Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Main Street]

You brought up concerts, ya tube. My point was that they shouldn't be mentioned ffs.

Jesus you're as thick as brick
I replied to your post about concerts
Here's what you wrote you birdbrain

I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year.

Having concerts is not a reason why the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity.

[armaghniac]

The government didn't sign up to upgrade 3 grounds. They committed specific amounts of money to 3 associations to upgrade their grounds. There is a difference.

Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.

[Milltown Row2]

The government didn't sign up to upgrade 3 grounds. They committed specific amounts of money to 3 associations to upgrade their grounds. There is a difference.

Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.

What money? The 62 million the government had assigned for a new stadium? Or the money Croke was going to cough up for the new development?

[Evil Genius]

I don't think anyone looked at building a stadium for the GAA and thought concerts, yes a business plan would have involved concerts conferences weddings meetings and all sorts that are not associated with the GAA buts that's standard I'd have thought.

I'm not for 40 or 34 grand sized stadium I just want Casement built. I'm fed up with the shite that's carried on since it closed its gates wrongly at the time!

Having concerts in the stadium is fine but if they are the only thing that is going to fill it on a regular basis, you have to ask what you're building it so big for, especially when you are having to go back to government and beg for another £30m.

The GAA was given a huge amount of money for this stadium. More than twice as much as soccer, more than quadruple what rugby got.
They made an almighty balls of their project.
Now they're back seeking an extra £30m - more than soccer got initially, more than double what rugby got initially.
They should be told to take a hike IMO.

Anyone who disagrees with that does so for no other reason than bias.

If it was any other organisation, they'd be saying the same thing. I can imagine the uproar if it was the IFA or Ulster rugby at this craic.

Nicely put, hardstation.

One further point. The government money is specifically designated to provide provincial sports stadia for the three codes, not 40k seater concert venues.

[Evil Genius]

GAA are not begging for another £30m, they just said they're not funding anymore. Government signed up to upgrade 3 stadiums in Belfast, two is done with one more to follow.

Disingenuous.

The GAA are saying they need a stadium which will cost £110m. This is far more than they were originally allocated, indeed far more than is available. Worse, the cost overrun is entirely their own fault.

Their original funding was already very reasonable, they should be required to cut their cloth accordingly, like the two other codes did.

GAA get bigger attendances than soccer & Rugby so need a bigger stadium. Evil G has already stated on previous pages that Windsor should have been constructed with a bigger capacity.

With the money they received, the IFA could have designed and built a stadium with a larger capacity. But they went small rather than big out of an unambitious, small-town mentality (imo).

Your comparison would only hold water if the IFA were now to go back to the government demanding extra money to dig them out of their own initial mistake.

They're not doing so, and even though I'd dearly love to see WP enlarged (I've been in games with over 40k in attendance), I cannot accept that they deserve it.

[Evil Genius]

Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.

I'm sure that could have happened had the GAA wanted. There is this "it had to be one stadium" narrative but I'm not sure how true that is or whether there was room for negotiation on that. The shiny concert venue in Andytown probably suited the GAA and those negotiating on their behalf in government.

Absolutely not so.

When the Civil Service 'bean counters' in Stormont concluded that the original shared stadium on the Maze site could never be financially viable long-term, they basically re-allocated the Maze money between the three codes for each to build a provincial stadium of their own.

They were quite specific that money could not be used for other purposes and any attempt to do so would have left the governing body open to all sorts of legal challenge, both from within the Stormont chamber, and from outside.

[Tony Baloney]

Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.

I'm sure that could have happened had the GAA wanted. There is this "it had to be one stadium" narrative but I'm not sure how true that is or whether there was room for negotiation on that. The shiny concert venue in Andytown probably suited the GAA and those negotiating on their behalf in government.

Absolutely not so.

When the Civil Service 'bean counters' in Stormont concluded that the original shared stadium on the Maze site could never be financially viable long-term, they basically re-allocated the Maze money between the three codes for each to build a provincial stadium of their own.

They were quite specific that money could not be used for other purposes and any attempt to do so would have left the governing body open to all sorts of legal challenge, both from within the Stormont chamber, and from outside.

Which, I imagine would also be the case in relation to giving the GAA an extra £30m?

It looks like the GAA needs to get on with building a stadium that will cost £77m.

Living within your means? It'll never catch on.

[Evil Genius]

When the Civil Service 'bean counters' in Stormont concluded that the original shared stadium on the Maze site could never be financially viable long-term, they basically re-allocated the Maze money between the three codes for each to build a provincial stadium of their own.

They were quite specific that money could not be used for other purposes and any attempt to do so would have left the governing body open to all sorts of legal challenge, both from within the Stormont chamber, and from outside.

Which, I imagine would also be the case in relation to giving the GAA an extra £30m?

Indeed.

(Quite apart from the fact that there is no extra £30m)

It looks like the GAA needs to get on with building a stadium that will cost £77m.

Wow!

Pretty radical thinking there, hs! 

[RadioGAAGAA]

It looks like the GAA needs to get on with building a stadium that will cost £77m.

Not even.

How much of that initial £77m has been burned getting to this point?

[illdecide]

I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.

I don't think anyone looked at building a stadium for the GAA and thought concerts, yes a business plan would have involved concerts conferences weddings meetings and all sorts that are not associated with the GAA buts that's standard I'd have thought.

I'm not for 40 or 34 grand sized stadium I just want Casement built. I'm fed up with the shite that's carried on since it closed its gates wrongly at the time!

Having concerts in the stadium is fine but if they are the only thing that is going to fill it on a regular basis, you have to ask what you're building it so big for, especially when you are having to go back to government and beg for another £30m.

The GAA was given a huge amount of money for this stadium. More than twice as much as soccer, more than quadruple what rugby got.
They made an almighty balls of their project.
Now they're back seeking an extra £30m - more than soccer got initially, more than double what rugby got initially.
They should be told to take a hike IMO.

Anyone who disagrees with that does so for no other reason than bias.

If it was any other organisation, they'd be saying the same thing. I can imagine the uproar if it was the IFA or Ulster rugby at this craic.

GAA are not begging for another £30m, they just said they're not funding anymore. Government signed up to upgrade 3 stadiums in Belfast, two is done with one more to follow.

GAA get bigger attendances than soccer & Rugby so need a bigger stadium. Evil G has already stated on previous pages that Windsor should have been constructed with a bigger capacity.

So the GAA made a balls of their project? the only balls they made was closing Casement until it was ready to close. The scheme has been put on hold for a number of reasons that are not entirely the GAA's fault. H&S, planners, no Government, bitter twisted sectarian Unionists against the scheme or anything Catholic are all to blame so to say the GAA made a balls is silly.

The scheme is going to go ahead eventually no matter what some of you say on here that are against it, I can't understand why some of you are so against the capacity. It just doesn't make sense, an Ulster final with say Tyrone v Armagh would fill 40,000 easily. I know your argument about once a year but it can host other games not just an Ulster final...McKenna cup finals, a super 8 game...Just get the thing built and get on with your lives and then you can find something else to moan about

The government didn't sign up to upgrade 3 grounds. They committed specific amounts of money to 3 associations to upgrade their grounds. There is a difference. The government is under no obligation to ensure the grounds are updated. That lies solely with the respective organisations. Soccer & rugby delivered on their development using the money the government awarded them. The GAA failed to deliver on their stadium. So this "they got theirs so you have to make sure we get ours" is nonsense. The only thing the government have to stand over is the £62m they put forward.

The reason the GAA haven't delivered on their stadium is largely their fault. I concede that the break in Stormont played a part but the rest of it was on the GAA. Playing the "it's cos we're fenians" inferiority card is pathetic tbh. It's not because you are fenians, it's because you are incompetent.

If the GAA aren't willing to fund the project further, who should and why should they?

Well HS not to get into a separate debate about Fenians (your word not mine), around the time of the Casement project I was involved in another scheme under the Stadia Safety and a certain Sports Minister at that time made it quite clear that too many GAA Grounds were getting these grants and the funding was pulled with another GAA Ground next on the list. I know you're going to ask proof which i cannot give. That was i commented on the bitter, anti Catholic agenda...

[illdecide]

I don't want proof. There are bitter & sectarian people everywhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this project has been held up for that reason though.

Yip, fair enough but i did state another 3 or 4 reasons i felt held up the project not just an anti Catholic agenda. Anyway it is what it is and God only knows how it will pan out, I still think it'll be built but who'll fund the extra dosh is anyone's guess and as far as the capacity goes seems everyone has a different opinion.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I don't want proof. There are bitter & sectarian people everywhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this project has been held up for that reason though.

Yip, fair enough but i did state another 3 or 4 reasons i felt held up the project not just an anti Catholic agenda. Anyway it is what it is and God only knows how it will pan out, I still think it'll be built but who'll fund the extra dosh is anyone's guess and as far as the capacity goes seems everyone has a different opinion.

The problem is you are letting the GAA off the hook. The forging of H&S documents is an irrelevant,its a conspiracy by themmuns.

[johnnycool]

I don't want proof. There are bitter & sectarian people everywhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this project has been held up for that reason though.

Yip, fair enough but i did state another 3 or 4 reasons i felt held up the project not just an anti Catholic agenda. Anyway it is what it is and God only knows how it will pan out, I still think it'll be built but who'll fund the extra dosh is anyone's guess and as far as the capacity goes seems everyone has a different opinion.

No, you didn't. You stated 3 in total.
1. No Stormont - I accept that played a part.
2. Health & Safety planners - I'd like you to explain that one further. The fundamental issue was that the planning application submitted by the GAA did not meet h&s requirements. They have to carry the can on that.
3. Sectarianism - Fake news.

Point 2, how could those tasked with the design of the stadium get it so wrong? I'm assuming they were up to speed with the health and Safety regulations and their outworkings but it seems that the planning authority (or whoever it was) deemed the design a safety risk..

Was there a dispute about using the pitch itself as a safe zone in terms of the evacuation?

why would you submit something that was going to fail?

Now, I think Ulster GAA have been more than crap at this but surely their design team they are paying bug bucks to really should have been on the ball here!

[Evil Genius]

Point 2, how could those tasked with the design of the stadium get it so wrong? I'm assuming they were up to speed with the health and Safety regulations and their outworkings but it seems that the planning authority (or whoever it was) deemed the design a safety risk..

You might have asked how could they have got it so wrong TWICE?

To go with the question why they didn't maintain the old ground in a playable state until they had got planning permission and were ready to start the work?

And the question why they so understimated opposition by some of the locals?

Plus why it took so long to satisfy/pacify Antrim GAA members (social club etc)?

And if the suspension of Stormont undoubtedly added to their problems, how come the IRFU and IFA managed to get on with it long before the suspension?

Remember, too, that the Windsor Park re-build had to be revised mid-project, when BCC work on the adjoining Leisure Centre undermined the foundations of the Kop, meaning it unexpectedly had to be replaced as well. (A new Kop was not part of the original plan)

[trailer]

Some great arguments lads. But the bottom line is this. Whatever the cost, the stadium gets built. It's wanted, needed and required. It future proofs our elite level games by having an elite level stadium to hold them in.