Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Walter Cronc]

Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?

I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.

Yeah your probably right, as they are most likely south facing along the Andytown road.

[Maguire01]

Additionally, I think the GAA & architects should look at these RAIL SEATS that

1. allow safe standing
2. allow more fans to be accommodated in the same space.

See this great site for technical details:

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

For every 40 seated fans, you can get 72 safely standing fans instead!!!!!!!!!

If both the stands behind the goals had these RAIL SEATS, then it might be possible that the 37k capacity could be met by having a shallower A'town rd stand, that could just allow some form of ROOF to be built over it.

This has got to be worth examining.
If anybody has contacts / influence over the GAA project team or architects, then please forward this to them.

The GAA shouldn't get hung up about having an all seated capacity, when a partially standing capacity could deliver a roof over fans' heads instead.

I like the idea of that - looks good.

[rrhf]

Maze didn't happen, m5 project didn't happen, narrow water bridge didn't happen all a blaming match when the project falls through. The eyes of the northern gaa are watching this and if it falls then we can make our own minds up as to who is to blame.

Coming from a man who said "Meh, it's only internet stuff" when asked in person about posts on this thread. Shows you really don't give a fcuk. For some people, rrhf, it is not "only internet stuff". It will have a huge bearing on the rest of their lives. 24h a day, 7 days a week.

Is road infrastructure the job of the locals.

I dont quite understand whataboutery?

[rrhf]

Quotation?

[rrhf]

Produce quotation

[Tony Baloney]

It is notable that all the Casement development fanboys don't live in its shadow in Andytown and can hop in their cars and leave after a match.

[rrhf]

And to a certain extent it is. Why produce two arguments when one can do?

[snatter]

Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?

I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.

Yeah your probably right, as they are most likely south facing along the Andytown road.

It's the height that any A'town Rd stand would have to be (because it is laughably deeper than the side stands).

This image Illustrates:

[Walter Cronc]

Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?

I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.

Yeah your probably right, as they are most likely south facing along the Andytown road.

It's the height that any A'town Rd stand would have to be (because it is laughably deeper than the side stands).

This image Illustrates:

Any idea what the capacity would be if the A'town road stand was to remain the same as the other three?

My guess would be somehwere around the 32k mark?

[armaghniac]

Anyway, it gives a better appreciation of the residents' position. I know I wouldn't be happy if I effectively lost the use of my back garden.

Would it not have been feasible to try and buy up the houses on one side of the ground and then have a bigger footprint, shift the stadium a bit to one side? From Google maps, there looks to be around 15 houses on the stadium side of the street to the west of the stadium - two houses are already on sale on Property Pal at £220k and £140k -buy up those houses for sale and offer others a good price - say £250k - total cost less than £4m (small in the scheme of the development). Obviously it could only work if people wanted to take the offer - there wouldn't be power (or desire i'm sure) to vest.

In another European country, or even in America, the City would vest these houses, it is not as if vast areas of Belfast have not been vested in the past. But in Ireland a stadia to be used by large numbers of the public seem to be deemed a private good.

However, Snatter has a point, the present location is mainly down to sectarianism.

You could buy the houses, halve the gardens and probably biuld new houses there and sell them to people happy enough with a short garden. The cost would not be that great.

[Jeepers Creepers]

Jeez lads, alot of balls getting talked on this thread. I take it everyone is of a architectural / building control / town planner background?

[Applesisapples]

How does this work ?


The MP for West Belfast, Sinn Féin's Paul Maskey, said the development would create employment in the area and concerns about the road infrastructure could be resolved through dialogue with residents.

We should get Maskey to sort the York Street intersection too - 'dialogue' has to be a significantly cheaper way of solving infrastructure issues than fly-overs and under-passes.
The most inept politician i've ever seen.

Any time I hear Paul Maskey I cringe, he can't even speak, his diction is awful. Time the Shinners invested in elocution lessons.

[snatter]

Jeez lads, alot of balls getting talked on this thread. I take it everyone is of a architectural / building control / town planner background?

what parts of the debate are you struggling to understand?

[snatter]

In another European country, or even in America, the City would vest these houses, it is not as if vast areas of Belfast have not been vested in the past. But in Ireland a stadia to be used by large numbers of the public seem to be deemed a private good.

However, Snatter has a point, the present location is mainly down to sectarianism.

You could buy the houses, halve the gardens and probably biuld new houses there and sell them to people happy enough with a short garden. The cost would not be that great.

No, I do not think that the present Casement site is down to sectarianism. I don't know where you got that from.

Casement was chosen because the GAA Ulster Council were advised by (an unknown & unpublished) consultancy report in 2010 that said Casement could accommodate a 40k fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't and never could - I do wish the original report was published, so all GAA members can see the basis for choosing a site that, whilst GAA-owned, was always too small and constrained.

--

RE Musgrave - I was making the obvious point that, whilst only a few hundred metres across the motorway, it is widely perceived as a neutral area. Consequently, it's more likely to attract the custom of Unionists for non-GAA events, eg concerts & conferences. With Unionists making up just short of 50% of the Grt Belfast population, that equates to more income. More income = less financial maintence burden in future.

--

RE Belfast City Council:  it is my view is that it is now clear that there are massive problems with ever getting the originally tendered 40k all seated & covered stadium on the Casement site.

That has been the case since
1. the capacity was dropped from the tendered 40k to 37k
2. the A'town Rd stand roof was removed, again to appease residents.
3. The official Northern Ireland Environment Agency report where their principal landscape architect slated the development, describing it as "overbearing" and not in keeping with its surroundings. See http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/
4. The improbability of the GAA being allowed to block main arterial routes for hours on event days.

The quality of what is now proposed falls well short of the project's original aims.

In such circumstances, I'd have expected Belfast City Council to have been proactive, and to jointly explore alternative locations with the GAA project team, in order that the originally planned top quality 40k fully covered stadium could be built. And built in Belfast. I'd have expected BCC to do this in recognition of the economic benefits of hosting a top class 40k stadium.

Approximately 10 months ago, BCC did have some "non-job" put out a press release about whether there was anything that BCC could do to facilitate or enhance the stadium developments at Windsor, Ravenhill & Casement. Reading the detail of the BCC initiative, it became clear that the main focus was to use the site of BCC's Olympia leisure centre to build a sports village alongside Windsor Park, enhancing and facilitating the Windsor redevelopment.

Now that the odds are stacked against Casement, why aren't BCC proactively looking at the feasability of granting Musgrave (or the Boucher Rd playing fields, or anywhere else) for the orignal 40k stadium proposed. Why aren't they engaging with the GAA to see how the best possible stadium & associated commercial facilities could be developed to give the best economic lift to Belfast?
Why aren't they examing how best they could use their power and influence to facilitate an alternative site?

That's what Cork adn Liverpool City Councils did.
Can any BCC staffers or councillors tell us why BCC aren't doing the same?

BCC need to step up to the mark and facilitate a much needed plan B. If they can use council property to facilitate the Windsor Park soccer development, then there's no reason they can't do the same for the GAA.

[snatter]

http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/

The Environment Agency report was unequivocal in its view of the visual impact the new stadium will have on the Andersonstown area.

"We advise that a building of the scale proposed should have sufficient open space to its exterior to allow for associated infrastructure, car parking, transport links, etc and to provide a setting and adequate separation between the proposal and adjacent development,"

"The existing site is, unfortunately, constrained on all sides and, in our opinion, it is impossible to meet the requirements of a fit-for-purpose modern stadium that visually integrates with the existing environment."