kosher.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on February 28, 2022, 12:30:07 PM
Technically? I suppose he uses nationalism as a justification, to an extent, but I would have thought Alexy Navalny - the lad they tried to poison and then threw in jail - was far more of a Russian nationalist? But we never hear about him since Amnesty decided he wasn't kosher.
Putin uses nationalism to an extent?  quite an understatement there considering recent events :)
Navaly is regarded as a prisoner of conscience with AI. Why do you think Navalny was branded an enemy of the people/state, tortured and jailed in a show trial?
 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: burdizzo on February 28, 2022, 12:34:57 PM
I thought they dumped him because he didn't love Islamic immigration?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2022, 01:59:04 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/378eced2-d3a6-49cf-b07e-df0b388ee54b

“Putin’s obsessed about Ukraine, and that has been visible for years,” said the central European security official. “But if you look at [the demands Putin made of the west before invading], it’s not just Ukraine. The second was effectively about rendering central and eastern Europe a buffer again.”
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 28, 2022, 03:04:02 PM
i haven't commented much on this as it's more complex than a basic black, white, goodie and baddie type scenario and there have been Neo Nazi elements of the Ukranian Army that have attacked Ethnic Russians in Ukraine such as the Azov Regiment, well known for being Neo Nazi's...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)

In saying that Putin is a cheek off the same arse, whose every bit as right wing as those he professes to be trying to rid Ukraine from, his confidant and advisor Aleksandr Dugin is a well known for his support for fascism;

https://medium.com/intelligence-challenged/putins-rasputin-the-dangerous-mind-of-aleksandr-dugin-d02290ba6045 (https://medium.com/intelligence-challenged/putins-rasputin-the-dangerous-mind-of-aleksandr-dugin-d02290ba6045)

In the meantime, the ordinary Joe Public will pay for their lives due to these deranged lunatics in positions of power.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on February 28, 2022, 03:29:47 PM
Liz Truss should stick to talking about cheese.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on February 28, 2022, 03:57:59 PM
Putins sticking points;

– recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea
– demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian state
– ensuring its neutral status

Hard to see the Ukrainians going for that.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: HiMucker on February 28, 2022, 04:21:19 PM
Putins sticking points;

– recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea
– demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian state
– ensuring its neutral status

Hard to see the Ukrainians going for that.
Crimea is never going back in to Ukrainian hands. Never ever going to happen. The people there overwhelmingly want Russian rule anyway. I think that is the easiest one on the list for them to concede. They should build that one up though as a massive concession.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2022, 08:04:02 PM
Putins sticking points;

– recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea
– demilitarization and denazification of the Ukrainian state
– ensuring its neutral status

Hard to see the Ukrainians going for that.
Crimea is never going back in to Ukrainian hands. Never ever going to happen. The people there overwhelmingly want Russian rule anyway. I think that is the easiest one on the list for them to concede. They should build that one up though as a massive concession.
Crimea should be in return for land of equivalent value on the Black Sea coast of Russia
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2022, 08:10:58 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/434d2077-5c29-4178-8a45-e543b3687d77

“Their attacking approach didn’t play to Russian tactics in the beginning [of the war] so the obvious recourse is fall back to a strategy that does work,” said Henry Boyd, a military expert at the International institute for Strategic Studies. “Kharkiv is already taking military barrages.” Analysts and officials have been warning that Russia’s setbacks, while spurring Ukrainian resistance, increased the chance of heavy bombardment and possibly assaults using thermobaric weapons, which use oxygen from the surrounding air to generate an intense, high-temperature explosion. Social media posts on Monday also appeared to show TOS-1 heavy flame throwers positioned outside the besieged southern city of Mariupol.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: balladmaker on February 28, 2022, 09:13:39 PM
We've all heard the story ref. never cornering a rat ... in the same way, the west needs to be careful to allow Putin a way out, otherwise we might all face the fallout from what he could do next, and that fallout could be nuclear in nature.  We've heard it all before, 'Putin won't do this, he would never do that' ... up until now, he was went on and done most of those things said he would never do ... a full on invasion of Ukraine, taking Crimea as his own ... he knows no boundaries, and it is best that he is not cornered whatever way this plays out. 

Putin doesn't seem to have the Russian public with him on this crusade, and maybe not the full might of the military either.

I wonder if anyone in the upper echelons of Russian military have the balls to take Putin down.  How does Putin prevent a military coup in Russia should he order a nuclear strike?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on February 28, 2022, 09:43:29 PM
I would feel the same about cornering and all the countries giving arms to Ukraine is not going to help but what do you do. The man is insane. I almost wonder would someone from within stop him too. We can only hope :(

So truss was the one who made him play the nuclear card. Is there no end to the damage tories do >:(
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 28, 2022, 10:43:15 PM
Why he need a buffer zone anyway, who in his imaginary head going to attack Russia. Its not as if the old german 🇩🇪 blitzkrieg war machine up and running. And I safety sau there more neo nazis in Russia than Ukraine judging by their football supporters.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: drillsergeant on February 28, 2022, 10:50:45 PM
I would feel the same about cornering and all the countries giving arms to Ukraine is not going to help but what do you do. The man is insane. I almost wonder would someone from within stop him too. We can only hope :(

So truss was the one who made him play the nuclear card. Is there no end to the damage tories do >:(

I am surprised USA hasn’t given Ukraine a Iron Dome missile system or THAAD missile defence system which Israel and South Korea have. Also have the Russian not learnt from the invasion of Afghanistan in the 80’s??
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 01, 2022, 07:57:16 AM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498371877726613504 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1498371877726613504)

Part 2
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498372359568470020 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1498372359568470020)

Noam Chomsky on how we got here

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 08:17:25 AM
Ukraine will be reconstructed real nice when all of this is over. There will be loads of work for plasterers.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 09:24:59 AM
Ukraine will be reconstructed real nice when all of this is over. There will be loads of work for plasterers.

What an utterly bizarre and insensitive statement. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on March 01, 2022, 10:55:46 AM
Ukraine will be reconstructed real nice when all of this is over. There will be loads of work for plasterers.

What an utterly bizarre and insensitive statement.

Sure it's only a cultural war.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on March 01, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
The global  far right see putin as their leader
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on March 01, 2022, 11:00:50 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 11:04:33 AM
Who is next? This isn't going to stop at Ukraine.
Putin wants a buffer zone. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RedHand88 on March 01, 2022, 11:33:04 AM
Who is next? This isn't going to stop at Ukraine.
Putin wants a buffer zone.

Problem is he has nowhere to go now that isn't EU or NATO.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:33:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on March 01, 2022, 12:49:17 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:51:51 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
They are
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: burdizzo on March 01, 2022, 12:52:10 PM
The global  far right see putin as their leader

Complete rubbish.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:52:37 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: smort on March 01, 2022, 12:54:07 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They are legally obligated to
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 12:56:46 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They are legally obligated to

Again - And .... - they certainly won't.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Hereiam on March 01, 2022, 12:56:57 PM
He will take Moldova as well as they are not part of Nato, are land locked, poor economy and Russia already has a break away state established here.
After that who knows
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Taylor on March 01, 2022, 01:00:48 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They would go after him for sure - they have to.

Putin knows this which is why he wont attack countries in NATO.

Sanctions are fine for them - they dont have to get their hands dirty.

While Ukraine is holding firm at the moment unfortunately I dont think this will last for much longer unless they get military help (not just being given weapons).

Putin will soon be in control of Ukraine - there will still be elements fighting against him but once he gains control what next for him?

Hard to see the end goal
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 01, 2022, 01:05:57 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They would go after him for sure - they have to.

Putin knows this which is why he wont attack countries in NATO.

Sanctions are fine for them - they dont have to get their hands dirty.

While Ukraine is holding firm at the moment unfortunately I dont think this will last for much longer unless they get military help (not just being given weapons).

Putin will soon be in control of Ukraine - there will still be elements fighting against him but once he gains control what next for him?

Hard to see the end goal
Yes there has definitely been an escalation in use of missiles and cluster bombs as well as convoys of Chechen headers so it must only be a matter of "when" not "if" they are overrun. He'll want to push ahead aggressively by any means necessary rather than drag it out. If he achieves it without NATO laying a glove on him then he coule certainly look at other land grabs.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 01:09:43 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They would go after him for sure - they have to.

Putin knows this which is why he wont attack countries in NATO.

Sanctions are fine for them - they dont have to get their hands dirty.

While Ukraine is holding firm at the moment unfortunately I dont think this will last for much longer unless they get military help (not just being given weapons).

Putin will soon be in control of Ukraine - there will still be elements fighting against him but once he gains control what next for him?

Hard to see the end goal


But I thought Trump said last week that it was a genius move!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 01:12:50 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?
They are
With Belarus in lockstep with Russia the only thing linking the Baltic states to the rest of Europe is a 65km stretch of border with Poland called the Suwalki corridor.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 01:19:39 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/e51014c3-0b97-4a3d-8a19-bc49b3ccd042

Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine’s president, accused Russia of war crimes after a missile hit the centre of Kharkiv in one of the most destructive attacks on a densely populated urban area since Moscow launched its military offensive. Stung by five days of unexpectedly slow progress, Russia has shifted its approach, pouring more troops and armour into Ukraine and stepping up its use of artillery and other unguided weapons on cities including Kharkiv, Chernihiv, and Kherson.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 01, 2022, 01:20:10 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They are legally obligated to

Again - And .... - they certainly won't.

The whole concept of NATO is built around Article V, I’m not sure how they could justify ignoring it if it was invoked.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on March 01, 2022, 01:57:08 PM
can putin keep control in ukraine with the numbers he has without committing a genocide and do they expect people to just listen to a new leader
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 01, 2022, 02:00:50 PM
500k people have fled the Ukraine. What's the population - 41 million plus? I don't see how there is not mass genocide going to happen here if it hasn't already  :(
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 02:10:37 PM
can putin keep control in ukraine with the numbers he has without committing a genocide and do they expect people to just listen to a new leader


No chance. Irrespective of the immorality of it all, it already looks like political suicide. Doomed to failure. Most certainly not the genius that Trump hailed him as last week.

He will have spawned generations of resentment and hatred from Ukrainians over the illegitimate invasion of their own nation. How could he have miscalculated that they would roll over and have their tummies tickled or did he learn nothing from history. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 02:28:00 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They are legally obligated to

Again - And .... - they certainly won't.

The whole concept of NATO is built around Article V, I’m not sure how they could justify ignoring it if it was invoked.

Certain WW111 - would the American public and politicians justify this because a country 8000km away was being invaded.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 02:36:25 PM
Article V assumes respect for the rule  of law and sovereignty which Putin has just trashed. Putin is using the threat of nuclear war to hold off the West and get his way. The international order is broken.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 02:47:17 PM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?

They are legally obligated to

Again - And .... - they certainly won't.

The whole concept of NATO is built around Article V, I’m not sure how they could justify ignoring it if it was invoked.

Certain WW111 - would the American public and politicians justify this because a country 8000km away was being invaded.

America is a completely divided society so there will never be unanimity on the correct approach. However if NATO failed to take military action against an invasion of one of their own member states, then their credibility would be on the floor.

The far right in America will cling to whatever they are being told by Fox News and Trump. Up until recent days they were inclined to side with Putin's genius over their own administration such is their disdain for the Democrats and what they deem as an illegitimate president. Trump and his political cronies will only be convinced to turn against Putin if it is in their own self interest to do so. That will likely happen once it becomes evident that Putin is a beaten docket or public opinion has turned against him so much that it is no longer expedient to cosy up to him. Trump will not want to be on the losing side again and will attempt to change the narrative accordingly to suit.   
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: lenny on March 01, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.

It’s more likely to be some of the other powerful oligarchs who’ve been hit with serious sanctions who group together to move against him. The problem is most of those have got where they are because they are very loyal to him. Any hint of disloyalty from them and they know how ruthless Putin is so they have to tread carefully. You can be sure that at the moment Putin is completely paranoid and more than likely trusts no one.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armamike on March 01, 2022, 03:56:18 PM
This is playing out a little like ancient Rome. Caesar needs taken out by one of his own.  Money and power will likely trump loyalty at some point.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 04:02:33 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.

Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict. You could well be right in that it may take something like this to remove his hands from the levers of power. War crimes being committed in their name and being treated as a pariah state with no allies will not sit well with ordinary folk. That is the best case scenario.

The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.   
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 01, 2022, 04:05:46 PM
Exactly to the latter. I just don't know how this is going to end but it's not going to end well  :(
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Taylor on March 01, 2022, 04:19:40 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.

Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict. You could well be right in that it may take something like this to remove his hands from the levers of power. War crimes being committed in their name and being treated as a pariah state with no allies will not sit well with ordinary folk. That is the best case scenario.

The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.

I agree, however the ordinary folk in Russia have zero say - you could see that with the response to protests in Russia last week - just arrest them.

And then commentators saying how brave they were to simply go out on the street and have a peaceful protest about the Ukranian invasion - imagine the outcome if there was anything stronger than a peaceful protest.

If Putin was taken out would this all be over?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armamike on March 01, 2022, 04:51:12 PM
The Russians have a good track record of ruthlessly removing their leaders when it suits. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: yellowcard on March 01, 2022, 04:53:40 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.

Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict. You could well be right in that it may take something like this to remove his hands from the levers of power. War crimes being committed in their name and being treated as a pariah state with no allies will not sit well with ordinary folk. That is the best case scenario.

The worst case scenario does not bear thinking about.

I agree, however the ordinary folk in Russia have zero say - you could see that with the response to protests in Russia last week - just arrest them.

And then commentators saying how brave they were to simply go out on the street and have a peaceful protest about the Ukranian invasion - imagine the outcome if there was anything stronger than a peaceful protest.

If Putin was taken out would this all be over?

I think it would depend on just how intolerable life became for ordinary Russian folk. If Putin engages in a long protracted war whereby the Russian economy enters hyper inflation, the army suffers sizable losses, mass poverty kicks in at home due to ongoing sanctions and they lose all semblance of contact with the outside world, then their anger will have to be directed somewhere. Things will need to get a whole lot worse within Russia before peaceful protest translates into mass insurrection but nobody can predict the future with any great certainty. All it takes is some other unforeseen event to change the narrative entirely so it would be foolish to rule anything out at this stage. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 01, 2022, 04:54:48 PM
Like a NATO no fly zone  ??? I wonder is that coming and is it effectively then WW3.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 01, 2022, 05:05:08 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/e32aaff8-af24-46e1-8c7c-2a7d09387e45

China signalled it was ready to play a role in finding a ceasefire in Ukraine as it “deplored” the outbreak of conflict in its strongest comments yet on the war.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 01, 2022, 05:29:08 PM
I see buffer zone mentioned, Excately a buffer zone from who? Missiles, Jets and heavy bombers make buffers zones redundant. Its not a rerun of world war 2 here where the biggest tank and best fighter plane was king. 2
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2022, 05:41:18 PM
I see buffer zone mentioned, Excately a buffer zone from who? Missiles, Jets and heavy bombers make buffers zones redundant. Its not a rerun of world war 2 here where the biggest tank and best fighter plane was king. 2

I’d say it’s gonna be something like the DMZ between north and south Vietnam during the war but your right it didn’t stop the USA sending b52s to Hanoi.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: HiMucker on March 01, 2022, 06:40:52 PM
https://twitter.com/danict89/status/1498726365159374849?s=21

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on March 01, 2022, 06:43:57 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.

Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict.

Food prices rising and mortgage interest gone to 20%!!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 01, 2022, 07:12:00 PM
Putin is like a cornered rat so he has to win whatever the cost. If we thought things were ugly since last Thursday he is about to seriously up the ante with this convoy heading to Kyiv. He isn't about to suddenly admit I made a mistake, sorry about that, we'll pack up and go home. Like the gambler with a busted flush, he is all in. The question is what happens next?

He needs to be removed and the only way that will happen is from within Russia. It will take a serious mobilisation of ordinary decent Russian citizens who have disdain for him over the years even before this war to rise up. Hard to see that happening given the grip he has on them and sources of information. Unfortunately, serious change can only come from within Russia itself.

Ordinary Russians will end up paying the price economically and a mass insurrection may be likelier than many predict.

Food prices rising and mortgage interest gone to 20%!!

But the state controlled media will blame the west and the anger will be directed there, unless China has a word nothing will change the Yanks are not going to do anything nor will NATO and no one will topple him.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2022, 07:50:05 PM
https://twitter.com/danict89/status/1498726365159374849?s=21

Holy f**k! See the shock wave? :o

Don't even want to imagine the damage that did.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2022, 08:46:45 PM
Listening to NY Times The Daily podcast today.

Interviews with young Ukrainian men who were not allowed to leave as all men 18-60 have to stay and fight.

Just regular people, regular jobs. One hoping to work for Pixar one day. One said he’d been making plans to go buy some PlayStation games this weekend. Ordinary stuff we all do.

One of them even upset about the fact that he may have to kill Russian lads just like himself.

And now they’re forced to take up arms and fight for their homeland due to a corrupt, deranged dictator.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2022, 09:55:06 PM
So from what I gather today:

- Ukrainian drones are doing a serious number on Russian armour. If they can get more bombs and missiles for their TB2s; that big column (or rather, column of columns - its nothing like a continuous 40 miles) approaching Kyev could arrive in a bit of a shambles.

- Russia do not have air superiority and are now tending to operate more at night.

- Ukraine are now going to be receiving full satellite support from the EU, potentially others; giving them a major real-time information boost. This will include satellite radar feeds; somewhat countering the Russian move toward the cover of darkness.

- Russia appear to have used at least one thermobaric bomb; there is a twitter video of it going off; the blast is fairly identifiable.

- Russian state of logistics is a big unknown, apparently numerous tanks etc already ran out of fuel. No doubt others will be restricted in their maneouvres due to fuel concerns. If the Ukrainians can choke off enough of the logistical train, they'll win.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: WT4E on March 01, 2022, 11:09:41 PM
So from what I gather today:

- Ukrainian drones are doing a serious number on Russian armour. If they can get more bombs and missiles for their TB2s; that big column (or rather, column of columns - its nothing like a continuous 40 miles) approaching Kyev could arrive in a bit of a shambles.

- Russia do not have air superiority and are now tending to operate more at night.

- Ukraine are now going to be receiving full satellite support from the EU, potentially others; giving them a major real-time information boost. This will include satellite radar feeds; somewhat countering the Russian move toward the cover of darkness.

- Russia appear to have used at least one thermobaric bomb; there is a twitter video of it going off; the blast is fairly identifiable.

- Russian state of logistics is a big unknown, apparently numerous tanks etc already ran out of fuel. No doubt others will be restricted in their maneouvres due to fuel concerns. If the Ukrainians can choke off enough of the logistical train, they'll win.

Where u get all this info????
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: thewobbler on March 01, 2022, 11:17:07 PM
Reads to me like Ukrainian propaganda, unfortunately
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 01, 2022, 11:40:08 PM
Reads to me like Ukrainian propaganda, unfortunately

Id agree. Dont have to tip too far into twitter to read that Russia are happy enough with progress/only gettin started..
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2022, 11:44:25 PM
To be fair that convoy looks like a sitting duck. Even 100 yr old artillery would do it some major damage so surprised it seems to be inching closer and closer to kiev esp when the ukranians have taken out a number of smaller convoys very successfully
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2022, 11:50:36 PM
Reads to me like Ukrainian propaganda, unfortunately

Id agree. Dont have to tip too far into twitter to read that Russia are happy enough with progress/only gettin started..

Its quite clear that Russia have made a complete f**king mess of this so far. They will eventually prevail but at what cost and when i say prevail ie install a puppet leader who will have no control over the population so a big waste of time.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 07:47:06 AM
I was reading the blacks last thing there - shocking.

There is a real information war at play here. It’s hard to know what to believe any more. I am not convinced Russia are making the progress they want but the reality is it is only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Cavan19 on March 02, 2022, 08:09:09 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 08:34:40 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2022, 08:37:38 AM
Where u get all this info????
edit: Ahh, sorry, I thought you were only looking about the air superiority bit.

Things I've just picked up with a look around the interwebz

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/01/russian-air-force-struggling-to-claim-total-superiority-experts-say-a76694
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 09:27:04 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.

here is the source

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1498322098242134018?t=DhNQiEA0TgD7siUYigsNvg&s=19

note the change in the original post by BBC and what it is now.. "very mean"

https://twitter.com/freedomrideblog/status/1498517917998137345?t=LVAVNgY-3I3ZlOPaELk63A&s=19
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: WT4E on March 02, 2022, 09:31:04 AM
So from what I gather today:

- Ukrainian drones are doing a serious number on Russian armour. If they can get more bombs and missiles for their TB2s; that big column (or rather, column of columns - its nothing like a continuous 40 miles) approaching Kyev could arrive in a bit of a shambles.

- Russia do not have air superiority and are now tending to operate more at night.

- Ukraine are now going to be receiving full satellite support from the EU, potentially others; giving them a major real-time information boost. This will include satellite radar feeds; somewhat countering the Russian move toward the cover of darkness.

- Russia appear to have used at least one thermobaric bomb; there is a twitter video of it going off; the blast is fairly identifiable.

- Russian state of logistics is a big unknown, apparently numerous tanks etc already ran out of fuel. No doubt others will be restricted in their maneouvres due to fuel concerns. If the Ukrainians can choke off enough of the logistical train, they'll win.

These statements after two of Russias biggest bombings from the air during the day???
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2022, 10:06:10 AM
If he went onto Estonia who would challenge him, it would be another Ukraine.
Are they not in NATO?

And ... you honestly think the yanks or the Brits are going go after him if he strays into Estonia?
What message does that send to the other smaller countries in NATO if the Brits/Americans abandon Estonia or some other Nato member? Hard to know if Putin would have the balls to call NATO’s bluff by attacking a member. The thing could totally spiral very quickly as soon as he does. Moldova a likely next target as they aren’t in NATO.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2022, 10:07:23 AM
I'd say the right wing extremist gobsh1tes in Government in Hungary and Poland are now happy to be in the EU !
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2022, 10:07:30 AM
Russia got bogged down so is now bombing the shit out of everything. I wonder when the first attacks in Russia will.startm
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 02, 2022, 11:26:21 AM
Russia got bogged down so is now bombing the shit out of everything. I wonder when the first attacks in Russia will.startm
I doubt there will be much happening in Russia for now as all focus is on defending Ukraine but once Russia have a 'puppet' in control I would expect all sorts of guerilla attacks in Ukraine and Russia. Russia has millions of Ukrainians living there. It could get very messy which makes you think Putin has put zero thought into this.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 11:42:01 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 11:46:29 AM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet

Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 02, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2022, 12:21:45 PM

These statements after two of Russias biggest bombings from the air during the day???

If they cannot stop the Ukrainian drones do they have air superiority?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Eire90 on March 02, 2022, 12:22:29 PM
rumours that russia may want to install vickor yanokovich as puppet leader the guy that was kicked out and fled to russia in 2014.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: naka on March 02, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2022, 12:50:26 PM
Who cares? As if preference for your own kind is the worst thing going on here. Get a grip.

Wow.
The 0.8% spouting their usual  "Christian" hate.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 01:05:46 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on March 02, 2022, 01:43:05 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:44:10 PM
Racism/separation under the banner of border controls are institutionalised procedures at every european country's point of entry.
What's curious here is that in a country under a state of war, hierarchies of race are amplified, with appalling results.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: naka on March 02, 2022, 01:50:25 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 01:57:09 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.
 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2022, 02:29:22 PM
Scary to think that russian people now can’t buy anything online, all visa, mastercard, apple pay etc has been blocked for them. Cash is and always will be king.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 02:43:01 PM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet

Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
And what’s my agenda? You wouldn’t happen to know anyone called Sid?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba... 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2022, 02:53:25 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
lots of rumors coming out of Ukraine, not much verified, the usual suckers are all over it .
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:24:12 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
lots of rumors coming out of Ukraine, not much verified, the usual suckers are all over it .

Including the Nigerian president.

(I've no idea if that lends credibility or not).
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:28:08 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who  knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: clarshack on March 02, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who  knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.

That's why it's better to stay neutral.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 03:38:11 PM
I wouldn't go that far - this thing looks like a massacre right in front of our eyes :(

On that note there's so much about NATO and "the west" and this has been the plan all along too. An awful load of misinformation everywhere you look.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 03:44:15 PM
Good thread on Twitter
https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 03:48:27 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who  knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.

That's why it's better to stay neutral.

What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.

There's no neutral position on that.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2022, 03:53:10 PM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.

Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.

https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21

edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.

I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2022, 04:33:42 PM
BBC/CNN/Aljazeera reporting African and Caribbean students (studying in Ukraine) not being allowed or delayed at borders out of Ukraine. Claiming Racism.
lots of rumors coming out of Ukraine, not much verified, the usual suckers are all over it .

Including the Nigerian president.

(I've no idea if that lends credibility or not).
Nigeria signed a military agreement with Russia last year regarding training and selling equipment so they are probably compromised too.lots of propaganda everywhere.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 02, 2022, 05:42:21 PM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet

Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
And what’s my agenda? You wouldn’t happen to know anyone called Sid?

Wouldn't know or care, what I do know is you can't read.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.

Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.

https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21

edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.

I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.

Those snippets are very interesting and informative, for sure, in terms of how those people predicted Russia could react to NATO expansion.

However, surely the Ukrainians have to get a say in what their country does in terms of international alignments and memberships?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2022, 05:49:19 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who  knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.

That's why it's better to stay neutral.

What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.

There's no neutral position on that.

This is not a case of "one side is as bad as the other", just as you often hear about the 6 counties. Whatever points of detail may be unclear, one country invaded a smaller one and killed thousands of its civilians, and you cannot be neutral about that. 
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2022, 06:25:57 PM
Neutral, oh let me, see, a large neighbour invades another, refuses to give it up, sound familiar. Oh yes forgot thats Ireland. So a section of the country wants to stay with its large Neighbour as the majority in that area are aligned to them. Oh yes see Protestant majority and formation of Northern Ireland. And we not backing Ukraine losing parts of their country. Makes Chris Hazzard stance a tad stupid. And them idiots waving soviet flags in Derry.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: clonadmad on March 02, 2022, 06:32:09 PM
Scary to think that russian people now can’t buy anything online, all visa, mastercard, apple pay etc has been blocked for them. Cash is and always will be king.

Just wait till you hear about what happened the Rouble
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2022, 06:34:17 PM
Problem as anywhere, is not the Russian people in general, they fed the state line like China,North Korea, in a way, they programmed to the govt way of thinking. Look at some of the shit Trump spouted and got 60million people to vote for him. Communism abit like the Borg in Star Trek, you be assimilated.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2022, 06:45:18 PM
They’re cutting the news to ordinary Russian folk to try and pretend there is no war. Also, and this comes directly from Russians my wife works with, they are lifting people on the street and making sure that even if they aren’t protesting they aren’t going to and beating the crap out of them.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2022, 07:34:52 PM
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2022/03/02/statement-from-roman-abramovich
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 08:31:35 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you  who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.

Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"

I wrote  that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"


Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 08:37:14 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who  knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.

That's why it's better to stay neutral.

What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.

There's no neutral position on that.
Even Switzerland has come out of a comatose neutrality  and has taken a principled stand
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 08:39:51 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you  who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.

Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"

I wrote  that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"

 they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

Read the first 4 lines,
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 02, 2022, 08:42:07 PM
I saw a very compelling thread on it on twitter last night with a Ukranian guy who is out of the country and who's sister is adopted from an african country. It seemed real to me but who  knows what is real any more. Photos with dubious dates, different sources all saying different things about successes of invasions, shelling being talked about into civilian territory when it's the opposition firing from there and the list goes on. It really is so hard to know what is real any more.

That's why it's better to stay neutral.

What is absolutely clear is that Putin took it upon himself to invade a peaceful, democratic country and murder its people.

There's no neutral position on that.
Even Switzerland has come out of a comatose neutrality  and has taken a principled stand

there is no principled stance when Palestine, Yemen, Syria, afganistan and others suffered or are suffering from conflicts with little or no support from the international community...
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 02, 2022, 10:23:04 PM
A lot of racism directed at those fleeing across the border with Poland.
Ukrainians first, everyone else after and blacks last.

Source?

You don't need a source nowadays, one can just post any oul shite.
Good man. Maybe get your news from somewhere other than BBC or RTE. Clampet

Yeah because some tool like yourself with an agenda will be spot on.
And what’s my agenda? You wouldn’t happen to know anyone called Sid?

Wouldn't know or care, what I do know is you can't read.
Eh, ok.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Main Street on March 02, 2022, 10:45:26 PM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you  who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.

Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"

I wrote  that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"

 they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

Read the first 4 lines,
what I wrote afterwards was prefaced by "I interpret that".

You're all over the place with no focus, no accuracy and shifting arguments.
A perfect candidate for the ignore list.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2022, 11:16:41 PM
Nolan watching too much of the film wargames. Shit stirring at it's worst. Am old enough to remember the cold War in the 80's
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2022, 07:41:17 AM


https://www.ft.com/content/cfcfb51f-be3b-4eae-a922-948e89e12610

Roman Abramovich has put Chelsea football club up for sale after 19 years of ownership, waiving £1.5bn it owes him and pledging to donate proceeds of the sale to victims of the war in Ukraine.

Abramovich’s Fordstam
entity, through which he owns Chelsea, has accumulated losses of almost £1.1bn through June 2021. Fordstam has close to £1.5bn in debt in the form of loans from Abramovich.


 :)
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 03, 2022, 08:28:27 AM
see mick wallace and claire daly voted against teh resolution which  condemning the invasion and calling for eu staus for ukraine.
a right pair the both of them

Do we all remember the vote on Mediterranean rescue mission in 2019? who voted what way and the outcomes for those refugees...

here is the Wallace and Daly statement where they outline their anti war stance.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1498682774148026368?t=UL8o1mfNlmS7wenbyDxRRA&s=19
So you can’t condemn an invasion and pro dialogue at the same time!
abstain might have been a better stance
 my view was to vote no was wrong in this circumstance
They also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict, instead they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

that is not what they said... more weapons more death... they provided examples of Afganistan and Liyba...
It is you  who has not read that part of their statement with any degree of accuracy. Instead you interpreted what they wrote.

Mick & Claire, "the policy of flooding Ukraine with weapons will lead to a permanent condition of conflict"

I wrote  that Mick & Claire "also condemned providing military aid to Ukraine because in their eyes it will lead to a permanent military conflict"

 they promote diplomacy and a negotiated peace.  I interpret that as wanting Ukraine to surrender immediately (as resistance would be futile and costly)  and sue for some settlement from their much weakened position.

Read the first 4 lines,
what I wrote afterwards was prefaced by "I interpret that".

You're all over the place with no focus, no accuracy and shifting arguments.
A perfect candidate for the ignore list.

OK I'll Try and be clearer, for someone who can interrupt what you did despite what wallace and daly wrote in their first paragraph im not surprised you have trouble interrupting me...

more weapons is more death, they are promoting peace with (in their 1st paragraph) stating that Russia immediately terminate all military activity in Ukraine and unconditional withdrawal from Ukraine... there is no call for ukraine to surrender, it is not that resistence is futile... war is... only the weapons industry wins..  don't put gasoline on the fire... your interpretation is the only thing all over the place .
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 08:28:42 AM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.

Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.

https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21

edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.

I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.

Those snippets are very interesting and informative, for sure, in terms of how those people predicted Russia could react to NATO expansion.

However, surely the Ukrainians have to get a say in what their country does in terms of international alignments and memberships?

During the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent breakup of the Soviet union under Mikhail Gorbachev Noam Chomskey talked of this as far back as 2014 or 2015 that the agreement reached then was that NATO would not go any further East than the new Germany.

The western power brokers have pushed and pushed these boundaries for decades and whilst yes, its up to each sovereign state to make it's own decisions, do you honestly think if Mexico came to an agreement with the Russians to place missiles on Mexican soil that there wouldn't be some sort of similar pushback from the US considering what they're still doing to a small Caribbean island that didn't want its resources stripped bare by US conglomerates..

Putin is a power hungry animal, but he's been backed into a corner and the Ukrainians are getting the brunt of this East-West power battle.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 03, 2022, 08:55:07 AM
There is no doubt some aspect of NATO at play here but it's the ukranians that have suffered and will continue to suffer for a very long time and Putin has displayed himself to be a complete madman(we knew he was just not how much) as well with a war that doesn't even *appear* to be backed by his own country.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 03, 2022, 09:00:35 AM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: NAG1 on March 03, 2022, 09:16:19 AM
This has nothing to do with the Western expansion as Russia is spouting, it is all to do with Putin and his desire to return to the old Soviet era borders and level of control.

The placement of any missiles/ military along Russia's borders means nothing when multiple countries have the capabilities to strike any city in Russia from pretty much anywhere. So that argument does not stack up. 

I dont see any end game here for either side.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: WT4E on March 03, 2022, 09:21:22 AM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21

Read that thread an makes sense but where are the people of the East in Ukraine celebrating being liberated? Aren't they happy or maybe the news we get is not showing that?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 09:29:38 AM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21

Read that thread an makes sense but where are the people of the East in Ukraine celebrating being liberated? Aren't they happy or maybe the news we get is not showing that?

The thread kind of ignores what the majority of people of Ukraine want now. Crimea was overwhelming pro russian but had a sizeable ukranian minority which the author conveniently ignored. Its annex has some quite strong parallells to the sick counties
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 09:41:30 AM
There is no doubt some aspect of NATO at play here but it's the ukranians that have suffered and will continue to suffer for a very long time and Putin has displayed himself to be a complete madman(we knew he was just not how much) as well with a war that doesn't even *appear* to be backed by his own country.

Blair took the UK into Iraq and there were huge demonstrations against it in London. Didn't stop him though.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2022, 09:56:29 AM
This explains (by folks far better versed in realpolitik than me) better than I ever did my point about Putin's state of mind.

Of course, yer man since departed wouldn't entertain it.

https://twitter.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1498491107902062592?s=21

edit: Better put this here for those that will jump on it.

I am not condoning in any way shape or form the actions of Putin. Its deplorable and I wish a Russian general or advisor would step up to the plate and put a 9mm in his head for the good of everyone, Russian, Ukrainian and otherwise.
I'm explaining the state of mind and how we've got to this point.

Those snippets are very interesting and informative, for sure, in terms of how those people predicted Russia could react to NATO expansion.

However, surely the Ukrainians have to get a say in what their country does in terms of international alignments and memberships?

During the collapse of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent breakup of the Soviet union under Mikhail Gorbachev Noam Chomskey talked of this as far back as 2014 or 2015 that the agreement reached then was that NATO would not go any further East than the new Germany.

The western power brokers have pushed and pushed these boundaries for decades and whilst yes, its up to each sovereign state to make it's own decisions, do you honestly think if Mexico came to an agreement with the Russians to place missiles on Mexican soil that there wouldn't be some sort of similar pushback from the US considering what they're still doing to a small Caribbean island that didn't want its resources stripped bare by US conglomerates..

Putin is a power hungry animal, but he's been backed into a corner and the Ukrainians are getting the brunt of this East-West power battle.

Of course, absolutely.

But it basically means that small countries that sit on the doorstep of super powers are basically subservient to the wishes and perceived needs of their larger neighbour. What they want themselves only counts within those parameters or “guidelines”.

Which I guess is just stating the bleeding obvious. You don’t have to look further then our own history.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 11:57:50 AM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 01:07:34 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

None of this however is the fault of the innocent Ukranians and Russians who are suffering and will suffer. Putin is a vile bastard.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: general_lee on March 03, 2022, 01:31:42 PM
Another good Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1498886454285463555?s=21

Read that thread an makes sense but where are the people of the East in Ukraine celebrating being liberated? Aren't they happy or maybe the news we get is not showing that?

The thread kind of ignores what the majority of people of Ukraine want now. Crimea was overwhelming pro russian but had a sizeable ukranian minority which the author conveniently ignored. Its annex has some quite strong parallells to the sick counties
I don’t think it does, in fact it explicitly states that the country is virtually split between pro-west/pro-Russian. The Crimean region was transferred to Ukraine in 1954 under USSR which obviously didn’t matter much then as it was still Soviet territory. I don’t think it is any sort of parallel to the north… it would be like Britain giving Merseyside to Ireland pre independence and then deciding after 1922 that they wanted it back.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2022, 01:36:24 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

None of this however is the fault of the innocent Ukranians and Russians who are suffering and will suffer. Putin is a vile bastard.

Time moves on and while at the time those countries were happy enough not to be part of NATO but they do now, it’s still not the right of Russia to impose their will on other countries which are not their own.

Russians are taught at an early age about the enemies, a bit like every country has a bogey man, theirs was/is the West!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2022, 02:20:37 PM
Only one Country ever used Nuclear weapons (on 2 civilian targets).
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2022, 02:35:04 PM
Only one Country ever used Nuclear weapons (on 2 civilian targets).
Something that always gets swept under the carpet. Although have been reading a few posts elsewhere that argue that the nuke being used in Japan stopped any more major conflicts between super powers and saved thousands if not millions of lives
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 02:49:20 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

And if you're Iranian you can't get Nukes quick enough to keep the other f**kers out of your lands.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 02:49:43 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

Who has Iran ever gone to war with?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 02:52:15 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

Who has Iran ever gone to war with?

Iraq, after the Yanks decided they didn't like their buddy, the Shah getting overthrown, so they gave Saddam a load of nasty weapons, chemical and all which he used on the Kurds and Iranians.

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

Who has Iran ever gone to war with?

Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on March 03, 2022, 02:59:20 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:25:27 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)


Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 03:28:06 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

Who has Iran ever gone to war with?

Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other

So none then.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:35:16 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...

https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: blasmere on March 03, 2022, 03:45:24 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

Who has Iran ever gone to war with?

Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other

So none then.

Iraq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council.)
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2022, 03:45:42 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...

https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)

So these countries are being forced to join Nato?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 03:50:28 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...

https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)

So these countries are being forced to join Nato?

Who said that?

Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 03:52:38 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine

He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded

Go figure


Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2022, 04:03:06 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine

He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded

Go figure


Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato

Plus Georgia Sweden and Finland all now thinking about NATO. So all in all a complete f**k up by vlad
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on March 03, 2022, 04:45:08 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

Who has Iran ever gone to war with?

Currently iran and saudi messing behind the scenes all over the middle east to try and gain the upper hand over each other

So none then.

Iraq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=The%20war%20lasted%20for%20almost,the%20United%20Nations%20Security%20Council.)

They were invaded by Iraq.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2022, 05:06:59 PM
Garry Kasparov:

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499088993736138754?s=20&t=ynHrJWADxw1NxOPipNj12A (https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499088993736138754?s=20&t=ynHrJWADxw1NxOPipNj12A)

Putin's war on Ukraine has entered its next phase, one of destruction and slaughter of civilians. It is also a part of Putin's World War, a war on the civilized world of international law, democracy, and any threat to his power, which he declared long ago.

The free world's denial of this war and decades of appeasement allowed Putin to threaten and conquer abroad while turning Russia into a police state. The price to stop him has gone up every time he has advanced unchallenged. Ukrainians are paying that price in blood.

If Putin is not stopped now, not prevented from destroying Ukraine and committing genocide against its people, there will be a next time and it will be in NATO, with an unprecedented nuclear threat. Do not let Putin escalate again in a time and place of his choosing.

Everyone is quoting my 2015 book Winter Is Coming and saying I was right & "listen to Kasparov". But will you still listen when I say this will take sacrifice and risk? Not just wheat and gas prices, not just empty chalets and unemployed lobbyists. Easy is over.

Or will you say that I am irrational, blinded by hate, as I heard in 2015? I hope not. Putin must be stopped because the unthinkable is now the possible. The world has awoken, at long last, and many steps I recommended last week are happening. It's not enough.

My recommendations:

1 I cannot demand NATO attack Russian forces directly, but I can speak from history & knowledge of Putin. A dictator who has already crossed every line cannot be prevented from escalating with restraint. If he destroys Ukraine, he won't stop.

2 We are not trying to appeal to the murderer in his bunker in the Urals. The message is to those who carry out his orders. Will they? Do they all wish to die? Putin will escalate anyway if he is not stopped now. He will, as he always has before, & the price will be higher. 7/13

3 Send Russia to the technological stone age. No support, no parts, no services. Oil boycotts aren't necessary if oil tech is unavailable. The industry will grind to a halt. This means a war footing in sacrificing, retooling & increasing production to substitute. It's war.

4 It's always tragic that ordinary people suffer, but they are not being bombed in their homes like Ukrainians. Every element of Russian society that can pressure Putin must know they have to choose between him & everything else. Some will cling to him, but for how long?

5 Clear message to Russian generals that they will suffer annihilation if one inch of NATO is touched. Send UKR every weapon, including the jets that have been blocked, as if Putin cares about the difference. Stop guessing about his thoughts and do what is needed. 10/13

6 Every day Ukraine endures gives opportunity to communicate this catastrophe to the only people who can really stop Putin, the Russian people, from oligarchs to commanders to protestors. Let all in the power vertical know they will be treated as war criminals. They are.

7 Leave nothing in reserve. Speed is of the essence to stop payments and catch them and their assets before they hide. Threats like "he doesn't know what's coming" don't work if Putin doesn't believe you. Show him. And show Russians there is no way back with Putin. Never.

8 Root out the corrupt politicians, businessmen & dark money that corrupted a generation to turn a blind eye or serve authoritarian regimes. Follow the donations, payments, gifts, influence. Hold them accountable. Down with Putin & his appeasers, glory to Ukraine.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2022, 05:16:45 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did

You don’t give them up

Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else

Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 03, 2022, 05:22:44 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did

You don’t give them up

Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else

Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don’t need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2022, 05:46:26 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did

You don’t give them up

Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else

Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don’t need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.

Which pretty much secures the Kim family in power for ever more, bar some asteroid strike or one of them actually initiating a nuclear war.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2022, 06:00:21 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did

You don’t give them up

Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else

Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don’t need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.

Which pretty much secures the Kim family in power for ever more, bar some asteroid strike or one of them actually initiating a nuclear war.
Nukes are no protection against a popular uprising. That is what will probably take the Kim's down

Nukes won't save Israeli apartheid either
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2022, 06:18:43 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine

He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded

Go figure


Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato

Plus Georgia Sweden and Finland all now thinking about NATO. So all in all a complete f**k up by vlad

Totally, hard to see how this pans out positively for Putin from a strategic POV. He's backed himself into a corner with his show of strength and needed to be the hard man. but I can't how this ends well for him.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: blasmere on March 03, 2022, 06:51:56 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

When Putin is fully finished with invading Ukraine

He will have a border with Nato 4-6 times the length of the border with Nato before he invaded

Go figure


Plus a mass insurrection in that country and a fully engaged Nato

Plus Georgia Sweden and Finland all now thinking about NATO. So all in all a complete f**k up by vlad

Totally, hard to see how this pans out positively for Putin from a strategic POV. He's backed himself into a corner with his show of strength and needed to be the hard man. but I can't how this ends well for him.

At some point hopefully someone in the inner circle will turn on him. He seems isolated even there, at the end of that long table on his own, not even wanting to breath the same air as them, humiliating the intelligence chief who looked like he was bricking it, shades of Stalin.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2022, 07:04:13 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/four-irish-babies-born-to-surrogate-mothers-in-kyiv-evacuated-from-ukraine-1.4817766Four Irish babies born to surrogate mothers in Ukraine in recent days have been safely evacuated from the war-torn country, The Irish Times understands.

The infants, including a set of twins, were brought by medical staff on the 24-hour journey from the Russian-targeted Ukrainian capital Kyiv to the country’s southwestern border.

The children, who are all Irish citizens, were united with their Irish parents after the couples were flown to Romania on Wednesday night on an Irish Air Corps PC-12 aircraft in an operation described by sources as “humanitarian” in nature.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Defence have declined to comment. A spokesman for Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney said he could not comment on consular issues.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2022, 07:15:58 PM
One big lesson here don’t let Iran get nukes .

The big lesson here is that if you have nukes like what Ukraine did

You don’t give them up

Regardless of what guarantees you get from the Russians or anyone else

Something the Iranians and North Koreans will have noted
well exactly and you don’t need anymore regimes getting them and threatening nuclear war
I think North Korea already have some nuclear capability.

Which pretty much secures the Kim family in power for ever more, bar some asteroid strike or one of them actually initiating a nuclear war.
Nukes are no protection against a popular uprising. That is what will probably take the Kim's down

Nukes won't save Israeli apartheid either

We can hope. But the Kims have kept their boots on the necks of their people for three generations now, even through devastating famine.

Israel - there'd have to be a massive change in the outlook in America for serious change there I think. Although there is much more dissent than there used to be.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2022, 07:38:03 PM
If Mexico or Canada wanted to join an Alliance with Russia woukd the US say "sovereign Countries can do as they see fit"?
Would they fcuk. As with every conflict in the world you can trace it back to either the Brits or the Americans. Russia was promised 30 years ago when the Berlin wall fell that NATO would not advance one inch eastwards. Now look.

Which treaty or agreement promised this?

Nothing formal as you can read in this article, kinda a gentlemans agreement, initially with Gorbachev and Reagan if I can find the Noam Chomsky video and even Yeltsin warned Clinton at a later date about the perils of NATO expanding eastwards onto its borders.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681 (https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681)

Can't find the video but this article covers that time period and even blames Clinton for pressing for NATO expansions east even though several sources say there was an agreement between Reagan and Gorbachev...

https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/ (https://foreignpolicynews.org/2020/12/13/time-to-roll-back-the-expansion-of-nato/)

So these countries are being forced to join Nato?

Who said that?

Within this post in bold was said that Russian was promised that NATO would not move an inch eastwards, NATO did not force countries to be part of it.

Russia will be looking to take back Alaska at this rate as it would be a buffer zone to the West
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 04, 2022, 12:52:06 AM
Zaporizhzhia Ukraine has the largest Nuclear Plant in Europe.

It is now on fire from Russian shelling.

Scientists stated this could be 10 times worse than Chernobyl
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 04, 2022, 06:04:11 AM
If they are attacking nuclear power plants surely its a sign they want to draw the west into this??
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2022, 07:07:40 AM
I see they've 'taken control' of the nuclear plant. He'll hardly strike it now, or will he?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 04, 2022, 07:09:14 AM
I see they've 'taken control' of the nuclear plant. He'll hardly strike it now, or will he?

Ah OK. Maybe better that way than shelling it!!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: LeoMc on March 04, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
How many Russian missiles are pointed at European capitals?

The refrain of the USA having  "overthrown the elected government & replaced it (with a neo-Nazi regime)"  is straight from RT, even by Russian standards it's bog standard propaganda.
Since the overthrow of the pro Russian government in 2014, pro Russian and pro communist era type international media have labelled the then broadly popular pro EU movement and subsequent Ukrainian governments as being fascist led and pro nazi.The modern history of Ukraine is much more nuanced than those old refrains dating from WW2 and  which equated  being anti bolshevik with pro nazi.
While the Ukraine 'cause' is proving to be a rallying cry for UR militia types to get involved, the ultra right coalition have received scant political support,  in both of the most recent presidential and general elections they polled less than 2%.
Hmm more like Reuters… the Azov battalions have been absorbed into the Ukrainian military. They don’t need nor want political support, not when they’re on the same hymn sheet as the government - bit like the (then legal) UDA here in the north back in the 1980s.
A good summary of the Avov battalion here.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/02/what-is-ukraines-azov-battalion
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2022, 09:01:10 AM
These Asov people would not be on the, same page as the government if the Russians hadn't invaded.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 04, 2022, 09:04:42 AM
A few hundred nut jobs then. The article hinting that the far right will flock to Ukraines cause ! -I call bullshit, the far right across Europe polls badly but hey if thats the worry for some as oppossed to the actual shit that is happening right now, residential areas being flattened , thousands of innocent people being killed millions displaced.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Denn Forever on March 04, 2022, 11:48:28 AM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!

Sending t Ukraine to be used by Uraine air, force maybe. But if you mean outside airforces, Putin may take real offence.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: imtommygunn on March 04, 2022, 11:55:43 AM
They're already sending tanks etc so what's the difference.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Keyser soze on March 04, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!

Who's gonna fly them?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: grounded on March 04, 2022, 01:16:31 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/skbozphd/status/1499298691156705282

Indian TV's take on the crisis!
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Average Score on March 04, 2022, 01:19:51 PM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!

Who's gonna fly them?

They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 04, 2022, 01:26:16 PM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!

Who's gonna fly them?

They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.

I thought I read somewhere that they were looking for Russian made Aircraft as that is what their pilots are used to...
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2022, 05:59:25 PM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!
Who's gonna fly them?
They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.

Combat flying fighter isn't like driving a car, nor is it like flying a WW2 fighter.

With all the systems that go into a modern fighter, learning how they operate and doing so under heat of the moment is something that takes months to acquire.

Now, they had a request out for the Polish MiG-29s, which are an aircraft they do have experience with in their airforce. As to why they weren't given them, I've no idea.

If it were up to me (and its not obvs!), then the following shortlist would be very useful.

Crotale (France)
Rapier (UK)
Starstreak (UK)

At least one of those is being replaced (Rapier), so there should be quite few kicking around somewhere that could be sent over quickly.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2022, 07:02:16 PM
Zelenskyy keeps asking for planes, why isn't this being supplied!

Who's gonna fly them?

They has an airforce - stop trying to be a tool in the midst of this crisis.

I thought I read somewhere that they were looking for Russian made Aircraft as that is what their pilots are used to...

Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria have aging MIGs which would suit. No doubt the intention was that somebody would chip in for new fighters for these places.

The fighters have not materialised.
However, a rake of ground to air missiles have been sent, you might not snag a fighter with these but you would a helicopters. The Germans sent a rake of old SAMs from DDR times, the Ukrainians already have some of these and know the story.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: seafoid on March 04, 2022, 07:16:05 PM
Russia will conquer the whole country.
It doesn't seem interested in occupation.
How are Ukrainians likely to react ?
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Armamike on March 04, 2022, 07:23:35 PM
The worry now is that Putin was never interested in occupying Ukraine.  He simply wants to obliterate the country and wipe it from the face of the earth.  Like the jilted lover who's come back to take his revenge.  As scary a thought as it is, if Putin continues to target civilians it's hard to see how the West can stand by and watch this unfold.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: J70 on March 04, 2022, 07:51:53 PM
The worry now is that Putin was never interested in occupying Ukraine.  He simply wants to obliterate the country and wipe it from the face of the earth.  Like the jilted lover who's come back to take his revenge.  As scary a thought as it is, if Putin continues to target civilians it's hard to see how the West can stand by and watch this unfold.

Indeed.

Lindsey Graham was calling last night for the Russians to assassinate Putin. Got a lot of pushback from all sides of US politics.

Even Marjorie Taylor Greene! :o

Personally, I found Graham to be an odious character for his behaviour with Trump (his old pal John McCain must be turning in his grave at his carry on), but I have to say that, under the circumstances, it (calling for them to take out Putin) is not the worst thing a politician has come out with.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2022, 08:43:11 PM
Russia will conquer the whole country.
It doesn't seem interested in occupation.
How are Ukrainians likely to react ?
that’s the goal , control all the oil and gas and supply lines , nuclear plants too. Then Europe if they continue as they have will either have to deal with Putin or find some other way of creating energy
Ukraine also a big producer of food and raw materials for food production and who buys most of their food exports  ? China. Something bigger going on here with china and a few other countries they will create their own markets and tell the west to f- off
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: ONeill on March 04, 2022, 09:16:47 PM
Maybe Trump wasn't that bad a fella.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 04, 2022, 09:48:26 PM
Maybe Trump wasn't that bad a fella.
very mean tweeter though
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 04, 2022, 10:06:50 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-teams-harrowing-account-of-their-violent-ambush-in-ukraine-this-week-12557585
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Solo_run on March 04, 2022, 10:25:03 PM
China might reclaim Manchuria at some point
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2022, 10:25:58 PM
GaaboardMod5 - if there's no objections could you change the thread to Russian invasion of Ukraine? Or move all the recent ones ti a different thread?

Or forget I ever mentioned this seeing as Putin actually wants a regime change? :-[
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2022, 10:38:10 PM
Personally, I found Graham to be an odious character for his behaviour with Trump (his old pal John McCain must be turning in his grave at his carry on), but I have to say that, under the circumstances, it (calling for them to take out Putin) is not the worst thing a politician has come out with.

Yeah... I found myself thinking "If I'm broadly in agreement with Lindsey Graham and others are ridiculing him, have I went wrong somewhere?"
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Gmac on March 05, 2022, 02:32:35 AM
They're already sending tanks etc so what's the difference.
not sure flooding the place with weapons at this late stage is a great idea, look what happened in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2022, 07:27:19 AM
They're already sending tanks etc so what's the difference.
not sure flooding the place with weapons at this late stage is a great idea, look what happened in Afghanistan.

WTF?
I think you've got your analogy back to front there.

That's like saying "no point the Taliban flooding the place with weapons".
Title: Re: Re: ukraine regime change
Post by: Hound on March 05, 2022, 08:35:30 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/skbozphd/status/1499298691156705282

Indian TV's take on the crisis!
In the midst of this horrible situation, it’s nice to have a laugh!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 05, 2022, 01:23:26 PM
Surprise Surprise Ukrainian authorities say Russia is not observing a temporary ceasefire that was agreed in two cities - c***ts done the same in Syria, hard to believe anyone could be so evil.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 04:55:29 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 05, 2022, 08:25:33 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/e315f100-1de9-42c4-a5a3-8a1245664641
The US secretary of state warned pressure on Russia would intensify. “Not only is it unprecedented, not only is it producing very, very concrete results in Russia, but that pressure too will not only continue — it will grow until this war . . . is brought to an end,” Blinken said.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 05, 2022, 10:43:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.

I’d say at this stage Putin looks intent on leaving every city except Kyiv flattened to the ground with inhabitants beneath the rubble just like he did in Aleppo.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 05, 2022, 10:56:49 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.

I’d say at this stage Putin looks intent on leaving every city except Kyiv flattened to the ground with inhabitants beneath the rubble just like he did in Aleppo.

He might, but he might capture some of the smaller ones as the Ukrainians don't pitch their battle there e.g. Kherson, whereas he'll need all his men to capture Kyiv.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2022, 11:30:12 PM
Kharkiv got flattened to the ground previous in the 4 great battles for the city in ww2. Russian line of NATO expansion doesn't wash. The old nxt door neighbour was polish. Her Husband had served in the soviet army, Poland bck then hadn't a seperate army. It was all ussr. They were already worried about Russia invading again. All the small baltic states wanted NATO membership for protection from its bigger neighbour with history for invading. These smaller countries didn't add anything to the strong arm of NATO, USA, UK, France and to an extend Germany. Poland and the rest knew they needed western help to try kept the local bully boy of their patch.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Sportacus on March 06, 2022, 09:03:47 AM
Another week gone by.  The Russians have bit off more than they can chew. They’ll not break the spirit of the Ukrainians.  And every NATO country should feel assured for the future given that the Russian army can’t even knock out the army of a single state. They seem to have made a complete balls of it.  That 40 mile convoy is a sitting duck. I’m not saying it won’t get very ugly, but this is definitely not Putin Plan A.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 06, 2022, 11:25:12 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/2f1f0944-ceab-4042-93bd-63c2d863a75f

The US is working with Warsaw on a deal to provide Ukraine with Polish fighter jets as Kyiv ratchets up the pressure on the west to boost its air force capabilities so it can repel Russian attacks.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 07, 2022, 08:46:19 AM
There is some discussion in the media that the Russians have now deployed 95% of the forces deployed. They had planned on a quick campaign and they only have supplies fit that lot for about 10 days, with new supplies arriving less quickly than they are being used They haven't really cranked up production of military stuff and, when it is used up then it us not being replaced. You could see a stalemate developing where the Russians cannot push on.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2022, 09:00:02 AM
There is some discussion in the media that the Russians have now deployed 95% of the forces deployed. They had planned on a quick campaign and they only have supplies fit that lot for about 10 days, with new supplies arriving less quickly than they are being used They haven't really cranked up production of military stuff and, when it is used up then it us not being replaced. You could see a stalemate developing where the Russians cannot push on.

As much of a mess as it has been for Russia they might be happy enough to take all of the black sea coast from Ukraine
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 07, 2022, 09:24:28 AM
The Russians would be very happy to take the coast to Crimea anyway. But they want to overthrow the government also.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2022, 10:06:55 AM
Yeah it's wipeout time here tbh. There's no turning back until it's game over.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 07, 2022, 11:23:00 AM
Ukraine need help in terms of military assistance but the implications are scary. At best a proxy war right in the centre of Europe and worst WW3. Watched Domnic Rabb on last night giving the tories a slap on the back for reducing the time for Russian dirty money to be moved to 6 months. So far out of 1.5 million refugees Britain has granted visas for 50 people. The British government really have let Ukraine down.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Dire Ear on March 07, 2022, 12:53:38 PM
Ukraine need help in terms of military assistance but the implications are scary. At best a proxy war right in the centre of Europe and worst WW3. Watched Domnic Rabb on last night giving the tories a slap on the back for reducing the time for Russian dirty money to be moved to 6 months. So far out of 1.5 million refugees Britain has granted visas for 50 people. The British government really have let Ukraine down.
Tories are the complete money lovin scumbags
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Armamike on March 07, 2022, 01:34:41 PM
Admitting 50 refugees to date.  Pathetic.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2022, 01:45:14 PM
Putin is basically trolling everyone. He is opening corridors so ukrainians can escape to russia or belarus. He is taking the piss out of everyone.

Also Russia has announced an approved list of those who have been seen to help Ukraine. The whole of the EU, aka Ireland, and the Uk are on the list. A significant proportion of the "developed" world is on it too.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: mouview on March 07, 2022, 01:55:05 PM
FSB (formerly KGB) 'sources'  say war has to be won by June or Russia will collapse. Also, FSB not even kept in the loop of all developments but expect to be blamed if and when analysis of the situation goes wrong.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 07, 2022, 01:59:08 PM
FSB (formerly KGB) 'sources'  say war has to be won by June or Russia will collapse. Also, FSB not even kept in the loop of all developments but expect to be blamed if and when analysis of the situation goes wrong.

not sure what winning the war looks like, let alone in June.

There'll guerrilla attacks for years to come irrespective of what Russia has in plan for Ukraine. They'll still need the army in situ to maintain a proxy government unless they can get a few Ukrainian Generals to stage a coup, not likely.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2022, 02:03:25 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?

The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).

Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that  :(
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 07, 2022, 02:50:46 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?

The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).

Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that  :(

Yeah, but takeover will be much more than raising the Russian flag over the local cityhall and then trotting off back to Russia. It will mean the army being kept in place there at whatever $2B a day and the sanctions won't be lifted either.

IMO he'll claim victory, then negotiate with the Ukrainians to hold some regions to the East and a pathway to Crimea and more access to the Black sea.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 07, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.

Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia.  Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: HiMucker on March 07, 2022, 03:28:16 PM
Some great stuff on twitter from logistics anoraks and the like. Like most people Id have thought the Russian army was going to steam roll them. The more I read the more I think a Russian military collapse is imminent. They have made an absolute balls out of the whole thing.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 07, 2022, 03:52:47 PM
Some great stuff on twitter from logistics anoraks and the like. Like most people Id have thought the Russian army was going to steam roll them. The more I read the more I think a Russian military collapse is imminent. They have made an absolute balls out of the whole thing.

Wish you were right Mucker and ive read a bit meself. Unfortunately i can see them rumbling on for a while yet (based on nothing)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 07, 2022, 03:59:08 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.

Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia.  Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.

If only it was unimaginable... but ask a Palestinain, an Iraqi, a Syrian, an Afgani etc. it is very real for way too many people for way too long. Some of whom, do/did not have the option to flee anywhere..
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2022, 04:06:30 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.

Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia.  Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.

If only it was unimaginable... but ask a Palestinain, an Iraqi, a Syrian, an Afgani etc. it is very real for way too many people for way too long.

You've left out the African countries also, and not one fcuk given
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on March 07, 2022, 04:23:27 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/67c41711-027e-4bc3-b94a-cf220d1e8243

Ukraine called off an attempt to evacuate civilians from the besieged city of Mariupol after accusing Russia of violating a ceasefire and attacking the escape route for hundreds of thousands of beleaguered civilians. The struggle to enforce the ceasefire further worsened conditions in the city, which has borne the brunt of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine. Strategically located on the Sea of Azov, it is completely encircled by Russian forces and has endured near-constant shelling that has reduced many residential areas to ruins.

Evil bastards at it again, it's shocking some major global brands still standing by Russia.  Those poor people, what they must be going through is unimaginable.

If only it was unimaginable... but ask a Palestinain, an Iraqi, a Syrian, an Afgani etc. it is very real for way too many people for way too long.

You've left out the African countries also, and not one fcuk given

sadly, there are too many to mention so I added etc. I didn't mention Yemen either
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Mikhailov on March 07, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?

The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).

Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that  :(

Yeah, but takeover will be much more than raising the Russian flag over the local cityhall and then trotting off back to Russia. It will mean the army being kept in place there at whatever $2B a day and the sanctions won't be lifted either.

IMO he'll claim victory, then negotiate with the Ukrainians to hold some regions to the East and a pathway to Crimea and more access to the Black sea.

Getting a pathway to Crimea is his worst possible outcome - he wants much more - but is struggling to get it. I don’t think he will even get a clear pathway to Crimea as Mariupol are putting up a great battle to stay within Ukraine in that region. If putin gets Odessa as well then he may back off after that but highly unlikely.
Hard to imagine that is it highly likely that they are going to run out of funds to continue their war - that is the very last thing Russia would have expected
Serves them right - Ukraine have put up a seriously strong resistance that most people didn’t think was even possible so fair f**ks to them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2022, 06:12:32 PM
Surely the takeover of the main cities (in particular Kiev) would be seen as winning?

The reckoning is it's costing Russia 2 billion USD a day and with the seizing of so many assets etc they will run out of money in that kind of timeframe. (I actually read sooner).

Unfortunately I expect the Russians to have broken them before that  :(
He wasn't expecting 20 allies of Ukraine to provide weapons either

Yeah, but takeover will be much more than raising the Russian flag over the local cityhall and then trotting off back to Russia. It will mean the army being kept in place there at whatever $2B a day and the sanctions won't be lifted either.

IMO he'll claim victory, then negotiate with the Ukrainians to hold some regions to the East and a pathway to Crimea and more access to the Black sea.

Getting a pathway to Crimea is his worst possible outcome - he wants much more - but is struggling to get it. I don’t think he will even get a clear pathway to Crimea as Mariupol are putting up a great battle to stay within Ukraine in that region. If putin gets Odessa as well then he may back off after that but highly unlikely.
Hard to imagine that is it highly likely that they are going to run out of funds to continue their war - that is the very last thing Russia would have expected
Serves them right - Ukraine have put up a seriously strong resistance that most people didn’t think was even possible so fair f**ks to them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 07, 2022, 07:13:29 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy

Ah, I dunno if they'll make anything like the impact the Ukranians hope for - I think their impact will be vastly underwhelming compared to their resources consumed. They might think it a morale winner - but when they are mostly smoking holes in the ground within a couple of days - then it may have the opposite effect.

I'd think it more useful if Poland's order for >20 TB2 drones was directed Ukraine's direction instead. Turkey themselves have over 100 and are a NATO member - why are they not being tapped up for sending a rake more over.

Austrian company Schiebel make the Camcopter - perfect for ambushing vehicles in the Ukrainian terrain. Can NATO not gather together a few dozen of these? 'Course they can. The Belgians have them, the French have them, the Italians have them and so do the Yanks.

Even old Predators from the US would do a fine job.


Best of it is, how are the Russians going to know if a Predator is being piloted by a Ukrainian 10 miles away, or a trained operator sitting 400 miles away in Poland taking cues from on ground Ukrainian forces? They (Russians) sure as hell wouldn't have enough proof to push any further.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on March 07, 2022, 08:06:04 PM
A man on a holy mission

A truck carrying ecclesiastical supplies was driven through the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin this afternoon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/



Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 07, 2022, 08:12:57 PM
A man on a holy mission

A truck carrying ecclesiastical supplies was driven through the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin this afternoon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/





A Jihad on the Russians.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 07, 2022, 09:18:38 PM
A man on a holy mission

A truck carrying ecclesiastical supplies was driven through the gates of the Russian embassy in Dublin this afternoon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0307/1284925-embassy/





Just read that story and this sentence stands out from the embassy:

"The incident is cause of extreme concern. We believe that no people of sound mind could support such senseless and barbaric actions," it added.

Mind boggling


Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on March 07, 2022, 10:33:17 PM
That embassy statement was cowered with paranoia and mopery, even accused the Gardai of "standing idly by"  ;D
They probably thought that was an original insult, when in fact its usage has already entered into the annals and is frozen in time.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on March 07, 2022, 11:24:26 PM
Takes a Laythrum man to put the wind up them Russians :D
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 08, 2022, 08:06:23 AM
Takes a Laythrum man to put the wind up them Russians :D

Is that Altar wine on the side of that lorry?   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: WT4E on March 08, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
Has anyone read the Putin has terminal Cancer theory?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2022, 09:32:18 AM
Has anyone read the Putin has terminal Cancer theory?

I haven’t read it but it makes sense. How many political leaders in history are ingrained in the world’s memory who didn’t warmonger? Even though he’s been running one of the world’s superpowers for 20 years, he’d have left this earth without leaving a long lasting footprint… until last week’s actions.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 08, 2022, 09:48:21 AM
Has anyone read the Putin has terminal Cancer theory?

I haven’t read it but it makes sense. How many political leaders in history are ingrained in the world’s memory who didn’t warmonger? Even though he’s been running one of the world’s superpowers for 20 years, he’d have left this earth without leaving a long lasting footprint… until last week’s actions.

Not sure I follow, I like probably most here have known folk with terminal cancer, or another life ending illness, it seems to change people to be more reflective in my opinion.  The other theory that he's puffed up because of steroid addiction makes more sense, anyone who has been interviewed of late and have met him say he's a totally different person to that a few years back.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Itchy on March 08, 2022, 09:58:44 AM
Takes a Laythrum man to put the wind up them Russians :D

If you've ever driven through Ballinamore of a Sunday after mass you'd know that you have just witnessed normal Leitrim driving. The protest story was just way to spare his blushes
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 10:34:57 AM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy

Are you talking MIGs as in the Soviet era planes that Poland had when they were in the Warsaw pact, sometime in the middle of the last century?

I don't think Poland has many of them still flying given that they are now in NATO and have been for 20+ years. 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 12:11:47 PM
According to the news Poland have a load of them. They want them replaced with new Jets from the US and then give Ukraine the Migs so that the Ukranian pilots are good to go as they know the planes and dont need further training
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on March 08, 2022, 12:32:34 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: An Watcher on March 08, 2022, 12:36:54 PM
Just googled trebuchets,  very good
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: charlieTully on March 08, 2022, 12:57:32 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy

Ah, I dunno if they'll make anything like the impact the Ukranians hope for - I think their impact will be vastly underwhelming compared to their resources consumed. They might think it a morale winner - but when they are mostly smoking holes in the ground within a couple of days - then it may have the opposite effect.

I'd think it more useful if Poland's order for >20 TB2 drones was directed Ukraine's direction instead. Turkey themselves have over 100 and are a NATO member - why are they not being tapped up for sending a rake more over.

Austrian company Schiebel make the Camcopter - perfect for ambushing vehicles in the Ukrainian terrain. Can NATO not gather together a few dozen of these? 'Course they can. The Belgians have them, the French have them, the Italians have them and so do the Yanks.

Even old Predators from the US would do a fine job.


Best of it is, how are the Russians going to know if a Predator is being piloted by a Ukrainian 10 miles away, or a trained operator sitting 400 miles away in Poland taking cues from on ground Ukrainian forces? They (Russians) sure as hell wouldn't have enough proof to push any further.


A covid expert and a war expert. Some boy for one boy.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 01:00:02 PM
If they can get those Polish MIGs then they may finally sort out that massive sitting duck convoy

Are you talking MIGs as in the Soviet era planes that Poland had when they were in the Warsaw pact, sometime in the middle of the last century?

I don't think Poland has many of them still flying given that they are now in NATO and have been for 20+ years.

Poland have some, as do Slovakia and Bulgaria. The point is that they will have probably be replaced in the new few years and you might as well scrap them in dogfight against the Russians.

But the earlier comments about drones are also relevant.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2022, 01:01:00 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .

You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 08, 2022, 01:04:20 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .

You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt

I have heard a few military experts on the news saying the same.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 08, 2022, 01:17:29 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .

You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt

I have heard a few military experts on the news saying the same.

Culvert Bomb
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2022, 07:15:40 PM
According to the news Poland have a load of them. They want them replaced with new Jets from the US and then give Ukraine the Migs so that the Ukranian pilots are good to go as they know the planes and dont need further training

Craic was, Poland were gonna get F-35s in 2024
Craic now is, the Yanks might give them the next brand spanking new ones off the production line if they hand over their Fulcrums to the Ukrainians.

But there would need to be NATO sensitive equipment removed first.
and its not clear how much capability they have for precision air to ground.
or even what air to air munitions they run on.

Not straightforward.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:36:27 PM
Should send them some trebuchets when they're at it .

You joke but literally anything would obliterate that massive convoy which is just asking for it so puzzled why it hasnt

I have heard a few military experts on the news saying the same.

Culvert Bomb

A lot of fertiliser is produced in Ukraine.
But then, perhaps they have placed a culvert bomb further down the road and when the convoy gets there they will blow up the first couple of yokes and emerge with anti tank missiles to get the rest.

have the West no truck mounted missiles that could be donated to fire at static convoys and the like?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2022, 07:51:00 PM
According to the news Poland have a load of them. They want them replaced with new Jets from the US and then give Ukraine the Migs so that the Ukranian pilots are good to go as they know the planes and dont need further training

Craic was, Poland were gonna get F-35s in 2024
Craic now is, the Yanks might give them the next brand spanking new ones off the production line if they hand over their Fulcrums to the Ukrainians.

But there would need to be NATO sensitive equipment removed first.
and its not clear how much capability they have for precision air to ground.
or even what air to air munitions they run on.

Not straightforward.

and....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60657155

Poland to give the MiGs to the Yanks, who will then give them to the Ukrainians.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on March 08, 2022, 08:39:07 PM
Brit government deny accusations that it has been making it difficult for Ukrainians to apply for visas. Those Ukrainians who were in France were told to apply at Calais, when they got to Calais there was no reception centre, instead they received the news that they had to apply at the British embassy Paris and take advantage of a walk-in appointment period on Thursday afternoons between 2 pm - 3pm.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60655788
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2022, 08:43:14 PM
300!!!!
Apparently they are "concerned" because we will be taking in lots of the poor devils.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2022, 08:43:33 PM
Brit government deny accusations that it has been making it difficult for Ukrainians to apply for visas. Those Ukrainians who were in France were told to apply at Calais, when they got to Calais there was no reception centre, instead they received the news that they had to apply at the British embassy Paris and take advantage of a walk-in appointment period on Thursday afternoons between 2 pm - 3pm.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60655788

Priti Stupid is on the case.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 08, 2022, 09:21:22 PM
Nothing but flat out lies again and again and again from that party. Disgusting and without an ounce of humanity between them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: theskull1 on March 08, 2022, 09:33:33 PM
Russian/Ukrainian now UK (Boris detesting) comedian/podcaster Konstantin Kisin has said that refugees would prefer to be close to their homeland and recommended the UK did all they could to support them in those regions... a different perspective worth keeping in mind
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 09, 2022, 07:31:23 AM
Doesn’t excuse them skull.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: general_lee on March 09, 2022, 07:33:10 AM
The NATO social media team had a bit of a blooper

https://twitter.com/markamesexiled/status/1501323187832823814?s=21
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Armagh18 on March 09, 2022, 08:39:31 AM
In fairness why would any Ukrainian want to come to the UK? Barring they have family there surely they’d be better staying in France.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2022, 08:40:29 AM
In fairness why would any Ukrainian want to come to the UK? Barring they have family there surely they’d be better staying in France.

Their English is better than their French?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 09, 2022, 11:39:26 AM
Sting vows to never perform for Russian billionaires again after Ukraine invasion.  Lucky them!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2022, 01:25:01 PM
In fairness why would any Ukrainian want to come to the UK? Barring they have family there surely they’d be better staying in France.

I often ask the same as to why anyone would want to live in Armagh
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 09, 2022, 01:28:32 PM
I am sure you are very knowledgeable of the place and it's residents.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on March 09, 2022, 01:39:42 PM
is the embassy guy not some sort of far  right winger thats angry at the russians causing a refugee crises
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2022, 02:04:03 PM
is the embassy guy not some sort of far  right winger thats angry at the russians causing a refugee crises

I am not sure what his story is, he was involved (along with a lot of FF and FG types) in Ballinamore to protest against a direct provision centre. The local SF TD Martin Kenny has his car burnt out by those loons as it sat in front of his house at night with his family inside. How central this fella was in that protest I dont know.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: general_lee on March 09, 2022, 02:27:56 PM
Cynical publicity stunt
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: theskull1 on March 09, 2022, 02:31:34 PM
A level headed discussion on the Ukraine crisis worth listening to here

War in Ukraine: Causes and Effects | Robert Wright & Katrina vanden Heuvel | The Wright Show

https://youtu.be/LzEdSemhD8o (https://youtu.be/LzEdSemhD8o)

01:01 Understanding the thought process that led Putin to invade Ukraine
13:24 Could diplomacy have prevented the invasion? 
20:30 Imagining possible endings of the war – and what comes after
27:39 Reviewing the events that drove the West and Putin’s Russia apart
36:48 How Moscow viewed the 2014 Maidan Revolution in Ukraine
49:13 Could a palace coup in Moscow reset US-Russia relations?
58:13 Bob and Katrina worry that the planet can’t afford a second cold war

Robert Wright (Bloggingheads.tv, The Evolution of God, Nonzero, Why Buddhism Is True) and Katrina vanden Heuvel (The Nation). Recorded March 08, 2022.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/81630924-deb4-4ee8-abed-006a90972bb0


Almost 2.2mn people have fled the fighting in Ukraine, with neighbouring Poland taking the lion’s share of refugees.
The UN refugee agency’s latest figures showed that, of the 2.16mn total, 1.3mn Ukrainians have headed towards Poland while Hungary has received 203,000 people. Slovakia counted 153,000 across its border, with Romania taking in 35,000 and Moldova 83,000.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2022, 07:56:12 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/717c4244-0dda-4564-8380-6cb1352afd68

Rating agency Fitch downgraded Russia by six notches on Tuesday, saying both domestic measures and foreign sanctions made a bond default “imminent”.

The UK Ministry of Defence said on Wednesday that the Russian military had confirmed the use of a thermobaric weapon in Ukraine. The so-called TOS-1A system creates “incendiary and blast effects” that have a “devastating impact”, the MoD added

Western officials said fighting north-west of Kyiv was continuing, but Russian forces had so far failed to make any significant breakthroughs as they continue to besiege the cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 09, 2022, 11:13:36 PM
The problem was nobody thought Russia would invade outside of the Americans. If they had loaded the country with extra jetx, anti aircraft missiles, gave the Ukrainians enough to end themselves, Russia I say would not have invaded. Ukraine was not geared up for an invasion, and had not moved its forces into positions for counterattack. The large built up in Belarus should been the tail tell sign and been in place to counter accordingly.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2022, 11:48:23 PM
The problem was nobody thought Russia would invade outside of the Americans. If they had loaded the country with extra jetx, anti aircraft missiles, gave the Ukrainians enough to end themselves, Russia I say would not have invaded. Ukraine was not geared up for an invasion, and had not moved its forces into positions for counterattack. The large built up in Belarus should been the tail tell sign and been in place to counter accordingly.

Ukrainian forces have not done so bad. They were hardly caught unawares.
As for the Americans, people in the Kremlin, perhaps those who think Putin a dangerous bollix, are providing information. The Ukrainians are getting some information too.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2022, 06:23:40 AM
The Ukrainians have a very good arms supply from around 20 countries. The Russian Plan A failed so they are falling back on long distance shelling which is inaccurate and more likely to blow up hospitals.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2022, 06:29:01 AM
Von der Leyen told Zelenskyy off the cuff that Ukraine could be considered for EU membership.
She is a bit of a loose cannon.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 10, 2022, 11:03:07 AM
Never fear, Donald has the solution.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 10, 2022, 12:06:10 PM
Paper tiger cause that p***k was looking to cut off money to NATO.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 10, 2022, 12:14:50 PM
Paper tiger cause that p***k was looking to cut off money to NATO.
yep.
he also withheld huge military aid to Ukraine over Biden's son and trying to get a favour off the ukrainian president
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Never fear, Donald has the solution.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese

What was it he called himself?

A "stable genius" if I remember correctly.

My seven year old daughter is about as mature in her thinking and analysis as Trump is.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2022, 12:31:42 PM
Paper tiger cause that p***k was looking to cut off money to NATO.
yep.
he also withheld huge military aid to Ukraine over Biden's son and trying to get a favour off the ukrainian president

Just to be clear

He DELAYED the aid…..he ended up sending it!

More importantly……(which is conveniently ignored by those on the left) is that Obama flat out refused to supply the Ukrainians those same weapons when he was in charge

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6371378

“the Obama administration would only commit to non-lethal support, which included equipment such as body armour, night goggles and helmets“

Plenty of blame to go around.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: dec on March 10, 2022, 02:32:34 PM
Never fear, Donald has the solution.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/07/donald-trump-russia-ukraine-jets-chinese

What was it he called himself?

A "stable genius" if I remember correctly.

My seven year old daughter is about as mature in her thinking and analysis as Trump is.

You don't remember correctly, it was in fact a "very stable genius"
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2022, 02:45:14 PM
There's far wiser in Stables!!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 02:49:41 PM
The US just approved 13.6billion for Ukraine
Hunter will be on the way over to make sure it goes to the most needy with 10% for the big guy of course.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 04:44:03 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:18:36 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 10, 2022, 05:19:33 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

US preventing Poland from giving their MiG's to Ukraine, so yes you're right.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2022, 05:39:37 PM
Hungary has been drinking the oul Kool aid recently. Orban's Putin stance is a poor look these days.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2022, 05:42:16 PM
Von der Leyen told Zelenskyy off the cuff that Ukraine could be considered for EU membership.
She is a bit of a loose cannon.

She might be, although perhaps Ukraine needs more cannons.
Nevertheless, the EU is open to membership of any European country if they meet the requirements.
That said, I do not think that Ukraine should join the EU, a looser EFTA type arrangement would give them more flexibility.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:47:27 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

US preventing Poland from giving their MiG's to Ukraine, so yes you're right.
poland want to give them to the US and then they give them to Ukraine and the US want  them to give them directly to Ukraine neither country wants to be blamed for starting ww3 , in ww2 the US government made Britain pull bombers planes by horse over the Canadian border so they could say they didn’t give them directly to the British .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2022, 05:55:07 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .

Ok?

I still don't know what you're on about.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .

Ok?

I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don’t like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu  parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it’s tough no funds for you .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2022, 06:08:12 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .

Ok?

I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don’t like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu  parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it’s tough no funds for you .

What policies?

Edit: Never mind.

Found some links:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60400112 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60400112)

https://apnews.com/article/europe-poland-hungary-european-union-46b53e8a6e8fcae054c07c252c274117 (https://apnews.com/article/europe-poland-hungary-european-union-46b53e8a6e8fcae054c07c252c274117)

Ok, given that you're apparently upset enough over this to bring it into this thread, why were the EU wrong to penalize those countries? Do you support the laws and policies they were implementing?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: HiMucker on March 10, 2022, 06:27:44 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .

Ok?

I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don’t like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu  parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it’s tough no funds for you .
You haven't a clue what your talking about. Both countries leaders were trying to push through major reforms of their judiciary that would near render them powerless from politcal intervention. Its the the first step to dictatorship. Ill give you a clue, there is a country that just invaded another whos leader made similar reforms at the outset of his leadership.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2022, 06:37:08 PM
That "gmac" has sunk lower into idiocy than even the thickest yank.
What a sad state for an Irish person to end up in.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2022, 06:44:16 PM
Perhaps tanks are almost useless if you have good anti-tank weapons? Shoot the first one and the rest jam up.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 07:23:39 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .

Ok?

I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don’t like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu  parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it’s tough no funds for you .
You haven't a clue what your talking about. Both countries leaders were trying to push through major reforms of their judiciary that would near render them powerless from politcal intervention. Its the the first step to dictatorship. Ill give you a clue, there is a country that just invaded another whos leader made similar reforms at the outset of his leadership.
you don’t cut off countries from funds they need during a refugee crisis , but like they say never let a crisis go to waste .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2022, 07:34:55 PM
Who's they?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 10, 2022, 07:42:39 PM
Are the EU sanctioning Poland and Hungary in the middle of a refugee crisis because they won’t go along with their crazy liberal policies , diverting their governments time and resources away from the influx of refugees coming to their countries.
One of the reasons Putin speaks about his problems with Ukraine is that if they join nato they no longer are a sovereign country and have little control over their own military decisions, looks like the same goes for the EU, all aboard the crazy train

You do realize most people here don't listen to or hear the same hysterical incoherent right wing nonsense as you?

What are you on about?
it’s not on cnn or msnbc so don’t worry about it , not on fox either so don’t come back with that played out line .

Ok?

I still don't know what you're on about.
the eu don’t like some policies both countries have implemented so the eu  parliament voted to hold back funds from both countries , so if conservative governments are not on board with liberal policies it’s tough no funds for you .
You haven't a clue what your talking about. Both countries leaders were trying to push through major reforms of their judiciary that would near render them powerless from politcal intervention. Its the the first step to dictatorship. Ill give you a clue, there is a country that just invaded another whos leader made similar reforms at the outset of his leadership.
you don’t cut off countries from funds they need during a refugee crisis , but like they say never let a crisis go to waste .

This issue long precedes the war and refugee crisis. Even the court ruling confirming they could withhold the funds preceded the invasion by a week. One's got nothing to do with the other.

And I'm pretty sure the EU will not be found wanting when it comes to providing money to deal with the humanitarian issues.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 10, 2022, 07:54:32 PM
That "gmac" has sunk lower into idiocy than even the thickest yank.
What a sad state for an Irish person to end up in.
we have different political opinions, I don’t need to abuse people over them and call posters stupid and thick , you on the other hand proved how dumb you are by not understanding simple percentages on another thread .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 10, 2022, 09:14:53 PM
S they said in Kelly Heroes, a tank (Tiger for that instance, if u know anything about tanks) is geared up for direct conflict on open country. Totally not suited for urban warfare and the advancement on rocket launchers has greatly reduced the effect of Tank warfare unlike WW2.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: whitey on March 10, 2022, 10:26:50 PM
Look….Trump is and was an absolute clown, but Obama

(1) Completely underestimated Putin (actually laughed at Romney)

(2) Did nothing of consequence when he invaded Crime

(3) Would not give the Ukrainians the arms they were asking for


Was Trump right to hold the Germans to account for not contributing their fair share-absolutely 100%

Was he wrong to attempt to extort Zelensly to investigate the Biden’s-Absoluetly 100 %

But some of the clowns on here trying to put all the blame on Trump should take a serious look at the facts
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:41:56 PM
Money means more to the entitled, most folk are c***ts me me me me.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 10:42:18 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 10, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: ONeill on March 10, 2022, 10:47:25 PM
I think he might have thrown a bit of reality on the history how we got here.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2022, 10:47:38 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

We all feared Trump.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 10:59:48 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.

Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tyrone08 on March 10, 2022, 11:01:59 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

I am sure Putin is very worried about trump... A man who has continually praised Putin and has lots of business ties to Russia.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Kidder81 on March 10, 2022, 11:04:49 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.

Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.

Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn’t jump to conclusions and wanted samples of  the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis  ???
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 11:15:17 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

I am sure Putin is very worried about trump... A man who has continually praised Putin and has lots of business ties to Russia.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/battle-syria-us-russian-mercenaries-commandos-islamic-state-a8370781.html
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 10, 2022, 11:19:03 PM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.

Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.

corbyn a shambles
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 01:40:10 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tyrone08 on March 11, 2022, 07:05:18 AM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.

Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.

Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn’t jump to conclusions and wanted samples of  the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis  ???

Corbyn wanted actual hard evidence against Russia in order to fully prove they did it. Beside what was the UK response to the poisoning... They expelled a few diplomats,  hardly a strong punishment.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-2001-warning-about-valdimir-putin-resurfaces-314188/amp/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 11, 2022, 07:10:51 AM
I think he might have thrown a bit of reality on the history how we got here.

Because at this moment in time a history lesson is what is needed.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2022, 09:39:42 AM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.

Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.

Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn’t jump to conclusions and wanted samples of  the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis  ???

Corbyn wanted actual hard evidence against Russia in order to fully prove they did it. Beside what was the UK response to the poisoning... They expelled a few diplomats,  hardly a strong punishment.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-2001-warning-about-valdimir-putin-resurfaces-314188/amp/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs

The arguments against Corbyn were that he was weak on national security, weak on the economy and antisemitic.

The real reason they hated him.was because he wanted to change the system
.Half of Brits earn less than 30k
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2022, 09:44:33 AM
He was shafted. The establishment didn't want him.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2022, 11:04:41 AM
Agreed. The rich didn't want change. The Tories have destroyed the economy and are weak on national security.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2022, 11:06:50 AM
Their corruption seems to know no bounds. I don't know how they are stopped.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 11, 2022, 11:28:35 AM
Trump a dick. But Putin feared him more than Biden or Obama. Not nice to hear but the democrats are soft as shite in Putins eyes

Hate the tories but imagine Corbyn in charge he would be sending aid to Moscow.

Funny that corbyn had been warning about Russia for years. No wonder tories are in power when people believe the crap they are told on tv.

Eh ? After the Salisbury poisoning he reckoned we shouldn’t jump to conclusions and wanted samples of  the poison sent to the Kremlin for analysis  ???
Corbyn did the opposite in fact.
he wanted a proper investigation

sure the Tories didn't even bother investigating russian interference in the brexit vote
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2022, 11:33:25 AM
There is a russia report. It hasn't been scrutinised particularly much for some reason though...
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 11, 2022, 11:53:33 AM
There is a russia report. It hasn't been scrutinised particularly much for some reason though...

Wasn't sure but it was released in 2020 and sure Boris throws out this line when asked to comment on it;;

UK elections and EU Referendum
“[Paragraph 47] …Whilst the issues at stake in the EU referendum campaign are less
clear-cut, it is nonetheless the Committee’s view that the UK intelligence and security
community should produce an analogous assessment of potential Russian interference in
the EU referendum and that an unclassified summary of it be published.”

We have seen no evidence of successful interference in the EU Referendum.


I don't they looked overly hard for evidence of wrongdoing in the EU referendum as it was there in plain sight with the dark money and Aaron Banks connections even causing concern for fellow UKIPers..



Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 11:54:41 AM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-casualtie-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ

Trump knew about this up front, Biden shite the tights.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on March 11, 2022, 12:29:56 PM
https://gript.ie/irish-senators-claim-that-women-are-wars-main-victims-is-absurd/

More pure & utter WAP shit from the far left & left overs, fair play to the gript for highlighting it.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2022, 01:18:04 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

The world would be much better place if reasonable people in Russia and the USA would rid themselves of Putin and Trump.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:24:35 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts

What does this mean?

Which oil fields has Biden shut down?

Are US oil companies struggling for supply?

US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 11, 2022, 02:36:10 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts

What does this mean?

Which oil fields has Biden shut down?

Are US oil companies struggling for supply?

US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
is this Jen psaki ?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2022, 02:43:59 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts

What does this mean?

Which oil fields has Biden shut down?

Are US oil companies struggling for supply?

US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)
is this Jen psaki ?

Do YOU have any worthwhile to add?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 03:36:40 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts

What does this mean?

Which oil fields has Biden shut down?

Are US oil companies struggling for supply?

US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/8/biden-cancels-oil-while-americans-suffer-and-the-w/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0BbUx2r3ntaLuUhfTY22k2r1H738zAMPHl0igKCcV0pE6j1y7tN6QBoCXxwQAvD_BwE
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 11, 2022, 04:11:34 PM
Does anyone else think the backlash against ordinary Russians is way over the top lots of examples  kicking ballet dancers out of shows , classical musicians getting removed , Russian restaurants getting vandalized, Russian students getting removed in certain countries .
Bitching about a bully but acting like them on a smaller scale at the same time .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 11, 2022, 04:29:43 PM
Not as harsh as the unprovoked backlash against ordinary Ukrainians.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on March 11, 2022, 04:34:17 PM
Unfortunately for Ukraine right now, it is much more desirable that Putin is replaced by disgruntled Russians rather than being forced out of office, an after effect from a dirty war v NATO. The economic sanctions are the best method where the freezing of Russian state assets and other sanctions enacted by US and EU, a widespread populist boycott of Russia (economic, cultural and sporting), supported by multinational companies refusing to do business.
 All these sanctions and boycotts add to the urgency for the Russian people to act and replace the current government with one that is more conducive to status quo world relations.
I think the USA had done their intelligence homework and were well ahead of the EU in recognizing the inevitability of war. All Biden had to do was listen to the intelligence and act according to that advice, everything has been handed to him on a plate. I doubt Trump would have listened and acted in accordance with the intelligence agencies.
With Trump sidelined, Democrats and Republicans can find enough common ground for agreed action.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2022, 04:46:36 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts

What does this mean?

Which oil fields has Biden shut down?

Are US oil companies struggling for supply?

US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/8/biden-cancels-oil-while-americans-suffer-and-the-w/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0BbUx2r3ntaLuUhfTY22k2r1H738zAMPHl0igKCcV0pE6j1y7tN6QBoCXxwQAvD_BwE

Rowan Scarborough. Never heard of him before, but a quick look at his bio shows he had to issue an apology for alleging that facial recognition tech had “identified” Antifa agitators among the Jan 6 mob. And he also wrote this: “Rumsfeld's War: The Untold Story of America's Anti-Terrorist Commander”. Published by Regeneron of course. :D

Anyway… to the point…

1.   ANWR has been a political lightning rod for nearly 50 years. The GOP have been trying to open it all through all that time. I can remember it being a Fox News nightly staple 15-20 years ago as they showed ludicrous photos of a couple of caribou walking around under a pipeline to show that oil field development would have “zero” impact on an internationally important ecological preserve.
Do you know when Trump sold those leases you? Jan 6 2021 (I shit you not :D). There wasn’t even the beginning of planning for production at that point.
Do you know how many of the 22 leases were sold? 11. Do you know how many were bought by oil companies? ZERO. And those leases are now, correctly, suspended while the environmental impact review and legal process the Trump admin “undertook” is investigated.

2.   Keystone XL – another political lightning rod and another one that hasn’t seen a drop of actual existing production shut down. One 1200 mile pipeline that has been in the news for the last decade as a red line for both sides (there are 3 millions miles of oil and gas pipelines in the US). And it was proposed and partially constructed to transport extremely dirty Alberta (i.e. Canadian) tar sand crude, which the oil companies were already moving away from despite provincial funding there because it is so expensive to move and refine.

3.   On the suspension of new leasing on US public lands: what percentage of existing leases are currently under production? How much US public land is currently available for exploitation? Is lack of supply a problem? Biden put 80 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico up for lease sales last year. Only 1.7 million were bought.  His administration issue 3500 oil and gas permits in 2021, 900 more than Trump did in 2017.

So is the Biden administration actually hampering US oil and gas production, or are conservatives just crying because he put the kibosh on two politically-explosive projects and ceased issuing new leases on public lands?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2022, 04:47:11 PM
It is just a way to try and get Putin out from within (or bumped off or whatever - I imagine that would also be a successful outcome for them).

It's a funny one because a concern I would have had would have been it would push Russians who were not interested in conflict etc into being interested (a form of radicalisation I guess) but then this is being completely offset by how Russians are being treated within their own country during this war so in light of that I do think a lot blame Putin. There's buck all they can do about it mind you but the hope would be they eventually will or someone within eventually will.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2022, 04:54:29 PM
Does anyone else think the backlash against ordinary Russians is way over the top lots of examples  kicking ballet dancers out of shows , classical musicians getting removed , Russian restaurants getting vandalized, Russian students getting removed in certain countries .
Bitching about a bully but acting like them on a smaller scale at the same time .

The Russian government chose this. Other than going to actual war with them, what alternative is there?

I'm sure if there were some way of getting Putin and his minions to stop, withdraw and pay Ukraine for the murder and destruction WITHOUT hurting the Russian people themselves, then the rest of the world would go down that path.

They should just thank their lucky stars they're not being murdered or driven out of their homes and country like the Ukrainians are, or like many other civilian populatiosn whose governments have been engaged in war have been in the past.

That said, if you have ideas about how this SHOULD be conducted...

However, it IS an interesting question.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 07:40:04 PM
Putin feared Trump, seriously what u smoking. Putin had Trump by the balls and I think when Trump gone, it come out in the long run. Man done more ass kissing to Purin than anybody. Very unamerican of him. Mccarthy would loved him bck in the 50's.

Trump and some of his more craven worshippers in Congress and the American right wing media, including Fox News, are what the Soviets coined the term "useful idiots" for.

Thankfully, on this issue at least, most of the more serious GOP congress people seem to have broken with Trump and are taking a hard line against Putin.

If only they'd toss him aside once and for all, for everyone's sake.

Neither side of the house is taking a strong enough stance on Putin.
Biden only needs to re-open the US oil fields to avoid a fuel crisis in Europe and to boot the Russians where it hurts

What does this mean?

Which oil fields has Biden shut down?

Are US oil companies struggling for supply?

US oil production has been increasing overall in the past decade with the exception of a slight dip in 2016 and again, with Covid, in 2020.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M (https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS2&f=M)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/dec/8/biden-cancels-oil-while-americans-suffer-and-the-w/?utm_source=GOOGLE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=chacka&utm_campaign=TWT+-+DSA&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0BbUx2r3ntaLuUhfTY22k2r1H738zAMPHl0igKCcV0pE6j1y7tN6QBoCXxwQAvD_BwE

Rowan Scarborough. Never heard of him before, but a quick look at his bio shows he had to issue an apology for alleging that facial recognition tech had “identified” Antifa agitators among the Jan 6 mob. And he also wrote this: “Rumsfeld's War: The Untold Story of America's Anti-Terrorist Commander”. Published by Regeneron of course. :D

Anyway… to the point…

1.   ANWR has been a political lightning rod for nearly 50 years. The GOP have been trying to open it all through all that time. I can remember it being a Fox News nightly staple 15-20 years ago as they showed ludicrous photos of a couple of caribou walking around under a pipeline to show that oil field development would have “zero” impact on an internationally important ecological preserve.
Do you know when Trump sold those leases you? Jan 6 2021 (I shit you not :D). There wasn’t even the beginning of planning for production at that point.
Do you know how many of the 22 leases were sold? 11. Do you know how many were bought by oil companies? ZERO. And those leases are now, correctly, suspended while the environmental impact review and legal process the Trump admin “undertook” is investigated.

2.   Keystone XL – another political lightning rod and another one that hasn’t seen a drop of actual existing production shut down. One 1200 mile pipeline that has been in the news for the last decade as a red line for both sides (there are 3 millions miles of oil and gas pipelines in the US). And it was proposed and partially constructed to transport extremely dirty Alberta (i.e. Canadian) tar sand crude, which the oil companies were already moving away from despite provincial funding there because it is so expensive to move and refine.

3.   On the suspension of new leasing on US public lands: what percentage of existing leases are currently under production? How much US public land is currently available for exploitation? Is lack of supply a problem? Biden put 80 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico up for lease sales last year. Only 1.7 million were bought.  His administration issue 3500 oil and gas permits in 2021, 900 more than Trump did in 2017.

So is the Biden administration actually hampering US oil and gas production, or are conservatives just crying because he put the kibosh on two politically-explosive projects and ceased issuing new leases on public lands?

Can the biden administration get us out the supply diffs? Quick answer , btw I don't know , genuine question
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2022, 07:50:25 PM
No clue.

Off the top of my head (and I could be talking utter shite!) I would assume that oil companies are looking at ramping up production as we speak. But, I doubt if its as easy as turning on a tap. I'm sure there'll be a tonne of people to be hired and equipment purchased or put back into service at all points in the process from bedrock to delivery to the petrol station. Who knows what effects these chronic supply chain issues will have, especially with Russia off the table now.

I've seen headlines about them playing footsie with Maduro. How much there is to that and whether that's a plan to bring Venezuela back in, I've no idea. I would have thought the "turning on the tap" question would be even MORE applicable to them, but again, just talking shite here.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2022, 08:05:03 PM
No clue.

Off the top of my head (and I could be talking utter shite!) I would assume that oil companies are looking at ramping up production as we speak. But, I doubt if its as easy as turning on a tap. I'm sure there'll be a tonne of people to be hired and equipment purchased or put back into service at all points in the process from bedrock to delivery to the petrol station. Who knows what effects these chronic supply chain issues will have, especially with Russia off the table now.

I've seen headlines about them playing footsie with Maduro. How much there is to that and whether that's a plan to bring Venezuela back in, I've no idea. I would have thought the "turning on the tap" question would be even MORE applicable to them, but again, just talking shite here.

You talk good level shite to be fair. Well read. Thanks for response
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 11, 2022, 10:19:00 PM
Lots of Politicians in the USA have recently invested in oil company stocks which are heading for record highs , some will bs about pumping more oil some will say that we can handle the pain at the pump all are hoping it keeps getting higher before they offload them , the most corrupt carry on you could ever witness, but all legal of course and All with prior knowledge of what would happen in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 11, 2022, 10:40:04 PM
One thing which had come our of this, Russia is not geared up for a full confrontation with Europe, Their airforce would take a hammering in the air, the threat of nuclear weapons is all Putin has, for years the west was worried about the tank capacity of the Ussr, thing advances in technology have made tanks in general a busted flush. The era of artillery barrage has unfortunately not gone away.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: HiMucker on March 11, 2022, 10:51:34 PM
Out of interest would the Israeli Iron dome system be any sort of defence against the sort of shelling we are seeing in Ukraine?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on March 11, 2022, 10:54:44 PM
The tories will spin this on how tough they are on immigration and will win next election
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 11, 2022, 11:59:09 PM
Out of interest would the Israeli Iron dome system be any sort of defence against the sort of shelling we are seeing in Ukraine?
The Israelis apparently blocked sale of Iron Dome to Ukraine last year.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2022, 06:02:11 AM
Out of interest would the Israeli Iron dome system be any sort of defence against the sort of shelling we are seeing in Ukraine?
The Israelis apparently blocked sale of Iron Dome to Ukraine last year.
Because Russia runs Syria . Russia is right next door.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2022, 06:03:41 AM

https://www.ft.com/content/5a365f22-e751-4db6-b111-5c858c8236c7

City officials in Mariupol this week said they had confirmed the deaths of 1,300 people. “These are the ones they could count,” Romanenko said. “A lot of people are buried under destroyed buildings, and they can’t count them. There are still bodies lying around everywhere.” Gurin, the MP, told the FT that Russia had decided to resort to “mass murder” because it had thus far been unable to win the war
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2022, 07:39:38 AM
https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: grounded on March 13, 2022, 12:42:27 PM
https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/

There is a probably a kernal of truth in that, but i'd say a tad optimistic. Putin is going to flatten Ukraine before its all over and by the looks of things draw NATO into the conflict.
       
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 13, 2022, 01:50:51 PM
The chemical weapons thing could be the final straw I think  :(

Ukraine will be flattened too with or without them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2022, 01:56:18 PM
https://www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/

There is a probably a kernal of truth in that, but i'd say a tad optimistic. Putin is going to flatten Ukraine before its all over and by the looks of things draw NATO into the conflict.
     
Whatever happens Putin loses
If he flattens Ukraine he has to occupy it. There is no brotherhood between Russians and Ukrainians now.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on March 14, 2022, 08:17:38 AM
I thought China was the only country could end this - they could escalate it!

 The US says China will face harsh "consequences" if it aids Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, according to US media reports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2022, 08:50:28 AM
I thought China was the only country could end this - they could escalate it!

 The US says China will face harsh "consequences" if it aids Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, according to US media reports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486)
China is in a hole. It expected a short war. The country is the world's largest importer of wheat and oil. The longer the war lasts, the higher prices will go. The economy is weakening..
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tyrone08 on March 14, 2022, 09:49:54 AM
I thought China was the only country could end this - they could escalate it!

 The US says China will face harsh "consequences" if it aids Russia in its invasion of Ukraine, according to US media reports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60732486)
China is in a hole. It expected a short war. The country is the world's largest importer of wheat and oil. The longer the war lasts, the higher prices will go. The economy is weakening..

Surely is an absolute embarrassment to Putin and Russia. They are supposed to be a world super power but can not manage to overtake Ukraine. Now they are having to ask for help from China. No doubt the Russian generals where telling Putin how quickly they could stream roll Ukraine as they are a far too afraid of him to be honest with him.

Putin has seriously messed this up and instead of showing the world how much of a superpower they are he has shown the world what they really are. A corrupt country relying on nukes.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on March 14, 2022, 10:49:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiY83iWcbcA

Brand showing Trudeau for what he is
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2022, 11:42:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiY83iWcbcA

Brand showing Trudeau for what he is

Id rather listen to Jo Brand to be honest
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 14, 2022, 02:21:08 PM
Russell Brand ffs the guy that turned up at Twadell and gave the caravan muppets the time of day
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2022, 03:46:52 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/d129e110-9977-49c3-99ab-eb2b526b03ae

   "The basic reality seems to me that Ukraine has lost Crimea and the eastern Donbas and Russia has lost Ukraine. Countless thousands of Ukrainians and Russians will die before any of the parties involved recognise this."
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 14, 2022, 09:57:17 PM
Russia gonna give back East Prussua? What make you think it part of Russia to start with.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2022, 10:23:27 PM
Russia gonna give back East Prussua? What make you think it part of Russia to start with.

The obvious solution is to give it Ukraine as compensation.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2022, 06:03:56 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/tae-chilli-con-carne-and-cola-bottles-are-among-the-items-sent-in-ration-packs-to-ukrainian-soldiers-from-ireland-41456283.html
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 02:20:33 PM
Wimbledon talking about Banning Russian tennis players who have  family in Russia if they don’t denounce Putin t
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: nrico2006 on March 17, 2022, 02:31:08 PM
Wimbledon talking about Banning Russian tennis players who have  family in Russia if they don’t denounce Putin t

Weird one.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2022, 03:03:48 PM
Just ban russian players as unfair as that seems to some it just clears things up.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 17, 2022, 03:35:00 PM
Does the UK not see the hypocritics they all are. They bombed the shite out of bagbad and other cities for weeks trying to knock out artillery and anti missile systems. The amount of civilians killed during that had to be tens of thousand. At least we bombed the shite out of nobody, so we can say what going on in Ukraine is so wrong. The UK hasn't much of a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2022, 03:44:00 PM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 17, 2022, 03:47:27 PM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.

I suppose it's the double standards that sticks a bit fellow Johnny...

There's numerous examples of it around the world
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: nrico2006 on March 17, 2022, 04:11:00 PM
But you can't punish every citizen of a country because of that countries actions.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Armamike on March 17, 2022, 04:13:44 PM
The UK and US aren't the moral authorities they set themselves up as, given Iraq especially but that shouldn't be used to deflect  from the atrocities being inflicted by Russia right now.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 04:15:17 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: From the Bunker on March 17, 2022, 04:25:44 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?

32
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on March 17, 2022, 04:27:50 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?

32
yes with their rainbow flags and kneeling for social justice , all fake
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: From the Bunker on March 17, 2022, 04:34:49 PM
But you can't punish every citizen of a country because of that countries actions.

It's sort of like a peaceful protest. They are the minor victims in this war. If stopping a war causes a slight blip in their sporting career - so be it!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 17, 2022, 04:59:14 PM
Sadly the world is full of double standards. A big example of one these days is people calling out people as sheep for listening to the “MSM” because they believe it to believe “it” to be full of propagandist nonsense yet they read and believe stuff they read from “non MSM” which is also full of propagandist nonsense then they don’t see the irony in it.

It’s a pity the ordinary decent Russian will suffer it really is but with how bonkers your man is they do need to do something but tread carefully. Is it the right thing to do? I dunno that it is but then what is?

Like anything there is some political, and probably economical, opportunism going on too. It is just impossible to know what the right thing to do here without provoking world war three which many believe has begun anyway.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 17, 2022, 05:04:55 PM
But you can't punish every citizen of a country because of that countries actions.

Yip, Boris Johnson has been peddling that line for weeks in relation to the Oligarchs..  ;)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2022, 08:22:09 PM
How are any football teams going to Qatar for the World Cup ?

Indeed.

Another one, equally uncomfortable for most in the West (not just the USA).


Once upon a time, there was a country in the middle east with a largely secular government, and separation between religion and state. Elections that were widely believed to be open, fair and democratic. Yes, there were problems, including the unpredictability of a monarch still having an unduly large sway in matters, but it was heading the right direction.

Then, for self-serving reasons*, external actors overthrew the elected government of Mohammad Mosaddegh.

That was in 1953.

We're still compounding that error by doing deals with the known devils in the house of Saud rather than give the people of Iran the chance to take back their country. Its probably too late now. Those that knew democracy and understood it was worth fighting to regain are either dead or extremely old at this point.


*paranoia and greed
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on March 17, 2022, 08:30:39 PM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.

I suppose it's the double standards that sticks a bit fellow Johnny...

There's numerous examples of it around the world
Along with economic sanctions and a cultural boycott there was a sporting boycott of South Africa enacted during the apartheid era, not lifted until Nelson Mandela walked free, free elections announced and end of the Apartheid system.
The difference then was that it had all started from the bottom, building popular support and popular movements. The boycott and sanctions hurt everybody in SA, probably hit people at the bottom more, but every sanction and every boycott had the total support of the ANC who promoted such worldwide resistance. I had no issues then with aspects of obvious hypocrisy in the boycott what trumped all debate was that the Apartheid system had to be smashed and in a similar way Russia has to be similarly boycotted and sanctioned on all levels.   
Yes, nobody has ever succeeded with sanctions when the USA starts wars. NATO doesn't start wars generally, it's the USA who starts wars, Nato either stands idly by or joins in later at some stage.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2022, 06:15:14 AM
The Glenamaddy school bus

https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0317/1287032-irish-abroad/
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2022, 08:16:59 AM
It is hypocritical but at the same time it doesnt sit right having russians playing tennis aroud the world as if nothing is happening whilst their army flattens ukranian cities. God knows how many died in that theatre alone. The argument that ah but sure the brits did this and the Us did that doesnt somehow excuse russias actions.

I suppose it's the double standards that sticks a bit fellow Johnny...

There's numerous examples of it around the world
Along with economic sanctions and a cultural boycott there was a sporting boycott of South Africa enacted during the apartheid era, not lifted until Nelson Mandela walked free, free elections announced and end of the Apartheid system.
The difference then was that it had all started from the bottom, building popular support and popular movements. The boycott and sanctions hurt everybody in SA, probably hit people at the bottom more, but every sanction and every boycott had the total support of the ANC who promoted such worldwide resistance. I had no issues then with aspects of obvious hypocrisy in the boycott what trumped all debate was that the Apartheid system had to be smashed and in a similar way Russia has to be similarly boycotted and sanctioned on all levels.   
Yes, nobody has ever succeeded with sanctions when the USA starts wars. NATO doesn't start wars generally, it's the USA who starts wars, Nato either stands idly by or joins in later at some stage.

Apartheid was a brutal regime, but South Africa is run by gangsters at the minute, it’s not a nice place
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 18, 2022, 09:38:32 AM
It's kind of hard to look round the world these days and find a country that isn't run by gangsters - they just come in various forms  :(
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2022, 10:18:42 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/b153eb2e-c4ed-4d9d-b854-cbfa98038f21

Gustav Gressel, a Berlin-based analyst of Russian foreign and defence policy at the European Council on Foreign Relations said he believed the talks to be a Russian tactical ploy.
“I am always very sceptical about Russians negotiating,” he said. “We saw it repeatedly in Syria. The West or the Turks go in with these high hopes that the Russians are ready to change their position and de-escalate and it always turns out not to be the case.”
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on March 18, 2022, 10:21:56 AM
Yeah I think that is a widely held belief.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2022, 11:53:16 AM
Apartheid was a brutal regime, but South Africa is run by gangsters at the minute, it’s not a nice place

One problem is that a place run by gangsters tends to have an immature political culture, so one lot are replaced by another. Hence you have the Soviet crowd replaced by the equally unpleasant Putinists, or the Taliban swapping places with an out and out corrupt government in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2022, 12:38:47 PM
Well what about here The majority pick Dup and, Sinn Fein all the time, I think there been a working govt here 10out of 24yrs.But we complain a the time about how crap they are, but come election time pick the same side, expecting something different, then blame the same shit on the other side. When we are selfs are to blame for what happens in N Ireland. I honestly like to see Alliance get a chance at it here as the current setup doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on March 18, 2022, 01:50:24 PM
Well what about here The majority pick Dup and, Sinn Fein all the time, I think there been a working govt here 10out of 24yrs.But we complain a the time about how crap they are, but come election time pick the same side, expecting something different, then blame the same shit on the other side. When we are selfs are to blame for what happens in N Ireland. I honestly like to see Alliance get a chance at it here as the current setup doesn't cut it.

There's the good old, ones as bad as the other mantra right there...

Enforced coalition makes it near on impossible to implement the changes required and more often than not it's the DUP holding everything up, think 3 YR budget, every other party agreed with Murphy's proposed budget but not the DUP, so no budget...

Shinners make plenty of f**k ups of their own without taking the hit for the DUP's as well..
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2022, 06:13:00 PM
The NI opposition parties appear to be more rational, with the obvious exception of the batshit TUV.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: dublin7 on March 18, 2022, 09:36:54 PM
The NI opposition parties appear to be more rational, with the obvious exception of the batshit TUV.

NI parties don't do rational or basic common sense. If they did Stormont wouldn't be the shit show it is. Stormont is an example of how not to govern. Two parties on completely opposite sides who refuse to compromise. In years to come it'll be a case study on ignorance, stupidity and bigotry
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 18, 2022, 11:50:16 PM
Many thousands at a event in Moscow today to celebrate Annexation of Crimea. Putin the main event talking to his deluded followers.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2022, 03:41:05 AM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:02:19 PM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.

They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:12:20 PM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.

They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.

I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:17:27 PM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.

They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.

I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy

Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 09:25:26 PM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.

They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.

I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy

Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Any photos? Have always seen them in blue
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RedHand88 on March 19, 2022, 09:31:03 PM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.

They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.


I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy

Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Any photos? Have always seen them in blue

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752 (https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Solo_run on March 19, 2022, 10:02:16 PM
Putin's rally undone by the Cosmonauts turning up in yellow and blue instead of the regular uniforms. Fair play.

They always wear yellow and blue. They have done for years. Big Russian flag across the breast sort of banished the narrative.
Friendly reminder that western media is at it.


I'm almost 100% certain they wear a primarily blue uniform. I have been watching among the stars documentary with Chris Cassidy

Nah there's photos online going back to 2014 in the yellow uniforms. If they were making an anti Putin message they wouldn't have big Russian flags on their chest. It's a non story that the Russians are laughing at.
Any photos? Have always seen them in blue

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752 (https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/536436494278602752)

Any other photos where yellow uniforms were used in a time where Russia was trying to force it's will on Ukraine? 2014 was the annexation of Crimea. Later that year a Russian astronaut wore yellow. Astronauts typically wear blue regardless of nationality. Today there were Russian astronauts in Yellow a few weeks after the invasion of Ukraine. I wouldn't expect the astronauts to come out and say anything as there would be consequences on roscosmos. Then again, like you said could be Western media stirring things up
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on March 29, 2022, 08:36:55 PM
Free to read
Russia, Ukraine and Europe’s 200-year quest for peace
https://www.ft.com/content/567107fa-2760-452b-8452-e656ca5ca478
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Don Cockburn on April 06, 2022, 12:49:29 PM
The usual suspects from the People Before Profit - Anti Everything Alliance refuse to applaud to Zelensky in the Dail today.
 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2022, 12:54:15 PM
The useful eejits phrase comes to mind.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on April 06, 2022, 12:58:01 PM
The usual suspects from the People Before Profit - Anti Everything Alliance refuse to applaud to Zelensky in the Dail today.

People before profit are far left, Zelensky is far right. Zelensky is not exactly a good boy either. People before profit are bell ends of the highest order, its a poor reflection on irish politics that these yokes have any mandate at all.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 02:44:52 PM
What has Zelensky done that makes him a bad boy, genuine question.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on April 06, 2022, 03:05:02 PM
time to change their name to death before people bombs before people or putin before people
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Armagh18 on April 06, 2022, 03:06:04 PM
What has Zelensky done that makes him a bad boy, genuine question.
No expert but he’s rumoured to have dodgy millions in off shore bank accounts, no idea how true any of it is.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on April 06, 2022, 03:46:45 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


That's a complicated read but it appears he may have put some of his wealth offshore before becoming president. I'm not sure that shows that he's an extreme right winger which is what some of the posts on here are inferring.

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tc_manchester on April 06, 2022, 04:33:08 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


That's a complicated read but it appears he may have put some of his wealth offshore before becoming president. I'm not sure that shows that he's an extreme right winger which is what some of the posts on here are inferring.

Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest.

that's what my reading of it is as well - the money looks like it came from his acting career and he's not the first entertainer to hide his money from the local taxman - not the best look if you decide to suddenly become a politician. I haven't seen anything showing a rabid right winger as being alluded to on this discussion. At the end of the day if he had all this money stashed away he could have ran to the US when offered the chance instead of staying in Kiev
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on April 06, 2022, 04:56:53 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on April 06, 2022, 04:57:05 PM
A few threads on this board I think illustrate a lot don't understand what a right winger is. Tbh it seems to be one of those terms the world is redefining.

I can't put my finger on it but something doesn't feel right to me about Zelensky.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 06, 2022, 05:20:07 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Don Cockburn on April 06, 2022, 05:52:00 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on April 06, 2022, 06:06:24 PM
Yeah I think he is no more than shady and would agree with that. If the things being said wrt war crimes are to be believed then there is a very special place in hell for putin and many of those soldiers. I don’t know how this ends tbh.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2022, 06:28:34 PM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2022, 06:34:53 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.

I have not seen anyone with an admiration for Putin, I have seen a few who mistakenly think not looking at it as all Russia/Russians bad and all  Ukraine/Ukrainians good as having an admiration for the invasion or support for Putin
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on April 06, 2022, 06:45:29 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0406/1290846-oleksandr-zavhorodniy/

Guy killed in Ukraine who used to work in Aldi in Sandyford in Dublin, a shop I have been in from time to time.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 06, 2022, 07:15:17 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
The position of Barett and his ilk in response to the  unwarranted invasion and wholesale destruction is pathetic.  To claim that a response to the invasion is to call for an international movement to  pressurise Russia and NATO to cease aggressive ways  and negotiate. Don't send military support  to Ukraine as it will only prolong the war. That's nothing short of saying Ukraine should have surrendered
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..
  There were sustained mass protests all over the world against the Iraq war.  The birth of modern anti war protest was the Vietnam War. There were no such mass protests against the destruction of Chechnya or Syria. 
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right, the lack of condemnation of USA warmongering  or Israeli aggression does not make an iota of difference  when it comes to condemning Russia for this war. And it's fallacious to keep popping up with this piece of whataboutery.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2022, 07:32:34 PM
Zelensky may well be shady, as a lot of politicians are, especially in that region.
But it takes a serious stretch to try and whitewash what Putin is doing by continually pointing at Zelensky.

There are a few in Ireland who clearly have a sneaking admiration for what is Putin doing.
The far left and far right are almost indistinguishable at times.
The position of Barett and his ilk in response to the  unwarranted invasion and wholesale destruction is pathetic.  To claim that a response to the invasion is to call for an international movement to  pressurise Russia and NATO to cease aggressive ways  and negotiate. Don't send military support  to Ukraine as it will only prolong the war. That's nothing short of saying Ukraine should have surrendered
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.
The full scale invasion is a crime, bombing cities into pulp is a crime, deliberate targeting civilian neighborhoods is a crime, killing civilians is a crime, laying destructive siege to cities is a crime,  millions of displaced civilians is a crime, destruction of a country is a crime and what in response? RT headlines kneecapping of a few of the invaders. Yes that's a crime but cop on to yourself.

only if you are Russia, the West is held to very different standards..
  There were sustained mass protests all over the world against the Iraq war.  The birth of modern anti war protest was the Vietnam War. There were no such mass protests against the destruction of Chechnya or Syria. 
Regardless, 2 wrongs don't make a right, the lack of condemnation of USA warmongering  or Israeli aggression does not make an iota of difference  when it comes to condemning Russia for this war. And it's fallacious to keep popping up with this piece of whataboutery.

firstly, again it's not saying Ukraine has to surrender. It is saying the war will end, like all wars... all efforts should be towards ending the war not prolonging it. There are a number of recent examples where pumping more weapons into countries hasn't worked and only leads to more prolonged loss of lives.

the unnecessary of loss of life in Ukriane is no more important than the lives of those in Palestine, Yemen etc. yet I don't see sanctions or weapons being provided to them. The hypocrisy of the West must be called out. It has never been clearer,
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Average Score on April 06, 2022, 10:12:43 PM
And whom is going call this out, the world is fucked be surprised if humanity has a few hundred years left all funded by the greed of a few and the inability of the masses.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on April 06, 2022, 10:51:43 PM
And whom is going call this out, the world is fucked be surprised if humanity has a few hundred years left all funded by the greed of a few and the inability of the masses.

Humans are the biggest scourge ever put on this planet.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on April 07, 2022, 10:05:21 AM
There's so many strands to all this...
What's an 'extreme right-winger'? Russia keeps calling them Nazis. Zelensky is a Jew, so hardly is that. 'Nazi' and 'extreme-right' are terms used - universally, it seems - to discredit opponents, even if there's no basis for it. It's completely meaningless. To me, Zelensky is an EU and NATO puppet, and there's little doubt that the US managed regime-change in Ukraine in 2014 at Maidan, away from the then pro-Russian leader. The EU/ NATO/ US - the Atlantist Alliance - wants Ukraine in its sphere, Russia wants Ukraine in Russia's sphere. Everyone knows this. I don't think he's 'right-wing' - extreme, or otherwise. Right-wingers aren't gagging to be part of the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy


Like he isn't rounding up his own citizens and putting them in concentration camps and torturing them or poisoning them then, which is what the narrative that he's as bad as Putin would suggest. 

Yes, but he been knocking off "his own citizens" in the east for many's the year. Since 2014, in fact. I know it's in the 'breakaway' regions, and what's he supposed to do, but if he's claiming them as Ukrainian, then he is knocking off his own citizens. Furthermore, if Ukrainian troops are kneecapping Russian POWs - as is reported - then that, too, is a war crime. I would also have thought that damming water supplies to Crimea is also, if understandable, pretty provocative.

Of course, none of this justified a full-scale invasion. But, we should remember that we too are being told lies by our own media.

Heh?  Was he out killing people when he was playing president on a TV show, before he got elected to the actual role in 2019.  Now that is a bad actor!!!

TOOYFA!!!!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 07, 2022, 09:25:07 PM
Richard Barrett (and peers) position is a curious hypocrisy. He claims arming Ukraine just prolongs their misery.
What does Barrett suggest?
“The real hope lies in an anti-war movement that crosses the border of East and West and opposes both Putin and NATO.”
 In the absence of a steady weapons supply, Ukraine wouldn’t be able to resist, not for long that would inevitably lead to Ukraine surrendering and in a powerless position, Barrett isn’t in favour of supplying those weapons, perhaps he thinks Ukraine should have surrendered immediately after the invasion and negotiate with an enemy invader who have pledged to wipe them from the face of the earth. Although Barrett has protested against Russia’s aggression, his proposition is pie in the sky nonsense, more of a de facto position which in effect pro-Russia. Ukraine can burn while Richard  in his imagination travels the world organising mass protests against Russia and NATO.
In the Dail after Zelensky’s speech, he and 3 others refused to applaud, this in spite of Zelensky’s respectfully acknowledging Ireland’s neutrality and praising other valuable assistance Irish people have offered.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 10:23:27 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on April 08, 2022, 10:54:09 AM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

What do you mean they have refused to?

Can you explain how not running a story is censorship?

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Captain Scarlet on April 08, 2022, 11:59:57 AM
I see that McGurk has pointed to the fact that Ireland wanted to be seen to open the doors to the refugees but can't actually give them any real support. It's a shoot the messenger job in the replies BUT like it's all shaping up to be another version of Direct Provision.

Families living in City West or in hostels for a few years and no places for their kids in schools and certainly no real support when SNA's and other resource teachers are cut already.

I know anywhere is better than a warzone but Christ have a plan in place rather than just wanting to seen to be a great bunch of lads.

The Dept of Education said they were thousands of new places being made available but any teacher I know reckons in reality that means a table shoved in the corner where a volunteer will need to come and help re English.

Now, before anyone says it I think we should take refugees from everywhere once we have scope to actually help them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on April 08, 2022, 01:23:14 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: trileacman on April 08, 2022, 02:07:32 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2022, 02:13:07 PM
I see that McGurk has pointed to the fact that Ireland wanted to be seen to open the doors to the refugees but can't actually give them any real support. It's a shoot the messenger job in the replies BUT like it's all shaping up to be another version of Direct Provision.

Families living in City West or in hostels for a few years and no places for their kids in schools and certainly no real support when SNA's and other resource teachers are cut already.

I know anywhere is better than a warzone but Christ have a plan in place rather than just wanting to seen to be a great bunch of lads.

The Dept of Education said they were thousands of new places being made available but any teacher I know reckons in reality that means a table shoved in the corner where a volunteer will need to come and help re English.

Now, before anyone says it I think we should take refugees from everywhere once we have scope to actually help them.

This is classic giving out without any shred of a proposal to do better. By and large SNAs and teachers have not been cut but have had to be pressed into other roles because of Covid. If an extra student comes along what else do you do but put a table in the corner? What is the alternative to putting people up in hotels?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2022, 02:16:29 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine….
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Captain Scarlet on April 08, 2022, 02:19:22 PM
It's hardly my job to come up with proposals for the Dept of Education who are claiming they have plans in place for thousands of kids, when right now classrooms are overcrowded and under-resourced.

Also, why do THEY not have a plan in place that doesn't involve warehousing families in hostels and hotels for two years. I'm just a random lad on a forum not a highly paid official.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2022, 03:07:56 PM
It's hardly my job to come up with proposals for the Dept of Education who are claiming they have plans in place for thousands of kids, when right now classrooms are overcrowded and under-resourced.

Also, why do THEY not have a plan in place that doesn't involve warehousing families in hostels and hotels for two years. I'm just a random lad on a forum not a highly paid official.

Eight weeks ago they had no expectation of a rake of Ukrainians arriving. Some classrooms are overcrewded by the refugeees have been directed into schools that are less crowded. And as for the warehousing, what can they do, will you give them your house?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on April 08, 2022, 03:47:57 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine….

And the Parachute Regiment fired into a crowd of civilian demonstrators.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on April 08, 2022, 04:00:59 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine….

This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.

By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2022, 05:31:20 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine….

This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.

By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.
Agreed. But why didnt he stop in the east then if thats the way he wanted to justify his war. Obviously the targeting of civillians is disgraceful.   
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2022, 06:34:32 PM
If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years????
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 08, 2022, 09:04:26 PM
If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years????
  The Russian narrative is bollocks
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2022, 11:25:13 PM
If the Ukranians were being "genocidal" towards rebels and civilians in the Eastern wannabe breakaway regions you'd wonder why the Butcher in the Kremlin hadn't publicised it for 8 years????
  The Russian narrative is bollocks

That is a unnecessarily kind way of putting it.Bollocks doesn't have to be evil. 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 08, 2022, 11:53:55 PM
I'm dissapointed RTE have refused to run the story most international news outlets have (BBC, CNN, NY times) of Ukrainian soldiers executing Russian soliders. Live video of soldiers being executed, with the Ukrainian badge and what looks like that neo-nazi sun symbol on the upper arm. Censorship like that mimics the Kremlin's muzzle on perception of the war.

Leaving aside the RTE and censorship issue, my personal gut reaction to shadier elements of Ukrainian society committing atrocities is "so what?".

I do not condone their politics or summary executions, but this is a brutal war, against their fellow civilians, that was visited upon them by the Russians. We don't get to sit on the sidelines with nothing at stake beyond inflation and energy and food prices and pick who fights and how they react to the invasion. The Allies had to partner with the monster that was Stalin to beat Hitler and his troops were absolutely brutal to the Germans after what the Nazis had done in eastern Europe.

There is no nice way to fight back and defend your country, especially when the invaders are not exactly taking care to spare civilian targets or allowing them to escape.

Yeah, there are young Russian men who didn't ask or want to be there, but unfortunately for them there are hierarchies of concern and sympathy when it comes to war and their position is way down the pyramid.

All excuses the Russians could make for their atrocities. "We don't care", "We're defending ourselves", "No nice way to make war".

Your reaction is the same as the British Establishment to Bloody Sunday, "So What".
Except Russia are the ones invading Ukraine….

This is where it gets grey as Putin is a scummy wee power hungry dictator, he can justify his invasion because there has been attacks on Russian ethnics in some of those eastern regions since 2014 and recently by the very Nazi Ukrainian battalions talked about here.

By no means justifying the atrocities carried out by the Russian Army but no one is squeaky clean in this and the innocent and poor die first as in all wars.

 A Putin justification is 100% phony, always has been, no matter what military conflict,  government controlled press clampdown, jailing political opposition. The Kremlin just manufacture provocation. And what nazi battalions are you on about? The ultra right paramilitaries that existed in 2014  were merged into a regular army battalion and  subjected to regular army discipline. In 2014 the battalion numbered about 1500. These days the ultra right are about 10% -15% of that battalion. The role of the ultra right paramilitaries in the Ukraine conflict has been exaggerated 1,000 fold, it's some of the most blatant Kremlin propaganda and that bar is very very low.
If the paramilitaries are prepared to fight for and defend Ukraine, that's the best place for them, in the tent peeing out.
The Ultra Right coalition managed to get one deputy elected in the last election and he/it was kicked out later, the total electoral vote for the Ultra Right was minuscule.
In contrast to the popularity of the various ultra right factions in the upcoming French election, Ukraine politics has been virtually detoxified of the extreme elements.


Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 09, 2022, 09:33:32 AM
 Nazis stop being Nazis once they join the regular army!!
 
A report by the UN commission on Human Rights in 2016 detailed incidents over a 4 month period in 2015/16 where Azov had kept weapons and forces in used civilian buildings, and displaced residents after looting civilian properties. The report  accused the Azov of raping and torturing detainees in the Donbas region.

I am not saying it is justification or that there isn't neo Nazi elements elsewhere including Russia. Nobody wins in wars especially civilian populatiions and that why all efforts should be at ending the war not prolonging it.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 09, 2022, 04:53:22 PM
I say there more neo nazis In Russia and the USA than the Ukraine. If u watch the nazi death squads on Netflix, u seen the Urkaines dispised the Russians after the country been starved during the famine of the 30's. Welcomed the Germans but were on the receiving end of their master race complex. Russian retook Ukraine and they were bck under the thumb of soviet oppression. Is it a wonder they fight so hard for their freedom.. Russia bullied the surrounding regions for many yrs before USA or UK had any pre ww2 influence in the region.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 09, 2022, 07:20:04 PM
Before the war started , Zelensky started a programme to look at Ukraine's weaknesses
 under various scenarios including a war and mass immigration, in order to develop plans for each.
This is why the Russians failed to capture Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian leadership. 
He is an impressive leader.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 09, 2022, 07:26:52 PM
He wants to make Ukraine like Israel after the war and invited a Azov member to speak at the Greek Parliament a couple of days ago.. if you ignore all the questionable stuff....
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Kidder81 on April 09, 2022, 07:37:40 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 09, 2022, 07:40:39 PM
don't think that's correct.. he banned something like 10/11 smaller parties recently, I think the biggest of which held about 10% of the total parliament numbers
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: manfromdelmonte on April 09, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 09, 2022, 08:34:28 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Common in countries at war.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on April 09, 2022, 10:06:49 PM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?

Ha ha! And who pulls Zelensky's strings?! And who got rid of Yanukovych?! You know, there's all sorts of murky stuff going on. I think it's a bit rich 'the west' arming Ukraine so that Ukraine will essentially do the west's fighting, almost by proxy. But, of course, Ukraine is the one taking all the punishment. It's as, I think it was PadraicHenryPearse said: instead of egging on Ukraine to fight to the death, they should be guiding them towards a settlement.
The other thing that bemuses me is the EU suddenly fast-tracking EU membership for Ukraine. Much of what goes on there would just not sit well w/ 'EU values', and the championing of Ukrainian sovereignty and nationalism also seems to go against EU goals.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on April 09, 2022, 10:57:29 PM
The majority of ukrainians wanted rid of yanukovich
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 09, 2022, 11:01:31 PM
Yankovich pulled out of joining the EU at the last minute against his own promises hence it all kicking off back in 2014
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on April 09, 2022, 11:14:14 PM
Yankovich pulled out of joining the EU at the last minute against his own promises hence it all kicking off back in 2014

Humpf. He wasn't just about to join the EU. Anyway, politicians frequently break their promises, and it seldom leads to foreign-sponsored regime change.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2022, 09:21:30 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1512777682400038916
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2022, 09:23:33 AM
Yankovich was pro Russia. Ukraine has been in a low level civil war manipulated by Putin for the last 15 years. The state was weak and easy to manipulate. The war may be a game changer because of the Russian butchery.


https://www.ft.com/content/1c0e6e15-c8fe-4a84-99dc-12b6836bf0f4
Nato member states have agreed to supply new types of advanced weaponry to Ukraine, alliance representatives said, as Kyiv prepares for an offensive by Russia in the country’s east. The pledge came after a plea from Ukraine’s foreign minister for western countries to move faster with supplies or risk seeing “many people die . . . because this help came too late”. Six weeks since Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, ordered the invasion of Ukraine, Moscow’s troops have largely withdrawn from territory north of Kyiv after failing to seize the capital but are regrouping and rearming ahead of an attempt to advance in the eastern Donbas region, Ukrainian and western officials said. That has sparked demands from Kyiv for western countries to supply more heavy weapons, armour and more advanced systems. Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said he would use a Nato meeting in Brussels to ask for aircraft, missiles, armoured vehicles and heavy air defence systems, among others. Liz Truss, UK foreign secretary, told reporters after the meeting that member states had backed giving more weapons.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 10, 2022, 11:15:50 AM
Russia had the last guy in place just like the current leader in Belarus again the population wishes. Beginning to think we got the odd communist on here. Still looking reasons to blame some body else but Russia. Russia was on the receiving end most during WW2 but they invaded Finland and Poland which readily forgot when talking about WW2. Britain and France declared war on Germany for invading Poland, yet Russia done the same, at the same time and they allied with them, go figure.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2022, 11:53:16 AM
Didn't they seize Estonia,  Latvia and Lithuania at the time as well?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 10, 2022, 03:36:18 PM
Didn't they seize Estonia,  Latvia and Lithuania at the time as well?
Stalin was paranoid. He had 2 levels of buffer zone. The first was inside the Soviet Union- the Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine. The second was Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 10, 2022, 09:10:36 PM
Don't understand these public announcements on weapons, any weapons from countries should just be forwarded on instead of grand announcements. Even in war political parties in all countries try to make gains out of serious events for their own benefit.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 11, 2022, 01:24:27 AM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?

Ha ha! And who pulls Zelensky's strings?! And who got rid of Yanukovych?! You know, there's all sorts of murky stuff going on. I think it's a bit rich 'the west' arming Ukraine so that Ukraine will essentially do the west's fighting, almost by proxy. But, of course, Ukraine is the one taking all the punishment. It's as, I think it was PadraicHenryPearse said: instead of egging on Ukraine to fight to the death, they should be guiding them towards a settlement.
The other thing that bemuses me is the EU suddenly fast-tracking EU membership for Ukraine. Much of what goes on there would just not sit well w/ 'EU values', and the championing of Ukrainian sovereignty and nationalism also seems to go against EU goals.
Total gibberish, you are easily bemused.
So what settlement do you propose might happen? considering that any talks that have happened so far were conducted while  Russia were bombarding Ukraine cities and towns, refusing to hold a ceasefire. Yes I did listen to a spokesperson from PBP go on about a negotiated settlement  and referred to the protests against the war in  Russian cities as a positive and something which should be supported.
What universe do these People Before Profit idiots inhabit? Considering that most every protest against the war in Russia has been intimidated off the streets under pain of severe prosecution or directly dragged to jails and prosecuted, how on earth  does our PBP rep imagine that such protests can be supported?  Maybe sending a strong letter of disapproval to the Russian embassy?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on April 11, 2022, 04:07:46 AM
The thing is Russia is not even communists anymore they are  right wing nationalists back by orthodox church and even when they were communists they were authoritarian so i dont understand why the some lefties in Ireland think they are great. Some people still think Russia  is communists you have right wing trump supporters supporting Putin because they think he's the last saviour of white fundamentalists Christianity then you  have conspiracy people  in Ireland thinking putin is great aswell.A  jeep with a z sign was spotted in Ireland today.im worried some might even do something bad to Ukrainian refugees as we have well known conspiracy people in some circles in ireland calling all Ukrainians Nazis.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on April 11, 2022, 10:56:52 AM
Is it right that there is no opposition party in Ukraine ?
Who was funding the opposition?

Same people funding the Tories.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2022, 09:24:19 AM
It seems that the Russian warship has in fact f***ed itself, as previously recommended.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2022, 07:02:12 AM
It seems that the Russian warship has in fact f***ed itself, as previously recommended.

https://www.ft.com/content/9604cdb2-63cc-4da6-8968-059948955cf1

The loss of the Moskva is a significant loss . . . in terms of credibility for the Russian forces, regardless of how it happened,” a western official said. If it has been vulnerable to a missile attack by Ukrainians, “that questions Russia’s competence”, the official said,

if the sinking were “because of a fire which then resulted in the detonation of its magazine, where ammunition is stored, that is also incompetence”. Either way it is a “massive blow to Russia’s sense of pride in its military . 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2022, 07:02:45 AM
Earlier in the war

https://www.ft.com/content/60170757-2fad-4db9-b959-2fc088cc4bc6

The envoy played a recording of a radio conversation between Russian naval vessels and the lightly armed Ukrainian border guards stationed on the island. Korsunsky said the Russian vessels had twice demanded the Ukrainians lay down their weapons and surrender or be destroyed. “The answer was ‘go f**k yourself’,” said Korsunski, adding that the Russians then obliterated the structures on the island, killing the 13 guards stationed there.

That was the Moskva


https://www.ft.com/content/d73a3262-09f4-4045-8ce0-7bfe3ddc896e

The Moskva’s sinking was met with jubilation in Ukraine. Resistance to the ship became an early symbol of the fight against Russia when Ukrainian troops, ordered by the Moskva to surrender, responded by saying: “Russian military vessel, go f**k yourself.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2022, 02:07:43 PM
Earlier in the war

https://www.ft.com/content/60170757-2fad-4db9-b959-2fc088cc4bc6

The envoy played a recording of a radio conversation between Russian naval vessels and the lightly armed Ukrainian border guards stationed on the island. Korsunsky said the Russian vessels had twice demanded the Ukrainians lay down their weapons and surrender or be destroyed. “The answer was ‘go f**k yourself’,” said Korsunski, adding that the Russians then obliterated the structures on the island, killing the 13 guards stationed there.

That was the Moskva


https://www.ft.com/content/d73a3262-09f4-4045-8ce0-7bfe3ddc896e

The Moskva’s sinking was met with jubilation in Ukraine. Resistance to the ship became an early symbol of the fight against Russia when Ukrainian troops, ordered by the Moskva to surrender, responded by saying: “Russian military vessel, go f**k yourself.

In fact not everyone in the island was killed, the Russians shelled it and then sent in marines, but several of the Ukrainians were taken prisoner.

The Ukraine issued a postage stamp to commemorate the occasion, this went on sale a couple of days ago. The guys that fired the missiles sank the ship that day, probably getting more success than they had even hoped for.



Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 01:06:29 AM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT  for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)

It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'.  Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and  taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 22, 2022, 08:35:20 AM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT  for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)

It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'.  Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and  taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.

she spend a year doing it she said and all she did was rehash old tweets from Clare and Mick, hardly ground breaking....she measured mentions  in chinese media for f**k sake, she says they protested the deaths of children in Donbass a key justification of Russian invasion...She could have done the same for most govt. minister who have met the Saudis, UK, US, Russians politicians etc.  Xxxx met Saudi Crown Prince, his govt is responsible for 377k direct and indirect deaths in Yemen, militarily supported by The US and UK which supplies the weapons for the slaughter... at least no govt minister met any of them.

she makes a big deal of their refusal to talk to her but she herself blocked two journalists who quote tweeted her tweets... are they suing her or Rte?

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 12:31:27 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 02:02:47 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left  movements did not campaign against or  criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf)  only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.

This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran  and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine.  And this in context of months of international  attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway  and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: trailer on April 22, 2022, 02:09:08 PM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT  for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)

It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'.  Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and  taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.

Difficult to understand why people elect them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 22, 2022, 02:24:24 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left  movements did not campaign against or  criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf)  only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.

This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran  and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine.  And this in context of months of international  attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway  and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1496873424760844304?t=OVZS2Usgwd9N_nIk5nIWJw&s=19

Can you read the statement and advise where they are calling for what you continually "peddle".. they have articulated their position clearly... you continually misrepresent it.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on April 22, 2022, 05:42:46 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left  movements did not campaign against or  criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf)  only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.

This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran  and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine.  And this in context of months of international  attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway  and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1496873424760844304?t=OVZS2Usgwd9N_nIk5nIWJw&s=19

Can you read the statement and advise where they are calling for what you continually "peddle".. they have articulated their position clearly... you continually misrepresent it.
I have read that statement and replied to it before in this thread, as the first tweeted reply states it's complete utter drivel, de facto support of Russia's  war and ambitions under some nonsense of a UN negotiated settlement.
How long  do we wait for that settlement  while Mick and Clare campaign for Ukraine to be virtually disarmed and emasculated of any bargaining power, while Ukrainian towns  cities are being bombarded to rubble. Not just drivel but also first class hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 22, 2022, 06:06:40 PM
Do people like Clare Daly who set out their stall as justice campaigners always veer into madness eventually, or was she mad all along but it was kept under wraps?
There's a long tradition of west european left/peace campaigners who only criticized NATO. The German Green movement only campaigned to disarm western Europe and supported the existence of East Germany under Honecker and communism, no quid pro quo deescalation.
The west european peace/left  movements did not campaign against or  criticize USSR imperialism and the chronic political, economic and social suppression of so called satellite states in east europe
SF the Workers Party in Ireland is a case in point, from its inception - an Eoghan Harris masterpiece https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf (https://cedarlounge.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iir.pdf)  only condemned USA imperialism and peppered their manifesto with marxist leninist dogma. Later the Workers Party still aligned itself with International communism, pro USSR. They disintegrated into various splits when the USSR broke up.

This is a high profile gig for Clare and Mick. It's a gravy train for a Euro mp who actively supports Assad/Iran  and their proxies in Iraq, bellow loud about NATO/USA and silent about Russia military aggression. When they peddle their mantra 'no weapons to Ukraine', they are de facto supporting Russia's invasion and ambitions in Ukraine.  And this in context of months of international  attempts to negotiate a settlement pre invasion. If they don't get reelected, there's always the option to join lost politicians George Galloway  and Alex Salmond on Russia Today.

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1496873424760844304?t=OVZS2Usgwd9N_nIk5nIWJw&s=19

Can you read the statement and advise where they are calling for what you continually "peddle".. they have articulated their position clearly... you continually misrepresent it.
I have read that statement and replied to it before in this thread, as the first tweeted reply states it's complete utter drivel, de facto support of Russia's  war and ambitions under some nonsense of a UN negotiated settlement.
How long  do we wait for that settlement  while Mick and Clare campaign for Ukraine to be virtually disarmed and emasculated of any bargaining power, while Ukrainian towns  cities are being bombarded to rubble. Not just drivel but also first class hypocrisy.

the statement says nothing of the sort... "Russia must withdraw it troops from Ukraine immediately and cease all military operations"... there is no call for Ukraine to be emasculated.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Dag Dog on April 22, 2022, 08:59:33 PM
I read that Claire and Mick have been surgically exposed by Naomi O'Leary in the IT  for what they are, hypocrites and ideologically bankrupt.
https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435 (https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1515228143086354435)

It's a pity, though Mick was always a bit of a dullard but Claire had potential in the Irish political context to effect the pursuit of 'truth, justice, and a better tomorrow'.  Why she and Mick chose to seek election to the European Parliament was a curious choice but after reading the article and having observed their conduct in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, their choice makes sense and not of the honest ideological sort.
It's a strange irony that they have refused to answer questions about their conduct set by Naomi, have called for her to be expelled from the Euro parliament and have initiated libel proceedings against her in Ireland despite their public stance of support for a free press and  taking a stand against such libel actions to shut down investigations.

Difficult to understand why people elect them.
I bet a lot of people still think Mick Wallace is a great lad because he dresses like a beggar and doesn't toe the establishment line.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on April 24, 2022, 06:55:19 PM
pro russian  graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: marty34 on April 24, 2022, 07:29:39 PM
pro russian  graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them

Where's this at?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: clarshack on April 24, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
pro russian  graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them

Where's this at?

Dark Hedges
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JoG2 on April 24, 2022, 09:12:12 PM
pro russian  graffiti seen in northern ireland probably from the conspiracy mccloskey brigade who have been going around the north west they billions said would die from the vaccine by winter it did not happen now they think putin will save them

The great reset. There's a couple of vocal conspiracy loons up these parts shouting about QAnon now. The mind boggles
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 24, 2022, 10:14:00 PM
I was there earlier same day(not guilty by the way) still plenty of European visitors there during the day, so I suspect it was probably visitors but it not dark to after 9, so hard to tell
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2022, 04:17:47 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73

Since the invasion began, more than 40 countries have referred Russia to the ICC for investigation. The clamour has been fed by multiple attacks on civilian targets including Russia’s bombardment of a maternity hospital, and a theatre where women and children were sheltering in Mariupol, as well as Friday’s missile attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk that killed dozens.

https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73

Bucha — a short drive from Kyiv — is only one small window into what they believe is a pattern of unlawful killings, rapes and other crimes against civilians in swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine that were seized after the Russian invasion began on February 24, in what Putin called a “special military operation”. In other Kyiv suburbs from which Russian troops have withdrawn in recent days, photographers at the scene took shocking pictures: corpses stuffed into wells with bags over their heads; a dead woman with a swastika carved into her flesh, a brutal reflection of Putin’s casus belli of defeating “Nazis” in Ukraine. Even before the massacres, work had begun in international justice circles on tracking abuses connected to the Russian attack.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Keyser soze on April 27, 2022, 04:31:46 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73

Since the invasion began, more than 40 countries have referred Russia to the ICC for investigation. The clamour has been fed by multiple attacks on civilian targets including Russia’s bombardment of a maternity hospital, and a theatre where women and children were sheltering in Mariupol, as well as Friday’s missile attack on a railway station in Kramatorsk that killed dozens.

https://www.ft.com/content/2e67861d-f880-48c4-a11a-9bbe62be9a73

Bucha — a short drive from Kyiv — is only one small window into what they believe is a pattern of unlawful killings, rapes and other crimes against civilians in swaths of eastern and southern Ukraine that were seized after the Russian invasion began on February 24, in what Putin called a “special military operation”. In other Kyiv suburbs from which Russian troops have withdrawn in recent days, photographers at the scene took shocking pictures: corpses stuffed into wells with bags over their heads; a dead woman with a swastika carved into her flesh, a brutal reflection of Putin’s casus belli of defeating “Nazis” in Ukraine. Even before the massacres, work had begun in international justice circles on tracking abuses connected to the Russian attack.


Sure its only a culture war.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2022, 09:31:03 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/f299cb83-9f12-484b-8839-12ec96c87a72

 
Trashing Ukraine and making the west look weak, with the ultimate aim of strengthening the regime’s hold on power, is what drives Kremlin policy at the moment; with Putin as the winner and the only person who can save Russia,” says one European intelligence officer. 

 “Even though Russia’s operational focus has shifted to the east, we still see that Russia’s ultimate objective remains the same, which is to use military force to compel Ukraine to abandon its Euro-Atlantic orientation, and by extension reassert [Moscow’s] regional dominance,” says the senior Nato official
 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on May 25, 2022, 06:39:09 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f299cb83-9f12-484b-8839-12ec96c87a72

 
Trashing Ukraine and making the west look weak, with the ultimate aim of strengthening the regime’s hold on power, is what drives Kremlin policy at the moment; with Putin as the winner and the only person who can save Russia,” says one European intelligence officer. 



I think it's working.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on June 21, 2022, 02:01:01 PM
Wow,, nearly a month since the last post on this, but probably illustrates the apathy that generally sets in after the initial waves of horror.

With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 21, 2022, 02:21:19 PM
Ben Stiller over atm so hopin he sorts it all out.

I mean ffs its hard to take it all serious when theres celebs droppin in every few days
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on June 21, 2022, 02:39:54 PM
Ben Stiller over atm so hopin he sorts it all out.

I mean ffs its hard to take it all serious when theres celebs droppin in every few days
To be fair he has been a UNHCR ambassador for decades. He didn't just rock up
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2022, 08:12:31 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.

Russia are still f**ked medium term.

Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2022, 08:27:39 PM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.

Russia are still f**ked medium term.

Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.

How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show? 

If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?

Would the price of food drop?

How quick would that happen?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 07:52:16 AM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.

Russia are still f**ked medium term.

Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.

How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show? 

If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?

Would the price of food drop?

How quick would that happen?

the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 22, 2022, 08:40:59 AM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.

Russia are still f**ked medium term.

Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.

How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show? 

If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?

Would the price of food drop?

How quick would that happen?

the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick

But you feel that they will go back at some point and the war is to blame for it all?  Will the West ever do 'business' with Russia again or another way of saying it will the West ever do business with Putin again?

If he was 'removed' would that build confidence and allow that to happen?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 22, 2022, 09:13:02 AM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.

Russia are still f**ked medium term.

Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.

How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show? 

If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?

Would the price of food drop?

How quick would that happen?

the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick

But you feel that they will go back at some point and the war is to blame for it all?  Will the West ever do 'business' with Russia again or another way of saying it will the West ever do business with Putin again?

If he was 'removed' would that build confidence and allow that to happen?

If he goes then Happy meals will be back on the menu in Moscow.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on June 22, 2022, 09:16:08 AM
No, of course things won't go down as quickly. Even when fertiliser prices were going mad, it turned out the companies had increased profits of 14%, and I'd imagine it's the same across all commodities.

As for 'the west' and Putin... Well, maybe another way of looking at all this is that the invasion of Ukraine is a sign of the crumbling influence of The West in today's world. You know, Russia (not just Putin, by the way) reckoned that he'd be safe enough to go ahead and, largely, he's been right. Sure, it's a different mindset from the last century - completely at odds with our atomised, BLM/ gay pride flag-waving world - but he doesn't give a shit. And why should he? The West is faltering, and Russia and China might as well fill the power vacuum. The whole thing is full of so many contradictions, it's hard to know what to think! America and the EU, essentially, writing blank cheques for a pretty dodgy Ukrainian administration, that's led by a Jew and harbours bona-fide 'neo-fascists' which the western media lionises all the time! You know, if any of us in The West were to extol such 'blood and soil' policies as the Ukrainians are now (and fair play to them), then we'd be ostracised as 'far-right' lunatics. And as for our media... We all laugh at the Russian state media propaganda, but the lies from our own lot are more blatant and outlandish every day.

I think Putin will win this war, and I think it will accelerate the decline of influence of the EU and America. We've been on about how China is going to be the next 'big superpower'. Well, I think this could be the tipping point. Some reckon they're eyeing up Taiwan - possibly as early as next year. And w/ Western arms stockpiles somewhat depleted in Ukraine - sure, why not?

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tonto1888 on June 22, 2022, 10:34:52 AM
With Russia looking fairly near to 'liberating' the Luhansk-Donestk regions what does the short to medium term future hold now? With the cost of living spiralling a lot of countries are going to be hoping for a ceasefire / uneasy peace.

Russia are still f**ked medium term.

Unfortunately, millions of poor bstards across the world will likely starve due to Putin's madness.

How handy is to have a war to blame for this complete financial shit show? 

If the war stopped tomorrow would fuel drop back to 1.25 a litre, would home heating oil drop back to normal levels?

Would the price of food drop?

How quick would that happen?

the answer to that is, i would imagine, not quickly. Things go up very quick but they dont go the other way anywhere near as quick

But you feel that they will go back at some point and the war is to blame for it all?  Will the West ever do 'business' with Russia again or another way of saying it will the West ever do business with Putin again?

If he was 'removed' would that build confidence and allow that to happen?

I have no idea. I was just making a point that prices go up quickly but the reverse doesnt happen
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on June 24, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
https://gript.ie/actually-fine-gael-is-out-of-step-with-the-public-not-mattie-mcgrath/

Pure & utter nonsense from FG, fair play to rural independents for highlighting this. Country is turning into a leftie cesspit.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on June 24, 2022, 04:54:03 PM
Ahhh the gript, about as right wing as they come.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on June 24, 2022, 05:09:11 PM
Typical shite as usual from leftie fan boy Rossfan, still have nothing to add to any discussion. Shows how much of an idiot you are, if you believe the gript holds far right views.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rossfan on June 24, 2022, 05:27:25 PM
Usual foul language and abuse, par for the extreme right wing course.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on June 24, 2022, 05:38:37 PM
Shows your intolerance to views which are different to your own. No problem in dismissing & dishing others peoples views on this board for years. You can give it but cant take it. Poor little sensitive snowflake.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 05:40:27 PM
a grown "man" calling someone a snowflake
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on June 24, 2022, 05:50:39 PM
How do you it's a man?!

But he's right (!); Gript certainly isn't "as right-wing as they come". Also, we have become a leftie cesspit.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 24, 2022, 05:57:19 PM
we have become a leftie cesspit.

who is we?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 24, 2022, 06:34:32 PM
https://gript.ie/actually-fine-gael-is-out-of-step-with-the-public-not-mattie-mcgrath/

Pure & utter nonsense from FG, fair play to rural independents for highlighting this. Country is turning into a leftie cesspit.

The correct answer is probably along the lines of

"We don't see our incoming numbers ever swelling to significant figures; therefore we do not want to discourage anyone thinking of coming here at this time.

Of course, we cannot foresee the future, so if that changes, then maybe this house will need to debate it. But for now, the bigger problem is Ukrainians being put off by a perceived cold welcome and staying somewhere that puts them at risk."
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on June 24, 2022, 07:02:15 PM
https://gript.ie/actually-fine-gael-is-out-of-step-with-the-public-not-mattie-mcgrath/

Pure & utter nonsense from FG, fair play to rural independents for highlighting this. Country is turning into a leftie cesspit.

The correct answer is probably along the lines of

"We don't see our incoming numbers ever swelling to significant figures; therefore we do not want to discourage anyone thinking of coming here at this time.

Of course, we cannot foresee the future, so if that changes, then maybe this house will need to debate it. But for now, the bigger problem is Ukrainians being put off by a perceived cold welcome and staying somewhere that puts them at risk."

Fair enough interpretation of the issue, although in the medium to long term can see potential hazards expressed by Carol Nolan. Resource issue with a quick rise in population, access to healthcare,  proper housing, education etc. These are areas where we were struggling prior to the war. We should accept a percentage of Ukrainians based on our population & their access to key resources.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 09, 2022, 09:52:40 PM
There seems to be some decent Ukrainian gains in this counter offensive- bearing in mind twitter is the source and there's not much pro Russian stuff in my feed.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: HiMucker on September 09, 2022, 10:45:26 PM
I've been following the whole thing from the start. Morbidly fascinated, and I get why people switch off. The writing has been on the wall for the Russians for a long time but what has happened over the last week, and especially over the last 24 hrs has been spectacular and catastrophic in equal measure from a Ukraine and Russian perspective. The Russian army is on the verge of collapse. This could even be the beginning of the end of the Russian federation. Phillips O'brien, Mike Martin, trent telenko are good follows for info on twitter if you're not already on them.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 10, 2022, 07:37:23 AM
Cheers, only following Telenko from those 3, Thomas C Theiner @noclador is very good too.

See the Nuclear station is a worry again. That could end up being the biggest takeaway from this whole shit show and ironically could give Putin his cover excuse to leave Ukraine.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: LeoMc on September 10, 2022, 08:50:09 AM
Mark Urban of the BBC had been good in the early days also.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 10, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
The writing has been on the wall for the Russians for a long time but what has happened over the last week, and especially over the last 24 hrs has been spectacular and catastrophic in equal measure from a Ukraine and Russian perspective. The Russian army is on the verge of collapse. This could even be the beginning of the end of the Russian federation.

Agree with all of that.

I suppose the unknown is; will it be another February 1917 Revolution, or will the Federation splinter up?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 10, 2022, 04:31:55 PM
It's OK, it is a regroup not a rout.
The (Russian) Defense Ministry said it had pulled forces out of the village of Balakliya and the strategically crucial city of Izyum in the Kharkiv region, after a decision to “regroup” and transfer them to Donetsk in the south.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 10, 2022, 07:28:28 PM
It's OK, it is a regroup not a rout.
The (Russian) Defense Ministry said it had pulled forces out of the village of Balakliya and the strategically crucial city of Izyum in the Kharkiv region, after a decision to “regroup” and transfer them to Donetsk in the south.

HAHAHAHA

Ahh, the very same kinda regrouping as their withdrawals earlier as "peaceful gestures"!!

Comical Ali job all right  ;D
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 10, 2022, 09:47:30 PM
It's OK, it is a regroup not a rout.
The (Russian) Defense Ministry said it had pulled forces out of the village of Balakliya and the strategically crucial city of Izyum in the Kharkiv region, after a decision to “regroup” and transfer them to Donetsk in the south.

HAHAHAHA

Ahh, the very same kinda regrouping as their withdrawals earlier as "peaceful gestures"!!

Comical Ali job all right  ;D


Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 11, 2022, 10:49:12 AM
If this development is sustained it should help with inflation.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 11, 2022, 07:42:21 PM
Unfortunately I would say it is a big if. Would expect some twists here.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: From the Bunker on September 11, 2022, 07:52:24 PM
If this development is sustained it should help with inflation.

That's really funny!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: haranguerer on September 12, 2022, 07:47:14 AM
As noted earlier by Benny I'm sure there's not much pro-russian stiff on anyones feed - so surely have to take these optimistic scenarios with a massive pinch of salt...
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 12, 2022, 08:11:20 AM
Yeah I read another take on it which was not quite so optimistic. Have to be wary what you believe her like you say as there’s a lot of propaganda either way. Hope that’s just paranoia and the main news is correct mind you.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: screenexile on September 12, 2022, 02:04:44 PM
MacKenna says it’s only a small win so that’s clearly all it is!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 12, 2022, 03:56:27 PM
That gobshite Ewan? Unfortunately a stopped clock is right twice a day and that may ring true here!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: trailer on September 12, 2022, 04:07:28 PM
Yeah I read another take on it which was not quite so optimistic. Have to be wary what you believe her like you say as there’s a lot of propaganda either way. Hope that’s just paranoia and the main news is correct mind you.

There is war and then there is the propaganda war. Both important.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Puckoon on September 12, 2022, 04:32:37 PM
MacKenna says it’s only a small win so that’s clearly all it is!

He is in pretty deep
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 12, 2022, 05:53:58 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 12, 2022, 06:13:04 PM
Fox news analysis on Friday that the Ukrainians were getting whipped south of Kharkiv.
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1569321565531115523

today is full of tweets of Ukrainians in towns right at the Russian border in Kharkiv oblast, the equivalent of Culloville or Belleek in Ukraine, which were captured an hour after the Russians invaded in February.
And the Ukrainians continue to make less dramatic gains towards Kherson.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 12, 2022, 07:47:14 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.

 ???

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or stupid there....
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 12, 2022, 07:48:13 PM
Fox news analysis on Friday that the Ukrainians were getting whipped south of Kharkiv.
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1569321565531115523

Faux News are decidedly Pro-Russian.

Because the Democrats are Pro-Ukraine.

That's how bad they've got.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 08:29:33 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.

 ???

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or stupid there....
Nobody knows how long the war is going to last. The big powers limit the amount of help they will provide because they don't want to go to war against Russia.
Ukraine wants more help . It's a mess.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 04:26:18 PM
MacKenna says it’s only a small win so that’s clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Taylor on September 13, 2022, 04:40:15 PM
MacKenna says it’s only a small win so that’s clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.

It is some craic when Covid is brought up - he was yapping about Cheltenham being on when Covid first broke and how it was going to kill so many people and should have been cancelled/lockdown.
Then he changed tack completely and now saying he was against lockdowns form the beginning.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: yellowcard on September 13, 2022, 05:09:53 PM
MacKenna says it’s only a small win so that’s clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.

Is it the case that he can't get work as a journalist anywhere and he has spotted a niche to be as antagonistic and controversial as possible on Twitter in order to develop a profile? Either way he has built up a small group of sycophants for himself so he knows what he is at to stay relevant. I didn't actually mind him when he was doing sports journalism but when he started getting involved in social issues, health and world politics he began straying way out of his comfort zone. I still find it funny how he manages to take the contrarian view on absolutely every issue possible.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 13, 2022, 05:37:14 PM
Far from alone on the contrarian view these days. Or "critical thinkers" as they like to call themselves  ;D
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 13, 2022, 05:48:08 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0913/1322098-ukraine-latest/

Ukraine has vowed to liberate all of its territory after driving back Russian forces in the northeast of the country.
Kyiv has also called on the West to speed up deliveries of weapons to back its advance.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 07:42:04 PM
MacKenna says it’s only a small win so that’s clearly all it is!
It's amazing the way he has systematically adopted a contrarian position on every topic ever and yet try to maintain its a genuinely held belief. Wonder what his next long term genuinely held belief will be? Doubt he knows.

Is it the case that he can't get work as a journalist anywhere and he has spotted a niche to be as antagonistic and controversial as possible on Twitter in order to develop a profile? Either way he has built up a small group of sycophants for himself so he knows what he is at to stay relevant. I didn't actually mind him when he was doing sports journalism but when he started getting involved in social issues, health and world politics he began straying way out of his comfort zone. I still find it funny how he manages to take the contrarian view on absolutely every issue possible.
l think he has a subscription base on the go via Patreon or some such set up for his musings.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Gmac on September 13, 2022, 08:26:45 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
the USA and the eu are involved in a proxy war against Russia they are arming the Ukrainian troops and paying zelensky to keep it going, how it will end up I don’t know but I’m sure it will be a huge mess and won’t be resolved for years .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 08:35:16 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
the USA and the eu are involved in a proxy war against Russia they are arming the Ukrainian troops and paying zelensky to keep it going, how it will end up I don’t know but I’m sure it will be a huge mess and won’t be resolved for years .
True. There's only one person responsible for rolling the tanks over a border tho.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 13, 2022, 08:40:52 PM
Nobody knows how long the war is going to last. The big powers limit the amount of help they will provide because they don't want to go to war against Russia.
Ukraine wants more help . It's a mess.

To be honest, there isn't much more they can do without pulling the trigger themselves.

Its not like they can just give them 5000 tanks and say "there ye go lads, enjoy".

Modern military equipment is extremely high maintenance - and you need to be able to fix complex issues quickly in the field.

Artillery pieces or self propelled guns are away from the front and are *relatively* easy to work with - there isn't the same pressure on to fix before a Russian tank comes out over the next hill and blows you up.

Ukraine are and will continue to transition toward NATO equipment, but it just takes time to get their people up to speed on how to run them. Time that unfortunately is in very short supply.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 13, 2022, 08:44:06 PM
Ukraine is being helped a lot in terms of arms resupply by the West. Maybe this is making a difference.
Maybe??
the USA and the eu are involved in a proxy war against Russia they are arming the Ukrainian troops and paying zelensky to keep it going, how it will end up I don’t know but I’m sure it will be a huge mess and won’t be resolved for years .

They really didn't have a choice, and continue to not have any choice.

Roll over for Putin in Ukraine and in 50 years time*, students in history classes would be wondering why they learning nothing from Chamberlain.

*Assuming that the next war Putin would have inevitably started after being encouraged by the West's inaction followed didn't go nuclear.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 13, 2022, 08:58:54 PM
Putin tore the arse out of it. He judged that the West was weak after the Afghanistan pullout. He decided that nobody would help Ukraine, same as in 2014 .
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 13, 2022, 10:26:35 PM
It seems some been happy the Ukraine roll over, haven't learned the lessons of Russia from Pre Ww"2 rolling into Finland and Poland when a gap opened for them. Same applies here, they would roll the whole to Poland given half a chance. And we know what that lead to last time.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on September 13, 2022, 10:40:04 PM
The idea that Putin wants to steamroll his way all over eastern Europe is put out there to justify war-mongering. In fact, the west is as culpable in all this as Russia and has been playing power games in that neck of the woods for a long time. The West sponsored the coup in 2014. Russia saw this and decided they had to do 'something'. And they did...
I don't understand why some people think Russia are still 'the commies', or why Ukranian blood and soil nationalism is to be backed to the hilt, whilst such instincts in western Europe are decried as 'far-right'. In any case, the Ukrainians and the Russians are both essentially fighting for values that are not 'ours'. It should be none of our business, but it is because of... resources? What else?! Can anyone honestly say there'd be such a shit-show over, say, Finland?! Who would be bothered?!
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 13, 2022, 11:07:10 PM
The idea that Putin wants to steamroll his way all over eastern Europe is put out there to justify war-mongering. In fact, the west is as culpable in all this as Russia and has been playing power games in that neck of the woods for a long time. The West sponsored the coup in 2014. Russia saw this and decided they had to do 'something'. And they did...
I don't understand why some people think Russia are still 'the commies', or why Ukranian blood and soil nationalism is to be backed to the hilt, whilst such instincts in western Europe are decried as 'far-right'. In any case, the Ukrainians and the Russians are both essentially fighting for values that are not 'ours'. It should be none of our business, but it is because of... resources? What else?! Can anyone honestly say there'd be such a shit-show over, say, Finland?! Who would be bothered?!

Is this sarcasm?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 13, 2022, 11:16:49 PM
Geopolitical games are as old as time itself and proximity matters. Russia have been involved in more than their fair share (Syria Chechnya, Georgia /South Ossetia in very recent memory) rolling your tanks across the border crosses a line.  Their bluff was called.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 13, 2022, 11:17:44 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0913/1322098-ukraine-latest/

Ukraine has vowed to liberate all of its territory after driving back Russian forces in the northeast of the country.
Kyiv has also called on the West to speed up deliveries of weapons to back its advance.

That'll be some achievement if they retake Crimea. It'll be the end of Putin, and the world will become even more dangerous since there's not a clear line of succession in the Kremlin. Putin's convinced of his own invincibility and seems to have developed a bunker mentality. When he can't keep reality out any longer, it's going to be hard on him, and christ knows what he'll do. My money would be on there being some general refusing to follow his orders at some point, facilitating a coup, and maybe even trying to take Putin out, Stauffenberg style. I wonder if the Russian people will wake up to the fact that they've been lied to all this time. But as you can see from certain contributors to this board, when people get radicalised by a constant diet of fascist propaganda, it's hard to get reality through to them.

What then for Russia? Disintegration into independent republics led by strongmen? The nuclear aspect makes this a frightening scenario.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: burdizzo on September 13, 2022, 11:22:47 PM
You know what they say? "It's dangerous to believe your own propaganda."
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 14, 2022, 01:20:16 PM
Russia’s budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports

https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 14, 2022, 01:24:32 PM
Its a bit like a siege at the minute, they gathered around the walled city and waited till they ran out of food and water and then marched in victorious..

Who will run out of money first?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 14, 2022, 01:35:03 PM
Russia’s budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports

https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
That link requires a  FT subscription.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Harold Disgracey on September 14, 2022, 01:55:54 PM
Russia’s budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports

https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
That link requires a  FT subscription.

12 foot ladder is your friend.

https://12ft.io/

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fd9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 14, 2022, 06:41:26 PM
 The 12 foot ladder ;D. That’s a good one.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 14, 2022, 07:35:52 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62899474
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Ash Smoker on September 14, 2022, 07:59:26 PM
Russia has pumped serious money into disruption and disinformation in the West.
I can imagine that daft idiots like Clare Daly and Mick Wallace are easy converts to start spouting Russia propaganda.
However, I bet Ewan MacKenna would churn out the pro-Putin, anti-Zelensky stuff for free, just to get attention.

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1569739548812345356
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 14, 2022, 08:17:04 PM
Ukraine, a country where teachers go to war to defend their schoolchildren from russian marauders.

Ukrainian pupils meet their teacher Roman Palamarchuk who visits them from the frontline
https://youtu.be/RaTr6Yt_H1c
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 09:10:19 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.

Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2022, 10:44:59 AM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.

Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?

The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
IF, and that’s an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 15, 2022, 11:42:24 AM
IF, and that’s an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.

With the money possibly drying up (well no where near it was) someone is bound to be plotting something, the rich Russians have lost so much already around Europe and beyond that there has to be discussions on how to end it with saving face or overthrow him and be done with it
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 01:01:43 PM
The buzz word is pivot, the question is can Russia pivot its gas supplies to Asia?
'Yes they can' but due to many difficulties the most optimistic forecast is that by 2030 they can supply Asia with about 50% of what they use to sell to Europe (2021 figures 160 bcm billion cubic meters).
https://www.csis.org/analysis/can-russia-execute-gas-pivot-asia (https://www.csis.org/analysis/can-russia-execute-gas-pivot-asia)

Currently, with doable adjustments they can pipe 30 bcm  to Asia 
But due to sanctions,  essential western companies have pulled out, missing tech know how and equipment, they can not increase that flow in the short term and even long term there are limits, max 80bcm p/a

Add to that, they will have absolutely no bargaining power with China, essentially  just China's bitch.
Might not even be economically viable to extract gas.
Their army is a paper tiger, Putin and cronies have siphoned off hundreds of billions over the years, their incredible resource rich economy is facing disaster. One of the worst decisions ever made to invade Ukraine, compounded by disaster after disaster, both on the battlefield and on the propaganda front. Russia are the pariahs of the western world, as Arthur Koestler poetically put it, " the scúm of the earth"
The Kremlin cannot send in more troops, they refuse to go.
Their army is sh'it, their so called crack troops, the 431 parachute regiment  were shot to pieces outside Kiev and more recently the Kremlin's own Tank Guard have been decimated. For the first time ever the 431 elite parachute regiment did not march in that Moscow parade.

Even if the Kremlin declared war, it's too late to save the day. The Ukraine Army will have punched so many hole in the Kherson region they will be able to throw stones across into Crimea.


Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 02:12:02 PM

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: LeoMc on September 15, 2022, 02:43:56 PM
IF, and that’s an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.

With the money possibly drying up (well no where near it was) someone is bound to be plotting something, the rich Russians have lost so much already around Europe and beyond that there has to be discussions on how to end it with saving face or overthrow him and be done with it

If there are any left…..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: HiMucker on September 15, 2022, 02:45:46 PM
IF, and that’s an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.
I would say in general the mean stream media are nearly a week behind events happening on the ground in Ukraine. They were a bit quicker on it with the events of the last week, but that's because twitter and telegram exploded with info. You can get a much better feel and understanding for what's happening there by following a few several twitter and telegram accounts, and I include pro Russian ones in that. There is bias in everything reported, generally the Ukrainians at official level play down a lot of their successes. There is tons of evidence that suggest that their casualty figures for the Russian army are at least 20% less than what they should be. I think  there is no ifs about it, you can say with 100% certainty that Putin has and is making a complete balls of it. Id say 5/1 of Putin being removed/killed, or a complete Russian army collapse by the end of the year or both, would be very generous odds.
As I said in an early post, I get why people switch off. But that is one of things I find fascinating about it. That you are watching history unfold, that the same people switched off now, will be glued to documentaries about in years to come.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 15, 2022, 02:56:16 PM
IF, and that’s an if, putin is making the balls of this war etc that the media would have you believe then you would wonder would there be someone from within who would overthrow him.

With the money possibly drying up (well no where near it was) someone is bound to be plotting something, the rich Russians have lost so much already around Europe and beyond that there has to be discussions on how to end it with saving face or overthrow him and be done with it

If there are any left…..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths

That's why they are dead, possibly plotting
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on September 15, 2022, 03:38:31 PM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.

Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?

The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.

Lets not forget about India either.

If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 04:02:36 PM
That was predicted to happen a long time ago but hasn't for whatever reason. It wouldn't be good for "the west" I suspect if it did happen.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 06:04:54 PM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.

Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?

The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.

Lets not forget about India either.

If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
Russia has not the infrastructure to pipe gas in any serious quantity from the Siberian reserves. As i wrote earlier, without sales to Europe they are fecked. At best they can pipe 50% of Europeans sales 2021 towards Asia by 2030. Currently they can only pipe 30% and at severely discounted prices to Asia. The Kremlin boast about their alternative, a pivot towards Asia was full of hot air. They expected European countries to fold.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 15, 2022, 06:23:32 PM
I don't know anything about oil pipelines etc etc but like you say I suspect if it could have happened by now it would have happened by now.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 15, 2022, 07:58:54 PM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.

Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?

The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.

Lets not forget about India either.

If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
Russia has not the infrastructure to pipe gas in any serious quantity from the Siberian reserves. As i wrote earlier, without sales to Europe they are fecked. At best they can pipe 50% of Europeans sales 2021 towards Asia by 2030. Currently they can only pipe 30% and at severely discounted prices to Asia. The Kremlin boast about their alternative, a pivot towards Asia was full of hot air. They expected European countries to fold.

https://www.ft.com/content/25451156-434a-4c36-96ef-774d99c89688
The best geological prospects for a game changer akin to what happened in the 2010s lie with the huge Bazhenov shale oil formation in Siberia. But western sanctions mean that the prospect of western oil majors helping Russia technologically is a geopolitical dead end.  
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2022, 10:44:27 PM
 Seafold , you need offer a 12 foot ladder with each of those exclusive subscription links. :)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 16, 2022, 01:24:05 AM
Seafold , you need offer a 12 foot ladder with each of those exclusive subscription links. :)

One should have a subscription to the FT to better manage one's investments.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 16, 2022, 05:29:15 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1570493649284378628
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 16, 2022, 01:02:14 PM
Evidence of systematic torture in the areas around Kharkiv recently recaptured by Ukraine. Loads of disappeared. The Shankill butchers would be amateurs compared to the Russian Army.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/14/russia-ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-aims-to-consolidate-gains-in-kharkiv-biden-says-war-will-be-long-haul-live
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Itchy on September 16, 2022, 01:51:43 PM
Evidence of systematic torture in the areas around Kharkiv recently recaptured by Ukraine. Loads of disappeared. The Shankill butchers would be amateurs compared to the Russian Army.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/14/russia-ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-aims-to-consolidate-gains-in-kharkiv-biden-says-war-will-be-long-haul-live

Was it as good as the torture chambers run the Brits and Yanks? Doesnt look to have as good technology. Russian torture is miles behind the west
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: An Watcher on September 16, 2022, 01:54:02 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: LeoMc on September 16, 2022, 02:42:02 PM
Energy expert on TV (Newsnight!!) thinks that most EU governments including Germany have put enough mitigations in place to not be relying on Russian gas this winter, his only caveat is that if it's a really cold winter then there might be problems.

Has Putin crashed one of Russians main cash cows or will China and the likes fill that void?

The Germans have built up decent stocks and the high prices mean that people will cut back their use a bit.
Putin can sell to China, although there may not be pipelines running that direction. But Russia may find the Chinese are not the ideal customer either, one big customer can put pressure on you.

Lets not forget about India either.

If the likes of China and India start buying gas from Russia for way less than it's trading on the international markets a lot of other countries will be tempted to get in on that action....
Russia has not the infrastructure to pipe gas in any serious quantity from the Siberian reserves. As i wrote earlier, without sales to Europe they are fecked. At best they can pipe 50% of Europeans sales 2021 towards Asia by 2030. Currently they can only pipe 30% and at severely discounted prices to Asia. The Kremlin boast about their alternative, a pivot towards Asia was full of hot air. They expected European countries to fold.

https://www.ft.com/content/25451156-434a-4c36-96ef-774d99c89688
The best geological prospects for a game changer akin to what happened in the 2010s lie with the huge Bazhenov shale oil formation in Siberia. But western sanctions mean that the prospect of western oil majors helping Russia technologically is a geopolitical dead end. 
China will do what is best for China in the medium and long term. It would have been in their interest to see the conflict continue and the West having to get involved militarily as it would have kept focus away from the South China Sea.
With Russia starting to look weak and the US able to keep an eye on their expansion southwards the Chinese may well be eyeing an expansion northwards. All those natural resources and a weakened Russia.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 16, 2022, 03:47:00 PM
China and Russia are allies who think the west is weakening. If UKraine had been a success for Putin , China might have attacked Taiwan
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: tbrick18 on September 16, 2022, 04:47:09 PM
Russia’s budget surplus evaporates as energy revenues shrink
August figures suggest sharp drop in receipts from oil and gas exports

https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e
That link requires a  FT subscription.

12 foot ladder is your friend.

https://12ft.io/

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fd9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e

Thats a new one for me! Nice one  :D
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 16, 2022, 05:15:46 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62931224
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 16, 2022, 06:38:47 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Whataboutery nonsense
I am without sin and I call them torture chambers.

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 16, 2022, 08:04:40 PM



Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 18, 2022, 01:28:14 AM
Dogs of War
https://twitter.com/i/status/1571209800213561345 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1571209800213561345)

'A dog named Lyalya participated in full liberation of Kupiansk together with Kraken division. '
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Itchy on September 18, 2022, 10:02:29 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Whataboutery nonsense
I am without sin and I call them torture chambers.

It wasn't whataboutery, I was just noting the lack of technology etc that Russians have in their torture Chambers compared to countries like the UK and USA which are much more advanced. Of course all torture Chambers are great and very important for armies to have to get info to "Save lives"
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 19, 2022, 08:01:31 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0919/1324135-ukraine-russia/

With its battlefield losses mounting, the Russian army is seeking contract soldiers for what it calls the "special military operation" in Ukraine, and is offering nearly $3,000 a month as an incentive.

A special unit stationed a recruitment truck in the southern city of Rostov on the weekend and masked soldiers handed out brochures titled "Military service on a contract -the choice of a real man."

Where does this leave Gillette?

https://youtu.be/OAkVDCqVY6w
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 19, 2022, 11:41:58 AM

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 19, 2022, 12:55:53 PM
Putin is in a hole. Currently Ukraine is classed as a special operation. If he wants to intensify it then it becomes a war. But Putin is worried about public reaction to him personally. Because he is quite weak. 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 19, 2022, 01:57:07 PM
Putin is in a hole. Currently Ukraine is classed as a special operation. If he wants to intensify it then it becomes a war. But Putin is worried about public reaction to him personally. Because he is quite weak.

He had a half baked idea that he could sieze Hostomel airport, send a few hundred troops into Kyiv, seize the government buildings and install a puppet likely that crook Yanukovych. Once that failed he was in trouble
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: keep her low this half on September 19, 2022, 03:36:23 PM
Putin is in a hole. Currently Ukraine is classed as a special operation. If he wants to intensify it then it becomes a war. But Putin is worried about public reaction to him personally. Because he is quite weak.

He had a half baked idea that he could sieze Hostomel airport, send a few hundred troops into Kyiv, seize the government buildings and install a puppet likely that crook Yanukovych. Once that failed he was in trouble
And therein lies the problem with long established dictators. No-one is brave enough to tell them a hard truth as they are afraid of the shoot the messenger syndrome. It is easy to be a nodding dog and progress when times are good so people do.

No-one told Putin that his army was corrupt and half assed as he didn't want to hear that. They genuinely believed that the Ukranians would welcome them with open arms and that the west would do nothing. Colossal mistake for an ex KGB officer to make. Huge intelligence failings.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 19, 2022, 04:11:00 PM
And therein lies the problem with long established dictators. No-one is brave enough to tell them a hard truth as they are afraid of the shoot the messenger syndrome. It is easy to be a nodding dog and progress when times are good so people do.

No-one told Putin that his army was corrupt and half assed as he didn't want to hear that. They genuinely believed that the Ukranians would welcome them with open arms and that the west would do nothing. Colossal mistake for an ex KGB officer to make. Huge intelligence failings.

If he ever was a good intelligence officer, which is doubtful, then while living in the Kremlin he has lost touch.
I'd say the Queen of England managed to keep a better understanding of the world after 70+ years in power, possibly because people did not think that she would have them thrown out a window.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 19, 2022, 08:22:25 PM
Well said itchy, let he without sin and all that
Whataboutery nonsense
I am without sin and I call them torture chambers.

It wasn't whataboutery, I was just noting the lack of technology etc that Russians have in their torture Chambers compared to countries like the UK and USA which are much more advanced. Of course all torture Chambers are great and very important for armies to have to get info to "Save lives"
'He is who without  sin and all that' implies the whataboutery aspect.
I say we should apply equal critical examination over Russia's toxic sludge of an invasion as we do towards USA/NATO's unjust wars of aggression.
Russia has already committed the most serious of war crimes by invading Ukraine and since then there has been a tissue of horrible war crimes committed by their shít for brains army.
Even in a city like Kharkiv which once had a strongish Russian connection, has totally shifted over to Ukraine identity. The Baltic states plus the Nordic countries and Poland have 100% supported Ukraine right from the beginning. Maybe they understand the stakes better, more than anybody in western europe. Whataboutery is the mantra of the kremlin's propaganda, peddled by their world wide contingent of 'useful idiots'.
 They even convinced the whole world that they had an invincible army of great military prowess :D





Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 19, 2022, 08:49:46 PM
Very little of the Ukrainians had strong Russian identity, they hated them well bck into the early 1930's.Famine a major cause  of the hate, in a way lot like here. They welcomed the Germans and held parades for them, only to be massacred by them as they saw them as a, lesser race.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 19, 2022, 08:53:22 PM
Very little of the Ukrainians had strong Russian identity, they hated them well bck into the early 1930's.Famine a major cause  of the hate, in a way lot like here. They welcomed the Germans and held parades for them, only to be massacred by them as they saw them as a, lesser race.
That's true but around 20% or so of Ukrainians are Russian speakers and live in the East and in Crimea. Shakhtar Donetsk come from a russian speaking area.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 19, 2022, 08:57:49 PM
You think the majority of Ukrainians would speak Russia but like us and English. Most Polish if the old era could speak Russian, German foreby Polish, now they all over here, they added English to their repertoire.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 20, 2022, 12:54:36 AM
(Left) Nazi Invasion of Ukraine, 1943, Kharkiv. (Right) russian Invasion of Ukraine, 2022, Kharkiv.


Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 20, 2022, 01:23:22 AM
Very little of the Ukrainians had strong Russian identity, they hated them well bck into the early 1930's.Famine a major cause  of the hate, in a way lot like here. They welcomed the Germans and held parades for them, only to be massacred by them as they saw them as a, lesser race.
That's true but around 20% or so of Ukrainians are Russian speakers and live in the East and in Crimea. Shakhtar Donetsk come from a russian speaking area.
You do realise that hordes of  Russians were planted into Ukraine, that's how you tally Russians in the nearby republics, by the horde.
The % of Russian speakers means nothing in a country where Ukrainian was a degraded language until independence was obtained with  90% of the vote  supporting it in a referendum. Zelensky was not fluent in the Ukrainian language and had to brush up rapidly after the invasion. Many older people were only taught Russian in schools.
The important stat is how many Ukrainians identify as being Ukrainian, that's estimated to being over 90% at present and that's a rock solid identification.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 20, 2022, 06:53:23 AM
Long range US missiles are a hoor

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0920/1324322-ukraine/Russia's Black Sea fleet has relocated some of its submarines from port of Sevastopol in Crimea to Novorossiysk in Krasnodor Krai in southern Russia, the British military has said.

https://www.ft.com/content/0d41cd08-eab3-44e0-a16e-1aa22bb6beb3
Ukrainian officials say they have been forced to ration ammunition to a few strikes a day. “We know all the co-ordinates, all the locations of Russian depots and command and control stations — [the lack of ammunition] is limiting the Ukrainian ability to truly change the situation on the ground,” said one official.  


https://mobile.twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1556687445311340545The Pentagon will allocate another $1 billion in military aid to Ukraine. This package includes additional ammunition for HIMARS, ATACMS, Javelin and 75,000 155-mm shells
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 20, 2022, 05:40:25 PM
https://theconversation.com/kharkiv-offensive-has-shown-the-west-that-ukraine-can-win-190501
Now, with the blitzkrieg liberation of most of the Kharkiv oblast, and the obviously abject and ramshackle state of the Russian armed forces made even more apparent, Ukrainian victory looks truly achievable for the first time.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 20, 2022, 11:20:49 PM
https://theconversation.com/kharkiv-offensive-has-shown-the-west-that-ukraine-can-win-190501
Now, with the blitzkrieg liberation of most of the Kharkiv oblast, and the obviously abject and ramshackle state of the Russian armed forces made even more apparent, Ukrainian victory looks truly achievable for the first time.
Eh no , A Ukraine victory looked on the cards after the Russ army failed to make any more ground in the south and east, and then the HIMARS and other weapons  arrived on the scene, after that it was just a matter of time.  But it is not just the weapons supplied, it is also how the UA have adapted into operating as a modern intelligent army, from their starting point of being a soviet based toxic army  and managing to do all that midstream amidst battle,
It's unheard of in military history for an army to complete such a pivot in the middle of a war.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 21, 2022, 08:51:04 AM
So Putin threatening nuclear action for any attacks on russian territories with russian territories including ones they claimed from Ukraine. Great.

Where does that end?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 21, 2022, 09:10:47 AM
https://theconversation.com/kharkiv-offensive-has-shown-the-west-that-ukraine-can-win-190501
Now, with the blitzkrieg liberation of most of the Kharkiv oblast, and the obviously abject and ramshackle state of the Russian armed forces made even more apparent, Ukrainian victory looks truly achievable for the first time.
Eh no , A Ukraine victory looked on the cards after the Russ army failed to make any more ground in the south and east, and then the HIMARS and other weapons  arrived on the scene, after that it was just a matter of time.  But it is not just the weapons supplied, it is also how the UA have adapted into operating as a modern intelligent army, from their starting point of being a soviet based toxic army  and managing to do all that midstream amidst battle,
It's unheard of in military history for an army to complete such a pivot in the middle of a war.
That' s bollocks.
Weapons and Grind and superior leadership but in May it was all Russia

https://warontherocks.com/2022/05/would-we-do-better-hubris-and-validation-in-ukraine/

Ukraine also appears to be ceding ground in the Donbas to a slow, grinding Russian advance.


Ukraine will not regain any territory Russians do not want it2regain. isn't in position do so militarily nor thru negotiations. simply have2accept defeat+give up east+south+accept loss source of 70-80% of former GDP All this completely foreseeable since first day war”
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2022, 10:17:54 AM
So Putin threatening nuclear action for any attacks on russian territories with russian territories including ones they claimed from Ukraine. Great.

Where does that end?

I don't know but lets enjoy this life we have at the moment as this cnut will save face doing whatever is necessary to not look like a failure!!

It's looking now to be a showdown and this hand Putin has played is going to be a pretty good bluff or an embarrassing loss... None of those calls will be good either way
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 21, 2022, 10:53:01 AM
Tbh - the best approach is not to think about it. He will keep threatening nuclear any which way. Whether he delivers on it time will tell.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 21, 2022, 11:49:17 AM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 21, 2022, 11:54:18 AM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.

Yeah. He now says we will take your country but if you try to take it back we'll nuke you. How does any Russian think that's a good idea. There is bound to be a coup at some point the way this is going - surely?
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Aaron Boone on September 21, 2022, 12:13:40 PM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.

Yeah. He now says we will take your country but if you try to take it back we'll nuke you. How does any Russian think that's a good idea. There is bound to be a coup at some point the way this is going - surely?
Russia does revolutions rather than coups. 
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2022, 12:24:19 PM
Still find it amazing that he has clearly lost the plot and yet still has the backing of so many loyal goons.

Yeah. He now says we will take your country but if you try to take it back we'll nuke you. How does any Russian think that's a good idea. There is bound to be a coup at some point the way this is going - surely?
Russia does revolutions rather than coups.

They are rather revolting.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Blowitupref on September 21, 2022, 11:58:06 PM
List is getting longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_businessmen_mystery_deaths
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 22, 2022, 12:33:49 AM
Conscription just has that effect on a populace even in Russia,
thousands have marched on the streets.

Protests in Moscow and St Petersburg today have grown pretty large. People chanting “No to War!” Dozens of arrests reported
 
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572645894968987648 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572645894968987648)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 22, 2022, 12:48:38 AM
The traffic jam at the border with Russia/Finland has pilled up to 35KM and is rising by the hour, it is the only border who is still open for Russian civilians with shengen visas, after Putin announced he will send 300.000 new troops to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194)
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 22, 2022, 12:50:03 AM
"Putin in the trenches" - chanting protesters in Moscow

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572629534289309698 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572629534289309698)

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: imtommygunn on September 22, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
There are an awful lot of russians who are going to be conscripted here without much military training etc and could see a very sorry end. While Russia are obviously the aggressors here you really wouldn't want to be a Russian citizen at all and would have to feel for some. It can't be a good place to be.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Rudi on September 22, 2022, 08:27:42 AM
The traffic jam at the border with Russia/Finland has pilled up to 35KM and is rising by the hour, it is the only border who is still open for Russian civilians with shengen visas, after Putin announced he will send 300.000 new troops to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194)

https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-queues-traffic-finland-russia-border-5872693-Sep2022/
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 22, 2022, 10:17:44 AM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on September 22, 2022, 08:48:48 PM
irsp tankie types very quiet as putin sends thousands of working class russians to their death
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: seafoid on September 22, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
The Germans lost the war in Stalingrad and they also ran out of petrol.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Sportacus on September 22, 2022, 10:54:00 PM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
I’m amazed how the Russians didn’t gain air supremacy and then they could essentially have done what they wanted.  Surely they have the aircraft numbers to squash the Ukraine airforce, but they seem more interested in blundering forward and back with their artillery. It puzzles me.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Eire90 on September 23, 2022, 11:52:41 PM
is irish government looking into taking in  russians fleeing putin mobilazation
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2022, 12:30:06 AM
is irish government looking into taking in  russians fleeing putin mobilazation

Will place them I. Same hotels as the Ukrainian refugees
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 24, 2022, 03:08:22 AM
The traffic jam at the border with Russia/Finland has pilled up to 35KM and is rising by the hour, it is the only border who is still open for Russian civilians with shengen visas, after Putin announced he will send 300.000 new troops to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572568782748680194)

https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-queues-traffic-finland-russia-border-5872693-Sep2022/
+
Fantastic work,  how about
a great season for a vacation in Mongolia? https://twitter.com/i/status/1572820087802839040 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572820087802839040)
Going either to Georgia or to Armenia?  https://twitter.com/rajdianos/status/1573090392039641088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/rajdianos/status/1573090392039641088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Here's a former Z Warrior  fleeing the scene
A massive gathering of vehicles with "Z" signs was spotted near the Russian border. But there is one nuance...
https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/1572605799343562757/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/1572605799343562757/photo/1)

In contrast, this is Kiev 2014, Ukrainian citizens on street protests overthrowing their kremlin toxified government, robot cops being battered off the streets with an intensity.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1572927865171202049 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1572927865171202049)
That's what's called true resilience to corrupt governance.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Main Street on September 24, 2022, 03:37:34 AM
Sure in WW2 they fired then into the front line with no training at all, big reason Russia lost 27million, Germany supposely lost the battle of Kursk even though the casualties rate was 6:1, and tanks lost averaged 9:1 in Germany favour. The landings at Anzio was the reason the Germans withdrew. You can't throw men running into a mg34/42 machine gun, Russia done just that. War changed alot, air power still king, but Artillery got bigger, drone strikes, anti tank weapons have make the day of the tank redundant.
I’m amazed how the Russians didn’t gain air supremacy and then they could essentially have done what they wanted.  Surely they have the aircraft numbers to squash the Ukraine airforce, but they seem more interested in blundering forward and back with their artillery. It puzzles me.

The Russian air force looks impressive, has some tasty machines,  but isn't a 'holistic' project, it's plagued by bits that don't work.
For example a  long range missile launcher won't work because the long range detector technology is defunct therefore the fighter plane has to get up close and personal to launch rocket with any degree of accuracy, risking detection and destruction.The Russ air force are extra wary of losing their precious machines, that's one explanation for their absence in battle.

The other day, the  UAF report
Ukrainian Air Force carries out 41 air raids on Russian positions in past 24 hours - General Staff . The attacks hit 21 areas of Russian troops and equipment concentration, 4 strongholds, 15 positions of anti-aircraft missile systems, as per the Staff  https://tinyurl.com/35t5sw63

How was that possible?  15 positions of anti-aircraft missile systems being hit ?
because the UKR Sukhois and MiGs are now equipped with USAF anti-radar missiles and these are lethal.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 28, 2022, 10:16:10 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966

Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RedHand88 on September 28, 2022, 10:18:13 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966

Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.

There are MEPs thanking America.
Americans had a military presence along the line in the days leading up to it.
Biden had said they would bring an end to it.

Aren't you just a teency bit curious?  ;D
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: johnnycool on September 28, 2022, 10:31:33 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966

Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.

There are MEPs thanking America.
Americans had a military presence along the line in the days leading up to it.
Biden had said they would bring an end to it.

Aren't you just a teency bit curious?  ;D

It's not beyond the Americans and it's hard to see why the Russians would have sabotaged their own pipeline...

Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: clarshack on September 28, 2022, 10:39:02 AM
BBC News - Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63057966

Tough talk from Ursula. Interesting as most of the twitter halfwits think it was the Americans who are responsible.

Maybe it's because Biden said at the start of the year that they would take it out.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: bennydorano on September 28, 2022, 10:44:58 AM
Oh I think the Americans are more than capable of carrying out such an action, it's the Russian reaction (or lack of) that makes me think the Americans didn't on this occasion tho.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: markl121 on September 28, 2022, 10:45:53 AM
is irish government looking into taking in  russians fleeing putin mobilazation

Will place them I. Same hotels as the Ukrainian refugees
Maybe they can join the Irish students in camping out in tents and in their cars
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: RedHand88 on September 28, 2022, 11:32:33 AM
Theres a motive (so Europe buys US oil)
Theres a means (self explanatory)
It's at least worth entertaining.

I get that twitter has some absolute weapons on it but occasionally they get it right (hunter biden laptop). I remember it being laughed off as ridiculous that Hunter got his laptop fixed halfway across the country, but there you go.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on September 28, 2022, 01:26:48 PM
is irish government looking into taking in  russians fleeing putin mobilazation

Will place them I. Same hotels as the Ukrainian refugees
Maybe they can join the Irish students in camping out in tents and in their cars

Perhaps they should state that they will accept Russian builders, plumbers, architects, civil engineers etc and get them to build houses.
Offer EU citizenship to anyone that builds several houses
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: J70 on September 28, 2022, 01:32:45 PM
Theres a motive (so Europe buys US oil)
Theres a means (self explanatory)
It's at least worth entertaining.

I get that twitter has some absolute weapons on it but occasionally they get it right (hunter biden laptop). I remember it being laughed off as ridiculous that Hunter got his laptop fixed halfway across the country, but there you go.

Don't recall anything like that. His roots are in Delaware and DC after all, and I'm pretty sure the family still has home(s) there.
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2022, 06:27:46 PM
It's only the first of October and there are fireworks in Crimea already
https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1576229813299605504
Title: Re: Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on October 02, 2022, 01:10:17 AM


 Putin's Speech

President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Dear citizens of Russia, citizens of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, residents of Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions, State Duma deputies and senators of the Russian Federation,

You know, referendums were held in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions. Their results have been summed up, the results are known. People made their choice, an unequivocal choice.

Today we are signing agreements on the admission of the Donetsk People's Republic, the Lugansk People's Republic, the Zaporizhzhya region and the Kherson region to Russia. I am confident that the Federal Assembly will support the constitutional laws on the adoption and formation of four new regions and four new regions of the Russian Federation in Russia, because this is the will of millions of people.

(Applause.)

And this, of course, is their right, their inalienable right, which is enshrined in the first article of the UN Charter, which explicitly states the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.

Let me repeat: this is the inalienable right of people, it is based on historical unity, in the name of which generations of our ancestors, those who created and defended Russia from the origins of Ancient Russia for centuries, won. Here, in Novorossiya, Rumyantsev, Suvorov and Ushakov fought, catherine II and Potemkin founded new cities. Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers stood here to the death during the Great Patriotic War.

We will always remember the heroes of the "Russian Spring", those who did not reconcile themselves in 2014 with the neo-Nazi coup d'état in Ukraine, all those who died for the right to speak their native language, to preserve their culture, traditions, faith, for the right to live. These are the soldiers of Donbass, the martyrs of the "Odessa Khatyn", the victims of inhuman terrorist attacks staged by the Kiev regime. These are volunteers and militiamen, civilians, children, women, old people, Russians, Ukrainians, people of various nationalities. This is the real people's leader of Donetsk Alexander Zakharchenko, these are military commanders Arsen Pavlov and Vladimir Zhoga, Olga Kochura and Alexei Mozgovoy, this is the prosecutor of the Lugansk Republic Sergey Gorenko. This is the paratrooper Nurmagomed Gadzhimagomedov and all our soldiers and officers who died the death of the brave during a special military operation. They're heroes. (Applause.) Heroes of the Great Russia. And I ask you to honor their memory with a minute of silence.

(Minute of silence.)

Thank you.

Behind the choice of millions of residents in the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics, in the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions is our common destiny and thousand-year history. People passed on this spiritual connection to their children and grandchildren. Despite all the trials, they carried through the years the love for Russia. And no one can destroy this feeling in us. That is why both older generations and young people, those who were born after the tragedy of the collapse of the Soviet Union, voted for our unity, for our common future.

In 1991, in the Belovezhskaya Pushcha, without asking the will of ordinary citizens, representatives of the party elites of that time decided to collapse the USSR, and people suddenly found themselves cut off from their homeland. This tore apart and dismembered our national community and turned into a national catastrophe. Just as once after the revolution the borders of the Union republics were cut behind the scenes, so the last leaders of the Soviet Union, contrary to the direct expression of the will of the majority of people in the referendum of 1991, destroyed our great country, put the peoples simply before the fact.

I admit that they did not even fully understand what they were doing and what consequences this would inevitably lead to in the end. But it doesn't matter. There is no Soviet Union, the past cannot be returned. And Russia does not need it today, we do not aspire to this. But there is nothing stronger than the determination of millions of people who, by their culture, faith, traditions, language, consider themselves part of Russia, whose ancestors lived for centuries in a single state. There is nothing stronger than the determination of these people to return to their true, historical Fatherland.

For eight long years, people in the Donbas were subjected to genocide, shelling and blockade, and in Kherson and Zaporozhye they tried to criminally cultivate hatred for Russia, for everything Russian. Now, already during the referendums, the Kiev regime threatened with reprisals, death to school teachers, women who worked in election commissions, intimidated with repression millions of people who came to express their will. But the unbroken people of Donbass, Zaporozhye and Kherson have spoken their word.

I want the Kiev authorities and their real masters in the West to hear me, so that everyone remembers this: people living in Lugansk and Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporozhye become our citizens forever. (Applause.)

We call on the Kiev regime to immediately cease fire, all hostilities, the war that it unleashed back in 2014, and return to the negotiating table. We are ready for this, it has been said more than once. But the choice of the people in Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye and Kherson will not be discussed, it has been made, Russia will not betray it. (Applause.) And today's Kiev authorities should treat this free expression of the will of people with respect, and nothing else. This is the only way to peace.

We will defend our land with all the forces and means at our disposal and will do everything to ensure the safe life of our people. This is the great liberating mission of our people.

We will definitely rebuild the destroyed cities and towns, housing, schools, hospitals, theatres and museums, restore and develop industrial enterprises, factories, infrastructure, social, pension, healthcare and education systems.

Of course, we will work to improve the level of security. Together we will make sure that citizens in the new regions feel the support of the entire people of Russia, the whole country, all the republics, all the territories and regions of our vast Motherland. (Applause.)

Dear friends and colleagues!

Today I would like to appeal to the soldiers and officers who are participating in the special military operation, to the soldiers of Donbass and Novorossiya, to those who, after the decree on partial mobilization, join the ranks of the Armed Forces, fulfilling their patriotic duty, who themselves come to the military recruitment offices at the call of their hearts. I would like to appeal to their parents, wives and children about what our people are fighting for, what enemy is confronting us, who is throwing the world into new wars and crises, deriving their bloody benefits from this tragedy.

Our compatriots, our brothers and sisters in Ukraine – the native part of our united people – saw with their own eyes what the ruling circles of the so-called West are preparing for all of humanity. Here, in fact, they just threw off their masks, showed their true plans.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the West decided that the world, all of us, would forever have to put up with its dictates. Then, in 1991, the West hoped that Russia would not recover from such upheavals and would continue to fall apart on its own. Yes, it almost happened – we remember the 90s, the terrible 90s, hungry, cold and hopeless. But Russia has resisted, revived, strengthened, and regained its rightful place in the world.

At the same time, the West has been looking for and continues to look for a new chance to hit us, to weaken and destroy Russia, which has always been dreamed of, to fragment our state, to pit peoples against each other, to condemn them to poverty and extinction. It simply haunts them that there is such a great, huge country in the world with its territory, natural resources, resources, with a people who cannot and will never live by someone else's orders.

The West is ready to step over everything to preserve the neocolonial system that allows it to parasitize, in fact, plunder the world at the expense of the power of the dollar and technological dictates, collect real tribute from humanity, extract the main source of unearned well-being, the rent of the hegemon. The preservation of this rent is their key, genuine and absolutely self-serving motive. That is why it is in their interest to completely de-sovereignize us. Hence their aggression against independent states, traditional values and original cultures, attempts to undermine international and integration processes beyond their control, new world currencies and centers of technological development. It is critical for them that all countries surrender their sovereignty to the United States.

The ruling elites of some states voluntarily agree to do this, voluntarily agree to become vassals; others are bribed, intimidated. And if it does not work out, they destroy entire states, leaving behind humanitarian disasters, disasters, ruins, millions of ruined, distorted human destinies, terrorist enclaves, social disaster zones, protectorates, colonies and semi-colonies. They don't care, just to get their own benefit.

I want to stress once again that it is precisely in greed, in the intention to preserve its unrestricted power, that the real reasons for the hybrid war that the "collective West" is waging against Russia. They don't want freedom for us, they want us to be a colony. They do not want equal cooperation, but robbery. They want to see us not as a free society, but as a crowd of soulless slaves.

For them, the direct threat is our thought and philosophy, and therefore they encroach on our philosophers. Our culture and art are a danger to them, so they try to ban them. Our development and prosperity are also a threat to them – competition is growing. They don't need Russia at all, we need it. (Applause.)

I want to remind you that the claims to world domination in the past have been repeatedly broken by the courage and resilience of our people. Russia will always be Russia. We will still defend our values and our Motherland.

The West is counting on impunity, on the fact that it will get away with everything. As a matter of fact, they've gotten away with it so far. Agreements in the field of strategic security fly into the trash; agreements reached at the highest political level are declared fables; firm promises not to expand NATO eastward as soon as they were bought into by our former leaders turned into a dirty deception; treaties on missile defence and intermediate-range and shorter-range missiles have been unilaterally torn up under far-fetched pretexts.

All we hear from all sides is that the West is upholding a rules-based order. Where did they come from? Who has ever seen these rules? Who agreed? Listen, this is just nonsense, a complete deception, double or already triple standards! Fools are designed simply.

Russia is a great thousand-year-old power, a civilizational country, and it will not live by such manipulated, false rules. (Applause.)

It was the so-called West that trampled on the principle of the inviolability of borders, and now at its own discretion decides who has the right to self-determination and who does not, who is unworthy of it. Why they decide so, who gave them such a right is unclear. To themselves.

That is why they are wildly angry about the choice of people in Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye and Kherson. This West has no moral right to evaluate him, not even to stutter about the freedom of democracy. No and never has been!

Western elites deny not only national sovereignty and international law. Their hegemony has a pronounced character of totalitarianism, despotism and apartheid. They brazenly divide the world into their vassals, into the so-called civilized countries and into all the others who, according to the plan of today's Western racists, should replenish the list of barbarians and savages. False labels – "rogue country", "authoritarian regime" – are already ready, they stigmatize entire peoples and states, and this is nothing new. There is nothing new in this: the Western elites as they were, remained so – colonialist. They discriminate, divide peoples into first and other varieties.

We have never accepted and will never accept such political nationalism and racism. And what, if not racism, is Russophobia, which is now spreading around the world? What, if not racism, is the categorical conviction of the West that its civilization, neoliberal culture is an indisputable model for the whole world? "Whoever is not with us is against us.