Down Club Hurling & Football

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Barry Travers was never with Down and Jerome played seconds against Castlewellan. Did Darragh not get  McKenna cup game? Even if he didnt how is he not in top 13?

Yes Jerome mite have played 2nds. No darragh didn't play any county senior football,so y should he be in the top 13?  Cant put them all in it!

[Town Gael]

Clubs should do the Top 13 right by putting their best players in it. Kilcoo seniors played Castlewellan on a Friday night and the seconds 2 days later. They played 11 men who played in the senior team in the seconds game. They are not the only club who do it but until clubs do the thing right there is no point talking about having seconds teams in any restructured division 4 which is why i made the point in the first place.

[DownFanatic]

It is a bit simplistic to state that the top club's second teams would be flying at Division 2 and 3 level in the Down leagues.

Remember that if they were incorporated into the all county structure then their games would be the same time as their senior teams. Hypothetically speaking, the senior panel would probably be looking to take 22/23 players at the very least to each game.

This would have a serious knock on effect to the quality of a seconds team that would be taking to the field that night too.

I've no doubt that if the fixtures were on separate nights then the likes of Burren, Kilcoo and Castlewellan 2nds would be handy enough Division 2 teams.

However, with games on the same nights I'd say that these seconds teams wouldn't be much better than a top Division 3 team.

Look at Crossmaglen 2nds for example. They are one of the best club teams in Ireland but their seconds team generally operates in the middle echelons of Junior football in Armagh. Again, they play at the same time as their seniors and thus this weakens their hand.

[east down gael]

Nail on head there DF.

[qubdub]

Surely any 2nd teams playing in 3rd division would be classed as a separate 'club' and therefore have to submit a different list of players? Did 2nds teams not compete in the junior championship about 20 years ago? in Armagh there are about 5 or 6 2nd teams in the all county league/junior championship. Maybe something worth looking at in Down.

[Town Gael]

They did until about 15 years ago. They had to set up the Premier Reserve championship as seconds teams were winning the Junior championship which was seen as unfair to the smaller clubs.
I see your point Downfanatic but in any new structure involving seconds teams lower league games woukd have to be on a different day. All senior games used to be on a Sunday until the 90s

[thewobbler]

I don't understand the concept behind merging 2nds teams with the main leagues.

Fundamentally it needs restrictions to ensure that two teams from the same club cannot compete in the same league or championship. So for any 2nds players, after they've played two successful seasons at league level, they'll have reached the highest stage they're going to.

I can't personally see how that scenario would be in any way more rewarding than competing in ACRPL1. And given that ACPRL1 is a genuinely competitive league, then why take these players into an environment in which they'll go to the likes of Fin or Ballykinler and win by 50 points? Yep they'll have a few tough games, but most of them would be cake walks.


I would though restructure 2nds football a bit differently once past ACPRL1, and have an East Down D1 and South Down D1, in which the top two teams in each would face each other in play-offs to take the two relegated positions in ACPRL1 each year.

ACPRL2 is an inconsistent league as it stands because a number of teams aren't genuinely 2nds teams; they're pulled together on a Sunday morning from full senior players through to boys who have to be dragged out of bed. Largely, in my mind, because travelling over an hour each way to fixtures means giving up your entire Sunday for football. That's too much for players who aren't 100% committed.

[here comes 6]

This is a real Tory attitude by looking the strong clubs to get stronger and the weak clubs to get weaker.  I can really see why kilcoo are in favour of this happening as if its gets them more revenue to sort out solicitors for their misdemeanors on then field of play then they will of course indorse this attitude.

[DownFanatic]

Funnily enough just on the topic of Reserve football, there are only six teams left in the East Down Reserve League. What makes this even more alarming is the fact that it is a 13-a-side league.

Two of the remaining teams are 3rds offerings which means that there are only actually four 2nd strings remaining.

Emigration and 6pm throw ins on a Sunday evening are probably at the root of the problem.

[islandchampions08]

DF do you think the smaller clubs are getting smaller?? that's an alarming stat that only 4 of the smaller east down clubs have a 2nds team, how many of that 2nds team you speak of have a lot of senior players playing?

6pm on a sunday is a joke , 2nds football on a sunday also needs to be looked at, most 2nds players play for the craic and by having sunday games often means they have to sit in on a Saturday or probably more likely play the games with a hangover therefore making the games less competitive

[DownFanatic]

DF do you think the smaller clubs are getting smaller?? that's an alarming stat that only 4 of the smaller east down clubs have a 2nds team, how many of that 2nds team you speak of have a lot of senior players playing?

6pm on a sunday is a joke , 2nds football on a sunday also needs to be looked at, most 2nds players play for the craic and by having sunday games often means they have to sit in on a Saturday or probably more likely play the games with a hangover therefore making the games less competitive

Liatroim 3rds, Carryduff 3rds and Bryansford 3rds have a mix of 2nds players and 3rds while Darragh Cross, Dundrum, St Johns and Drumaness would on average have a third of their teams made up of Senior team starters.

Bright, Ardglass, Kilclief, St Paul's, Dromara, Ballykinlar and Aughlisnafin no longer have 2nds teams while Bredagh and Castlewellan no longer operate 3rds. Teconnaught and Saul recently pulled out of the Reserve league while Kilcoo 3rds operate in the PRFL.

Bryansford, Downpatrick, Loughinisland, Kilcoo, Liatroim, Castlewellan, Bredagh and Carryduff all have 2nds teams who play in the PRFL

Emigration is definitely a factor and probably the main one at that. It would be interesting to see if Reserve football at this level improved if it was changed to a Wednesday night for example.

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This is a real Tory attitude by looking the strong clubs to get stronger and the weak clubs to get weaker.  I can really see why kilcoo are in favour of this happening as if its gets them more revenue to sort out solicitors for their misdemeanors on then field of play then they will of course indorse this attitude.

What do kilcoo need money for solicitors for??this was a serious discussion so feel free to join in again when you can think of a positive and constructive argument.  Haven't a clue what your talkin about.

[T O Hare]

Reserve fixtures on a Sunday really need to be looks at especially the 6 o clock games. There has been a lot of Dnf in both south Down and east Down reserve leagues this year with a lot of teams pulling out of the leagues. I think the boards could look at changing the nights of the fixtures to accommodate the recreational footballer although emigration has played a part in the non fixtures the timing of the matches certainly don't help matters. I had 9 at a thirds meeting back in March, a few phone calls, and having a bit of fun in the sdrfl2 seen the numbers blossom. We have a panel of 26 now for the championship final! But there were still instances on some Sunday's we're we were struggling to get a team due to family commitments, fellas away, etc

[ApresMatch]

Down Fanatic, Darragh  Cross would never have 5 seniors starting. On a good night it be 3. The major problem is Sunday evenings. Alot  of them reserve players will have been in the senior squad on Friday and therefore out of the house. Many of them then are not wiling or allowed by their other halves to sacrifice their Sunday also. Would a Wednesday night work? Or even 1 o'clock on a Sunday? I know we'd get a much better team at 1 than 6.

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Great result for the ford lastnite,especially with 14 men for most of the game, ref got it wrong it was never a red card. King at midfield dominated and gribben was fantastic