Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[DennistheMenace]

What was the previous Capacity of Casement Park?

[NaomhBridAbú]

Seems to be based on the predicted Ulster final attendance which in recent years has been anything between 28000-34000

Even throughout the recession years the attendance has been ~30k. The Croke park Ulster final was ?~60k.
Clones though a great venue in many ways, suffers from a poor infrastructure.
Casement is in Belfast, the country's second largest city , with nearby railway, and less than a mile from the motorway with easy access northwards to Antrim, Derry and Donegal, and South to the rest of the Ulster counties.
The proposed 38k stadium will have comparable or better amenities(shops,bars) than Croke or Aviva, and as in the case of modern stadiums , the attractiveness and uniqueness of the "state of the art" facility, will attract greater and more diverse support, not least from the local West Belfast area. This will potentially revitalise GAA support in our second city, in the way that new Croke park is packed with Dubs supporters , who are not traditional GAA supporters, but who have invigorated our summers over the last few years.
Casement is an iconic venue steeped in history, and it would be a tragedy if it is mothballed or worse still obliterated.
Importantly 38k capacity will make more Ulster finals tickets available , and with economies of scale, probably cheaper tickets.
For the reasons highlighted, I have no doubt that the 38k capacity will be a sellout, at least once every year. Therefore anything less than this capacity would be wholly inadequate for our provincial stadium.
These presumably are some of the reasons that the GAA is adamant that a 38k stadium in Belfast is a must for their optimal strategic development.
More importantly in my view , it would give West Belfast, the  break that it deserves after years of deprivation and underinvestment.
Absolutely , respect the genuine concerns of local residents, but tasteful appropriate development in this area is a must, not just for GAA supporters but for the whole community in Belfast !

How has that worked out over the last 10 years in Croke Park with increased capacity to 82k ?

If the sales pitch is based on a 38,000 capacity as a must , there aren't too many games attracting that kind of crowd...Ulster final and thats it...so one game a year then?
I cannot see people randomly turning up and deciding to take in an Antrim game, just because its on - for that to happen the product would need to chance beyond recognition....as a neutral I would go and see ANY club championship game at junior, inter or senior...football or hurling, because the standard would be reasonable at the very least....no such guarantee unfortunately with ANY DIV 4 team.

So will they have to use the venue for different events...? Renting it out for concerts will see the artists and promotors get wealthy and not the county or province?
Corporate hospitality has been sown up by other venues....would be interesting to see what % of the overall revenue for Ravenhill that accounts for - Ulster rugby will have a much better pedigree and tradition for corporate hospitality and event management than Antrim GAA....

there is much at stake here...outside of the needs of MORA and the GAA...It would be class to see a vibrant stadium in the west, no question....hope that everyone involved can get there OWN shit together...and that for once the GAA will admit that they have played a roll in this fiasco, and move on quickly

[6th sam]

I think the implication that unless a stadium can be filled several times a year, then capacity should be reduced to a level that is likely to be a sold out regularly, is not necessarily valid.
Celtic fc for example, made the brave decision to build a 60k stadium, at a time when they attracted average crowds much less than that. The new Parkhead was instrumental in transforming the dynamic around Celtic fc, and arguably contributed to transforming team success.
Building a new stadium undoubtedly heightens self confidence , pride and self esteem, for the organisation, supporters, and the local community.
Croke park is rarely filled, but if the GAA had decided to build a 60k stadium instead of an 80k one , that would amount to 20000 fewer supporters getting to watch their team in the Allireland final each year.
I think talk of a 25k stadium can be hypothetical only, as this does not meets Ulster's needs, and could only be Antrims county stadium. Perhaps some Antrim gaels underestimate the size of the task and funding required to renovate or build a 25k stadium, and remember they won't be attracting the 80m funding associated with an Ulster project!
The traffic and environmental concerns of a 38k Casement can not be insurmountable, given the numerous precedents for developing stadia of this size, in urban areas. The Residents' concerns similarly can probably be addressed in an atmosphere of mutual respect. I think Niamh Bríd's point re the GAA " Culchies " not being tuned in to urban residents is a valid one, evidenced by the apparent insensitivity surrounding the 5 Garth Brooks concerts, the social club at Casement and MORA.
I think it behoves the GAA at national , Ulster and Antrim level, Stormont and multi-party local politicians to engage with MORA and try to persuade them on the merits of a 38k stadium to transform the Casement site.
MORA for their part need to be aware that if they block a 38k , there won't be a 25k alternative, and they will have to justify the loss of 80m funding, associated further investment, and a facility of which we all could be proud.

PS. The price of AI tickets is comparable or better than similar major events. My argument is that if the size of Croke Park was only 60k , the price of tickets would probably be higher(economies of scale).

[DennistheMenace]

The 38k will happen with our without the residents agreement next year.

[babarino]

The 38k will happen with our without the residents agreement next year.

You're getting it whether you like it or not.

That's exactly the attitude that has caused this costly mess. 

[orangeman]

It will be a fair old walk from Sprucefield to Casement with 38k at a match.

Is there any way of having a flyover from Kennedy way straight on to the M1 that would take away a bit of traffic ?.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

People seem obsessed with the traffic. How do those dozens and dozens of matches across the water happen every week without the country grinding to a halt. If people are so dumb to park their car on the m1 as implied earlier then I hope their car is taken away and crushed. Said it earlier culchies might have to learn to park a short walk away from the stadium with no stress or hassle rather than trying to park at the front gate!

[Rossfan]

I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

[armaghniac]

I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

I posted this before but maybe it was on hoganstand I cant remember but from the West if I was worried that the M1 junction at Kennedy way would be busy then I would come off at Lisburn, take the road that continues onto Upper Malone. I would then park the car in one of the streets near the kings hall and walk 20 mins and you are at Casement alternatively I would leave the car somewhere round Finaghy Road North and walk, again about a 20 minute walk. Even if you dont know Belfast it wouldnt take much planning to avoid any major drama, alternatively take a bus or a train if times work. People on these blogs seem to want to drive their car past the stadium and park off the Andersonstown road. If thats what they want to do then they only have themselves to blame when they are stuck in traffic

[tyroneman]

Train will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.

[Milltown Row2]

I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

So you regularly drive around Armagh with gaa flags in car? Only place I wouldn't drive through would be Twaddle Avenue lol

[blewuporstuffed]

Train will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.

what about the other 80% of ulster?
The main issue with traffic at these events ( and indeed traffic in the north in general) is the lack of a decent public transport system

[Applesisapples]

Just to be clear, the JR was not taken against the GAA. The GAA complied with the planners requirements. The planners requirements in terms of impact assessments were found wanting ergo Joe Brolly is correct. Now if you want to criticize the way the GAA handled the PR and the residents then that may well have some substance.

[armaghniac]

Train will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.

I'm sure there will be great crowds of people in jerseys on the platforms at Helen's Bay.

I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

So you regularly drive around Armagh with gaa flags in car? Only place I wouldn't drive through would be Twaddle Avenue lol

Not so regularly in recent years, alas, but of course flags are part of the GAA. So you are saying that there is no problem in Lisburn, only in Twaddle Avenue? Or are you implying some sort of Larne Catholic analysis that there it isn't reasonable to have a GAA flag on your car?