Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[LC]

On the presumption they can get a Main Contractor on board in the next 6 months whoever that Contractor is will hit the jackpot. They will be working for a Client who is under immense pressure to get the project over the line ahead of Euro 2028 so whatever commercial / contractual disputes that may arise the Contractor will always have the upper hand so will  stick the arm in accordingly because they know the Client has to keep the job moving no matter what.

[snoopdog]

Aside from the costs its the bad look of the thing, filled once or twice a year, is there any county that actually needs their full capacity these days, Kerry for the odd league game? The crowds at the round Robin games last year were piss poor then its into croker anyway after that

When did an Ulster final last attract a crowd over 30k.

[Armagh18]

Aside from the costs its the bad look of the thing, filled once or twice a year, is there any county that actually needs their full capacity these days, Kerry for the odd league game? The crowds at the round Robin games last year were piss poor then its into croker anyway after that

When did an Ulster final last attract a crowd over 30k.

Was Clones not sold out last year or very close to it? How many does it hold?

[Saffrongael]

Ulster final importance becoming more and more diluted with the make up of the leagues and entry to Sam Maguire now, there might not be one in 5-10 years time

[twohands!!!]

On the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.

[Armagh18]

It'll always mean something to Ulster people imo unless we see a team turn into Dublin/Kerry and win 9 outta 10 regularly. Realistically it'll be once in a blue moon that an Ulster team will be in top 2 favourites for the all ireland and ulster is obviously the next biggest prize.

[twohands!!!]

But you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium

You do realise there is a far larger maintenance cost associated to all the above than some bog basic terraced stadium? Since the stadium is constructed at a similar price to the GAA regardless of whether its all-singing or basic, its the on going maintenance costs I'm concerned with.

For instance, those (unneeded) additional areas do not require upkeep, you don't need to periodically check the wiring, fire alarms etc on rooms that don't exist, nor do you need to clean them. Cleaning of terracing after games requires a fraction of the time. You've no seats to replace on terracing.

In the 2019 financial report - first one I got on google - Croke park had a stadium & admin expense of ~€6.2m. Heat/Light/Power was an additional €1m. Staff costs were ~€2.8m.

That is approx €10m to run the stadium. The latter two would be more direct functions of how many events are on - so will disregard them. If we reasonably assume that the stadium/admin costs are directly related to size, then Casement would be approx 40% Croke's maintenance cost - or €2.6m in 2019 prices.

So Ulster Council will need to raise somewhere in the region of €2.6m (2019 prices) after direct operating costs just to upkeep the stadium.

In 2019, Croke had 28 games and 3 concerts to deliver a gross income of around €29m. (total expenses to do that were €17m. We'll remove the "fixed" €~6.2m I mentioned above from this)

So they made approx €580k per game. We'll not factor by size to be favourable to Casement. It still means Ulster council need to fill or nearly fill Casement 4.5 times a year just to keep the stadium.

Needless to say, they won't be able to do this.



It. Doesn't. Fukking. Add. Up.


(Unless of course, there is an open admission that the Ulster Council are actually building a concert venue that they may occasionally let hold a football or hurling match.)

This is the exact problem that is killing PuC -  The Cork County Board had the same idea that concerts would be used to save their bacon - it worked for them in the 70s with the original stadium but that hasn't worked out for them this time around. Trying to payback debt when the stadium is making an ongoing loss is killing them. At the lastCork AGM they announced that the most "optimistic" estimate on when Cork County Board will be debt free is 2048.

As to the source for the estimated 308 million costs, this article is the original source and it's worth a read especially what Heaton-Harris has to say which given he is the one in London who said it would be built aren't exactly the best in terms of the vibes.

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2024-03-01/stormont-officials-outline-cost-of-casement-rebuild-in-leaked-letter

[AustinPowers]

On the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.

Well, there ya go

To hell with the Euros and  with  UEFA and their demands for a heli-pad, monorail  and a rotating cake stand in  the  corporate lounge. 

No point building  unnecessary stuff that'll never  be needed in a GAA stadium.  Build Casement for GAA purposes I'm sure won't be  costing £308m

[armaghniac]

On the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.

Well, there ya go

To hell with the Euros and  with  UEFA and their demands for a heli-pad, monorail  and a rotating cake stand in  the  corporate lounge. 

No point building  unnecessary stuff that'll never  be needed in a GAA stadium.  Build Casement for GAA purposes I'm sure won't be  costing £308m

Does the corporate entertaining have to be in a permanent structure? I presume there are event companies internationally that can do this with gold plated prefabs.

[Wildweasel74]

How come the government. down south didn't bale out the Cork stadium, saying they donating e50 million to Casement.

[Sportacus]

You are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks, I'll not be surprised it's Unionist led. The cost will more likely be £180-£200m which is estimated, the Principal Contractor will likely get a few more million from CE's and EW's etc. Until it's tendered and prices come back everyone is just picking a number and doubling it.
If I'm wrong and it is £300m (which i doubt) then lets look at it again and reduce it or whatever it takes but until then stop guessing the price and wait and see. Material prices have roughly doubled and salaries too in 12 years or so, on that basis and the initial costing of £80m i'm guessing (and adding another bit to it) is between £180m-£200m

Why do you say that? Do you have a figure that you wouldn't go past? No, the cost does not bother me.

I'm taking from your post that it's somewhere between £200m and £300m? I'm basing my estimate on salaries and material costs from it's initial costing. As above i'm going for £180m - £200m

My view is the stadium needs built. For Antrim and for West Belfast, I would love to have what they're proposing and be proud of it. Showing it off to the World. However, if that is not feasible then get something built that is. I would love nothing more than the Irish Government to stomp up the additional money for this just to rub the bitter bastids noses in it, that would send them over the edge.
If this stadium is never built as stated above this money will not go to Health and infrastructure as it's a different pot of money, if they were to do that it would be a grain of sand to their budget and wouldn't change a thing.

Lovely sentiment, but Antrim GAA leadership gave it away which was unforgivable.  I see no guarantee that Antrim will have much access to it in future. It really is a shambles of the highest order.  The posters who said it 'will' be built and the money 'will' be found - it looks like a bigger mess than ever now.

[RedHand88]

Worth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.

[trailer]

Worth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.

Exactly. We need the Euros to get this built and the IFA need casement if they want to secure the Euros.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Worth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.

Exactly. We need the Euros to get this built and the IFA need casement if they want to secure the Euros.

Why?

I ask this because even before Euro 2028 became a possibility, you have always been of the opinion that the stadium should be built regardless of cost and that the bill should be picked up by the British government.
You seemed confident this would happen.
So, why now is it reliant on Euro 2028?

[Tony Baloney]

The suits that started this a long time ago have a lot to answer for.