Antrim Hurling

[All seeing I]

True - Aaron's shot was an important junction in the game. If there's one player you'd want for reliabillity its Aaron. Never lets you down. I'm sure he's well forgiven!

Genuine question re shots on goal - did Limerick have any??

[btdtgtt]

Great to see a variety of opinions on here and being done in a respectful manner. Feeling positive about the season. Limerick are one of the best teams in Ireland and we matched them right up to the 45th minute.

Agreed - and some positivity too!!
Some facts to keep in mind before waffling about the calibre of our players.
Limerick : 2013 Munster champions. All Ireland Semi Finalists - beaten by AI Champions Clare by 7 points.
Limerick : 2014 Munster finalists. All Ireland Semi Finalists - beaten by AI Champions Kilkenny by two points.

I prefer to call this devil's advocate rather than being negative - postivity for the sake of it is basically propaganda.
The fact is that playing Limerick in Ballycastle in February is just not comparable to Thurles in July. That's the same for all counties. The old league is league and championship is championship.
Much less the issue that we were still beaten off the park in the last quarter of the game.
Particularly when many of their top players are absent while preparing for Ballyhale.

Thats said - wins against Laois & Offaly should regain our Division 2 status - and we should accpt we've quite simply got no place in Division 1. I'm fine with that - not a criticism. Division 2 survival and a few wins is not a negative for me at all.
In terms of championship when the the real judgement comes - I would love to see us pick up a scalp there rather than the annual procession of results against the same teams.

Propaganda is info of a biased or misleading nature being used to promote a cause. I gave you facts about Limerick and to be honest, i really wouldnt be too fussed about promoting the Limerick cause.
Those facts show just where Limerick hurling is at present.
I have used these facts to maybe shed some light on how Antrim are fairing in Division 1B. A one point loss in Wexford Park and toe to toe with Limerick for 60 mins.
What has Thurles in July got to do with this arguement? Both teams had to play in Ballycastle yesterday! And given this new brand of Antrim hurler, Antrim were probably at a greater disadvantage than Limerick yesterday! That's a very old arguement. About as old as league is league and championship is championship. Do you think Antrim will still only be a league side come championship this year?
"Many of their top players were missing" - How many were they missing from Kilmallock?

Limerick only pulled away when Antrim lost their midfield pairing who, to that point, were dominating their opposite numbers. Add that to the fact that at least two Antrim sure starters were on the line yesterday with injuries. Two men who would make a massive difference. When it came to the crunch - both panels were SLIGHTLY depleted yesterday.

I've got a bit carried away on this one, apologies. We've become too accustomed to progressive debates of late. I just wouldnt want to slip back into the dark ways - like the southern managers and their "keep up the good work up there" sh!te.

You're 100% right though about the championship. That is where we all want to see the big win!! I hope we do get one. But for now - if we win our last three games we'll definitely make the league knock out stages and not just be seen as survivalists!
Wouldn't that be a great basis to launch your championship campaign??

I don't know what you're getting worked up about here - you seem to be all hot and bothered because after 2 losses in 2 I am not getting out the saffron pon pons and air horn?
Anyone can take any results and read different things into them - is there cause for optimism - yes of course. Is there also cause for caution - yes of course.
I've seen many false dawns - and this doesn't even qualify as one yet since we haven't won a game yet.
Hell - your last point is even the same as mine!
Although the one about Southern Managers is just random.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

True - Aaron's shot was an important junction in the game. If there's one player you'd want for reliabillity its Aaron. Never lets you down. I'm sure he's well forgiven!

Genuine question re shots on goal - did Limerick have any??

Cant disagree there, Aarons one of the best defenders in Antrim. its a pity it wasnt shorty running through for the pass lol

They did drop a lot of ball in on top of chrissy but other than that nothing of note. Dowling did have a 21 yrd free which he blazed over the bar but other than that nothing

[Sham Man]

Agreed DR they did seem to go up a gear when we got the goal
Tiredness did play a part in Limerick enjoying more space to take scores and maybe fatuige played its part on the sloppy fowling last  third
Add up our wides and shorts balls In the first half, the frees conceded in the second half and the loss of one of our most effective players
Limerick tanked us last year and got out with an 8 point win this year

I know no one likes to hear the progress word but they do seem to be running good teams closer
Maybe the conditions evened things up its hard to say
I stylish hard to mark ball wining forward woukd be some addition like what danny Sutcliffe is doing for Dublin

Wasn't at the game, long story, but I think my earlier point has been proven.  We are still only competing, possibly a little better this year than last due to fitness and conditioning, but we still lag behind.  We continue to lose mental focus, we tire and fatigue where other teams can step up another gear and rip out our jugular.  We just don't appear to have the killer instinct or desire to push on and finish a team off.  A little more worrying,even Ryan is saying "moral victories are not enough, we need points".  My greatest concern is the lads just dont seem to have the mental fabric to step up to the next level?  Along with a fitness and conditioning guru, maybe we need to consider a  mind guru?  Just mindful of the old adage "winning becomes a habit and breeds winning"  Can the same not be said that "losing breeds losing"?    Our mindset has been conditioned to the annual negative impact of persistent defeats, hammering's, annihilations and our laboured and minimal progress.  Seems we are destined to the lower grade for some time to come, unless we knock the defeatist mentality into touch??   Basically, to win we must know how to win?   

On the back of quite a lot of devastating defeats over the years the psychology of winning also needs addressing. 

[All seeing I]

That's what i asked DR about and i'm conscious that we need to redress the mentality not just for the here and now - but for the u12s, 14s etc coming through.
You're right about the whole mentality thing.
The one thing that would give you a bit of heart Sham is that KR has addressed the physical and conditioning side of things - since that we are much more competitve. We are living with the big teams now.
If this is a work in progress then no doubt his next step will be to start working on the psychological side of things.
I'd be very excited about this era - i think there is a lot more to come.

[north_antrim_hound]

That's what i asked DR about and i'm conscious that we need to redress the mentality not just for the here and now - but for the u12s, 14s etc coming through.
You're right about the whole mentality thing.
The one thing that would give you a bit of heart Sham is that KR has addressed the physical and conditioning side of things - since that we are much more competitve. We are living with the big teams now.
If this is a work in progress then no doubt his next step will be to start working on the psychological side of things.
I'd be very excited about this era - i think there is a lot more to come.

Waterford away will let us know where we stand
They racked up some score against loais although loais had a man sent off
Again a single digit defeat would be considered a decent result
A tanking would negate any feel good factor a acquired so far

[All seeing I]

It'll be a good test alright. I'm hoping we get plenty of heart with the two home games!!

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

Waterford away will be tougher than anything we have had this year. They destroyed Laois on sat night. They scored at ease against them.

As NAH says a single digit defeat would be a good result at this stage. If we can get away from the tankings against the top teams it will help us close the gap a lot quicker.

When players confidences take a battering it can work it way though a whole team.

[Sham Man]

Waterford away will be tougher than anything we have had this year. They destroyed Laois on sat night. They scored at ease against them.

As NAH says a single digit defeat would be a good result at this stage. If we can get away from the tankings against the top teams it will help us close the gap a lot quicker.

When players confidences take a battering it can work it way though a whole team.

The relentless hammering's we have taken over the years, I would suggest have done considerable damage, not just to the players, but supporters, back room staff and county administrators as well.  All in all, nobody really expects us to win, we merely fulfil the fixture and make up the numbers.  GAA HQ and national/local media all so discard us.    Should such hammerings not effect the confidence levels of each and every player on a team and subs, I would question should they be there in the first place???  Heavy defeats in some respects would be a motivator to some, but others just cannot pick themselves up, dust themselves down and aspire or endeavour to improve. Persistent defeats are sure to have a demoralising impact, thats fact! 

But it is what we have all come to expect over the years.  Despite all the talk about coaching, underage structures, physicality, speed, tackling, conditioning, use of space,  out the 70 minutes, we have not even begun to address the psychology deficit? 

I have been admonished for my radical and open views many times by siblings, club mates and friends, but I would love to see Antrim compete, beat and live with the big boys, that goes for football as well.    Remember, this has been happening for decades, not just this past few years under Ryan. Certainly the lads have improved, recent results/performances bear testament to that.    Just mindful of psychological impact the perennial defeats decade upon decade have had? 

[Last Man]

That's what i asked DR about and i'm conscious that we need to redress the mentality not just for the here and now - but for the u12s, 14s etc coming through.
You're right about the whole mentality thing.
The one thing that would give you a bit of heart Sham is that KR has addressed the physical and conditioning side of things - since that we are much more competitve. We are living with the big teams now.
If this is a work in progress then no doubt his next step will be to start working on the psychological side of things.
I'd be very excited about this era - i think there is a lot more to come.

I'm pretty sure i've heard KR talk about the mental side of the game, coping with pressure and mistakes etc but it takes the players to be reflective and open to the concept of making changes within themselves. Rare enough breed from what I've seen

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

Waterford away will be tougher than anything we have had this year. They destroyed Laois on sat night. They scored at ease against them.

As NAH says a single digit defeat would be a good result at this stage. If we can get away from the tankings against the top teams it will help us close the gap a lot quicker.

When players confidences take a battering it can work it way though a whole team.

The relentless hammering's we have taken over the years, I would suggest have done considerable damage, not just to the players, but supporters, back room staff and county administrators as well.  All in all, nobody really expects us to win, we merely fulfil the fixture and make up the numbers.  GAA HQ and national/local media all so discard us.    Should such hammerings not effect the confidence levels of each and every player on a team and subs, I would question should they be there in the first place???  Heavy defeats in some respects would be a motivator to some, but others just cannot pick themselves up, dust themselves down and aspire or endeavour to improve. Persistent defeats are sure to have a demoralising impact, thats fact! 

But it is what we have all come to expect over the years.  Despite all the talk about coaching, underage structures, physicality, speed, tackling, conditioning, use of space,  out the 70 minutes, we have not even begun to address the psychology deficit? 

I have been admonished for my radical and open views many times by siblings, club mates and friends, but I would love to see Antrim compete, beat and live with the big boys, that goes for football as well.    Remember, this has been happening for decades, not just this past few years under Ryan. Certainly the lads have improved, recent results/performances bear testament to that.    Just mindful of psychological impact the perennial defeats decade upon decade have had? 

Ive been lucky like others here to see antrim compete at the highest level in the all ireland. Way back to 87 against KK in dundalk (granted i was very wee then! lol) but i was there in 89 v Offaly and Tipp, 90 v Cork, 91 agianst KK etc etc. We had the same teams then as we do now in fact we have more kids now playing hurling now that we did back then.

Then came the hammerings in 93 & 94 against KK and Limerick where shipped 6-41 and scored 1-20 in the 2 games. People in the game started to moan about a one side semi final for one team. Down won it in 95 and in 96 we had a decent game v Limerick and lost by 8/9 points. Down then won in 97 and got beat heavy by Tipp in the first ever quarter finals.

Since then we havent come close.

We just didnt get 'crap' over night at county level. This was a stage where my own club and the Dall were at their peaks had some outstanding players who would walk onto most teams. There was ample players to pick from.

The support for the county had declined big time for hurling and football and club players sick of hammering at minor and U21 all decided not to keep it on at county level.

It also doesnt help when the Ulster council has zero interest in hurling whatsoever. They pay it lip service, nothing more. Its football in Ulster and thats it. who cares about hurling when we have this great championship with good teams who bring great gates, tv money, sponsorship!

I admire KR for what hes done this past 2 years. He said he would get antrim in an all ireland final and he did. we ddnt win it but christ it was serious progress. It gave belief back to players again. Years gone by we would have ended up losing to Limerick by 20 odd points or wexford by 20 as well. Now were putting it up to them.

The players deserve a lot of credit for the training they have put in over the winter. sure we wont win jack sh1t this season but we might just progress a bit farther than last season. If we do thats major progress.

[NAG1]

DR

Was there not a period a while back where Dinny Cahill has the County team more than competitive?

I admire KR for what hes done this past 2 years. He said he would get antrim in an all ireland final and he did ?

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

we did for while against wexford in the quarters where we were robbed and tipp where we put up a decent challenge but rhen followed the 05 embarrassment when he said brian corcoran was over the hill and we got dumped on. Following year Limerick & Galway dusted us by a cricket score in the qualifiers and we were back to square 1 again

Following year we were Christy Ring.

Wexford and Tipp were high points but we went badly down hill after that. We did have this great white hope of a minor team that ran limerick and Galway close but thats all it was. Since then its been hammering after hammering.

I admire KR for what hes done this past 2 years. He said he would get antrim in an all ireland final and he did ? All Ireland U21 final slip your mind??

[NAG1]

we did for while against wexford in the quarters where we were robbed and tipp where we put up a decent challenge but rhen followed the 05 embarrassment when he said brian corcoran was over the hill and we got dumped on. Following year Limerick & Galway dusted us by a cricket score in the qualifiers and we were back to square 1 again

Following year we were Christy Ring.

Wexford and Tipp were high points but we went badly down hill after that. We did have this great white hope of a minor team that ran limerick and Galway close but thats all it was. Since then its been hammering after hammering.

I admire KR for what hes done this past 2 years. He said he would get antrim in an all ireland final and he did ? All Ireland U21 final slip your mind??

No hadn't but in my mind there is only one All Ireland final 

[Sham Man]

we did for while against wexford in the quarters where we were robbed and tipp where we put up a decent challenge but rhen followed the 05 embarrassment when he said brian corcoran was over the hill and we got dumped on. Following year Limerick & Galway dusted us by a cricket score in the qualifiers and we were back to square 1 again

Following year we were Christy Ring.

Wexford and Tipp were high points but we went badly down hill after that. We did have this great white hope of a minor team that ran limerick and Galway close but thats all it was. Since then its been hammering after hammering.

I admire KR for what hes done this past 2 years. He said he would get antrim in an all ireland final and he did ? All Ireland U21 final slip your mind??

Just cant argue with that DR.   Dont get me wrong, I am not knocking KR for one moment, progress has been made alright and we dont have a full deck to choose from. 

Conscious though, the U21's did indeed reach the All Ireland final and thats not to be sniffed at, but again came out the wrong side of a devastating thumping by Clare.  Just mindful of the impact on young lads at minor, U21 and Senior and how demoralising these defeats can have upon ones confidence? Onwards and upwards, as they say. 

I am still of the opinion all the same, our hurling development interests are best served by Managers/Coaches/Gurus outside of the county.  Dinny and KR are proof of that.