Dublin V Mayo, Saturday 29th March2014. Croke Park 7.00 pm.

[highorlow]

He has done superbly over the last 3 years. But Mayo want to win Sam and ultimately that is the standard required. The problems that need to be addressed to get us over the line are not limited to the players.

Muppet, that's a fairly sweeping statement.

I was as angry as anyone with the management after the game but on mature reflection I think JH was actually brave with the tactics on Saturday.

The high ball into the FF line worked against Cork but failed against the Dubs. This was the correct time and place to try this direct style. We need to get it working or we will never get across the line. The reason for this is our starting 15 run out of steam with our other tactic which is the blitz running, this turns into a 'rope a dope' scenario where it will only work if we are about 10 points clear against the likes of Dublin. It works grand against other opposition as they also run out of steam.

I'm convinced with Barry Moran in at FF we will be a different side and he will allow the high ball to work and thus allow our half backs and midfield to conserve energy for the last 10 minutes.

Another of the other lessons from Saturday is that we (and every other team) need to stick on a 'niggley' (Kildare term) player in the last 10 minutes to stick like shit to a blanket to MDMC. He was the reason that Dublin got the draw. He created one goal and may have created another (only saw the game once). He has unique stamina and I'd fear for the Dubs if he gets injured this year.


Fair play to JH, he tried a different tactic via a more direct style for the 1st 20mins and it's not his fault the players couldn't execute it this time. Next weeks selection should be interesting.

I'd also like to have seen some other subs coming in other than the usual lads who rarely have an impact.

[Syferus]

He has done superbly over the last 3 years. But Mayo want to win Sam and ultimately that is the standard required. The problems that need to be addressed to get us over the line are not limited to the players.

Muppet, that's a fairly sweeping statement.

I was as angry as anyone with the management after the game but on mature reflection I think JH was actually brave with the tactics on Saturday.

The high ball into the FF line worked against Cork but failed against the Dubs. This was the correct time and place to try this direct style. We need to get it working or we will never get across the line. The reason for this is our starting 15 run out of steam with our other tactic which is the blitz running, this turns into a 'rope a dope' scenario where it will only work if we are about 10 points clear against the likes of Dublin. It works grand against other opposition as they also run out of steam.

I'm convinced with Barry Moran in at FF we will be a different side and he will allow the high ball to work and thus allow our half backs and midfield to conserve energy for the last 10 minutes.

Another of the other lessons from Saturday is that we (and every other team) need to stick on a 'niggley' (Kildare term) player in the last 10 minutes to stick like shit to a blanket to MDMC. He was the reason that Dublin got the draw. He created one goal and may have created another (only saw the game once). He has unique stamina and I'd fear for the Dubs if he gets injured this year.


Fair play to JH, he tried a different tactic via a more direct style for the 1st 20mins and it's not his fault the players couldn't execute it this time. Next weeks selection should be interesting.

I'd also like to have seen some other subs coming in other than the usual lads who rarely have an impact.

Anyone that's still trying to get Freeman out of the side has some serious blinders on them.

Moran is a midfielder and a lot of teams would love to see ye playing one of your best midfielder as a ball batter around the square. If the game was that easy Cork would have won a dozen All-Irelands with Nic Murphy around the square.

[highorlow]

Anyone that's still trying to get Freeman out of the side has some serious blinders on them.

Who said that?

You must have missed the club championship and in particular the game against Crokes.

[easytiger95]

Posted by: moysider
« on: March 30, 2014, 10:22:02 PM » Insert Quote
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 30, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
I hope you're right joemamas, but we're constantly hearing the same stuff from supporters, hoping they'll learn and it'll right itself later in the year. I have to say that I agree with Indiana. Horan has got us to where no other manager has, but since last September, I don't know if he's the man to lead us to the promised land.

But I'm not looking forward to the day that he goes either. Anyway, I did say Dublin's forwards looked scary...and when Bernard Brogan comes back, God help the rest of the country.

Don t forget last year Kerry had a chance to take the lead with a minute to go in the semi. We blew the final.
Dublin have got so much going for them though that it is a bad time for us to be challenging for an AI but I suppose there ll always be a Dublin or a Kerry waiting to give us a slap in a final.

The Croke Park factor is huge for them. They play all big games there and it brings out the best in them in big championship games. Croke Park seems to be an issue for us now in finals.
Dublin should win Leinster again without much fuss and can arrive fresh and peaking at the right time. They re in a great position to win again but they can be beaten by 2/3 teams.

Moysider, interested to read your comments. I know we've won two All Ireland in 3 years, but people seem to forget that for 16 years Croke Park was a huge burden to us, a place where we were so often exposed. Along with players, development etc (all important of course) one of the biggest shifts for Dublin was in  their mental attitude - a majority of the 2011 panel had been taking semi final and quarter final beatings (some even Leinster semi final beatings!!) for the entire noughties. Gilroy and Gavin changed the mental attitude of the squad and you can see the results.

Point being, you can bemoan the quality of player upfront for Mayo all you want - BUT - mental attitudes can be changed and adjusted. The bernard Brogan of 2010/2011/2013 is a different creature from the Berno of 2007. You guys need to work with what you have - you are 90% there - the few inches between the ears is the last step to take.

[aontroim abu]

Question, I thought MDMA looked like he has been enjoying  a few too many steak dinners, maybe carrying a bit more timber than last year, anyone else think this? He looked very slow and ponderous

[Crete Boom]

Posted by: moysider
« on: March 30, 2014, 10:22:02 PM » Insert Quote
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 30, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
I hope you're right joemamas, but we're constantly hearing the same stuff from supporters, hoping they'll learn and it'll right itself later in the year. I have to say that I agree with Indiana. Horan has got us to where no other manager has, but since last September, I don't know if he's the man to lead us to the promised land.

But I'm not looking forward to the day that he goes either. Anyway, I did say Dublin's forwards looked scary...and when Bernard Brogan comes back, God help the rest of the country.

Don t forget last year Kerry had a chance to take the lead with a minute to go in the semi. We blew the final.
Dublin have got so much going for them though that it is a bad time for us to be challenging for an AI but I suppose there ll always be a Dublin or a Kerry waiting to give us a slap in a final.

The Croke Park factor is huge for them. They play all big games there and it brings out the best in them in big championship games. Croke Park seems to be an issue for us now in finals.
Dublin should win Leinster again without much fuss and can arrive fresh and peaking at the right time. They re in a great position to win again but they can be beaten by 2/3 teams.

Moysider, interested to read your comments. I know we've won two All Ireland in 3 years, but people seem to forget that for 16 years Croke Park was a huge burden to us, a place where we were so often exposed. Along with players, development etc (all important of course) one of the biggest shifts for Dublin was in  their mental attitude - a majority of the 2011 panel had been taking semi final and quarter final beatings (some even Leinster semi final beatings!!) for the entire noughties. Gilroy and Gavin changed the mental attitude of the squad and you can see the results.

Point being, you can bemoan the quality of player upfront for Mayo all you want - BUT - mental attitudes can be changed and adjusted. The bernard Brogan of 2010/2011/2013 is a different creature from the Berno of 2007. You guys need to work with what you have - you are 90% there - the few inches between the ears is the last step to take.

Jaysus that kind of clinical level headed analysis is almost bodering in being blasphemous to true manly morals of the GAA Easytiger . Not a word of a marquee forward anywhere in those paragraphs!! Pateen will out to get you for sure!

Seriously though it's obvious that this current Mayo team suffers badly from a severe lack of compsure down the stretch and in front of goal when the pressure comes on. Also consistency of performance from our front men is another problem (again composure under pressure leads to this) as well I think as on our day we could take out any of the big teams but you need 2 ( and probably three) big performances to land Sam and we haven't been able to do that yet. Mine and most Mayo fans worry is Horan has tried (through tactics and personnel switches) to cure this and while he has maybe reduced the amount of times this happens he still hasn't solved it which leaves us with more heartbreak headding our way!! Still though I will enjoy the journey and this team at least gives us the hope that they will overcome their demons or die with their boots on trying!

[easytiger95]

i always think back to 95 and the heartbreak that team went through - probably as bad a run as any county team ever had - 91, 92, 93, 94 - it nearly killed them but they got there in the end. It took real mental strength to do it. That is not something Dublin have a monopoly on - and if you think back to 2006 against Mayo it was the one thing we were accused of lacking. It can come good for Mayo ( I just hope it doesn't happen against the Dubs! ;D0

[Syferus]

Anyone that's still trying to get Freeman out of the side has some serious blinders on them.

Who said that?

You must have missed the club championship and in particular the game against Crokes.

Saw pretty much all of Castlebar's games since the Mayo county final. Moran worked well at FF in the Crokes game but he was anonymous in the Vincent's game and would have been much more useful to his team out around the middle.

If you're starting Moran at FF you're either subbing out or moving Freeman. I would love to see that happening if we were to meet in June.

[muppet]

There was no problem with Cillian O'Connor's composure in front of the posts down the stretch. 2 points from 2 shots. However it is hard to score when you play keep ball across the half-back line for 2 minutes. As any niywit knows, a turnover there, when your defenders are trying to get free to keep the ball, freqently ends up with a green flag.

[An Gaeilgoir]

Question, I thought MDMA looked like he has been enjoying  a few too many steak dinners, maybe carrying a bit more timber than last year, anyone else think this? He looked very slow and ponderous

In my opinion it was Mc Caffrey who won that game for the Dubs, brought a different intensity to it, as for us, lessons, it seems are not being learned, summed up  by bringing a man on, who has being tried before and hasn't cut the mustard, can't train with the team as he is abroad through work and when it is back to the wall stuff on he comes, why in the name of Christ, can we not close out a game? Also, What in the name of f%*k must our minors, who were looking on on Saturday night be thinking about getting a run in this team. Give the youth a chance, we have some deadwood on that team, both playing and in the subs. Look at Clare in the AI last year, given the chance, youth can flourish....and yes i am still raging with that performance on Saturday night.

[Zulu]

Posted by: moysider
« on: March 30, 2014, 10:22:02 PM » Insert Quote
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 30, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
I hope you're right joemamas, but we're constantly hearing the same stuff from supporters, hoping they'll learn and it'll right itself later in the year. I have to say that I agree with Indiana. Horan has got us to where no other manager has, but since last September, I don't know if he's the man to lead us to the promised land.

But I'm not looking forward to the day that he goes either. Anyway, I did say Dublin's forwards looked scary...and when Bernard Brogan comes back, God help the rest of the country.

Don t forget last year Kerry had a chance to take the lead with a minute to go in the semi. We blew the final.
Dublin have got so much going for them though that it is a bad time for us to be challenging for an AI but I suppose there ll always be a Dublin or a Kerry waiting to give us a slap in a final.

The Croke Park factor is huge for them. They play all big games there and it brings out the best in them in big championship games. Croke Park seems to be an issue for us now in finals.
Dublin should win Leinster again without much fuss and can arrive fresh and peaking at the right time. They re in a great position to win again but they can be beaten by 2/3 teams.

Moysider, interested to read your comments. I know we've won two All Ireland in 3 years, but people seem to forget that for 16 years Croke Park was a huge burden to us, a place where we were so often exposed. Along with players, development etc (all important of course) one of the biggest shifts for Dublin was in  their mental attitude - a majority of the 2011 panel had been taking semi final and quarter final beatings (some even Leinster semi final beatings!!) for the entire noughties. Gilroy and Gavin changed the mental attitude of the squad and you can see the results.

Point being, you can bemoan the quality of player upfront for Mayo all you want - BUT - mental attitudes can be changed and adjusted. The bernard Brogan of 2010/2011/2013 is a different creature from the Berno of 2007. You guys need to work with what you have - you are 90% there - the few inches between the ears is the last step to take.

I disagree, while psychology is of course a very important component of every team I don't think it is an issue for this Mayo squad and it wasn't a real issue for Dublin pre-Gilroy. Of course players will reference it when they lose as they aren't going to say (or want to think) they simply aren't good enough so the search for other excuses. The Dublin team that suffered serious hammerings against Kerry and Tyrone were a long way shy of the current Dublin team. They lacked the quality to beat the very best and Mayo probably do to, though they are better than that Dublin team.

On the criticism of O'Se, well I'd strongly disagree with that and I thought he played very well on Saturday. I'm a broken record on this point but I think Mayo 1-9 can go toe to toe with anyone but 10-15 are not as good as a few of the 10-15's in the teams they'll need to beat to win Sam. Mayo will, IMO, need to come up with a tactic to address this or hope the forwards can find a rich vein of form at the business end of the championship.

[IolarCoisCuain]

It's March. The result of this game won't matter a damn once the Championship starts. Eugene McGee wrote in today's Indo that Mayo are psychologically damaged because they didn't beat Dublin on Saturday. If Mayo did win and were playing Dublin again in the Championship, do you think Eugene would say this win on Saturday would be the difference between the teams? Not at all.

Mayo went to sleep because, with Cluxton gone, they thought Dublin's chance was gone with him. Mayo got caught napping, fair enough. But it's not like Mayo don't live to fight another day. It's not like there's any county in the country who fancy playing Mayo in the summer if they can help it. I'd be happy enough to include Dublin in that too.

Right now Mayo can go toe-to-toe with the best teams in the country - what more do people want? What more can people ask for? Things aren't so bad really, you know.

[easytiger95]

Zulu, a lot of the team in 2011 were part of the failed Pillar years - and most of them were there in 2009 disguised as startled earwigs. Gilroy changed his own approach big style in 2010. I remember that year Berno being interviewed about the difference and he said gilroy was a lot clearer about what he wanted and everyone knew their role - the implication was that Gilroy was no longer putting up with a lot of things that were a holdover from the previous management (not that I'm slagging Caffrey, he was unfortunate in a lot of ways).

I think for players like Berno, Alan Brogan, Denis Bastick, Barry Cahill, Brian Cullen, Ger Brennan, Diarmuid Connolly, who had all played before he came in, he made a huge difference. Even if you look at players that he essentially replaced, you couldn't really argue that Mick Fitz was a better corner back than Paul Griffin - but under the new system he prospered. Ditto for Whelo and Shane Ryan - we thought they were huge losses at the time, but we managed without them.

Pyschology is a huge part of management - I think Gilroy, with the help of Mickey Whelan, was able to improve the performance of a number of players and that made a big difference in our breakthrough.

[Zulu]

I'm not saying it doesn't easytiger95, there are a number of components which feed into a teams performance but neither Tyrone or Kerry were as strong in 2011 as they were in the mid 2000's and Bernard Brogan, Connolly and Brennan were getting better each year. Gilroy also set Dublin up a lot better than Caffrey which helped and Gavin now has serious talent at his disposal. All I'm saying is fewer of the Dublin players would have made the Kerry or Tyrone teams pre-2010 than post 2010, now others look at Dublin and ask how many of our lads would make their team?

I just don't think Mayo have genuine psychological issues with Croke Park, no more than Dublin did. Lads ask why certain players can't perform on the big days but most of the time it's the same reason good club players can't perform at IC level, they just don't have it.

I hope I'm wrong and Mayo can win it all but I fear they'll lose out against the very best again.

[squire_in_navy_slacks]

It's March. The result of this game won't matter a damn once the Championship starts. Eugene McGee wrote in today's Indo that Mayo are psychologically damaged because they didn't beat Dublin on Saturday. If Mayo did win and were playing Dublin again in the Championship, do you think Eugene would say this win on Saturday would be the difference between the teams? Not at all.

Mayo went to sleep because, with Cluxton gone, they thought Dublin's chance was gone with him. Mayo got caught napping, fair enough. But it's not like Mayo don't live to fight another day. It's not like there's any county in the country who fancy playing Mayo in the summer if they can help it. I'd be happy enough to include Dublin in that too.

Right now Mayo can go toe-to-toe with the best teams in the country - what more do people want? What more can people ask for? Things aren't so bad really, you know.

Rubbish ..........Mayo had Dublin bet even with Cluxton on the field (I really didnt know he was scoring goals these days) and they had a great chance to murder them and rack up a 10 + score win