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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Joxer on October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

Title: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Joxer on October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM
From Hoganstand:

Casement Park could be transformed into an all-seater stadium if ambitious plans to redevelop the Belfast venue are given the green light.

Northern Ireland Sports Minister Nelson McCausland is expected to provide a paper to the Stormont Executive recommending the multi-million euro redevelopment of Casement Park along with Belfast's other main sporting grounds, Windsor Park and Ravenhill, in the coming days.

The GAA, IFA and IRFU will all make a financial contribution to their respective projects. Under the proposed plan, Casement Park would be razed to the ground and developed into a 40,000 all-seater stadium which could become the future home for the Ulster football final.

"We have gone through a rigorous process, a very detailed process by an independent consultant, and it has now been accepted so it does stack up," Ulster Council president Aogan Farrell told The Irish Daily Star.

"We wouldn't be in this game only we felt it's a development that's needed."

__________________________

Believe it when I see it.  Would be great to see and great for the GAA,  but wouldn't trust McCausland as far as I could throw him regarding this.  He'll throw a spanner in the works yet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 06, 2010, 02:53:45 PM
Are there not enough redeveloped, seldom used grounds around Ireland? Would there be enough games for a 40,000 Casement ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on October 06, 2010, 02:56:59 PM
Minder, this is money that has been set aside for the Maze project.

If Casement isnt redeveloped then the money will be lost to the GAA completely. Soccer and Rugby are getting their share, so if it is money that is already there that we have paid for in taexs then why not have it spent on Casement.

Thats not to say the rights and wrongs of the overall idea to build 3 stadiums for these 3 sports in a province the size that it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Oldhacker on October 06, 2010, 03:14:49 PM
There is nothing new about this. The general plans of the Ulster Council have been discussed openly for many years. It will only reach the crucial stage when the money is agreed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 04:07:21 PM
The money is there for the taking, I say take it. Especially from the Tories.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rois on October 06, 2010, 04:45:43 PM
But will it require a bigger GAA monetary commitment than a simple refurb of Casement without drastic work?  Because if the GAA has to spend more than it would spend without the Maze money then we'll be out of pocket for something we don't need. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 06, 2010, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 06, 2010, 04:45:43 PM
But will it require a bigger GAA monetary commitment than a simple refurb of Casement without drastic work?  Because if the GAA has to spend more than it would spend without the Maze money then we'll be out of pocket for something we don't need.
Can't agree, Clones is hard to get to and out of a nice new Casement would be welcome.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: MCMLX on October 06, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 05:01:23 PM
QuoteQuote from: Banana Man on Today at 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it


I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.

I'm the opposite MCMLX, must be a sadist or something in me but i love the fact that it is a full day out when you head to clones, the banter with everyone cause you leave early to get parked up etc and spend the return journey dissecting who was sh!te  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 06, 2010, 05:26:28 PM
Casement wouldn't be easy to get out of if there were 40,000 there either, especially if they are all heading on the M1.

In any case there has to be a doubt over this money in the present environment, the only thing pushing it is the semi derelict state of Windsor Park. With cuts to hospitals, schools and roads etc coming down the line it is hard to spend so much on a stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 06, 2010, 06:18:06 PM
build it and they will come
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 06, 2010, 06:39:20 PM
Anyone seen any plans or concept drawings of the proposed finished article?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: MCMLX on October 06, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement? Difficult to make any valid comparison, but it has taken me a good while to get out onto the motorway after matches with 20,000 people.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 06, 2010, 06:56:47 PM
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I, and plenty of others don't want to sit and watch matches. Is this really so complicated for the hierarchy to understand?  ???
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:57:47 PM
This is obviously bad news for Clones. The Ulster Council need a proper strategy for this. If Casement is going to be 40,000 capacity, then maybe Clones should be reduced to 25,000 and modernised; or maybe Casement should be developed with 25,000 capacity with a roof and all the bells and whistles.

The Ulster Council should be looking at the bigger picture here and not just building something big for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:01:10 PM
Bring it on.  About time Casement was redeveloped.  It should be the primary stadium for any big games in Ulster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:01:10 PM
Bring it on.  About time Casement was redeveloped.  It should be the primary stadium for any big games in Ulster

Why should it be?  Just because it is in Belfast?

I think the place is away completely when there is money set aside for three stadia when there is cuts everywhere else.  And i don't like the "if its not used it will be lost". who makes the decision that it is lost and where is it lost to?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 07:37:52 PM
Why should it be?   Just because it is in Belfast?

I think the place is away completely when there is money set aside for three stadia when there is cuts everywhere else.  And i don't like the "if its not used it will be lost". who makes the decision that it is lost and where is it lost to?
Transport links.  Clones is a nightmare to get to and anyway it wouldn't be considered as it doesn't fall within the jurisdiction.  If the GAA are getting the money to build from the government then I don't see that any reason not to redevelop Casement could be a good enough one
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 07:37:52 PM
Why should it be?   Just because it is in Belfast?

I think the place is away completely when there is money set aside for three stadia when there is cuts everywhere else.  And i don't like the "if its not used it will be lost". who makes the decision that it is lost and where is it lost to?
Transport links.  Clones is a nightmare to get to and anyway it wouldn't be considered as it doesn't fall within the jurisdiction.  If the GAA are getting the money to build from the government then I don't see that any reason not to redevelop Casement could be a good enough one
Would somwhere in the middle of the province not benefit everyone a bit better than Casement?  Ones from Donegal and Fermanagh don't really feel the transport links benefits if it takes longer getting home from a game with the only advantage being not sitting in a queue.  Personally i would rather sit in a queue for a while and get home sooner than be on the road for longer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:52:54 PM
where would you suggest? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cde on October 06, 2010, 08:01:11 PM
Ballygawley roundabout
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 08:01:21 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 06, 2010, 07:47:56 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.

If the money was for Casement Park OR new schools and/or hospitals, I'd agree. However, this money is separate from the Northern Ireland Stormont budget. I cannot go anywhere else but Casement Park. If we don't use, we lose it. It WON'T be re-allocated into other Stormont Departments.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:52:54 PM
where would you suggest?
Thats a tough one to be honest and i can't think of anywhere central to the province that needs doing up that much.  Perhaps Omagh if an all seater stadium is wanted for ulster final day and there is already a start there with the part that is seated already.  this could mean there is a bit left over that could be used in other ways.

However if a case can't be made for why it should be done at all rather than just because it is "long overdue" then i think the money should be used elsewhere.  is there anything really bad about how it is at the minute?  why does it have to be seated all the way round?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:18:54 PM
As ziggy says, the money is going to Casement or the GAA aren't getting a penny.  What's the problem with all-seater ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:18:54 PM
As ziggy says, the money is going to Casement or the GAA aren't getting a penny.  What's the problem with all-seater ?

Whats the need for it.  I love standing at a match and roaring a team on and if i ever end up in a seated area then im usually standing for most of the match anyway.

If it doesn't go to Casement where does it go?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
It's going nowhere and I prefer to sit and roar
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:33:33 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
It's going nowhere and I prefer to sit and roar

Do you need 40000 places to chose from?  But sure it only a few million they are talking about...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:33:33 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
It's going nowhere and I prefer to sit and roar

Do you need 40000 places to chose from?  But sure it only a few million they are talking about...

I think the GAA's cut of it, is £50,000,000. IFA getting £20,000,000 and Ulster Rugby getting £30,000,000.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
Why are we discussing it? The money is being given and its going nowhere else. I'll be happy to watch our club teams in Casement. The place could be used for other things like concerts and rallys ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 06, 2010, 09:20:37 PM
Why "all seater" ?
Nothing like a bit of an oul terrace
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 06, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
i would redevelope casement with 2 brilliant stands either side of the pitch with covered terraces behind each goals.
use for all Ulster finals and any AI qf that involves 2 ulster teams, could be used for national league finals the odd time also. also compromise rules
The money wont be used for anything else.
Yes it could be given out to all the 6 northern counties to develope all their county grounds but then we would have a load of average stadiums in ulster and no great ones.
This would become the GAA's 2nd best ground.
get it built and fcuk the begrudgers
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 06, 2010, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 06, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
i would redevelope casement with 2 brilliant stands either side of the pitch with covered terraces behind each goals.

f**k that.

The prawn sandwich munchers can sit behind the goals.

Why should the people that want to stand get packed into the worst viewing sections?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 10:04:44 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 06, 2010, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 06, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
i would redevelope casement with 2 brilliant stands either side of the pitch with covered terraces behind each goals.

f**k that.

The prawn sandwich munchers can sit behind the goals.

Why should the people that want to stand get packed into the worst viewing sections?
It could equally be asked why they should get the best, could it not?  Also, seats cost more to sit on than standing in a terrace so people in seats should get better value for their money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 06, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 10:46:26 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 06, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
1961 is irrelevant - how many of the 41,000 came by car? When was the last time there was a crowd anywhere close to 30,000 in Casement?

Whatever about the 1992 attendance, the finals in Clones have been pretty consistent at around 30,000+ - I think it has been around the 33,000 mark for the past 3-4 years anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Beir Bua on October 06, 2010, 10:56:14 PM
Ulster Finals in Clones in  2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 were all sell outs at 35,000 full capacity and there was demand for more tickets, the Ulster Final in 2006 in Croke Park had 50,000 attending, 2005 was 60,000 and 2004 had 68,000 attending.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bcarrier on October 06, 2010, 11:15:45 PM
bring it on .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 06, 2010, 11:21:14 PM
Quote from: Beir Bua on October 06, 2010, 10:56:14 PM
Ulster Finals in Clones in  2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 were all sell outs at 35,000 full capacity and there was demand for more tickets, the Ulster Final in 2006 in Croke Park had 50,000 attending, 2005 was 60,000 and 2004 had 68,000 attending.

I'm fairly sure the 2004 final had over 70,000 at it. Could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 11:56:43 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 06, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
Yes it could be given out to all the 6 northern counties to develope all their county grounds but then we would have a load of average stadiums in ulster and no great ones.

That's the thing, the money can't be split for various stadia. It's for one or none.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 07, 2010, 12:29:34 AM
QuoteWhen was the last time there was a crowd anywhere close to 30,000 in Casement?

Armagh v Derry had 28000 or so, when was that 2006?

The problem with Casement is a total lack of atmosphere in the surrounding area. You can go to Clones with the flag on the car and stop en route for an ice cream, I don't fancy doing that in Hillsborough. 

There is a broader issue about location in that Belfast is not well located in Ireland generally. It is fine for a Antrim/Down game or even a Derry/Down game, but it isn't really useful for league finals and the like except for a very limited set of teams.

If the GAA were really insightful, and I suspect that they aren't, they should  build a 30,000 seater with roof and have concerts and open it to the rugger and soccer folks from time to time. The latter especially might not come,  but that would show them up too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 08:08:15 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 10:04:44 PM
It could equally be asked why they should get the best, could it not?  Also, seats cost more to sit on than standing in a terrace so people in seats should get better value for their money

They already have the seated stand down one side of the pitch. Why is it fair to remove the terracing from the other side?

Yes, per ticket, seating pricing is higher.


However, spectator density is much higher on terracing than in seats, I cannot find figures comparing the two but I would imagine it is of the order of 2:1 ratio. Therefore it is not "costing" the GAA to have terracing - so the argument of providing better facilities is somewhat spurious* - and looks at it only from the perspective of the person in the seat, not the two people that would be standing in their place.

*It is simply countered with "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 06, 2010, 07:47:56 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 08:53:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 06, 2010, 07:47:56 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Ulster County? Where?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 08:53:04 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 06, 2010, 07:47:56 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Ulster County? Where?
See the edited version above
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 07, 2010, 01:33:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on October 06, 2010, 07:47:56 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.

Is Finaghy the nearest rail station?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 01:36:50 PM
there'd be no problem getting shuttle buses from great victoria.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 07, 2010, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 07, 2010, 01:33:12 PM
Is Finaghy the nearest rail station?

It might be a bit closer to Balmoral?

see google map link below.

I always thought that Musgrave Park would've made a great site for the shared stadium - close to motorway and train stations, in neutral area, and located half way between Windsor and Casement.


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Belfast+BT9+7,+United+Kingdom+(Balmoral)&daddr=54.57309,-5.97697+to:88-100+Andersonstown+Road,+Belfast+BT11+9,+United+Kingdom+(Casement+Park)+to:Belfast+BT10+0,+United+Kingdom+(Finaghy)&hl=en&geocode=FW6lQAMdb-uk_yH1vdaSRH95qA%3BFSK4QAMddsyk_ylFEKTJIQZhSDHgEyuesj8PEw%3BFYS5QAMdubCk_yEMQkIq3GHzqg%3BFfqTQAMdaKSk_yHy4KM3Bk5auA&mra=pd&mrcr=1&via=1&dirflg=w&sll=54.588167,-5.947179&sspn=0.088925,0.108318&ie=UTF8&ll=54.569673,-5.981069&spn=0.022241,0.04343&z=15

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 07, 2010, 06:44:08 PM
Can anyone tell me why it HAS to be spent on stadia and nowhere else? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 10:46:26 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 06, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
1961 is irrelevant - how many of the 41,000 came by car?

Then you should have qualified your original question!!   ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 10:46:26 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 06, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
1961 is irrelevant - how many of the 41,000 came by car?

Then you should have qualified your original question!!   ::)
Why? We were talking about access to and communting to the ground. I would have thought it was obvious.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Is Belfast the Capital City of Ulster? Do the provinces have capital cities?

Anyway, as for Casement and rail services, that's fine for the small proprtion of Ulster GAA fans close to our 'vast' rail network. It would be interesting to know how many people currently use rail to travel to games in Casement. I can't imagine it being too significant.

As for busses or Park and Ride schemes, there's no reason why the same couldn't be done for Clones to relieve congestion. Part and ride from Monaghan. It's not something that could only be a solution for Casement. The uptake on such schemes would be another matter altogether.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 07:23:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
Why? We were talking about access to and communting to the ground. I would have thought it was obvious.

Well that being the case, did not 41,000 access the ground in 1961?

And you don't think they travelled by car? What then were the alternatives? Are you arguing they came by rail? There is little or no difference to the geographical spread of the rail system today, compared to back then - certainly for the competing counties. That being the case then, would that not support the extension of Casement Park to a 40,000 seater?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 07:23:21 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
Why? We were talking about access to and communting to the ground. I would have thought it was obvious.

Well that being the case, did not 41,000 access the ground in 1961?

And you don't think they travelled by car? What then were the alternatives? Are you arguing they came by rail? There is little or no difference to the geographical spread of the rail system today, compared to back then - certainly for the competing counties. That being the case then, would that not support the extension of Casement Park to a 40,000 seater?
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bord na Mona man on October 07, 2010, 08:18:21 PM
Banging an old drum here, but 40,000 seats is a total waste.
How about 10-15k seated and 20-25k terracing?

Build 40,000 seats and seats numbered 35,000-40,000 will probably only be occupied once every couple of years.
When it breaks down to roughly €1,000 per seat when you construct a seated stand, this makes no economic sense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 07, 2010, 09:43:42 PM
God there is really a shortage of rocket scientists on this topic.
Look the Northern Ireland Assembly was given 100 million years ago to build one stadium for all sports in NI(ie 6 counties)
The IFA couldnt agree to anything so the money was split for the 3,
GAA got 50,000,000 as its the biggest sporting org in the North
Ulster Rugby get 30,000,000
IFa get 20,000,000 cause no one watches them.
This money is for nothing else only this.
All 50,000,000 goes to the building of a GAA stadium within the 6 counties.
Sooner its built the better.
Clones is a kip.full of pissed up teenagers, not a nice atmosphere to bring the children too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2010, 10:16:00 PM
Personally I've always liked the atmosphere at Clones, but anyway...

Rather than fill the country with Croke Parks that are seldom going to be filled, the emphasis should be on smaller but better stadiums.  That means better safety (i.e. all-seater with modern design) better comfort (i.e. plastic seats and a roof) and better access.  40,000 sounds like a perfectly reasonable capacity for high profile Ulster championship matches.  If it's Armagh and Tyrone and you're expecting 60,000 then throw the game into Croke Park.

This argument that the stadium will spend most of its time unused could be applied to any stadium no matter how much it costs to develop.  The only way to overcome that is to be clever in how you design the thing. Make it multi-use. The Reebok Stadium in Bolton is a 'hotel shaped like a football stadium', its cash registers keep on ringing whether there's a game on or not. Old Trafford has a big merchandise store and visitors' centre built in. Croke Park has all sorts of conference and wedding facilities built in to keep the income flowing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
I'd say a new Casement stadium could help rejuvinate West Belfast. I think it is only fitting that Ireland's second city has a decent stadium for our national games, like Eamonmaca1 says it needn't sit idle for most of the year like people are saying! Huge possibilities and if £50m is being thrown our way we may as well use it. Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc to keep it ticking over - Never mind f**king Clones, absolute rat-race getting in and out of the place! Belfast is far more accessible!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:13:01 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2010, 10:16:00 PM
That means better safety (i.e. all-seater with modern design)

Jesus, here we go.

Another f**king health and safety drone.


Name a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

:D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 07, 2010, 11:27:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

:D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.

People laughed at these days when they were suggested for Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 11:37:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

:D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.
f**k me it's not Beirut! Any brand new stadium is going to have huge commercial potential. Stranger things have happened!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are against the Casement redevelopment on the basis of access?

I have been to many, many matches in Clones and Casement, and the transport infrastructure around Casement is far superior to that of Clones (and I'm making this comparison, as Clones to me is the only genuine alternative). Belfast has frequent taxi and bus services to the City Centre that pass the Casement Park area, Park and Ride facilities to the City Centre from points along the motorway, and of course the motorway itself along with other main routes into that side of the City. There are also rail links and regular bus services. Throw in a couple of airports as well.

I have found (from personal experience) that getting out of Belfast after a big game is easier than Clones. Clones has hosted many big games - in response to your earlier question I have already pointed out that Casement held over 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final, and a crowd of around 35,000 for the Ulster semi-final of 1992. Someone else has pointed out that there was just under 28,000 for the Armagh v Derry semi-final in 2005, and I think there was a crowd of around 30,000 for the replay between Derry and Antrim in the Ulster semi-final of 2000.

These all point to evidence that Casement has hosted crowds of 30,000 plus without issues.

Just for interest by the way, I took this photo a few years back, before the floodlights were installed - the M1 is above the ground in the picture.

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/RufusTFirefly1/Casement.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 07, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/Screenshot2010-10-07at235729.png)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 08, 2010, 09:50:13 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Is Belfast the Capital City of Ulster? Do the provinces have capital cities?

Anyway, as for Casement and rail services, that's fine for the small proprtion of Ulster GAA fans close to our 'vast' rail network. It would be interesting to know how many people currently use rail to travel to games in Casement. I can't imagine it being too significant.

As for busses or Park and Ride schemes, there's no reason why the same couldn't be done for Clones to relieve congestion. Part and ride from Monaghan. It's not something that could only be a solution for Casement. The uptake on such schemes would be another matter altogether.
I have a great affection and many happy memories of casement stretching to the late 1960's, but be realistic the executive in Stormont is providing the funding, personnally if the UC spent it in Clones I wouldn't care but I can't see the skirt wearing minister for Cuulture, Oorts en Leesure agreeing!! :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 08, 2010, 10:22:06 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 08, 2010, 09:50:13 AM
I can't see the skirt wearing minister for Cuulture, Oorts en Leesure agreeing!! :D

Yes, but they've realised that £50million to the GAA is the price they must pay if they're to bail out their beloved Norn Iron with yet more public money.

Local soccer draws such small support that they were unable to maintain the free stand they got at Windsor, and now can't afford to bring Windsor up to Fifa minimum standards. Notwithstanding their miniscule support, they think its their right to bankrolled by the taxpayer. Hands up everyody that remembers Windsor Park getting a free stand whilst GAA crowds three times the size were standing on grass banks and got nothing.

Unionists will throw money to avoid the prospect of NI being forced to play in Scotland because more people would then question why we have two teams on this small island. Mc Causland and his OWC ilk would regard a single all ireland soccer team as a very symbolic weakening of their beloved union, and would regard any price as worth paying to avoid that.

That's what this has always been about, not the GAA's greater need, and certainly not the fact that there are better things to spend the money on.

The only difference between now and 1983 is that we've now got devolution and can now demand that our greater needs get funded equitably. Side deals between english Tory ministers and local unionists no longer count. They either give us the share that our larger crowds dictate we should have, or the deal's off and they can either play their games in Ayr, or start running a few lottos.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Two Hands FFS on October 08, 2010, 10:47:26 AM
I've been going to Casement to watch club & county matches(7/8 times a year) for about 20 years now & I honestly can barely recall any trouble either in the stadium or outside. As someone said you'd think it was Beirut!!!
The Ulster Council are going to take the money, they'd be crazy not to. There hardly like to say ' don't worry about the £50 million  we've got a nice ground in a different country that has tradition & is good craic, plus you'd get yourhead knocked in up andytown'
The Ulster council won't build a 40,000 seater stadium & then not think of the infrastructure & parking/restaurants. They will have already thought of this. They are very well organised & I'd be very surprised if the money comes that they don't make a good job of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 08, 2010, 11:30:02 AM
just out of interest, does anyone know if they get the £50m will there b stipulations attached e.g. i must be made available for soccer games if something happened with the updated Windsor park, wouldn't shock me if nelson switched the goalposts on this one...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 08, 2010, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on October 08, 2010, 11:30:02 AM
just out of interest, does anyone know if they get the £50m will there b stipulations attached e.g. i must be made available for soccer games if something happened with the updated Windsor park, wouldn't shock me if nelson switched the goalposts on this one...

if they did that, they'd clearly be collapsing the deal, and they wouldn't get their beloved Windsor done up, which is what this is really all about (see above).

With devolution, this deal must be approved by both sides, not just unionists. Thankfully, they can't ignore our larger attendances like they did in 1983.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
QuoteName a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
At a club game a few years back, one of our lads got smacked off the ball. His Da ran on and thumped the guy who done it. If' he'd been sitting in a seat behind a fence, he probably wouldn't have.

Also, at another club game, similar situation where a lad's mum & dad both ran on to smack a boy.
There's 2 examples! Now we have a fence, you'll be glad to hear :)


Has anyone got the plans for Casement that were in the Irish News a while back?
They also show new car parks south of the M1 and a bridge over to casement. Also don't forget the many car parks on the boucher rd


QuoteYou are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.

IMO the andytown road has a hell of a lot more going for it than Jones' had before croker was redeveloped. Before croker was redeveloped would Jurys have considered running a hotel out there??

Do yous think Ulster rugby would ever be interested in using it for a big tie?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 08, 2010, 02:54:35 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
QuoteName a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
At a club game a few years back, one of our lads got smacked off the ball. His Da ran on and thumped the guy who done it. If' he'd been sitting in a seat behind a fence, he probably wouldn't have.

Would the prevention be the seat or the fence?


Quote from: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
Also, at another club game, similar situation where a lad's mum & dad both ran on to smack a boy.
There's 2 examples! Now we have a fence, you'll be glad to hear :)

Not really.


QuoteIMO the andytown road has a hell of a lot more going for it than Jones' had before croker was redeveloped.

There already are big conference hotels in the city centre, which will make any Andytown version a hard sell.

Quote
Do yous think Ulster rugby would ever be interested in using it for a big tie?

I would consider it highly unlikely - but not impossible.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 03:11:33 PM
I was just joking about the two examples there.

QuoteThere already are big conference hotels in the city centre, which will make any Andytown version a hard sell.
There were already plenty of convention centres in Dublin city centre before croker opened, yet its successful. I'd say the unique location of having a convention in a sports stadium, may help market it as a venue. I don't see why it would be much different for a new Casement. Andytown isn't the nicest location, either is drumcondra, and neither are in the city centre.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:06:02 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are against the Casement redevelopment on the basis of access?

I have been to many, many matches in Clones and Casement, and the transport infrastructure around Casement is far superior to that of Clones (and I'm making this comparison, as Clones to me is the only genuine alternative). Belfast has frequent taxi and bus services to the City Centre that pass the Casement Park area, Park and Ride facilities to the City Centre from points along the motorway, and of course the motorway itself along with other main routes into that side of the City. There are also rail links and regular bus services. Throw in a couple of airports as well.

I have found (from personal experience) that getting out of Belfast after a big game is easier than Clones. Clones has hosted many big games - in response to your earlier question I have already pointed out that Casement held over 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final, and a crowd of around 35,000 for the Ulster semi-final of 1992. Someone else has pointed out that there was just under 28,000 for the Armagh v Derry semi-final in 2005, and I think there was a crowd of around 30,000 for the replay between Derry and Antrim in the Ulster semi-final of 2000.

These all point to evidence that Casement has hosted crowds of 30,000 plus without issues.

Just for interest by the way, I took this photo a few years back, before the floodlights were installed - the M1 is above the ground in the picture.

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/RufusTFirefly1/Casement.jpg)
Thanks for the photo, but I drive past it along the M1 twice a day and have been to countless matches at Casement so i'm familiar with the set-up.

And i'm not against Casement on the basis of access at all. I'm just making the point that anywhere you have 35,000 people trying to leave at the same time, you'll have delays. I've been to Casement at matches with 20,000 people and it has taken me half an hour just to get out onto the motorway.

And you say there were "no issues" when Casement has hosted big matches. I never said there was. But i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.
Personally the delay doesn't bother me - if it did i'd sit at home. But it's the main argument used by those who favour Casement over Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government

Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyssam5 on October 08, 2010, 07:42:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.

Why? A good few lads would come home from England and elsewhere to see an Ulster Final
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 08:24:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM

Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.
Some delays yes, though not as bad as getting out of Clones.  I was thinking of the other motorway as well
There would be a right few from North Armagh would get the train when Armagh are playing, I would imagine the same would happen if Down were drawn to play there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 08:58:50 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on October 08, 2010, 07:42:02 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.

Why? A good few lads would come home from England and elsewhere to see an Ulster Final
I'd imagine it wouldn't be a significant proportion of the 35-40,000. I'd also imagine they'd head home for the weekend and not fly in for throw-in and out after the final whistle.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 08, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Allow me to adopt your debating style for my reply.

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:06:02 PM
...i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.

I never said they were. 

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM
That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

But you don't appear to be debating pros and cons at this stage - all you appear to be saying is that Casement is at no more of an advantage or disadvantage to host big games than Clones.

That being the case, what was your rationale for querying matches where Casement Park had held 30,000?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 11:27:39 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 08, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Allow me to adopt your debating style for my reply.

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:06:02 PM
...i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.

I never said they were. 

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM
That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

But you don't appear to be debating pros and cons at this stage - all you appear to be saying is that Casement is at no more of an advantage or disadvantage to host big games than Clones.

That being the case, what was your rationale for querying matches where Casement Park had held 30,000?
To see how long it took people to get out of Casementr / home when there was a crowd similar to that of matches in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 09, 2010, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 11:27:39 PM
To see how long it took people to get out of Casementr / home when there was a crowd similar to that of matches in Clones.

I see - so the replies I have offered up here have convinced you that there is little or no difference in those respects (being discussed) between Casement and Clones!!   

Excellent!! ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: mrgaa1 on October 09, 2010, 09:13:09 AM
Clones is a great place to watch a match with its natural ampitheatre - but the town is a kip - there ain't enough facilities such as toilets at that place and it can be difficult to get out of the town if you don't know the backroads out :-X

However to do up Casement Park needs some investigation.

First of all £50m is far too much to do up Casement - to make it 40,000 all seater would cost in the region of £25-30m.  Where does the rest of the monies go or where is it allowed to go?  Personally I'd like to see grants becoming available to normal clubs around the counties to allow them to finish of projects at their own grounds - a new pitch, parking, scoreboards etc.....

One of the main issues I have with Casement is parking itself.  Where will everyone park?  The slip road of the M1 can not cope and leads to tailbacks.  Of course you can go on ahead and come back on yourself but all-in-alll parking is the major concern I'd have. 

Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports.  A museum reflecting the past and a new stadium reflecting the future for all people.  It would have been a great legacy for the future but small mindedness from a few people can still over-rule the wishes of the many. 
The maze project would have had huge car parking, great facilities, easy access for all, a fantastic new stadium that could have been shared by all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2010, 10:11:26 AM
Quote from: mrgaa1 on October 09, 2010, 09:13:09 AM
Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports. 

No way.


1. Maze is in an area which would be mostly hostile to GAA fans - you think the clampers around Croke are bad? You'd have some fun returning to a row of cars with windows out.

2. The pitch sizes of the 3 sports are incompatible - as was clearly seen by the lack of atmosphere at Croke for all games bar the rugby v England and France.

3. There are no facilities at the maze. Such facilities would be built solely for use on match days, and would never be able to survive the rest of the year. Leading to temporary stuff which would be rubbish.

4. It would be an all-seater stadium. I do not want an all seater stadium. I am sure many, many others are of the same opinion.

5. The crowds for an Ulster final far outweigh the crowds for Ulster or Norn Iron games, tickets were available for Ravenhill last night as late as wednesday, maybe even at the gate. That is a ~15K capacity stadium which was not full for a Heineken cup game. Norn Iron, well.... I dunno what kinda numbers they would get - hard to judge based on Windsor.

6. There would be no social scene around the Maze. Many have their pre and post game social arrangements for Casement, Clones, Ravenhill or Windsor. Such a thing simply wouldn't be possible at an isolated stadium built in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 09, 2010, 11:31:10 AM
Guys lets me realistic here the £50m must be spent in the O6C's end off. The debate about Clones is moot. Anyway Clones was chosen as the provincial ground because the Freestate Government don't tax the receipts, HQ was moved to Armagh to source funding, so the UC is really playing the game, a bit like the dealin' men from Crossmaglen, they'll strike oil next!! :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2010, 10:11:26 AM
Quote from: mrgaa1 on October 09, 2010, 09:13:09 AM
Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports. 

No way.


1. Maze is in an area which would be mostly hostile to GAA fans - you think the clampers around Croke are bad? You'd have some fun returning to a row of cars with windows out.

2. The pitch sizes of the 3 sports are incompatible - as was clearly seen by the lack of atmosphere at Croke for all games bar the rugby v England and France.

3. There are no facilities at the maze. Such facilities would be built solely for use on match days, and would never be able to survive the rest of the year. Leading to temporary stuff which would be rubbish.

4. It would be an all-seater stadium. I do not want an all seater stadium. I am sure many, many others are of the same opinion.

5. The crowds for an Ulster final far outweigh the crowds for Ulster or Norn Iron games, tickets were available for Ravenhill last night as late as wednesday, maybe even at the gate. That is a ~15K capacity stadium which was not full for a Heineken cup game. Norn Iron, well.... I dunno what kinda numbers they would get - hard to judge based on Windsor.

6. There would be no social scene around the Maze. Many have their pre and post game social arrangements for Casement, Clones, Ravenhill or Windsor. Such a thing simply wouldn't be possible at an isolated stadium built in the middle of nowhere.
That's the plan for Casement too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 11:44:05 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 09, 2010, 01:31:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 11:27:39 PM
To see how long it took people to get out of Casementr / home when there was a crowd similar to that of matches in Clones.

I see - so the replies I have offered up here have convinced you that there is little or no difference in those respects (being discussed) between Casement and Clones!!   

Excellent!! ;D
Yes, transport links are clearly better around Casement. But you'll be stuck in traffic no matter where the match is. You won't be out of Casement in 10 minutes either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 12:20:23 PM
Casement would be handy for any ulster team that draws dublin in the backdoor. The game could be played outside croker for once!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 12:56:35 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 12:20:23 PM
Casement would be handy for any ulster team that draws dublin in the backdoor. The game could be played outside croker for once!
There is no excuse for not having their qualifier games outside Croker as it is. How many were at the Tipp and Armagh qualifier games? Would have fitted more than comfortably into any number of provincial grounds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: put-it-up-again on October 09, 2010, 01:00:58 PM
Am I the only one thinking that converting Casement to a 40,000 seater stadium is a waste of money?

Do we really need a 40,000 stadium? Look at Breffni Park, it's way bigger than it needs to be and it takes away from atmosphere in a game. Bar the Ulster Final, so one game each year, it would never be full.

Sounds stupid to do up Casement, Windsor and Ravenhill as well. Surely that money could be spent better to serve the general public
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 01:42:55 PM
No, the money is there for sports stadia, so lets use it. We could question whether this is the best way to use it. What about the idea of 20-25,000 capacity indoor/roofed stadium - proper state of the art and something different to anything else in the country, yet not making existing grounds (and previous investment) redundant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 02:26:28 PM
wasnt there plans of the redevelopment in the irish news in the not so distant past? i think it included a walk way to a carpark right beside the M1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 09, 2010, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 11:44:05 AM
But you'll be stuck in traffic no matter where the match is. You won't be out of Casement in 10 minutes either.

I think I've just has a déjà vu moment!!   ::)

I'm very much open to correction on this, but as I recall, when mention was made of the £50 million available to do up Casement, there was alos talk that this was only half the investment needed, and that the idea was to invest something like £100 million? Obviously the remainder will have to be found by the Ulster Council elsewhere - anyone else recall this, or is it a figment of my imagination?   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 02:26:28 PM
wasnt there plans of the redevelopment in the irish news in the not so distant past? i think it included a walk way to a carpark right beside the M1
Yeah, there were plans for a footbridge across the M1 to a car park at Musgrave. I'd assume all traffic would still come off at the Stockman's Lane junction if that was to happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 04:23:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 02:26:28 PM
wasnt there plans of the redevelopment in the irish news in the not so distant past? i think it included a walk way to a carpark right beside the M1
Yeah, there were plans for a footbridge across the M1 to a car park at Musgrave. I'd assume all traffic would still come off at the Stockman's Lane junction if that was to happen.

anyone got a link to these plans? would love another look at them

would be great to get one of the best stadias on the island in belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2010, 08:35:42 PM
Why are people being so dismissive of the idea of a stadium in West Belfast having non-sports use in addition to hosting games? Are they aware that there are hotels and conference centres in Belfast? Are they aware that Belfast has a bustling retail trade? Are they aware that West Belfast could use a bit of commercial development like this? (Psst! They have museums and a university in Belfast too!) And to answer someone's question, yes, I have been to Casement. Many times.

The argument about access seems to be that putting 35,000 people into a single location is going to make it hard for them all to get in and out, therefore Casement is a bad choice. Well how, pray tell, is that different from any other location for a stadium?  It doesn't matter where you put the thing, access is always going to be tricky.  Even if you put it out in the middle of nowhere at the atmosphere-free Maze site you'd have the same problem. No matter how many access/egress points you put in, it's going to take a while to get back onto the road.

One more thing. What's the big rush? Does anyone here ever go to a major match and expect to be able to jump in the car and speed off without any delays? Is it really such a big deal that you have to wait a while?

Personally, anytime I go to an AI final I park in that college nearby.  After the match we take a walk down O'Connell St and have a bite to eat in the Kylemore Cafe.  By the time we saunter back up to the college most of the rest of the match traffic is long gone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2010, 06:04:05 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2010, 10:11:26 AM
Quote from: mrgaa1 on October 09, 2010, 09:13:09 AM
Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports. 

No way.


1. Maze is in an area which would be mostly hostile to GAA fans - you think the clampers around Croke are bad? You'd have some fun returning to a row of cars with windows out.

2. The pitch sizes of the 3 sports are incompatible - as was clearly seen by the lack of atmosphere at Croke for all games bar the rugby v England and France.

3. There are no facilities at the maze. Such facilities would be built solely for use on match days, and would never be able to survive the rest of the year. Leading to temporary stuff which would be rubbish.

4. It would be an all-seater stadium. I do not want an all seater stadium. I am sure many, many others are of the same opinion.

5. The crowds for an Ulster final far outweigh the crowds for Ulster or Norn Iron games, tickets were available for Ravenhill last night as late as wednesday, maybe even at the gate. That is a ~15K capacity stadium which was not full for a Heineken cup game. Norn Iron, well.... I dunno what kinda numbers they would get - hard to judge based on Windsor.

6. There would be no social scene around the Maze. Many have their pre and post game social arrangements for Casement, Clones, Ravenhill or Windsor. Such a thing simply wouldn't be possible at an isolated stadium built in the middle of nowhere.
That's the plan for Casement too.

I know... but I'm bitching about that too  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orangemac on October 11, 2010, 11:12:45 PM
Seems like a complete waste of money.

How many times has Casement been full in the last 10 years?

How many times a year would an all seater be full?

There is £50m earmarked for GAA stadia. Could the GAA not cut a deal that it would get £40/£45 million and allocate this to clubs throughout Ulster?

The last thing we need is another white elephant like the Gaelic Grounds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
Quote from: Orangemac on October 11, 2010, 11:12:45 PM
Seems like a complete waste of money.

How many times has Casement been full in the last 10 years?

How many times a year would an all seater be full?

There is £50m earmarked for GAA stadia. Could the GAA not cut a deal that it would get £40/£45 million and allocate this to clubs throughout Ulster?

The last thing we need is another white elephant like the Gaelic Grounds.
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 11, 2010, 11:30:50 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I give up ardmhachaabu, it's like talking to a brick wall!  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:32:49 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 11, 2010, 11:30:50 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I give up ardmhachaabu, it's like talking to a brick wall!  :D
You are telling me!  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 11, 2010, 11:36:45 PM
There's no harm in debating the merits of it though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 13, 2010, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I dunno.

Knowing the weasel words of politicans, there are probably exceptions and loopholes.

After all, if an hotel/conf centre were to be built - linking that to the act of building a stand to view a football match is tenuous!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ExiledGael on October 13, 2010, 06:02:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 13, 2010, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I dunno.

Knowing the weasel words of politicans, there are probably exceptions and loopholes.


How long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
QuoteHow long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..

Sure wasn't Casement a knight of the British Empire.

in any case the people who attend Casement Park also pay taxes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 13, 2010, 07:16:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
QuoteHow long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..

Sure wasn't Casement a knight of the British Empire.

in any case the people who attend Casement Park also pay taxes.

f**k 'em.


If they wanna go down that road, then I'm sure they'll be happy to get Liverpool (and a few others) to rename the Spion Kop.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 14, 2010, 10:31:55 AM
QuoteQuote
How long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..

Sure wasn't Casement a knight of the British Empire.

right enough they can't argue about the name sir roger  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pointlad on October 14, 2010, 04:48:04 PM
Theres all this talk about funds being short, and all off a sudden this grant has appeared. As you may be aware Casement only has a new Stadium Control Tower built just over a year. What will happen to this if the new stadium gets the go ahead? Many thousands being wasted for no reason. The Ulster GAA board should of had a bit of logic before building this if they knew the new stadium was in the pipeline. The new Control Room is magnificent according to the links below :

http://vimeo.com/5319563

http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/news/pilkington+watches+over+casement+park.htm
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2010, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: pointlad on October 14, 2010, 04:48:04 PM
Theres all this talk about funds being short, and all off a sudden this grant has appeared. As you may be aware Casement only has a new Stadium Control Tower built just over a year. What will happen to this if the new stadium gets the go ahead? Many thousands being wasted for no reason. The Ulster GAA board should of had a bit of logic before building this if they knew the new stadium was in the pipeline. The new Control Room is magnificent according to the links below :

http://vimeo.com/5319563

http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/news/pilkington+watches+over+casement+park.htm
Buttons in comparison to £50m though. And i'd imagine that even if it all goes ahead, it will be at least 5 years before a new stadium would be in use.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 14, 2010, 09:39:15 PM
Quote from: pointlad on October 14, 2010, 04:48:04 PM
Theres all this talk about funds being short, and all off a sudden this grant has appeared. As you may be aware Casement only has a new Stadium Control Tower built just over a year. What will happen to this if the new stadium gets the go ahead? Many thousands being wasted for no reason. The Ulster GAA board should of had a bit of logic before building this if they knew the new stadium was in the pipeline. The new Control Room is magnificent according to the links below :

http://vimeo.com/5319563

http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/news/pilkington+watches+over+casement+park.htm

Did you actually read the Pilkington article you linked to?
It clearly states that the control tower was " funded under Sport Northern Ireland's Stadia Safety Program. " If there were thousands wasted, they weren't the GAA's.

And again, a few thousand is nothing compared to £50 million, if Nelson can ever bring himself to give it to us. Will his fear of NI being forced to play abroad overcome his loathing of the GAA?

I take it there's no outline plans ready for Casement yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orangemac on October 14, 2010, 10:54:06 PM
Could we not just throw some new toilets and some bigger dugouts and spend the rest elsewhere?

It's not like Nelson or Tom Elliott will ever be there to see what work has went on ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 27, 2010, 02:47:56 PM
Quote from: nintythree on October 20, 2010, 11:16:16 PM
Is this project under threat from today's spending review announced by the British Government?

Probably, but moving on.....

We now have a little more detail on the plans for Casement. Noteworthy that it's planned to be 80% covered seating. I'd assume that the other 20% (8000 people ) will be standing. Sitting in the rain has got to be the most unpleasant way to watch a match and I'd hope the architects would reflect that.

From the Andytown News:

"the plan would involve demolishing the Casement Park stadium and building, on the same site, a new stadium which, in contrast to the existing 32,300 capacity, would accommodate maximum spectator capacity of 40,000.

The new Casement Park stadium would have 80 per cent covered seating and would include about 2,000 premium seats, 580 corporate seats and car parking facilities.

http://www.belfastmedia.com/features_article.php?ID=1343
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 27, 2010, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: nintythree on October 27, 2010, 10:26:22 PM
We could here something very soon on this issue, hopefully!


whats your source?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2010, 10:54:42 PM
I  don't see how this can go ahead in the times that are in it, with layoffs in the public sector. The stadia can do another while until times are better and if the IFA don't like that then they can collect some money themselves to do up Windsor Pk.
Title: Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
Post by: snatter on October 29, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
Quote from: nintythree on October 29, 2010, 01:13:14 AM
The green light may only be 3 weeks away. Days really!

perhaps,  but just watch Poots and co throwing every possible delay against it at the planning stage.
For an insight, just look at how they delayed a decision for the Bryansford, County Down application.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
I think people are missing the point of this discussion. The money is going to Casement end of story. What we should be discussing is what approach the GAA will take.

Will they do the right thing and build a top class stadium capable of hosting a wide range of events(small version of croke park)?
50 million is the amount from Stormont but several papers in the past have mentioned a budget of 100million for the stadium. If this was indeed the money involved then the potential is huge. To quote one of the above bloggers the stadium would be 40000 with 32000 seats and 8000 terrace - this is ideal. All those moaning about standing - well guess what you stand at the terrace, the vast majority of people like to sit and have the option to stand when they want! I would like to think that the whole stadium is roofed as the GAA seem to think Ireland is in the tropics and that it never rains - we need covered stadia even the terrace. The terrace should also be easily fitted with temporary seating if needed.
If done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
Another argument against the development is that there is no room around the stadium - you can say that about anywhere - look at the previous aerial shots of Croke - pretty tight fit. Most of the people oppossed to this development were probably against the upgrade of Croke or Lansdowne also and now look at the facilities there - pretty impressive not to mention the knock on effect such developments have on the local area and certainly West Belfast is crying out for investment

My greatest fear is the GAA will do the half hearted effort they have done many times  in the past. Take a look at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick for a modern stadium it looks like it was built in the 1920's not to mention again the fact that it has no cover at all - at least put a simple roof on - even somethng like the new RDS stand is better than nothing.
A similar GAA project at the moment is the new Pairc ui chaoimh. That project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -  :-[

Lets hope we have the stadium we need/deserve - interesting times ahead!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2010, 11:41:56 AM
QuoteIf done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

QuoteThat project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -


Reality sometimes imposes on people and Páirc Uí Chaoimh is going to get more big games than Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on November 03, 2010, 11:51:09 AM
Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself

Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.

It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thewanderer on November 03, 2010, 02:22:30 PM
it wouldnt work, think of the many top of the range cars that would be stolen during a game ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2010, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
You'd be wrong. Parts of Donegal are a good 3 hours from Belfast.

As for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

And as for 'park and ride' - as i've said before, you can do that anywhere if people are willing to use it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2010, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
QuoteIs there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?
No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself
It might make financial sense for the stadium to have the All Ireland final there, but it's not going to happen. The GAA have to be realistic about the potential for the stadium's use.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
QuoteConcert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.
Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades
Are you familiar with Belfast at all. The Shankill is very close to the mixed city centre area. I don't know how many people would want to head there for a concert. Just because one area is close to another means nothing.
Not a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
QuoteUlster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.
It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.
I'd imagine Ulster rugby would rather relocate to Lansdowne Rd that Andersonstown Rd.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: mentor on November 03, 2010, 11:28:23 PM
Casement will be some stadium when a decision is taken to fonally revamp it. A perfect easily accessible venue for the Ulster final in future years. All nine county grounds in Ulster look great, I think Ulster may actually be the most advanced province in terms of ground development. We have the new Athletics Ground ready in early 2011 and work ongoing at Newry's Pairc Esler changing rooms which will be finished by xmas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteIs there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?


Yes there is. The GAA have another stadium in Dublin, its called Croke Park. They made it available to other users when needed when the FAI/IRFU made it known that they would be interested. They have since made no secret of the fact that it would be available if they needed it again, even though the Aviva is now complete.

Surely this is a 'shred' of evidence that the GAA would allow similar use of their stadium in Belfast?

QuoteNot a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

That's not a fact, its your opinion

QuoteAs for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

Where are your figures to back this up? I live in this city and I am the sort of person that goes to GAA games. I'd say there are far more GAA members within 30mins of Belfast than there are within 30mins of Clones
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on November 04, 2010, 03:41:59 PM
You have just bought a brand new BMW Z4 (dream on); would you park it in West Belfast while you went to a match or a concert?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 04:09:44 PM
QuoteYou have just bought a brand new BMW Z4 (dream on); would you park it in West Belfast while you went to a match or a concert?
No. I'd park it in one of the car parks on the Boucher road that are stewarded on match day, as it would be easier to get away.

However I did park my new car on the Falls last night for a few hours and when i came back it was still there! Not everyone in west Belfast is a car thief!
I live in Malone and my housemate had his wingmirrors kicked off last week - couldn't have been the local kids though, the westies must have walked over ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on November 04, 2010, 05:17:58 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on November 04, 2010, 03:41:59 PM
You have just bought a brand new BMW Z4 (dream on); would you park it in West Belfast while you went to a match or a concert?

Yep - ball of scrap.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
Ha ha reading most of these posts you would think everyone in west belfast was a hood. I never knew GAA supporters to be so snobish. Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra! ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2010, 06:07:12 PM
QuoteScrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra!

Gaa supporters are even thinner on the ground in Cultra than West Belfast, even if your car is safer there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 06:46:20 PM
All joking aside if casement is developed it will hopefully awake the sleeping giant that is Antrim and get the locals behind the antrim football team - a lot easier to go to Casement for a GAA match than the round trip to parkhead every other week to watch Celtic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteIs there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?
Yes there is. The GAA have another stadium in Dublin, its called Croke Park. They made it available to other users when needed when the FAI/IRFU made it known that they would be interested. They have since made no secret of the fact that it would be available if they needed it again, even though the Aviva is now complete.

Surely this is a 'shred' of evidence that the GAA would allow similar use of their stadium in Belfast?
I'm not sure if you're quoting me or not (hit the 'insert quote' link on the post you're quoting).
Croke Park may well allow Casement to be used for non-GAA events. But there's no evidence that any of the potential users would be interested. I can't see the IFA or Ulster Rugby being interested.

Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteNot a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

That's not a fact, its your opinion
And? What's your basis for saying they would use it? They haven't used it to date.
I don't think a promoter would risk losing a proportion of their customers when they can continue to use the King's Hall, Botanic Gardens, Ward Park, Giant's Park etc.

Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteAs for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

Where are your figures to back this up? I live in this city and I am the sort of person that goes to GAA games. I'd say there are far more GAA members within 30mins of Belfast than there are within 30mins of Clones
I'm basing it on the crowds i've seen at games in Casement and where they come from.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2010, 06:07:12 PM
QuoteScrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra!

Gaa supporters are even thinner on the ground in Cultra than West Belfast, even if your car is safer there.
They would rather have an incinerator in Cultra!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on November 05, 2010, 10:05:58 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteIs there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?
Yes there is. The GAA have another stadium in Dublin, its called Croke Park. They made it available to other users when needed when the FAI/IRFU made it known that they would be interested. They have since made no secret of the fact that it would be available if they needed it again, even though the Aviva is now complete.

Surely this is a 'shred' of evidence that the GAA would allow similar use of their stadium in Belfast?
I'm not sure if you're quoting me or not (hit the 'insert quote' link on the post you're quoting).
Croke Park may well allow Casement to be used for non-GAA events. But there's no evidence that any of the potential users would be interested. I can't see the IFA or Ulster Rugby being interested.

Sorry i wasn't quoting you there, but

There were 2 questions in that statement;
1.   is there a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this
2.   Is there a shred of evidence that any of the users would want it?

I was answering the first bit.
At the moment its very unlikely that the Ulster Rugby or the IFA would be interested in using it, especially with their own developments in the pipeline, but 10-20 years from now you never know how things will have progressed here.
I do however think that concert promoters may be interested, depending on the atmosphere etc that could be created.

Quote from: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 07:13:32 PM

Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteNot a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

That's not a fact, its your opinion
And? What's your basis for saying they would use it? They haven't used it to date.
I don't think a promoter would risk losing a proportion of their customers when they can continue to use the King's Hall, Botanic Gardens, Ward Park, Giant's Park etc.

No, obviously they haven't used it to date. But surely if the place is developed into a modem fit for purpose venue, as suggested by a previous poster, then surely it has the potential to host such events? The only argument against this is its location within Belfast. There are plenty of examples of other such venues on the outskirts of cities in an area that doesn't have a good name. Drumcondra wouldn't have the best name for itself.
Obviously many from the unionist community still wouldn't be keen on going to a gig in west Belfast, and there are a number of alternative neutral sites available, but there is no need to just totally rule out the new casement as a potential venue.

Quote from: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 07:13:32 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
QuoteAs for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

Where are your figures to back this up? I live in this city and I am the sort of person that goes to GAA games. I'd say there are far more GAA members within 30mins of Belfast than there are within 30mins of Clones
I'm basing it on the crowds i've seen at games in Casement and where they come from.
How do you know where they come from? Just because me, and thousands like me, were in Casement Park this summer with Tyrone jerseys on us, doesn't mean we came up the M1 to watch the game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 03, 2010, 03:55:46 PM
This money could be used to build a stadium with a roof on it.

this would allieviate the need to postpone major games at this time of year, such as the ulster final (2 weeks in a row).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 03, 2010, 05:16:19 PM
The stadium needs a roof campaign starts here!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 04, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: The Worker on December 03, 2010, 03:55:46 PM
This money could be used to build a stadium with a roof on it.

this would allieviate the need to postpone major games at this time of year, such as the ulster final (2 weeks in a row).
Agreed. c20,000 capacity with a roof would be a far better use of resources than another massive stadium that might be full once a year, whilst similar stadia lie empty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 04, 2010, 04:26:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
Quote from: The Worker on December 03, 2010, 03:55:46 PM
This money could be used to build a stadium with a roof on it.

this would allieviate the need to postpone major games at this time of year, such as the ulster final (2 weeks in a row).
Agreed. c20,000 capacity with a roof would be a far better use of resources than another massive stadium that might be full once a year, whilst similar stadia lie empty.

Exactly. I would love to attend a gaa match within a stadium with a closed roof. Imagine the atmosphere at an ulster final etc.

perhaps a 25,000 stadium with a roof would be ideal. It may be an idea to have a section which can be easily converted to terracing, which would allow up to another 5-10k attend should the occasion arise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2010, 04:50:11 PM
A roof would be expensive and hard to justify unless you are willing to allow other events there, including sports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 04, 2010, 04:51:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2010, 04:50:11 PM
A roof would be expensive and hard to justify unless you are willing to allow other events there, including sports.

not really when the money is there to spend and there is a need for it in this country.

Also- why not have other events there? peter kay woud fill it surely :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 04, 2010, 05:13:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2010, 04:50:11 PM
A roof would be expensive and hard to justify unless you are willing to allow other events there, including sports.
The assumption would be that you could build a smaller capacity venue with a roof for the same price as a 40,000 capacity without one.

I don't know why this would be harder to justify than the current proposals. In fact, given that a covered venue is something that we don't have anywhere else in the country, this should be much easier to justify.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on December 05, 2010, 11:32:56 AM
Roof?
do you not think undersoil heating would be cheaper.
Its an outdoor game, personally i would not be a fan of covered stadiums, weather conditions are part of the game imo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 05, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
Quote from: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

the same thing that happens in rugby

the roof wouldnt have to be used in all conditions, plus it adds to the value of the stadium for venue hire etc.

if the moneys there to be spent, it may as well be spent a stadium which we could put to use as an association.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on December 05, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2010, 08:20:16 PM
A GAA Stadium with a roof   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wait till 1st April and try again  ;)

If this is a serious suggestion then God help us all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 10, 2010, 10:22:14 AM
I am totally in support of Casement being redeveloped but a roof is a non-starter. The Millenium stadium is amazing but a GAA pitch is bigger and Im sure with a larger roof the costs will be exponential. The GAA sure cant even be bothered to place a standard roof on their modern stadia to cover the spectators ,(sports ground limerick for example) nevermind covering the whole playing surface as well.
If it was to happen the capacity would need to be on a power with croke park otherwise the roof would be too low and I would guess such a stadium would cost in todays money about a billion not 100 million rumoured for Casement so sorry lads forget it!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 10, 2010, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.

Aye, but Graham Clarke hasn't.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on December 10, 2010, 11:35:56 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 10, 2010, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.

Aye, but Graham Clarke hasn't.

In future ulster club hurling finals, magic wouldn't have to shake the snow of it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 10, 2010, 11:50:08 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 10, 2010, 11:35:56 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 10, 2010, 10:37:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on December 05, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.

Aye, but Graham Clarke hasn't.

In future ulster club hurling finals, magic wouldn't have to shake the snow of it

just as well big Magic is good at the snooker. He'd be able to work out the angle the ball will rebound off the roof from one of Graham's scuds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 10, 2010, 12:14:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre)

(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/images/dome/basics/sky2_dome_1.jpg)

i am quite sure there have been a number of games played here over the years with the roof closed.  Decent shout of an idea but would have to be partially funded by opening the place up to other events
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 14, 2010, 10:17:51 AM
be careful what you wish for!!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/ (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 14, 2010, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 14, 2010, 10:17:51 AM
be careful what you wish for!!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/ (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/)
I spotted that. It had an 'inflatable' roof. Surely that could be a much more affordable option to a rigid structure?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2010, 07:34:13 PM
QuoteI spotted that. It had an 'inflatable' roof.

A roof is only effective if the shower aren't inside it, mostly likely acting as stewards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on December 15, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
Has funding for Casement now been approved following Sammy's budget speech?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Mhic Easmuint on December 15, 2010, 03:23:28 PM
It appears to be alright!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 15, 2010, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: aontroim on December 15, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
Has funding for Casement now been approved following Sammy's budget speech?

He just said that Stadia Projects have got the go-ahead. No details.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 15, 2010, 05:44:19 PM
Hopefully this work will be started in the next 12 months!

would be great to see a bit of construction work in the city!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on December 15, 2010, 09:47:27 PM
http://www.antrimgaa.net/news/details/?id=2776

ULSTER COUNCIL GAA
Comhairle Uladh CLG

PRESS RELEASE

The Ulster Council GAA welcomes the draft budget statement made on Wednesday by the Minister for Finance and Personnel which includes a commitment by the Executive for a capital envelope for regional sports stadia development. This underlines the existing commitment made by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on the 8th April 2009 to meet the strategic needs of the three largest governing bodies of sport, namely Ulster GAA, IFA and Ulster Rugby.
Ulster GAA now looks forward to the conclusion of the draft budget consultation process and are hopeful of a positive response regarding regional stadia development funding so that Ulster GAA Stadium Project Board  can progress with its plans for the redevelopment of Casement Park Stadium in Belfast.

Ulster Council GAA aims to meet its strategic requirements first indentified in the GAA's "Enhancing Community Identity Report" in 2002 by providing a stadium of 40,000 capacity  that will be  an all seated stadium.

The President of Ulster Council GAA, Aogan O Fearghail commenting on the budget announcement said:

"The Ulster Council is pleased that after several years of work by the Stadium Project Board led by both Tom Daly as Chairman and Danny Murphy as Provincial Director, we now have a reasonable level of commitment around the future funding for the Casement Park project due to the announcement made in yesterday's draft budget statement.

The redevelopment of Casement Park will have major economic, regeneration and social benefits for the entire community. Sport makes a strong social and economic contribution to society in areas such as the promotion of tourism, health and wellbeing, community development, social capital and cohesion and contribute to good relations. This project is another example of the positive role that sport has to play in the wider community. It is envisaged that the overall project costs for the Casement Park redevelopment will be in the region of £100m with significant investment coming from both the GAA and Government. 

I am grateful to all of those who have made a contribution to this ongoing process and would highlight the continuing input from officials of both the Antrim County Committee GAA and the Central Council GAA who have been supporting the Ulster Council  in this project.

I recognise the work undertaken by government officials, bodies and departments in this process, namely OFMDFM (Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister) Strategic Investment Board, Department of Culture Arts and Leisure and Sport NI. I would also thank the many consultants and advisers who have provided support in this initial stage of the  process: Gilroy McMahon Architects (Des McMahon and Deirdre Lennon), Peter Quinn Consultancy Services (Barry McGurgan), Cunnane Stratton Reynolds (Eamonn Prenter) and Sammon Surveyors (Brian Conway).   

The Stadium Project Board  will now continue its planning and consultation work alongside the three stadium sub-groups namely: Finance and Business Planning subgroup, Planning, Design and Development sub-group and Community Relations and Public Relations sub-group" and we look forward to the completion of the budget consultation process and the approval of the Assembly's budget 2011-2015 in February 2011".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SLIGONIAN on December 16, 2010, 01:13:00 PM
Best of luck with this development, some dosh, great for GAA, and Ulster and Antrim and Belfast ecomony. Look forward to visiting it someday.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on December 20, 2010, 12:42:22 PM
What's the current capacity of Casement?

I'm in no way begrudging of it, in fact its good to see investment. The only issue I have is that of traffic. The area cant handle the traffic currently on the occassion of a big match. How will they cope with increased capacity?
there is also the risk that unless there is a near capacity crowd, the atmosphere is dull...
All that being said, I hope it all comes off I just hope there's a bit of forward planning for traffic control.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Slicker on December 21, 2010, 11:51:21 AM
Would be great to see this stadium get the go ahead and provide a different option for big games in the futre.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 12:13:59 PM
Would under pitch heating be including? After the delayed games this winter, I'm sure no-one would want a repeat of this in the future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: StGallsGAA on December 21, 2010, 12:53:20 PM
Under-soil heating doesn't remove the risk factor for travelling fans which should always be the primary concern, as opposed to the playing surface.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on December 21, 2010, 12:53:20 PM
Under-soil heating doesn't remove the risk factor for travelling fans which should always be the primary concern, as opposed to the playing surface.

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. Anyway, it would be more dangerous driving to Clones on them wee back roads.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on December 21, 2010, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes

It was only installed for the rugby and soccer. There's really no need for it anymore.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on December 21, 2010, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes

It was only installed for the rugby and soccer. There's really no need for it anymore.

Still there and can become useful in the future, if heavy snow becomes a regular occurance in the future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
How much would it cost?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
How much would it cost?

I don't know. Do you?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
How much would it cost?

I don't know. Do you?
No. Although i'd assume it isn't cheap. If it was, i'd imagine it would be fairly common.

I'm also working on the basis that:
CP didn't feel it necessary to install it during their upgrade;
It was installed to facilitate other sports; and
Our games are played primarily in the summer.

Added to that, games have been called off due to road conditions even where the pitch might be playable. I've seen this on the news for English soccer games too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
The roof would keep out snow and rain, the latter being fairly common throughout the year. A roof would also be much more of a benefit for non-sports use of a stadium that under-soil heating.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:45:13 PM
We'll agree to disagree then  :P

We'd be here all day if we kept this up  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 21, 2010, 05:54:14 PM
I think a roof should be brought into deep consideration during the planning stage of the redevelopment of Casement park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 21, 2010, 08:59:59 PM
Personally think its crazy spending so much on 1 stadium.

A central Ulster stadium with several training fields would be better built about south tyrone. In that location it would be on several key transport networks and equa distance to the majority of Ulster counties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 21, 2010, 09:47:03 PM
The format of the stadium will fall into place. The crux of any redevelopment is going to revolve around access and parking. Easier said than done in residential Andytown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 21, 2010, 10:39:30 PM
The argument that the Ulster final should not be taken out of Clones is an absolute nonsense. Why a stadium was ever built in Clones was crazy anyway... a clear case of gepgraphical inertia in that there was a big hill in Clones, it could hold a big crowd back in the stone ages... so lets retain it and put our stadium there. Regardless of the fact that Clones town is a dump, poor road access, a nightmare to get out of (especially when you loose!) and is so bad that it puts people off going!

I'm a Donegal man living in Sligo and I would travel to Casement any day of the week over Clones. There is also the benefit of making a weekend of it in Belfast for a big game. The best thing about Clones is the "Slán abhaile" sign.

I look forward to the re-development of Casement, especially if it means I never have to go to Clones again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 22, 2010, 12:02:21 AM
Quote from: ck on December 21, 2010, 10:39:30 PM
The argument that the Ulster final should not be taken out of Clones is an absolute nonsense. Why a stadium was ever built in Clones was crazy anyway... a clear case of gepgraphical inertia in that there was a big hill in Clones, it could hold a big crowd back in the stone ages... so lets retain it and put our stadium there. Regardless of the fact that Clones town is a dump, poor road access, a nightmare to get out of (especially when you loose!) and is so bad that it puts people off going!

I'm a Donegal man living in Sligo and I would travel to Casement any day of the week over Clones. There is also the benefit of making a weekend of it in Belfast for a big game. The best thing about Clones is the "Slán abhaile" sign.

I look forward to the re-development of Casement, especially if it means I never have to go to Clones again.

are you serious??? clones is a great town for the ulster final. its that sh1t ordinarily that when the ulster final arrives it is transformed into a great landscape of colour and banter.
an ulster final in belfast would get lost. somehting that happened when the ulster final sold out to croke park a number of years back. Theres no craic outside casement at all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Simon Says on December 22, 2010, 02:16:32 PM
It will be a great arena for GAA, plus alot of people from non-gaa backgrounds will want to go watch games in such a stadium on there doorsteps, it will be great for west belfast also, after coming out of 30 years of conflict also, something that they can be proud of.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 22, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
I take what you are saying Donelli but one big hill up to a major stadium is mental. Yeah the colour is great but the town is an absolute kip and the Ulster final brightens it up but a new stadium at Casement would add to the attraction of the GAA. Major finals should be in major cities... not some hole in the middle of no-where.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 23, 2010, 09:26:45 AM
Quote from: ck on December 22, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
I take what you are saying Donelli but one big hill up to a major stadium is mental. Yeah the colour is great but the town is an absolute kip and the Ulster final brightens it up but a new stadium at Casement would add to the attraction of the GAA. Major finals should be in major cities... not some hole in the middle of no-where.

so you think the munster hurling finals should be played in Cork instead of Thurles??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2010, 11:30:55 AM
Thurles is great, party atmosphere with plenty of bars and able to hold big crowds.

I must say we had a ball at the Ulster final (In Clones) when Antrim got there. I suppose the novelty factor played in and we didn't really care about the 3 hour journey home and delays on the way down (plenty of drink) but if i were from a county that had to go there regularly say like Tyrone Armagh (and they are close) I'd be pissed off.

As for Casement getting the new build, sure its money given by the Gov and it will hardly go anywhere else. I'm sure if Clones ask the Irish goverment nicely, they will get the same :P
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
What has the 1980s got to do with it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2010, 01:10:31 PM
QuoteWhat has the 1980s got to do with it?

That's when the GAA started in Donegal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Simon Says on December 23, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
kids within the city will see the huge stadium, it will drive kids into GAA clubs as a childs mindset of " i would love to play there one day", instead of the attractions of local soccer clubs. it can only boost the influx in the amount of kids from grass roots level to stick with the GAA sports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 02:43:27 PM
Quote from: Simon Says on December 23, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
kids within the city will see the huge stadium, it will drive kids into GAA clubs as a childs mindset of " i would love to play there one day", instead of the attractions of local soccer clubs. it can only boost the influx in the amount of kids from grass roots level to stick with the GAA sports.
Has this happened in inner-city Dublin?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 05:46:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
What has the 1980s got to do with it?

I didnt realise I would have to explain what the 1980's had to do with Clones... and you a Monaghan man Maguire!
The decision to re-develop Clones was taken in the 1980's.. at a time when the border areas were economically deprived. I'm not saying much has changed in that resepct but Clones was a poor choice even back then. Casement was always a better long term option.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 08:15:26 PM
Quote from: ck on December 23, 2010, 05:46:09 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
What has the 1980s got to do with it?

I didnt realise I would have to explain what the 1980's had to do with Clones... and you a Monaghan man Maguire!
The decision to re-develop Clones was taken in the 1980's.. at a time when the border areas were economically deprived. I'm not saying much has changed in that resepct but Clones was a poor choice even back then. Casement was always a better long term option.
Clones had been the venue for the Ulster Final well before the most recent development. There was no increase in capacity, just upgrading the standard, the same as with every county ground in the province.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:43:44 PM

Clones had been the venue for the Ulster Final well before the most recent development. There was no increase in capacity, just upgrading the standard, the same as with every county ground in the province.
[/quote]

Nobody said that Clones wasnt the Ulster final venue previous to the redevelopment! My point is that it was selcted for substantial upgrade as Ulsters premier ground, which imo was totally wrong. As for it being upgraded the same as every other county, absolute nonsense!!! Clones was hand picked as a provincial ground and received funding to reflect this. County grounds are developed by the counties with support funding with much less development than Clones received. For me, Clones is the best ground in Ulster by far. It's the town and the infrastructure around it that lets it down. It should never have been selected for upgrade over Casement or Omagh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2010, 11:08:38 PM
Clones wasn't chosen over other grounds in the 1980s, it was already long the major venue in Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 24, 2010, 12:18:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2010, 11:08:38 PM
Clones wasn't chosen over other grounds in the 1980s, it was already long the major venue in Ulster.

Yes it was! Yes it was the existing major venue however when funding became available major debate ensued as to how best it could be spent. Clones was selected and status quo maintained. The debate at the time was that Casement was a better long term option to develop and the only reason Clones was in the mix was because it was the existing provincial ground, not because it was the best choice! Tax was also a consideration at the time.
There was a serious lack of forsight at that time in my opinion and Clones was developed over other grounds based on very small minded rationale.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 24, 2010, 12:37:27 PM
I hadn't thought about it until another poster mentioned it, but the atmosphere at Clones is something else. I'm not sure whether I would prefer the convenience of Casement to the craic in Clones.
Title: Taobh Amuigh
Post by: drici on December 30, 2010, 12:48:53 AM
(http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00419/TROUBLES_women_11_419295s.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 09, 2011, 07:06:12 PM
A roof on Casement could have saved a few games today. Double-header + indoor stadium + well marketed = 15-20,000 at a McKenna Cup tie.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Big Puff on March 10, 2011, 07:15:43 PM
Details of Government funding for the upgrading of Northern Ireland's three main sporting venues has been released.

The Irish Football Association receives £25m to upgrade Windsor Park plus £36m to improve some other stadia and set up a new national training centre.

The Ulster Council of the GAA will get a similar sum to help make Casement Park a 40,000 all-seated stadium.


There will be £14.7m to enable Ulster Rugby to build new and upgrade existing stands at Ravenhill.

It is believed Ulster have been allocated almost £15m which will be released in stages and go towards building a new stand at the Cregagh Road end and a replacement of the old stand.

NI sports minister Nelson McCausland said the development would benefit health, tourism, business and the overall Northern Ireland economy.

He said it would help attract major sporting events to Northern Ireland.

President of the Irish FA, Jim Shaw, welcomed the cash injection.

"It is a privilege to be part of a legacy that will remain in Northern Ireland for years to come."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 10, 2011, 07:20:15 PM
McCausland has done a good deal for soccer. Originally they were only getting half of what the GAA were due. Not sure how he can justify them getting money for other grounds as well. Especially rough on Rugby - Ulster gets similar crowds at Ravenhill to Norn Iron at Windsor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 10, 2011, 10:33:49 PM
wtf is this extra £36 million to soccer about?
How can their pathetic LOI attendances justify this amount?
Yet again the leeches get preferential treatment well out of proportion to the crowds they attract.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on March 10, 2011, 10:43:34 PM
Great to see Casement being transformed into an all-seater 40,000 seater. Agree with sentiments above, the rugby seem to have lost out slightly compared to soccer. The 3 men and their dog will now have nice facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on March 11, 2011, 11:34:54 AM
Talking to a few rugby lads in work today and they are raging about this. How that bigot McCausland can justify giving that much to soccer is beyond even the most cynical especially when rugby gets so little and other sports get nothing (athletics were looking a million to upgrade tracks at the Mary Peters). The worst about it as we all know, given the past form of the IFA, a fair chunk of that money will be pissed up a wall somewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DoireGael on March 11, 2011, 11:45:54 AM
Quote from: Ulick on March 11, 2011, 11:34:54 AM
Talking to a few rugby lads in work today and they are raging about this. How that bigot McCausland can justify giving that much to soccer is beyond even the most cynical especially when rugby gets so little and other sports get nothing (athletics were looking a million to upgrade tracks at the Mary Peters). The worst about it as we all know, given the past form of the IFA, a fair chunk of that money will be pissed up a wall somewhere.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 15, 2011, 02:23:26 PM
What would you expect from this small minded bigot, ah well, it will enable the little Englanders who follow Norn Iron to belt out the Billy Boys, GSTQ and Rule Britannia in comfort.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: amallon on March 15, 2011, 07:30:01 PM
Has work started in Casement? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2011, 08:10:15 PM
Aye the brickies haven't stopped!! Seen a bulldozer heading towards Casement but it ended up in Tyrone at a service station ATM!!

Big Jim has been buying pints all week in the lounge and all the spectators on Sunday were given a tenner each for their troubles!!

Casement won't get anything done for a while yet, Think we will make a bid for the stand ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on March 15, 2011, 10:11:01 PM
Quote from: amallon on March 15, 2011, 07:30:01 PM
Has work started in Casement?

Nobody works in Andytown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 15, 2011, 10:16:46 PM
Pay them to toss the place-dump of a groud with no atmosphere stuck in the middle a GAA free zone
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2011, 10:25:29 PM
Quote from: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 15, 2011, 10:16:46 PM
Pay them to toss the place-dump of a groud with no atmosphere stuck in the middle a GAA free zone

Yeah, How many Gaa clubs in Omagh?? in a two mile radius of Casement there are around 15 Gaa clubs minimum. as for the pitch, its a far better surface than Omagh's, atmosphere is made when there is a crowd.

Last time Tyrone played at Casement there was plenty of atmosphere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 15, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
Will wait for the census returns for a more accurate quota on the respective populations of Omagh and Belfast- however Omagh, with a population of c.20000 (4 football clubs) equates more than favourably with Belfast and its population of c.250000 and its 15 clubs- Quick question-'when was the last time Tyrone togged out in the Casement changing rooms?'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 15, 2011, 11:13:30 PM
Who is the fourth football club in Omagh? Omagh St Endas, Drumragh, Killyclogher (although wouldn't like to be branded as being in Omagh!)...?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 16, 2011, 08:34:41 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 15, 2011, 11:13:30 PM
Who is the fourth football club in Omagh? Omagh St Endas, Drumragh, Killyclogher (although wouldn't like to be branded as being in Omagh!)...?
The Tatts also come into the jurisdiction of Omagh town stroke Drumragh Parish
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on March 16, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
Is there a time scale on the Casement development?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on March 16, 2011, 11:44:51 PM
According to a few rugby mates of mine the boyos down at ravenhill are looking to get one of their new stands started almost immediately and id say the soccer ones would want to get started soon enough before they realise they have made a mistake in giving the useless shar so much so I don't see why it should take the gaa so long unless the are struggling to get the extra 40 mill euro to finish it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on March 16, 2011, 11:55:16 PM
Surely if the government is giving out 60mill something like planning permission would already be sorted, sounds very amaturish.

Would the planning permission not come from a sub government department which would have been discussed at some stage before it was agreed that the money would go to casement and not another venue in the north. Would look very embarrassing if after giving out the cash it is blocked due to planning issues
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 16, 2011, 11:59:52 PM
Will they rename the ground?

After all, Sir Roger seemed a bit dodgy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on March 17, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
So they were given the cash without any guarantee that that could do anything with it. Sounds a bit ridiculous but wouldnt surprise me when the folks on the hill are involved.

If it were to be blocked it would be quite embarrassing for all concerned and would make the IFA look professional which is a feat in itself
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on March 17, 2011, 07:11:49 AM
With Casement been located in a residential area it will be years before any major work begins I'm sure the local residents will be putting up a hell of a fight.

The planning process is very expensive and to go ahead with it before the funding was granted wouldn't have been an option for the Ulster GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2011, 08:56:44 AM
Quote from: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 15, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
Will wait for the census returns for a more accurate quota on the respective populations of Omagh and Belfast- however Omagh, with a population of c.20000 (4 football clubs) equates more than favourably with Belfast and its population of c.250000 and its 15 clubs- Quick question-'when was the last time Tyrone togged out in the Casement changing rooms?'

so in Andytown there are 250000 people living there?? as for all the clubs in Belfast there are 22 in total. 60% percent of people living in Belfast would certainly not have any interest in playing Gaelic games then you have the minorities and the various sports on offer in a City.

My club has a membership of nearly  400 people. We have 3 senior teams playing football and two senior hurling teams. two division teams also. Followed by all of our juveniles who play both, we aren't alone as all the clubs in Belfast play both codes. Unlike like your single code clubs in Omagh. Gaelic games is alive and well in Belfast.

As for your daft question about the changing rooms, WTF!!! Omagh's changing rooms are not great either but Antrim will respect any county ground and not be snobs about it.

Back on the subject of the planning permission I also believe it will be really difficult because of the residents, and the disruption of the road/area due to the building of the stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on March 17, 2011, 12:12:18 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 17, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
So they were given the cash without any guarantee that that could do anything with it. Sounds a bit ridiculous but wouldnt surprise me when the folks on the hill are involved.

If it were to be blocked it would be quite embarrassing for all concerned and would make the IFA look professional which is a feat in itself
Surely Windsor Park will be facing the same problems, being so close to a residential area. IMO planning won't be as big an issue as some are making out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 22, 2011, 11:07:07 AM
Anyone know when we get to see some plans? Does anybody know when work will start or finish. The same goes for the new Pairc ui chaoimh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 22, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
There are grounds sitting aound the province with planning just waiting on the funding ::) That Nelson bastid cost us our development and we'd everything in place >:(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on March 22, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 22, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
There are grounds sitting aound the province with planning just waiting on the funding ::) That Nelson bastid cost us our development and we'd everything in place >:(
What is the situation now? Other phases not going ahead for forseeable future? It would sicken you the amount being spent on Windsor. And Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on March 22, 2011, 04:44:14 PM
I can't see the long term benefits of the 40k all seater stadium in belfast purely for GAA and I doubt very much in even medium term it will be a multi-sport stadium.

While its not GAA money largely building it, it will be GAA money maintaining it and this won't be cheap. It may be full once a year, possibly used two other times for Ulster Championship games with any meaningful attendence ie more than 15k.

Unless they planning a whole load of concerts (unrealistic bar 1/2 a year), it'll be a great white elephant and shows the GAA have learned nothing for its past mistakes in terms of Stadium. I suspect that once again the ego's within the GAA are coming to the fore and the Ulster boys want their own Croke Park to show off.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2011, 09:13:00 AM

Bingo

I think a 40000 seater stadium in Belfast has potential if marketed well and opened to other sports in the future (doubt that will happen soon but you never know). I agree with you though that the GAA doesnt seem to have thought things out properly. Their other big project is a 60000 seater stadium in Cork (why so big)
The GAA should have maybe one high quality 35000-40000 stadium in each province and should have maybe consulted the IRFU years ago about joint ventures. The remaining stadiums should have smaller capacities but better facilities. Instead the GAA wants to builld 32 white elephants around the country with huge capacities but terrible facilities.
The perfect example of the mismanagement is the dump that is the ''new'' gaelic grounds in Limerick. Why build a modern stadium in the West of Ireland with no roof! Secondly Limerick isnt a big place so why didnt the IRFU and GAA agree to build one 35000 high quality stadium that would have been used regularly and been easily maintained (Thomond park is good but to me feels unfinished).
l
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on March 23, 2011, 10:05:26 AM
I'd totally agree with that. Belfast could do with a multi-sport stadium but there is probably too much politics (within and outside the GAA) that would prevent this happening.

The US model for stadia seems ideal, where its often 3rd parties who build and own the stadia with a view to securing tenants on a rolling basis. In a country this size it probably won't work but definately joint venture stadium would be ideal for championship matches.

The GAA has loads of grounds round the place but none that can be considered stadium with suitable match day facilities - its a case of get in to game and get out. (Cue the we want to go and watch a game, not be entertained/pampered).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on March 23, 2011, 04:06:11 PM
I would have thought a joint GAA/IRFU stadium would have been a good concept especially for Belfast. Would mean more Ireland rugby matches could be held in the north while Casement and Ravenhill could remain in place for smaller games and possibly undergo some upgrades to bring them up to scratch. I agree with what Bingo says and even from a non-GAA point of view it is a huge waste of money. I hope it gets shelved.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 24, 2011, 02:21:48 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on March 23, 2011, 04:06:11 PM
I would have thought a joint GAA/IRFU stadium would have been a good concept especially for Belfast. Would mean more Ireland rugby matches could be held in the north while Casement and Ravenhill could remain in place for smaller games and possibly undergo some upgrades to bring them up to scratch. I agree with what Bingo says and even from a non-GAA point of view it is a huge waste of money. I hope it gets shelved.
I would agree with you on an IRFU/GAA venture. I suspect that all Ulster Finals will now go to Casement and probably some AI qualifiers as well. One thing you could not do is let the England in Disguise supporters any where near it, given their appalling behaviour in the Aviva.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: Bingo on March 23, 2011, 10:05:26 AM
The US model for stadia seems ideal, where its often 3rd parties who build and own the stadia with a view to securing tenants on a rolling basis.

That could be controversial. The way it actually works in the US is the local authorities (i.e. local taxpayers) subsidise the building of stadiums which are owned by professional clubs or subsidiaries of them. Professional sports clubs (or 'franchises' as they're known) have been known to play different cities off against each other in search of a better deal. The San Francisco 49ers are actually looking at moving out of San Francisco at the minute and building a new stadium in Santa Clara near where I work.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 03, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 04, 2011, 12:37:15 PM
Ohh forgot to mention...they might change the name to Danny Casement Park ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on April 04, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 03, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

murphy is a down man
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 04, 2011, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: The Worker on April 04, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 03, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

murphy is a down man

He may well be as i wasn't aware where he's from but he's going to make sure he goes out with a bang and his legacy will live on with Casement Park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2011, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 03, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

I know Danny McKenna. I'm pretty sure the Ulster Council works like any other GAA committee I've ever served on and a vote was taken. One person can't make that kind of decision in the GAA, that's not how the association works.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: winsamsoon on April 04, 2011, 11:59:59 PM
well i am no genius when it comes to figures but surely it would make more sense to use the 63 million to fully develope 4 grounds instead of one. Having four grounds in different parts of Ulster would surely be a better venture for the social structures of them areas. The problem with these decisions is that the ordinary GAA man/woman doesn't know the debates that go on during such meetings. Maybe there are channels were you can gain access to minutes etc????? I would like to know why my own club cannot receive the Million it needs to finish the ground, at the minute we are left with a brand new pitch and 3g facility with no stand. It's a disgrace but typical of the management structures within the GAA. We still haven't seen the money generated from the rugby internationals that was to be filtered down through the clubs. talk of centres of excellence have all seemed to be blowing white smoke up our asses
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on April 05, 2011, 12:05:25 AM
the lesson to be learned from dublin is don't let the egg chasers any where near the field you might as well let a herd of donkey  graze the pitch between matches looking at Lansdown road the few Fai matches  it looks like a cabbage patch
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 05, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2011, 06:55:11 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 03, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

I know Danny McKenna. I'm pretty sure the Ulster Council works like any other GAA committee I've ever served on and a vote was taken. One person can't make that kind of decision in the GAA, that's not how the association works.
Do you know Danny Murphy though?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on April 05, 2011, 01:37:16 PM
Quote from: winsamsoon on April 04, 2011, 11:59:59 PM
well i am no genius when it comes to figures but surely it would make more sense to use the 63 million to fully develope 4 grounds instead of one. Having four grounds in different parts of Ulster would surely be a better venture for the social structures of them areas. The problem with these decisions is that the ordinary GAA man/woman doesn't know the debates that go on during such meetings. Maybe there are channels were you can gain access to minutes etc????? I would like to know why my own club cannot receive the Million it needs to finish the ground, at the minute we are left with a brand new pitch and 3g facility with no stand. It's a disgrace but typical of the management structures within the GAA. We still haven't seen the money generated from the rugby internationals that was to be filtered down through the clubs. talk of centres of excellence have all seemed to be blowing white smoke up our asses

Not trying to stir the pot here (being from Antrim) but why should any club feel they are owed £1 million to finish any works these days?  Was this money promised or was the work started when grants were more readily accessible?  Corrigan Pk (St. John's) in Belfast used to be the county second ground until the stand was condemned and surely they would feel they should received some of this money to make improvements if that were the case?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 05, 2011, 02:30:09 PM
Aontroim the way it worked this time was that the Ulster Council nominated 3 grounds in Ulster to be graded as 2nd county ground status and that their grounds are in need of repair and therefore qualified for a Stadia Safety grant within Sport NI, Davitt Park in Lurgan was one of these grounds nominated. Davitt Park had met the criteria and had been passed to the next stage (whatever process Sport NI use), a business case and the cash were the only two matters left as full planning permission was already in place.

Now whilst waiting on this grant to come through £500,000 was spent on the ground giving it a new pitch and county standard floodlighting put in place along with a small 3G pitch, now this development was based on the stadia safety grant and things were done differently like no dugouts (subs were to go into new stand) there was not path around the pitch as it would only have been dug up again for the stands, there was the fencing put in at 900mm high to suit stands (this would have been 1200mm high). There are more but I'm only giving an example of what happened.

Now, what i was saying was if there was already £500,000 spent on it and £1,000,000 from the £63 million allocated to Ulster Council would have made it into a first class mini stadium capable of holding McKenna cup matches, Leagues games and College football then it's a no brainer
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 05, 2011, 06:35:03 PM
There are already enough big and good enough stadiums in Ulster. How many more while elephants do we need?


The money would be much better spent investing in improving club facilities around the province.


Look - how many times a year is Casement used (to anything like capacity)? Contrast that with the amount of times clubs are in dire straits for a lack of pitches for their numerous teams.


Time to strengthen the foundations instead of working on the penthouse suite of the ivory towers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on April 05, 2011, 07:01:47 PM
What club in Antrim do you think will get the couple of million for an upgrade to host the county games whilst Sir Roger is being done up?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on April 05, 2011, 08:16:50 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 05, 2011, 07:01:47 PM
What club in Antrim do you think will get the couple of million for an upgrade to host the county games whilst Sir Roger is being done up?

none
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 15, 2011, 02:05:12 PM
Have any plans or computer assisted drawings of the proposed new stadium emerged yet
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on May 26, 2011, 03:44:11 PM
No sign of plans for this yet? has anyone been able to get the images that were in the IN a while back?

I see Ulster Rugby have applied for planning for the upgrades to Ravenhill;

here is what the new Ravenhill is going to look like

http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116763&ext=PDF
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116764&ext=PDF

Plan of the stadium
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116749&ext=PDF

18,000 but quite a lot of standing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 08, 2011, 11:58:58 AM
Anybody got any news, any plans? At this rate it will ready in 40 years time. The same for parc ui chaoimh. Why the silence?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on July 08, 2011, 12:25:58 PM
UTV did a piece on falling attendance at the Ulster Championship. They said that the new Casement Park will have open air Pop concerts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2011, 12:53:22 PM
QuoteThey said that the new Casement Park will have open air Pop concerts.

Getting a major gig for Casement might help open things up. Perhaps the likes of U2 would oblige.

Some sort of management structure for the stadium is needed to remove it slightly from GAA politics and some of the Westie carry on that it has been associated with.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on July 08, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on May 26, 2011, 03:44:11 PM
No sign of plans for this yet? has anyone been able to get the images that were in the IN a while back?

I see Ulster Rugby have applied for planning for the upgrades to Ravenhill;

here is what the new Ravenhill is going to look like

http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116763&ext=PDF
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116764&ext=PDF

Plan of the stadium
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116749&ext=PDF

18,000 but quite a lot of standing.

Are they going to name it "Meccano Stadium"?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on September 24, 2011, 01:32:29 PM
Any initial plans of the new look casement available?
Title: Am
Post by: drici on September 26, 2011, 11:05:53 AM
http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/

(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/163-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Am
Post by: Maguire01 on September 26, 2011, 11:39:28 PM
Quote from: drici on September 26, 2011, 11:05:53 AM
http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/ (http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/)

(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/163-1.jpg)
Another one:
QuoteName : Philip          26 September 2011
Was yesterday the last match at Casement?


No.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2011, 11:42:04 PM
We play the Armagh Champions (Cross ;)) This Halloween, could be scary ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 26, 2011, 11:44:45 PM
It was Halloween last year too. It wasn't scary.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 27, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
The plans are definitely being kept close to the chest.  Am I right that one end of the stadium is shaped like an upright banana?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2011, 09:51:56 PM
Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 05, 2011, 01:36:40 PM
Does it have planning permission?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: optimus cheese on November 07, 2011, 11:15:05 AM
Still won't be able to get into the control tower I imagine :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on November 07, 2011, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2011, 09:51:56 PM
Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong

That is hilarious, any clips?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on November 17, 2011, 11:37:06 AM
UTV's Ken Reid has just said on Twitter, that Martin McGuinness says the redevelopment of Casement Park will start 2013.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Quote
Will this have implications immediately for the ulster final?

Not if Derry are playing!

More seriously, I expect some limited work could restore a large part of this capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on December 08, 2011, 02:27:57 PM
That's an interesting one!
Any idea what sections of the ground are having capacity reduced? Up to 15000 must mean all stands affected?

Could it to be to do with access to the stands rather than the condition of the actual stands? E.g. the majority of people leaving the Pat McGrane & the hill come out at the one point which could be a problem in an emergency. I'd think the actual stands, seating/ barriers on terracing etc are fine
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 25, 2012, 09:30:15 AM
I see Ravenhill got the go ahead yesterday, 3 new stands to be built, capacity up from ~12K to ~18K.

I note also that terracing will be maintained on at least 3 sides of the (Ravenhill) ground.


What is the latest on casement? Are the top-brass still insisting on an all-seater?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on January 25, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on January 25, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 25, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?

Rugby only needed the £15m, soccer wanted £30m odd and the GAA said they needed £90m or so. Rugby got what they wanted, the GAA got most of what they wanted and soccer got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 25, 2012, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 25, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?

Rugby only needed the £15m, soccer wanted £30m odd and the GAA said they needed £90m or so. Rugby got what they wanted, the GAA got most of what they wanted and soccer got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer.
Not true, indeed very misleading (as I'm sure was your intention).

The IFA applied for £25m (approx) for the re-building of Windsor to the latest FIFA minimum requirements, however this was only part of an overall plan for development of the game in NI. For unlike the GAA, who appear to be putting all their eggs in the one (Casement) basket, they plan to spend the remaining £30m-odd on developing other facilities throughout NI, including a major part on a new National Training/Development Centre (Blanchflower Park).

And as for your allegation that they "got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer", are you seriously implying that if the GAA hadn't been getting so much, that the IFA would have been happy to forego an extra £30m which was available to them from the Stormont sports budget?  ::)

The simple fact is that following the collapse of the Maze project, Stormont had a sum in excess of £100m in its sports stadia budget which they would have lost entirely, unless they came up with an alternative scheme. The then Sports Minister, Nelson McCausland managed to get this ring-fenced, and after extensive consultation and negotiation, came up with a £50m/£50m/£15m (approx) split between the 3 sports. This was effectively based on a number of factors, primarily need and participation/size.

Indeed, had he divided the total on crude sectarian* lines, as you suggest, this would almost certainly have been challenged as unlawful and an abuse of his powers.

Instead, it was broadly accepted as fair by all parties, including specifically by his Sinn Fein successor, Caral Ni Chuillin, who was quoted earlier this week at Ravenhill as saying:
"Having secured up to £110m earlier in the year for the development of regional stadiums for rugby, gaelic games and football, I am delighted that a point has been reached which will enable us to begin to see progress on the ground."


* - How curious the implication in your post, to which you did not object, that GAA is for "Fenians" (only)... :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on January 25, 2012, 08:46:05 PM

Jeez EG - arm yourself with a bit of common sense. Its so far off the mark to say the GAA put all of their eggs in one basket while the IFA are somehow have greater vision to develop other stadia. The reality is that the GAA already have 9 other stadia around Ulster with capacities varying from 12 - 30k.

This money is funding that was not anticipated and given the choice, the GAA would have renovated the stand at casement and invested the rest in other programs, including reinvestment in club initiatives and the Belfast Rising project. The government directive was that the total amount was available but only as a whole for one project - it could not be spread around. Given those parameters, of course they would empty the government offer into Casement (even though its not needed).

Odd that the IFA were allowed to divvy the money up on various projects when noone else was. I guess they have to find a way to throw Linfield a few quid somehow...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
Have we answered the initial question from all that shite talk then?

when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on January 25, 2012, 10:11:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
Have we answered the initial question from all that shite talk then?

when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

f**k that. Lets have more whataboutery over a few of the queens pennies. I hear the IFA/OO/legions of doom are planning to build a big fenian death ray with the money and lure taigs to it with a trail of rosary beads and laundered diesel.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 25, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

... and if it is still planned as an all-seater, who in the ulster council do you register your displeasure with?


They can have 3 stands with seats if they want, but please give us the choice by having at least the one standing area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on January 25, 2012, 11:39:09 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on January 25, 2012, 08:46:05 PM
The reality is that the GAA already have 9 other stadia around Ulster with capacities varying from 12 - 30k.

8 other ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on January 25, 2012, 11:41:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 25, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

... and if it is still planned as an all-seater, who in the ulster council do you register your displeasure with?


They can have 3 stands with seats if they want, but please give us the choice by having at least the one standing area.

The Ulster GAA were in England this week, inspecting the stadiums they have other there. Perhaps there's an announcement coming soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rasharkin Gael on January 26, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
I know the money has to be used for a stadium development so is ring fenced for Casement, but the priority in Antrim must be to finish the Dunsilly training complex. If it were not for the generousity of the Creggan club letting the county teams use their facilities , Antrim footballers would have very little options for modern training facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on January 26, 2012, 01:20:29 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on January 25, 2012, 11:41:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 25, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

... and if it is still planned as an all-seater, who in the ulster council do you register your displeasure with?


They can have 3 stands with seats if they want, but please give us the choice by having at least the one standing area.

The Ulster GAA were in England this week, inspecting the stadiums they have other there. Perhaps there's an announcement coming soon.

The Casement Etihad Sports Direct Emirates Arena??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Don Johnson on January 26, 2012, 06:19:12 PM
Quote from: Rasharkin Gael on January 26, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
I know the money has to be used for a stadium development so is ring fenced for Casement, but the priority in Antrim must be to finish the Dunsilly training complex. If it were not for the generousity of the Creggan club letting the county teams use their facilities , Antrim footballers would have very little options for modern training facilities.

Were they not using the Dub?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on January 27, 2012, 01:16:23 PM
Quote from: Rasharkin Gael on January 26, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
I know the money has to be used for a stadium development so is ring fenced for Casement, but the priority in Antrim must be to finish the Dunsilly training complex. If it were not for the generousity of the Creggan club letting the county teams use their facilities , Antrim footballers would have very little options for modern training facilities.

I'd imagine the County are being quite generous in return to Creggan for the usage  :D 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 27, 2012, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 25, 2012, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: Ulick on January 25, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 25, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?

Rugby only needed the £15m, soccer wanted £30m odd and the GAA said they needed £90m or so. Rugby got what they wanted, the GAA got most of what they wanted and soccer got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer.
Not true, indeed very misleading (as I'm sure was your intention).

The IFA applied for £25m (approx) for the re-building of Windsor to the latest FIFA minimum requirements, however this was only part of an overall plan for development of the game in NI. For unlike the GAA, who appear to be putting all their eggs in the one (Casement) basket, they plan to spend the remaining £30m-odd on developing other facilities throughout NI, including a major part on a new National Training/Development Centre (Blanchflower Park).

And as for your allegation that they "got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer", are you seriously implying that if the GAA hadn't been getting so much, that the IFA would have been happy to forego an extra £30m which was available to them from the Stormont sports budget?  ::)

The simple fact is that following the collapse of the Maze project, Stormont had a sum in excess of £100m in its sports stadia budget which they would have lost entirely, unless they came up with an alternative scheme. The then Sports Minister, Nelson McCausland managed to get this ring-fenced, and after extensive consultation and negotiation, came up with a £50m/£50m/£15m (approx) split between the 3 sports. This was effectively based on a number of factors, primarily need and participation/size.

Indeed, had he divided the total on crude sectarian* lines, as you suggest, this would almost certainly have been challenged as unlawful and an abuse of his powers.

Instead, it was broadly accepted as fair by all parties, including specifically by his Sinn Fein successor, Caral Ni Chuillin, who was quoted earlier this week at Ravenhill as saying:
"Having secured up to £110m earlier in the year for the development of regional stadiums for rugby, gaelic games and football, I am delighted that a point has been reached which will enable us to begin to see progress on the ground."


* - How curious the implication in your post, to which you did not object, that GAA is for "Fenians" (only)... :o
I was under the impression that initially, the money had to be spent on one project. Otherwise the GAA might well have decided to upgrade a number of venues. It appeared very much like the IFA didn't need as much as the GAA (for Windsor), so McCausland found another way to 'even things up'.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on February 08, 2012, 09:46:15 AM
Lots of outline detail of new stadium just listed at WWW.publictenders.net/tender/134687


Outline of accommodation.
The following schedule is an approximate guide only and is subject to change.
A stadium capacity of 40 000 is envisaged for this new all-seated stadium,
Capacity allocation is broken down as follows:

Standard seats 37 120,
Premium seats 2 000,
Corporate seats 580,
VIP seats 300,
Total 40 000,
Press 80.
Special needs and disabled seating provision to be in accordance with Green Guide Stadium or other regional/national guidelines within Europe,
Acoustically capable of hosting concerts and other potential non-GAA events,
A pitch to GAA dimensions and GAA performance criteria. Pitch size to be a minimum of 141m x 80m excluding a 5m run-off,
A stadium that is pitch maintenance sensitive,
Stadium lighting to allow high definition media,
Corporate level area including dining,
Adequate car and coach parking,
Adequate storage and maintenance equipment areas,
Turnstiles and enhanced access areas to the stadium,
Internal access areas including lift areas,
Media Centre,
Medical and safety facilities,
Crowd Control Centre,
Four large dressing rooms to County Squad size (45 persons) and 2 medium size dressing rooms (30 persons),
An adequate conference facility to accommodate a number of medium to large conference events,
Space to be allocated for potential development of future commercial units.

Stadium access.
Pitch access is required for players,
Maintenance access is required for vehicles.

Concourses.
Concourses to be designed to accommodate the needs of user capacity and provide for other functional uses such as conferences, meeting rooms and community rooms.

Player accommodation.
4 no. County squad size player changing suites accommodating 45 players with each suite including a changing room, with separate toilet and shower areas,
2 no. medium size player changing suites accommodating 30 players with each suite including a changing room, with separate toilets and shower areas,
4 no. warm up room 96 m2,
4 no. physio room 15 m2,
4 no. medical room 10 m2,
2 no. drug testing room 10 m2,
Referee changing rooms â€" 2no @ 50 m2 each,
Player press conference area â€" 20 m2,
Players lounge â€" 80 m2.

Patron accommodation.
Patron toilets,
All spectator accommodation to be served by toilet facilities designed to address peak demand and limit congestion,
Concession units â€" all spectator accommodation to be served by concession units designed to meet patron peak demand. Approx area 1 070 m2,
First aid room 10 m2 at each patron level.

Staff facilities.
Stewards, operational staff briefing and hospitality area â€" 300 m2,
Premium level catering staff changing/ rest and toilet facilities â€" 60 m2,
Concession staff changing/rest and toilet facilities â€" 80 m2.

Main production kitchen.
Main production kitchen â€" 550 m2,
Satellite kitchens- 2no at 250 m2.

Event management suite.
Event management room â€" 30 m2,
Police room â€" 15 m2,
PA room â€" 15 m2,
WC / Tea station â€" 10 m2,
Meeting room â€" 30 m2.

Press media.
80 press media comprising 48 writing press and 32 broadcasting press,
Writing press room â€" 80 m2,
Press media hospitality â€" 95 m2,
Radio station â€" 40 m2,
TV station â€" 40 m2.

Security and ticketing.
Security room â€" 50 m2,
Ticket office â€" 100 m2.

Plant rooms.
Boiler room,
Water storage,
Transformer /switch / pump / generator,
Pitch maintenance,
Refuse compactor/waste management general plant rooms.

Parking.
Car parking for 240 cars,
2no outside broadcasting units,
6no player coaches.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2012, 11:01:12 AM
The proposed timescale, we're looking at Championship games being played in 2016/2017??

The following dates are indicative only and are subject to change:

July 2012 appointment of the economic operator.

July 2012 beginning of enabling works design and procurement process.

September 2012 commence preparation of procurement documents for IST appointment.

October 2012 issue enabling ITT documents.

February 2013 completion of design to RIBA stage D/E.

February 2013 planning application submitted.

February 2013 issue IST ITT documents.

July 2013 appointment of IST.

Autumn 2013 planning permission received (subject to planning process).

December 2013 beginning of construction period.

September 2015 completion of construction period.

September 2016 completion of defects period.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 08, 2012, 06:40:07 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 08, 2012, 11:01:12 AM
The proposed timescale, we're looking at Championship games being played in 2016/2017??
And that's probably ambitious enough. A lot probably hinges on the planning permission date. And that tender link reads like it hasn't been designed - I thought that had been done? Where did all the 'artist impressions' come from that were doing the rounds a few years ago?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Magicsponge on February 09, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
From Hoganstand - http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=161750

Casement Park revamp put on hold

Work on the redevelopment of Casement Park will begin a year later than expected.

The Irish News reports that the redevelopment of the Belfast venue won't start until the end of 2013, meaning it will be available to host National League and championship games next year. The Ulster Council plans to demolish the existing stadium and construct a new 40,000 capacity all-seater stadium at a cost of £76.4 million. The British Government will contribute £64.1 million towards the cost of the redevelopment.

When completed, the new Casement Park will replace St. Tiernach's Park in Clones as the new headquarters of Ulster GAA. The invitation for tenders reveals that the deadline for design is February 2013, and that the planning application will be submitted in the same month.

The construction period is expected to last 21 months.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 17, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
Quote from: Derry on February 17, 2012, 12:43:20 AM
Some major news due on this project on Friday. The Irish News back page folks is a must for you all tomorrow!
Was backed by all 9 counties at Ulster Council meeting tonight.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 17, 2012, 04:01:20 PM
This was on the BBC this morning. All the interviewer wanted to know was if Casement would facilitate soccer or rugby. The answer was no.

I don't recall Windsor Park or Ravenhill getting the same questions.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 04:13:59 PM
QuoteI don't recall Windsor Park or Ravenhill getting the same questions.

The difference is that Windsor Park or Ravenhill will be incorporating an inability to be used for GAA in their physical design.

I think though that some consideration of a broader use for this stadium might be considered. It will be large and not much used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 04:19:51 PM
There's serious danger of it becoming a white elephant. The capacity is probably about 5-10,000 too high for football in Ulster. It's also difficult to see what concerts they could attract that would fill the place, and that's before considering that some promoters might be apprehensive about booking it at all, given its location.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 17, 2012, 05:45:19 PM
I disagree, properly priced tickets for the Ulster Final and double headers will attract 40,000. Also AI Qtr Finals could be held here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 05:50:10 PM

All Ireland Quarter Finals
Ulster Finals
International Rules Matches
Big Championship Matches

All would attract 40,000 to a modern, family friendly all seater stadium.  Build it and they will come.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on February 17, 2012, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 04:19:51 PM
There's serious danger of it becoming a white elephant. The capacity is probably about 5-10,000 too high for football in Ulster. It's also difficult to see what concerts they could attract that would fill the place, and that's before considering that some promoters might be apprehensive about booking it at all, given its location.

Lets be honest, we dont need half the stadiums we do have. The majority of them are only full once every few years when theres an attractive home first round draw
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 06:28:50 PM
QuoteAll Ireland Quarter Finals

Belfast is not well situated for such games. Fine if it is some combination of Down/Derry/Tyrone/Armagh nut not much use if a team from another province is involved.

QuoteUlster Finals

This would be the main application. Was the Ulster final full this year?

QuoteInternational Rules Matches

Once every 3 years or even less frequently?

QuoteBig Championship Matches

There aren't so many of those. Armagh v Down last year was nowhere near full,  and Armagh v Tyrone didn't need tickets either. Of course if the Armagh and Tyrone rivalry had been in its prime then perhaps there would be more, but this was an typical period.

What was the biggest crowd in the last 20 years at an Antrim game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 17, 2012, 07:10:32 PM
Would be great to see a revived railway cup game at this stadium when completed.

Anyone hear the rumour that the ulster gaa are thinking of selling the naming rights of the stadium for a fixed income stream?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 17, 2012, 08:56:58 PM
A very modern 25k stadium would be great. 40k too big unless it had been a shared stadium. Will lack atmosphere unless at least 3/4 full. Antrim national league games will look silly in this size of stadium. And truthfully I can't see anything more than 1 or 2 big ulster games per year.  Sure at the moment the big games aren't hitting 20k. I hope it works out but my fear is it will become a financial millstone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 09:10:33 PM
It won't be a financial millstone, the bloody thing is already paid for 8)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on February 17, 2012, 10:06:17 PM
(http://www.setanta.com/Global/Images/sport/gaa/Grounds/GaelicGrounds480.jpg)

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaJhl1St0wNPY857U0MkWNplxXPPxu3sVWJYFwXxiQMFRkYczkwg)

(http://www.worldstadia.com/data/images/p/d/pdgs050615132911.jpg)

Not our finest stand.


Compared to what the egg chasers put up down the road:

(http://www.munsterrugby.ie/images/content/Thomond-Park-Aerial(1).jpg)

(http://www.thomondpark.ie/wp-content/themes/starkers/scripts/timthumb.php?src=http://www.thomondpark.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/stadium_image_6.jpg&h=326&w=786&zc=1&q=100)

(http://www.pkexectravel.com/images/Thomond-Park.jpg)

Half the size but twice the stadium. Thomond is a stadia nearly always full and this enhances the atmosphere and image when recorded on tv. Just because the GAA build a stadium that 50,000 people can go to, doesn't mean 50,000 people will.

Build it and they will come is bullshit. If it were the Gaelic Grounds would not currently be the white elephant it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 17, 2012, 10:11:31 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 09:10:33 PM
It won't be a financial millstone, the bloody thing is already paid for 8)

Will it be free upkeep all year too?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 17, 2012, 10:11:31 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 09:10:33 PM
It won't be a financial millstone, the bloody thing is already paid for 8)

Will it be free upkeep all year too?
Precisely. The GAA is great at throwing money at things to build them. Then they sit there and rot. Croke Park is the exception.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 17, 2012, 10:23:51 PM
Feckitt, I'm nearly sure Aoghan Farrell said on radio ulster this morning that plenty (if not all) of the money still had to be raised - like tens of millions. and running costs won't be sneezed at either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 17, 2012, 10:27:17 PM
Would be great if they put a roof on the stadium. Would be a real jewel in the gaa crown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:29:40 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 05:50:10 PM
All Ireland Quarter Finals
Ulster Finals
International Rules Matches
Big Championship Matches

All would attract 40,000 to a modern, family friendly all seater stadium.  Build it and they will come.
All very optimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?

All Ireland Quarter Finals depend on the teams playing, as has already been said.

International Rules hits Ireland once every 3 years(?) One match is in Croker and the other tends to tour the country. So if Ulster/Casement got a game every third tour, that's roughly one game in ten years.

You've mentioned Ulster Finals and Quarter Finals already. What other big Championship games are there?

I don't believe that this level of use would support an investment this size in the real world.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: The Worker on February 17, 2012, 10:27:17 PM
Would be great if they put a roof on the stadium. Would be a real jewel in the gaa crown.
A 15-20,000 capacity stadium with a roof would be a much more sensible use of this money. Something that we don't already have and something that would be properly used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 17, 2012, 10:06:17 PM
Half the size but twice the stadium. Thomond is a stadia nearly always full and this enhances the atmosphere and image when recorded on tv. Just because the GAA build a stadium that 50,000 people can go to, doesn't mean 50,000 people will.

Build it and they will come is bullshit. If it were the Gaelic Grounds would not currently be the white elephant it is.
Agreed. Thomond looks great for its capacity. Why can't the GAA design small stadia like this? Why do we end up with stands like that in McHale park in this day and age?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:08:06 PM
I wonder if some of these projects are monuments to some GAA egos.....

Pairc Esler rebuilt to hold 20,000. Down might get that crowd once in 5 years (against Armagh or Tyrone) - how can that be justified?
I'm told it costs over 50 grand a year to run the place - certainly won't scratch that from gate mony even in a good year.
Healy Park has similar issues despite the massive Tyrone bandwagon of recent years.
New Morgan stadium is dinky and will be full to capacity probably once in the next 10 years.
Enniskillen & Ballybofey are just fields with some dodgy seating.
Casement 40,000 ? - the first Ulster final in it might fill it, after that once in a blue moon ....... maybe.
As for concerts or other events there - are you serious? Given the "issues" with its location the only chance is for a Wolfe Tones concert with Wolfe himself headlining it.
Now a neat fully covered ground holding about 15,000 - 20,000  for all Ulster championship games might make some sense - although hard to find the right location for 9 counties - somewhere around Dungannon maybe - too late now.

White elephant it most assuredly is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 11:22:28 PM
Pairc Esler, Armagh and Omagh are one thing. Even a National League game might make use of more than half the capacity several times a year. These stadia have a single large stand which is well enough used at league games, McKenna cup games, county finals and the like. The rest of the ground is terracing, relatively cheaply provided, Morgan has a small roof over some of this. Casement Nua will have seats all around, mostly covered I expect, so the whole stadium will be like the stand in Pairc Esler.  An expensive pigeon roost mostly.

If Casement could be built with a roof, perhaps an inflatable affair, it would be great for all manners of concerts and the like and perhaps something could be done for other sporting brethren.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
Armaghniac

"and perhaps something could be done for other sporting brethren"

Life will certainly be upside down before that happens.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 17, 2012, 11:31:53 PM
A monumental waste of money. Can't believe this shit is proceeding. 20k tops might be viable but I would guess it will be at capacity a handful of times in 10 years.

I wonder will the stewards let all the McCooeys through the main gate in the new place?!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:08:06 PM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1, 20 from the train halt, 20 on bus or taxi from city centre. What's the issue with location?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 17, 2012, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 17, 2012, 11:31:53 PM
A monumental waste of money. Can't believe this shit is proceeding. 20k tops might be viable but I would guess it will be at capacity a handful of times in 10 years.

I wonder will the stewards let all the McCooeys through the main gate in the new place?!

As Leo has said above I think some officials egos are getting the better of them. Nothing a Gaa official likes more than a bit of back slapping and a photo opportunity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 17, 2012, 11:31:53 PM
A monumental waste of money. Can't believe this shit is proceeding. 20k tops might be viable but I would guess it will be at capacity a handful of times in 10 years.

I wonder will the stewards let all the McCooeys through the main gate in the new place?!

Croker only needs 25k or 35k to break even so I'd guess this would only need about 7-10k so big events subsidise the smaller. Couple of rugby lads in work were asking me earlier what the chances would be for getting for their big games and five or six years down the road I don't think there would be a problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:46:23 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:08:06 PM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1,

Where do you park to make this walk?

20 from the train halt,

What, from Balmoral?? - half hour plus

20 on bus or taxi from city centre.

Will the black taxis let the buses run on match day??

What's the issue with location?

Now I haven't started on lack of a decent place to eat or drink anywhere near the place..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
Quote from: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:46:23 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:08:06 PM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1,

Where do you park to make this walk?

20 from the train halt,

What, from Balmoral?? - half hour plus

20 on bus or taxi from city centre.

Will the black taxis let the buses run on match day??

What's the issue with location?

Now I haven't started on lack of a decent place to eat or drink anywhere near the place..

1. You get off a bus or park in one of the shopping centres or that big field on Boucher where they have the fairs.
2. I walk it most Sunday mornings and can do it in 20. Still not a fraction of distance of Connolly to Croker.
3. There's more than one route to Andytown Rd from city centre, but on match days I would anticipate park-and-ride from Sprusefield and city centre. Black taxi to cover pub trade on the Falls.
4. See above.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 12:03:37 AM
I've never found parking or access to/from a problem.

I would worry about the financial viability. Increased TV coverage, increased ticket prices and less dough flying about might mean they'll do well to make a profit in any given year - unless Antrim become a force themselves.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:07:34 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:29:40 PM
All ery ptimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?


Not too many neutrals would consider battling their way to Clones to watch an Ulster final. Shit roads to a ground in the middle of nowhere which takes a whole day to get to and return wouldn't be a problem with Casement, particularly for families.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 12:11:15 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:07:34 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:29:40 PM
All ery ptimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?


Not too many neutrals would consider battling their way to Clones to watch an Ulster final. Shit roads to a ground in the middle of nowhere which takes a whole day to get to and return wouldn't be a problem with Casement, particularly for families.

Clones is another ground I never found a problem with.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:14:17 AM
But you wouldn't take your family for a big game unless your county was playing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 12:16:55 AM
I'd never take my family to a game unless one of our counties were playing but I know what you're saying. If I was that way inclined, yes I would. Always parked well, had plenty of time for a bottle of Rose and corned beef ciabatta and an enjoyable experience.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:08:06 PM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1, 20 from the train halt, 20 on bus or taxi from city centre. What's the issue with location?
You could make similar arguments for accessibility to the Lower Newtownards Road, or the Shore Road. Doesn't mean there's not an issue with location.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:57:39 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
Croker only needs 25k or 35k to break even so I'd guess this would only need about 7-10k so big events subsidise the smaller.
The only problem is, Croker has plenty of the bigger events. It has a number of guaranteed sell-outs or 80% capacity events every year. Two All-Irelands, Leinster Final, a few Dublin games, AI Semi-Finals and a few big concerts. Casement won't. It is quite possible that, like the Gaelic Grounds, it will go for years at a time without being full.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:07:34 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:29:40 PM
All ery ptimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?


Not too many neutrals would consider battling their way to Clones to watch an Ulster final. Shit roads to a ground in the middle of nowhere which takes a whole day to get to and return wouldn't be a problem with Casement, particularly for families.
Where are these neutrals coming from?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:53:28 AM
You could make similar arguments for accessibility to the Lower Newtownards Road, or the Shore Road. Doesn't mean there's not an issue with location.

I didn't say there wasn't an issue with location, I asked what they were.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:57:39 AM
The only problem is, Croker has plenty of the bigger events. It has a number of guaranteed sell-outs or 80% capacity events every year. Two All-Irelands, Leinster Final, a few Dublin games, AI Semi-Finals and a few big concerts. Casement won't. It is quite possible that, like the Gaelic Grounds, it will go for years at a time without being full.

Bigger events i.e. > 10k subsides the smaller, there doesn't have to be a guaranteed sell-out to make it potentially viable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
Where are these neutrals coming from?

There are approximately one million people within an hours drive of Casement Park, so take you pick: Newry, Dungannon, Ballymena, Newcastle, Craigavon and I dunno, Belfast maybe...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 18, 2012, 01:18:18 PM
Regardless of the other issues, it is gonna be weird sitting in a 40,000 stadium with barely 1,000 people at an Antrim National League game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 18, 2012, 01:20:39 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 18, 2012, 01:18:18 PM
Regardless of the other issues, it is gonna be weird sitting in a 40,000 stadium with barely 1,000 people at an Antrim National League game.

I didn't find it strange sitting in an 82,500 stadia, with approx. 500 people in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:46:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:53:28 AM
You could make similar arguments for accessibility to the Lower Newtownards Road, or the Shore Road. Doesn't mean there's not an issue with location.

I didn't say there wasn't an issue with location, I asked what they were.
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 18, 2012, 01:20:39 PM

I didn't find it strange sitting in an 82,500 stadia, with approx. 500 people in it.

Bilocation?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:57:39 AM
The only problem is, Croker has plenty of the bigger events. It has a number of guaranteed sell-outs or 80% capacity events every year. Two All-Irelands, Leinster Final, a few Dublin games, AI Semi-Finals and a few big concerts. Casement won't. It is quite possible that, like the Gaelic Grounds, it will go for years at a time without being full.

Bigger events i.e. > 10k subsides the smaller, there doesn't have to be a guaranteed sell-out to make it potentially viable.
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:05:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
Where are these neutrals coming from?

There are approximately one million people within an hours drive of Casement Park, so take you pick: Newry, Dungannon, Ballymena, Newcastle, Craigavon and I dunno, Belfast maybe...
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:34:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.

Well Windsor wouldn't put me off as a concert venue and if some of the OWC posters are to be believed, I'm the ultimate Fenian bigot, so I don't see why a venue a few hundred meters from the M1 would deter even the most hardened unionist.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:35:41 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:34:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.

Well Windsor wouldn't put me off as a concert venue and if some of the OWC posters are to be believed, I'm the ultimate Fenian bigot, so I don't see why a venue a few hundred meters from the M1 would deter even the most hardened unionist.

But it will so why pretend otherwise?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?

No idea, but I was thinking Antrim games would be going to Dunsilly or somewhere more suitable to the expected attendance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:42:36 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?

No idea, but I was thinking Antrim games would be going to Dunsilly or somewhere more suitable to the expected attendance.

Why would they move about 12 games a season to Dunsilly when they need the smaller attendances to "break even" ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:05:08 PM
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.

A new modern stadium with all the facilities and conveniences? It's hard to say, but if you compare it to the new Croker, IMO it's likely to attract people from far and wide and I'd say across the "community". It's position next to the M1 is going to have everyone who travels that direction into the city curious at the very least. The existing Casement is a soulless concretion jungle which very rarely gets an attractive game and when it does it's stewarded by parochial Antrim officials. The new Casement would have to be run on a more professional stadium management organisation so the current abuses don't continue. Again, Croke Park was the same before redevelopment and I remember well jumping turnstiles, climbing the wall or just giving a fiver to get in through the exit gate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:56:09 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:05:08 PM
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.

A new modern stadium with all the facilities and conveniences? It's hard to say, but if you compare it to the new Croker, IMO it's likely to attract people from far and wide and I'd say across the "community". It's position next to the M1 is going to have everyone who travels that direction into the city curious at the very least. The existing Casement is a soulless concretion jungle which very rarely gets an attractive game and when it does it's stewarded by parochial Antrim officials. The new Casement would have to be run on a more professional stadium management organisation so the current abuses don't continue. Again, Croke Park was the same before redevelopment and I remember well jumping turnstiles, climbing the wall or just giving a fiver to get in through the exit gate.

Ulick, unfortunately the same Antrim officials will be there, that will be part of the deal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 01:04:25 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:42:36 AM
Why would they move about 12 games a season to Dunsilly when they need the smaller attendances to "break even" ?

Not sure I get you Minder. Surely having regular small attendances would only increase the loss in revenue by having to open and staff the whole stadium - that's why Dublin play their league games in Parnell Park? Casement would only be open for smaller attendances if it was to be a showpiece game - MacRory, Herald, 1st round championship & qualifiers, hurling & camogie finals and maybe Sigerson when it's here. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2012, 01:08:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 06:28:50 PM
QuoteAll Ireland Quarter Finals

Belfast is not well situated for such games. Fine if it is some combination of Down/Derry/Tyrone/Armagh nut not much use if a team from another province is involved.

QuoteUlster Finals

This would be the main application. Was the Ulster final full this year?

QuoteInternational Rules Matches

Once every 3 years or even less frequently?

QuoteBig Championship Matches

There aren't so many of those. Armagh v Down last year was nowhere near full,  and Armagh v Tyrone didn't need tickets either. Of course if the Armagh and Tyrone rivalry had been in its prime then perhaps there would be more, but this was an typical period.

What was the biggest crowd in the last 20 years at an Antrim game?

Ulster Football final a few years ago was busy.

We are 1.30 Hours away from Dublin which as far as I'm aware is outside of Ulster

Dublin is a city, Belfast is also a city. Croke park is a busy housing area and so is Casement.

Motorway to Casement, granted parking is not as good as when you go to Croke, no wait it's the same!!

You have based your points/reasons because you'd rather have it somewhere else, maybe closer to you.

The money is being given to Casement can't do anything about it, outside of Croke Parks hands in fairness

By the way Ulick Dublin for the past 2 years have been playing league games at Croke to increase the gate!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 01:10:12 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 01:04:25 AM
Quote from: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:42:36 AM
Why would they move about 12 games a season to Dunsilly when they need the smaller attendances to "break even" ?

Not sure I get you Minder. Surely having regular small attendances would only increase the loss in revenue by having to open and staff the whole stadium - that's why Dublin play their league games in Parnell Park? Casement would only be open for smaller attendances if it was to be a showpiece game - MacRory, Herald, 1st round championship & qualifiers, hurling & camogie finals and maybe Sigerson when it's here.

The whole stadium isn't staffed, as per any Antrim game, they only open the main stand usually, and not even the lower part, depending on the game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:05:08 PM
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.

A new modern stadium with all the facilities and conveniences? It's hard to say, but if you compare it to the new Croker, IMO it's likely to attract people from far and wide and I'd say across the "community". It's position next to the M1 is going to have everyone who travels that direction into the city curious at the very least. The existing Casement is a soulless concretion jungle which very rarely gets an attractive game and when it does it's stewarded by parochial Antrim officials. The new Casement would have to be run on a more professional stadium management organisation so the current abuses don't continue. Again, Croke Park was the same before redevelopment and I remember well jumping turnstiles, climbing the wall or just giving a fiver to get in through the exit gate.
What's the point in comparing it to the new Croker? It's not as if the old Croker was lying empty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:19:55 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?

No idea, but I was thinking Antrim games would be going to Dunsilly or somewhere more suitable to the expected attendance.
So there'll be absolutely no games then between August (best case scenario, getting a QF) and April (again, best case scenario - league finals)? That sounds viable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:23:30 AM
Quote from: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:34:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.

Well Windsor wouldn't put me off as a concert venue and if some of the OWC posters are to be believed, I'm the ultimate Fenian bigot, so I don't see why a venue a few hundred meters from the M1 would deter even the most hardened unionist.
I don't believe it wouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:33:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2012, 01:08:29 AM
The money is being given to Casement can't do anything about it, outside of Croke Parks hands in fairness
I think it's accepted that they money is going to be used on Casement. It's just about how that money is best used. And whether a 40,000 capacity stadium is the answer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on February 19, 2012, 09:51:32 AM
Coming back to the tender specs, any idea why the stadium has to achieve a BREEAM rating of "excellent"?
Is it not an expensive eco-luxury, the cost of which would be better spent on fitting out the stadium to a higher standard?
My guess is that consultants, architects, etc all benefit from over-specifying to ramp up costs. They benefit, but we get little tangible benefit in return.

This link details the exponential increase in cost of aiming for a BREEAM of "excellent" in schools, rather than the perfectly acceptable, and easily achievable "very good" rating.

http://www.fgould.com/uk/projects/the-cost-of-breeam-compliance-in-schools/

It was found that in some circumstances the exponentially increasing costs of achieving the additional credits for an 'Excellent' rating can detract significantly from the project's affordability.

Score      BREEAM rating     Cost
40           Good             Little or no extra cost
55           Very Good          £19/m² additional cost
70+           Excellent           May cost an extra £60/m²

The study highlights that attempting to reach BREEAM Excellent can mean additional costs climb very steeply.
An 'Excellent' rating will be very hard to achieve without incorporating a suitable renewable energy solution, which will often be the only practicable method of achieving an 'Excellent' rating.

The 'Excellent' rating can only be achieved through the addition of a renewable energy option.

The renewable credits, associated with the installation of technologies such as ground source heat pumps (GSHP), biomass boilers, solar thermal hot water systems, photovoltaic 'solar cells' (PV) or small scale wind turbines are likely to be among the most expensive to attain.

However, current trends suggest that the inclusion of an on-site renewable energy source is likely to become a mandatory requirement for future projects.

On a positive note, the study demonstrates that achieving a 'Very Good' rating is not likely to create significant extra costs, provided that satisfaction of the BREEAM credits is given due consideration early in the design process.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on February 19, 2012, 01:01:46 PM
The place will be used just as much as it currently is, between Antrim club games, schools games, colleges, county games - regardless of crowd it will still be available for use as before as Antrim's main ground, and Casement social club will be re-housed in there somewhere too.  Even chat that Ulster Council are looking to move there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2012, 11:41:42 AM
Lads, thinking in the here and now you would only build a 25,000 capacity stadium. You are only going to get this money once. Therefore some future proofing is needed. if a fenian like me can go to Ravenhill to watch a concert, plenty of liberal unionists will attend Casement. If the GAA get the right pricing structure in place Ulster Finals will sell out. And if some of the Kerry posters have their way sure the Ulster Final could be renamed the All-Northern Ireland Final and it would then be the holy grali! :) Joking aside we would be lambasting the GAA in 10 years time when the economy has changed and a 25,000 stadium was too small. I say fair play to them for their ambition for our games and look forward to a Linfiled vs Cross Rangers Ulster Club Final in 2020. ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2012, 09:46:31 AM
Offaly man Noel Molloy to oversee development of Casement (and Ravenhill and Windsor).  Being from Birr at least he should know a bit about the needs of hurling fans!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/17630485

Titanic man to oversee NI sport stadiums projects

The man who oversaw the construction of the new Titanic Belfast building has been headhunted to project manage the redevelopment of the three Northern Ireland sport stadiums.

Noel Molloy will become programme director for the Ravenhill, Casement Park and Windsor Park projects.

Government funding of £130m has been signed off on for the overall project.

Up until now, Sport Northern Ireland had sole responsibility for the joint stadiums project.

Sport Northern Ireland is the public body tasked with the development of sport in Northern Ireland and employs over 80 people.

Funded by the Departure of Culture, Arts and Leisure and the lottery, SportNI works in partnership with Stormont as its implementation arm.

Sports Minister Caral Ni Chuilin confirmed that she had appointed Mr Molloy "as the new programme director following his role in delivering Titanic Belfast".

In a statement, the Sports Minister added that it had "become clear in recent months that the original estimates in the timescales for construction of the stadiums will not be met.

Use accessible player and disable flyout menusNoel Molloy, who oversaw the construction of the new Titanic Belfast building, has been headhunted to project manage the redevelopment of the three Northern Ireland sport stadiums

"Earlier this week I held further discussions with Mr Molloy and senior figures from rugby, soccer and gaelic. This followed constructive meetings last week with the SportNI chair and board," continued the minister.

"Having considered the options I have decided to bring overall operational responsibility for delivery of the stadium programme into my department.

"The stadium development programme is at the top of my department's agenda.

"Officials are working on a structured handover process with SportNI.

"This will ensure that the department, in conjunction with all existing stakeholders, can effectively deliver the next phase of the stadium programme.

"I wish to thank SportNI for its work to date, and ongoing assistance and support during the next phase of this vital capital programme."

SportNI's chief executive Eamonn McCartan was unavailable for comment on Thursday.

Prior to working on Titanic Belfast, Molloy, a native of Birr in county Offaly, was project manager for the refurbishment and redevelopment of the premier Royal Oasis resort in the Bahamas.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wacko on September 03, 2012, 11:15:30 AM
Major announcement made on Casement Park project today. Design team has been appointed. Click on the link below for more info:

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2012/09/major-milestone-in-casement-project/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 03, 2012, 01:06:15 PM
40,000 all seater stadium. I reckon Casement will be hosting the Ulster finals from now on then. Sounds class.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 03, 2012, 05:57:30 PM
Design team was involved in the Mbombela Stadium in South Africa which has the same 3 tier layout as Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 06:16:50 PM
QuoteI reckon Casement will be hosting the Ulster finals from now on then.

It will be good crack when they abolish the provincial championships and have a champions league type format, the Antrim home games will be rocking.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on September 03, 2012, 06:21:24 PM
Hopefully when the Stadium is finished it will boost attendances in the county, which have been flagging seriously. Would be nice to have a bumper crowd for a county final, or even a championship match for once. If they build up enough anticipation and knock the design out of the park it could be massive for the future of Antrim and Ulster GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 03, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
I doubt if the thousands are staying away from Antrim Club games because Casement isn't all seated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 09:02:49 PM
Sadly, the only way you'd get a big crowd of locals in Casement Park was to have a Celtic v Rangers game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on September 03, 2012, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 09:02:49 PM
Sadly, the only way you'd get a big crowd of locals in Casement Park was to have a Celtic v Rangers game.

sad but true, you get more in the few pubs near Casement watching soccer than you would get inside it for an Antrim game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: saffron sam2 on September 03, 2012, 10:18:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 03, 2012, 01:06:15 PM
40,000 all seater stadium. I reckon Casement will be hosting the Ulster finals from now on then. Sounds class.

As it should be. May Clones be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Quote from: stibhan on September 03, 2012, 06:21:24 PM
Hopefully when the Stadium is finished it will boost attendances in the county, which have been flagging seriously. Would be nice to have a bumper crowd for a county final, or even a championship match for once. If they build up enough anticipation and knock the design out of the park it could be massive for the future of Antrim and Ulster GAA.

A 40K stadium would be the worst place to play an Antrim county final. Take her up the country. Creggan, Loughgiel, Dunloy, Ballymena, Hannahstown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
Will Hardstation watch my motor for a fiver?

Is the new stadium ever expected to repay the outlay?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 11:25:21 PM
QuoteIs the new stadium ever expected to repay the outlay?


The outlay to the GAA is negligible. The whole idea is to get Windsor Park done up, this is a just a side expense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2012, 01:45:46 AM
The Irish Times - Tuesday, September 4, 2012
Planned £76m redevelopment of Casement Park moves closer

Down fans at a game against Antrim at Casement Park last year. When work is completed, the park will be the major stadium in Ulster. The plan is set to ensure big championship games will be held in Belfast rather than Clones. Photograph: Russell Pritchard/Presseye/Inpho

PLANS TO create a 40,000 all-seater GAA stadium at Casement Park in west Belfast have moved a "significant" step closer after international engineering consultancy firm Mott MacDonald Ltd was appointed to design it.

The £76.4 million (€96.4 million) project – with the Northern Executive providing the bulk of the funding – is due to be completed by 2015. Sinn Féin Minister for Sports Carál Ní Chuilín said at Casement Park yesterday that this was one of the most exciting GAA projects since the redevelopment of Croke Park.

When completed, Casement Park will be the major stadium in Ulster. The development is likely to ensure big provincial championship games including Ulster finals will be played in Belfast rather than Clones, Co Monaghan.

The GAA described the latest development in the plans to regenerate Casement as a "significant milestone", adding: "It represents real and tangible progress on the long-held strategic ambition of the GAA at provincial and central level to provide a modern, fit-for-purpose and iconic stadium to meet the needs of the GAA in Ulster for the next half century."

The Northern Executive is due to provide funding of £61.4 million through its sports department, with the GAA putting up funding of up to £15 million. When completed, Casement Park will be a 40,000 all-seater substantially covered stadium.

Mott MacDonald Ltd will lead a team of consultants, the integrated consultancy team (ICT), to take forward the design. It has been involved in the redesign of Wembley and the Emirates Stadium in London as well as the Olympic stadium there.

Previous plans to create a major stadium on the old Maze prison site near Lisburn to accommodate the needs of the GAA, the Irish Football Association and the Ulster Rugby Football Union did not materialise because of political disagreement.

It was decided that funding would be allocated to the different bodies, with the GAA receiving £61.4 million, the IFA £25.2 million and URFU £14.7 million.

"This represents a significant step in the progress of the stadium development programme. The upgrade of the GAA's Casement Park, rugby's Ravenhill and soccer's Windsor Park have been a key priority for both me and my department," said Ms Ní Chuilín.

"As well as the obvious benefits to sports fans that these stadiums bring, there are also the wider socio-economic benefits and employment opportunities being brought forward in these challenging economic times," the Minister added.

GAA director general Pauric Duffy, welcoming the plan, said the association's £15 million investment was a huge undertaking in the current economic climate.

"We invested something similar in Thurles as well, but that was in better times," he said.

"We will have to borrow some of the money, but to be fair, no one said 'No, we shouldn't do this'.

"From management to central council, there was not one single dissenting voice . . . Everybody wants the GAA in Ulster to have the iconic stadium it deserves."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2012, 04:02:40 AM
40,000 sounds like a decent capacity.  Any more than that and then you'd be getting into white elephant territory. For Ulster finals that are likely to draw bigger crowds (Tyrone v Armagh) you can always use Croke.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 04, 2012, 07:43:56 AM
No you just hang a sign up saying sold out
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on September 04, 2012, 08:55:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 09:02:49 PM
Sadly, the only way you'd get a big crowd of locals in Casement Park was to have a Celtic v Rangers game.

Celtic v Man Utd would probably draw a bigger crowd ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 04, 2012, 09:08:27 AM
Quote from: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

There won't be that much debt as £61.4m of it will be footed by the NI tax payer, but I agree with you point on the lack of atmosphere in a big stadium which will be almost empty most games.

Look out for Pairc ui Chaoimh, now there is a white elephant in a province with 3 30K plus stadiums in Limerick, Thurles and Killarney.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 04, 2012, 10:16:19 AM
I think Amagh would have been best suited location wise to host Ulster Finals. Its more mid Ulster, and isn't that far of a journey for most Ulster Counties. Belfast is still a 2 drive from Cavan, Counties like Tyrone, Down, Derry aren't far from Belfast, as they are Northern.

Clones was a bit of a spin from North Donegal, Derry etc, I think Armagh would have been better suited. I think the Capacitiy is only 25,00 in Armagh so thats proably why it wasn't chosen. But they coulld have chosen it as the County that would get the redeveloped, anways I'm looking forward to seeing Casement when its finished. It will be in the running to host a few games duing the RWC 2020 if Irelands gets the go ahead..



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2012, 11:12:44 AM
This stadium will be something of a white elephant. Unless Armagh, Tyrone or Down are going well that year and involved in the games you are never going to have a huge crowd there. It is poorly situated nationally for quarter finals or the like and a politics will prevent it ever being rented out to the IRFU.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 04, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 04, 2012, 11:12:44 AM
This stadium will be something of a white elephant. Unless Armagh, Tyrone or Down are going well that year and involved in the games you are never going to have a huge crowd there. It is poorly situated nationally for quarter finals or the like and a politics will prevent it ever being rented out to the IRFU.
What about Antrim and Derry you bastard?!  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on September 04, 2012, 01:22:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 04, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 04, 2012, 11:12:44 AM
This stadium will be something of a white elephant. Unless Armagh, Tyrone or Down are going well that year and involved in the games you are never going to have a huge crowd there. It is poorly situated nationally for quarter finals or the like and a politics will prevent it ever being rented out to the IRFU.
What about Antrim and Derry you b**tard?!  ;D

Let's not forget Donegal  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: maxpower on September 04, 2012, 02:08:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
I doubt if the thousands are staying away from Antrim Club games because Casement isn't all seated.

Antrim club finals are as well attended as any other county I would imagine.  Could be 7,000 at some of the recent finals. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 04, 2012, 11:56:26 PM
I thought the development of the Stadium which was being built on the Maze prison would have been Antrim's new Ground? There has been talk of that development since 2007.. what happened with that?(think alot were against it) It was suppose to be a ground share between GAA and the IFA. Would have saved if had gone through, not relying on the GAA for 17 million.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on September 05, 2012, 04:00:09 AM
Quote from: Leo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

you obviously dont know much about Armagh GAA, took them long enough to build the feckin thing but fairs fair they are using the shit out of it and proper order it is too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2012, 01:54:11 PM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on September 05, 2012, 04:00:09 AM
Quote from: Leo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

you obviously dont know much about Armagh GAA, took them long enough to build the feckin thing but fairs fair they are using the shit out of it and proper order it is too.
Parking is a bit of a nightmare in Armagh when there is a big match on. The CBS carpark was open and free of charge for the Middletown v Cuchullains match at the weekend and due to the small crowd all was good. However, they tend to charge £3 for the big football matches as far as I can see and consequently cars are abandoned everywhere from the City Hotel to Mullan's shop out the Keady Road. Who levies this charge?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 05, 2012, 04:12:18 PM
I think the Morgan Athletic grounds is an example of a ground put to good use. The stand is substantially full for county league games and county championship games. The rest of the ground is relatively inexpensive terracing which is needed for county league fixtures involving neighbours and championship games. Armagh proved a useful venue for the likes of Down v Monaghan or Tyrone. It is well down in the tables of unused GAA grounds.

As for parking, no place is going to have tens of thousands of parking spaces nearby not being used, waiting ready just for the odd game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on September 05, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: Leo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

I agree to a certain extent (minus the drama) with your sentiments. However, what is your solution?

Say Down draw Tyrone and Armagh draw Donegal next June and both want home matches. What would you do?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2012, 10:12:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 05, 2012, 04:12:18 PM
I think the Morgan Athletic grounds is an example of a ground put to good use. The stand is substantially full for county league games and county championship games. The rest of the ground is relatively inexpensive terracing which is needed for county league fixtures involving neighbours and championship games. Armagh proved a useful venue for the likes of Down v Monaghan or Tyrone. It is well down in the tables of unused GAA grounds.

As for parking, no place is going to have tens of thousands of parking spaces nearby not being used, waiting ready just for the odd game.
The Maze could have.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: saffron sam2 on September 06, 2012, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: sheamy on September 05, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: Leo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
Quote from: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

I agree to a certain extent (minus the drama) with your sentiments. However, what is your solution?

Say Down draw Tyrone and Armagh draw Donegal next June and both want home matches. What would you do?

They play on different Sundays, as is currently the case.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 06, 2012, 11:58:46 AM
or draw lots.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2012, 09:22:05 AM
Some early plans have been drawn up as part of a community consultation process, however all I can see is a yello blob has anyone got any better photos or info or was even at  the leisure centre the other night to give us more details!

http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-casement-on-show/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on November 16, 2012, 11:41:22 AM
Restaurants in the complex, traffic exclusion zone on match days??  What will this mean for the burger vans on the Andytown Road!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2012, 09:02:37 PM
QuoteWhat will this mean for the burger vans on the Andytown Road!!

Burgers, baps, sausage rolls and the like will not be allowed as they are redolent of the old Casement. The new Central African Liberation stadium will feature Ciabatta, Lángos and Pongal, espresso coffee and a range of central European beers and Chilean wines.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.


The steep tier along andytown road will definitely lend to an improved atmosphere. My only concern again would be how often it is filled. I know this topic has been discussed at great length and we would be foolish to turn down money when it is available. Would liked to have seen something around the 25k mark with a roof but perhaps that is out of the question. Will the pitch remain in the same location or shift slightly towards the andytown road as the M1 end is quite tight. Big money was spent on a media area at this end. I wonder is it to remain or be relocated?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on November 19, 2012, 09:15:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.


The steep tier along andytown road will definitely lend to an improved atmosphere. My only concern again would be how often it is filled. I know this topic has been discussed at great length and we would be foolish to turn down money when it is available. Would liked to have seen something around the 25k mark with a roof but perhaps that is out of the question. Will the pitch remain in the same location or shift slightly towards the andytown road as the M1 end is quite tight. Big money was spent on a media area at this end. I wonder is it to remain or be relocated?

Everything is going  :(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:22:23 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 19, 2012, 09:15:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.


The steep tier along andytown road will definitely lend to an improved atmosphere. My only concern again would be how often it is filled. I know this topic has been discussed at great length and we would be foolish to turn down money when it is available. Would liked to have seen something around the 25k mark with a roof but perhaps that is out of the question. Will the pitch remain in the same location or shift slightly towards the andytown road as the M1 end is quite tight. Big money was spent on a media area at this end. I wonder is it to remain or be relocated?

Everything is going  :(

I think the yellow is just the colour chosen by the design firms when doing the modelling. So would be shocked if it had yellow walls and roof ;) it looks like 2 tiers which is also surprising. I imagine the residents won't be happy about that. Is that green band in the 2nd image a corporate level??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:33:59 AM
I think the green area is corporate. The plans show the media area now to be up at the Andytown road end. Will they use all or part of the old one?, seems a waste seeing it was only constructed a few years back. I also remeber in the Irish news a couple of years ago talk about a footbridge over the motoway linking the satdium to musgrave parking to improve accessand paking etc but that has now been shelved. Posted a new thread on skyscrapercity on the subject feel free to add any other picures when they are released.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:48:25 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.

Good stuff Johnny. Have you a link to any images of the redesign of Pairc Ui Chaoimh??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 10:46:44 AM
The redesign of Pairc ui Chaoimh has very few details as yet and evertime I read any plans they seem to change. Here are some early design pictures from a while pack but they dont really give anything away

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10604

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10603

The last I read the project will be completed by 2016. It will have a capacity of 45000 which will have 2 covered seated 2 tier stands. The ends will be left open and at the moment Im not sure if they will be seated or terraced. The project will cost 67 million euro which seems a lot considering the actual work being done (Celtic park only cost 40 million a few years ago and although not perfect is light years ahead of what is being planned here). It may be a missed opportunity. I think if you spend that much money you should have top class stadium
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 19, 2012, 01:11:37 PM
The "Shed End" they are planning for the Andytown Road end probably looks worse than it is. I guess they have made that end deeper as they need the extra room for entry/exit points and location of shops etc. so makes sense to build seating above that.

Will there be any room on the site for team buses etc. per the current setup? Looks like the new stadium will take up the entire site as it stands.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2012, 01:14:10 AM
How far is it from Balmoral station to Casement? Isn't it a bit dodgy around the Balmoral stop for folk wearing GAA tops?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2012, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.

Glad to hear. I would consider the train to Casement in future.

Trains to and from Portadown - Balmoral are every hour on a Sunday, and every half hour on a Saturday.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2012, 11:07:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 20, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
Would Finaghy not be handier to Casement and def "our side". That said, Balmoral to Casement is a dead on path too.
Google Maps says 1.4 miles from Finaghy NIR to Casement and 1.2 miles from Balmoral NIR.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2012, 07:52:44 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 20, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
Does it go through Riverdale though? Also, you have to cross a set of traffic lights at Musgrave hospital and 4 sets of traffic lights at the M1 roundabout. Friggin' handlin'.
Well spotted. I selected driving instead of walking - 1.1miles from Finaghy via Riverdale.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2012, 09:50:14 AM
Is this disaster-in-waiting still supposed to be an all-seater?

If anyone of any influence is reading this - covered terracing please alongside the pitch. Have a look at the Athletic grounds or at the new Ravenhill plans. Or if you want to get really novel, have a look at some of the soccer grounds with 'safe standing', like Innsbruck, where the seats can be folded away and people stand for particular games.




Advantages:
- Another tier of pricing.
- Able to fit more people in for big games without associated cost of construction. [Note: lower cost of construction only applies for conventional terrace, not standing/seating hybrid.]
- Freedom of choice for patrons.
- Better atmosphere.

Disadvantages:
- Prawn sandwich brigade are confined to 3 stands instead of 4. [Which will not be a problem in all but the biggest of games.]
- Some people falsely belief a stadium must be all-seater to be modern. [Look in the mirror.]
- The soccer bunch would not be able to use the covered terrace.[Which will not be a problem with Windsor getting a revamp as well.]

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: offtheground on November 21, 2012, 10:34:16 AM
Agree with radiogaagaa, 'safe standing' is a great idea;

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 05, 2012, 05:24:20 PM
Work due to start in January. Still no proper images/fly throughs of the stadium??

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=182050
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 05, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
The first images of the new Casement Park will be available tonight at 8pm.

www.casementpark.ie (http://www.casementpark.ie)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on February 05, 2013, 05:15:13 PM
Answer me this.

What is happening the floodlights? Are they being retained? They're relatively new so it would be a shame if they were replaced.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 05, 2013, 05:19:53 PM
i would say those lights will be gone the new lights i believe will be incorporated into the new roof. Prob give them to someother county or club ground. Any county in Ulster not have floodlights?  Clones?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on February 05, 2013, 05:58:59 PM
good idea snoopdog . because of messing by our county board and the ulster council the only county without t.v.quality lights and it seems that the grant scheme has expired.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
Impressive render

(http://i50.tinypic.com/o0s1uw.png)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: redcard on February 05, 2013, 08:22:20 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
Impressive render

(http://i50.tinypic.com/o0s1uw.png)

Not the same without those adorable casement park stewards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 05, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Uncovered at two ends?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 05, 2013, 08:36:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 05, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Uncovered at two ends?

Yeah. I believe that was stated before Christmas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 05, 2013, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
Impressive render

(http://i50.tinypic.com/o0s1uw.png)
That's some crowd for an Antrim/Down hurling game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 05, 2013, 08:50:06 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 05, 2013, 08:36:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 05, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Uncovered at two ends?

Yeah. I believe that was stated before Christmas.
Probably necessary considering how close houses are, especially at the back end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on February 05, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
That's good I reckon, leaving the ends uncovered gives a good frame for Black Mountain in the background.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 05, 2013, 08:55:34 PM
Given that Casement is still due to host the Monaghan game this summer, I'm assuming the schedule is sliding? It could well be 2017 before it's finished.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on February 06, 2013, 12:27:12 PM
Why is every player in this half of the field running towards the square?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Winnie Peg on February 06, 2013, 12:34:20 PM
A beautiful stadium which the paid Ulster GAA officials will take great pride in but another white elephant which the ordinary GAA person will be paying for in 50 years time. From a financial viewpoint, it is totally untenable and will be open and only 25% full on less days than the union jack will be flying on the city hall.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: PAULD123 on February 06, 2013, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
Impressive render

(http://i50.tinypic.com/o0s1uw.png)

Some game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2013, 01:52:20 PM
QuoteSome game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!

The goalie and 2 other Antrim players are wrestling with 4 Down players at the corner flag just off the right of the picture!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on February 06, 2013, 01:55:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2013, 01:52:20 PM
QuoteSome game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!

The goalie and 2 other Antrim players are wrestling with 4 Down players at the corner flag just off the right of the picture!

At least three Antrim men with no helmets on too, is the ref not paying attention at all!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on February 06, 2013, 01:57:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2013, 01:52:20 PM
QuoteSome game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!

The goalie and 2 other Antrim players are wrestling with 4 Down players at the corner flag just off the right of the picture!

That's Liam Clarke at the edge of the 6 yard area. Liam has never been that far up the pitch in his life.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tommysmith on February 06, 2013, 02:02:34 PM
Whats the cost of this project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: southdown on February 06, 2013, 02:02:46 PM
Forget all the negative comments.  That is a great looking stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Stall the Bailer on February 06, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
No big square in the future either. Who suggested these new rules?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 06, 2013, 03:19:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on February 06, 2013, 12:27:12 PM
Why is every player in this half of the field running towards the square?

You haven't seen much Ulster hurling, have you Hardy!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:40:06 PM
The stadium looks great and it would be fantastic to have such a state of the art stadium in ulster. Cant see it being viable at all though, unless it is used for other sports or concerts etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on February 06, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
£76m and no ball stops
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Stall the Bailer on February 06, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
Quote from: sheamy on February 06, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
£76m and no ball stops
Sure they couldn't even paint a black spot on the crossbar.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 06, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Impressive design but the Anderstown road end leaves a lot to be desired! Why no cover on this end!! With our weather this is madness. No one will want to be exposed to the elements.

Still feel at 40k it's a bit big. Would love to have seen it modelled along the lines of the Forsythe Barr stadium in New Zealand (see link). 30k capacity, breathable roof with natural turf. Cost in the region of 100 million pounds. 25 million more than the current proposal.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=rugby+stadium+dunedin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|BJSeN42h74v5iM:
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 06, 2013, 07:15:18 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 06, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Impressive design but the Anderstown road end leaves a lot to be desired! Why no cover on this end!! With our weather this is madness. No one will want to be exposed to the elements.

Still feel at 40k it's a bit big. Would love to have seen it modelled along the lines of the Forsythe Barr stadium in New Zealand (see link). 30k capacity, breathable roof with natural turf. Cost in the region of 100 million pounds. 25 million more than the current proposal.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=rugby+stadium+dunedin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|BJSeN42h74v5iM:

That's hideous looking.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2013, 07:48:16 PM
It's only open at one end

(http://i48.tinypic.com/dwp6x.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 08:12:09 PM
I dunno lads; looks we like a soccer stadium to me......... Give me an oul tin roof with oul lads leaning over a barrier chatting about an u-10 game chewing straw any day.
(http://munster.gaa.ie/wp-content/themes/munster/uploads//2010_coachingconference6-640x248.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 06, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Looks fantastic, built for concerts id say with the open end for a stage. Mini croker.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 06, 2013, 08:48:19 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 06, 2013, 07:15:18 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 06, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Impressive design but the Anderstown road end leaves a lot to be desired! Why no cover on this end!! With our weather this is madness. No one will want to be exposed to the elements.

Still feel at 40k it's a bit big. Would love to have seen it modelled along the lines of the Forsythe Barr stadium in New Zealand (see link). 30k capacity, breathable roof with natural turf. Cost in the region of 100 million pounds. 25 million more than the current proposal.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=rugby+stadium+dunedin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|BJSeN42h74v5iM:

That's hideous looking.

Everyone to their own! I just think this is a rather lazy design, with the GAA again more concerned with capacity than adaptability!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on February 06, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
Looks good but where is the car & coach park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 06, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
Looks good but where is the car & coach park?

Up in the waste ground beside the pd; a couple of local youths in celtic tops will be charging two euro a piece to make sure your vehicle is secure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 06, 2013, 09:19:38 PM
The Wolfe Tones will pack a quare few in there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 09:46:00 PM
Great for political demonstrations and commemorations too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
QuoteGreat for political demonstrations and commemorations too.

Do you think they will have the next "Ulster" day there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: laoislad on February 06, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 06, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
Very very impressive stadium. Will Ulster finals be played here? Clones will never get a game then
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: ONeill on February 06, 2013, 09:19:38 PM
The Wolfe Tones will pack a quare few in there.

They are doing their 245th anniversary concert there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 10:20:31 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

One day a year it will be filled as you say, no other days. Ah well it has been but for the next 50 years so their could be an I crease in people attending GAA matches so maybe it will help come then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 06, 2013, 10:22:53 PM
Will there be a new hotel as part of the developement ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 06, 2013, 10:24:59 PM
Capacity confirmed at 38k, perfect IMO
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 06, 2013, 10:59:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 06, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

When will games start at Ibrox?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:06:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 06, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

Why is it called Ibrox?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 06, 2013, 11:07:21 PM
Only the Rossa ones call it that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 06, 2013, 11:11:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 10:29:45 PM
Quote from: laoislad on February 06, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

Did they ever reopen the stand in Corrigan after it was closed due to the Johnnies & Lamhs fans knocking f**k out of each other during a senior championship match a few years ago ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on February 06, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
i have no problem home to pitch in 7 minutes and my bother can make it in 2. Personally i will miss the big day in clones but i would say that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 06, 2013, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on February 06, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
i have no problem home to pitch in 7 minutes and my bother can make it in 2. Personally i will miss the big day in clones but i would say that

Ill not miss Clones. An awful town to access. A trip up the motorway to Casement should be a better experience for everyone
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on February 06, 2013, 11:38:51 PM
Quote from: ck on February 06, 2013, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on February 06, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
i have no problem home to pitch in 7 minutes and my bother can make it in 2. Personally i will miss the big day in clones but i would say that

Ill not miss Clones. An awful town to access. A trip up the motorway to Casement should be a better experience for everyone
not everyone not cavan fermanagh monaghan parts of armagh parts of tyrone but its a done deal and not one thing can or will be done to move the development out of casement(progress?) . as you may have worked out my home club is clones and have had a long and happy memories of ulster finals . I do wonder how this will be paid for in the long term and hope that it doesnt end up being an albatross around clubs necks as i imagine that there will be minimum attendants figures to make the place viable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 07, 2013, 12:32:11 PM
Casement will get the odd league final and the odd All Irleand Quarter id assume. Clones will still get an Ulster Semi every year. If some of the so called Gaels in Ireland would get up of their arses and support their county instead of only going to big games we could have a few more of these stadiums around the country, but the GAA do themselves no favours by playing down the league and the qualifiers.
Whether its used or not its great for Ulster football to have such a showpiece stadium, with 75 % of the cash coming from her majesty. No brainer for the GAA, you could pump 17 million into Clones and it still wouldnt be enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on February 07, 2013, 12:37:59 PM
It's the running costs and rates that will be the problem longer term. It's relatively easy to get the capital to build something. Sustaining it is always a bigger problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2013, 01:35:54 PM
QuoteCasement will get the odd league final and the odd All Irleand Quarter id assume.

Casement is simply not well located for such events, just as the likes of Wexford Park isn't. Unless a league or quarter final involves two of about 5 counties then there is no real advantage in playing games there. Perhaps it could be used for Dublin v Donegal, but people with boxes in Croke Park are not keen for such games to be elsewhere.

It is a no-brainer with the financial arrangements, but still a bit of a white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 07, 2013, 10:47:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2013, 01:35:54 PM
QuoteCasement will get the odd league final and the odd All Irleand Quarter id assume.

Casement is simply not well located for such events, just as the likes of Wexford Park isn't. Unless a league or quarter final involves two of about 5 counties then there is no real advantage in playing games there. Perhaps it could be used for Dublin v Donegal, but people with boxes in Croke Park are not keen for such games to be elsewhere.

It is a no-brainer with the financial arrangements, but still a bit of a white elephant.

Not just a white elephant  - ANOTHER white elephant among the GAA stadia of Ulster (Park Esler, Healy, Celtic) that will only ever stage a capacity crowd once every couple of years (if that). These ego projects are diverting money from genuine games development. What we need are family friendly grounds, capacity around 10,000 max, proper covered accommodation and family-orientated facilities, in each county - with one central provincial venue for ALL major games, capacity about 30,000. Not gonna happen now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on February 07, 2013, 11:40:42 PM
The economically nonviable statelet most of us in Ulster live in has better things to be spending money on than a 40,000 seater stadium in the suburbs of Belfast. It won't add much to the economy of West Belfast, apart from a few bumper days for a few pubs. It will arguably be less able to deal with traffic than Clones - we could be walking half way to Lisburn to get to the cars on the one day a year it will be full. Less, not more, people are going to matches. It's a trophy to lobbyists that have campaigned for it years. As others have said in the thread there are enough good venues, including Casement as it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 08, 2013, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: babarino on February 07, 2013, 11:40:42 PM
The economically nonviable statelet most of us in Ulster live in has better things to be spending money on than a 40,000 seater stadium in the suburbs of Belfast. It won't add much to the economy of West Belfast, apart from a few bumper days for a few pubs. It will arguably be less able to deal with traffic than Clones - we could be walking half way to Lisburn to get to the cars on the one day a year it will be full. Less, not more, people are going to matches. It's a trophy to lobbyists that have campaigned for it years. As others have said in the thread there are enough good venues, including Casement as it is.

I agree that it is too big and have argued (see previous posts) that it should be more adaptable for use by the local community! However I think it was a take it or leave it grant from the British govt for one major stadium to be built. I don't think the GAA had the option of putting say 30 million into the current casement and dividing the remainder up for promoting the games at grass roots!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 08, 2013, 10:44:44 AM
Why are people still giving out about this. The GAA were given 70 odd million from the British government to build a stadium and that is what they are doing. dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
The Soccer and Rugby are also doing the same with thier money. Seen the new windsor its also gonna be a lovely stadium, Ravenhill not so much, but a roof at all ends.
Ive said it before if the GAA bothered to promote the game the way Rugby does the likes of Newry Healy Celtic and Casement would have no bother attracting the crowds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 08, 2013, 11:06:58 AM
As I said the GAA should not look a gift horse in the mouth.
There are two things. It is a pity that a Cardiff style roof is not possible, accepting that this is difficult on the bigger GAA pitch. Secondly it would be helpful if the ground had a Croke Park like status that could allow other sports be played there the odd time, which would help relations in the Belfast context. Say if an important winter Ulster rugby game could be switched to a roofed Casement.

I think comparisons with Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Pk etc area bit overdone. These grounds have decent stands and inexpensive terraces for the infrequent big crowds. The stand in the Athletic Grounds would be substantially full for a variety of games,  intercounty fixtures, club double-headers, etc and not just once a year. The attendance at Antrim league games will not fill one quarter of these stands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with an Ulster rugby game at Casement but it wouldn't sit easy if Jamie Bryson was dancing in front of the Andersonstown Road end dressed as Footie!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 08, 2013, 02:59:54 PM
Sambo Stall
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2013, 03:08:19 PM
In the spirit of the Association how about:

The Volunteers' Stand
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 08, 2013, 03:14:55 PM
They'll have to honour former managers:

Baker Bradley's Baked Spuds So It Is
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2013, 03:26:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 08, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
Hippy's Chippy.

with Mushy Peas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 12, 2013, 12:12:45 PM
The Ulster GAA are looking feedback for the Casement Park Project.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/R8F2K63 (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/R8F2K63)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2013, 07:11:36 PM
Just completed the survey.  I asked what they're doing about parking. Also, what's up with the random triangles on the trusses on the roof?  Aren't they going to cast some strange shadows on the pitch during games?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 20, 2013, 07:47:44 PM
I see Windsor Park has got planning approval. Good clip on BBC news of Balex Attwood atvthe press photocall dressed in NI shirt and toe tapping a football
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 21, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Craigyhill Terror on February 21, 2013, 11:21:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 08, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
Hippy's Chippy.

The two Donnellys should just move the butcher's shop down from Ballycastle, or set up a new grill:
Hippy Hippy Steaks
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 21, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 21, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on February 21, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 21, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call
Precisely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 23, 2013, 07:49:03 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on February 21, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 21, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call

Well no. When Windsor and Ravenhill were at the stage Casement's at now, it was all over the news.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 23, 2013, 08:35:47 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 23, 2013, 07:49:03 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on February 21, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 21, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call

Well no. When Windsor and Ravenhill were at the stage Casement's at now, it was all over the news.
Prove it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 24, 2013, 11:45:17 AM
Unfortunately I don't have access to the BBC's and UTV's archives. I did look on iPlayer and UTV Player.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 27, 2013, 09:02:56 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21607854



A Casement Park residents' group has accused the GAA of giving "misleading and factually inaccurate information" over the redevelopment of the stadium.

A group of local residents, called the Mooreland Owenvarragh Residents Association, are concerned about the height of the proposed new 38,000 all-seater stadium in west Belfast.
The potential shadow impact on local housing is another issue being raised.
The group claim their concerns have not been seriously addressed by the GAA.
The residents' group (MORA), which is being chaired by former Down hurling manager John Crossey, is calling for a meeting with the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

The group has held several meetings with the GAA in the last 12 months over the proximity of the £76m redevelopment project to local housing, and the impact it will have on the community and quality of life of local residents.
"Although it is the case that the meetings have been professional and genial, the Association remains concerned that issues raised on behalf of local people have not been seriously addressed by the GAA," said Crossey.

The residents are disappointed with plans to facilitate access for organisers through a tunnel entrance which goes through a small cul-de-sac in Mooreland Park.
The residents' group, which was formed in 2012, has already met with similar groups which sprung up during the redevelopment of Croke Park and the Aviva Stadium in Dublin.
They have held meetings with local political representatives, including the Environment Minister Alex Atwood, but DCAL Minister Caral Ni Chuilin has as yet not agreed to meet with the residents' group.

"A visual impact survey has not been carried out, despite a request from MORA on a number of occasions, and a shadow impact survey has still not been carried out, despite repeated requests," Crossey added.
A public consultation process is currently underway until April 2013, after which a community consultation report on the stadium will be published.

The Ulster Council pledged to build a stadium that will enhance the local community when it unveiled plans for the rebuild at a launch in the City Hall in early February.
The stadium will be built with the help of government funding (£62m) and the GAA's Central Council (£14m).
The GAA hope the new stadium will be ready before the end of 2016
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 27, 2013, 09:17:26 PM
Is that bollix Hardstation causing issues again?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2013, 05:54:59 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 27, 2013, 09:17:26 PM
Is that bollix Hardstation causing issues again?

No John Crossey, ex Antrim hurler and manager to any team that will take him!! Surprised (though he lives there ) that he'd prefer Casement not to be redeveloped, probably impacts on a lot of residents who have used their back yards as access points (for a few quid) to get into Casement!! Oh they were the days, up a ladder and into Casement, we'd a mate (purely for this reason) who'd we call into on big match day Sunday's and climb over!! Even called when he was living in the states on year!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on March 26, 2013, 08:27:00 PM
The latest image of the proposed redevelopment of Casement Park.

(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/casement-park_2013-03-26_zps56d370cf.jpg)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2013, 08:38:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!
Have to agree. It wouldn't be so bad if the open end was a terrace but to have an open seated area is a mistake in my opinion
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armaghgeddon on March 26, 2013, 08:43:57 PM
I quite like it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:45:41 PM
With our worsening weather I think an open end is pointless. I'd have preferred a reduced capacity and fully covered, if not a roof!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 26, 2013, 09:28:53 PM
Are you allowed to light up a feg in the stand?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 18, 2013, 10:42:01 AM
A new image of the Casement Park redevelopment concept with be tweeted from @CasementPark (http://www.twitter.com/casementpark) at 4.00pm.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 18, 2013, 10:48:28 AM
I see Crusaders have made it to the high court in their attempt to mount a legal challenge to the Windsor park development giving Linfield an unfair advantage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22190984 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22190984)

I hope this has no direct impact on Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on April 18, 2013, 06:30:33 PM
No linfield would never play at casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 18, 2013, 07:57:44 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 18, 2013, 10:48:28 AM
I hope this has no direct impact on Casement.

According to the BBC, it shouldn't affect Casement Park or Ravenhill.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 18, 2013, 08:45:20 PM
I've nothing against the new Casement, as long as Antrim isn't allowed use it more than everyone else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2013, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 18, 2013, 08:45:20 PM
I've nothing against the new Casement, as long as Antrim isn't allowed use it more than everyone else.

I'll get to play for the over 40's if it gets going again, though by the time it gets built I'll be in my 50's ffs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on April 19, 2013, 10:14:51 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 18, 2013, 10:42:01 AM
A new image of the Casement Park redevelopment concept with be tweeted from @CasementPark (http://www.twitter.com/casementpark) at 4.00pm.
No sign of them and the posts have been removed, maybe design changes as a result of the community consultation days?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 28, 2013, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 28, 2013, 10:11:29 AM
Quote from: snatter on April 28, 2013, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.
The site is a joke for the capacity they are talking about.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on April 28, 2013, 10:38:37 AM
I agree
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
I'm for it, yes there is going to be upheaval and disruptions and residents aren't going to be happy, but to just say no to a state of the art arena is madness. It will create jobs for a lot of local builders hopefully, also with concerts and big games the local shops, bars and eateries should make a few pound extra on match days that hey would never have got. I loved the grassy banks as much as the last next guy, sitting in the sun (when it used to shine) few cans, bitta banter with the country men but its time to move on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 28, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
........ but its time to move on.

Agreed, but let's spend this once in a century windfall on getting as good a stadium as we can get. You can't get close if you start on a site that's too small.

Long term, you can't get the revenue you need unless you host concerts. If the residents object to a roof, then they'll scupper concerts as well. Especially if an arterial route like the Andttown Rd has to be closed for hours on end.

With no concerts, this eill cost the gaa
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 02:50:37 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 28, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
........ but its time to move on.

Agreed, but let's spend this once in a century windfall on getting as good a stadium as we can get. You can't get close if you start on a site that's too small.

Long term, you can't get the revenue you need unless you host concerts. If the residents object to a roof, then they'll scupper concerts as well. Especially if an arterial route like the Andttown Rd has to be closed for hours on end.

With no concerts, this eill cost the gaa

Yes its too tight and infrastructure is poor enough but there is no other option for the money to be used, It's Casement and nowhere else. The underground parking will be a good idea, the likes of concerts I'm sure will seem difficult but plenty of stadiums that have concerts and they don't have problems, Croke Park being one of them
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 28, 2013, 03:16:01 PM
Not forgetting the Athletic Grounds!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on April 28, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 28, 2013, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.


I have no idea what this means.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 04:22:37 AM
Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 29, 2013, 07:29:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 04:22:37 AM
Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.

"Tall buildings" are not usually built in residential areas, on people's doorsteps.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 28, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 28, 2013, 09:52:20 AM

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.



I have no idea what this means.

woops, I was a bit slack on the swype there. Should have read

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be closed for several hours on event days in order to create dispersal space for crowds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 02:50:37 PM
Yes its too tight and infrastructure is poor enough but there is no other option for the money to be used, It's Casement and nowhere else.

A half truth at best. The funding conditions say that the money must be spent on one single stadium.
There's nothing to say that the single stadium must be at Casement or any other site.

It's the GAA that chose Caement, after having been given a bit of a bum steer by consultants to say that it could accommodate a 40k fully seated fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't.

And the constrained size means that the finished result will be far inferior to what could have been built on a properly sized site.

Inferior in terms of capacity.

Inferior in terms of comfort - ffs what's worse than sitting in the rain.

Inferior views of pitch because the site can't support the modern bowl design.

Inferior in terms of paying for upkeep - if we're not able to hold concerts, we, the gaa supporters, will end up paying a lot more for the thing. The wrap round bowl design also means less room for specators to circulate and spend money on bars/cafes, etc. That costs us too.

Inferior design - instead of a landmark building that advertises the GAA's strengthend presence in Belfast, we get something low rise, tucked in behind housing. The stands will be different sizes, and the ground will look more like a 1980's stadium.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 02:50:37 PM
the likes of concerts I'm sure will seem difficult but plenty of stadiums that have concerts and they don't have problems, Croke Park being one of them

There won't be any concerts if the residents object. If they can object to the roof, they'll object to concerts, not only because of the noise and crowds, but for the fact that the main arterial A'town Rd (meant to be getting the rapid transport thing) would be closed for hours.

-------

In principle, I fully support the stadium being in Ulster's largest city, but it only makes sense if the stadium is on a suitable site to maximise income.

Can anybody think of any decent sized sites in Gtr Belfast that would be more suitable? In the UK and here in Cork, city authorities have no problems handing parks over  to allow new stadia to be built. They see it as good for the city as a whole.  The same should be done here.

I can't see any good reason for not pausing this project in order to get a better site, preferably gifted by the city. Then we'd get a better stadium, and it could pay for its upkeep in the long term.

As things stand, after the initial buzz dies down, people will soon come to realise that the GAA should have built somewhere else to get a better result.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on April 29, 2013, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: snatter on April 29, 2013, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 28, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 28, 2013, 09:52:20 AM

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.



I have no idea what this means.

woops, I was a bit slack on the swype there. Should have read

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be closed for several hours on event days in order to create dispersal space for crowds.
If only Andytown Rd could be 'clawed'.
'dispersal space' is an interesting term.

A 38,000 seater stadium for ca Eur 85m sounds like a good deal, compared to the Lansdowne rd 55,000 for Eur380m.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium. other areas could be at the top of the Mona by pass, the travellers have gone and there is plenty space with not too much housing.

The Falls Park could be an option also

Belfast is built up in most areas so it's always going to be difficult to keep people happy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's
All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 29, 2013, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 29, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

  • closer to the railway stations
not by much
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital
    • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
    Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road
    • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
    maybe
    • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
    maybe
    • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
    parks might be protected land.
    All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
[/list]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 29, 2013, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 29, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

  • closer to the railway stations
not by much
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital
    • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
    Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road
    • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
    maybe
    • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
    maybe
    • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
    parks might be protected land.
    All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
[/list]

The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 29, 2013, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 29, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

  • closer to the railway stations
not by much  still closer
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  None of whom are anywhere near as close to the stadium as Casement residents are. Potential for huge buffer zone. Hospital is almost certainly to be downgraded/closed over next few years. Any remainder health functions could be carried out on much smaller site.
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital    Hospital is almost certainly to be downgraded/closed over next few years. Any remainder health functions could be carried out on much smaller site, or even share site of stadium
    • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
    Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road   perhaps, BUT there's no need to close it as the crowds can safely disperse within the confines  of Musgrave Pk itself
    • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
    maybe
    • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
    maybe
    • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
    parks might be protected land.   Already zoned recreational, any further change of use would be approved in context of overall planning gain of having a top class regioanl stadium
    All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
[/list]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

Not true, SF/SDLP & Alliance (&GAA,IRFU and even IFA) were all in favour of shared stadium. Dissenters were alliance of NI Supporters clubs, DUP, & UUP.

SF,SDLP and Alliance now hold balance of power, and should do what's right for Belfast as a city,which in this case is to facilitate a top class, fully covered stadium, that could, with the GAA's approval be used for other events, that would financially benefit the GAA and Belfast city as a whole.

And for clarity, Casement will not be a top class stadium. The constrained site guarantees it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
Lads there are 100 different ways to do anything. Just because we have a notion that our way is the best please act with a little humility and assume other options have been taken into account and assessed. Some people have worked long and hard to make casement an option. I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:49:01 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 29, 2013, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

Not true, SF/SDLP & Alliance (&GAA,IRFU and even IFA) were all in favour of shared stadium. Dissenters were alliance of NI Supporters clubs, DUP, & UUP.

SF,SDLP and Alliance now hold balance of power, and should do what's right for Belfast as a city,which in this case is to facilitate a top class, fully covered stadium, that could, with the GAA's approval be used for other events, that would financially benefit the GAA and Belfast city as a whole.

And for clarity, Casement will not be a top class stadium. The constrained site guarantees it.

I was referring simply to the MLA's/ Councillors in general, that they couldnt agree.

Casement does not need to be a world class stadium as it will never be hosting world class events, it was a project by Ulster Council which pays lip service to their pathetic attitude to the second biggest city and promotion of the games within it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 05:10:26 PM
Quote from: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
please act with a little humility
Afaics we have - I can see no personally directed posts here, never mind abusive ones. The purpose of a discussion board is to discuss, express opinion, preferably backed up with some clearly reasoned logic, etc.

More open and reasoned discussion about the pros and cons can only be healthy.
If nobody questions, then you can easliy end up with an Emperors New Clothes situation.

It's important to make positive contributions - hence Milltown / my own promotion of the Musgrave Pk site. It is notable that there haven't been that many supportive posts of the current scheme, maybe a new stadium with no roof makes that difficult.

Quote from: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
assume other options have been taken into account and assessed.
The Ulster Council did tell us that external consultants did undertake a site assessment exercise. Whether that included Musgrave, or other Belfast sites, we don't know because the findings of the consultation weren't published.

What we do know, because the Ulster council did tell us, is that the assessment picked Casement on the basis that a  40k fully covered stadium could be built there.

We now know that assessment is wrong, the site is too constrained to deliver what it was meant to deliver. The original spec called for an exemplar best of breed landmark building. We now know that the site is too small to deliver that as well. There's a myriad of other drawbacks that all stem from the inadequate site size.

Quote from: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
Some people have worked long and hard to make Casement an option.

Nobody could seriously question the commitment and devotion of the GAA figures behind the project. They haven't done anything fundamentally wrong.  They were wrongly advised that the site could host a 40k fully covered stadium. It can't.

It's my opinion that, now we know that there will never be a roof over the A'town Rd end,  the project should now be halted for further review. If planning problems delay the project, we should push back on the artificial spending deadline imposed, to  give time to explore other sites. Both within and beyond Belfast, if Belfast CC don't see fit to grant us a site.

Quote from: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.
That would be a retrogade step. Cities, and communities within them should be fighting  to get our stadia, given the economic benefits they bring. Bribing residents opens the floodgates for long term extortion. Either they want us, or they don't. If they don't, we should pack our bags and build on a better site where our investment is truly welcome.

We should spend our cash on building good facilities that will serve the GAA community for decades to come. The needs of the GAA should be paramount.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:49:01 PM

Casement does not need to be a world class stadium as it will never be hosting world class events

Not world class, no, but top class yes.*

Remember that the tender specs called for something along the lines of an exemplar best of breed 40k fully covered stadium. That's what the budget was meant to deliver.

Since then, in the words of the GAA,**

Quote
"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."

"We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"



These changes, espcially the removal of the roof at the Andytown Rd end, leave a stadium that is far from the exemplar building it was meant to be. Just how many people want to sit in the rain in a brand new £70 million stadium?

Once the roof was removed, a stop should have been made to look for alternative sites.


*As an aside, it is being lined up to host the Rugby World Cup.

** source: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 29, 2013, 07:29:15 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 04:22:37 AM
Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.

"Tall buildings" are not usually built in residential areas, on people's doorsteps.

In the country? No. In cities? Yes they are.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 05:44:57 PM
How many people are going to go to Casement in its present form and sit in the rain rather than under a ... oh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 29, 2013, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
Lads there are 100 different ways to do anything. Just because we have a notion that our way is the best please act with a little humility and assume other options have been taken into account and assessed. Some people have worked long and hard to make casement an option. I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.
Why would you 'assume' that other options have been assessed?

I don't know, so best not to assume, but I never heard anything to suggest that an alternative site was considered in any options appraisal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 30, 2013, 12:07:01 PM
Some highly critical comments on Casement's poor "Optimum Viewing Circles" from somebody who appears to know what they're talking about on an architecture forum

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

Quote

I actually thought that once the GAA appointed Populous to design Casement Park stadium I thought we'd get a truly great stadium as these guys have so much experience in sport stadium design.

The first thing that jumped out at me is the fact that the stadium has no continuity. None of the stands are the same size, not one, even all the four corners are different sizes. To me this just looks silly and will take away from the aesthetics of any stadium. Even Croke Park and the Aviva look terrible, and they have unity on three sides.
The fact that the Andersonstown Road Stand is so big shouts out to be that they needed to increase the capacity to get it up to 40,000. So they just kept going back until the numbers added up. This is terrible design. The viewing distance from the back of this stand will be far to large.

In the case of a gaelic football the preferred viewing distance should be no more than 150m between the extreme corner of the field and spectator's eye, with an absolute maximum of 190m. Setting out these distances from the extreme viewing positions, such as the diagonally opposed corners of a playing field, gives a preferred viewing zone and their average configuration suggests a circle struck from the centre spot on the field, generally referred to as the 'optimum viewing circle. This circle in the case of football and rugby would have a radius of 90m.

This might sound complicated stuff but i'm sure the people at Populous know this, and if they don't they are in the wrong business. What this means is that well over half the capacity of the Andersonstown Road Stand will be outside the optimum viewing circle. The largest stands should run along the side of the pitch in the long direction.

This isn't good enough for a modern stadium.




Quote

It will definitely not be a modern stadium if the entire thing is not roofed. I hate having a ticket in Croke Park on the lower tier of the cusack stand when it rains, and lets face it we live in Ireland .. It rains
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 30, 2013, 04:16:17 PM
It's some guy with 6 posts on that forum - hardly someone who "knows what they are talking about" - hell I post there and I know feck all about architecture
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 30, 2013, 04:19:38 PM
"To me this just looks silly "
must be architect jargon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on May 22, 2013, 10:02:08 AM
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/BK25oNdCMAApwmvjpg-large_zps4bbf511b.jpeg)

Artist's impression of new Casement Park stadium from the Andersonstown Road.

(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/BK20yygCQAAWKUdjpg-large_zps114fecd3.jpeg)

1:250 scale model of Casement Park, available for viewing and feedback in Westwood Centre.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/05/final-phase-of-consultation-for-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/05/final-phase-of-consultation-for-casement-park-project/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on May 22, 2013, 10:46:37 AM
I'd hate to get sitting behind that lad with the balloons.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
That open end is brutal!! Christ I wonder about these "designers" some times.

I'm no fan of the Aviva but could that open not have been looked at with a covered single tier instead of this!!

No one will want to be in that end of the ground!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tommysmith on May 22, 2013, 11:08:43 AM
What is the point in having open end open, is that side terraced?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: southdown on May 22, 2013, 11:28:55 AM
I  personally like the open terrace, it will promote a good atmosphere akin to that of Hill 16. The ground looks great.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
Its open seating so won't add to the atmosphere in any way!

Only purpose it will serve is people getting soaked!

I'm not being negative as the rest of the ground looks superb!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 11:54:42 AM
Maybe it's a big smoking area.

That's where the young bucks get the hurling balls and take off like the wind with them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on May 22, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
I like it.  Great to see it moving forward.  I wouldnt worry about seating on the open planned area though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
No one will want to be in that end of the ground!
Will ye get anyone in any end at all?
500 at the NFL game v Ros and 300 of them were from Ros .

Is there anywhere to park a car within miles of the place?

Anyway best of luck with it  - and could ye send us a few € or £s even to buy a digital scoreboard.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 22, 2013, 11:08:43 AM
What is the point in having open end open, is that side terraced?

In a nutshell, the reason is that the site is too small.

This was meant to be a 40k fully covered stadium, but the site hasn't the width to accommodate enough people in the two main stands either side of the pitch. This is where you want them to be, because that is where more people get the best possible views of the pitch (see Optimum Viewing Circle definition [1]).

To get the capacity up to 38k (still short of the original 40k), more people have to be shoved behind the goals the A'town Road, regardless of the fact that most of these people will, for a modern stadium, have a dreadful viewing experience. Again, read the Optimum Viewing Circle link below.

To compound things, to put a roof over this A'town rd stand would block out the daylight to residents in the apartments opposite, who complained strongly, and the planned roof was dropped in response to their complaints. (look at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744 to see the  original rough plans with the roof over teh A'town Rd end.)

So we end up with this awful A'town Rd stand with a crap view and no roof. An awful mistake and one that can never be rectified.

Far better to pick a big enough site and start again. £75 Million should deliver the full 40k fully covered, all with an optimal view on any site big enough.


[1]For full details on Optimum Viewing Circles, read this stadium design book and have a look at the diagrams of the Emirates Stadium to see how it should be done. 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55405252/57/Viewing-distances
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
When are they due to begin the redevelopment, September is it? The Antrim - Monaghan game is in Casement
And when do they expect to have it complete. It looks fairly impressive. All Ulster Finals will be in Casement when it's done I think?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: tommysmith on May 22, 2013, 11:08:43 AM
What is the point in having open end open, is that side terraced?

In a nutshell, the reason is that the site is too small.

This was meant to be a 40k fully covered stadium, but the site hasn't the width to accommodate enough people in the two main stands either side of the pitch. This is where you want them to be, because that is where more people get the best possible views of the pitch (see Optimum Viewing Circle definition [1]).

To get the capacity up to 38k (still short of the original 40k), more people have to be shoved behind the goals the A'town Road, regardless of the fact that most of these people will, for a modern stadium, have a dreadful viewing experience. Again, read the Optimum Viewing Circle link below.

To compound things, to put a roof over this A'town rd stand would block out the daylight to residents in the apartments opposite, who complained strongly, and the planned roof was dropped in response to their complaints. (look at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744 to see the  original rough plans with the roof over teh A'town Rd end.)

So we end up with this awful A'town Rd stand with a crap view and no roof. An awful mistake and one that can never be rectified.

Far better to pick a big enough site and start again. £75 Million should deliver the full 40k fully covered, all with an optimal view on any site big enough.


[1]For full details on Optimum Viewing Circles, read this stadium design book and have a look at the diagrams of the Emirates Stadium to se how it should be done. 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55405252/57/Viewing-distances


So if the reason behind the uncovered end is due to daylight reducution then how come it passed on the other 3 sides?? If anything I would have thought the houses at the rear of the current stand lie closer to the proposed development than those on the Andytown road!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 02:45:42 PM

So if the reason behind the uncovered end is due to daylight reducution then how come it passed on the other 3 sides?? If anything I would have thought the houses at the rear of the current stand lie closer to the proposed development than those on the Andytown road!!

The stand roof would had to have been much higher than the others, because (unbelievably for a new stadium) the A'town Rd stand behind the goals would be much deeper than the others.

The GAA confirmed that the roof had been dropped in order to appease objecting residents ( go back a page in this thread for proof ).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Would like to have you as an estimator 200m  ::)

The plan is to go ahead on the casement site, end of.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Fair enough, you know more about it then me
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Would like to have you as an estimator 200m  ::)

The plan is to go ahead on the casement site, end of.

fair enough, I measured it on google maps and came up with 329.966 m
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
I'm not sure that's right about the residents of the apartments, snatter. The only resident complaints I've heard have come from MORA who are as far as I'm aware, really only interested in the other 3 sides.

They're now only interested in the other 3 sides because the GAA has capitulated already over the A'town rd end.

I got a tweeted confirmation from the A'town News sports reporter about two months ago.

And two weeks ago, the GAA said it had changed the orignal plans for a roof over the A'town Rd end to appease residents

Quote
"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."

"We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"


full article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 02:45:42 PM

So if the reason behind the uncovered end is due to daylight reducution then how come it passed on the other 3 sides?? If anything I would have thought the houses at the rear of the current stand lie closer to the proposed development than those on the Andytown road!!

The stand roof would had to have been much higher than the others, because (unbelievably for a new stadium) the A'town Rd stand behind the goals would be much deeper than the others.

The GAA confirmed that the roof had been dropped in order to appease objecting residents ( go back a page in this thread for proof ).

As I previously said if they had along the lines of the Aviva and put one covered tier along the Andytown road that would have been visually much better. As for Musgrave Park. Is that in the West Belfast or South Belfast district? I couldn't see too many South Belfast Unionists voting for a Gaelic stadium on their back door!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 03:11:31 PM

Sure the first ever photo they put out (months ago) didn't have a roof at the Andytown Road end.


Go to the first post in this link to view the original renders, published many months before  that clearly show the A'town Rd stand, complete with roof.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

and then read the article at http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/

It couldn't be any clearer - straight from the GAA's mouth - they dropped the A'town Rd stand to appease residents' objections.

Quote

"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."

"We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:22:59 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 03:16:21 PM

As I previously said if they had along the lines of the Aviva and put one covered tier along the Andytown road that would have been visually much better.

Completely agree, and I guess most people would rather sit in a covered stand behind the goals, on a seat not too far away form the pitch, than stand in the rain further back with a crap view.

But then that would reduce capacity and they'd be even shorter of the design goal of 40k fully covered that they were aiming for.

The site is simply too small. Start again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.

The Skyscraper render ( post 1 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744), complete with roof,  was published at a Community Consultation Event held in November 2012.
Look at the date of the posting: November 19th, 2012

The first photos, minus the roof, came out in Feb 2013.

Between Nov 2012 and feb 2013, the GAA had decided to drop the A'town Rd roof, in order to appease residents.

This was confirmed in the following article, published on 23 April 2013.



Full Article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/

Quote

THE Casement Park Stadium Project Board (CPSPB) have rejected claims by the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents' Association (MORA) that they have been ignoring their concerns, stating they have been engaging with them and other stakeholders since April last year.

A CPSPB spokesman said the  process has been led by a senior Ulster GAA official who has met with the MORA group on a monthly basis and provided the group with ongoing information in relation to the design concept.

"The design team for the stadium was appointed in September 2012 and the team held its first meeting with MORA on the day of its appointment," he said. "Since then we have listened to all the concerns tabled by the residents' group and other stakeholders  and as a result   the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially.

"We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered and we have also ensured that the stadium cloud is made of a translucent material.

"The GAA has also held five open night events in Belfast, three of which were in held in the Andersonstown Leisure Centre, and additionally the project team conducted a door-knock exercise with 280 homes on Saturday, April 13 to get direct feedback and input from residents neighbouring Casement Park.

"We have also attended two open residents meetings organised by MORA to provide updates on the project and get feedback on their concerns."

And the spokesman revealed the GAA  are planning further consultation events in the coming weeks.

"Ulster GAA continues to be in constant contact with the local residents, political representatives, community groups and other relevant stakeholders regarding the design of this project," he added.

"Regarding traffic management, these proposals are in draft form at present and we have already offered the MORA group representation on the event management team which will develop the proposals for match days.

"Any proposal for traffic control will be developed in partnership with the local residents and the statutory authorities.

"At the centre of this plan will be to ensure that residents are not adversely impacted by match day traffic.

"A full environmental statement will be submitted with the planning application and we have already conducted several studies on-site and the local area as part of the environmental statement.

"Ulster GAA will ensure that Casement Park is a significant social and economic driver for the entire province of Ulster, the city of Belfast and in particular West Belfast and we will continue to consult and engage with the local residents to ensure that this new development has a positive impact on them and their locality.

"The new Casement project will potentially bring £15 million a year to the local economy and will also see a £76.4 million boost for the local construction industry.

"Ulster GAA remains committed to the development of GAA in Ireland's second city and the promotion of economic and social regeneration in the city through the development of our games and activities," he added.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.

The Skyscraper render ( post 1 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744), complete with roof,  was published at a Community Consultation Event held in November 2012.
Look at the date of the posting: November 19th, 2012

The first photos, minus the roof, came out in Feb 2013.

Between Nov 2012 and feb 2013, the GAA had decided to drop the A'town Rd roof, in order to appease residents.

This was confirmed in the following article, published on 23 April 2013.



Full Article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/

Quote

THE Casement Park Stadium Project Board (CPSPB) have rejected claims by the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents' Association (MORA) that they have been ignoring their concerns, stating they have been engaging with them and other stakeholders since April last year.

A CPSPB spokesman said the  process has been led by a senior Ulster GAA official who has met with the MORA group on a monthly basis and provided the group with ongoing information in relation to the design concept.

"The design team for the stadium was appointed in September 2012 and the team held its first meeting with MORA on the day of its appointment," he said. "Since then we have listened to all the concerns tabled by the residents' group and other stakeholders  and as a result   the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially.

"We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered and we have also ensured that the stadium cloud is made of a translucent material.

"The GAA has also held five open night events in Belfast, three of which were in held in the Andersonstown Leisure Centre, and additionally the project team conducted a door-knock exercise with 280 homes on Saturday, April 13 to get direct feedback and input from residents neighbouring Casement Park.

"We have also attended two open residents meetings organised by MORA to provide updates on the project and get feedback on their concerns."

And the spokesman revealed the GAA  are planning further consultation events in the coming weeks.

"Ulster GAA continues to be in constant contact with the local residents, political representatives, community groups and other relevant stakeholders regarding the design of this project," he added.

"Regarding traffic management, these proposals are in draft form at present and we have already offered the MORA group representation on the event management team which will develop the proposals for match days.

"Any proposal for traffic control will be developed in partnership with the local residents and the statutory authorities.

"At the centre of this plan will be to ensure that residents are not adversely impacted by match day traffic.

"A full environmental statement will be submitted with the planning application and we have already conducted several studies on-site and the local area as part of the environmental statement.

"Ulster GAA will ensure that Casement Park is a significant social and economic driver for the entire province of Ulster, the city of Belfast and in particular West Belfast and we will continue to consult and engage with the local residents to ensure that this new development has a positive impact on them and their locality.

"The new Casement project will potentially bring £15 million a year to the local economy and will also see a £76.4 million boost for the local construction industry.

"Ulster GAA remains committed to the development of GAA in Ireland's second city and the promotion of economic and social regeneration in the city through the development of our games and activities," he added.

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:45:22 PM

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?

Ah, in face of overwhelming evidence that the GAA did in fact drop the A'town roof, you now try to move to playing the man rather than the ball. A -1 for that.

I'd prefer to talk about why we're getting 3/4 of a stadium for £75 million, and not the full 40k, fully covered stadium that we deserve.

But as your asking, my angle, as a lifelong gaa fan, is that

1. I think that the Ulster Council have been given a bum steer when they were told that Casement was a big enough site. It's not.
The design deficiencies at the A'town Rd end all stem from that.

2. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the GAA to get this level of funding, and the decisions they're taking now will reduce the amount of future income that would otherwise have been gained by buiilding a bigger, fully covered stadium on a larger site. This is because a bigger stadium, on a bigger site would be able to hold more money generating events. A more neutral site such as Musgrave Park would help in this regard, attracting more events.

3. Architecturally, as a GAA fan and a wee bit of stadium fan, I wanted this stadium to be a beacon of a resurgent GAA in Belfast, to raise the GAA's profile, to announce to Belfast that we are the biggest sporting organisation in Ulster, and that our Belfast presence was growing.

4. I wanted the stadium to be tall and highly visible to the whole city as a statement that the Irish dimension within our city was growing. That the GAA could no longer be ignored, with an impressive 40k stadium v's the 20k soccer stadium that attracts crowds half the size but gets disproportionately more media coverage. I'm old enough to remember the injustice I felt at the IFA being given a Windsor Park stand for free in 1983, whilst GAA crowds three times the size were still standing on wet grass banks, yet we got nothing.

5. I'm a bit disturbed that GAA fans aren't taking as much interest in the outcome of this project, when it will affect us for decades to come.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 04:06:13 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:45:22 PM

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?

Ah, in face of overwhelming evidence that the GAA did in fact drop the A'town roof, you now try to move to playing the man rather than the ball. A -1 for that.

I'd prefer to talk about why we're getting 3/4 of a stadium for £75 million, and not the full 40k, fully covered stadium that we deserve.

But as your asking, my angle, as a lifelong gaa fan, is that

1. I think that the Ulster Council have been given a bum steer when they were told that Casement was a big enough site. It's not.
The design deficiencies at the A'town Rd end all stem from that.

2. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the GAA to get this level of funding, and the decisions they're taking now will reduce the amount of future income that would otherwise have been gained by buiilding a bigger, fully covered stadium on a larger site. This is because a bigger stadium, on a bigger site would be able to hold more money generating events. A more neutral site such as Musgrave Park would help in this regard, attracting more events.

3. Architecturally, as a GAA fan and a wee bit of stadium fan, I wanted this stadium to be a beacon of a resurgent GAA in Belfast, to raise the GAA's profile, to announce to Belfast that we are the biggest sporting organisation in Ulster, and that our Belfast presence was growing.

4. I wanted the stadium to be tall and highly visible to the whole city as a statement that the Irish dimension within our city was growing. That the GAA could no longer be ignored, with an impressive 40k stadium v's the 20k soccer stadium that attracts crowds half the size but gets disproportionately more media coverage.

5. I'm a bit disturbed that GAA fans aren't taking as much interest in the outcome of this project, when it will affect us for decades to come.



I can't argue with that!! On the money there.

The reason we don't agrue/discuss/compromise is because there is an inbuilt element of assuming the hierarchy of the GAA is always right!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:59 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:45:22 PM

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?

Ah, in face of overwhelming evidence that the GAA did in fact drop the A'town roof, you now try to move to playing the man rather than the ball. A -1 for that.

I always found playing the man was a good route to finding out what was in him for the rest of the game, so no apologies for that.

I'd prefer to talk about why we're getting 3/4 of a stadium for £75 million, and not the full 40k, fully covered stadium that we deserve.

But as your asking, my angle, as a lifelong gaa fan, is that
1. I think that the Ulster Council have been given a bum steer when they were told that Casement was a big enough site. It's not.
The design deficiencies at the A'town Rd end all stem from that.

2. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the GAA to get this level of funding, and the decisions they're taking now will reduce the amount of future income that would otherwise have been gained by buiilding a bigger, fully covered stadium on a larger site. This is because a bigger stadium, on a bigger site would be able to hold more money generating events. A more neutral site such as Musgrave Park would help in this regard, attracting more events.

3. Architecturally, as a GAA fan and a wee bit of stadium fan, I wanted this stadium to be a beacon of a resurgent GAA in Belfast, to raise the GAA's profile, to announce to Belfast that we are the biggest sporting organisation in Ulster, and that our Belfast presence was growing.

4. I wanted the stadium to be tall and highly visible to the whole city as a statement that the Irish dimension within our city was growing. That the GAA could no longer be ignored, with an impressive 40k stadium v's the 20k soccer stadium that attracts crowds half the size but gets disproportionately more media coverage.

5. I'm a bit disturbed that GAA fans aren't taking as much interest in the outcome of this project, when it will affect us for decades to come.

1. Do you genuinely believe that the Ulster council and their paid staff have not been given all the information concerning the project with all the various debates floating around it. I for one do not.

2. For the amount of games and events the stadium as presented at the moment is more than adequate, how many outdoor concert type events were held on the Island of Ireland last year?

3. I would rather the GAA put some real money into the GAA in Belfast in development terms. Clubs are struggling and going to the wall at the moment and I would rather see staff on the ground helping these clubs develop than anything. Do you really think the GAA in Belfast is resurgent, what is your evidence for this?

4. Building a stadium just to put two fingers up the soccer dogs to me doesnt make sense, if you drove down the M1 any night the floodlights were on that would bring a smile to my face anyway.

5. Plenty of fans have an interest in it, just not completely negative or worked up about it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 04:52:04 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

To be fair to the Ulster Branch I think they were on board with the multi-purpose stadium. They just had issues over capacity!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

Here's the bum steer the Ulster Council were given back in 2010. Afaicr, this is the point when Casement was announced as the preferred site for what was to have been a 40k fully covered stadium. Up until then, no site had been decided.

Key quote in red.

http://www.setanta.com/ca/Articles/2010/10/06/Casement-Park-set-for-makeover/gnid-78446/

Quote

Casement Park set for makeover by Setanta staff , 06 October 2010


Belfast's Casement Park could become the permanent home for the Ulster SFC final if an ambitious overhaul plan comes to fruition.

Plans have been drawn up to convert the County Antrim arena into an all-seater stadium with a capacity of some 40,000.

Nelson McCausland, the Northern Ireland Sports Minister is set to presently provide the Stormont Executive with a paper that recommends the multi-million euro redevelopment of the ground as well as upgrades for soccer stadium Windsor Park and Ravenhill, the home of Ulster rugby. Under the proposal, the GAA, IFA and IRFU would all contribute financially to their respective projects.

"We have gone through a rigorous process, a very detailed process by an independent consultant, and it has now been accepted so it does stack up,"  Ulster Council president Aogan Farrell was quoted as saying by the Irish Daily Star.

"We wouldn't be in this game only we felt it's a development that's needed."









Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.

So, it would just have been as feasible for the Ulster council to redevelop Armagh athletic grounds or Omagh, it didn't have to be Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.

So, it would just have been as feasible for the Ulster council to redevelop Armagh athletic grounds or Omagh, it didn't have to be Casement?

Correct JC, the GAA were given the choice of venue and they picked Casement as the project.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:37:35 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:37:35 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.

Well I think there was a ground swell for a show of strength for want of a better phrase in the country second city. Plus a lot of work has already gone into Newry, Armagh, Celtic Park, Omagh etc So Casement being in the shape that it is in formed the logical choice for this type of refurb.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on May 23, 2013, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: Hardy on May 22, 2013, 10:46:37 AM
I'd hate to get sitting behind that lad with the balloons.

Hardy, it's well nigh impossible to avoid balloons in West Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:37:35 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.

So Casement being in the shape that it is in formed the logical choice for this type of refurb.

Until you try to get parked, in or out of the place when there's anything resembling a decent crowd about the place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:37:35 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.

So Casement being in the shape that it is in formed the logical choice for this type of refurb.

Until you try to get parked, in or out of the place when there's anything resembling a decent crowd about the place.

JC again this would have had to have formed part of the planning process of the best way to 20k plus people into and out of the stadium as safely and as quickly as possible with the minimum of disruption.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on May 23, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/BK8ijP6CcAIk39pjpg-large_zps527a1205.jpeg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 23, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
Naming rights are up for grabs as well....'The Fusco's Ice cream Arena'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 23, 2013, 08:57:19 PM
I rather ther money been split against the counties to refurb their own home pitches or repay work already done. I know Celtic park needs to look at  anew stand at one of the goals with the team coming out from behind this, demolish the other end where the changing rooms currently stand and also built a new stand there, but no we go throw money into owenbeg building a stand there, instead of upgrading Celtic park to actually take a capacity crowd, not that we Derry fans need one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 23, 2013, 08:57:19 PM
I rather ther money been split against the counties to refurb their own home pitches or repay work already done. I know Celtic park needs to look at  anew stand at one of the goals with the team coming out from behind this, demolish the other end where the changing rooms currently stand and also built a new stand there, but no we go throw money into owenbeg building a stand there, instead of upgrading Celtic park to actually take a capacity crowd, not that we Derry fans need one.
When has Celtic Park ever been anywhere close to capacity? Would be an absolute waste of money to spend any more on that ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 23, 2013, 10:33:18 PM
Saw in the Irish News today that the residents association are planning to protest at some games this summer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on May 24, 2013, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 23, 2013, 08:57:19 PM
I rather ther money been split against the counties to refurb their own home pitches or repay work already done. I know Celtic park needs to look at  anew stand at one of the goals with the team coming out from behind this, demolish the other end where the changing rooms currently stand and also built a new stand there, but no we go throw money into owenbeg building a stand there, instead of upgrading Celtic park to actually take a capacity crowd, not that we Derry fans need one.

That wasn't on offer though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on June 06, 2013, 05:22:17 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.

Complete tosh.

The Govt funding was for the development of one stadium, but there were no restrictions on the location of the stadium, or whether it should be brand new or a refurbishment.

It was the GAA's decision, alone, to choose Casement. Up until Oct 2010, most people had assumed that they would pick somewhere around Dungannon-ish, but they chose Casement instead:

Quote"We have gone through a rigorous process, a very detailed process by an independent consultant, and it has now been accepted so it does stack up,"

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on June 08, 2013, 06:38:14 AM
Who could begrudge West Belfast a big investment? But the return won't happen for it's residents. A few pubs will have a few bumper days, but that's it.

People are saying that there was money there and why would you turn it down. The Casement project has been the result of years of running down Clones, through lack of investment and ongoing negative commentary on the part of the Irish News. Politicians took up the baton and lobbied hard for a revamped stadium in Belfast. The money secured could better serve the people of West Belfast in so many other ways.

Now that it's happening we'll be consigned to days attending matches, but so much of the fun will be lost. Two articles written by a Fermanagh man and a Tyrone man, highlight how the GAA suits don't get it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2010/0814/opinion/breathing-a-sigh-of-freedom-127775.html

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/06/07/more-than-just-the-game/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on June 08, 2013, 10:47:32 AM
Do ye really want the B Specials back or what?  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Onlooker on June 08, 2013, 11:51:56 AM
Thanks for those 2 articles, babarino.  They brought back great memories of Ulster Finals in Clones that I attended on many occasions over the years, despite the long trip from South Tipperary.  To me they were special days and up there with the highlights of the GAA year.  IMO it would be an awful pity if Ulster Finals in Clones were to be no more.  Good luck to the development of Casement Park, but it is to be hoped that St. Tiernach's Park remains an integral part of of big days in the football scene.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on June 10, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
Did Clones only become the venue for the Ulster Final when the "troubles " started ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.

Hows that? The British Govt are giving 65 million and the GAA are stumping up 15 million for the Casement project. What I was referring to was putting the 15 million into the refurbishment and down-scaling of Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 11:55:12 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.

Hows that? The British Govt are giving 65 million and the GAA are stumping up 15 million for the Casement project. What I was referring to was putting the 15 million into the refurbishment and down-scaling of Clones.

The GAA had to provide 'match' funding for the project so therefore it had to be in the wee six and any money to be invested into Clones would have to be a complete separate fund from Ulster GAA.

The 65m wouldn't come without the 15m from the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 10, 2013, 12:06:54 PM
Its hard to fathom there's a south Derry man about who doesn't understand how Sports funding in NI works.

Did you miss Gooseys 'workshop'?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on June 10, 2013, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: babarino on June 08, 2013, 06:38:14 AM

Now that it's happening we'll be consigned to days attending matches, but so much of the fun will be lost. Two articles written by a Fermanagh man and a Tyrone man, highlight how the GAA suits don't get it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2010/0814/opinion/breathing-a-sigh-of-freedom-127775.html

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/06/07/more-than-just-the-game/

Two superb articles that hit the nail on the head. I have so many fond memories of Clones outside the stadium whereas Casement is in a suburban area with nothing to offer outside the ground. I don't think I'll be too fussed on going to Ulster Finals in Casement somehow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: western exile on June 10, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 10, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
Did Clones only become the venue for the Ulster Final when the "troubles " started ?
yes, The Ulster Final was hosted in Clones every year from 1970 until 2004: prior to this, Casement Park was the venue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on June 10, 2013, 04:42:58 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on June 10, 2013, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: babarino on June 08, 2013, 06:38:14 AM

Now that it's happening we'll be consigned to days attending matches, but so much of the fun will be lost. Two articles written by a Fermanagh man and a Tyrone man, highlight how the GAA suits don't get it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2010/0814/opinion/breathing-a-sigh-of-freedom-127775.html

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/06/07/more-than-just-the-game/

Two superb articles that hit the nail on the head. I have so many fond memories of Clones outside the stadium whereas Casement is in a suburban area with nothing to offer outside the ground. I don't think I'll be too fussed on going to Ulster Finals in Casement somehow.
While soaking up the pre and post match atmosphere is a part of the day, is the main reason for attending an Ulster Final not to go to watch the football finals?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 10, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: western exile on June 10, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 10, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
Did Clones only become the venue for the Ulster Final when the "troubles " started ?
yes, The Ulster Final was hosted in Clones every year from 1970 until 2004: prior to this, Casement Park was the venue.
Wrong and wrong. Clones has had Ulster Finals since 1905. Between 1940 and 1970 Clones had 18 Ulster Finals - in the same period Belfast had 7 (there was no 'permanent' venue). And Belfast had its most recent final in 1971.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FarneyMan on June 11, 2013, 10:03:54 AM
Going to watch the football is of course the main reason most people attend a match, but this experience can be greatly enhanced by the atmosphere provided by its location....

I've always found Casement park to be severely lacking when it comes to "atmosphere"........and this all new purpose built stadium isn't going to improve things.
Casement is after all located in a city where the Ulster final will be viewed on as just another entertainment event. Stewards will be tasked with getting people in and out as quickly as possible with as little hassle and disruption caused to the already busy city life.  Whereas when it is staged in Clones it is an all consuming showpiece and takes over the entire town and hinterland making it more of a footballing festival than a one off event.....

An old picture of St. Tiernachs park before the redevelopment, the Hill used to be a some sight when full to capacity on a big match day http://t.co/K6EtDtfUvY

I suppose the decision has been made now but I will definitely miss Ulster Finals in Clones, and outside of my county making the odd appearance in the decider I greatly doubt if ill be interested in a day out to the new Casement for an annual event......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 11, 2013, 12:04:06 PM
Jeepers Creepers lads, give it a chance. You never know, it might be good  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 11, 2013, 12:59:35 PM
Reading those articles and seeing the picture of the old clones brings back memories of the magic of Ulster Final, crossing the border and the sense of coming home for a catholic brought up in the North of the '60's. But times change and my kids wouldn't understand the head down mentality we had as kids in the 60's and 70's. Going to Clones was of it's time. More recently as an Armagh man I'd have preferred it to the Athletic Grounds as a home ground. But Belfast is the second city, GAA games are no longer the poor relations we are right to develop our own stadium in the Province's Capital (9 County). Clones needn't lose out either. It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues, where Clones could still play host to high profile games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 11, 2013, 05:28:29 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 11, 2013, 12:59:35 PM
Reading those articles and seeing the picture of the old clones brings back memories of the magic of Ulster Final, crossing the border and the sense of coming home for a catholic brought up in the North of the '60's. But times change and my kids wouldn't understand the head down mentality we had as kids in the 60's and 70's. Going to Clones was of it's time. More recently as an Armagh man I'd have preferred it to the Athletic Grounds as a home ground. But Belfast is the second city, GAA games are no longer the poor relations we are right to develop our own stadium in the Province's Capital (9 County). Clones needn't lose out either. It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues, where Clones could still play host to high profile games.
All games at neutral venues? Are you having a laugh? Just watch the attendance plummet. And when would the likes of Ballybofey or Celtic park ever be used?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 11, 2013, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 11:55:12 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.

Hows that? The British Govt are giving 65 million and the GAA are stumping up 15 million for the Casement project. What I was referring to was putting the 15 million into the refurbishment and down-scaling of Clones.

The GAA had to provide 'match' funding for the project so therefore it had to be in the wee six and any money to be invested into Clones would have to be a complete separate fund from Ulster GAA.

The 65m wouldn't come without the 15m from the GAA.
Never heard any mention of a match funding requirement. It's my understanding that the GAA has decided on the extra funding to build the stadium they want. There was no stipulation for them to build one with 40,000 capacity for example.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 11, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
QuoteAll games at neutral venues? Are you having a laugh? Just watch the attendance plummet.

The highest attendances have been at neutral venues.

The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on June 11, 2013, 10:46:39 PM
Whiter than white white elephant.
Maybe one game a year with about 30,000. Maybe.
Rock concerts for the rest - locally opposed.
A monument to some ego in a dread suburban mishmash.
Ego project funded by our taxes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 11, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
Quote from: Leo on June 11, 2013, 10:46:39 PM
Whiter than white white elephant.
Maybe one game a year with about 30,000. Maybe.
Rock concerts for the rest - locally opposed.
A monument to some ego in a dread suburban mishmash.
Ego project funded by our taxes.
Does any body in their right mind think that rock concerts will be held in an area where you are not going to have at least 50% of your market excluded because of location. It is one thing building this white elephant but it is the supporters and the clubs that will have to foot the bill for its long term upkeep.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 12, 2013, 10:21:33 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town

until you try to get parking anywhere near the place!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 12, 2013, 10:42:09 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town
Comparing this proposed development to croke park is a bit pie in the sky. As it stands you are looking at one possible full house in any given year and that is dependent on which counties qualify for the ulster final.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 12, 2013, 11:13:44 AM
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride, successfully used for Tennants Vital, Stormont Concerts and other venues. The Stadium looks amazing... give it a chance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
QuoteGuys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride

Time for the wasters in Stormont to reopen the railway to Clones!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 12, 2013, 11:37:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
QuoteGuys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride

Time for the wasters in Stormont to reopen the railway to Clones!

Could we not just use the Ulster Canal?!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 12:06:15 PM
QuoteCould we not just use the Ulster Canal?!!

No. The Ulster canal has only been opened towards Fermanagh, an Ulster final venue really needs to facilitate Tyrone, Armagh and Down.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 12, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 12:06:15 PM
QuoteCould we not just use the Ulster Canal?!!

No. The Ulster canal has only been opened towards Fermanagh, an Ulster final venue really needs to facilitate Tyrone, Armagh and Down.

I was only winding.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 02:04:30 PM
QuoteI was only winding.

Me too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 05:04:17 PM
What is it with the parking do people want to park their car at the front gate or something??? There are any number of places to park if you are prepared to walk a little with places like Boucher and Kings hall less than a mile away. Go to most of the top grounds in England and I guarantee you if you want to take your car to the ground then be prepared to walk a little. I think this could work and as for the residents I think they are being completely unrealistic looking at the plans I cant think of any other 40000 stadium that looks so low and yet they are worried by its height!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 11, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
QuoteAll games at neutral venues? Are you having a laugh? Just watch the attendance plummet.

The highest attendances have been at neutral venues.

The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.
Have you evidence that there are bigger crowds at neutral venues? Sunday's game is hardly a great example, but would you have had a bigger crowd if the game had been in Armagh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 12, 2013, 11:13:44 AM
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride, successfully used for Tennants Vital, Stormont Concerts and other venues. The Stadium looks amazing... give it a chance.
That's not really an advantage - you can set up a park and ride very easily - a field and a few busses is all you need, so it could be adopted for any GAA ground. Although I'm not sure park and ride is as appealing to a GAA crowd as a concert crowd anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2013, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 12, 2013, 11:13:44 AM
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride, successfully used for Tennants Vital, Stormont Concerts and other venues. The Stadium looks amazing... give it a chance.
That's not really an advantage - you can set up a park and ride very easily - a field and a few busses is all you need, so it could be adopted for any GAA ground. Although I'm not sure park and ride is as appealing to a GAA crowd as a concert crowd anyway.

I mind going to games in the late 80s and early 90s at Clones, parking up at the Fermanagh border and utilising the very effective park and ride services provided by a few blokes packing 12 people into an oul clapped out Ford Escort, raking back and forward to the ground at about 80mph. I'm not 100% sure if they'd done their risk assessments though!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on June 12, 2013, 10:30:48 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on June 11, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
Quote from: Leo on June 11, 2013, 10:46:39 PM
Whiter than white white elephant.
Maybe one game a year with about 30,000. Maybe.
Rock concerts for the rest - locally opposed.
A monument to some ego in a dread suburban mishmash.
Ego project funded by our taxes.
Does any body in their right mind think that rock concerts will be held in an area where you are not going to have at least 50% of your market excluded because of location. It is one thing building this white elephant but it is the supporters and the clubs that will have to foot the bill for its long term upkeep.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
QuoteHave you evidence that there are bigger crowds at neutral venues?

Armagh v Tyrone had 31,000 twice in a first round in Clones, when was the last time there was such a crowd at a first round game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
QuoteHave you evidence that there are bigger crowds at neutral venues?

Armagh v Tyrone had 31,000 twice in a first round in Clones, when was the last time there was such a crowd at a first round game?
That's the exception rather than the rule. And we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2013, 11:23:00 PM
I think Casement in January had over 20 thousand at a McKenna cup semi final with Tyrone and Armagh, I was at it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:53:27 PM
QuoteAnd we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.

Exceptional perhaps, but you contended that neutral venues would reduce crowds, in this case it doubled it.

QuoteI think Casement in January had over 20 thousand at a McKenna cup semi final with Tyrone and Armagh, I was at it

You see the power of Tyrone and Armagh! Build the thing about Blackwatertown.
Not quite 20,000 I think, perhaps 18,000, but formidable all the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 13, 2013, 07:14:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:53:27 PM
QuoteAnd we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.

Exceptional perhaps, but you contended that neutral venues would reduce crowds, in this case it doubled it.
But that's the exception, not the rule. There's nothing wrong with having matches at a neutral venue if it's known that the home venue isn't big enough. But why, for example, would you have the likes of Derry/Donegal, Derry/Antrim, Antrim/Down, Cavan/Monaghan, Cavan/Fermanagh, Antrim/Cavan at a neutral venue for a first round game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GrandMasterFlash on June 13, 2013, 07:20:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 11, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.

And here's another exception.. Arguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park and probably thought they'd save their money for the semi-final!

And, why on earth would you want to play all games at neutral venues? Admittedly I haven't read too far back on this thread but surely it's part of the fabric of the GAA i.e. counties getting to play in front of their 'home' crowd? Donegal v Tyrone being the most recent case in point: I was delighted to see that the decision was upheld to play the game was in Sean MacCumhaill Parc and that the potential revenue did not cloud the better judgement of the Ulster Council.

The Tyrone v Armagh games of the early noughties were an exception and if the same set of exceptioanl circumstances arise again the same outcome will happen. I don't mind this as it is blue moon stuff...

Anyhow, I reckon the Casement Park redevelopment is intended for events other that football/hurling i.e. concerts, festivals etc.

I'm sure it has been mentioned on this thread already but given the political wranglings that have occurred to date I reckon this was last chance saloon for the sporting bodies i.e. take the money now lads and develop your stadia (i.e. Ravenhill, Windsor Park, Casement Park) or lose it as the sh*te is being cut out of this block grant we're getting from Westminster..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
QuoteArguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park

The weakest county, i.e. the one that is going to be using this stadium most. As for the weather, no doubt if it had been raining the place would have packed. And you previously asked if there would have been more in Armagh for this game, there would have been more Monaghan people.

QuoteAdmittedly I haven't read too far back on this thread but surely it's part of the fabric of the GAA i.e. counties getting to play in front of their 'home' crowd? Donegal v Tyrone being the most recent case in point: I was delighted to see that the decision was upheld to play the game was in Sean MacCumhaill Parc and that the potential revenue did not cloud the better judgement of the Ulster Council.

The "Home" crowd concept is most important in other sports where leagues are important or where there double legs. The GAA is as much about supporters mingling and people travelling to venues. Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.

In any case when this place is built in Belfast the Ulster council will have a sudden passion for neutral venues and every game with half a crowd will be moved there to try and justify the place, so perhaps it is just as well that Donegal got their game this year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 13, 2013, 12:12:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
Quote

The "Home" crowd concept is most important in other sports where leagues are important or where there double legs. The GAA is as much about supporters mingling and people travelling to venues. Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.


up until the qualifiers you never traveled outside your province to a championship game and everything after that is in Croke park.
At worst you'd be 2 hours traveling in a car. Taking the likes of the Donegal/Tyrone game to Clones just wouldn't make any sense as they border each other.

Now there's the likes of Tyrone traveling to Killarney for a championship game which puts a greater burden on the away support and no doubt affects attendances and maybe a neutral venue should be considered for these games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on June 13, 2013, 12:35:02 PM
neutral venues would mean Pairc Esler, Celtic Park, Ballybofey would rarely if ever be used. Newry is one of the best grounds in Ulster and it never gets a championship game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 13, 2013, 07:48:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
QuoteArguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park

The weakest county, i.e. the one that is going to be using this stadium most. As for the weather, no doubt if it had been raining the place would have packed. And you previously asked if there would have been more in Armagh for this game, there would have been more Monaghan people.
Actually it was me who mentioned Armagh, in which case yes, probably more Monaghan people but a lot less from Antrim. The biggest attendance though would probably have been in Clones, which obviously isn't neutral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 13, 2013, 10:50:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.

regarding your reference to the Donegal/Tyrone game and your response above to another poster... again, this is the exception and note the rule. You said: "It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues". I'd imagine there would be a negative impact on attendance in most cases. Also, potential revenue wasn't lost for the Donegal/Tyrone game because it wasn't at a neutral venue, it was because the home venue wasn't big enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GrandMasterFlash on June 14, 2013, 04:06:40 PM
Which county board would benefit if all games were at neutral venues? The participating team's, the hosting county? Would it be split three ways?  :o

I really don't see the logic in hosting all championship games at neutral venues from any angle. As snoopdog rightly says, some stadiums would rarely if ever be used. There has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2013, 05:56:37 PM
QuoteThere has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

It is relatively usual in the world for a stadium to be designed and specced for something that happens every two years. In fact, some aren't even full at these infrequent events.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 15, 2013, 09:18:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 14, 2013, 05:56:37 PM
QuoteThere has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

It is relatively usual in the world for a stadium to be designed and specced for something that happens every two years. In fact, some aren't even full at these infrequent events.
I think his point GMF was making is that if you move the games to neutral venues, they won't even get that match every two years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on June 21, 2013, 05:58:17 PM
Not so fast !

Legal challenge to GAA's Casement Park £70m redevelopment

Ulster GAA chiefs are facing a legal challenge over the planned £70m redevelopment of Casement Park stadium in west Belfast, it has emerged.

Two construction firms whose combined bid for the contract was unsuccessful have launched High Court proceedings to try to re-enter the tendering process.

Papers were lodged on behalf of Lagan Somague, a joint venture involving firms from NI and Portugal.

A new stadium is to be built on the site at a cost expected to top £70m.

Most of the funding is coming from the Northern Ireland Executive through the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL).

The redevelopment forms part of an overall £110m investment plan involving upgrades to the Ulster rugby ground at Ravenhill and Windsor Park football stadium.

A legal challenge by local soccer club Crusaders to the Windsor Park proposals is ongoing.

Now, however, proceedings have been brought against the GAA's Ulster Council.

The case is expected to centre on its duty as a contracting authority under European procurement regulations.

Lawyers for Lagan Somague are expected to argue that they have been wrongly knocked out of the tendering process.

An initial hearing is expected to take place in court next week.

Earlier this month, residents living close to Casement Park held a protest before the Ulster senior championship game between Antrim and Monaghan.

They gathered outside the ground on the Andersonstown Road in opposition to the proposed new 38,000-seater stadium.

They are worried about the height of the stadium blocking out natural light and its potential use for concerts.

Work on the redevelopment is due to begin before the end of the year.

The work is expected to last for 21 months and be completed by 2015.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 21, 2013, 08:54:29 PM
Legal challenges on procurement decisions seems to be standard these days. This could significantly delay things.

Has the stadium got full planning permission yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on June 22, 2013, 04:37:12 PM
With this legal delay on Casement, and some other legal delay on Windsor Park, is it completelely out of the question that the Maze Long Kesh site could be re-considered?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on June 22, 2013, 08:01:19 PM
i was always under the impression that these Government Grant schemes had to be spent (or a percentage) within a timescale? maybe someone else would know better. This Casement plan seems to be more hassle than its worth with too many objections from residents and now contractors.
Scrap the poxy thing and the Windsor Park upgrade and build it at the Maze...when it's complete they'll fall over each other to use it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 22, 2013, 08:44:07 PM
oh too many contractor try to argue their way into getting successful contracts when u get outbid or passed out in the tendering elimination. more times than enough things have to be retendered and that successful contractor meeting with a counter challenge from some else or the previous selected contractor, its a bollacks and had to deal with it twice in contracts we done!this thing not get off the ground for ages, then a last minute legal challenge come from residents to put another spanner in the works.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 23, 2013, 06:35:03 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on June 22, 2013, 04:37:12 PM
With this legal delay on Casement, and some other legal delay on Windsor Park, is it completelely out of the question that the Maze Long Kesh site could be re-considered?
Yes, considering the money for Ravenhill has already been spent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:15:09 PM



Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2013, 09:25:59 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Ye wha?
I mean that might give the residents something to actually moan about instead of constantly going on about the natural light being blocked by probably the lowest 40000 stadium on the planet any lower and the thing would be underground!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 07:12:42 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Yeah, it's dead easy when it's at the bottom of someone else's garden.

Buy a house next to a stadium, airport, brown field site etc etc then you are a bit naive if you dont expect any sort of development at some point. If someone is still living there in a house built prior to Casement park then they have my fullest sympathy the rest took a risk when they bought their houses so tough luck I have a lot more sympathy for those who bought a house in the boom and then for whatever reason the council has slapped a compulsory purchase order on it at todays prices.
I think the GAA have been more than fair trying to accomodate the residents by taking off part of the roof and making the rest of the roof transparent but it looks like no matter what they do it will not be enough. I do agree with most here that the GAA should have avoided these problems in the first place by just developing a new site!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on June 26, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 26, 2013, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 26, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

Is the O2 not one of the biggest indoor arenas in the UK now??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on June 26, 2013, 09:53:38 AM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 26, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

The millenium dome is now one of the world's premier venues for events/ concerts/ conferences?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2013, 11:07:31 AM
QuoteUnless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

It is not quite as simple as that, if you choose to live near a stadium then that has certain implications, given that most places do not have  stadium next door.
Likewise people who live on a through road and then campaign to have it made into a cul-de-sac.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 09:37:09 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

Pretty sure your christ the redeemer project wouldnt get very far with local planning whereas the upgrade of an existing stadium with all sorts of potential benefits to the local area may funnily enough get the thumbs up. People have a right to complain for sure but as I have already stated the GAA have already been quite open with the design process and have made alterations to benefit the local residents, I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved. I have not heard any moaning from residents around Ravenhill or Windsor - maybe they are being a bit more realistic about things. As for buying a house if noise or light was an issue then I wouldnt buy a house next to a site that had potential to be developed and a more realistic example you should have given is if a neighbour wanted to extend their house and if it was reasonable design then I would pretty much have to suck it up too whether I liked it or not
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 09:37:09 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.
I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved.

You see, this is where you are wrong. The residents association isn't sitting there and knocking back everything the GAA are offering to do. They are putting forward proposals themselves which mainly comes down to lowering it at either side.

Nice try as stated earlier for the intended capacity the design is already very low. The playing field at Casement is sunken and that will be kept with the new ground also the Andy town road end will have an unusually large stand to again reduce the height of the rest of the stadium. Personally I cant see how they can lower the height of the sides even more unless they start slashing the capacity (they already have taken 2000 off to help accommodate concerns) which Im pretty sure the GAA will refuse

Now there must be literally dozens and dozens of grounds in England slap bang in the middle of dense residential areas that have had no problem being redeveloped over the years and Im sure they cast larger shadows over a greater number of residents than Casement ever will.

Check out the scale model for yourself regarding height

https://www.facebook.com/casementpark/photos_stream

compare it to say this

http://www.favhdwallpapers.com/anfield-stadium-hd-widescreen-wallpapers.html

or this

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/acidmit/22516805/89499/89499_original.jpg

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 26, 2013, 08:56:19 PM
Have Liverpool FC not started a program of buying the houses around Anfield?
Title: Ifreann
Post by: drici on June 27, 2013, 01:15:00 AM
No chances left Ulster Council.
Now youse can go to Hell.
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on June 27, 2013, 02:12:49 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
I think people are missing the point of this discussion. The money is going to Casement end of story. What we should be discussing is what approach the GAA will take.

Will they do the right thing and build a top class stadium capable of hosting a wide range of events(small version of croke park)?
50 million is the amount from Stormont but several papers in the past have mentioned a budget of 100million for the stadium. If this was indeed the money involved then the potential is huge. To quote one of the above bloggers the stadium would be 40000 with 32000 seats and 8000 terrace - this is ideal. All those moaning about standing - well guess what you stand at the terrace, the vast majority of people like to sit and have the option to stand when they want! I would like to think that the whole stadium is roofed as the GAA seem to think Ireland is in the tropics and that it never rains - we need covered stadia even the terrace. The terrace should also be easily fitted with temporary seating if needed.
If done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
Another argument against the development is that there is no room around the stadium - you can say that about anywhere - look at the previous aerial shots of Croke - pretty tight fit. Most of the people oppossed to this development were probably against the upgrade of Croke or Lansdowne also and now look at the facilities there - pretty impressive not to mention the knock on effect such developments have on the local area and certainly West Belfast is crying out for investment

My greatest fear is the GAA will do the half hearted effort they have done many times  in the past. Take a look at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick for a modern stadium it looks like it was built in the 1920's not to mention again the fact that it has no cover at all - at least put a simple roof on - even somethng like the new RDS stand is better than nothing.
A similar GAA project at the moment is the new Pairc ui chaoimh. That project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -  :-[

Lets hope we have the stadium we need/deserve - interesting times ahead!

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself

Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.

It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
Ha ha reading most of these posts you would think everyone in west belfast was a hood. I never knew GAA supporters to be so snobish. Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra! ;D

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 06:46:20 PM
All joking aside if casement is developed it will hopefully awake the sleeping giant that is Antrim and get the locals behind the antrim football team - a lot easier to go to Casement for a GAA match than the round trip to parkhead every other week to watch Celtic.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 10, 2010, 10:22:14 AM
I am totally in support of Casement being redeveloped but a roof is a non-starter. The Millenium stadium is amazing but a GAA pitch is bigger and Im sure with a larger roof the costs will be exponential. The GAA sure cant even be bothered to place a standard roof on their modern stadia to cover the spectators ,(sports ground limerick for example) nevermind covering the whole playing surface as well.
If it was to happen the capacity would need to be on a power with croke park otherwise the roof would be too low and I would guess such a stadium would cost in todays money about a billion not 100 million rumoured for Casement so sorry lads forget it!


Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 22, 2011, 11:07:07 AM
Anyone know when we get to see some plans? Does anybody know when work will start or finish. The same goes for the new Pairc ui chaoimh.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2011, 09:13:00 AM

Bingo

I think a 40000 seater stadium in Belfast has potential if marketed well and opened to other sports in the future (doubt that will happen soon but you never know). I agree with you though that the GAA doesnt seem to have thought things out properly. Their other big project is a 60000 seater stadium in Cork (why so big)
The GAA should have maybe one high quality 35000-40000 stadium in each province and should have maybe consulted the IRFU years ago about joint ventures. The remaining stadiums should have smaller capacities but better facilities. Instead the GAA wants to builld 32 white elephants around the country with huge capacities but terrible facilities.
The perfect example of the mismanagement is the dump that is the ''new'' gaelic grounds in Limerick. Why build a modern stadium in the West of Ireland with no roof! Secondly Limerick isnt a big place so why didnt the IRFU and GAA agree to build one 35000 high quality stadium that would have been used regularly and been easily maintained (Thomond park is good but to me feels unfinished).
l

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 08, 2011, 11:58:58 AM
Anybody got any news, any plans? At this rate it will ready in 40 years time. The same for parc ui chaoimh. Why the silence?

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2011, 09:51:56 PM
Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:33:59 AM
I think the green area is corporate. The plans show the media area now to be up at the Andytown road end. Will they use all or part of the old one?, seems a waste seeing it was only constructed a few years back. I also remeber in the Irish news a couple of years ago talk about a footbridge over the motoway linking the satdium to musgrave parking to improve accessand paking etc but that has now been shelved. Posted a new thread on skyscrapercity on the subject feel free to add any other picures when they are released.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.


Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 10:46:44 AM
The redesign of Pairc ui Chaoimh has very few details as yet and evertime I read any plans they seem to change. Here are some early design pictures from a while pack but they dont really give anything away

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10604

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10603

The last I read the project will be completed by 2016. It will have a capacity of 45000 which will have 2 covered seated 2 tier stands. The ends will be left open and at the moment Im not sure if they will be seated or terraced. The project will cost 67 million euro which seems a lot considering the actual work being done (Celtic park only cost 40 million a few years ago and although not perfect is light years ahead of what is being planned here). It may be a missed opportunity. I think if you spend that much money you should have top class stadium

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 05:04:17 PM
What is it with the parking do people want to park their car at the front gate or something??? There are any number of places to park if you are prepared to walk a little with places like Boucher and Kings hall less than a mile away. Go to most of the top grounds in England and I guarantee you if you want to take your car to the ground then be prepared to walk a little. I think this could work and as for the residents I think they are being completely unrealistic looking at the plans I cant think of any other 40000 stadium that looks so low and yet they are worried by its height!

Title: Meáncóg
Post by: drici on June 27, 2013, 02:17:51 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!

And coincidentally the GAA peoples' Club in West Belfast is given a closure date.
Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 27, 2013, 08:30:40 AM
Thanks Drici for posting all my comments and your point is?????
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on June 27, 2013, 08:53:39 AM
Who received the profits from the Casement Social club?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 27, 2013, 09:25:39 AM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 27, 2013, 08:53:39 AM
Who received the profits from the Casement Social club?

What profits??   8)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on July 09, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2013, 11:41:53 PM
It is interesting in the other thread people proposing home and away open draw arrangements and the like. If the provincial setup is abolished then this stadium is a complete waste of space as Antrim would not 20% of its capacity, unless Celtic plays there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 10, 2013, 08:18:33 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 09, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.

What club would buy the big concrete slabs for seating surely it would be cheaper and less hassle just to buy plastic bucket seats. The big question is what is happening with the brand spanking new control tower? Is it being shifted to another Ulster ground?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on July 10, 2013, 09:33:47 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 10, 2013, 08:18:33 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 09, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.

What club would buy the big concrete slabs for seating surely it would be cheaper and less hassle just to buy plastic bucket seats. The big question is what is happening with the brand spanking new control tower? Is it being shifted to another Ulster ground?

yeah, its going to Corrigan park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Two Hands FFS on July 10, 2013, 10:17:01 AM
Is Casement closed for matches??
Title: Airgead
Post by: drici on July 12, 2013, 02:14:02 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on July 09, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.

Aye - be good for people to get houses there and won't cost the likes of what is being talked about for the would-have-been-white-elephant-monstrosity to fix up Corrigan Park as the Antrim County Ground. Also the Antrim supporting crowds will reflect the arena there.
Bye Bye Ulster Council but as youse have admitted yourselves - youse were not contributing any money at all to whole would-have-been scheme.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 12, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
Who paid for the floodlights? If it was the Ulster Council, should the lights not just be moved to Clones?
Title: Greannmhar
Post by: drici on July 13, 2013, 01:29:59 AM
Do you know that if youse don't agree that the grounds will be sold for Social Housing?

'Well that would be great because we are social people.'

Class.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHywdqH3F6Y
Title: Scaifte
Post by: drici on July 22, 2013, 01:42:27 AM
31,912 of a crowd at the Ulster Senior Football Final in Clones involving the Home County in both Minor and Senior Finals.

Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
Title: Suimiúl
Post by: drici on July 22, 2013, 02:14:58 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM

As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!


Make your minds up Ulster Council.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 22, 2013, 11:09:45 AM
This year all provincial finals, hurling and football, have been won by the home team. Antrim, the future is bright!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on July 22, 2013, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 22, 2013, 11:09:45 AM
This year all provincial finals, hurling and football, have been won by the home team. Antrim, the future is bright!

Antrim hurlers, club and county already avail of this luxury and have done for 20 years plus.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 22, 2013, 11:27:49 AM
If the football moves to Casement, the hurling should be moved to Clones, to balance things up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on July 22, 2013, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 22, 2013, 11:27:49 AM
If the football moves to Casement, the hurling should be moved to Clones, to balance things up.

I played in a minor hurling final in Clones back in the day, due to a drawn game and IIRC a drawn senior football final, remember that the netting was too big and a slíothar could go through it.. 1989.
Title: Ádh
Post by: drici on August 08, 2013, 01:24:31 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 10:06:29 PM

And in another great act of decency towards the Andersonstown community, the GAA has now closed Casement Social club.



What a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.
Ah well - could happen to anyone.

Edit: some good news filtering through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 08, 2013, 11:11:14 AM
QuoteWhat a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.

Cast to the four winds. That;s tough, the Four Winds being in Down and it would be an enormous cultural shock.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 08, 2013, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 08, 2013, 11:11:14 AM
QuoteWhat a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.

Cast to the four winds. That;s tough, the Four Winds being in Down and it would be an enormous cultural shock.

And it also has windows, that certainly would be a cultural shock.

Although if you want to have a quiet tête-à-tête with the current ( I think he still is) Antrim football manager then the four winds is a good bet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 08, 2013, 12:08:58 PM
well if you call an 12inch high by 36 inch long hole above head height and barred a window then, yeah it has windows, but it certainly wasn't renowned for its panoramic views or natural light. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 08, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 08, 2013, 12:16:20 PM
Tell that to the boys who burgled it 3 times in the space of 2 months, breaking and entering through a window.

They must have pushed a child through and then opened the doors.

Was the place well insured?
How many sets of jerseys were nicked?
Title: Ceist
Post by: drici on August 19, 2013, 03:37:14 AM
Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2013, 04:46:14 AM

What's all this about?


Quote from: armaghniac on August 17, 2013, 08:26:12 AM

Drink.


Airgead!!!

Agus tá a fhios ag gach aon duine!!!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on September 05, 2013, 01:47:00 PM
Ulster GAA clubs have been asked to submit a letter of support for the Casement Park Redevelopment Project to the Planning service.

Correspondence from the Casement Park Stadium Board has been circulated to all club secretaries, at the request of chairman Tom Daly.

'It is vitally important that all those in support of this project put their views on paper to Planning Service, especially GAA clubs ASAP,' the letter reads.

The correspondence also highlights points to note regarding the key benefits of the redevelopment project such as improved health and safety; economic benefits; community/social benefits etc.

Individual club members are also encouraged to submit letters of support.
- See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/Monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=200256#sthash.hKWpBKcA.dpuf


Maybe if they had asked the clubs in the first place they might not be planning to proceed with this white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 05, 2013, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on September 05, 2013, 01:47:00 PM
Ulster GAA clubs have been asked to submit a letter of support for the Casement Park Redevelopment Project to the Planning service.

Correspondence from the Casement Park Stadium Board has been circulated to all club secretaries, at the request of chairman Tom Daly.

'It is vitally important that all those in support of this project put their views on paper to Planning Service, especially GAA clubs ASAP,' the letter reads.

The correspondence also highlights points to note regarding the key benefits of the redevelopment project such as improved health and safety; economic benefits; community/social benefits etc.

Individual club members are also encouraged to submit letters of support.
- See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/Monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=200256#sthash.hKWpBKcA.dpuf


Maybe if they had asked the clubs in the first place they might not be planning to proceed with this white elephant.

Ridiculous. Once again aspects of the GAA resemble a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 05, 2013, 07:39:20 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 05, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
I agree if a club or individual has a problem with any aspect of the design then they dont sign the petition - simple really. Are the GAA and fans going to piss around enough over this just like the IFA to the extent that the funding is withdrawn you would almost think thats what some here want
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on September 05, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 05, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
I agree if a club or individual has a problem with any aspect of the design then they dont sign the petition - simple really. Are the GAA and fans going to piss around enough over this just like the IFA to the extent that the funding is withdrawn you would almost think thats what some here want

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 08:58:24 PM
QuoteNow they are trying to bully GAA members to back their corporate castle where our self serving bigwigs can suck each others dicks.

Surely such a superior stadium will provide others to perform that duty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 05, 2013, 09:20:45 PM
I'd say that had it been Man Utd building the stadium to play the odd match over here the same residents would probably be in full support
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
Just to be clear here - do people not want the redevelopment at all?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:38:01 PM
Ah, just wasn't following.

Are there alternative proposals?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Raven on September 05, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
Just to be clear here - do people not want the redevelopment at all?
People have no problem with redevelopment. They just dont want what has been proposed.

Very lazy, Dougal.

But its true
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:45:37 PM
Is the major objection the size?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:50:17 PM
Fair enough.

Is simply renovating what already exists the ideal option here - just barely increasing the capacity?

Seems logical. Why do they want to build a monster? Is there an obligation to do so?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:04:36 PM
Right - but surely the Ulster crowd aren't arrogant ogres and would reconsider - do you know what the alternative proposals are and why the Uladh crowd are opposed to them?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 05, 2013, 10:10:48 PM
Should never have been proposed for Belfast in the first place , no offense. Not exactly ideal location. Somewhere like Armagh in mid Ulster would have suited all counties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:14:38 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 05, 2013, 10:10:48 PM
Should never have been proposed for Belfast in the first place , no offense. Not exactly ideal location. Somewhere like Armagh in mid Ulster would have suited all counties.

I've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that. Casement is fine as it is. A lick of paint maybe.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 10:25:17 PM
QuoteI've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:22:21 PM

Ulster GAA just want what they proposed and that's it. Residents mean fcuk all to them.

That cannot be true. They must have a valid reason (in their eyes) to override the concerns of residents.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 05, 2013, 10:36:29 PM
I absolutely hate going to matches in Casement and hope the residents stop  the whole process dead in its tracks. There is a great big empty car park in Anne St in Dungannon which would be ideal for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on September 05, 2013, 10:42:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 10:25:17 PM
QuoteI've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.

So using that logic they should move Croke Park to Athlone. I say keep it in Beal Feirste.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 05, 2013, 10:49:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 05, 2013, 10:42:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 10:25:17 PM
QuoteI've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.

So using that logic they should move Croke Park to Athlone. I say keep it in Beal Feirste.

Difference being, Croker has been the National Stadium for over a Century. This is being proposed in 2013 not 100 years ago.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 05, 2013, 10:42:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 10:25:17 PM
QuoteI've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.

So using that logic they should move Croke Park to Athlone. I say keep it in Beal Feirste.

They should. Advantage Mayo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:51:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:40:43 PM
Basically what has happened is, there was meant to be a national stadium at Long Kesh. Matches, concerts etc. They couldn't come to any agreement. Ended up that rugby took some dough to do up their ground, soccer took some dough to do up their ground and the national stadium is being forced into the middle of Andytown.

So the people of Andytown don't want it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
Is there a business plan for this new stadium available online?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
(http://belfastmediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Picture-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 11:11:13 PM
(http://belfastmediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Picture-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 11:14:10 PM
(http://belfastmediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Andytown-Road-elevation.jpg)
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
Quote from: drici on September 05, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 05, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
I agree if a club or individual has a problem with any aspect of the design then they dont sign the petition - simple really. Are the GAA and fans going to piss around enough over this just like the IFA to the extent that the funding is withdrawn you would almost think thats what some here want

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!

Care to add anything to the debate?

The first post just confirms that people can sign a petition or not unless your 'GAA mafia' actually use physical force and threats to get what they want - do tell

The second post in its context was directed at people who buy houses next to a stadium and then dont expect any future development ever - little short sighted. If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.

Ps people saying the GAA just want to build what they want is a lie the design has already been altered with a loss of 4000 seats and a roof at one end but lets not let the truth get in the way of anything.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

The whole point is it will host the Ulster final which has been getting around 30000 (35000 this year I think), the problem which I agree with most is how often the stadium will be at capacity (Im hoping the GAA have thought this through, international rules, concerts etc etc). I think the GAA in general need to have a better plan regarding stadium, ie a number of smaller grounds but of high quality. The plans for Pairc ui Chaoimh are an example of bad planning - Lets spend all the money on one massive stand and then give the rest of the dump a lick of paint. If the Casement design can be reduced to 30000 and that suits the residents then great although I do feel some (not all) the residents wouldnt be happy with any proposal.

Agree about the roof it would make more sense in terms of lighting issue to remove it from one of the sides although personally a modern stadium without a roof is ridiculous so maybe reduce height by reducing capacity but put the bloody roof back on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 06, 2013, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

I honestly think Hardstation is correct here, a 36,000 seater stadium is not required at the Casement Park site, The proposals do not have the support of the local community in the area and should not be forced on them. A local community center should be built with a number of pitches, handball courts and club facilities similar to many which are located through out the province. £5 M would make a right job of it and it would be a center for the development of Gaelic games and culture in the area. If you are going to build a stadium to service Ulster it should be located in a more central location within the Province and were the development is more likely to gain local support. For me Dungannon is probably the best location for such a facility. A very central location with easy access for all 9 counties. A town which is in much need of a regeneration and such a project would bring a massive commercial benefit to the area. The area is also seeped in GAA traditions and with the exception of the odd token unionist such a project would be welcomed with open arms.
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 11:27:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.
Had they planned on doing this when the 'shiny new stadium' was planned for Long Kesh? I hadn't heard.

Your comment stinks of "Fcuk the residents. If they don't accept this, we'll really shaft them."

Oh dear back to my original argument when you buy a house beside a stadium you really dont know what will happen, ie new big stadium built on door step or stadium sold for other development be it houses, a Tescos etc etc. It is a risk Im afraid and a fact of life Im not saying f**k the residents and Im pretty sure the GAA does not have the time or interest to 'really shaft them' Im just pointing out what happens to people all over the country its not just the Casement residents some call it progress others disagree.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: StephenC on September 06, 2013, 11:30:05 AM
Fcuk the residents. If they don't like it, they should be really shafted.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 06, 2013, 11:30:43 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 06, 2013, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

I honestly think Hardstation is correct here, a 36,000 seater stadium is not required at the Casement Park site, The proposals do not have the support of the local community in the area and should not be forced on them. A local community center should be built with a number of pitches, handball courts and club facilities similar to many which are located through out the province. £5 M would make a right job of it and it would be a center for the development of Gaelic games and culture in the area. If you are going to build a stadium to service Ulster it should be located in a more central location within the Province and were the development is more likely to gain local support. For me Dungannon is probably the best location for such a facility. A very central location with easy access for all 9 counties. A town which is in much need of a regeneration and such a project would bring a massive commercial benefit to the area. The area is also seeped in GAA traditions and with the exception of the odd token unionist such a project would be welcomed with open arms.

This money is specifically for a one off stadium development, not some centre of excellence as you suggest in the first part of your response.

The location of the stadium should have surely been up for debate right at the get go and according to the powers that be in Ulster GAA it was with the green field option looked at and Casement still came out on top. Not sure I believe that though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 06, 2013, 11:38:24 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 06, 2013, 11:30:43 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 06, 2013, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

I honestly think Hardstation is correct here, a 36,000 seater stadium is not required at the Casement Park site, The proposals do not have the support of the local community in the area and should not be forced on them. A local community center should be built with a number of pitches, handball courts and club facilities similar to many which are located through out the province. £5 M would make a right job of it and it would be a center for the development of Gaelic games and culture in the area. If you are going to build a stadium to service Ulster it should be located in a more central location within the Province and were the development is more likely to gain local support. For me Dungannon is probably the best location for such a facility. A very central location with easy access for all 9 counties. A town which is in much need of a regeneration and such a project would bring a massive commercial benefit to the area. The area is also seeped in GAA traditions and with the exception of the odd token unionist such a project would be welcomed with open arms.

This money is specifically for a one off stadium development, not some centre of excellence as you suggest in the first part of your response.

The location of the stadium should have surely been up for debate right at the get go and according to the powers that be in Ulster GAA it was with the green field option looked at and Casement still came out on top. Not sure I believe that though.

Then take the money go elsewhere, knock casement, apply for additional funding for development of site at Casement a la Garvaghy (GAA HQ, Sports council, Belfast City Council, your women in sports & culture) and everyones happy, Ulster get their stadium, residence get a facility more amenable to the area. Whats the problem ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on September 06, 2013, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:55:33 PM
No. The people of Moorland Park don't fancy having 'only 3 hours of daylight each day'.

Would anyone?

2 hours of additional day light for Mooreland Pk.  What's not to like?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 01:56:19 PM
Residents challenge GAA's Casement Park redevelopment A new 38,000 all-seater stadium at Casement Park is expected to cost more than £70m Continue reading the main story

A west Belfast residents group has launched a formal objection to the proposed new 38,000 seater GAA stadium at Casement Park.

The Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association (MORA) has given a petition and letter of objection to the Department of Environment.

Work on the stadium is due to start in early 2014, with a view to hosting GAA fixtures at the ground by 2016.

But the residents group said the proposed new stadium is too big.

They describe it as a "monstrosity" and claim it will reduce the quality of life of people living beside it.

But GAA chiefs said it would enhance west Belfast socially and economically creating an estimated 1,400 jobs in the construction industry and would bring "significant GAA events back to Belfast for the first time since the 1970s".

A spokesperson said Ulster GAA had been in discussions with the residents group since April 2012.

'Earliest convenience'

"Ulster GAA have listened and used the residents and other stakeholders feedback in the development process," he said.

"The GAA also compromised significantly on the design and capacity of the development following ongoing engagement with MORA."

The spokesperson said MORA had recently withdrawn from discussions with the GAA.

"While this is regrettable, the GAA wants to re-engage with the group at the earliest convenience to review the operational issues as part of the stadium redevelopment."

The stadium has yet to gain final planning approval.

The cost of the new state of the art stadium is expected to top £70m.

Most of the funding is coming from the Northern Ireland Executive through the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL).

The redevelopment forms part of an overall £110m investment plan involving upgrades to the Ulster rugby ground at Ravenhill and Windsor Park football stadium.
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: qubdub on September 12, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
The second post in its context was directed at people who buy houses next to a stadium and then dont expect any future development ever - little short sighted. If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.

Ps people saying the GAA just want to build what they want is a lie the design has already been altered with a loss of 4000 seats and a roof at one end but lets not let the truth get in the way of anything.
What about people whose property has been in their family's ownership before Casement was built?

While we're not letting the truth get in the way of things, what are your thoughts on potential entertainment licenses being granted for the new stadium?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 06:35:03 PM
as i a said in the past, i rather have the money to do up the main 6 counties stadiums, or in Armagh case pay of the bills as they done there refurb. Celtic park would take 7 million to do it right. then we advertise for supporters to fill it lol
Title: Re: Scaifte
Post by: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 06:44:03 PM
Quote from: drici on July 22, 2013, 01:42:27 AM
31,912 of a crowd at the Ulster Senior Football Final in Clones involving the Home County in both Minor and Senior Finals.

Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
The Ulster Final was a sell-out this year. Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements. There were no tickets available on the day or in the days leading up to the game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on September 12, 2013, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 06:35:03 PM
as i a said in the past, i rather have the money to do up the main 6 counties stadiums, or in Armagh case pay of the bills as they done there refurb. Celtic park would take 7 million to do it right. then we advertise for supporters to fill it lol
What about the other 3 counties, I realise it is NI gov money but surely Ulster Council remit includes those three? In any case I agree, I think most people would agree, but the money is for a stadium and nothing else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 07:09:49 PM
Quote from: qubdub on September 12, 2013, 06:44:44 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 06:35:03 PM
as i a said in the past, i rather have the money to do up the main 6 counties stadiums, or in Armagh case pay of the bills as they done there refurb. Celtic park would take 7 million to do it right. then we advertise for supporters to fill it lol
What about the other 3 counties, I realise it is NI gov money but surely Ulster Council remit includes those three? In any case I agree, I think most people would agree, but the money is for a stadium and nothing else.
I believe the option was for one stadium and nothing else. But considering the Ulster Council is topping up the public funding, maybe they should build a more modest stadium in Casement and spread the rest around. I'm not aware of any match-funding requirement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 07:15:19 PM
far as i am aware the money only cover the counties in northern ireland, but i think if there is not a refurb done, i am not sure if this money can be allocated to the other counties.

I rather derry get £7million to do up celtic Park, scrap their existing changing rooms, built a stand here, reseat the terrance area running along side the pitch, totally demolish the terrace area behind the far goal, rebulit a complete seated stand here with tunnels running under for the team coming from changing rooms built under/rear of this new stand, Honestly think derry people prefer that to doing up Casement that may be full 3 times in a year.

At least Clones had 20+ pubs to drink in before the game, round casement there is 4 if your lucky
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on September 12, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?
Beat me to it!!

Some lies there wildweasel......

This 'new' caseent pk if made will probably only, if at all full up only once a year if tyrone or armagh make final.

More than 4 pubs and anyway they suffice the four yer on about

The people in derry dont want celtic pk done up never mind anyone else

The ground at celtic pk is sufficint for what we have supporters wise. Sure owenbeg is less than half the size but it is.more loved already.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 07:50:16 PM
Owenbeg, love it to death since i was stuck in the carpark for 50mins against Sligo, have refused to go back to it since. the parking nightmare improve any round it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on September 12, 2013, 08:00:16 PM
they were looking to put a big black barrier there instead of gates last week.doesn't make a difference, I flegged this up before a game was played in owenbeg that there is only one entrance and one exit hence all the traffic problems. No such problems last week as all the dungiven 'fans' left wile wile early.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 08:27:21 PM
well it def needs 2 exits one for the mad north derry crowd  going left the other for the uppity south derry lot hitting right after the game
Title: Scéal
Post by: drici on September 13, 2013, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 06:44:03 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on September 13, 2013, 09:50:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 13, 2013, 10:39:07 AM
Quote from: Bingo on September 13, 2013, 09:50:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.


What about the American football ? Ulster rugby ? Soccer internationals ? Athletics ?


Casement will have to change its name first but all is possible.


Sprignsteen would sound good in the new Westminster sponsored amphitheatre. He says he's coming back soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on September 13, 2013, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 13, 2013, 09:51:11 AM
Quote from: Bingo on September 13, 2013, 09:50:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.
Oh, that's ok then.
I wonder why the residents have any objections at all.

You can be a right b*llix at times. Did I say it was ok or that this justified the build or should put the residents as ease.
Title: Re: Scéal
Post by: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
Quote from: drici on September 13, 2013, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 06:44:03 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/standing-room-only-as-the-field-begins-to-narrow-1.1477382

if Health & Safety measures hadn't reduced the capacity of Clones by 4,000 from what it was last year, we would have easily filled those as well.

"We had demand for almost 10,000 tickets over capacity for the Ulster final."


You're welcome.
Title: Scéal
Post by: drici on September 14, 2013, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
Quote from: drici on September 13, 2013, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 06:44:03 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/standing-room-only-as-the-field-begins-to-narrow-1.1477382

if Health & Safety measures hadn’t reduced the capacity of Clones by 4,000 from what it was last year, we would have easily filled those as well.

“We had demand for almost 10,000 tickets over capacity for the Ulster final.”


You're welcome.


No No - a link to the Health and Safety people - not a statement from one of them three hours of sunlight boys.
Title: Re: Scéal
Post by: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: drici on September 14, 2013, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 04:49:00 PM
Quote from: drici on September 13, 2013, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 06:44:03 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/standing-room-only-as-the-field-begins-to-narrow-1.1477382

if Health & Safety measures hadn't reduced the capacity of Clones by 4,000 from what it was last year, we would have easily filled those as well.

"We had demand for almost 10,000 tickets over capacity for the Ulster final."


You're welcome.


No No - a link to the Health and Safety people - not a statement from one of them three hours of sunlight boys.
I doubt they're online, but knock yourself out if you're interested enough to search for it. All I know is the reported attendance, the reported reduction in capacity, and the fact that I knew of people unable to get a ticket. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.
Title: Folamh
Post by: drici on September 14, 2013, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 05:20:41 PM

I doubt they're online, but knock yourself out if you're interested enough to search for it. All I know is the reported attendance, the reported reduction in capacity, and the fact that I knew of people unable to get a ticket. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.


No link then.
Title: Re: Folamh
Post by: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 05:58:17 PM
Quote from: drici on September 14, 2013, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 05:20:41 PM

I doubt they're online, but knock yourself out if you're interested enough to search for it. All I know is the reported attendance, the reported reduction in capacity, and the fact that I knew of people unable to get a ticket. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.


No link then.
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/07/heat-and-intensity-anticipated-for-clones/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 17, 2013, 12:26:13 AM
I think only a signed affidavit from the original source will do.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM
Jarlath Burns' article from this weeks Gaelic Life. Discuss!!


LAST week, I had reason to wander round west Belfast and rub shoulders with the big movers and shakers in the Casement Park Project. Tom Daly is the chair of the development committee. A former chair of Ulster GAA, he was definitely GAA Presidential material, but decided at the last minute not to run. He has been working tirelessly, along with Ryan Feeney, Stephen McGeehan and many others, to turn this project from blueprint, through bureaucracy to building. I don't envy their task. There are people for form filling, feasibility studies, hoop jumping and delicate diplomacy and I know my limits. This project, more than most, has required the skills only of those who would be prepared for the longest of hauls. Remember, the money was initially put aside for a multi-use stadium at the Maze/Long Kesh and the gut feeling of Ulster GAA people was to stay clear or bail out at the last minute. Thankfully, Danny Murphy knew what he was at and in a remarkable piece of skilled leadership, and tactics which would do justice to any poker player, he ensured that when that particular house of cards came tumbling down, the GAA were the last man standing. This left us totally entitled to our share of the cake when it would be divided out along the inevitable sectarian/sporting lines. And it was quite a large cake. £61.4 million which would be augmented by a further £15m from the GAA. A lot of money, and badly needed. It is easy to say that Ulster doesn't need a proper stadium. One can point to Clones, to Breffni and the plethora of other smaller grounds that could adequately serve the needs of Ulster Gaels over the next ten years, but this would be to miss the point. Yes, we do have a lot of grounds, but nothing for the future, nothing which could evenly remotely be compared to Croke Park, the Aviva, or the premier league grounds across the water. Casement is also the obvious choice, in the main centre of population and factoring in the reality that a stadium such as this could become an economic dynamo in the middle of a much deprived part of Belfast. Believe me, there is no queue of developers waiting to invest in west Belfast, so when a gift horse arrives, you get on it. It was a penalty kick. A 21st century state of the art stadium built on the site of a historic ground with a proud history right in the centre of a GAA sympathetic population in Ireland's second city. The road to get here has not been easy, therefore those in the centre of it deserve great credit. Creating a stadium in a built up area using government money is just about the trickiest bit of business possible and requires reserves of diplomacy and bureaucratic smarts of industrial quantities. It is also important to note that this money was earmarked for a stadium, not a series of little projects round the province, or debt clearing, or to fund centres of excellence, but a stadium. No stadium – no money. Simple as that. And it doesn't help when the Ulster Council receives friendly fire from within that the money could have been divided into nine, or even six. That's rhetoric that needs to stop. At this stage, every single hurdle, obstacle and barrier has been cleared, the finance is in place, the stadium design settled and every possible box ticked. It has taken its toll on the Ulster Council staff and the Antrim County Board, all of whom are exhausted by the challenges which have been put in their way to get us to where we are. And now some locals have reared their heads. Firstly the Casement Social Club and latterly the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association. If they get their way, there will be a judicial review and a public inquiry into the stadium design which might torpedo the entire project. This latest development is a sickening blow to the efforts of those who have spent the last five years of their lives attempting to get a 60 million cash injection into this area with a sustained job creation to come after. It is particularly hard to take, considering what this stadium suffered over 30 years of conflict and that for decades, the GAA was treated with utter contempt, under-funded and totally ignored by a succession of NI Stormont regimes. In the 70s the stadium itself was occupied by the British army. It would be a pathetic irony if our own people were to put the last barrier against what they call their own Association. It is simply incredulous that there are those who would want to torpedo the redevelopment of Casement Park. The very fact that social club drinkers should have any influence at all in the future infrastructural plans of the GAA in this province is almost laughable, it's like something out of Monty Python. Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association's main income generators. And while stadia plans everywhere require consent and co-operation from the local communities, this group of people are making arguments which do not stand up. Firstly they want the Ulster Council to sink the pitch a further twenty metres to reduce the height of the stands. The cost of this would make the entire project untenable and force the GAA to start again. Secondly, they reckon the stadium can be more compact if it is terraced instead of seated. In the modern era and considering future standards of stadium comfort, this is simply not an option. They do make a strong argument that there is no need for a stadium of this size because it would only be full on a few occasions and this is correct, but when planning a main provincial stadium, you start off with the needs of your biggest event and work back from there. Croke Park is rarely even half full, but it had to be built to the spec of the 80,000 who would want to watch an All-Ireland. Casement Park is no different. Stadiums of 15,000 are two a penny in Ulster, but you need a signature project to be your shop window and cater for your marquee events. The Casement Social Club has been a long term tenant of Casement Park and has historically passed on its profits to the Antrim County Board, but they should never hold a veto over the plans to rebuild the new stadium. The residents have a voice and deserve a hearing and to be respected, but this is a case of competing rights and the facts are that the large gleaming, beautiful structure which will emerge out of the west Belfast gloom, will help to regenerate the local economy and provide a much needed resource right in the heart of their community. It is understandable that the prospect of a high rise building in the vicinity of their homes creates anxiety, but this is the GAA, a community based volunteer led organisation which exists to serve the people and as such, deserves the benefit of the doubt. And Ulster GAA people should get behind this project also. At times I feel the response has been lukewarm. I remember well the arguments of the anti Croke Park lobby within the GAA back in the 90s, particularly with regard to the introduction of a premium level and corporate boxes. But these innovations have virtually paid for the stadium and continue to make it one of the top stadia in the world, as do the conference facilities which are constantly rated as the best in Ireland. It has provided dozens of jobs for the local people and having a socially responsible partner like the GAA on their doorstep has proved a real advantage to the residents of Clonliffe and Jones Road. The alternative for the Ulster GAA might very well be to move out of Casement entirely and sell the ground. God knows what would get built there. I hope the matter is resolved soon. It will require calm heads and lots of sense, but at the moment there seems little sign of either in the streets round Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on September 22, 2013, 01:24:26 PM
I wonder what Burns was promised for going to bat for Ulster Council?

I always hear this point about "regenerating a deprived area", and Burns is at it too, Andersonstown is not a deprived area, plenty of West Belfast is a kip but Andersonstown isn't.

I was coming out of Croke Park after the hurling final two weeks ago and there were two Clare fans pishing in the garden of a resident of Clonliffe Road. Have every sympathy for residents around Casement if that is what's ahead of them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on September 22, 2013, 06:05:32 PM
Really good article from Jarlath Burns. I totally agree with his comments re. the social club. I know lads who drink in it and wouldn't even stick their heads around the corner to watch Antrim play. They'd rather sit in the dark beneath the stadium and ridicule. They should have no say in this whatsoever.
I do have some sympathy for the residents, although it's ironic that their spokesperson John Crossey earned a living as a GAA employee and is now a most vehement opponent of the associations most important develpment in a decade.
I think it's crucial for the game in Ulster that it has a modern stadium that the GAA community can be proud of and it's important for Belfast, as the second city to be the location. Thank God the maze project never materialised!
Title: Suimúil
Post by: drici on September 23, 2013, 04:06:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM

Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association's main income generators.


Above is not a quote not from Watty Grahams but apparently from a Luí na Talún show presenter on bbc, a person who makes some comments in between the commentary on TG4, a person who is sometimes interviewed at Half Time during matches on TG4, a writer of columns(newspaperish).
Watched the Bernadette Documentary on TG4 the other night and her 'curs and dogs' description of journalists but noticed the statements emanating from the Ulster Council recently with their spin and their coldness and these slurs and inferences that have suddenly and very recently appeared against the good people of Andersonstown(just read back this thread - don't believe that this is any coincidence).

Have a lot of sympathy for any person from West Belfast who So Called 'Ulster Council' would literally cast them into darkness with their plan.
They have conferred upon themselves the title of 'Ulster Council'no doubt in the hope that their self importance would be recognised by others but oh how they have let that title down.
Non 'Ulster Council' people who vastly outnumber the previous mentioned and who live within the jurisdiction have legal rights without the need to confer titles upon themselves. They also have vastly superior rights to having daylight in their area as opposed to strangers who would designate three hours of sunlight per day to them in order to milk their new found cash cow.

Oh how the world has changed.
(From a graveside oration which in hindsight seems addressed to the non volunteer side of Ulster GAA)
They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half.
The people of West Belfast seem to believe that you have done neither 'Ulster Council'.


(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/15_zps0e5ee608.png)
For those who can no longer see.
Above is a 'tweet' from Silverbridge Harps GAA Club with a photograph of a drinks' bar being put together.
The message from Silverbridge Harps along with the photograph in the 'tweet' reads
'Looking more like a bar and less like pallets and plywood now'
(dated 10th May)


(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/16_zps5e0ba849.png)
For those of you who cannot see - above is a picture of a very large finished bar that must have taken a quare bit of effort to transform from the original 'pallets and plywood'
The message from Silverbridge Harps in the 'tweet' reads:
'And here's the finshed product!! All ready for the 1000 patrons coming to be entertained by Nathan Carter.
(dated 10th May)

(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/declanrice/17_zps70c75ac7.png)
For those of you who cannot see - the above is a photograph taken from a long view to emphasise the bar's length and gravity.
The message from Silverbridge Harps in the' tweet' reads:
'Ready for the busy night ahead'

They must do some drinking alright in Silverbridge Harps - probably a great 'generator'(to quote J Burns) for the GAA side of the Club though.

Quote from: Jarlath Burns on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM

Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association's main income generators.



Some say Hypocrisy begins at home.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 23, 2013, 08:54:38 AM
It is particularly hard to take, considering what this stadium suffered over 30 years of conflict and that for decades, the GAA was treated with utter contempt, under-funded and totally ignored by a succession of NI Stormont regimes. In the 70s the stadium itself was occupied by the British army. It would be a pathetic irony if our own people were to put the last barrier against what they call their own Association.

Its the above quote that really grinds my gears!! As if by opposing the design the residents are somehow undermining everything the GAA fought hard for during those troubled years.

He also talks about the potential for huge reinvestment in the vicinity of the new stadium. Apart from the Croke Park hotel I havent seen much change in the streets surrounding Croke Park this last 20 years!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2013, 09:22:40 AM
QuoteAbove is a 'tweet' from Silverbridge Harps GAA Club with a photograph of a drinks' bar being put together.

The difference is that the bar in Silverbridge serves to support the development of the playing facilities, not obstruct development.
Title: Re: Suimúil
Post by: johnneycool on September 23, 2013, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM

Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association's main income generators.


I'd say Jar is pretty wrong here. There's plenty of clubs staying afloat due to the income generated from their social clubs.

My whole problem with this is the why now is there so many objections? Were these people not consulted at the initial stages of the project? Was it thought they'd be steamed rolled into it? By the looks of it the Ulster council with its letter to all clubs etc and now Jarly wheeled out have underestimated the opposition and to their cost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lawnseed on September 23, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Just been outside checking that drici doesnt have a drone hovering round the place,  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 24, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen. 

Lazy analysis rrhf!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 24, 2013, 08:55:36 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 24, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen. 

Lazy analysis rrhf!!!
May be simplistic, but it would sometimes appear that way. I'd put it this way the GAA needs a stronger Ulster. In a political context it would also serve as an icon of the Nationalist cultural identity in a city swamped with Unionist icons. Notwithstanding all of that the residents need to be on board. I suspect though as with the Croke Park residents who have been acting as advisers it is about what can be extracted from the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:55:55 AM
Its from the outside looking in Id admit, and Ill accpet the planning issues need resolved but some of the arguements propogated about social club rights etc, parking (when there is a stadium already there) and targetted people who have put serious effort in to get this this far being negated by the fact of whether they are being paid to do so, stinks of small minded anti progress mentality.  Its easy and a very Irish way to be against something but more difficult to be proactively for progress. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 09:00:38 AM
Its not possible and you know it, so they want something that stops the stadium.  The greater good is this stadium and It will mess about until it dosent happen.  Now you are an Antrim man, kids dream of playing on facilities like this, I tell you what if they offered it to Tyrone we would be taking it in the morning, but then again maybe we do have a slightly different mentality. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 24, 2013, 09:09:35 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 08:57:31 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 24, 2013, 08:55:36 AM
I suspect though as with the Croke Park residents who have been acting as advisers it is about what can be extracted from the GAA.
I think the residents have outlined quite clearly what they want already but you suspect away.
What they have outlined and what they actually want are not necessarily the same though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 24, 2013, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 09:06:42 AM
Quote from: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 09:00:38 AM
Its not possible and you know it, so they want something that stops the stadium.
I don't actually and I don't know how you do.

The greater good... ::)

Hardstation,
for greater clarity on this, can you (re)post the residents areas of concern and requirements?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 24, 2013, 09:26:09 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 09:16:15 AM
They'll be on Nolan shortly and I imagine they will outline them again for themselves.

Not John Crossey on the radio, say it isn't so????  :D :D

I hope he can keep the expletive count down as his team talks would have been 5 minutes shorter without them..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 09:25:08 AM
Ironic that Crossey, a former County manager, is leading the opposition. Has he axes to grind against people in the GAA, outwith the actual stadium development itself?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 25, 2013, 09:30:09 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 09:25:08 AM
Ironic that Crossey, a former County manager, is leading the opposition. Has he axes to grind against people in the GAA, outwith the actual stadium development itself?

Not sure considering his last employers were Down CB and Armagh CB, neither directly involved in the redevelopment of Casement, he would be a regular in the social club though. He does live in Moreland park with his back garden facing into Casement, so he's directly impacted, not parachuted in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 10:46:53 AM
Surely any Gael worth his salt, would willingly sacrifice his garden and daylight itself for the Association?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 10:58:47 AM
Crossey of all people, should not be a NIMBY >:(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 25, 2013, 11:12:35 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 11:07:32 AM
Sorry, have I been transported to Nazi Germany?

There are many similarities between the GAA and the Nazis at times!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 01:09:35 PM
This is stupid.

You're not anti-GAA if you're against the stadium.

If anything, you're pro-GAA, because the current plans are clearly not the best way to spend a once in a century windfall of £70million.

The site is simply too small and constrained.

The big clue is the Andytown Rd stand with no roof.

If the site were bigger........ there would be greater distance from residents and we'd be able to get a taller building with all four stands having roofs.

If the site were bigger........  the budget would be enough to deliver a proper fully covered stadium. We wouldn't have to sink so many millions into underground concrete bunkers for car parking and ancillary facilities that would otherwise be built at ground level.

If the site were bigger........  the crowds could exit safely from the stadium and we wouldn't force the people of West Belfast to be held hostage on match days by closing one of Belfast's arterial routes, the Andytown Road. Or close down the new Belfast Rapid Transport system that is due to go down the Andytown Road.

If the site were bigger........  we would get the proper 40k, fully covered, fully seated stadium that this project was meant to provide. Not the 38k, 3/4 covered mutant that they're trying to peddle now.

If the site were bigger........  the long term running costs of the stadium would be cheaper, as we'd be able to hold far more non-sporting events such as concerts to cover future running costs.

If the site were bigger........  the stadium could be built using the near universal bowl stadium design that allows more bars, restaurants, conference facilities, etc to be built. Again decreasing long term running costs. The architects themselves have admitted that they couldn't do the optimal bowl design, or provide a roof at the Andytown Rd side because the site is too constrained.

If the site were bigger........  the deepest stand wouldn't be behind the Andytown goals, but would be in the main stands along each side, allowing more people to get optimal views, not substandard ones behind the goals.


But the site isn't bigger.....
It's time to take the funding elsewhere and build it on a site that is big enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen.

I agree that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast should be found.
Ideally, if Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls. 

Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement is ideally suited.
Politically a more neutral location, it would also attract more non-match day income.
It is much bigger site, allowing a truly exemplar design 40k fully covered stadium to be developed.
Something really tall and high impact to advertise the GAA and Irish dimension to our city.

It is big enough to allow crowds to exit the stadium and disperse without having to close neighbouring arterial routes. And closer to train stations as well.

Car parking and other ancilliary building can be done at ground level, not by building expensive underground concrete bunkers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on September 25, 2013, 02:19:24 PM
Jarlath Burns remedy for economic deprivation in belfast is to build a stadium that the locals clearly dont want . While at the same time taking a major economic benefit from a deprived rural community. I look forward to his future articles about rural decline and its impact on Gaa clubs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 02:23:24 PM
I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orchardman on September 25, 2013, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 22, 2013, 05:52:55 PM
I don't think anyone on here is surprised to see Burns weigh in behind the GAA here.
The biggest ball licker there has ever been.

A number of points, Jarly, I know you read...

Who told you that the residents wanted it sunk 20 metres? And who advised you on the cost of this??
I ask because the residents committee only asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and DCAL could not provide them with costs of doing so as "costings had not yet been done". Stop making stuff up.

As for your opening about these 3 people working tirelessly for the GAA... 2 of them are well paid for it. It is not grassroots nor volunteerism.


Your tongue is for licking ice cream, Jarly, nothing else.

Much as I think Belfast need's a proper stadium, I understand why the locals would want nothing to do with it and so wouldn't agree with everything burns said.

But this post made me cringe, fairly poor effort
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on September 25, 2013, 02:30:38 PM

I want to know what these residents were doing living in the social club. This economic hardship has deeper roots in west belfast than most places by the sound of it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 02:47:30 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 02:23:24 PM
I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere

You're not looking too hard, or reading my posts.

Musgrave Park, 329 metres away from Casement.


As for the residents looking for money - if they get it now, they'd always be asking for it.

Why tie ourselves into long term blackmail opportunities every time we want to hold any concert or event there?

And it mightn't stop with just immediately adjoining residents either. How much compensation would the GAA be asked for when some mother can't get to see her sick child at the Royal because the Andytown Rd is closed for several hours to accommodate a match and there is gridlock.  The GAA would be walking into a PR disaster.

Far better to build on a bigger site, far enough away from residents and not be vulnerable to blackmail.

Like Musgrave Park.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 03:35:55 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on September 25, 2013, 02:19:24 PM
Jarlath Burns remedy for economic deprivation in belfast is to build a stadium that the locals clearly dont want . While at the same time taking a major economic benefit from a deprived rural community. I look forward to his future articles about rural decline and its impact on Gaa clubs.

It's in the GAA's interests to build any new stadium closest to large centres of population in order to reduce the long-term running costs of the stadium.
Events like concerts and conferences are vital to get the money in. That's why stadii generally do best when located in cities, not in the middle of nowhere.

The marketing / profile rasing benefits are also much higher by putting it in Belfast.

The only thing they've got wrong is in picking a site that is too small and constrained. Admittedly, they were given a bum steer by some anonymous consultancy report in 2010, but surely they can see the sense in moving on to a bigger site Plan B.

A more politically neutral site like Musgrave Park would also raise more money for long term running costs, as it would be likely to get more conferences, events, etc from the Belfast business community who (rightly or wrongly) wouldn't consider the A'town Rd, a mere 329 metres away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 25, 2013, 03:45:52 PM
will it change your mind?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 25, 2013, 03:56:15 PM
The article says Crossey "isn't aware " when asked about certain residents dropping their opposition for 20k
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:13:51 PM
Has anyone allegedly offered the residents 20k, or is this
a. some residents chancing their arm, or
b. an attempt to smear the residents
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
First off I can't see why Jarlath Burns has been brought into this, other than a GAA member giving his opinion, I don't see the need to brand him a 'ball licker'? Other than some personal gripe against the man.

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on September 25, 2013, 04:21:30 PM
Have a local election/ballot, simple Yes or No, majority wins.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 25, 2013, 04:26:58 PM
Quote from: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
First off I can't see why Jarlath Burns has been brought into this, other than a GAA member giving his opinion, I don't see the need to brand him a 'ball licker'? Other than some personal gripe against the man.

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

Could a solution not be a single tier. 25k of higher spec (i.e fully covered) with the additional saving from a lower capacity you could incorporate a centre that would cater for arts, adult learning etc. To me it seems the GAA havent thought this through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 25, 2013, 04:31:40 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 02:23:24 PM
I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere
Tony, not quite, what the article reports is that John Crossey is not aware of individuals reportedly willing to stop opposition for £20k.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:33:21 PM
Quote from: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

I do see an easy solution.

Get talking to the Alliance, Sinn Fein and SDLP on Belfast City Council.

Tell them that we'd like to develop a genuine exemplar landmark 40k, fully covered stadium in Musgrave Park.
If necesary, the development could be on some sort of partnership basis.

Inform them that if the council can't provide the site on agreeable terms, then we will take our stadium development elsewhere, eg Dungannon.

Emphasise the economic gains that having such a stadium would have for Belfast, eg GAA events, International Rules, Concerts, Conferences and the Rugby World Cup.

If Alliance/Belfast City Council don't co-operate, then run a beauty contest amongst locations that would like the investment. See what we can get in return, eg sites, infrastructure, facilitating development, etc.





Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 25, 2013, 04:36:32 PM
The bottom line is this money is available to the GAA for a one off Stadium build. It is not available for Clones so therefore Jarlath Burns arguments are not necessarily anti Clones or anti rural development. But if the GAA doesn't take the money for the stadium it will end up elsewhere. There needs to be an accomodation with residents but they can't hold the association to ransom. If there is loss of amenity on behalf of residents which devalues their houses then they should be compensated sufficiently to allow them to either move or stay as they see fit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:43:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 25, 2013, 04:36:32 PM
The bottom line is this money is available to the GAA for a one off Stadium build. It is not available for Clones so therefore Jarlath Burns arguments are not necessarily anti Clones or anti rural development. But if the GAA doesn't take the money for the stadium it will end up elsewhere. There needs to be an accomodation with residents but they can't hold the association to ransom. If there is loss of amenity on behalf of residents which devalues their houses then they should be compensated sufficiently to allow them to either move or stay as they see fit.

or, more sensibly, start again on a different site.

Take the money and build on a site where
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 25, 2013, 04:44:01 PM
Can the redevelopment go ahead without the residents' acceptance or are you talking about months and years of court cases?

If it can't be lowered to suit the residents then it shouldn't be built.

I can't believe all this wasn't discussed before Casement was even mentioned. (Unless the plans were radically changed in the meantime)

Bring her to Dungannon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:46:04 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:33:21 PM
Quote from: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

I do see an easy solution.

Get talking to the Alliance, Sinn Fein and SDLP on Belfast City Council.

Tell them that we'd like to develop a genuine exemplar landmark 40k, fully covered stadium in Musgrave Park.
If necesary, the development could be on some sort of partnership basis.

Inform them that if the council can't provide the site on agreeable terms, then we will take our stadium development elsewhere, eg Dungannon.

Emphasise the economic gains that having such a stadium would have for Belfast, eg GAA events, International Rules, Concerts, Conferences and the Rugby World Cup.

If Alliance/Belfast City Council don't co-operate, then run a beauty contest amongst locations that would like the investment. See what we can get in return, eg sites, infrastructure, facilitating development, etc.






Of course there is a lot of common sense in that post which is why I disagree with it!

My impression is that the money has to be spent in Belfast, or as close as possible. I also have a feeling that there is one eye being kept on the potential for concerts being held in the stadium (which is ridiculous). Hence it staying in Belfast.

Bearing in mind the GAA already have the site and are entitled to (apply to) develop it in whatever way they wish. I can't see Musgrave Park being a runner - there's also the added complications of bringing in another stakeholder i.e. BCC.

There are economic gains to be had hence the big push for it, but how these gains are benefited by the residents who would have to live in the shadow remains to be seen.

At the end of the day Stormont is providing the doe so they have the last say, I feel that Casement will be the site in some shape or another, more's the pity because it's such an ill-though out proposal!
Title: Gránna
Post by: drici on September 26, 2013, 01:48:43 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 02:23:24 PM

I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation


Quote from: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:13:51 PM

Has anyone allegedly offered the residents 20k, or is this
a. some residents chancing their arm, or
b. an attempt to smear the residents


Well done T Fearon for highlighting how something can be put into the public domain without any facts involved but gives leeway to an agenda - hence your very careful use of the word suggest.

Well done snatter for asking the relevant question in relation to this.

Is this the start of a campaign to publicly slur the residents through newspapers and radio as a deflection from the Iconic Monstrosity cash cow with demeaning claims against the people of West Belfast themselves?

Could be but we'll all wait and see.

Hopefully the Ulster Council may be able to rise above grubbing about the floor with your man talking about it being 'overcast today' on the radio on Tuesday in relation to discussions about rights to light.

Title: Fosta
Post by: drici on September 26, 2013, 02:14:52 AM
Oh aye,

- apparently this story about the 20,000 smackeroonies was in 'The Sun' - (yes the  'paper' of the 'Falls Road Fenians' quote) on Monday with the story that one resident had put in a claim for that amount of compensation (apparently he is a very old man who has no grandchildren and says that his garden is of little use to him now - but no matter - he has a legal right to put in for the same)  but by Tuesday the Irish News felt able to put in their paper 'some residents.'

Yes - 'The Sun' carrying a story about no sun.





Ah Bernadette.
Title: Re: Fosta
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 10:00:00 AM
Quote from: drici on September 26, 2013, 02:14:52 AM
Oh aye,

- apparently this story about the 20,000 smackeroonies was in 'The Sun' - (yes the  'paper' of the 'Falls Road Fenians' quote) on Monday with the story that one resident had put in a claim for that amount of compensation (apparently he is a very old man who has no grandchildren and says that his garden is of little use to him now - but no matter - he has a legal right to put in for the same)  but by Tuesday the Irish News felt able to put in their paper 'some residents.'

Yes - 'The Sun' carrying a story about no sun.





Ah Bernadette.
Tony, not quite, what the article reports is that John Crossey" is not aware of individuals reportedly willing to stop opposition for £20k".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 26, 2013, 10:31:49 AM
Hardstation. What is the residents stance on the capacity/design/height etc??

Have they given a ball park figure in terms of capacity?

I still believe a single tier is the answer. Anyone who knows anything about noise/acoustics will know a single tier improves atmosphere!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 26, 2013, 10:33:57 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 26, 2013, 10:28:35 AM
I certainly believe that there has been a clear and deliberate misrepresentation of one side of this arguement from certain journalist quarters over this last week.

Now, everybody is fully entitled to their opinion on this and can sit on whichever side of this particular fence they wish (I don't deny there are good arguements to be had on both sides) but the publication of false information in an attempt to discredit the other side is completely pathetic.


It might be pathetic alright. But isn't that how the GAA works ?

If the top table want something, they'll get ot by fair means or foul.

That was always the case - always will be. You can expect more of the same until this project is completed.

Residents will get looked after before it's all over.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: J OGorman on September 26, 2013, 12:31:58 PM
On way the digger already!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 27, 2013, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 26, 2013, 10:37:00 AM
I haven't been speaking to any of them for a few of days so I'm unsure of any developments but the last I heard was that they have asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and asked DCAL to provide them with the cost of doing so. I don't think they have heard anything yet.
This place aint Pisa ye know.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 27, 2013, 05:20:35 PM
I dislike naysayers and opportunists in equal measure. 
Title: Contráilte
Post by: drici on September 30, 2013, 02:53:17 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM
Jarlath Burns' article from this weeks Gaelic Life. Discuss!!

This left us totally entitled to our share of the cake when it would be divided out along the inevitable sectarian/sporting lines.


This is horrible and totally wrong.
A sectarian stadium - only going by the quote above -  but people from outside Belfast have decided to cast a large close-knit community into darkness when they have a choice of sinking the pitch - so the height of the new grandstands comply with the same distance away from the houses and the same height as the only grandstand which currently is there now which the people of the area would be supportive of - and also at the same time as there is a large recently opened shopping centre in the very centre of Belfast which is below sea level because it has been sunk - but on the higher levels of Andersonstown where it would be such much easier to do so - there seems no wish on the part of these
Quote from: rrhf on September 27, 2013, 05:20:35 PM
opportunists 
to do so.
GAA people from outside Béal Feirsde seem to want(and it is an appearance - also read back on this thread) to 'sicken the Planters' by throwing people from West Belfast into coldness and darkness so they can milk their iconic and now - given the above article -  'sectarian' monstrosity major cash cow.
Cruel - Wrong - Morally- Intellectually - whatever words are on the go now.
This is evil.
You cannot justify doing this to people.
People are real - not how many hamburgers at 4 quid and pints at 5 quid and 'sure look at the fortune we're makin' out of them eejits.'
Back off and do the right thing.
Unbelievable.
Do not do this to a community.
Do not do this to real people.
It is wrong.
Sectarianism under any guise is wrong.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Do not hurt people.
It is wrong.
The whole concept of what is and has been put forward is wrong.
The forces of darkness in this case are wrong - why do they pursue?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 30, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on September 30, 2013, 12:53:29 PM
this is the GAA, a community based volunteer led organisation which exists to serve the people and as such, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I was quite ambivalent about the whole project until I read Burns load of tosh. He doesn't say what people they are serving!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 30, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.

Snatter. A GAA stadium in any location in Belfast outside of West Belfast would become a focal point for Loyalist nutter's for publicity stunts, parades and objections to flying the tricolour.  Embedding the GAA in unwanted controversy. I think the concert and conference argument is a red herring as any GAA ground will never be viewed as a neutral venue.

I think Dungannon should be looked at as a serious alternative.  The Area around Quarry lane right up to Anne Street is underdeveloped and would be ideal for a stadium of this nature. Centrally located in Ulster with easy access to motorway and numerous access roads from all parts of the province. It is also a historical center for the province and is located at the heart of a massive GAA hinterland.
Title: Re: Contráilte
Post by: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: drici on September 30, 2013, 02:53:17 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM
Jarlath Burns' article from this weeks Gaelic Life. Discuss!!

This left us totally entitled to our share of the cake when it would be divided out along the inevitable sectarian/sporting lines.


This is horrible and totally wrong.
A sectarian stadium - only going by the quote above -  but people from outside Belfast have decided to cast a large close-knit community into darkness when they have a choice of sinking the pitch - so the height of the new grandstands comply with the same distance away from the houses and the same height as the only grandstand which currently is there now which the people of the area would be supportive of - and also at the same time as there is a large recently opened shopping centre in the very centre of Belfast which is below sea level because it has been sunk - but on the higher levels of Andersonstown where it would be such much easier to do so - there seems no wish on the part of these
Quote from: rrhf on September 27, 2013, 05:20:35 PM
opportunists 
to do so.
GAA people from outside Béal Feirsde seem to want(and it is an appearance - also read back on this thread) to 'sicken the Planters' by throwing people from West Belfast into coldness and darkness so they can milk their iconic and now - given the above article -  'sectarian' monstrosity major cash cow.
Cruel - Wrong - Morally- Intellectually - whatever words are on the go now.
This is evil.
You cannot justify doing this to people.
People are real - not how many hamburgers at 4 quid and pints at 5 quid and 'sure look at the fortune we're makin' out of them eejits.'
Back off and do the right thing.
Unbelievable.
Do not do this to a community.
Do not do this to real people.
It is wrong.
Sectarianism under any guise is wrong.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Do not hurt people.
It is wrong.
The whole concept of what is and has been put forward is wrong.
The forces of darkness in this case are wrong - why do they pursue?
Im not arguing with any of that..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 05:43:34 PM
Why build it in Dungannon, when Omagh is up the road? Plus, Antrim need a stadium so it makes sense to have it in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 30, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
The Ken Maginniss Park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2013, 11:00:21 PM
QuoteHealy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Would this new super stadium be like a Christmas tree, used for 2 weeks of the year?

If the GAA are prevented from building in Belfast by residents, they should donate Casement to the Travellers Housing association.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 30, 2013, 11:26:20 PM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 11:33:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!

The whole project for me appears to be something of a white elephant anyways so if it has to be built why not at least make it accessible to the majority of the GAA public in the province rather than stuck in a city which has little interest in Gaelic games in an area where it's not wanted.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:45:24 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 11:33:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!

The whole project for me appears to be something of a white elephant anyways so if it has to be built why not at least make it accessible to the majority of the GAA public in the province rather than stuck in a city which has little interest in Gaelic games in an area where it's not wanted.

A city with little interest in GAA... Hmm, sounds familiar. Maybe the GAA could throw millions into Belfast and get Antrim hurling and football to the top.

I agree to a point. If you're going to build an all seated stadium that would host Ulster finals/Rules/QFs etc, then a more central venue in Ulster would be better. Like Armagh/Dungannon/Cookstown or whatever. But every county has a relatively new 18,000+ stadium except Antrim. So it makes sense to kill two birds with the one stone, and put it in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:00:52 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:45:24 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 11:33:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!

The whole project for me appears to be something of a white elephant anyways so if it has to be built why not at least make it accessible to the majority of the GAA public in the province rather than stuck in a city which has little interest in Gaelic games in an area where it's not wanted.

A city with little interest in GAA... Hmm, sounds familiar. Maybe the GAA could throw millions into Belfast and get Antrim hurling and football to the top.

I agree to a point. If you're going to build an all seated stadium that would host Ulster finals/Rules/QFs etc, then a more central venue in Ulster would be better. Like Armagh/Dungannon/Cookstown or whatever. But every county has a relatively new 18,000+ stadium except Antrim. So it makes sense to kill two birds with the one stone, and put it in Belfast.

Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

The only questions I need answered is if Casement development dose not go ahead do Donaghmore have to give back their new seats ?

Did the Antrim County Board sell of the furniture a little early ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 01, 2013, 12:13:56 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:00:52 AM
Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

St Gall's won the AI Club and got to the final another time. St Gall's hurlers reached a Club final too a few years ago. How is that not a good GAA tradition in Belfast? And that's just one club. It shouldn't be just Dublin that benefits from massive handouts, but other cities/counties too.

The Casement/residents thing is a different issue. It needs to be sorted though, but I still believe Casement will go ahead. It might just be later than expected.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:41:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2013, 12:13:56 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:00:52 AM
Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

St Gall's won the AI Club and got to the final another time. St Gall's hurlers reached a Club final too a few years ago. How is that not a good GAA tradition in Belfast? And that's just one club. It shouldn't be just Dublin that benefits from massive handouts, but other cities/counties too.

The Casement/residents thing is a different issue. It needs to be sorted though, but I still believe Casement will go ahead. It might just be later than expected.

Benny to be perfectly honest I hope it doesn't go ahead at all and certainly not in Belfast.  Why should people from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Derry, West Tyrone,  South Down and Armagh be expected to travel greater distances to Ulster Semis and Finals than they currently do. These area's are the heartlands of the GAA in Ulster and as such the location of their premium games should not be as far away for them. Add in the fact that Belfast is not the most welcoming of places for visiting GAA people particularly at the time of year these games are played. It just takesone bad year of marches before the Ulster Final is targeted for disruption.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 12:55:56 AM
Croppy lie down
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 08:02:49 AM
It's the truth I swear to God
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 01, 2013, 12:37:49 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 30, 2013, 11:26:20 PM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?

If the tree is evergreen, and is one of at least a pair, then yes, you can force them to cut it down.
On the grounds of unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The same reasons why the GAA haven't been able to propose putting a roof on the deepest stand in the proposed £75 Casement stadium. The roof would have been too close to the apartments on the other side of the Andytown Rd, giving them unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The residents alongside the shallower main stands at the sides of the pitch may or may not lose an unacceptable amount of daylight depending on how transparent the transparent roof material is, and how often it gets cleaned.

But they'll definately lose visual amenity, having to look directly into the side of a building whose height  dwarves their houses and gardens.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 01, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
QuoteWhat's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 01, 2013, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
QuoteWhat's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.

Would that not be just a case of poor maintenance of that gravel track which surrounds the pitch, causing water to lie as opposed to being lower than the water table??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on October 01, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:41:13 AM
Benny to be perfectly honest I hope it doesn't go ahead at all and certainly not in Belfast.  Why should people from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Derry, West Tyrone,  South Down and Armagh be expected to travel greater distances to Ulster Semis and Finals than they currently do. These area's are the heartlands of the GAA in Ulster and as such the location of their premium games should not be as far away for them. Add in the fact that Belfast is not the most welcoming of places for visiting GAA people particularly at the time of year these games are played. It just takesone bad year of marches before the Ulster Final is targeted for disruption.

The heartlands of the GAA in Ulster? Last time I checked barely two of these counties could field a competitive team at the Christy Ring hurling level.

In any case which country has the most GAA Clubs in Ulster? I'd wager Antrim would be nearer the top than some of these 'heartlands' that you list.

The fact remains that Belfast is much easier to get to with more methods of transport than any other venue. And I can't believe that anyone would be suggesting that Belfast isn't the most welcoming of places - how many times have there been riots during, before or after an intercounty GAA match at Casement? I can't recall one personally.

Which begs another question - why would you let loyalists determine how, where and when you play Gaelic games?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on October 01, 2013, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:41:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2013, 12:13:56 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:00:52 AM
Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

St Gall's won the AI Club and got to the final another time. St Gall's hurlers reached a Club final too a few years ago. How is that not a good GAA tradition in Belfast? And that's just one club. It shouldn't be just Dublin that benefits from massive handouts, but other cities/counties too.

The Casement/residents thing is a different issue. It needs to be sorted though, but I still believe Casement will go ahead. It might just be later than expected.

Benny to be perfectly honest I hope it doesn't go ahead at all and certainly not in Belfast.  Why should people from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Derry, West Tyrone,  South Down and Armagh be expected to travel greater distances to Ulster Semis and Finals than they currently do. These area's are the heartlands of the GAA in Ulster and as such the location of their premium games should not be as far away for them. Add in the fact that Belfast is not the most welcoming of places for visiting GAA people particularly at the time of year these games are played. It just takesone bad year of marches before the Ulster Final is targeted for disruption.
Jesus you'd think there was no GAA clubs in Belfast  ::) It's not Beirut ffs.

You do realise, that if your county reaches a semi final or final that it IS NOT going to be played in your own county, so a bit of travel will be required to go and see your team!!!



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on October 01, 2013, 01:30:57 PM
Think he means Geographically situated. More mid Ulster would have been suitable for all Counties. more so for Cavan. But if it goes ahead in Belfast so be it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on October 01, 2013, 01:42:01 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 01, 2013, 01:30:57 PM
Think he means Geographically situated. More mid Ulster would have been suitable for all Counties. more so for Cavan. But if it goes ahead in Belfast so be it.
I think the regional capital deserves a modern GAA stadium albeit I don't agree with the current plans.

That said I also don't agree the stadium should be moved to x, y or z on the grounds that it's close to a 'gaa heartland'. I'd say there's as many GAA clubs in West Belfast if not more as there are in most of these 'heartlands'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 01, 2013, 01:48:23 PM
Are the Architects (on the advice of the GAA) being cute with their 2 tier design in order to accomodate corporate boxes?, which as we all know are the most important 'patrons' at any game  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on October 01, 2013, 02:46:31 PM
To say MidUlster would be suited for all counties may be true as the crow flies, but Belfast as the regional capital is the easiest place to get to from any given Ulster County. Not just in terms of cars but in terms of public and private transport.

I think, on top of this, that we will see a Croke Park style arrangement with concerts etc to be held there too because it won't make enough money to be sustainable on its GAA revenue alone. For example, had it been ready to go when that Cliftonville Celtic game was fixed it would almost certainly have been used in my opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 02:50:05 PM
QuoteTo say MidUlster would be suited for all counties may be true as the crow flies, but Belfast as the regional capital is the easiest place to get to from any given Ulster County. Not just in terms of cars but in terms of public and private transport.

Nonsense. By  definition any place west of Belfast is more central.

QuoteI think, on top of this, that we will see a Croke Park style arrangement with concerts etc to be held there too because it won't make enough money to be sustainable on its GAA revenue alone. For example, had it been ready to go when that Cliftonville Celtic game was fixed it would almost certainly have been used in my opinion.

Have the rules of the GAA been set up to allow foreign sports in Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 01, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 01:12:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
QuoteWhat's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Spare us the detail.... ;D
the first 20 rows of seats at Old Trafford are under ground level. I would assume Croke Park has something similar, i think it is the norm for most Stadiums
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 01, 2013, 04:08:24 PM
I think we should just return the money and let them spend it on building a new stadium for The Belfast Giants, the true ambassadors of sport in Belfast. Why would the biggest sporting body in the Province (9 County) want a top class venue in the capital city of that Province (9 County)?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on October 01, 2013, 04:43:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 02:50:05 PM

Have the rules of the GAA been set up to allow foreign sports in Casement?

Give it time.

I don't understand the rest of Ulster being ambivalent towards a new stadium in Belfast. The second biggest city on this island should be given a proper stadium for the biggest sport on the island. Ulster GAA's primary aim should be to promote the GAA in urban areas and this would be a massive fillip.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 06:54:27 PM
Quote from: snatter on October 01, 2013, 12:37:49 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 30, 2013, 11:26:20 PM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?

If the tree is evergreen, and is one of at least a pair, then yes, you can force them to cut it down.
On the grounds of unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The same reasons why the GAA haven't been able to propose putting a roof on the deepest stand in the proposed £75 Casement stadium. The roof would have been too close to the apartments on the other side of the Andytown Rd, giving them unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The residents alongside the shallower main stands at the sides of the pitch may or may not lose an unacceptable amount of daylight depending on how transparent the transparent roof material is, and how often it gets cleaned.

But they'll definately lose visual amenity, having to look directly into the side of a building whose height  dwarves their houses and gardens.
It's an ash tree
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on October 01, 2013, 07:09:50 PM
The only way you would fill the new Casement would be to get Celtic to play Man Utd in a friendly, that would get the locals out in their thousands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on October 01, 2013, 07:33:03 PM

How many of these houses were there before casement park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 08:48:34 PM
How many of the residents were there before Casement Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on October 02, 2013, 12:06:29 AM

Mr Crossey aside, i do wonder about the thought processes of people who buy a house to a major sports stadium then are surprised / irate when the stadium is upgraded
Title: Airgead
Post by: drici on October 02, 2013, 12:58:13 AM
Quote from: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:31:52 PM

These guys are governed by rules / laws etc.   


Do try to avoid making a large monetary donation to any political party currently in a  'ministerial' position regarding the outcome of the decision.

Oh Dear Oh dear Oh dear
Title: Seo Chugat
Post by: drici on October 02, 2013, 01:34:36 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 02, 2013, 12:06:29 AM

Mr Crossey aside, i do wonder about the thought processes of people who buy a house to a major sports stadium then are surprised / irate when the stadium is upgraded

Don't just attack the people.
Rules say you have to not only take away the integrity of West Belfast volunteer GAA people but also the houses they live in as well.
Are you a proper GAA man or not?


'Designation BT 070 Area of Townscape Character Stockman's Lane/Mooreland Park


An Area of Townscape Character is designated at Stockman's Lane/Mooreland Park as identified on Map No. 4/003 - Belfast City and on clarification Map No. 4/047 – Stockman's Lane/Mooreland Park Area of Townscape Character.

Key features of the area which will be taken into account when assessing development proposals are as follows:-
The Edwardian and Victorian two storey terraced and semi-detached housing of similar size and in single family occupancy. These properties are gable ended with slated double–pitched roofs, with some faced in red clay brick and some with pebbledash (Mooreland Park). They feature lean-to bays on the ground floor and arched gable flues terminated in brick chimneys;
The Art Deco stained glass, which has survived in some of the front room windows of the properties;
The two storey, hipped roof, white semi-detached villas located at the bottom of Stockman's Lane, which are typical of the 1920s/1930s model built widely throughout the city;
"Colin View", at Nos. 177-191 Stockman's Lane, which is a two storey brick terrace and is more rural in nature;
The framed views of the mountains to the west from Mooreland Park and Stockman's Lane, which rise towards the Andersonstown Road;
The front and rear gardens, characteristic of each house, with a variety of front boundaries, including some original ironwork, brick dwarf walls and privet hedges;
The trees at the western end of Mooreland Park; and
The wide asphalt and bitmac streets and footpaths.'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 02, 2013, 04:57:00 AM
What in God's name is that about?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on October 02, 2013, 08:31:58 AM

Dont think anyone REALLY doubts that HS. Its about perception i guess. You may think th uc are losing the pr war here but theyre not among the GAA public.

The perception is that the residents want money and are inventing objections and push forward represntatives to perpetuate the whole situation.

Title: Cearta
Post by: drici on October 02, 2013, 10:49:48 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 02, 2013, 04:57:00 AM

What in God's name is that about?


snatter would probably have the inside track on that but it does seem from the planners that the townscape/houses have acquired 'rights' according to their rules.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 02, 2013, 11:32:22 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 01, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 01:12:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
QuoteWhat's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Spare us the detail.... ;D
the first 20 rows of seats at Old Trafford are under ground level. I would assume Croke Park has something similar, i think it is the norm for most Stadiums

Croke Park pitch would be above the level of the railway, which is above the level of the canal, that runs under the Davin Stand. So I would say that Croke Park is at ground level.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2013, 07:29:39 AM
How many clubs in Belfast? In comparison to the 'heartlands' of Cavan, Donegal, and West Tyrone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on October 08, 2013, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2013, 07:29:39 AM
How many clubs in Belfast? In comparison to the 'heartlands' of Cavan, Donegal, and West Tyrone.

There are about 22/23 clubs on the Antrim side of Belfast, approx. 25 if you include the Londondown clubs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on November 19, 2013, 07:31:07 PM
Gaa defends Casement Park development plan



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24998165


The Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) has defended its plan to redevelop its west Belfast stadium in the wake of growing opposition from residents.

The GAA is intending to build a 38,000-seat stadium at its existing sports ground in Casement Park.

The association has said that concerns about traffic disruption and noise pollution will be addressed.

But, at a meeting on Monday night, a group of residents claimed their civil rights were being ignored.

About 200 people attended the residents meeting, at which some said that the proposed new stadium must be stopped.

One resident told the meeting: "We're not opposed to a development of the GAA in this city but we need it to be done to the satisfaction of the residents."

Another man said: "The new Casement Park will have as much relevance to the grassroots GAA in west Belfast as the man in the moon."

A woman from west Belfast told the meeting: "We pay our taxes, we live in Andersonstown and a lot of people that are trying to force it through don't live here."

However, Ryan Feeney from the Ulster Council of the GAA said the residents had been listened to.

He told BBC Radio Ulster's Talkback programme: "We've tried now for the last 16 months to build a level of consensus around the stadium project. There is a wide level of support in the wider west (Belfast) and right across this city for the project."

Mr Feeney added: "I can give a cast-iron assurance we will do our best that (residents') concerns are addressed."

He also said that he hoped planning permission for the new £70m stadium would be granted soon.

The MP for West Belfast, Sinn Féin's Paul Maskey, said the development would create employment in the area and concerns about the road infrastructure could be resolved through dialogue with residents.

Mr Maskey also suggested that a number of people from the local residents association could become members of the Casement Park board.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2013, 09:51:21 PM
QuoteMr Maskey also said that the further you go away from Casement Pk, the more support there is for the stadium.

The further you go away from Casement Pk, the more support there is for the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 19, 2013, 10:17:17 PM
Is there fcuk?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: east down gael on November 19, 2013, 11:19:01 PM
Does being opposed to the redevelopment of casement automatically make you anti-gaa?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on November 19, 2013, 11:33:48 PM
How does this work ?


The MP for West Belfast, Sinn Féin's Paul Maskey, said the development would create employment in the area and concerns about the road infrastructure could be resolved through dialogue with residents.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 06:26:12 AM
Is road infrastructure the job of the locals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2013, 07:07:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 02, 2013, 07:23:56 AM
I will say it again - The residents are not opposed to the redevelopment of Casement Park.

I can't be arsed sifting back through for the details, so I'll just ask.

Who is then?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2013, 07:09:06 AM
Quote from: orangeman on November 19, 2013, 11:33:48 PM
How does this work ?

The MP for West Belfast, Sinn Féin's Paul Maskey, said the development would create employment in the area and concerns about the road infrastructure could be resolved through dialogue with residents.

You don't expect the politicians to seriously consider spending actual money to fix an actual problem do you?

They'll talk the f**king problem to death, before falling out, establishing a commission to look into it then spend all their money on impact studies.  ::)

Bunch of f**king clowns.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 07:41:21 AM
Maze didn't happen, m5 project didn't happen, narrow water bridge didn't happen all a blaming match when the project falls through. The eyes of the northern gaa are watching this and if it falls then we can make our own minds up as to who is to blame.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 12:24:53 PM
This is dragging on and on. The GAA should either appease the residents and reduce the capacity to say 30000 (although whether that reduces the height and improves daylight I dont know) or sell the land and build a nice new stadium elsewhere, the residents will then have to panic about the inevitable arrival of a 24 hour tesco extra.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2013, 12:26:58 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 12:24:53 PM
This is dragging on and on. The GAA should either appease the residents and reduce the capacity to say 30000 (although whether that reduces the height and improves daylight I dont know) or sell the land and build a nice new stadium elsewhere, the residents will then have to panic about the inevitable arrival of a 24 hour tesco extra.

No nice apartments from the Housing Executive, would solve a lot of housing issues in West Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2013, 12:39:48 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 20, 2013, 08:03:14 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2013, 07:07:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 02, 2013, 07:23:56 AM
I will say it again - The residents are not opposed to the redevelopment of Casement Park.

I can't be arsed sifting back through for the details, so I'll just ask.

Who is then?
Nobody afaik. The residents are opposed mainly to the size of the proposed stadium.



I sense opportunity here...

I for one don't want a f**king soccer-drome all-seater stadium.

So, if the Ulster Council want the same capacity in a smaller structure, keep the terracing, but stick a wee roof over it.

Ye know it makes sense!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 01:29:11 PM
'I have to say though, I am beginning to enjoy JPGJOHNNYG's "100 other ways to annoy the residents" posts. It seems that be it through building a stadium or not, JPGJOHNNYG just wants the residents around Casement Park to be pissed off'

The whole topic here is about casement park being redeveloped, the residents are against the current redevelopment so why would I want those residents to be pissed off if they were building a stadium say at the Maze site? I am only having a go at the residents because they are blocking the development of Casement. I keep hearing that the residents are not against development well that's great news could they please tell us what they are willing to accept. In my above post I have suggested a reduced capacity to try and move things along, is that going to be acceptable what are the residents expectations? If they will only permit a 20000 stadium then I'm afraid that's pretty much zero use to the GAA as they already have Clones. I'm sorry but to me a lot of the residents complaints stink of nimbyism and I wont change my mind on that until they start going public on what they will accept and what compromises they and the GAA can come to. The whole point of redevelopment is to have modern stadium with a capacity to accommodate the Ulster Final, any other big fixtures and concerts are a bonus. You can argue that the site isnt appropriate for such development then fair enough and if planning makes that decision then fair enough and if that happens then the GAA would likely sell and look elsewhere - Do you honestly think a brown field site next to a major arterial route in Belfast would just sit idle? By the way there is a huge Tesco Extra close to Sainsburys at Forrest side so a nearby ASDA is hardly going to scare away a rival supermarket
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
28k single tier, all covered, all seater. Simples!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on November 20, 2013, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
28k single tier, all covered, all seater. Simples!!

All covered would be ideal, I have raised this suggestion before only to be shot down by some!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 20, 2013, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
28k single tier, all covered, all seater. Simples!!

All covered would be ideal, I have raised this suggestion before only to be shot down by some!

Should be all covered in this day and age. Have you seen the state of the plans for Pairc ui chaoimh, 67 million for one new stand and a lick of paint on the remaining 3 sides - disgraceful

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/07/17/gaa-to-lodge-pairc-ui-chaoimh-plans-in-october/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 20, 2013, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
28k single tier, all covered, all seater. Simples!!

All covered would be ideal, I have raised this suggestion before only to be shot down by some!

Completely farcial from a design point of view not to have it fully covered. How can they argue that a roof adjacent to the Anderstown Road is in any way more obtrusive than the other 3 sides which border properties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 20, 2013, 01:42:51 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 01:29:11 PM
In my above post I have suggested a reduced capacity to try and move things along, is that going to be acceptable what are the residents expectations?
You posting that means fcuk all because that is not being put on the table by the GAA.

The residents are not worried about the GAA selling the site btw. What makes you think there would be opposition to Tesco anyway? There is no need for it with Sainsburys, Asda, Lidl and Iceland all within a few hundred yards of it. As Milltown suggests, social housing would be much more beneficial to the community.

My point is, first it was a sewage works, an abbatoir, traveller housing, now a 24h Tesco. It's like some bullshit scare tactics. Grow up.
.
Well planning permission has not been granted so yes a redesign with a reduced capacity may still very well happen. As great an idea as social housing is I think the GAA and local authorities would go for the easier option of a nice new supermarket and one more wont make any difference as we are already drowning in them.

Sewage works and abbatoir was a bit tongue in cheek but whatever floats your boat I dont know where you got traveler housing from though so stop making stuff up and the Tesco scenario is pretty real not some scare tactic . You have an opinion and I have an opinion that differ and thats what makes these blogs tick.

Grow up? you are better than that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2013, 02:18:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 20, 2013, 02:09:20 PM
Sorry, that was Armaghniac.

Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2013, 11:00:21 PM
QuoteHealy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Would this new super stadium be like a Christmas tree, used for 2 weeks of the year?

If the GAA are prevented from building in Belfast by residents, they should donate Casement to the Travellers Housing association.

Anyway, can you stop 'predicting' what might be there if the GAA sell Casement as it is totally pointless and that bridge will be crossed if we come to it.

Ok fair enough sorry one more thing what do you yourself want to happen at casement if anything?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on November 20, 2013, 02:32:05 PM
HS's tacklin some oul bird down there and is hoping for a £20'000 sweetener so he can blow it all on White Lightning and shellsuits.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on November 20, 2013, 02:40:17 PM
Sounds like the Irish version of the Queen Vic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 19, 2013, 11:33:48 PM
How does this work ?


The MP for West Belfast, Sinn Féin's Paul Maskey, said the development would create employment in the area and concerns about the road infrastructure could be resolved through dialogue with residents.
We should get Maskey to sort the York Street intersection too - 'dialogue' has to be a significantly cheaper way of solving infrastructure issues than fly-overs and under-passes.
The most inept politician i've ever seen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 05:24:29 PM
Just read this today, assume it has been posted somewhere earlier on this thread?

http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/

Anyway, it gives a better appreciation of the residents' position. I know I wouldn't be happy if I effectively lost the use of my back garden.

Would it not have been feasible to try and buy up the houses on one side of the ground and then have a bigger footprint, shift the stadium a bit to one side? From Google maps, there looks to be around 15 houses on the stadium side of the street to the west of the stadium - two houses are already on sale on Property Pal at £220k and £140k -buy up those houses for sale and offer others a good price - say £250k - total cost less than £4m (small in the scheme of the development). Obviously it could only work if people wanted to take the offer - there wouldn't be power (or desire i'm sure) to vest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on November 20, 2013, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 05:24:29 PM
Just read this today, assume it has been posted somewhere earlier on this thread?

http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/

Anyway, it gives a better appreciation of the residents' position. I know I wouldn't be happy if I effectively lost the use of my back garden.

Would it not have been feasible to try and buy up the houses on one side of the ground and then have a bigger footprint, shift the stadium a bit to one side? From Google maps, there looks to be around 15 houses on the stadium side of the street to the west of the stadium - two houses are already on sale on Property Pal at £220k and £140k -buy up those houses for sale and offer others a good price - say £250k - total cost less than £4m (small in the scheme of the development). Obviously it could only work if people wanted to take the offer - there wouldn't be power (or desire i'm sure) to vest.

If you start buying houses for that purpose you into a whole new ball game regards price and the time it takes. For reference see Anfield and Liverpool FC, its a complete balls up and that was even when they done it for large number of houses on the QT.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Quote from: Bingo on November 20, 2013, 05:27:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 05:24:29 PM
Just read this today, assume it has been posted somewhere earlier on this thread?

http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/

Anyway, it gives a better appreciation of the residents' position. I know I wouldn't be happy if I effectively lost the use of my back garden.

Would it not have been feasible to try and buy up the houses on one side of the ground and then have a bigger footprint, shift the stadium a bit to one side? From Google maps, there looks to be around 15 houses on the stadium side of the street to the west of the stadium - two houses are already on sale on Property Pal at £220k and £140k -buy up those houses for sale and offer others a good price - say £250k - total cost less than £4m (small in the scheme of the development). Obviously it could only work if people wanted to take the offer - there wouldn't be power (or desire i'm sure) to vest.

If you start buying houses for that purpose you into a whole new ball game regards price and the time it takes. For reference see Anfield and Liverpool FC, its a complete balls up and that was even when they done it for large number of houses on the QT.
Well i've already estimated where it is regarding price - £4m out of a £70m budget (appreciate I may be off the mark on this, but i've set out how I came to that). As for time, it would obviously be contingent on residents wanting to sell, but if I was offered 120% of my house's value in the current market, i'd bite their hands off. From a time perspective i'm sure you're right though - as it's public money, there's probably a limited window of opportunity to spend it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 20, 2013, 05:50:58 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 20, 2013, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
28k single tier, all covered, all seater. Simples!!

All covered would be ideal, I have raised this suggestion before only to be shot down by some!

Completely farcial from a design point of view not to have it fully covered. How can they argue that a roof adjacent to the Anderstown Road is in any way more obtrusive than the other 3 sides which border properties.

My understanding is that the A'town Rd roof had to be dropped because it failed the minimum daylight impact standards for the apartments on the other side of the A'town Rd.

I've said it many times before - the Casement site is simply too small.
That's why they haven't been able to build a roof, nor ever will, over the A'town Rd stand.

And that's why the uncovered A'town Rd stand has to be so deep - they're shoehorning people in there to get to the (already reduced) required 37k capacity.

ALL brand new stadiums built over the last 20 years have their deepest stands down the SIDES of the pitch, to maximise the number of seats with the best possible views (technically known as inside the Optimal Viewing Circle). But here in Casement, because the site is too small, we'll have the deepest stand BEHIND the goals. This will become an international joke amongst stadium architects.

That's why they're proposing closing the main arterial A'town Rd for several hours on match days, causing traffic chaos on matchdays. There's no room around the stadium to allow safe dispersal and congregation of fans, and only one entrance, so the only safe way to do is to roadblock the arterial A'town Rd route through S&W Belfast, causing traffic chaos including on the M1.

The constrained Casement site increases the construction build costs as vast underground bunkers will have to be created for carparking and ancillary facilities.

The constrained Casement site disallows the full range of Conference / Bar / Retail facilities to be built. And getting approval for concerts is by no means certain because of the close proximity of residents. This will have a massive negative impact on funding the long term maintenance of the stadium.

A far better outcome would be achieved by moving the project to a bigger site. Musgrave Park, 220m away is, in my opinion, ideal. It is big enough to allow for an unconstrained design, and safe dispersal of crowds via multiple exits without having to close the arterial routes.

If Belfast City Council wasn't obsessed by sectarianism, they'd have offered the use of the site a long time ago. It would be in the best interests of Belfast City & the GAA. Cork and Liverpool City Councils have done just that re PuC and Stanley Park.

A Musgrave site would generate vastly more income from Conferences, Functions, Bars & Concerts. Despite being only 220m from Casement, it is on the other side of the M1 and would be perceived as being in a neutral area. This automatically doubles the potential income from  non-GAA events.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 20, 2013, 05:50:58 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: The Worker on November 20, 2013, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
28k single tier, all covered, all seater. Simples!!

All covered would be ideal, I have raised this suggestion before only to be shot down by some!

Completely farcial from a design point of view not to have it fully covered. How can they argue that a roof adjacent to the Anderstown Road is in any way more obtrusive than the other 3 sides which border properties.

My understanding is that the A'town Rd roof had to be dropped because it failed the minimum daylight impact standards for the apartments on the other side of the A'town Rd.

I've said it many times before - the Casement site is simply too small.
That's why they haven't been able to build a roof, nor ever will, over the A'town Rd stand.

And that's why the uncovered A'town Rd stand has to be so deep - they're shoehorning people in there to get to the (already reduced) required 37k capacity.

ALL brand new stadiums built over the last 20 years have their deepest stands down the SIDES of the pitch, to maximise the number of seats with the best possible views (technically known as inside the Optimal Viewing Circle). But here in Casement, because the site is too small, we'll have the deepest stand BEHIND the goals. This will become an international joke amongst stadium architects.

That's why they're proposing closing the main arterial A'town Rd for several hours on match days, causing traffic chaos on matchdays. There's no room around the stadium to allow safe dispersal and congregation of fans, and only one entrance, so the only safe way to do is to roadblock the arterial A'town Rd route through S&W Belfast, causing traffic chaos including on the M1.

The constrained Casement site increases the construction build costs as vast underground bunkers will have to be created for carparking and ancillary facilities.

The constrained Casement site disallows the full range of Conference / Bar / Retail facilities to be built. And getting approval for concerts is by no means certain because of the close proximity of residents. This will have a massive negative impact on funding the long term maintenance of the stadium.

A far better outcome would be achieved by moving the project to a bigger site. Musgrave Park, 220m away is, in my opinion, ideal. It is big enough to allow for an unconstrained design, and safe dispersal of crowds via multiple exits without having to close the arterial routes.

If Belfast City Council wasn't obsessed by sectarianism, they'd have offered the use of the site a long time ago. It would be in the best interests of Belfast City & the GAA. Cork and Liverpool City Councils have done just that re PuC and Stanley Park.

A Musgrave site would generate vastly more income from Conferences, Functions, Bars & Concerts. Despite being only 220m from Casement, it is on the other side of the M1 and would be perceived as being in a neutral area. This automatically doubles the potential income from  non-GAA events.

Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?

A deep stand behind the goals can improve atmosphere (Borussia Dortmunds ground an example) but to not cover the ground entirely is madness.

I agree on Musgrave Park but surely that opens a can of worms as it's in South Belfast or is it still technically West?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 20, 2013, 06:01:52 PM
The artificial deadline to spend the money is something that should be highlighted.
If the money was ringfenced and legally protected, there'd be less aof a scramble to try and ram this second-rate Casement solution through.

The GAA would be better to pause, draw breath, and think about how to achieve the best possible solution to serve Ulster fans for the next 100 years. If they had a bigger site, and the budget didn't stretch to doing the near-standard modern fully covered bowl, then the main side stands could be built to allow it to be fully completed in future.

With Casement, we'll never be able to expand and do the job right without shelling out a fortune to buy at least one side's worth of houses.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 20, 2013, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM

Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?

A deep stand behind the goals can improve atmosphere (Borussia Dortmunds ground an example) but to not cover the ground entirely is madness.

I agree on Musgrave Park but surely that opens a can of worms as it's in South Belfast or is it still technically West?


The A'town Stand roof would have to be much higher than the others becasue it is (embarassingly) the deepest stand.
It is the deepest stand becaue that's the only way that the seated capacity can be pushed up to 37k (as opposed to the 40k that was tendered for).

Below is a link that illustrates just how high the A'town Rd stand roof would had to have been.

See post 1 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744, published at a Community Consultation Event held in November 2012.

--

In Belfast's sectarian micro-geography, Musgrave Park would be technically South rather than West, but at only 250 metres away, does it matter?
The greater commercial opportunites would create far more job opportunities for the people of West Belfast.
Transport links (esp to rail) are better as well.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 20, 2013, 06:28:29 PM
One more bit of sense before I leave my desk.

There's nothing more miserable than sitting in the rain.
Especially if you've paid a decent amount to sit in a joke of a brand new £75 Million Irish stadium that is only 3/4 roofed.

If, God forbid, we do end up with thousands having to be accommodated in the uncovered A'town Rd stand, surely it would be better for the poor drenched souls to be allowed to *stand* rather than sit.

Additionally, I think the GAA & architects should look at these RAIL SEATS that

1. allow safe standing
2. allow more fans to be accommodated in the same space.

See this great site for technical details:

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

For every 40 seated fans, you can get 72 safely standing fans instead!!!!!!!!!

If both the stands behind the goals had these RAIL SEATS, then it might be possible that the 37k capacity could be met by having a shallower A'town rd stand, that could just allow some form of ROOF to be built over it.

This has got to be worth examining.
If anybody has contacts / influence over the GAA project team or architects, then please forward this to them.

The GAA shouldn't get hung up about having an all seated capacity, when a partially standing capacity could deliver a roof over fans' heads instead.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on November 20, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
Is not a big deal but Sinn Fein should surely look at getting someone else other than Paul Maskey to speak on this matter. I know he is the local MP but his public utterances are mind boggling at times and are doing him no favours.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2013, 08:21:19 PM
Hardstation, has Pat Sheehan, West Belfast MLA (and clubman of mine) not got involved? Pat played hurling and football (when free) for the club and has a big interest in all things GAA.

I haven't asked him, may do next time I see him
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 09:44:24 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 20, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
Is not a big deal but Sinn Fein should surely look at getting someone else other than Paul Maskey to speak on this matter. I know he is the local MP but his public utterances are mind boggling at times and are doing him no favours.
And every other matter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 09:48:49 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?
I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 09:48:49 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?
I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.

Yeah your probably right, as they are most likely south facing along the Andytown road.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 20, 2013, 06:28:29 PM
Additionally, I think the GAA & architects should look at these RAIL SEATS that

1. allow safe standing
2. allow more fans to be accommodated in the same space.

See this great site for technical details:

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

For every 40 seated fans, you can get 72 safely standing fans instead!!!!!!!!!

If both the stands behind the goals had these RAIL SEATS, then it might be possible that the 37k capacity could be met by having a shallower A'town rd stand, that could just allow some form of ROOF to be built over it.

This has got to be worth examining.
If anybody has contacts / influence over the GAA project team or architects, then please forward this to them.

The GAA shouldn't get hung up about having an all seated capacity, when a partially standing capacity could deliver a roof over fans' heads instead.
I like the idea of that - looks good.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: hardstation on November 20, 2013, 08:03:14 AM
Quote from: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 07:41:21 AM
Maze didn't happen, m5 project didn't happen, narrow water bridge didn't happen all a blaming match when the project falls through. The eyes of the northern gaa are watching this and if it falls then we can make our own minds up as to who is to blame.
Coming from a man who said "Meh, it's only internet stuff" when asked in person about posts on this thread. Shows you really don't give a fcuk. For some people, rrhf, it is not "only internet stuff". It will have a huge bearing on the rest of their lives. 24h a day, 7 days a week.
Quote from: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 06:26:12 AM
Is road infrastructure the job of the locals.
I dont quite understand whataboutery?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 11:13:08 PM
Quotation?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 20, 2013, 11:17:35 PM
Produce quotation
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2013, 11:18:20 PM
It is notable that all the Casement development fanboys don't live in its shadow in Andytown and can hop in their cars and leave after a match.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 21, 2013, 06:00:14 AM
And to a certain extent it is. Why produce two arguments when one can do?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 21, 2013, 07:57:43 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 09:48:49 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?
I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.

Yeah your probably right, as they are most likely south facing along the Andytown road.

It's the height that any A'town Rd stand would have to be (because it is laughably deeper than the side stands).

This image Illustrates:

(https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 21, 2013, 08:23:08 AM
Quote from: snatter on November 21, 2013, 07:57:43 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 09:48:49 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?
I don't know the details on this case, but i'd assume the position and movement of the sun during the day would impact houses on some ends of the ground more than others.

Yeah your probably right, as they are most likely south facing along the Andytown road.

It's the height that any A'town Rd stand would have to be (because it is laughably deeper than the side stands).

This image Illustrates:

(https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg)

Any idea what the capacity would be if the A'town road stand was to remain the same as the other three?

My guess would be somehwere around the 32k mark?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2013, 10:08:01 AM
QuoteAnyway, it gives a better appreciation of the residents' position. I know I wouldn't be happy if I effectively lost the use of my back garden.

Would it not have been feasible to try and buy up the houses on one side of the ground and then have a bigger footprint, shift the stadium a bit to one side? From Google maps, there looks to be around 15 houses on the stadium side of the street to the west of the stadium - two houses are already on sale on Property Pal at £220k and £140k -buy up those houses for sale and offer others a good price - say £250k - total cost less than £4m (small in the scheme of the development). Obviously it could only work if people wanted to take the offer - there wouldn't be power (or desire i'm sure) to vest.

In another European country, or even in America, the City would vest these houses, it is not as if vast areas of Belfast have not been vested in the past. But in Ireland a stadia to be used by large numbers of the public seem to be deemed a private good.

However, Snatter has a point, the present location is mainly down to sectarianism.

You could buy the houses, halve the gardens and probably biuld new houses there and sell them to people happy enough with a short garden. The cost would not be that great.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 21, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
Jeez lads, alot of balls getting talked on this thread. I take it everyone is of a architectural / building control / town planner background?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 21, 2013, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 20, 2013, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: orangeman on November 19, 2013, 11:33:48 PM
How does this work ?


The MP for West Belfast, Sinn Féin's Paul Maskey, said the development would create employment in the area and concerns about the road infrastructure could be resolved through dialogue with residents.
We should get Maskey to sort the York Street intersection too - 'dialogue' has to be a significantly cheaper way of solving infrastructure issues than fly-overs and under-passes.
The most inept politician i've ever seen.
Any time I hear Paul Maskey I cringe, he can't even speak, his diction is awful. Time the Shinners invested in elocution lessons.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 21, 2013, 01:09:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 21, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
Jeez lads, alot of balls getting talked on this thread. I take it everyone is of a architectural / building control / town planner background?

what parts of the debate are you struggling to understand?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 21, 2013, 01:35:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2013, 10:08:01 AM
In another European country, or even in America, the City would vest these houses, it is not as if vast areas of Belfast have not been vested in the past. But in Ireland a stadia to be used by large numbers of the public seem to be deemed a private good.

However, Snatter has a point, the present location is mainly down to sectarianism.

You could buy the houses, halve the gardens and probably biuld new houses there and sell them to people happy enough with a short garden. The cost would not be that great.

No, I do not think that the present Casement site is down to sectarianism. I don't know where you got that from.

Casement was chosen because the GAA Ulster Council were advised by (an unknown & unpublished) consultancy report in 2010 that said Casement could accommodate a 40k fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't and never could - I do wish the original report was published, so all GAA members can see the basis for choosing a site that, whilst GAA-owned, was always too small and constrained.

--

RE Musgrave - I was making the obvious point that, whilst only a few hundred metres across the motorway, it is widely perceived as a neutral area. Consequently, it's more likely to attract the custom of Unionists for non-GAA events, eg concerts & conferences. With Unionists making up just short of 50% of the Grt Belfast population, that equates to more income. More income = less financial maintence burden in future.

--

RE Belfast City Council:  it is my view is that it is now clear that there are massive problems with ever getting the originally tendered 40k all seated & covered stadium on the Casement site.

That has been the case since
1. the capacity was dropped from the tendered 40k to 37k
2. the A'town Rd stand roof was removed, again to appease residents.
3. The official Northern Ireland Environment Agency report where their principal landscape architect slated the development, describing it as "overbearing" and not in keeping with its surroundings. See http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/
4. The improbability of the GAA being allowed to block main arterial routes for hours on event days.

The quality of what is now proposed falls well short of the project's original aims.

In such circumstances, I'd have expected Belfast City Council to have been proactive, and to jointly explore alternative locations with the GAA project team, in order that the originally planned top quality 40k fully covered stadium could be built. And built in Belfast. I'd have expected BCC to do this in recognition of the economic benefits of hosting a top class 40k stadium.

Approximately 10 months ago, BCC did have some "non-job" put out a press release about whether there was anything that BCC could do to facilitate or enhance the stadium developments at Windsor, Ravenhill & Casement. Reading the detail of the BCC initiative, it became clear that the main focus was to use the site of BCC's Olympia leisure centre to build a sports village alongside Windsor Park, enhancing and facilitating the Windsor redevelopment.

Now that the odds are stacked against Casement, why aren't BCC proactively looking at the feasability of granting Musgrave (or the Boucher Rd playing fields, or anywhere else) for the orignal 40k stadium proposed. Why aren't they engaging with the GAA to see how the best possible stadium & associated commercial facilities could be developed to give the best economic lift to Belfast?
Why aren't they examing how best they could use their power and influence to facilitate an alternative site?

That's what Cork adn Liverpool City Councils did.
Can any BCC staffers or councillors tell us why BCC aren't doing the same?

BCC need to step up to the mark and facilitate a much needed plan B. If they can use council property to facilitate the Windsor Park soccer development, then there's no reason they can't do the same for the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on November 21, 2013, 01:55:23 PM
http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/

The Environment Agency report was unequivocal in its view of the visual impact the new stadium will have on the Andersonstown area.

"We advise that a building of the scale proposed should have sufficient open space to its exterior to allow for associated infrastructure, car parking, transport links, etc and to provide a setting and adequate separation between the proposal and adjacent development,"

"The existing site is, unfortunately, constrained on all sides and, in our opinion, it is impossible to meet the requirements of a fit-for-purpose modern stadium that visually integrates with the existing environment."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 21, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 21, 2013, 01:09:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 21, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
Jeez lads, alot of balls getting talked on this thread. I take it everyone is of a architectural / building control / town planner background?

what parts of the debate are you struggling to understand?

What I do understand , its not being built at the bottom of anyones garden on this forum.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 21, 2013, 02:21:39 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 21, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 21, 2013, 01:09:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 21, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
Jeez lads, alot of balls getting talked on this thread. I take it everyone is of a architectural / building control / town planner background?

what parts of the debate are you struggling to understand?

What I do understand , its not being built at the bottom of anyones garden on this forum.

If you read through Snatters comments you'll see that is far from the main issue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 24, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
Getting Casement park up to scratch needs to be Antrim GAAs greatest priority.  This will take Antrim football and hurling to a new level.  Would be great to see it too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 24, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
Getting Casement park up to scratch needs to be Antrim GAAs greatest priority.  This will take Antrim football and hurling to a new level.  Would be great to see it too.
;D I have read some bollocks in my time on this board...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2013, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 24, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
Getting Casement park up to scratch needs to be Antrim GAAs greatest priority.  This will take Antrim football and hurling to a new level.  Would be great to see it too.
;D I have read some bollocks in my time on this board...

Nearly as bad as someone saying Cuchullains will be beating the Gaels this year, some bollocks....... ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2013, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2013, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 24, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
Getting Casement park up to scratch needs to be Antrim GAAs greatest priority.  This will take Antrim football and hurling to a new level.  Would be great to see it too.
;D I have read some bollocks in my time on this board...

Nearly as bad as someone saying Cuchullains will be beating the Gaels this year, some bollocks....... ;)
A 2 point defeat! Hardly in the same league  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2013, 11:20:36 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2013, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2013, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 24, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
Getting Casement park up to scratch needs to be Antrim GAAs greatest priority.  This will take Antrim football and hurling to a new level.  Would be great to see it too.
;D I have read some bollocks in my time on this board...

Nearly as bad as someone saying Cuchullains will be beating the Gaels this year, some bollocks....... ;)
A 2 point defeat! Hardly in the same league  ;D

Still bollocks though, they played Antrim last week and took a hammering, I made the mistake of playing a team well above our station in the run up to semi and final, if I ever had the chance again I wouldn't bother
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on December 02, 2013, 01:22:10 AM
Realism has crept in.

Thankfully.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on December 02, 2013, 01:45:20 AM

Any expansion on that Drici?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on December 02, 2013, 09:56:42 AM
What's the latest on this project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: jftj on December 04, 2013, 05:51:11 AM
spoke to a fella tonite who would be well in the know who told me that our prod brethren will be doing most of the building.and jesus wept.sashes in the conrete[hjs words]so muchfor regeneration of the  local area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 04, 2013, 09:30:19 AM
Quote from: jftj on December 04, 2013, 05:51:11 AM
spoke to a fella tonite who would be well in the know who told me that our prod brethren will be doing most of the building.and jesus wept.sashes in the conrete[hjs words]so muchfor regeneration of the  local area.

They have to tender so it isn't just a matter of handing the contract to the closest firm to Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2013, 10:04:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 04, 2013, 09:56:23 AM
Quote from: jftj on December 04, 2013, 05:51:11 AM
spoke to a fella tonite who would be well in the know who told me that our prod brethren will be doing most of the building.and jesus wept.sashes in the conrete[hjs words]so muchfor regeneration of the  local area.
I believe there are a number of holes in the GAA's job creation figures. However, 'Prod brethren' getting a building contract in the project is not one of them. That's naked sectarianism.

Shorts and Harlands are really busy at the minute so there won't be too many engineers coming over from the East ;)

Who is the main contractor? has it not already been sorted?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 04, 2013, 10:52:03 AM
This all is getting tedious, if the fine upstanding GAA supporters of West Belfast don't want this stadium then take it and the investment to somwhere that does. Davitt Park in Lurgan or some where similar within easy distance to the M1.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on December 04, 2013, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 04, 2013, 09:56:23 AM
Quote from: jftj on December 04, 2013, 05:51:11 AM
spoke to a fella tonite who would be well in the know who told me that our prod brethren will be doing most of the building.and jesus wept.sashes in the conrete[hjs words]so muchfor regeneration of the  local area.
I believe there are a number of holes in the GAA's job creation figures. However, 'Prod brethren' getting a building contract in the project is not one of them. That's naked sectarianism.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on December 04, 2013, 01:14:21 PM
It should be redistributed equally among the 6 county grounds in the north and Ulster finals should be kept in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 04, 2013, 03:56:52 PM
They changed their minds before about how this money should be spent. Have ye never heard of a politician changing their minds?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on December 04, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
When was work due to actually due to start on this project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2013, 04:16:16 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 04, 2013, 04:11:28 PM
When was work due to actually start on this project?

Jillember
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2013, 04:19:05 PM
QuoteIt should be redistributed equally among the 6 county grounds in the north and Ulster finals should be kept in Clones.

Great idea.

QuoteJillember

Jill Ember? I knew her at Queen's, cracking girl with a few vodkas on her.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2013, 04:21:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2013, 04:19:05 PM
QuoteIt should be redistributed equally among the 6 county grounds in the north and Ulster finals should be kept in Clones.

Great idea.

QuoteJillember

Jill Ember? I knew her at Queen's, cracking girl with a few vodkas on her.

She fan a few flames at queens?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 04, 2013, 10:14:41 PM
At least 2-3 more Ulster Finals in Clones at this rate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 04, 2013, 11:50:50 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2013, 10:14:41 PM
At least 2-3 more Ulster Finals in Clones at this rate.

woo hoo... and long may it continue

#keepfinalsinclones

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on December 19, 2013, 09:10:14 AM
Planning approval expected in an announcement from the minister later today. Work to begin early in the new year. It all looks like it is going to go ahead as planned.

Typical NI ministerial ploy - make a potentially controversial announcement on the cusp of a two week break and when something else (Haas) is dominating the Local News!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 09:28:42 AM
Quote from: CD on December 19, 2013, 09:10:14 AM
Planning approval expected in an announcement from the minister later today. Work to begin early in the new year. It all looks like it is going to go ahead as planned.

Typical NI ministerial ploy - make a potentially controversial announcement on the cusp of a two week break and when something else (Haas) is dominating the Local News!

Heard this news last week, I'm sure Hardstation will give us the next attempt by the the residents to throw a spanner in the works of the Casement development, I've no real view on it other than I can see arguments for both sides and that, in my view the capacity is too much (be great for finals) and the initial hassle once the building commences will be a a issue for the whole of the Andersonstown road users. The other side is it will generate a lot of work at the start (can't be a bad thing) and hopefully bring a lot of big games/events to West Belfast.

Have been a Ravenhill and fair play to them, they have used the money wisely and the ground is nearly complete.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 10:10:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2013, 09:53:08 AM
No idea although I imagine it'll not stop there. European Court of Human Rights perhaps.

Another issue may be arising here too. There is becoming an increasing concern among GAA clubs in Antrim that due to the balls up at Dunsilly, the already broke clubs are going to be levied to bail the county out of it. Questions are arising as to why Casement Park may be moving away from the possession of Antrim GAA at a cost of £0.00 while the clubs take the hit for other failures which they didn't cause.

Yeah it has been a bit of a ongoing problem at the minute, couldn't make the AGM this year but I'm sure the members of most clubs have had the membership raised possibly
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 19, 2013, 10:21:00 AM
Richard Haas is coming back next year to sort this out after he has the fleg men sorted.  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on December 19, 2013, 10:24:42 AM
Hope it doesn't go to European Courts! It would be nice if some form of compromise could be reached that satisfied the residents although that looks unlikely at this point.

I think it will be a great asset to GAA in Antrim and Ulster in the future. The current Casement badly needs an overhaul, Ulster needs a top stadium and Belfast needs a focus for its GAA.

Milltown compared it to Ravenhill and I live really close to it. The impact on local community there has been negligible. Couple of busy hours around game time but the police stop match traffic from blocking resident traffic and punters have the decency to park and walk. There is ample parking on the Boucher Rd to keep matchday traffic away from Andytown altogether. The new stands went up largely unnoticed and it actually has improved the aesthetics of the area.

Local chippies, pubs and shops make an absolute killing as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/gaelic-games/25445928
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on December 19, 2013, 10:40:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2013, 10:27:52 AM
Let's not forget that Ravenhill's capacity will only be 18,000 when completed.

I'm sure the Andytown residents would accept that at Casement Park. ;D

Good point, well made! That means local pubs and shops will take twice as much on match days!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 19, 2013, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2013, 11:47:08 AM
Can't wait to see the Aggies & Davitts playing in the Junior championship there.

all ticket?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71844000/gif/_71844485_casement.gif)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 19, 2013, 01:56:35 PM
Not a chipper van in sight nor a snooker table, that'll not wash with big John and the locals...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 02:14:31 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71844000/gif/_71844485_casement.gif)

What's written on those posters?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2013, 02:27:21 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!

It should be fairly accurate, the snow will blow right into the back of the stand.

I note they number the blocks. Why not ABCDEFGH?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
"FOXYS - CUT & BLOW DRY SPECIAL - £10.00"

Always someone with a pram ffs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on December 19, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)

I loved the graphics of the snow falling on the shivering wretches on the uncovered A'town Rd stand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 19, 2013, 03:47:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
"FOXYS - CUT & BLOW DRY SPECIAL - £10.00"

Always someone with a pram ffs

That's the granny obviously  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on December 19, 2013, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 02:14:31 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71844000/gif/_71844485_casement.gif)

What's written on those posters?

(http://irishjaunt.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/father-ted-careful-now.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: southdown on December 19, 2013, 04:17:07 PM
Casement looks fantastic in that new video.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on December 19, 2013, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!

Bit of artistic license taken or is it really gonna look that good?  :D

Looks amazing - roll on 2016
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 19, 2013, 04:32:52 PM
I take it that soccer and rugby will play their big matches here  as well ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 19, 2013, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)

A far cry from togging out along the hedge.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on December 19, 2013, 06:45:21 PM
Just saw the Casement concerned fishwives group on tv there. ;D "You don't live here Ryan Feeney! I'd sooner vote for the DUP than any of yous ones!" was the more articulate of their protestations! ;D





Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 07:06:42 PM
Quote from: CD on December 19, 2013, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!

Bit of artistic license taken or is it really gonna look that good?  :D

Looks amazing - roll on 2016

Had to laugh, they had all these punters in the streets hands raised cheering and looking happy!!! Obviously they weren't Antrim supporters (due to the numbers) and what was the shite with people wearing T shirts ffs???  Maybe gets 2 or 3 days of sun if they are lucky. And no fat cnuts either, strange that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on December 19, 2013, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2013, 02:27:21 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!

It should be fairly accurate, the snow will blow right into the back of the stand.
I note they number the blocks. Why not ABCDEFGH?

Didn't want a 'H Block.' Thought it would stall the project indefinitely and make the whole thing a political football.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 19, 2013, 07:30:31 PM
Very good
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 19, 2013, 08:10:22 PM
The flythrough would be more realistic with less people in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on December 19, 2013, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2013, 07:06:42 PM
Quote from: CD on December 19, 2013, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!

Bit of artistic license taken or is it really gonna look that good?  :D

Looks amazing - roll on 2016

Had to laugh, they had all these punters in the streets hands raised cheering and looking happy!!! Obviously they weren't Antrim supporters (due to the numbers) and what was the shite with people wearing T shirts ffs???  Maybe gets 2 or 3 days of sun if they are lucky. And no fat cnuts either, strange that

The doll with the red hair in the red top has some hoop.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Line Ball on December 20, 2013, 12:16:13 AM
Quote from: rrhf on December 19, 2013, 01:48:14 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 19, 2013, 11:35:59 AM
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)
Now thats what I call a new stadium flythrough!! well done Ziggy graphics are amazing!

Who exactly put this presentation together?  If the Antrim County Board approved it, then they will be the first county in Ireland to play without a 'Big Square.'  Antrim always have to be diffferent.

Seriously, poor show if this so called professional presentation was approved with this oversight very evident.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 20, 2013, 03:35:24 AM
Well done to all in ulster  gaa who believed this could really happen when so many of us doubted-  this will be recognised in time  by Antrim gaa winning ulster titles.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 20, 2013, 06:24:18 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
"FOXYS - CUT & BLOW DRY SPECIAL - £10.00"

Did they say how long this deal is on for?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 20, 2013, 08:39:15 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 20, 2013, 07:16:52 AM
Quote from: rrhf on January 01, 1970, 01:08:44 AM
Well done to all in ulster  gaa who believed this could really happen when somosty of us doubted-  this will be recognised in time  by Antrim gaa winning ulster titles.
;D
Put the glue away.
The time of posting would suggest he is in foreign climes or else poleaxed. The post itself suggests poleaxed!

How on earth does any think a vanity project that will have most turnstiles gathering dust will benefit Antrim GAA. Still it will give the Ulster chaps another black tie dinner and photo op. A lot of these high profile GAA men (some not even from Antrim) are imo using this as a political football to further their ambitions within the GAA hierarchy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 20, 2013, 08:42:56 AM
What else will it be used for?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on December 20, 2013, 09:09:06 AM
The bar is ghastly.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 20, 2013, 09:22:17 AM
Yes, it should have an old bicycle nailed to the ceiling and a pointy sign saying 'Donegal 125km'.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
Will Casement be the biggest stadium in Ireland outside of Croke and Aviva ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on December 20, 2013, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71844000/gif/_71844485_casement.gif)

why is that cub in the hoodie not at school?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 10:08:04 AM
Quote from: sheamy on December 20, 2013, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71844000/gif/_71844485_casement.gif)

why is that cub in the hoodie not at school?

It's West Belfast, that's why. He'll grow up to be a very popular politician
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on December 20, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
Will Casement be the biggest stadium in Ireland outside of Croke and Aviva ?

Semple, Limerick, Killarney are all bigger but they are more grounds than stadiums if you could differentiate between a stadia and ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: southdown on December 20, 2013, 10:40:50 AM
What's the difference between a ground and a stadium?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on December 20, 2013, 10:44:13 AM
For ground and stadium comparison ,think chapel and cathedral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 20, 2013, 10:47:13 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on December 20, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
Will Casement be the biggest stadium in Ireland outside of Croke and Aviva ?

Semple, Limerick, Killarney are all bigger but they are more grounds than stadiums if you could differentiate between a stadia and ground.

I hear you in this context stadium being internationally recognised sporting venue and ground being 19th century design constructed in 21st century for an extortianate rate must be grey and dreary obviously no protection from the elements and constructed in such a death trap way that it will need huge areas shut down at the next health and safety review optionial extras such as traditional style pillars and flloodlights placed to obstruct viewing, toilet and burger van facilities restricted for the prawn sandwich munching old trafford types.
On a serious note I think rail terracing at the open end would be an excellent idea and might allow a few rows to be knocked off the side stands to reduce the height for the residents without compromising capacity
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 20, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on December 20, 2013, 10:44:13 AM
For ground and stadium comparison ,think chapel and cathedral.

Catholics use Chapels wrong. It's a Church. A chapel is a church within another building,  for instance a hospital.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Heard if the residents want to take it to the European courts they will have to stump up 30 grand
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 20, 2013, 11:16:18 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 20, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
Will there be a chapel in the new stadium?

In the disabled section.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 20, 2013, 11:19:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Heard if the residents want to take it to the European courts they will have to stump up 30 grand
What if someone who is 104, has no dough and wants to bring a case to ECHR, they have to pay 30 grand?
Jeez........

That's what I heard, maybe someone can say different, I suppose it depends on the type of hearing you are going for
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2013, 11:25:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 20, 2013, 11:19:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Heard if the residents want to take it to the European courts they will have to stump up 30 grand
What if someone who is 104, has no dough and wants to bring a case to ECHR, they have to pay 30 grand?
Jeez........

That's what I heard, maybe someone can say different, I suppose it depends on the type of hearing you are going for
Your hearing couldn't be great if you are 104.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 20, 2013, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Heard if the residents want to take it to the European courts they will have to stump up 30 grand

Group action divided by 300 residents £100 each.


Handy enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:59:02 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 20, 2013, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Heard if the residents want to take it to the European courts they will have to stump up 30 grand

Group action divided by 300 residents £100 each.


Handy enough.

Grand if you can afford to lose 100 notes these days? Lawyers free?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 20, 2013, 12:12:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:59:02 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 20, 2013, 11:34:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 11:10:36 AM
Heard if the residents want to take it to the European courts they will have to stump up 30 grand

Group action divided by 300 residents £100 each.


Handy enough.

Grand if you can afford to lose 100 notes these days? Lawyers free?

No win no fee ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 20, 2013, 04:14:57 PM
This whole idea of having premium levels and VIP areas to my mind is far removed from the ethos of the GAA. I don't mind the smallish section you get in Semple, Armagh, Omagh etc. But this introduces division based on money and influence. I would see through it if Clubs were to get a sahre of such tickets for their use but that won't happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 20, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2013, 04:14:57 PM
This whole idea of having premium levels and VIP areas to my mind is far removed from the ethos of the GAA. I don't mind the smallish section you get in Semple, Armagh, Omagh etc. But this introduces division based on money and influence. I would see through it if Clubs were to get a sahre of such tickets for their use but that won't happen.

The reason for the height is to accommodate the premium levels. Funny how they never mentioned that!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on December 20, 2013, 05:58:09 PM
I would say there will be some rogues "6ft 4 & 20 stone" in the premium boxes
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on December 20, 2013, 06:14:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
Will Casement be the biggest stadium in Ireland outside of Croke and Aviva ?


The redeveloped Pairce Ui Chaoimh will be a 50,000 all seater stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 20, 2013, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 20, 2013, 06:14:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
Will Casement be the biggest stadium in Ireland outside of Croke and Aviva ?


The redeveloped Pairce Ui Chaoimh will be a 50,000 all seater stadium.

The Gaelic grounds in Limerick hold 50k also.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on December 20, 2013, 06:31:58 PM
True, was referring to it being all seater Just googled and I was wrong terrace behind the goals in cork
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 20, 2013, 06:37:12 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 20, 2013, 06:14:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
Will Casement be the biggest stadium in Ireland outside of Croke and Aviva ?


The redeveloped Pairce Ui Chaoimh will be a 60,000 all seater stadium.

wouldn't be so sure of that

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/cork-gaa-confident-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh-project-will-get-go-ahead-1.1531060
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on December 20, 2013, 07:57:16 PM
Yep, I saw that when I looked it up
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 21, 2013, 09:35:49 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 21, 2013, 09:27:52 AM
Looks like a Derry takeover. Demented weirdo.

It will be finished in 2059 if that is the case then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Estimator on December 21, 2013, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 21, 2013, 01:25:29 AM
I see they have appointed a contractor for the stadium.

It's beginning to fall into place.....

Ryan Feeney, Faughanvale, Co. Derry
Stephen McGeehan, Ballinderry, Co. Tyrone

Mark H Durkan, Derry City, Co. Derry

Heron Bros, Ballinascreen, Co. Derry

Hmmm
Fishing?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 21, 2013, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2013, 04:14:57 PM
This whole idea of having premium levels and VIP areas to my mind is far removed from the ethos of the GAA. I don't mind the smallish section you get in Semple, Armagh, Omagh etc. But this introduces division based on money and influence. I would see through it if Clubs were to get a sahre of such tickets for their use but that won't happen.

The rugby and soccer boys have plenty of money. They'll bring a lot of corporate money.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on December 21, 2013, 11:22:21 AM
Surely its time for the concerned residents to occupy Casement Park a la Twaddell camp?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 21, 2013, 11:59:17 AM
There an obvious punch line there T Fearon. People talking about soccer games. Which particular soccer games do they envisage being played at Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2013, 12:11:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 21, 2013, 11:59:17 AM
There an obvious punch line there T Fearon. People talking about soccer games. Which particular soccer games do they envisage being played at Casement?
Linfield v Glasgow Rangers ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 21, 2013, 12:27:13 PM
I see from their full page spread in the IN rounders will be a feature at the new Casement. Can't wait. Hoping for a packed house.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 22, 2013, 12:27:04 AM
Is the thinking that in 10 or 15 years time that there will be one big love in and that all sides of the community will think nothing of going to some fancy named sports stadium where soccer, rugger, GAA, concerts etc etc will be held ?


We can't even get the county managers to agree on the make up of Mc Kenna cup squads FFS !
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 22, 2013, 12:52:19 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2013, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 22, 2013, 12:27:04 AM
Is the thinking that in 10 or 15 years time that there will be one big love in and that all sides of the community will think nothing of going to some fancy named sports stadium where soccer, rugger, GAA, concerts etc etc will be held ?


We can't even get the county managers to agree on the make up of Mc Kenna cup squads FFS !
In a way, yes. What seems to have happened is........We couldn't agree on the 'national stadium' at Long Kesh so......we'll give the Rugby boys the money they need to do up Ravenhill, give the Soccer boys the money they need to do up Windsor and dump a half arsed 'national stadium' on the GAA in the middle of Andytown. A stadium that is never going to be sustainable through GAA games alone, so unless they run with concerts and anything else that we had envisaged at the Long Kesh stadium, it'll go under.

This stadium will be built for concerts, not GAA games.

It is not being built solely for GAA. Anyone who thinks that is delusional. Anyone who peddles that "story" is telling lies.

A £76m spend on GAA is a nonsense.

Rugby, soccer, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, U2, will be playing in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2013, 01:11:23 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 22, 2013, 12:27:04 AM
Is the thinking that in 10 or 15 years time that there will be one big love in and that all sides of the community will think nothing of going to some fancy named sports stadium where soccer, rugger, GAA, concerts etc etc will be held ?


We can't even get the county managers to agree on the make up of Mc Kenna cup squads FFS !

Extremists like Mickey Harte and Jim Allister will never agree.

QuoteIt will have to include all of those for it to be sustainable. Only once in the year can GAA games fill it and even that is up for debate - that is the Ulster Football Final.

Combinations of Down/Armagh/Tyrone in the final with a different combination will do the trick. Derry don't bring a crowd, it is a long way from Donegal, and Cavan/Monaghan/Fermanagh are neither nearby nor populous. Antrim is nearby, but hardly likely to play in a final. It isn't much needed for an AI quarter final, a proposed Athlone stadium in another thread would do great business for qualifiers, but not one in Belfast.

A "national" stadium in Andytown seems a bit novel, but sure most people thereabouts regard themselves as  "Northern" Irish anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 22, 2013, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 22, 2013, 01:23:44 AM
It is as simple as this. If this concert arena begins to run at a loss, it is us members of the association who are going to be left to foot the bill.

I have no issue putting it out there now, my club cannot afford it.

This is going to crucify us.


Take your medicine. Ulster council lads who we put forward have it all sorted. I trust them to do the right thing here and look after us.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
There's a lot of backward thinking in here. The gaa is being given a fortune to build a 21st century stadium and would be crazy not to take it. Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games. I'm not sure about the location but I can see the thinking of putting it in the second largest city in the country. Parking etc will be an issue but hopefully plans can be put in place to make it run smoothly. I do have doubts on the size as well and maybe 30,000 would be enough but then I can see a case of making it big enough to hold ulster finals.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players. It doesn't have to be packed either to host games in it. I've seen great atmosphere's in croke park for All Ireland Junior and Intermediate finals with a few thousand in it.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights. If got the right combination of games and counties there's no reason it couldn't work - for god sake they were able to attract nearly 20,000 for a friendly between Donegal and Ulster last year. Depending on the draw a double header of first round games could go there including the Antrim one. Both ulster semi's no doubt will go to it and obviously the final. They would need to push for a quarter final as well. If they got the right facilities and access to the ground it really could be built into a great day out like Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 22, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
I couldn't agree more. I'm also at a loss as to why concerts are such a big deal. If the residents have any sense they should seize the opportunity to make a few quid selling bottles of water bars of chocolate etc from the front of their houses. They could clean up
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 22, 2013, 12:13:52 PM
There'll be enough big days provided by soccer, rugby, GAA and the government to make it sustainable.

The residents will get a few quid.


Everybody happy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 22, 2013, 12:16:23 PM
Looks like it for ye boys its all about the money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 22, 2013, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 22, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
I couldn't agree more. I'm also at a loss as to why concerts are such a big deal. If the residents have any sense they should seize the opportunity to make a few quid selling bottles of water bars of chocolate etc from the front of their houses. They could clean up

WKD, glue and pastie baps.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 22, 2013, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 22, 2013, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 22, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
I couldn't agree more. I'm also at a loss as to why concerts are such a big deal. If the residents have any sense they should seize the opportunity to make a few quid selling bottles of water bars of chocolate etc from the front of their houses. They could clean up

WKD, glue and pastie baps.
Aye but most people going will be culchies. Anything to do with twin-cams, diffing or Garth Brooks will do the trick.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 22, 2013, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2013, 04:14:57 PM
This whole idea of having premium levels and VIP areas to my mind is far removed from the ethos of the GAA. I don't mind the smallish section you get in Semple, Armagh, Omagh etc. But this introduces division based on money and influence. I would see through it if Clubs were to get a sahre of such tickets for their use but that won't happen.

Would you prefer if Croke Park had never been redeveloped then?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 22, 2013, 07:12:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 22, 2013, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 22, 2013, 01:11:48 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 22, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
I couldn't agree more. I'm also at a loss as to why concerts are such a big deal. If the residents have any sense they should seize the opportunity to make a few quid selling bottles of water bars of chocolate etc from the front of their houses. They could clean up

WKD, glue and pastie baps.
Aye but most people going will be culchies. Anything to do with twin-cams, diffing or Garth Brooks will do the trick.

Don't put the rest of us in with the Garth Brooks-loving Tyronies!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 22, 2013, 09:37:32 PM
Anybody who wen to the foo fighters on the boucher road would know casement park is totally unsuitable for concerts, the houses nearby are just too close
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2013, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 22, 2013, 09:37:32 PM
Anybody who wen to the foo fighters on the boucher road would know casement park is totally unsuitable for concerts, the houses nearby are just too close

You've been to Croke for a concert? Or even for a game? there are houses the whole way around it.....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: our_fella on December 22, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
There's a lot of backward thinking in here. The gaa is being given a fortune to build a 21st century stadium and would be crazy not to take it. Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games. I'm not sure about the location but I can see the thinking of putting it in the second largest city in the country. Parking etc will be an issue but hopefully plans can be put in place to make it run smoothly. I do have doubts on the size as well and maybe 30,000 would be enough but then I can see a case of making it big enough to hold ulster finals.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players. It doesn't have to be packed either to host games in it. I've seen great atmosphere's in croke park for All Ireland Junior and Intermediate finals with a few thousand in it.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights. If got the right combination of games and counties there's no reason it couldn't work - for god sake they were able to attract nearly 20,000 for a friendly between Donegal and Ulster last year. Depending on the draw a double header of first round games could go there including the Antrim one. Both ulster semi's no doubt will go to it and obviously the final. They would need to push for a quarter final as well. If they got the right facilities and access to the ground it really could be built into a great day out like Croke Park.

Clearly you havent been to the Athletic Grounds since its been done up?? Muppet
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 23, 2013, 09:20:04 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 21, 2013, 01:25:29 AM
I see they have appointed a contractor for the stadium.

It's beginning to fall into place.....

Ryan Feeney, Faughanvale, Co. Derry
Stephen McGeehan, Ballinderry, Co. Tyrone

Mark H Durkan, Derry City, Co. Derry

Heron Bros, Ballinascreen, Co. Derry

Hmmm

I hope you're not implying that the GAA would be underhand when awarding contracts??

The tendering process will all be above board and transparent like always  ;)

Oh, surely Creagh Concrete would be in with a good shout in providing the concrete considering they already put their hands in their pockets in sponsoring the saffrons!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 23, 2013, 10:00:34 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 21, 2013, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 20, 2013, 04:14:57 PM
This whole idea of having premium levels and VIP areas to my mind is far removed from the ethos of the GAA. I don't mind the smallish section you get in Semple, Armagh, Omagh etc. But this introduces division based on money and influence. I would see through it if Clubs were to get a sahre of such tickets for their use but that won't happen.

The rugby and soccer boys have plenty of money. They'll bring a lot of corporate money.
I can't wait to see OWC play there with our fleg flying over the Nationalist West Belfast and Caral standing for the Queen. Or maybe we'll have agreement on a ne NI fleg with Dolly's Brae as our anthem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2013, 12:42:35 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights.

That selection must be amongst the biggest pile of shite I've ever read on this board.

I go to a match to watch the teams and the sporting competition, not observe the seat my arse is on.

I played in games to win, not look around me at the big stands.


The GAA already has by far the highest percentage of children at its games (relative to soccer/rugby), despite their (supposed) dilapidated stadia.


Sh!te like that above will be what will drive finances into the red - chasing needless white elephants to satisfy eejits who are living in a little dream world of their own.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 30, 2013, 03:17:03 PM
Antrim League double headers would attract .... 800 ??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2013, 03:26:46 PM
Quote
Check out the virtual flythrough of the new Casement Park/Páirc Mhic Asmaint stadium. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE)

As expected, a complete f**king nightmare.

In a 3 minute 30 second video, it was 2 minutes in before we got a look at the pitch. Then after 2 minutes 40 seconds they were away from the pitch.

Indicative of where the priorities actually are. If it was their own money they wouldn't be so wasteful.


Build a new main stand. Stick a roof over the existing terrace that runs down the side of the pitch. That means those that want to be seated for 99% of matches are dry and those that want to stand for 99% of matches are dry.

Job done and millions saved. Maybe the money saved on the monstrosity could then have been spent on reducing the queues at A&E in the Royal. Or something similarly useful.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 30, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: our_fella on December 22, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
There's a lot of backward thinking in here. The gaa is being given a fortune to build a 21st century stadium and would be crazy not to take it. Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games. I'm not sure about the location but I can see the thinking of putting it in the second largest city in the country. Parking etc will be an issue but hopefully plans can be put in place to make it run smoothly. I do have doubts on the size as well and maybe 30,000 would be enough but then I can see a case of making it big enough to hold ulster finals.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players. It doesn't have to be packed either to host games in it. I've seen great atmosphere's in croke park for All Ireland Junior and Intermediate finals with a few thousand in it.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights. If got the right combination of games and counties there's no reason it couldn't work - for god sake they were able to attract nearly 20,000 for a friendly between Donegal and Ulster last year. Depending on the draw a double header of first round games could go there including the Antrim one. Both ulster semi's no doubt will go to it and obviously the final. They would need to push for a quarter final as well. If they got the right facilities and access to the ground it really could be built into a great day out like Croke Park.

Clearly you havent been to the Athletic Grounds since its been done up?? Muppet

I do think Armagh is a good stadium and I was maybe over the top in the above comment. However, I think it has to be considered that on days when it isn't full the vast majority of the crowd go the stand. I've been numerous times where there is over 4,000 in the stand and just a few hundred on the other side. This is replicated in croke park where the vast majority of the crowds choose to go to the stands as opposed to the hill. There is no doubt that the availability of family seating in croke park has helped to increase attendances and bring out more families since it was done. A good environment, cheap family seats and marketing can no doubt help to attract more people to our games.

On a separate note calling someone a muppet for giving an opinion doesn't reflect very positively on yourself.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 30, 2013, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2013, 12:42:35 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights.

That selection must be amongst the biggest pile of shite I've ever read on this board.

I go to a match to watch the teams and the sporting competition, not observe the seat my arse is on.

I played in games to win, not look around me at the big stands.


The GAA already has by far the highest percentage of children at its games (relative to soccer/rugby), despite their (supposed) dilapidated stadia.


Sh!te like that above will be what will drive finances into the red - chasing needless white elephants to satisfy eejits who are living in a little dream world of their own.

There is no doubt that a modern stadium if used correctly and with good facilities can help to create a good match day experience and attract more people to the games. Personally I be at games from January to December from club venues to croke park and the venue wouldn't put me off. But there's a lot of people who could easily be swayed and attracted by the experience.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2013, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 30, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
I've been numerous times where there is over 4,000 in the stand and just a few hundred on the other side.

Much of that will be to do with car parking being on the side of the main stand...

By preference I would stand rather than sit. Of course, when kids get involved, having a seat (you could chain them to) would then take preference.


QuoteBut there's a lot of people who could easily be swayed and attracted by the experience.

Those same people are much more likely to be put off by men and women getting caught in the passion of the moment and using industrial language.

If you want to try and remove that passion - you'll kill the game as it is largely those that care so much that make it run.


[I've not even mentioned the eejits that would question the parentage of the referee, the eyesight of the linesmen and the basic abilities of players on both teams using crude means!]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: our_fella on December 30, 2013, 10:59:53 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 30, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: our_fella on December 22, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
There's a lot of backward thinking in here. The gaa is being given a fortune to build a 21st century stadium and would be crazy not to take it. Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games. I'm not sure about the location but I can see the thinking of putting it in the second largest city in the country. Parking etc will be an issue but hopefully plans can be put in place to make it run smoothly. I do have doubts on the size as well and maybe 30,000 would be enough but then I can see a case of making it big enough to hold ulster finals.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players. It doesn't have to be packed either to host games in it. I've seen great atmosphere's in croke park for All Ireland Junior and Intermediate finals with a few thousand in it.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights. If got the right combination of games and counties there's no reason it couldn't work - for god sake they were able to attract nearly 20,000 for a friendly between Donegal and Ulster last year. Depending on the draw a double header of first round games could go there including the Antrim one. Both ulster semi's no doubt will go to it and obviously the final. They would need to push for a quarter final as well. If they got the right facilities and access to the ground it really could be built into a great day out like Croke Park.

Clearly you havent been to the Athletic Grounds since its been done up?? Muppet

I do think Armagh is a good stadium and I was maybe over the top in the above comment. However, I think it has to be considered that on days when it isn't full the vast majority of the crowd go the stand. I've been numerous times where there is over 4,000 in the stand and just a few hundred on the other side. This is replicated in croke park where the vast majority of the crowds choose to go to the stands as opposed to the hill. There is no doubt that the availability of family seating in croke park has helped to increase attendances and bring out more families since it was done. A good environment, cheap family seats and marketing can no doubt help to attract more people to our games.

On a separate note calling someone a muppet for giving an opinion doesn't reflect very positively on yourself.

When you come out with things that a muppet would say, be prepared to be called a muppet. Simple
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on December 30, 2013, 11:26:29 PM
'Clearly you havent been to the Athletic Grounds since its been done up?? Muppet'

And how long did it take them to do the Athletic Grounds up? There's your muppets. Simple  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 31, 2013, 09:09:09 AM
Quote from: our_fella on December 30, 2013, 10:59:53 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 30, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: our_fella on December 22, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
There's a lot of backward thinking in here. The gaa is being given a fortune to build a 21st century stadium and would be crazy not to take it. Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games. I'm not sure about the location but I can see the thinking of putting it in the second largest city in the country. Parking etc will be an issue but hopefully plans can be put in place to make it run smoothly. I do have doubts on the size as well and maybe 30,000 would be enough but then I can see a case of making it big enough to hold ulster finals.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players. It doesn't have to be packed either to host games in it. I've seen great atmosphere's in croke park for All Ireland Junior and Intermediate finals with a few thousand in it.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights. If got the right combination of games and counties there's no reason it couldn't work - for god sake they were able to attract nearly 20,000 for a friendly between Donegal and Ulster last year. Depending on the draw a double header of first round games could go there including the Antrim one. Both ulster semi's no doubt will go to it and obviously the final. They would need to push for a quarter final as well. If they got the right facilities and access to the ground it really could be built into a great day out like Croke Park.

Clearly you havent been to the Athletic Grounds since its been done up?? Muppet

I do think Armagh is a good stadium and I was maybe over the top in the above comment. However, I think it has to be considered that on days when it isn't full the vast majority of the crowd go the stand. I've been numerous times where there is over 4,000 in the stand and just a few hundred on the other side. This is replicated in croke park where the vast majority of the crowds choose to go to the stands as opposed to the hill. There is no doubt that the availability of family seating in croke park has helped to increase attendances and bring out more families since it was done. A good environment, cheap family seats and marketing can no doubt help to attract more people to our games.

On a separate note calling someone a muppet for giving an opinion doesn't reflect very positively on yourself.

When you come out with things that a muppet would say, be prepared to be called a muppet. Simple

Approximately 75% of the Athletic Grounds is terrace. I have no problem with that and think its a good ground. However, if your building a new stadium to host ulster finals and big games the majority of it should be seated. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that people and families in particular prefer to sit. People don't want to bring their wives or children to stand on a terrace where they can't see and whether some of you like it or not the majority of people prefer to sit.

When games aren't full and people have a choice I would say 90% plus choose to sit. Look at any games held in Omagh,Newry,Armagh,Croke Park,Portlaoise etc - the vast majority of the crowd always go to the stand even when it involves a worse viewing point than the terrace. And I have no doubt that the availability of family seating in Croke Park helps to attract extra people to the games.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 31, 2013, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: our_fella on December 22, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 22, 2013, 09:51:34 AM
There's a lot of backward thinking in here. The gaa is being given a fortune to build a 21st century stadium and would be crazy not to take it. Every stadium currently in ulster is out of date and not family friendly. There is no doubt that the modern croke park has helped transform the gaa and attract more people to the games. I'm not sure about the location but I can see the thinking of putting it in the second largest city in the country. Parking etc will be an issue but hopefully plans can be put in place to make it run smoothly. I do have doubts on the size as well and maybe 30,000 would be enough but then I can see a case of making it big enough to hold ulster finals.

With a stadium filled with comfortable seats and ability to offer family tickets far more families are likely to go compared to the alternative of going to stand on a terrace. The facilities can be used as a selling point in our games and provide a wonderful venue for the players. It doesn't have to be packed either to host games in it. I've seen great atmosphere's in croke park for All Ireland Junior and Intermediate finals with a few thousand in it.

However, there is no point in having it if they don't sit down and see exactly how it can be used to attract large crowds and really promote the games (hopefully can be used for other things but selling our own games is most important). With a bit of marketing perhaps one or 2 big league double headers could be played in it under lights. If got the right combination of games and counties there's no reason it couldn't work - for god sake they were able to attract nearly 20,000 for a friendly between Donegal and Ulster last year. Depending on the draw a double header of first round games could go there including the Antrim one. Both ulster semi's no doubt will go to it and obviously the final. They would need to push for a quarter final as well. If they got the right facilities and access to the ground it really could be built into a great day out like Croke Park.

Clearly you havent been to the Athletic Grounds since its been done up?? Muppet
I'd hardly call the Athletics Grounds a modern stadium. One half decent stand with a lopsided building in the middle of it and an oversized TV. After about 20 year's work.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 31, 2013, 01:02:39 PM
Any stadium that serves tea and confectionery on two fold up tables is not modern.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 31, 2013, 01:14:39 PM
It all depends on what standards you set. I agree with the 2 previous posters as regards the Athletic Grounds, it's ok, much improved on what was there, and as good as there is after Clones. It's about adequate for the present but not up to what we should expect in the future.  Ravenhill, which is almost complete is functional, but it won't win too many design awards.  The new Casement, however, will be an iconic structure offering top class facilities for years to come.  The only drawback is that it couldn't be fully covered
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: mackers on December 31, 2013, 02:05:56 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 31, 2013, 01:02:39 PM
Any stadium that serves tea and confectionery on two fold up tables is not modern.
One throwaway remark by a poster and now it's open season on the Athletic Grounds.  Tea and confectionary are sold out of two shops which are an integral part of the new stand. Comments regarding a "lop-sided building" and the length of time it took to build it are irrelevant to the point being made.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 31, 2013, 03:14:59 PM
The Athletic Grounds is probably currently my favourite ground in Ulster. However, if a fortune is going to be spent on a new stadium to help drive the gaa forward more seating and modern facilities should be included.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on December 31, 2013, 04:43:40 PM
The new stand in the Athletic Grounds is very poorly laid out.  You cannot walk from one end to the other.  It's not a patch on the stand in Pairc Esler in Newry.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 31, 2013, 05:39:39 PM
The Armagh County Board really did spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar when they decided to build the new stand around the Ceannarus Building. It was already a poultice before the stand was built and it remains one of the 3 worst structures at a GAA ground in Ireland, the other 2 being the concrete box at the rear of the Nally in Croke, which masquerades as a control room, and the pylon at McHale Park which is supposed to be a commentary box
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on December 31, 2013, 07:46:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2013, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 30, 2013, 04:20:18 PM
I've been numerous times where there is over 4,000 in the stand and just a few hundred on the other side.

Much of that will be to do with car parking being on the side of the main stand...

By preference I would stand rather than sit. Of course, when kids get involved, having a seat (you could chain them to) would then take preference.


QuoteBut there's a lot of people who could easily be swayed and attracted by the experience.

Those same people are much more likely to be put off by men and women getting caught in the passion of the moment and using industrial language.

If you want to try and remove that passion - you'll kill the game as it is largely those that care so much that make it run.


[I've not even mentioned the eejits that would question the parentage of the referee, the eyesight of the linesmen and the basic abilities of players on both teams using crude means!]

Do are you proposing games should be over 18s only or is it OK to swear in front of kids?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on January 03, 2014, 12:44:32 PM

Fold Housing plan for former Visteon factory in west Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367)


The old Ford factory is

I wonder if some lateral thinking would allow the GAA to do some sort of a land swap with Fold, Casement for the Ford factory.

This would allow the GAA to

1. build a proper sized stadium with a roof on all four sides.
Planning permission would be straightforward for the GAA, as the stadium would be regarded as replacement economic activity, especially if some work units were incorporated into the build.
2. avoid an almost certain lengthy legal challenge from Casement residents, who may have a fair chance of winning.

Fold would benefit from planning,a s it's by no means certain that the planners will approve a change of use from economic activity to housing.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on January 04, 2014, 09:16:30 AM
It's past the post now Snatter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gizzy15 on January 05, 2014, 09:27:58 PM
Quote from: snatter on January 03, 2014, 12:44:32 PM

Fold Housing plan for former Visteon factory in west Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367)


The old Ford factory is

  • a far larger site than Casement
  • consequently much further away from residents
  • is available for development right now
  • has it's own access road
  • is v close to Finaghy station

I wonder if some lateral thinking would allow the GAA to do some sort of a land swap with Fold, Casement for the Ford factory.

This would allow the GAA to

1. build a proper sized stadium with a roof on all four sides.
Planning permission would be straightforward for the GAA, as the stadium would be regarded as replacement economic activity, especially if some work units were incorporated into the build.
2. avoid an almost certain lengthy legal challenge from Casement residents, who may have a fair chance of winning.

Fold would benefit from planning,a s it's by no means certain that the planners will approve a change of use from economic activity to housing.

Any thoughts?

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the news about visteon, it could also have had a slip road straight off M1 which would take a whole load of pressure off the local road network. It's too late now but there was no thought put in to original plan. Also not sure if local residents beside plant would be in favour although not the same proximity to ground as would be for the residents of casement will be.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on January 05, 2014, 10:06:11 PM
Quote from: Gizzy15 on January 05, 2014, 09:27:58 PM
Quote from: snatter on January 03, 2014, 12:44:32 PM

Fold Housing plan for former Visteon factory in west Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367)


The old Ford factory is

  • a far larger site than Casement
  • consequently much further away from residents
  • is available for development right now
  • has it's own access road
  • is v close to Finaghy station

I wonder if some lateral thinking would allow the GAA to do some sort of a land swap with Fold, Casement for the Ford factory.

This would allow the GAA to

1. build a proper sized stadium with a roof on all four sides.
Planning permission would be straightforward for the GAA, as the stadium would be regarded as replacement economic activity, especially if some work units were incorporated into the build.
2. avoid an almost certain lengthy legal challenge from Casement residents, who may have a fair chance of winning.

Fold would benefit from planning,a s it's by no means certain that the planners will approve a change of use from economic activity to housing.

Any thoughts?

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the news about visteon, it could also have had a slip road straight off M1 which would take a whole load of pressure off the local road network. It's too late now but there was no thought put in to original plan. Also not sure if local residents beside plant would be in favour although not the same proximity to ground as would be for the residents of casement will be.

Well I don't think the local residents are in favour of the proposed social housing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 05, 2014, 10:47:30 PM
What exactly are the local residents in favour of?   Seems to me all they want is dereliction and decay
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on January 05, 2014, 10:55:57 PM
Will Antrim play dr mc Kenna cup games in this stadium?

Any details on today's attendance in Creggan ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 05, 2014, 11:32:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 05, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 05, 2014, 10:47:30 PM
What exactly are the local residents in favour of?   Seems to me all they want is dereliction and decay
You do realise that you are talking about different sets of 'local residents'?
Casement Park residents & Visteon site residents aren't the same people.
Different set, same mentality. Although they 2 fields away from each other.  Where I come from we would call them the same set.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Beo on January 06, 2014, 12:13:18 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2014, 09:16:30 AM
It's past the post now Snatter.

Oh you silly boy.
Thinking local people have been trampled into the ground by strangers.
Time waits for no man.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 06, 2014, 06:17:30 PM
Where did drici's David Bowie post from last night go?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 06, 2014, 07:09:53 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 04, 2014, 09:16:30 AM
It's past the post now Snatter.
I'd say there's still time for a challenge, no?
Title: Ceol
Post by: drici on January 06, 2014, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 06, 2014, 06:17:30 PM

Where did drici's David Bowie post from last night go?


That was verging on a beezer.
In the studio for final recording.
Guitar intro at the start is class.
Ronson is a perfectionist.
Title: Úr
Post by: drici on January 07, 2014, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 06, 2014, 06:17:30 PM

Where did drici's David Bowie post from last night go?


New song for Armagh.
Great news for the County.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cITjfIMXN0g
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on January 25, 2014, 04:40:55 PM
Heard there was a rally against the stadium today.  Only 50 odd at it.  Looks like the people want the regeneration a new stadium brings. Fair play.  Lets get it built.   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on January 25, 2014, 05:10:35 PM
Is there a lower limit on interest before these things become viable?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on January 25, 2014, 05:57:26 PM
If Casement goes ahead despite the protests from residents, the new stadium is always going to be surrounded by ill-feeling from alot of people in that area. Any big match that takes place, will continually get up residents noses. That can't be good for the GAA in Belfast, Ulster and as a whole.

A fine stadium surrounded by angry pissed off residents isn't good in any way, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longjohnsilver on January 25, 2014, 05:58:02 PM
(http://img.u.tv/galleries/777/620x349/casement_25012014.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longjohnsilver on January 25, 2014, 06:15:56 PM

Extracts from The Final Development Management Report.
3.2 " The need for the proposal has therefore already been established through this goverment commitment and also through the existing use of the site as a GAA stadium"........ We the residents see no need for our area to be entombed by a 38500 concert ready stadium. Also due to falling GAA attendance figures this is unlikely to be filled. So the Government have committed to this. Why then refuse to release the Business Plan after all the days of one party governmemt are over our local politicians surely would not want to be less than open and honest with their electors and taxpayers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longjohnsilver on January 25, 2014, 06:41:22 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72524000/jpg/_72524599_casementprogest.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on January 25, 2014, 07:31:17 PM
Social justice for residents because they're doing up an existing stadium they're living by?

What brand of scutter is that?

The GAA better not kowtow to shite like that if they want to get anything done in the future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on January 25, 2014, 07:36:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 25, 2014, 07:31:17 PM
Social justice for residents because they're doing up an existing stadium they're living by?

What brand of scutter is that?

The GAA better not kowtow to shite like that if they want to get anything done in the future.

Yep, it's just a lick of paint it's getting.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on January 25, 2014, 07:38:05 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 25, 2014, 07:32:41 PM
"Doing up".
::)

It's amazing to me that any Antrim GAA supporter could do anything besides see that sort of guff for what it is, the predictable, generic and pointless opposition that arises around every single major development on our island.

If protesters want to lift up placards wailing about 'social justice' because they're pissed off about a re-developed stadium they're entitled to but for outsiders looking at that it just makes them look wholly ridiculous.

They better cop themselves on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on January 25, 2014, 07:43:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 25, 2014, 07:40:49 PM
Why?

What amazes me about Antrim GAA supporters is that they are happy to see their county ground removed from their possession to a yet unknown entity for a cost of £0.00.

See, the financial details of the development are another issue and a real one. I highly doubt the people out there protesting residents' 'social rights' would give a flying feck if Antrim GAA washed out to sea because of the re-development.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longjohnsilver on January 25, 2014, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Syferus on January 25, 2014, 07:31:17 PM

The GAA better not kowtow to shite like that if they want to get anything done in the future.


What? How dare you!
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mr-gaa-jailed-for-two-decades-of-sexual-terror-26103328.html


A FORMER top GAA official who carried out a reign of sexual terror against children over more than two decades from 1957 to 1978, was jailed for three years yesterday.

Former Ulster Council Secretary Michael Feeney (68) of Glenfield House, Corfad, Ballybay, Co Monaghan dubbed for many years "Mr GAA" in the North was sentenced by Judge Matt Deery at Monaghan Circuit Court when he pleaded to the litany of offences involving indecent assault and sexual assault on young girls and boys then aged between seven and 15 years.

The offences took place while Feeney was a primary school teacher, before he took up his GAA post.


Some of the victims travelled from Australia to give evidence. They also waived their right to remain anonymous so that the accused could be publicly exposed and named.



The judge had reserved his decision on sentence until yesterday, following a hearing last Tuesday during which the catalogue of sex assaults was outlined in court.



Feeney was removed from his GAA post in 1997 in the wake of the Garda investigation. Yesterday the GAA expressed sympathy to the families of those abused.



Some of the young girls and boys were sexually molested as the accused sat beside them in a school classroom.



One female, now aged 49, was frequently abused over a five-year period when she travelled with him in a car, when he visited her home, and also at a local hall.

Another victim described how she was sexually assaulted when she visited Feeney to collect money for newspapers.



All the victims said they were then too afraid to report what was happening to their parents.



The assaults all related to incidents in which the male victims were fondled sexually.



Before sentencing Feeney to three years imprisonment on each of the 21 charges to which he pleaded, the sentences to run concurrently, Judge Deery commended gardai on bringing what he described as "a sensitive and difficult investigation to a successful conclusion".



He described the assaults with which Feeney was charged as "in the middle range of offences of that particular nature which have come before the courts in recent times".


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 01, 2014, 08:50:20 AM
Don't understand the significance of that post.  I can't understand why the Andytown Road end is not covered.  It's hard to square the circle of providing a 21st century facilities while creating a large uncovered seating area at what will probably be the most popular side of the ground
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on February 06, 2014, 08:14:10 PM
Casement Park: GAA 'could have engaged better'




A leading GAA official has admitted they could have done more to engage with residents opposed to the building of a major new stadium in west Belfast.

It is understood the organisation now believes it will have to offer to buy some homes next to the Casement Park development.

Residents are threatening legal action to stop the 38,000-seater stadium that got planning permission before Christmas.

Ryan Feeney, Head of Public Affairs of the Ulster Council of the GAA, says he "deeply regrets" the fact that some of those opposed to the project are members of the organisation.

In an interview for The View on BBC One, he said "There's things you can always do differently and better, and I'd be the first to hold my hands up and say perhaps there's things we could have done a lot better in terms of engaging with the residents.

"I lead that process and I take responsibility for that."

The GAA plans to build a 38,000-seater stadium in west Belfast
Residents say the organisation has treated them badly and ignored their concerns.

But Mr Feeney said the GAA has been "transparent and open" in everything it has done.

"We've been engaging with the residents for 18 months, we've given them four designs for the stadium; we've knocked 300 doors; we've had a three-week consultation process with a scale model.

"We went above and beyond what we had to do in the consultation process because it was the right thing to do.

"It is a matter of deep regret that we find ourselves in a situation where we have members of the GAA who live locally who are opposed to this project, and I want to appeal to them to get round the table, discuss issues with us and I will assure them the GAA will do its best to alleviate their concerns."

Ryan Feeney said the GAA should have engaged better with residents
Asked what he would have done differently, Mr Feeney said: "Well what I would have done differently in terms of the engagement process, I would have ensured that we would have spread the net wider in terms of engaging with the residents.

"I would also have ensured that on a weekly basis they were getting updates directly from the GAA instead of meeting smaller groups and giving them information so that they were getting direct information from us that might have alleviated some of the misinformation that was put out about the project and that currently exists."

The residents are currently considering whether its worth seeking a judicial review, which at the very least could hold up the project that the GAA hopes to complete in 2016.

I understand the organisation is now actively considering offering to buy a small number of houses closest to the stadium.

One of those who may be affected, Yvonne Mulligan, says she and her husband would give any such offer serious consideration because they do not think they could continue living in their current home once the stadium is built.

"We live in very close proximity to it, and it is going to have a major detrimental impact on us," she says.

"People's health is suffering, people are depressed, they're anxious; they can't sleep at night. It just consumes your life."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
Quote"People's health is suffering, people are depressed, they're anxious; they can't sleep at night. It just consumes your life."

Perhaps a little perspective is needed here. The proposed development may not be great, but this is West Belfast, the Brits occupied Casement for years! 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 06, 2014, 08:28:52 PM
Interesting statement. I would not be in favour of the current proposals , but I think a new casement is good for ulster gaa as a whole. Time to support the
Project.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 06, 2014, 09:05:57 PM
Buying some houses is an interesting development but I cant honestly see how they choose which ones to buy ie where do they draw the line. From the above quote it sounds like a random few rather than a whole street. It was done for Thomond park a few years back however it added quite a bit to the development costs!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2014, 09:16:07 PM
They should buy all the houses and then re-sell/rent them on condition that there is no whinging. The actual cost of this might not be all that much.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 06, 2014, 09:57:54 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 06, 2014, 09:05:57 PM
Buying some houses is an interesting development but I cant honestly see how they choose which ones to buy ie where do they draw the line. From the above quote it sounds like a random few rather than a whole street. It was done for Thomond park a few years back however it added quite a bit to the development costs!

Think they are talking about the houses at the unused side entrance to casement in Moorland. There are two or three houses there that don't have the space between themselves and the perimeter wall that the others do.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 06, 2014, 10:31:26 PM
hardstation, would you support the project if it remained the home of Antrim GAA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 07, 2014, 08:52:59 AM
'Think they are talking about the houses at the unused side entrance to casement in Moorland. There are two or three houses there that don't have the space between themselves and the perimeter wall that the others do.'

I see the ones you mean on the photo below. Still I think it could open up a can of worms as if those are bought then surely a number of the other residents would want to sell their houses too. From the aerial photo there must be around 50 properties along the stadium perimeter each one costing around 150000 pounds (or more) - The GAA could end up with a hefty bill very quickly

(http://belfastmediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/casement-park-aerial-col-1024x512.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
QuoteFrom the aerial photo there must be around 50 properties along the stadium perimeter each one costing around 150000 pounds (or more) - The GAA could end up with a hefty bill very quickly

They could end up with a big bill, but they can rebuild these or just sell them again and get most of the money back.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on February 07, 2014, 01:35:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
QuoteFrom the aerial photo there must be around 50 properties along the stadium perimeter each one costing around 150000 pounds (or more) - The GAA could end up with a hefty bill very quickly

They could end up with a big bill, but they can rebuild these or just sell them again and get most of the money back.

Or they could do what they should have done from the start - build the f*ing stadium on a site that's f*ing big enough.

That way, you can

It's simple. Not complicated.
The Casement site is, and always was too small.

If Belfast doesn't stump up a larger site, (eg Musgrave Park), then move it out to somewhere that wants it (and take the rugby world cup along with us).

Can one of our noble, hard working Belfast City Councillors tell us how much would a token 100 year lease on Musgrave Park would be? And then compare that to the cost of blackmail-buying an ever-increasing list of houses around Casement.

It won't take a forensic accountant to tell you that it would be cheaper, even now, to go down the route of a proper stadium on a new site rather than building 3/4 of a stadium involving the senseless purchase of several dozens of surrounding houses at inflated prices.





Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sam03/05 on February 07, 2014, 09:30:54 PM
Build it in Healy Park Omagh, Antrim is a silly county anyway, let them play games at grounds with not even a covered stand, let them watch from grass banks for the next 50 years.
We will take it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 09, 2014, 09:33:02 AM
Whilst dungannon will always be the preferred option for the stadium i think that statement portrays the softer side of ulster gaa and is to be welcomed. I hope the residents put out a statement of their own regrets and how they could have been more accomodating. this is the making up process. This stadium goes ahead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on February 09, 2014, 09:41:26 AM
It appears to me that the residents genuine concerns which weren't fully appreciated and if they were were not factored in, are now being fully taken accounted for.
Ulste GAA seem to have realised that by continuing to ignore, bull on, tr**p over ( choose whatever term you want ) will only lead to more problems and have now changed tack and offered a few olive branches which is always going to be a better strategy than the one they had to begin with.

So fair play Ulster GAA even if it did take a bit of ignorance to get the message through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 09, 2014, 11:40:16 AM
Quote from: sam03/05 on February 07, 2014, 09:30:54 PM
Build it in Healy Park Omagh, Antrim is a silly county anyway, let them play games at grounds with not even a covered stand, let them watch from grass banks for the next 50 years.
We will take it.
Yes and they can also continue to do other things like suggesting another boycott of the AI Under 21 Hurling semi final if they ever qualify again
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 09, 2014, 03:15:43 PM
If I was the man you are defaming I'd be having you for breakfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 09, 2014, 03:22:11 PM
Just take care ye don't cross the line. Play it fair.
Title: Síodhchais
Post by: drici on February 10, 2014, 12:56:44 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 26, 2013, 08:40:54 PM

What are the plans for the fairy tree?


Only heard the night.

Ulster Council may make sure they do what Jack Rooney did (story was passed on from Aontroim ones).

What have these people started?
Title: Re: Síodhchais
Post by: orangeman on February 10, 2014, 01:04:07 AM
Quote from: drici on February 10, 2014, 12:56:44 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 26, 2013, 08:40:54 PM

What are the plans for the fairy tree?


Only heard the night.

Ulster Council may make sure they do what Jack Rooney did (story was passed on from Aontroim ones).

What have these people started?

What did Jack do many moons ago ?
Title: Foscailte
Post by: drici on February 10, 2014, 01:23:10 AM
Quote from: orangeman on February 10, 2014, 01:04:07 AM

What did Jack do many moons ago ?


Quote from: orangeman on February 06, 2014, 08:14:10 PM

But Mr Feeney said the GAA has been "transparent and open" in everything it has done.


You'll have no problem there then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 15, 2014, 06:16:22 PM
I see the West Belfast residents are now protesting about a proposed new school. First it's a stadium, then social and affordable housing, now a school! As a matter of interest what are they prepared to accept in terms of development?  They complain about being neglected, they complain when they are being regenerated, what do they want?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 15, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
???
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 15, 2014, 06:56:04 PM
Bottom line is that they're only happy when they have something to complain about
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on February 15, 2014, 11:02:31 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 15, 2014, 06:56:04 PM
Bottom line is that they're only happy when they have something to complain about

Are you complaining about people complaining?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 12:34:22 AM
All I'm saying is that whenever some sort of structural development which is attempting to contribute to the overall regeneration of west Belfast  is proposed the NIMBY brigade come out in force. They're opposed to houses, schools, football stadiums etc.etc.etc.  I'm not making any comment, or expressing any views on their right to complain about other injustices.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on February 16, 2014, 12:40:19 AM
No ..nor making any comment at all  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 12:42:55 AM
You're probably right
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 16, 2014, 12:51:13 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 12:34:22 AM
All I'm saying is that whenever some sort of structural development which is attempting to contribute to the overall regeneration of west Belfast  is proposed the NIMBY brigade come out in force. They're opposed to houses, schools, football stadiums etc.etc.etc.  I'm not making any comment, or expressing any views on their right to complain about other injustices.
There legitimate concerns from locals on all these topics. The proposals for Casement redevelopment, additional social housing or development of a common area into a 3G pitch etc for a school all come with cons for the locals as well as pros. They are entitled to have their say.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 01:05:45 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 16, 2014, 12:46:23 AM
You are making reference to other peoples right to protest at other injustices.

This thread is about Casement Park redevelopment, not a school, not social housing.
You only brought them in to suit your agenda. I'll ask again, why don't you include the people of Glenavy who opposed an incinerator in their area?

Worst of all, you don't have the balls to give your own opinion on any of the three separate issues you have mentioned.
Im in favour of the school's 3G pitch and the social housing. I guarantee you if anything else was proposed for the Ford site, the locals would be kicking up about the need for housing. I'm also in favour of the stadium. Development happens in built up areas, it's an occupational hazard of urban living. In the countryside trees grow and block our sunlight  and farmers spread slurry in the fields around our homes, that's an occupational hazard of rural living
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on February 16, 2014, 09:36:23 AM
Reads like the 'opinion' of a 3 year old.

So because you would be in favour of a 3g pitch on principle, you don't believe you or more importantly the people living in the area should consider what impact that will have on the lives of people living there and acknowledge that they a right to protest if their lives will be adversely affected? You'd prefer them to be like sheep and stay silent even though the safety and quality of life could be impacted?

Are you a devout Roman Catholic?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2014, 01:37:02 PM
Haven been involved in taking down the old school up at the top of the glen road, could someone tell me why they want to develope a 3g pitch down beside the school, vol grammar school often have to travel to their playing fields. there were pitches up at the old site and these could have been developed, but did the parish not decide to sell the land for housing? CBS is approx less than a mile from La Salle, does it no make sense to do a co-op for the developemnt of a 3/4G pitch on their site which is in the pipeline.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 16, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2014, 01:37:02 PM
Haven been involved in taking down the old school up at the top of the glen road,

Ye didn't see a Vosene pencil case knocking about?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2014, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 12:34:22 AM
the NIMBY brigade come out in force. They're opposed to houses, schools, football stadiums etc.etc.etc. 
Ah sure doesn't everybody know there's a perfect location for all those kind of things ......

It's called SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 16, 2014, 08:53:18 PM
Proposed conversion of one of the grass GAA pitches to 3G with floodlights in the falls park also being objected to by local residents in fear of extra car parking and artificial light at night.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2014, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 16, 2014, 12:34:22 AM
the NIMBY brigade come out in force. They're opposed to houses, schools, football stadiums etc.etc.etc. 
Ah sure doesn't everybody know there's a perfect location for all those kind of things ......

It's called SOMEWHERE ELSE.
The DCAL grant is for Casement. It's that or nothing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 17, 2014, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2014, 09:36:23 AM
Reads like the 'opinion' of a 3 year old.

So because you would be in favour of a 3g pitch on principle, you don't believe you or more importantly the people living in the area should consider what impact that will have on the lives of people living there and acknowledge that they a right to protest if their lives will be adversely affected? You'd prefer them to be like sheep and stay silent even though the safety and quality of life could be impacted?

Are you a devout Roman Catholic?
I don't know what point you're trying to make, all I'm saying that if you listened to every protester protesting about development, you'd never get anything done. As regards Casement I do think that even though, as far as I know, access to clear daylight is not enough grounds to prohibit a planning application, those residents who will lose their afternoon and evening sunshine should have an option to have their homes bought by the GAA. Anyone else making complaints about crowds, traffic congestion etc should be told to catch themselves on. By the way how many homes will lose evening sunshine? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on February 17, 2014, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 17, 2014, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2014, 09:36:23 AM
Reads like the 'opinion' of a 3 year old.

So because you would be in favour of a 3g pitch on principle, you don't believe you or more importantly the people living in the area should consider what impact that will have on the lives of people living there and acknowledge that they a right to protest if their lives will be adversely affected? You'd prefer them to be like sheep and stay silent even though the safety and quality of life could be impacted?

Are you a devout Roman Catholic?
I don't know what point you're trying to make, all I'm saying that if you listened to every protester protesting about development, you'd never get anything done. As regards Casement I do think that even though, as far as I know, access to clear daylight is not enough grounds to prohibit a planning application, those residents who will lose their afternoon and evening sunshine should have an option to have their homes bought by the GAA. Anyone else making complaints about crowds, traffic congestion etc should be told to catch themselves on. By the way how many homes will lose evening sunshine?

IIRC you've no 'rights' to a view, but you do to daylight if your neighbour decided to build a fúck off big extension right beside you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on February 17, 2014, 05:19:45 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 17, 2014, 10:28:39 AM
I don't know what point you're trying to make, all I'm saying that if you listened to every protester protesting about development, you'd never get anything done. As regards Casement I do think that even though, as far as I know, access to clear daylight is not enough grounds to prohibit a planning application, those residents who will lose their afternoon and evening sunshine should have an option to have their homes bought by the GAA. Anyone else making complaints about crowds, traffic congestion etc should be told to catch themselves on. By the way how many homes will lose evening sunshine?

The point I'm making is that you would rather people act like a flock of sheep (in the same way devout RCs are allowing the RC church to get away with their goings on)

Nothing wrong with rising up against a more powerful oppressive force and demanding a fair hearing, but you'd rather everyone just shut up and put up. Very easy for you to take that position seeing as you wont have to live with the mass of concrete at the end of your very short garden.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 17, 2014, 05:38:46 PM
There is an ash tree in the field behind my house and over the past  20 years it's now grown so high as it blocks my sunlight.  Can I cut it down?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
QuoteNothing wrong with rising up against a more powerful oppressive force and demanding a fair hearing

"Oppressive Force"? This isn't Tibet, it is Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 17, 2014, 06:28:37 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 17, 2014, 05:38:46 PM
There is an ash tree in the field behind my house and over the past  20 years it's now grown so high as it blocks my sunlight.  Can I cut it down?

Scullion hurls would give you a few pound for it ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 19, 2014, 10:51:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2014, 05:46:15 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on February 17, 2014, 05:38:46 PM
There is an ash tree in the field behind my house and over the past  20 years it's now grown so high as it blocks my sunlight.  Can I cut it down?
Go for it.
Justcread your comment about the allegation that residents were looking a payoff of 20,000 to allow the development to go ahead. I know the arguement is not about money, but regardless I believe they should be entitled to a level of compensation commensurate with the reduction in the value of their homes after the stadium is built. By the way how many residents will lose afternoon and evening sunshine
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on February 20, 2014, 07:36:57 PM
 Last I heard on this planning permission was given the go ahead and the residents weren't successful in their objections.

Has work actually begun?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on February 26, 2014, 11:50:56 PM
Work has started in some capacity. Presumably the work is phased and presumably the main contractor has a contract and a programme of works which if varied will lead to claims for increased - additional costs.

So is the meter running and will the potential delays lead to increased costs ?

So you either pay the contractor or sort out the residents. Either way, the costs are going up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on February 27, 2014, 12:11:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 27, 2014, 12:09:14 AM
I assume the total sum is now out of the possession and control of our now unsteady 'government'?

I assume the "government" has the money and it is being drawn down as per interim certificates ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 27, 2014, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 27, 2014, 12:09:14 AM
I assume the total sum is now out of the possession and control of our now unsteady 'government'?
This money's from London, not Belfast as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 27, 2014, 09:35:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 27, 2014, 08:58:28 PM
Is it London dictating the 'has to be spent on one stadium' nonsense, I wonder?
No idea.
Title: Dorcha
Post by: drici on March 03, 2014, 01:00:32 AM
"It is a matter of deep regret that we find ourselves in a situation where we have members of the GAA who live locally who are opposed to this project, and I want to appeal to them to get round the table, discuss issues with us and I will assure them the GAA will do its best to alleviate their concerns."

Just cut off their electricity supply.

No statement from Aogán Ó Fearghail into the third day and 33 years later and these neo Brits carry on like their thatcherite masters.

Turn the lights back on for the community and the people.

No words i mBéarla could describe what Corporate GAA seem to be doing and thereby have seemingly 'envisaged' for the people of the area.


Quote from: BennyCake on January 25, 2014, 05:57:26 PM

If Casement goes ahead despite the protests from residents, the new stadium is always going to be surrounded by ill-feeling from alot of people in that area. Any big match that takes place, will continually get up residents noses. That can't be good for the GAA in Belfast, Ulster and as a whole.

A fine stadium surrounded by angry pissed off residents isn't good in any way, in my opinion.



And then introduce pure antagonism just to be sure.

There does seem to be an attitude that a Belfast community can be smashed into the ground and that a lot of money can be made on  their backs once that is done.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 03, 2014, 02:36:28 PM
Not really linked but I'll tell you the story anyway...

I was listening to the radio on Sat there and they were telling the story about the Celtic revolution at Parkhead and how the residents were against Celtic building the new taller stands that they have now, they protested and picketted throughout the construction. After the stands were built they complained that they couldn't get a propoer TV signal anymore due to the height of the stands and were looking compensation.
Celtic sent them all a letter stating that they would reimburse them for their troubles and all they had to do was come to Celtic Park with their valid TV license and they would get reimbursed...

NOT ONE TURNED UP...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: take_yer_points on March 03, 2014, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 03, 2014, 02:36:28 PM
Not really linked but I'll tell you the story anyway...

I was listening to the radio on Sat there and they were telling the story about the Celtic revolution at Parkhead and how the residents were against Celtic building the new taller stands that they have now, they protested and picketted throughout the construction. After the stands were built they complained that they couldn't get a propoer TV signal anymore due to the height of the stands and were looking compensation.
Celtic sent them all a letter stating that they would reimburse them for their troubles and all they had to do was come to Celtic Park with their valid TV license and they would get reimbursed...

NOT ONE TURNED UP...

Heard the same story but it was residents of Forkhill complaining about low flying helicopters ruining TV reception
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on March 18, 2014, 01:35:39 AM
Incredible the goings on now.
The GAA have sent letters threatening to bring GAA members such as Antrim's only All Star in Football to court within 14 days.
And this is for what?
Free money because people suffered and many died and now we are going to climb up on the backs of the dead and the long term injured to suit ourselves and damage the lives of others including our own long term members - a wrong thing to do.
And this is what the GAA has become in order to be benefit claimants?
Disgusting what some people will do for free money.
Disgusting.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 18, 2014, 07:56:02 AM
Is this about the residents or the closing of a social club?
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: orangeman on March 18, 2014, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: drici on March 18, 2014, 01:35:39 AM
Incredible the goings on now.
The GAA have sent letters threatening to bring GAA members such as Antrim's only All Star in Football to court within 14 days.
And this is for what?
Free money because people suffered and many died and now we are going to climb up on the backs of the dead and the long term injured to suit ourselves and damage the lives of others including our own long term members - a wrong thing to do.
And this is what the GAA has become in order to be benefit claimants?
Disgusting what some people will do for free money.
Disgusting.

There's a lot in your post. An awful lot. This has the potential to turn really nasty. What happened the overtures that Ulster council were beginning it make or was that just good PR ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 18, 2014, 01:54:00 PM
It's made the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26629092

Members of a social club who are trying to stop their premises being demolished to make way for a new Gaelic Athletic Association stadium have been warned that they owe thousands to the GAA.

Casement Park social club is based within the GAA's existing Casement Park sports grounds in west Belfast.

The club was to be demolished as part of a £76m redevelopment of the stadium, but members are fighting it in court.

Members have received letters claiming they owe over £36,000 in unpaid bills.

The solicitors' letters were sent to individual members of the social club on behalf of the Antrim County GAA board, which owns Casement Park grounds.


Casement Park social club member

'Unpaid rent'

The correspondence, sent by O'Hare Solicitors in the city, was obtained by Belfast newspaper, the Irish News.

The letters state: "Since the 7 August 2013 your club has been continuing to occupy our client's premises without paying rent, rates or electricity charges.

"As of 31 December 2013, the amount due to our client is £36,552.50.

"This figure is increasing all the time and it is anticipated that by 31 March 2014 the amount will have increased by a further £6,500 approximately."

Casement Park social club, which is more than 50 years old, has been involved in a long-running legal dispute with Antrim County GAA board.

Club members officially severed their links with the board last December.


The solicitors' letters warn that responsibility for the social club's debt "lies with all of the individual members of the club and all are jointly and severally liable".

The correspondence adds that, following a court judgement in their favour, Antrim County GAA board, would retain the option of "pursuing those it thinks most liable to meet the debt".

Jude Whyte, who has held Casement social club membership for 25 years, said he was "shocked beyond words" when he read the solicitors' letter.

He told BBC Radio Ulster's Talkback programme that the correspondence had been sent to club members who were elderly, disabled and, in some cases, deceased.

Construction work on the planned 38,000-seat stadium is due to get under way in April
Mr Whyte said the letters had caused great distress and annoyance.

"Over the years, this club has actually donated over one million pounds for the development of Antrim football and hurling squads," Mr Whyte said.

He said the club was the "heart and soul" of the GAA in Belfast and the £36,552.50 bill was a "very dear pint of beer".

"And apparently, if you don't drink it by the end of March, it's going to go up another £6,500," Mr Whyte added.


He said the social club members were "decent people who will pay any bill and all bills within 10 days, when we're asked".

However, he said they could not query the bill at present as they had to fight the GAA in court for access to the club's accounts books.

Tim Attwood, who is an SDLP councillor in the area, said the GAA's threat of legal action was "not the way to do business".

He called on the GAA to sit down with club members and residents and take on board their concerns about the redevelopment.

Casement Park is the GAA's main sports venue in Ulster and work on transforming the ground into a 38,000-seat stadium is due to get under way in April.

However, the plans have been met with strong opposition from some residents, who have staged several protests against the redevelopment.

The residents are concerned that the height of the new structure would cast their houses into permanent shadow and have described the proposed new stadium as a "monstrosity".


Last summer, Casement Park Social Club went to court to stop its premises being shut down.

A confidential settlement was reached in that case with the Antrim County GAA board.

However, the social club instructed lawyers again following an incident earlier this year when its electricity supply was disconnected.

Although that issue has been resolved, the demolition injunction application has been listed for hearing later this month.

The BBC contacted the GAA's media representatives and the Antrim County GAA board for a response.

A GAA spokesman said as the social's club's legal action was before the courts, it would not be appropriate to comment.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 18, 2014, 06:35:19 PM
Quote from: drici on December 30, 2013, 03:22:05 AM
(http://www.geocities.ws/poopmyster_9001/jack2.jpg)     
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 18, 2014, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 18, 2014, 06:35:19 PM
Quote from: drici on December 30, 2013, 03:22:05 AM
(http://www.geocities.ws/poopmyster_9001/jack2.jpg)   


Don't start that again.  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2014, 07:58:31 PM
How where they not paying rent etc in the first place should have been looked at by the antrim board years ago if they see themselves a s a seperate entity
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2014, 08:57:05 PM
Hardstation u seem to be a bit in the know about this, whats the rental agreement with this club if the land been redeveloped or do they just have to shift>?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2014, 09:10:26 PM
"Over the years, this club has actually donated over one million pounds for the development of Antrim football and hurling squads,"

Not a very successful investment.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on March 18, 2014, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 18, 2014, 08:59:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 18, 2014, 08:57:05 PM
Hardstation u seem to be a bit in the know about this, whats the rental agreement with this club if the land been redeveloped or do they just have to shift>?
There ain't one that I know of. They want rid of the club.

What kind of a club is it? Do they field football or hurling teams? Or is it a drinking/social club?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on March 18, 2014, 11:34:52 PM
Seems bizarre that Antrim Co. Board won't give an itemised bill.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on March 18, 2014, 11:46:41 PM
GAA in ULster now rivalling the IFA for incompetence and balls ups.Alienating residents now suing fellow GAA members?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 19, 2014, 02:25:53 PM
Fuckin hell, where are Kieran Mulvey and Richard Haas when you need them?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 19, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Apart from the 300 drinkers does anyone give 2 damns
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2014, 06:20:24 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 19, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Apart from the 300 drinkers does anyone give 2 damns

or 2 drams, perhaps.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on March 19, 2014, 06:53:19 PM
Surely the whole Casement Park development project depends on the removal of the social club so a lot of people should give a damn
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on March 19, 2014, 10:35:53 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 19, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Apart from the 300 drinkers does anyone give 2 damns

Many would take this view. A club in Belfast is a shebeen with a committee elsewhere. Having been there and done that they're great craic. Sounds like this whole spat is a result of poor planning. Surely they could have incorporated the club into the development, denying open access to pitch and stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 19, 2014, 11:16:37 PM
Why don't they just bulldoze it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 20, 2014, 12:29:10 AM
Am I missing something here.  Is this a case thae 300 members of the Casement Social Club are holding this project to ransom?  I find it hard to have any sympathy for them, particularly when some here were making out that they were standing up for the rights of residents who were going to lose evening sunlight ! when, in actual fact, it would appear that the real issue was whether or not they would still be able to get pints at £2.50
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 20, 2014, 07:37:27 AM
ok we would all love to have a pub beside us and feel like we owned it because of the amount of pints we drink but if that building owner instead wanted to make the building say a hairdressing salon, is it really any of our business.  People have a right to have a drink surely but it kinda sounds a ridiculous arguement. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 20, 2014, 08:54:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 08:14:05 AM
Quote from: rrhf on March 20, 2014, 07:37:27 AM
ok we would all love to have a pub beside us and feel like we owned it because of the amount of pints we drink but if that building owner instead wanted to make the building say a hairdressing salon, is it really any of our business.  People have a right to have a drink surely but it kinda sounds a ridiculous arguement.
That building owner had every opportunity to remove the social club legally and without any hassle but chose to bully people and in doing so have embroilled themselves in something beyond their control.

You've mentioned this several times now and to me it looks like big Jim, Frankie and Co looking a gift horse in the mouth, but what did they stand to gain from this current course of action?

Is the something else missing?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on March 20, 2014, 09:25:06 AM
Well...while I think the whole process around the new stadium has been a PR disaster, I broadly remain in favour of the development at Casement for a number of reasons that I won't articulate here.

Never mind the county footballers conceding 6-35 to two Div 4 teams, the shambles around the social club must be a new low in the county.  Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.  I agree with hardstation, are these the sort of people we want to manage a high profile £75 million modern stadium??  As an old timer here it pains me to read about members of the McCallin family (and others) being sent what are essentially aggressive threatening demands for payment considering the unquantifiable service they have given to the GAA in Antrim. :'(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on March 20, 2014, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 10:02:42 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 20, 2014, 09:25:06 AM
Well...while I think the whole process around the new stadium has been a PR disaster, I broadly remain in favour of the development at Casement for a number of reasons that I won't articulate here.

Never mind the county footballers conceding 6-35 to two Div 4 teams, the shambles around the social club must be a new low in the county.  Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.  I agree with hardstation, are these the sort of people we want to manage a high profile £75 million modern stadium??  As an old timer here it pains me to read about members of the McCallin family (and others) being sent what are essentially aggressive threatening demands for payment considering the unquantifiable service they have given to the GAA in Antrim. :'(
As you say, the McCallins are just one family being threatened here. Other members of the club, off the top of my head Frank Fitzsimmons, Mickey Darragh, John Crossey, Pearse McFall, Gilly McIlhatton, Roy McLarnon. Think of the years of service those boys have given to Antrim GAA and the GAA as a whole. Gilly invented the GAA ffs. ;D

We are some crowd.

Yes, I mind him telling me he was in Hayes Hotel the day before the rest of them! :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2014, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 20, 2014, 08:54:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 08:14:05 AM
Quote from: rrhf on March 20, 2014, 07:37:27 AM
ok we would all love to have a pub beside us and feel like we owned it because of the amount of pints we drink but if that building owner instead wanted to make the building say a hairdressing salon, is it really any of our business.  People have a right to have a drink surely but it kinda sounds a ridiculous arguement.
That building owner had every opportunity to remove the social club legally and without any hassle but chose to bully people and in doing so have embroilled themselves in something beyond their control.

You've mentioned this several times now and to me it looks like big Jim, Frankie and Co looking a gift horse in the mouth, but what did they stand to gain from this current course of action?

Is the something else missing?

Yes, "re" and an "I'm" in your last sentence :P
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gizzy15 on March 20, 2014, 05:29:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2014, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 20, 2014, 08:54:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 08:14:05 AM
Quote from: rrhf on March 20, 2014, 07:37:27 AM
ok we would all love to have a pub beside us and feel like we owned it because of the amount of pints we drink but if that building owner instead wanted to make the building say a hairdressing salon, is it really any of our business.  People have a right to have a drink surely but it kinda sounds a ridiculous arguement.
That building owner had every opportunity to remove the social club legally and without any hassle but chose to bully people and in doing so have embroilled themselves in something beyond their control.

You've mentioned this several times now and to me it looks like big Jim, Frankie and Co looking a gift horse in the mouth, but what did they stand to gain from this current course of action?

Is the something else missing?

Yes, "re" and an "I'm" in your last sentence :P

Always a cunny funt ready to rip a post to shreds, lol.
What letters did I get mixed up?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 20, 2014, 05:55:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 08:11:45 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 20, 2014, 12:29:10 AM
Am I missing something here. Is this a case thae 300 members of the Casement Social Club are holding this project to ransom?
A brain perhaps? How do you come to that conclusion? Casement Social Club aren't holding it up any longer than Antrim GAA are.

QuoteI find it hard to have any sympathy for them
We know.

Quoteparticularly when some here were making out that they were standing up for the rights of residents who were going to lose evening sunlight ! when, in actual fact, it would appear that the real issue was whether or not they would still be able to get pints at £2.50
Why do you rule out the possibility that both can occur simultaneously? Casement Social Club is a club at the centre of these residents' community and would be frequented by many residents. Therefore many members of the club would either be residents themselves or be friends of residents. It's all up if you can't have sympathy for your own or your mates' plight.
I will view each item as it arises and give my knowledge/opinion of it. If that frustrates you, so be it. It is a discussion board. As far as I can see, the two parties are not against the development but have issues with the proposed development. They are two totally different issues. The residents want the height/capacity reduced. The social club wants to remain throughout the development and beyond. Why does it appear beyond your comprehension to isolate different matters? You have tried to lump La Salle's pitch in with this and social housing at Visteon. Is your world 2d?

It's also interesting that your rhetoric towards 'drinkers' is similar to that of your club mate in an article he penned last year. What is it with people from Silverbridge GAC and alcohol? As has already been pointed out, your club aren't exactly behind the door when it comes to selling alcohol for profit. Why do you demonise others and use it as stick to beat all when you are sucking from the same trough?


Your link to Silverbridge is quite interesting. I don't ever remember any person, speaking on behalf of Silverbridge GFC commenting publicly about drink. But it's also interesting in that a number of posters who are opposed to the Casement proposals are quite prepared, depending on whatever the issue is, to categorise people from Silverbridge, into either the  Rab C Nesbit or Ian Paisley category ( for your information I sit firmly and proudly in the former). You all seem to be prepared to use Silverbridge as a means of getting at a specific  individual. So let's leave Silverbridge out of it, but before we do, let me explain their position.  Silverbridge as a football/community club is thriving,  however the Social Club is dead on its knees. It opens on a Monday, Thursday and Saturday  night and a Sunday evening till about 9.30. With the exception of Thursday when the darts are on, there would be no more than half a dozen punters in the place.. There's nobody going to it. It wasn't even open on St Patrick's Day. Social clubs in rural areas were finished when the licensing laws changed to allow pubs to open on a Sunday night and the drink driving laws were tightened up. It saddens me greatly but such is life. The Club does run a number of specific big fund raisers each year – Nathan Carter etc these attract a much wider audience than our Club and for these the club will have a bar, the bar that caused your friend Drici ( who I know for a fact hates the specific individual referred to above) much consternation some time ago.

So from that backdrop I find it hard to understand why this Social Club is such a big deal. Is it, for instance, as big a deal as the Praxis Mental Health Charity being told to move out of its cafe in Hillsborough Castle?  The Kitchen Bar had to move when Victoria Square was built, did the world end?  But perhaps you can all clarify this by explaining what role does this Club does play in the area and why it should be retained at the expense of the Casement redevelopment project
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2014, 07:04:01 PM
Was Pat Catney not handsomely rewarded for The Kitchen Bar, with the new version later taken over by Botanic Inns?

Praxis' income was 27 million last year - they'll find an alternative.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 20, 2014, 08:56:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 06:42:37 PM
When people come out and throw stones at the practices and people within GAA social clubs, others will take aim and fire back. That is the one and only reason Silverbridge Harps have ever entered this discussion.
No logic to that arguement.  I'm a Catholic so does this mean that every time I speak, I am speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2014, 10:42:17 PM
"@brendanbelfast: If the social club members at Casement are such dedicated Gaels why are they taking legal action which jeopardises the new stadium project?"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 21, 2014, 12:43:52 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2014, 07:04:01 PM
Was Pat Catney not handsomely rewarded for The Kitchen Bar, with the new version later taken over by Botanic Inns?
Indeed.
Exactly, and why not? He owned the place so as the owner he was entitled to do what he wanted with his own property.  Now does the Antrim County Board not own this premises and if so is it not entitled to be able to do what it wants with its own property
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 01:02:32 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 21, 2014, 12:43:52 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 20, 2014, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2014, 07:04:01 PM
Was Pat Catney not handsomely rewarded for The Kitchen Bar, with the new version later taken over by Botanic Inns?
Indeed.
Exactlt, and why not.  He owned the place so as the owner he was entitled to do what he wanted with his own property.  Now does the Antrim County Board not own this premises and if so is it not entitled to be able to do what it wants with its own property

It seems the courts have already given their view on this subject.

Whatever the truth is, it's not doing either side any good and the more it's dragged through courts, newspapers, discussion boards, TV programmes, solicitors' offices etc etc, the more people on all sides become entrenched ( usually ).

Surely there are mediators who can act as honest brokers and resolve this before they tear all apart ?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on March 21, 2014, 07:38:56 AM
QuoteSurely there are mediators who can act as honest brokers and resolve this before they tear all apart ?.

Too late for that I suspect. The lawyers will be the only winners as usual.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 09:30:55 AM
The GAA can behave in strange ways at times. Where do Ulster council fit in here ?

Can they not step in and sort this nasty business out ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 21, 2014, 09:45:32 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 09:30:55 AM
The GAA can behave in strange ways at times. Where do Ulster council fit in here ?

Can they not step in and sort this nasty business out ?
There is a line of thought that the Ulster Council are behind these goings on. I don't believe that myself. The reason being - whatever about Ryan Feeney et al, they do actually have a functioning organ in their heads, unlike Jim Murray & Frankie Quinn. IMO, there is no chance they would have let this develop the way it has.

It must be remembered that had Antrim GAA treated the members of Casement Social Club with a small bit of decency and respect, they were prepared to leave, annoyed but without any hassle. This would have been over long ago. But no, Antrim GAA needed to show these blackguards who was boss and ended up getting people's backs up.

Frankie is Ulster council HS, he just so happens to be Antrim secretary, but his bosses are the Ulster council, not anyone in Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on March 21, 2014, 10:13:46 AM
As I said before on this I cant see JM or FQ going solo on this. They must have the backing of county "board", county committee, trustees possibly, and definitely run this past the Ulster council delegate Ryan Feeney before making such decisions.

I dont pretend to know anything more than the rest of the five eighths, but would expect that there are two sides to this story.

We all have club delegates who I will be surprised if they haven't some sort of clue, or at least must have been appraised as this went through the phases. Would be very surprised if JM/FQ are going back with bills of £100k without some level of support or approval from some source. My hunch is that Ulster council have given them a green light to do what they need to do to get the building freed up from any third party involvement. Time will tell though.....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
Can anyone give a breakdown of the £100k figure that it has cost Antrim CB so far ??

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 11:02:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 21, 2014, 10:17:29 AM
Club delegates had a vote to take Casement Social Club to court over an outstanding bill of £36000. They voted in favour. It is thought that they have been hoodwinked by this and our county executive will tell them that they voted to start legal proceedings which ended up costing.........


I wouldn't blame club delegates. Club delegates were blamed for the strikes in Cork at one time as well, voting routinely according to the way Frank allegedly told them to raise their arms.

It's interesting that the controller in Cork is Frank and in Antrim there's a Frank as well. Coincidence only I'm sure.

But in any case, club delegates can be swayed. It's time this whole thing was opened out and the truth revealed, whatever that truth is.

Someone said there's 2 sides to the story - I'd be certain there's at least 3 sides to the story. Antrim county board want the social club closed in order to facilitate the redevelopment and in using a sledge to crack a nut, have understandably got the backs of the social club members up. It doesn't matter how many pints they have drank or not nor does it matter what price the pints are, there was a protocol that should have been followed in order to close the place down in an orderly fashion. Antrim didnt do that for whatever reason.

They have dug a big hole for themselves and seem intent on digging some more.

The hole is only going to get bigger. The development is going to get delayed. The contractor is going to put in a claim for delay and loss and expense and more good money is being flushed down the drain.

Two wrongs don't make a right and Ulster council and Antrim CB should review the situation, bring new people in to sort it out if necessay but ultimately they should cop themselves on and face the music. You can't tr**p over the top of people. Especially not Belfast people who have had to suffer all down the years with external forces trying to ride roughshod over them. For your own people to try to do this isn't on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on March 21, 2014, 11:15:06 AM
This problem will be repeated or has already been played out in many other GAA centres over the country.

How many club houses or club premises have entered into agreements with other organisations or community groups with a view to securing grants or getting an income stream. Once this changes and someone needs to be moved on, the sh*t hits the fan and verbal promises and all sorts of legal rights are claimed.

I know it has happended in other clubs and caused massive divisions. This seems to be now happening at county level in Antrim. I expect the GAA at provincial level and national will leave it to be sorted before they get involved, may provide guidance in the background.

It'll not be the last either to end this way.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on March 21, 2014, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 11:02:38 AM
It's interesting that the controller in Cork is Frank and in Antrim there's a Frank as well. Coincidence only I'm sure.

both men no relation to the adjective  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 21, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
Can anyone give a breakdown of the £100k figure that it has cost Antrim CB so far ??
I've pmed you there but the two major hits they took came from:

The illegal closure of the club.
Their refusal to pay the redundancy of full time bar staff which saw them taken to an industrial tribunal.

Who employed the bar staff, Antrim county board or the Casement social club?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2014, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 21, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
Can anyone give a breakdown of the £100k figure that it has cost Antrim CB so far ??
I've pmed you there but the two major hits they took came from:

The illegal closure of the club.
Their refusal to pay the redundancy of full time bar staff which saw them taken to an industrial tribunal.

Who employed the bar staff, Antrim county board or the Casement social club?

They are club men, players, ex county players, and current referee also. It's getting uglier by the day
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 12:30:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2014, 12:06:56 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 21, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 21, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
Can anyone give a breakdown of the £100k figure that it has cost Antrim CB so far ??
I've pmed you there but the two major hits they took came from:

The illegal closure of the club.
Their refusal to pay the redundancy of full time bar staff which saw them taken to an industrial tribunal.

Who employed the bar staff, Antrim county board or the Casement social club?

They are club men, players, ex county players, and current referee also. It's getting uglier by the day

That tends to be the nature of these disputes where respective positions become entrenched, then where one side is seen to have a victory of sorts, the other side becomes even more entrenched.

A solution needs sorted if this ugliness is to stop.

What do Ulster council have to say about it if anything ? I wouldn't accept this dispute has nothing to do with them nor can they wash their hands of it and shrug their shoulders. It's time for positive leadership on all sides.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on March 21, 2014, 04:04:08 PM
Evidence of poor foresight and planning and lack of meaningful prior engagement with stakeholders etc. Seems like a case of grab the money,pat ourselves on the back and to hell with the (relatively) small minority this will adversely impact.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 21, 2014, 07:35:49 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 21, 2014, 04:04:08 PM
Evidence of poor foresight and planning and lack of meaningful prior engagement with stakeholders etc. Seems like a case of grab the money,pat ourselves on the back and to hell with the (relatively) small minority this will adversely impact.
The scale of redevelopment was nothing more than a vanity projector day 1. This is down to the vanity and egos of people in Antrim and Ulster being involved in a project way beyond their capabilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 23, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
It was development for the future.  You could have said exactly the same about those who decided on the Croke Park redevelopment.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2014, 04:50:55 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 23, 2014, 01:36:31 PM
It was development for the future.  You could have said exactly the same about those who decided on the Croke Park redevelopment.
Not really. The demand for a high capacity stadium was always evident for Dublin.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Zulu on March 23, 2014, 05:06:15 PM
But you surely wouldn't argue the GAA should have refused this money and not redevelop?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on March 23, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
The gaa should have used this money to fund a smaller stadium with a roof which can be used all year round.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Zulu on March 23, 2014, 05:33:08 PM
I'm no expert but would a roof not be way more expensive? Mind you if the GAA were going to build a roofed 25,000 seater type of stadium within Ulster then it should be in South Ulster so it could be used for qualifier games, national club games etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 23, 2014, 05:44:33 PM
The big mistake was to have it in self pity City. I guarantee you that had some way be found to give the money to redevelop Clones the very same people who are griping about casement would be griping about that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2014, 05:48:16 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 23, 2014, 05:44:33 PM
The big mistake was to have it in self pity City. I guarantee you that had some way be found to give the money to redevelop Clones the very same people who are griping about casement would be griping about that
Would be some stand to cast a shadow over gardens in Andytown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 23, 2014, 07:19:49 PM
A New Build on a greenfield site probbaly would have been the best option, outside of that a 30k stadium would like be sufficent as outside of an ulster final, this stadium will never run to capacity
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on March 23, 2014, 08:00:56 PM
Am I missing something here? Couldn't the GAA have developed a new stadium at the Maze,the site moored originally for the "National Stadium" which would have combined soccer,rugby and GAA,but jettisoned owing to strident opposition from NI's non bigoted soccer supporters.

Why didn't the GAA go for this site for a new stadium instead of trying to redevelop Casement in the middle of a residential area? With access extended off the motorway easily and a train halt constructed fairly easily, it would be handier to reach than Casement ever will be,and also with the development of the remaining H Block could have been turned into a complete Irish cultural hub?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2014, 08:20:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 23, 2014, 08:00:56 PM
Why didn't the GAA go for this site for a new stadium instead of trying to redevelop Casement in the middle of a residential area? With access extended off the motorway easily and a train halt constructed fairly easily, it would be handier to reach than Casement ever will be,and also with the development of the remaining H Block could have been turned into a complete Irish cultural hub?

This would not have been wise. Associating with GAA with H Blocks would have  unnecessarily played to the gallery who would characterise it as something for only one part of society. Having a giant stadium in the middle of nowhere with giant carparks etc used 3 times a year would be even more of white elephant, a veritable Persil elephant.

QuoteThey would have had to spend a fair portion of the money on the land? They just took Casement Park from Antrim GAA for nothing. Handy.

Considering the use Antrim would get of this resource, it wasn't a bad deal for them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Zulu on March 23, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
Antrim won't play in Casement in the future?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2014, 09:05:44 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 23, 2014, 08:34:19 PM
Championship only.

Antrim would barely get 1000 people at league games. They will remain at Creggan & Ballycastle.

Perhaps you should have higher aspirations. Get a team with some spirit, your football U-21s have this anyway, get something going and try and attract a bigger crowd to the comfortable facilities in the new place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 23, 2014, 08:00:56 PM
Why didn't the GAA go for this site for a new stadium instead of trying to redevelop Casement in the middle of a residential area? With access extended off the motorway easily and a train halt constructed fairly easily, it would be handier to reach than Casement ever will be,and also with the development of the remaining H Block could have been turned into a complete Irish cultural hub?
A PR disaster for the GAA to be tied in with the H Blocks. Ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 23, 2014, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 23, 2014, 09:31:11 PM
Wtf? That ain't my quote.
No idea how that happened!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on March 23, 2014, 10:45:01 PM
They should forget about Casement, and put an all-seater stadium in the Athletic Grounds. It's conveniently placed in the middle of Ulster, holds a lot of finals already, and the Ulster Council already hav their offices in Armagh City (don't they?). Makes sense to me. Then, when the railway returns to Armagh (it could happen!) as well, that's another bonus.

If Casement goes ahead, there's going to be ill-feeling in West Belfast for years, and that's not good for the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 23, 2014, 11:03:53 PM
Dunfcukingannon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 23, 2014, 11:18:12 PM
A field. There are loads of fields in outer Dunfcukingannon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 23, 2014, 11:21:07 PM
Does Athletic grounds allegedly not have some wee protest group that light their fires in protest or is that only a story that was put out there ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 23, 2014, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 23, 2014, 11:21:07 PM
Does Athletic grounds allegedly not have some wee protest group that light their fires in protest or is that only a story that was put out there ?
No. The local residents group help with the stewarding at games and in return they are allowed to run a shop in the ground. Profits generated are used for community purposes. An excellent example of a community prepared to help itself
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 23, 2014, 11:43:31 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 23, 2014, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 23, 2014, 11:21:07 PM
Does Athletic grounds allegedly not have some wee protest group that light their fires in protest or is that only a story that was put out there ?
No. The local residents group help with the stewarding at games and in return they are allowed to run a shop in the ground. Profits generated are used for community purposes. An excellent example of a community prepared to help itself


Armagh GAA are in partnership with the local residents group ?

That approach is a far cry from what Antrim GAA are trying to do.

Surely there's a lesson here ?

Or maybe not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 24, 2014, 01:34:51 AM
We've only heard one side of the story here so it's hard to take a view on the Antrim GAA position
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 24, 2014, 09:36:01 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 24, 2014, 01:34:51 AM
We've only heard one side of the story here so it's hard to take a view on the Antrim GAA position

Strange that considering Ryan Feeney was at pains to talk about a transparent process, nothing is transparent in GAA circles.


One thing, one of the main men behind the development of Croke Park was Peter Quinn, at least he knew a thing or two about large project development, not like the well meaning teachers and farmers we have currently in the Ulster council.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 24, 2014, 09:36:01 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 24, 2014, 01:34:51 AM
We've only heard one side of the story here so it's hard to take a view on the Antrim GAA position

Strange that considering Ryan Feeney was at pains to talk about a transparent process, nothing is transparent in GAA circles.


One thing, one of the main men behind the development of Croke Park was Peter Quinn, at least he knew a thing or two about large project development, not like the well meaning teachers and farmers we have currently in the Ulster council.
That was my (poorly written) thoughts a couple of pages ago. You can't allow projects of this scale to be managed by people on the county board and other various hangers on, just because they are on that county board. Yes, you might have an opinion as part of a steering group but let the people who know what they are doing take on the project management of it. It's not the same as attending a dinner and handing out trophies.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 25, 2014, 01:51:52 AM
There will be an entire team of consultants managing this
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 25, 2014, 06:27:30 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 24, 2014, 09:36:01 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 24, 2014, 01:34:51 AM
We've only heard one side of the story here so it's hard to take a view on the Antrim GAA position

Strange that considering Ryan Feeney was at pains to talk about a transparent process, nothing is transparent in GAA circles.


One thing, one of the main men behind the development of Croke Park was Peter Quinn, at least he knew a thing or two about large project development, not like the well meaning teachers and farmers we have currently in the Ulster council.
That was my (poorly written) thoughts a couple of pages ago. You can't allow projects of this scale to be managed by people on the county board and other various hangers on, just because they are on that county board. Yes, you might have an opinion as part of a steering group but let the people who know what they are doing take on the project management of it. It's not the same as attending a dinner and handing out trophies.
Yer balls
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JUst retired on March 25, 2014, 07:24:27 AM
 Reference the Athletic grounds, the residents do not help steward the grounds. This is done by a team of decicated stewards from clubs in Armagh county.Two of the shops are staffed by volunteers,and one shop is on lease.

The lighting of fires is not a protest against any thing it is to warm peoples houses.But if we could get the people to light smokier fires we could wear masks when playing and not give any to our opponents. that way we could maybe win some matches. ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 08:38:33 AM
When the AGM comes round why don't you oppose the current regime and fight from within ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on March 25, 2014, 09:03:09 AM
Not in the business of winding up but on and off the pitch Antrim are bit of a laughing stock at the minute, sad to see with so many true gaels from the County.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2014, 08:40:24 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 08:38:33 AM
When the AGM comes round why don't you oppose the current regime and fight from within ?
Trust me, that's coming and it's not just Casement driving it.

In fact, it could well be the case that our chairman gets fcuked out of his club.

That's a bit extreme.

So the plan is to turf the lads out. Interesting times ahead and should have been considered before but better late than never.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on March 25, 2014, 09:59:25 AM
Can I ask, what was supposed to happen HS?

We can all agree that the whole thing appears to have been handled awfully in whatever event, but from reading this thread it appears to be the case that all the social club were seeking was to be asked to leave nicely, and if this had happened there'd be no issues at all. Is that really true?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 10:14:52 AM
It should name for an interesting AGM or two in December.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 25, 2014, 10:33:42 AM
Quote from: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 10:14:52 AM
It should name for an interesting AGM or two in December.

Can't shift Frankie though!!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: J OGorman on March 25, 2014, 10:48:14 AM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on March 25, 2014, 09:03:09 AM
Not in the business of winding up but on and off the pitch Antrim are bit of a laughing stock at the minute, sad to see with so many true gaels from the County.

from the outside looking in, thats the way it looks Dennis. Too many chiefs and not enough indians as a man might have muttered in the past
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2014, 11:08:57 AM
I see Paddy Heaney telling us that this stadium is not about concerts at all as they are not needed for the stadium to be sustainable. I am assuming that he is privy to the business plan that the residents have been asking for for months but have been refused as it is commercially sensitive? He does go on to tell us, however, that it would be great to get the rugby world cup there.

He mentions the potential of Tyrone v Kerry in an AI Quarter Final........in a 38,000 seater stadium.........in Belfast.
Can anyone really see that happening?

Kerry don't travel to Dublin for semi finals. They'll hardly go to Belfast for a quarter final.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on March 25, 2014, 11:25:47 AM
Dessie Farrell might be interested.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on March 25, 2014, 12:03:21 PM
From what I have been told there are a couple of premium (handy) jobs up for grabs with regard to stadium management positions. A bit of jockeying for position going on.

Ulster Council too quiet on all this for my liking. Got to be sitting in the background controlling the shots.

Spoke to the head of the residents group on Saturday night (I bumped into him at a function) and he had many legitimate and well documented concerns. Well up for the fight too......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on March 25, 2014, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 25, 2014, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 25, 2014, 09:59:25 AM
Can I ask, what was supposed to happen HS?

We can all agree that the whole thing appears to have been handled awfully in whatever event, but from reading this thread it appears to be the case that all the social club were seeking was to be asked to leave nicely, and if this had happened there'd be no issues at all. Is that really true?
Yes. The social club told ACB that they would leave with no issues 2 weeks before they levelled the place. The reply they got was along the lines of "We decide when you leave, not you."
Then they changed the locks.

The reason I ask is because I noticed on another thread you'd said something along the lines of 'the co board wouldnt give them two rooms, so they're hardly going to give them...[money or whatever it was]'.

It seemed to me then perhaps that the social club were looking space in the new place, and there may have been an element of ransom about the affair.

I'll stress the co board have made a b*lls of the whole thing regardless of what was going on, and for what its worth I think efforts should have been made to find space to allow the social club to continue in the new place, but it just seems likely there is a bit more to it than simply that the social club didnt like the way they were told to leave and so dug their heels in. Which doesnt make much sense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on March 25, 2014, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: orangeman on March 25, 2014, 10:14:52 AM
It should name for an interesting AGM or two in December.

Is it true that at the last Agm a question was asked about the social club but was blankly refused a response?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on March 31, 2014, 11:58:44 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 19, 2014, 11:16:37 PM

Why don't they just bulldoze it


Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on March 20, 2014, 12:29:10 AM

it would appear that the real issue was whether or not they would still be able to get pints at £2.50


saved
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: under the bar on April 01, 2014, 12:00:36 AM
Saw a lot of work being done at the M1 side of the ground.  Has the re-development started?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gizzy15 on April 01, 2014, 08:28:57 AM
 ;D ;D ;D 8)
I think "stroked" is the old 90's word that Sums up my post,

That is all
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 01, 2014, 07:37:28 PM
What was the agreement reached? Just missed it on the news earlier.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 01, 2014, 09:55:39 PM
Ta, temp on site bar will be interesting from a health and safety perspective.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
What about the 36k bill?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 01, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2014, 10:07:30 PM
I wouldn't imagine that would be a difficulty. Fitting the new social club into a stadium that is already designed might be though. Possible loss of corporate areas? Who knows?

One thing's for sure, we need a new fly through, ziggy. ;D

That is if it goes ahead at all.

I'm picturing the brand new stadium with two mobile huts in the carpark  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 01, 2014, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2014, 10:16:37 PM
Like McDees.

Increase your chances of scoring at casement..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2014, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2014, 10:13:05 PM
It never existed ffs. Our county board boys made it up.

Sorry, "Not owed anymore".

That is shocking.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Man Marker on April 01, 2014, 11:11:40 PM
Will they be able to pay the new rent that will be levied on the social club. They'll need a decent turn over to make it feasible
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 01, 2014, 11:24:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2014, 10:07:30 PM
I wouldn't imagine that would be a difficulty. Fitting the new social club into a stadium that is already designed might be though. Possible loss of corporate areas? Who knows?

One thing's for sure, we need a new fly through, ziggy. ;D

That is if it goes ahead at all.

I'll bring it up at the next meeting ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on April 01, 2014, 11:35:12 PM
The social club's victory really could be the win that kickstarts Antrim's season.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on April 02, 2014, 12:01:43 AM
Re: Fitting in space for a social club ........take it theyre gonna take her up a level on the mooreland park side?  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on April 02, 2014, 08:26:21 AM
This is good news. Sound lads run the social club.

Just to point out, they'll probably look them to close during games or tighten up on admittance of non-members or something though. I assume the GAA will be renting bar space in the new stadium - it wont help that, having ingrained cheaper competitors taking a slice of the custom. Might be worth becoming a member - how much is it now HS?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on April 02, 2014, 08:30:35 AM
Great to see that common sense has prevailed here and that Antrim GAA and the social club have settled their clear differences. This has saved a lot of potential embarrassment not to mention a huge bill for costs from a lot of sources.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 02, 2014, 10:36:41 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2014, 09:37:01 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on April 02, 2014, 08:26:21 AM
This is good news. Sound lads run the social club.

Just to point out, they'll probably look them to close during games or tighten up on admittance of non-members or something though. I assume the GAA will be renting bar space in the new stadium - it wont help that, having ingrained cheaper competitors taking a slice of the custom. Might be worth becoming a member - how much is it now HS?
£10 for new membership, £8 for renewals as far as I remember.
Yeah, I imagine it will be members only on match days.

Surely you'd sign me in on match day, eh HS!!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on April 02, 2014, 10:37:31 AM
Maybe a stupid question but do members have to pay into games?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 02, 2014, 11:57:50 AM
I tried to get into the old Social Club once. It wasn't accessible by wheelchair. I'll be putting this on the top of my to-do list for the new club.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 02, 2014, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2014, 12:02:04 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 02, 2014, 11:57:50 AM
I tried to get into the old Social Club once. It wasn't accessible by wheelchair. I'll be putting this on the top of my to-do list for the new club.
Really? I've seen a number of people in there in wheelchairs.

Really? Ah well, maybe I was using the wrong entrance  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 02, 2014, 12:38:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2014, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 02, 2014, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2014, 12:02:04 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 02, 2014, 11:57:50 AM
I tried to get into the old Social Club once. It wasn't accessible by wheelchair. I'll be putting this on the top of my to-do list for the new club.
Really? I've seen a number of people in there in wheelchairs.

Really? Ah well, maybe I was using the wrong entrance  ;D
Yeah, one of the regulars is a wheelchair user.

There are two entrances and yes, one has steps but the other shouldn't be any hinderance.

Yeah, it was the one with steps I was at, back in 2005. Ah well, the clubmen were more than great though. We're going to help me into the place, but I decided to just head home and get a pint in Eddie's.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on April 13, 2014, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 13, 2014, 09:36:00 PM
Why can't you leave well enough alone??

This is not the GAA that I'm a member of and have donated my time and money to.

A deal is a deal.

Come on, Peter Quinn, you made the deal.......

This is like a teenage girls update on Facebook (so I'm told)

You just want somebody to ask, so here goes, are you ok Hun, do you want to talk about it?
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 02:02:38 AM
Fascinating stuff now with the new letter just arrived on Friday late on to make it too late to take legal action before courts close for two weeks for the Easter Holidays.
Casement GAA Social Club have to be out on the street before or by the 14th of April.
Who authorised this letter?
Who in Ulster supports the sending of this letter?
Can anyone in Ulster bring to task those who instructed the letter to be sent?
Those who instructed this perceived as threatening letter to be sent should get in contact with the Ballinascreen boys as to the reality of demolition.
People are sound - People are good - Do not attempt at any time to threaten them in any way.
Title: Faoi Gheall
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 02:33:43 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Divis_Street_Murals,_Belfast,_May_2011_(07).JPG)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on April 14, 2014, 09:37:21 AM
The madness continues.see bbc in website.


Casement Park: Social club members in 'round the clock' protest

A poster at Casement Park Social Club indicates a sit-in is taking place


The social club is within the grounds of the Gaelic Athletic Association's Casement Park stadium, which is in the process of a major redevelopment.

Social club members said the GAA Antrim County Board had given them until Monday to leave the premises.

However, some members began a 24-hour "sit-in" protest on Sunday evening.

In a statement, the social club said that since 28 March when an agreement was signed, the club had heard nothing from either the Ulster GAA Council or the Casement Park project board about provision of its alternative premises.

It said their legal representative contacted the club's solicitor by fax on Friday "one hour and 15 minutes before the court adjourned for the Easter break".

It said they were "demanding that Casement Social Club vacate their premises in Casement Park" on or before Monday 14 April.

The club said: "Under no circumstances will the Casement Social Club (CSC) premises be vacated on Monday morning April 14 and the CSC premises will not be vacated until such time as suitable replacement facilities are in place and until such time as the heads of agreement have been progressed to a detailed final agreement.

"As and from midnight on Sunday 13 April 2014, the members of Casement Social Club will protect their club by occupying their premises in Casement Park on a 24-hour basis to prevent any demolition of its premises from taking place."

"All available CSC members have been requested to sign up for rotational shifts."
Title: Ráiteas
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 01:53:29 PM
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74219000/jpg/_74219668_casement.jpg)

Heard local shops sent in breakfast and food this morning.
Title: Cruinniu
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 13, 2014, 09:36:00 PM

Come on, Peter Quinn, you made the deal.......


Looks like he heard you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermGael on April 14, 2014, 02:26:27 PM
The Antirm County Board make the Fermanagh county board look professional.
That is some achievement
Title: Re: Cruinniu
Post by: johnneycool on April 14, 2014, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: drici on April 14, 2014, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 13, 2014, 09:36:00 PM

Come on, Peter Quinn, you made the deal.......


Looks like he heard you.

Why what has he said/done?
Title: Cruinniu
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 14, 2014, 02:57:14 PM
Quote from: drici on April 14, 2014, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 13, 2014, 09:36:00 PM

Come on, Peter Quinn, you made the deal.......


Looks like he heard you.

Why what has he said/done?

Meeting with the Club members.
Title: Deireadh
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 04:23:52 PM
Resolved.

Hopefully for good this time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 14, 2014, 04:37:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2014, 04:34:39 PM
Excellent. I think it's time a couple of individuals were cut loose by the GAA. The monkeys are making the organ grinders look foolish.

The organ grinders need a couple of local monkeys to do their bidding though!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on April 14, 2014, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 14, 2014, 04:34:39 PM
Excellent. I think it's time a couple of individuals were cut loose by the GAA. The monkeys are making the organ grinders look foolish.

My first reaction to this latest story: Hmmm. Yes. Drink is an important part of the GAA and GAA culture and it needs to respect the barflies.

My second considered reaction to this latest story: Drink is an important part of the GAA and GAA culture and it needs to respect the barflies.
Title: Bainis
Post by: drici on April 14, 2014, 07:56:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlM5RFwCYAEWI7C.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2014, 07:58:07 PM
Quinn should have sent his young lad, a good man to do a deal and one very much in favour of moving Ulster finals from Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermGael on April 14, 2014, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2014, 07:58:07 PM
Quinn should have sent his young lad, a good man to do a deal and one very much in favour of moving Ulster finals from Clones.

Lol. Will you stop
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on April 14, 2014, 10:54:14 PM
Peace returns.



Title: Beir Bua
Post by: drici on April 16, 2014, 12:43:20 AM
This is getting a bit like Cas Ceirnín on the radio from 1-20pm to 2-00pm on a Saturday with Séan Ó Duibhir before the sports show starts.

But got a text earlier from the Casey ones to give a big 'Scairt Amach' to the Craobh Rua, Camloch Hurlers who went out of their road to weigh into the Club and give support to the best GAA Social Club in Ireland on Monday when things were looking dark.

Maith sibh!

Craobh Rua Abú

Camloch Abú

Árd Macha Abú

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on April 22, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2014, 07:58:07 PM
Quinn should have sent his young lad, a good man to do a deal and one very much in favour of moving Ulster finals from Clones.

That post is right on the border.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 28, 2014, 11:43:41 AM
Not much coverage on this, I'd have thought it was more threatening to the new stadium than the social club side show.

Group seek judicial review over Casement http://www.u.tv/Sport/Group-seek-judicial-review-over-Casement/61935990-c306-4c84-932f-96d4fbaa14f9 (http://www.u.tv/Sport/Group-seek-judicial-review-over-Casement/61935990-c306-4c84-932f-96d4fbaa14f9)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 31, 2014, 12:03:30 AM
Jarlath Burns reckons the residents are now "broadly" behind the new Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2014, 12:32:48 AM
Andytown residents are behind Casement, sheltered in its shadow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on May 31, 2014, 04:45:38 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 31, 2014, 12:03:30 AM
Jarlath Burns reckons the residents are now "broadly" behind the new Casement.

That's brilliant news. Hopefully the construction phase can now get going and create all the employment and boost to the local economy promised.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on May 31, 2014, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 31, 2014, 12:03:30 AM
Jarlath Burns reckons the residents are now "broadly" behind the new Casement.
What has changed?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 01, 2014, 06:38:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 01, 2014, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 31, 2014, 12:03:30 AM
Jarlath Burns reckons the residents are now "broadly" behind the new Casement.
Hmm, not sure where he heard that. It certainly flys in the face of what I've been hearing.
It must have come from somewhere though. Strange.
I'd imagine it came from the p.r. section of the ulster council. Then again Jarlath has been one of the main advocates of this project all along.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2014, 07:22:10 PM
With the new look high scoring Antrim surging through the Ulster championship, the advantages of them having their subsequent games at home will become increasingly apparent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on June 02, 2014, 10:30:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2014, 07:22:10 PM
With the new look high scoring Antrim surging through the Ulster championship, the advantages of them having their subsequent games at home will become increasingly apparent.

In 5 years time people will be starting threads about the unfair advantage Antrim have, allowing them to financially dominate the rest of Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 06, 2014, 08:13:15 PM
Interesting article here

http://belfastmediagroup.com/we-might-be-in-for-croke-park-mark-2/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on July 11, 2014, 07:08:02 PM
See Antrim have moved their office now.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsRRToNIMAEUBzH.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on July 11, 2014, 11:56:26 PM
Here is a photo I took a few years ago  (maybe about six) of this one at Portadown.  To think they are funded for this ..lol. I wouldnt mind only they took my flag as well./Users/admin/Desktop/Library - 1831.jpg
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on July 11, 2014, 11:58:21 PM
 why the feck won't it upload???
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on July 12, 2014, 12:14:15 AM
Quote from: rionach 4 on July 11, 2014, 11:58:21 PM
why the feck won't it upload???

Because you don't know what you're doing...:-P
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on July 12, 2014, 12:34:13 AM
you are spot on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on July 12, 2014, 12:34:59 AM
help needed lol  to much beer
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on July 13, 2014, 12:11:10 PM
(//)/Users/admin/Desktop/Library - 1831.jpg
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2014, 12:24:10 PM
Quote from: rionach 4 on July 13, 2014, 12:11:10 PM
(//)/Users/admin/Desktop/Library - 1831.jpg

That must have been some amount of beer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on July 21, 2014, 01:51:33 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM

As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!



Quote

Sky News 'apologises profusely' after reporter goes through victim's luggage

THE broadcaster Sky News has "apologised profusely" after one of its reporters went through the luggage of a victim of the MH17 plane crash while live on air.

The reporter Colin Brazier said "We shouldn't really be doing this, I suppose."





http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/mh17-sky-news-apologises-profusely-after-reporter-goes-through-victims-luggage-30445658.html#sthash.eZlc0rim.dpuf


Hmmmmm........... great choices for this life between Sky and their GAA partners.
Title: Balla
Post by: drici on August 05, 2014, 12:29:44 AM
129 feet 8 inch structure at the back of your house because there is money to be made.
Can't let pay per view subscribers acknowledge mass slaughter of real people because they give us money.

What a sick twisted world some have grasped.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 12, 2014, 01:36:04 AM
Brilliant tarmacadem new path in the interim put in place for what will be the old Club.

Great to meet with and listen to and question and converse with Peter Quinn and also Damien Herron the contractor on plans for the permanent and indeed the temporary new premises.

The Neanderthals of this Province whether they put their views concerning the Club in print(no doubt as mercenaries they received payment for their ill-thought, anti community. capitalistic and misconstrued views) or used this Board as a method of instrumenting their inability to communicate with and understand the real GAA people of Ireland have failed terribly and terminally.

GAA and Casement Social Club Abú.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on September 04, 2014, 12:23:16 AM
Has work started yet?  I took a drive up there today and there doesn't seem to be much happening
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2014, 12:41:42 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on September 04, 2014, 12:23:16 AM
Has work started yet?  I took a drive up there today and there doesn't seem to be much happening

That's Antrim for you.
Title: Tús
Post by: drici on September 10, 2014, 01:55:08 AM
Now we are going to bang it it down your throats that you have us in court today but we are the masters with friends in higher places than youse and we want your light for profit and money only and your future is darkness for our wants although we do not need.
A fortune is being paid to non GAA interested court type people to subjugate the people of Andytown and beyond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xSz3lUnTU8
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 10, 2014, 10:23:49 AM
JR today ?

Whatever happened the apparently concessionary language and the about turn from Ulster council a while back or was that just rope a dope stuff and a pike of lies ?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 10, 2014, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2014, 10:23:49 AM
JR today ?

Whatever happened the apparently concessionary language and the about turn from Ulster council a while back or was that just rope a dope stuff and a pike of lies ?.

This is so fecking embarrassing. Windsor started Ravenhill completed Casement Park?????? Laughing stock
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sam03/05 on September 10, 2014, 06:04:51 PM
Time to pull the plug on these useless Antrim bastards, and build the stadium somewhere else in Ulster. If they don't want the economic boost that a stadium will bring, then let them go to f**k!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 10, 2014, 06:28:04 PM
That money could have built 3 bridges at Narrow water.

I say forget about it and increase the Athletic Grounds. It's as close to halfway in Ulster as you'll probably get.
Title: Re: Tús
Post by: Nigel White on September 10, 2014, 10:17:24 PM
Quote from: drici on September 10, 2014, 01:55:08 AM
Now we are going to bang it it down your throats that you have us in court today but we are the masters with friends in higher places than youse and we want your light for profit and money only and your future is darkness for our wants although we do not need.
A fortune is being paid to non GAA interested court type people to subjugate the people of Andytown and beyond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xSz3lUnTU8
Plain English please. I haven't a clue what you're on about
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 11, 2014, 09:16:41 AM
Meanwhile in Cork ........

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/residents-withdraw-stadium-concerns-after-deal-with-gaa-30578622.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: naka on September 11, 2014, 09:50:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 10, 2014, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2014, 10:23:49 AM
JR today ?

Whatever happened the apparently concessionary language and the about turn from Ulster council a while back or was that just rope a dope stuff and a pike of lies ?.

This is so fecking embarrassing. Windsor started Ravenhill completed Casement Park?????? Laughing stock
actually think we should move on from casement

omagh or Armagh even parc esler should get the money spent on it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 11, 2014, 09:54:10 AM
Quote from: naka on September 11, 2014, 09:50:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 10, 2014, 12:26:27 PM
Quote from: orangeman on September 10, 2014, 10:23:49 AM
JR today ?

Whatever happened the apparently concessionary language and the about turn from Ulster council a while back or was that just rope a dope stuff and a pike of lies ?.

This is so fecking embarrassing. Windsor started Ravenhill completed Casement Park?????? Laughing stock
actually think we should move on from casement

omagh or Armagh even parc esler should get the money spent on it

That's NEVER going to happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NaomhBridAbú on September 11, 2014, 02:06:21 PM
This has been a mess.

I remember reading in a piece by J Burns in the Gaelic Life about 6 months ago where he wrote about a lack of "sunlight" being a small price to pay for a great stadium - easy seeing that Jarlath doesn't life so close to the stadium.

MORA had been denied the oxygen of publicity in the Irish News...they have yet to run the story from the angle of the locals. Casement has a serious number of heavyweight PR people involved  and on the GAA side and it is still a mess.

I'm not even sure that the proposed stadium has sufficient exits from a health and safety perspective...

Ulster GAA need to get there act together here...this alongside the Brooks fiasco, and the Penn State game, you'd get the impression thats one of the folk in HQ don't really know what they are at...?

thankfully the boys on the pitch are giving us a pleasant distraction...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 11, 2014, 05:54:46 PM
bbc ni

Building a new 38,000-seater GAA stadium that visually integrates within its west Belfast neighbourhood is impossible, a court has been told.

Lawyers for a residents group opposing the Casement Park redevelopment said landscape architects backed concerns about homes being plunged into shadow.

A judge was also told the planning process for the £76m project was "rushed through".

The new stadium is to be built on the existing site.

Funded by the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure, it is to include fully modern facilities and corporate resources.

However, the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association (MORA) claim the proposed ground is simply too big for the area.

They argue that a stadium of that magnitude will block out light, reduce the quality of life for those living close by and compound traffic congestion.

It is further alleged that planning chiefs failed to properly assess the new Casement Park as a mixed-use facility also capable of holding concerts and other public events.

Further issues dealing with Japanese knotweed and asbestos have also been raised.

'Dominant and overbearing'
On a second day of the legal challenge to Environment Minister Mark H Durkan's decision last December to approve rebuilding the stadium, counsel for MORA told the High Court landscape architects had been critical of the "dominant and overbearing" scale of the scheme.

Referring to their conclusions David Scoffield QC said: "It's impossible to put a modern stadium such as the GAA want onto this site which visually integrates with the existing environment. It cannot be done."

Mr Justice Horner heard claims that the proposed new ground would impact on residents' privacy and restrict light. Some nearby dwellers would have their gardens partially in shadow by mid-afternoon, the court heard.

Although the residents group are seeking to halt the 38,000-seater project, they are not opposed to rebuilding on a smaller scale.

But Mr Scoffield claimed Roads Service staff were being urged to sign off the plans before his clients had a chance to assess and submit objections.

Contending there was a six-month deadline for completion of the planning application, he said: "Everyone is saying let's grant permission, we will have a further assessment down the line and see what happens as we go."

The barrister also said it was irrelevant if some of his client's homes had been built after Casement Park was first constructed.

"It's not a case of 'we were here first so we can do what we want'," he added.

The hearing resumes on Monday when Department of the Environment lawyers are expected to outline their case.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 11, 2014, 06:11:09 PM
Is that free counsel MORA get? some money if it's not and probably drag on a bit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 11, 2014, 06:17:30 PM
QuoteBuilding a new 38,000-seater GAA stadium that visually integrates within its west Belfast neighbourhood is impossible, a court has been told.

Easy solution for this one. Clear away the west Belfast neighbourhood.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 11, 2014, 06:34:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 11, 2014, 06:11:09 PM
Is that free counsel MORA get? some money if it's not and probably drag on a bit

Is Ulster council counsel free ?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 11, 2014, 07:00:55 PM
Quote from: orangeman on September 11, 2014, 06:34:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 11, 2014, 06:11:09 PM
Is that free counsel MORA get? some money if it's not and probably drag on a bit

Is Ulster council counsel free ?.

I suppose not, what a fecking mess
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on September 25, 2014, 11:44:18 PM
I see the Westies are now kicking up over a proposed new Council financed 3G pitch in Falls Park. If it was me I wouldn't invest a penny anywhere in the area because that's really the way they want it. Happier with nothing because it allows them to be happy complaining about how unhappy they are
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on September 26, 2014, 08:49:36 AM
Where & when was the meeting HS? Was it another attempt at reaching agreement?

The lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank the longer the JR goes on. If MORA don't win & get awarded costs who will pay?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 26, 2014, 09:18:51 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 26, 2014, 08:16:28 AM
No idea what went on in the meeting but I believe it descended into chaos.

Reports that GAA people were answering concerns with "Shut up". Now, although I appreciate that that is an improvement on the "Fcuk up" that our esteemed County Chairman answered questions with at a meeting with Casement Social Club members, why is it that some in power in the GAA are unable to conduct themselves with a small bit of decorum at meetings. If you don't know the answer to the question, say you don't and tell the person you will endeavour to get an answer to the question.

In fairness, I have spoke to a number of people in attendence who said that anyone who spoke in favour of the new pitch were shouted down by local residents, who only wanted themselves to be heard.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Denn Forever on September 30, 2014, 12:40:02 PM
Clearer and clearer

ww.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-29419644?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook?SThisFB
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on October 03, 2014, 12:25:06 AM
There's some lies and mistruths being told in court as past number of days.

The costs associated with the ongoing delays are mounting. What a shambles.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29467331
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2014, 06:05:08 PM
Whole thing is daft.


1. Tear down old stand. Replace with something fit for purpose.

2. Put a roof over the centre section of terracing opposite the stand.


That means people that want to sit can watch matches all year round and not get soaked, people that want to stand can watch matches all year round and not get soaked and in the summer time the uncovered banks can be used to augment the capacity in the one or two occasions they might actually be needed.

The saved money could then be used to buy some ground in around Belfast for more pitches and green areas so kids and teenagers aren't hanging around streets with f__k all to do.


This white elephant is a complete joke.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: PAULD123 on October 09, 2014, 08:11:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2014, 06:05:08 PM
Whole thing is daft.


1. Tear down old stand. Replace with something fit for purpose.

2. Put a roof over the centre section of terracing opposite the stand.


That means people that want to sit can watch matches all year round and not get soaked, people that want to stand can watch matches all year round and not get soaked and in the summer time the uncovered banks can be used to augment the capacity in the one or two occasions they might actually be needed.

The saved money could then be used to buy some ground in around Belfast for more pitches and green areas so kids and teenagers aren't hanging around streets with f__k all to do.


This white elephant is a complete joke.

I think that this is an excellent post. The whole idea is arrogant and a needless waste. As RGaGa says a nice shiny new stand and covered terrace will fulfil the requirements adequately.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on October 10, 2014, 12:36:15 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29554535

Every week great goes past costs £60k. Increased costs to date are sitting @ £2.7m.

Somebody somewhere should be made to account for this mess.

But I'm sure no one will man up - There are rights and wrongs on both sides but how this got planning without all the studies being done is mind blowing. This will cost some £ before any more work is done in site.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 10, 2014, 09:56:11 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on October 09, 2014, 08:11:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2014, 06:05:08 PM
Whole thing is daft.


1. Tear down old stand. Replace with something fit for purpose.

2. Put a roof over the centre section of terracing opposite the stand.


That means people that want to sit can watch matches all year round and not get soaked, people that want to stand can watch matches all year round and not get soaked and in the summer time the uncovered banks can be used to augment the capacity in the one or two occasions they might actually be needed.

The saved money could then be used to buy some ground in around Belfast for more pitches and green areas so kids and teenagers aren't hanging around streets with f__k all to do.


This white elephant is a complete joke.

I think that this is an excellent post. The whole idea is arrogant and a needless waste. As RGaGa says a nice shiny new stand and covered terrace will fulfil the requirements adequately.

Whilst the idea of a more modest, fit for purpose stadium smacks of common sense to everyone but the Ulster Council, the fact remains that whatever money made available via Stormont is for the sole development of a stadium, it cannot be diverted/siphoned off to buy or develop facilities elsewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 10, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: johnneycool link=topic=17587.msg1409314#msg1409314
Whilst the idea of a more modest, fit for purpose stadium smacks of common sense to everyone but the Ulster Council, the fact remains that whatever money made available via Stormont is for the sole development of a stadium, it cannot be diverted/siphoned off to buy or develop facilities elsewhere.

Fine, then take it back to stormont and employ a few nurses/add hospital beds with the money instead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 10, 2014, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 10, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: johnneycool link=topic=17587.msg1409314#msg1409314
Whilst the idea of a more modest, fit for purpose stadium smacks of common sense to everyone but the Ulster Council, the fact remains that whatever money made available via Stormont is for the sole development of a stadium, it cannot be diverted/siphoned off to buy or develop facilities elsewhere.

Fine, then take it back to stormont and employ a few nurses/add hospital beds with the money instead.

or just build a stadium fit for purpose, eh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on October 10, 2014, 03:08:02 PM
How longs the judicial review expected to last?

Are the residents confident of it going in their favour HS?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 10, 2014, 03:09:18 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 10, 2014, 02:50:54 PM
or just build a stadium fit for purpose, eh?

Could easily do both with the cost figures they are throwing around.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 08:47:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 10, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: johnneycool link=topic=17587.msg1409314#msg1409314
Whilst the idea of a more modest, fit for purpose stadium smacks of common sense to everyone but the Ulster Council, the fact remains that whatever money made available via Stormont is for the sole development of a stadium, it cannot be diverted/siphoned off to buy or develop facilities elsewhere.

Fine, then take it back to stormont and employ a few nurses/add hospital beds with the money instead.
It's capital money, so can't be used for such costs. My understanding is that it is actually ringfenced, and if it's not used to build a stadium by a certain date, it's lost back to London.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 12, 2014, 09:04:02 PM
There's 60 mill of the 100 mill loan paid back already ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 09:39:40 PM
Was at Ravenhill on Sat and couldn't help thinking about he Casement debacle.A wee bit bigger than Ravenhill would be perfect. Casement at this stage is a pure vanity project. Arseholes in Antrim and Derrymen in Ulster with wee man syndrome can't help themselves.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 09:39:40 PM
Was at Ravenhill on Sat and couldn't help thinking about he Casement debacle.A wee bit bigger than Ravenhill would be perfect. Casement at this stage is a pure vanity project. Arseholes in Antrim and Derrymen in Ulster with wee man syndrome can't help themselves.
If they reduced the size, it could be an amazing stadium with the same money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 09:39:40 PM
Was at Ravenhill on Sat and couldn't help thinking about he Casement debacle.A wee bit bigger than Ravenhill would be perfect. Casement at this stage is a pure vanity project. Arseholes in Antrim and Derrymen in Ulster with wee man syndrome can't help themselves.
If they reduced the size, it could be an amazing stadium with the same money.
Size reduction is the right think for Antrim and Ulster GAA as well as the local residents. Obviously you build it so there are tumbleweeds blowing through the stands 90% of the time.  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 13, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 09:39:40 PM
Was at Ravenhill on Sat and couldn't help thinking about he Casement debacle.A wee bit bigger than Ravenhill would be perfect. Casement at this stage is a pure vanity project. Arseholes in Antrim and Derrymen in Ulster with wee man syndrome can't help themselves.
If they reduced the size, it could be an amazing stadium with the same money.
Size reduction is the right think for Antrim and Ulster GAA as well as the local residents. Obviously you build it so there are tumbleweeds blowing through the stands 90% of the time.  ::)

Its got nothing to do with Antrim now Tony, you've signed over the rights to the Ulster Council so don't be expecting access for anything other than a county final from now on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2014, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 13, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 12, 2014, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2014, 09:39:40 PM
Was at Ravenhill on Sat and couldn't help thinking about he Casement debacle.A wee bit bigger than Ravenhill would be perfect. Casement at this stage is a pure vanity project. Arseholes in Antrim and Derrymen in Ulster with wee man syndrome can't help themselves.
If they reduced the size, it could be an amazing stadium with the same money.
Size reduction is the right think for Antrim and Ulster GAA as well as the local residents. Obviously you build it so there are tumbleweeds blowing through the stands 90% of the time.  ::)

Its got nothing to do with Antrim now Tony, you've signed over the rights to the Ulster Council so don't be expecting access for anything other than a county final from now on.
That is a good point. Luckily the CB made a fortune out of handing over the rights, money that can be channelled back into grassroots in Antrim  :-[
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 13, 2014, 02:01:05 PM
 a reduced casement wouldnt be used for an ulster final then so whats the point.
i have no input into the size or the residents concerns, but if it isnt big enough to be the showpiece for the ulster final then the GAA need to save the 17 million they were inputting to it and re vamp Clones
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on October 13, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Bring it to Dungannon.  Perfect satelite to Belfast and by God we love our concerts...(G Brooks etc)
;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 13, 2014, 06:37:45 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 13, 2014, 02:01:05 PMi have no input into the size or the residents concerns, but if it isnt big enough to be the showpiece for the ulster final then the GAA need to save the 17 million they were inputting to it and re vamp Clones

Didn't Dougal say that in Father Ted?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 13, 2014, 07:28:12 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on October 13, 2014, 02:01:05 PM
a reduced casement wouldnt be used for an ulster final then so whats the point.
i have no input into the size or the residents concerns, but if it isnt big enough to be the showpiece for the ulster final then the GAA need to save the 17 million they were inputting to it and re vamp Clones
They could do that. And still use the public money for a smaller but first class stadium at Casement. Because regardless of the current debate, if Casement was never to host an Ulster Final in future, it still needs an overhaul to bring it up to modern standards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on October 14, 2014, 12:49:08 AM
Certainly a no smoke without fire case.

QuoteThe GAA's barrister claimed there was evidence that match crowds in the past have topped 50,000.

No mention of back paying tax on this since it was obviously dangerous and therefore illegal to allow so many into the grounds on that/these days if it ever happened.

What is going on?

To say in a court that we broke crowd safety rules in the past and therefore endangered lives and obviously not paid the relevant entertainment tax during a claim to enhance a stadium from 32,000 to 38.000 when no one can remember any such crowd being in Casement in the last 22 years is acceptable?

What are the upper echelons of the GAA at?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 04, 2014, 09:42:36 PM
I wish they would get on with this. The bill for losses incurred by the contractor will run into millions and there's the small matter of the Rugby World Cup as well to consider in addition to a few big soccer games and the odd wee concert:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ireland-set-to-unveil-rugby-world-cup-2023-bid-1.2025911
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 04, 2014, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: orangeman on December 04, 2014, 09:42:36 PM
I wish they would get on with this. The bill for losses incurred by the contractor will run into millions and there's the small matter of the Rugby World Cup as well to consider in addition to a few big soccer games and the odd wee concert:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ireland-set-to-unveil-rugby-world-cup-2023-bid-1.2025911

fcuk'em
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 09, 2014, 12:12:22 PM
Hugo MacNeill, the chairman of Ireland's bid to host the 2023 World Cup, said last week that a redeveloped Casement is "absolutely crucial" to their plans to secure the event.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 09, 2014, 01:41:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 09, 2014, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: orangeman on December 09, 2014, 12:12:22 PM
Hugo MacNeill, the chairman of Ireland's bid to host the 2023 World Cup, said last week that a redeveloped Casement is "absolutely crucial" to their plans to secure the event.
Game changer.

We need this to happen.
Sure haven't the people of West Belfast been crying out for a rugby world cup for years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 09, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
Antrim gaa is fucked if this stadium goes to Dungannon. From a Dungannon perspective  they have a mighty hurling club and an enthusiastic  football team that has went from junior to senior in 2 years. Proud gaa town..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 10, 2014, 08:46:15 AM
20-25k with a roof??

Used all year round
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 10:50:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 10, 2014, 08:46:15 AM
20-25k with a roof??

Used all year round

This, combined with some upgrade of Clones where big summer games with 20k+ still be held, would be an admirable solution. A roofed stadium would get a good income from concerts etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 10, 2014, 01:00:36 PM
Where does Dungannon come into this?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2014, 01:00:36 PM
Where does Dungannon come into this?

Dungannon is the centre of Ulster, if you use a population weighted basis.
I once did a logistics analysis which showed that the optimum place for the depot to be located to serve Ulster (All ireland company with other depots) was at the end of the M1.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NaomhBridAbú on December 10, 2014, 02:53:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2014, 01:00:36 PM
Where does Dungannon come into this?

Dungannon is the centre of Ulster, if you use a population weighted basis.
I once did a logistics analysis which showed that the optimum place for the depot to be located to serve Ulster (All ireland company with other depots) was at the end of the M1.

that would make sense...until you get to O'Neill park, or rather try and get out of it!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 11, 2014, 11:52:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 10, 2014, 01:00:36 PM
Where does Dungannon come into this?

Dungannon is the centre of Ulster, if you use a population weighted basis.
I once did a logistics analysis which showed that the optimum place for the depot to be located to serve Ulster (All ireland company with other depots) was at the end of the M1.

Casement is at the end of the M1.

;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 11, 2014, 12:38:47 PM
Davitt Park in Lurgan would be ideal...it's 1 mile from the M1 and 1 mile from a major train station. The land is there for the development. It's only 25 mins from Belfast and is as central as you'll get. It's not in the middle of a housing estate like Dungannon and would be the most sensible location if it was ever up for debate...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 11, 2014, 01:12:49 PM
Should Casement Park be renamed? Nelson McCausland seems to think so.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 11, 2014, 02:10:17 PM
No doubt the naming rights will be sold to a sponsor anyway so it will probably be called the 'Hoppy Dobbins Arena' or 'Noel Grimley Stadium'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 12, 2014, 12:03:08 AM
Quote from: illdecide on December 11, 2014, 12:38:47 PM
Davitt Park in Lurgan would be ideal...it's 1 mile from the M1 and 1 mile from a major train station. The land is there for the development. It's only 25 mins from Belfast and is as central as you'll get. It's not in the middle of a housing estate like Dungannon and would be the most sensible location if it was ever up for debate...

It would be stolen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 11, 2014, 02:10:17 PM
No doubt the naming rights will be sold to a sponsor anyway so it will probably be called the 'Hoppy Dobbins Arena' or 'Noel Grimley Stadium'

If we all chip in a few quid, we could call it Pairc Gaaboard.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 12, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
In dungannon we believe. Ill ask a question now to anyone in ulster when was the last time ye spent more than 5 minutes in Lurgan.  I'm only looking for 5 minutes.  Casement park Lurgan sounds shite.  A town with a few rotten apples around it..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 12, 2014, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: rrhf on December 12, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
In dungannon we believe. Ill ask a question now to anyone in ulster when was the last time ye spent more than 5 minutes in Lurgan.  I'm only looking for 5 minutes.  Casement park Lurgan sounds shite.  A town with a few rotten apples around it..

I agree that Lurgan does not have a good name for itself around but I can assure you it's no worse than Dungannon or any other town for that matter, we all have our plonkers. On a serious note I've played in Dungannon's pitch and its a nightmare to get into for a club match let alone if there was a crowd there for a County match. There's nothing going for it at all except the pitch dimensions. Davitt Park is ideal for the infrastructure alone and it's actually in a nice part of Lurgan (if one exists ;)). But we are all wasting out time and effort here as the funding is/was for Casement Park/Belfast and will not be going to any other ground outside of the City...FACT!!! Its Casement Park or nothing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 12, 2014, 11:10:18 AM
The topography is a problem in Dungannon. O'Neill Park is on a hill. Too much walking, poor for car parks etc.

I still reckon increase Armagh if Casement is scrapped.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 11:33:19 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 12, 2014, 11:10:18 AM
The topography is a problem in Dungannon. O'Neill Park is on a hill. Too much walking, poor for car parks etc.

I still reckon increase Armagh if Casement is scrapped.

If Casement is abolished they should not try again with an existing cramped location and face into the whole thing again, expanding the Athletic grounds in Armagh is certainly infeasible. If the likes of Dungannon is chosen then a new site would best, but God knows how long that would take.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2014, 11:35:35 AM
Is Musgrave park totally out of the question?? I assume the cost to buy the land is too high?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 12, 2014, 12:01:25 PM
Ive a good idea...what about the Maze for a new location :P
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2014, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 12, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
In dungannon we believe. Ill ask a question now to anyone in ulster when was the last time ye spent more than 5 minutes in Lurgan.  I'm only looking for 5 minutes.  Casement park Lurgan sounds shite.  A town with a few rotten apples around it..

So Antrim would have to play their home games in either Lurgan (shit hole number 1) or Dungannon (shit hole number 2) On a serious note I've played many a game in Dungannon and while the pitch is grand and has the space available to do that (build a stadium), there are no infrastructure around it to make it a viable option
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 12, 2014, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2014, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 12, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
In dungannon we believe. Ill ask a question now to anyone in ulster when was the last time ye spent more than 5 minutes in Lurgan.  I'm only looking for 5 minutes.  Casement park Lurgan sounds shite.  A town with a few rotten apples around it..

So Antrim would have to play their home games in either Lurgan (shit hole number 1) or Dungannon (shit hole number 2) On a serious note I've played many a game in Dungannon and while the pitch is grand and has the space available to do that (build a stadium), there are no infrastructure around it to make it a viable option

It's all shite talk as it's Belfast or nowhere...and it doesn't matter where Antrim play their games as they won't win any of them...maybe they should play them in shitholes 1 & 2 and it'll match their results ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2014, 03:04:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2014, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 12, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
In dungannon we believe. Ill ask a question now to anyone in ulster when was the last time ye spent more than 5 minutes in Lurgan.  I'm only looking for 5 minutes.  Casement park Lurgan sounds shite.  A town with a few rotten apples around it..

So Antrim would have to play their home games in either Lurgan (shit hole number 1) or Dungannon (shit hole number 2) On a serious note I've played many a game in Dungannon and while the pitch is grand and has the space available to do that (build a stadium), there are no infrastructure around it to make it a viable option

Why do you say that? Presumably Casement park could be reinstated without the high stands and large crowds which are the cause of objection at the planning thing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 12, 2014, 06:54:04 PM
Too much time and money has been wasted for the project to go anywhere else. It will be given the green light but it may have a few thousand whacked off the capacity. The GAA will be told to to reduce the project to say 32000. The GAA wont be happy as this isnt really enough for an Ulster final and the residents wont be happy because although the height will be reduced by a few metres it will still be deemed too high and still much bigger than the unrealistic 20-25000 stadium they were willing to allow. How ironic that it was the IFA crowd that torpedoed the Maze project and came very close to having all the money for the 3 stadiums pulled due to their insistence on electing all sorts of shady characters within the association and yet their project is well under way whilst the GAA and local residents are still pissing around.

http://www.irishfa.com/stadium-development
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2014, 11:10:17 PM
The point where I said on a serious note had been clearly clearly missed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 12, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
It doesn't have to be built anywhere near O'Neill Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 13, 2014, 12:52:39 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 12, 2014, 06:54:04 PM
Too much time and money has been wasted for the project to go anywhere else. It will be given the green light but it may have a few thousand whacked off the capacity. The GAA will be told to to reduce the project to say 32000. The GAA wont be happy as this isnt really enough for an Ulster final and the residents wont be happy because although the height will be reduced by a few metres it will still be deemed too high and still much bigger than the unrealistic 20-25000 stadium they were willing to allow. How ironic that it was the IFA crowd that torpedoed the Maze project and came very close to having all the money for the 3 stadiums pulled due to their insistence on electing all sorts of shady characters within the association and yet their project is well under way whilst the GAA and local residents are still pissing around.

http://www.irishfa.com/stadium-development

The rugby men will be happy enough with a 32000 capacity and the concert promoters will be pleased too. Bring it on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 13, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
An ulster semi or final is handy for Armagh, Down, Derry folk but I think it's unfair having the likes of fans coming from Killybegs or Cavan having to travel to Belfast for such games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 13, 2014, 02:22:57 PM
Can they not build it around the back of the Andersonstown Leisure Centre?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 13, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
An ulster semi or final is handy for Armagh, Down, Derry folk but I think it's unfair having the likes of fans coming from Killybegs or Cavan having to travel to Belfast for such games.

Shit for Derry fans heading to Clones also.......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on December 13, 2014, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 13, 2014, 02:22:57 PM
Can they not build it around the back of the Andersonstown Leisure Centre?

Or shift it all to Corrigan Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 13, 2014, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 13, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
An ulster semi or final is handy for Armagh, Down, Derry folk but I think it's unfair having the likes of fans coming from Killybegs or Cavan having to travel to Belfast for such games.

Shit for Derry fans heading to Clones also.......

It's shit for everyone going to Clones!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 13, 2014, 05:06:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2014, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 13, 2014, 11:53:26 AM
An ulster semi or final is handy for Armagh, Down, Derry folk but I think it's unfair having the likes of fans coming from Killybegs or Cavan having to travel to Belfast for such games.

Shit for Derry fans heading to Clones also.......

There is empirical evidence of Derry fans not travelling in large numbers to Clones, but there is evidence of large numbers not travelling anywhere. Nevertheless, Killybegs to Belfast is half as far again as Limavady to Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 15, 2014, 10:34:24 AM
Planning permission denied
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 15, 2014, 10:37:35 AM
What now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2014, 10:38:01 AM
Denied, very surprised by the decision. Looks like Andytown is getting a big Tescos
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stiffler on December 15, 2014, 10:45:48 AM
What's plan b for Antrim then ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2014, 10:56:15 AM
Wow between this and the Maze 11-12 years have passed and Ulster GAA have feck all to show for it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on December 15, 2014, 11:06:08 AM
Quote from: bannside on December 15, 2014, 10:37:35 AM
What now?

they'll have to change the design. the planning approval was deemed unlawful but not quashed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 15, 2014, 11:10:52 AM
Casement Park redevelopment: Minister acted unlawfully by granting approvalBreaking news
Northern Ireland's environment minister acted unlawfully in approving a new GAA stadium in west Belfast, a High Court judge has ruled.

Planning permission for the 38,000-seater stadium was granted by Mark H Durkan in December 2013.

Local residents who objected to the size of the planned development launched a legal challenge in response.

Mr Justice Horner held the decision making process around the decision was "fundamentally flawed".

He identified failures in the environmental impact assessment of the increased facilities and an unrealistic reliance by the Department of the Environment (DoE) on an existing 32,600 capacity as a baseline for the project.

With far fewer spectators normally attending matches at the current ground, the judge also found that the effect of bigger crowds on the surrounding roads network had not been properly examined.

However, he did not quash the minister's decision.

Instead, lawyers for the DoE, the GAA and a residents group who mounted the legal challenge are to make further submissions on appropriate remedies.

Local residents claimed the proposed £76m stadium would be too big for the area.

The GAA's provincial body, the Ulster Council, said a 38,000 capacity was needed for the staging of Ulster Senior football finals and All-Ireland quarter-finals.

The redevelopment of Casement Park is part of the government's policy to upgrade the three major sports grounds in Belfast - football's Windsor Park, Ulster's rugby ground at Ravenhill and the Gaelic games stadium at Casement.

Three new stands have been constructed at Ravenhill.

Work on modernising Windsor Park, the home of Irish League club Linfield and the Northern Ireland international team, is ongoing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on December 15, 2014, 11:46:37 AM
At least they know now they'll get another cut for round bales in the spring.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on December 15, 2014, 01:02:27 PM
In the unlikely event of Derry playing in an Ulster final I prefer Clones over Casement any day! Mark H Durkan, take a bow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 15, 2014, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 15, 2014, 12:55:58 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2014, 10:38:01 AM
Denied, very surprised by the decision. Looks like Andytown is getting a big Tescos
That's disappointing. Are the plans for the abattoir or the traveller housing scheme definitely scrapped?
Offenders centre and wet hostel instead.

Like the A5 before it, how can these major capital projects go so wrong after spending hundreds of thousands on advisors and consultants? Will any of these consultants be offering their money back?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on December 15, 2014, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 15, 2014, 01:33:45 PM
Like the A5 before it, how can these major capital projects go so wrong after spending hundreds of thousands on advisors and consultants? Will any of these consultants be offering their money back?
Why the hell would they?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 15, 2014, 04:31:04 PM
Have we heard why it was deemed unlawful?

That's a big blow for the majority in the West.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DERRYSFINEST on December 15, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 15, 2014, 03:54:00 PM
If there is to be any type of stadium built at Casement, has anyone got any faith in the current Casement Park Project Team to see it through to completion and manage it thereafter? I wouldn't give them a job in the new Tesco ffs.

Who is on this team? Are they all paid employees of the Ulster Council?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 15, 2014, 04:51:42 PM
Dark Merkin, ye big eejit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2014, 05:12:07 PM
This seems to have been a bit of a mess. Apparently the judge said "The judge said: "There was no cogent evidence that it (Casement Park) was ever going to play host to crowds of 20,000 in the future never mind one of 32,600." i.e. the current situation.

There was 27000 at Armagh v Derry in 2005, how did traffic cope that day?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
Ha ha hardstation in fairness the abattoir line was a joke don't know what the traveller camp is about not me. I thought a 32000 stadium would be a fair compromise but the judge seems to have indicated that this is too much. A smaller capacity and the stadium isn't big enough for Ulster finals or all Ireland QF so another site is becoming a reality, casement will be no more so tescos or new housing is the very likely outcome.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2014, 05:50:20 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 15, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
Ha ha hardstation in fairness the abattoir line was a joke don't know what the traveller camp is about not me. I thought a 32000 stadium would be a fair compromise but the judge seems to have indicated that this is too much. A smaller capacity and the stadium isn't big enough for Ulster finals or all Ireland QF so another site is becoming a reality, casement will be no more so tescos or new housing is the very likely outcome.

They should just move Windsor Park there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 15, 2014, 08:06:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 15, 2014, 03:54:00 PM
If there is to be any type of stadium built at Casement, has anyone got any faith in the current Casement Park Project Team to see it through to completion and manage it thereafter? I wouldn't give them a job in the new Tesco ffs.
Stadium blocked due to personality clash?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 15, 2014, 08:55:55 PM
Since the ulster council now have 17 million to spare why not spend this on an upgrade for Clones. Pressure the Dublin government to improve the road network between Clones and Monaghan [much needed] . Build a scaled down version of Casement with the british government money that would satisfy the locals and meet the needs of Antrim and the I.R.F.U. . We then wouldn't have to pay V.A.T. on the gate receipts for the Ulster final. Everyone a winner. :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 15, 2014, 10:31:26 PM
Is it fair to say that this decision puts to bed the accusation (by some) that the whole shenanigans was simply the residents looking for a big pay-off?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2014, 10:44:12 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 15, 2014, 10:31:26 PM
Is it fair to say that this decision puts to bed the accusation (by some) that the whole shenanigans was simply the residents looking for a big pay-off?

It is simple NIMBYism, 100 people blocking a facility to be used by 100,000. The thing is that there is no public support for a public development as might exist in many countries. The city authorities do nothing to facilitate the development, the public transport provider does nothing to respond to possible traffic congestion issues, the interests of people in Tyrone or Armagh who might visit this stadium count for nought.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 15, 2014, 10:47:05 PM
Drop down to 25k keep Belfast happy, and we keep the Ulster final in Clones as 32k ain't big enough, casement will see maybe 2 championship games and 2 qualifier a year, yip value for money indeed. I see they say it been decades since casement has sold out, it would have sold out for all ulster  finals of the past 15yrs but hadn't the capacity, sort would put that argument null and void. I was there the day Derry played down in 1992 and there was 35k there that day, seen seen such a packed crowd, till restrictions on numbers were introduced
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gaffer on December 15, 2014, 10:52:17 PM
Maybe the beak has shares in Clones!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on December 15, 2014, 10:56:29 PM
Delighted to see Casement knocked back. Time for Ulster council to rethink a more central location for a new stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 16, 2014, 07:14:37 AM
I think o Neill regardless of the rights and wrongs of the needle group in terms of their attitude to planning, this decision does not say that or otherwise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on December 16, 2014, 08:22:52 AM
It is certainly saying that the opinions voiced by the residents are valid ones that need to be addressed.

On the subject of a large state of the art stadium...how many staff would be needed to look after it never mind the extra needed for stewarting a couple of times a year? That's no going to be voluntary effort?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gizzy15 on December 16, 2014, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 16, 2014, 08:22:52 AM
It is certainly saying that the opinions voiced by the residents are valid ones that need to be addressed.

On the subject of a large state of the art stadium...how many staff would be needed to look after it never mind the extra needed for stewarting a couple of times a year? That's no going to be voluntary effort?

we all know how this will change, unlike Casement as it was there will not be a county board running matters involving the ground, this will be changed to a full time Stadium/ Events officer, stewarding by 40 guys in high vis jackets for the price of a pint will change to a large contract with on of these Event security firms like the Odyssey, catering and Bar facilities will also be outsourced to an existing big company like that at Ravenhill (Mount Charles I think). money will be going out in all directions except for that of the clubs in Antrim. I just hope something can be resolved that suits all parties but I cant see what that would be.

I also find it hard watching our county players wishing for the development with hopes of playing their future games in this new stadium. maybe im wrong in thinking this but Antrim in its current position would be lucky to play one game a year in it. I say this because the business case would make it not viable to open the ground for small attendances and all national league games and hurling championship games Antrim would be involved in would be in this bracket.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 16, 2014, 09:27:49 AM
Antrim had roughly 7k at their last Championship match in Casement. White elephant if it went ahead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gizzy15 on December 16, 2014, 09:35:58 AM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on December 16, 2014, 09:27:49 AM
Antrim had roughly 7k at their last Championship match in Casement. White elephant if it went ahead.

but One Direction and Ed Sheran can pull in 30,000 not to mention Garth Brooks lol ;D but that's not what its for, how dare I.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on December 16, 2014, 09:43:38 AM
If people think Casement was ever just about GAA matches and the attendance at those, they may go again and I'm sure that's been said here over and over again.

Casement was a mini croker in a capital city, not just an additional 2/3 concerts a year but also premium level corporate facilities that are used 7 days a week not just on match days. Just look at Croke Park and how it is used, its not just a venue, its a working building on so many fronts - GAA Muesem, Skywalk, stadium tours and then their is the whole conference set up.

Casement, while not at the level of Croke Park, was to go that route and that will only work in a large urban setting like Belfast. Its not going to work in Clones, Dungannon or anywhere else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 16, 2014, 09:43:56 AM
The difference Dennis the menace is that if Antrim Football ever gets its act together, starts fulfilling it's potential, it is the one county who actually fill 30k plus. Albeit there are a few major ifs and buts there.

As a tiny example - St Brigids under 16's were within an inch of the posts of bringing the Ulster U-16 championship back to Antrim for the third time in four years, losing out to an exceptional Burren team who expect three or four future Down footballers from their squad. That's just one example of the talent pool that exists.

A new stadium (don't care what size it is) with could help trigger a massive GAA reaction that could lead to Antrim making a breakthrough which would be a big shot in the arm for the GAA in Ulster as a whole. There is no doubt Antrim are a sleeping giant that is still enduring a hangover from the troubles.

In case anyone thinks that's a bit fanciful I would like to remind you that pre troubles (1969/70 etc) we were winning Hoganstand and Mc Rorys with different schools, playing and winning All - Ireland under 21 finals and getting within a whisker if the great Down teams of that era who won Sam.

That's where we were at that point and make no mistake with the correct structures on and off the pitch that's where we can return to.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 09:56:44 AM
Quote from: Bingo on December 16, 2014, 09:43:38 AM
If people think Casement was ever just about GAA matches and the attendance at those, they may go again and I'm sure that's been said here over and over again.

Casement was a mini croker in a capital city, not just an additional 2/3 concerts a year but also premium level corporate facilities that are used 7 days a week not just on match days. Just look at Croke Park and how it is used, its not just a venue, its a working building on so many fronts - GAA Muesem, Skywalk, stadium tours and then their is the whole conference set up.

Casement, while not at the level of Croke Park, was to go that route and that will only work in a large urban setting like Belfast. Its not going to work in Clones, Dungannon or anywhere else.

Cant disagree with any of that. If Casement doesnt happen though there are not many other sites in Belfast that the GAA could look at. Some here have mentioned Musgrave park but I cant see that being allowed, on other blogs some have metioned the North foreshore or even the Titanic quarter which are ideal for the concert and conference side of things and maybe even the big GAA games but not exactly ideal for the routine Antrim GAA side of things
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: bannside on December 16, 2014, 09:43:56 AM
The difference Dennis the menace is that if Antrim Football ever gets its act together, starts fulfilling it's potential, it is the one county who actually fill 30k plus. Albeit there are a few major ifs and buts there.

As a tiny example - St Brigids under 16's were within an inch of the posts of bringing the Ulster U-16 championship back to Antrim for the third time in four years, losing out to an exceptional Burren team who expect three or four future Down footballers from their squad. That's just one example of the talent pool that exists.

A new stadium (don't care what size it is) with could help trigger a massive GAA reaction that could lead to Antrim making a breakthrough which would be a big shot in the arm for the GAA in Ulster as a whole. There is no doubt Antrim are a sleeping giant that is still enduring a hangover from the troubles.

In case anyone thinks that's a bit fanciful I would like to remind you that pre troubles (1969/70 etc) we were winning Hoganstand and Mc Rorys with different schools, playing and winning All - Ireland under 21 finals and getting within a whisker if the great Down teams of that era who won Sam.

That's where we were at that point and make no mistake with the correct structures on and off the pitch that's where we can return to.

Antrim is a sleeping giant but still too many locals more interested in Celtic, Man U and Liverpool!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bensars on December 16, 2014, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: bannside on December 16, 2014, 09:43:56 AM
The difference Dennis the menace is that if Antrim Football ever gets its act together, starts fulfilling it's potential, it is the one county who actually fill 30k plus. Albeit there are a few major ifs and buts there.

Thats a stretch by anyones imagination-  Lucky to get 30k combined at Ulster finals between 2 well supported counties

As a tiny example - St Brigids under 16's were within an inch of the posts of bringing the Ulster U-16 championship back to Antrim for the third time in four years, losing out to an exceptional Burren team who expect three or four future Down footballers from their squad. That's just one example of the talent pool that exists.

Antrims revival and the approval of the Casement project based on a losing u-16 team  ??

A new stadium (don't care what size it is) with could help trigger a massive GAA reaction that could lead to Antrim making a breakthrough which would be a big shot in the arm for the GAA in Ulster as a whole. There is no doubt Antrim are a sleeping giant that is still enduring a hangover from the troubles.

A new stadium may stimulate interest, but the result or effect of it on the rest of Ulster  may not even be noticed. In fact playing games in 35,000 stadium with 5-10,000 people in it would have a negitive effect on the occassion IMO.It would be like a game behind closed doors

In case anyone thinks that's a bit fanciful I would like to remind you that pre troubles (1969/70 etc) we were winning Hoganstand and Mc Rorys with different schools, playing and winning All - Ireland under 21 finals and getting within a whisker if the great Down teams of that era who won Sam.

Romantic to say the least.That was 50 years ago and a stadium will not produce successful youth teams. In the 80's Maghera were winning all around them on a much more regular occurance, why not move it to south Derry and rename it after Adrain McGuckin  

That's where we were at that point and make no mistake with the correct structures on and off the pitch that's where we can return to.
The stuctures you talk of are already in place in many other couties without the Stadia in place. The Casement redevelopment refusal should have no impact on a structure that should have been implemented years ago anyway.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 16, 2014, 10:28:20 AM
Belfast is the capital of the North and the GAA has a duty to provide modern facilities in ireland second largest city.

IF Antrim could get a successful run going it would have the potential of generating thousands of first generation GAA interest and open up a  whole new target market.

The U-16 example was just that. A clear example that at age 16 we are producing players of a high quality in that will stand up in comparison with their peers. The challenge in Antrim is maintaining that. I never based the proposal of a multi million pound stadium on this fact - simply used it to highlight the fact that we have a talent pool that could produce serious Antrim senior teams in the future that would in turn bring out potentially large crowds!

Finally Benson you should note that I qualified my post by saying I don't care what size the stadium is (what's wrong with the 15k Kingspan example) so decent sized crowds there would indeed create a good atmosphere.   At the minute I would gladly settle for something along the lines of Kingspan.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on December 16, 2014, 10:56:48 AM
Bannside i love ur optimism!

a new stadium would be a great starting block to promote gaa to all in antrim, i hope that something happens shortly to make this happen.

The only ones who have come out of the whole thing any better off are the social club members!

they are still getting to drink their pints in a relocated temporary bar. the whole thing stinks, yes the minister was hasty in his part, the residents say they would be happy with a smaller stadium but i think not.
they will still want a say in what happens regardless & a few quid thrown in for good measure.

sure look at what happened when belfast got money for new pitches around the city, the locals complained that falls park would lose its identity if they made 3g pitches in it. some people are never happy. not much care for casements identity today!!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bensars on December 16, 2014, 10:58:36 AM
What i find difficult is the Belfast Me me me syndrome.  This is Ulster GAA, not just Belfast or Antrim. The proposed development should be for the betterment of all GAA family throughout the province.

Antrim did have a successful run a few years ago when they reached a Ulster final.

Antrim have always had high quality underage teams ( hardly suprising given the numbers available to them), so where does the problem arise ?  This hasnt produced as you described " serious Antrim Senior teams that would bring out potentially large crowds".
Why has it not happened before ?

I appreciate your  romantic notion of the field of Dreams effect,  stimulating interest, increasing numbers, producing better teams and have the crowds will come.

Antrims lack of success and failure to develop runs much deeper than a piece of concrete on the Anderstown Road.

Next question.............why not have it it Down, Armagh etc  within a close enough commute  for all three neighbouring counties ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cockahoop on December 16, 2014, 11:10:46 AM
IMO they should let it rot for a couple of years and let the rats and druggies take it over and the few residents who are trying to stop the development will be begging the GAA to come back!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 16, 2014, 11:24:23 AM
The GAA is under no obligations to Antrim or the false Gaels of West Belfast. Gregory was peeing in his curried yoghourt at the mess created for nationalists by nationalists. There is no need for another 25,000 stadium so if the Westies don't want the cash take it up the motorway to a green field site where a 38,000 stadium can be built. Mind you Mark H Durkan must be the most inept minister around, no wonder the stoops are in trouble. That said Carál is not far behind.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longballin on December 16, 2014, 11:32:30 AM
Quite the irony; many of same people who want rights for local Nationalist residents in other parts of Belfast think these residents should have no rights.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: longballin on December 16, 2014, 11:32:30 AM
Quite the irony; many of same people who want rights for local Nationalist residents in other parts of Belfast think these residents should have no rights.

Are you Nelson McCausland? A fellow traveller anyway, the Orange Order and the GAA are not comparable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:39:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 11:36:40 AM
Quote from: longballin on December 16, 2014, 11:32:30 AM
Quite the irony; many of same people who want rights for local Nationalist residents in other parts of Belfast think these residents should have no rights.

Are you Nelson McCausland? A fellow traveller anyway, the Orange Order and the GAA are not comparable.

Nelson McCauslands a great guy he only wanted to rename the stadium the Edward Carson Park or something not torpedo the whole project
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 16, 2014, 11:39:20 AM
People are talking about building a new stadium in a green site or upgrading Clones. This is not an option. The money was for Casement Park or nothing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:43:17 AM
Interesting quotes from the judge

"There was no cogent evidence that it (Casement Park) was ever going to play host to crowds of 20,000 in the future never mind one of 32,600,"

Did no-one mention any Ulster final! That aside he then goes on about the raised police concerns about safety issues and impact on the road network with a crowd of 38,000! Wait a minute I thought Casement would be lucky to get 20000 now all of a sudden he is worried about the impact of 38000 er WTF.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longballin on December 16, 2014, 11:45:27 AM
...but the views and rights of local residents are important whatever the issue...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:48:33 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 16, 2014, 11:39:20 AM
People are talking about building a new stadium in a green site or upgrading Clones. This is not an option. The money was for Casement Park or nothing.

That was the case however the IFA have managed to get funding for various projects not just Windsor Park. Their plans are yet unknown but Im presuming a new Glentoran stadium and money for the Brandywell will be part of their spending so I reckon the GAA could argue the toss to fund a new build somewhere else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: longballin on December 16, 2014, 11:45:27 AM
...but the views and rights of local residents are important whatever the issue...

and the views and rights of the local people who want development?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cockahoop on December 16, 2014, 11:54:47 AM
Clones is not a option if they want to claim the 61million grant from the british exchequer,last time i checked Clones was in the Republic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: longballin on December 16, 2014, 11:57:27 AM
Aye all views should be considered though locals have to live in the shadow of it. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 16, 2014, 12:25:06 PM
Ah right I get it now, build the new stadium and Antrim in a few years time will be challenging for All-Irelands and bring in crowds of 30k+..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 12:37:00 PM
Quote from: cockahoop on December 16, 2014, 11:54:47 AM
Clones is not a option if they want to claim the 61million grant from the british exchequer,last time i checked Clones was in the Republic.

If you build a big enough stand in Clones sure it would be in Fermanagh!

How about a deal where this money goes to Clones and the 26 counties agrees to contribute to the A5.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 16, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
Both Paddy Heaney and Kevin Madden make valid points re terracing and a capacity reduction as a compromise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on December 16, 2014, 03:08:49 PM
hardstation is paddy heaney talking crap then? about resident getting money?

i seen mark sidebottom on bbc news last night with a document in his hand saying the residents were offered a deal in may 2013 worth just over a million pounds, is this also false?! listen for yourself, link is below!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/northern-ireland/30479191
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 16, 2014, 03:35:43 PM
Quote from: culchie11 on December 16, 2014, 03:08:49 PM
hardstation is paddy heaney talking crap then? about resident getting money?

i seen mark sidebottom on bbc news last night with a document in his hand saying the residents were offered a deal in may 2013 worth just over a million pounds, is this also false?! listen for yourself, link is below!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/northern-ireland/30479191
you have just proven Hardstations point that the issue wasn't about being bought off. I for one wouldn't want  to be forced to leave my home by the ulster council or anybody else.  Paddy Heany has been talking crap on this issue from day one
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 03:37:57 PM
Well there you have it money, market value of the properties mmm looks like that woman on talkback wasn't talking nonsense after all. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 16, 2014, 03:58:11 PM
Lets have a rational look at this. Here was an opportunity for a £70m investment in an area that has cried for decades about Unionist mis-rule and under investment. There is a need for a stadium of around 40,000 to host Ulster Finals and AI quarters where opening Croker is marginal and if a by product is a few concerts and all the corporate events that the venue could also host that is money reinvested in the GAA. And no doubt Antrim would have benefited also. False Gaels yes, I have heard so many of these hard pressed citizens claim to be great Gaels yet they stand in the way of progress. So as they don't want the investment lets take it elsewhere. I don't accept that it was only for casement, it was a SF/DUP carve up and the GAA will get the cash. This Nationalist hard done by sob story begging bowl attitude needs to be forgotten it is shameful.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 16, 2014, 03:56:35 PM
Quote from: culchie11 on December 16, 2014, 03:08:49 PM
hardstation is paddy heaney talking crap then? about resident getting money?

i seen mark sidebottom on bbc news last night with a document in his hand saying the residents were offered a deal in may 2013 worth just over a million pounds, is this also false?! listen for yourself, link is below!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/northern-ireland/30479191
Can't listen at the minute but if your description is correct, the residents were offered a pay off in 2013 but didn't take it and continued with Judicial Review. What part of that makes you think that they want a pay off? How can you take anything but the opposite from that?

Couldn't agree on how to divide the money up is what the man said. In fairness the GAA were mad to continue with the plans. Alarm bells should have been ringing at an early stage. Sure even if it was built and they wanted their concerts then it would be more of the Croke Park fun and games everytime there was an event
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 16, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
I'm as good and proud an Antrim gael as anyone but no matter how fanciful a big bright new stadium would be, I think that in this case many of the residents were perfectly entitled to have their views reflected in a respectful way.

Yes, the odd one or two would have gladly taken a few handy grand if they could get it in compensation - but what drove most of the objectors on was the way they felt their views were being trashed.

Everyone can take their own lessons from this - but in hindsight just a bit more humility from high brow officials could have seen this problem nipped in the bud long ago.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 16, 2014, 07:14:57 PM
This is a terrible shame and the big loser in this will ultimately be  Antrim GAA first and foremost.  Ill let others gloat or point fingers on the rights and wrongs.  So what... everyone lost here...West Belfast has lost their stadium of light. 

However this is typical of our wee place.. The North is a mad place at times and any semblence of progress and forward thinking will always be blocked and we just trundle on from issue to issue. We as a people tend to shoot ourselves in the foot time and time again.  We just cant handle anything bigger than us...     
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on December 16, 2014, 07:31:45 PM
I do think the whole thing was a vanity project by the Ulster Council, certain individuals within Antrim GAA and local politicians, and the residents views were going to be a distant second to their motives.

Did anyone put a back of a fag box calculation on how much money this would bring into West Belfast? There are certain areas of West Belfast that could do with regeneration but I wouldn't have thought Andytown is one of them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 16, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 16, 2014, 07:31:45 PM
I do think the whole thing was a vanity project by the Ulster Council, certain individuals within Antrim GAA and local politicians, and the residents views were going to be a distant second to their motives.

Did anyone put a back of a fag box calculation on how much money this would bring into West Belfast? There are certain areas of West Belfast that could do with regeneration but I wouldn't have thought Andytown is one of them.
Throw Dunsilly into the mix and it shows that Antrim really is a hash.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 16, 2014, 09:04:41 PM
I remember a similar argument from NI supporters about not needed larger capacity as well.  Dreamers and visionaries are scorned as 'egos' and projects as vanity projects.  We should have built Croker for 50 k as well then.  An average county ground for Antrim GAA for the next 50 years. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 16, 2014, 09:08:26 PM
Heaneys article

Had opposition just been "whittled down to a few houses" ?



UNLIKE The Honourable Mr Justice Horner, a lot of people made a rushed judgment about Casement Park yesterday morning.

At 10:26am, a tweet from @ClubAontroma announced that "planning permission for the redevelopment of Casement Park is denied in court".
That statement wasn't accurate. Mr Justice Horner hasn't denied anything - yet.
Yes, the judge ruled that the Department of the Environment made a hash of things. The DOE messed up. Traffic assessments and environmental surveys were not carried out properly.
When assessing the impact of the new stadium, the DOE claimed only an extra 5,000 fans would be attending the ground. This was calculated from a baseline attendance of 32,500. But Casement Park hasn't been filled for years and Mr Justice Horner ruled that a much smaller figure should have been employed. Crucially though, the judge didn't quash the planning permission. Instead, he has asked the parties to convene tomorrow morning. The final outcome is expected tomorrow.
The judge's reluctance to make a definitive judgment should be a source of hope for the GAA.
If the project was going to be killed stone dead then it can be assumed the news would have been delivered yesterday.

A judicial review is like a boxing contest. Two combatants enter the ring. If both parties are still alive at the end, the referee raises the arm of one man.
When dispensing verdicts the law is usually just as swift. So why has Mr Justice Horner refused to declare an outright winner?
It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that the judge believes some type of accommodation can be reached.

Let's hope he is right. It would be a travesty if the opposition of such a tiny minority derailed a project that has got almost universal support.
A few months ago, I argued that the vast majority of the people in west Belfast were in favour of Casement Park being redeveloped. The main thrust of the opposition was coming from the 180 houses situated around the ground.

Since then the GAA has got its act together and that opposition has been whittled down to a few houses.

The vast majority of residents are now willing to accept a compensation package. Under the terms of the proposal, the houses surrounding the new venue will be divided into four categories: A,B,C and D.
Residents of category A houses will receive £20,000 and the descending scale is £15,000 (category B), £10,000 (category C) and £5,000 (category D).
Ulster GAA has also volunteered to build a 2,000 square foot community centre and residents
will be represented on the stadium's board.
It was former Down hurling manager John Crossey who led the resistance to the 38,000 seater stadium. Crossey was the chairman of the Mooreland/ Owenvarragh Residents Association. It's worth noting that Crossey has since resigned from that post.
Regardless of what happens tomorrow, it is abundantly clear there is a collective will for Casement Park to be redeveloped. Even if Ulster GAA is forced to go back to square one, they can still get their new HQ on the Andersonstown Road. They just need the DOE to correct the mistakes which were made the first time around.

Ironically, the greatest threat to the project could come from within the GAA. As things stand, the British Exchequer is willing to provide £61million for a new GAA stadium in Ulster. Croke Park has also agreed to provide £15million. But some influential figures in the GAA are not in favour of Ulster's new HQ being built in Belfast. Instead, they believe the project should be shelved and the £15m from Croke Park should be ploughed into St Tiernach's Park in Clones.
The powers-that-be in Croke Park have a responsibility to publicly voice their support for Casement Park.

For years, leading GAA officials have told us that they are committed to developing Gaelic games in Ireland's second city. Such words would sound extremely hollow if the GAA turns its back on Belfast and returns to a market town in Monaghan. Throughout this long and infuriating dispute, the residents have insisted their main gripe lies with the height of the new stadium. But the Ulster Council has been reluctant to reduce the size of the capacity. For good reason, they have insisted that the ground must hold more than 35,000.

For a compromise, the GAA should look to the east of the city. Kingspan Stadium, formerly Ravenhill, has a capacity of 18,000. Terracing accounts for exactly half of that figure.
That's right. It seems your average ex-Methody, scarf-wearing rugger lover has no objection to standing at a game.

This raises one very pertinent question. Why is Ulster GAA so obsessed with building an all-seater venue? With terracing they could build a smaller stadium and still cater for 40,000 supporters. GAA insiders claim the push for all-seater grounds comes from market research that was carried out at national level. The researchers must have conducted their surveys in the VIP section in Croke Park. I would dispute those findings and for hard evidence I would point to Hill 16.
Even when seats are available, there are thousands of Dubs who still prefer to stand on the Hill. Apart from the fact they will have a better time, their preference for standing could also have something to do with the price of the tickets. It's cheaper to stand. For most PRO12 games at Ravenhill, a seated ticket costs between £22 and £30. Terrace tickets are area is £15-£18. The clever people at Ulster Rugby insisted there was terracing the whole way around their new ground. Why? Because terracing generates more noise and a better atmosphere. (I just wish Ulster GAA upheld the same working class values as their counterparts in Ulster Rugby).

The delay caused by this judicial review is costing the Casement Park project £60,000 a week.
The overall bill has now risen by £2.7 million. Counsel for the GAA revealed nearly £5m of preliminary work will be lost if the scheme is halted further. The site is infested with rats. While the residents might have understandable grievances with the stadium, the alternative could be a lot worse. Prolonging this saga serves no-one's interests. There is room for compromise from both sides. There must be a good reason Mr Justice Horner is bringing all the parties into a room tomorrow.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 09:16:49 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 16, 2014, 07:31:45 PM
I do think the whole thing was a vanity project by the Ulster Council, certain individuals within Antrim GAA and local politicians, and the residents views were going to be a distant second to their motives.

AS far as the vanity project is concern they were given the money and came up with a scheme to match. The project was not well handled, but the Ulster council have to represent the GAA and the residents have had a stadium for Ulster finals beside them for 61 years, this is simply an inevitable modernisation.

Heaney's article has some merit, but Madden has the usual it will do Antrim and feck the rest of you approach.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 PM
Even supporters of the new stadium must admit this was an incompetent fcuk-up.

No effective environmental assessment
No effective safety issue assessment
No traffic impact assessment
No planning rights for the new capacity
DoE incompetence.

Was this an A Level project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 PM
Even supporters of the new stadium must admit this was an incompetent fcuk-up.

No effective environmental assessment
No effective safety issue assessment
No traffic impact assessment
No planning rights for the new capacity
DoE incompetence.

Was this an A Level project?

The shocking thing is that the DOE did not set out the need for these things back at the beginning. It is fair to criticise the GAA in some respects, but they did what the DOE asked, expecting them to anticipate that the DOE were not doing their job is asking a lot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 16, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
From what i gather today in at work from a person living a street over, the main focus was on 6 houses intitally which i think the GAA tried to buy. 2 would sell, the other 4 were older people who always lived there and were not interested in moving. Some residents think they won the case but the majority in the area accept a stadium of around 30k will probably be built, I think it was down to an issue of right to light and the shadow from the new stadium would have their houses in permanent shade.

She had mentioned some other houses which may have been also under the scope, one women wouldn't accept any less that over £400k for a house worth only a third of that, the GAA would have no choice but to pay it, again this is 2nd hand information so i don't know, you know what gossip like.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 16, 2014, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 16, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
From what i gather today in at work from a person living a street over, the main focus was on 6 houses intitally which i think the GAA tried to buy. 2 would sell, the other 4 were older people who always lived there and were not interested in moving. Some residents think they won the case but the majority in the area accept a stadium of around 30k will probably be built, I think it was down to an issue of right to light and the shadow from the new stadium would have their houses in permanent shade.

She had mentioned some other houses which may have been also under the scope, one women wouldn't accept any less that over £400k for a house worth only a third of that, the GAA would have no choice but to pay it, again this is 2nd hand information so i don't know, you know what gossip like.

exactly
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 16, 2014, 10:19:18 PM
why did John Crossy resign from the residents group.  He was quite vocal was he not?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 16, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
From what i gather today in at work from a person living a street over, the main focus was on 6 houses intitally which i think the GAA tried to buy. 2 would sell, the other 4 were older people who always lived there and were not interested in moving. Some residents think they won the case but the majority in the area accept a stadium of around 30k will probably be built, I think it was down to an issue of right to light and the shadow from the new stadium would have their houses in permanent shade.

In a normal place, where a civic amenity was being built, the city authorities would just CPO the houses, pay a generous fee for them and build the stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 16, 2014, 10:31:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 PM
Even supporters of the new stadium must admit this was an incompetent fcuk-up.

No effective environmental assessment
No effective safety issue assessment
No traffic impact assessment
No planning rights for the new capacity
DoE incompetence.

Was this an A Level project?

The shocking thing is that the DOE did not set out the need for these things back at the beginning. It is fair to criticise the GAA in some respects, but they did what the DOE asked, expecting them to anticipate that the DOE were not doing their job is asking a lot.

What was also interesting was that judge left it open that the failure to inform the minister of the PSNI's concerns may have been deliberate. OK - benefit of the doubt is that it was accidental but as he said himself it left the whole process 'irretrievably flawed'.

RRHF, you say this debacle is another example of 'our wee place' blocking forward thinking. I thinking it's another example of our wee place bumbling about with projects that would be expertly and prefessionally handled elsewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 10:44:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 10:30:06 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 16, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
From what i gather today in at work from a person living a street over, the main focus was on 6 houses intitally which i think the GAA tried to buy. 2 would sell, the other 4 were older people who always lived there and were not interested in moving. Some residents think they won the case but the majority in the area accept a stadium of around 30k will probably be built, I think it was down to an issue of right to light and the shadow from the new stadium would have their houses in permanent shade.

In a normal place, where a civic amenity was being built, the city authorities would just CPO the houses, pay a generous fee for them and build the stadium.

The figures quoted that will be wasted if the project doesn't happen is 7 million and rising. That would have bought a fair number of houses in the area
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 16, 2014, 10:49:22 PM
Feck the money, feck buying the houses; it is about the people living in the area for a number of years standing up to the GAA. By God they are doing a great job in doing so; and if the inadequate work of Mark Durkan can help: then all the better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 16, 2014, 10:53:27 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 16, 2014, 10:31:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2014, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 PM
Even supporters of the new stadium must admit this was an incompetent fcuk-up.

No effective environmental assessment
No effective safety issue assessment
No traffic impact assessment
No planning rights for the new capacity
DoE incompetence.

Was this an A Level project?

The shocking thing is that the DOE did not set out the need for these things back at the beginning. It is fair to criticise the GAA in some respects, but they did what the DOE asked, expecting them to anticipate that the DOE were not doing their job is asking a lot.

What was also interesting was that judge left it open that the failure to inform the minister of the PSNI's concerns may have been deliberate. OK - benefit of the doubt is that it was accidental but as he said himself it left the whole process 'irretrievably flawed'.

RRHF, you say this debacle is another example of 'our wee place' blocking forward thinking. I thinking it's another example of our wee place bumbling about with projects that would be expertly and prefessionally handled elsewhere.
The opposition wouldnt have the voice elsewhere.  Give me a precedent on one stadium development prevented by 6 houses(as right as we may feel they are) 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 16, 2014, 10:59:53 PM
It was initially 6 houses, i think more has fallen under the scope after concerns from residents, not sure how this will progress but i have a feeling the bid for the world cup and not the gaa need for a stadium will come to bear and a stadium of some form will be built
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:14:54 PM
Just out of interest has anyone seen the size of the new proposed Liverpool stand that will affect lots of local residents, it makes casement look like a bungalow. I wonder if that one gets the green light or not, er of course it will.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 17, 2014, 07:10:42 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:14:54 PM
Just out of interest has anyone seen the size of the new proposed Liverpool stand that will affect lots of local residents, it makes casement look like a bungalow. I wonder if that one gets the green light or not, er of course it will.

That new liverpool stand is an ugly as piece of Architecture as I've ever seen! The one decent thing that might emerge from the casement c*ck up is that uncovered section might finally get the boot. I'd love the brains trust to explain that one to me, uncovered seats in Belfast?? Clowns!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 17, 2014, 08:11:52 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 17, 2014, 07:10:42 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 16, 2014, 11:14:54 PM
Just out of interest has anyone seen the size of the new proposed Liverpool stand that will affect lots of local residents, it makes casement look like a bungalow. I wonder if that one gets the green light or not, er of course it will.

That new liverpool stand is an ugly as piece of Architecture as I've ever seen! The one decent thing that might emerge from the casement c*ck up is that uncovered section might finally get the boot. I'd love the brains trust to explain that one to me, uncovered seats in Belfast?? Clowns!

Thats GAA design for you. Gaelic grounds was redeveloped a few years back without a roof. Pairc ui Chaoimh is having 70 million thrown at it and the 2 end terraces will barely be touched. The GAA must think this global warming is about to kick in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 17, 2014, 08:23:16 AM
Has anyone come up with an estimate for the consequential costs of this decision ?

It will run into a few million at least. Christmas has indeed come early for the contractors.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 17, 2014, 08:58:22 AM
So is today D Day for Casement? When are we likely to find out?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 17, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
My gut feeling is that it will not happen now. 
Speaking as an Ulster Gael who has no vested interest in this except for the GAA,  I fear it will leave Antrim GAA in disarray and with a poor future, and thats not good for the GAA in Belfast.
Ulster GAA will have to find an alternative plan for the "stadium of light."- several other counties including Tyrone may come into focus.   
I was certainly not a fan of this at the start, and selfishly but understandably wanted more money to come into Tyrone who were getting fcuk all for our wonderful progressive (yet ironically similarly much criticised) Garvaghey project at the start, but I like many came to be convinced of the greater good for Ulster GAA and West Belfast particularly at a time when it seems the entire development plan for the future of Belfast is focussed on the East of the city and can see the huge benefits for having the stadium here.  It kept the main stadium in Belfast in the West. I honestly think that the way the city is moving in 20 years time you will still see the impact of this as a confident wealthy Belfast by the docklands and the western outskirts being a drive by, there will be absolutely no reason to go there anymore.    Ill openly admit I don't have property in the area or connections like the vociferous others on here and maybe thats their right not to admit that, and now they have won their case they must be very happy with themselves. If they are GAA sorts at all they will deep down feel that this was not really a win for anyone.  We have been told they are they are so I expect their relief is tempered with sadness. 

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on December 17, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
I think an upgrade of a stadium in Armagh/Tyrone is best, but can't see a brand new stadium being built. When was the last time a GAA stadium was built from scratch? I don't remember any.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: yellowcard on December 17, 2014, 11:01:35 AM
Gut feeling is that a slightly scaled down modified version of the original plan will be agreed upon. To be honest I'm not sure there is a need for 38,000 seater stadium anyway. Nothing worse than a quarter full stadium with no atmosphere. It would be full once a year for an Ulster final and hard to justify the increase in capacity on that basis.   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on December 17, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 17, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
I think an upgrade of a stadium in Armagh/Tyrone is best, but can't see a brand new stadium being built. When was the last time a GAA stadium was built from scratch? I don't remember any.

Has no one been paying attention to the this the whole way through.

Ziggy said it earlier, this money has been ring fenced for Casement. It cannot and will not be directed to another project anywhere else.

Its Casement of bust I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on December 17, 2014, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 17, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
I think an upgrade of a stadium in Armagh/Tyrone is best, but can't see a brand new stadium being built. When was the last time a GAA stadium was built from scratch? I don't remember any.

Has no one been paying attention to the this the whole way through.

Ziggy said it earlier, this money has been ring fenced for Casement. It cannot and will not be directed to another project anywhere else.

Its Casement of bust I'm afraid.

Incorrect.

The original restrictions still stand, namely that all three sports are to spend the money on one stadium development each.

There have never been any restrictions on whether the stadiums should be refurbishments, greenfield sites, or ties to any given location.

The decision to spend the money on Casement was the GAA's, and the GAA's alone. After receiving (flawed) advice from an unnamed consultancy in 2010 that the site could accommodate a 40k stadium.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 17, 2014, 11:28:06 AM
Quote from: snatter on December 17, 2014, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 17, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
I think an upgrade of a stadium in Armagh/Tyrone is best, but can't see a brand new stadium being built. When was the last time a GAA stadium was built from scratch? I don't remember any.

Has no one been paying attention to the this the whole way through.

Ziggy said it earlier, this money has been ring fenced for Casement. It cannot and will not be directed to another project anywhere else.

Its Casement of bust I'm afraid.

Incorrect.

The original restrictions still stand, namely that all three sports are to spend the money on one stadium development each.

There have never been any restrictions on whether the stadiums should be refurbishments, greenfield sites, or ties to any given location.

The decision to spend the money on Casement was the GAA's, and the GAA's alone. After receiving (flawed) advice from an unnamed consultancy in 2010 that the site could accommodate a 40k stadium.

The IFA are not ploughing all their money into Windsor. They will have some left over for 'other' projects - likely to be a new Glentoran stadium and a makeover elesewhere. Windsor itself is only costing 31 million

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on December 17, 2014, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 17, 2014, 11:28:06 AM
Quote from: snatter on December 17, 2014, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 17, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
I think an upgrade of a stadium in Armagh/Tyrone is best, but can't see a brand new stadium being built. When was the last time a GAA stadium was built from scratch? I don't remember any.

Has no one been paying attention to the this the whole way through.

Ziggy said it earlier, this money has been ring fenced for Casement. It cannot and will not be directed to another project anywhere else.

Its Casement of bust I'm afraid.

Incorrect.

The original restrictions still stand, namely that all three sports are to spend the money on one stadium development each.

There have never been any restrictions on whether the stadiums should be refurbishments, greenfield sites, or ties to any given location.

The decision to spend the money on Casement was the GAA's, and the GAA's alone. After receiving (flawed) advice from an unnamed consultancy in 2010 that the site could accommodate a 40k stadium.

The IFA are not ploughing all their money into Windsor. They will have some left over for 'other' projects - likely to be a new Glentoran stadium and a makeover elesewhere.

The Glentoran thing is an appeasement coming from the IFA after they had 'messed' up with Windsor's Long term lease too Linfield. The money is not coming out of this pot.

My point is, the shared stadium was rejected, all three sports then selected their own projects. From this the money was allocated to each. The money was allocated on the basis of Windsor/ Ravenhill and Casement and has to be 'now' used for these project alone.

Slight technicality but that's the way it is standing currently.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 17, 2014, 11:43:12 AM
Ok here we go Northern Irelands strategic plan

https://secure.irishfa.com/fs/doc/IFA_Strategy_-_Final_proof_19_Nov_2013.pdf

For those who dont want to wade through all the rubbish here is the important bit on page 13

'THE Association has a once in a generation opportunity
to transform its stadia over the next five years.
The £29.2m re-development of Windsor Park into a
state of the art 18,000 seat National Stadium will be
more than a new ground for the national team.
It will be a new home for the Irish FA; a new
conference facility for the city of Belfast; and provide new
social and recreational facilities to local communities.
We hope that its construction symbolises a continuing
confidence in a new Northern Ireland, and in turn
inspires growing confidence and support for our team.
A further £36.2m investment is planned to develop
sub-regional facilities for the benefit of both the
international and domestic game. By improving and
upgrading facilities across Northern Ireland, we will
provide better environments to develop our players and
improve the facilities for fans and supporters who come
to watch the game.
In total, the NI Executive through the Department
of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) has committed
£61.4 million of capital funding for football stadia and
facilities. The Irish FA is committing a further £4 million
(14% of the total stadium project costs), and we aim to
attract further investment partners both at the new
National Stadium, and for regional facilities.'


'The remainder of the £36.2m allocation will be open
to bids from individual clubs and consortia across
Northern Ireland for community and social cohesion
projects, or to develop their clubs into community
"beacons" with their facilities opened up for use by
local communities, or as part of a social enterprise. '
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 17, 2014, 11:50:26 AM
Before you all get too excited I seriously doubt the GAA are about to offer money to individual clubs. I still think it will all be ploughed into the one development. The GAA themselves released a strategic plan not so long ago and it definitely involved one quality modern stadium in each province.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on December 17, 2014, 11:52:37 AM
Quote from: hardstation on December 17, 2014, 01:52:40 AM
Quote from: rrhf on April 03, 2009, 10:25:23 AM
100 million is crazy.  Put 3 million into each county board for elite county facilities IE Garvaghy = 27 million  to give third pitch  grants and floodlighting  of 150 000 each to 300 clubs accross Ulster = 45 million. leaves 28 million cash to develop a decend Belfast stadium along with a decent business plan that pays off.
The GAAs idea of promotion at the moment is from the top down not the bottom up.  Which will have more effect - improved additional community facilities based on need or Casement 100 mill white elephant based on vanity.
I suppose the main question should be , can the money set aside for this project be used elsewhere. If so, then upgrading county grounds and centres of excellence, and providing more floodlighting for clubs, throughout ulster, would be a much better use of those funds.
We have many challenges in the future , and though the attraction of having a state of the art stadium in Belfast is obvious, I am not sure that It would leave us better equipped to meet those challenges.
Though Clones is very inaccessible for me personally, there is no doubt it is an exceptional location , in terms of atmosphere before, during and after matches.
I have attended venues throughout Ireland. Casement is my closest inter county venue, but with due respect to Antrim Gaels, Casement is the most unwelcoming venue I have attended, by some distance.
The surrounding population, pubs and even Casement social club patrons, seem to have a surreal detachment from the actual event. The stewarding is often unhelpful and at worst aggressive.
I can totally empathise with local residents, concerned about loss of light and an extended use of the stadium for concerts etc, and they have every right to challenge aspects of planning. But surely they have to accept that such developments are part and parcel of choosing to live in an urban area, in much the same way as rural residents have to accept that they will always have inferior access to transport, health services, retail etc. Regrettably, I suspect that given the detachment of the local community from Casement, that some of the residents motivation is inherently anti-GAA. It is interesting to note that the residents surrounding Ravenhill and Windsor park have not challenged planning to a similar extent .
The tasteful, iconic venue proposed for Casement park, would have been a long overdue boost to the economy of west Belfast. The potential pride and self confidence generated by  having one of the best venues in Europe has probably been lost.
The Gaa should accept nothing less than the 38000 capacity required to host Ulster finals, and the Judge would need to review his research, to realise that Casement's failure to host sizeable crowds recently , is purely because it hasn't hosted Ulster finals, which are always 30k+ sell outs in a very inaccessible venue , Not to speak of a 60k Ulster final crowd in Croke Park.
It looks like a Casement project to meet our needs is not an option, but the GAA should insist that the £60 million revenue to which they are entitled is freed up to develop their facilities throughout Ulster, including in Belfast, in areas where the ethos of the GAA is appreciated.

Talk of a 20-25k stadium is a non-runner, as that would be wholly inadequate to host Ulster finals, and not meeting the GAAs strategic plan of 40k venue in each province. The £60m funding is for Ulster GAA to provide a flagship provincial venue to meet their needs, in the same way that Ulster rugby and the IFA were provided with finance. The money is not provided to update Antrim GAA's county ground .
Therefore it's a very simple choice :
1. a 38k stadium at Casement,
2. a similar sized stadium elsewhere eg  Ballygawley ,
3. Lobby for the right to utilise the money to which we are entitled , to meet our own needs, eg upgrade Clones or Armagh, and distribute the rest of the money throughout Ulster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 17, 2014, 02:10:49 PM
super post. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 17, 2014, 03:12:22 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 17, 2014, 02:10:49 PM
super post.
Clones is not an option.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
The 17 million of gaa money can be spent where the gaa see fit and would go a long way in upgrading Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on December 17, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
The 17 million of gaa money can be spent where the gaa see fit and would go a long way in upgrading Clones.

But can it be spent across the border?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on December 17, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
The 17 million of gaa money can be spent where the gaa see fit and would go a long way in upgrading Clones.

But can it be spent across the border?
Of course it can most of it has come as far as i know from Croke park the rest from the ulster council
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rashCharacter on December 17, 2014, 03:42:08 PM
I think the GAA stadium strategy should be for shared facilities in urban areas for big championship matches rather than white elephants in every county.
Each county would then have a smaller stadium for club matches/league games etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on December 17, 2014, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on December 17, 2014, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
The 17 million of gaa money can be spent where the gaa see fit and would go a long way in upgrading Clones.

But can it be spent across the border?
Of course it can most of it has come as far as i know from Croke park the rest from the ulster council

Are you sure about that?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Muzz on December 17, 2014, 03:49:06 PM
If he is sure hes wrong...

£61million of the £77 million has come from the British Government
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on December 17, 2014, 03:49:57 PM
Final decision to be annoounced at the High Court tomorrow 2.30pm.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Muzz on December 17, 2014, 03:50:30 PM
I should add that the £61 million will then go to Stormont to be spent on other projects if not used in time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 17, 2014, 04:23:11 PM
Ok so theres still some hope..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on December 17, 2014, 05:12:54 PM
I don't think you'll be far wrong.

DoE will probably fast track the application as they only have to address the issues identified by Mr Justice Horner.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 05:19:54 PM
Quote from: Muzz on December 17, 2014, 03:49:06 PM
If he is sure hes wrong...

£61million of the £77 million has come from the British Government
Oh you of little faith. 61 million from british government the rest coming from gaa. Figures differ depending on which source but this one says 15 million from Gaa.
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news-dcal-191213-multi-million-pound

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on December 17, 2014, 07:31:22 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 05:19:54 PM
Quote from: Muzz on December 17, 2014, 03:49:06 PM
If he is sure hes wrong...

£61million of the £77 million has come from the British Government
Oh you of little faith. 61 million from british government the rest coming from gaa. Figures differ depending on which source but this one says 15 million from Gaa.
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news-dcal-191213-multi-million-pound

That's exactly what Muzz said. I can't expect the British Gov will fund a £61m investment in the south  of Ireland. The £15m from the GAA is hardly going to sway that one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 17, 2014, 07:48:44 PM
Sports Minister Carál Ní Chuilín has said that the £61.4m of government funding for the stalled Casement Park stadium redevelopment is not in danger of being lost to the project.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/gaelic-games/30524089
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 08:20:05 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on December 17, 2014, 07:31:22 PM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 05:19:54 PM
Quote from: Muzz on December 17, 2014, 03:49:06 PM
If he is sure hes wrong...

£61million of the £77 million has come from the British Government
Oh you of little faith. 61 million from british government the rest coming from gaa. Figures differ depending on which source but this one says 15 million from Gaa.
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news-dcal-191213-multi-million-pound


That's exactly what Muzz said. I can't expect the British Gov will fund a £61m investment in the south  of Ireland. The £15m from the GAA is hardly going to sway that one.
I was referring to the 16-17 million that the Gaa was due to put into this project and never mentioned the british government money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 09:26:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 17, 2014, 09:09:32 PM
I don't think the GAA has any intention of investing this money into Clones. They are only willing to stump up that cash as a top up on the 61 million.
I am aware that plans were in place to improve access to the pitch in Clones prior to the arse falling out of the southern economy. If this project in Casement falls through in its present form and the british money is distributed to the wee six counties why not ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 18, 2014, 09:14:08 AM
So we'll hear today i presume.

Not sure what the compromise will be if it comes to light, the GAA need a 30-35k stadium and anything less and it probably isn't viable for them. Clones whilst I enjoy the trips there (not the traffic) a modern state of the art stadium makes far more sense strategically for the GAA to be in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 18, 2014, 09:34:41 AM
Quote from: cluaineois on December 17, 2014, 09:26:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 17, 2014, 09:09:32 PM
I don't think the GAA has any intention of investing this money into Clones. They are only willing to stump up that cash as a top up on the 61 million.
I am aware that plans were in place to improve access to the pitch in Clones prior to the arse falling out of the southern economy. If this project in Casement falls through in its present form and the british money is distributed to the wee six counties why not ?

Casement in its present form to get kicked into touch today is what I'm hearing..


As for developing Clones, well any state of the art modern stadium will not survive on a few big football gates in a year and will need to be multi-functional, concerts, conferences and what not. Clones does not have the infrastructure, hotels, etc etc to facilitate that and won't happen, it'd be pure folly.

Its a Greater Belfast site or bust I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on December 18, 2014, 10:07:31 AM
I much prefer Clones as a venue for Ulster Finals, the atmosphere, the town, the craic, I fear a lot of this will be lost if the thing is moved to Belfast,

but for the future development of the GAA in Ulster then the thing has to go to Belfast.  I'm not overly enthusiastic about Andersonstown to put it mildly, but we have to promote the GAA in Belfast.  The GAA is the North's biggest and best sporting organisation.  Today the Belfast Telegraph printed their Top10 sporting highlights of 2014, The GAA didn't feature at all!  By ignoring Belfast we are never going to fulfill the true potential of Gaelic Games in the North.  They cannot treat us as a minority sport when over 30,000 are regularly attending matches in Belfast.  With big attendances comes confidence and the ability for people to display more openly their pride in Irish and Gaelic culture.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 18, 2014, 10:24:07 AM
It has to be in Belfast I agree, whether that is Casement or not is another question.
I can't believe it's still ongoing with Ravenhill now fully developed and Windsor I hear near completion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2014, 10:29:51 AM
If its not going to be bigger than 30-32000 then it is pointless. Time to look elsewhere in Belfast unfortunately potential sites are few and far between. Other blogs have looked at Titanic quarter, North foreshore and even the Maze. Cant see Musgrave park being allowed and Im pretty sure the parks in West Belfast are too small
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on December 18, 2014, 11:11:58 AM
Would Boucher playing feilds across the M1 not be an option? they already hold a major concert there every year with Tennants vital
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 18, 2014, 12:10:00 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 11:48:41 AM
How much will it cost to acquire the land elsewhere in Belfast? Antrim GAA have given them Casement Park for nothing.

A fair whack I'd imagine for prime real estate on Boucher Road. Restart planning permission process etc..

If Casement Park project doesn't go ahead and is confined to the history books the biggest losers will be the businesses of West Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on December 18, 2014, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on December 18, 2014, 10:07:31 AM
I much prefer Clones as a venue for Ulster Finals, the atmosphere, the town, the craic, I fear a lot of this will be lost if the thing is moved to Belfast,

but for the future development of the GAA in Ulster then the thing has to go to Belfast.  I'm not overly enthusiastic about Andersonstown to put it mildly, but we have to promote the GAA in Belfast.  The GAA is the North's biggest and best sporting organisation.  Today the Belfast Telegraph printed their Top10 sporting highlights of 2014, The GAA didn't feature at all!  By ignoring Belfast we are never going to fulfill the true potential of Gaelic Games in the North.  They cannot treat us as a minority sport when over 30,000 are regularly attending matches in Belfast.  With big attendances comes confidence and the ability for people to display more openly their pride in Irish and Gaelic culture.

"I much prefer Clones as a venue for Ulster Finals, the atmosphere, the town, the craic, I fear a lot of this will be lost if the thing is moved to Belfast"
I couldn't agree more! Many complain about the traffic and parking around Clones but would these things be any easier in Andersonstown; probably not! Clones carries years of Ulster Final tradition which Casement couldn't come close to matching.

I can't agree with you about 30,000 regularly attending games in Belfast; apart from the Ulster Final no other game would attract this figure. Forget about this development of Casement and divide the funds instead among  the clubs in Ulster, most of which are struggling just to keep their heads above water!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 18, 2014, 01:31:15 PM
I thought the money was purely available for the development of a stadium and that it couldn't be divided up amongst clubs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 18, 2014, 02:20:51 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on December 18, 2014, 01:31:15 PM
I thought the money was purely available for the development of a stadium and that it couldn't be divided up amongst clubs.

Correct. Its time people stopped talking nonsense about redirecting this that and the other money to Dunsilly, coaching and clubs and lord knows what ever.

The British Government funding is purely for a one off Stadium, not for the Ulster Council to spend as they would want.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on December 18, 2014, 03:10:27 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 18, 2014, 02:20:51 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on December 18, 2014, 01:31:15 PM
I thought the money was purely available for the development of a stadium and that it couldn't be divided up amongst clubs.

Correct. Its time people stopped talking nonsense about redirecting this that and the other money to Dunsilly, coaching and clubs and lord knows what ever.

The British Government funding is purely for a one off Stadium, not for the Ulster Council to spend as they would want.

I genuinely don't know what the restrictions on the funding are, but my understanding is that the three regional governing bodies were allocated money for capital projects, pro-rata , presumably from monies that would otherwise have been used on the Maze project. The governing bodies then submitted how they would wish to use the money: Ulster rugby decided to develop Ravenhill. IFA decided to use some for Windsor and the rest for other projects throughout the six counties.
Surely if we have to shelve Casement (which is quite likely as the 38k+ Stadium required to host Ulster finals looks a nonrunner in Casement) it will be back to the drawing board. Surely Stormont can not demand that we must use the money for a downsized Casement stadium, that wouldn't meet our needs, especially since the IFA were permitted the opportunity to use some of their allocation on other projects. Remember these are monies to which we are entitled , and the fact that our very reasonable plans to upgrade an existing stadium, have been scuppered by unforeseen planning problems, should not leave us hamstrung. I think any attempt to shoehorn the GAA into developing a stadium not fit for purpose, would be politically unacceptable.
So in short , options should be Casement at 38k, or elsewhere at 38k+(new build or upgrade of an existing stadium) +/- allocation of some of our entitlement on other projects. PS Personally, I wouldn't be against using most of the money for other projects , and having future Ulster finals in the further developed Croke park complex, which is currently underused, and hosted the best attended Ulster final in history only a few years ago! We have developed quality stadia in most counties, Surely now directing money into more local projects , will give us a better return in terms of development of our association.
Title: Ceart
Post by: drici on December 18, 2014, 03:26:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 17, 2014, 03:57:39 PM

Tomorrow the judge will quash the planning decision. The GAA will apply again for planning permission for a 38,000 seater stadium at Casement Park with the JR concerns addressed.


100% correct.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2014, 03:58:17 PM
Build it an they will come...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on December 18, 2014, 04:03:52 PM
So who pays for the JR? Do the residents still get stung for their own costs?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2014, 04:06:15 PM
The judge has already made it quite clear that capacity for the area is an issue for him so I dont see how a new planning permission with all the i's dotted and t's crossed will make any difference. As noted before also a little concerned that the judge seemed a bit clueless about the GAA. Best to leave Casement altogether, at this rate the whole 77 million will be blown on legal fees.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2014, 04:07:34 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on December 18, 2014, 04:03:52 PM
So who pays for the JR? Do the residents still get stung for their own costs?

Article in the 'tele' saying the residents will have to pay towards the JR because of the length of time it has taken.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2014, 04:09:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2014, 04:07:34 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on December 18, 2014, 04:03:52 PM
So who pays for the JR? Do the residents still get stung for their own costs?

Article in the 'tele' saying the residents will have to pay towards the JR because of the length of time it has taken.

The first 35000 is covered and after that it is from the residents pockets. How much that is I dont know!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 18, 2014, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2014, 04:06:15 PM
The judge has already made it quite clear that capacity for the area is an issue for him so I dont see how a new planning permission with all the i's dotted and t's crossed will make any difference. As noted before also a little concerned that the judge seemed a bit clueless about the GAA. Best to leave Casement altogether, at this rate the whole 77 million will be blown on legal fees.

Was he not basing his rationale that the Stadium proposed was much larger than required due to the fact that its almost 20 years since its stage an Ulster final and hence attendances at the ground were no where near 38K?

If so whoever was representing the Ulster Council did a very poor job of getting across that current Ulster finals regularly get such attendances and peaking in the early noughties in 60 plus thousand going to one in Croke Park.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on December 18, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
I don't see anything in the judgement ruling out a 36,000 capacity. The DoE just have to do the impact assessments properly based on that figure against the numbers who have been attending matches in Casement in recent years. When the assessments are complete the GAA will have to address any issues arising. That's the process.
If the residents remain unhappy after another decision to approve has been issued they can go for another JR and so on we go!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 18, 2014, 04:47:12 PM
The Judge cannot rule on planning policy. He only considers and rules on the planning process and whether or not the planners have followed it correctly. If the permission is quashed then by running the application again and correcting all the omissions and not creating new ones then it is quite feasible that permission can be granted. In that case assuming that every thing is correctly done there would be no grounds on which to grant a judicial review. If in running the necessary consultations and impact assessments it transpires that the area can only accommodate a stadium of a certain capacity a JR would only be likely if the results of these assessments are ignored, unless of course there is work done which mitigates the effect of any increase in capacity. The judge does not have the power to adjudicate on wheter a decision is contrary to planning law...only on the process which first time around had a number of flaws.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Down Follower on December 18, 2014, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 18, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
I don't see anything in the judgement ruling out a 36,000 capacity. The DoE just have to do the impact assessments properly based on that figure against the numbers who have been attending matches in Casement in recent years. When the assessments are complete the GAA will have to address any issues arising. That's the process.
If the residents remain unhappy after another decision to approve has been issued they can go for another JR and so on we go!

Exactly, if you read the judgement, it is saying that the DoE did not complete the proper appraisals on a 38,000 capacity. It was basing its appraisals on much lower figures.  Likewise Road Service.
The judge does not state that 38,000 is too big.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 18, 2014, 04:52:03 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 18, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
I don't see anything in the judgement ruling out a 36,000 capacity. The DoE just have to do the impact assessments properly based on that figure against the numbers who have been attending matches in Casement in recent years. When the assessments are complete the GAA will have to address any issues arising. That's the process.
If the residents remain unhappy after another decision to approve has been issued they can go for another JR and so on we go!

Residents aware demanding lower capacity due to crowd and traffic dispersion  and building prominence
We could call it Garth brooks syndrome
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2014, 05:09:44 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2014, 04:06:15 PM
The judge has already made it quite clear that capacity for the area is an issue for him so I dont see how a new planning permission with all the i's dotted and t's crossed will make any difference.

It isn't within the Judges competence to "feel" about capacity, his role is to say that a proper impact assessment had not been drawn up.
In Britain there are crowds each week of this order in top soccer clubs, the Aviva and Croke Park are in residential areas. There is a case, it is just the the case was not competently presented.

The rugby world cup bid should be used to enhance this plan. Any submission to the rugby people will probably require some input from Translink, PSNI etc that people can be moved around successfully and this is type of information that will support a proper case.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on December 18, 2014, 06:25:19 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 18, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
I don't see anything in the judgement ruling out a 36,000 capacity. The DoE just have to do the impact assessments properly based on that figure against the numbers who have been attending matches in Casement in recent years. When the assessments are complete the GAA will have to address any issues arising. That's the process.
If the residents remain unhappy after another decision to approve has been issued they can go for another JR and so on we go!
At last someone who seems to know what they are talking about.. If the planning concerns are addressed and the go ahead is given the residents of course have the right to a judicial review. But that may or may not be granted . Their case has to go back before the judge and he will decide whether or not their case is strong enough to grant them a JR. If not the stadium goes ahead with planning issues addressed  If he thinks their case is still strong enough then and only then  he will grant them a JR .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on December 18, 2014, 06:31:51 PM
Hence the word"if"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 06:41:18 PM
Who pays the residents legal expenses? I assume these judicial reviews aren't cheap.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 18, 2014, 06:44:43 PM
Victory for democracy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rionach 4 on December 18, 2014, 06:51:03 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 06:41:18 PM
Who pays the residents legal expenses? I assume these judicial reviews aren't cheap.
A judicial review can be granted legal aid if it the case being presented is first of all strong enough to warrant a review. Legal aid can be given in varying circumstances . In educational Judicial reviews a child may be put forward and as such legal aid is granted. If the residents choose an individual to represent their case legal aid can be granted if that person's financial  circumstances are deemed insufficient. Unemployed ,income support etc. The judge may in circumstances dictate the responsibility of payment like he did in the previous case. Each case merits its own requirements. I'm sure the residents have this well covered.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 18, 2014, 07:01:22 PM
Quote from: rionach 4 on December 18, 2014, 06:51:03 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 06:41:18 PM
Who pays the residents legal expenses? I assume these judicial reviews aren't cheap.
A judicial review can be granted legal aid if it the case being presented is first of all strong enough to warrant a review. Legal aid can be given in varying circumstances . In educational Judicial reviews a child may be put forward and as such legal aid is granted. If the residents choose an individual to represent their case legal aid can be granted if that person's financial  circumstances are deemed insufficient. Unemployed ,income support etc. The judge may in circumstances dictate the responsibility of payment like he did in the previous case. Each case merits its own requirements. I'm sure the residents have this well covered.

Very informative
I take it this your forte this stuff
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kid Twist on December 18, 2014, 07:34:00 PM
The purpose of a planning JR is not for the judge to assess the planning merits of a decision but more so to judge upon whether the planning authority took into account all materials considerations when arriving at their decision. As such Justice Horner has highlighted the issues which were not proporly considered.

The DOE will now have an opportunity to consider those matters and make a new decision. If they properly consider all those matters and arrive at a decision to approve it unlikely that there will any further grounds for review. The residents best hope is that the DOE decide that the information not originally considered sways their opinion on planning merit and that they either seek a reduction or refuse.
This will be the decision of Mark H.

I know which outcome that I would place my money on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 18, 2014, 08:04:22 PM
Quote from: Kid Twist on December 18, 2014, 07:34:00 PM
The purpose of a planning JR is not for the judge to assess the planning merits of a decision but more so to judge upon whether the planning authority took into account all materials considerations when arriving at their decision. As such Justice Horner has highlighted the issues which were not proporly considered.

The DOE will now have an opportunity to consider those matters and make a new decision. If they properly consider all those matters and arrive at a decision to approve it unlikely that there will any further grounds for review. The residents best hope is that the DOE decide that the information not originally considered sways their opinion on planning merit and that they either seek a reduction or refuse.
This will be the decision of Mark H.

I know which outcome that I would place my money on.

I am no legal expert but you and a few others seem confident this will still happen. If that is the case then surely the residents have been poorly informed. Should they not have been told at an early stage to take the compensation or is this all just some sort of game to try and  squeeze a bit more cash out of the GAA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
Even when they don't take a pay off and put forward their own money for a JR, it's all a big ploy to get some cash.

Are you certain they paid for the JR themselves?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 18, 2014, 09:00:49 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
Even when they don't take a pay off and put forward their own money for a JR, it's all a big ploy to get some cash.

Are you certain they paid for the JR themselves?

An article in the back page of The Irish News today says they did. It also said the GAA approached them with an offer to compensate them, as though this was a compromise, and it was declined.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 09:06:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: babarino on December 18, 2014, 09:00:49 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
Even when they don't take a pay off and put forward their own money for a JR, it's all a big ploy to get some cash.

Are you certain they paid for the JR themselves?

An article in the back page of The Irish News today says they did. It also said the GAA approached them with an offer to compensate them, as though this was a compromise, and it was declined.
Correct.

Must be true if it's in the Irish News.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 18, 2014, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 09:06:30 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
Quote from: babarino on December 18, 2014, 09:00:49 PM
Quote from: Agent Orange on December 18, 2014, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
Even when they don't take a pay off and put forward their own money for a JR, it's all a big ploy to get some cash.

Are you certain they paid for the JR themselves?

An article in the back page of The Irish News today says they did. It also said the GAA approached them with an offer to compensate them, as though this was a compromise, and it was declined.
Correct.

Must be true if it's in the Irish News.

The article was written by Paddy Heaney. From what I can gather he's full square behind the GAA's plans for Casement.

He'd hardly be spinning a line that counters his own position. The spin came with the insinuation that this was the GAA being reasonable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: paddyo1 on December 18, 2014, 11:25:00 PM
I,m confused, the GAA have said that they have fully complied with planners all along,yet we have arrived at this ridiculous situation. Don't know who the architects are but they're laughing all the way to the credit union!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 18, 2014, 11:30:28 PM
There was an article in the Irish News months ago saying that the residents group were granted a protective order to limit their costs to £10k and I think one individual committed at the time to paying this. Here is the equivalent Tele article.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gaa-casement-park-stadium-row-residents-group-wont-face-crippling-bill-if-it-loses-legal-battle-30361977.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gaa-casement-park-stadium-row-residents-group-wont-face-crippling-bill-if-it-loses-legal-battle-30361977.html)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 18, 2014, 11:36:08 PM
The big problem for the GAA here is that Casement Park is on the wrong side of the Andytown Road. Victory for the aspirational middle class of WB.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 18, 2014, 11:43:01 PM
WTF!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 18, 2014, 11:51:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 18, 2014, 11:36:08 PM
The big problem for the GAA here is that Casement Park is on the wrong side of the Andytown Road. Victory for the aspirational middle class of WB.

Absolute bollocks. Have you spoken to the residents?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 12:29:49 AM
There's at least one club on the other side of the road about to fold because they can't attract new members. This development would have been a God send to them in terms of highlighting the GAA throughout west Belfast and beyond. But no, the middle class wannabe's over the other side of the road couldn't be having any blurring of the lines between them and the great unwashed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2014, 12:53:54 AM
When Casement Park was built so much money was collected from the people of Belfast that it was built bigger than planned. Now the people of Belfast have gathered together to drive it out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 19, 2014, 01:11:08 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 12:29:49 AM
There's at least one club on the other side of the road about to fold because they can't attract new members. This development would have been a God send to them in terms of highlighting the GAA throughout west Belfast and beyond. But no, the middle class wannabe's over the other side of the road couldn't be having any blurring of the lines between them and the great unwashed.

Ignoring literacy problems, it appears you haven't a notion what or who you are talking about.

I received a message this evening from a 'resident' who hopes Casement will be rebuilt with the concerns of the locals addressed adequately and professionally as opposed to being dismissed, ridiculed or ignored. This person, if you want to go the class route as is your want, is earning a lot less than you or me but simply wants fair play for those directly involved.

So, if you're not prepared to present specifics and instead spout disappointing generalisations then I suggest your words are as barren as Armagh's All-Ireland tally.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 19, 2014, 01:24:55 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2014, 12:53:54 AM
When Casement Park was built so much money was collected from the people of Belfast that it was built bigger than planned. Now the people of Belfast have gathered together to drive it out.

I interviewed Sean McGettigan in his house a few years before he passed away. He told me the story of him walking down the road with a cheque in his hand for the construction of Casement Park. He struck me as a man who wanted the best for Antrim GAA but would never be taken for a fool, especially when it came to commercialism.

Two stories I remember - he wasn't a fan of the cult of the celeb in Brolly/O'Rourke/Spillane and thought the half time break would be better served showing highlights. He also thought journalists had lost their way with trying to write fairytales instead of sticking to conditions, crowd, how the game was won and how the game was lost.

The people of Belfast have not gathered to drive it out. Maybe the GAA have learned a vital lesson here in humility and professionalism.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on December 19, 2014, 06:23:43 AM
This Casement Park catastrophe could quickly become known as "The Balls -up on the Falls"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 19, 2014, 06:29:55 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on December 19, 2014, 06:23:43 AM
This Casement Park catastrophe could quickly become known as "The Balls -up on the Falls"

was that not Gerry Adams?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 07:39:39 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 19, 2014, 01:11:08 AM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 12:29:49 AM
There's at least one club on the other side of the road about to fold because they can't attract new members. This development would have been a God send to them in terms of highlighting the GAA throughout west Belfast and beyond. But no, the middle class wannabe's over the other side of the road couldn't be having any blurring of the lines between them and the great unwashed.

Ignoring literacy problems, it appears you haven't a notion what or who you are talking about.

I received a message this evening from a 'resident' who hopes Casement will be rebuilt with the concerns of the locals addressed adequately and professionally as opposed to being dismissed, ridiculed or ignored. This person, if you want to go the class route as is your want, is earning a lot less than you or me but simply wants fair play for those directly involved.

So, if you're not prepared to present specifics and instead spout disappointing generalisations then I suggest your words are as barren as Armagh's All-Ireland tally.

Calm down pettle. If you can't conduct a discussion without resorting to insults then you're not worth it. There were no generalisations in what I posted. The residents group are mostly from the posh side of the road and on the other side of the road St Teresa's are very close to folding - the social club has already been shut.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bo Man on December 19, 2014, 08:34:35 AM
The residents in and around this stadium have no interest in Casement Park being  This was a victory for the SDLP in west Belfast. These great west belfast Irish men and women will return to what they do best. Watching the English premiership. Ulster GAA should submit a new planning application for a 60,000 seat stadium the next time around.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 19, 2014, 08:47:45 AM
Quote from: Bo Man on December 19, 2014, 08:34:35 AM
The residents in and around this stadium have no interest in Casement Park being  This was a victory for the SDLP in west Belfast. These great west belfast Irish men and women will return to what they do best. Watching the English premiership. Ulster GAA should submit a new planning application for a 60,000 seat stadium the next time around.
Reasoned response.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 19, 2014, 08:50:32 AM
Mark Durkan who is getting all the grief at the minute and gave the project the green light is in the SDLP. Likewise plenty of photos on The Casement facebook page of Carál Ní Chuilín with Tim Attwood SDLP at the launch of the project. The only elected representative I know who has made it clear he was dead against this project is Gerry Carrol of People before profit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 19, 2014, 09:08:45 AM
Breaking news re-design likely to be given the all clear

(http://www.footballgroundguide.com/wales/afan-lido/afon-lido-main-stand.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 19, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
There's an air of desperation about the repeated claim in the media, that the Irish RWC bid is in jeopardy because of the scuppered plans...as if this one-off event is a major deciding factor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2014, 09:42:03 AM
Quote from: Bo Man on December 19, 2014, 08:34:35 AM
The residents in and around this stadium have no interest in Casement Park being  This was a victory for the SDLP in west Belfast. These great west belfast Irish men and women will return to what they do best. Watching the English premiership. Ulster GAA should submit a new planning application for a 60,000 seat stadium the next time around.

Note to self, problems with application for a 38k seater  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 19, 2014, 09:43:48 AM
Quote from: babarino on December 19, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
There's an air of desperation about the repeated claim in the media, that the Irish RWC bid is in jeopardy because of the scuppered plans...as if this one-off event is a major deciding factor.

Also highly suspicious of reports of Social housing developments sniffing around being reported in the local Daily Star.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 19, 2014, 09:44:09 AM
Quote from: babarino on December 19, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
There's an air of desperation about the repeated claim in the media, that the Irish RWC bid is in jeopardy because of the scuppered plans...as if this one-off event is a major deciding factor.

I think deep down people know that getting things done in all of Ireland can be a bit of a ball ache. 2023 may seem a long way away but it will be here before you know it. On the GAA side of things for the bid to be successfull we are looking at a new GAA stadium in Belfast wherever that may or may not be the new Pairc ui Chaoimh and the modernising of about 4 other GAA grounds and obviously Croke for the semis and final. We all know about Casement. The Pairc ui Chaoimh revamp has been talked about for years and seriously discussed for at least 6 but like Casement has been delayed again and again you can either blame residents and the save the Marina Park crowd or you can blame incompetent or greedy GAA or more to the point Frank Murphy, take your pick. Work is due to start next year but Im not saying anything until I see the diggers in. I can expect similar problems in all the other grounds be it light, asbestos, knotweed, endangerd species, traffic, noise, themmuns get everythin we get nahim brigade, ebola. The new Aviva had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get built hence the ridiculoulsy low stand at one end for lighting issues. Even Ravenhill wasnt without its problems I can remember one resident being concerned that everyone would be looking through his windows and not watching the rugby as if and also the old stand allegedly housed bats so couldnt be touched until the bats conveniently disappeared or maybe never even existed in the first place. I think all in all the time it will take us to get organised a bid in 2123 is more likely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 19, 2014, 10:26:12 AM
It's all duck or no dinner for the backers of the development plan as it stands. (while what was there is supposed to be rubble)

A 25,000-capacity stadium, wouldn't be adequate for Ulster Finals, but it would be more than adequate for County Antrim needs and all matches currently played within the province of Ulster apart from the football final.

It would also make Casement the biggest seated stadium in Belfast and Ulster, with far more crowd capacity than the refurbished Windsor Park (soccer) or Ravenhill Road (rugby). That should be more than adequate for Ireland's bid for the Rugby World Cup, as if that's a clincher.

Has anybody a current picture of Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 19, 2014, 10:52:10 AM
Could they get single-farm payment? They are able to bale it so maybe we will see cattle and shep being herded up the Andytown Road for grazing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cockahoop on December 19, 2014, 10:57:48 AM
between social club memebers and residents the casement project has continually run up against a brick wall,as i have said before if these people are so blind sided to realise the regeneration this would create in the area its not worth the trouble,as i have said before let the place rot for a few years and become a local hang out spot for the druggies and the rats and the local residents will soon change there tune.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 19, 2014, 11:13:44 AM
Quote from: babarino on December 19, 2014, 10:26:12 AM
It's all duck or no dinner for the backers of the development plan as it stands. (while what was there is supposed to be rubble)

A 25,000-capacity stadium, wouldn't be adequate for Ulster Finals, but it would be more than adequate for County Antrim needs and all matches currently played within the province of Ulster apart from the football final.

It would also make Casement the biggest seated stadium in Belfast and Ulster, with far more crowd capacity than the refurbished Windsor Park (soccer) or Ravenhill Road (rugby). That should be more than adequate for Ireland's bid for the Rugby World Cup, as if that's a clincher.

Has anybody a current picture of Casement?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B41OeE5CUAAv0Qw.png:large)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4FoYfGCYAIFDaP.jpg:large)

Im sure this has been answered before but why can they not dig down to reduce the height?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
The water table is too high.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2014, 08:10:05 AM
How could Casement have saved St Teresa's social club? You've lost the run of yourself.

Posh -  ;D

If that's what I had said, maybe, but as it's not, well, I wouldn't have thought so.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on December 19, 2014, 12:44:53 PM
Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B41OeE5CUAAv0Qw.png:large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4FoYfGCYAIFDaP.jpg:large)
Are these recent? I thought they had auctioned off all the stuff that could be used elsewhere? Who got the lights?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2014, 12:12:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
The water table is too high.
Really? I'm almost certain that the residents were told that this wasn't the case.

Btw, stop trying to blame the residents on the current struggles that clubs are suffering. It's nonsense and you know that.

I did not do that, "and you know that". I suggested that the Casement development would be a shot in the arm of the GAA city wide in Belfast - where many clubs are struggling - and it would. For some reason you and O'Neill, have taken that as criticism of the residents goups and taken personal offence. Why you two have appointed youselves Gaaboard spokeswomen for these groups I can't begin to fathom, but for fucks sake there's no need for the righteous indignation at every turn.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on December 19, 2014, 01:20:33 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on December 19, 2014, 12:44:53 PM
Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B41OeE5CUAAv0Qw.png:large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4FoYfGCYAIFDaP.jpg:large)
Are these recent? I thought they had auctioned off all the stuff that could be used elsewhere? Who got the lights?
The lights are still up AFAIK
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 19, 2014, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
The water table is too high.

I wouldn't have thought so Ulick. There are houses behind Casement that are much lower as well as the whole ground falls to M1 so you can rule the water table out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 03:52:46 PM
Quote from: rionach 4 on December 18, 2014, 06:25:19 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 18, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
I don't see anything in the judgement ruling out a 36,000 capacity. The DoE just have to do the impact assessments properly based on that figure against the numbers who have been attending matches in Casement in recent years. When the assessments are complete the GAA will have to address any issues arising. That's the process.
If the residents remain unhappy after another decision to approve has been issued they can go for another JR and so on we go!
At last someone who seems to know what they are talking about.. If the planning concerns are addressed and the go ahead is given the residents of course have the right to a judicial review. But that may or may not be granted . Their case has to go back before the judge and he will decide whether or not their case is strong enough to grant them a JR. If not the stadium goes ahead with planning issues addressed  If he thinks their case is still strong enough then and only then  he will grant them a JR .
No no one has a right to a JR. You must seek leave, leave will only be granted if you can show the Judge at the leave hearing tha you have grounds for the JR. If the process is completed again and all the grounds from the current one addressed then there is little likelihood of a new JR.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 03:55:00 PM
Quote from: paddyo1 on December 18, 2014, 11:25:00 PM
I,m confused, the GAA have said that they have fully complied with planners all along,yet we have arrived at this ridiculous situation. Don't know who the architects are but they're laughing all the way to the credit union!
The JR was not taken against the GAA but the department. The GAA did comply with what was requested it was the planners who did not set in place the necessary impact assessments and environmental reports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 04:02:39 PM
You do have to wonder at people in West Belfast, this is the second major investment they have spurned.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 19, 2014, 04:08:12 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 19, 2014, 09:08:45 AM
Breaking news re-design likely to be given the all clear

(http://www.footballgroundguide.com/wales/afan-lido/afon-lido-main-stand.jpg)

Sorry that's to big it's obscuring my view of that mountain, can we have it bit lower
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2014, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 03:55:00 PM
Quote from: paddyo1 on December 18, 2014, 11:25:00 PM
I,m confused, the GAA have said that they have fully complied with planners all along,yet we have arrived at this ridiculous situation. Don't know who the architects are but they're laughing all the way to the credit union!
The JR was not taken against the GAA but the department. The GAA did comply with what was requested it was the planners who did not set in place the necessary impact assessments and environmental reports.
You'd have to wonder why. The residents I have spoken to have always claimed that had these assessments been considered by the planners then planning permission wouldn't have been granted. The residents winning the JR was not simply a technicality that these assessments were overlooked. The residents are confident that the contents of these assessments are damning of a 38,000 seater stadium on the Casement Park site.

We will see.
That we cannot know because they weren't done correctly. However if they are done correctly they will show what needs to be done to get 38,000 over the line, the point of the assessments is to ensure that the development is carried out in a way that mitigates problems. Most problems can be addressed at a cost. It could happen that the assessments might say that a 38,000 seater should not be allowed on the basis of infrastructure, if that issue is addressed either by building infrastructure as required or through planning and management it is hard to see where the residents can go. Personally I believe if enough cash is waved at the residents the problems will disappear.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 19, 2014, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2014, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 19, 2014, 03:55:00 PM
Quote from: paddyo1 on December 18, 2014, 11:25:00 PM
I,m confused, the GAA have said that they have fully complied with planners all along,yet we have arrived at this ridiculous situation. Don't know who the architects are but they're laughing all the way to the credit union!
The JR was not taken against the GAA but the department. The GAA did comply with what was requested it was the planners who did not set in place the necessary impact assessments and environmental reports.
You'd have to wonder why. The residents I have spoken to have always claimed that had these assessments been considered by the planners then planning permission wouldn't have been granted. The residents winning the JR was not simply a technicality that these assessments were overlooked. The residents are confident that the contents of these assessments are damning of a 38,000 seater stadium on the Casement Park site.

We will see.
That we cannot know because they weren't done correctly. However if they are done correctly they will show what needs to be done to get 38,000 over the line, the point of the assessments is to ensure that the development is carried out in a way that mitigates problems. Most problems can be addressed at a cost. It could happen that the assessments might say that a 38,000 seater should not be allowed on the basis of infrastructure, if that issue is addressed either by building infrastructure as required or through planning and management it is hard to see where the residents can go. Personally I believe if enough cash is waved at the residents the problems will disappear.

Thanks for a professional view on the subject
Your last sentence is probably the thought in everyone's head
If financial compensation is the real motive then I think there a disgrace
And negates the "a mans home is his castle " type self righteousness
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 19, 2014, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2014, 04:23:23 PM
It's some risk to turn down compensation, then put up your own dough for a JR which you have no guarantee of winning if your end goal is more compensation. No?

That's fair enough
Was it turned down on moral grounds or is wasn't enough slice of the 70 odd million
What's the average price of house beside casment, how much would the new infrastructure devalue their house. Was what they where offered less or more
Your better informed on the whole scenario than me so I'll take your word for it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 19, 2014, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
The water table is too high.

I wouldn't have thought so Ulick. There are houses behind Casement that are much lower as well as the whole ground falls to M1 so you can rule the water table out.

Someone on the radio gave that as the reason a while back. As I remember the current plans still have them digging down quite a bit, bit to go further was going to involve going into the water table or some underground river or something. Also if you look over to Casement when you are coming in on the M1, the ground itself is below your eye-line i.e. doesn't seem to be on much of a rise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2014, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 19, 2014, 04:23:23 PM
It's some risk to turn down compensation, then put up your own dough for a JR which you have no guarantee of winning if your end goal is more compensation. No?

perhaps they were advised by Sean Quinn?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 19, 2014, 05:39:58 PM
Would say some of the local politicians are pushing it so hard, with an eye on their cronies getting involved in areas like security etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 19, 2014, 08:34:53 PM
Paddy Heaney enlightens us with his take on the controversy. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/paddy-heaney-compromise-key-to-solving-casement-park-conundrum-303175.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/paddy-heaney-compromise-key-to-solving-casement-park-conundrum-303175.html)

In summary - it's a tiny minority in the 180 houses beside Casement that are opposed to the plans. Generally they're happy with the compensation that the GAA is offering and it'll get sorted. It had better get sorted quick or their homes will be rat infested.

Some influential GAA figures feel that the money should be ploughed into Clones. "The powers-that-be in Croke Park have a responsibility to publicly voice their support for Casement Park." (As if they haven't been doing so)

There's an "incredible amount of ignorance".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 19, 2014, 08:43:40 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 19, 2014, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Ulick on December 19, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
The water table is too high.

I wouldn't have thought so Ulick. There are houses behind Casement that are much lower as well as the whole ground falls to M1 so you can rule the water table out.

Someone on the radio gave that as the reason a while back. As I remember the current plans still have them digging down quite a bit, bit to go further was going to involve going into the water table or some underground river or something. Also if you look over to Casement when you are coming in on the M1, the ground itself is below your eye-line i.e. doesn't seem to be on much of a rise.
Was there not talk of an underground car park? Maybe that didn't make the final plan.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 19, 2014, 08:45:34 PM
Quote from: babarino on December 19, 2014, 08:34:53 PM
Paddy Heaney's enlightens us with his take on the controversy. http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/paddy-heaney-compromise-key-to-solving-casement-park-conundrum-303175.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/paddy-heaney-compromise-key-to-solving-casement-park-conundrum-303175.html)

In summary - it's a tiny minority in the 180 houses beside Casement that are opposed to the plans. Generally they're happy with the compensation that the GAA is offering and it'll get sorted. It had better get sorted quick or their homes will be rat infested.

Some influential GAA figures feel that the money should be ploughed into Clones. "The powers-that-be in Croke Park have a responsibility to publicly voice their support for Casement Park." (As if they haven't been doing so)

There's an "incredible amount of ignorance".
Why would their homes be rat infested because they're beside an unused field? Sure it was only ever occupied a few days a year before it was closed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 19, 2014, 09:24:36 PM
Re the "regeneration of West Belfast" - i am sure the locals are salivating at all the minimum wage jobs that will come with the new Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 19, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
Some jobs are better than none and I think its fair to say there will be a mix of part time and full time work and contrary to what was said earlier it wont all be voluntary. On match day there could be hundreds of stewards and if it has a well run conference centre then it will require a large catering and bar staff. Pretty sure a stadium that size is also going to need maintenance staff, technicians/electricians and of course the grounds men. Not too sure if the stadium will have a shop and museum but if it does that is more jobs. Lets not forget if the stadium is a success then it may help attract other business into the area but feck that it all sounds like too much hassle we all know everybody in Northern Ireland is scared stiff of any sort of change and there are too many jobs in West Belfast anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 19, 2014, 10:24:29 PM
Ideas for the Casement Park museum?

1. The ball Tohill caught over the bar
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 19, 2014, 10:34:34 PM
St Pauls v Cargin county final 1999
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: screenexile on December 19, 2014, 11:01:38 PM
Have spoken to one or 2 people involved and it seems that Antrim GAA have put the nails in their own coffin. They went in with all guns blazing with the social club and then with the residents group then when the contractors and Ulster GAA became involved and advised them it was a case of throwing a few quid at it ultimately they'd fucked everyone off too much for a resolution.

Is it true there are only 11 families with objections??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 19, 2014, 11:59:38 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 19, 2014, 11:01:38 PM
Have spoken to one or 2 people involved and it seems that Antrim GAA have put the nails in their own coffin. They went in with all guns blazing with the social club and then with the residents group then when the contractors and Ulster GAA became involved and advised them it was a case of throwing a few quid at it ultimately they'd fucked everyone off too much for a resolution.

Is it true there are only 11 families with objections??

Good question. Is this a tiny, very effective group, or is there broad opposition in West Belfast to the Ulster Council's plans for Casement? Some are saying the opposition boosted Gerry Carroll's vote (People Before Profit) in the last council elections.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: macdanger2 on December 20, 2014, 12:00:15 AM
Wouldn't know much details on this other than what I've read here but it sounds like whoever was running this has made a complete f*ck of it. The residents are entitled to a say and to the proper planning process being followed. It sounds like it wasn't and they objected but that doesn't make it their c**k up
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 20, 2014, 12:37:41 AM
Quote from: ONeill on December 19, 2014, 01:24:55 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2014, 12:53:54 AM
When Casement Park was built so much money was collected from the people of Belfast that it was built bigger than planned. Now the people of Belfast have gathered together to drive it out.

I interviewed Sean McGettigan in his house a few years before he passed away. He told me the story of him walking down the road with a cheque in his hand for the construction of Casement Park. He struck me as a man who wanted the best for Antrim GAA but would never be taken for a fool, especially when it came to commercialism.

Two stories I remember - he wasn't a fan of the cult of the celeb in Brolly/O'Rourke/Spillane and thought the half time break would be better served showing highlights. He also thought journalists had lost their way with trying to write fairytales instead of sticking to conditions, crowd, how the game was won and how the game was lost.

The people of Belfast have not gathered to drive it out. Maybe the GAA have learned a vital lesson here in humility and professionalism.

Well summed up and it puts into perspective the direction the GAA has taken. We're too good for the Monaghan "market town", we need some city sophistication. But the city folk turn out to be 'unsophisticated'. A plague of rats on your houses...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 21, 2014, 01:32:24 AM
Padraig Duffy seemed to be hard line in today's IN when saying that the Gaa would be going flat out again for 38k capacity stadium. No surrender.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 21, 2014, 01:54:00 AM
I agree it will happen but I think it's fair to say that those with the vested interest on this board ie family houses etc will always be against this and they have their views whether we agree or not.  I feel they should explain that so we can appreciate and respect their reasoning.. but that's their option.some Others who have no interest  except the good of the gaa in Antrim and ulster are scratching their heads and asking what about the greater good? What do you guys really want. Your proposal is no good at 25k stadium.  It's no good. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 21, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
You have saidbpreviously that all was wanted was a jr and now that has happened and exposed some doe wrongdoings.. As long as a  revised stadium complies with the law even at 38k then are you happy?  If later law  judgements come on board will you accept them if they address all the doe related issues . Or is the jr simply a tactical means to prevent or delay the investment in the area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on December 21, 2014, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 21, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
You have saidbpreviously that all was wanted was a jr and now that has happened and exposed some doe wrongdoings.. As long as a  revised stadium complies with the law even at 38k then are you happy?  If later law  judgements come on board will you accept them if they address all the doe related issues . Or is the jr simply a tactical means to prevent or delay the investment in the area.
Like most GAA supporters with no vested interest with ulster council, Antrim Gaa or local residents, I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry with issues surrounding casement park. I don't want to insult those directly involved, but all parties need to reflect and make sure the project goes ahead as quickly as possible. If there is any risk of further delay or possibility of planning refusal, the GAA needs to work on securing the money for other projects, if that is possible.
The problems are multi-factorial
It appears only a small minority of the local community (difficult to quantify exactly what percentage of nearby households) are significantly unhappy with the GAA's approach. Their concerns ranged from natural light impact, crowd congestion, to social club interference. It is possible these concerns are exacerbated by varying degrees of political, anti-gaa , or indeed personal agendas.
This small cohort of objectors (I don't like the term local residents, as they appear to be a minority of local residents , backed up by family connections and others with vested interests) , should be careful what they wish for! Their insistence on 25k, will prevent the stadium development, therefore also block jobs, investment and improved community confidence and esteem , for one of the most socially deprived areas in Europe. The proposed new Casement will be the most modern facility in Europe. In addition to GAA supporters, rugby and concerts will attract a more diverse attendance into an area of the city with massive potential, which has been under resourced and under-utilised for years.

There has been a stadium here for the past 60 years, with crowds of £40k+ in the past. The most longstanding residents would have witnessed regular large crowds, while newer purchasers would have been well aware of the presence of a stadium.
As alluded to previously, it goes with the territory that all urban areas by their nature , are  liable to see construction development. What is the alternative for local residents? a delapidated crumbling structure which may eventually be replaced by industrial estates, or worse.
Can we clarify one point at this stage, a 25k structure is a non starter, as it would not attract the funding which is for a provincial stadium. Every other county in Ulster has a functioning stadium of 20k+ . Antrim are fortunate in that Stormont,and Croke park are prepared to fund what will effectively be their county stadium. If Antrim Gaels don't want this investment, we'll gladly take it to develop Páirc Esler . Croke park and Stormont , are not going to release monies to develop a county stadium, which doesn't meet The GAAs strategic plan, or indeed Stormont's , for a provincial stadium. I agree entirely with Padraig Duffy's assertion that a new state of the art stadium, will actually attract more punters, in addition to the usual 30k+ sellout ulster final crowds. So, at least 38k will be required.
I genuinely find the concerns regarding capacity , traffic impact , environmental factors hard to comprehend, given that there are similar and larger stadiums in every comparable sized city across Europe . These problems should not be insurmountable, and in effect were intelligently used by the objectors to secure a successful outcome from the JR, which would not have been achieved by challenging capacity alone.
I genuinely empathise with residents concerns re light and crowd impact, for anyone living close to stadiums, but these problems seem to be surmountable in other areas. It would be an absolute travesty if Ulster Gaels and particularly West Belfast , are robbed of a landmark facility made possible by this once-off Croke park and Stormont funding.
I genuinely think the objectors have underestimated the devastating impact of this stadium not going ahead in Belfast, due either to planning problems, or delaying tactics making it untenable even if planning is eventually approved.
I think the Ulster council have to engage with , and respect residents views, and by the same token the residents have to accept its a 38k stadium or nothing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 21, 2014, 01:30:15 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 21, 2014, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: rrhf on December 21, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
You have saidbpreviously that all was wanted was a jr and now that has happened and exposed some doe wrongdoings.. As long as a  revised stadium complies with the law even at 38k then are you happy?  If later law  judgements come on board will you accept them if they address all the doe related issues . Or is the jr simply a tactical means to prevent or delay the investment in the area.
Like most GAA supporters with no vested interest with ulster council, Antrim Gaa or local residents, I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry with issues surrounding casement park. I don't want to insult those directly involved, but all parties need to reflect and make sure the project goes ahead as quickly as possible. If there is any risk of further delay or possibility of planning refusal, the GAA needs to work on securing the money for other projects, if that is possible.
The problems are multi-factorial
It appears only a small minority of the local community (difficult to quantify exactly what percentage of nearby households) are significantly unhappy with the GAA's approach. Their concerns ranged from natural light impact, crowd congestion, to social club interference. It is possible these concerns are exacerbated by varying degrees of political, anti-gaa , or indeed personal agendas.
This small cohort of objectors (I don't like the term local residents, as they appear to be a minority of local residents , backed up by family connections and others with vested interests) , should be careful what they wish for! Their insistence on 25k, will prevent the stadium development, therefore also block jobs, investment and improved community confidence and esteem , for one of the most socially deprived areas in Europe. The proposed new Casement will be the most modern facility in Europe. In addition to GAA supporters, rugby and concerts will attract a more diverse attendance into an area of the city with massive potential, which has been under resourced and under-utilised for years.

There has been a stadium here for the past 60 years, with crowds of £40k+ in the past. The most longstanding residents would have witnessed regular large crowds, while newer purchasers would have been well aware of the presence of a stadium.
As alluded to previously, it goes with the territory that all urban areas by their nature , are  liable to see construction development. What is the alternative for local residents? a delapidated crumbling structure which may eventually be replaced by industrial estates, or worse.
Can we clarify one point at this stage, a 25k structure is a non starter, as it would not attract the funding which is for a provincial stadium. Every other county in Ulster has a functioning stadium of 20k+ . Antrim are fortunate in that Stormont,and Croke park are prepared to fund what will effectively be their county stadium. If Antrim Gaels don't want this investment, we'll gladly take it to develop Páirc Esler . Croke park and Stormont , are not going to release monies to develop a county stadium, which doesn't meet The GAAs strategic plan, or indeed Stormont's , for a provincial stadium. I agree entirely with Padraig Duffy's assertion that a new state of the art stadium, will actually attract more punters, in addition to the usual 30k+ sellout ulster final crowds. So, at least 38k will be required.
I genuinely find the concerns regarding capacity , traffic impact , environmental factors hard to comprehend, given that there are similar and larger stadiums in every comparable sized city across Europe . These problems should not be insurmountable, and in effect were intelligently used by the objectors to secure a successful outcome from the JR, which would not have been achieved by challenging capacity alone.
I genuinely empathise with residents concerns re light and crowd impact, for anyone living close to stadiums, but these problems seem to be surmountable in other areas. It would be an absolute travesty if Ulster Gaels and particularly West Belfast , are robbed of a landmark facility made possible by this once-off Croke park and Stormont funding.
I genuinely think the objectors have underestimated the devastating impact of this stadium not going ahead in Belfast, due either to planning problems, or delaying tactics making it untenable even if planning is eventually approved.
I think the Ulster council have to engage with , and respect residents views, and by the same token the residents have to accept its a 38k stadium or nothing.
[/b]

Therein lies some of the problems.

It was quoted in the IN yesterday that a 25k stadium was not viable. I'm sure there would have been studies carried out into the viability of it all ? Seeing as the stadium is funded by government etc to a large degree, this is a good head start in terms of its viability.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
Quote from: 6th samI genuinely find the concerns regarding capacity , traffic impact , environmental factors hard to comprehend, given that there are similar and larger stadiums in every comparable sized city across Europe . These problems should not be insurmountable, and in effect were intelligently used by the objectors to secure a successful outcome from the JR, which would not have been achieved by challenging capacity alone.

Good post  6th Sam. These are always some objectors to anything, however desireable, but they were able to use these issues in the JR. As you say there are stadia in every city and these issues are surmountable, the problem was the was little or no data produced on these issues. The GAA presumably produced anything the  planners asked for. You can blame Durkan, but he is not a planner, other officials in his office went along with this and they'll still be drawing their pension.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2014, 02:05:08 PM
Belfast is supposed to be the most congested city in europe. That's before any proper stadiums are built...

You only have to visit anfield to see that a stadium can ruin an area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dubh driocht on December 21, 2014, 04:34:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 21, 2014, 02:05:08 PM
Belfast is supposed to be the most congested city in europe. That's before any proper stadiums are built...

You only have to visit anfield to see that a stadium can ruin an area.
Source?
I want to see a stadium that meets the needs of GAA, Belfast and the majority of local residents. It shouldn't need Einstein to sort that out. It should be backed by our taxes and needs to be built ASAP.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2014, 04:53:11 PM
The radio... I've heard that from various places too.

Personally I don't believe belfast is the right place for this stadium.  Nothing to do with residents or protests either.

If it had a lot to add with infrastructure etc that would be a start but not sure it does.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: MK on December 21, 2014, 07:44:50 PM
Excellent post 6th Sam-
Jerome quinn summed up the whole situation in an interview with Frank Mc Clorey on U105  during the week when he said maybe its time the Ulster Council changed their team on this as while he complimented Tom Daly as a gentleman,he merely stated,when Ryan Feeney was concerned,that Casement park/West belfast was totally different to Faughanvale !!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cornerback on December 21, 2014, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 21, 2014, 04:53:11 PM
The radio... I've heard that from various places too.

Personally I don't believe belfast is the right place for this stadium.  Nothing to do with residents or protests either.

If it had a lot to add with infrastructure etc that would be a start but not sure it does.

A quick google search would say otherwise!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2014, 07:53:14 PM
If it's not now then it was last year according to citybeat!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2014, 08:08:37 PM
Hold your noses while you read this half-educated rant from some mucksavage at the Herald:

QuotePlanners are all-stars for putting GAA's noses out of joint over Casement

20 DECEMBER 2014 03:00 AM

In a week when the GAA suffered another blow to its monstrous ego with the refusal of the planning authorities in Belfast to grant permission for the extension of Casement Park, it was good to know that at least the powers-that-be in the UK don't allow these people to do as they want.

Naturally, the GAA were outraged as they'd already begun work on the project, assuming that - as is the case in this country - those in power wouldn't dare question the might of the organisation, but they had their noses well and truly bloodied on this one.

Funniest of all was that some hardliner went on BBC Norn Iron to bemoan that they were "entitled" (he actually used the word) to a new stadium, while others brought up the fact that failing to extend the ground could affect Ireland's bid for the Rugby World Cup.

Clearly the concept of irony hasn't taken hold up the road, given that it was the Ulster counties that were most adamant that 'foreign' sports shouldn't be let next nor near the hallowed turf of Croke Park, yet here they were complaining that the refusal of planning permission would affect a push for a rugby tournament. God, the sheer neck of that mob.

Back in the real world, The Beautiful Game provided plenty of entertainment off the field. We had the frankly hilarious story of former Aston Villa assistant manager Roy Keane (currently sitting on his hands until March when he resumes his duties as Martin O'Neill's sidekick in the Republic of Ireland set-up) going round to Villa midfielder Tom Cleverly's gaff and ringing the bell for a good half-hour. It seems that the ever-chilled Roy wanted a word with Cleverly to see if he'd been telling tales about the various spats at the Villa training ground before the Corkman walked away from his job as No2 to Paul Lambert.

Lambert, quite rightly, looked exasperated at Thursday's Villa press conference, fielding questions about someone who'd skipped out on a troubled club just before a vital league match. That someone no longer employed by the club should take up time at a media briefing is ridiculous but, then again, for Roy it's always been about Roy and to hell with everyone else.

We also had the truly great Thierry Henry announcing his retirement from the game to take up a very lucrative gig with Sky Sports, and fair play to him. During his career he was a joy to watch, one of the greatest and most graceful strikers we've seen in our lifetime, but, naturally, there were those who brought up that handball incident in Paris in 2009.

As usual, we had the "He cost us a spot in the World Cup" brigade out in force. Rather like the "RTE turned down Father Ted" crew, these people seemed to think that we were headed to South Africa when Henry - as any good professional player would have done - controlled the ball, twice, with his hand to set up William Gallas's goal. We weren't. We were on course for a penalty shootout, which is not the same as having your bags packed at all.

Anyway, while I, like every other football fan in the country, was absolutely livid at the time to the extent that I refused to drink French wine or eat in any of their over-rated restaurants for several months afterwards, Les Bleus' catastrophic implosion in South Africa wiped the slate clean. Enjoy your new gig, Thierry, you were a genuine legend, even though you played for Arsenal.

And finally, Hollywood was up in arms about how anonymous threats from "mysterious people on the internet" caused Sony Pictures to pull The Interview from its release schedules. Hmmh, a self-indulgent 'comedy' from Seth Rogen and James Franco about a plot to kill North Korean leader Kim Jong-un gets the chop. Thank you, "mysterious people on the internet", thank you.

At the risk of dignifying it with a response:

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 21, 2014, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2014, 08:08:37 PM
Hold your noses while you read this half-educated rant from some mucksavage at the Herald:

QuotePlanners are all-stars for putting GAA's noses out of joint over Casement

20 DECEMBER 2014 03:00 AM

In a week when the GAA suffered another blow to its monstrous ego with the refusal of the planning authorities in Belfast to grant permission for the extension of Casement Park, it was good to know that at least the powers-that-be in the UK don't allow these people to do as they want.

Naturally, the GAA were outraged as they'd already begun work on the project, assuming that - as is the case in this country - those in power wouldn't dare question the might of the organisation, but they had their noses well and truly bloodied on this one.

Funniest of all was that some hardliner went on BBC Norn Iron to bemoan that they were "entitled" (he actually used the word) to a new stadium, while others brought up the fact that failing to extend the ground could affect Ireland's bid for the Rugby World Cup.

Clearly the concept of irony hasn't taken hold up the road, given that it was the Ulster counties that were most adamant that 'foreign' sports shouldn't be let next nor near the hallowed turf of Croke Park, yet here they were complaining that the refusal of planning permission would affect a push for a rugby tournament. God, the sheer neck of that mob.

Back in the real world, The Beautiful Game provided plenty of entertainment off the field. We had the frankly hilarious story of former Aston Villa assistant manager Roy Keane (currently sitting on his hands until March when he resumes his duties as Martin O'Neill's sidekick in the Republic of Ireland set-up) going round to Villa midfielder Tom Cleverly's gaff and ringing the bell for a good half-hour. It seems that the ever-chilled Roy wanted a word with Cleverly to see if he'd been telling tales about the various spats at the Villa training ground before the Corkman walked away from his job as No2 to Paul Lambert.

Lambert, quite rightly, looked exasperated at Thursday's Villa press conference, fielding questions about someone who'd skipped out on a troubled club just before a vital league match. That someone no longer employed by the club should take up time at a media briefing is ridiculous but, then again, for Roy it's always been about Roy and to hell with everyone else.

We also had the truly great Thierry Henry announcing his retirement from the game to take up a very lucrative gig with Sky Sports, and fair play to him. During his career he was a joy to watch, one of the greatest and most graceful strikers we've seen in our lifetime, but, naturally, there were those who brought up that handball incident in Paris in 2009.

As usual, we had the "He cost us a spot in the World Cup" brigade out in force. Rather like the "RTE turned down Father Ted" crew, these people seemed to think that we were headed to South Africa when Henry - as any good professional player would have done - controlled the ball, twice, with his hand to set up William Gallas's goal. We weren't. We were on course for a penalty shootout, which is not the same as having your bags packed at all.

Anyway, while I, like every other football fan in the country, was absolutely livid at the time to the extent that I refused to drink French wine or eat in any of their over-rated restaurants for several months afterwards, Les Bleus' catastrophic implosion in South Africa wiped the slate clean. Enjoy your new gig, Thierry, you were a genuine legend, even though you played for Arsenal.

And finally, Hollywood was up in arms about how anonymous threats from "mysterious people on the internet" caused Sony Pictures to pull The Interview from its release schedules. Hmmh, a self-indulgent 'comedy' from Seth Rogen and James Franco about a plot to kill North Korean leader Kim Jong-un gets the chop. Thank you, "mysterious people on the internet", thank you.

At the risk of dignifying it with a response:

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...
he is not so far away from what many city people think of the gaa.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on December 21, 2014, 08:39:31 PM
Chrikers that's poor. And rte were never offered Ted :-)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 22, 2014, 08:36:56 AM
Joe Brollys view

http://gaeliclife.com/2014/12/joe-brolly-willie-joe-and-casement/

'Unfortunately for the Department of Planning, Mr Justice Horner QC knows a painted rose when he sees one. He is a man of absolute integrity. A sportsman and a sportsfan. He was a fine rugby player in his day. He understands the great importance of a new Casement Park. None of those matters are relevant. The Department took shortcuts and unfortunately for us, it is the Gaels of Ulster that are paying the price. There was no proper traffic impact assessment and no proper environmental impact assessment. Therefore the Department's decision is unlawful. End of.

It is important to note that, as the judge put it himself, his judgement has "nothing to do with the merits of the new stadium". He records that the evidence that the new stadium would sell out for certain matches and events was "convincing". He notes the potential of the stadium to "contribute to the regeneration of the greater Belfast area and the Andersonstown Road in particular". He makes it clear that there is no criticism of the GAA's approach. "The court rejects any suggestion, whether express or implied, of any improper behaviour on the part of ..the GAA". And he sets out in depressing terms, the state of Casement as it stands. "Today, it sits low slung and grey, marked with four columns of floodlights which tower over the ground and the surrounding area. Dejected, decrepit and dilapidated, its glory days long gone."

The residents' barrister David Scoffield was a prudent choice. He wrote the book on judicial review, which is always helpful. Indeed, in the course of his judgement, Mr Justice Horner refers to passages from that book. So although the residents original complaints were mostly groundless (and ended up being rejected) Mr Scoffield was never going to miss the nail and hit the wall. As Mr Justice Horner put it " No possible point or permutation of a point has been overlooked by counsel for the residents. I hope I do justice to the variety and ingenuity of his multifaceted arguments." His main submissions were precise and in essence unarguable. The law, don't you know, will set us free, and if it doesn't, the brilliant Mr Scoffield will.

The upshot is that the decision to grant the planning permission has been quashed. But it is a temporary victory for the residents. The suggestion by some, including Paddy Cunningham this week, that a 25,000 stadium is sufficient, is based on ignorance. It is a provincial stadium and therefore requires a baseline of 32,000 if it is to be viable. Not the home of Antrim GAA.

The home of Antrim and Ulster GAA, driving our projects into the future. Vital projects like a coaching task force for Belfast schools and Greater Belfast. Funded by a vibrant conference centre and stadium. An iconic place, designed by the architects of the world famous Velodrome, built for the London Olympics, acting as a financial driver for our ideals. It is a classic no brainer.

So, where are we? Well, here is the bottom line. The handful of residents have won a temporary victory. A new planning application will be submitted in the New Year. This time it will be bomb proof, following to the letter the judgement of His Lordship.

The Department will do things properly this time. Planning will be granted. We will have the stadium that we so badly need in this run down city. Just in time for the influx of commerce that will come hot on the heels of the reduction in corporation tax.'

- See more at: http://gaeliclife.com/2014/12/joe-brolly-willie-joe-and-casement/#sthash.m1TRmhJe.dpuf
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 22, 2014, 10:18:10 AM
So which is it ?

25k isn't viable according to Padraig. Joe says 32k is viable - the Gaa say viability is reached at 38k.

Where are the figures to support these claims ?. Publish them and blow the residents out of the water.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on December 22, 2014, 10:57:54 AM
Seems to be based on the predicted Ulster final attendance which in recent years has been anything between 28000-34000
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
Unfortunately for the Department of Planning, Mr Justice Horner QC knows a painted rose when he sees one. He is a man of absolute integrity. A sportsman and a sportsfan. He was a fine rugby player in his day. SO, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BALL_LAPPING HERE THEN JOE?He understands the great importance of a new Casement Park. None of those matters are relevant. The Department took shortcuts and unfortunately for us, it is the Gaels of Ulster that are paying the price. There was no proper traffic impact assessment and no proper environmental impact assessment. Therefore the Department's decision is unlawful. End of.
NO MENTION OF THE FACT THAT THE ULSTER COUNCIL WOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT - ULSTER COUNCIL HAVE A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS MESS...none more so than the one-man walking bill board that is RYAN FEENEY

It is important to note that, as the judge put it himself, his judgement has "nothing to do with the merits of the new stadium". He records that the evidence that the new stadium would sell out for certain matches and events was "convincing". He notes the potential of the stadium to "contribute to the regeneration of the greater Belfast area and the Andersonstown Road in particular". He makes it clear that there is no criticism of the GAA's approach. WELL, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME CRITICISM JOE - the bullied and battered away at the locals like that did in CORK, DUBLIN...

"The court rejects any suggestion, whether express or implied, of any improper behaviour on the part of ..the GAA". And he sets out in depressing terms, the state of Casement as it stands. "Today, it sits low slung and grey, marked with four columns of floodlights which tower over the ground and the surrounding area. Dejected, decrepit and dilapidated, its glory days long gone."

The residents' barrister David Scoffield was a prudent choice. He wrote the book on judicial review, which is always helpful. Indeed, in the course of his judgement, Mr Justice Horner refers to passages from that book. So although the residents original complaints were mostly ..."mostly"...NEED TO ELABORATE ON THIS JOE...LOOKS LIKE AN ATTEMPT YET AGAIN TO DEFLECT FROM THE FACT THAT THE VIEWS OF MORA WERE NOT FULLY LISTENED TO groundless (and ended up being rejected) Mr Scoffield was never going to miss the nail and hit the wall. As Mr Justice Horner put it " No possible point or permutation of a point has been overlooked by counsel for the residents. I hope I do justice to the variety and ingenuity of his multifaceted arguments." His main submissions were precise and in essence unarguable. The law, don't you know, will set us free, and if it doesn't, the brilliant Mr Scoffield will.

The upshot is that the decision to grant the planning permission has been quashed. But it is a temporary victory for the residents. The suggestion by some, including Paddy Cunningham this week, that a 25,000 stadium is sufficient, is base...ANOTHER PERSONAL ATTACK JOE...GOOD MAN...BUT WHY IS IT IGNORANT TO SUGGEST A SMALLER CAPACITY WHEN IT IS NUMINGLY OBVIOUS THAT THE ONE PRESENTED WAS TOO BIG?

The home of Antrim and Ulster GAA, driving our projects into the future. Vital projects like a coaching task force for Belfast schools and Greater Belfast. Funded by a vibrant conference centre and stadium. WHAT THE f**k DO YOU KNOW ABOUT CORPORATE HOSPITALITY SALES JOE?

An iconic place, designed by the architects of the world famous Velodrome, built for the London Olympics, acting as a financial driver for our ideals. It is a classic no brainer.

So, where are we? Well, here is the bottom line. The handful of residents have won a temporary victory. THE HANDFUL OF RESIDENTS ARE HUMANS JOE...MAYBE EVEN GAA FANS TOO...YET YOU STILL CHOSE TO BE SO CONTEMPTUOUS OF THEIR BASIC RIGHTS A new planning application will be submitted in the New Year. This time it will be bomb proof, following to the letter the judgement of His Lordship.

The Department will do things properly this time. WILL THE GAA DO THE RIGHT THING THIS TIME TOO? MAYBE SHAKE THE CASEMENT TEAM UP A BIT - the less me-feiners the better, eh JOE? Planning will be granted. We will have the stadium that we so badly need in this run down city. Just in time for the influx of commerce that will come hot on the heels of the reduction in corporation tax.'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on December 22, 2014, 12:27:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 21, 2014, 08:08:37 PM
Hold your noses while you read this half-educated rant from some mucksavage at the Herald:

QuotePlanners are all-stars for putting GAA's noses out of joint over Casement

20 DECEMBER 2014 03:00 AM

In a week when the GAA suffered another blow to its monstrous ego with the refusal of the planning authorities in Belfast to grant permission for the extension of Casement Park, it was good to know that at least the powers-that-be in the UK don't allow these people to do as they want.

Naturally, the GAA were outraged as they'd already begun work on the project, assuming that - as is the case in this country - those in power wouldn't dare question the might of the organisation, but they had their noses well and truly bloodied on this one.

Funniest of all was that some hardliner went on BBC Norn Iron to bemoan that they were "entitled" (he actually used the word) to a new stadium, while others brought up the fact that failing to extend the ground could affect Ireland's bid for the Rugby World Cup.

Clearly the concept of irony hasn't taken hold up the road, given that it was the Ulster counties that were most adamant that 'foreign' sports shouldn't be let next nor near the hallowed turf of Croke Park, yet here they were complaining that the refusal of planning permission would affect a push for a rugby tournament. God, the sheer neck of that mob.

Back in the real world, The Beautiful Game provided plenty of entertainment off the field. We had the frankly hilarious story of former Aston Villa assistant manager Roy Keane (currently sitting on his hands until March when he resumes his duties as Martin O'Neill's sidekick in the Republic of Ireland set-up) going round to Villa midfielder Tom Cleverly's gaff and ringing the bell for a good half-hour. It seems that the ever-chilled Roy wanted a word with Cleverly to see if he'd been telling tales about the various spats at the Villa training ground before the Corkman walked away from his job as No2 to Paul Lambert.

Lambert, quite rightly, looked exasperated at Thursday's Villa press conference, fielding questions about someone who'd skipped out on a troubled club just before a vital league match. That someone no longer employed by the club should take up time at a media briefing is ridiculous but, then again, for Roy it's always been about Roy and to hell with everyone else.

We also had the truly great Thierry Henry announcing his retirement from the game to take up a very lucrative gig with Sky Sports, and fair play to him. During his career he was a joy to watch, one of the greatest and most graceful strikers we've seen in our lifetime, but, naturally, there were those who brought up that handball incident in Paris in 2009.

As usual, we had the "He cost us a spot in the World Cup" brigade out in force. Rather like the "RTE turned down Father Ted" crew, these people seemed to think that we were headed to South Africa when Henry - as any good professional player would have done - controlled the ball, twice, with his hand to set up William Gallas's goal. We weren't. We were on course for a penalty shootout, which is not the same as having your bags packed at all.

Anyway, while I, like every other football fan in the country, was absolutely livid at the time to the extent that I refused to drink French wine or eat in any of their over-rated restaurants for several months afterwards, Les Bleus' catastrophic implosion in South Africa wiped the slate clean. Enjoy your new gig, Thierry, you were a genuine legend, even though you played for Arsenal.

And finally, Hollywood was up in arms about how anonymous threats from "mysterious people on the internet" caused Sony Pictures to pull The Interview from its release schedules. Hmmh, a self-indulgent 'comedy' from Seth Rogen and James Franco about a plot to kill North Korean leader Kim Jong-un gets the chop. Thank you, "mysterious people on the internet", thank you.

At the risk of dignifying it with a response:

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...

This isn't meant to be taken seriously.  ;D

The arguments are meant to be farcical for entertainment purposes. It is like a poor attempt at Ross O'Carroll-Kelly or a faux Fox News item.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on December 22, 2014, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 22, 2014, 10:57:54 AM
Seems to be based on the predicted Ulster final attendance which in recent years has been anything between 28000-34000

Even throughout the recession years the attendance has been ~30k. The Croke park Ulster final was ?~60k.
Clones though a great venue in many ways, suffers from a poor infrastructure.
Casement is in Belfast, the country's second largest city , with nearby railway, and less than a mile from the motorway with easy access northwards to Antrim, Derry and Donegal, and South to the rest of the Ulster counties.
The proposed 38k stadium will have comparable or better amenities(shops,bars) than Croke or Aviva, and as in the case of modern stadiums , the attractiveness and uniqueness of the "state of the art" facility, will attract greater and more diverse support, not least from the local West Belfast area. This will potentially revitalise GAA support in our second city, in the way that new Croke park is packed with Dubs supporters , who are not traditional GAA supporters, but who have invigorated our summers over the last few years.
Casement is an iconic venue steeped in history, and it would be a tragedy if it is mothballed or worse still obliterated.
Importantly 38k capacity will make more Ulster finals tickets available , and with economies of scale, probably cheaper tickets.
For the reasons highlighted, I have no doubt that the 38k capacity will be a sellout, at least once every year. Therefore anything less than this capacity would be wholly inadequate for our provincial stadium.
These presumably are some of the reasons that the GAA is adamant that a 38k stadium in Belfast is a must for their optimal strategic development.
More importantly in my view , it would give West Belfast, the  break that it deserves after years of deprivation and underinvestment.
Absolutely , respect the genuine concerns of local residents, but tasteful appropriate development in this area is a must, not just for GAA supporters but for the whole community in Belfast !
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 12:54:53 PM
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
NO MENTION OF THE FACT THAT THE ULSTER COUNCIL WOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT - ULSTER COUNCIL HAVE A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS MESS...none more so than the one-man walking bill board that is RYAN FEENEY

The GAA wanted planning approval, it is ridiculous to suggest that they should know better than the prfessional planners and their department as to what was required to meet the planning law.

Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
ANOTHER PERSONAL ATTACK JOE...GOOD MAN...BUT WHY IS IT IGNORANT TO SUGGEST A SMALLER CAPACITY WHEN IT IS NUMINGLY OBVIOUS THAT THE ONE PRESENTED WAS TOO BIG?

It is ignorant to suggest that a capacity that is not fit for the purpose is a reasonable solution.


Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PMTHE HANDFUL OF RESIDENTS ARE HUMANS JOE...MAYBE EVEN GAA FANS TOO...YET YOU STILL CHOSE TO BE SO CONTEMPTUOUS OF THEIR BASIC RIGHTS

It can hardly have escaped the notice of these residents in the last 61 years that they have chosen to live beside a stadium designed to be used for Ulster finals. The upgrade is simply the modern standard required for such games.

It is a bit like the NIMBYs living along the A5, "it doesn't need to be dual carriageway, a single carriageway will do", "the existing road is good enough","we don't need an autobahn in Tyrone".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 01:00:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 12:54:53 PM
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PM
NO MENTION OF THE FACT THAT THE ULSTER COUNCIL WOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT - ULSTER COUNCIL HAVE A HUGE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS MESS...none more so than the one-man walking bill board that is RYAN FEENEY

The GAA wanted planning approval, it is ridiculous to suggest that they should know better than the prfessional planners and their department as to what was required to meet the planning law.

Thats NOT what i have suggested. I stand by my assertion that the ULSTER GAA should share in this abject failure, and Brolly in his piece ignores that fact.

ANOTHER PERSONAL ATTACK JOE...GOOD MAN...BUT WHY IS IT IGNORANT TO SUGGEST A SMALLER CAPACITY WHEN IT IS NUMINGLY OBVIOUS THAT THE ONE PRESENTED WAS TOO BIG?

It is ignorant to suggest that a capacity that is not fit for the purpose is a reasonable solution.
The stadium as presented doesn't offer enough entry/exit points from a health and safety perspective. the location has always been a mess even on good days and with crowds in their 15,000s....I have been to games with modest attendances there and the cars are parked up the M1? What the f**k is that about?


Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PMTHE HANDFUL OF RESIDENTS ARE HUMANS JOE...MAYBE EVEN GAA FANS TOO...YET YOU STILL CHOSE TO BE SO CONTEMPTUOUS OF THEIR BASIC RIGHTS

It can hardly have escaped the notice of these residents in the last 61 years that they have chosen to live beside a stadium designed to be used for Ulster finals. The upgrade is simply the modern standard required for such games.

It is a bit like the NIMBYs living along the A5, "it doesn't need to be dual carriageway, a single carriageway will do", "the existing road is good enough","we don't need an autobahn in Tyrone".


Not sure what a NIMBY is but have always felt that people are entitled to have their view heard...easy for cultchies, of which i am one, to say "sure thon stadium is grand and f**k the residents" when I don't actually live there.
The GAA has a fine pedigree in railroading the less-advantaged (or those who don't work in PR, for example...) and MORA is the most recent example
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bensars on December 22, 2014, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 22, 2014, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 22, 2014, 10:57:54 AM
Seems to be based on the predicted Ulster final attendance which in recent years has been anything between 28000-34000

Even throughout the recession years the attendance has been ~30k. The Croke park Ulster final was ?~60k.
Clones though a great venue in many ways, suffers from a poor infrastructure.
Casement is in Belfast, the country's second largest city , with nearby railway, and less than a mile from the motorway with easy access northwards to Antrim, Derry and Donegal, and South to the rest of the Ulster counties.
The proposed 38k stadium will have comparable or better amenities(shops,bars) than Croke or Aviva, and as in the case of modern stadiums , the attractiveness and uniqueness of the "state of the art" facility, will attract greater and more diverse support, not least from the local West Belfast area. This will potentially revitalise GAA support in our second city, in the way that new Croke park is packed with Dubs supporters , who are not traditional GAA supporters, but who have invigorated our summers over the last few years.
Casement is an iconic venue steeped in history, and it would be a tragedy if it is mothballed or worse still obliterated.
Importantly 38k capacity will make more Ulster finals tickets available , and with economies of scale, probably cheaper tickets.
For the reasons highlighted, I have no doubt that the 38k capacity will be a sellout, at least once every year. Therefore anything less than this capacity would be wholly inadequate for our provincial stadium.
These presumably are some of the reasons that the GAA is adamant that a 38k stadium in Belfast is a must for their optimal strategic development.
More importantly in my view , it would give West Belfast, the  break that it deserves after years of deprivation and underinvestment.
Absolutely , respect the genuine concerns of local residents, but tasteful appropriate development in this area is a must, not just for GAA supporters but for the whole community in Belfast !


How has that worked out over the last 10 years in Croke Park with increased capacity to 82k ? ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 01:31:13 PM
The increased capacity in Croke Park has certainly facilitated the introduction of season ticket schemes and the like and there has been some good deals for tickets for non finals. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bensars on December 22, 2014, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 01:31:13 PM
The increased capacity in Croke Park has certainly facilitated the introduction of season ticket schemes and the like and there has been some good deals for tickets for non finals. 
Possibly, but you will only have a handful of games in casement at best. The deals are to facilitate increased sales for games where capacity is under utilised, if you think it is for the good of the patron, then you are very naive.
(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mePsnoAxaiqxnxYFUlUYDcA.jpg)

(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m8FlTsif4XdvH3jQCdxAEcg.jpg)

(http://cdn4.independent.ie/migration_catalog/article28798780.ece/42404/ALTERNATES/h342/tickets)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 22, 2014, 01:42:04 PM
What was the previous Capacity of Casement Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 01:58:32 PM
Quote from: Bensars on December 22, 2014, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 22, 2014, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 22, 2014, 10:57:54 AM
Seems to be based on the predicted Ulster final attendance which in recent years has been anything between 28000-34000

Even throughout the recession years the attendance has been ~30k. The Croke park Ulster final was ?~60k.
Clones though a great venue in many ways, suffers from a poor infrastructure.
Casement is in Belfast, the country's second largest city , with nearby railway, and less than a mile from the motorway with easy access northwards to Antrim, Derry and Donegal, and South to the rest of the Ulster counties.
The proposed 38k stadium will have comparable or better amenities(shops,bars) than Croke or Aviva, and as in the case of modern stadiums , the attractiveness and uniqueness of the "state of the art" facility, will attract greater and more diverse support, not least from the local West Belfast area. This will potentially revitalise GAA support in our second city, in the way that new Croke park is packed with Dubs supporters , who are not traditional GAA supporters, but who have invigorated our summers over the last few years.
Casement is an iconic venue steeped in history, and it would be a tragedy if it is mothballed or worse still obliterated.
Importantly 38k capacity will make more Ulster finals tickets available , and with economies of scale, probably cheaper tickets.
For the reasons highlighted, I have no doubt that the 38k capacity will be a sellout, at least once every year. Therefore anything less than this capacity would be wholly inadequate for our provincial stadium.
These presumably are some of the reasons that the GAA is adamant that a 38k stadium in Belfast is a must for their optimal strategic development.
More importantly in my view , it would give West Belfast, the  break that it deserves after years of deprivation and underinvestment.
Absolutely , respect the genuine concerns of local residents, but tasteful appropriate development in this area is a must, not just for GAA supporters but for the whole community in Belfast !


How has that worked out over the last 10 years in Croke Park with increased capacity to 82k ? ::)


If the sales pitch is based on a 38,000 capacity as a must , there aren't too many games attracting that kind of crowd...Ulster final and thats it...so one game a year then?
I cannot see people randomly turning up and deciding to take in an Antrim game, just because its on - for that to happen the product would need to chance beyond recognition....as a neutral I would go and see ANY club championship game at junior, inter or senior...football or hurling, because the standard would be reasonable at the very least....no such guarantee unfortunately with ANY DIV 4 team.

So will they have to use the venue for different events...? Renting it out for concerts will see the artists and promotors get wealthy and not the county or province?
Corporate hospitality has been sown up by other venues....would be interesting to see what % of the overall revenue for Ravenhill that accounts for - Ulster rugby will have a much better pedigree and tradition for corporate hospitality and event management than Antrim GAA....

there is much at stake here...outside of the needs of MORA and the GAA...It would be class to see a vibrant stadium in the west, no question....hope that everyone involved can get there OWN shit together...and that for once the GAA will admit that they have played a roll in this fiasco, and move on quickly
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on December 22, 2014, 04:06:13 PM
I think the implication that unless a stadium can be filled several times a year, then capacity should be reduced to a level that is likely to be a sold out regularly, is not necessarily valid.
Celtic fc for example, made the brave decision to build a 60k stadium, at a time when they attracted average crowds much less than that. The new Parkhead was instrumental in transforming the dynamic around Celtic fc, and arguably contributed to transforming team success.
Building a new stadium undoubtedly heightens self confidence , pride and self esteem, for the organisation, supporters, and the local community.
Croke park is rarely filled, but if the GAA had decided to build a 60k stadium instead of an 80k one , that would amount to 20000 fewer supporters getting to watch their team in the Allireland final each year.
I think talk of a 25k stadium can be hypothetical only, as this does not meets Ulster's needs, and could only be Antrims county stadium. Perhaps some Antrim gaels underestimate the size of the task and funding required to renovate or build a 25k stadium, and remember they won't be attracting the 80m funding associated with an Ulster project!
The traffic and environmental concerns of a 38k Casement can not be insurmountable, given the numerous precedents for developing stadia of this size, in urban areas. The Residents' concerns similarly can probably be addressed in an atmosphere of mutual respect. I think Niamh Bríd's point re the GAA " Culchies " not being tuned in to urban residents is a valid one, evidenced by the apparent insensitivity surrounding the 5 Garth Brooks concerts, the social club at Casement and MORA.
I think it behoves the GAA at national , Ulster and Antrim level, Stormont and multi-party local politicians to engage with MORA and try to persuade them on the merits of a 38k stadium to transform the Casement site.
MORA for their part need to be aware that if they block a 38k , there won't be a 25k alternative, and they will have to justify the loss of 80m funding, associated further investment, and a facility of which we all could be proud.

PS. The price of AI tickets is comparable or better than similar major events. My argument is that if the size of Croke Park was only 60k , the price of tickets would probably be higher(economies of scale).

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on December 22, 2014, 04:08:30 PM
The 38k will happen with our without the residents agreement next year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 22, 2014, 04:52:37 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on December 22, 2014, 04:08:30 PM
The 38k will happen with our without the residents agreement next year.

You're getting it whether you like it or not.

That's exactly the attitude that has caused this costly mess. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 22, 2014, 06:47:08 PM
It will be a fair old walk from Sprucefield to Casement with 38k at a match.

Is there any way of having a flyover from Kennedy way straight on to the M1 that would take away a bit of traffic ?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 22, 2014, 07:22:23 PM


People seem obsessed with the traffic. How do those dozens and dozens of matches across the water happen every week without the country grinding to a halt. If people are so dumb to park their car on the m1 as implied earlier then I hope their car is taken away and crushed. Said it earlier culchies might have to learn to park a short walk away from the stadium with no stress or hassle rather than trying to park at the front gate!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 22, 2014, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

I posted this before but maybe it was on hoganstand I cant remember but from the West if I was worried that the M1 junction at Kennedy way would be busy then I would come off at Lisburn, take the road that continues onto Upper Malone. I would then park the car in one of the streets near the kings hall and walk 20 mins and you are at Casement alternatively I would leave the car somewhere round Finaghy Road North and walk, again about a 20 minute walk. Even if you dont know Belfast it wouldnt take much planning to avoid any major drama, alternatively take a bus or a train if times work. People on these blogs seem to want to drive their car past the stadium and park off the Andersonstown road. If thats what they want to do then they only have themselves to blame when they are stuck in traffic
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on December 23, 2014, 07:02:16 AM
Train will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2014, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

So you regularly drive around Armagh with gaa flags in car? Only place I wouldn't drive through would be Twaddle Avenue lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: blewuporstuffed on December 23, 2014, 09:43:19 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on December 23, 2014, 07:02:16 AM
Train will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.
what about the other 80% of ulster?
The main issue with traffic at these events ( and indeed traffic in the north in general) is the lack of a decent public transport system
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 23, 2014, 11:10:40 AM
Just to be clear, the JR was not taken against the GAA. The GAA complied with the planners requirements. The planners requirements in terms of impact assessments were found wanting ergo Joe Brolly is correct. Now if you want to criticize the way the GAA handled the PR and the residents then that may well have some substance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2014, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: tyronemanTrain will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.

I'm sure there will be great crowds of people in jerseys on the platforms at Helen's Bay.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2014, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

So you regularly drive around Armagh with gaa flags in car? Only place I wouldn't drive through would be Twaddle Avenue lol

Not so regularly in recent years, alas, but of course flags are part of the GAA. So you are saying that there is no problem in Lisburn, only in Twaddle Avenue? Or are you implying some sort of Larne Catholic analysis that there it isn't reasonable to have a GAA flag on your car?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on December 23, 2014, 01:53:44 PM
Jeez lads, stop pancaking about traffic. wudnt like to see u all in around the castlecourt today or tomorrow lol

there was talk at a stage that gaa would acquire ground off the boucher road & make a walkover from there to casement, crossing the motorway. not sure how true though?!

recently for the game for anto, there were shuttle buses from central station, surely something like this will be in service come match day.
u dont really expect to go to any event nowadays with some form of traffic congestion!

anyway these are merely the end of the process, i wud like to c a start happening first & foremost!!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2014, 01:59:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2014, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: tyronemanTrain will easily cover anyone along the Newry to Bangor axis with only a 15min walk at the end. A flyover however would be a great idea.

I'm sure there will be great crowds of people in jerseys on the platforms at Helen's Bay.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2014, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

So you regularly drive around Armagh with gaa flags in car? Only place I wouldn't drive through would be Twaddle Avenue lol

Not so regularly in recent years, alas, but of course flags are part of the GAA. So you are saying that there is no problem in Lisburn, only in Twaddle Avenue? Or are you implying some sort of Larne Catholic analysis that there it isn't reasonable to have a GAA flag on your car?

I didn't imply that Lisburn was unsafe to drive through with a Gaa flag on it (Twaddle is), as you are well aware St Patricks Lisburn have been 'flying the flag' for many years and continue to grow, But my point is that you'd find it difficult in some areas regardless of where you are from, Armagh included to drive around with a Gaa flag on it, quite the same if lads were driving up the Falls with an England soccer flag, or support the Poppy stickers on their car, some dicks will have a complaint about it regardless don't you think?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 23, 2014, 02:56:01 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 22, 2014, 07:22:23 PM


People seem obsessed with the traffic. How do those dozens and dozens of matches across the water happen every week without the country grinding to a halt. If people are so dumb to park their car on the m1 as implied earlier then I hope their car is taken away and crushed. Said it earlier culchies might have to learn to park a short walk away from the stadium with no stress or hassle rather than trying to park at the front gate!

I travelled down to Limerick this year at Easter for a double header in the hurling national leauge
Got there early and still sat in a very slow traffic que
Got parked then walked for half an hour to grounds
Big guarda presence directing traffic and so on
I didn't have a problem with it all, it's the norm in most county grounds on big days
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 22, 2014, 12:27:27 PM

This isn't meant to be taken seriously.  ;D

The arguments are meant to be farcical for entertainment purposes. It is like a poor attempt at Ross O'Carroll-Kelly or a faux Fox News item.

Sarcasm doesn't come over very well in print. I've been known to read rants in the Sindo without having a clue if the writer actually means it or is being serious. We live in an age when it's hard to tell satire from the real thing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 06:27:29 PM
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 12:22:01 PMTHE HANDFUL OF RESIDENTS ARE HUMANS JOE...MAYBE EVEN GAA FANS TOO...YET YOU STILL CHOSE TO BE SO CONTEMPTUOUS OF THEIR BASIC RIGHTS

An unobstructed view of open countryside from the middle of the biggest built-up area in the north is not a "basic right." Go and live away out in the wilds if you don't want anything near you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 06:29:18 PM
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on December 22, 2014, 01:58:32 PM
Corporate hospitality has been sown up by other venues....

There won't be any demand for conference facilities? That's a bit of a bold claim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
I was in Casement for the Ros/Antrim NFL game in 2013 and with only 600 at the game I had to park in a narrow enough residential street - 5 or 600 metres away at least - jam packed with cars.
The whole area looked pretty built up to me so where will the 38,000 get room to park?
Comparisons with English soccer are not valid as most of their crowds are local and come by public transport.

One issue with Casement was that big games were few enough and people didn't know their way around. Blacks Road does not have an exit from the south on the M1. Heading through Poleglass might be a plan, but I for one am uncertain about transiting Lisburn in a GAA jersey with flags on my car, I never hesitate to take a shortcut around Clones. 

But action needs to be taken on parking, to identify and publicise parking in schools etc and not just weeping and knashing of teeth. Translink need to provide trains, and services to the park and ride at Sprucefield or other places. In more civilised places public authorities put on public transport for events as a public service, here it seems to regarded as a personal problem. If this review leads to these things then so much the better.

At the risk of saying "I told you so," the Ulster Council sent out an online survey about the Casement development a year or two ago. I added some comments along the lines of:

"What are you doing about parking and traffic? Are you going to do park-and-ride shuttles from nearby car parks that would otherwise be idle on a Sunday? Are you going to run shuttle buses from Great Victoria Street station? If you include that in your plan then you might find it an easier sell to the residents."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2014, 06:34:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 06:20:35 PM
Sarcasm doesn't come over very well in print.

You don't say.

Quote from: Eamonnca1Go and live away out in the wilds if you don't want anything near you.

Nicer people out there too, better footballers for the most part, but the broadband is shite.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2014, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 23, 2014, 06:39:42 PM
And you have to buck your own sister.

It sure beats the city habit of banging your daughter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 23, 2014, 07:14:41 PM
Jesus lads that's a bit ott
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 23, 2014, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 23, 2014, 06:39:42 PM
And you have to buck your own sister.

If I was yer man Rob Kardashian I'd probably be tempted with about 4 of them!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 10:44:13 PM
(http://www.istitutoarzela.it/Avatars/OffTopic.png)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 23, 2014, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 23, 2014, 10:44:13 PM
(http://www.istitutoarzela.it/Avatars/OffTopic.png)

Sorry my apologies must keep it local.
If I was yer man Jim corr I would be tempted with two of them and the other if I squinted a bit.
In fairness there isn't too much else to say on this topic until the GAA resubmit plans
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 24, 2014, 01:00:28 AM
So you think there should be some space allocated for standing only?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 24, 2014, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: bannside on December 24, 2014, 01:00:28 AM
So you think there should be some space allocated for standing only?

The other sports that are going to use the new stadium, rugby and soccer like areas for standing in, so it probably is worth consideration.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 24, 2014, 09:01:05 AM
And on that windup let's close casement for Xmas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 24, 2014, 09:12:37 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 24, 2014, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: bannside on December 24, 2014, 01:00:28 AM
So you think there should be some space allocated for standing only?

The other sports that are going to use the new stadium, rugby and soccer like areas for standing in, so it probably is worth consideration.

Mixed seating/terracing works well for Rugby, perfect example being the new Ravenhill but soccer for the time being still requires all-seater venues in the UK. In fairness how often is soccer going to be played at Casement? The only thing I could think of is if they hosted a pre-season tournament with some of the big clubs from Europe similar to the Dublin super cup a few years back. I would hope that any new GAA stadium would be constructed so that it would be easy enough to swap between seating and terracing. If the new Casement at the Anderstown road end was a terrace then the GAA would be able to have 38000 in a much lower stadium and that may please residents regarding light issues but wouldnt affect their concerns about traffic, concerts, saferty, asbestos and whatever else
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 24, 2014, 12:40:26 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 24, 2014, 09:12:37 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 24, 2014, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: bannside on December 24, 2014, 01:00:28 AM
So you think there should be some space allocated for standing only?

The other sports that are going to use the new stadium, rugby and soccer like areas for standing in, so it probably is worth consideration.

Mixed seating/terracing works well for Rugby, perfect example being the new Ravenhill but soccer for the time being still requires all-seater venues in the UK. In fairness how often is soccer going to be played at Casement? The only thing I could think of is if they hosted a pre-season tournament with some of the big clubs from Europe similar to the Dublin super cup a few years back. I would hope that any new GAA stadium would be constructed so that it would be easy enough to swap between seating and terracing. If the new Casement at the Anderstown road end was a terrace then the GAA would be able to have 38000 in a much lower stadium and that may please residents regarding light issues but wouldnt affect their concerns about traffic, concerts, saferty, asbestos and whatever else

This model of 8000 or 10000 in a modern high spec terrace which could easily be turned into seats would mean the GAA fans xould get their 38000, an all seater of 33000 or so would be available and some reduction could be made in the height of stand to show that something was done. Then the relevant authorities could get off their rear end and look at transport etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on December 24, 2014, 02:28:31 PM
I just noticed on the front of the Andytown News under a "Save Casement" headline that a "pressure group" of "West Belfast GAA stars", spearheaded by Brian White, has been formed to make sure there is a 38,000 capacity stadium built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on December 24, 2014, 03:42:49 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 24, 2014, 02:28:31 PM
I just noticed on the front of the Andytown News under a "Save Casement" headline that a "pressure group" of "West Belfast GAA stars", spearheaded by Brian White, has been formed to make sure there is a 38,000 capacity stadium built.

Who are the rest of these stars? Hopefully Brian White doesn't bring the rest of the Louth stars.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 24, 2014, 10:43:51 PM
Declan Bogue in the Tele, always a good read:

QuoteNew Casement Park will happen and it will be a victory for everyone (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/declan-bogue/new-casement-park-will-happen-and-it-will-be-a-victory-for-everyone-30860101.html)

BY DECLAN BOGUE – 24 DECEMBER 2014

(http://cdn1.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/declan-bogue/article30860100.ece/1b70c/ALTERNATES/h342/2014-12-24_spo_5679871_I1.JPG)
Out with the old: Casement Park will soon be rebuilt - or redeveloped - to become the new home of Ulster GAA

Sometime in the future, the diggers, wrecking balls and dumpers will be loaded onto a flat-bed trailer and sent off in the direction of west Belfast.

They will hold the traffic up on the Andersonstown Road as they negotiate the entrance to Casement Park. There might even be a few diehard protesters there to greet them and voice their disapproval to the rebuilding/redevelopment (depends what way you see it) of what will become the new homeof Ulster GAA. It will be a final act of defiance, but it will be nothing more than a token effort.

When you study the findings of Justice Mark Horner last week, it becomes clear that once the relevant bodies tidy up their planning application, a new Casement Park will be on its way.

Hailing Justice Horner's decision as in some way a 'victory' for the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents group is to miss the point by some distance. Does stating this mean that we have no sympathy for the residents?

Evidently, they would see this as the case.

Last month I conducted an interview with Hugo MacNeill, the former Ireland rugby full-back who chairs Ireland's bid to host the 2023 World Cup.

An alumnus of Blackrock, Trinity and Oxford, MacNeill is man of considerable pedigree and charm, necessary in the ambassadorial game. But he is also a formidable intellect - his day job is in charge of the Irish wing of Goldman Sachs Investment Bank. For kicks in his spare time, he is a director of The Ireland Funds.

He suggested that a bid for the World Cup would be helped immensely by having another major stadium in Northern Ireland available to host games. The GAA have long promised their stadiums would be made available and MacNeill said that if the World Cup bid was to work for Ireland, it had to work for all of Ireland, therefore a revamped Casement would be "crucial."

The residents group took umbrage with this feature. In a lengthy letter, excerpts of which were printed in this paper, they took me to task. Among the claims in the letter, it was said that rugby fans would not go to Casement Park, 'such is the reputation the media and others have portrayed of this area over the years'.

You can smell the rotting self-defeatism of that sentence.

I was also accused of trying to 'influence the judicial process', and the timing of the article was 'very transparent, not clever at all.' We will let that pass without comment.

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Perhaps most heinously, it was suggested, 'Were these articles part of the bargain with Ulster Rugby for letting the GAA use Ravenhill for the Game for Anto?'

Still, the residents do deserve some sympathy. The GAA's reluctance to alter the plans and facilitate some terracing seems to be bullish and lacking in pragmatism.

The new Pairc Uí Chaoimh in Cork city, a development that is experiencing no hold-ups, will have a capacity of 45,000. There will be terracing at both ends.

Terracing would provide a compromise between residents and the Ulster Council, but they remain uninterested.

In a decade's time, a lot of people will look back on this period and admit to themselves that a lot of things might have been handled differently. And better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 25, 2014, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 25, 2014, 11:20:12 AM
Blowing smoke up Hugo MacNeill's hole and telling us how vital our GAA ground is to a rugby tournament. You really enjoyed reading that?

To be fair I didn't see what Hugo Mc Neill had got to do with all this.

The stadium will happen, of that there's no doubt. It's just a pity it wasn't planned properly from the beginning and that relationships could have been better on all sides. But there's no point crying over spilt beer. it's time to sort this mess out and keep going otherwise, next year there'll be round bales on it again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 25, 2014, 07:37:30 PM
It's a reasonable portrayal of the situation that dismisses the residents' less legitimate gripes but recognizes that the GAA could have been a bit less arrogant in their dealings with them. And it doesn't have any anti-rugby or anti-soccer ranting as if other sports are some sort of sinister enemy to be slain; instead it recognizes what's to be gained for everybody from cooperating with Rugby. Yes, I enjoyed reading it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 26, 2014, 10:35:28 AM
Would the local Rugby soccor clubs pay?  Have they not been freeloading off councils for generations. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 26, 2014, 02:31:35 PM
Quote from: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.

Because the rules are very silly.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on December 27, 2014, 01:47:44 AM
nothing to do with the size of a GAA pitch then?  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 27, 2014, 07:52:44 AM
No. Rugby and soccer pitches can easily fit into a regulation GAA ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on December 27, 2014, 07:53:40 AM
BTW, San Francisco GAA rent their fields out to other sports including lacrosse and rugby. They wouldn't be able to pay the water bills if they didn't.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 29, 2014, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on December 24, 2014, 10:43:51 PM
Declan Bogue in the Tele, always a good read:

...

Last month I conducted an interview with Hugo MacNeill, the former Ireland rugby full-back who chairs Ireland's bid to host the 2023 World Cup.

An alumnus of Blackrock, Trinity and Oxford, MacNeill is man of considerable pedigree and charm, necessary in the ambassadorial game.
But he is also a formidable intellect - his day job is in charge of the Irish wing of Goldman Sachs Investment Bank...

Middle class bluff might cut it with those in Corporate GAA circles but it won't impress most of us that actively support and work at grassroots level. To put such store in hosting a one off event shows how completely out of touch those backing the Casement redevelopment are. There hasn't been popular support for making Casement Ulster GAA's HQ. At a time when clubs are struggling to field a team, they're driving this monument to their own glory.... what happened to pride in parish and the promotion of Irish sport and culture?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
QuoteMiddle class bluff might cut it with those in Corporate GAA circles but it won't impress most of us that actively support and work at grassroots level. To put such store in hosting a one off event shows how completely out of touch those backing the Casement redevelopment are. There hasn't been popular support for making Casement Ulster GAA's HQ. At a time when clubs are struggling to field a team, they're driving this monument to their own glory.... what happened to pride in parish and the promotion of Irish sport and culture?

While there may be good case for more work on many fronts, Casement is mostly paid for by the government, and the rugby thing fits well into public relations and this good public image is helpful in getting the planning through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on December 29, 2014, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
QuoteMiddle class bluff might cut it with those in Corporate GAA circles but it won't impress most of us that actively support and work at grassroots level. To put such store in hosting a one off event shows how completely out of touch those backing the Casement redevelopment are. There hasn't been popular support for making Casement Ulster GAA's HQ. At a time when clubs are struggling to field a team, they're driving this monument to their own glory.... what happened to pride in parish and the promotion of Irish sport and culture?

While there may be good case for more work on many fronts, Casement is mostly paid for by the government, and the rugby thing fits well into public relations and this good public image is helpful in getting the planning through.

Armaghniac - the government money is our taxpayer's money, that has been negotiated by our politicians. No doubt good old networking on the part of Corporate GAA was a factor in making Casement's redevelopment a priority. It's a grandiose plan, that's costing a lot of money and unlikely to benefit West Belfast's economy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.
Local GAA clubs wouldn't help one of their own let alone a soccer club... unless there was a wad of cash in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on December 30, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.
Local GAA clubs wouldn't help one of their own let alone a soccer club... unless there was a wad of cash in it.

That's a load of shit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 05:26:48 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 30, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.
Local GAA clubs wouldn't help one of their own let alone a soccer club... unless there was a wad of cash in it.

That's a load of shit
Absolutely not try getting access to a pitch when you need it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 31, 2014, 09:31:49 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 05:26:48 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 30, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.
Local GAA clubs wouldn't help one of their own let alone a soccer club... unless there was a wad of cash in it.

That's a load of shit
Absolutely not try getting access to a pitch when you need it.

Well I can only speak as I find and when we had to close our pitch for 6 months due to extending it, both our neighbouring clubs offered us their pitches if we needed it without being asked and we've cut lumps out of one another many's a time.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on December 31, 2014, 11:27:13 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on December 31, 2014, 09:31:49 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 05:26:48 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 30, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 30, 2014, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: orangeman on December 26, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
Why is it ok to allow the major Gaa stadia to share with rugby and soccer but gaa clubs can't do the same ?.
Local GAA clubs wouldn't help one of their own let alone a soccer club... unless there was a wad of cash in it.

That's a load of shit
Absolutely not try getting access to a pitch when you need it.

Well I can only speak as I find and when we had to close our pitch for 6 months due to extending it, both our neighbouring clubs offered us their pitches if we needed it without being asked and we've cut lumps out of one another many's a time.

That would be my experience as well in all honesty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on January 02, 2015, 11:43:56 AM
Danny Hughes talked some shite today in Irish News
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on April 01, 2015, 10:40:54 PM
Questions must be asked of Ulster Council now.They are making the FAI and IFA look super efficient and professional
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 01, 2015, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2015, 10:37:29 PM
Completely crazy. Thank fcuk the residents went for that JR.

Why what happened ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 01, 2015, 10:45:35 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2015, 10:44:05 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 01, 2015, 10:42:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2015, 10:37:29 PM
Completely crazy. Thank fcuk the residents went for that JR.

Why what happened ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32152502

Only for the residents this fcukin catastrophe would be near ready for use.

Just seen it. Looks like they were just gonna try and steamroll everyone without due process. Fair play to the residents.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2015, 11:02:47 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 01, 2015, 10:40:54 PM
Questions must be asked of Ulster Council now.They are making the FAI and IFA look super efficient and professional
IFA's Stadium falling down.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2015, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2015, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2015, 11:02:47 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 01, 2015, 10:40:54 PM
Questions must be asked of Ulster Council now.They are making the FAI and IFA look super efficient and professional
IFA's Stadium falling down.
Well, it's not. Quit with the hyperbole.
Well one stand is
Time for a Fearonesque thread " Why can't either the Nationalist or Unionist Communities in the North build a Stadium" :P
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 02, 2015, 06:09:38 PM
Well if it's not it looks pretty close to it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 02, 2015, 07:07:39 PM
A statement from the Ulster GAA, which the BBC only partly carried.

(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/Statement%2001042015_zps5q7pjp33.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on April 02, 2015, 08:53:03 PM
What's the point of that statement?

"We're building a stadium and you know what? We're going to build it according to the regulations. What about us, eh?"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 16, 2015, 05:29:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2015, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2015, 11:02:47 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 01, 2015, 10:40:54 PM
Questions must be asked of Ulster Council now.They are making the FAI and IFA look super efficient and professional
IFA's Stadium falling down.
Well, it's not. Quit with the hyperbole.
Another great call there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2015, 08:55:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 02, 2015, 08:53:03 PM
What's the point of that statement?

"We're building a stadium and you know what? We're going to build it according to the regulations. What about us, eh?"

If compliance with the regulations is one of the issues delaying things, then this is relevant enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2015, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 06:49:35 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 16, 2015, 05:29:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 01, 2015, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2015, 11:02:47 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 01, 2015, 10:40:54 PM
Questions must be asked of Ulster Council now.They are making the FAI and IFA look super efficient and professional
IFA's Stadium falling down.
Well, it's not. Quit with the hyperbole.
Another great call there


We'll see.

I see the IFA have been advised to demolish their dodgy stand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2015, 10:47:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2015, 10:37:55 PM
I see the IFA have been advised to demolish their dodgy stand.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-32336990

As OWC always claimed, nowhere else can beat the crack at Windors park!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 16, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:45:03 PM
I see that this has come from a preliminary engineer's report into the damage and I also see that the IFA are studying its findings.

In saying that, I bet they're raging they didn't grab a bigger lump of the cake originally.
Are you still sticking to your view that it's not going to come down?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: keep her low this half on April 16, 2015, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 16, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:45:03 PM
I see that this has come from a preliminary engineer's report into the damage and I also see that the IFA are studying its findings.

In saying that, I bet they're raging they didn't grab a bigger lump of the cake originally.
Are you still sticking to your view that it's not going to come down?
I can't see it.
Thats because you are on the wrong side of the west link, its easily visible from Tates avenue
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: keep her low this half on April 17, 2015, 12:00:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on April 16, 2015, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 16, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:45:03 PM
I see that this has come from a preliminary engineer's report into the damage and I also see that the IFA are studying its findings.

In saying that, I bet they're raging they didn't grab a bigger lump of the cake originally.
Are you still sticking to your view that it's not going to come down?
I can't see it.
Thats because you are on the wrong side of the west link, its easily visible from Tates avenue
There's actually a great view of it from the Whiterock but I suppose you're right. Thing is, who is going to be held accountable? The contractor? His insurance company? Bad workmanship? Will they fork out?

A work-a-round is on the cards IMO.
Thats exacly why it will be out of action for a very long time. All the intrested parties will have solicitors, none will accept any responsibility and it will be dragged through the courts for a long time. The stand is knackered you would never get public liability insurance for that in the shape it is in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 17, 2015, 01:27:14 AM
It's the fans' fault. All that bouncing up and down when Norn Iron's playing, sure no structure could put up with that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 17, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Guys the contractor O'Hare McGovern are responsible for this as their scheme is a design & build and they excavated too close to the foundations of the West stand without sheet piling it. They used a trench fill but it slipped and there was nothing stopping the loadings from the stand from failing. I would bet strongly that O'Hare & McGovern's insurance will cover this stand which cannot be salvaged, it will have to be demolished and rebuilt...FACT!!!. I would say a tasty £250,000 excess would be needed (or more) but I suppose its better than forking out about £10 million...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Over the Bar on April 17, 2015, 04:48:17 PM
I'd say it's no coincidence that your average Norn Iron fan is the size of Stephen Nolan and any women who attend have a size profile of Ruth Patterson / Pat Butcher.  Must be the fattest fans on the planet.   Apparently back in '82 our own Tony F was an avid OWC fan but got the boot once his mass dipped under 20st, hence his dislike for them now! ! ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 17, 2015, 07:02:23 PM
If I remember correctly I think O'Hare and McGovern won the contract to build this stand and when it was finished some of the workers boasted that they buried bottles of holy water and statues of the Virgin Mary and the like in the foundations.  Its no wonder the stand fell down
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on April 18, 2015, 11:38:15 AM
I see there is a new group formed in favour of Casement going ahead, Andersonstown Regeneration Committee.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2015, 09:25:42 PM
I see the IFA's dodgy Stand has to be demolished.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on April 20, 2015, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Minder on April 18, 2015, 11:38:15 AM
I see there is a new group formed in favour of Casement going ahead, Andersonstown Regeneration Committee.

Where can I sign up for the group?

I also some loose shrapnel in my pocket to donate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 20, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 17, 2015, 07:02:23 PM
If I remember correctly I think O'Hare and McGovern won the contract to build this stand and when it was finished some of the workers boasted that they buried bottles of holy water and statues of the Virgin Mary and the like in the foundations.  Its no wonder the stand fell down

A Sunday World special I presume Nige?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on April 17, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Guys the contractor O'Hare McGovern are responsible for this as their scheme is a design & build and they excavated too close to the foundations of the West stand without sheet piling it. They used a trench fill but it slipped and there was nothing stopping the loadings from the stand from failing. I would bet strongly that O'Hare & McGovern's insurance will cover this stand which cannot be salvaged, it will have to be demolished and rebuilt...FACT!!!. I would say a tasty £250,000 excess would be needed (or more) but I suppose its better than forking out about £10 million...

There's a lot more to it than this. Several structural engineers have signed off the works, they could well be in a bit of bother too
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 21, 2015, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on April 17, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Guys the contractor O'Hare McGovern are responsible for this as their scheme is a design & build and they excavated too close to the foundations of the West stand without sheet piling it. They used a trench fill but it slipped and there was nothing stopping the loadings from the stand from failing. I would bet strongly that O'Hare & McGovern's insurance will cover this stand which cannot be salvaged, it will have to be demolished and rebuilt...FACT!!!. I would say a tasty £250,000 excess would be needed (or more) but I suppose its better than forking out about £10 million...

There's a lot more to it than this. Several structural engineers have signed off the works, they could well be in a bit of bother too

??? There was nothing wrong with the West stand until O'Hare & McGovern started to excavate around the foundations of the stand. They simply did not have the adequate measures in place to keep the foundations in-tact (Sheet piling)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: illdecide on April 21, 2015, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on April 17, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Guys the contractor O'Hare McGovern are responsible for this as their scheme is a design & build and they excavated too close to the foundations of the West stand without sheet piling it. They used a trench fill but it slipped and there was nothing stopping the loadings from the stand from failing. I would bet strongly that O'Hare & McGovern's insurance will cover this stand which cannot be salvaged, it will have to be demolished and rebuilt...FACT!!!. I would say a tasty £250,000 excess would be needed (or more) but I suppose its better than forking out about £10 million...

There's a lot more to it than this. Several structural engineers have signed off the works, they could well be in a bit of bother too

??? There was nothing wrong with the West stand until O'Hare & McGovern started to excavate around the foundations of the stand. They simply did not have the adequate measures in place to keep the foundations in-tact (Sheet piling)

we'll see
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 21, 2015, 01:18:02 PM
We'll all i'm saying and think about it logically...The stand was perfect with no defects up until the Contractor decided to excavate this massive hole right beside the foundations of the stand, now the side of the stand that has failed just happens to be the side the hole was excavated (could be just a coincidence). I'm not saying you're wrong as it may well be the case but i think the odds are stacked against your theory.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 03:13:43 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 21, 2015, 01:18:02 PM
We'll all i'm saying and think about it logically...The stand was perfect with no defects up until the Contractor decided to excavate this massive hole right beside the foundations of the stand, now the side of the stand that has failed just happens to be the side the hole was excavated (could be just a coincidence). I'm not saying you're wrong as it may well be the case but i think the odds are stacked against your theory.

Let's just say I've seen lots of paperwork and emails regarding this matter, and it's not just as clear cut as making a scapegoat of the contractor. Any good contractor worth his salt will always get approvals and confirmations prior to carrying out work of this nature, plus getting approval of what he's done when he's finished.

This is not black and white, there could well be several people sweating this one out
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 21, 2015, 06:57:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 20, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 17, 2015, 07:02:23 PM
If I remember correctly I think O'Hare and McGovern won the contract to build this stand and when it was finished some of the workers boasted that they buried bottles of holy water and statues of the Virgin Mary and the like in the foundations.  Its no wonder the stand fell down

A Sunday World special I presume Nige?
I think so Johnny. It was either it of some other well informed source of that ilk
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 21, 2015, 07:00:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on April 16, 2015, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 16, 2015, 10:53:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 16, 2015, 10:45:03 PM
I see that this has come from a preliminary engineer's report into the damage and I also see that the IFA are studying its findings.

In saying that, I bet they're raging they didn't grab a bigger lump of the cake originally.
Are you still sticking to your view that it's not going to come down?
I can't see it.
Thats because you are on the wrong side of the west link, its easily visible from Tates avenue
There's actually a great view of it from the Whiterock but I suppose you're right. Thing is, who is going to be held accountable? The contractor? His insurance company? Bad workmanship? Will they fork out?

A work-a-round is on the cards IMO.
Viz magazine used to have a column entitled ' Legal advice from the Man in the Pub, Britain 's most ill informed correspondent '. It' wasn't you by any chance
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on April 21, 2015, 07:00:48 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 21, 2015, 06:57:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 20, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 17, 2015, 07:02:23 PM
If I remember correctly I think O'Hare and McGovern won the contract to build this stand and when it was finished some of the workers boasted that they buried bottles of holy water and statues of the Virgin Mary and the like in the foundations.  Its no wonder the stand fell down

A Sunday World special I presume Nige?
I think so Johnny. It was either it of some other well informed source of that ilk

Seriously, I know Catholic builders and there is no way they would throw away their statues of the Virgin Mary. Even the portable ones they always carry with them, no way would they show them away. Not a hope. Their Mammies would ate them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 21, 2015, 10:04:15 PM
Don't understand how the contractor started to excavate without sheet piling at the stands location, was always leaving himself open to possible ground slip. they can argue all they want, end of the day nothing was wrong prior to excavate work.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on April 21, 2015, 10:46:10 PM
I haven't seen the plans of the stadium but is there not a huge blessing in this for the ifa.   Will there be more money produced from the fund to rebuild this in keeping with the other new plans.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 22, 2015, 08:17:56 AM
No.  The West Stand is the newest section of the ground but it was going to get a major upgrade under the current plans including the provision of a new roof and an extension quadrant to merge it seamlessly into the new South Stand. I assume the replacement will therefore be like for like
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on April 22, 2015, 12:04:51 PM
They were excavating for a new community pool at the rear of the stand which I can only assume was part of the main development works which I'm sure would have had all the structural engineers/Architects input. Someone will be having a few sleepless nights but sure Peter & co will help them out with a few pound from Stormont to rebuild the stand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 22, 2015, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 21, 2015, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on April 17, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Guys the contractor O'Hare McGovern are responsible for this as their scheme is a design & build and they excavated too close to the foundations of the West stand without sheet piling it. They used a trench fill but it slipped and there was nothing stopping the loadings from the stand from failing. I would bet strongly that O'Hare & McGovern's insurance will cover this stand which cannot be salvaged, it will have to be demolished and rebuilt...FACT!!!. I would say a tasty £250,000 excess would be needed (or more) but I suppose its better than forking out about £10 million...

There's a lot more to it than this. Several structural engineers have signed off the works, they could well be in a bit of bother too

??? There was nothing wrong with the West stand until O'Hare & McGovern started to excavate around the foundations of the stand. They simply did not have the adequate measures in place to keep the foundations in-tact (Sheet piling)
Serious accusation, can you prove it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 22, 2015, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 22, 2015, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: illdecide on April 21, 2015, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: aontroim abu on April 21, 2015, 10:45:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on April 17, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Guys the contractor O'Hare McGovern are responsible for this as their scheme is a design & build and they excavated too close to the foundations of the West stand without sheet piling it. They used a trench fill but it slipped and there was nothing stopping the loadings from the stand from failing. I would bet strongly that O'Hare & McGovern's insurance will cover this stand which cannot be salvaged, it will have to be demolished and rebuilt...FACT!!!. I would say a tasty £250,000 excess would be needed (or more) but I suppose its better than forking out about £10 million...

There's a lot more to it than this. Several structural engineers have signed off the works, they could well be in a bit of bother too

??? There was nothing wrong with the West stand until O'Hare & McGovern started to excavate around the foundations of the stand. They simply did not have the adequate measures in place to keep the foundations in-tact (Sheet piling)
Serious accusation, can you prove it?

Who me? if it's to me then no i can't and i don't care if the whole stadium falls to the ground and is never re-built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whiskeysteve on April 22, 2015, 06:49:41 PM
deep excavation and de-watering next to a shallow found of a major structure with what kind of retaining works exactly???.... damn right they didnt have adequate provision
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2015, 09:06:59 PM
Serious accusation?Am sure there are some with a building / structural engineering back on here, the minute i seen they were building a pool behind the stand and didn't bother to have in place a proper sheet pile to act as a retaining wall, its the first point i look at with a ground slip failure causing partially collapse to the stand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 22, 2015, 11:02:34 PM
If your grasp of civil engineering is anything like your grasp of basic English grammar and punctuation, I hope we can be forgiven for not taking your opinions on this matter too seriously
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2015, 11:20:03 PM
it seems extremely likely that the neighbouring works had some role in the foundations slipping. The main question is who was involved in signing off on these. a number of people from consultant engineers to the H&S inspectors may be trying to hide at present.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim abu on April 23, 2015, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2015, 11:20:03 PM
it seems extremely likely that the neighbouring works had some role in the foundations slipping. The main question is who was involved in signing off on these. a number of people from consultant engineers to the H&S inspectors may be trying to hide at present.

at last somebody has hit the nail
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on April 23, 2015, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on April 22, 2015, 11:02:34 PM
If your grasp of civil engineering is anything like your grasp of basic English grammar and punctuation, I hope we can be forgiven for not taking your opinions on this matter too seriously

Have you finished that sentence?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on April 23, 2015, 12:27:06 PM
(http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/content/movie/teaser2/screenshot-008.jpg)

;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 23, 2015, 12:29:44 PM
Any more word on the new Casement?

Will they have to re-design the ground to accommodate a smaller capacity?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 23, 2015, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 23, 2015, 12:29:44 PM
Any more word on the new Casement?

Will they have to re-design the ground to accommodate a smaller capacity?
This is the official Windsor Park structural/civil engineering thread.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on April 30, 2015, 03:22:00 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32530978
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 30, 2015, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on April 30, 2015, 03:22:00 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32530978

I know Paul and he was there for my training for the Safety Officer role at Stadiums, he does things by the book and looks like a move was on to oust him out so that the plans could go ahead...it'll be interesting what follows :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on April 30, 2015, 04:15:40 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/safety-concerns-expressed-over-casement-park-plans-1.2195401?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Safety concerns expressed over Casement Park plans

Safety officer warns of Hillsborough situation at planned Belfast stadium



An expert has expressed concern about safety at the planned new Casement Park stadium in West Belfast.

Paul Scott from the Safety Technical Group said there were only two small exits and warned if an emergency happened, people could be crushed.

Approval for a new GAA facility – a proposed venue for Ireland's 2023 rugby World Cup bid – at the site was overturned in the High Court last December after residents won a legal challenge to block the plans.
   
Mr Scott said he was put under "undue pressure" by government officials to approve plans for the new ground.

He said: "There are a heck of a lot of people potentially trying to get out of a relatively small place."

He said the proposed 38,000-capacity stadium could not be emptied safely in an emergency and warned of a similar situation to the Hillsborough tragedy.

Mr Scott alleged he had been left stressed and suffering from sleepless nights following bullying by Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) officials.

"If we did have an incident and there was panic and if people tried to exit... crushing, that may be more a problem than fire.

"The people who suffer then are particularly the elderly, children, ladies.

"These GAA matches are very much family affairs."

He told Stormont's Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee people had to be able to get out in eight minutes at the most because of fire risk.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: TheOptimist on April 30, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: Clinker on April 30, 2015, 04:15:40 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/safety-concerns-expressed-over-casement-park-plans-1.2195401?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Safety concerns expressed over Casement Park plans

Safety officer warns of Hillsborough situation at planned Belfast stadium



An expert has expressed concern about safety at the planned new Casement Park stadium in West Belfast.

Paul Scott from the Safety Technical Group said there were only two small exits and warned if an emergency happened, people could be crushed.

Approval for a new GAA facility – a proposed venue for Ireland's 2023 rugby World Cup bid – at the site was overturned in the High Court last December after residents won a legal challenge to block the plans.
   
Mr Scott said he was put under "undue pressure" by government officials to approve plans for the new ground.

He said: "There are a heck of a lot of people potentially trying to get out of a relatively small place."

He said the proposed 38,000-capacity stadium could not be emptied safely in an emergency and warned of a similar situation to the Hillsborough tragedy.

Mr Scott alleged he had been left stressed and suffering from sleepless nights following bullying by Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) officials.

"If we did have an incident and there was panic and if people tried to exit... crushing, that may be more a problem than fire.

"The people who suffer then are particularly the elderly, children, ladies.

"These GAA matches are very much family affairs."

He told Stormont's Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee people had to be able to get out in eight minutes at the most because of fire risk.

If these allegations are true then those who are at the heart of them should be ashamed of themselves. If GAA people are involved they should banned from the organisation.

The thought that I and my family would be going to matches where their safety has been compromised makes me sick. Thank god these concerns have come to light before we potentially may have had a disaster on our hands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 30, 2015, 04:34:57 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on April 30, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: Clinker on April 30, 2015, 04:15:40 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/safety-concerns-expressed-over-casement-park-plans-1.2195401?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Safety concerns expressed over Casement Park plans

Safety officer warns of Hillsborough situation at planned Belfast stadium



An expert has expressed concern about safety at the planned new Casement Park stadium in West Belfast.

Paul Scott from the Safety Technical Group said there were only two small exits and warned if an emergency happened, people could be crushed.

Approval for a new GAA facility – a proposed venue for Ireland's 2023 rugby World Cup bid – at the site was overturned in the High Court last December after residents won a legal challenge to block the plans.
   
Mr Scott said he was put under "undue pressure" by government officials to approve plans for the new ground.

He said: "There are a heck of a lot of people potentially trying to get out of a relatively small place."

He said the proposed 38,000-capacity stadium could not be emptied safely in an emergency and warned of a similar situation to the Hillsborough tragedy.

Mr Scott alleged he had been left stressed and suffering from sleepless nights following bullying by Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) officials.

"If we did have an incident and there was panic and if people tried to exit... crushing, that may be more a problem than fire.

"The people who suffer then are particularly the elderly, children, ladies.

"These GAA matches are very much family affairs."

He told Stormont's Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee people had to be able to get out in eight minutes at the most because of fire risk.

If these allegations are true then those who are at the heart of them should be ashamed of themselves. If GAA people are involved they should banned from the organisation.

The thought that I and my family would be going to matches where their safety has been compromised makes me sick. Thank god these concerns have come to light before we potentially may have had a disaster on our hands.


So if the residents hadn't of stuck to their guns this wouldn't have went through anyway? I thought it was these greedy residents wanting to line their pockets as some would have us believe.


What is the story with the Andytown leisure centre? Is it getting pulled down to make more room? Thought there were a row of shops there anyway
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 30, 2015, 04:40:26 PM
Will Saint Jarlath Burns be tweeting now!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 30, 2015, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 30, 2015, 04:36:00 PM
I just shake my head now.

Forgot the smiley face for the first part and the leisure centre bit just for good measure 😈
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on April 30, 2015, 05:04:24 PM
Dear oh dear.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on April 30, 2015, 05:25:10 PM
Typical those at the helm of the GAA more interested in ego trips and finance instead of patrons' safety >:(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 30, 2015, 06:47:31 PM
The guy seems to be a bit of a jobsworth if you ask me
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 30, 2015, 10:13:22 PM
If anyone was in any doubt, this is a pig headed vanity project by certain figures in the GAA & Sinn Fein & thy want it to happen regardless of residents concerns or safety concerns.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on April 30, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
There was always a doubt in people's minds about some of those who opposed the way this stadium was being driven. I'd say there was a 10% of voice in my head yelling 'more money and/or anti-gaa and/or stubborn'.

Fair play to anyone who opposed these plans from the outset.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on April 30, 2015, 11:17:18 PM
Ulster GAA issued statement tonight denying pressurising anyone,saying spectator safety is always their priority and resenting getting drawn in to a HR grievance within SportNI
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on April 30, 2015, 11:48:19 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 30, 2015, 10:13:22 PM
If anyone was in any doubt, this is a pig headed vanity project by certain figures in the GAA & Sinn Fein & thy want it to happen regardless of residents concerns or safety concerns.
What a complete load of bollix. Are you saying the GAA was wrong to have a vision of a modern stadium for Ulster to replace the outdated shithole  that Clones has become. If people like you had their way Croke Park would never have been developed to the world class facility it is today. We'll see how valid the safety concerns were when the data is independently assessed as part of the DCAL review
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 01, 2015, 01:19:22 PM
A couple of points, this report relates to the old planning application which was thrown out by JR because of those concerns amongst other issues. Any new application will have to address these. It does question though the appointments by the SDLP of Mark H and of Caral by SF on the basis of political expediency rather than ability. Time to build this in Armagh me thinks!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 01, 2015, 02:34:37 PM
I've just had an idea.

What about building the stadium on a site big enough?

Like Musgrave Park, 300m away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2015, 02:43:40 PM
It a was always a concern that 38k could get out of here, i have bought a couple of houses at the fair end of the ground, demolish them and take for a exit point from the stadium. The maze site was always the best location if they could have sorted a better road network into it, political bitching messed that one up. Using casement for concerts i could never understand due to the noise levels, the foo fighters could be heard nearly 8 miles away one night 3yrs back, what would they sound like at this new stadium with houses just next door.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 01, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
Quote from: snatter on February 07, 2014, 01:35:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2014, 12:14:20 PM
QuoteFrom the aerial photo there must be around 50 properties along the stadium perimeter each one costing around 150000 pounds (or more) - The GAA could end up with a hefty bill very quickly

They could end up with a big bill, but they can rebuild these or just sell them again and get most of the money back.

Or they could do what they should have done from the start - build the f*ing stadium on a site that's f*ing big enough.

That way, you can

  • build it as high as you like.
  • have a roof on all four sides.
  • offer better views to more people by have the deepest stands down the sides of the pitches, not behind one of the goals.
  • run as many concerts as you like (critical for long term running costs).
  • avoid having to close one SW Belfast's arterial routes.
  • avoid years of legal challenges which you will almost certainly lose..

It's simple. Not complicated.
The Casement site is, and always was too small.

If Belfast doesn't stump up a larger site, (eg Musgrave Park), then move it out to somewhere that wants it (and take the rugby world cup along with us).

Can one of our noble, hard working Belfast City Councillors tell us how much would a token 100 year lease on Musgrave Park would be? And then compare that to the cost of blackmail-buying an ever-increasing list of houses around Casement.

It won't take a forensic accountant to tell you that it would be cheaper, even now, to go down the route of a proper stadium on a new site rather than building 3/4 of a stadium involving the senseless purchase of several dozens of surrounding houses at inflated prices.

Bump
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 01, 2015, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 21, 2013, 01:35:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2013, 10:08:01 AM
In another European country, or even in America, the City would vest these houses, it is not as if vast areas of Belfast have not been vested in the past. But in Ireland a stadia to be used by large numbers of the public seem to be deemed a private good.

However, Snatter has a point, the present location is mainly down to sectarianism.

You could buy the houses, halve the gardens and probably biuld new houses there and sell them to people happy enough with a short garden. The cost would not be that great.

No, I do not think that the present Casement site is down to sectarianism. I don't know where you got that from.

Casement was chosen because the GAA Ulster Council were advised by (an unknown & unpublished) consultancy report in 2010 that said Casement could accommodate a 40k fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't and never could - I do wish the original report was published, so all GAA members can see the basis for choosing a site that, whilst GAA-owned, was always too small and constrained.

--

RE Musgrave - I was making the obvious point that, whilst only a few hundred metres across the motorway, it is widely perceived as a neutral area. Consequently, it's more likely to attract the custom of Unionists for non-GAA events, eg concerts & conferences. With Unionists making up just short of 50% of the Grt Belfast population, that equates to more income. More income = less financial maintence burden in future.

--

RE Belfast City Council:  it is my view is that it is now clear that there are massive problems with ever getting the originally tendered 40k all seated & covered stadium on the Casement site.

That has been the case since
1. the capacity was dropped from the tendered 40k to 37k
2. the A'town Rd stand roof was removed, again to appease residents.
3. The official Northern Ireland Environment Agency report where their principal landscape architect slated the development, describing it as "overbearing" and not in keeping with its surroundings. See http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-setback-for-casement/
4. The improbability of the GAA being allowed to block main arterial routes for hours on event days.

The quality of what is now proposed falls well short of the project's original aims.

In such circumstances, I'd have expected Belfast City Council to have been proactive, and to jointly explore alternative locations with the GAA project team, in order that the originally planned top quality 40k fully covered stadium could be built. And built in Belfast. I'd have expected BCC to do this in recognition of the economic benefits of hosting a top class 40k stadium.

Approximately 10 months ago, BCC did have some "non-job" put out a press release about whether there was anything that BCC could do to facilitate or enhance the stadium developments at Windsor, Ravenhill & Casement. Reading the detail of the BCC initiative, it became clear that the main focus was to use the site of BCC's Olympia leisure centre to build a sports village alongside Windsor Park, enhancing and facilitating the Windsor redevelopment.

Now that the odds are stacked against Casement, why aren't BCC proactively looking at the feasability of granting Musgrave (or the Boucher Rd playing fields, or anywhere else) for the orignal 40k stadium proposed. Why aren't they engaging with the GAA to see how the best possible stadium & associated commercial facilities could be developed to give the best economic lift to Belfast?
Why aren't they examing how best they could use their power and influence to facilitate an alternative site?

That's what Cork adn Liverpool City Councils did.
Can any BCC staffers or councillors tell us why BCC aren't doing the same?

BCC need to step up to the mark and facilitate a much needed plan B. If they can use council property to facilitate the Windsor Park soccer development, then there's no reason they can't do the same for the GAA.

Bump
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 01, 2015, 03:19:53 PM
Quote from: snatter on January 03, 2014, 12:44:32 PM

Fold Housing plan for former Visteon factory in west Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25581367)


The old Ford factory is

  • a far larger site than Casement
  • consequently much further away from residents
  • is available for development right now
  • has it's own access road
  • is v close to Finaghy station

I wonder if some lateral thinking would allow the GAA to do some sort of a land swap with Fold, Casement for the Ford factory.

This would allow the GAA to

1. build a proper sized stadium with a roof on all four sides.
Planning permission would be straightforward for the GAA, as the stadium would be regarded as replacement economic activity, especially if some work units were incorporated into the build.
2. avoid an almost certain lengthy legal challenge from Casement residents, who may have a fair chance of winning.

Fold would benefit from planning,a s it's by no means certain that the planners will approve a change of use from economic activity to housing.

Any thoughts?

Bump
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 01, 2015, 05:03:33 PM
Triple bump it seems :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on May 01, 2015, 07:34:23 PM
As an ulster gaa man it is so disappointing to see the politicisation of our provincial stadium... so typical of Belfast. .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2015, 07:45:49 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on April 30, 2015, 04:49:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 30, 2015, 04:36:00 PM
I just shake my head now.

Forgot the smiley face for the first part and the leisure centre bit just for good measure 😈

Andytown being rebuilt so don't worry, and another centre up the road, scaremongering
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 02, 2015, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 01, 2015, 07:34:23 PM
As an ulster gaa man it is so disappointing to see the politicisation of our provincial stadium... so typical of Belfast. .

So it's the people of Belfast's fault that the Ulster GAA want a stadium 8k above what is required??

It sicken my hole the countryside bias towards the people of Belfast as if in some way we are better GAA people.

Ppl need to waken up and realise this stadium is being built to house concerts and not purely GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DermyTDredi on May 02, 2015, 03:35:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 02, 2015, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 01, 2015, 07:34:23 PM
As an ulster gaa man it is so disappointing to see the politicisation of our provincial stadium... so typical of Belfast. .

So it's the people of Belfast's fault that the Ulster GAA want a stadium 8k above what is required??

It sicken my hole the countryside bias towards the people of Belfast as if in some way we are better GAA people.

Ppl need to waken up and realise this stadium is being built to house concerts and not purely GAA.

Id say that the argument is not culchie v townie but just dong the job right and the Ulster council has fucked up completely and are buck-passing the way out rather than dealing with the issue...so if safety is the only problem then it should be the only thing that all stakeholders are concerned about...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Who?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on May 06, 2015, 06:30:03 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín
As we suspected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on May 06, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Who?
Whil I presume you are trying to make a cheap point
Carál Ní Chuilín the Sports Minister , the person on the government side  who will control the Grant money,
No exactly a non entity in the process,
All I know is The ulster rugby team areplaying awayt in theior new ravenhill while the GAA Stadium is still only a pipe Dream
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 09:50:05 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on May 06, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Who?
Whil I presume you are trying to make a cheap point
Carál Ní Chuilín the Sports Minister , the person on the government side  who will control the Grant money,
No exactly a non entity in the process,
All I know is The ulster rugby team areplaying awayt in theior new ravenhill while the GAA Stadium is still only a pipe Dream

no, asking who is the 'the anti-GAA' bias camp?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on May 06, 2015, 12:25:03 PM
I think Anti - GAA  is some one who automaticly opposes any thing they see as being good for the GAA. wheter that is Grants or a new stadium Favorable publicity or anything at all.
the likes of jerry keirnan  and Neil francis are  unashamedly so as would most of the IRFU if they had the guts to say it and many soccer heads too., i believe some member of the DUP would feel the same way

there may be good reasons not to go ahead with the redevelopment of Casement but these people would come up with any aguement to Put the GAA in Its place.
as regard the soccer  they do hate your u12 team as they players could be playing association football and they also the envy the facilities they play on and the volunteer structure behind it
now many GAA people are Anti soccer and Rugby and are describes as sectarian if they are
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 06, 2015, 01:04:11 PM
This is getting stupid. Fault on all sides here, residents, GAA and Politicians. I don't necessarily see an anti GAA bias.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 01:13:59 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on May 06, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Who?
Whil I presume you are trying to make a cheap point
Carál Ní Chuilín the Sports Minister , the person on the government side  who will control the Grant money,
No exactly a non entity in the process,
All I know is The ulster rugby team areplaying awayt in theior new ravenhill while the GAA Stadium is still only a pipe Dream

I wouldn't say its a cheap point at all.

Outside of Robinson & McGuinness I would struggle to name any Northern minister or public representative for that matter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Clueless politician way out of her depth more like.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 06, 2015, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Clueless politician way out of her depth more like.

Not that I dont agree with the above point you have made, but surely your previous post to this one negates anything you have to say outside of comment on Robinson & McGuinness.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 06, 2015, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Clueless politician way out of her depth more like.

Not that I dont agree with the above point you have made, but surely your previous post to this one negates anything you have to say outside of comment on Robinson & McGuinness.

Au contraire nag.

Between posts I did some intensive research on the bould Caral & came to the conclusion that she is both clueless & way out of her depth ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 06, 2015, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 06, 2015, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Clueless politician way out of her depth more like.

Not that I dont agree with the above point you have made, but surely your previous post to this one negates anything you have to say outside of comment on Robinson & McGuinness.

Au contraire nag.

Between posts I did some intensive research on the bould Caral & came to the conclusion that she is both clueless & way out of her depth ;D ;D ;D
Couldn't agree more and oul Mark H is not the sharpest tool in the box either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on May 06, 2015, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on May 06, 2015, 01:13:59 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on May 06, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
Quote from: theticklemister on May 06, 2015, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 05, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
"Anti-GAA element" delaying Casement redevelopment - Carál Ní Chuilín


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32594781

Who?
Whil I presume you are trying to make a cheap point
Carál Ní Chuilín the Sports Minister , the person on the government side  who will control the Grant money,
No exactly a non entity in the process,
All I know is The ulster rugby team areplaying awayt in theior new ravenhill while the GAA Stadium is still only a pipe Dream

I wouldn't say its a cheap point at all.

Outside of Robinson & McGuinness I would struggle to name any Northern minister or public representative for that matter.
then that say more about widning disconnect between north and south ,  when the IRA and the English were killing wach other it all seemed very relevant.
Hrdstation that sounds more like a Gaa man moonlighting in Soccerland . Most scoccer clubs down here are runout of a field with a set of goal posts
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on May 06, 2015, 09:30:45 PM
Did CnC give any funding to Tyrone they for Garvaghey?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on May 06, 2015, 09:57:00 PM
Hillary Clinton put the pressure on there.. great woman.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 06, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
Looks like Ní Chuilín caught lying through her teeth that herself or DCAL officials didn't know of safety concerns
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 06, 2015, 11:46:20 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 06, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
Looks like Ní Chuilín caught lying through her teeth that herself or DCAL officials didn't know of safety concerns
Well there is a quare gap.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on May 07, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
Andersonstown News ‏@ATownNews  · 1 min1 minute ago 
Your texts: Sinn Féin caught out again. Using bullying tactics to push Casement Park through, putting people's safety at risk

Andersonstown News ‏@ATownNews  · 34 secs34 seconds ago 
Mála Poist: Casement Park and the elections dominate our letters page today

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 07, 2015, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: Clinker on May 07, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
Andersonstown News ‏@ATownNews  · 1 min1 minute ago 
Your texts: Sinn Féin caught out again. Using bullying tactics to push Casement Park through, putting people's safety at risk

Andersonstown News ‏@ATownNews  · 34 secs34 seconds ago 
Mála Poist: Casement Park and the elections dominate our letters page today

Surprised the Andytown News printed anything critical of SF
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on May 07, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 07, 2015, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: Clinker on May 07, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
Andersonstown News ‏@ATownNews  · 1 min1 minute ago 
Your texts: Sinn Féin caught out again. Using bullying tactics to push Casement Park through, putting people's safety at risk

Andersonstown News ‏@ATownNews  · 34 secs34 seconds ago 
Mála Poist: Casement Park and the elections dominate our letters page today

Surprised the Andytown News printed anything critical of SF

That is how bad things are concerning Deathtrap Casement Park and everyone is aware of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on May 07, 2015, 01:45:51 PM
Looks like SF's plans for Adams Memorial Park are coming unstuck.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 07, 2015, 03:06:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 07, 2015, 11:47:34 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 06, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
Looks like Ní Chuilín caught lying through her teeth that herself or DCAL officials didn't know of safety concerns
:-[

Somebody take the shovel off the feckin idiot.
Martin McGuinness has tweeted that the Irish News are to retract that story tomorrow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on May 07, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Please read below the full text of the STG (Safety Technical Group ) dated 13/11/14. At this time residents had brought the Judicial Review to the High Court and Judge Horner was considering his verdict. Questions arise as to why this was necessary as it is clear that the application did not comply with the Green Guide on safety. Can the public have answers as to why their safety was disregarded and how this application was passed."

Meeting Record of the Safety Technical Group (STG) for the Re Development of Casement Park held on 13.11.14 at the House of Sport
Present:
- Sport NI - Sport NI - Sport NI
- PSNI - NIFRS  - NIAS
- BCC - BCC
Apology - - GAA

XX opened the meeting and thanked everyone for attending. He noted that the last meeting of the SAG had been held in May 2014. He recounted the timeline of the involvement of the STG regarding the Casement project and that the last Report of the STG had been forwarded to DCAL on 16.10.13.

The Report of 16.10.13 was given to DCAL prior to a meeting at Causeway Exchange involving some of the members of the STG, DCAL, the GAA, and the Design Team. The meeting was called by DCAL to discuss STG concerns regarding emergency exiting, and the provision of uncovered seating at the proposed stadium and had included some robust discussions. DCAL had advised that an emergency exiting strategy would be forthcoming in the incoming weeks, along with the minutes of the meeting; however these documents have not been received by the STG some 13 months later. It was further noted that an emergency exiting strategy for the proposed stadium had been requested repeatedly by the STG since spring 2013. The plans that the STG provided comment on in the 16.10.13 Report had been forwarded to the Group in late summer 2013 - no further plans have been received for consideration by the STG since that time .

XX advised the Group of meetings that Sport NI had attended that involved DCAL and other agencies that had occurred since the May STG meeting, and of related correspondence etc.

It was noted that DCAL had advised Sport NI that an application for planning permission would not be forwarded, nor would the tendering process to select a Design and Build contractor be commenced before a design for the stadium had been approved by the STG. Both of these processes have now taken place despite agreement not having been reached.

XX advised that the Design and Build contract had been awarded to the Buckingham - Heron Group and of the tenor of a meeting held with representatives of the Group, DCAL, and the GAA held in June.

There was some discussion regarding the Judicial Review into the decision to approve planning permission for the proposed venue.

XX advised of meetings involving the PSNI, the GAA and DCAL that he had attended and of requests made for an emergency exiting strategy for the proposed venue. He noted that at a meeting held on 16.7.14 the GAA had advised the PSNI that an emergency exiting strategy would be provided by 28.8.14 however this document had not been received. He noted that the PSNI had advised the GAA that meetings regarding emergency exiting should involve all agencies represented on the STG.

XX advised of a further meeting held with representatives of the Buckingham Heron Group held in October when Sport NI were told that DCAL had advised the Buckingham Heron Group to speak to each organisation represented on the STG separately and not as a Group.

The Group noted the following:
• The last set of drawings issued to the STG for comment showed that the proposed stadium has a unique design with approximately 72% of the spectators exiting onto the Andersonstown Road - neither the Design Team or members of the STG are aware of any stadium in Great Britain with similar exiting arrangements,
• The last set of drawings submitted to the STG indicated that the stadium did not comply with the content of the Green Guide/ Red Guide, however it was noted that deviations from the content of these documents is permissible provided that an equal or greater level of safety is provided,
• The STG have been requesting an emergency exiting strategy since spring 2013 however this document has not been forthcoming,
• An incident on the Andersonstown Road to the front of the stadium during a fixture could result in some or all of the exits to the Andersonstown Road being unavailable.
• The likelihood of an incident that resulted in the 'loss' of exits during a fixture was low but was reasonably foreseeable.
• The 'loss' of exits to the Andersonstown Road at a well-attended fixture would be likely to result in an emergency exiting time (to a place of safety or reasonable safety) in excess of 8- minutes with attendant concerns relating to spectator safety,
• The rendezvous point for the emergency services is at present located on the Andersonstown Road to the 'city side' of Casement Park - this could lead to access difficulties for emergency vehicles if spectators were on the 'city side' of the Andersonstown Road following an evacuation of the stadium, and the rendezvous point could compromise spectator flow away from the stadium.
• There would be the potential for parking restrictions to be required in the roadways in the vicinity of the stadium depending on the emergency exiting strategy proposed
• The Group noted that although initial discussions relating to the development of the stadium could be discussed with Sport NI, they stated that any proposals for the development of the stadium should be considered by the STG collectively.

It was agreed that the STG would continue to request a copy of the emergency exiting strategy to permit comparison to be made against national guidance and comment accordingly.

The meeting concluded

https://www.facebook.com/Morabelfast/posts/1605133726369085:0
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on May 07, 2015, 04:48:38 PM
Is the money still available for Casement? If so, how long will it be available for?

It's getting ridiculous now really. Abandon the feckin thing.

How many folk in Ulster want to be travelling to big games in Belfast? I know I wouldn't be too happy doing that from Fermanagh, Donegal or Cavan and the likes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on May 07, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 07, 2015, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2015, 03:06:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 07, 2015, 11:47:34 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 06, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
Looks like Ní Chuilín caught lying through her teeth that herself or DCAL officials didn't know of safety concerns
:-[

Somebody take the shovel off the feckin idiot.
Martin McGuinness has tweeted that the Irish News are to retract that story tomorrow.
No. He said that they will clarify their "inaccurate headline". The story is what it is - evidence that Ní Chuilín and DCAL were made aware on a number of occasions about the safety concerns which Ní Chuilín has claimed she only found out about recently.
OK I misread it. Time though that the Shinners started appointing on ability as opposed to the war record.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: omaghjoe on May 13, 2015, 06:06:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2015, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 07, 2015, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 07, 2015, 03:06:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 07, 2015, 11:47:34 AM
Quote from: Minder on May 06, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
Looks like Ní Chuilín caught lying through her teeth that herself or DCAL officials didn't know of safety concerns
:-[

Somebody take the shovel off the feckin idiot.
Martin McGuinness has tweeted that the Irish News are to retract that story tomorrow.
No. He said that they will clarify their "inaccurate headline". The story is what it is - evidence that Ní Chuilín and DCAL were made aware on a number of occasions about the safety concerns which Ní Chuilín has claimed she only found out about recently.
OK I misread it. Time though that the Shinners started appointing on ability as opposed to the war record.

That's the problem tho, anyone with ability is few and far between with the Shinners, people with ability don't want to associated with "combatants"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 13, 2015, 09:48:19 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2015, 11:50:52 PM
All a bit crazy now. Seems that everyone was doing their bit to get The Stadium of Death built. Casement Black Diaries indeed.

Makes you wonder:
a) Had the residents not fought their corner, this stadium would be near built by now. Yikes!!
b) What other projects are being pushed through by such shysters whereby public safety is compromised?

Worrying.

That's the bit that gets me, all these other bolloxes are now coming out and covering their holes, Paul Scott, Antoinette McKeown, our representatives, the Ulster Council and the bould Carál who doesn't seem to know her arse from her elbow, yet safety concerns were being brushed under the carpet to get the thing built.

I find it hard to believe that the Ulster Council Reps didn't know all along about these concerns and they really should be taken to task for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 13, 2015, 01:30:44 PM
Moving on....if Belfast really wants the economic benefits that a 40k stadium brings, it has to stump up a site.

My favourite is Musgrave Park, any other possible sites?

If Belfast doesn't want it, take it to Dungannon / Armagh / Antrim town, or whoever offers the best package.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 13, 2015, 02:00:46 PM
Snatter , do you live facing Musgrave and looking free tickets into all events?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 13, 2015, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 13, 2015, 02:00:46 PM
Snatter , do you live facing Musgrave and looking free tickets into all events?

Nope, its just the best one I can think of.
Have you/anybody else any serious ideas?

If we're to spend this money, we need to come up with a viable plan B pretty pronto before some excuse is made to claw the money back.
Leaving us in the sadly predictable situation where the OWC and rugger crowds get what they want and we get short changed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 13, 2015, 04:52:37 PM
Snatter does it have to be in the Greater Belfast Area?

I'd imagine the cost of a site within Musgrave Park would be much greater than say Armagh/Portadown/Dungannon direction.

As the stadium is being built for concerts and not just GAA I'd assume Belfast is the preferred option.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 13, 2015, 04:57:14 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 13, 2015, 04:52:37 PM
Snatter does it have to be in the Greater Belfast Area?

I'd imagine the cost of a site within Musgrave Park would be much greater than say Armagh/Portadown/Dungannon direction.

As the stadium is being built for concerts and not just GAA I'd assume Belfast is the preferred option.


If its built in Dungannon at least Nathan Carter would be guaranteed to fill it once a year!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on May 13, 2015, 06:06:47 PM
And a Dark Arts festival.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on May 13, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
What part of "the money is for Casement Park only" do you not understand. It's Casement or nothing....No Lurgan, Portadown, Dungannon, Armagh or fecking Musgrave.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on May 14, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Good to see that GAA officials have now spoken on the subject & cleared up any doubt about planning permission & safety certificate being one & the same thing!!

some scaremongering done on here by some with hidden agendas i would think!

glad to see that it has all been straightened out in todays irish news!!

and as illdecide says, it is casement or nowhere - i heard a whimper that the stadium plans to be re-submitted will be a slightly smaller size than the preious one, possibly 32k seater. but sure someone will find fault with that also & run to the media with a complaint.

i for one support the casement project & hope to see it completed sooner rather than later - with a valid safety certificate of course!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 14, 2015, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 13, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
What part of "the money is for Casement Park only" do you not understand. It's Casement or nothing....No Lurgan, Portadown, Dungannon, Armagh or fecking Musgrave.

Complete c**k. The money is ringfenced for the construction of one stadium only.
There are no stipulations as to location. It's for the GAA, and the GAA alone, to decide where it wants to put it.

What part of that do YOU not understand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on May 14, 2015, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: snatter on May 14, 2015, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 13, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
What part of "the money is for Casement Park only" do you not understand. It's Casement or nothing....No Lurgan, Portadown, Dungannon, Armagh or fecking Musgrave.

Complete c**k. The money is ringfenced for the construction of one stadium only.
There are no stipulations as to location. It's for the GAA, and the GAA alone, to decide where it wants to put it.

What part of that do YOU not understand.
Do you honestly think that anywhere other than Casement was ever going to be considered for this? And no, it isn't necessarily for the GAA to decide  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on May 14, 2015, 10:23:57 AM
Snatter, the GAA have said they are rebuilding casement, therefore the money will be spent on casement!

every other county has had their county ground upgraded recently except antrim & they see belfast being the largest city in the north as being the ideal place for a stadium.

it wouldnt make sense to build in tyrone where they have omagh, down they have newry, armagh has the athletic grounds, etc, etc. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on May 14, 2015, 10:34:45 AM
This has been said a 100 times here and it always comes back to build the stadium somewhere else.

The GAA aren't building a standalone GAA stadium. They are building a long term, multi use stadium with conference and many other uses. Its a Croke park Lite that is open 7 days a week for many uses.

It will be a money generator that will rely on a population on its doorstep, a large corporate and business community that will put to use its non-sporting facilities on  a commercial basis. It will look to having a social business arm that will see a range of events - from concerts to private weddings.

This ain't going to happen anywhere but Belfast. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on May 14, 2015, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 14, 2015, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 13, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
What part of "the money is for Casement Park only" do you not understand. It's Casement or nothing....No Lurgan, Portadown, Dungannon, Armagh or fecking Musgrave.

Complete c**k. The money is ringfenced for the construction of one stadium only.
There are no stipulations as to location. It's for the GAA, and the GAA alone, to decide where it wants to put it.

What part of that do YOU not understand.

I didn't understand any of it...you're right and i'm wrong. Just build the thing in Musgrave then ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on May 15, 2015, 01:49:03 PM
Good to see some of our former county managers with a letter of support for casement in today's irish news!!

some times you only the hear the opposition, good to know there are people in west belfast who do support the project!!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 15, 2015, 01:59:26 PM
Quote from: culchie11 on May 15, 2015, 01:49:03 PM
Good to see some of our former county managers with a letter of support for casement in today's irish news!!

some times you only the hear the opposition, good to know there are people in west belfast who do support the project!!

With a potential reduced capacity of 32K, will it meet the Ulster Councils needs for football finals, etc ,etc??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 15, 2015, 02:25:43 PM
Quote from: Bingo on May 14, 2015, 10:34:45 AM
This has been said a 100 times here and it always comes back to build the stadium somewhere else.

The GAA aren't building a standalone GAA stadium. They are building a long term, multi use stadium with conference and many other uses. Its a Croke park Lite that is open 7 days a week for many uses.

It will be a money generator that will rely on a population on its doorstep, a large corporate and business community that will put to use its non-sporting facilities on  a commercial basis. It will look to having a social business arm that will see a range of events - from concerts to private weddings.

This ain't going to happen anywhere but Belfast.

Totally agree. But.....without a site in Belfast, it's not going to happen.

That's where Belfast City Council have to put up - give us a site, or shut up - if we're forced to locate elsewhere. And by a site, I mean one big enough to host a 40k stadium, with associated ancillary functions. That excludes the current Casement site.

A 40k stadium is a massive economic lift for any city, especially one dependant on public sector funding. Belfast's economy is going to be savaged by incoming Tory austerity.

That's why BCC needs to copy its counterparts in Cork and Liverpool and facilitate the development of a brand new stadium. Lease us a site on good terms, issue the necessary compulsory purchase orders, whatever needs to be done.

If they don't, call Belfast's bluff, and move it to wherever is prepared to stump up an attractive ££ package to host us and the economic benefits we bring.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 15, 2015, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 14, 2015, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 14, 2015, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 13, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
What part of "the money is for Casement Park only" do you not understand. It's Casement or nothing....No Lurgan, Portadown, Dungannon, Armagh or fecking Musgrave.

Complete c**k. The money is ringfenced for the construction of one stadium only.
There are no stipulations as to location. It's for the GAA, and the GAA alone, to decide where it wants to put it.

What part of that do YOU not understand.

I didn't understand any of it...you're right and i'm wrong. Just build the thing in Musgrave then ;)


Casement was chosen because the GAA Ulster Council were advised by (an unknown & unpublished) consultancy report in 2010 that said Casement could accommodate a 40k fully covered stadium.

Clearly it can't and never could - I do wish the original report was published, so all GAA members can see the basis for choosing a site that, whilst GAA-owned, was always too small and constrained.

Once we have a site that's big enough, we can
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 16, 2015, 04:20:20 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 15, 2015, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 14, 2015, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: snatter on May 14, 2015, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on May 13, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
What part of "the money is for Casement Park only" do you not understand. It's Casement or nothing....No Lurgan, Portadown, Dungannon, Armagh or fecking Musgrave.

Complete c**k. The money is ringfenced for the construction of one stadium only.
There are no stipulations as to location. It's for the GAA, and the GAA alone, to decide where it wants to put it.

What part of that do YOU not understand.

I didn't understand any of it...you're right and i'm wrong. Just build the thing in Musgrave then ;)


Casement was chosen because the GAA Ulster Council were advised by (an unknown & unpublished) consultancy report in 2010 that said Casement could accommodate a 40k fully covered stadium.

Clearly it can't and never could - I do wish the original report was published, so all GAA members can see the basis for choosing a site that, whilst GAA-owned, was always too small and constrained.

Once we have a site that's big enough, we can

  • build the fecker as high as we like to proudly advertise our presence.
  • have a roof on all four sides.
  • offer better views to more people by have the deepest stands down the sides of the pitches, not behind one of the goals.
run as many concerts as we like (critical for long term running costs).
  • avoid having to close one SW Belfast's arterial routes just to disperse exiting crowds.
  • avoid years of legal challenges which we will almost certainly lose.
I remain unconvinced by this, especially with a 40,000 capacity stadium. Northern Ireland has only ever had 2 concerts with a crowd of that size - Snow Patrol in Bangor, and Avicii in Boucher Paying Fields. Ignoring the shame of the latter, that shows that (i) concerts of that size can be accommodated already, but (ii) they're 'once in a blue moon'. The notion that concerts would be critical to the long-terms success of the stadium... well we might as well scrap the idea now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Over the Bar on May 16, 2015, 07:42:09 PM
There were 40,000 people at Aviici??

You also forgot U2 in Botanic Gardens which had at minimum 40k.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 17, 2015, 12:18:33 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 16, 2015, 07:42:09 PM
There were 40,000 people at Aviici??

You also forgot U2 in Botanic Gardens which had at minimum 40k.
Yes to Aviici. It was reportedly the highest attendance for a gig in NI, depressing as that sounds.

U2, fair enough, a long time ago now, but was just under 40,000 apparently. Either way, that's how many big gigs in the last 20 years? Hardly the basis for sustaining a large stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on May 17, 2015, 10:18:51 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2015, 12:18:33 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 16, 2015, 07:42:09 PM
There were 40,000 people at Aviici??

You also forgot U2 in Botanic Gardens which had at minimum 40k.
Yes to Aviici. It was reportedly the highest attendance for a gig in NI, depressing as that sounds.

U2, fair enough, a long time ago now, but was just under 40,000 apparently. Either way, that's how many big gigs in the last 20 years? Hardly the basis for sustaining a large stadium.

Free money to build it.

A few concerts a year together with a gaa game or two plus all the big soccer, rugby games, other sports and all the other commercial opportunities will ensure that the limited company will return a profit year on year.

Is a new hotel proposed as well ?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 17, 2015, 10:39:24 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 17, 2015, 10:18:51 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 17, 2015, 12:18:33 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 16, 2015, 07:42:09 PM
There were 40,000 people at Aviici??

You also forgot U2 in Botanic Gardens which had at minimum 40k.
Yes to Aviici. It was reportedly the highest attendance for a gig in NI, depressing as that sounds.

U2, fair enough, a long time ago now, but was just under 40,000 apparently. Either way, that's how many big gigs in the last 20 years? Hardly the basis for sustaining a large stadium.

Free money to build it.

A few concerts a year together with a gaa game or two plus all the big soccer, rugby games, other sports and all the other commercial opportunities will ensure that the limited company will return a profit year on year.

Is a new hotel proposed as well ?.
A few concerts a year? There has been 3 concerts of that size in NI over the past 20 years, yet you see 3 a year once Casement is built?

And what big soccer or rugby games would be played in Casement? Windsor Park will have a capacity of under 20,000 - that shows the demand for soccer. What soccer teams would you see playing in Casement? And rugby - why would Casement get a game rather than Ravenhill? Outside of the World Cup bid, there's very little potential for rugby at Casement.

No idea what "all the other commercial opportunities" are.

Free money to build something doesn't mean you build something that isn't sustainable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stew on May 17, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

Clones needs to go away, if Casement is developed it should become the home of Ulster championship finals in the future.

Amenities are far superior at Casement and if I never set foot in clones again I would be happy enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 17, 2015, 01:56:20 PM
Quote from: stew on May 17, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
Amenities are far superior at Casement and if I never set foot in clones again I would be happy enough.

Amenities are only part of the story, I've always found the atmosphere good in Clones, and do not look forward to the chilly welcome in West Belfast, if they ever do actually build a stadium there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 22, 2015, 07:46:38 PM
Did anyone see Ní Chuílins "performance" the other day at a committee discussing Casement safety concerns, at Stormont? Some DCAL fella passing her the answers to questions she was asked by Basil Mc Crea, talk about being on top of your brief.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=958065164227476&id=570815229619140&_rdr
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 22, 2015, 08:16:05 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 22, 2015, 07:46:38 PM
Did anyone see Ní Chuílins "performance" the other day at a committee discussing Casement safety concerns, at Stormont? Some DCAL fella passing her the answers to questions she was asked by Basil Mc Crea, talk about being on top of your brief.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=958065164227476&id=570815229619140&_rdr
On the ball!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 23, 2015, 08:50:07 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 22, 2015, 07:46:38 PM
Did anyone see Ní Chuílins "performance" the other day at a committee discussing Casement safety concerns, at Stormont? Some DCAL fella passing her the answers to questions she was asked by Basil Mc Crea, talk about being on top of your brief.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=958065164227476&id=570815229619140&_rdr
It is quite obvious she hasn't two brain cells to rub together. Like most of these shite hawks she's a front/mouthpiece and all the thinking is done elsewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Glensman on May 25, 2015, 08:38:38 AM
Any inside track on where the Social Park debacle sits Hardstation? Would be good to have at least that one closed off. Last I heard they had yer man Eamon O'Brien (of Croke/Garth Brooks fame) involved?! Did the MORA group have him involved too?

A real shame what happened re social club but hopefully they come to some sort of arrangement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Glensman on May 25, 2015, 11:35:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2015, 10:14:55 AM
That was resolved months ago. Club is still open and basically a waiting game before they are moved to their temporary premises. Yes, both the club and the residents sought advice from Eamon O'Brien (long before Brooksgate).

For now, the social club end of this ongoing pantomime is sorted.

Good to hear it. Hopefully this element goes smoothly and somehow relations between county board and social club can be mended. Assume this might not be the case with current administration but I'm not close enough to it to know?!

What is Eamon O'Brien's story? Does he get paid for his services by these guys or giving of his time for free?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on May 28, 2015, 07:32:38 PM
Some members of the Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee have criticised the amount of money spent on the planned redevelopment of Belfast's Casement Park.

The committee is investigating a safety expert's claims that his concerns over emergency exiting plans were ignored.

A Stormont inquiry into safety concerns over the redevelopment has been questioning senior civil servants.

Committee members said the project may need to go back to the drawing board.


[Here] (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32913093#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on May 29, 2015, 10:17:41 AM
How will GAA address safety at Casement?


In their letter published on May 14, the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) clearly state their intention to proceed with a planning application for a new provincial stadium in the coming weeks.

Given the issues that have recently emerged around safe capacity at Casement Park, a new planning application would seem premature at this time, particularly as the project is set to receive over £61 million of public funding.

The fundamental problem faced by the GAA in meeting the official government guidance on safety of sports grounds is that Casement Park is surrounded on three sides by residential properties which abut directly onto the perimeter of the ground. For a ground of its size, that is unique within these islands.

The Government's guidance recommends that a modern stadium should have continuous circulation around the ground, to facilitate safe entrance and exit, including in emergency situations. The guidance allows for 'deviations' from the recommended standard, but any such 'deviations' must provide "an equal or greater level of safety".

Currently, Casement Park only has continuous circulation around one quarter of the ground. That is a 75 per cent shortfall compared to the safety guidance. For that reason, the current safe capacity of the ground, under modern standards, is in the range 14-19,000.

The GAA's problem lies in how to deal with an emergency evacuation situation which closes off the Andersonstown Road exits, which account for around 70 per cent of current exiting capacity.

The Department for Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL), which is providing the £61m funding for the project, set up the Safety Technical Group (STG) to provide advice on meeting the government's safety requirements. The STG met on at least seven occasions over 2013 and 2014. Serious concerns over the emergency exiting issue were a constant and recurring theme in their deliberations.

Nonetheless, in June 2013, the GAA proceeded with a planning application for a 38,000 all-seated stadium design that would not, according to the STG, have complied with the guidance for implementing the Safety of Sports Grounds legislation. That planning approval was quashed following MORA's judicial review action. But a 38,000 stadium with a safe capacity of 14-19,000 would surely have been a white elephant by any definition.
 
Based on their latest statement, the GAA seem set to do the same again i.e. to first apply for planning permission for a provincial stadium (35,000+) and leave the fundamental safety issues until later.

But the GAA have yet to clarify how they propose dealing with the fundamental problem of ensuring safe evacuation from Casement Park. How much more would they need to spend to do that? And where would the funds come from?

To that extent, where is the wisdom of applying for planning permission for a provincial stadium of 35,000+ when, clearly, the safety experts think the safe capacity is much less than that?  That's a strategy that represents a gamble with £61 million of public funds.


[Here] (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/how-will-gaa-address-safety-at-casement-1-6748947)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 29, 2015, 10:32:23 AM
Various public bodies are pontificating about safety. But presumably they could CPO a couple of houses at the opposite end of the park and build a gate and solve the problem without further ado.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2015, 10:48:24 AM
Quote from: Clinker on May 29, 2015, 10:17:41 AM
How will GAA address safety at Casement?


In their letter published on May 14, the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) clearly state their intention to proceed with a planning application for a new provincial stadium in the coming weeks.

Given the issues that have recently emerged around safe capacity at Casement Park, a new planning application would seem premature at this time, particularly as the project is set to receive over £61 million of public funding.

The fundamental problem faced by the GAA in meeting the official government guidance on safety of sports grounds is that Casement Park is surrounded on three sides by residential properties which abut directly onto the perimeter of the ground. For a ground of its size, that is unique within these islands.

The Government's guidance recommends that a modern stadium should have continuous circulation around the ground, to facilitate safe entrance and exit, including in emergency situations. The guidance allows for 'deviations' from the recommended standard, but any such 'deviations' must provide "an equal or greater level of safety".

Currently, Casement Park only has continuous circulation around one quarter of the ground. That is a 75 per cent shortfall compared to the safety guidance. For that reason, the current safe capacity of the ground, under modern standards, is in the range 14-19,000.

The GAA's problem lies in how to deal with an emergency evacuation situation which closes off the Andersonstown Road exits, which account for around 70 per cent of current exiting capacity.

The Department for Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL), which is providing the £61m funding for the project, set up the Safety Technical Group (STG) to provide advice on meeting the government's safety requirements. The STG met on at least seven occasions over 2013 and 2014. Serious concerns over the emergency exiting issue were a constant and recurring theme in their deliberations.

Nonetheless, in June 2013, the GAA proceeded with a planning application for a 38,000 all-seated stadium design that would not, according to the STG, have complied with the guidance for implementing the Safety of Sports Grounds legislation. That planning approval was quashed following MORA's judicial review action. But a 38,000 stadium with a safe capacity of 14-19,000 would surely have been a white elephant by any definition.
 
Based on their latest statement, the GAA seem set to do the same again i.e. to first apply for planning permission for a provincial stadium (35,000+) and leave the fundamental safety issues until later.

But the GAA have yet to clarify how they propose dealing with the fundamental problem of ensuring safe evacuation from Casement Park. How much more would they need to spend to do that? And where would the funds come from?

To that extent, where is the wisdom of applying for planning permission for a provincial stadium of 35,000+ when, clearly, the safety experts think the safe capacity is much less than that?  That's a strategy that represents a gamble with £61 million of public funds.


[Here] (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/how-will-gaa-address-safety-at-casement-1-6748947)

We only have to look at Liverpool to see both Goodison and Anfield surrounded by housing and used to capacity up to 30 times a year so not exactly a unique situation. If they need more exits then buying a few of the surrounding houses to provide extra exits would greatly reduce evacuation times. Sure isnt the leisure centre next door and again access can be gained by purchasing a house or 2  providing 'circulation' in the event of an emergency. Didnt very early plans even have a footbridge over the motorway so again other options available. After initially supporting this develpoment I now for the life of me dont understand why the GAA are persevering - too many potential problems in the future as the residents will clearly complain about any big game or concert so better to move somewhere else where there are no restrictions. Musgarve was mentioned earlier but the north foreshore is probably a more likely option.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermGael on May 29, 2015, 10:50:39 AM
Was just going to mention Newcastle's ground.
It's in the center of the city and they seem to have no issues with emergency evacuation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2015, 10:53:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2015, 10:32:23 AM
Various public bodies are pontificating about safety. But presumably they could CPO a couple of houses at the opposite end of the park and build a gate and solve the problem without further ado.

The safety is an issue but I mentioned on another blog that noone seems too bothered about Stansted airport which has thousands of people packed in a tiny corridor every evening queing to get on a single escalator to then take them through passport control. I would be amazed if their evacuation times were up to scratch or even how they would get access to a medical emergency in that corridor in time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2015, 10:59:32 AM
(http://yourholidayhomes.com/images/content/thinks/356/orig-anfield-stadium-wallpaper-3-1024x768.jpg)

(http://static2.helicentre.com/uploads/image/articles/efc.jpg)

Circualtion doesnt look too great here and as I mentioned these grounds host 30 odd games a year, Caesment would be lucky to be filled 3/4 times a year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:51:19 AM
Guys it doesn't matter if the stadium is in the middle of housing estates or not it's about the circulation space around the stands to let the patrons egress safely. Not sure of the exact time scale  for an evacuation but I think it's 8 mins from the announcement to a total empty stadium and Casement falls well short of that atm. It's up to the designers to try and find space from somewhere to achieve this and it's obviously not there to find or they'd have already done it. As someone stated the obvious solution is to buy some property in the right location to achieve this but the key is keeping them away from Anderstown Road, i'm not that familiar with the area but I think that's their problem that no matter where in the stadium they egress from they're all heading to Anderstown road eventually and that backs up and filters right back into stadium which is back to square 1.

Is there a location at the back of the housing that can take patrons elsewhere other than Anderstown Road?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 29, 2015, 12:16:07 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:51:19 AM
Guys it doesn't matter if the stadium is in the middle of housing estates or not it's about the circulation space around the stands to let the patrons egress safely. Not sure of the exact time scale  for an evacuation but I think it's 8 mins from the announcement to a total empty stadium and Casement falls well short of that atm. It's up to the designers to try and find space from somewhere to achieve this and it's obviously not there to find or they'd have already done it. As someone stated the obvious solution is to buy some property in the right location to achieve this but the key is keeping them away from Anderstown Road, i'm not that familiar with the area but I think that's their problem that no matter where in the stadium they egress from they're all heading to Anderstown road eventually and that backs up and filters right back into stadium which is back to square 1.

Is there a location at the back of the housing that can take patrons elsewhere other than Anderstown Road?

Surely an exit is possible here (https://goo.gl/maps/QR4m7) on to Mooreland that leads eventually to the Stockman's lane roundabout and not near Anderstown road.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 29, 2015, 12:41:47 PM
There are exits at Front (A-town road) / Mooreland park / Owenvarragh (at the bar). The issue is that they all probably lead into each other.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 29, 2015, 12:51:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 29, 2015, 12:41:47 PM
There are exits at Front (A-town road) / Mooreland park / Owenvarragh (at the bar). The issue is that they all probably lead into each other.

What's the recreation space (https://goo.gl/maps/QwV0X) between Owenvarragh and Riverdale? It would seem that this space might allow a gathering in an emergency and exit via Riverdale to Finaghy Road without going to Andersonstown , if one house was removed from Owenvarragh so that you could get to it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2015, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2015, 08:20:40 PM
I just hope Paul Scott's expertise in stadium safety stretches beyond looking at aerial photographs of English football grounds.

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/82923000/jpg/_82923571_casement2scott.jpg)

Look its Paul Scott looking at an aerial photograph lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2015, 10:41:27 PM
Jeez man are you just permanently angry, take a joke for FFS.
They should build the stadium here
(http://www.4ni.co.uk/newsimages/Giants-Park-Belfast-web(2).jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 29, 2015, 11:05:48 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2015, 10:57:07 PM
I'm not angry at all. I appreciated the joke ok and was merely playing along.

Sorry mate got the wrong end of the stick never mind
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on May 29, 2015, 11:46:15 PM
Twould be tough going to build a stadium as unsafe as the one in Cork.

I really do think it's a credit to GAA crowds that there wasn't a major safety issue in those tunnels; was down there at a Munster final once and it was something close to being packed into a dungeon being in those tunnels.

I did hear reports of people who went to the Bruce concerts last year and it sounded like a minor miracle that there wasnt deaths/injuries at them.

Safety concerns at a stadium aren't something I would even remotely take lightly - I remember watching Hillsborough unfold on the telly as a young lad and it was something I'll remember to my dying day - I really don't want to see anything anyway close to that happen at any game in Ireland ever.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 30, 2015, 09:16:05 AM
It really is unbelievable that planning permission was actually granted for this and if it wasn't for the residents' opposition...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 30, 2015, 11:21:43 AM
The stadium is there already, they were only renovating it, FFS.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on May 30, 2015, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 30, 2015, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 30, 2015, 09:16:05 AM
It really is unbelievable that planning permission was actually granted for this and if it wasn't for the residents' opposition...
True. Even worse, there are still people who wish the GAA had have got building the stadium they proposed and curse the residents for objecting to it. Headers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2015, 10:28:45 PM
It is just as well this will never be built as everyone is proposing to abolish the provincial championships.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on June 03, 2015, 04:58:22 PM
A floor capacity of 30k has been set for any viable development of Casement

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53 (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53)

Carál Ní Chuilín 1st June 2015:

"I anticipate the Ulster Council bringing forward a planning application in the autumn. They will use the summer to consult. They will consult widely and ensure that the comments that were made by Justice Horner in December of last year are fed into that consultation.

I agree that there needs to be a capacity of at least 30,000, not only to meet the conditions and criteria of the business case but to attract other events that were laid out in the business case and as part of the consultation.

It would be an absolute tragedy if people decided to set their face against something, but they need to have an opportunity to talk about the difficulties that they have around planning. I hope that the 12-week consultation process will be an opportunity for people to do that."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on June 04, 2015, 03:12:24 PM
An assembly committee has been told the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) was warned of safety risks in the Casement Park project over a series of months and years.

The DCAL committee is holding another hearing as part of its inquiry into the GAA stadium project.


On Thursday, a Sport NI official said the department was told of concerns.


'Panic and crushing'

Among those giving evidence on Wednesday were Sport NI's Andrew Sloan and Nick Harkness.

Mr Harkness said communication between Sport NI and DCAL since March 2013 warned of a "potential for risk".

He said the documents illustrated that the "risk of potential panic or crushing and the need for the provision of additional emergency exiting" were "all communicated over a series of months and years".

He said this included the deputy and permanent secretary of the department being told.

Mr Harkness said concerns about emergency exiting were brought to the attention of officials.

"I cannot think of words that would express more seriously a concern around emergency exiting other than the words panic and crushing," he said.

Mr Harkness said at a meeting on 13 February 2014 "there was confirmation and acceptance from DCAL officials that there was an issue around emergency exiting".

"It was reassuring that the advice we had given was in fact understood," he said.

He later said that recommendations by the Safety Technical Group "in terms of measures to provide sufficient emergency exiting" were not reflected in the stadium design at the pre-planning stage.

He said this was in contrast to Windsor Park football stadium in Belfast.


[Here] (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-33004159#?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 04, 2015, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: snatter on June 03, 2015, 04:58:22 PM
A floor capacity of 30k has been set for any viable development of Casement

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53 (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53)

Carál Ní Chuilín 1st June 2015:

"I anticipate the Ulster Council bringing forward a planning application in the autumn. They will use the summer to consult. They will consult widely and ensure that the comments that were made by Justice Horner in December of last year are fed into that consultation.

I agree that there needs to be a capacity of at least 30,000, not only to meet the conditions and criteria of the business case but to attract other events that were laid out in the business case and as part of the consultation.

It would be an absolute tragedy if people decided to set their face against something, but they need to have an opportunity to talk about the difficulties that they have around planning. I hope that the 12-week consultation process will be an opportunity for people to do that."
So at best, it's likely to be the second biggest ground in Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2015, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 04, 2015, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: snatter on June 03, 2015, 04:58:22 PM
A floor capacity of 30k has been set for any viable development of Casement

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53 (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53)

Carál Ní Chuilín 1st June 2015:

"I anticipate the Ulster Council bringing forward a planning application in the autumn. They will use the summer to consult. They will consult widely and ensure that the comments that were made by Justice Horner in December of last year are fed into that consultation.

I agree that there needs to be a capacity of at least 30,000, not only to meet the conditions and criteria of the business case but to attract other events that were laid out in the business case and as part of the consultation.

It would be an absolute tragedy if people decided to set their face against something, but they need to have an opportunity to talk about the difficulties that they have around planning. I hope that the 12-week consultation process will be an opportunity for people to do that."
So at best, it's likely to be the second biggest ground in Ulster.

They should build a large prefab stand and then dismantle it when the money is paid out and bring it to Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2015, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 04, 2015, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 04, 2015, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: snatter on June 03, 2015, 04:58:22 PM
A floor capacity of 30k has been set for any viable development of Casement

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53 (http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2015-06-01.4.53)

Carál Ní Chuilín 1st June 2015:

"I anticipate the Ulster Council bringing forward a planning application in the autumn. They will use the summer to consult. They will consult widely and ensure that the comments that were made by Justice Horner in December of last year are fed into that consultation.

I agree that there needs to be a capacity of at least 30,000, not only to meet the conditions and criteria of the business case but to attract other events that were laid out in the business case and as part of the consultation.

It would be an absolute tragedy if people decided to set their face against something, but they need to have an opportunity to talk about the difficulties that they have around planning. I hope that the 12-week consultation process will be an opportunity for people to do that."
So at best, it's likely to be the second biggest ground in Ulster.

They should build a large prefab stand and then dismantle it when the money is paid out and bring it to Clones.
The Armaghniac list of "They should....." regarding the Casement Park site is endless.

If yous would just build the thing I'd stop.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2015, 09:35:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 04, 2015, 09:08:07 PM


If yous would just build the thing I'd stop.
I'm not building it!

I think that is obvious at this stage.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
See the executive lost £53 million for the police training college in Cookstown over lengthy delays.

I wonder could same happen Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on June 05, 2015, 07:11:55 AM
Time to horse on...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on June 05, 2015, 07:55:19 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 05, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
See the executive lost £53 million for the police training college in Cookstown over lengthy delays.

I wonder could same happen Casement.

Stick the new pitch in Cookstown shur.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on June 24, 2015, 11:09:21 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=4474 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=4474)

The Sports Minister Carál Ní Chuilín will be available on Thursday 25th June at 6.30pm in the Belfast City Hall, to give a briefing on the latest regarding the redevelopment of Casement Park. The Minister will also cover recent developments around the proposed safety of the stadium.
The redevelopment of Casement Park will not only be a great boost to local Gaels and Antrim GAA but will also act as a catalyst for local employment opportunities and businesses.
Casement Park is Antrim's County ground and it's important that all of our clubs are present to hear what our Public representatives have to say. Please ensure that your club is represented... could I ask that those attending wear their club colours (polo shirt / jacket)


I think Noam Chompsky calls it engineering consent.  :-\

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2015, 11:51:58 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on June 24, 2015, 11:09:21 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=4474 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=4474)

The Sports Minister Carál Ní Chuilín will be available on Thursday 25th June at 6.30pm in the Belfast City Hall, to give a briefing on the latest regarding the redevelopment of Casement Park. The Minister will also cover recent developments around the proposed safety of the stadium.
The redevelopment of Casement Park will not only be a great boost to local Gaels and Antrim GAA but will also act as a catalyst for local employment opportunities and businesses.
Casement Park is Antrim's County ground and it's important that all of our clubs are present to hear what our Public representatives have to say. Please ensure that your club is represented... could I ask that those attending wear their club colours (polo shirt / jacket)


I think Noam Chompsky calls it engineering consent.  :-\

Lets hope they have matching polo shirts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FarneyMan on June 25, 2015, 10:13:19 AM
Plans in place for the redevelopment of St.Tiernachs Park
Tuesday, June 23rd, 2015 at 5:35 pm.


Plans are in place for the redevelopment of St. Tiernachs Park in Clones.

It follows a meeting between the Monaghan County Board, St.Tiernachs Park Development committee and members of the Ballybay/Clones Municipal District.

Fine Gael Councillor Hugh McElvaney told Northern Sound News that planning permission for the development and the appointment of an architect where discussed at the meeting.

Councillor McElvaney says no funding is available yet but states it's very important that St.Tiernachs Park is redeveloped.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on July 06, 2015, 10:54:37 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-33417306
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on July 06, 2015, 11:06:25 PM
Whats going on here? That report is too vague.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on July 06, 2015, 11:09:00 PM
Feck sake windsor park will have been started, fallen down and rebuilt by the time a sod gets turned on casement.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 12:35:16 AM
This is what politics is all about in the north.
Make sure the Catholics get as little as possible. Always has been and looks like it will never change.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on July 07, 2015, 12:53:54 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 12:35:16 AM

This is what politics is all about in the north.
Make sure the Catholics get as little as possible. Always has been and looks like it will never change.


The first admission/claim of

A Sectarian Stadium for a Sectarian People (what a circle to turn in such a time scale)



Is there some story going about now that

Crowd Safety is Anti-Catholic/Crowd Safety is Anti-Nationalist/Crowd Safety is Anti-Irish

- insert your own?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on July 07, 2015, 07:45:32 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 12:35:16 AM
This is what politics is all about in the north.
Make sure the Catholics get as little as possible. Always has been and looks like it will never change.

I suppose it was only a matter of time before this sort of paranoid claptrap got trotted out.

Peace process my backside.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on July 07, 2015, 10:35:57 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 06, 2015, 11:06:25 PM
Whats going on here? That report is too vague.

I'm still lost. Can someone speak clearly about what is going on between the lines?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
Them'uns  don't want us to have a state of the art stadium in which to play our beautiful sport so they are making it as difficult as possible by throwing every hurdle in its way. One name "Nelson McCausland" Don't need to say anymore.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 07, 2015, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
Them'uns  don't want us to have a state of the art stadium in which to play our beautiful sport so they are making it as difficult as possible by throwing every hurdle in its way. One name "Nelson McCausland" Don't need to say anymore.
Take the tinfoil hat off and tell us how it is Nelson's fault that Carol is useless and hoped she could ride roughshod over due process and the concerns of the residents.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 09:35:18 PM
The poor woman is only tryin to do her job.  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2015, 10:59:40 PM
Carol makes the Antrim football team look effective!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on July 08, 2015, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 07, 2015, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
Them'uns  don't want us to have a state of the art stadium in which to play our beautiful sport so they are making it as difficult as possible by throwing every hurdle in its way. One name "Nelson McCausland" Don't need to say anymore.
Take the tinfoil hat off and tell us how it is Nelson's fault that Carol is useless and hoped she could ride roughshod over due process and the concerns of the residents.
Nelsy might have had a point had he not endorsed the 40,000 seater as minister. Carol is as crap as Nelsy. The Kaffilicks have only their own to blame for the mess, Residents/Mark H/Carol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cuconnacht on July 09, 2015, 02:10:45 PM
jaysus lads two thousand posts and still not a sod turned in anger!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on July 09, 2015, 05:12:39 PM
Experts 'abused' over Casement Park

Safety experts were ridiculed and abused when they refused to sign off proposals for a new stadium at Casement Park, a Stormont committee has heard.

Laura Strong, from the Safety Technical Group, said she was left "shaken" after a meeting with the GAA, their English-based design team and government officials in June 2014.

She said: "What we were subjected to was ridicule, abuse, (we) felt patronised and considered that efforts were being made to humiliate us."

Ms Strong was appearing before Stormont's Culture Arts and Leisure s crutiny committee alongside senior safety officer Paul Scott, who previously told MLAs he felt bullied into dropping objections to the new ground.

The 2014 meeting was convened at a south Belfast hotel to discuss emergency evacuation arrangements at the site.

Ms Strong said she was "taken aback" by the tone of the discussion.

"This meeting took on a whole other context," she added. " Health and safety people are not very popular. But, on this occasion I felt that we were being made to feel belittled.

"I certainly, in my career had not experienced a meeting like that in the past.

"This was over and above anything that we should have had to deal with in our role. People were openly laughing at us."

Later, two GAA officials apologised for the behaviour directed towards the safety officers, it was claimed.

MLAs were told the plans did not meet health and safety requirements to evacuate the Andersonstown Road stadium within eight minutes.

Mr Scott said global research has established that crowds start to panic after eight minutes.

He said: "The big fear is panic and crushing. People, after eight minutes, tend to worry and panic therefore there should be appropriate exits for them to leave to a place of relative safety."

Casement Park exits could not cope if there was a capacity crowd, the committee was told.

There could also be further difficulties because the site, which is surrounded by houses, is serviced by only one main arterial route.

Here (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/experts-abused-over-casement-park-31364456.html%5B/url)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 09, 2015, 06:48:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 09, 2015, 05:43:16 PM
The community based organisation who should be given the benefit of the doubt and trusted by the local community. Aye, fcukin dead on.
Regardless of the locals position can you not see this for what many see it as. Very unlikely bedfellows you lot  would make. My enemies enemy is my friend...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2015, 07:32:15 PM
Public authorities in this case are very good at identifying objections, but not so good at identifying solutions for what is a public amenity paid out of the public purse. There is a definite touch of the jobsworth, if not political obstruction .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 09, 2015, 10:11:34 PM
The other two grounds have been built with minimum fuss and rightfully so.  The benefits are deemed to outweigh the negatives.   Poor old GAA is right.  They were the first to put their hands up for the maze to share and include facilities, but the age old murky yesterfolk of  NI are raising their game.  Best stadium designer in the world, GAA, PSNI are all wrong.  No No No is alive and well. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 09, 2015, 11:00:43 PM
Thats funny but not applicable in this case. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on July 09, 2015, 11:22:13 PM
Representatives from the police and ambulance service also highlighted concerns about emergency evacuation arrangements.

Here (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/experts-abused-over-casement-park-31364456.html%5Burl=http://Here)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 09, 2015, 11:51:51 PM
Yes they probably should have been paid off by a fixer at the start...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 10, 2015, 12:14:49 AM
If the price is right. I'll bet...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: parttimeexile on July 10, 2015, 07:21:47 AM
The whole project stinks. There is no appetite from anyone except the GAA to have the stadium so why are they pushing it so much. I do not believe there are many fans who want casemount to be rebuilt either. I hope the whole things gets canned!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 10, 2015, 07:41:52 AM
Quote from: parttimeexile on July 10, 2015, 07:21:47 AM
The whole project stinks. There is no appetite from anyone except the GAA to have the stadium so why are they pushing it so much. I do not believe there are many fans who want casemount to be rebuilt either. I hope the whole things gets canned!!
And the survey says....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on July 10, 2015, 12:46:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 09, 2015, 11:40:26 PM
The residents are anti-GAA.
The STG are anti-GAA.
The enquiry team are anti-GAA.

All along, anybody or group who have raised concerns about the GAA's proposed plan for the redevelopment of Casement Park has simply been dismissed as anti-GAA. Forget the legitimacy of their concern, they're anti-GAA. A tad pathetic really.

But like, if your anti -SF you are a dissident.


Anyways, this is not anti -GAA. GAA has become the bully boys here and they have been caught out. End of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on July 10, 2015, 12:59:57 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
Them'uns  don't want us to have a state of the art stadium in which to play our beautiful sport so they are making it as difficult as possible by throwing every hurdle in its way. One name "Nelson McCausland" Don't need to say anymore.

That's nonsense
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on July 10, 2015, 01:30:30 PM
Quote from: Clinker on July 09, 2015, 11:22:13 PM
Representatives from the police and ambulance service also highlighted concerns about emergency evacuation arrangements.

Here (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/experts-abused-over-casement-park-31364456.html%5Burl=http://Here)

It will be interesting to see how far Feeney takes his threat to go to his Solicitors.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 10, 2015, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 09, 2015, 10:11:34 PM
The other two grounds have been built with minimum fuss and rightfully so.  The benefits are deemed to outweigh the negatives.   Poor old GAA is right.  They were the first to put their hands up for the maze to share and include facilities, but the age old murky yesterfolk of  NI are raising their game.  Best stadium designer in the world, GAA, PSNI are all wrong.  No No No is alive and well.
Wise up. If you can't see the obvious problems with the current proposals it can only be because you don't want to.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 10, 2015, 08:31:48 PM
The Stormont government in the 1950s put up less obstruction to the original building of Casement than the present regime and the resident were probably pro GAA then when they could remember Antrim actually winnng Ulster finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on July 11, 2015, 10:02:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 09, 2015, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 08, 2015, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 07, 2015, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 07, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
Them'uns  don't want us to have a state of the art stadium in which to play our beautiful sport so they are making it as difficult as possible by throwing every hurdle in its way. One name "Nelson McCausland" Don't need to say anymore.
Take the tinfoil hat off and tell us how it is Nelson's fault that Carol is useless and hoped she could ride roughshod over due process and the concerns of the residents.
Nelsy might have had a point had he not endorsed the 40,000 seater as minister. Carol is as crap as Nelsy. The Kaffilicks have only their own to blame for the mess, Residents/Mark H/Carol.
No blame on the GAA, I see.....
Yeah add them in as well, Antrim Co Board also.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 11, 2015, 11:27:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 10, 2015, 08:31:48 PM
The Stormont government in the 1950s put up less obstruction to the original building of Casement than the present regime and the resident were probably pro GAA then when they could remember Antrim actually winnng Ulster finals.
Only it's not the 'Stormont Government' obstructing the current development. On the contrary.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on July 11, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
Hardstation isn't a resident but he has a vested interest as a member of the social club. The same social club who get cheap drink due to all antrim clubs paying their annual fees to subsidise the price of a pint in it.

If anyone didn't see the letter penned to social club memerbs, all of them, go to antrim gaa website and have a look at how much money is being spent to keep them happy so to speak, absolute disgrace if u ask me. In for a penny and all that!

there are a lot of people in antrim and ulster who want this project to happen gaa and otherwise.

The minority that are opposed to it in one way or another are the residents and the social club membership or should I say the top 4 men in the social club who make the decisions. As I know there are 250 members of the social club but only 4 or 5 know everything that is going on.

The sooner new plans are submitted and the consultation process gets under way the better.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on July 11, 2015, 09:30:24 PM
Some of ur posts don't come across as if u want to c project moved forward.
Going by letter to sc members the ball is in their court to decide where they want sc to be situated in new project, so get together and make the decision. If it's only 4 ppl then shouldn't be hard to sort out.

I must check last years convention figures from balance sheet to see where it says income from sc!

I'm fed up with all the point scoring and squabbling, mud slinging etc
Find a common ground or come to an agreement & Just build the feckin thing and get our games back being played where they belong!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 12, 2015, 06:41:01 PM
I think you are being very lazy with the truth there hardstation.  If you and the social club support casement why is a five man committee headed by yer man o brien from castleknock, and also the Croke park handball club, who are from Dublin and  have no business in this surely except for adding to the problem still in the middle of this.  Looking in  from the outside it is it off the mark to say you and your pub are refusing to engage with the gaa and make the move into temporary premises?  Less of your bullshit and spin. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on July 12, 2015, 07:06:22 PM
Ok.  It's time to ask a very straight question.

How do Antrim Gaa benefit from a social club in or near or around Casement Park.  How much of the profits go towards  Antrim Gaa. Simple question. Simple answers please.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 14, 2015, 05:26:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 14, 2015, 05:14:11 PM
I thought I answered that before. Since the day Casement Social Club opened its doors to the day the GAA closed them, 100% of the profits went to Antrim GAA. On top of this, there were many sweeteners along the way. Such as getting £250,000 from Diageo for tying the social club to their products a few years back.
As far as I'm aware, when the new club is up and running, Antrim GAA will continue to receive 100% of the profits although I'd imagine that will negotiated some time in the future.

I suppose if I was an accountant I would ask about the extent of the profit margin, as a social club could be organised to largely break even with a very modest surplus for distribution.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on July 14, 2015, 06:19:15 PM
Good to know that HS. There are plenty of people under the impression that the social club status is that of a working mens social club and that it is a separate entity from Antrim Gaa. As Culchie says it should show up on the treasurers annual report. Will look out for it. Any idea HS what kind of revenue it produced for us in recent years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 14, 2015, 08:49:31 PM
Yeah i agree if it was near the truth it certainly would be something worth working towards and congratulations on the contributions to date.  Just one wee question but i had heard and you can correct me hardstation if I'm miss hearing things. Can ye tell me what role yer man o brien of Castle knock the head of the croke park resistance stuff in dublin has and is he really controlling the decision making of this antrim based social club committee. There is a lot of talk that he has no notion of moving them into the temporary social club and that's where the problem may lie and maybe others aren't telling you everything. Would you agree that there might be a struggle to achieve profit in the future for the good of  antrim gaa regardless of your great stories of past fundraising endeavours with this character o brien involved. Why is he involved?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on July 14, 2015, 10:21:33 PM
Thanks for that HS. Things a good bit clearer now and relief that Antrim Gaa still main beneficiary.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 17, 2015, 09:42:49 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=CApN0sr9pEE
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 17, 2015, 09:48:12 PM
Dreadful. Question is, why are we not playing games there right up until they're about to start building?

"Here, lads, I hear we're getting £70 million to redevelop this place. Sure we'll just close it up tonight then, aye?"

"Aye but make sure you strip the place for every bit of scrap you can get."
Idiots.

This is indeed a valid question, every other GAA development had games right up to the end. Even if some small dismantling works took place the ground could have been retained for Antrim games etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on July 17, 2015, 10:32:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 17, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 17, 2015, 09:48:12 PM
Dreadful. Question is, why are we not playing games there right up until they're about to start building?

"Here, lads, I hear we're getting £70 million to redevelop this place. Sure we'll just close it up tonight then, aye?"

"Aye but make sure you strip the place for every bit of scrap you can get."
Idiots.




This is indeed a valid question, every other GAA development had games right up to the end. Even if some small dismantling works took place the ground could have been retained for Antrim games etc.


Was this not because the tender had been awarded and the contractor had started to work on demolitions etc and then the notice to stop came ?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 08:44:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 17, 2015, 10:34:41 PM
As far as I can see, the only work carried out was Antrim GAA scrapping every bit of wood and metal they could. I don't think Heron Buckingham have lifted a finger yet.

While I totally appreciate residents concerns and the position of social club members, I have two questions for you, hard station.
1. For a man consumed with the safety risks in a brand new casement, and having aggressively articulated your perception that the ulster council and Antrim GAA are grossly incompetent , how on earth can u justify suggesting that the GAA continue to host games in an already rundown casement, which would also be a building site???
2. Surely given your concerns re aesthetics and the environment in a brand new casement, how can u criticise the GAA for recycling the old stadium???

With due respect HArdstation surely it's time for you to reflect on your overtly partisan approach, as you are rapidly losing credibility and thereby jeopardising the credibility of the very legitimate concerns re safety, and impact on residents
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Over the Bar on July 18, 2015, 09:40:49 AM
In the opinion of Many players,  Casement was the best playing surface in Ulster so it's a real shame to see it in its present state.    I can't understand why Antrim GAA didn't sell off the turf to fans  as they could have made a fortune on that alone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 18, 2015, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 08:44:01 AM
While I totally appreciate residents concerns and the position of social club members, I have two questions for you, hard station.
1. For a man consumed with the safety risks in a brand new casement, and having aggressively articulated your perception that the ulster council and Antrim GAA are grossly incompetent , how on earth can u justify suggesting that the GAA continue to host games in an already rundown casement, which would also be a building site???

Croke Park was used throughout its reconstuction.

Quote from: 6th sam2. Surely given your concerns re aesthetics and the environment in a brand new casement, how can u criticise the GAA for recycling the old stadium???

In fairness to Hardstation, I doubt if he  is criticising recycling, only the recycling of the old stadium before they were ready to build the new one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on July 18, 2015, 10:11:15 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 08:44:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 17, 2015, 10:34:41 PM
As far as I can see, the only work carried out was Antrim GAA scrapping every bit of wood and metal they could. I don't think Heron Buckingham have lifted a finger yet.

While I totally appreciate residents concerns and the position of social club members, I have two questions for you, hard station.
1. For a man consumed with the safety risks in a brand new casement, and having aggressively articulated your perception that the ulster council and Antrim GAA are grossly incompetent , how on earth can u justify suggesting that the GAA continue to host games in an already rundown casement, which would also be a building site???
2. Surely given your concerns re aesthetics and the environment in a brand new casement, how can u criticise the GAA for recycling the old stadium???

With due respect HArdstation surely it's time for you to reflect on your overtly partisan approach, as you are rapidly losing credibility and thereby jeopardising the credibility of the very legitimate concerns re safety, and impact on residents

Hmmm, that's a bit of a mad post there Ted. No valid points atall.

Given recent attendances in Casement, it was completely feasible to play games there until physically impossible. Even at least until construction had started. Maybe there was some kind of legal bind that no games were allowed for insurance reasons but surely that could have been negotiated. What a waste of a good surface and a good example of short-sightedness.

Recycling? Ahem.

As for HS and his approach, I'd say it's quite the opposite. I had doubts about many issues and suspicions surrounding the residents and the social club but he has always knowledgeably and articulately dealt with them, alongside a few expletives and Hardstationisms.

If you look though this thread, 92.7% of posts are either ill-informed or inaccurate speculation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 01:06:31 PM
A direct comparison to Croke park is not valid on many levels eg 20 years ago, different jurisdiction, stadium refurbishment v replacement . I understood that One of the reasons for upgrading casement was around safety concerns. Any attempt to continue games in casement therefore would have been high risk. Failure to accept the validity of that fact is bizarre. Again making the old stadium available for  recycling has benefitted many clubs as well as presumably generating finance.
I don't know anyone in Antrim GAA , and my only agenda is that we have an appropriate provincial stadium, within the budget provided. I have a limited knowledge of the specifics of the project, but I accept that the aesthetic, environmental , safety and social issues involved have all to be respected. However , the aggressive and personalised approach of some posters, may only serve to undermine genuine arguments, and to be fair , betray a sense that only a much smaller stadium (ie comparable to other county grounds) will be tolerated. This does not however meet the requirements of the provincial stadium for which the GAA are due to receive the stormont funding. I think that many are missing this crucial point , ie either an appropriately sized and safe provincial stadium can be provided on the Casement site, or another site will have to be sought. In the event of a move away from casement ( which would have a detrimental effect on Belfast GAA) , the future of the derilect casement is another debate altogether , but I again reiterate that a more compact eg 20,000 capacity stadium does not meet the provincial stadium requirement and therefore will not receive GAA backing or stormont funding.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2015, 01:29:18 PM
They stopped playing at Casement because they didn't want to pay the insurance and rates as they thought that the pitch was going to be built the following year 😁.....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 07:04:01 PM
As I have said before I don't know the specifics of the casement saga. I have no association with the Antrim county board or the Ulster council. I have absolutely no vested interest in the casement project going ahead, my motivation for having any interest in this saga, is a desire for a provincial stadium to host our games in comfort and safety for the next 50 years+. Casement seemed like the best alternative originally. Apart from the boost to Belfast , Antrim and ulster gaa , the economic boost from £70m+ initial investment, and subsequent spinoff from major games and concerts over many years, would be a long overdue stimulus to an area deprived of economic investment for far too long. Though I can understand the right of safety experts, residents and social club members to express their concerns, it needs to be established very quickly if Casement is feasible, if not other avenues should be pursued. My perception, as an outsider, is that though there are genuine concerns From many, there is also an antagonism from some which makes me think that no matter what steps are taken to address those genuine concerns, there will always be something else flagged up. Regrettably , I feel a provincial stadium in casement is turning out to be unworkable
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 18, 2015, 08:08:40 PM
As I recall there was some issue in Casement which led to part of the stand being closed for a game a couple of years ago. But whatever about this Casement could have been opened for Antrim games, which are not overcrowded.

Still despite the delay, Casement will likely be built long before any county in Ulster gets a 6th Sam.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 09:26:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 18, 2015, 07:56:09 PM
Fair enough.

I should be talking to a few fellas later who I think will know the craic about Casement being deemed an unsafe stadium and therefore closed down and ripped apart. I'm shocked I've never heard anyone mention it before.

Common sense would indicate that as with all decaying stadia , future safety concerns are among the reasons for refurbishment. I like armaghniac can recall an issue with the stand a number of years ago. The fact that an offthecuff remark made by myself, a poster with no connection with any of the parties, and no insider knowledge of the casement project has HS running about on a Saturday night looking for evidence of an historical safety report on the old Casement , displays either an unhealthy paranoia or healthy sense of humour! As a Gael wanting to see a provincial stadium of which we can all be proud, and having a desire to see investment in West Belfast, I am trying to give an objective opinion. The usual emotive and reactionary response and inability to reflect , reinforces my concern that such intransigence may ultimately make Casement as a provincial stadium unachievable. As I have said before many of the concerns are valid, so if they can't be resolved satisfactorily then perhaps , sadly, it is time to move on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 18, 2015, 11:50:22 PM
You have filled some pages with your posts on the topic 6th Sam. Impressive commitment for someone with no vested interest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: macdanger2 on July 19, 2015, 01:15:15 AM
Fair play 6th sam, nice to hear from a completely unbiased source
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 08:32:18 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 19, 2015, 01:15:15 AM
Fair play 6th sam, nice to hear from a completely unbiased source

Confirmation of my fears.
Any argument which encourages either safe progression of the Casement project , or building elsewhere is treated with suspicion/paranoia. My "commitment" is purely a desire for our games to be hosted in a state of the art stadium of which we can be proud, and hopefully bring in income and allow us to promote our games. Good luck to the Ifa and ulster rugby who have already upgraded, while we are still no further on. As I have said many times, I respect and indeed admire those who have fought their corner regarding their concerns re safety, residential and social concerns, all I am saying is that there needs to be a degree of reflection and honesty. Is casement as a provincial stadium workable. If it is, address concerns in a mature , workmanlike but time defined manner. If a combination of poor relationships, insurmountable construction/safety challenges, and an anti-GAA  attitude make it unworkable then let the parties move on quickly to look at other alternatives. Again, I reiterate that I have no insider knowledge, no axe to grind, and no meaningful connection with any of the parties involved. Is it impossible to believe that there are Gaels out there , who just want a long overdue provincial stadium built, to engender a sense of pride and self-confidence which we see with Croke park and more recently and locally Kingspan Ravenhill. Hopefully those negotiating on the ground are more objective than some on this board.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 19, 2015, 08:40:05 AM
Very well put.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 11:14:29 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 18, 2015, 01:06:31 PM
I understood that One of the reasons for upgrading casement was around safety concerns.

Just to clarify presumably you are referring to my stating what my understanding was from reading newspaper reports and talking to fellow gaels, and personal experience of attending casement,  as per above , makes me a liar. On the one hand , posters insinuate that I have insider knowledge/vested interest, on the other hand I am being personally insulted for having an opinion not backed up by in depth knowledge of the situation. I am an ulster Gael ambitious for the future, merely stating an opinion. I apologise if I have hit a raw nerve. Some posters it appears, wanted a tidy 20-25k capacity upgrade to casement, which would probably have got through planning easier. However 70m+ stormont & GAA funding is not available for upgrading one county's intercounty venue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on July 19, 2015, 12:37:04 PM

In fairness HS played a blinder... He gave you enough rope to hang yourself on your original bluff when he knew all along you were spoofing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on July 19, 2015, 01:49:52 PM
How many would describe themselves a provincial Gael anyway? That sounded so weird to me.

As a passionate hurling man, the thought of enduring county finals in an echoy, empty state of the art all seater stadium sends shivers through me.

We've been sold a pup all for the greater good of Ulster Gaels
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 19, 2015, 01:57:54 PM
Glad to see Casement boarded up. dour, unfriendly **** of a place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on July 19, 2015, 02:23:06 PM
Great to get out of Trillick all the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 19, 2015, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 19, 2015, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 19, 2015, 01:57:54 PM
Glad to see Casement boarded up. dour, unfriendly **** of a place.
Haha. Who made you go?
No-one. Went of my own free will. Won't be back anytime soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 19, 2015, 03:17:53 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 19, 2015, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 19, 2015, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 19, 2015, 01:57:54 PM
Glad to see Casement boarded up. dour, unfriendly **** of a place.
Haha. Who made you go?
No-one. Went of my own free will. Won't be back anytime soon.
None of us will.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 19, 2015, 12:37:04 PM

In fairness HS played a blinder... He gave you enough rope to hang yourself on your original bluff when he knew all along you were spoofing.

Yes, fair play, HArdstation caught me out for having an opinion!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 19, 2015, 01:49:52 PM
How many would describe themselves a provincial Gael anyway? That sounded so weird to me.

As a passionate hurling man, the thought of enduring county finals in an echoy, empty state of the art all seater stadium sends shivers through me.

We've been sold a pup all for the greater good of Ulster Gaels

I think we'll just have to agree to differ.
What is "weird" about having provincial affiliation? ...ask any Munster man their opinion on the munster final, ask any Connacht man about their Provincial loyalty( to hell or to connacht). I have cheered on Tyrone, Donegal, Armagh, Derry and , as a passionate hurling man, even Antrim in All-Ireland senior finals. In fact via the railway cup the GAA promotes provincial loyalty. I am a Gael , to me that means a club Gael , a Down Gael, an Ulster Gael ...the GAA thrives on that sense of place.
While we argue over trivialities , the tumbleweed pervades in the monstrosity that is now Casement. All I am saying, is that regardless of the difficulties up until now, the GAA has decide on the best way forward to secure and utilise the £70m.
Ps . sadly most hurling matches involving Ulster teams have been played in empty stadia for years, and that's a much bigger challenge for ulster Gaels
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 07:44:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 19, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 19, 2015, 12:37:04 PM

In fairness HS played a blinder... He gave you enough rope to hang yourself on your original bluff when he knew all along you were spoofing.

Yes, fair play, HArdstation caught me out for having an opinion!!!
Oh, it is opinion now. I thought it was fact......

You said:
Any attempt to continue games in casement therefore would have been high risk. Failure to accept the validity of that FACT is bizarre.
I'll take the fact that you're forensically picking through my posts as a compliment. It certainly beats being called " mad,weird,spoofing,bluffing,bullshitting, liar" by yourself and other posters.lol!
At the risk of getting bogged down in semantics , can I clarify: " I (and I imagine many others) UNDERSTOOD that ONE of the reasons for upgrading casement was AROUND SAFETY concerns. Any attempt to continue games in CAsement THEREFORE would have been high risk. Failure to accept the validity of that fact (ie if that understanding was correct, safety concerns mean risk) is bizarre. At no stage did I indicate that I was speaking from a position of authority , insider knowledge or influence, therefore I can not understand the reaction. It appears there have been problems in the approach of the GAA, SportNI, DCAL as evidenced by the judicial review and subsequent fallout. Notwithstanding that , overt antagonism towards Gaels who want to see the most efficient and productive use of available funding is disappointing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2015, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

That's great but your opinion on the matter means feck all really in the grand scheme of things the stadium will be built and eventually Ulster finals will be played at it.... its based on Croker so you're opinion of Croke is the same as Casements new design!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 19, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Did you attend any of the Ulster football finals in Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 09:28:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 19, 2015, 08:57:20 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 07:44:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 19, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 19, 2015, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 19, 2015, 12:37:04 PM

In fairness HS played a blinder... He gave you enough rope to hang yourself on your original bluff when he knew all along you were spoofing.

Yes, fair play, HArdstation caught me out for having an opinion!!!
Oh, it is opinion now. I thought it was fact......

You said:
Any attempt to continue games in casement therefore would have been high risk. Failure to accept the validity of that FACT is bizarre.
I'll take the fact that you're forensically picking through my posts as a compliment. It certainly beats being called " mad,weird,spoofing,bluffing,bullshitting, liar" by yourself and other posters.lol!
At the risk of getting bogged down in semantics , can I clarify: " I (and I imagine many others) UNDERSTOOD that ONE of the reasons for upgrading casement was AROUND SAFETY concerns. Any attempt to continue games in CAsement THEREFORE would have been high risk. Failure to accept the validity of that fact (ie if that understanding was correct, safety concerns mean risk) is bizarre. At no stage did I indicate that I was speaking from a position of authority , insider knowledge or influence, therefore I can not understand the reaction. It appears there have been problems in the approach of the GAA, SportNI, DCAL as evidenced by the judicial review and subsequent fallout. Notwithstanding that , overt antagonism towards Gaels who want to see the most efficient and productive use of available funding is disappointing.
So, it's now what "you understood".......

This is great. Do yourself a favour FFS.
Check the original post, I always "understood."
This is obviously very emotive for you , and tbf you live close to casement , so I respect your opinion , especially given your vested interest , and your superior knowledge of the specifics. All I asked was a similar respect and a degree of reflection, Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen. I look forward to the GAA drawing down and utilising their portion of the stormont pot, to use in a way that advantages ulster Gaels most efficiently , whether that is casement or not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 10:24:31 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 19, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Did you attend any of the Ulster football finals in Casement?
I never knew you had to be 55 or over to express an opinion on this.

The area surrounding Casement has no atmosphere and nothing to recommend it for a big match.

Same as Salthill can't touch Tuam for atmosphere. At least it has the sea, though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on July 20, 2015, 07:22:08 PM
Right enough writing dear john letters and get on with talking to each other and get it built!

Page 12 of the irish news for those who haven't seen it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on July 20, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
So the csc have decided which location they prefer to have the new csc to be in the new casement park??

if there was that much goodwill make a joint statement as the working group promoting the new casement together.

If the working group can do what they need to do in the meantime at least it is done.

Better looking at it as for it!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 22, 2015, 04:53:01 PM
Its important to look at everyones views whether for or against this stadium whilst we have this debate.
This man is from Dublin has a lot to say about the GAA, Croke Park and Casement.  Interesting perspective and theres other articles as well from the action group. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl5EIKgJLNU&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DermyTDredi on July 23, 2015, 06:04:36 PM
Antrim deserves better - and to be better represented on their county board. For what its worth, I think that the local residents were treated poorly over the whole thing - there is such a lack of humility shown from the Ulster Council execs, and it is their arrogance which has caused this mess...riding over the top of experts in health and safety and the local community.

Antrim football needs better investment at underage and schools level as much as it needs casement...Clones, pair Esler, Athletic Grounds, Brefini, Brewster - are all class stadia....and all underused....even celtic park on a bright day...healy is another story all together....
A modest casement park and the rotation of the ulsterfinal between Clones and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

When you have people like feeny running around suffering from small man syndrome, bullying and telling lies, its hardly surprising that the locals and other stakeholders will rare up
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 23, 2015, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
It's not the stadium that's soulless in relation to Casement, it's the location.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 10:03:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 23, 2015, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
It's not the stadium that's soulless in relation to Casement, it's the location.

You e been to Croke park before? You have walked around it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on July 23, 2015, 11:26:12 PM
What's the craic with the St Malachys Twitter account Hardstation?

You would think it was a Twitter account for St Malachys club but it continually gets retweeted by the Antrim Twitter feed as it's always telling us we have to "rebuild Casement". It nearly makes it too obvious

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 24, 2015, 12:35:33 AM
Don't know if that's the case and 5 minutes of that video above gives a fascinating insight into what could come across as a thinly veiled anti gaa  mentality in an extreme manifestation.  Not saying everyone in the anti casement plans campaign thinks like this because there are undoubtedly legitimate fears but this action group appear to have chosen  their leader so what do they want people to think after watching this.
.Fundamentally the spokesman as he is entitled to do puts across a very negative feeling about the gaa and casement appears to be just another notch on the bedpost.  I'd advise people.to watch and form their own opinion..maybe it's right that we nail our colours to the mast so fair play of that is the case as it brings his honesty to the debate about a provincial sized stadium in West Belfast. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 24, 2015, 06:57:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 10:03:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 23, 2015, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
It's not the stadium that's soulless in relation to Casement, it's the location.

You e been to Croke park before? You have walked around it?
The comparison is with Clones. I've been to big games at Casement. Little or no atmosphere around the ground. I don't see how a new stadium will change this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on July 24, 2015, 08:42:09 AM
Quote from: DermyTDredi on July 23, 2015, 06:04:36 PM
Antrim deserves better - and to be better represented on their county board. For what its worth, I think that the local residents were treated poorly over the whole thing - there is such a lack of humility shown from the Ulster Council execs, and it is their arrogance which has caused this mess...riding over the top of experts in health and safety and the local community.

Antrim football needs better investment at underage and schools level as much as it needs casement...Clones, pair Esler, Athletic Grounds, Brefini, Brewster - are all class stadia....and all underused....even celtic park on a bright day...healy is another story all together....
A modest casement park and the rotation of the ulsterfinal between Clones and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

When you have people like feeny running around suffering from small man syndrome, bullying and telling lies, its hardly surprising that the locals and other stakeholders will rare up

Agree...mostly. Certainly this has been a top down driven project, which isn't the GAA way. Or at least it wasn't until the corporatists took over.

Unless there are big rabbits pulled out of hats with A'town locals, it's going to be a reduced capacity Casement, of 25,000. Clones holds significantly more at present, but is far from all-seater. I was able to take the family to the final last weekend for €52, which was good value. That won't be the case in Casement, if they're are to exceed or come close to the revenue taken last weekend.

It's all about the money. The club/parish/county ethos is being scrapped. .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 24, 2015, 09:01:24 AM
Quote from: babarino on July 24, 2015, 08:42:09 AM
Quote from: DermyTDredi on July 23, 2015, 06:04:36 PM
Antrim deserves better - and to be better represented on their county board. For what its worth, I think that the local residents were treated poorly over the whole thing - there is such a lack of humility shown from the Ulster Council execs, and it is their arrogance which has caused this mess...riding over the top of experts in health and safety and the local community.

Antrim football needs better investment at underage and schools level as much as it needs casement...Clones, pair Esler, Athletic Grounds, Brefini, Brewster - are all class stadia....and all underused....even celtic park on a bright day...healy is another story all together....
A modest casement park and the rotation of the ulsterfinal between Clones and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

When you have people like feeny running around suffering from small man syndrome, bullying and telling lies, its hardly surprising that the locals and other stakeholders will rare up

Agree...mostly. Certainly this has been a top down driven project, which isn't the GAA way. Or at least it wasn't until the corporatists took over.

Unless there are big rabbits pulled out of hats with A'town locals, it's going to be a reduced capacity Casement, of 25,000. Clones holds significantly more at present, but is far from all-seater. I was able to take the family to the final last weekend for €52, which was good value. That won't be the case in Casement, if they're are to exceed or come close to the revenue taken last weekend.

It's all about the money. The club/parish/county ethos is being scrapped. .

Did this not happen years ago, regardless of a 'new' casement? I think any judgement should be reserved until it is built and can showcase what it can offer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 24, 2015, 09:09:56 AM
Can anyone outline the current stage we are at without trawling through previous pages.

Is it back with the design team to come up with a more 'suitable' capacity?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on July 24, 2015, 09:31:41 AM
New design been submitted, here is an artists impression with new driving force behind the project.

(http://cdn1.independent.ie/lifestyle/article29942179.ece/e1c16/ALTERNATES/h342/PRO_2014-01-25_LIF_010_30063669_I1.JPG)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on July 24, 2015, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 24, 2015, 06:57:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 10:03:57 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 23, 2015, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
It's not the stadium that's soulless in relation to Casement, it's the location.

You e been to Croke park before? You have walked around it?
The comparison is with Clones. I've been to big games at Casement. Little or no atmosphere around the ground. I don't see how a new stadium will change this.

I think u r being a tad biased towards clones, it is a cul de sac for everyone, sitting in queues after games. Casement is close to the motorway and accessible to train stations also.

U say casement and the surrounding area has no atmosphere on match day, I beg to differ, u obviously weren't present on say the day antrim beat down after not winning champ game in years or the two games against derry when Tohill saved a 45 from sheeny mcquillan! Andy town was bouncing them days and I could add more.

Seen ur man on talking about it being a big piggy bank for the gaa and it would do nothing for the local businesses that's like saying the rose of Tralee brings no trade to tralee!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on July 24, 2015, 11:56:34 PM
Clones is an awful hole of a town and no place for a large stadium. Two and a half narrow roads into it means traffic chaos. The only reason it is associated with big games atmospheres is cos it gets all the big games like Ulster finals!
I travel to Belfast regularly and the potential of big games at Casement is very exciting with the new stadium. The infrastructure is miles ahead of Clones village and will inevitably become the home of Ulster football I'd say
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 12:40:36 AM
Quote from: ck on July 24, 2015, 11:56:34 PM
Clones is an awful hole of a town and no place for a large stadium. Two and a half narrow roads into it means traffic chaos. The only reason it is associated with big games atmospheres is cos it gets all the big games like Ulster finals!
I travel to Belfast regularly and the potential of big games at Casement is very exciting with the new stadium. The infrastructure is miles ahead of Clones village and will inevitably become the home of Ulster football I'd say


Casement is far too removed from being central to get a lot of big games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 25, 2015, 08:24:21 AM
Lets put it in Athlone then..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trentoneill15 on July 25, 2015, 10:05:30 AM
I hate the site of Belfast and everything about it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 25, 2015, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: ck on July 24, 2015, 11:56:34 PM
Clones is an awful hole of a town and no place for a large stadium. Two and a half narrow roads into it means traffic chaos.
Two and a half roads? I can count 8.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on July 25, 2015, 04:55:00 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 25, 2015, 08:24:21 AM
Lets put it in Athlone then..

Jeez even people from Athlone hate Athlone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on July 25, 2015, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: ck on July 24, 2015, 11:56:34 PM
Clones is an awful hole of a town and no place for a large stadium. Two and a half narrow roads into it means traffic chaos. The only reason it is associated with big games atmospheres is cos it gets all the big games like Ulster finals!
I travel to Belfast regularly and the potential of big games at Casement is very exciting with the new stadium. The infrastructure is miles ahead of Clones village and will inevitably become the home of Ulster football I'd say

Why a swanker (with a silent 's') from Sligo is taking swipes at Clones beats me. When was the last time there was a big game in Casement with an attendance of 30,000? Casement is miles away from the train station and if you manage to get a taxi, you're go nowhere fast. Andersonstown Road is complete bedlam with a crowd of less than 20,000.

St. Tiernach's Park (owned by the Ulster Council) hasn't had a penny spent on infrastructure in decades, to facilitate the switch to Belfast. Bullying Health and Safety officers and backhanders to the residents will sort it out.  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 25, 2015, 05:38:02 PM
Clones is a cracking venue. Casement is a shithole. Why would we relocate the home of Ulster football to an area where joy-riding is the most predominant sport?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on July 25, 2015, 05:51:11 PM
Quote from: trentoneill15 on July 25, 2015, 10:05:30 AM
I hate the site of Belfast and everything about it
The most sensible post on this thread by a mile.  By everything about it I assume/hope you mean Antrim in general
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 25, 2015, 05:56:46 PM
Quote from: babarino on July 25, 2015, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: ck on July 24, 2015, 11:56:34 PM
Clones is an awful hole of a town and no place for a large stadium. Two and a half narrow roads into it means traffic chaos. The only reason it is associated with big games atmospheres is cos it gets all the big games like Ulster finals!
I travel to Belfast regularly and the potential of big games at Casement is very exciting with the new stadium. The infrastructure is miles ahead of Clones village and will inevitably become the home of Ulster football I'd say

Why a swanker (with a silent 's') from Sligo is taking swipes at Clones beats me. When was the last time there was a big game in Casement with an attendance of 30,000? Casement is miles away from the train station and if you manage to get a taxi, you're go nowhere fast. Andersonstown Road is complete bedlam with a crowd of less than 20,000.

St. Tiernach's Park (owned by the Ulster Council) hasn't had a penny spent on infrastructure in decades, to facilitate the switch to Belfast. Bullying Health and Safety officers and backhanders to the residents will sort it out.  ::)

The biggest i recall was derry down in the early 90s. 92 i think. Since then the odd antrim game has had half decent crowds. Can't recall a full house.

To be honest at this point, and i'm sure a lot of antrim people would agree, i just want us to have our county ground back. I am not convinced casement is the place for ulster finals etc. the whole thing is a debacle and has got very political - with ulster council guys as much as anyone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 25, 2015, 06:07:36 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 25, 2015, 05:38:02 PM
Clones is a cracking venue. Casement is a shithole. Why would we relocate the home of Ulster football to an area where joy-riding is the most predominant sport?

What a c*ck!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 25, 2015, 06:07:56 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 25, 2015, 05:50:25 PM
I agree. If an Ulster final is ever held at Casement, the supporters of both teams should head to Clones and watch the match in the pub.
Glad you've came to sense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 25, 2015, 06:17:37 PM
Just to clarify this isn't an irrational dislike of Belfast or casement or the people around there. It's just a poor place for the provincial ground imo. That said casement is still a better stadium than Omagh which is unparalleled in its shiteness as a gaa ground. Honestly I've never been in a duller ground with as poor a pitch. O Connor park is possibly the only ground than comes close.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on July 25, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Don't see why why Casement shouldn't be able to host Ulster finals. I'd like to see them alternate between Clones and Casement.

Always liked the nice backdrop of the mountain, the sublime surface. Yes a bit of a cnut to get out of with queues of traffic but so is Clones.

It's a shame this is being allowed to drag on for so long as the new stadium will provide a real shot in the arm for GAA in west Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 25, 2015, 09:44:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on July 25, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Don't see why why Casement shouldn't be able to host Ulster finals. I'd like to see them alternate between Clones and Casement.

Always liked the nice backdrop of the mountain, the sublime surface. Yes a bit of a cnut to get out of with queues of traffic but so is Clones.

It's a shame this is being allowed to drag on for so long as the new stadium will provide a real shot in the arm for GAA in west Belfast.

The traffic round Clones is a tough one alright but there seems to be this myth that Casement is 4 four minutes from the nine counties. Anytime I visited, I'd as much bother getting home as I did from Clones, don't see how this is gonna suddenly change with a new stadium on the same site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sidney on July 25, 2015, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
If Croke Park doesnt have at least 70,000 people in it, yes, it's generally soulless. In fact, if the crowd is below 40,000, it's one of the most soulless venues I can think of.

I can name about 20 matches I've attended in the last five years at Croke Park which have had atmospheres that make a wet Sunday in Holyhead seem exciting in comparison.

Clones is special. Casement Park will never be.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 25, 2015, 10:44:52 PM
At this point hs i'd just like to see us with a county ground. The whole thing has turned into a farce and ulster council have not exactly handled things well. Antrim county board have dealt with it as they tend to deal with most things- incompetently.


I don't see an easy way out of this and just hope we don't lose everything out of itas it's very dependent on grants and if they're cut then trouble ahead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 25, 2015, 10:59:27 PM
Ai but you'd like to think it'd be able to be used for county games. Yeah the if, or perhaps when, is what worries me more.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on July 26, 2015, 12:39:28 AM
Fully developed it could put West Belfast on tbe map.  Big games and concerts like U2 , Rolling Stones etc etc could rejuvenate the area.  But this would not go down well with the ' wallow in our own sympathy ' saddos who live in the area
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bridgegael on July 26, 2015, 07:49:18 AM
Flaten it and stick a tescos or sainsburys there and move on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 26, 2015, 09:39:14 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on July 26, 2015, 12:39:28 AM
Fully developed it could put West Belfast on tbe map.  Big games and concerts like U2 , Rolling Stones etc etc could rejuvenate the area.  But this would not go down well with the ' wallow in our own sympathy ' saddos who live in the area
Where are these concerts coming from? There is already scope for 40,000 capacity concerts in Belfast, but they rarely if ever happen. That won't change just because there's a big flash stadium. Even if the odd concert did happen, it might be good for Belfast in general, but would do little for West Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2015, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: Sidney on July 25, 2015, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
If Croke Park doesnt have at least 70,000 people in it, yes, it's generally soulless. In fact, if the crowd is below 40,000, it's one of the most soulless venues I can think of.

I can name about 20 matches I've attended in the last five years at Croke Park which have had atmospheres that make a wet Sunday in Holyhead seem exciting in comparison.

Clones is special. Casement Park will never be.

I'm going to throw it out there, I reckon you've never been to Clones, as you are full of shite
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sidney on July 26, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2015, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: Sidney on July 25, 2015, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on July 23, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Quote from: Sidney on July 19, 2015, 07:57:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2015, 03:22:01 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Clones looking well today.
Ulster final day in Clones should have a preservation order attached to it.

Hurling people talk about Munster hurling final day in Thurles being special. Ulster football final day in Clones is just as special and to do away with it forever in favour of moving to a soulless flat-pack cavern in Belfast would, in my view, be an act of desecration.

Agreed. I have been going to Clones for over 40 years & while it certainly isn't the last word in sophistication, the atmosphere on a big day can't be beaten.

If we move to a soulless all seater modern concrete stadium on the Falls Rd we will lose something that will be very hard to replace.

Is Croke park soulless?  Casement to be built to a mini version of Croke... If its built, I'm sure like most stadiums of a similar style in all the major cities around the world, it will be grand... Given half the chance Clones would change if given free money
If Croke Park doesnt have at least 70,000 people in it, yes, it's generally soulless. In fact, if the crowd is below 40,000, it's one of the most soulless venues I can think of.

I can name about 20 matches I've attended in the last five years at Croke Park which have had atmospheres that make a wet Sunday in Holyhead seem exciting in comparison.

Clones is special. Casement Park will never be.

I'm going to throw it out there, I reckon you've never been to Clones, as you are full of shite
As usual, you'd be wrong. I've been to Clones seven times and to three Ulster finals. It's my favourite venue in Ireland, just ahead of Killarney, and well ahead of Thurles, where I'm off to right now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bridgegael on July 26, 2015, 12:29:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 26, 2015, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: bridgegael on July 26, 2015, 07:49:18 AM
Flaten it and stick a tescos or sainsburys there and move on.
Hard to see Sainsburys moving a couple of hundred yards up the road but great idea. Keep them coming. You have potential to be the new Armaghniac.

ok pedantic paul.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on July 26, 2015, 12:31:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 25, 2015, 10:37:33 PM
Seemingly nobody wants to come to Casement. As imtommygunn suggested, any chance of getting our county ground back, you land grabbing feckers?

Where are you currently hosting all the games Casement used to have?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 26, 2015, 03:20:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 26, 2015, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: bridgegael on July 26, 2015, 07:49:18 AM
Flaten it and stick a tescos or sainsburys there and move on.
Hard to see Sainsburys moving a couple of hundred yards up the road but great idea.

perhaps a site swap would keep everyone happy?

QuoteKeep them coming. You have potential to be the new Armaghniac.

I still think the original is the best.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on July 27, 2015, 11:05:41 AM
I have a great affinity with Clones, I have many happy memories of going to it with my kids and my dad. But the north is coughing up the cash so Casement appears to be the only show in town. It would be a shame if with Ravenhill and Windsor being delivered that this opportunity would be lost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 27, 2015, 11:16:55 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 27, 2015, 11:05:41 AM
I have a great affinity with Clones, I have many happy memories of going to it with my kids and my dad. But the north is coughing up the cash so Casement appears to be the only show in town. It would be a shame if with Ravenhill and Windsor being delivered that this opportunity would be lost.

The IFA is run by the biggest bunch of muppets in town and at least twice they pricked around so much that funding was nearly lost for all 3 grounds and yet a quick glance online will show Windsor park now in week 63 of develpment and it looks ace.

http://www.irishfa.com/stadium-development

Meanwhile this is all the GAA have to show for at the moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CApN0sr9pEE

The whole thing has become a farce
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 27, 2015, 11:24:32 AM
A quick reminder this thread will soon be celebrating its 5th birthday. What exactly has happened since then??? The GAA need to stop wasting more time submit new plans now or look at other sites and sell Casement. Why is it taking 6 months to 'modify' the existing plans?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on July 27, 2015, 04:22:12 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 27, 2015, 11:24:32 AM
A quick reminder this thread will soon be celebrating its 5th birthday. What exactly has happened since then??? The GAA need to stop wasting more time submit new plans now or look at other sites and sell Casement. Why is it taking 6 months to 'modify' the existing plans?

Consultants and Architects making plenty of dough taking extended vacation time abroad maybe?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on July 28, 2015, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 16, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
Quote from: ck on March 16, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
Is there a time scale on the Casement development?
There won't be a ball kicked in the new Casement for at least 5 years, IMO.

Shoulda put a quid on that back then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 28, 2015, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2015, 07:29:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 16, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
Quote from: ck on March 16, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
Is there a time scale on the Casement development?
There won't be a ball kicked in the new Casement for at least 5 years, IMO.

Shoulda put a quid on that back then.
In time for the next Gareth Brooks tour.. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on July 28, 2015, 09:34:02 PM
I've been to Clones plenty and had plenty of great days out but in the cold light of day it's a sh!thole with substandard facilities for the modern era.

Yes it has history but so does Casement and many other venues.

Any stadium that is packed to the rafters or at least with 80-90% filled capacity will generate a good atmosphere.

Clones at below 60% is as lifeless as anywhere else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 28, 2015, 09:39:49 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on July 28, 2015, 09:34:02 PM
I've been to Clones plenty and had plenty of great days out but in the cold light of day it's a sh!thole with substandard facilities for the modern era.

Yes it has history but so does Casement and many other venues.

Any stadium that is packed to the rafters or at least with 80-90% filled capacity will generate a good atmosphere.

Clones at below 60% is as lifeless as anywhere else.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...

Dan Stanton ‏@DanStantonrep  · 34 minutes ago 
There's a security alert in West Belfast. The Andersonstown Road between Casement Park and Stockman's Lane is closed.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLkBjGTWsAA2_4S.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2015, 05:06:40 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...

Dan Stanton ‏@DanStantonrep  · 34 minutes ago 
There's a security alert in West Belfast. The Andersonstown Road between Casement Park and Stockman's Lane is closed.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLkBjGTWsAA2_4S.jpg)

They are finally going to blow it up!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...
Isn't this one of those scenarios Caral Ni Chuilin couldn't envisage? How do you get 38,000 people out of Casement now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...
Isn't this one of those scenarios Caral Ni Chuilin couldn't envisage? How do you get 38,000 people out of Casement now?

38000 people should be able to leave Casement safely from the other side. I suspect the problem here is that they want the entrance to be at Andytown road to placate the residents and this is compromising the emergency exit end of things.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...
Isn't this one of those scenarios Caral Ni Chuilin couldn't envisage? How do you get 38,000 people out of Casement now?

38000 people should be able to leave Casement safely from the other side. I suspect the problem here is that they want the entrance to be at Andytown road to placate the residents and this is compromising the emergency exit end of things.
What other side? Unless i'm missing something, there's a narrow pedestrian path leading down to the roundabout under the M1. How long would it take to get 38,000 people out that way in an emergency?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2015, 06:25:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...
Isn't this one of those scenarios Caral Ni Chuilin couldn't envisage? How do you get 38,000 people out of Casement now?

They'll just dander out of Casement should there be a bomb scare, more than likely phoned in by someone at the match whose team is getting a beating.... never known a bomb scare in that area during a match day
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 06:47:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 04, 2015, 01:34:06 PM
Slugger O'Toole ‏@SluggerOToole  · 2 hours ago
For all you westies there is a bomb alert outside casement park. Andersonstown road is sealed off. Traffic chaos ensues...
Isn't this one of those scenarios Caral Ni Chuilin couldn't envisage? How do you get 38,000 people out of Casement now?

38000 people should be able to leave Casement safely from the other side. I suspect the problem here is that they want the entrance to be at Andytown road to placate the residents and this is compromising the emergency exit end of things.
What other side? Unless i'm missing something, there's a narrow pedestrian path leading down to the roundabout under the M1. How long would it take to get 38,000 people out that way in an emergency?

This is a narrow pedestrian path at the end of a closed off street, it could be widened to the width of the street without difficulty. For instance you coould put large flower pots here which could simply be moved on the couple of days a year there was a big crowd in Casement. In addition some provision could be made for access towards Riverdale and Finaghy Road. You are right to raise these issues, but there are solutions.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2015, 06:55:25 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.

Clockwise
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.
Exactly. Even if you can make the path to there, you can't have that number of people descending on a major junction like that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.
Exactly. Even if you can make the path to there, you can't have that number of people descending on a major junction like that.

Where do people go on Andersontown Road? Saying that you cannot have a crowd of people is simply saying that you do not want a stadium there at all. My point is simply that, with a small bit of planning, you can have a bomb threat at the front gate of Casement and everyone can get out the back gate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: omaghjoe on August 04, 2015, 07:15:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.
Exactly. Even if you can make the path to there, you can't have that number of people descending on a major junction like that.

Where do people go on Andersontown Road? Saying that you cannot have a crowd of people is simply saying that you do not want a stadium there at all. My point is simply that, with a small bit of planning, you can have a bomb threat at the front gate of Casement and everyone can get out the back gate.

Who do you think you are coming up with logical solutions to potential problems?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:30:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.
Exactly. Even if you can make the path to there, you can't have that number of people descending on a major junction like that.

Where do people go on Andersontown Road? Saying that you cannot have a crowd of people is simply saying that you do not want a stadium there at all. My point is simply that, with a small bit of planning, you can have a bomb threat at the front gate of Casement and everyone can get out the back gate.
I'm not saying you can't have a crowd of people, just that you can't put 38,000 people down one narrow street in 20 minutes, or straight onto a 4 lane roundabout.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:30:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.
Exactly. Even if you can make the path to there, you can't have that number of people descending on a major junction like that.

Where do people go on Andersontown Road? Saying that you cannot have a crowd of people is simply saying that you do not want a stadium there at all. My point is simply that, with a small bit of planning, you can have a bomb threat at the front gate of Casement and everyone can get out the back gate.
I'm not saying you can't have a crowd of people, just that you can't put 38,000 people down one narrow street in 20 minutes, or straight onto a 4 lane roundabout.

Remembering that this is just one route to be used if there is a problem elsewhere. What arrangements are made at other stadia, from Croke Park to old Trafford if there is a bomb on one side?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:30:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on August 04, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
Where do the people go at the roundabout, Armaghniac? I'm intrigued.
Exactly. Even if you can make the path to there, you can't have that number of people descending on a major junction like that.

Where do people go on Andersontown Road? Saying that you cannot have a crowd of people is simply saying that you do not want a stadium there at all. My point is simply that, with a small bit of planning, you can have a bomb threat at the front gate of Casement and everyone can get out the back gate.
I'm not saying you can't have a crowd of people, just that you can't put 38,000 people down one narrow street in 20 minutes, or straight onto a 4 lane roundabout.

Remembering that this is just one route to be used if there is a problem elsewhere. What arrangements are made at other stadia, from Croke Park to old Trafford if there is a bomb on one side?
Well Croke Park has exits on 3 sides. I've never been to Old Trafford, but on Google Maps it looks like there is no shortage of exit routes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2015, 08:28:04 PM
Old Casement had plenty exits... Mostly all welded up but most houses had ladders very close to the wall to help you get in so id imagine they would help you get out... I wonder would they have charged again on way out?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on August 05, 2015, 09:24:08 AM
Can you imagine the fun the UVF will have everytime there is a big game in Casement?

Spectators would be well advised to bring a sleeping bag, sandwiches & a flask of tae with them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on August 05, 2015, 09:29:53 AM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on August 05, 2015, 09:24:08 AM
Can you imagine the fun the UVF will have everytime there is a big game in Casement?

Spectators would be well advised to bring a sleeping bag, sandwiches & a flask of tae with them.

::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 05, 2015, 11:15:37 AM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on August 05, 2015, 09:24:08 AM
Can you imagine the fun the UVF will have everytime there is a big game in Casement?

Spectators would be well advised to bring a sleeping bag, sandwiches & a flask of tae with them.

Of all the bomb scares in and around that area, I cant quite remember it ever being Loyalists.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 06, 2015, 04:06:07 PM
Police have published a new policy detailing how they will charge private events for operations deemed over and above core policing services.

Sporting events including GAA matches, music concerts, community fairs and charity fundraisers are among the events facing charges under the guidelines.

[Here] (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/08/06/news/psni-to-charge-for-policing-sport-and-charity-events-but-parades-go-free-215828/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on August 06, 2015, 04:08:34 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 06, 2015, 04:06:07 PM
Police have published a new policy detailing how they will charge private events for operations deemed over and above core policing services.

Sporting events including GAA matches, music concerts, community fairs and charity fundraisers are among the events facing charges under the guidelines.

[Here] (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/08/06/news/psni-to-charge-for-policing-sport-and-charity-events-but-parades-go-free-215828/)

And not the 12th???! Thats outrageous.

I think its fair enough to charge for extra policing, but how on earth can they justify not charging for the 12th??!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 06, 2015, 04:19:00 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 06, 2015, 04:08:34 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 06, 2015, 04:06:07 PM
Police have published a new policy detailing how they will charge private events for operations deemed over and above core policing services.

Sporting events including GAA matches, music concerts, community fairs and charity fundraisers are among the events facing charges under the guidelines.

[Here] (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/08/06/news/psni-to-charge-for-policing-sport-and-charity-events-but-parades-go-free-215828/)

And not the 12th???! Thats outrageous.

I think its fair enough to charge for extra policing, but how on earth can they justify not charging for the 12th??!
Last vestiges of the orange state.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 07, 2015, 01:54:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 04, 2015, 07:20:49 PM
Armaghniac, no harm to you, but I hope to God that none of my family, or yours, are ever evacuated from a full Casement Park using the route you have suggested. That will be carnage.
Hopefully these concerns will be addressed sooner than you think.  Heard there might be some big news on this before the end of the week.  With the last problem resolved, it will be great for us all to get over this hump and get the damn thing built..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 07, 2015, 05:35:02 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 07, 2015, 04:42:57 PM
When are we to expect a new planning application?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-33826653

"it would be at least another year before another planning application could be submitted"

That would suggest at least 3 more Ulster Finals in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 07, 2015, 05:44:58 PM
Full report here: http://www.dcalni.gov.uk/

Probably worth a read, but not tonight!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 07, 2015, 06:31:32 PM
That's another fecking disaster by what must be the most incompetent decision makers/planners/architects/designers/ministers and whoever else was part of this fiasco.... Embarrassed or what??!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 07, 2015, 09:45:20 PM
Amber/Red: Successful delivery of the project/programme is in doubt with major risks or issues apparent in a number of key areas. Urgent action is needed to ensure these are addressed, and whether resolution is feasible



Casement Park – there are major issues with this project, which needs to attempt to obtain planning permission for the second time and needs to address key safety issues relating to operation of the stadium on match days. Relationships between key stakeholders are poor, and there is insufficient experience of a project of this scale within a number of stakeholders. Despite this, a resolution that still provides a strategic regional stadium for Gaelic Games, within budget but some years later than intended is still possible. For that reason we assess this project as AMBER/RED
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 07, 2015, 09:48:45 PM
Based on our independent technical advice and discussions with project and programme stakeholders we believe design and operational changes that will need to be reviewed include adjustments to existing exits, examination of potential additional exits and capacity reductions.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 07, 2015, 10:10:17 PM
Yes, noticeable that the GAA statement was silent on the issue of capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 07, 2015, 11:47:31 PM
Good news for Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on August 08, 2015, 08:57:10 AM
Very messy all round.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 12, 2015, 01:20:10 PM
By Eamonn McCann

Confronted last Friday with a damning report on the Casement Park redevelopment scheme, Minister Caral Ni Chuilin accepted responsibility, rejected blame and said that she won't be resigning.

The report from the Project Assessment Review panel of the Cabinet Office made 20 recommendations for change. The most telling from the point of view of Ms Ni Chuilin's Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) was that she must appoint a new "senior responsible officer" to take over from the DCAL deputy permanent secretary who has filled the position until now.

Another recommendation was that the chair of the Safety Technical Group, Paul Scott, should be replaced by someone with expertise in "mediation and facilitation", rather than in the technical practicalities of the project.

The review had been undertaken in response to a claim by Mr Scott to the DCAL committee at Stormont in April that, in spite of his safety concerns, he had come under "undue pressure" from within the department to agree to give the scheme the go-ahead. He accused officials of "bullying".

The panel found so little trust left between DCAL, Ulster GAA, Sports NI and other "stakeholders" that outside counselling was required: "An independent mediator will be needed to reset working relationships."

It was reported on Monday that Mr Scott had been told by Sports NI, for which he works, that he's not to make further public comment on the matter under pain of possible disciplinary action.

The report was published late last Friday afternoon, the traditional time for release of news which official bodies don't want widely publicised. Rather than distributing copies or emailing the report to newsrooms, DCAL summoned journalists to its head office in central Belfast, where they were given an hour to read the text and then almost seven minutes to pursue with the minister any issues arising from the report and its 20 recommendations.


The minister interpreted the document itself as meaning that she had been "open, transparent and professional" throughout. The GAA took a similarly creative approach, accepting a recommendation for drastic change in the way it handled its role - appoint a new, full-time project leader and invest "significant additional resources" - before hailing the report as a "clear vindication of the premium which the GAA attached to the development of a new safe stadium".


The GAA had joined with DCAL in opposing residents of the area, who had mounted a court challenge to the stadium plan. Both the association and the department stressed the urgency of the project: the provision of a 38,000-capacity stadium was key to winning the staging of the 2023 Rugby World Cup, it was suggested.

Given the objection already upheld in the courts, it is highly unlikely that the stadium, when and if it is completed, will hold 38,000 spectators. As well, the time-scale for completion stretches ever further into the future.


Following the residents' success last December in having planning permission quashed, the association seemed confident that this would prove no more than a blip. There would be a new application before the planners by the middle of this year, it declared.


Now, though, according to the panel, it will take 12 months from the repair of relations between the various stakeholders before any new planning application can be submitted. It is likely to take another 12 months for formal approval. That's if there are no further court challenges.

It is hard to see a sod of turf being turned on the site before the second half of 2017.

The project has been costed at £77m. But past experience, current delays, administrative chaos and inflation over a longer-than-anticipated period suggest that taxpayers will be lucky if the final bill doesn't top £100m.

This has been an outright disaster for which nobody is prepared to accept any blame.

[Here] (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/eamonn-mccann/casement-like-red-sky-farce-no-ones-to-blame-for-31444785.html)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on August 12, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Belfast City Council should step up and offer an alternative site capable of holding the originally tendered 40K capacity.

A site big enough to hold a 40k stadium.
A site big enough to allow a roof on ALL four sides of the stadium.

I loved the reference in the report to the H&S importance of ensuring that fans continue sitting in the uncovered Andytown Road stand during any outbreaks of heavy rain. How fecking miserable will that be?

Time for the GAA top brass to stop digging a hole and get a big enough site.






Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on August 13, 2015, 02:11:44 PM
When are SF going start putting able people in positions of authority. Good government is being sacrificed at the alter of SF's own needs regarding it war veterans.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 15, 2015, 01:54:51 PM
Casement turning into a Field of Nightmares

Patrick Murphy 
15 August, 2015

You will be heartened to hear that our beloved Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) has progressed from supporting the film industry to making its own films.

Its latest production is an Irish adaptation of the Oscar-winning Field of Dreams, a film about an American farmer who responds to a voice urging him to turn his cornfield into a baseball stadium. The ghosts of past baseball stars turn up to play in it, thereby rescuing him from financial ruin.

So, stand by for Field of Nightmares - the Casement Park Story, which will not be coming to a cinema near you any time soon.

Starring Carál Ní Chuilín as the Voice and featuring a cast of thousands from Sinn Féin, the GAA, the PSNI, the SDLP which approved the initial plan, and (if it still exists) Sport NI, Field of Nightmares has already cost an estimated £6.7 million in professional fees. It is currently the most expensive field of hay in Irish history.

Film critics have described it as a political comedy, with several sub-plots of intrigue and incompetence. Although the GAA has pledged £15 million of the £77 million total cost, a staggering 80 per cent (£62 million) will come from public funds.

Although 35 per cent of Dublin's new Croke Park's funding came from the National Lottery, only 7.5 per cent came from the taxpayer. Insolvent Stormont's generosity knows no bounds.

(Oh dear, you say, I hope this column is not, in the DCAL Minister's words, `an anti-GAA element.' No, it is pro-GAA. Well, pro-hurling actually. With a few honourable exceptions, it sees Gaelic football as organised boredom, camouflaged with jargon.)

DCAL offered three reasons for its proposed lavish spending on Casement: it urgently needs refurbishment; it will boost the economy of west Belfast and it will promote Gaelic games. It got the first one half right. The other two are seriously flawed.

Casement certainly needs a new stand and new changing facilities. There is no argument about that. However, it does not `need' a 38,000-seat stadium with pubs, restaurants and corporate boxes in the same way that, for example, hospitals need medical equipment.

But, says the Voice, such a stadium will promote Gaelic games. It will not. The way to promote hurling in Belfast, for example, is to have every child in the city with a hurl in his/her hand. Sport can only be promoted through the development of children, not by facilitating those who see it as entertainment during dinner.

Would Antrim hurlers have avoided relegation this year,or would Fermanagh footballers have progressed even further if there had been corporate facilities in Casement?

(No, you may not ask if a 38,000-seater stadium would improve the quality of diving in Gaelic football. You could be barred from the corporate boxes for that sort of comment.)

President Obama recently undermined DCAL's argument that a redeveloped Casement would economically boost west Belfast.

His budget for next year proposes to end public subsidies for sports stadiums, because there is now sufficient evidence that they do not boost local economies. Public money spent in other ways can achieve significantly better results.

If DCAL disagrees, it might like to explain how exactly corporate boxes at Casement will reduce child poverty in west Belfast.

So why build such an unnecessarily grand affair? Could it, heaven forbid, be politically motivated?

There is nothing new in developing sport and stadiums for political advantage, as certain totalitarian regimes have discovered.

The Free State government used the revived Tailteann Games (an Irish equivalent of the Olympics) from 1924 to 1932 to promote the new post-Treaty state. For helping to organise the games, the GAA received £10,000 to build what became the Hogan Stand. Not much changes in Ireland.

But this time the process has been described as "shambolic" and a "mess". The British Cabinet Office identified a raft of failings, which the Minister published last Friday at 4 pm, giving journalists an hour to digest its 50 pages and seven minutes to ask questions.

"I am anti-censorship," she said, in this film's most immortal line. In Field of Dreams, the voice says, "Build it and he will come." Sinn Fein's voice in Field of Nightmares suggests, "Build it and they will come - to the polling stations".

In what looks like a monument to Sinn Féin's New Nationalism, the plans for Casement Park appropriately required guidance from London to stop them collapsing. So far the process has turned out to be a political own goal, which, sadly, still leaves Casement Park in urgent need of redevelopment. There will be no Oscars for this one.

Here (http://www.irishnews.com/opinion/columnists/2015/08/15/news/casement-turning-into-a-field-of-nightmares-227173/)



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on August 15, 2015, 05:51:59 PM
That article is fundamentally flawed, given that this money comes from London, not Stormont's budget, so it's spent on the stadium or it's lost to Northern Ireland. There are plenty of valid arguments against Casement, but this isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 08, 2015, 10:34:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 08, 2015, 10:24:30 PM
Feck me, what is going on now ffs?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34192612
Looks like some people arent going to lie down for the DCAL steamroller.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 08, 2015, 10:37:56 PM
Feck sake, just abandon ship and extend the Athletic Grounds.

The fees wasted already could've built 2 stadiums.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 08, 2015, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 08, 2015, 10:24:30 PM
Feck me, what is going on now ffs?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34192612

No matter how many times they're rapped across the knuckles for unprofessionalism, it happens all over again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 01, 2015, 12:41:12 AM
Lest we forget.. ffs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 01, 2015, 12:53:27 AM
I see wee Feeney is away. He'll be missed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 01, 2015, 08:06:29 AM
Was a kip for a city stadium.. Hopefully a taxpayer paid brand new spanking gift wrapped stadium could be built..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 17, 2015, 12:00:35 PM
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/belfast%20tele_20151217083730_00001_zpsnxy82juq.jpg)


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/stadium-experts-bullying-claim-dismissed-by-independent-probe-34294387.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/stadium-experts-bullying-claim-dismissed-by-independent-probe-34294387.html)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 17, 2015, 09:27:42 PM
The plot thickens.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on March 03, 2016, 09:45:01 PM

What's the latest?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on March 03, 2016, 11:47:03 PM

Her incompetence continues to break new ground
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2016, 12:28:55 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 03, 2016, 11:47:03 PM

Her incompetence continues to break new ground

Indeed, even greater incompetence is the only new ground here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 04, 2016, 09:33:17 AM
Dear lord, as much as Antrim CB (2015 version) and the Ulster Council have proven at some stage in this process to have been abjectly useless, I think Carál has taken it to a whole new level and has probably signed the death knell on this project.

Maybe not a bad thing, Antrim CB need to get the deeds back out of Armagh and get Casement up and running in some form which may benefit them short and long term.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 04, 2016, 09:37:25 AM
What's the latest here? Will a new design be launched in 2016?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 04, 2016, 09:42:49 AM
I blame the IFA
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on March 04, 2016, 10:09:26 AM
What happened at Stormont yesterday was just another typical day at the office in NI politics. Lets be honest there are many up there who detest GAA and the proud Irish cultural heritage it represents.

Yesterday they tried to make Caral take an oath. She refused on the grounds that either everyone in the investigation does so, or no one does. Do you not back her stance on this as a matter of principle?

There will be some individuals looking to make cheap political capital by being seen to attempt to discredit this project or try to derail it altogether.

Two things happening not to be confused.  (1) An investigation is going on into aspects of health and safety relating to previous application. (2) The green light for£60m funding is still in place and is ringfenced.

Its now up to Ulster Gaa council who are the lead partners to come up with a stadium plan that suits (a) the budget, (b)the planners (c) local residents, (d)social club relocation etc and (e) of increasing significance, a deal that means a lot more to Antrim GAA than was on the table a few months ago before Antrim got its house in order with a committee that can now properly represent and negotiate their interests in this matter.

Thankfully the last application failed. All parties are now in a better position to get this right the second time round.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim abu on March 04, 2016, 11:11:12 AM
the big lad from Fermanagh and our Marty need to step into this, take their respective party members out of this situation and let their nr 2's take over the Casement thing. Then we can maybe get £60m released into the economy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 04, 2016, 03:33:51 PM
I wouldn't be Caral's biggest fan but we Nelsy is trying his best to derail this by his less than impartial Chairing of that committee.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 04, 2016, 07:18:15 PM
She is definitely an imbecile but also definitely some mischief making from the DUPers
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: skeog on March 04, 2016, 08:54:57 PM
time to abandon casement and get a greenfield site west of the bann
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on March 04, 2016, 09:00:56 PM
Come on Skeog. Keep up.

The grant is ring fenced for a GAA facility in West Belfast. That's the only option. There is no plan B. No alternative. No other venue. Sorry if that spoils a good story!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2016, 09:10:35 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 04, 2016, 09:00:56 PM
Come on Skeog. Keep up.

The grant is ring fenced for a GAA facility in West Belfast. That's the only option. There is no plan B. No alternative. No other venue. Sorry if that spoils a good story!

Why was the money ring fenced for a particular site when that site might run into problems?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 04, 2016, 09:43:39 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 04, 2016, 09:00:56 PM
Come on Skeog. Keep up.

The grant is ring fenced for a GAA facility in West Belfast. That's the only option. There is no plan B. No alternative. No other venue. Sorry if that spoils a good story!

But can we not move West Belfast to, say, Maghery?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on March 05, 2016, 01:53:10 AM
Lol O Neill you`re some craic!  There is only one show in town and the £60m is available for West Belfast or its gone man. Solid gone!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 05, 2016, 08:42:20 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 05, 2016, 01:53:55 AM
No, we can't. One reason for this is that the site in west Belfast is being handed over free of charge (much to my dismay).
Also, Sinn Fein want to be seen to be hand-delivering this "economic boost" to their faithful west Belfast.

I have no doubt that there is quite a bit if political skulduggery going on from certain Unionist quarters. The thing is, you don't leave yourself open to that. Caral Ní Chuilín's latest stunt doesn't strike me as an option that would be taken by somebody who wants to move this project forward as quickly as possible. It appears to me that it is political deflection from coming under the heat. It seems highly likely, at this stage, that she has told lies. If so, be big enough to admit it, if not for her own sake but for the sake of getting this project going.

Or she could have played Nelson at his own game and lied through her teeth, ala Red Sky and the Housing Executive.

Caral doesn't come across as a slick political manoeuvrer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 05, 2016, 09:04:46 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 05, 2016, 08:42:20 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 05, 2016, 01:53:55 AM
No, we can't. One reason for this is that the site in west Belfast is being handed over free of charge (much to my dismay).
Also, Sinn Fein want to be seen to be hand-delivering this "economic boost" to their faithful west Belfast.

I have no doubt that there is quite a bit if political skulduggery going on from certain Unionist quarters. The thing is, you don't leave yourself open to that. Caral Ní Chuilín's latest stunt doesn't strike me as an option that would be taken by somebody who wants to move this project forward as quickly as possible. It appears to me that it is political deflection from coming under the heat. It seems highly likely, at this stage, that she has told lies. If so, be big enough to admit it, if not for her own sake but for the sake of getting this project going.

Or she could have played Nelson at his own game and lied through her teeth, ala Red Sky and the Housing Executive.

Caral doesn't come across as a slick political manoeuvrer.

I would say what comes out of her mouth is basically what her senior civil servants are telling her to say.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 05, 2016, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 04, 2016, 09:00:56 PM
Come on Skeog. Keep up.

The grant is ring fenced for a GAA facility in West Belfast. That's the only option. There is no plan B. No alternative. No other venue. Sorry if that spoils a good story!
No, it's ringfenced for one GAA stadium. The GAA chose the location and there's nothing to stop them putting in an application for another location (in NI). This money was, of course, originally intended for the Maze.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on March 05, 2016, 01:31:26 PM
That's the opposite of my understanding Maguire.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: jp2020 on March 05, 2016, 03:06:35 PM
Do people actually want this stadium? I for one dont! Sorry we need a stadium capable of holding say 25-30k but just not in that sh1thole! I've been to many matches there and its generally missing atmosphere. And at least you can park in any other ground in Ireland and your car will be there when you come back!

Time to end this farce and pick an area where the GAA is appreciated and generate that area. End the Shinner agenda!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 05, 2016, 03:48:22 PM
Quote from: jp2020 on March 05, 2016, 03:06:35 PM
Do people actually want this stadium? I for one dont! Sorry we need a stadium capable of holding say 25-30k but just not in that sh1thole! I've been to many matches there and its generally missing atmosphere. And at least you can park in any other ground in Ireland and your car will be there when you come back!

Time to end this farce and pick an area where the GAA is appreciated and generate that area. End the Shinner agenda!
How many cars have been stolen from attendees at Casement during GAA matches?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 05, 2016, 06:15:56 PM
I liked Casement. It's no better or worse than Clones, Omagh, Celtic Park etc in terms of match day experience. My preferred choice was a shared stadium or else nothing but of course Linfield/IFA didn't want that  ::)

C Ní C is a bit of a tube and the sooner this thing gets some motion the better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: jp2020 on March 05, 2016, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 05, 2016, 03:48:22 PM
Quote from: jp2020 on March 05, 2016, 03:06:35 PM
Do people actually want this stadium? I for one dont! Sorry we need a stadium capable of holding say 25-30k but just not in that sh1thole! I've been to many matches there and its generally missing atmosphere. And at least you can park in any other ground in Ireland and your car will be there when you come back!

Time to end this farce and pick an area where the GAA is appreciated and generate that area. End the Shinner agenda!
How many cars have been stolen from attendees at Casement during GAA matches?
I personally know 2 people and have heard stories of others! Anyway 1 is too many! Andytown is just the wrong location. Its people playing politics in sport!
Title: Cleasaíocht
Post by: drici on March 05, 2016, 11:07:07 PM
Remember talking to a woman who had parked near Casement for a match.
She came out afterwards and discovered that the local Hoods had a placed a pretend parking fine ticket under the windscreen wipers of her car.
She said that her nerves were away so they were.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 05, 2016, 11:16:41 PM
Apparently 2000 battered sausages are consumed during a championship game at Casement. *optastats
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: worn down on March 05, 2016, 11:21:28 PM
Quote from: jp2020 on March 05, 2016, 03:06:35 PM
Do people actually want this stadium? I for one dont! Sorry we need a stadium capable of holding say 25-30k but just not in that sh1thole! I've been to many matches there and its generally missing atmosphere. And at least you can park in any other ground in Ireland and your car will be there when you come back!

Time to end this farce and pick an area where the GAA is appreciated and generate that area. End the Shinner agenda!

Ever been to Croke?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 05, 2016, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 05, 2016, 11:16:41 PM
Apparently 2000 battered sausages are consumed during a championship game at Casement. *optastats
Championship hurling with 200 people in attendance. 150 of whom came in the side gates as mates of the stewards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 05, 2016, 11:33:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 05, 2016, 11:30:40 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 05, 2016, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 05, 2016, 11:16:41 PM
Apparently 2000 battered sausages are consumed during a championship game at Casement. *optastats
Championship hurling with 200 people in attendance. 150 of whom came in the side gates as mates of the stewards.
I do love battered sausages.


I suppose "So does yer ma" would be the expected comeback.
So does yer ma.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 06:56:30 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 04, 2016, 09:00:56 PM
Come on Skeog. Keep up.

The grant is ring fenced for a GAA facility in West Belfast. That's the only option. There is no plan B. No alternative. No other venue. Sorry if that spoils a good story!

Utter tosh.

The money is ringfenced for the construction of one single stadium. There are not, nor ever have been, any restrictions on the stadium location.

The choice of Casement was the GAA's, and the GAA's alone.

That choice was made on the basis of a flawed 2010 consultancy report, paid for and commissioned by the GAA, that wrongly claimed that the Casement Park site was big enough to host a modern 40k capacity, fully seated stadium.

The consultant's report was simply wrong, and the GAA were wrong to accept it. The site is too constrained and was never feasible without the purchase of many surrounding houses. Even then, it would be sub-optimal, more constrained than a larger Greenfield site.

The GAA, even at this stage should stop digging, and extricate themselves from the mess we're in. The site is too small. A larger site elsewhere needs to be found.

Even if the funding doesn't stretch to building the original 40k, fully seated stadium, an alternative larger site would allow the eventual delivery of a 40k, fully covered stadium as funds allow in future decades. The main stands could be built for example, leaving behind goals for future development. Casement, because it is too constrained, can never be the 40k fully seated stadium that this project was meant to deliver.

We should walk away from Casement, even now, after the effort and money spent, and that continues to get spent. The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is today.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 09:35:34 AM
And do what with Casement exactly?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 09:35:34 AM
And do what with Casement exactly?

Put a prunty pitch on it, and a small stand on side of it, eg 4k capacity, to allow it to host club and college games. It's blindingly obvious the site is too constrained to be the strategic stadium we need - that's where all these problems stem from.

That's why the project's been delayed.

That's why the capacity's been reduced.

That's why the main arterial route, a bus rapid transport route,  through South West Belfast would have to be shut on matchdays - there's no room to allow crowds to disperse safely otherwise.

That's why one of the stands would have no roof. In Belfast - rains a lot ffs.

That's why, to meet capacity, the deepest stand would have to be built BEHIND the goals, not down the sides. Complete madness. It guarantees rubbish viewing angles. Google "optimal viewing circle" "stadium design". I'd say Casement would be the only stadium built in the last half a century anywhere in the world where the deepest stand isn't along the sidelines. That's where the best views are, that's where people should sit.

The archictect themselves admitted the site is constrained. Pack up the project and move it somewhere where theres enough room to build it.  The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is today.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 10:02:10 AM
If the site's big enough, the  stadium is future proof and can be built to the required capacity. The original tender docs for this project specified a 40k, fully covered, fully seated stadium.

Casement can never deliver that. And what would be built at Casement would realistically never be expandable.

I'd prefer something like Thomond Park, where the main stands (down the sidelines!!) are built big, and if there's not enough money to do the whole thing properly, allow enough room to build behind goal stands later.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.punchconsulting.com/assets/images/galleries/thomond_park/(3).jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.punchconsulting.com/our-projects/leisure-hotels/thomond-park-rugby-stadium-limerick/&h=500&w=1395&tbnid=Toe0fAqiUm-jNM:&docid=1i7hu_nvym4FFM&ei=x5biVuDmGcv8abT5m5AM&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwig5tHJr7jLAhVLfhoKHbT8BsIQMwgeKAEwAQ (https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.punchconsulting.com/assets/images/galleries/thomond_park/(3).jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.punchconsulting.com/our-projects/leisure-hotels/thomond-park-rugby-stadium-limerick/&h=500&w=1395&tbnid=Toe0fAqiUm-jNM:&docid=1i7hu_nvym4FFM&ei=x5biVuDmGcv8abT5m5AM&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwig5tHJr7jLAhVLfhoKHbT8BsIQMwgeKAEwAQ)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
Well surely if the new plans feature a downsized capacity the stadium can be built? Why the need to expand? Mid 30k is sufficient - surely if need be they can convert seating areas to standing to increase capacity? And anything above that - Croke Park can be used. Of course the site is restrained but too much has been pumped into it for there to be a u turn - it'd be a scandal and no politician would back it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 11:16:04 AM
I'll tell u what i know... there seems to be a few guys on here that are an expert on Stadium Design and know the RED GUIDE inside and out. I have spoke with a few consultants regarding Casement and the capacity and room for capacity was not a big issue, there was/is room to build a 45K seater stadium but local residents complained about the size of the stands over shadowing their homes so GAA and Designers decided to reduce the size of the stands so it wouldn't have as big an impact as previous design. The biggest factor was the egress time, this is the total time in which all spectators can, in normal conditions, leave an area of viewing accommodation and enter into a free flowing exit system. It does not include the time taken to negotiate the entire exit route. This must happen within 8 minutes of the announcement but Casement Park cannot accommodate therefore the free flowing exit system is inadequate.

Now the strange thing is when the old ground was full to capacity (think it was 32,600) it probably didn't comply with the RED GUIDE safety measures either but there was never a word about it, the best thing going for Casement was that it was/is GAA and there is no segregation with their fans. If it was too accommodate soccer with segregation then it potentially could have been a disaster if trouble was to flare up, gladly we never experienced anything.

Regarding the funding and if it's available to another venue I'm not 100% sure on who said what but i was always under the impression from the Maze was turned down that it was Casement Park or nowt...No other ground/venue was to be considered and if Casement didn't happen we (GAA) lost the grant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:19:31 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 11:16:04 AM
I'll tell u what i know... there seems to be a few guys on here that are an expert on Stadium Design and know the RED GUIDE inside and out. I have spoke with a few consultants regarding Casement and the capacity and room for capacity was not a big issue, there was/is room to build a 45K seater stadium but local residents complained about the size of the stands over shadowing their homes so GAA and Designers decided to reduce the size of the stands so it wouldn't have as big an impact as previous design. The biggest factor was the egress time, this is the total time in which all spectators can, in normal conditions, leave an area of viewing accommodation and enter into a free flowing exit system. It does not include the time taken to negotiate the entire exit route. This must happen within 8 minutes of the announcement but Casement Park cannot accommodate therefore the free flowing exit system is inadequate.

Now the strange thing is when the old ground was full to capacity (think it was 32,600) it probably didn't comply with the RED GUIDE safety measures either but there was never a word about it, the best thing going for Casement was that it was/is GAA and there is no segregation with their fans. If it was too accommodate soccer with segregation then it potentially could have been a disaster if trouble was to flare up, gladly we never experienced anything.

Regarding the funding and if it's available to another venue I'm not 100% sure on who said what but i was always under the impression from the Maze was turned down that it was Casement Park or nowt...No other ground/venue was to be considered and if Casement didn't happen we (GAA) lost the grant.

Who peddled the idea that it was Casement or nowt? Was it the Ulster Council?

AFAIK the money was ring fenced for a one off stadium development, where that was was to be a decision for the Ulster Council..

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on March 11, 2016, 11:59:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
Well surely if the new plans feature a downsized capacity the stadium can be built? Why the need to expand? Mid 30k is sufficient - surely if need be they can convert seating areas to standing to increase capacity? And anything above that - Croke Park can be used. Of course the site is restrained but too much has been pumped into it for there to be a u turn - it'd be a scandal and no politician would back it

Mid 30k is not sufficent, Clones can hold that number already.

As for building it simply because a shedload of money has already been spent, have we learned nothing????
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:19:31 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 11:16:04 AM
I'll tell u what i know... there seems to be a few guys on here that are an expert on Stadium Design and know the RED GUIDE inside and out. I have spoke with a few consultants regarding Casement and the capacity and room for capacity was not a big issue, there was/is room to build a 45K seater stadium but local residents complained about the size of the stands over shadowing their homes so GAA and Designers decided to reduce the size of the stands so it wouldn't have as big an impact as previous design. The biggest factor was the egress time, this is the total time in which all spectators can, in normal conditions, leave an area of viewing accommodation and enter into a free flowing exit system. It does not include the time taken to negotiate the entire exit route. This must happen within 8 minutes of the announcement but Casement Park cannot accommodate therefore the free flowing exit system is inadequate.

Now the strange thing is when the old ground was full to capacity (think it was 32,600) it probably didn't comply with the RED GUIDE safety measures either but there was never a word about it, the best thing going for Casement was that it was/is GAA and there is no segregation with their fans. If it was too accommodate soccer with segregation then it potentially could have been a disaster if trouble was to flare up, gladly we never experienced anything.

Regarding the funding and if it's available to another venue I'm not 100% sure on who said what but i was always under the impression from the Maze was turned down that it was Casement Park or nowt...No other ground/venue was to be considered and if Casement didn't happen we (GAA) lost the grant.

Who peddled the idea that it was Casement or nowt? Was it the Ulster Council?

AFAIK the money was ring fenced for a one off stadium development, where that was was to be a decision for the Ulster Council..

That side of things Johnney i'm not sure on TBH.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:31:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
Well surely if the new plans feature a downsized capacity the stadium can be built? Why the need to expand? Mid 30k is sufficient - surely if need be they can convert seating areas to standing to increase capacity? And anything above that - Croke Park can be used. Of course the site is restrained but too much has been pumped into it for there to be a u turn - it'd be a scandal and no politician would back it

No, they can't just slap a roof on the uncovered stand - it's too close to surrounding housing, specifically the apartments blocks on the Andersonstown Road. They had to drop that proposal as part of the planning permission application.

It's not a question of expanding. The original tender was for a 40k stadium. The only reason capacity keeps getting downwardly revised is that the site is to small. The capacity was dropped to appease residents.

I note you haven't addressed any other points.

As for it would be a scandal. Are you serious???? It's a scandal already, and one that costs millions each year they persist with the half baked notion of spending once in a century funding on a third rate stadium. On a fifth rate site.

The GAA should never have run with Casement. If they'd picked any other site, big enough for a fully covered stadium, properly designed to maximise views for most spectators, and with enough surrounding space for safe dispersal, it would have been finished by now. Think about that this summer with rain pissing down, while rugby and soccer are sitting pretty.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:19:31 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 11:16:04 AM
I'll tell u what i know... there seems to be a few guys on here that are an expert on Stadium Design and know the RED GUIDE inside and out. I have spoke with a few consultants regarding Casement and the capacity and room for capacity was not a big issue, there was/is room to build a 45K seater stadium but local residents complained about the size of the stands over shadowing their homes so GAA and Designers decided to reduce the size of the stands so it wouldn't have as big an impact as previous design. The biggest factor was the egress time, this is the total time in which all spectators can, in normal conditions, leave an area of viewing accommodation and enter into a free flowing exit system. It does not include the time taken to negotiate the entire exit route. This must happen within 8 minutes of the announcement but Casement Park cannot accommodate therefore the free flowing exit system is inadequate.

Now the strange thing is when the old ground was full to capacity (think it was 32,600) it probably didn't comply with the RED GUIDE safety measures either but there was never a word about it, the best thing going for Casement was that it was/is GAA and there is no segregation with their fans. If it was too accommodate soccer with segregation then it potentially could have been a disaster if trouble was to flare up, gladly we never experienced anything.

Regarding the funding and if it's available to another venue I'm not 100% sure on who said what but i was always under the impression from the Maze was turned down that it was Casement Park or nowt...No other ground/venue was to be considered and if Casement didn't happen we (GAA) lost the grant.

Who peddled the idea that it was Casement or nowt? Was it the Ulster Council?

AFAIK the money was ring fenced for a one off stadium development, where that was was to be a decision for the Ulster Council..

That side of things Johnney i'm not sure on TBH.

Fecking hell. Why does this myth, this utter untruth still keep floating around.
Read slowly:

THE FUNDING CAME WITH A CONDITION THAT IT WAS TO ONLY BE USED TO BUILD ONE STADIUM.

THERE WERE NO CONDITIONS ABOUT WHERE THAT STADIUM HAD TO BE.

ANYONE THAT SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS TALKING OUT OF THEIR SPHINCTER.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: StephenC on March 11, 2016, 01:41:20 PM
Snatter lording the game here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 11, 2016, 01:43:31 PM
Casement is for concerts lads. Thats the driver here. Not GAA! :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:47:09 PM
Quote from: snatter on December 17, 2014, 11:16:13 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 17, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 17, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
I think an upgrade of a stadium in Armagh/Tyrone is best, but can't see a brand new stadium being built. When was the last time a GAA stadium was built from scratch? I don't remember any.

Has no one been paying attention to the this the whole way through.

Ziggy said it earlier, this money has been ring fenced for Casement. It cannot and will not be directed to another project anywhere else.

Its Casement of bust I'm afraid.

Incorrect.

The original restrictions still stand, namely that all three sports are to spend the money on one stadium development each.

There have never been any restrictions on whether the stadiums should be refurbishments, greenfield sites, or ties to any given location.

The decision to spend the money on Casement was the GAA's, and the GAA's alone. After receiving (flawed) advice from an unnamed consultancy in 2010 that the site could accommodate a 40k stadium.

Bump
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:50:18 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 20, 2013, 06:28:29 PM
One more bit of sense before I leave my desk.

There's nothing more miserable than sitting in the rain.
Especially if you've paid a decent amount to sit in a joke of a brand new £75 Million Irish stadium that is only 3/4 roofed.

If, God forbid, we do end up with thousands having to be accommodated in the uncovered A'town Rd stand, surely it would be better for the poor drenched souls to be allowed to *stand* rather than sit.

Additionally, I think the GAA & architects should look at these RAIL SEATS that

1. allow safe standing
2. allow more fans to be accommodated in the same space.

See this great site for technical details:

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/the-case-for-safe-standing/case-for-3

For every 40 seated fans, you can get 72 safely standing fans instead!!!!!!!!!

If both the stands behind the goals had these RAIL SEATS, then it might be possible that the 37k capacity could be met by having a shallower A'town rd stand, that could just allow some form of ROOF to be built over it.

This has got to be worth examining.
If anybody has contacts / influence over the GAA project team or architects, then please forward this to them.

The GAA shouldn't get hung up about having an all seated capacity, when a partially standing capacity could deliver a roof over fans' heads instead.

I do agree about safe standing though - another old psot
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: snatter on November 20, 2013, 06:14:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 20, 2013, 06:00:23 PM

Thanks for the very thorough and articulated response Snatter. Regarding the minimum daylight impact standards surely the residents on the other three sides are closer than the apartment block along the Anderstown road?

A deep stand behind the goals can improve atmosphere (Borussia Dortmunds ground an example) but to not cover the ground entirely is madness.

I agree on Musgrave Park but surely that opens a can of worms as it's in South Belfast or is it still technically West?


The A'town Stand roof would have to be much higher than the others becasue it is (embarassingly) the deepest stand.
It is the deepest stand becaue that's the only way that the seated capacity can be pushed up to 37k (as opposed to the 40k that was tendered for).

Below is a link that illustrates just how high the A'town Rd stand roof would had to have been.

See post 1 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744, published at a Community Consultation Event held in November 2012.

--

In Belfast's sectarian micro-geography, Musgrave Park would be technically South rather than West, but at only 250 metres away, does it matter?
The greater commercial opportunites would create far more job opportunities for the people of West Belfast.
Transport links (esp to rail) are better as well.

There you go, the roof that can never be. Over what is laughably the deepest stand in te stadium.

If anybody can't work out what the optimal viewing circle is all about, just look at Thomond Park photo earlier. In the normal world, stadium designers put the deepest sstands along the sides, and even have covex stands, to maximise the numebr of spectators with the best possible views.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 25, 2013, 01:09:35 PM
This is stupid.

You're not anti-GAA if you're against the stadium.

If anything, you're pro-GAA, because the current plans are clearly not the best way to spend a once in a century windfall of £70million.

The site is simply too small and constrained.

The big clue is the Andytown Rd stand with no roof.

If the site were bigger........ there would be greater distance from residents and we'd be able to get a taller building with all four stands having roofs.

If the site were bigger........  the budget would be enough to deliver a proper fully covered stadium. We wouldn't have to sink so many millions into underground concrete bunkers for car parking and ancillary facilities that would otherwise be built at ground level.

If the site were bigger........  the crowds could exit safely from the stadium and we wouldn't force the people of West Belfast to be held hostage on match days by closing one of Belfast's arterial routes, the Andytown Road. Or close down the new Belfast Rapid Transport system that is due to go down the Andytown Road.

If the site were bigger........  we would get the proper 40k, fully covered, fully seated stadium that this project was meant to provide. Not the 38k, 3/4 covered mutant that they're trying to peddle now.

If the site were bigger........  the long term running costs of the stadium would be cheaper, as we'd be able to hold far more non-sporting events such as concerts to cover future running costs.

If the site were bigger........  the stadium could be built using the near universal bowl stadium design that allows more bars, restaurants, conference facilities, etc to be built. Again decreasing long term running costs. The architects themselves have admitted that they couldn't do the optimal bowl design, or provide a roof at the Andytown Rd side because the site is too constrained.

If the site were bigger........  the deepest stand wouldn't be behind the Andytown goals, but would be in the main stands along each side, allowing more people to get optimal views, not substandard ones behind the goals.


But the site isn't bigger.....
It's time to take the funding elsewhere and build it on a site that is big enough.

Fecking hell. Three years later and not a fecking thing of any worth has changed since. I'll be back again to post the blindingly obvious again next year.
Title: Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:07:24 PM
Quote from: snatter on October 29, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
Quote from: nintythree on October 29, 2010, 01:13:14 AM
The green light may only be 3 weeks away. Days really!

perhaps,  but just watch Poots and co throwing every possible delay against it at the planning stage.
For an insight, just look at how they delayed a decision for the Bryansford, County Down application.

I hate to say I told you so. But I did. Panned out pretty much as predicted. From 2010. The site that's too small made it easy for them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:31:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
Well surely if the new plans feature a downsized capacity the stadium can be built? Why the need to expand? Mid 30k is sufficient - surely if need be they can convert seating areas to standing to increase capacity? And anything above that - Croke Park can be used. Of course the site is restrained but too much has been pumped into it for there to be a u turn - it'd be a scandal and no politician would back it

No, they can't just slap a roof on the uncovered stand - it's too close to surrounding housing, specifically the apartments blocks on the Andersonstown Road. They had to drop that proposal as part of the planning permission application.

It's not a question of expanding. The original tender was for a 40k stadium. The only reason capacity keeps getting downwardly revised is that the site is to small. The capacity was dropped to appease residents.

I note you haven't addressed any other points.

As for it would be a scandal. Are you serious???? It's a scandal already, and one that costs millions each year they persist with the half baked notion of spending once in a century funding on a third rate stadium. On a fifth rate site.

The GAA should never have run with Casement. If they'd picked any other site, big enough for a fully covered stadium, properly designed to maximise views for most spectators, and with enough surrounding space for safe dispersal, it would have been finished by now. Think about that this summer with rain pissing down, while rugby and soccer are sitting pretty.
I didn't mention a roof? Not all of Croke Park is covered and it doesn't prevent it being one of the top stadia in Europe. It also rains in Dublin.

I'm not pro or anti casement btw, if I'd my way the Maze would have been used. At this stage I'd be happy for a reduced capacity stadium with a reduced height that doesn't impact on the MORA residents. Funny as pointed out the whole egress/W Belfast public transport corridor seemingly weren't issues for the old Casement - and that rapid transport system has been in the pipeline a good 15 years at least

Let's hear your proposal for a site that meets the needs of a new stadium where the specification can be met? All well and good picking holes in Casement (of which there are many) let's hear the alternative?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 30, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.

My own suggestion was Musgrave Park. Not averse to Lough Foreshore either. GAA should think about holding beauty contest for councils that want it, best overall package gets it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:33:21 PM
Quote from: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

I do see an easy solution.

Get talking to the Alliance, Sinn Fein and SDLP on Belfast City Council.

Tell them that we'd like to develop a genuine exemplar landmark 40k, fully covered stadium in Musgrave Park.
If necesary, the development could be on some sort of partnership basis.

Inform them that if the council can't provide the site on agreeable terms, then we will take our stadium development elsewhere, eg Dungannon.

Emphasise the economic gains that having such a stadium would have for Belfast, eg GAA events, International Rules, Concerts, Conferences and the Rugby World Cup.

If Alliance/Belfast City Council don't co-operate, then run a beauty contest amongst locations that would like the investment. See what we can get in return, eg sites, infrastructure, facilitating development, etc.

Bump
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 25, 2013, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen.

I agree that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast should be found.
Ideally, if Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls. 

Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement is ideally suited.
Politically a more neutral location, it would also attract more non-match day income.
It is much bigger site, allowing a truly exemplar design 40k fully covered stadium to be developed.
Something really tall and high impact to advertise the GAA and Irish dimension to our city.

It is big enough to allow crowds to exit the stadium and disperse without having to close neighbouring arterial routes. And closer to train stations as well.

Car parking and other ancilliary building can be done at ground level, not by building expensive underground concrete bunkers.

Bump
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:32:46 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 30, 2013, 12:07:01 PM
Some highly critical comments on Casement's poor "Optimum Viewing Circles" from somebody who appears to know what they're talking about on an architecture forum

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

Quote

I actually thought that once the GAA appointed Populous to design Casement Park stadium I thought we'd get a truly great stadium as these guys have so much experience in sport stadium design.

The first thing that jumped out at me is the fact that the stadium has no continuity. None of the stands are the same size, not one, even all the four corners are different sizes. To me this just looks silly and will take away from the aesthetics of any stadium. Even Croke Park and the Aviva look terrible, and they have unity on three sides.
The fact that the Andersonstown Road Stand is so big shouts out to be that they needed to increase the capacity to get it up to 40,000. So they just kept going back until the numbers added up. This is terrible design. The viewing distance from the back of this stand will be far to large.

In the case of a gaelic football the preferred viewing distance should be no more than 150m between the extreme corner of the field and spectator's eye, with an absolute maximum of 190m. Setting out these distances from the extreme viewing positions, such as the diagonally opposed corners of a playing field, gives a preferred viewing zone and their average configuration suggests a circle struck from the centre spot on the field, generally referred to as the 'optimum viewing circle. This circle in the case of football and rugby would have a radius of 90m.

This might sound complicated stuff but i'm sure the people at Populous know this, and if they don't they are in the wrong business. What this means is that well over half the capacity of the Andersonstown Road Stand will be outside the optimum viewing circle. The largest stands should run along the side of the pitch in the long direction.

This isn't good enough for a modern stadium.




Quote

It will definitely not be a modern stadium if the entire thing is not roofed. I hate having a ticket in Croke Park on the lower tier of the cusack stand when it rains, and lets face it we live in Ireland .. It rains

Read the above about optimal viewing circles
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: snatter on April 29, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

  • closer to the railway stations
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts
  • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
  • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
  • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
  • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)

All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.

More Musgrave advantages
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 11, 2016, 02:48:45 PM
Musgrave is a serious option.  I honestly think Dungannon is equally a serious option.  If they built a stadium in Dungannon it would help seriously regenerate that area west of the river Bann.  ID fix up Casement for Antrim in the same manner as Armagh has been done and build at Dungannon.   You could have all the concerts, you would want there. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 02:52:05 PM
Quote from: snatter on March 11, 2016, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 11, 2016, 11:19:31 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 11, 2016, 11:16:04 AM
I'll tell u what i know... there seems to be a few guys on here that are an expert on Stadium Design and know the RED GUIDE inside and out. I have spoke with a few consultants regarding Casement and the capacity and room for capacity was not a big issue, there was/is room to build a 45K seater stadium but local residents complained about the size of the stands over shadowing their homes so GAA and Designers decided to reduce the size of the stands so it wouldn't have as big an impact as previous design. The biggest factor was the egress time, this is the total time in which all spectators can, in normal conditions, leave an area of viewing accommodation and enter into a free flowing exit system. It does not include the time taken to negotiate the entire exit route. This must happen within 8 minutes of the announcement but Casement Park cannot accommodate therefore the free flowing exit system is inadequate.

Now the strange thing is when the old ground was full to capacity (think it was 32,600) it probably didn't comply with the RED GUIDE safety measures either but there was never a word about it, the best thing going for Casement was that it was/is GAA and there is no segregation with their fans. If it was too accommodate soccer with segregation then it potentially could have been a disaster if trouble was to flare up, gladly we never experienced anything.

Regarding the funding and if it's available to another venue I'm not 100% sure on who said what but i was always under the impression from the Maze was turned down that it was Casement Park or nowt...No other ground/venue was to be considered and if Casement didn't happen we (GAA) lost the grant.

Who peddled the idea that it was Casement or nowt? Was it the Ulster Council?

AFAIK the money was ring fenced for a one off stadium development, where that was was to be a decision for the Ulster Council..

That side of things Johnney i'm not sure on TBH.

Fecking hell. Why does this myth, this utter untruth still keep floating around.
Read slowly:

THE FUNDING CAME WITH A CONDITION THAT IT WAS TO ONLY BE USED TO BUILD ONE STADIUM.

THERE WERE NO CONDITIONS ABOUT WHERE THAT STADIUM HAD TO BE.

ANYONE THAT SAYS DIFFERENTLY IS TALKING OUT OF THEIR SPHINCTER.

Fuc*ing hell cool your jets, does anyone know the truth and can they prove it here not that i give two fiddlers whether it's for Casement or any other ground. It was the actual design i paid attention too and not the location of it. BTW i like your SPHINCTER comment
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 30, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.

My own suggestion was Musgrave Park. Not averse to Lough Foreshore either. GAA should think about holding beauty contest for councils that want it, best overall package gets it.
And residents of Stockman's Lane? Not a given that BCC will just hand over land for free either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 03:09:33 PM
Quote from: rrhf on March 11, 2016, 02:48:45 PM
Musgrave is a serious option.  I honestly think Dungannon is equally a serious option.  If they built a stadium in Dungannon it would help seriously regenerate that area west of the river Bann.  ID fix up Casement for Antrim in the same manner as Armagh has been done and build at Dungannon.   You could have all the concerts, you would want there.

Totally agree.

I'd add that Dungannon / Belfast should compete to get it. Concerts, conferences and matches would give a hell of an economic boost worth fighting over.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 11, 2016, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: snatter on March 11, 2016, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: snatter on September 30, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.

My own suggestion was Musgrave Park. Not averse to Lough Foreshore either. GAA should think about holding beauty contest for councils that want it, best overall package gets it.
And residents of Stockman's Lane? Not a given that BCC will just hand over land for free either.

Residents much fewer in number, and much much further way from stadium than in Casement, that's for sure! Stadium would be on extreme fringe away from residents. Its's a very big site, allowing egress and exit with minimal impact. Would be furtehr away from housing than Twickenham stadium for example.

Lough foreshore eliminates problem completely. As would a Dungannon site, although the Dungannon site would lack the wider social infrastucture, large number of hotels, etc to maiximise the overall economic return. One thin's for sure, we shouldn't site it anywhere without the local council coming up with an enticing offer in return.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 11, 2016, 04:47:35 PM
But surely Stockman's Lane will have the same issues especially around the rapid transport. You're still going to have 40k people pouring out onto an already busy arterial route beside a major junction. The other two sites (Dungannon anyway) should be non-runners
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 12, 2016, 07:57:55 AM
Dungannon needs a hotel. Commercial opportunity for the gaa. In a revision of transport and infrastructure dungannon is potentially the most adaptable town. Dominated by serious industry the hotel would be booked out 45 weeks a year. Concerts, exhibitions and events would be relatively non invasive. If there's to be a 40k stadium a stadium town like dungannon would be adaptable central and allow for more diverse use of the stadium than any other site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gold on March 12, 2016, 08:51:45 AM
Stockmans Lane is already a very busy road but granted it is close to motorway and there is plenty of room in Musgrave.
Residents across the road would not be happy with a spaceship being built in front of them, significantly reducing the value of their properties.

Musgrave is a park that is busy every day, year round,, well used by locals for dog walking etc. There aren't many in the city and im not sure it could be justified to close it and put a stadium there that will be used a few times a year

Casement could and should be fixed for Antrim...like Armagh as someone suggested. Getting out of Casement on busy big match days always felt a bit unsafe...whole ground going out onto mostly the one road (although some at owenvarragh first)

Why not go to Dungannon or what have you? Central for Ulster and if we got there for an Ulster Final id prefer to go there on a Motorway than a camel trek to Clones

Quite embarrassing at the moment in Antrim welcoming teams to Corrigan Park. Great pitch and club but thats what it is...a club with grassy banks to stand on not a county ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 12, 2016, 09:44:02 AM
The key to a forward thinking stadium in Ireland north or south should be the ability to have a retractable roof at some stage in the future. That couldn't happen in casement. Could happen elsewhere. Year round games. Ulster Club championships without the mud baths. Concerts in November Etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 12, 2016, 11:08:14 AM
I'm disillusioned with the west Belfast location and the lack of goodwill shown which has turned this into a political football. If the people don't want a sports stadium or will be a continuous thorn in event planning it is time to move on. I feel some sympathy for Antrim gaa people but they have to show they deserve it and are serious about their ambitions in the city and county. Zero evidence except for the recent coup at county board, that as a county they are serious about development.  Why should they get a gift wrapped stadium from others and I mean taxpayers and The rest of the gaa who will maintain the running costs. The underlying problem points to  a division 3 approach to their development within the gaa and that is the danger which could leave this a white elephant. To plant a stadium within a community who appear to be anti gaa at worst is probably wrong for that community and wrong for the gaa strategically. No shame it hasn't worked, let the stadium be a force for good in dungannon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 12, 2016, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 12, 2016, 11:33:28 AM
The stadium is not going to Dungannon. People will not travel to Dungannon to see One Direction.
The stadium is not being built for Antrim GAA people. Indeed, we actually lose out in this land grab. Yes, we might get to play our inter-county championship games there, if it suits. Thanks a bunch.
It is nice to see that highlighting serious oversights in health and safety is being put down as "lack of goodwill".
Yiz hate the gah up there. Too busy stealing culchie's cars and sniffing glue  :-\
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 12, 2016, 12:08:11 PM
Couldn't be more condescending if you tried rrhf. A hell of a lot more Antrim clubs have competed in all ireland senior finals and semifinals than tyrone. Why are they any less entitled to have a modern 
stadium than Armagh, Newry, Derry, Omagh etc?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 12, 2016, 04:22:18 PM
Apology County not clubs. Clubs don't need the stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 12, 2016, 11:08:51 PM
The idea that a stadium in Dungannon would hold concerts is ridiculous. The big promoters aren't booking 40,000 capacity concerts in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 11:11:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2016, 11:08:51 PM
The idea that a stadium in Dungannon would hold concerts is ridiculous. The big promoters aren't booking 40,000 capacity concerts in the middle of nowhere.

Was this money given to MCD or the GAA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 12, 2016, 11:16:27 PM
Ireland's not that big y'know. 40 miles from Belfast to Dungannon. And Newell Stores are deadly.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2016, 11:44:59 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 12, 2016, 11:16:27 PM
Ireland's not that big y'know. 40 miles from Belfast to Dungannon. And Newell Stores are deadly.

Dungannon is a shit hole, not happening there or anywhere else, and why people keep bringing up outside Belfast venues is on crack :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 13, 2016, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 11:11:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2016, 11:08:51 PM
The idea that a stadium in Dungannon would hold concerts is ridiculous. The big promoters aren't booking 40,000 capacity concerts in the middle of nowhere.

Was this money given to MCD or the GAA?
The GAA are not concert promoters. Any gigs in Croke Park have been MCD or Aiken. That's how it works.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 13, 2016, 12:19:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2016, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 11:11:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2016, 11:08:51 PM
The idea that a stadium in Dungannon would hold concerts is ridiculous. The big promoters aren't booking 40,000 capacity concerts in the middle of nowhere.

Was this money given to MCD or the GAA?
The GAA are not concert promoters. Any gigs in Croke Park have been MCD or Aiken. That's how it works.

So if the GAA are not concert promoters who shouldn't the stadium suit GAA people?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 13, 2016, 12:34:39 AM
This is actually getting boring now, as Hardstation says West Belfast (Casement Park) or nothing. Wont happen anywhere else so no point in talking about it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 13, 2016, 07:34:55 AM
I have feck all interests in concerts but sane must make money and its in Meath. Hard station talked of concerts in this thing for the last4 years. Dungannon can be the first gaa hospitality village. Hasn't a credible rival,
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on March 13, 2016, 07:44:48 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 13, 2016, 12:34:39 AM
This is actually getting boring now, as Hardstation says West Belfast (Casement Park) or nothing. Wont happen anywhere else so no point in talking about it.

Surely there must be some sort of legal case to be made that disputes the arrangement whereby the money has to be spent on that particular plot of land? If that particular plot is already costing a ridiculous amount of money even before a sod it turned, then surely there is grounds to dispute the allocation of money being tied to that particular site. I think the desperation from some quarters to plough on with this at Casement restricts any sort of debate about abandoning the scheme and moving on to a meaningful discussion about a (most likely cheaper) alternative elsewhere. The argument of Casement or nowhere is getting boring as this drags on and on and on. I think it's time that the option of somewhere else was at least investigated and the legality of the decision to ensure its Casement or nowhere is questioned!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 13, 2016, 11:35:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2016, 12:19:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2016, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2016, 11:11:33 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on March 12, 2016, 11:08:51 PM
The idea that a stadium in Dungannon would hold concerts is ridiculous. The big promoters aren't booking 40,000 capacity concerts in the middle of nowhere.

Was this money given to MCD or the GAA?
The GAA are not concert promoters. Any gigs in Croke Park have been MCD or Aiken. That's how it works.

So if the GAA are not concert promoters who shouldn't the stadium suit GAA people?
I don't understand that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 13, 2016, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: rrhf on March 13, 2016, 07:34:55 AM
I have feck all interests in concerts but sane must make money and its in Meath. Hard station talked of concerts in this thing for the last4 years. Dungannon can be the first gaa hospitality village. Hasn't a credible rival,
Slane isn't a purpose built venue - it's a field - it doesn't need concerts, or anything else, to justify its existence. And Dungannon isn't Slane Castle. Even then, Slane isn't even averaging one concert a year. Basically my point is that you don't decide where to build a GAA ground on the basis of attracting big concerts, because it's just not going to be a big reliable earner.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 13, 2016, 11:47:43 AM
You're seriously underestimating our love of c&w.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 13, 2016, 02:42:44 PM
Country festivals, rugby World Cup, Ulster finals, Ulster club championship, Beyoncé etc. All those participants have heard of Dungannon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on March 14, 2016, 01:29:25 PM
Casement Park: 38,000 capacity 'could not be safely evacuated'

AN emergency services assessment seen by Irish News has suggested only 18,000 people could safely evacuate a 38,000-seater Casement Park if the Andersonstown Road was closed.

Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on exit roads.

It is the latest twist in controversy surrounding the £77 million redevelopment project in west Belfast that has been plagued with problems and delays.

Last week the new president of the GAA's Ulster Council, Michael Hasson, told The Irish News there is "not a lot of give" in plans to accommodate 38,000 people at a new Casement Park.

A fresh planning application is expected in September, nearly two years after approval was overturned in the High Court when a judge identified failures in the environmental impact assessment.

A legal challenge was brought by residents who object to the size of the proposed stadium. They maintain the Andersonstown site can only cater for up to 25,000 spectators.

A Stormont inquiry is also continuing into safety concerns and whether the original proposals properly considered emergency exiting arrangements.

It came after a safety expert told MLAs the proposed design could not be evacuated safely in certain emergencies - and warned of the potential for a tragedy like the Hillsborough disaster, a claim dismissed by the GAA.

Concerns have focused on how the stadium would cope if the Andersonstown Road, where most spectators would exit the ground, was closed or blocked off.

Officials from the PSNI, ambulance and fire service together examined this scenario in January this year, documents uncovered by The Irish News reveal.

The assessment said: "The unique nature of the site indicates that it is reasonably foreseeable that the Andersonstown Road could be closed due to an emergency."

Examples cited were a suspect device, a fatal road crash or a gas leak, which could lead to an exclusion cordon of up to 400m being put in place.

If an incident happened, they warned that a 200m cordon could prevent spectators leaving via the junctions with Mooreland Park and Owenvarragh Park

In the joint assessment, emergency officials calculated how many people could be safely evacuated if the Andersonstown Road was blocked – the 'emergency evacuation safe capacity'.

They examined the possible width of other exits and the impact of issues such as parked cars on residential streets surrounding the venue.

The assessment said the maximum emergency exit time for the stadium should be eight minutes.

However, their 'best-case' outcome allowed 18,264 people to be evacuated within the time frame, while the figure dropped to 11,239 in the 'worst-case' scenario.

"This does not account for funnelling which would occur along Mooreland Crescent, which would not be permitted and would also have to be designed out," the review said.

The 'preliminary planning assumptions' document was obtained by The Irish News through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request.

Officials also highlighted other issues with safety at the site in the event of an emergency.

Fire engines cannot access stadium entrances at Mooreland and Owenvarragh in various instances where cars are parked on both sides of the streets.

They also appear to dismiss a possibility that police could close the Andersonstown Road in advance of large matches.

"Existing legislation does not permit the PSNI to pre-plan to close roads to facilitate events in or on a public road. Therefore an event plan should not assume that this can occur," the document stated.

The paper was circulated and discussed during a meeting in January of the Safety Technical Group (STG), set up to advise on the plans.

The group concluded that without further information on the stadium design they were "not in a position to make any assessment of a safe capacity".


Ulster GAA plans to this week announce the beginning of a consultation on new plans for redeveloping Casement.

A spokesman said the proposed stadium's capacity has not been finalised.

"The capacity of the provincial stadium will be determined following completion of an environmental impact assessment, public consultation and consultation with statutory consultees and key stakeholders such as the Safety Technical Group, PSNI and others," he said.

"Until these consultation processes are complete and detailed environmental, transport and socio-economic assessments are complete the specific capacity for the provincial stadium cannot be determined."

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on March 14, 2016, 01:32:56 PM
(http://s16.postimg.org/ovw6dzyb9/new.jpg)

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on March 14, 2016, 02:25:32 PM
With all these health and safety concerns surrounding Casement, its really hard to see how a 38K stadium could be built in what ultimately is a cul-de-sac with only the Andersonstown road as an entrance and exit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on March 15, 2016, 10:56:54 AM
Sell the ground to developers, Redevelop Corrigan Park, lets move on

BTW, get the CoE sorted while your at it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 15, 2016, 12:11:26 PM
In all seriousness how the f**K did the old ground get away with a full house as it obviously was a major H&S issue but never seemed to be noticed by the SAG groups and Emergency Services but when a new Stadium proposal comes in apparently it can only facilitate just of 18k...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2016, 06:03:07 PM
Round and round the magic roundabout
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/casement-park-new-community-consultation-launched-for-redevelopment-34546011.html

Perhaps they'll offer a discount for small people and have Lilliputian seats to fit them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on April 22, 2016, 02:29:47 PM
I see the Feile organisers seem to have a "lobby group", "Gaels For Casement". They must be looking to use Casement for their events.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 22, 2016, 02:34:50 PM
Ulster Council looking inputs in general;


https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HCLHGBS (https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HCLHGBS)

Right at the very end you're asked if you support the Casement project or not!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on May 22, 2016, 08:29:28 AM
It was inevitable that Spotlight or some other media outlet would fill the vacuum left by the mess. It seems that there might indeed be a fed slightly reddish faces and that the residents might have a few more sympathy votes by the time the programme finishes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on May 24, 2016, 11:04:28 PM
Interesting perspective so far.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nigel White on May 24, 2016, 11:12:32 PM
Shocking piece of scaremongering by BBC It would seem BBC is trying to polarise local opinion in advance of the local consultation
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
There is no way a 38,000 can be built without demolishing houses,which the occupants won't agree to.Disturbing that the GAA and DCAL Minister were prepared to disregard GAA members safety.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Beffs on May 24, 2016, 11:16:18 PM
The GAA can't force anyone to sell their homes, just to build a stadium FFS. Think they are going a wee bit over the top with yer man in the wheel chair, facing the prospect of being kicked out of his own home.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:22:00 PM
Seems to be an ego vanity project,,even considering demolishing houses,without even telling the residents it was an option being considered. How often would a 38,000 stadium be filled or even nearly filled? Once a year maximum.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 24, 2016, 11:22:44 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 24, 2016, 11:21:35 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
There is no way a 38,000 can be built without demolishing houses,which the occupants won't agree to.Disturbing that the GAA and DCAL Minister were prepared to disregard GAA members safety.
That's the bit that annoys me.

Nothing new in that programme tbh.
Thought that myself. Ulster Council still not to be trusted I'd say.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2016, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
There is no way a 38,000 can be built without demolishing houses,which the occupants won't agree to.Disturbing that the GAA and DCAL Minister were prepared to disregard GAA members safety.

In a normal country, where a large public amenity needs a couple of houses demolished to improve safety, the public authorities would simply acquire the said houses and demolish them. They have cleared away entire districts in Belfast, taking over a couple of houses shouldn't be the end of the world.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on May 24, 2016, 11:30:20 PM
More than just the Ulster Council pushing the 'FFS ...lets just get her built' agenda

Antrim CB are hand in hand with them which I think is very strange on the basis that we simply don't have a fanbase to fill an 8000 seater never mind a 38000. Playing in a 38000 stadium in front of 2 or 3 thousand spectators will not suit us. So why the push to get her built I'm wondering?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 24, 2016, 11:39:44 PM
Money available from Stormont as Long Mesh proposal was stymied by the crew from the 17th Century.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 24, 2016, 11:41:33 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 24, 2016, 11:30:20 PM
More than just the Ulster Council pushing the 'FFS ...lets just get her built' agenda

Antrim CB are hand in hand with them which I think is very strange on the basis that we simply don't have a fanbase to fill an 8000 seater never mind a 38000. Playing in a 38000 stadium in front of 2 or 3 thousand spectators will not suit us. So why the push to get her built I'm wondering?
Pure vanity project for the likes of yer man in the UC, Antrim County Board etc. The fact that they have engaged in skullduggery in the past shows they were prepared to steamroller this project and hope the locals didn't notice. Will be some spot when there is 1500 people in it. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on May 25, 2016, 12:29:50 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on May 24, 2016, 11:12:32 PM
Shocking piece of scaremongering by BBC It would seem BBC is trying to polarise local opinion in advance of the local consultation

Don't know if it's scaremongering or not but let's consider this scenario: Springsteen is playing to 38,000 over 4 nights. The recently reconstituted UVF decide to give them westies a bit of the ole medicine with a 1000lb bomb at the entrance to that Casement monstrosity. Stadium needs evacuated in 8 mins.  One of the first things the PSNI does is close the M1 because that's exactly where the culchies will be directed and reach their safety.  I'm no expert but surely a huge pedestrian entrance/exit is planned for that roundabout?  How often it would be used is another issue.  It seems to me that the concert goers\ulster final attendees would be in a better position than the residents in Slemish Way.

The GAA have taken an arrogant stance but it seems to me that underneath all of this there's an undercurrent of not really wanting them in Belfast.  A green field site north of Newry makes far more sense. It will eventually become Northern Ireland's second city and better suited to deal with nationalists' commercial interests.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 12:33:58 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 25, 2016, 12:03:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 24, 2016, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
There is no way a 38,000 can be built without demolishing houses,which the occupants won't agree to.Disturbing that the GAA and DCAL Minister were prepared to disregard GAA members safety.

In a normal country, where a large public amenity needs a couple of houses demolished to improve safety, the public authorities would simply acquire the said houses and demolish them. They have cleared away entire districts in Belfast, taking over a couple of houses shouldn't be the end of the world.
Fair enough. Why haven't they approached people about doing this then? Even today, Stephen McGeehan said they had no intention in doing so.

When the thing started, they did their plan; it wouldn't fit, but they decided to bluster their way through and do not want to admit this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on May 25, 2016, 12:36:26 AM
Ulster council are taking the Casement Park project " on the road " to afford people of west Belfast to come and look at the proposed project and get their suggestions. The " suggestion box" on the television news tonight was a bit of a cringe but UC have realised that there were mistakes made by them and others on the first go round and they at the very least want to try and mend some fractured relationships. For this at least they are to be commended but from now on there can't be any more dirty tricks from any side.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that a 38,000 capacity stadium will only be built to house an annual ulster final. There will be other sports using the stadium, concerts, conferences etc ala Croke Park Limited.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Beffs on May 25, 2016, 12:53:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 24, 2016, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
There is no way a 38,000 can be built without demolishing houses,which the occupants won't agree to.Disturbing that the GAA and DCAL Minister were prepared to disregard GAA members safety.

In a normal country, where a large public amenity needs a couple of houses demolished to improve safety, the public authorities would simply acquire the said houses and demolish them. They have cleared away entire districts in Belfast, taking over a couple of houses shouldn't be the end of the world.

There is a big difference in a local authority getting a compulsory purchase order, to widen a road and a sporting body being allowed demolish an entire neighbourhood, just to enlarge a stadium.

If the GAA think it's worth their while to make attractive offers to all the home owners in the area & buy up all the houses, that are in the way of expansion, no one is stopping them. But to force people to give up their homes? That would be a PR disaster of epic proportions & there is no way the GAA would be let do it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 25, 2016, 09:13:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Casement Park isn't an Antrim stadium anymore, its an Ulster Council stadium, the needs of Antrim were thrown to the side years ago when this money became available.

38K isn't big enough for an Ulster Final and is too big for 99% of other games in Ulster, plus if you take the opinion of the experts on Stadia safety (even Paul Scott aside) the use of the pitch as an evacuation point doesn't seem to be common practice and it would be a disgrace for the Ulster Council to propose it as a solution.
The site isn't fit for purpose, move it to another grey field site in the Greater Belfast area.

Yer man McGeehan looked a bit perturbed when the confidential plan appeared.....

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lenny on May 25, 2016, 09:19:36 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 25, 2016, 09:13:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Casement Park isn't an Antrim stadium anymore, its an Ulster Council stadium, the needs of Antrim were thrown to the side years ago when this money became available.

38K isn't big enough for an Ulster Final and is too big for 99% of other games in Ulster, plus if you take the opinion of the experts on Stadia safety (even Paul Scott aside) the use of the pitch as an evacuation point doesn't seem to be common practice and it would be a disgrace for the Ulster Council to propose it as a solution.
The site isn't fit for purpose, move it to another grey field site in the Greater Belfast area.

Yer man McGeehan looked a bit perturbed when the confidential plan appeared.....

Why not a green field site? Those grey fields aren't much good for football.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

The Spotlight programme was shite.  Nothing new in it except planting the mistaken idea in people's heads that the GAA are going to knock their houses down.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on May 25, 2016, 10:38:00 AM
Why don't the GAA offer silly money to the residents to which they require their property to build the stadium, money talks and if they're offered a lot more than their property is worth they'll bite their arm off for it (Money talks). The stupid thing was how the drawings with their plans was leaked out and how them BBC hoors got their hands on it. From a fan and a GAA man's perspective i'm disappointed that the safety of the fans could have been jeopardised to push it through and how the old stadium got away with the crowds that have been there in the past when the ground was clearly not adequate.
From an Engineering perspective there is a project that needs constructed and to deliver this project you draw up a set of plans and options to carry this out, clearly in this scheme there are not many options left and it's clear what need to be done to get this over the line...Buy the fecking houses and give the people more than the house is worth and i guarantee no-one will refuse it...This is morally wrong but this is how things work, it happens all the time. A new road needs constructed and the land is required to build it but a farmer that owns it doesn't want to sell...the project gets held up for a while then the Government take over and just take it for a minimal fee...(that's not right either but happens all the time)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on May 25, 2016, 11:15:42 AM
Surely CPOing the houses that are affected will still not solve the problem of crowd egress? Unless they buy off all of Owenvarragh and Moreland Park..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2016, 11:17:39 AM
Didn't the Munster rubby crowd buy and demolish a whole street of unique looking houses when they were extending Thomond Pk.?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 25, 2016, 11:29:18 AM
Anyone know when we'll see the new plans?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2016, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: Beffs on May 25, 2016, 12:53:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 24, 2016, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2016, 11:14:15 PM
There is no way a 38,000 can be built without demolishing houses,which the occupants won't agree to.Disturbing that the GAA and DCAL Minister were prepared to disregard GAA members safety.

In a normal country, where a large public amenity needs a couple of houses demolished to improve safety, the public authorities would simply acquire the said houses and demolish them. They have cleared away entire districts in Belfast, taking over a couple of houses shouldn't be the end of the world.

There is a big difference in a local authority getting a compulsory purchase order, to widen a road and a sporting body being allowed demolish an entire neighbourhood, just to enlarge a stadium.

If the GAA think it's worth their while to make attractive offers to all the home owners in the area & buy up all the houses, that are in the way of expansion, no one is stopping them. But to force people to give up their homes? That would be a PR disaster of epic proportions & there is no way the GAA would be let do it.

Several people would probably sell if given an attractive offer, but if a single house was holding things up then like the road it should be CPOd. This is a facility that will be used by hundreds of thousands of people over the next decade and one person should not be able to obstruct that, just as they should not be allowed obstruct a road.

I didn't see the programme, but the the devil is in the detail as to exactly how many houses are needed. The removal of only one house would provide quite a wide passage, I'd say 3 or 4 would make a good difference at different locations.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

The Spotlight programme was shite.  Nothing new in it except planting the mistaken idea in people's heads that the GAA are going to knock their houses down.

I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2016, 01:22:09 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

The Spotlight programme was shite.  Nothing new in it except planting the mistaken idea in people's heads that the GAA are going to knock their houses down.

I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day
The likes of McGeehan won't be near the place for an Antrim county final so he'll only see it when it's a football final and pretty full. Glass of champagne before your prawn sandwich, sir?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on May 25, 2016, 01:55:02 PM
They could play league finals in Belfast. Why not?
38k would suit more than CP does.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on May 25, 2016, 02:32:00 PM
I'm not going up there to watch a league final.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 25, 2016, 02:32:00 PM
I'm not going up there to watch a league final.

You're not welcome anyway!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:22:31 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

The Spotlight programme was shite.  Nothing new in it except planting the mistaken idea in people's heads that the GAA are going to knock their houses down.

I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day

That would be a "I don't know" then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 04:16:09 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:22:31 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day

That would be a "I don't know" then.

No ... its would be a 'from what I can tell'. Youre implying I'm wrong so I'm expecting you to clear things up for me.

Heres a quote from https://www.facebook.com/casementpark/ thats led to my 'confusion'

QuoteUlster GAA, the Central Council of the GAA and Antrim GAA remain firmly committed to the development of a new Provincial GAA Stadium at Casement Park, Belfast.
The Project Board is continuing to work closely with the planning and delivery teams to prepare a revised scheme for the Casement Park Stadium that will:

● Develop and deliver a world class stadium in Belfast for the GAA
● Enhance the local Community that the new Casement Park will serve
● Deliver a facility suitable for hosting Club, County, Provincial and National fixtures
● Contribute to the economic and social development of Belfast and Ulster

World class/suitable for Provincial and National fixtures = no less than 35K+ in my eyes (although I'd like to understand how a 35K+ stadium is suitable for club games myself)

NOW ... I'm ready for you to set me straight on everything.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on May 25, 2016, 04:30:44 PM
Quote from: bannside on April 26, 2016, 10:30:33 AM
Our club got a report back from our delegate at County Committee meeting last night about recent activity.

Dunsilly coming along fine, and should be open for business by the end of the summer. Should be more than adequate for our interim needs - credit to all involved.

Casement Park is a different matter. Details were given to club delegates about the offer that is currently on the table from Ulster, and going by the mood that was reported in the room, Antrim officials will have great difficulty selling anything resembling that to the clubs. Unless Ulster come up with a much improved offer that reflects our position as landlords of the grounds, then unfortunately our delegate said he sees trouble ahead.

Antrim clubs are really only beginning to get a full picture of the insulting package that was on offer, and there was quite a lot of anger in the room. If Ulster are looking for their dream stadium then they need to start upping the ante and treating Antrim with more respect.

If that dosent happen I do really see this coming to a sorry end.


One delegate, apparently, was adamant we dont need it at all, and if we sell Casement we can build a proper Dunsilly and tidy up a couple of county grounds with a new and improved facilities. The majority opposed this in favour of a proper a fair deal from Ulster but insist this is now a priority.

Interesting Times.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 04:16:09 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 03:22:31 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day

That would be a "I don't know" then.

No ... its would be a 'from what I can tell'. Youre implying I'm wrong so I'm expecting you to clear things up for me.

Heres a quote from https://www.facebook.com/casementpark/ thats led to my 'confusion'

QuoteUlster GAA, the Central Council of the GAA and Antrim GAA remain firmly committed to the development of a new Provincial GAA Stadium at Casement Park, Belfast.
The Project Board is continuing to work closely with the planning and delivery teams to prepare a revised scheme for the Casement Park Stadium that will:

● Develop and deliver a world class stadium in Belfast for the GAA
● Enhance the local Community that the new Casement Park will serve
● Deliver a facility suitable for hosting Club, County, Provincial and National fixtures
● Contribute to the economic and social development of Belfast and Ulster

World class/suitable for Provincial and National fixtures = no less than 35K+ in my eyes (although I'd like to understand how a 35K+ stadium is suitable for club games myself)

NOW ... I'm ready for you to set me straight on everything.

That Facebook post is from November 2015...things may have changed since then ;).  What is Antrim GAA anyway, the clubs, county board, players, supporters????  National Fixture...sure that could be Antrim v Waterford in a Div 4 League game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 05:33:09 PM
Any chance you could answer my quest for knowledge AQMP? You're leaving me hanging!! ::)

Almost as if you're as clueless as meself
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on May 26, 2016, 10:54:50 PM
How much has this fiasco cost the GAA to date? Or is the money spent so far coming out of the government funding.

It's time for the GAA to pull the plug on the casement development. They're not going to get what they want built on the Andersonstown Road. Time to bite the bullet and move on.

According to Caral Ni Chuilin the government money is only available for a site in West Belfast only, no other location.

They should put the stadium to the old site of the St Patricks Boys home off the Monagh Bypass. No neighbours to annoy, plenty of space, less traffic, not a busy arterial route compared to the A'town road, located less then 1.5 miles from Casement. From google maps there is plenty of room for a new stadium and more.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Monagh+By+Pass,+Belfast+BT11/@54.584359,-5.9972271,16z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x486106319742cdff:0x31a2fb1383f50190?hl=enm,

Sell Casement for housing put the money towards Antrim GAA, they could even build a mini Owenbeg 5-6k capacity on the same site as the new Stadium on the Monagh Bypass, keep antrim GAA happy, a stadium that will suit their needs be it county, club etc.

If there is enough space on the site or if not they could go into partnership with St Mary's CBS located beside the site, put in a few extra pitches, a 3G pitch make it a centre of excellence a Focal point of the GAA in Belfast which will be used everyday of the week beside Antrims home ground and the best stadium in Ulster. give the local kids something to aspire too. The amount of GAA clubs and especially schools within a 2/3 radius is crazy. 

Casement was never for the people of West Belfast or Antrim GAA but a facility like this could be.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on May 26, 2016, 11:38:30 PM
1. There won't be that much traffic at Antrim matches
2. Don't know but if "they" are the Ulster Council then it needs to point out to our government that its' hands are tied to an extent. It can only give Antrim GAA 11% support, it being one 9th of our province.

Personally I think it's dead in the water and the message is 'take yer bogball elsewhere' resonates.  Why go somewhere where you're not wanted?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on May 27, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Antrim can only be considered 1 of 9 because that's the way the GAA constitute themselves.  The site might be worth a few pounds? So what?

3. The government must consider what is best for the people of Northern Ireland. Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on May 27, 2016, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 26, 2016, 11:16:22 PM
Two points.
1. The amount of housing that has sprung up on the Glen Road in recent years is already putting it under traffic pressure.
2. How much would it cost to buy the required land at St. Pat's home, keeping in mind that they are getting Casement Park for nothing?

1. Yes during the week it can be busy, but the Andersonstown Road is always busy when they close it for matches as was the plan in the new Casement the Glen Road would be gridlock regardless where the stadium was.

2. God knows, don't even know who owns it, from what I can see the Antrim County Board just handed over their prize assett for nothing. Antrim GAA is owed so much by the Ulster Council and a white elephant on the Andersonstown Road is of no benefit to the locals, Antrim Gaels or The Ulster Council.

I'm sure the architect & solicitor fees already spent on Casement would've covered it. Add in the new costs of the next Judicial Review and the new stadium plans you could've built a stadium in South Belfast for less.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on May 27, 2016, 12:44:58 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 27, 2016, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on May 27, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Antrim can only be considered 1 of 9 because that's the way the GAA constitute themselves.  The site might be worth a few pounds? So what?

3. The government must consider what is best for the people of Northern Ireland. Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are irrelevant.
So what? The worth of the site isn't a kick in the balls of what the GAA have pledged to the project. In relation to the Casement project, why should Antrim accept a similar standing to counties who have offered nothing to the new stadium?

So you think Antrim GAA should be paid £Xm for the site and then, whenever a provincial ground is built somewhere, they should pay back £Ym as their contribution whenever they want to use it.  As a percentage how many £s have Antrim generated for the Ulster Council?  Stormont doesn't care how many GAA heads there are in Belfast.  As a priority where would the GAA feature in a straw poll of residents anywhere in Belfast?  Way way down the pecking order.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on May 27, 2016, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2016, 01:22:09 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

The Spotlight programme was shite.  Nothing new in it except planting the mistaken idea in people's heads that the GAA are going to knock their houses down.

I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day
The likes of McGeehan won't be near the place for an Antrim county final so he'll only see it when it's a football final and pretty full. Glass of champagne before your prawn sandwich, sir?

Aye, McGeehan is well known for serving champagne with prawn sandwiches at the Ballinderry Shamrocks meetings he chairs. You're well named.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 27, 2016, 11:11:27 PM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on May 27, 2016, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 25, 2016, 01:22:09 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Quote from: AQMP on May 25, 2016, 09:27:19 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on May 25, 2016, 07:31:38 AM
38K seater is TOTALLY wrong for Antrims needs. I think there is widespread agreement on that?
What does it say about our CB when they appear to be ignoring this fact and have jumped on the bandwagon rather than look for solution(s) that have our long term interests at the heart of their thinking?

Are the county board fully onside with a 38k seater stadium?

The Spotlight programme was shite.  Nothing new in it except planting the mistaken idea in people's heads that the GAA are going to knock their houses down.

I know they want a redeveloped Casement and they support the Ulster council .... so I'm 'assuming' they'd be happy with a 30K+ seater stadium. Please clear that up for me if you've something to suggest otherwise. Happy to admit I'm not close to the action on it other than picking up on social media feeds

Antrim need a stadium to suit their own fanbase with decent facilities and protection from the elements on one side of the pitch only ... like Owenbeg. We need nothing more than that.

To play in a top notch 30K+ seater stadium will be horrible for anyone playing with or watching Antrim. County finals will be the same .... give me atmosphere over a prawn sandwich any day
The likes of McGeehan won't be near the place for an Antrim county final so he'll only see it when it's a football final and pretty full. Glass of champagne before your prawn sandwich, sir?

Aye, McGeehan is well known for serving champagne with prawn sandwiches at the Ballinderry Shamrocks meetings he chairs. You're well named.
Ballinderry. Famously not in Antrim. Do call again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2016, 01:19:10 AM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/07/01/news/new-road-closure-powers-for-psni-in-casement-park-plans-586063/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on July 01, 2016, 08:38:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2016, 01:19:10 AM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/07/01/news/new-road-closure-powers-for-psni-in-casement-park-plans-586063/

Where there's a will there's a way.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on July 01, 2016, 09:00:25 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on May 27, 2016, 12:44:58 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 27, 2016, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on May 27, 2016, 12:10:41 AM
Antrim can only be considered 1 of 9 because that's the way the GAA constitute themselves.  The site might be worth a few pounds? So what?

3. The government must consider what is best for the people of Northern Ireland. Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are irrelevant.
So what? The worth of the site isn't a kick in the balls of what the GAA have pledged to the project. In relation to the Casement project, why should Antrim accept a similar standing to counties who have offered nothing to the new stadium?

So you think Antrim GAA should be paid £Xm for the site and then, whenever a provincial ground is built somewhere, they should pay back £Ym as their contribution whenever they want to use it.  As a percentage how many £s have Antrim generated for the Ulster Council?  Stormont doesn't care how many GAA heads there are in Belfast.  As a priority where would the GAA feature in a straw poll of residents anywhere in Belfast?  Way way down the pecking order.

I think what HS is getting at is that 'WE' as in Antrim gaels are being asked to give up our county ground, for a new stadium which we have no say in how it is run, when our games will be played in it and all the access issues that will go with a modern stadium.

So excuse us for getting a bit irate about this, but we are looking for the best deal for Antrim first, the rest of Ulster can get in line after that. Belfast has been neglected for years by the GAA and now that they have been given some money they just want to ride rough shod over Antrim's best interests in all of this. Well I am sorry but I for one wont be fooled by all the shiny new consultation efforts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on July 01, 2016, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 01, 2016, 09:00:25 AM
Well I am sorry but I for one wont be fooled by all the shiny new consultation efforts.

How many are though? Antrim officialdom is in bed with the whole process rather than being the ears and voice for the wider Antrim club membership as far as I can see. Dissenting voices are just being ignored.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on July 01, 2016, 10:13:34 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on July 01, 2016, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 01, 2016, 09:00:25 AM
Well I am sorry but I for one wont be fooled by all the shiny new consultation efforts.

How many are though? Antrim officialdom is in bed with the whole process rather than being the ears and voice for the wider Antrim club membership as far as I can see. Dissenting voices are just being ignored.

I am a dissenting voice in that I want what is best for Antrim Hurling/ Football and our development first, after that then other considerations can come in to play. But if the primary objective isnt achieved then the rest in BS.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rashCharacter on July 01, 2016, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 01, 2016, 08:38:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2016, 01:19:10 AM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/07/01/news/new-road-closure-powers-for-psni-in-casement-park-plans-586063/

Where there's a will there's a way.

"Existing legislation does not permit the PSNI to pre-plan to close roads to facilitate events in or on a public road. Therefore an event plan should not assume that this can occur."

Surely the PSNI close roads regularly to facilitate marches and things like that on a regular basis


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2016, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: rashCharacter on July 01, 2016, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 01, 2016, 08:38:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2016, 01:19:10 AM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/07/01/news/new-road-closure-powers-for-psni-in-casement-park-plans-586063/

Where there's a will there's a way.

"Existing legislation does not permit the PSNI to pre-plan to close roads to facilitate events in or on a public road. Therefore an event plan should not assume that this can occur."

Surely the PSNI close roads regularly to facilitate marches and things like that on a regular basis

I suppose the issue is that they can close the road to facilitate something on the road, be it a sectarian march or a cycle race. In this case, the event is not on the road but access is from the road. Big events in Britain and Ireland normally have some closed roads, it says something about NI life that they felt they didn't need this before now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2016, 10:52:04 AM
St Galls are hosting West Belfast Talks GAA at the clubs rooms on Monday evening at 7.45pm as part of the festival... our guest speakers will be Paraic Duffy, Donegal ex player Devenney, Sambo and Pete McGrath ... Obviously plenty to talk about with Casement, player welfare, hurling and football well covered
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 23, 2016, 07:08:45 PM
Yes very sad to see that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: macdanger2 on August 23, 2016, 08:35:02 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086

Are you sure that's Casement? It looks awful similar to the artist's impression of what the Hyde will look like after the renovations there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 23, 2016, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086

Whatever about the project in general, it was very very unwise to abandon the ground entirely before they were ready to go. Shame.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 23, 2016, 09:09:30 PM
You only need to cut the grass to bring it back to its former glory. All else looks the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 23, 2016, 09:09:30 PM
You only need to cut the grass to bring it back to its former glory. All else looks the same.
It's former glory was one of the best playing surfaces around. I suppose the weeds in terrace are something they should keep?
(http://m0.sportsjoe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/20125922/14045550_531160847081847_40531346830514103_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 23, 2016, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 23, 2016, 08:35:02 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086

Are you sure that's Casement? It looks awful similar to the artist's impression of what the Hyde will look like after the renovations there
Dont give up the day job >:(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2016, 09:55:48 PM
Get the silage trailer in, 2 good cuts and a bit of weeding in the stands, u could play on it next week, believe me i played on worse with sheep grazing down at the 14m line one day!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 24, 2016, 12:11:09 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 23, 2016, 11:37:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 23, 2016, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086

Whatever about the project in general, it was very very unwise to abandon the ground entirely before they were ready to go. Shame.
Not if you're pocketing the dough from the scrap metal & wood you had torn out of the ground.

Presumably the "dough" went to those who owned it, you might get something for metal, scrap wood is feck all use except to fleggers having a bonfire.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 24, 2016, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 23, 2016, 11:37:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 23, 2016, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086

Whatever about the project in general, it was very very unwise to abandon the ground entirely before they were ready to go. Shame.
Not if you're pocketing the dough from the scrap metal & wood you had torn out of the ground.

Why'd they not sell the floodlights?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on August 26, 2016, 11:39:28 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on August 24, 2016, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 23, 2016, 11:37:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 23, 2016, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 06:56:32 PM
Casement park in a shocking state.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-most-recent-images-of-antrims-once-hallowed-casement-park-are-depressing/92086

Whatever about the project in general, it was very very unwise to abandon the ground entirely before they were ready to go. Shame.
Not if you're pocketing the dough from the scrap metal & wood you had torn out of the ground.

Why'd they not sell the floodlights?

Can only assume they were adequate for the new proposed ground, afterall they're not that old. Sad sate that looking in but i've no doubt that new proposed ground will be built within the next 3 years (at least started).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 26, 2016, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2016, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 23, 2016, 09:09:30 PM
You only need to cut the grass to bring it back to its former glory. All else looks the same.
It's former glory was one of the best playing surfaces around. I suppose the weeds in terrace are something they should keep?
(http://m0.sportsjoe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/20125922/14045550_531160847081847_40531346830514103_n.jpg)

I kind of like the way it looks now.
It has character.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 26, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
Probably reminds you of Pàirc Tailteann.......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 26, 2016, 12:03:32 PM
(http://cdn1.hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/ddd5T9D9575.jpg)

The Theatre of Dreams.
Character in abundance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 26, 2016, 07:33:41 PM
On this issue about evacuating the stadium, whats the time of all people to be evacuated>?? I was at the boucher road last night at the peppers, and there is serious problems with the crowd coming out to one access point, way worst that Casement park but there seems to be no issue here issuing a license. A bomb scare at this place during a concert would be a total mess, take more than 30 mins plus to clear the crowd.. one rule for another it seems
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on August 26, 2016, 08:41:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 26, 2016, 07:33:41 PM
On this issue about evacuating the stadium, whats the time of all people to be evacuated>?? I was at the boucher road last night at the peppers, and there is serious problems with the crowd coming out to one access point, way worst that Casement park but there seems to be no issue here issuing a license. A bomb scare at this place during a concert would be a total mess, take more than 30 mins plus to clear the crowd.. one rule for another it seems
Is boucher not open playing fields? So no real fire risk etc. Prob why it gets passed for a 1 off every year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 26, 2016, 09:04:21 PM
I would focus on exit point from it its only 1, in event of fire within the grounds the crowd would never be evacuated safely
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 26, 2016, 10:13:12 PM
Oh that been the same last night among the young ones, dont know how half them get out the door!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 23, 2016, 06:22:09 PM
New plans I think go public tomorrow. Any chance of a 60000  triple tier bowl  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OgraAnDun on October 23, 2016, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 23, 2016, 06:22:09 PM
New plans I think go public tomorrow. Any chance of a 60000  triple tier bowl  ;)

Hopefully not, better off with 30,000 and a roof.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 24, 2016, 01:18:35 PM
34,500 capacity

https://twitter.com/brendanhughes64/status/790523392181039104

(http://i67.tinypic.com/14ukqaa.png)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/vdkeqh.png)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/35jwgv6.png)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Trap on October 24, 2016, 01:39:42 PM
CASEMENT PARK = WASTE OF MONEY

DO WE REALLY NEED A NEW STADIUM?

IF WE DO WHY NOT BUILD IT IN CENTRAL ULSTER?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 24, 2016, 03:32:17 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/ulster-gaa-unveil-new-look-casement-park-stadium-91-in-favour-of-project-say-developers-35156882.html

QuoteCASEMENT PARK = WASTE OF MONEY

Perhaps, but it isn't the GAA's money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 24, 2016, 03:41:09 PM
Nice to see the roof the whole way around now. Was this not rejected by the locals facing in the original plans?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 24, 2016, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 24, 2016, 03:41:09 PM
Nice to see the roof the whole way around now. Was this not rejected by the locals facing in the original plans?

There is a talk of some terracing, so the roof probably isn't as high.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on October 24, 2016, 04:11:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 24, 2016, 01:18:35 PM
(http://i65.tinypic.com/35jwgv6.png)

34,500 at Down v Antrim, neither playing with a goalie.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 24, 2016, 04:54:03 PM
How much are the GAA putting towards it?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 24, 2016, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: five points on October 24, 2016, 04:11:06 PM


34,500 at Down v Antrim, neither playing with a goalie.

Jarlath Burn's next idea to spice up the games will be to do away with goalies.

Looks a nice stadium, if it is terracing behind both goals it will provide an excellent atmosphere. The cost seems a little high by GAA standards but about right by modern stadium costs. Hopefully it goes through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 24, 2016, 06:08:20 PM
Quote from: The Trap on October 24, 2016, 01:39:42 PM
CASEMENT PARK = WASTE OF MONEY

DO WE REALLY NEED A NEW STADIUM?

IF WE DO WHY NOT BUILD IT IN CENTRAL ULSTER?
It is money from Stormont, if not used for this then it would probably go towards flutes and drums.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 24, 2016, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 24, 2016, 04:54:03 PM
How much are the GAA putting towards it?

£62m is ring fenced from Stormont so whatever the overspend on that is. Shouldn't be much more than €20m which would be great in comparison to the mess down in Cork.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 24, 2016, 06:42:34 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 24, 2016, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 24, 2016, 04:54:03 PM
How much are the GAA putting towards it?

£62m is ring fenced from Stormont so whatever the overspend on that is. Shouldn't be much more than €20m which would be great in comparison to the mess down in Cork.

Will the money from the GAA be expected to be paid back?

I've seen a few different pictures, some with a roof to 2 sides, some to 3 sides and some with it fully covered; Which is the correct one?
They appear to be getting a better stadium then they are down in Cork for a similar spend.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 24, 2016, 06:48:08 PM
Looks class to be fair.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on October 24, 2016, 06:54:16 PM
Re funding - not all is coming from Stormont.

A sizeable chunk, is to come from GAA HQ. This money is conditional on the development reaching a certain capacity - which the revised plans, reduced to 34,500, do easily. It's not a coincidence that this figure is greater than the current capacity of Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on October 24, 2016, 07:08:30 PM
IF the Ulster Final is moved to Casement down the line,  would it not mean the GAA being hit with a fair old tax bill from gate receipts?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on October 24, 2016, 09:05:58 PM
Antrim just need to find a football and hurling team now
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on October 24, 2016, 09:10:30 PM
I'm assuming it will contain a modern, health & safety compliant grass bank at one end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Il Bomber Destro on October 24, 2016, 09:13:21 PM
Clones will always be the spiritual home of Ulster GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 24, 2016, 09:17:11 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 24, 2016, 09:10:30 PM
I'm assuming it will contain a modern, health & safety compliant grass bank at one end.

There will be a demountable grass bank for when Meath come. The sprinkler system in the roof will water this grass,  and when the Meathies lose the run of themselves.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 24, 2016, 09:39:48 PM
And ye'll have to take down the floodlights too ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thejuice on October 24, 2016, 11:02:31 PM
If Pairc Tailteann is ever redeveloped I wonder what you'd have to spend on it. I reckon we wouldn't need more than a 25,000 capacity ground. Cork are spending €70m on a 50,000 seater. Nothing like that kind of money isn't really floating around these days. I suppose we're lucky to have Dunganny.

Given the way the floodlights were handled if it ever happens it needs to be taken out of the county boards hands completely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on October 24, 2016, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 24, 2016, 09:13:21 PM
Clones will always be the spiritual home of Ulster GAA.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 24, 2016, 11:24:34 PM
I thought it was Galbally ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2016, 11:30:30 PM
Quote from: The Trap on October 24, 2016, 01:39:42 PM
CASEMENT PARK = WASTE OF MONEY

DO WE REALLY NEED A NEW STADIUM?

IF WE DO WHY NOT BUILD IT IN CENTRAL ULSTER?

If we do why not build it in central Ulster!!

Cause it's Casement and nowhere else ffs?? Where have you been??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 25, 2016, 09:24:49 AM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on October 24, 2016, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on October 24, 2016, 09:13:21 PM
Clones will always be the spiritual home of Ulster GAA.

+1

-2, the home of Ulster football you mean. I know the Ulster Council make it hard to tell the difference at times.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 25, 2016, 09:44:29 AM
So far I'm really impressed with the design. The bowl is the sensible option ensuring all attendees are fully covered. Hopefully it meets the needs of the local residents and acts as a catalyst to improve the area of Andytown.!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 25, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 25, 2016, 09:44:29 AM
So far I'm really impressed with the design. The bowl is the sensible option ensuring all attendees are fully covered. Hopefully it meets the needs of the local residents and acts as a catalyst to improve the area of Andytown.!

Whats wrong with Andytown? It's not exactly Divis
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 25, 2016, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Minder on October 25, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 25, 2016, 09:44:29 AM
So far I'm really impressed with the design. The bowl is the sensible option ensuring all attendees are fully covered. Hopefully it meets the needs of the local residents and acts as a catalyst to improve the area of Andytown.!

Whats wrong with Andytown? It's not exactly Divis

Don't get your knickers in a twist. I mean in terms of investment, schools using the facilities etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on October 25, 2016, 08:02:52 PM
Well done to all involved. Lessons were learned from the first fiasco and this indeed looks like a superb facility.

As long as Antrim have an adequate deal that ensures some realistic ownership and an arrangement that means it can be financially sustainable in the long term, then great.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2016, 10:07:37 PM
And, of course.....as long as there are no health & safety concerns being either hushed or completely ignored in order to get a stadium up.

What health & safety concerns?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 25, 2016, 10:23:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2016, 10:07:37 PM
And, of course.....as long as there are no health & safety concerns being either hushed or completely ignored in order to get a stadium up.

What health & safety concerns?
Ask Caral
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 25, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2016, 10:07:37 PM
And, of course.....as long as there are no health & safety concerns being either hushed or completely ignored in order to get a stadium up.

What health & safety concerns?

The evacuation, the Andytown road is the only exit route or has something changed?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on October 26, 2016, 04:02:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2016, 10:24:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2016, 10:07:37 PM
And, of course.....as long as there are no health & safety concerns being either hushed or completely ignored in order to get a stadium up.

What health & safety concerns?
Exactly
Must be exciting to see all the impressive changes from last time...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 26, 2016, 07:54:56 AM
All I see now when I look at plans for Casement is an Ulster Council pitch. It'll be totally unsuitable for hosting club championship and national league matches. That part isn't playing any part in the narrative I see. Money talks and to he'll with the consequences for Antrim AFAICS
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Brick Tamlin on October 26, 2016, 08:49:34 AM
What exactly are the consequences for Antrim. And what do ye mean by an Ulster Council pitch?
Maybe im naïve here but is it not a good thing that the province will be getting a first class stadium?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 26, 2016, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on October 25, 2016, 11:02:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 25, 2016, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2016, 10:07:37 PM
And, of course.....as long as there are no health & safety concerns being either hushed or completely ignored in order to get a stadium up.

What health & safety concerns?

The evacuation, the Andytown road is the only exit route or has something changed?

Could be wrong but I think the new design incorporates a bowl like concourse which may aid evacuation. Still one exit seems risky!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p240x240/14713680_1800318360183953_3219616578196070539_n.png?oh=7c946024c0d706c57f34f40645a22ac6&oe=589DFF55)

The concourse will improve circulation/evacuation. The plan seems to show a new exit onto Owenvarragh and the GAA looks like they have bought the waste ground that opens onto stockmans lane. Apart from the exit down near the roundabout at kennedyway/M1 all paths ultimately lead to Andersonstown Road. This is not ideal but I guess in an emergency situation (fire etc) there are enough side streets now that can be accessed for spectators to move to. I am surprised they havent strategically bought houses to provide more exits to evacuate the stadium more quickly as this seemed to be one of the main issues with the original design or even bought a couple of houses to allow access to the leisure centre for extra flow in an emergency situation
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 26, 2016, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p240x240/14713680_1800318360183953_3219616578196070539_n.png?oh=7c946024c0d706c57f34f40645a22ac6&oe=589DFF55)

The concourse will improve circulation/evacuation. The plan seems to show a new exit onto Owenvarragh and the GAA looks like they have bought the waste ground that opens onto stockmans lane. Apart from the exit down near the roundabout at kennedyway/M1 all paths ultimately lead to Andersonstown Road. This is not ideal but I guess in an emergency situation (fire etc) there are enough side streets now that can be accessed for spectators to move to. I am surprised they havent strategically bought houses to provide more exits to evacuate the stadium more quickly as this seemed to be one of the main issues with the original design or even bought a couple of houses to allow access to the leisure centre for extra flow in an emergency situation

I never realised there was such room for parking facilities around the stadium. I assume those are adjacent to the M1 side?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2016, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 26, 2016, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p240x240/14713680_1800318360183953_3219616578196070539_n.png?oh=7c946024c0d706c57f34f40645a22ac6&oe=589DFF55)

The concourse will improve circulation/evacuation. The plan seems to show a new exit onto Owenvarragh and the GAA looks like they have bought the waste ground that opens onto stockmans lane. Apart from the exit down near the roundabout at kennedyway/M1 all paths ultimately lead to Andersonstown Road. This is not ideal but I guess in an emergency situation (fire etc) there are enough side streets now that can be accessed for spectators to move to. I am surprised they havent strategically bought houses to provide more exits to evacuate the stadium more quickly as this seemed to be one of the main issues with the original design or even bought a couple of houses to allow access to the leisure centre for extra flow in an emergency situation

I never realised there was such room for parking facilities around the stadium. I assume those are adjacent to the M1 side?

The picture below suggests there are some parking places round the back/M1 side

(http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3043933/original/?width=630&version=3043933)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2016, 10:26:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
The concourse will improve circulation/evacuation. The plan seems to show a new exit onto Owenvarragh and the GAA looks like they have bought the waste ground that opens onto stockmans lane. Apart from the exit down near the roundabout at kennedyway/M1 all paths ultimately lead to Andersonstown Road. This is not ideal but I guess in an emergency situation (fire etc) there are enough side streets now that can be accessed for spectators to move to. I am surprised they havent strategically bought houses to provide more exits to evacuate the stadium more quickly as this seemed to be one of the main issues with the original design or even bought a couple of houses to allow access to the leisure centre for extra flow in an emergency situation

If everything going to Andersonstown Road is an issue, it should be possible to provide some sort of access to Rivderdale and so to Finaghy Rd N. There is a small park between Owenvarragh and Riverdale, even if it is necessary to buy one house and remove it.

https://goo.gl/maps/Z1oo8scUDZp

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 26, 2016, 10:30:46 AM
I suppose a footbridge across the M1 would be shocking expensive? It would have to be fit to accommodate a breadth of 10-12 people to be of any use!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 26, 2016, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on October 26, 2016, 08:49:34 AM
What exactly are the consequences for Antrim. And what do ye mean by an Ulster Council pitch?
Maybe im naïve here but is it not a good thing that the province will be getting a first class stadium?

From Ulster footballs perspective, its great (I suppose ... although I'm not convinced that its a big deal) they will have a first class stadium to hold big matches. Thats what it is being designed for.
From Antrims perspective, the size of the stadium will be too big for their support base and I fully expect a poor atmosphere for club championship and national league matches, that will do nothing for the promotion of the game IMO.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on October 26, 2016, 12:02:23 PM
If you build it they will come  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: MoChara on October 26, 2016, 12:13:47 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 26, 2016, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 26, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p240x240/14713680_1800318360183953_3219616578196070539_n.png?oh=7c946024c0d706c57f34f40645a22ac6&oe=589DFF55)

The concourse will improve circulation/evacuation. The plan seems to show a new exit onto Owenvarragh and the GAA looks like they have bought the waste ground that opens onto stockmans lane. Apart from the exit down near the roundabout at kennedyway/M1 all paths ultimately lead to Andersonstown Road. This is not ideal but I guess in an emergency situation (fire etc) there are enough side streets now that can be accessed for spectators to move to. I am surprised they havent strategically bought houses to provide more exits to evacuate the stadium more quickly as this seemed to be one of the main issues with the original design or even bought a couple of houses to allow access to the leisure centre for extra flow in an emergency situation

I never realised there was such room for parking facilities around the stadium. I assume those are adjacent to the M1 side?

Maybe I picked up wrong but are the parking facilities within the grounds not gogin to be only for Players officials etc?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 26, 2016, 12:27:48 PM
Is any Antrim Gael actually positive about the new casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 26, 2016, 12:39:59 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 26, 2016, 12:27:48 PM
Is any Antrim Gael actually positive about the new casement?

"Gaels4Casement" are  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on October 26, 2016, 12:41:26 PM
Parking?
Where do ye leave the car when ye go to Croke Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 26, 2016, 12:56:07 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2016, 12:41:26 PM
Parking?
Where do ye leave the car when ye go to Croke Park?
Maynooth ,15 miles away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 26, 2016, 02:03:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 26, 2016, 12:56:07 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 26, 2016, 12:41:26 PM
Parking?
Where do ye leave the car when ye go to Croke Park?
Maynooth ,15 miles away.

That's crazy, 10 mins walk away every time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 26, 2016, 09:17:27 PM
What'll the first graffiti be?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 26, 2016, 10:06:09 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on October 26, 2016, 08:49:34 AM
What exactly are the consequences for Antrim. And what do ye mean by an Ulster Council pitch?
Maybe im naïve here but is it not a good thing that the province will be getting a first class stadium?

I agree. People will never be pleased ffs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 26, 2016, 10:14:26 PM
Are more people playing GAA in the country now than there were 10 years ago?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 26, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 26, 2016, 10:06:09 PM
I agree. People will never be pleased ffs.

Just ridicule dissenting voices rather than address any arguments they make.

#JimStynes4Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 26, 2016, 10:17:58 PM
Just seems to be one random excuse after another for some people to be against it. Casement park always held nearly 30000 and was used by Antrim and for club games. So I'm not sure what difference this stadium is going to make in terms of atmosphere to what was there. At least the supporters will be covered and in a bit of comfort.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 26, 2016, 10:19:16 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 26, 2016, 10:17:58 PM
Just seems to be one random excuse after another for some people to be against it. Casement park always held nearly 30000 and was used by Antrim and for club games. So I'm not sure what difference this stadium is going to make in terms of atmosphere to what was there. At least the supporters will be covered and in a bit of comfort.

Yeah that's when it was the property of Antrim
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 26, 2016, 10:20:31 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 26, 2016, 10:17:58 PM
Just seems to be one random excuse after another for some people to be against it. Casement park always held nearly 30000 and was used by Antrim and for club games. So I'm not sure what difference this stadium is going to make in terms of atmosphere to what was there. At least the supporters will be covered and in a bit of comfort.

The old Casement was easy to maintain. Turn on a lightbulb in the new one and you're out a fortune unless 10'000 turn up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 26, 2016, 10:32:06 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 26, 2016, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on October 26, 2016, 08:49:34 AM
What exactly are the consequences for Antrim. And what do ye mean by an Ulster Council pitch?
Maybe im naïve here but is it not a good thing that the province will be getting a first class stadium?

From Ulster footballs perspective, its great (I suppose ... although I'm not convinced that its a big deal) they will have a first class stadium to hold big matches. Thats what it is being designed for.
From Antrims perspective, the size of the stadium will be too big for their support base and I fully expect a poor atmosphere for club championship and national league matches, that will do nothing for the promotion of the game IMO.

If Antrim get promoted a few divisions to Div 1 then league attendances will increase.

Would agree with the club games. Taking my own County as an example, the quarter finals onwards have hardly any atmosphere due to them all in MacHale Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ashman on October 26, 2016, 11:11:16 PM
If the GAA put money in to a stadium in Belfast then they might put comparative money in to the second city to that they put in the first city.   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 26, 2016, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 26, 2016, 10:14:26 PM
Are more people playing GAA in the country now than there were 10 years ago?

At a senior level I'd doubt it. In Kildare for example, a county with good population growth most clubs that had 3 or 4 senior teams are down to 2 and 3. Some of the bigger town clubs might be up a bit and underage is strong enough but there definitely is a massive drop off from lads in their mid 20's especially. This is evident also in the collapse in attendances.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 26, 2016, 11:43:11 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on October 26, 2016, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 26, 2016, 10:14:26 PM
Are more people playing GAA in the country now than there were 10 years ago?

At a senior level I'd doubt it. In Kildare for example, a county with good population growth most clubs that had 3 or 4 senior teams are down to 2 and 3. Some of the bigger town clubs might be up a bit and underage is strong enough but there definitely is a massive drop off from lads in their mid 20's especially. This is evident also in the collapse in attendances.

Then, the question is, why invest in another big flagship ground when there are already so many in Ulster that never fill out, bar one massive game in Clones? When was the last time Omagh, Newry, Cavan or Armagh were filled? Maybe it'll be like the Catholic Church...you show your wealth and people will follow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 26, 2016, 11:54:24 PM
For the record redhand the old casement had a terrible atmosphere as well. Far too far away from the pitch.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2016, 08:34:52 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 26, 2016, 11:54:24 PM
For the record redhand the old casement had a terrible atmosphere as well. Far too far away from the pitch.

That depends on the game, been to a lot of Ulster championship games, which didn't have Antrim playing and the supporters that came generated great atmosphere with around 30 thousand at the games, seems to me that it's just Antrim folk who can't generate support or atmosphere when watching their county team
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 10:00:16 AM
I'm agreeing with you MR. That's the problem. Even when's it on the door step Antrim doesn't have the fan base and (to address an earlier comment made elsewhere) , would only improve 5-15% tops if we found ourselves going well, so WE in Antrim will be playing in a Stadium which is totally unsuitable (to the point I think it will dampen enthusiasm) and our County Board are actually happy about it.
I can't see their logic
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 27, 2016, 10:08:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 10:00:16 AM
I'm agreeing with you MR. That's the problem. Even when's it on the door step Antrim doesn't have the fan base and (to address an earlier comment made elsewhere) , would only improve 5-15% tops if we found ourselves going well, so WE in Antrim will be playing in a Stadium which is totally unsuitable (to the point I think it will dampen enthusiasm) and our County Board are actually happy about it.
I can't see their logic

Whats the alternative then Skull? 15k stadium in Belfast for Antrim and provincial stadium say in Armagh? As has been previously mentioned I think the money had to be spent in one pop in Belfast. Like any side the fans will follow if success is there. Its up to the GAA to properly invest in Belfast/Antrim!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 10:35:02 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 10:00:16 AM
I'm agreeing with you MR. That's the problem. Even when's it on the door step Antrim doesn't have the fan base and (to address an earlier comment made elsewhere) , would only improve 5-15% tops if we found ourselves going well, so WE in Antrim will be playing in a Stadium which is totally unsuitable (to the point I think it will dampen enthusiasm) and our County Board are actually happy about it.
I can't see their logic

Antrim have profoundly underachieved at county level for years. If they performed as they should, then their games would not be dead rubbers, and while the new stadium might not full it would attract a lot more. They need a push forward to try and get some interest going.  Where is the spirit that got Casement built in the first place 60 years ago?

The old Casement was also pretty large, so I doubt if the new one will have any material effect on enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2016, 11:21:21 AM
What would be the Nationalist population of Antrim incl Belfast these days?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 27, 2016, 11:29:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2016, 11:21:21 AM
What would be the Nationalist population of Antrim incl Belfast these days?

According to wiki:

Belfast - 330k (Prob around 55% nationalist)
County Antrim - 615k (No idea 60/40 split possibly)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2016, 11:36:41 AM
Maybe 350-400k so?
Even allowing for soccer and Castle Catholics Antrim should be  a pretty big force on the playing fields and terraces.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 27, 2016, 11:41:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2016, 11:36:41 AM
Maybe 350-400k so?
Even allowing for soccer and Castle Catholics Antrim should be  a pretty big force on the playing fields and terraces.


North Antrim is virtually all hurling. Football popular in SW Antrim and in West Belfast. That's about it. I'll leave the Antrim lads to comment but the figures wouldn't be high.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 27, 2016, 10:08:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 10:00:16 AM
I'm agreeing with you MR. That's the problem. Even when's it on the door step Antrim doesn't have the fan base and (to address an earlier comment made elsewhere) , would only improve 5-15% tops if we found ourselves going well, so WE in Antrim will be playing in a Stadium which is totally unsuitable (to the point I think it will dampen enthusiasm) and our County Board are actually happy about it.
I can't see their logic

Whats the alternative then Skull? 15k stadium in Belfast for Antrim and provincial stadium say in Armagh? As has been previously mentioned I think the money had to be spent in one pop in Belfast. Like any side the fans will follow if success is there. Its up to the GAA to properly invest in Belfast/Antrim!

Look I'm arguing that in the first place, Antrim county board should have represented the view early doors that a newly built Casement to a spec sought by the UC was gonna be way too big for their club and IC requirements, so if Casement was being deemed by the UC as the best location to spend the pot of gold, then Antrim would have to look for somewhere else to ply their trade. I don't think that would have been a difficult argument to win. Some agreement could have been made at that time (with the UC and Croke Park) to look into delivering a suitably sized "Owenbeg like stadium" that within 5-10 years at a location that would maximise attendances for the local game.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 12:02:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2016, 11:36:41 AM
Maybe 350-400k so?
Even allowing for soccer and Castle Catholics Antrim should be  a pretty big force on the playing fields and terraces.

Castle catholics are all too common in Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Who's to say the new Casement won't be the catalyst for a surge in interest in Antrim?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 12:06:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Who's to say the new Casement won't be the catalyst for a surge in interest in Antrim?

A lot of Antrim posters!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 12:06:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Who's to say the new Casement won't be the catalyst for a surge in interest in Antrim?

A lot of Antrim posters!
Sure what would they know!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2016, 11:36:41 AM
Maybe 350-400k so?
Even allowing for soccer and Castle Catholics Antrim should be  a pretty big force on the playing fields and terraces.

Every village with a decent nationalist population has a club (so we're the same as every other county in Ireland in that regard)

The towns don't have the interest and thats not going to change by thowing money at the problem. It is what it is. Only a critical mass of interested adults in each of these areas would improve things slowly and it would takes years of selfless sacrifice to acheive anything long term positive. Those people don't exist as far as I can see.

Antrim Town - 1 small club (football only)
Glengormley - 1 large dual club
Newtownabbey - No interest
Ballymena - 1 largish club
Ballymoney - No interest
Carrickfergus - No interest
Larne - Hurling club folded last year due to lack of interest
Lisburn - 1 small football only club -- -have to amalgamate alot due to low numbers
Ballyclare - No interest
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 12:13:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 12:06:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Who's to say the new Casement won't be the catalyst for a surge in interest in Antrim?

A lot of Antrim posters!
Sure what would they know!
::)
Youse are gas men lads. Now please point out the lump of concrete that was cited as the 'catalyst' within other counties. I'm struggling myself here ... but no doubt you have the answer(s)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 01:28:34 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 12:13:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 12:06:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Who's to say the new Casement won't be the catalyst for a surge in interest in Antrim?

A lot of Antrim posters!
Sure what would they know!
::)
Youse are gas men lads. Now please point out the lump of concrete that was cited as the 'catalyst' within other counties. I'm struggling myself here ... but no doubt you have the answer(s)
Croke Park? :p
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on October 27, 2016, 02:09:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 27, 2016, 12:13:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 12:06:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 27, 2016, 12:04:44 PM
Who's to say the new Casement won't be the catalyst for a surge in interest in Antrim?

A lot of Antrim posters!
Sure what would they know!
::)
Youse are gas men lads. Now please point out the lump of concrete that was cited as the 'catalyst' within other counties. I'm struggling myself here ... but no doubt you have the answer(s)

If you don't want it, can we have it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2016, 02:11:47 PM
Well the thing is it's not really ours...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 27, 2016, 02:42:07 PM
Does the fact the stadium will have a reduced footprint from the previous proposal affect the dimensions of the pitch? A small pitch in Ulster will not encourage an expansive game...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on October 27, 2016, 02:56:14 PM
The pitch could cover the whole of West Belfast and it still wouldn't encourage Ulster teams to play an expansive game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 03:30:28 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 27, 2016, 02:56:14 PM
The pitch could cover the whole of West Belfast and it still wouldn't encourage Ulster teams to play an expansive game.

Are you sure? West Belfast is a very big whole.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 27, 2016, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2016, 05:07:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2016, 03:30:28 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on October 27, 2016, 02:56:14 PM
The pitch could cover the whole of West Belfast and it still wouldn't encourage Ulster teams to play an expansive game.

Are you sure? West Belfast is a very big whole.
West Belfast's response:

"Not as big as your ma's"

;D ;D ;D ;D ask yer ma!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2016, 07:43:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: MCMLX on October 06, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement? Difficult to make any valid comparison, but it has taken me a good while to get out onto the motorway after matches with 20,000 people.

I can remember a McKenna cup match with Tyrone v Armagh that had nearly full capacity
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 27, 2016, 07:51:35 PM
Maybe not that much - it was maybe 20,000
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2016, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 27, 2016, 07:51:35 PM
Maybe not that much - it was maybe 20,000

Well it was January or some god forsaken winters Sunday... was great game too
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Gs Man on October 28, 2016, 10:44:03 AM
Had a wee juke in at the public consultation event in Andytown Leisure Centre yesterday.

Must say I'm very impressed with the whole thing. 

No matter who owns it or whatever, it can only be a good thing for Antrim/Ulster football, no?

I don't get the backlash to be honest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rawhide on October 28, 2016, 11:20:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2016, 07:43:23 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: MCMLX on October 06, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement? Difficult to make any valid comparison, but it has taken me a good while to get out onto the motorway after matches with 20,000 people.

I was there in 92 when Derry who were national league champions played down who were All Ireland champions. Casement was stuffed, full capacity, what a stadium when it was full, incredible atmosphere. Beat Clones any day when full like that



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 28, 2016, 10:44:03 AM
I don't get the backlash to be honest.

When the concerns are explicitly outlined .... whats not to get? Why not try and debunk the concerns rather than remain confused?
E.G. Do you think there'll be a good atmosphere at county finals with 3000-5000 in a stadium that can house 35000?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 28, 2016, 10:44:03 AM
I don't get the backlash to be honest.

When the concerns are explicitly outlined .... whats not to get? Why not try and debunk the concerns rather than remain confused?
E.G. Do you think there'll be a good atmosphere at county finals with 3000-5000 in a stadium that can house 35000?

Would a more sensible option for Antrim not be an Owenbeg type facility at Dunsilly?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Gs Man on October 28, 2016, 12:11:32 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 28, 2016, 10:44:03 AM
I don't get the backlash to be honest.

When the concerns are explicitly outlined .... whats not to get? Why not try and debunk the concerns rather than remain confused?
E.G. Do you think there'll be a good atmosphere at county finals with 3000-5000 in a stadium that can house 35000?

Surely 3000 - 5000 in a bowled stadium with good acoustics will be a much better atmosphere than 3000 - 5000 in a much more open ground like the old Casement?

Looking at it from a player's perspective too, how class would it be to get playing in a modern, fully closed in, state of the art facility?  The 4 occasions I played at the old Casement in colleges finals and with the club I can remember nearly every minute of them.  Feck, I'd give my right arm to be playing in a new stadium whether it be in front of 34 people never mind 34k. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 12:14:00 PM
Very true. Croker is virtually empty for the Junior and Intermediate A.I finals. That doesn't detract from how special it is to the players and clubs involved!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on October 28, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
Antrim should start fundraising and build or renovate a ground of their own instead of planning to go cap in hand to the Ulster Council to borrow Casement for club finals or County National League matches.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 28, 2016, 12:21:07 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 12:14:00 PM
Very true. Croker is virtually empty for the Junior and Intermediate A.I finals. That doesn't detract from how special it is to the players and clubs involved!

Yeah, players speak warmly of being able to hear their friends and family support from the stands in these virtually empty finals in Croker.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
You're dancing around the question Gs Man .... I never said the old casement had a good atmosphere .... it didn't

Would you look forward to watching your favorite band (with say a 5 thousand following) in a 35K stadium? I know the answer is no. Both the band and fans know the venue is critical for atmosphere and both would know a cavernous venue (which dwarfs the crowd attending) is shite for atmosphere. People would get turned off attending. You know this is the truth yet you expect the GAA fanbase to remain 'pious' and attend (and enjoy it) regardless  :-\

To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

You couldn't swing a cat round Dunsilly pitches .... there is zero space to develop. Shame there was no forward thinking in that regard
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
Antrim could always use Drogheda seeing as they don't like it want to use big or modern Stadiums :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 01:08:45 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
You're dancing around the question Gs Man .... I never said the old casement had a good atmosphere .... it didn't

Would you look forward to watching your favorite band (with say a 5 thousand following) in a 35K stadium? I know the answer is no. Both the band and fans know the venue is critical for atmosphere and both would know a cavernous venue (which dwarfs the crowd attending) is shite for atmosphere. People would get turned off attending. You know this is the truth yet you expect the GAA fanbase to remain 'pious' and attend (and enjoy it) regardless  :-\

To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

You couldn't swing a cat round Dunsilly pitches .... there is zero space to develop. Shame there was no forward thinking in that regard

Going by the following link the only 'permanent' barrier to development appears to be the railway line. On page 9 it references a spectator area. A 3k capacity stand is all that is needed to begin with!

http://www.antrimgaa.net/uploads/documents/Centre%20of%20Excellence%20PR%20Launch(1).pdf
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2016, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

Than let them build their own stadium with a 3000 capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on October 28, 2016, 02:19:50 PM
Quote from: Clinker on October 28, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
Antrim should start fundraising and build or renovate a ground of their own instead of planning to go cap in hand to the Ulster Council to borrow Casement for club finals or County National League matches.

Maybe the GAA should pay Antrim GAA the going rate for Casement, then they might be in a position to start building their own stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 02:22:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2016, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

Than let them build their own stadium with a 3000 capacity.

Any reason for your tone? Could you not agree that its a reasonable point being made and that it needs to be considered?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lolafrola on October 28, 2016, 02:22:26 PM
Is this stadium not to be the show case for the Ulster final? Obviously Antrim benefit from the Re-development! Built it and they will come.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Gs Man on October 28, 2016, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
You're dancing around the question Gs Man .... I never said the old casement had a good atmosphere .... it didn't

Would you look forward to watching your favorite band (with say a 5 thousand following) in a 35K stadium? I know the answer is no. Both the band and fans know the venue is critical for atmosphere and both would know a cavernous venue (which dwarfs the crowd attending) is shite for atmosphere. People would get turned off attending. You know this is the truth yet you expect the GAA fanbase to remain 'pious' and attend (and enjoy it) regardless  :-\

To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

You couldn't swing a cat round Dunsilly pitches .... there is zero space to develop. Shame there was no forward thinking in that regard

I think Walter's point is a good one.  Croke Park (or most stadiums in the land) are certainly not filled to capacity all the time, but I'm assuming they had a business plan in place before they decided on developing an 83k seater stadium to allow for the occasions where you're playing games at a lower capacity.  There's smarter men than me who'll have done the sums.

To take the bands analogy, I was at an event in the Odyssey a couple of weeks back where they closed the seats off and only had standing.  It was some night! 

But again, I'll go back to my earlier point, imagine a kid doing ball-boy or playing a half-time game, or a 17 year old college student playing an Ulster final in a modern stadium like that.  Imagine the buzz they'd get.  You'd have them hooked for life.

I dunno, I can see your points of course, but whatever the reasons on Belfast being chosen, there is not a thing that can be done about it now and it would be a shame to turn our noses up to 60 million or whatever it is. 

PS. I love a wee dance.   :D   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2016, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on October 28, 2016, 12:21:07 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 12:14:00 PM
Very true. Croker is virtually empty for the Junior and Intermediate A.I finals. That doesn't detract from how special it is to the players and clubs involved!

Yeah, players speak warmly of being able to hear their friends and family support from the stands in these virtually empty finals in Croker.

Playing and stepping out on Croke park for a club final with your friends and your family in the stand will always stay with everyone involved.... having witnessed it and been on the pitch i can certaianly say that it is truly a wonderful feeling.... until you get stuffed!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2016, 03:07:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 02:22:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2016, 01:48:03 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

Than let them build their own stadium with a 3000 capacity.

Any reason for your tone? Could you not agree that its a reasonable point being made and that it needs to be considered?

This is not an Antrim stadium. This is a stadium funded by the NI government on behalf of the Ulster council. Having a modern stadium in your midst should be a benefit, not a disadvantage. In Armagh, we have up to 15% of the relevant population attending games, the county final had about 7% of the population. Do something the same in Antrim and you have no problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
Personally I think the 'park & ride' issue has been given a bit of a free reign by the press. Think the GAA could be pulling a fast one there! Norn Iron isn't exactly a place where such infrastructure and facilities are common!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2016, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
Personally I think the 'park & ride' issue has been given a bit of a free reign by the press. Think the GAA could be pulling a fast one there! Norn Iron isn't exactly a place where such infrastructure and facilities are common!

Places like the Sprucefield P&R are well suited for transport to Casement, and the train is nearby.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: MoChara on October 28, 2016, 06:57:06 PM
Heard the fella from moorland and OwenFarrah residents group on radio Ulster earlier, he sounded like there was gonna be a problem with the new plans while also saying they hadn't fully investigated them.

His big problem seemed to be the safety aspect of the first review saying 18k Max but now it's still 35k, what exactly has that got to do with a residents group. It sounds to me like the GAA could build it in Offaly and they'd still have problems. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2016, 07:19:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2016, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
Personally I think the 'park & ride' issue has been given a bit of a free reign by the press. Think the GAA could be pulling a fast one there! Norn Iron isn't exactly a place where such infrastructure and facilities are common!

Places like the Sprucefield P&R are well suited for transport to Casement, and the train is nearby.

Probably some scope for somewhere like boucher playing fields.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 28, 2016, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on October 28, 2016, 12:37:16 PM
You're dancing around the question Gs Man .... I never said the old casement had a good atmosphere .... it didn't

Would you look forward to watching your favorite band (with say a 5 thousand following) in a 35K stadium? I know the answer is no. Both the band and fans know the venue is critical for atmosphere and both would know a cavernous venue (which dwarfs the crowd attending) is shite for atmosphere. People would get turned off attending. You know this is the truth yet you expect the GAA fanbase to remain 'pious' and attend (and enjoy it) regardless  :-\

To generate interest in our games Antrim should be looking for facilities that are capable of generating the right atmosphere for the crowd that we expect to be there. If not, then only the die hards will attend.   

You couldn't swing a cat round Dunsilly pitches .... there is zero space to develop. Shame there was no forward thinking in that regard

What would you like to see Skull? Genuinely interested. Taking into account the conditions on how the money should be spent.

How much of a walk is the nearest train station to Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: culchie11 on October 28, 2016, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: culchie11 on December 23, 2014, 01:53:44 PM
Jeez lads, stop pancaking about traffic. wudnt like to see u all in around the castlecourt today or tomorrow lol

there was talk at a stage that gaa would acquire ground off the boucher road & make a walkover from there to casement, crossing the motorway. not sure how true though?!

recently for the game for anto, there were shuttle buses from central station, surely something like this will be in service come match day.
u dont really expect to go to any event nowadays with some form of traffic congestion!

anyway these are merely the end of the process, i wud like to c a start happening first & foremost!!

My thoughts nearly 2 years ago & they r still the same today!! Get it approved and valid certificates and then worry about park and rides. It will work!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 28, 2016, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: MoChara on October 28, 2016, 06:57:06 PM
Heard the fella from moorland and OwenFarrah residents group on radio Ulster earlier, he sounded like there was gonna be a problem with the new plans while also saying they hadn't fully investigated them.

His big problem seemed to be the safety aspect of the first review saying 18k Max but now it's still 35k, what exactly has that got to do with a residents group. It sounds to me like the GAA could build it in Offaly and they'd still have problems.
I'd say they're still hoping to get a few quid from the GAA
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 29, 2016, 01:51:08 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 28, 2016, 09:48:20 PM
What would you like to see Skull? Genuinely interested. Taking into account the conditions on how the money should be spent.

How much of a walk is the nearest train station to Casement?

What I thought of when I read that  ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkcKQmr7kRc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkcKQmr7kRc)

1.3 Miles
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stiffler on October 29, 2016, 07:36:01 AM
Knock 10k off the capacity and stick a roof on it.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 29, 2016, 08:58:24 AM
So the residents main concern is about health and safety leaving the stadium? Seems like any excuse to complain. I don't think it's up to them to judge on the issue and would imagine the ones complaining aren't experts in the area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 29, 2016, 09:08:53 AM
Quote from: stiffler on October 29, 2016, 07:36:01 AM
Knock 10k off the capacity and stick a roof on it.

No way, sure the atmosphere will be crap with all the empty seats  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 29, 2016, 09:30:52 AM
Also why has health and safety concerns around capacity only become an issue for them in the new stadium? The old casement had over 25000 in it on a number of occasions in the last 25 years and it wasn't an issue for them then. I'm sure the new stadium will be safer than the old one too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on October 29, 2016, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2016, 09:08:53 AM
Quote from: stiffler on October 29, 2016, 07:36:01 AM
Knock 10k off the capacity and stick a roof on it.

No way, sure the atmosphere will be crap with all the empty seats  ::)

(http://media.salon.com/2015/12/donald_trump55.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 29, 2016, 03:03:12 PM
Flatten the place and put houses on it and give the money to the other side of the fence.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 29, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
Yup, that's what they really want so that they can then wallow in self pity
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 29, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
Yup, that's what they really want so that they can then wallow in self pity
Dougal you have very strongly held opinions for someone who'll be in the place a couple of times a year. The residents will see it every day.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2016, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 29, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
Yup, that's what they really want so that they can then wallow in self pity
Dougal you have very strongly held opinions for someone who'll be in the place a couple of times a year. The residents will see it every day.

And it is a better looking thing than the old Casement and with the reduced capacity/terracing probably not excessively high.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 29, 2016, 07:16:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 29, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
Yup, that's what they really want so that they can then wallow in self pity
Dougal you have very strongly held opinions for someone who'll be in the place a couple of times a year. The residents will see it every day.
I appreciate that but it seems their current gripe is not about the size of the place but rather about spectator safety which is not really their responsibility. Seems that regardless of what GAA does residents won't be happy. I accept they have rights, but so too does the GAA and in fairness they were probably in the area much longer than a lot if the residents
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2016, 07:29:27 PM
Are they sure the residents have all had a say though??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 29, 2016, 07:51:38 PM
Is Bobby Storey part of MORA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 29, 2016, 08:31:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2016, 07:56:32 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 29, 2016, 07:51:38 PM
Is Bobby Storey part of MORA?
Not sure. He lives in Owenvarragh though.

Just wondering as SF and their associated pressure groups are pushing it so hard
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on October 30, 2016, 12:59:12 AM
I see this from various angles.
As a very proud Antrim man I see the numerous benefits. They are obvious. I know it's a vanity project for Ulster,and one that will match any stadia on Western Europe, a fantastic showpiece and all that...but as it's ring fenced for a Gaa stadium in West Belfast...and nowhere else...its kinda imperative that Antrim get a great deal outa this. After that it's plain enough sailing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 30, 2016, 01:08:38 AM
Quote from: bannside on October 30, 2016, 12:59:12 AM
I see this from various angles.
As a very proud Antrim man I see the numerous benefits. They are obvious. I know it's a vanity project for Ulster,and one that will match any stadia on Western Europe, a fantastic showpiece and all that...but as it's ring fenced for a Gaa stadium in West Belfast...and nowhere else...its kinda imperative that Antrim get a great deal outa this. After that it's plain enough sailing.

And shit on the local residents?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on October 30, 2016, 01:16:36 AM
Or for those of a really slow disposition....let's say we sell Casement to Tescos for 3 million and build an Owenbeg/Garvaghy for half the price. 

Now you see the magnitude of the project.

And where previous Antrim executives might have said " Wao"  the new Saffron Vision" elect realise the value of their asset which can be measured in £m's. They want a good and fair deal for Antrim. Which is their mandate.

This will go back to the Antrim clubs delegates for a final green light...and whilst it's unbelievably attractive....and a major architectural masterpiece....Antrim need to feel a bit more of the ownership. That's my position on it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 30, 2016, 01:40:45 AM
Fair points Bannside. I think it's still too big by probably 5-7k but lads like McGeehan etc. can probably see themselves in a box at the new place slapping each other on the back, having a few drinks and watching a Robbie Williams concert. I'm not sure the wants and needs of Antrim gaels, never mind the local residents, even makes the top 5 of the things motivating them to get it built. Too much vanity and little sanity at present. To be fair though the latest design  looks class. If it could be shrank a little it would be the dogs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 30, 2016, 06:32:52 AM
Who owns the land right now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on October 30, 2016, 09:20:21 AM
Is the rugby World Cup coming to Ireland predicated on this stadium being ready or is that just a myth ?.


How many concerts a year are planned ?.

Is the ulster final definitely being moved to Casememt from now on instead of Clones ?.

Sorry for all the questions. They probably have been answered a few times already.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on October 30, 2016, 09:06:43 PM
I know a few ex Owenvarragh residents who now live in Carryduff.

Told them that if they still lived in Owenvarragh and were part of the residents groups then I would take great pleasure inflicting slow and painful physical violence on them.

The residents groups are just negotiating for a better deal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 31, 2016, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 31, 2016, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 30, 2016, 06:32:52 AM
Who owns the land right now?

In some form or other I think it belongs to the Antrim County Board.
I believe that all GAA grounds belong to the Association as a whole and not boards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on October 31, 2016, 06:56:41 PM
Ah right. I remember someone telling me it was currently owned by some American company yoke. He was full though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on November 01, 2016, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2016, 09:11:05 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 30, 2016, 09:06:43 PM
I know a few ex Owenvarragh residents who now live in Carryduff.

Told them that if they still lived in Owenvarragh and were part of the residents groups then I would take great pleasure inflicting slow and painful physical violence on them.

The residents groups are just negotiating for a better deal.
Have a word with yourself ffs.

Okay I will indeed. But the nurses on this mental ward frown at such behaviour.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 03, 2016, 07:24:56 AM
Football allstars are out. Good selection i think.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 16, 2016, 11:56:45 AM
Can't help feeling that if they'd:

- Replaced the existing stand.
- Put a roof over the existing terrace opposite.
- Bought up surrounding land and laid floodlit 4g pitches down for the locals/local clubs to use. It probably wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to make these transformable into parking areas for big matches.

That, in my opinion, would be a much better solution than a high-maintenance white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 18, 2016, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 16, 2016, 11:56:45 AM
Can't help feeling that if they'd:

- Replaced the existing stand.
- Put a roof over the existing terrace opposite.
- Bought up surrounding land and laid floodlit 4g pitches down for the locals/local clubs to use. It probably wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to make these transformable into parking areas for big matches.

That, in my opinion, would be a much better solution than a high-maintenance white elephant.

+1

And all that could have been done without ever shutting the pitch. There hasn't been a game there now for, what, 5 years? I'm beginning to fear that there'll never be another.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2016, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: five points on November 18, 2016, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 16, 2016, 11:56:45 AM
Can't help feeling that if they'd:

- Replaced the existing stand.
- Put a roof over the existing terrace opposite.
- Bought up surrounding land and laid floodlit 4g pitches down for the locals/local clubs to use. It probably wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to make these transformable into parking areas for big matches.

That, in my opinion, would be a much better solution than a high-maintenance white elephant.

+1

And all that could have been done without ever shutting the pitch. There hasn't been a game there now for, what, 5 years? I'm beginning to fear that there'll never be another.

This would have been a pitch for Antrim, but not much use of the windfall money for the rest of us.

However, there is no reason why the pitch could not have been kept open while this planning etc was taking place. The pitch should not have been closed until they were ready to go, even if they didn't have any big games using all the capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on November 18, 2016, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2016, 10:50:29 AM
Quote from: five points on November 18, 2016, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 16, 2016, 11:56:45 AM
Can't help feeling that if they'd:

- Replaced the existing stand.
- Put a roof over the existing terrace opposite.
- Bought up surrounding land and laid floodlit 4g pitches down for the locals/local clubs to use. It probably wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to make these transformable into parking areas for big matches.

That, in my opinion, would be a much better solution than a high-maintenance white elephant.

+1

And all that could have been done without ever shutting the pitch. There hasn't been a game there now for, what, 5 years? I'm beginning to fear that there'll never be another.

This would have been a pitch for Antrim, but not much use of the windfall money for the rest of us.

However, there is no reason why the pitch could not have been kept open while this planning etc was taking place. The pitch should not have been closed until they were ready to go, even if they didn't have any big games using all the capacity.

The stand in Casement required rewiring in order to obtain a safety certificate from the Belfast Council. It would have cost £10,000 to complete this.

As the funding was in place to develop the stadium the Antrim County Board decided against spending that type of money on a structure which was to be demolished as part of the new stadium build. As a result the safety certificate was not awarded and the ground closed as a result
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 18, 2016, 11:55:12 AM
Well it seems they have changed the design and rectified the safety end of things and the only real stumbling block is the residents objecting, I really can't see what their issue is. I know there is a handful that will be directly effected by the larger stands and those effected should be well reimbursed for their troubles but for the majority of the rest of them it's just being obtuse to what this can bring to their community. The new design will actually be better as the proposed lighting will not have the light spill that the current flood lights have and will not light half of West Belfast, think of the extra jobs it will bring and the facilities for their kids and grand kids as well as their community.

Only a crooked aul f**ker would object to the new design, Antrim Football and Hurling need this. Get it done.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 18, 2016, 02:42:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2016, 10:50:29 AMThis would have been a pitch for Antrim, but not much use of the windfall money for the rest of us.

Why?

Whats the material difference between that and what will be built? Roughly same capacity - only difference is there is more standing.

Which I see as a plus point.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 21, 2016, 07:08:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 29, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 29, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
Yup, that's what they really want so that they can then wallow in self pity
Dougal you have very strongly held opinions for someone who'll be in the place a couple of times a year. The residents will see it every day.

Genuine question does anyone know how many residents are still against it. I do object to the fact that it is assummed that all in Owenvarragh and Moorland are against it which is a lie and even some who were not overly happy were still thinking of taking compensation payments when the last design was proposed. Likewise plenty seem to just accuse the ARC of being a SF front - no idea who they are but maybe just maybe they actually are genuine.

Anyway the main reason I was posting is that at least a crumbling casement will make a good backdrop to a new short film about boxing in Belfast


(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1474729191/m3oqf3woagpykq1iwcnm.jpg)

(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1474729302/pslcpycpuwaerwnvl9fj.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 23, 2016, 11:20:48 AM
Shocking state all together...It looks like an old bombed site you'd see from Israel
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2016, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 23, 2016, 11:20:48 AM
Shocking state all together...It looks like an old bombed site you'd see from Israel

it is often said that in the public that nobody is held accountable, but who in the GAA is held accountable for this?  There was no reason why the ground could not have used in the meantime, for most types of games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2016, 02:40:57 PM
ulster council or antrim gaa?

probably no one in either actually...

The main guy left but looks more like he got a promotion than was pushed unless I'm wrong on that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 23, 2016, 02:42:04 PM
Ryan Feeney? He's at Queens now I think?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2016, 02:58:27 PM
Yeah.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on November 23, 2016, 03:59:04 PM
looks like my pation when i dont spay it . those weeds can come up mighty Quick
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 25, 2016, 01:02:17 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 23, 2016, 02:42:04 PM
Ryan Feeney? He's at Queens now I think?
Same team that has handled this still doing this maybe a shuffle or so. Same residents.  Let's get the thing built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 25, 2016, 12:53:46 PM
http://www.casementpark.ie/consultation-update/ (http://www.casementpark.ie/consultation-update/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on November 29, 2016, 10:04:30 AM
It could be a neutral space with no fleg according to the Irish News this morning. Aogan keen to move with the times.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 28, 2017, 11:36:52 PM
Heard some serial complainer Tony Diegan interviewed today about the revised plans which reduce capacity even further but they're still not happy. While the residents have rights so too does theGAA but it seems they're the only side prepared to compromise. Difficult to have any sympathy for them. Diegan sounds like a typical blow in busy body
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 01, 2017, 08:23:00 AM
I would say Casement was there before the vast majority of the residents though a fair few of the residents used to be happy enough on match days to direct traffic out their back and up a ladder over the fence for a small price.  Probably not fair to generalize though but surely if you buy a house beside a stadium you have a fair idea that there will be big crowds from time to time and the possibility of redevelopment.  Besides the most recent capacity would not have been far off the proposed capacity either.  And given where it is located I would be thinking better to get it redeveloped asap rather than it become a den of anti-social behaviour.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 01, 2017, 09:52:39 AM
There is no doubt that a few homes will be effected and they should be rewarded for their troubles but the problem with this is where does it stop/end...(if they got it i want it too). I think the residents should look more on the positives that the stadium will bring to the community rather than the negatives, there will be jobs for locals (hopefully), it will stop anti social behaviour in the area, it will look the part rather than the eyesore that's there at the minute and there will be facilities there for their kids/families and a bit of identity back to Antrim GAA.

You will never be able to please everyone and no matter what you do or bend over backwards they'll still have a problem with the design, if you made it a 10,000 capacity i guarantee someone would still have issues.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 01, 2017, 09:59:45 AM
Yeah but sure if you have your eyes on a handsome compensation then you would drive that right through to completion.  Soften your stance and your potential windfall will drop.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 01, 2017, 10:08:13 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 01, 2017, 09:52:39 AM
There is no doubt that a few homes will be effected and they should be rewarded for their troubles but the problem with this is where does it stop/end...(if they got it i want it too). I think the residents should look more on the positives that the stadium will bring to the community rather than the negatives, there will be jobs for locals (hopefully), it will stop anti social behaviour in the area, it will look the part rather than the eyesore that's there at the minute and there will be facilities there for their kids/families and a bit of identity back to Antrim GAA.

You will never be able to please everyone and no matter what you do or bend over backwards they'll still have a problem with the design, if you made it a 10,000 capacity i guarantee someone would still have issues.

Don't think there is much anti social behaviour in Andersonstown area
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 01, 2017, 10:14:30 AM
Was totally against the previous stadium design and general apathy towards the residents. However if the new design meets safety standards then I'm for it. If capacity was the issue then why did residents not complain previously? And how often will the 34k capacity be filled, apart from concerts ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Two Hands FFS on March 01, 2017, 10:52:07 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 01, 2017, 10:14:30 AM
Was totally against the previous stadium design and general apathy towards the residents. However if the new design meets safety standards then I'm for it. If capacity was the issue then why did residents not complain previously? And how often will the 34k capacity be filled, apart from concerts ;)
When Antrim play Dublin in the Super 8's  8) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on March 01, 2017, 11:15:40 AM
If one of the big issues for the residents was the capacity why wasnt it brought down by more than 4k?

Looks like this new design is purely to get past the safety aspect rather than being acceptable for the residents?

However and it is a big however many of the residents will continue to complain until the right amount of gold crosses their palm
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: PW Nally on March 01, 2017, 11:25:59 AM
Would you ever sort this out once and for all. Makes the water charges fiasco in the 26 seem like an Olympic 100 yard dash.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 01, 2017, 11:37:01 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 01, 2017, 11:15:40 AM
If one of the big issues for the residents was the capacity why wasnt it brought down by more than 4k?

Looks like this new design is purely to get past the safety aspect rather than being acceptable for the residents?

However and it is a big however many of the residents will continue to complain until the right amount of gold crosses their palm

Realistically the safety was the major hurdle - the residents are more like a yapping dog coming from behind the door of the house you happen to be standing beside as you are taking measurements for installing traffic calming along a street.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 01, 2017, 12:45:45 PM
On a side note Stephen McGeehan from Ulster Council looks like his head is about to burst in that photo in todays paper promoting it...lol. I know people put on weight but not usually on their head...The pressure of Casement :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BluestackBoy on March 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but at 34,000 this new stadium is no bigger capacity than Clones & is harder to get to for most Ulster supporters.

What is the point in this?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 01, 2017, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on March 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but at 34,000 this new stadium is no bigger capacity than Clones & is harder to get to for most Ulster supporters.

What is the point in this?

Politics

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Stall the Bailer on March 01, 2017, 01:17:23 PM
Modern facilities?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on March 01, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on March 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but at 34,000 this new stadium is no bigger capacity than Clones & is harder to get to for most Ulster supporters.

What is the point in this?

Would that be an accurate statement.

Clones better for Cavan,  Monaghan, Fermanagh, S Armagh, West Tryone, South Donegal
Casement better for Antrim, Derry, N Donegal, Down, North Armagh, East Tryone

So both would be 50 / 50, a northern stadium and a southern one

Does that not sound like a equal balanced solution 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 01, 2017, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on March 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but at 34,000 this new stadium is no bigger capacity than Clones & is harder to get to for most Ulster supporters.

What is the point in this?

Have you tried driving on the roads to Clones and if so would you say they are of the same standard at the M1?  Traffic being dispersed quicker from Belfast should see you home to many parts of the country quicker than from Clones.

Besides Clones is not in the '6 counties' where the money has been earmarked for - in fact strike that, the money has been earmarked for West Belfast so Casement is the only show in town so the merits or otherwise of any other location do not even come into it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 01, 2017, 01:24:53 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on March 01, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on March 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but at 34,000 this new stadium is no bigger capacity than Clones & is harder to get to for most Ulster supporters.

What is the point in this?

Would that be an accurate statement.

Clones better for Cavan,  Monaghan, Fermanagh, S Armagh, West Tryone, South Donegal
Casement better for Antrim, Derry, N Donegal, Down, North Armagh, East Tryone

So both would be 50 / 50, a northern stadium and a southern one

Does that not sound like a equal balanced solution

Plus probably handier from Dublin and hence much of the Republic.  Qualifier games and all that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 01, 2017, 02:40:03 PM
And when Antrim make the "Big 8" series.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2017, 02:51:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 01, 2017, 02:40:03 PM
And when  ;DAntrim make the "Big 8" series.

Along with the Rossies    ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on March 01, 2017, 03:01:25 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on March 01, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
Quote from: BluestackBoy on March 01, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but at 34,000 this new stadium is no bigger capacity than Clones & is harder to get to for most Ulster supporters.

What is the point in this?

Would that be an accurate statement.

Clones better for Cavan,  Monaghan, Fermanagh, S Armagh, West Tryone, South Donegal
Casement better for Antrim, Derry, N Donegal, Down, North Armagh, East Tryone

So both would be 50 / 50, a northern stadium and a southern one

Does that not sound like a equal balanced solution

much rather head to Clones personally.

Maybe mentioned before, but are gate receipts in the south tax exempt and not in the north?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 01, 2017, 04:59:49 PM
Residents want 25k? They do realise of the "old" Casement was much bigger? Their reasons for wanting it smaller don't stand up to scrutiny - emergency exits, traffic etc. Were they as concerned when the old stadium was operational?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 01, 2017, 05:13:33 PM
Quote from: general_lee on March 01, 2017, 04:59:49 PM
Residents want 25k? They do realise of the "old" Casement was much bigger? Their reasons for wanting it smaller don't stand up to scrutiny - emergency exits, traffic etc. Were they as concerned when the old stadium was operational?
There was only one stand and it wasn't looming over the local houses.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Mourne Rover on March 01, 2017, 10:32:03 PM
There is obviously an element of `build it and they will come' about the new Casement, but it is a fair point that the capacity of the old ground was seldom tested since the 1960s. Derry v Down in 1992, a clash between the reigning All Ireland champions and a side destined for the following year's title, got a massive crowd, probably in the vicinity of 30,000, but it is difficult to recall any match at the venue
since then which could not have accommodated within a 25,000 stadium. While there is talk of staging Super 8 ties at Casement, it all sounds a little vague as a reason for a 34,000 complex.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2017, 11:16:35 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on March 01, 2017, 10:32:03 PM
There is obviously an element of `build it and they will come' about the new Casement, but it is a fair point that the capacity of the old ground was seldom tested since the 1960s. Derry v Down in 1992, a clash between the reigning All Ireland champions and a side destined for the following year's title, got a massive crowd, probably in the vicinity of 30,000, but it is difficult to recall any match at the venue
since then which could not have accommodated within a 25,000 stadium. While there is talk of staging Super 8 ties at Casement, it all sounds a little vague as a reason for a 34,000 complex.

Armagh v Derry 2005 exceeded 25,000 and somewhat suggested a "Casement" crowd (as  Derry are not well supported).

The problem with Casement is its rather off centre location in Ireland generally (a bit like Wexford park or Killarney) and its location in a county with very limited support.  It is a good location for Down v Armagh Tyrone or Derry or Armagh/Tyrone v Derry and if some of these were going well it would test the capacity.  But it is no use for most games in a super 8.  But with a  capacity of 25000 it isn't much bigger than the run of Ulster county venues, and so hardly worth diverting games there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2017, 07:46:02 AM
Dublin east coast of Ireland. No good for Donegal Derry Kerry Clare Sligo Waterford Cork then? If you're talking logistics? Clones would have had same issues with the rest of the country as would Killarney Galwayand other counties that have sizeable grounds, it's getting built so move on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 02, 2017, 09:24:13 AM
Yeah Casement is the only show in town so not worth wasting energy debating the alternatives.  Better to look at the positives - Motorways to the North and South, Large City venue that can be multi-purpose and of course plenty of accommodation should it be required.  Someone mentioned Antrim are not well supported - they are also not very successful either so this should be a positive as it means Casement is a neutral venue for all the big games.

From an Antrim point of view a 10k stadium would have done us nicely - better for home games than a half empty stadium but as I say Casement is the only show in town as far as this spend is concerned so we may as well just suck it up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 09:32:07 AM
So if Donegal were to draw Dublin 'at home' in a Super 8 game, could you see the like of it in Casement? The Ulster Council might want all Ulster sides who get home games against the Dubs/Mayo/Kerry to play at Casement with the lure of adding to the coffers. It would leave county grounds as no more than white elephants. Another reason to sell off Celtic Park ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 02, 2017, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 09:32:07 AM
So if Donegal were to draw Dublin 'at home' in a Super 8 game, could you see the like of it in Casement? The Ulster Council might want all Ulster sides who get home games against the Dubs/Mayo/Kerry to play at Casement with the lure of adding to the coffers. It would leave county grounds as no more than white elephants. Another reason to sell off Celtic Park ;)

So in that situation with no Casement would the Donegal 'home' game then be played at Clones?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 02, 2017, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!

In a hypothetical world where Down can actually get to a Super 8 stage, I'd be pretty pissed off if the game wasn't in Newry.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 02, 2017, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!

In a hypothetical world where Down can actually get to a Super 8 stage, I'd be pretty pissed off if the game wasn't in Newry.

In Derry we'd be delighted if it was in Casement :)

Something we'll not have to worry about for a few years anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on March 02, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
If and when the stadium gets built, any high profile/ big gate will be in the new Casement regardless of the home preferences of the counties involved.

So for the foreseeable future Antrim's home ground will be hosting games not involving Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:17:25 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on March 02, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
If and when the stadium gets built, any high profile/ big gate will be in the new Casement regardless of the home preferences of the counties involved.

So for the foreseeable future Antrim's home ground will be hosting games not involving Antrim.

Exactly my point. It'll become Ulsters version of Croke Park. Pairc ui chaoimh will be the same. At least Casement looks good compared to that mess!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on March 02, 2017, 02:16:16 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:17:25 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on March 02, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
If and when the stadium gets built, any high profile/ big gate will be in the new Casement regardless of the home preferences of the counties involved.

So for the foreseeable future Antrim's home ground will be hosting games not involving Antrim.

Exactly my point. It'll become Ulsters version of Croke Park. Pairc ui chaoimh will be the same. At least Casement looks good compared to that mess!

But yet we Antrim people are being walked blindly through this to the Ulster Council's agenda.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 09:32:07 AM
So if Donegal were to draw Dublin 'at home' in a Super 8 game, could you see the like of it in Casement? The Ulster Council might want all Ulster sides who get home games against the Dubs/Mayo/Kerry to play at Casement with the lure of adding to the coffers. It would leave county grounds as no more than white elephants. Another reason to sell off Celtic Park ;)

I'm not sure if the county grounds could be considered white elephants on account of one game. And a super 8 against Tipperary would be in the county ground.
I'm not sure the GAA shoud get into the business of scheduling games where potential paying customers cannot get in, especially if they then put them only on foreign pay TV channels, it diminishes the sense of everyone being involved in the GAA which is one of its greatest strengths.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!

Aye i know...FFS i'd bring the Dubs to Muff (Or i suppose Malin is further but doesn't sound as good)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on March 02, 2017, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!

Aye i know...FFS i'd bring the Dubs to Muff (Or i suppose Malin is further but doesn't sound as good)

a trip to Muff is always a good option
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on March 02, 2017, 10:44:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
Casual observation. Quite a few wankers standing outside polling stations today, handing out propaganda.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on March 02, 2017, 11:21:44 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
Casual observation. Quite a few "Gaels for Casement" standing outside polling stations today, handing out Sinn Fein propaganda.

Yeah as I have said on this thread before, it's just a SF pressure group
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2017, 07:33:52 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
Casual observation. Quite a few "Gaels for Casement" standing outside polling stations today, handing out Sinn Fein propaganda.

Did that change your voting preferences??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on March 03, 2017, 07:46:29 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 02, 2017, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!

Aye i know...FFS i'd bring the Dubs to Muff (Or i suppose Malin is further but doesn't sound as good)

a trip to Muff is always a good option

Send the Dubs to Muff and they would end up in Killybegs!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2017, 11:25:55 PM
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/05/09/news/casement-park-emergency-bodies-concerns-not-highlighted-in-report-1020139/

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 09:04:25 AM
Parking is the issue for Casement.

I was at Balmoral Show yesterday evening and the area given over to car parking at the Maze is incredible, really enormous, and the traffic management in getting cars out of the area was very good.  It made me wonder how all that traffic was managed at the Kings Hall.

Around Casement the parking is at best cramped, at worst precarious and a proper nuisance for the residents. Traffic management is very poor with queues on the motorway to get into the cramped area for parking with junctions, roundabouts and traffic lights to slow down traffic moving in or out.

Having been to the Balmoral Show site for the first time, it was a major mistake not to avail of the offer to have a stadium away from the city but with its own facilities.  Casement is just a sop to the Shinners to get Windsor Park and Ravenhill renovated quickly.  BTW both are now finished and built to levels that ensure they can operate as often as possible with full capacity.

Figures have been released this week to show the attendances at Pro 12 rugby and it clearly shows the effect of the new stadium at Ravenhill on improving attendances in the relatively small stadium instead of the nonsense of a large stadium like Casement in a residential area instead of a large green or brown field site for proper parking and facilities.  Note how Munster rugby built a 28,000 seater and how small their average crowd size every 2 weeks in the season.  Casement will rarely be filled and most often will run at a loss with at most one third capacity.

(http://i.imgur.com/LwXGwHv.jpg)

BTW residents should make themselves ready for move of the music events from Boucher fields and Ormeau park to the planned stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2017, 10:56:40 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 09:04:25 AM
Parking is the issue for Casement.

I was at Balmoral Show yesterday evening and the area given over to car parking at the Maze is incredible, really enormous, and the traffic management in getting cars out of the area was very good.  It made me wonder how all that traffic was managed at the Kings Hall.

Around Casement the parking is at best cramped, at worst precarious and a proper nuisance for the residents. Traffic management is very poor with queues on the motorway to get into the cramped area for parking with junctions, roundabouts and traffic lights to slow down traffic moving in or out.

Having been to the Balmoral Show site for the first time, it was a major mistake not to avail of the offer to have a stadium away from the city but with its own facilities.  Casement is just a sop to the Shinners to get Windsor Park and Ravenhill renovated quickly.  BTW both are now finished and built to levels that ensure they can operate as often as possible with full capacity.

Figures have been released this week to show the attendances at Pro 12 rugby and it clearly shows the effect of the new stadium at Ravenhill on improving attendances in the relatively small stadium instead of the nonsense of a large stadium like Casement in a residential area instead of a large green or brown field site for proper parking and facilities.  Note how Munster rugby built a 28,000 seater and how small their average crowd size every 2 weeks in the season.  Casement will rarely be filled and most often will run at a loss with at most one third capacity.

(http://i.imgur.com/LwXGwHv.jpg)

BTW residents should make themselves ready for move of the music events from Boucher fields and Ormeau park to the planned stadium.

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.
The anti casement crowd one minute argue that it will rarely be used and will never be filled, next minute they argue that 40000 people will be there every week causing traffic chaos with dozens of concerts every year upsetting everyone. So could someone please tell me will it busy or not you cant argue for both at the same time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on May 12, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2017, 10:56:40 AM

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.

Munster have played 10 games in Musgrave Park over the last 3 seasons - hardly a lot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2017, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 12, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2017, 10:56:40 AM

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.

Munster have played 10 games in Musgrave Park over the last 3 seasons - hardly a lot.

10 out of 33 home games is certainly significant if you are talking about capacities seeing as musgrave is 16000 lower than Thomond
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 07:38:26 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2017, 05:24:16 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 12, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2017, 10:56:40 AM

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.

Munster have played 10 games in Musgrave Park over the last 3 seasons - hardly a lot.

10 out of 33 home games is certainly significant if you are talking about capacities seeing as musgrave is 16000 lower than Thomond

That reinforces my point.  For a third of Munster's games, Thomond Park, a 28,000 seater, was empty.  Even Musgrave Park wasn't filled on the occasions on which it was used. (The figures also show the myth of the massive support for Munster when for the last four seasons they have had lower average attendances than Ulster.) 

I made the point about the small numbers attending the majority of games for a major stadium costing the N.Ireland public at least £80m and complained about the traffic issues on the few occasions in the year when the stadium might reach full capacity.  Both are legitimate arguments in relation to Casement Park and the nonsense of both GAA and Assembly playing to the SF tune by spending £80m on a white elephant on the Andersontown Road instead of going for an imaginative solution of having a mini Croke Park somewhere else in N.Ireland to really meet the needs of GAA supporters in all 9 counties of Ulster.

BTW SF should have supported the Maze project for the GAA stadium as it would have formed the infrastructure for their plan for a peace and reconciliation museum at the prison.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on June 06, 2017, 01:50:12 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
This is incorrect.

Both UR and the IFA agreed to migrate to the Maze - the then IFA CEO, Howard Wells, confirmed as such in a letter to the Sports Minister, Edwin Poots, in 2007:
"May I reiterate the IFA's position. On 20 January 2006 we made a commitment to work with central government to deliver a new multi-purpose stadium on the site of the Maze with certain caveats - that the business plan proved viable; that the planned infrastructure at the site was conducive to promoting sport; that government would commit to maintaining Windsor Park at viable levels in the interim and that the Licence Agreement between the IFA and Linfield FC could be resolved."
He went on:
"So, further procrastination has the potential to lead us nowhere other than down a blind alley. There appears to be no commitment from the public or private sectors to fund a Belfast located stadium in the foreseeable future, or to pay for the refit of Windsor Park. It is unlikely that any Belfast driven initiative will sit well with the concept of a shared future. The IFA is very keen to work with the other two sports to drive change and to market sport across all the sections of the community."
And:
"Thirteen of the sixteen senior clubs are totally supportive of a stadium being built at the Maze. It is within an hour of almost all destinations in Northern Ireland. The MORI poll commissioned by the IFA in 2005 suggested that there was support for a new stadium at the Maze and from families and females who currently do not attend."

Now Wells was certainly a politician (small "p"), and such a view was unpopular with NI football fans. Nonetheless, this was the IFA's official position right up until the project was canned.

And further, the stadium was canned not due to "Unionist intransigence" (though there were disputes over issues like the Museum etc); rather it was entirely due to DCAL's civil servants concluding that the business case for a Maze stadium did not add up, therefore public money could/should not be spent for this purpose.

Instead, it was agreed to split the money up between the three bodies to spend on individual stadia in Belfast. UR appears to be happy with the revamped Ravenhill and the IFA, organisation and fans, are happy with the rebuilt Windsor (even if some now feel its capacity is too small).

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2017, 07:05:56 AM
Ah Evil Genius, welcome back.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on June 19, 2017, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 06, 2017, 01:50:12 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
This is incorrect.

Both UR and the IFA agreed to migrate to the Maze - the then IFA CEO, Howard Wells, confirmed as such in a letter to the Sports Minister, Edwin Poots, in 2007:
"May I reiterate the IFA's position. On 20 January 2006 we made a commitment to work with central government to deliver a new multi-purpose stadium on the site of the Maze with certain caveats - that the business plan proved viable; that the planned infrastructure at the site was conducive to promoting sport; that government would commit to maintaining Windsor Park at viable levels in the interim and that the Licence Agreement between the IFA and Linfield FC could be resolved."
He went on:
"So, further procrastination has the potential to lead us nowhere other than down a blind alley. There appears to be no commitment from the public or private sectors to fund a Belfast located stadium in the foreseeable future, or to pay for the refit of Windsor Park. It is unlikely that any Belfast driven initiative will sit well with the concept of a shared future. The IFA is very keen to work with the other two sports to drive change and to market sport across all the sections of the community."
And:
"Thirteen of the sixteen senior clubs are totally supportive of a stadium being built at the Maze. It is within an hour of almost all destinations in Northern Ireland. The MORI poll commissioned by the IFA in 2005 suggested that there was support for a new stadium at the Maze and from families and females who currently do not attend."

Now Wells was certainly a politician (small "p"), and such a view was unpopular with NI football fans. Nonetheless, this was the IFA's official position right up until the project was canned.

And further, the stadium was canned not due to "Unionist intransigence" (though there were disputes over issues like the Museum etc); rather it was entirely due to DCAL's civil servants concluding that the business case for a Maze stadium did not add up, therefore public money could/should not be spent for this purpose.

Instead, it was agreed to split the money up between the three bodies to spend on individual stadia in Belfast. UR appears to be happy with the revamped Ravenhill and the IFA, organisation and fans, are happy with the rebuilt Windsor (even if some now feel its capacity is too small).

Complete c0ck. A lame attempt to rewrite history.

The truth is simple. And the simple truth is that the Maze shared stadium was torpedoed by Unionist opposition. The three sports bodies had agreed to a share a single stadium, but it was grassroots pressure on the DUP from the likes of the NI Supporters and EvilGenius that led the DUP to scupper the plans. The fear of playing NI games in a half empty bowl haunted them.

Here's a refresher from The Guardian, summarises it perfectly:

Minister to bar national sports stadium at Maze

· Unionists opposed £140m scheme at former prison
· Decision is blow to SDLP and Sinn Féin

A plan to build a £140m national sports stadium on the site of the Maze prison in Northern Ireland is to be abandoned amid opposition from unionists.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam  (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stephenite on June 19, 2017, 09:29:19 PM
Was in Belfast the other day for the first time in donkeys years, I noted that the stands of the oval were still there, are Glentoran still playing there? Do Cliftonvlle still play at Solitude? Is Seaview still open for Crusaders?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lenny on June 19, 2017, 09:43:13 PM
Quote from: stephenite on June 19, 2017, 09:29:19 PM
Was in Belfast the other day for the first time in donkeys years, I noted that the stands of the oval were still there, are Glentoran still playing there? Do Cliftonvlle still play at Solitude? Is Seaview still open for Crusaders?

Yes
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on June 20, 2017, 12:46:26 AM
Quote from: snatter on June 19, 2017, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 06, 2017, 01:50:12 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
This is incorrect.

Both UR and the IFA agreed to migrate to the Maze - the then IFA CEO, Howard Wells, confirmed as such in a letter to the Sports Minister, Edwin Poots, in 2007:
"May I reiterate the IFA's position. On 20 January 2006 we made a commitment to work with central government to deliver a new multi-purpose stadium on the site of the Maze with certain caveats - that the business plan proved viable; that the planned infrastructure at the site was conducive to promoting sport; that government would commit to maintaining Windsor Park at viable levels in the interim and that the Licence Agreement between the IFA and Linfield FC could be resolved."
He went on:
"So, further procrastination has the potential to lead us nowhere other than down a blind alley. There appears to be no commitment from the public or private sectors to fund a Belfast located stadium in the foreseeable future, or to pay for the refit of Windsor Park. It is unlikely that any Belfast driven initiative will sit well with the concept of a shared future. The IFA is very keen to work with the other two sports to drive change and to market sport across all the sections of the community."
And:
"Thirteen of the sixteen senior clubs are totally supportive of a stadium being built at the Maze. It is within an hour of almost all destinations in Northern Ireland. The MORI poll commissioned by the IFA in 2005 suggested that there was support for a new stadium at the Maze and from families and females who currently do not attend."

Now Wells was certainly a politician (small "p"), and such a view was unpopular with NI football fans. Nonetheless, this was the IFA's official position right up until the project was canned.

And further, the stadium was canned not due to "Unionist intransigence" (though there were disputes over issues like the Museum etc); rather it was entirely due to DCAL's civil servants concluding that the business case for a Maze stadium did not add up, therefore public money could/should not be spent for this purpose.

Instead, it was agreed to split the money up between the three bodies to spend on individual stadia in Belfast. UR appears to be happy with the revamped Ravenhill and the IFA, organisation and fans, are happy with the rebuilt Windsor (even if some now feel its capacity is too small).

Complete c0ck. A lame attempt to rewrite history.

The truth is simple. And the simple truth is that the Maze shared stadium was torpedoed by Unionist opposition. The three sports bodies had agreed to a share a single stadium, but it was grassroots pressure on the DUP from the likes of the NI Supporters and EvilGenius that led the DUP to scupper the plans. The fear of playing NI games in a half empty bowl haunted them.

Here's a refresher from The Guardian, summarises it perfectly:

Minister to bar national sports stadium at Maze

· Unionists opposed £140m scheme at former prison
· Decision is blow to SDLP and Sinn Féin

A plan to build a £140m national sports stadium on the site of the Maze prison in Northern Ireland is to be abandoned amid opposition from unionists.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam  (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam)
Your "truth" may be simple, but I prefer to deal in facts.

First, I was responding to 'Owen Brannigan' when he claimed that "it was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia". And whatever the position of the GAA and UR, neither of whom was in desperate need, the IFA had no choice, since Windsor was deemed unfit by FIFA to stage international matches (it had been living on borrowed time as it was). And in the absence of any alternative (neither Ravenhill nor Casement met FIFA requirements), they would be forced to play their "home" games outside of NI. Therefore they were entirely dependant upon what was on offer from HMG, i.e. the Maze. Which explains the Wells letter I quoted.
As for opposition by NI fans and me(!), if you imagine that the IFA were listening to the fans, then you're deluded, seriously deluded! Or did you not actually read the Wells letter, where he claimed it was supported by the fans?

Second, the position of "Unionists" was decidedly mixed. Edwin Poots, for example, was all for a redevelopment of the Maze, including the stadium - it was in his constituency, after all. And colleagues in the DUP also recognised that the proposed stadium was only one element of a potentially huge regeneration project for the site (houses, retail, industry etc), which would be in a majority Unionist area.

However, it was without question a recommendation by civil servants in DCAL in 2008/09 that the Stadium would not be economically feasible on that site which ultimately scuppered it.

Which explains why as late as September 2012, Peter Robinson was still pursuing the redevelopment of the site by appointing his old buddy, Terence Branigan, to be Chairman of the Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19543575 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19543575)

Which is not to say that the Conflict Transformation Centre wasn't controversial - Jim Allister referred to "The 180-degree turn which the DUP has perfected on the Maze Shrine" - and therefore a complicating factor. But following the Crash of 2008, the whole project ultimately collapsed before it ever got built, because the private investment element necessary to the project's overall success was not forthcoming.

P.S. Of course NI fans were opposed to playing in a half empty bowl in a field in the middle of nowhere - but that was nothing to do with sharing with the other tenants. After all, if you're playing in a stadium on a Saturday evening, why should it matter if the rugby boys had played there the previous Friday evening, or the GAA boys would be playing the following Sunday afternoon? Fact is, it would have been entirely unsuitable for our needs, as the subsequent successful redevelopment of WP at significantly lower cost has demonstrated.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lar Naparka on June 20, 2017, 01:46:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2017, 07:05:56 AM
Ah Evil Genius, welcome back.
+1
I hope you stay around; you were missed. ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on June 20, 2017, 03:22:50 AM
Crawler. He's a one trick pony and he's better well away
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stephenite on June 20, 2017, 03:36:10 AM
Quote from: lenny on June 19, 2017, 09:43:13 PM
Quote from: stephenite on June 19, 2017, 09:29:19 PM
Was in Belfast the other day for the first time in donkeys years, I noted that the stands of the oval were still there, are Glentoran still playing there? Do Cliftonvlle still play at Solitude? Is Seaview still open for Crusaders?

Yes

Lunacy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on June 20, 2017, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 20, 2017, 12:46:26 AM
Quote from: snatter on June 19, 2017, 06:59:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on June 06, 2017, 01:50:12 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 12, 2017, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
This is incorrect.

Both UR and the IFA agreed to migrate to the Maze - the then IFA CEO, Howard Wells, confirmed as such in a letter to the Sports Minister, Edwin Poots, in 2007:
"May I reiterate the IFA's position. On 20 January 2006 we made a commitment to work with central government to deliver a new multi-purpose stadium on the site of the Maze with certain caveats - that the business plan proved viable; that the planned infrastructure at the site was conducive to promoting sport; that government would commit to maintaining Windsor Park at viable levels in the interim and that the Licence Agreement between the IFA and Linfield FC could be resolved."
He went on:
"So, further procrastination has the potential to lead us nowhere other than down a blind alley. There appears to be no commitment from the public or private sectors to fund a Belfast located stadium in the foreseeable future, or to pay for the refit of Windsor Park. It is unlikely that any Belfast driven initiative will sit well with the concept of a shared future. The IFA is very keen to work with the other two sports to drive change and to market sport across all the sections of the community."
And:
"Thirteen of the sixteen senior clubs are totally supportive of a stadium being built at the Maze. It is within an hour of almost all destinations in Northern Ireland. The MORI poll commissioned by the IFA in 2005 suggested that there was support for a new stadium at the Maze and from families and females who currently do not attend."

Now Wells was certainly a politician (small "p"), and such a view was unpopular with NI football fans. Nonetheless, this was the IFA's official position right up until the project was canned.

And further, the stadium was canned not due to "Unionist intransigence" (though there were disputes over issues like the Museum etc); rather it was entirely due to DCAL's civil servants concluding that the business case for a Maze stadium did not add up, therefore public money could/should not be spent for this purpose.

Instead, it was agreed to split the money up between the three bodies to spend on individual stadia in Belfast. UR appears to be happy with the revamped Ravenhill and the IFA, organisation and fans, are happy with the rebuilt Windsor (even if some now feel its capacity is too small).

Complete c0ck. A lame attempt to rewrite history.

The truth is simple. And the simple truth is that the Maze shared stadium was torpedoed by Unionist opposition. The three sports bodies had agreed to a share a single stadium, but it was grassroots pressure on the DUP from the likes of the NI Supporters and EvilGenius that led the DUP to scupper the plans. The fear of playing NI games in a half empty bowl haunted them.

Here's a refresher from The Guardian, summarises it perfectly:

Minister to bar national sports stadium at Maze

· Unionists opposed £140m scheme at former prison
· Decision is blow to SDLP and Sinn Féin

A plan to build a £140m national sports stadium on the site of the Maze prison in Northern Ireland is to be abandoned amid opposition from unionists.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam  (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam)
Your "truth" may be simple, but I prefer to deal in facts.

First, I was responding to 'Owen Brannigan' when he claimed that "it was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia". And whatever the position of the GAA and UR, neither of whom was in desperate need, the IFA had no choice, since Windsor was deemed unfit by FIFA to stage international matches (it had been living on borrowed time as it was). And in the absence of any alternative (neither Ravenhill nor Casement met FIFA requirements), they would be forced to play their "home" games outside of NI. Therefore they were entirely dependant upon what was on offer from HMG, i.e. the Maze. Which explains the Wells letter I quoted.
As for opposition by NI fans and me(!), if you imagine that the IFA were listening to the fans, then you're deluded, seriously deluded! Or did you not actually read the Wells letter, where he claimed it was supported by the fans?

Second, the position of "Unionists" was decidedly mixed. Edwin Poots, for example, was all for a redevelopment of the Maze, including the stadium - it was in his constituency, after all. And colleagues in the DUP also recognised that the proposed stadium was only one element of a potentially huge regeneration project for the site (houses, retail, industry etc), which would be in a majority Unionist area.

However, it was without question a recommendation by civil servants in DCAL in 2008/09 that the Stadium would not be economically feasible on that site which ultimately scuppered it.

Which explains why as late as September 2012, Peter Robinson was still pursuing the redevelopment of the site by appointing his old buddy, Terence Branigan, to be Chairman of the Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19543575 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19543575)

Which is not to say that the Conflict Transformation Centre wasn't controversial - Jim Allister referred to "The 180-degree turn which the DUP has perfected on the Maze Shrine" - and therefore a complicating factor. But following the Crash of 2008, the whole project ultimately collapsed before it ever got built, because the private investment element necessary to the project's overall success was not forthcoming.

P.S. Of course NI fans were opposed to playing in a half empty bowl in a field in the middle of nowhere - but that was nothing to do with sharing with the other tenants. After all, if you're playing in a stadium on a Saturday evening, why should it matter if the rugby boys had played there the previous Friday evening, or the GAA boys would be playing the following Sunday afternoon? Fact is, it would have been entirely unsuitable for our needs, as the subsequent successful redevelopment of WP at significantly lower cost has demonstrated.

None of which alters the simple truth - the Maze shared stadium was torpedoed by Unionists.

From The Guardian report - https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam

QuoteBut the two main unionist parties - with some individual exceptions - were opposed to the project. Some soccer supporters' clubs have also campaigned against it.

Senior sources inside Robinson's Democratic Unionist party said the Maze stadium was "dead in the water". The DUP has refused officially to comment, but one DUP source said: "It will come within the next four weeks, probably before Peter moves from finance to the office of first minister. It will be a popular move within the party, the majority of whom hate the idea of building a national stadium anywhere near a shrine to terrorists.

"The party has also been listening to the majority of Northern Ireland football fans, who are resolutely opposed to moving to the Maze."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 21, 2017, 10:27:12 AM
There was not much love within the wider GAA (outside of the Ulster Council) for a so called national stadium. I for one am glad it did not proceed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on June 22, 2017, 12:54:03 AM
Quote from: snatter on June 20, 2017, 09:00:26 PM
None of which alters the simple truth - the Maze shared stadium was torpedoed by Unionists.
That may be technically correct, in that any such stadium had to be agreed by all four main parties before it could go ahead.

But such a narrow interpretation is highly misleading. For the real reason why the stadium was scrapped was because the civil servants in the Dept. of Finance at Stormont (not DCAL) determined that it was not financially viable. I know, because I heard that directly from someone who works there and it was alluded to publicly at the time.

Consequently, all the other disagreements over the stadium were irrelevant.

And if you examine the stadium story in its entirety, hindsight shows the civil servants were quite correct.

First, Westminster having "gifted" the Maze site to NI as a kind of "GFA dowry", it was further acknowledged that sports stadia in NI were very outdated. Therefore Westminster determined to boost the Maze's chances of succeeding by "killing two birds with one stone" and insisting that a new multi-sports stadium be sited there. (They went through an exercise in considering other stadium sites eg North Foreshore and TQ etc, but those were never a runner, esp when the cost of site purchase was included). Finally, they came up with the concept of "shared space" to make it seem politically desirable.

However, when the initial PR spin was properly examined, the stadium was never going to pay its way. For one thing, the estimated construction cost grew rapidly. Second, they realised that the cost of upgrading access (motorways and rail etc) would have to be added to the stadium bill. And thereafter, they realised that the venue would not be used nearly so often as its proponents claimed, so would not cover the operating costs, never mind repay the build costs.

For example, iirc Ulster Rugby never actually guaranteed they'd play all their games there, since the IRFU own Ravenhill, and so didn't want to undermine their own property. (Besides, 42k was far too big for them) And the fact that Ulster GAA has been able to manage without either Casement or the Maze for all these years shows how little need there actually was from that quarter. Meanwhile, NI only play half a dozen internationals at home each year (max), and at that time were struggling to achieve 5 figure crowds. (In their desperation, it was asserted that a number of domestic club games could be played at the Maze, games which normally attract 2k or 3k max!). Whereas subsequent experience at the redeveloped 18k Windsor has proved that 42k was far too big for football, esp at a hard-to-access stadium, in an unsuitable location, with the spectators miles from the action on a pitch big enough to accommodate Gaelic sports.

And as for all those huge pop concerts that would be staged there... bonkers!

Of course, the stadium was only one aspect of a project which was hoped to attract numerous new industries, leisure/retail facilities and housing etc, and create thousands of jobs. So that even after the stadium was scrapped (early 2009), the politicians at Stormont were still proceeding with the wider project (see the Robinson/Brannigan link, above).

And in the course of that,  there was a great deal of "politicking" along the way (CTC/Terrorist Shrine, delete as prejudices dictate). Then again, it is NI we're talking about!

But in the end, the overall project also failed to get off the ground, essentially because it was always going to require a huge amount of private investment, investment which was never going to be forthcoming after the economic Crash of 2007/08.

Still, the RUAS signed up to it, so it wasn't a complete failure...  ;)

"Here endeth today's Lesson"  :)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on June 22, 2017, 12:27:30 PM
Where is the new Casement project now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 22, 2017, 12:27:30 PM
Where is the new Casement project now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/40626843

New design looks fantastic. Lets hope everyone gets what they want out of this and it moves ahead!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hectic on July 18, 2017, 02:11:44 PM
Yeah watched the fly through.  Mighty impressive stadium on the way by the looks of it.  Cannot wait to take in a game there.  Obviously not as big as Croke but as things stand it will be a unique design for Gaelic Games which should hopefully ensure fantastic atmospheres.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OgraAnDun on July 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Given Down's recent record in Clones, the sooner Casement is built the better. It certainly looks the part and I like the terraced end that has a roof over it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on July 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Given Down's recent record in Clones, the sooner Casement is built the better. It certainly looks the part and I like the terraced end that has a roof over it.

Derry fans would be in the same boat Ogra. Casement more a home to South Derry fans than Celtic Park ever was! Que the abuse from the North Derry madmen ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 18, 2017, 02:48:46 PM
The showed the video at Clones, that's a bit like showing the old wife a video of the new girlfriend.

presumably https://youtu.be/KFSp3g9gquA
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on July 18, 2017, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on July 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Given Down's recent record in Clones, the sooner Casement is built the better. It certainly looks the part and I like the terraced end that has a roof over it.

Derry fans would be in the same boat Ogra. Casement more a home to South Derry fans than Celtic Park ever was! Que the abuse from the North Derry madmen ;)

Why put a wink at the end of it as you aren't joking. Most in south county Derry don't have an affinity with anywhere north of the Sperrins, especially not Derry City. The road to Derry City is shite so nobody goes there for shopping or entertainment and most in south Derry don't work there as the jobs are in Belfast. That's a product of almost a century of Stormont concentrating its growth around Belfast and actively prohibiting growth west of the Bann. Public money being pumped into three Belfast stadiums is just another example of that. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on July 18, 2017, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on July 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Given Down's recent record in Clones, the sooner Casement is built the better. It certainly looks the part and I like the terraced end that has a roof over it.

Derry fans would be in the same boat Ogra. Casement more a home to South Derry fans than Celtic Park ever was! Que the abuse from the North Derry madmen ;)

Why put a wink at the end of it as you aren't joking. Most in south county Derry don't have an affinity with anywhere north of the Sperrins, especially not Derry City. The road to Derry City is shite so nobody goes there for shopping or entertainment and most in south Derry don't work there as the jobs are in Belfast. That's a product of almost a century of Stormont concentrating its growth around Belfast and actively prohibiting growth west of the Bann. Public money being pumped into three Belfast stadiums is just another example of that. 

Count to 10 and breath Oakleaf
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on July 18, 2017, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on July 18, 2017, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on July 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Given Down's recent record in Clones, the sooner Casement is built the better. It certainly looks the part and I like the terraced end that has a roof over it.

Derry fans would be in the same boat Ogra. Casement more a home to South Derry fans than Celtic Park ever was! Que the abuse from the North Derry madmen ;)

Why put a wink at the end of it as you aren't joking. Most in south county Derry don't have an affinity with anywhere north of the Sperrins, especially not Derry City. The road to Derry City is shite so nobody goes there for shopping or entertainment and most in south Derry don't work there as the jobs are in Belfast. That's a product of almost a century of Stormont concentrating its growth around Belfast and actively prohibiting growth west of the Bann. Public money being pumped into three Belfast stadiums is just another example of that. 

Count to 10 and breath Oakleaf

You said people in South Derry feel more at home in Belfast than Derry. I just pointed out some of the reasons why that's the case. Nobody's getting agitated here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 03:34:01 PM
My wink was aimed at Tickle and a few of the other Derry City posters on here. Have a nice day pal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thefont on July 18, 2017, 03:37:16 PM
Looks Amazing well done Ulster Gaa!

Two questions occur to me.

1 - When are we going to get our mighty stadium in the Wesht? Or can we look forward in perpetuity to being "blashted out of it and drownded" in our black triangle of concrete sh$tholes - McHale, Pearse and "the" Hyde. I don't know about the McHale fella but there's a few good Irishmen having their names taken in vain by the GAA there.

2 -  PUC, why in the name of God? Hopefully the last of the Gombeen stadia.

Maybe we'll get a Connacht final up in Belfast, would be a good day out!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on July 18, 2017, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on July 18, 2017, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 18, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on July 18, 2017, 02:21:27 PM
Given Down's recent record in Clones, the sooner Casement is built the better. It certainly looks the part and I like the terraced end that has a roof over it.

Derry fans would be in the same boat Ogra. Casement more a home to South Derry fans than Celtic Park ever was! Que the abuse from the North Derry madmen ;)

Why put a wink at the end of it as you aren't joking. Most in south county Derry don't have an affinity with anywhere north of the Sperrins, especially not Derry City. The road to Derry City is shite so nobody goes there for shopping or entertainment and most in south Derry don't work there as the jobs are in Belfast. That's a product of almost a century of Stormont concentrating its growth around Belfast and actively prohibiting growth west of the Bann. Public money being pumped into three Belfast stadiums is just another example of that.

you could move CP  in behind Jamesies and we'd still be outnumbered by 31 other counties. Would any other county have a bigger bandwagon though?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 10, 2017, 09:17:46 PM
Is this not the height of nonsense - Maze site to be used as a park and ride for Casement Park?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/)

Surely, the entire development should have been located here and resolving all problems.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2017, 09:59:14 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 10, 2017, 09:17:46 PM
Is this not the height of nonsense - Maze site to be used as a park and ride for Casement Park?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/)

Surely, the entire development should have been located here and resolving all problems.

But the Maze isn't Casement, Belfast! I don't understand after all this time that people can't see that the money is allocated to Casement and Casement only!!

Move on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 10, 2017, 10:03:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2017, 09:59:14 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 10, 2017, 09:17:46 PM
Is this not the height of nonsense - Maze site to be used as a park and ride for Casement Park?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/)

Surely, the entire development should have been located here and resolving all problems.

But the Maze isn't Casement, Belfast! I don't understand after all this time that people can't see that the money is allocated to Casement and Casement only!!

Move on

If stormont collapses will they even get the money for the stadium. It was ring fenced but if there is no executive will that money be paid out (if they even get the planning permission ffs)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 10, 2017, 09:17:46 PM
Is this not the height of nonsense - Maze site to be used as a park and ride for Casement Park?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/)

Surely, the entire development should have been located here and resolving all problems.

Casement is something of a white elephant, but putting it in the arse end of nowhere would make it even worse.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 10, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Time to give up on Casement.

Either expand Armagh or build a new stadium that's handy for all Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 11, 2017, 08:43:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 10, 2017, 09:17:46 PM
Is this not the height of nonsense - Maze site to be used as a park and ride for Casement Park?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/ (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/10/news/casement-park-maze-transport-plans-cannot-go-ahead-without-stormont-executive-1157496/)

Surely, the entire development should have been located here and resolving all problems.

Casement is something of a white elephant, but putting it in the arse end of nowhere would make it even worse.

But to build a park and ride for Casement Park at the Maze site as planned by the GAA is the greatest nonsense of this foolish scheme which has shown Ulster GAA and SF when holding the ministerial portfolio to appear to be largely incapable of managing and delivering a large scale project to produce a single football stadium within a reasonable time frame.  In the meantime, Ulster Rugby have planned, built and used an excellent 18,000 capacity stadium in a residential area, IFA have rebuilt and used Windsor Park with a similar capacity also in a residential area and Munster GAA have knocked down and rebuilt Páirc Uí Chaoimh in a two year period with a capacity of 45,000.

BTW the planned park and ride at the Maze for Casement Park will cause a major problem for SF as a direct connection to the site from the M1 will be required and this has been blocked by SF because its DUP partners in government had blocked money for a visitor attraction at the Maze site.  Will SF hold out on this road connection when the GAA needs it to build Casement Park, eventually.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
Is there park and ride facilities for Croke Park or the Aviva?

If Casement was still in operation would a new park and ride be required??

Surely improving links to Great Victoria/Central station would be more appropriate?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on October 11, 2017, 10:30:06 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
Is there park and ride facilities for Croke Park or the Aviva?

If Casement was still in operation would a new park and ride be required??

Surely improving links to Great Victoria/Central station would be more appropriate?
no officail park and ride though a local college and school open their premises in a semi official way as in the gaa tell people they are there but do nothing for them . an example of this is oconnel schoold have a walkway  ou the back of the car park leading directly into Croke Park but Croke park object to them opening it cause about a 15 minute walk around instead .
Dublin coulcil do everything they can to make Visits as unpleasant as possible promising to clamp any one street parked within a mile and a half of Croker
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 11, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
Is there park and ride facilities for Croke Park or the Aviva?

If Casement was still in operation would a new park and ride be required??

Surely improving links to Great Victoria/Central station would be more appropriate?


The use of the Maze as a park and ride for Casement Park is part of the planning application from Ulster GAA for building of the new stadium.  Most likely as a way to mitigate the huge parking issues for a 30,000 stadium.

Ulster Rugby uses three adjacent school premises for parking, providing free bus service to one of them situated a bit further from the stadium and runs free bus from parking in the city centre.  Windsor park uses the parking areas along the Boucher Road and it has direct train link to city centre in one direction and to the west in the other direction using station at Adelaide Halt.

If the stadium is ever built then the new Rapid Transit system for Belfast will operate along the Andersonstown Road to the city centre, 'similar' provision as the Dart at the Aviva.

No additional parking requirement could be enforced if Casement Park was still in operation and no changes requiring planning or new safety regulations were made.  Once you got to planning then new conditions can be brought in.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 11, 2017, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on October 11, 2017, 10:30:06 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
Is there park and ride facilities for Croke Park or the Aviva?

If Casement was still in operation would a new park and ride be required??

Surely improving links to Great Victoria/Central station would be more appropriate?
no officail park and ride though a local college and school open their premises in a semi official way as in the gaa tell people they are there but do nothing for them . an example of this is oconnel schoold have a walkway  ou the back of the car park leading directly into Croke Park but Croke park object to them opening it cause about a 15 minute walk around instead .
Dublin coulcil do everything they can to make Visits as unpleasant as possible promising to clamp any one street parked within a mile and a half of Croker

You have to know where to park. I've parked with 700m of Croker on AI final day no problem, follow the on street parking signs and you can't go wrong.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 11, 2017, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Time to give up on Casement.

Either expand Armagh or build a new stadium that's handy for all Ulster.
I'm starting to agree with this. I'd scratch the plans for 30k at Casement and redevelop on a much smaller scale, maybe a 10k facility to suit Antrim's needs. I see they are playing their county final in Glenavy ::) they've gone long enough without a decent stadium to cater for club finals and county games. The SF wet dream of a major stadium in west Belfast is costing too much and the longer it goes on the less I want to see it. Even the people in west Belfast don't seem too fussed so pull the plug and give the GAA a lump sum to develop other provincial stadia where they'll be appreciated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 12:38:23 PM
Sure this stadium is for concerts and maybe the Belfast franchise of professional GAA in 2030 ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2017, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
Is there park and ride facilities for Croke Park or the Aviva?

If Casement was still in operation would a new park and ride be required??

Surely improving links to Great Victoria/Central station would be more appropriate?
No, in the same way as Ravenhill, Aviva and Croke Park cars are abandoned in the closest residential streets. The proximity of Casement to the roundabout at the top of Kennedy Way makes it is even more difficult to accommodate even a modest increase in capacity so there would need to be wholesale infrastructure changes in the area. All not worth the hassle for Casement imo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Atticus_Finch on October 11, 2017, 01:48:41 PM
I'm sure this has been posted before but could any kind soul tell me what the actual status of the proposed plans are and what the envisaged timelines involved are, please.

Last I heard, Casement was still part of the Rugby World Cup Proposal plans.

Have revised plans been submitted for approval and if so when are they due to get the decision on it ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 11, 2017, 02:29:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2017, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 11, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
Is there park and ride facilities for Croke Park or the Aviva?

If Casement was still in operation would a new park and ride be required??

Surely improving links to Great Victoria/Central station would be more appropriate?
No, in the same way as Ravenhill, Aviva and Croke Park cars are abandoned in the closest residential streets. The proximity of Casement to the roundabout at the top of Kennedy Way makes it is even more difficult to accommodate even a modest increase in capacity so there would need to be wholesale infrastructure changes in the area. All not worth the hassle for Casement imo.

Now there is no roundabout and the Rapid Transit system will take away two of the lanes for cars so no parking anywhere on the road. Hence, the park and ride from the Maze site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 11, 2017, 03:27:30 PM
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on October 11, 2017, 01:48:41 PM
I'm sure this has been posted before but could any kind soul tell me what the actual status of the proposed plans are and what the envisaged timelines involved are, please.

Last I heard, Casement was still part of the Rugby World Cup Proposal plans.

Have revised plans been submitted for approval and if so when are they due to get the decision on it ?

There was definitely a redesign with a reduced capacity something like 34000 and a reduced height of the stadium but were they are regarding planning permission is anyones guess it seems to be moving backwards despite the alleged cost accumulating with each passing week.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 06:55:25 PM
What's happening with the site where Andytown leisure centre is? New centre or housing? Does the back of it reach down to the motorway?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 11, 2017, 08:05:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 06:55:25 PM
What's happening with the site where Andytown leisure centre is? New centre or housing? Does the back of it reach down to the motorway?

Don't know but always felt the gaa missed a trick by not getting access to the grounds at the back to aid circulation in an emergency situation
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 08:10:53 PM
A simple off slip would be handy but harder to get back on motorway though
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 11, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2017, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Time to give up on Casement.

Either expand Armagh or build a new stadium that's handy for all Ulster.
I'm starting to agree with this. I'd scratch the plans for 30k at Casement and redevelop on a much smaller scale, maybe a 10k facility to suit Antrim's needs. I see they are playing their county final in Glenavy ::) they've gone long enough without a decent stadium to cater for club finals and county games. The SF wet dream of a major stadium in west Belfast is costing too much and the longer it goes on the less I want to see it. Even the people in west Belfast don't seem too fussed so pull the plug and give the GAA a lump sum to develop other provincial stadia where they'll be appreciated.

Armagh hosts lots of neutral games, Ulster club, McKenna cup etc. It's handy for a lot of counties, more than Casement would be.

For example, if Tyrone played Monaghan in McKenna final, it would make no sense to take that to Casement. Or if it hosted ulster semis, what's the sense taking the likes of Donegal v Fermanagh there too?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 08:59:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2017, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Time to give up on Casement.

Either expand Armagh or build a new stadium that's handy for all Ulster.
I'm starting to agree with this. I'd scratch the plans for 30k at Casement and redevelop on a much smaller scale, maybe a 10k facility to suit Antrim's needs. I see they are playing their county final in Glenavy ::) they've gone long enough without a decent stadium to cater for club finals and county games. The SF wet dream of a major stadium in west Belfast is costing too much and the longer it goes on the less I want to see it. Even the people in west Belfast don't seem too fussed so pull the plug and give the GAA a lump sum to develop other provincial stadia where they'll be appreciated.

Armagh hosts lots of neutral games, Ulster club, McKenna cup etc. It's handy for a lot of counties, more than Casement would be.

For example, if Tyrone played Monaghan in McKenna final, it would make no sense to take that to Casement. Or if it hosted ulster semis, what's the sense taking the likes of Donegal v Fermanagh there too?

so why Tyrone v Armagh head to Croke or Derry Down head to Croke? Why not keep it up north all the grounds will be used as normal just the finals will be at Casement instead of Clones
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 11, 2017, 09:30:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 06:55:25 PM
What's happening with the site where Andytown leisure centre is? New centre or housing? Does the back of it reach down to the motorway?

Its getting a muti million pound makeover. I wouldnt be suprised if it includes a multi story car park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 11, 2017, 11:13:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 08:59:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2017, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Time to give up on Casement.

Either expand Armagh or build a new stadium that's handy for all Ulster.
I'm starting to agree with this. I'd scratch the plans for 30k at Casement and redevelop on a much smaller scale, maybe a 10k facility to suit Antrim's needs. I see they are playing their county final in Glenavy ::) they've gone long enough without a decent stadium to cater for club finals and county games. The SF wet dream of a major stadium in west Belfast is costing too much and the longer it goes on the less I want to see it. Even the people in west Belfast don't seem too fussed so pull the plug and give the GAA a lump sum to develop other provincial stadia where they'll be appreciated.

Armagh hosts lots of neutral games, Ulster club, McKenna cup etc. It's handy for a lot of counties, more than Casement would be.

For example, if Tyrone played Monaghan in McKenna final, it would make no sense to take that to Casement. Or if it hosted ulster semis, what's the sense taking the likes of Donegal v Fermanagh there too?

so why Tyrone v Armagh head to Croke or Derry Down head to Croke? Why not keep it up north all the grounds will be used as normal just the finals will be at Casement instead of Clones

If you're referring to 05, I agree, it shouldn't have went to Croke Park.

Is it worth building a 34,000 stadium just to hold an ulster final? It's daft. A provincial ground in Armagh would get far more use (and does) than Casement stuck at one end of the province.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 12, 2017, 12:18:27 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 11, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
the new Rapid Transit system for Belfast

They are called buses.

Call a spade a spade.

If they build tramways, or a subway, call it a rapid transit system. Not a few f**king posters rebadging a citybus.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2017, 11:13:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2017, 08:59:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2017, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2017, 12:28:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 10, 2017, 10:40:48 PM
Time to give up on Casement.

Either expand Armagh or build a new stadium that's handy for all Ulster.
I'm starting to agree with this. I'd scratch the plans for 30k at Casement and redevelop on a much smaller scale, maybe a 10k facility to suit Antrim's needs. I see they are playing their county final in Glenavy ::) they've gone long enough without a decent stadium to cater for club finals and county games. The SF wet dream of a major stadium in west Belfast is costing too much and the longer it goes on the less I want to see it. Even the people in west Belfast don't seem too fussed so pull the plug and give the GAA a lump sum to develop other provincial stadia where they'll be appreciated.

Armagh hosts lots of neutral games, Ulster club, McKenna cup etc. It's handy for a lot of counties, more than Casement would be.

For example, if Tyrone played Monaghan in McKenna final, it would make no sense to take that to Casement. Or if it hosted ulster semis, what's the sense taking the likes of Donegal v Fermanagh there too?

so why Tyrone v Armagh head to Croke or Derry Down head to Croke? Why not keep it up north all the grounds will be used as normal just the finals will be at Casement instead of Clones

If you're referring to 05, I agree, it shouldn't have went to Croke Park.

Is it worth building a 34,000 stadium just to hold an ulster final? It's daft. A provincial ground in Armagh would get far more use (and does) than Casement stuck at one end of the province.

I'm confused, is Croke Park on one side of the country?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2017, 07:02:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
I'm confused, is Croke Park on one side of the country?

Only on an East-West axis, on a North South Axis it is pretty central.
And the locals actually go there sometimes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2017, 09:25:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2017, 07:02:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
I'm confused, is Croke Park on one side of the country?

Only on an East-West axis, on a North South Axis it is pretty central.
And the locals actually go there sometimes.

The Dublin locals have managed to compete, the way Armagh used to in Ulster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2017, 10:12:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2017, 09:25:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2017, 07:02:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
I'm confused, is Croke Park on one side of the country?

Only on an East-West axis, on a North South Axis it is pretty central.
And the locals actually go there sometimes.

The Dublin locals have managed to compete, the way Armagh used to in Ulster

Antrim once competed, but have given up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 12, 2017, 10:39:15 PM
How far of a walk is it from Finaghy train station to Casement? How does Dublin cope with 80k for match day? People want to be able to park at the front door of Casement ffs. Plenty of parking to cope with 35k within 15/20mins walking distance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2017, 10:48:06 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 12, 2017, 10:39:15 PM
How far of a walk is it from Finaghy train station to Casement? How does Dublin cope with 80k for match day? People want to be able to park at the front door of Casement ffs. Plenty of parking to cope with 35k within 15/20mins walking distance.
f**k don't tie a shitty rail infrastructure into it now!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 13, 2017, 12:21:32 AM
The rail infrastructure is the same as it is for people going to Dublin to watch games. Put the stadium in the second biggest city in Ireland ffs. It's trying to change people's mindsets with this that is the biggest problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
The rail network is handy for the Buckfast Brigade, Newry and Derry. The other 99% of people will arrive via roads.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2017, 09:45:33 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
The rail network is handy for the Buckfast Brigade, Newry and Derry. The other 99% of people will arrive via roads.

What about the people in Larne, Ballymena and Bangor?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 13, 2017, 10:34:54 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
The rail network is handy for the Buckfast Brigade, Newry and Derry. The other 99% of people will arrive via roads.

Except that Ulster GAA wants the car drivers to park at the Maze and be bussed to Casement Park.

This is 10 miles from from the planned white elephant and takes over 20 minutes by car on A roads or 15 minutes on the motorway!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 13, 2017, 11:31:35 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on October 13, 2017, 10:34:54 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
The rail network is handy for the Buckfast Brigade, Newry and Derry. The other 99% of people will arrive via roads.

Except that Ulster GAA wants the car drivers to park at the Maze and be bussed to Casement Park.

This is 10 miles from from the planned white elephant and takes over 20 minutes by car on A roads or 15 minutes on the motorway!

Its not difficult just park the car away from the stadium and walk. Dont try and leave it at the front gate! Go to any stadium in England with your car and you will walk. When I go to old Trafford I park on Seymour grove and walk 20 mins. When I go to casement I walk from my parents house near balmoral avenue again about 20 mins. Plenty of leafy parks to leave your car on as long as there is nothing on at the kings hall. If you can't walk then fine use the park and ride but this obsession of having to get the car as close to the gate as physically possible is madness. Why the fook would you want to be driving anywhere near andytown road on match day.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 13, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
The rail network is handy for the Buckfast Brigade, Newry and Derry. The other 99% of people will arrive via roads.

How does everyone go to Croke Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on October 13, 2017, 02:33:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
The rail network is handy for the Buckfast Brigade, Newry and Derry. The other 99% of people will arrive via roads.

Derry and rail network do not go together Tony ! Must try this Buckfast to see what all the fuss is about
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 31, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2017, 11:57:51 AM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41814037

Disaster... :'(

There is quite a lengthy report as to why SA are recommended by World Rugby when in reality its quite simple the 181million they are offering World Rugby is 61million more than Ireland lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on October 31, 2017, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 31, 2017, 12:04:25 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2017, 11:57:51 AM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41814037

Disaster... :'(

There is quite a lengthy report as to why SA are recommended by World Rugby when in reality its quite simple the 181million they are offering World Rugby is 61million more than Ireland lol.
61 million saved so and the massive expected unexpected over run
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: mrhardyannual on October 31, 2017, 06:00:04 PM
Didn't hear the Fat ( Am I allowed use that adjective?) Lady sing. While money generally decides these things there's still the "Old Boys" network.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on October 31, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
I nearly pissed myself laughing when I read how the report drily noted that a full rebuild of Casement Park was due to be finished in 2020 but there wasn't even planning permission approval yet.

I feel sorry for the people who had to do the technical review and expose themselves to the infectious stupidity that is Ireland's construction sector and try to make sense of it all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 01, 2017, 04:49:46 AM
It will take a wee bit off the panic from getting casement built so quickly. 2030 here we go!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: shantygael on November 01, 2017, 11:15:56 AM
The Orient express doesn't take as long as the train journey from Derry to Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on November 12, 2017, 03:07:44 PM
One benefit of direct rule or joint authority is that the likelihood of this being built increases.  Nationalists in Northern Ireland may be given a choice between having a world class GAA stadium in our premier city or an Acht na Gaelige.  As a dedicated Northern Ireland supporting gael I'd know which one I'd prefer.  Bricks are bricks.  Norn Iron abu!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Avondhu star on November 13, 2017, 08:20:06 AM
Quote from: shantygael on November 01, 2017, 11:15:56 AM
The Orient express doesn't take as long as the train journey from Derry to Belfast.
And as the Dublin train driver said when asked about the dangers on the Dublin Belfast route, " It's fine once you get past Kilbarrack"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 13, 2017, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: shantygael on November 01, 2017, 11:15:56 AM
The Orient express doesn't take as long as the train journey from Derry to Belfast.

Didnt a guy race the train to Derry on his bike and won lol. The problem is it stops fecking everywhere like cullybacky FFS. Worth the journey though for that view form Castlerock to Derry - one of the most scenic rail journeys in the world.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FarneyMan on June 15, 2018, 11:28:13 AM
Government grant a few pound to Clones for upgrade works and call on the GAA to do the same....

http://www.northernsound.ie/e350000-announced-upgrade-works-st-tiarnachs-park/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jayop on June 18, 2018, 05:05:13 PM
Keep Ulster finals in Clones!! Best place in the world to watch a match imo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: smelmoth on June 19, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
The whole Casement project has a distance to go yet. During that time a careful watch will be on attendances. It is not the attendances at the final but the other 7 games (before replays) in the championship. That's were the revenue comes from.

I appreciate that there will be a big grant from Croke Park and that Super 8 revenues will potentially replace the reduced revenue from the wider qualifier games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on June 22, 2018, 09:12:49 AM
They'll be looking at concerts for the revenue I'd have thought. Not much sense building a 40k stadium to fill it once a year, if you're lucky. Not that sense is required for many gaa projects
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on June 22, 2018, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
The whole Casement project has a distance to go yet. During that time a careful watch will be on attendances. It is not the attendances at the final but the other 7 games (before replays) in the championship. That's were the revenue comes from.

I appreciate that there will be a big grant from Croke Park and that Super 8 revenues will potentially replace the reduced revenue from the wider qualifier games

what is the current state . is there planning permission or even an agreed stadium plan yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sekibanki on June 22, 2018, 10:57:10 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 22, 2018, 09:12:49 AM
They'll be looking at concerts for the revenue I'd have thought. Not much sense building a 40k stadium to fill it once a year, if you're lucky. Not that sense is required for many gaa projects
Super 8s and provincial hurling leagues are more about spreading big games throughout the country, I'd wager.
We've quite a few high-capacity grounds currently without the games to justify them.

But then, yeah, also, the GAA loves vanity projects, from the smallest clubs to national level. Outdoing your neighbours is the main thing half the time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on June 22, 2018, 11:28:39 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 22, 2018, 11:10:59 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on June 22, 2018, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 19, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
The whole Casement project has a distance to go yet. During that time a careful watch will be on attendances. It is not the attendances at the final but the other 7 games (before replays) in the championship. That's were the revenue comes from.

I appreciate that there will be a big grant from Croke Park and that Super 8 revenues will potentially replace the reduced revenue from the wider qualifier games

what is the current state . is there planning permission or even an agreed stadium plan yet?
I think....
A planning application has been submitted and is awaiting approval.
Lack of Stormont assembly is holding it up.
It has not been agreed with the residents group that objected to the last application.

I think that’s where it is anyway.

why was it abandoned so quickly did they think the diggers were about to move in or was it that bad
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 22, 2018, 11:50:03 AM
The whole project should be abandoned. Sell the site and move on. Upgrade Clones or build on a greenfield site somewhere far away from Belfast.
The amount of money wasted on this is a disgrace.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on June 22, 2018, 12:09:31 PM
As it's Stormont money it'll have to be spent in the 6 Cos.
Is there a big enough green field in Nationalist Belfast?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on June 22, 2018, 12:37:35 PM
Move the current Clones pitch half a mile out the road
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 22, 2018, 12:44:21 PM
Yes, when Fermanagh annex the Ulster title this weekend they'll need a new 40,000 stadium.

But seriously Lurgan, Portadown etc with Reasonable transport links (i.e they have a rail station, not far off M1) should be looked at IMO.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on June 22, 2018, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 22, 2018, 12:44:21 PM
Yes, when Fermanagh annex the Ulster title this weekend they'll need a new 40,000 stadium.

But seriously Lurgan, Portadown etc with Reasonable transport links (i.e they have a rail station, not far off M1) should be looked at IMO.

What could possibly go wrong...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 22, 2018, 02:03:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 22, 2018, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 22, 2018, 12:44:21 PM
Yes, when Fermanagh annex the Ulster title this weekend they'll need a new 40,000 stadium.

But seriously Lurgan, Portadown etc with Reasonable transport links (i.e they have a rail station, not far off M1) should be looked at IMO.

What could possibly go wrong...

Be a quare statement of intent, given Portadown's past. A big giant f**k off GAA stadium. Put a few noses out of place round that way.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermGael on June 25, 2018, 12:00:48 AM
Anybody who's wants a final anywhere else but clones needs to be careful what they wish for.
It's just the perfect amiptheatre
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2018, 12:17:53 AM
Quote from: FermGael on June 25, 2018, 12:00:48 AM
Anybody who's wants a final anywhere else but clones needs to be careful what they wish for.
It's just the perfect amiptheatre

There is a good cheer in Clones that I cannot imagine will be replicated in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: inthrough on June 25, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
For all it's problems with traffic, Clones is a great venue with real tradition behind it.

The atmosphere there yesterday was fantastic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on June 25, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: inthrough on June 25, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
For all it's problems with traffic, Clones is a great venue with real tradition behind it.

The atmosphere there yesterday was fantastic.

This is the issue though - Clones just can't cope with any level of traffic and by car is the only realistic way you can get there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on June 25, 2018, 10:37:11 AM
so not even a county to build the place has been decided yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on June 25, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: inthrough on June 25, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
For all it's problems with traffic, Clones is a great venue with real tradition behind it.

The atmosphere there yesterday was fantastic.

This is the issue though - Clones just can't cope with any level of traffic and by car is the only realistic way you can get there.

People approach Clones from different sides for many combinations of games, this is not true of Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on June 25, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on June 25, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: inthrough on June 25, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
For all it's problems with traffic, Clones is a great venue with real tradition behind it.

The atmosphere there yesterday was fantastic.

This is the issue though - Clones just can't cope with any level of traffic and by car is the only realistic way you can get there.

True, but Belfast does have Motorway access plus bus, taxi and train provision......

People approach Clones from different sides for many combinations of games, this is not true of Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 25, 2018, 12:35:00 PM
The only way to handle the traffic in Clones is go for a few pints after the game. Let the traffic ease. Surely though if a major redevelopment was to take place in Clones, road upgrades would also be part of this?

I agree that Clones on Ulster Final day is a special place. But as has been pointed out above, is the money available not ring fenced for the wee 6?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on July 06, 2018, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 12:35:00 PM
The only way to handle the traffic in Clones is go for a few pints after the game. Let the traffic ease. Surely though if a major redevelopment was to take place in Clones, road upgrades would also be part of this?

I agree that Clones on Ulster Final day is a special place. But as has been pointed out above, is the money available not ring fenced for the wee 6?

It is unfortunately, even though you could luck a football into the north from clones the money can't be used on it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on August 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw

Why the f**k was it closed before building of the new stadium could commence?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on August 24, 2018, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2018, 10:47:06 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on June 25, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: inthrough on June 25, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
For all it's problems with traffic, Clones is a great venue with real tradition behind it.

The atmosphere there yesterday was fantastic.

This is the issue though - Clones just can't cope with any level of traffic and by car is the only realistic way you can get there.

People approach Clones from different sides for many combinations of games, this is not true of Belfast.

Yes it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 24, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw

Why the f**k was it closed before building of the new stadium could commence?

Asbestos? (I think...?)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2018, 12:44:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 24, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw

Why the f**k was it closed before building of the new stadium could commence?

Asbestos? (I think...?)

Part of the stand couldnt get insurance (electrical issues and structure?) , so it would have needed money spent on it, but the rest of the ground was fine.. So with what seemed at the time that it was in the bag, they closed the ground and obviously saved money on the not having it opened..

But hindsight is a wonderfull thing, with the likes of Ravenhill getting the green light and Windsor sure why wouldnt Casement not get up and running at the time!

A whole generation of kids will never have been to Casement or played on it by the time it re opens (if ever) which is not right.. what other county ground sits like that?

Planning and permission from all residents should have taken place long before the gates were closed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 24, 2018, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2018, 12:44:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 24, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw

Why the f**k was it closed before building of the new stadium could commence?

Asbestos? (I think...?)

Part of the stand couldnt get insurance (electrical issues and structure?) , so it would have needed money spent on it, but the rest of the ground was fine.. So with what seemed at the time that it was in the bag, they closed the ground and obviously saved money on the not having it opened..

But hindsight is a wonderfull thing, with the likes of Ravenhill getting the green light and Windsor sure why wouldnt Casement not get up and running at the time!

A whole generation of kids will never have been to Casement or played on it by the time it re opens (if ever) which is not right.. what other county ground sits like that?

Planning and permission from all residents should have taken place long before the gates were closed
A key aspect of both Ravenhill and Windsor is that they were upgraded roughly within an existing footprint and of a size which didn't give cause for concern. The Casement proposals were for a capacity roughly equivalent to Ravenhill and Windsor combined.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2018, 07:24:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 24, 2018, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2018, 12:44:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 24, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw

Why the f**k was it closed before building of the new stadium could commence?

Asbestos? (I think...?)

Part of the stand couldnt get insurance (electrical issues and structure?) , so it would have needed money spent on it, but the rest of the ground was fine.. So with what seemed at the time that it was in the bag, they closed the ground and obviously saved money on the not having it opened..

But hindsight is a wonderfull thing, with the likes of Ravenhill getting the green light and Windsor sure why wouldnt Casement not get up and running at the time!

A whole generation of kids will never have been to Casement or played on it by the time it re opens (if ever) which is not right.. what other county ground sits like that?

Planning and permission from all residents should have taken place long before the gates were closed
A key aspect of both Ravenhill and Windsor is that they were upgraded roughly within an existing footprint and of a size which didn't give cause for concern. The Casement proposals were for a capacity roughly equivalent to Ravenhill and Windsor combined.

The key thing here is believing that everything was going to go through as easily as the other grounds, though Windsor had structural problems they managed to fix it handy enough. Casement just seemed to hit wall after wall after wall
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sekibanki on August 24, 2018, 07:43:05 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 24, 2018, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2018, 12:44:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 24, 2018, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 24, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 24, 2018, 12:12:05 AM
https://twitter.com/AontroimGAA/status/1032007139710193666

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeUCwq2mDFw

Why the f**k was it closed before building of the new stadium could commence?

Asbestos? (I think...?)

Part of the stand couldnt get insurance (electrical issues and structure?) , so it would have needed money spent on it, but the rest of the ground was fine.. So with what seemed at the time that it was in the bag, they closed the ground and obviously saved money on the not having it opened..

But hindsight is a wonderfull thing, with the likes of Ravenhill getting the green light and Windsor sure why wouldnt Casement not get up and running at the time!

A whole generation of kids will never have been to Casement or played on it by the time it re opens (if ever) which is not right.. what other county ground sits like that?

Planning and permission from all residents should have taken place long before the gates were closed
A key aspect of both Ravenhill and Windsor is that they were upgraded roughly within an existing footprint and of a size which didn't give cause for concern. The Casement proposals were for a capacity roughly equivalent to Ravenhill and Windsor combined.

But the (reduced) capacity and footprint of the plans for the revamped Casement isn't much different from the present one.

Another apt comparison is with Pairc Ui Chaoimh, which is a project similar in scope regards size, difficulties facing the project and utility. Personally I view the contrast between how the two projects have gone as characteristic of the two cities. Cork seem quite eager to get 'er built, regardless of the eventual usage and difficulties for local residents, traffic, parking, etc, to place a glittering monument to Cork hurling right on the entrance to the city and put it up to Dublin. Belfast doesn't care much for competing with other cities, the world ends at Lisburn and the idea of extra road or foot traffic on the Andytown Road or noise seems like an insurmountable inconvenience.

Not to pass judgment on either case, it's not like the Pairc is without its own issues.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on August 26, 2018, 10:04:40 AM
Part of the problem was the existing stadium did not comply with red and green guides, someone was not doing their job properly as this was allowed to happen. When new proposals went thru and a proper investigation and calculation done by modeling it showed up it was not safe as they could not evacuate all patrons within the specified time scales. They simply don't have the required space, then throw in the objections from local residents and basically you're f**ked.
I know recently that they said they had sorted out the technical issues but Im not so sure, as for the locals I'm sure there are a few genuine reasons from genuine people who it will impact and probably a few jumping on the band wagon too.
It will be a decade before we see this grand stadium open not to mention them useless good for nothing Politicians bastids who are ruining the thing too
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 26, 2018, 11:35:52 AM
The only people responsible for the mess in the pictures below is the GAA Ulster Council who sanctioned work to dismantle the stadium long before any permission was given to the plan for the new stadium. 

Casement Park could have remained in use in all of those wasted years while awaiting planning permission, tendering for construction and appointment of builder!

Ulster Council should accept its responsibility for creating this wasteland and depriving Antrim of a county ground, yes the stand was useless and facilities were very poor for players and supporters but temporary accommodation could have been provided in all of the wasted years and the great playing surface with more than sufficient terracing and even benching.

Before being destroyed by the Ulster Council through jumping the gun and sheer neglect when the plans for a new stadium went pear shaped through poor work by GAA and Stormont Executive and useless ministers in charge of the project.  How many heads have rolled, precisely zero!

(https://i.imgur.com/6OCrSeI.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/xPvU9Jx.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/nwK6gom.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/x1gVd8E.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 26, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
This is what it looked like before they decided to dismantle the grounds before it even had been granted planning permission for the proposed stadium:

(https://i.imgur.com/DUEvmxl.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/y8z1OO6.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/IAYWRYZ.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 26, 2018, 11:45:10 AM
Antrim had a flood lit pitch which was very well maintained, a very good surface and far more terracing capacity than the majority of stadia in Ireland.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: spuds on August 26, 2018, 01:22:18 PM
Pictures don't lie. Shocking. Total shambles.

Story of ineptitude.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 26, 2018, 01:38:57 PM
What's the story now anyway? Is another planning application currently being looked at or is the whole thing gone to hell?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 26, 2018, 03:38:04 PM
Planning permission for a revised smaller stadium has been applied for but given the scale of the project its planning permission would require ministerial permission and then ministerial approval for the spend.  Neither of these will be available foreseeable future and with the recent court decision, a civil servant cannot give permission. So the Ulster Council project debacle continues. Meanwhile both Windsor Park and Kingspan Stadium are long since finished and in full use.

Antrim could have continued to use the ground from June 2013 when it was closed.  Five years of wasted time and quite a few ahead before the development will begin.

No reason why the ground couldn't be tidied up and the pitch renovated this autumn at minimal cost to give Antrim a few years of use.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on August 27, 2018, 03:04:37 PM
whisper it but isn't it fairly obvious at this stage Antrim GAA don't really need casement park . if you cn survive 5 years without it would the money net be better spent properly modernizing clones?.
I assume were talking about Ulster GAA money here rather than Antrim's
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on August 27, 2018, 03:10:29 PM
It is pretty clear given how shite Antrim are at football and hurling currently a good club set up would be enough in terms of pitch/stand etc.

However surely the GAA as a while are missing a generation of players in Belfast?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on August 27, 2018, 03:24:41 PM
Thought Ryan Feeney was to sort the whole thing out??  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 27, 2018, 04:09:56 PM
The Casement money is only available for 6Cos venues.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2018, 05:22:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2018, 04:09:56 PM
The Casement money is only available for 6Cos venues.

It's only available for Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on August 27, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
Casement aside, what is GAA HQ doing to promote GAA in Ireland's second city?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on August 27, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 27, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
Casement aside, what is GAA HQ doing to promote GAA in Ireland's second city?

http://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-launches-initiative-support-gaelic-games-belfast/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2018, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 27, 2018, 03:24:41 PM
Thought Ryan Feeney was to sort the whole thing out??  :o
He's at QUB now. Seems to be a PR puff merchant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 27, 2018, 09:48:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMMruGqagpI&feature=youtu.be&a=&gl=IE
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: quidnunc on August 28, 2018, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2018, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 27, 2018, 03:24:41 PM
Thought Ryan Feeney was to sort the whole thing out??  :o
He's at QUB now. Seems to be a PR puff merchant.

One of the most puffed up self-promoters of our age...

Did you see the wee prat and his wife presenting flowers to the Pope on TV, then telling Miriam O'Callaghan that Francie asked them to pray for him?
Just recently they got the front cover of the Irish News for their wedding, with the McAleeses, PSNI head and other worthies present. Word on the street is that apology cards were read out from Bertie Ahern, Leo Varadkar and Hilary Clinton. Seriously. Like who invites Varadkar and Clinton to their wedding?

Thanks to Hardstation for reminding us of Feeney's central role in the Casement fiasco. How has this pathetic social climber retained credibility? God help Queen's...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
Don't personalise it. Remember there was many people who wanted the stadium built and there were many people who didn't want the stadium built. The people who didn't want the stadium built have won... simple as.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 10:17:00 AM

Wasn't me who brought him up. I'd rather forget about the part he played in this.
[/quote]
Quidnunc - a man of your education should be above this type of attack. As hardstation says he didn't bring him into it, you did sir, so sounds like you have a axe to grind on someone who done his job under the management of the  Ulster council gaa which included some great leaders of the Gaa and lifelong servants  whom I'm sure you knew firsthand and claim to have respect for. As for the despicable quips on the wedding,  people send best wishes at weddings whether invited or not. Terrible personal attack. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on August 28, 2018, 11:16:39 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 10:17:00 AM

Wasn't me who brought him up. I'd rather forget about the part he played in this.
Quidnunc - a man of your education should be above this type of attack. As hardstation says he didn't bring him into it, you did sir, so sounds like you have a axe to grind on someone who done his job under the management of the  Ulster council gaa which included some great leaders of the Gaa and lifelong servants  whom I'm sure you knew firsthand and claim to have respect for. As for the despicable quips on the wedding,  people send best wishes at weddings whether invited or not. Terrible personal attack.
[/quote]

Anyone know why he is no longer working for Ulster GAA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:33:30 AM
Id imagine a much better job opportunity.  Moved on to a new challenge about 3 years ago like many people do in life. In any organisation strategy comes from the top..!i don't care who delivers it but this needs to happen. and the top of Ulster gaa needs to sit down with the top of Antrim Gaa and come up with something to help Antrim county teams have a ground for the next 3 years. A few hundred k would tidy it up. Probably still be a better ground than Navan. I would have no doubt that Everyone wants that to be resolved. Resolve it now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 28, 2018, 11:40:05 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:33:30 AM
Id imagine a much better job opportunity.  Moved on to a new challenge about 3 years ago like many people do in life. In any organisation strategy comes from the top..!i don't care who delivers it but this needs to happen. and the top of Ulster gaa needs to sit down with the top of Antrim Gaa and come up with something to help Antrim county teams have a ground for the next 3 years. A few hundred k would tidy it up. Probably still be a better ground than Navan. I would have no doubt that Everyone wants that to be resolved. Resolve it now.

I wouldn't expect a Tyrone man to appreciate the character of PT.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on August 28, 2018, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
Don't personalise it. Remember there was many people who wanted the stadium built and there were many people who didn't want the stadium built. The people who didn't want the stadium built have won... simple as.

Who were they, the health and safety expert whose report was being ignored?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:46:25 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2018, 11:40:05 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:33:30 AM
Id imagine a much better job opportunity.  Moved on to a new challenge about 3 years ago like many people do in life. In any organisation strategy comes from the top..!i don't care who delivers it but this needs to happen. and the top of Ulster gaa needs to sit down with the top of Antrim Gaa and come up with something to help Antrim county teams have a ground for the next 3 years. A few hundred k would tidy it up. Probably still be a better ground than Navan. I would have no doubt that Everyone wants that to be resolved. Resolve it now.

I wouldn't expect a Tyrone man to appreciate the character of PT.
We love going there and tayto park as well. There's a lot more to Meath than football in my eyes..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:55:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2018, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
Don't personalise it. Remember there was many people who wanted the stadium built and there were many people who didn't want the stadium built. The people who didn't want the stadium built have won... simple as.

Who were they, the health and safety expert whose report was being ignored?
Surely as we are talking about it this week and not 4 years ago, It is more important to get Antrim playing on it next Spring. Will stormont  be back pre brexit - highly unlikely. Can something be done in the meantime, some are saying yes. Let's do what we can do with all currently involved sides and stop chasing the past.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 28, 2018, 11:58:15 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:46:25 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 28, 2018, 11:40:05 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:33:30 AM
Id imagine a much better job opportunity.  Moved on to a new challenge about 3 years ago like many people do in life. In any organisation strategy comes from the top..!i don't care who delivers it but this needs to happen. and the top of Ulster gaa needs to sit down with the top of Antrim Gaa and come up with something to help Antrim county teams have a ground for the next 3 years. A few hundred k would tidy it up. Probably still be a better ground than Navan. I would have no doubt that Everyone wants that to be resolved. Resolve it now.

I wouldn't expect a Tyrone man to appreciate the character of PT.
We love going there and tayto park as well. There's a lot more to Meath than football in my eyes..

You can't beat a bit of culture.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 28, 2018, 12:50:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlpG6GnX4AAUihT.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: spuds on August 28, 2018, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: Clinker on August 28, 2018, 12:50:15 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlpG6GnX4AAUihT.jpg)

"Antrim chairman losing patience" only the 5 years later 😂.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on August 28, 2018, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 11:55:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2018, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 08:11:12 AM
Don't personalise it. Remember there was many people who wanted the stadium built and there were many people who didn't want the stadium built. The people who didn't want the stadium built have won... simple as.

Who were they, the health and safety expert whose report was being ignored?
Surely as we are talking about it this week and not 4 years ago, It is more important to get Antrim playing on it next Spring. Will stormont  be back pre brexit - highly unlikely. Can something be done in the meantime, some are saying yes. Let's do what we can do with all currently involved sides and stop chasing the past.

Who didn't want the stadium built and who are now saying something can be done in the meantime without an executive?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on August 28, 2018, 04:37:55 PM
I did have my own strongly held views on that at the time, and they are on this thread but it's irrelevant now Johnny. I was fully behind the bigger stadium project but ironically I believe the much bigger picture now is the demise of Antrim since. These guys need a county pitch. I would hope the stadium would happen but probably unlikely in the short term. Hadn't bought the paper today but it's on the same lines - I'll leave it to those in charge to debate out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on August 28, 2018, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2018, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 27, 2018, 03:24:41 PM
Thought Ryan Feeney was to sort the whole thing out??  :o
He's at QUB now. Seems to be a PR puff merchant.

Managed an invite to meet the Pope in Pro Cathedral.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/popevisit/2018/08/25/news/belfast-couple-asked-pope-to-pray-for-peace-in-the-north--1416041/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/popevisit/2018/08/25/news/belfast-couple-asked-pope-to-pray-for-peace-in-the-north--1416041/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 28, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
If Casement was built with 30,000 would Antrim play there in the leagues? They're hardly getting massive crowds. It would look a pitiful sight with maybe 500 fans in a big stadium at a Div 4 match.

Belfast is not even centrally based for Antrim fans. I think the GAA should forget about it and enlarge Armagh or Omagh or somewhere more central for Ulster. Or even a new stadium around Dungannon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 28, 2018, 10:58:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2018, 10:51:54 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 28, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
If Casement was built with 30,000 would Antrim play there in the leagues? They're hardly getting massive crowds. It would look a pitiful sight with maybe 500 fans in a big stadium at a Div 4 match.

Belfast is not even centrally based for Antrim fans. I think the GAA should forget about it and enlarge Armagh or Omagh or somewhere more central for Ulster.
This is not being built for Antrim and I really have my doubts about what access we would have to it for league games etc. As I say, our needs are the least of Ulster GAA's concern.

So if Antrim don't use if for league games, how often would it be used? How would it pay for itself?

I suppose ulster semis or finals would be it's biggest days. But say Donegal v Cavan in an ulster semi. Why would you take those two sets of fans all the way to Belfast? It's madness.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 28, 2018, 11:10:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2018, 11:01:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 28, 2018, 10:58:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2018, 10:51:54 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 28, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
If Casement was built with 30,000 would Antrim play there in the leagues? They're hardly getting massive crowds. It would look a pitiful sight with maybe 500 fans in a big stadium at a Div 4 match.

Belfast is not even centrally based for Antrim fans. I think the GAA should forget about it and enlarge Armagh or Omagh or somewhere more central for Ulster.
This is not being built for Antrim and I really have my doubts about what access we would have to it for league games etc. As I say, our needs are the least of Ulster GAA's concern.

So if Antrim don't use if for league games, how often would it be used? How would it pay for itself?

Antrim league games are hardly going to pay for it.
It is a concert arena.

Yeah but primarily it will be a GAA stadium. It looks like it's being built to facilitate corporate events rather than GAA matches.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on August 28, 2018, 11:25:38 PM
Were there not figures mentioned that it would bring 15 million into the area with 13.5 million going back to Headquarters of which Antrim will get their 1/34(minus costs) fair share(all playing counties included) and 1.5 million per year for chip shops and local bars?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on August 28, 2018, 11:30:25 PM
It doesn't matter how many fans turn up for an Antrim game, it's their ground and they're entitled to play there. Ulster GAA said the ground will fund itself through conferences, meetings and festivals/concerts. For me it can host anything it likes but it will always be Antrim's home of GAA and it needs sorting out ASAP, for me if there is no sign of the development in the next year then Croke Park should step in and clear the site and lay a new pitch for Antrim GAA.
It's not good enough and it wouldn't have been allowed to happen if it were Kerry, Tyrone, Meath etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 08:58:27 AM
Most gaa grounds have far too high a capacity, including croker. Any stadium is devoid of atmosphere unless its full or close to it, and it has a negative impact on the games and experience.

There is no need for a 38k capacity venue - as stated, with that capacity, its primary use will be (and is intended to be) a concert venue generating income for the gaa.

Develop a top class ground, with facilities to nurture the game and importantly in a divided city, the promotion of it (we may scoff at corporate entertainment, but the rugger gleans a big following from coporate events on friday night, all of which promote the game to an audience who otherwise wouldnt be involved - this is much more important for gaa than it is for rugby) but 20k capacity is plenty, forget about turning it into another white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Mourne Red on August 29, 2018, 09:42:55 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 08:58:27 AM
Most gaa grounds have far too high a capacity, including croker. Any stadium is devoid of atmosphere unless its full or close to it, and it has a negative impact on the games and experience.

There is no need for a 38k capacity venue - as stated, with that capacity, its primary use will be (and is intended to be) a concert venue generating income for the gaa.

Develop a top class ground, with facilities to nurture the game and importantly in a divided city, the promotion of it (we may scoff at corporate entertainment, but the rugger gleans a big following from coporate events on friday night, all of which promote the game to an audience who otherwise wouldnt be involved - this is much more important for gaa than it is for rugby) but 20k capacity is plenty, forget about turning it into another white elephant.

It was being developed as a provincial stadium thats why they had so large a capacity, wasn't Antrim saying they'll fill it out every week but Ulster GAA to host Ulster Finals
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on August 29, 2018, 10:04:58 AM
Nothing sums up the Casement redevelopment delusion as this image of an Ulster Hurling Final attracting 38,000 spectators.

(http://www.hbjv-casementpark.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/HBJV-casement-park-slide-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 10:11:42 AM
Love the way one of the Antrim defenders is all set to clatter the goalpost for some reason.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 10:23:29 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on August 29, 2018, 09:42:55 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 08:58:27 AM
Most gaa grounds have far too high a capacity, including croker. Any stadium is devoid of atmosphere unless its full or close to it, and it has a negative impact on the games and experience.

There is no need for a 38k capacity venue - as stated, with that capacity, its primary use will be (and is intended to be) a concert venue generating income for the gaa.

Develop a top class ground, with facilities to nurture the game and importantly in a divided city, the promotion of it (we may scoff at corporate entertainment, but the rugger gleans a big following from coporate events on friday night, all of which promote the game to an audience who otherwise wouldnt be involved - this is much more important for gaa than it is for rugby) but 20k capacity is plenty, forget about turning it into another white elephant.

It was being developed as a provincial stadium thats why they had so large a capacity, wasn't Antrim saying they'll fill it out every week but Ulster GAA to host Ulster Finals

There's only one ulster final a year (and it doesn't always sell out). The GAA seem to be the only body I know of that aim their stadium capacity at the largest crowd they can attract, rather than the average crowd they will attract
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on August 29, 2018, 10:28:38 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 10:11:42 AM
Love the way one of the Antrim defenders is all set to clatter the goalpost for some reason.

And the lack of helmets.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 10:23:29 AM
There's only one ulster final a year (and it doesn't always sell out). The GAA seem to be the only body I know of that aim their stadium capacity at the largest crowd they can attract, rather than the average crowd they will attract

The ability for people to go to games is one strength of the GAA, so that it represents the community and not just a select cult.
The 32,000 for Casement is appropriate, just get on with it. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 29, 2018, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.
Munster alone has 4 big ones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

I'd favour renovating Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on August 29, 2018, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:31:16 PM


I'd favour renovating Clones.

Needs more than renovations. The cage they call the Hill is a death trap.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on August 29, 2018, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

Lads seriously do a bit of research or at least go back through the thread to get the facts around this whole saga.

The money is coming from the UK government for the stadium project. Clones is in the south so therefore is definitely not an option.

The fact is, that it is going to be this Casement project or nothing. It's not up for negotiation as to where this project is going, infact its not really up for negotiation the size of the stadium either. Ulster GAA have stipulated what they want size wise and it is now a matter of them getting as close to that as the local residents and planning authorities will allow.

All this talk of smaller stadiums or county grounds else where is detracting from the story of how we got to this mess, with Antrim's home. Not Ulster GAA's home, the people of Antrim who have  cherished Casement for years have been left with this for various reasons, none of which shine a great light on those involved.

But for commentators and people who should know better to keep going over these pointless arguments only muddys the water further.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on August 29, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

Just tough if you come from the northern end of the province.

Ulster should have two.

Used to have 3, Omagh, Casement and Clones.

If you talk to anyone who attended the Ulster finals in the 60's in Casement, especially Armagh / Down finals, they'll tell you that the atmosphere was great.

Just build it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 29, 2018, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 29, 2018, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

Lads seriously do a bit of research or at least go back through the thread to get the facts around this whole saga.

The money is coming from the UK government for the stadium project. Clones is in the south so therefore is definitely not an option.

The fact is, that it is going to be this Casement project or nothing. It's not up for negotiation as to where this project is going, infact its not really up for negotiation the size of the stadium either. Ulster GAA have stipulated what they want size wise and it is now a matter of them getting as close to that as the local residents and planning authorities will allow.

All this talk of smaller stadiums or county grounds else where is detracting from the story of how we got to this mess, with Antrim's home. Not Ulster GAA's home, the people of Antrim who have  cherished Casement for years have been left with this for various reasons, none of which shine a great light on those involved.

But for commentators and people who should know better to keep going over these pointless arguments only muddys the water further.

Completely getting bored of the 'other ideas' that can't be brought in unless the Government change their tune. not the Ulster council
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 01:45:43 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on August 29, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

Just tough if you come from the northern end of the province.

Ulster should have two.

Used to have 3, Omagh, Casement and Clones.

If you talk to anyone who attended the Ulster finals in the 60's in Casement, especially Armagh / Down finals, they'll tell you that the atmosphere was great.

Just build it

I appreciate that 'we are where we are', but objectively speaking, one modern large capacity stadium is sufficient for every province.
The geographical location, distance for some people to travel etc. is a minor consideration.
It's a small country, with a small number of games at provincial level that would merit using the provincial ground to begin with.
The journey to and from the game is part of the day.
People used to cycle over 100 miles to games without complaint, so a bit of a drive once in a blue moon is no great hardship.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on August 29, 2018, 02:08:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 29, 2018, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 29, 2018, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 29, 2018, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

Lads seriously do a bit of research or at least go back through the thread to get the facts around this whole saga.

The money is coming from the UK government for the stadium project. Clones is in the south so therefore is definitely not an option.

The fact is, that it is going to be this Casement project or nothing. It's not up for negotiation as to where this project is going, infact its not really up for negotiation the size of the stadium either. Ulster GAA have stipulated what they want size wise and it is now a matter of them getting as close to that as the local residents and planning authorities will allow.

All this talk of smaller stadiums or county grounds else where is detracting from the story of how we got to this mess, with Antrim's home. Not Ulster GAA's home, the people of Antrim who have  cherished Casement for years have been left with this for various reasons, none of which shine a great light on those involved.

But for commentators and people who should know better to keep going over these pointless arguments only muddys the water further.

Completely getting bored of the 'other ideas' that can't be brought in unless the Government change their tune. not the Ulster council
While I sort of agree with you, there are a couple of points. I don't know how it can be said that the size of the stadium isn't up for negotiation. Of course it can be.
Secondly, although unlikely an upgrade of Clones isn't exactly out of the question in relation to the funding of the Casement project, I don't think. £77 million is the entire funding for the project. As far as I'm aware, only £62 million of this can't be spent outside the north. The GAA are staking the other £15 million. This could be used to upgrade Clones.
Unlikely to happen and I have no idea what could be done with £15 million but maybe this is what people are asking to be done.

HS my point is that the stadium size while not fixed at the moment, is not going to be negotiated from 32k odd to the 10/15k that is being muted here. It may fluctuate slightly depending on future agreements.

The £15m being staked by Ulster GAA is as far as I am aware their contribution to the project, if the project does not happen then of course they could use this £15m however they see fit including upgrading Clones. My point is the vast majority of the money available to make Casement happen is coming from Govt and this can only be used for this specific project as it stands.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 03:00:58 PM
Armaghniac, when you extrapolate your point that seems to be what you're saying.

My point is about gaa stadia in general. I understand there is a shed-load of money that can only be spent in the north, but to my mind just because its there, doesn't mean it should all be spent on the biggest ground that can be afforded. Build a top end stadium of a reasonable size. 38,000 capacity is just a vanity project, which would soon turn into an embarrassment with empty stands at match after match and the inevitable questions arising as to why public money was spent unnecessarily.

I'd love to see Casement developed into the most modern stadium possible, with top class facilities, and its a massive miss at the minute (especially for Ulster club games of which it used to host a lot) but capacity wise 20k is plenty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 29, 2018, 04:55:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 29, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 29, 2018, 11:36:02 AM
The problem with stadiums in the GAA is that logic goes out the window.
If the process was managed centrally & strategically, and you could start all over again, there would only be one stadium in every province with a capacity in excess of 40,000, which would host ALL provincial finals.
Each county would have a modern county ground with a capacity of 10-25,000, depending on population size.

Ulster is getting there, Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Park etc are pretty suitable grounds of capacity 17,000 or so and this project would be a bigger stadium for the whole province.

Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
So room for every man woman and child in case they ever decide to attend a game. Seems reasonable

Where did I say that?

You already have Clones though.

I'd favour renovating Clones.

The ground is fine. The town and the roads into it arent.

Makes more sense to have a major ground with motorways and major roads. And to have parking facilities outside to cater for park and ride systems, which seems to be the direction we're heading in. Clones was fine transport wise when the town had a railway and most people travelled to matches that way.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: An Watcher on August 29, 2018, 05:28:24 PM
Give me clones every time.  Never a fan of casement, more so with regard to its location rather than its facilities, pitch etc.  Clones is a great venue with its tradition, atmosphere and the village itself. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 29, 2018, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 29, 2018, 05:28:24 PM
Give me clones every time.  Never a fan of casement, more so with regard to its location rather than its facilities, pitch etc.  Clones is a great venue with its tradition, atmosphere and the village itself.

Anderson's town is a village, well started out as a village until the lower whack ended up there in the 59's
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on August 29, 2018, 06:16:18 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 10:23:29 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on August 29, 2018, 09:42:55 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 29, 2018, 08:58:27 AM
Most gaa grounds have far too high a capacity, including croker. Any stadium is devoid of atmosphere unless its full or close to it, and it has a negative impact on the games and experience.

There is no need for a 38k capacity venue - as stated, with that capacity, its primary use will be (and is intended to be) a concert venue generating income for the gaa.

Develop a top class ground, with facilities to nurture the game and importantly in a divided city, the promotion of it (we may scoff at corporate entertainment, but the rugger gleans a big following from coporate events on friday night, all of which promote the game to an audience who otherwise wouldnt be involved - this is much more important for gaa than it is for rugby) but 20k capacity is plenty, forget about turning it into another white elephant.

It was being developed as a provincial stadium thats why they had so large a capacity, wasn't Antrim saying they'll fill it out every week but Ulster GAA to host Ulster Finals

There's only one ulster final a year (and it doesn't always sell out). The GAA seem to be the only body I know of that aim their stadium capacity at the largest crowd they can attract, rather than the average crowd they will attract

It's better looking at it than looking for it. Forward planning, who knows what the capacities will be in ten or 15 years.
If they build a smaller ground people will be yapping saying wtf did they build it so small for?.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GJL on September 05, 2018, 08:45:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)

That is encouraging. Hopefully some positive news soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on September 06, 2018, 11:19:37 AM
Yeah, hopefully things will happen soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
What does that say thats new?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
What does that say thats new?

Didn't realise it had a heading saying something new on Casement.. Did i miss that?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
What does that say thats new?

Didn't realise it had a heading saying something new on Casement.. Did i miss that?
People are talking about encouraging progress. Is there someybing in the letter we didnt know yesterday?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
What does that say thats new?

Didn't realise it had a heading saying something new on Casement.. Did i miss that?
People are talking about encouraging progress. Is there someybing in the letter we didnt know yesterday?


"While we are frustrated with the delays we have faced to date, we remain entirely focussed on bringing the project to a successful conclusion. In our ongoing dialogue with other project developers, civic leaders and elected representatives we ask simply for one thing. In the context of the future governance and decision-making arrangements that may be negotiated politically, that Casement Park is not allowed to suffer further delay and that our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
What does that say thats new?

Didn't realise it had a heading saying something new on Casement.. Did i miss that?
People are talking about encouraging progress. Is there someybing in the letter we didnt know yesterday?


"While we are frustrated with the delays we have faced to date, we remain entirely focussed on bringing the project to a successful conclusion. In our ongoing dialogue with other project developers, civic leaders and elected representatives we ask simply for one thing. In the context of the future governance and decision-making arrangements that may be negotiated politically, that Casement Park is not allowed to suffer further delay and that our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast".
So nothing.

Its a good letter, but there is no progress to speak of. And blaming politicians for the delay is questionable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 01:22:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 11:29:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2018, 07:21:49 PM
Ulster GAA  have posted an open letter on Casement progress.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2018/09/update-from-gaa-on-progress-of-the-casement-park-project/)
What does that say thats new?

Didn't realise it had a heading saying something new on Casement.. Did i miss that?
People are talking about encouraging progress. Is there someybing in the letter we didnt know yesterday?


"While we are frustrated with the delays we have faced to date, we remain entirely focussed on bringing the project to a successful conclusion. In our ongoing dialogue with other project developers, civic leaders and elected representatives we ask simply for one thing. In the context of the future governance and decision-making arrangements that may be negotiated politically, that Casement Park is not allowed to suffer further delay and that our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast".
So nothing.

Its a good letter, but there is no progress to speak of. And blaming politicians for the delay is questionable.

Can certainly lay the blame with the Ulster council at the start and how they assumed everything would be ok, but the delay at the minute is down to the politicians
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 01:29:36 PM
Assumed everything would be ok?

Thats one way of looking at it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on September 06, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Belfast isn't the spot for this stadium.

Firstly the residents don't want it.
It's too far for people coming from the west and has very poor infrastructure.

A complete rethink is needed. Sell it off for housing. Find a greenfield site and build something suitable that will cater for games with 40k - 50k spectators, concerts and other events.

Bin Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 06, 2018, 01:29:36 PM
Assumed everything would be ok?

Thats one way of looking at it.

Well thats seems to be the thought process, Ravenhill/Kingspan and Windsor were able to do it, but the spade work was obviously done by the professionals, Ulster council should have done theirs..

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on September 06, 2018, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Belfast isn't the spot for this stadium.

Firstly the residents don't want it.
It's too far for people coming from the west and has very poor infrastructure.

A complete rethink is needed. Sell it off for housing. Find a greenfield site and build something suitable that will cater for games with 40k - 50k spectators, concerts and other events.

Bin Casement.

The money is only available for Casement. If it's not Casement there will be no stadium.

Even if the government was in place, would the new plans even meet health and safety requirements?

The Ulster Council and SF have made a complete bollix of the whole process from the very start.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on September 06, 2018, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on September 06, 2018, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Belfast isn't the spot for this stadium.

Firstly the residents don't want it.
It's too far for people coming from the west and has very poor infrastructure.

A complete rethink is needed. Sell it off for housing. Find a greenfield site and build something suitable that will cater for games with 40k - 50k spectators, concerts and other events.

Bin Casement.

The money is only available for Casement. If it's not Casement there will be no stadium.

Even if the government was in place, would the new plans even meet health and safety requirements?

The Ulster Council and SF have made a complete bollix of the whole process from the very start.

Open to correction but I believe the money is available for a Stadium in the 6 counties. It doesn't have to be Casement. They already looked at the Maze site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on September 06, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on September 06, 2018, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Belfast isn't the spot for this stadium.

Firstly the residents don't want it.
It's too far for people coming from the west and has very poor infrastructure.

A complete rethink is needed. Sell it off for housing. Find a greenfield site and build something suitable that will cater for games with 40k - 50k spectators, concerts and other events.

Bin Casement.

The money is only available for Casement. If it's not Casement there will be no stadium.

Even if the government was in place, would the new plans even meet health and safety requirements?

The Ulster Council and SF have made a complete bollix of the whole process from the very start.

Open to correction but I believe the money is available for a Stadium in the 6 counties. It doesn't have to be Casement. They already looked at the Maze site.

Greater Belfast area was the term used in the report IIRC.

This stadium won't survive on GAA games alone and will need to pull in a few concerts and that won't happen if the stadium is built out the back end of beyond.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on September 06, 2018, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Totally agree five points, there was nothing wrong with the stadium to begin with. GAA not very strong in Antrim so it was more than good enough for us the way it was.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 04:39:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 06, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on September 06, 2018, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Belfast isn't the spot for this stadium.

Firstly the residents don't want it.
It's too far for people coming from the west and has very poor infrastructure.

A complete rethink is needed. Sell it off for housing. Find a greenfield site and build something suitable that will cater for games with 40k - 50k spectators, concerts and other events.

Bin Casement.

The money is only available for Casement. If it's not Casement there will be no stadium.

Even if the government was in place, would the new plans even meet health and safety requirements?

The Ulster Council and SF have made a complete bollix of the whole process from the very start.

Open to correction but I believe the money is available for a Stadium in the 6 counties. It doesn't have to be Casement. They already looked at the Maze site.

Greater Belfast area was the term used in the report IIRC.

This stadium won't survive on GAA games alone and will need to pull in a few concerts and that won't happen if the stadium is built out the back end of beyond.

Nathan Carter would fill it for all the country boys up da country !
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on September 06, 2018, 04:58:45 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on September 06, 2018, 04:38:13 PM
Totally agree five points, there was nothing wrong with the stadium to begin with. GAA not very strong in Antrim so it was more than good enough for us the way it was.

It was a bit of a kip but an endearing one. I used enjoy going up to it from Cavan.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on September 06, 2018, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 04:58:45 PM
Quote from: Baile an tuaigh on September 06, 2018, 04:38:13 PM
Totally agree five points, there was nothing wrong with the stadium to begin with. GAA not very strong in Antrim so it was more than good enough for us the way it was.

It was a bit of a kip but an endearing one. I used enjoy going up to it from Cavan.

Me as well. Back in the day  you could drive up in your car at the far bank with pensioners. The boys at the gate would let you in no problem in that case. Great view win win all round.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Correct
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 06, 2018, 07:06:45 PM
I think they thought Casement would be a cinch to pass and build. Should have kept it opened until the dozers moved in.

Donegal played Ulster in late 2012, think was the last match there. Talk was then the new stadium would be up in 2 or 3 years.

Sad state of affairs. Windsor and Ravenhill looking well. Casement would have outshone both of them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 07:25:43 PM
Travelled in the 90s for a Ross game . Great atmosphere in  bar undrr the standv beforevhand.

Was also in it on a much more tense day Donegal vs Derry October 1993  day after the Shsnkhill bombings,  pre Internet days, car radio not working, drove into  some "security presence" totally unknown
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Owen Brannigan on October 01, 2018, 07:44:31 PM
Looks like Casement is a dead duck for the foreseeable future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45703584 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45703584)

Time for Ulster GAA to spend some of its own money to demolish the stand, provide temporary accommodation for changing rooms and renovate the pitch in time for Antrim to play on it next year. A small amount of money in the context of the project and/or Ulster GAA income.

Do not waste another year by leaving the ground to continue to deteriorate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cjx on October 02, 2018, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2018, 04:39:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 06, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on September 06, 2018, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Belfast isn't the spot for this stadium.

Firstly the residents don't want it.
It's too far for people coming from the west and has very poor infrastructure.

A complete rethink is needed. Sell it off for housing. Find a greenfield site and build something suitable that will cater for games with 40k - 50k spectators, concerts and other events.

Bin Casement.

The money is only available for Casement. If it's not Casement there will be no stadium.

Even if the government was in place, would the new plans even meet health and safety requirements?

The Ulster Council and SF have made a complete bollix of the whole process from the very start.

Open to correction but I believe the money is available for a Stadium in the 6 counties. It doesn't have to be Casement. They already looked at the Maze site.

Greater Belfast area was the term used in the report IIRC.

This stadium won't survive on GAA games alone and will need to pull in a few concerts and that won't happen if the stadium is built out the back end of beyond.

Nathan Carter would fill it for all the country boys up da country !

West Brits of West Belfast killed it. Will GAA or anyone be allowed give major grants to non EU state after Brexit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on October 02, 2018, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: cjx on October 02, 2018, 10:39:20 AM
Will GAA or anyone be allowed give major grants to non EU state after Brexit

???

Bizarre question. What the GAA does with it's own money is no business of any government.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thebuzz on October 02, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Correct

It probably wouldn't be just that simple because of the damage done but a few grand should definitely get it playable and it appears to be the only feasible option at the moment.

I'm sure it's been said multiple times but it was such a major mistake starting any site work before the whole thing was passed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 11:46:35 AM
According to an informed source on another forum, "Construction inflation will have gone up 17% from when the first business case was developed until the fourth quarter of 2019, which might be the earliest Casement could go out to tender."

Which means the GAA could have to find another £13m (minimum) to fund their contribution to the £77m(?) cost originally envisaged, unless they seriously scale back the original plan.

Which would at least suit the local residents*.


* - Or "West Belfast's West Brits", as another poster (bizarrely) termed them.  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 02, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Correct

It probably wouldn't be just that simple because of the damage done but a few grand should definitely get it playable and it appears to be the only feasible option at the moment.
It really isn't that simple.

For example, Glentoran's ground, The Oval, could realistically accommodate 25k, but H&S/Council licensing currently restricts it to 6,050. And whilst it's been "on life support" for some years now, it's still in considerably better condition than Casement:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Ovalariel.gif)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on October 02, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 11:54:41 AM
It really isn't that simple.

For example, Glentoran's ground, The Oval, could realistically accommodate 25k, but H&S/Council licensing currently restricts it to 6,050. And whilst it's been "on life support" for some years now, it's still in considerably better condition than Casement:

A stadium fit to accommodate even a few thousand would be a godsend to Antrim at the moment. All they have from Casement right now is a few dozen bales of hay.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 02, 2018, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 02, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Correct

It probably wouldn't be just that simple because of the damage done but a few grand should definitely get it playable and it appears to be the only feasible option at the moment.
It really isn't that simple.

For example, Glentoran's ground, The Oval, could realistically accommodate 25k, but H&S/Council licensing currently restricts it to 6,050. And whilst it's been "on life support" for some years now, it's still in considerably better condition than Casement:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Ovalariel.gif)
As Antrim are sometimes (erroneously) referred to as "The Glensmen", is there any chance of a ground share?  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 02, 2018, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 02, 2018, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 02, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Correct

It probably wouldn't be just that simple because of the damage done but a few grand should definitely get it playable and it appears to be the only feasible option at the moment.
It really isn't that simple.

For example, Glentoran's ground, The Oval, could realistically accommodate 25k, but H&S/Council licensing currently restricts it to 6,050. And whilst it's been "on life support" for some years now, it's still in considerably better condition than Casement:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Ovalariel.gif)
As Antrim are sometimes (erroneously) referred to as "The Glensmen", is there any chance of a ground share?  :D

Groundshare in Co Down??

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 04:13:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 02, 2018, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 02, 2018, 02:07:44 PM
As Antrim are sometimes (erroneously) referred to as "The Glensmen", is there any chance of a ground share?  :D
Groundshare in Co Down??


I'd always have said it was Co.Down, but now I'm not so sure:

https://www.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/2wfpmm/belfast_where_is_the_downantrim_border/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/2wfpmm/belfast_where_is_the_downantrim_border/)
https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2056532564? (https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2056532564?)


Mind you, I'd guess the GAA uses the (traditional) boundary of the Lagan.

Shame, since that's probably the only thing stopping Antrim GAA using "The Home of Football"  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 02, 2018, 09:00:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 06, 2018, 04:30:07 PM
This stadium won't survive on GAA games alone

Sorry, what? Why?

If it is getting built for free, how can it not survive on GAA games alone?

If it were not a daft all singing all dancing white elephant, it'd quite easily survive on GAA games alone.

If they built the new Casement to roughly copy the format of the Athletic Grounds, how could it not survive on GAA games alone and how would it not be entirely suitable for Antrim?


[It'd also be small enough in stature not to piss off the residents as well as retain terracing so maintenance costs are kept down and ticket pricing can be tiered lower than with an all-seater.]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 02, 2018, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: five points on October 02, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
A stadium fit to accommodate even a few thousand would be a godsend to Antrim at the moment. All they have from Casement right now is a few dozen bales of hay.

Have ye not seen the ragweed in it?

Them bales are fit for burning and little else!  8)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: spuds on October 03, 2018, 01:02:46 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 02, 2018, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: five points on October 02, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
A stadium fit to accommodate even a few thousand would be a godsend to Antrim at the moment. All they have from Casement right now is a few dozen bales of hay.

Have ye not seen the ragweed in it?

Them bales are fit for burning and little else!  8)
Did they get second cut silage in this year?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: omaghjoe on October 03, 2018, 04:14:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 02, 2018, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: five points on October 02, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
A stadium fit to accommodate even a few thousand would be a godsend to Antrim at the moment. All they have from Casement right now is a few dozen bales of hay.

Have ye not seen the ragweed in it?

Them bales are fit for burning and little else!  8)

Are they not benweeds?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Never beat the deeler on October 03, 2018, 04:25:11 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2018, 04:14:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 02, 2018, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: five points on October 02, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
A stadium fit to accommodate even a few thousand would be a godsend to Antrim at the moment. All they have from Casement right now is a few dozen bales of hay.

Have ye not seen the ragweed in it?

Them bales are fit for burning and little else!  8)

Are they not benweeds?

An buathaláin buí,

It's glory is seen,

Some call it a weed,

and a weed it may be,

but not to the fairies,

An buathaláin buí.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 03, 2018, 04:29:40 PM
Quote from: spuds on October 03, 2018, 01:02:46 AM
Did they get second cut silage in this year?

Don't think so. Locals were complaining about the noise of the machinery. Some cowboy must have opened the fuel pump a bit too much on his yoke when baling the first cut.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cjx on October 03, 2018, 10:12:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 02, 2018, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 02, 2018, 11:54:41 AM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 02, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: Orchard park on September 06, 2018, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: five points on September 06, 2018, 02:09:29 PM
Quote...our members throughout Ulster and further afield should not be disadvantaged by the ongoing absence of a modern fit for purpose home for the GAA in the city of Belfast.

A mower. Two sets of goalposts. Some line paint. About five dozen terrace barriers.

Then open up the bloody place again for 2019 at least.

Correct

It probably wouldn't be just that simple because of the damage done but a few grand should definitely get it playable and it appears to be the only feasible option at the moment.
It really isn't that simple.

For example, Glentoran's ground, The Oval, could realistically accommodate 25k, but H&S/Council licensing currently restricts it to 6,050. And whilst it's been "on life support" for some years now, it's still in considerably better condition than Casement:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Ovalariel.gif)
As Antrim are sometimes (erroneously) referred to as "The Glensmen", is there any chance of a ground share?  :D
Andy Tyrie's youngfella says "NO"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on October 07, 2018, 06:31:16 PM
Believe the Safety Technical Group has now unanimously backed spectator safety procedures for the redevelopment. One hurdle crossed, but with no minister at Stormont it's still in limbo. IMO Stormont is finished, so could a Brit minister give it the OK?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thejuice on October 07, 2018, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 07, 2018, 06:31:16 PM
Believe the Safety Technical Group has now unanimously backed spectator safety procedures for the redevelopment. One hurdle crossed, but with no minister at Stormont it's still in limbo. IMO Stormont is finished, so could a Brit minister give it the OK?

Surely they could go to the Secretary of State in London considering the amount of planning decisions that go to them these days to get housing pushed through when the local planners aren't playing ball. They go over the heads of local authorities for things like HS2 so why not this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 07, 2018, 10:25:30 PM
When Brexit comes to a head, which is soon, the question of restoring Stormont will arise, as other projects are also help up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: MoChara on October 08, 2018, 08:08:29 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2018/10/08/news/panel-of-experts-back-gaa-fan-safety-procedures-in-casement-park-redevelopment-plan-1452327/

A PANEL of experts has unanimously backed spectator safety procedures in the redevelopment plan for Casement Park.

The endorsement from the group comprising all of the main emergency services comes more than three years after the former chair of the same body triggered a Stormont inquiry when he revealed his concerns about the ill-fated first design for the west Belfast venue.

The Safety Technical Group (STG), which was set up to scrutinise plans to redevelop stadiums in Northern Ireland, has verified steps taken by the GAA to ensure the proposed 34,000-plus capacity stadium could be evacuated safely, with emergency vehicles able to get appropriate access.

The approval of the STG comes as planners continue to assess the second design proposal.

Read More
Sinn Féin says Casement Park project should go ahead Casement Park 'not being progressed' without ministers
Even if the planners ultimately give the green light for the £60 million-plus rebuild, work on the site is still likely to be a way off, as the power-sharing impasse means there is no minister in place to sign off on the revised budget plan.

When, or if, a new stadium gets built, a final safety certificate will still need to be granted by Belfast City Council, with the approval of the police and fire service, for it to be able to host events.

But the GAA has hailed the backing of the STG in the planning process as a significant milestone toward that objective.

A spokesman for the GAA Ulster Council said: "As Casement Park's planning assessment process moves into its final weeks, we welcome that the Safety Technical Group has unanimously verified our work regarding the stadium's design and spectator safety."

He said the STG had been involved in "every step of the project's design development".

"We will continue to work with our dedicated team as we look forward to the conclusion of the statutory process and a formal view on the application from the Planning Service," he added.

Assistant Chief Constable Alan Todd confirmed the PSNI, which had concerns about the original proposal, was now content with the safety aspects of the design.

"At this stage of the development process, the PSNI is assured that the issues of concern have been addressed," he said.

"We will continue to engage with and provide input to the Safety Technical Group to ensure safety, access and egress requirements are met."

A spokeswoman for the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service (NIFRS) said: "NIFRS is satisfied with the revised proposals for emergency exiting and is continuing to engage through the Safety Technical Group on all fire safety requirements for this project."

The GAA's efforts to develop the old stadium site have been mired in controversy, with initial planning approval for a 38,000-capacity venue quashed by the High Court in 2014 following a challenge by nearby residents.

Subsequent to that decision, safety expert Paul Scott told a Stormont oversight committee that he had serious concerns about the original design.

Mr Scott, who was then chair of the STG, said the stadium envisaged could not be emptied safely in an emergency and warned of a similar situation to the Hillsborough tragedy.

His claim prompted an investigation by the Culture, Arts and Leisure committee. The GAA insisted it acted appropriately throughout the first design process.

Nevertheless, given the High Court judgment, it was forced to scale back on its original design, with a second planning application submitted in March 2017 envisaging a target capacity of 34,186.

Despite the reduced size, the plan continues to face vocal opposition from some residents living around the venue. Other residents, however, are supportive of the plan to revive and regenerate the currently overgrown and crumbling stadium site.

The Department for Communities (DfC), responding to a request from planners, has now confirmed that a safety report compiled by the Ulster Council earlier this year has the unanimous backing of all members of the STG.

The STG comprises representatives from Sport NI, Belfast City Council, the PSNI, the NI Ambulance Service, the NI Fire and Rescue Service and the GAA's ground safety management.

A DfC spokeswoman said: "The Department for Communities received a request from the Department for Infrastructure (DfI) strategic planning unit for the Safety Technical Group to verify stadium design and spectator safety information submitted by UCGAA.

"The STG responded by unanimously verifying the accuracy of the spectator safety submitted information. DfC subsequently submitted this information to DfI."

A spokeswoman for the Ambulance Service said: "The Northern Ireland Ambulance Service cooperated with our partner agencies to review issues relating to public safety and the proposals for the redevelopment of Casement Park."

A Belfast City Council spokesman said: "Belfast City Council as a member of the Safety Technical Group provides advice on matters relating to safety in the context of the Safety of Sports Grounds (NI) Order 2006. Belfast City Council has, within the scope of its engagement in the STG, considered safety and evacuation in the process to date. The Council will continue to consider these matters when issuing a general safety certificate based on the final stadium design."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:33:42 AM
Stormont's five main parties were asked if Ulster GAA should receive more public money for Casement Park to plug its £33m budgetary shortfall, and if so how much.
Sinn Féin, the DUP and UUP did not respond.
Credit: Brendan Hughes Twitter

http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/03/12/news/sdlp-fully-supports-more-public-money-for-casement-park-1570371/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on March 12, 2019, 01:26:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?

I will be challenging them on this next time they appear on my doorstep.

For entertainment purposes, I might ask the DUP too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2019, 01:29:23 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 12, 2019, 01:26:05 PM
For entertainment purposes, I might ask the DUP too.

The DUP would be great craic. But I lived in Cross' for years and they never called around.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 13, 2019, 12:41:33 AM
Maybe because this white elephant end up costing more than  King'span and the soccer stadium combined. Waste of money in its current location. We learn nothing from the mess down in Cork.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 12:43:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?
Because they falsified H&S documenation?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 13, 2019, 09:16:24 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 12:43:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?
Because they falsified H&S documenation?

Ohh is that right, you pop in with a statement like that. Show me your evidence
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 09:40:48 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 13, 2019, 09:16:24 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 12:43:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?
Because they falsified H&S documenation?

Ohh is that right, you pop in with a statement like that. Show me your evidence

Thats the story. Read the article above.

The delay is 100% internal to the GAA
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 13, 2019, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 09:40:48 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 13, 2019, 09:16:24 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 12:43:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?
Because they falsified H&S documenation?

Ohh is that right, you pop in with a statement like that. Show me your evidence

Thats the story. Read the article above.

The delay is 100% internal to the GAA

Yeah but that's just some Unionists opinion, doesn't mean it's correct.

You also say because the N I Government are not in place to move this forward then it's the GAA's fault
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 13, 2019, 09:55:00 AM
"Gah bad" man at it again ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 09:56:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 13, 2019, 09:55:00 AM
"Gah bad" man at it again ::)

Do you ever question the GAA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2019, 10:34:02 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 09:56:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 13, 2019, 09:55:00 AM
"Gah bad" man at it again ::)

Do you ever question the GAA?

Ignore Duffer. He only signed up to bash the GAA over a fundraiser for a Millionaire in Cork.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on March 13, 2019, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2019, 10:34:02 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 09:56:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 13, 2019, 09:55:00 AM
"Gah bad" man at it again ::)

Do you ever question the GAA?

Ignore Duffer. He only signed up to bash the GAA over a fundraiser for a Millionaire in Cork.

Jeez you're nasty
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 11:09:06 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 13, 2019, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 09:40:48 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 13, 2019, 09:16:24 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 13, 2019, 12:43:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
SF need to come out an explicitly say that they support GAA and the redevelopment of this Stadium. They have held it up for long enough. Rugby and Soccer all have first class stadia. Why not GAA the largest sport in the North?
Because they falsified H&S documenation?

Ohh is that right, you pop in with a statement like that. Show me your evidence



Thats the story. Read the article above.

The delay is 100% internal to the GAA

Yeah but that's just some Unionists opinion, doesn't mean it's correct.

You also say because the N I Government are not in place to move this forward then it's the GAA's fault

The argument was put forth that the reason the IFA and IRFU have their stadia done and dusted and the GAA dont is political bias.

That is bollocks.

The delay in the project was invalid health and safety projections, which put the whole thing on the back burner that was only cleared up a few days ago. We need to start holding our own to account, not blaming mythical unionist bogeymen
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on March 13, 2019, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final

Is that definitely decided?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on March 13, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final

A QF as in a Super 8 game? Why would that happen unless Antrim reach that stage?

I'd say the Ulster final will be played there. But if Donegal play Fermanagh in a Ulster semi, why take it to Belfast? Surely Clones makes more sense?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 02:02:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final
But how many of those matches will be at capacity (34,500) or close to it? I'd still say around 1 per year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 13, 2019, 02:05:43 PM
I would imagine Casement being milked for as much as possible (if built) so to say it will only host one championship game is absurd.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on March 13, 2019, 02:21:01 PM
I can't see a new Casement bringing in much extra attendance.

Are there many sold out championship games in smaller grounds?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 13, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 13, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final

A QF as in a Super 8 game? Why would that happen unless Antrim reach that stage?

I'd say the Ulster final will be played there. But if Donegal play Fermanagh in a Ulster semi, why take it to Belfast? Surely Clones makes more sense?

For the very same reason Clare and Wexford hurlers were dragged down to Cork to play an AI quarter final last year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 13, 2019, 02:27:47 PM
If built!? Ulster championship games, Possilbe Super 8 game. Ire-Aus boring rules, possible other sports and throw in the odd concert. While they mightened fill to capacity constantly there is the potential to make alot of money for Ulster GAA and the surrounding area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 13, 2019, 02:53:25 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 13, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 13, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final

A QF as in a Super 8 game? Why would that happen unless Antrim reach that stage?

I'd say the Ulster final will be played there. But if Donegal play Fermanagh in a Ulster semi, why take it to Belfast? Surely Clones makes more sense?

For the very same reason Clare and Wexford hurlers were dragged down to Cork to play an AI quarter final last year.
That was a knock out Qtr Final.
"Super 8(sic)" is Croke Park, Home and Away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on March 13, 2019, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 13, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 13, 2019, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: dec on March 13, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
How many games per year would the new Casement be at capacity or close to capacity?
Totally dependent on who plays in the provincial football final, so it could 0 or 1.

If its built, they have to play all of them at Casement, along with a quater final

A QF as in a Super 8 game? Why would that happen unless Antrim reach that stage?

I'd say the Ulster final will be played there. But if Donegal play Fermanagh in a Ulster semi, why take it to Belfast? Surely Clones makes more sense?

For the very same reason Clare and Wexford hurlers were dragged down to Cork to play an AI quarter final last year.

Maybe they could move Dublin's third (away) super 8 match there. So instead of say playing Tyrone in Omagh, Tyrone would have to give up home advantage and face the Dubs in a neutral venue. It's only fair like.

Yes Clare Wexford in Cork is mad, but that was the gaa making it up as they went along. There is simply no reason why a Super 8 game will be played in Casement (unless it's Antrim).The rules are 1 home, 1 away and 1 neutral. Unless you're Dublin of course.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on March 13, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
Grounds in corners of the country - think Ballybofey, Wexford Park, Fitzgerald Stadium - tend rarely if ever to get high-profile games except as a home venue for one of the competing teams.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 14, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
It's not all about how many big games will it get...The Antrim Gaels deserve it as it's their County ground, their club championships deserve a proper stadium for semi finals and finals. Their County footballers and Hurlers deserve a proper stadium for their Co matches, a ground to call HOME.
It can and will host the Ulster finals and showcase the ground off to everyone else, it will bring in jobs to the area and it will be used 7 days a week for conferences and meeting etc. It will be used for business usage and needs built ASAP.
I remember Athletic grounds (Armagh) being constructed and having to travel to Crossmaglen for finals and Co matches which was a pain in the arse and we were lucky that Crossmaglen had a good ground and facilities to accommodate Armagh, I don't believe Antrim have this luxury setup within their clubs setups...

Long story short no matter what you all think is it needs built ASAP and should be, the money has to be found from somewhere and get it done. The money is for just Casement and no other site (before that comes up again), Antrim football and Hurling will only improve for it...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 14, 2019, 09:44:13 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 14, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
It's not all about how many big games will it get...The Antrim Gaels deserve it as it's their County ground, their club championships deserve a proper stadium for semi finals and finals. Their County footballers and Hurlers deserve a proper stadium for their Co matches, a ground to call HOME.
It can and will host the Ulster finals and showcase the ground off to everyone else, it will bring in jobs to the area and it will be used 7 days a week for conferences and meeting etc. It will be used for business usage and needs built ASAP.
I remember Athletic grounds (Armagh) being constructed and having to travel to Crossmaglen for finals and Co matches which was a pain in the arse and we were lucky that Crossmaglen had a good ground and facilities to accommodate Armagh, I don't believe Antrim have this luxury setup within their clubs setups...

Long story short no matter what you all think is it needs built ASAP and should be, the money has to be found from somewhere and get it done. The money is for just Casement and no other site (before that comes up again), Antrim football and Hurling will only improve for it...

Antrim won't own it, Ulster GAA will by the looks of it.

You'd hope that Antrim would have the use of it at their request all the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 14, 2019, 10:21:07 AM
Ulster GAA should have a fit for purpose ground. There is no good reason for this not to happen. Politicians and the GAA need to come out and push this issue forward. The community groups must be faced down. Their objections are not valid, it is a case of NIMBY. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on March 14, 2019, 10:49:20 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 14, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
It's not all about how many big games will it get...The Antrim Gaels deserve it as it's their County ground, their club championships deserve a proper stadium for semi finals and finals. Their County footballers and Hurlers deserve a proper stadium for their Co matches, a ground to call HOME.


The idea that the GAA should repeat the Pairc Ui Chaoimh fiasco by blowing tens of millions on building an unwanted palace to hold the Antrim club championship semi finals and finals is crazy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 14, 2019, 11:05:00 AM
Why did they shut it down altogether?
Whatever the outcome I would have expected the Stadium would continue to be used till work started.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2019, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2019, 11:05:00 AM
Why did they shut it down altogether?
Whatever the outcome I would have expected the Stadium would continue to be used till work started.

Keeping it open would be common sense. I'd love to know who decided to do otherwise.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 14, 2019, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2019, 11:05:00 AM
Why did they shut it down altogether?
Whatever the outcome I would have expected the Stadium would continue to be used till work started.

They (all stakeholders involved) assumed there would be no objections and work would start on it ASAP. How did that go!?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2019, 12:44:51 PM
They have spent 10 million to date for no return. When it was clear this was going nowhere fast, some of that money should have been put into tidying up the existing stand to allow for continued use pending a final decision.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on March 14, 2019, 01:14:32 PM
My guess is that the Ulster Council realised at the outset that the British government offer was too good to be true and that it would likely be scrapped if circumstances changed or anything happened Cameron's government.

So they deliberately put themselves in a position where there would be no stadium at all if it didn't get completed.

But they never spotted the planning issues.

Heads must roll.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2019, 03:02:36 PM
Quote from: five points on March 14, 2019, 01:14:32 PM
My guess is that the Ulster Council realised at the outset that the British government offer was too good to be true and that it would likely be scrapped if circumstances changed or anything happened Cameron's government.

So they deliberately put themselves in a position where there would be no stadium at all if it didn't get completed.

But they never spotted the planning issues.

Heads must roll.

The proper thing to do was to demolish the main stand or some such, but carefully not damage the pitch. This would create a need for the work, without completely depriving Antrim of the use of the ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2019, 10:49:15 PM
Just listened to the head woman at the civil service talk about Casement, passing the buck and the ministers and political parties here should take a fecking reddner. Embarrassing
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on May 28, 2019, 08:16:53 AM
What do yous all make of the latest World Cup bid?   I think it's guff.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on May 28, 2019, 08:22:35 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on May 28, 2019, 08:16:53 AM
What do yous all make of the latest World Cup bid?   I think it's guff.

Yes it is
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 22, 2019, 07:36:38 PM
latest
https://ulster.gaa.ie/2019/11/letter-to-all-gaa-units-in-ulster-from-tom-daly-chairman-of-casement-park-stadium-development-project-board/

Apparently it will accommodate 34,500 inclusive of 8,500 standing with roof capacity for all spectators.
Roof capacity is perhaps an unfortunate wording.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 24, 2019, 03:46:17 PM
He has a neck like a jockeys bollocks blaming the government for the delays
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 24, 2019, 03:59:19 PM
They got greedy wanting a concert venue.

They are still wanting a f**king concert venue. With one terrace which would be behind the "stage".

Jokeshop.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile an tuaigh on November 24, 2019, 04:01:26 PM
Always liked the old Casment park and for some reason old stadiums in general. As someone pointed out a few page's back that all we need is to re sew the field, put up new goal posts clean and repaint the place then we should be good to go. Throw the ball in!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 24, 2019, 04:34:20 PM
What shape is Casement in at present - could it be 'fixed up' on a temporary basis to hold say, 10, 000 for club/county game?
Is it badly run down and if so, is it the pitch?  Would it be worthwhile to fix it up short-term?  Or will Corrigan Park suffice?
I'm sure the concrete stands (if still there?) are still ok?
Anybody see it recently?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Was one of the things not that the stands weren't safe too? Looking at the pictures of the pitch it would take a lot of work to get back into shape but I am sure there are boys about who could sort it. It would take a good while though.

For all the crowds Antrim ever get corrigan would do for now. It's only if we ever get a home championship game it becomes an issue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on November 24, 2019, 04:47:33 PM
Google Casement Park and you'll see what's it like at present.. Its a wasteland and no chance could be temporary fixed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on November 24, 2019, 04:52:44 PM
From a 2018 article

(https://cdn-01.independent.ie/incoming/article37242735.ece/c404f/BINARY/60casement.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on November 24, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
I always enjoy a trip to the Athletic Grounds.  A few thousand people creates a good atmosphere there. The whole Casement Project should be scrapped and just start from scratch. Build something suitable for Antrim, small and compact.  Would be much better than a big white elephant which will only be full once a year.  It's just another one of the shambles stories from the Stormont era (reading Burned at the moment).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on November 24, 2019, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 24, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
I always enjoy a trip to the Athletic Grounds.  A few thousand people creates a good atmosphere there. The whole Casement Project should be scrapped and just start from scratch. Build something suitable for Antrim, small and compact.  Would be much better than a big white elephant which will only be full once a year.  It's just another one of the shambles stories from the Stormont era (reading Burned at the moment).

Needs to be able to hold enough for the Wolfe Tones and whatever else Feile will be putting on each summer
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on November 24, 2019, 05:49:45 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 24, 2019, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 24, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
I always enjoy a trip to the Athletic Grounds.  A few thousand people creates a good atmosphere there. The whole Casement Project should be scrapped and just start from scratch. Build something suitable for Antrim, small and compact.  Would be much better than a big white elephant which will only be full once a year.  It’s just another one of the shambles stories from the Stormont era (reading Burned at the moment).

Needs to be able to hold enough for the Wolfe Tones and whatever else Feile will be putting on each summer
Great, pack them into a nice compact venue and they can sing Grace til their hearts are content.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 24, 2019, 06:50:05 PM
Quote from: dec on November 24, 2019, 04:52:44 PM
From a 2018 article

(https://cdn-01.independent.ie/incoming/article37242735.ece/c404f/BINARY/60casement.jpg)

A quick mower on the grass, plough and reseed and pitch would be ok I'd say.  Looks worse than it is.

Stand looks ok - anybody feom Belfast know for sure is it structurally sound?  As I said, I'm sure the concrete terracing is ok. It's just been closed up so I presume there's been no major work started on it yet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 24, 2019, 07:35:31 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 24, 2019, 07:15:47 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 24, 2019, 05:27:42 PM
I always enjoy a trip to the Athletic Grounds.  A few thousand people creates a good atmosphere there. The whole Casement Project should be scrapped and just start from scratch. Build something suitable for Antrim, small and compact.  Would be much better than a big white elephant which will only be full once a year.  It's just another one of the shambles stories from the Stormont era (reading Burned at the moment).

That's the main reason I never really enjoyed going to games in the old Casement - the ground being so open and the distance between the pitch and the stands always gave it a "cold" feeling even if the attendance was well into five figures. Healy Park suffers something similar, but to a lesser extent. The Athletic Grounds benefits from having two roofed areas along the length of both sides of the pitch, as well as both those stands being quite close to the playing area. Doesn't take too many people to get a good atmosphere going.

Breffni Park has the best atmosphere in my opinion.  If it's a full house and big game, it make for a super atmosphere.  It's like a bowl like ground and great for a big game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Will it ever end on November 24, 2019, 07:53:21 PM
I don't believe for one second the departmental delays are the cause here just a stick to be used to beat the drums - the clout these guys have with political & local government departments their surely versed in all the issues -  a complete shit show!

What they've went for is too big to be accommodated in the area & the only natural response is to scale back but they won't to save embarrassment - the irony being the longer this drags out the more embarrassing it becomes!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 25, 2019, 12:28:31 AM
While the delay is an embarrassment, the real scandal is that the existing ground was closed while they were futtering about.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2019, 08:11:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 25, 2019, 12:28:31 AM
While the delay is an embarrassment, the real scandal is that the existing ground was closed while they were futtering about.

100%
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 25, 2019, 09:21:02 AM
Amazing how no heads have rolled within the GAA over this disaster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 25, 2019, 09:31:28 AM
Who are the guilty parties?

Who in the Ulster Council should face the chop?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on November 25, 2019, 09:38:47 AM
Get Casement Done +1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on November 25, 2019, 09:52:49 AM
I think the stand was a health and safety issue.  Not enough exits. Dark narrow exits that did exist. But it couldve been kept open until the bulldozers were ready. Was handy for school and club games if not fit for county.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on November 25, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
The electrics in the stand was the issue.Belfast City Council would not issue the safety certificate until the electrics in the stand were rewired. As Antrim were of the opinion the project was starting they let the safety certificate run out as it would have cost £10000 to complete the repairs.Ulster Council are responsible for the present state of Casement Park and they've recently submitted another application for a  34000 capacity stadium which in my opinion is another farce.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 28, 2019, 09:41:40 AM
If capacity had been say 30k, would that have got it over the line.

Was the GAA's insistence (greed) at setting it at 34k the main reason for failure?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:45:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 28, 2019, 09:41:40 AM
If capacity had been say 30k, would that have got it over the line.

Was the GAA's insistence (greed) at setting it at 34k the main reason for failure?

The entire justification for the project from the outset was that it would be able to comfortably host Ulster finals. That no longer holds at 30k capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2019, 10:48:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:45:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 28, 2019, 09:41:40 AM
If capacity had been say 30k, would that have got it over the line.

Was the GAA's insistence (greed) at setting it at 34k the main reason for failure?

The entire justification for the project from the outset was that it would be able to comfortably host Ulster finals. That no longer holds at 30k capacity.

Bollocks.

The entire justification (in the minds of the Ulster Council) would be that they could hold conc€rt$ at it.


Nothing else justifies such an over-specified white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:59:11 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2019, 10:48:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:45:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 28, 2019, 09:41:40 AM
If capacity had been say 30k, would that have got it over the line.

Was the GAA's insistence (greed) at setting it at 34k the main reason for failure?

The entire justification for the project from the outset was that it would be able to comfortably host Ulster finals. That no longer holds at 30k capacity.

Bollocks.

The entire justification (in the minds of the Ulster Council) would be that they could hold conc€rt$ at it.


Nothing else justifies such an over-specified white elephant.

Why then has Clones barely got even a lick of paint in the meantime?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 28, 2019, 12:40:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

The fiasco isn't that the new stadium hasn't been built. It is that the old one was prematurely demolished. Residents and local bigwigs had no part in that decision.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on November 28, 2019, 12:51:23 PM
Everyone knows Croke Park can be soulless unless it's packed.  I dread to think what Antrim club games will fee like in such a big stadium.  IMO a whole bunch of people got carried away with themselves and now they can't get down off the ledge.  It's totally inappropriate for Antrim GAA who need a small modern stadium which can generate atmosphere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 28, 2019, 12:59:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

Do you think a stadium of that magnitude and the additional usage required could work on that site?

Local residents didn't file deliberately falsified H&S reports either
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2019, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:59:11 AM
Why then has Clones barely got even a lick of paint in the meantime?

-> To make everyone in Ulster GAA believe we need Casement*. Or I suppose, keep quiet the question of "why do we need Casement?"
-> To put pressure onto decision makers (don't quite know if that will work given tribals here)
-> To not divert money away from the big white elephant.


*Even though everyone has survived quite happily without it as a major county ground for 20 years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on November 28, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

What local politicians have objected ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: HiMucker on November 28, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 28, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

What local politicians have objected ?
Wait for it. Hes going to blame SF for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 28, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 28, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 28, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

What local politicians have objected ?
Wait for it. Hes going to blame SF for it.

It's the Shinners baby so he can't this time...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 28, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 28, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

What local politicians have objected ?
Wait for it. Hes going to blame SF for it.

If we'd a working government here in N.I then we wouldn't have (I'd hope) a shit storm that we are having now with all the delays!!

But I have to laugh at these politicians coming out now in West Belfast saying they are going to do whatever it takes to get Casement built, here's one, get back to work ya miserable cows and make it happen, election time and it seems hip to stand at Casement for a nice photo and state that we need to build Casement, its not our fault !!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 28, 2019, 04:37:33 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 28, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 28, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 28, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

What local politicians have objected ?
Wait for it. Hes going to blame SF for it.

It's the Shinners baby so he can't this time...

If anything the Shinners couldn't get the thing built quick enough.

Riding roughshod over the H&S report findings was the main issue as to why the build was stopped and rightly so.

FYI,
This stadium if it ever gets built will not be controlled by Antrim GAA, but the Ulster Council.

The Antrim lads and ladies may get a run out in it every once in a while.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 04:48:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 28, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 28, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2019, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 28, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
I see there's an article with Justin McNulty MLA in the Irish news - the Ulster Council have obviously decided to force the planners hands by bringing a concerted media campaign calling for a decision.  Justin particularly notable given he's elected & members of his own party sit on the planning committee at Belfast City Council.

Something needs to be done - well over 1000 days since the ground was closed up.  Ulster Council must be getting the push on and rightly so.

It's like one that question in The Blame Game - Who's to blame.....for the Casement Park fiasco?

Residents and local politicians in West Belfast who have objected at every turnaround. NIMBY

What local politicians have objected ?
Wait for it. Hes going to blame SF for it.

If we'd a working government here in N.I then we wouldn't have (I'd hope) a shit storm that we are having now with all the delays!!

But I have to laugh at these politicians coming out now in West Belfast saying they are going to do whatever it takes to get Casement built, here's one, get back to work ya miserable cows and make it happen, election time and it seems hip to stand at Casement for a nice photo and state that we need to build Casement, its not our fault !!

All well and good but should SF go back in with no Irish Language Act?  That's the major barrier.

There was an agreement but it was scuppered by the OO/UDA/DUP as they couldn't sell it to their followers.  Granted SF dropped the SSM deal like a balloon but point still stands if all parties agree to go back in, where is the starting point...from where they left off?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 28, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Where do they start when they go back then? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.

Are you serious? Or being pedantic? While I love Irish culture and GAA speaking Irish or any other language in government isn't cutting the mustard with basic health and well-being issues, education and reform, housing and infrastructure and better solutions to helping the environment are much more crucial.

If you'd rather be able to speak Irish in government (which you can if you want to and be fluent in Irish) than sorting out real issues then knock yourself out. In the real world let's just call a spade a spade.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 29, 2019, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.
So about 5 people.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 29, 2019, 11:52:20 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2019, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:59:11 AM
Why then has Clones barely got even a lick of paint in the meantime?

-> To make everyone in Ulster GAA believe we need Casement*. Or I suppose, keep quiet the question of "why do we need Casement?"
-> To put pressure onto decision makers (don't quite know if that will work given tribals here)
-> To not divert money away from the big white elephant.


*Even though everyone has survived quite happily without it as a major county ground for 20 years.
Clones was built because there is vat on tickets in the 6c and not the south. Has that suddenly changed?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 29, 2019, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 29, 2019, 11:52:20 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2019, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:59:11 AM
Why then has Clones barely got even a lick of paint in the meantime?

-> To make everyone in Ulster GAA believe we need Casement*. Or I suppose, keep quiet the question of "why do we need Casement?"
-> To put pressure onto decision makers (don't quite know if that will work given tribals here)
-> To not divert money away from the big white elephant.


*Even though everyone has survived quite happily without it as a major county ground for 20 years.
Clones was built because there is vat on tickets in the 6c and not the south. Has that suddenly changed?

Clones was built because it was an importangt rail junction and the RUC couldn't harrass you there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 29, 2019, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 29, 2019, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 29, 2019, 11:52:20 AM

Clones was built because there is vat on tickets in the 6c and not the south. Has that suddenly changed?

Clones was built because it was an importangt rail junction and the RUC couldn't harrass you there.
There was neither VAT nor an RUC when Clones hosted its first Ulster final in 1905
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2019, 12:40:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 29, 2019, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 29, 2019, 11:52:20 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2019, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:59:11 AM
Why then has Clones barely got even a lick of paint in the meantime?

-> To make everyone in Ulster GAA believe we need Casement*. Or I suppose, keep quiet the question of "why do we need Casement?"
-> To put pressure onto decision makers (don't quite know if that will work given tribals here)
-> To not divert money away from the big white elephant.


*Even though everyone has survived quite happily without it as a major county ground for 20 years.
Clones was built because there is vat on tickets in the 6c and not the south. Has that suddenly changed?

Clones was built because it was an importangt rail junction and the RUC couldn't harrass you there.
They just harassed you on the way to Clones
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.

Are you serious? Or being pedantic? While I love Irish culture and GAA speaking Irish or any other language in government isn't cutting the mustard with basic health and well-being issues, education and reform, housing and infrastructure and better solutions to helping the environment are much more crucial.

If you'd rather be able to speak Irish in government (which you can if you want to and be fluent in Irish) than sorting out real issues then knock yourself out. In the real world let's just call a spade a spade.

A state of the Art compact stadium to host Ulster finals etc is overdue, whether Casement is the place for this remains to be seen.

Would totally agree re Irish language act and real world . Health, jobs, economy , education is what directly effects all of us, and by neglecting these things many people are suffering . SF are potentially playing a game of making NI unworkable and highlighting that NI is a failure ( which it is under most parameters whether there is a government or not ) . The danger with this game is that it antigonises unionists and motivates them to resist anything which erodes the union as they see it, whilst most nationalists and republicans even SF supporters are annoyed by the effects of no government.
It annoys me that those promoting the Irish language are now being blamed by all unionists and most nationalists for the current fiasco , through lazy media analysis.

A few points re Irish language :
1. The Irish language act merely replicates acts in Scotland and Wales
2. Most modern civilisations respect the importance of maintaining indigenous language and culture
3. Unionists lack of generosity re the Irish language mirrors their previous resistance to civil rights campaign , for some it's a manifestation of a racist anti-Irish ethos .
4. SF should define the specifics of the Act which should emphasise an evidenced based approach to promoting a language . This should include promotion and protection of positive cultural heritages for all communities , whilst calling out negative and exclusive culture for what it is.
5. SF owe it to their supporters many of whom are suffering due to lack of government to get back in to stormont and could steal the high moral ground by agreeing to Park the New cultural act for a 2 year period and would be justified in pulling the plug again if no progress agreed in that time frame. Clearly exposing DUP , whilst gaining back respect from all of nationalism and middle ground and even some unionists
6. Some sort of All-Island settlement is inevitable within the next 10 years, it seems to me that getting unionists on side should be of paramount concern for those serious about a UI


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 29, 2019, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 02:46:03 PM
A few points re Irish language :
1. The Irish language act merely replicates acts in Scotland and Wales
2. Most modern civilisations respect the importance of maintaining indigenous language and culture
3. Unionists lack of generosity re the Irish language mirrors their previous resistance to civil rights campaign , for some it's a manifestation of a racist anti-Irish ethos .
4. SF should define the specifics of the Act which should emphasise an evidenced based approach to promoting a language . This should include promotion and protection of positive cultural heritages for all communities , whilst calling out negative and exclusive culture for what it is.
5. SF owe it to their supporters many of whom are suffering due to lack of government to get back in to stormont and could steal the high moral ground by agreeing to Park the New cultural act for a 2 year period and would be justified in pulling the plug again if no progress agreed in that time frame. Clearly exposing DUP , whilst gaining back respect from all of nationalism and middle ground and even some unionists
6. Some sort of All-Island settlement is inevitable within the next 10 years, it seems to me that getting unionists on side should be of paramount concern for those serious about a UI

Serious logic disconnect between points 3/4 and 6. You won't get anyone onside if you dismiss them as racist (!) and anti-Irish and their culture negative and exclusive.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: five points on November 29, 2019, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 02:46:03 PM
A few points re Irish language :
1. The Irish language act merely replicates acts in Scotland and Wales
2. Most modern civilisations respect the importance of maintaining indigenous language and culture
3. Unionists lack of generosity re the Irish language mirrors their previous resistance to civil rights campaign , for some it's a manifestation of a racist anti-Irish ethos .
4. SF should define the specifics of the Act which should emphasise an evidenced based approach to promoting a language . This should include promotion and protection of positive cultural heritages for all communities , whilst calling out negative and exclusive culture for what it is.
5. SF owe it to their supporters many of whom are suffering due to lack of government to get back in to stormont and could steal the high moral ground by agreeing to Park the New cultural act for a 2 year period and would be justified in pulling the plug again if no progress agreed in that time frame. Clearly exposing DUP , whilst gaining back respect from all of nationalism and middle ground and even some unionists
6. Some sort of All-Island settlement is inevitable within the next 10 years, it seems to me that getting unionists on side should be of paramount concern for those serious about a UI

Serious logic disconnect between points 3/4 and 6. You won't get anyone onside if you dismiss them as racist (!) and anti-Irish and their culture negative and exclusive.

That's part of the problem
Here. We don't call out negativity and lack of generosity for what it is. And that includes those nationalists who ridicule Ulster Scots culture. Some Unionist politicians have a Clear history of racism and anti-irishness and this must be vigorously challenged particularly from
Unionists themselves. What's wrong with calling out negative and exclusive culture for what it is( And this relates to both sides) ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on November 29, 2019, 03:15:33 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 03:05:07 PM
That's part of the problem
Here. We don't call out negativity and lack of generosity for what it is.

Wake up, the place is drowning in negativity and lack of generosity. As your last few posts illustrate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: playwiththewind1st on November 29, 2019, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 29, 2019, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.
So about 5 people.

6 - if you include Gregory Campbell.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 29, 2019, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on November 29, 2019, 03:46:59 PM
6 - if you include Gregory Campbell.

Ah, I don't think he'll find a great demand for curried yoghurt out there... no matter how much money InvestNI fires his way.

Maybe he could get a woodchip boiler in to heat the curried yoghurt factory... might be a goer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 29, 2019, 04:14:21 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.

Are you serious? Or being pedantic? While I love Irish culture and GAA speaking Irish or any other language in government isn't cutting the mustard with basic health and well-being issues, education and reform, housing and infrastructure and better solutions to helping the environment are much more crucial.

If you'd rather be able to speak Irish in government (which you can if you want to and be fluent in Irish) than sorting out real issues then knock yourself out. In the real world let's just call a spade a spade.

A state of the Art compact stadium to host Ulster finals etc is overdue, whether Casement is the place for this remains to be seen.

Would totally agree re Irish language act and real world . Health, jobs, economy , education is what directly effects all of us, and by neglecting these things many people are suffering . SF are potentially playing a game of making NI unworkable and highlighting that NI is a failure ( which it is under most parameters whether there is a government or not ) . The danger with this game is that it antigonises unionists and motivates them to resist anything which erodes the union as they see it, whilst most nationalists and republicans even SF supporters are annoyed by the effects of no government.
It annoys me that those promoting the Irish language are now being blamed by all unionists and most nationalists for the current fiasco , through lazy media analysis.

A few points re Irish language :
1. The Irish language act merely replicates acts in Scotland and Wales
2. Most modern civilisations respect the importance of maintaining indigenous language and culture
3. Unionists lack of generosity re the Irish language mirrors their previous resistance to civil rights campaign , for some it's a manifestation of a racist anti-Irish ethos .
4. SF should define the specifics of the Act which should emphasise an evidenced based approach to promoting a language . This should include promotion and protection of positive cultural heritages for all communities , whilst calling out negative and exclusive culture for what it is.
5. SF owe it to their supporters many of whom are suffering due to lack of government to get back in to stormont and could steal the high moral ground by agreeing to Park the New cultural act for a 2 year period and would be justified in pulling the plug again if no progress agreed in that time frame. Clearly exposing DUP , whilst gaining back respect from all of nationalism and middle ground and even some unionists
6. Some sort of All-Island settlement is inevitable within the next 10 years, it seems to me that getting unionists on side should be of paramount concern for those serious about a UI

The problem I think is the ILA symbolises a lot more than an ILA - it's about being Irish in the 6 counties and recognition.  The English tried to wipe it out by various ways down through the centuries but it's still here.  If the DUP agree to an ILA, then it shows they have failed - that the 6 counties is Irish. That's why the ILA was kicked into tough by the OO/UDA etc.  They understand it's more important than the language itself - it symbolises all the rest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on December 02, 2019, 04:38:30 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 29, 2019, 04:14:21 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 29, 2019, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 28, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 11:09:36 PM
Quote from: under the bar on November 28, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2019, 05:51:23 PM
So everything goes tits up for the Irish language act? We have no assembly because of the Irish language act, education, nhs, funding, social welfare and everything else a local government wants to provide can't be done because of the Irish language act?

Get a majority and push it through, until then work the system.

Substitute 'denial of equality' for 'Irish Language Act' and your post will make more sense.

Now who in n.i is actually being denied equality?

People who wish to conduct  business with their government in a language spoken here for 2 millenia.

Are you serious? Or being pedantic? While I love Irish culture and GAA speaking Irish or any other language in government isn't cutting the mustard with basic health and well-being issues, education and reform, housing and infrastructure and better solutions to helping the environment are much more crucial.

If you'd rather be able to speak Irish in government (which you can if you want to and be fluent in Irish) than sorting out real issues then knock yourself out. In the real world let's just call a spade a spade.

A state of the Art compact stadium to host Ulster finals etc is overdue, whether Casement is the place for this remains to be seen.

Would totally agree re Irish language act and real world . Health, jobs, economy , education is what directly effects all of us, and by neglecting these things many people are suffering . SF are potentially playing a game of making NI unworkable and highlighting that NI is a failure ( which it is under most parameters whether there is a government or not ) . The danger with this game is that it antigonises unionists and motivates them to resist anything which erodes the union as they see it, whilst most nationalists and republicans even SF supporters are annoyed by the effects of no government.
It annoys me that those promoting the Irish language are now being blamed by all unionists and most nationalists for the current fiasco , through lazy media analysis.

A few points re Irish language :
1. The Irish language act merely replicates acts in Scotland and Wales
2. Most modern civilisations respect the importance of maintaining indigenous language and culture
3. Unionists lack of generosity re the Irish language mirrors their previous resistance to civil rights campaign , for some it's a manifestation of a racist anti-Irish ethos .
4. SF should define the specifics of the Act which should emphasise an evidenced based approach to promoting a language . This should include promotion and protection of positive cultural heritages for all communities , whilst calling out negative and exclusive culture for what it is.
5. SF owe it to their supporters many of whom are suffering due to lack of government to get back in to stormont and could steal the high moral ground by agreeing to Park the New cultural act for a 2 year period and would be justified in pulling the plug again if no progress agreed in that time frame. Clearly exposing DUP , whilst gaining back respect from all of nationalism and middle ground and even some unionists
6. Some sort of All-Island settlement is inevitable within the next 10 years, it seems to me that getting unionists on side should be of paramount concern for those serious about a UI

The problem I think is the ILA symbolises a lot more than an ILA - it's about being Irish in the 6 counties and recognition.  The English tried to wipe it out by various ways down through the centuries but it's still here.  If the DUP agree to an ILA, then it shows they have failed - that the 6 counties is Irish. That's why the ILA was kicked into tough by the OO/UDA etc.  They understand it's more important than the language itself - it symbolises all the rest.

That's it in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on December 04, 2019, 11:55:08 AM
Ballbag Nolan was attempting to corner Stephen Farry on his show one morning when Farry said he'd be on for an Irish Language act.
Nolan badgered him by implying that he was giving in to one side and then nothing for the other.

Farry questioned Ballbags attempt to frame the debate around one side or the other when the Irish language should be a shared cultural experience.

Ballbag really couldn't get his head round that, but then again I don't think he's much of a deep thinker, unless it's the base of his pizza he's interested in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
From BBC Northern Ireland:

"The long-delayed Casement Park redevelopment could receive planning permission by spring, the GAA has said.
The chairman of Ulster GAA said planning authorities had indicated they were "hopeful" the process could come to an end, possibly by early April.
Tom Daly said it was "up to us in the GAA" to do what was needed to ensure a "successful planning outcome".
However a residents group, which has opposed the current plans, called for "a suitably-sized redevelopment".
His comments came after Communities Minister Deirdre Hargey said she was confident a new stadium would be built.
However, she indicated a further delay in the project would mean an increase in costs.
Ms Hargey made her comments on a visit to the site of the existing stadium in west Belfast along with Mr Daly and Finance Minister Conor Murphy.
'Increased costs'
The project, now waiting on planning permission, has been the subject of legal challenge from residents in the past.
The Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association (MORA) said they have "consistently stated" their objections to "the large scale development of Casement Park".
"There are obvious questions over the suitability of Casement and this is why the planning application is taking so long," they said.
The group say they want "a suitably-sized redevelopment of Casement Park which is GAA-orientated" and "part of the natural fabric of the community".
The initial cost of the project was estimated at £77m, however, that estimate has now risen to £110m.
Deirdre Hargey, Tom Daly, Conor Murphy
Image caption
Deirdre Hargey, Tom Daly and Conor Murphy were speaking on the site of the existing stadium in west Belfast
Minister Hargey said officials had "to ensure public safety was not compromised".
"For those reasons, obviously the delay in the project meant that there would be an increase in costs around ensuring public safety as number one, then obviously an increase in costs around construction."
Ms Hargey said she wanted to see diggers on the site in the next few years.
Mr Daly added that the return of ministers at Stormont meant that a lot of the "uncertainty" around progressing the project was now gone.
The project is part of the New Decade, New Approach agreement, which was presented by the UK and Irish governments last week.
The initial proposals for the redevelopment of the stadium collapsed in 2014 under a legal challenge brought by a group of residents.
A fresh planning application was submitted in February 2017 and is now awaiting a decision from the Department for Infrastructure."

What gets my goat about this is the 15 odd years of stagnation that Antrim GAA have suffered whilst losing kids to less better sports.   If there really is a safety issue re: evacuation then that should have been something that the authorities flagged at the outset.  Rugby and football/soccer were fast-tracked above and beyond.  The GAA would have a more than arguable case that the statutory advice was less than competent.   Antrim GAA should lodge a claim.   By the by I give Stormont 12 months unless 50/50 policing is restored, so much for our standalone Irish language Act
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2020, 10:56:25 PM
It's a joke and whoever was paid to carry out the initial risk assessment for the problems that were glaringly obvious at the time (residents, evacuation procedures, infrastructure around the ground etc) should be liable. How much spent so far? 13 million?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 16, 2020, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2020, 10:56:25 PM
It's a joke and whoever was paid to carry out the initial risk assessment for the problems that were glaringly obvious at the time (residents, evacuation procedures, infrastructure around the ground etc) should be liable. How much spent so far? 13 million?

Yep exactly
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on January 16, 2020, 10:09:42 AM
The elephant in the room is a white one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2020, 10:29:21 AM
Get it built!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

What? There's probably the guts of 20 clubs within a five mile radius of the Casement park site.

There are lots of issues with the Stadium, some which you raise are very valid but that isn't one of them.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

What? There's probably the guts of 20 clubs within a five mile radius of the Casement park site.

There are lots of issues with the Stadium, some which you raise are very valid but that isn't one of them.

OK, what is Antrim's average home intercounty championship attendance for the past 20 years? And bear in mind that the current trend is for attendances to fall.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 16, 2020, 01:04:23 PM
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F76052152-37bb-11ea-ad7c-b6ce6c640a19.jpg?crop=2241%2C1261%2C0%2C117&resize=685)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 16, 2020, 01:04:23 PM
(https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2F76052152-37bb-11ea-ad7c-b6ce6c640a19.jpg?crop=2241%2C1261%2C0%2C117&resize=685)
They're still using the original artwork showing 38,000 at an Ulster Hurling Final, an event so compelling that it was last played in 2017.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

What? There's probably the guts of 20 clubs within a five mile radius of the Casement park site.

There are lots of issues with the Stadium, some which you raise are very valid but that isn't one of them.

OK, what is Antrim's average home intercounty championship attendance for the past 20 years? And bear in mind that the current trend is for attendances to fall.

That's a different question.

This is an Ulster GAA stadium, not Antrims so expect to see it being used for Ulster Semi-finals and finals if Ulster GAA have invested in it.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 01:35:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

What? There's probably the guts of 20 clubs within a five mile radius of the Casement park site.

There are lots of issues with the Stadium, some which you raise are very valid but that isn't one of them.

OK, what is Antrim's average home intercounty championship attendance for the past 20 years? And bear in mind that the current trend is for attendances to fall.

That's a different question.

This is an Ulster GAA stadium, not Antrims so expect to see it being used for Ulster Semi-finals and finals if Ulster GAA have invested in it.

Changing the goalposts already.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
What gets my goat about this is the 15 odd years of stagnation that Antrim GAA have suffered whilst losing kids to less better sports.
How has the unavailability of Casement led to youngsters migrating to other sports, especially those which are "less better"?

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
If there really is a safety issue re: evacuation then that should have been something that the authorities flagged at the outset. 
Er, the authorities couldn't flag safety issues until the GAA presented their plans. When the GAA did so, the authorities pointed out that the plans weren't safe, as is their statutory duty btw.
The GAA might have foreseen that this might be the case, since they pay architects, engineers and planning consultants for advice on same. And even if they didn't, they must have known there was a problem when they submitted revised plans - which also failed to prove acceptable.

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
Rugby and football/soccer were fast-tracked above and beyond.
"Fast-tracked" by whom? Ravenhill proceeded pretty much on schedule, primarily because the IRFU had its act together and the project was relatively modest. And Windsor actually took longer than envisaged, though that was partly due to work on the adjacent Council Leisure Centre undermining the Kop Stand. (It hadn't originally been intended to replace the Kop).
But no-one did either organisation any special favours.

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
The GAA would have a more than arguable case that the statutory advice was less than competent.
Says who?

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
Antrim GAA should lodge a claim.
Against whom?

The simple fact is, the site is not suitable for a modern 40k capacity sports stadium, due to restricted access/egress, meaning that spectator safety could not be guaranteed in the event of an emergency evacuation?

Or would you be happy to allow your children to attend a game in a venue which experts consider to be unsafe?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 16, 2020, 02:33:46 PM
The current site was not well chosen by whoever chose it.

This should have been in Mid Ulster(makes it on average 1-1.5 hours travel at worst case for Ulster Counties). This could be Toome if it had to be an Antrim
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 02:35:27 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 01:35:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 11:39:32 AM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

What? There's probably the guts of 20 clubs within a five mile radius of the Casement park site.

There are lots of issues with the Stadium, some which you raise are very valid but that isn't one of them.

OK, what is Antrim's average home intercounty championship attendance for the past 20 years? And bear in mind that the current trend is for attendances to fall.

That's a different question.

This is an Ulster GAA stadium, not Antrims so expect to see it being used for Ulster Semi-finals and finals if Ulster GAA have invested in it.

Changing the goalposts already.

Who?

You made a statement about Belfast being a non GAA city and I queried you on that referencing the number of clubs in the locality, then you mention Antrim GAA's attendance at games. I then point out this stadium isn't Antrims...

Lets not kid ourselves, this is a multi-functional stadium to be used for much more than GAA in the heart of the second largest city on the Island.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 02:35:27 PM

You made a statement about Belfast being a non GAA city and I queried you on that referencing the number of clubs in the locality, then you mention Antrim GAA's attendance at games. I then point out this stadium isn't Antrims...

Lets not kid ourselves, this is a multi-functional stadium to be used for much more than GAA in the heart of the second largest city on the Island.

Cork city has a lot of GAA clubs and its stadium is a white elephant. Before it was built, they were going to do the divil and all with it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 16, 2020, 03:00:40 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Er, the authorities couldn't flag safety issues until the GAA presented their plans. When the GAA did so, the authorities pointed out that the plans weren't safe, as is their statutory duty btw.
The GAA might have foreseen that this might be the case, since they pay architects, engineers and planning consultants for advice on same. And even if they didn't, they must have known there was a problem when they submitted revised plans - which also failed to prove acceptable.

In a civilised place, the public authorities would have worked with someone planning a civic amenity to ensure that there was clear visibility of potential good solutions,  rather than simply adopting "Ulster says no".  The attitude here is, we can't stop you, but we sure as hell aren't going to help you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 02:57:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 02:35:27 PM

You made a statement about Belfast being a non GAA city and I queried you on that referencing the number of clubs in the locality, then you mention Antrim GAA's attendance at games. I then point out this stadium isn't Antrims...

Lets not kid ourselves, this is a multi-functional stadium to be used for much more than GAA in the heart of the second largest city on the Island.

Cork city has a lot of GAA clubs and its stadium is a white elephant. Before it was built, they were going to do the divil and all with it.

So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
What gets my goat about this is the 15 odd years of stagnation that Antrim GAA have suffered whilst losing kids to less better sports.
How has the unavailability of Casement led to youngsters migrating to other sports, especially those which are "less better"?

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
If there really is a safety issue re: evacuation then that should have been something that the authorities flagged at the outset. 
Er, the authorities couldn't flag safety issues until the GAA presented their plans. When the GAA did so, the authorities pointed out that the plans weren't safe, as is their statutory duty btw.
The GAA might have foreseen that this might be the case, since they pay architects, engineers and planning consultants for advice on same. And even if they didn't, they must have known there was a problem when they submitted revised plans - which also failed to prove acceptable.

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
Rugby and football/soccer were fast-tracked above and beyond.
"Fast-tracked" by whom? Ravenhill proceeded pretty much on schedule, primarily because the IRFU had its act together and the project was relatively modest. And Windsor actually took longer than envisaged, though that was partly due to work on the adjacent Council Leisure Centre undermining the Kop Stand. (It hadn't originally been intended to replace the Kop).
But no-one did either organisation any special favours.

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
The GAA would have a more than arguable case that the statutory advice was less than competent.
Says who?

Quote from: Ronnie on January 15, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
Antrim GAA should lodge a claim.
Against whom?

The simple fact is, the site is not suitable for a modern 40k capacity sports stadium, due to restricted access/egress, meaning that spectator safety could not be guaranteed in the event of an emergency evacuation?

Or would you be happy to allow your children to attend a game in a venue which experts consider to be unsafe?

Have you read any of strategic reports prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years?   If not, please start.  This was an inter-departmental protect from the get go.   There was zero good faith shown, and - arguably - orchestrated by unionist parties, whilst this was being processed.   Hopefully public money wasn't provided in the expectation that it would be written about, sketched about, dreamt about, discussed, litigated, re-drawn, appealed, litigated again etc etc etc.  Ever heard of Jarndyce v Jarndyce?   Please tell me you're a WUM?   Residents have rights, some inalienable, but not that many here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 03:16:16 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

Cork is a shambles
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:30:57 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

What argument?

I'm just stating fact that this Casement Park stadium is intended to be used for a lot more than hurling and football matches and that the owners are Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA as a lot of people seem to think.

IMO what Antrim GAA required wasn't remotely considered.

Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up.

It will still get built, lord only knows when and what.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 16, 2020, 03:00:40 PM
In a civilised place, the public authorities would have worked with someone planning a civic amenity to ensure that there was clear visibility of potential good solutions,  rather than simply adopting "Ulster says no".  The attitude here is, we can't stop you, but we sure as hell aren't going to help you.
Eh?

It was the GAA who chose the site, Casement's location being the source of the problem.

Are you saying that the relevant Department should just have said "Yes", even when independent experts attested that it was entirely unsuitable/unsafe for a 40k stadium?

Meanwhile, you seem to have forgotten that the "public authorities" have allocated £62 million of public funds* towards this projecxt, the obstructionist, anti-GAA bastards.


* - That's £62m out of your and my taxes, while nurses have to go on strike and schools can't afford books etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:30:57 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

What argument?

I'm just stating fact that this Casement Park stadium is intended to be used for a lot more than hurling and football matches
So was PuC.
Quoteand that the owners are Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA
Makes no difference to its viability.
Quote
IMO what Antrim GAA required wasn't remotely considered.
Revealing.
Quote
Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input
Large modern stadiums are expensive to maintain.
Quote
coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up.

The whole thing was political pie in the sky.
Quote
It will still get built, lord only knows when and what.
Something modest should be cobbled together before Casement is lost forever.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 16, 2020, 03:47:49 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Just what we need - a big expensive GAA stadium in a non-GAA city in a corner of the country that might be used an odd time for an Ulster final but which otherwise will never ever see a big qualifer or Super 8 game. Those who have presided over this fiasco should be drummed out of the GAA.

Rarely agree with you but your absolutely bang on here.

The whole idea is every bit as much a disgrace as the implementation of it.

Unfortunately too many folks are that blinkered they can't get beyond "themmuns got money, so should we".


Replace the West stand.
Put a roof over the East terrace.
Maintain the two end terraces as is (uncovered).
Done.

At a fraction of the cost with no hassle and a stadium that is actually matched to its usage.


The GAA should then take the money saved and write a cheque to the RVH with it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 03:48:27 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Have you read any of strategic reports prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years?   If not, please start.  This was an inter-departmental protect from the get go.   There was zero good faith shown, and - arguably - orchestrated by unionist parties, whilst this was being processed.   Hopefully public money wasn't provided in the expectation that it would be written about, sketched about, dreamt about, discussed, litigated, re-drawn, appealed, litigated again etc etc etc.  Ever heard of Jarndyce v Jarndyce?   Please tell me you're a WUM?   Residents have rights, some inalienable, but not that many here.
"Zero good faith"?

What on earth are you talking about? It was originally envisaged that all three sports would share a new site at The Maze. The GAA was keen, the IFA signed up to it in writing and UR said, well, "We're not greatly bothered either way (we've got Ravenhill), but we won't stand in the way, either". (Paraphrasing)

Then when The Maze collapsed under the weight of its own financial inadequacies, HMG said to the three bodies, "Here's the money, use it to build/re-build the national or provincial stadium of your own choice". At £62m, the GAA's share was more than the IFA's and UR's combined (though they were also putting up £15m of their own, tbf).

The other two bodies came up with acceptable plans, the GAA didn't, the point being that Casement wasn't delayed for political or financial reasons, rather it was because the Gaa's plan wasn't deemed safe, as pointed out by local residents. Worse still, the revised follow-up plan wasn't compliant either. How many chances did they need?

All this could have been avoided, the money allocated and the project started long before Stormont collapsed, had the GAA submitted suitable plans, whether on the Casement site or elsewhere, as they (GAA) chose.

Or as 'Johnny Cool' so accurately put it:
"Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 04:01:17 PM
That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:30:57 PM
Quote from: five points on January 16, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 03:08:45 PM
So we've moved to Cork now.

Those goalposts are whizzing about at an awful rate of knots.

Cork destroys your argument.

What argument?

I'm just stating fact that this Casement Park stadium is intended to be used for a lot more than hurling and football matches
So was PuC.
Quoteand that the owners are Ulster GAA and not Antrim GAA
(1) ]Makes no difference to its viability.
Quote
IMO what Antrim GAA required wasn't remotely considered.
(2) Revealing.
Quote
Ulster GAA were offered a modern stadium for relatively little financial input
(3) Large modern stadiums are expensive to maintain.
Quote
coupled with Carál Ní Chuilín wanting to make a big statement of what the Shinners could do for West Belfast and between the two of them they'd managed to f**k it up.

The whole thing was political pie in the sky.
Quote
It will still get built, lord only knows when and what.
Something modest should be cobbled together before Casement is lost forever.

(1) Agreed so why were you interested in Antrim GAA's attendance figures?
(2) Not Really, the world and their dog knew this was an Ulster GAA project which the then incumbents in Antrim GAA rolled over and got their bellies tickled.
(3) Agreed, hence the need for it to be multifunctional. Moving it out to Dungannon, Armagh or the likes would hinder that process due to the lack of hotels etc etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 04:09:49 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 04:01:17 PM
That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?

About what?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: befair on January 16, 2020, 04:27:20 PM
Bricks and mortar are expensive, networks aren't; resources should be instead going into ulster football at a club level. See what investment has done for Dublin; the GAA should be trying to emulate this in Belfast and Derry
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 16, 2020, 04:46:45 PM
Quote from: befair on January 16, 2020, 04:27:20 PM
Bricks and mortar are expensive, networks aren't; resources should be instead going into ulster football at a club level. See what investment has done for Dublin; the GAA should be trying to emulate this in Belfast and Derry

No hurling then?

Heard of Gaelfast then?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2020, 05:21:56 PM
Why in the name of God was the Stadium closed and let go derelict?
You'd think they'd have kept it going till Planning was secured and work about to start.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on January 16, 2020, 05:33:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2020, 05:21:56 PM
Why in the name of God was the Stadium closed and let go derelict?

It was worse. They actually sold off fixtures such as terrace crowd barriers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 04:01:17 PM
That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?
You mean the Strategic Reports "prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years"

No, I've not read them. Nor can I see why they have any relevance to the issue under discussion, which is who is to blame for the present debacle at Casement.

It seems obvious that this was the fault of Ulster GAA for submitting plans for a stadium which was never going to gain Planning Permission (for safety reasons) on their chosen site. Then instead of revising those plans to a design which would receive PP, or finding another site, they merely submitted them again, only to receive the same answer.

But while we're demanding answers, care to respond to my question where I asked whether you would be happy to permit your children to watch a game or attend a concert at a venue which independent experts consider to be fundamentally unsafe to host large crowds?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 16, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 04:01:17 PM
That's not correct.   I disagree with your opinion and I also disagree with Johnny Cool.  Have you a question for me?   Answer mine.  How many Strategic Reports have you read?
You mean the Strategic Reports "prepared by Antrim GAA, Ulster Council or, for that matter, any other GAA unit over the last 30 years"

No, I've not read them. Nor can I see why they have any relevance to the issue under discussion, which is who is to blame for the present debacle at Casement.

It seems obvious that this was the fault of Ulster GAA for submitting plans for a stadium which was never going to gain Planning Permission (for safety reasons) on their chosen site. Then instead of revising those plans to a design which would receive PP, or finding another site, they merely submitted them again, only to receive the same answer.

But while we're demanding answers, care to respond to my question where I asked whether you would be happy to permit your children to watch a game or attend a concert at a venue which independent experts consider to be fundamentally unsafe to host large crowds?

I've stood in Casement Park with 25,000+, I've stood in Ravenhill with my kids which is A1 fantastic and I've sat in Windsor Pk which is also splendid.   The 'most unsafe' we ever felt was when a section of Windsor were singing 'up to our necks in fenian blood'.   We like all sports and support all.  So, no, I'm not happy when my sons feel unsafe.  Now go away the feck
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 16, 2020, 11:12:19 PM
Surely GAA money would be better spent on development staff on the ground and getting more people playing in the county and city?
No point having this white elephant in west belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 16, 2020, 11:12:19 PM
Surely GAA money would be better spent on development staff on the ground and getting more people playing in the county and city?
No point having this white elephant in west belfast

So have it somewhere else?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 11:38:49 PM
I agree that the games are more important than the buildings.  But  I was shocked recently when a mate told me that some major Belfast clubs were amalgamating at minor hurling level.   Genuinely shocked.   Some posters on here know the details.    For arguments sake:  if Croke Pk had been housed and a green field site developed mid-Leinster, early 90s how many children wouldn't have had the benefit of playing Gaelic football and Hurling?   This isn't pie in the sky economics.   This is sports science.  Ulster Rugby & IFA also have their work cut out.   Sports unites, doesn't divide unlike some posters on here.   Bit like GFA's Irish, British, Both & neither.   Any business owner - including the hotel lobby - in Belfast wants Casement built.   It's only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 17, 2020, 12:38:20 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 10:39:18 PM
I've stood in Casement Park with 25,000+, I've stood in Ravenhill with my kids which is A1 fantastic and I've sat in Windsor Pk which is also splendid.   The 'most unsafe' we ever felt was when a section of Windsor were singing 'up to our necks in fenian blood'.   We like all sports and support all.  So, no, I'm not happy when my sons feel unsafe.  Now go away the feck
So you're saying you know more about stadium safety than independent experts, then?

The problem with the Casement proposal was not that it couldn't be built to accommodate 40k spectators. Rather it was that if those 40k needed to be evacuated in an emergency, this could not be done safely or quickly enough, due to the constraints of the site.

Or was that not your experience from any of the emergency evacuations you were involved in at Ravenhill, Casement or Windsor?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 17, 2020, 12:57:30 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on January 16, 2020, 11:12:19 PM
Surely GAA money would be better spent on development staff on the ground and getting more people playing in the county and city?
No point having this white elephant in west belfast
Following the decision to scrap the multi-use Maze Stadium, the government redistributed the money amongst the three bodies on condition that it be used to build three single-use replacement stadia instead.

So the govt money could not legally have been spent as you suggest above. Meanwhile, one of the reasons why the GAA was allocated so big a share (£62m) was because they were also prepared to invest a further £15m of their own money (fair enough). It was their intention that £77m would build them a state of the art 40k capacity stadium on the Casement site. Of course, as we now know, that ambition was never going to be realised, because the physical constaints of the site meant it could never gain Planning Permission.

However, had they redirected their £15m to the sorts of purpose you suggest above, and instead accepted a lesser amount from HMG (say £40m? I'm guessing), they likely could have built a more modest stadium of 20-25k capacity (another guess) with that, thereby having their cake and eating it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 01:25:00 AM
Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 17, 2020, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 01:25:00 AM
Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 17, 2020, 08:49:20 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 16, 2020, 04:01:17 PMHow many Strategic Reports have you read?

I have yet to meet a page that refused ink...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 17, 2020, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 01:25:00 AM
Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

Bernabeu's not.   Worth a visit especially in a hostile environment, i.e. a riot.  We didn't feel safe.  The reason I used these 3 80,000 stadia is to show what can happen.  Casement's 35,000 won't be an evacuation problem.  Do you want me to go through the Premiership grounds now?  Only been to a few.  Yes I agree if it can't be safely built and used then bin it, tho that's not going to happen.   Only my opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 17, 2020, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 01:25:00 AM
Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

Bernabeu's not.   Worth a visit especially in a hostile environment, i.e. a riot.  We didn't feel safe.  The reason I used these 3 80,000 stadia is to show what can happen.  Casement's 35,000 won't be an evacuation problem.  Do you want me to go through the Premiership grounds now?  Only been to a few.  Yes I agree if it can't be safely built and used then bin it, tho that's not going to happen.   Only my opinion.

And, no, before someone asks... "I predict a Riot'.    I didn't go in expectation of seeing it a bit of agro.  " It is possible to predict a riot."   Discuss.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on January 17, 2020, 09:58:29 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 09:07:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 17, 2020, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: Ronnie on January 17, 2020, 01:25:00 AM
Evil Genius - are you a resident or what's your real problem?   I've been to some of city biggest stadiums in Europe, and, from a purely common sense perspective, there'd be no problem evacuating 35,000 Casement.   Have you been to the Bernabeu, Nou camp, Croke Pk e.g... and we're not even talking about 50,000 here.   You really don't make sense.   And, yes I'm no expert but you're dead against this and I respect that.  Move on

I've been to the Nou Camp, Wembley and also Twickenham and they all have large external spaces for crowds to evacuate to. Croke Park whilst surrounded by housing and the likes still have three or four main arterial routes to get people away from the stadium.

Casement on the other hand is entirely dependent on the Andersonstown Road and is hemmed in by the M1 motorway to its south. Evacuating people onto Owenvarragh and Moreland park will still require them to disperse onto the already crowded and potentially blocked Andersonstown Road if emergency services need access via that route. There was talk of developing a pathway onto the Kennedy Way roundabout but I don't think that was considered suffice.

I'm on for a Modern GAA stadium but it has to be safe as a basic prerequisite.

Bernabeu's not.   Worth a visit especially in a hostile environment, i.e. a riot.  We didn't feel safe.  The reason I used these 3 80,000 stadia is to show what can happen.  Casement's 35,000 won't be an evacuation problem.  Do you want me to go through the Premiership grounds now?  Only been to a few.  Yes I agree if it can't be safely built and used then bin it, tho that's not going to happen.   Only my opinion.

And, no, before someone asks... "I predict a Riot'.    I didn't go in expectation of seeing it a bit of agro.  " It is possible to predict a riot."   Discuss.

I see the Bernabeu was built in the 40's so dare I suggest that health and safety and evacuation planning was nowhere near as advanced as now and as you say you didn't feel safe.

It probably wouldn't be allowed to be built in this day and age.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on January 17, 2020, 11:27:20 AM
if the gaa are serious semi finals should be out of croke park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 18, 2020, 11:45:19 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 17, 2020, 11:27:20 AM
if the gaa are serious semi finals should be out of croke park.
There's no way Dublin would play any game after the first round out of Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on January 18, 2020, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 17, 2020, 11:27:20 AM
if the gaa are serious semi finals should be out of croke park.
Serious about what?

Geographically, Belfast doesn't lend itself well to hosting an All Ireland semi final.
It would also be an extremely rare occurrence that the attendance at an AI semi final would be low enough to be accommodated at Casement Park, at the proposed capacity. I imagine the GAA would take a lot of flak if they denied tens of thousands of fans the opportunity to attend a semi final involving their county by playing it in a smaller stadium in a northern corner of Ireland. Add to that the loss of revenue.

All in, I think it is pie in the sky stuff to suggest that AI semi finals could be played at Casement.

Geographically, Belfast doesn't lend itself well to hosting an Ulster semi final.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on January 18, 2020, 03:55:15 PM
I would say Gaa games will be second in line with concerts first in line
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on January 18, 2020, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 18, 2020, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 17, 2020, 11:27:20 AM
if the gaa are serious semi finals should be out of croke park.
Serious about what?

Geographically, Belfast doesn't lend itself well to hosting an All Ireland semi final.
It would also be an extremely rare occurrence that the attendance at an AI semi final would be low enough to be accommodated at Casement Park, at the proposed capacity. I imagine the GAA would take a lot of flak if they denied tens of thousands of fans the opportunity to attend a semi final involving their county by playing it in a smaller stadium in a northern corner of Ireland. Add to that the loss of revenue.

All in, I think it is pie in the sky stuff to suggest that AI semi finals could be played at Casement.

Geographically, Belfast doesn't lend itself well to hosting an Ulster semi final.
That's a bit of a stretch but depending on the pairing, it could be true.

Donegal Tyrone, Cavan Armagh
Fermanagh Monaghan, Donegal Down

Last 2 years semis. Hardly ideal for both teams involved.

At a push, semis involving Antrim Down Tyrone and Derry are only suited to Casement semis.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: smelmoth on January 18, 2020, 07:58:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
It doesn't have to be a mid-point to be an acceptable venue though. Just as long as it's not a ridiculous trek.
6 of the 9 counties are within an hours drive from Belfast. I don't think that's an unacceptable journey to a game especially to play or spectate in a state of the art stadium.

Which 6 counties?

Crossmaglen, Teemore, Trillick, Steelstown, Attical are they within an hour?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on January 18, 2020, 08:40:58 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
It doesn't have to be a mid-point to be an acceptable venue though. Just as long as it's not a ridiculous trek.
6 of the 9 counties are within an hours drive from Belfast. I don't think that's an unacceptable journey to a game especially to play or spectate in a state of the art stadium.

Is Donegal Cavan in Belfast not an unacceptable trek for both? Or Fermanagh Monaghan? It's also unreasonable for when West Tyrone play North Derry.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2020, 09:32:00 PM
Build it in the middle of Lough Neagh and it'll be central for most people.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 18, 2020, 09:58:19 PM
Casement is ideal for
Down v Derry
Down v Antrim

pretty good for
Armagh v Down
Armagh v Derry
Down v Tyrone

not much use for

most teams v Cavan
most teams  v Donegal.
Fermanagh v Monaghan

and another problem is that Antrim simply don't bring crowd as some  of the above do.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on January 21, 2020, 01:16:28 PM
https://youtu.be/XrooZwU2Hh8

Youd be surprised at the support when it starts to come together.  Antrim is the biggest sleeping giant in the association, not something we are proud of, and a lot of good work is now going on to turn the tide that allows us to fulfil our potential. If Ulster GAA is looking for expedential growth then Belfast is the place to do it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 21, 2020, 03:42:37 PM
Quote from: bannside on January 21, 2020, 01:16:28 PM
https://youtu.be/XrooZwU2Hh8

Youd be surprised at the support when it starts to come together.  Antrim is the biggest sleeping giant in the association, not something we are proud of, and a lot of good work is now going on to turn the tide that allows us to fulfil our potential. If Ulster GAA is looking for expedential growth then Belfast is the place to do it.

I'm totally on board with Antrim upping their game. But they'd wanna get their fingers out. We've been hearing about this sleeping giant this 40 years. They can barely get a team out wearing all the same jerseys.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on January 21, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 18, 2020, 07:58:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 05:17:16 PM
It doesn't have to be a mid-point to be an acceptable venue though. Just as long as it's not a ridiculous trek.
6 of the 9 counties are within an hours drive from Belfast. I don't think that's an unacceptable journey to a game especially to play or spectate in a state of the art stadium.

Which 6 counties?

Crossmaglen, Teemore, Trillick, Steelstown, Attical are they within an hour?
Cross certainly is...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 21, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 21, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
Cross certainly is...

You'd need a full hour and a minute or two more to drive to Belfast, unless you are a rulya altogether or one of these Creggan people that think they live in Cross.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 22, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over

Antrim are a no code county. Who can't get 26 players out in the same f**king jerseys.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on January 22, 2020, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 18, 2020, 08:37:08 PM
Antrim, Armagh, Down, Derry, Tyrone and Monaghan.
Maybe stretching it with Monaghan but not by much!!

I don't know why you are mentioning all of those places.
For what it's worth, Cross and Attical are about an hour. Teemore isn't in a county I mentioned.

The fact is, Belfast isn't a very long trip from any of the above counties and I don't believe it is unacceptable to ask teams and fans from those counties to travel that distance for an Ulster semi final.

I think it would be fair to say that you would struggle to legally drive from any part of Co Monaghan to Casement in a hour and 99% of the county is definitely not within an hour of Casement.

Similarly South Armagh or West Tyrone would be a struggle.

There are not great alternatives to Casement but just think we should confine ourselves to the truth when making the case for or against Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over

Antrim are a no code county. Who can't get 26 players out in the same f**king jerseys.

No code county? Very good,  continually hammering Tyrone in hurling since year dot. Tyrone has 15 Ulster titles at football and a no code county has 9, we've more than Derry and 9 more than Fermanagh. But seeing as you live in the present they don't count.

As for not getting out the jerseys,  that was the kit mans fault, he made a mistake (bit like Tyrone teams entering the Ulster club championship)  but sure, carry on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 23, 2020, 10:14:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over

Antrim are a no code county. Who can't get 26 players out in the same f**king jerseys.

No code county? Very good,  continually hammering Tyrone in hurling since year dot. Tyrone has 15 Ulster titles at football and a no code county has 9, we've more than Derry and 9 more than Fermanagh. But seeing as you live in the present they don't count.

As for not getting out the jerseys,  that was the kit mans fault, he made a mistake (bit like Tyrone teams entering the Ulster club championship)  but sure, carry on

There are clubs in Tyrone with more All Stars than Antrim has a county. A County with a population of over 600k.
It's almost 70 years since they won a USFC. But they're a sleeping giant with massive attendances!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on January 23, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
An awful lot of that 600k would not be inclined towards things GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on January 23, 2020, 11:00:21 AM
Yes theres no doubt Antrim Gaa has been punching far below its weight for far too long. No one here disputing that. But theres a new board in place since Saffron Vision instigated a thorough root and branch upheaval that has resulted within a few short years in many very positive things that bode well for our future. We have Gaelfast, a programme that allows Antrim Gaa to tackle head on its biggest obstacle particularly in the city.....soccer. Many schools are participating that had zero interest in Gaa, teachers are being put through coaching courses and while it will take time for all this to manifest itself at senior level, at least that process has begun. Saffron Business Forum is thriving, and more recently Club Aontroma have been rejuvenated. The business community are buying in....something instigated by Declan O Neill from St Endas Omagh and his " Towards The Millenium" programme for Tyrone Gaa back in the early nineties. You see how that turned out, and spawned a lot of copycat versions in other counties. I should remind you Trailer that Tyrone were no world beaters back then, but a bit of organisation and structure got your show on the road and that is exactly what we are doing in Antrim right now.

I recall being part of a county squad that drew with Tyrone in a league playoff in Coalisland back in late eighties, and a draw got us promotion at Tyrones expense (before Declan O Neill got his project off the ground) so theres a lot of people here go back that far and know where we stand as a proud dual county that's now moving again in the right direction.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2020, 11:10:18 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 23, 2020, 10:14:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over

Antrim are a no code county. Who can't get 26 players out in the same f**king jerseys.

No code county? Very good,  continually hammering Tyrone in hurling since year dot. Tyrone has 15 Ulster titles at football and a no code county has 9, we've more than Derry and 9 more than Fermanagh. But seeing as you live in the present they don't count.

As for not getting out the jerseys,  that was the kit mans fault, he made a mistake (bit like Tyrone teams entering the Ulster club championship)  but sure, carry on

There are clubs in Tyrone with more All Stars than Antrim has a county. A County with a population of over 600k.
It's almost 70 years since they won a USFC. But they're a sleeping giant with massive attendances!

600k? Hmmmm is that representative of the GAA community?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 23, 2020, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: bannside on January 23, 2020, 11:00:21 AM
Yes theres no doubt Antrim Gaa has been punching far below its weight for far too long. No one here disputing that. But theres a new board in place since Saffron Vision instigated a thorough root and branch upheaval that has resulted within a few short years in many very positive things that bode well for our future. We have Gaelfast, a programme that allows Antrim Gaa to tackle head on its biggest obstacle particularly in the city.....soccer. Many schools are participating that had zero interest in Gaa, teachers are being put through coaching courses and while it will take time for all this to manifest itself at senior level, at least that process has begun. Saffron Business Forum is thriving, and more recently Club Aontroma have been rejuvenated. The business community are buying in....something instigated by Declan O Neill from St Endas Omagh and his " Towards The Millenium" programme for Tyrone Gaa back in the early nineties. You see how that turned out, and spawned a lot of copycat versions in other counties. I should remind you Trailer that Tyrone were no world beaters back then, but a bit of organisation and structure got your show on the road and that is exactly what we are doing in Antrim right now.

I recall being part of a county squad that drew with Tyrone in a league playoff in Coalisland back in late eighties, and a draw got us promotion at Tyrones expense (before Declan O Neill got his project off the ground) so theres a lot of people here go back that far and know where we stand as a proud dual county that's now moving again in the right direction.

I wish Antrim well, I really do, but complaining about the size of Stadiums when they brought about 500 fans to an USFC game V Tyrone last year just fucks me off.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2020, 11:44:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 23, 2020, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: bannside on January 23, 2020, 11:00:21 AM
Yes theres no doubt Antrim Gaa has been punching far below its weight for far too long. No one here disputing that. But theres a new board in place since Saffron Vision instigated a thorough root and branch upheaval that has resulted within a few short years in many very positive things that bode well for our future. We have Gaelfast, a programme that allows Antrim Gaa to tackle head on its biggest obstacle particularly in the city.....soccer. Many schools are participating that had zero interest in Gaa, teachers are being put through coaching courses and while it will take time for all this to manifest itself at senior level, at least that process has begun. Saffron Business Forum is thriving, and more recently Club Aontroma have been rejuvenated. The business community are buying in....something instigated by Declan O Neill from St Endas Omagh and his " Towards The Millenium" programme for Tyrone Gaa back in the early nineties. You see how that turned out, and spawned a lot of copycat versions in other counties. I should remind you Trailer that Tyrone were no world beaters back then, but a bit of organisation and structure got your show on the road and that is exactly what we are doing in Antrim right now.

I recall being part of a county squad that drew with Tyrone in a league playoff in Coalisland back in late eighties, and a draw got us promotion at Tyrones expense (before Declan O Neill got his project off the ground) so theres a lot of people here go back that far and know where we stand as a proud dual county that's now moving again in the right direction.

I wish Antrim well, I really do, but complaining about the size of Stadiums when they brought about 500 fans to an USFC game V Tyrone last year just fucks me off.

Success brings supporters that's simple, even you can understand that.. The Ulster final with Tyrone in Clones there was an even split in the support. Before Harte and when they were winning the odd Ulster they didn't have big numbers either. Once you get the bandwagon going its hard to stop..

What annoys me most is seeing lots of people in and around Belfast or Antrim wearing Antrim tops and so on, I'd have a very good handle of players supporters and the like, I doubt very much they will have ever been to an actual game
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on January 23, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over

Antrim are a no code county. Who can't get 26 players out in the same f**king jerseys.

I don't see too many Tyrone teams playing native Irish games with the exception of Eoghan Ruadh - Dungannon, Éire Óg - Carrickmore, NCC - Coalisland and St Enda's - Omagh
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 23, 2020, 04:59:09 PM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on January 23, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 04:17:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 22, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
In fairness Antrim games could be held in a phone box for all that turns up.

Stop being a dick

Truth hurts.

Truth is that Tyrone are a single code county, who pay lip service to hurling and didn't start playing football till Mickey Harte took over

Antrim are a no code county. Who can't get 26 players out in the same f**king jerseys.

I don't see too many Tyrone teams playing native Irish games with the exception of Eoghan Ruadh - Dungannon, Éire Óg - Carrickmore, NCC - Coalisland and St Enda's - Omagh

And Fintona, And Tullyhogue and Duiche Neil and Cuchulann na Gleannana.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2020, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 22, 2020, 07:58:45 PM
There are of course outliers. There are some parts of Antrim that would be a struggle to make Casement from in an hour.
The vast majority of Armagh is within the hour.
As I said, Monaghan is a bit of a stretch but not by a great deal. A huge part of Tyrone can make Casement in an hour.

Anyway, this was based on the assertion that "Geographically, Casement doesn't lend itself well to hosting Ulster semi finals".
It often does.

Only an hour from Casement.

(https://i.ibb.co/PtWkznL/casement-isochrone.png) (https://ibb.co/pnKqr87)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on January 24, 2020, 08:11:17 AM
It must be terrible for all these people who haven't been to Croke park because it takes over an hour to get there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on January 24, 2020, 04:20:15 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 24, 2020, 08:11:17 AM
It must be terrible for all these people who haven't been to Croke park because it takes over an hour to get there.
Most of Dublin
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 08, 2020, 10:43:03 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/will-nobody-shout-stop-as-30m-set-to-be-wasted-on-casements-white-elephant-38937457.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 08, 2020, 03:14:22 PM
Where does he suggest Ulster GAA play games that require a 34k seater stadium? Clones? An absolute shithole.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 12, 2020, 04:31:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/51472441

Croke Park are starting to say "enough".

Hopefully rescoped down to a 20k stadium (with one covered seated area and one covered standing area and both ends uncovered)

Big enough and suited for the job.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 12, 2020, 04:34:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 08, 2020, 03:14:22 PM
Where does he suggest Ulster GAA play games that require a 34k seater stadium? Clones? An absolute shithole.

Clones is fine.

If its only needed for big games, then ye travel and accept the roads are a bit dung rather than needlessly pissing away tens of millions on a nice to have for 2 or 3 times (at most) a year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 12, 2020, 04:31:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/51472441

Croke Park are starting to say "enough".

Hopefully rescoped down to a 20k stadium (with one covered seated area and one covered standing area and both ends uncovered)

Big enough and suited for the job.

That is OK, but then they would have to modernise Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 12, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
That is OK, but then they would have to modernise Clones.

Why?

Do ye need a spongy seat or something?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: An Watcher on February 12, 2020, 05:10:00 PM
Give me Clones before an old or new casement any day if the week. Much better venue all round
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: PMG1 on February 12, 2020, 10:07:55 PM
Clones is a great venue, but you have to remember this money is being handed to the GAA to build a stadium in the north, they can't use it for Clones. Never look a gift horse in the mouth, the money has been set aside and needs to be used so we have to do something in the wee 6 with it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
An Watcher you can go to Clones all you like, but I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted. Please keep up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 10:44:07 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
An Watcher you can go to Clones all you like, but I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted. Please keep up.

All he said was that Clones was a better venue. This simply reflects that the atmosphere is better, if only because the local people are friendly. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 10:44:07 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
An Watcher you can go to Clones all you like, but I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted. Please keep up.

All he said was that Clones was a better venue. This simply reflects that the atmosphere is better, if only because the local people are friendly.

So the local people around casement are unfriendly? Atmosphere can be generated but you can't say the new stadium won't be lacking atmosphere, has Croke atmosphere since it was rebuilt?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 12, 2020, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 10:44:07 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
An Watcher you can go to Clones all you like, but I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted. Please keep up.

All he said was that Clones was a better venue. This simply reflects that the atmosphere is better, if only because the local people are friendly.

So the local people around casement are unfriendly? Atmosphere can be generated but you can't say the new stadium won't be lacking atmosphere, has Croke atmosphere since it was rebuilt?

They're right people to TBH, but would your car be safer in Clones or West Belfast...(only messin)

FFS lads just get the fecking thing built, Belfast needs it. Antrim needs it, the money is there for it...whats the issue
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on February 13, 2020, 06:59:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 10:44:07 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
An Watcher you can go to Clones all you like, but I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted. Please keep up.

All he said was that Clones was a better venue. This simply reflects that the atmosphere is better, if only because the local people are friendly.

So the local people around casement are unfriendly? Atmosphere can be generated but you can't say the new stadium won't be lacking atmosphere, has Croke atmosphere since it was rebuilt?

The problem in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 13, 2020, 08:16:14 AM
Yea??? In a nutshell it is then because Trileacman says so! The Dublin supporters had that reputation too, used to get a lot of fighting on the Hill before Croke Park was refurbished!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 13, 2020, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 12, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
That is OK, but then they would have to modernise Clones.

Why?

Do ye need a spongy seat or something?

The dangerous cage terrace on the Hill needs shutting.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 13, 2020, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: five points on February 13, 2020, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 12, 2020, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
That is OK, but then they would have to modernise Clones.

Why?

Do ye need a spongy seat or something?

The dangerous cage terrace on the Hill needs shutting.

Why?

How many serious injuries have been caused by it over the years?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 13, 2020, 04:11:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 13, 2020, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: five points on February 13, 2020, 09:48:49 AM

The dangerous cage terrace on the Hill needs shutting.

Why?
Because it is a cage with no possibility of exit from the front in the event of a crush or other emergency.
Quote
How many serious injuries have been caused by it over the years?
Probably none, but that could have been said once for Hillsborough and Heysel among others.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 13, 2020, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: five points on February 13, 2020, 04:11:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 13, 2020, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: five points on February 13, 2020, 09:48:49 AM

The dangerous cage terrace on the Hill needs shutting.

Why?
Because it is a cage with no possibility of exit from the front in the event of a crush or other emergency.
Quote
How many serious injuries have been caused by it over the years?
Probably none, but that could have been said once for Hillsborough and Heysel among others.

You do realise that the presence of barriers at many points are there to prevent crushing?

Besides, how much would it cost them to remove parts of the wall and install a few crush gates? <€100k?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 13, 2020, 10:41:22 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
... I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted.
Not my recollection.

I'm pretty sure that when the shared stadium at The Maze was binned, the government instead redirected the money to the three Associations specifically to build/re-build three Provincial stadia. That is, the Associations were not to use it for other purposes, such as doling it out between a number of smaller stadia or clubs etc.

It was the GAA who therefore decided to rebuild Casement, with its proponents emphasising that it would also regenerate W.Belfast etc i.e. a benefit, not the justification. But had the GAA not wanted to build at Casement, they could have chosen any other location within NI.

Also, I also believe that the reason the GAA got so much more than the other two was because they were in a position to contribute an additional £15m of their own (the IFA couldn't and the IRFU didn't want to).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2020, 10:51:42 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 13, 2020, 10:41:22 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 12, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
... I think you'll find the money from Ni govt was for a stadium that would help the regeneration of West Belfast, a vastly underdeveloped wasteland...that's why they were promised a substantially larger revenue pot than Ravenhill or Windsor Pk. There was never talk of giving the money to Ulster Council to build it wherever they wanted.
Not my recollection.

I'm pretty sure that when the shared stadium at The Maze was binned, the government instead redirected the money to the three Associations specifically to build/re-build three Provincial stadia. That is, the Associations were not to use it for other purposes, such as doling it out between a number of smaller stadia or clubs etc.

It was the GAA who therefore decided to rebuild Casement, with its proponents emphasising that it would also regenerate W.Belfast etc i.e. a benefit, not the justification. But had the GAA not wanted to build at Casement, they could have chosen any other location within NI.

Also, I also believe that the reason the GAA got so much more than the other two was because they were in a position to contribute an additional £15m of their own (the IFA couldn't and the IRFU didn't want to).

That's true to a point, but once the Maze was dropped then Casement became the forerunner as a site, no other site was on the cards. Whether it was regeneration of the West or having a proper GAA stadium in northern Ireland's capital in Belfast, I'm not sure. One thing is for sure, it's going to Casement now, the size/capacity needs looked at though and no one on here has argued that point
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 14, 2020, 10:54:03 AM
Excuse my ignorance but what, precisely, is the delay on Casement getting built? I know there were planning problems and objections from residents but how long does it take to resolve and/or revise plans?? This delay is nothing short of an utter disgrace and shocking!

Stalemate usually comes from incompetence. Is that the problem here?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: screenexile on February 14, 2020, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: ck on February 14, 2020, 10:54:03 AM
Excuse my ignorance but what, precisely, is the delay on Casement getting built? I know there were planning problems and objections from residents but how long does it take to resolve and/or revise plans?? This delay is nothing short of an utter disgrace and shocking!

Stalemate usually comes from incompetence. Is that the problem here?

No Stormont was a big part of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 11:22:04 AM
If Casement was built for a 20k capacity, would it not realistically get more games than a 32k stadium?

I mean, why the need to bring loads of schools, McKenna Cup, Ulster Club, NHL, NFL matches etc to a 32k ground when maybe only a few thousand are in attendance?

Armagh gets loads of matches, and crowds fit in no bother: McRory, McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Club finals, and all Tyrone home games of course. Bar the odd championship match, where more capacity might be needed, it's adequate size.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on February 14, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 11:22:04 AM
If Casement was built for a 20k capacity, would it not realistically get more games than a 32k stadium?

I mean, why the need to bring loads of schools, McKenna Cup, Ulster Club, NHL, NFL matches etc to a 32k ground when maybe only a few thousand are in attendance?

Armagh gets loads of matches, and crowds fit in no bother: McRory, McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Club finals, and all Tyrone home games of course. Bar the odd championship match, where more capacity might be needed, it's adequate size.

What would be the point in building that then?
Building what you already have down the road, surely the point is that it would be able to host the biggest games going as well as other money generating events.

I wouldn't worry about getting loads of matches into it as i'd say it will be closed up most of the time anyway and limited access granted to all the Antrim clubs who used to own it.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on February 14, 2020, 11:45:20 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.

So pretty much an identikit of what exists already in most counties?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 14, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 11:22:04 AM
If Casement was built for a 20k capacity, would it not realistically get more games than a 32k stadium?

I mean, why the need to bring loads of schools, McKenna Cup, Ulster Club, NHL, NFL matches etc to a 32k ground when maybe only a few thousand are in attendance?

Armagh gets loads of matches, and crowds fit in no bother: McRory, McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Club finals, and all Tyrone home games of course. Bar the odd championship match, where more capacity might be needed, it's adequate size.

What would be the point in building that then?
Building what you already have down the road, surely the point is that it would be able to host the biggest games going as well as other money generating events.

I wouldn't worry about getting loads of matches into it as i'd say it will be closed up most of the time anyway and limited access granted to all the Antrim clubs who used to own it.

Wouldn't Clones still hold more? (36,000). Plus Clones, while not ideal transport links into it, but it's still more accessible for most counties than Belfast is.

By the way, these other events you refer to? What exactly will they be? In terms of concert venues, sure Belfast has the Odyssey, Waterfront, and other events at Boucher fields and Kings Hall. Would Casemrnt really be able to attract some events away from those places?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.

Windsor Park hold 18k, has covered seating all around it. Looks tidy. Something similar is achievable at Casemrnt.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.

So Antrim get a free county ground paid for by the taxpayer and the rest of the counties still have to fund a stadium for Ulster finals elsewhere?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 14, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
The whole idea is mad. People are literally searching for justifications to spend tens of millions of GAA  and taxpayer money on an unspecified project that the GAA clearly neither wants nor needs.

The GAA should cut their losses, offer Antrim £2/£3m to build a new stand, restore the terraces, fix the pitch and clean up the place. Let Antrim beg, borrow or steal whatever they can get from the authorities and their own fundraising for whatever else they want to spend.

Allocate some money to Clones to fix the Hill.

Then move on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 14, 2020, 12:18:42 PM
Quote from: five points on February 14, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
The whole idea is mad. People are literally searching for justifications to spend tens of millions of GAA  and taxpayer money on an unspecified project that the GAA clearly neither wants nor needs.

The GAA should cut their losses, offer Antrim £2/£3m to build a new stand, restore the terraces, fix the pitch and clean up the place. Let Antrim beg, borrow or steal whatever they can get from the authorities and their own fundraising for whatever else they want to spend.

Allocate some money to Clones to fix the Hill.

Then move on.

Absolutely correct (in my opinion).

[and stick a roof over the East terrace]

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 12:24:36 PM
Yup, cut their losses. Build a smaller stadium.

Stop wasting time and millions of pounds. Get it feckin' built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maroon Manc on February 14, 2020, 12:36:44 PM
How much are the GAA & the Britsh taxpayer going to contribute towards the project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 14, 2020, 12:38:02 PM
Its not just cut the GAA losses, where do the fools that advocate this spending think the govt money is coming from?

A fukking magic money tree in Westminster?

Boris Johnson is not going to hand it over in one hand without taking a lot of it back in the other hand.

Folk need to fukking get real. Would you rather the money wasted on a white elephant at Casement, or put into the RVH?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 14, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 14, 2020, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: ck on February 14, 2020, 10:54:03 AM
Excuse my ignorance but what, precisely, is the delay on Casement getting built? I know there were planning problems and objections from residents but how long does it take to resolve and/or revise plans?? This delay is nothing short of an utter disgrace and shocking!

Stalemate usually comes from incompetence. Is that the problem here?

No Stormont was a big part of it.
Who exactly at Stormont, and how?

Fact is, the GAA alighted on a plan for a 40k seater super stadium, with corporate facilities and the ability to host concerts etc, without considering the need for Planning Permission.

And their design was never going to get PP, since Safety concerns (esp evacuation in an emergency) over the site were patently inadequate. I'd have thought it pretty basic not to have taken into consideration such an essential aspect before drawing up firm plans and spending millions.

Nor did they help themselves by failing hopelessly to anticipate the feelings of many local residents who, far from seeing "regeneration" for their area, saw only "blight" instead

Worse still, when PP was refused specifically on those grounds, instead of accepting it and coming back with a revised plan which could meet H&S concerns, they came back with a Casement Mk.II which still didn't pass.

Now you might understand this if there were an overwhelming need for an all-singing, all-dancing 40k stadium in Belfast, but as many people on here have pointed out, this is highly questionable. And maybe in "another jurisdiction", it might have been more feasible for the GAA to override Planning considerations? (I'm being mischievous here, btw  ;))

Meanwhile if there were no other suitable location for same in NI, why not go for a more modest proposal which would cost a lot less overall, meaning the GAA could be able to build it solely with Government money and re-direct their own £15m contribution elsewhere?

Finally, if there was political interference from Stormont, the chief source of this was actually SF, who hoped to gain political credit from being associated with this, but clearly never appreciated that it mightn't be much of a vote-winner, if at all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 14, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on February 14, 2020, 12:36:44 PM
How much are the GAA & the Britsh taxpayer going to contribute towards the project?
The original agreement was that if the GAA would come up with £15m, then the government would stretch to £62m.

And £77m was considered adequate to build the 40k stadium which the GAA wanted (but was unable to get Planning Permission for).

Since then, when you factor in additional legal and other professional costs already incurred/spent (and more still to come?), plus general construction industry inflation, the cost for the GAA's latest proposal is coming in somewhere north of £100m.

It seems that the GAA are hoping that the shortfall, which stems basically from their own incompetence, will be made up by Stormont. But the government's original contribution was ring-fenced from the Maze money (only) and there should be no provision to increase it. (The IRFU and IFA would also have cause to complain).

Though I say "should", since I expect the new Sports Minister may try to, er, finesse the budget in this direction. She'll need a strong wind behind her, I'd say.

"Hurricane Deirdre"?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 14, 2020, 01:11:21 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 14, 2020, 12:40:28 PM
Meanwhile if there were no other suitable location for same in NI, why not go for a more modest proposal which would cost a lot less overall, meaning the GAA could be able to build it solely with Government money and re-direct their own £15m contribution elsewhere?

Indeed.

£15m from the govt (approx equivalent of Ravenhill) would be comfortably enough to renovate Casement into a 20K, single stand, one cover terrace stadium; suitable to Antrim's needs and fit to act as a neutral venue for all but Ulster finals and big Ulster semi-finals.

Then that £15m of the GAA's could be put into paying coaches within Antrim (in a similar manner as the money put into Dublin).

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 14, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
I'm partial to a 30k comfortable modern seated stadium with all the facilities in Belfast. If there's easy enough access from the motorway and parking is available. Such a stadium would get good usage.

I've lost the thread of the discussion, is there a nutshell summary of what's a realistic Casement project now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 14, 2020, 01:27:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
I'm partial to a 30k comfortable modern seated stadium with all the facilities in Belfast.

All seated?

If so, what about those that don't fancy paying the ticket price of a seat?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 14, 2020, 08:54:45 PM
Is there something wrong with some of your heads, like is it not clear and precise by now after all these years about this proposal what's happening and why. No matter what is discussed someone keeps posting "why can't it do this or that, why not build it here or there instead".

It's in Casement...no where else.
It's not 20,000 or 10,000 or we don't need it...it's 35,000 (after slight reduction)
The funding is for Casement only and can't be moved elsewhere
We don't need it or it'll never be full...Bullshit, Antrim need it, Ulster need it and West Belfast need it.
It's not going to have a few thousand seats and all that standing because someone wants a cheaper ticket


This proposal is more than just a GAA ground, it will have state of the art facilities. It will cater for the local community and will host many seminars and meetings which will generate income and give some jobs to a few locals and it will be something that we can show off to the rest of this twisted Country and have out Ulster final in it full to the rafters...

Rant over guys... :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 14, 2020, 09:31:14 PM
So,  Ulster Says Yes!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2020, 10:29:08 PM
Read something in paper few days ago, someone suggested a piece of wasteland north of the city would be ideal than for s big stadium rather than building Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: omaghjoe on February 15, 2020, 08:40:18 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 14, 2020, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 14, 2020, 08:54:45 PM
Is there something wrong with some of your heads, like is it not clear and precise by now after all these years about this proposal what's happening and why. No matter what is discussed someone keeps posting "why can't it do this or that, why not build it here or there instead".

It's in Casement...no where else.
It's not 20,000 or 10,000 or we don't need it...it's 35,000 (after slight reduction)
The funding is for Casement only and can't be moved elsewhere
We don't need it or it'll never be full...Bullshit, Antrim need it, Ulster need it and West Belfast need it.
It's not going to have a few thousand seats and all that standing because someone wants a cheaper ticket


This proposal is more than just a GAA ground, it will have state of the art facilities. It will cater for the local community and will host many seminars and meetings which will generate income and give some jobs to a few locals and it will be something that we can show off to the rest of this twisted Country and have out Ulster final in it full to the rafters...

Rant over guys... :)
Except much of that isn't true.
There is no reason why it can't be anywhere else in the north. That is the GAA's choice.
There is no reason why the capacity can't be reduced. That is the GAA's choice.
Antrim doesn't need "it". Antrim needs a ground capable of holding its games. At the moment, a ground catering for a couple of thousand would more than suffice.
Ulster doesn't particularly need it either. Had the gov not come up with the dough, it wouldn't ever have been a thought.
West Belfast doesn't need it at all, as far as I can see.

Anyone else feel suspicious of Monaghan contributions on this issue no matter if they may agree with them at least in part?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2020, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
I'm partial to a 30k comfortable modern seated stadium with all the facilities in Belfast. If there's easy enough access from the motorway and parking is available. Such a stadium would get good usage.

I've lost the thread of the discussion, is there a nutshell summary of what's a realistic Casement project now?
I think we have reduced the scope of the project from a state of the art 35k all-seater with bars, restaurants and conference rooms, to getting a Massey in with a mower, baler and weed wiper, a bit of joinery work and a few cans of paint. Let's play ball!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 15, 2020, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 15, 2020, 08:40:18 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 14, 2020, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 14, 2020, 08:54:45 PM
Is there something wrong with some of your heads, like is it not clear and precise by now after all these years about this proposal what's happening and why. No matter what is discussed someone keeps posting "why can't it do this or that, why not build it here or there instead".

It's in Casement...no where else.
It's not 20,000 or 10,000 or we don't need it...it's 35,000 (after slight reduction)
The funding is for Casement only and can't be moved elsewhere
We don't need it or it'll never be full...Bullshit, Antrim need it, Ulster need it and West Belfast need it.
It's not going to have a few thousand seats and all that standing because someone wants a cheaper ticket


This proposal is more than just a GAA ground, it will have state of the art facilities. It will cater for the local community and will host many seminars and meetings which will generate income and give some jobs to a few locals and it will be something that we can show off to the rest of this twisted Country and have out Ulster final in it full to the rafters...

Rant over guys... :)
Except much of that isn't true.
There is no reason why it can't be anywhere else in the north. That is the GAA's choice.
There is no reason why the capacity can't be reduced. That is the GAA's choice.
Antrim doesn't need "it". Antrim needs a ground capable of holding its games. At the moment, a ground catering for a couple of thousand would more than suffice.
Ulster doesn't particularly need it either. Had the gov not come up with the dough, it wouldn't ever have been a thought.
West Belfast doesn't need it at all, as far as I can see.

Anyone else feel suspicious of Monaghan contributions on this issue no matter if they may agree with them at least in part?
Paranoia is a normal state of mental being for a Tyronie.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 15, 2020, 11:17:45 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2020, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
I'm partial to a 30k comfortable modern seated stadium with all the facilities in Belfast. If there's easy enough access from the motorway and parking is available. Such a stadium would get good usage.

I've lost the thread of the discussion, is there a nutshell summary of what's a realistic Casement project now?
I think we have reduced the scope of the project from a state of the art 35k all-seater with bars, restaurants and conference rooms, to getting a Massey in with a mower, baler and weed wiper, a bit of joinery work and a few cans of paint. Let's play ball!
Casement has been selected as the location among all locations, what's the point now of complaining that it should or could be anywhere else but Casement? Is that option realistic?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2020, 04:27:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2020, 11:17:45 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 15, 2020, 09:46:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2020, 01:15:32 PM
I'm partial to a 30k comfortable modern seated stadium with all the facilities in Belfast. If there's easy enough access from the motorway and parking is available. Such a stadium would get good usage.

I've lost the thread of the discussion, is there a nutshell summary of what's a realistic Casement project now?
I think we have reduced the scope of the project from a state of the art 35k all-seater with bars, restaurants and conference rooms, to getting a Massey in with a mower, baler and weed wiper, a bit of joinery work and a few cans of paint. Let's play ball!
Casement has been selected as the location among all locations, what's the point now of complaining that it should or could be anywhere else but Casement? Is that option realistic?
Lots of people have no issue with the Casement redevelopment. What they do have an issue is how it was being implemented. It suits the narrative of many people to say the people of West Belfast don't want Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 15, 2020, 05:04:40 PM
Build it and they will come (i think)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 15, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
About six times a year...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Lets not lose sight of the fact that Clones and Monaghan has had USFC finals and other games for years and the place is terrible. Facilities are just awful. Monaghan has never invested and the town relies completely on alcohol on match days. As a family experience it is pretty terrible.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 18, 2020, 12:23:21 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 14, 2020, 08:54:45 PM
This proposal is more than just a GAA ground, it will have state of the art facilities. It will cater for the local community and will host many seminars and meetings which will generate income and give some jobs to a few locals and it will be something that we can show off to the rest of this twisted Country and have out Ulster final in it full to the rafters...

What a load of shite.

So it needs 35k seats (of which, less than 5k will be used on a regular basis) to be "state of the art"?

Or does it need 35k seats to cater for the local community? (who incidentally want it to be smaller)

Or does it need 35k seats for seminars? Hope the sound system is better than most grounds


Wise the f**king head. Its (yet) another white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 18, 2020, 12:25:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
About six times a year...

As many as 6?

I can count 3, maybe 4 at a push... then after that I'm at a loss.  [and that would require diverting all SF & Final games, regardless of who is in them, to a stadium of smaller capacity than Clones.]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 18, 2020, 12:40:42 PM
Well I would be hoping for antrim county finals and antrim home league matches in all codes but given antrim don't own the ground any more I don't know how that will work...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on February 18, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Lets not lose sight of the fact that Clones and Monaghan has had USFC finals and other games for years and the place is terrible. Facilities are just awful. Monaghan has never invested and the town relies completely on alcohol on match days. As a family experience it is pretty terrible.

clones is a dump by modern standards . most current county grounds of that age were built only to filled on those red hot summer days when little facilities are needed other than a few ice creams and have a little stand for league matches etc. Im glad monaghan are not doubling down on whatis n a terrible spot for a stadium .
It has severed its time and probably should be replaced with  10/12 seater stadium for monaghan's own use and a state of the art stadium in Belfast could be a huge earner between matches and corporate events look at croke park   almost half its income come from non playing activites
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 18, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on February 18, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Lets not lose sight of the fact that Clones and Monaghan has had USFC finals and other games for years and the place is terrible. Facilities are just awful. Monaghan has never invested and the town relies completely on alcohol on match days. As a family experience it is pretty terrible.

clones is a dump by modern standards . most current county grounds of that age were built only to filled on those red hot summer days when little facilities are needed other than a few ice creams and have a little stand for league matches etc. Im glad monaghan are not doubling down on whatis n a terrible spot for a stadium .
It has severed its time and probably should be replaced with  10/12 seater stadium for monaghan's own use and a state of the art stadium in Belfast could be a huge earner between matches and corporate events look at croke park   almost half its income come from non playing activites

Clones is a dump because it has got barely a lick of paint in over 25 years.

Monaghan don't own it and never owned it. I suspect if they did, it wouldn't be a dump.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2020, 03:25:47 PM
No VAT on tickets in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 18, 2020, 03:22:35 PM
Whether it's a dump/not a dump, it serves its purpose. It allows fans to watch their team on a handful of occasions each year. It's not required that often so I can understand why the GAA don't feel the need to pump money into it. For what it does, it doesn't need bells & whistles. Much the same as Casement but since the Brits are buying the bells and whistles, the GAA were happy to play ball.
A case of "what can we get" rather than "what do we need".

What utter shite. It's 2020. to be able to watch games in modern stadia that don't resemble something from Soviet Russia is an absolute minimum.
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 18, 2020, 03:53:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
What utter shite. It's 2020. to be able to watch games in modern stadia that don't resemble something from Soviet Russia is an absolute minimum.
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.

Casement now looks more like Chernobyl than anything else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 18, 2020, 03:57:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 18, 2020, 03:22:35 PM
Whether it's a dump/not a dump, it serves its purpose. It allows fans to watch their team on a handful of occasions each year. It's not required that often so I can understand why the GAA don't feel the need to pump money into it. For what it does, it doesn't need bells & whistles. Much the same as Casement but since the Brits are buying the bells and whistles, the GAA were happy to play ball.
A case of "what can we get" rather than "what do we need".

What utter shite. It's 2020. to be able to watch games in modern stadia that don't resemble something from Soviet Russia is an absolute minimum.
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Nonsense. Throwing money at fcuk all. There are many better ways of investing money in order to future proof our games.
"Whatever the cost..." f**king hell, it's attitudes like that that land organisations in the shit.

The GAA is in great health. If we only built Stadia because they were sold out every game we'd have pretty small Stadiums. The money is there, and GAA people in Ulster and especially Antrim deserve a modern fit for purpose stadium. There is no rational, logical or sensible argument against this project going ahead.
#buildcasement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 18, 2020, 04:15:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:13:51 PM

The GAA is in great health. If we only built Stadia because they were sold out every game we'd have pretty small Stadiums. The money is there, and GAA people in Ulster and especially Antrim deserve a modern fit for purpose stadium. There is no rational, logical or sensible argument against this project going ahead.
#buildcasement

They said all that about Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:21:35 PM
Quote from: five points on February 18, 2020, 04:15:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:13:51 PM

The GAA is in great health. If we only built Stadia because they were sold out every game we'd have pretty small Stadiums. The money is there, and GAA people in Ulster and especially Antrim deserve a modern fit for purpose stadium. There is no rational, logical or sensible argument against this project going ahead.
#buildcasement

They said all that about Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

I'm not expecting the project to be deliver on budget, and you know what it probably doesn't matter. If it costs £200m it's still cheap for what it does for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster. Certain projects need to have strict budgets , but not a badly needed sports stadium for the largest sporting organisation in NI.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 18, 2020, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

I'm not expecting the project to be deliver on budget, and you know what it probably doesn't matter. If it costs £200m it's still cheap for what it does for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster. Certain projects need to have strict budgets , but not a badly needed sports stadium for the largest sporting organisation in NI.

What would the liquidation of the Ulster Council do for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: five points on February 18, 2020, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

I'm not expecting the project to be deliver on budget, and you know what it probably doesn't matter. If it costs £200m it's still cheap for what it does for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster. Certain projects need to have strict budgets , but not a badly needed sports stadium for the largest sporting organisation in NI.

What would the liquidation of the Ulster Council do for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster?

At certain times I'd imagine it would help!
GAA has plenty of money. Stormont and UK contributing. There's no rational financial argument against the build. The money is there and secured.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on February 18, 2020, 04:32:35 PM
The Provincial Championship won't be a big thing anymore in a few years. The Championship structure will likely be changed, and maybe the Provincial championship will be played earlier in the year, or not at all.  It might be popular in Ulster but in Leinster and Munster, not so much. Dublin have killed the appeal in Leinster.

The League is best format. They'll probaly play a League style championship in a few years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 18, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Qn: Were the £62m not available from the Government, would anyone in the GAA be saying: "We need a 40k seater, £77m stadium in Belfast. Now how do we go about building it?"

I think the only answer can be "No".

Of course, the £62m is available, but now that the cost has spiralled beyond £100m (with more to come?), is the GAA comfortable with adding, say, £40m to the government's £62m? (I really can't see Stormont either wanting to go beyond £62m, or being allowed to under the rules).

So why not just save your own £15m, take £47m from the government (or whatever figure they're prepared to allocate on a 100% funded basis), and see what you get for that? If nothing else, such a plan would likely allay residents' concerns into the bargain.

Of course the new stadium might not be able to host very large GAA crowds, but how many of those would Casement realistically get each season. Or is (VAT-free) Clones really unfit to accommodate such games?

And as for huge concerts and conferences etc, maybe a stripped-down plan might not be able to host these but realistically, how much real demand is there for these?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 19, 2020, 12:43:58 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.

Who would give up home advantage though?
And if teams did, would 15,000 be enough to hold a double header?
Say Tyrone Dublin was one game, there's not much seats left for t'other two counties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 01:51:03 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 18, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Qn: Were the £62m not available from the Government, would anyone in the GAA be saying: "We need a 40k seater, £77m stadium in Belfast. Now how do we go about building it?"

I think the only answer can be "No".

Of course, the £62m is available, but now that the cost has spiralled beyond £100m (with more to come?), is the GAA comfortable with adding, say, £40m to the government's £62m? (I really can't see Stormont either wanting to go beyond £62m, or being allowed to under the rules).

So why not just save your own £15m, take £47m from the government (or whatever figure they're prepared to allocate on a 100% funded basis), and see what you get for that? If nothing else, such a plan would likely allay residents' concerns into the bargain.

Of course the new stadium might not be able to host very large GAA crowds, but how many of those would Casement realistically get each season. Or is (VAT-free) Clones really unfit to accommodate such games?

And as for huge concerts and conferences etc, maybe a stripped-down plan might not be able to host these but realistically, how much real demand is there for these?
There could be a few concerts without stretching the imagination too much, conferences i don't know. Croke Park is advertised often as a location for various  conferences, I don't know how much cash it brings in but I'd hazard a guess that it allows fulltime staff to be hired who do other duties as well.  I'd guess that Belfast as a capital in the north would provide a decent return on conference fees. Primarily, i think  a  fully seated and covered  decent sized stadium would be a boon for the GAA and as a stadium it would garner more than enough usage to justify its cost to the UK taxpayer.
You must realise that without the 3 or 4 internationals per annum, Windsor Park would be mostly empty all year round. The GAA is a different proposition
to  the sport of soccer, it is much more actively supported at a local level than soccer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 19, 2020, 10:43:24 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.

20k with a roof if a GAA pitch isn't too big for it. It would be nice to have a pristine pitch in decent weather conditions for McKenna Cup, Ulster club matches etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thewobbler on February 19, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Would anyone know the plausibility / logistics of adding 10,000 seats to the Athletic Grounds?

Seems to me that the logical conclusion of this debacle is to create a smaller county ground on a greenfield in Antrim, and upgrade an existing, more central stadium to provincial ground status.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 10:59:35 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 18, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Qn: Were the £62m not available from the Government, would anyone in the GAA be saying: "We need a 40k seater, £77m stadium in Belfast. Now how do we go about building it?"

I think the only answer can be "No".

Of course, the £62m is available, but now that the cost has spiralled beyond £100m (with more to come?), is the GAA comfortable with adding, say, £40m to the government's £62m? (I really can't see Stormont either wanting to go beyond £62m, or being allowed to under the rules).

So why not just save your own £15m, take £47m from the government (or whatever figure they're prepared to allocate on a 100% funded basis), and see what you get for that? If nothing else, such a plan would likely allay residents' concerns into the bargain.

Of course the new stadium might not be able to host very large GAA crowds, but how many of those would Casement realistically get each season. Or is (VAT-free) Clones really unfit to accommodate such games?

And as for huge concerts and conferences etc, maybe a stripped-down plan might not be able to host these but realistically, how much real demand is there for these?

Why is it ok for Soccer or Rugby? but not GAA which is the largest sport in NI by a long way.
Cost has spiralled due to Civil Service and Government incompetence. They must step in and cover any shortfall. Remember the GAA was happy to share a stadium with Rugby and Soccer. Soccer especially objected. So this isn't a mess of the GAAs making therefore costs are not our problem. Casement gets built, no matter the cost.

As an aside when was the last time a large government infrastructure or building project was delivered on budget?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:22:28 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 19, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Would anyone know the plausibility / logistics of adding 10,000 seats to the Athletic Grounds?

Seems to me that the logical conclusion of this debacle is to create a smaller county ground on a greenfield in Antrim, and upgrade an existing, more central stadium to provincial ground status.

In fairness Athletic Grounds is a cracking stadium and a great size for club and county games. The pitch also seems to be the best around.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 19, 2020, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.

I think this is a bit unfair. It wasn't the council, the unionists or the tories who decided to remove the stadium fittings and let the pitch go to seed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I still can't fathom why they closed the place up!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: five points on February 19, 2020, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.

I think this is a bit unfair. It wasn't the council, the unionists or the tories who decided to remove the stadium fittings and let the pitch go to seed.
Not only that but the GAA still haven't had a plan passed, after a number of attempts (I can't remember how many now, 3 maybe). They have to shoulder the blame on that.

Why hasn't an architect no doubt experienced at such planning applications been unable to get it approved.....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 11:59:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 19, 2020, 12:43:58 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.

Who would give up home advantage though?
And if teams did, would 15,000 be enough to hold a double header?
Say Tyrone Dublin was one game, there's not much seats left for t'other two counties.

Just for league - make them all ticket.

How many games have been called off this past few years?  It's deadly.  Too many games being postponed at this tome of year.  They are all crammed into 7 or 8 weeks - madness.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I still can't fathom why they closed the place up!!

My understanding was that it was going to take a significant cash injection to bring it up to anywhere near a use-able standard.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.
Indeed, up the Dubs. You nordies are only Brits anyway and deserve nothing from OUR association.
:-\

There's a wee want in you.

There's a want in all of us somewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 12:03:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I still can't fathom why they closed the place up!!

My understanding was that it was going to take a significant cash injection to bring it up to anywhere near a use-able standard.

It seemed alright in 2013 when I was there, especially for the few who go to Antrim games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 19, 2020, 12:03:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I still can't fathom why they closed the place up!!

My understanding was that it was going to take a significant cash injection to bring it up to anywhere near a use-able standard.

It was useable the day they started demolishing it. The main stand had (correctly) been condemned but a few hoardings or even a semi-permanent high fence around it would have solved that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I still can't fathom why they closed the place up!!

My understanding was that it was going to take a significant cash injection to bring it up to anywhere near a use-able standard.
Stop talking out of your hole ffs! "My understanding"

Ok. The place was a shithole and completely unfit to hold GAA games.
Can't really win with you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on February 19, 2020, 12:14:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 12:06:48 PM
The stand had not been condemned. There is to this day a social club operating on the ground floor of that very stand. It had to reduce the stands capacity as there were not enough exits but it was and still is structurally sound.
Ok, my bad. I was in it at an USFC game in 2010 and I thought that access via the narrow stairs at the back was hazardous. Unlike other stands, it didn't have the possibility of exiting onto the field. I also scraped and cut my leg on a sharp edge of a seat that day which didn't say a lot for the health & safety setup.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 12:15:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 12:03:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: five points on February 19, 2020, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.

I think this is a bit unfair. It wasn't the council, the unionists or the tories who decided to remove the stadium fittings and let the pitch go to seed.
Not only that but the GAA still haven't had a plan passed, after a number of attempts (I can't remember how many now, 3 maybe). They have to shoulder the blame on that.

Why hasn't an architect no doubt experienced at such planning applications been unable to get it approved.....
You tell me. They're trying to put a square peg in a round hole perhaps? Either way, it is they who have wasted time/money on bollix proposals that keep getting knocked back as they don't meet regulations.
But sure, it's everybody else's fault.

Perhaps experts such as you should take over the project as you seem to have a brilliant grasp of planning laws and regulations around large scale projects such as this.
Everyone accepts that this is going to be well over budget but look that's the way these things are. It just need built at this stage, whatever the cost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 19, 2020, 12:23:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
I still can't fathom why they closed the place up!!

Supposedly someone had a mate that could get a good price for the copper and steelwork.

Typical f**king chancers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Mourne Rover on February 19, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
There were suggestions that the county board had the choice between spending a relatively modest amount of money, which would have kept the ground in use at least in the short term, or spending nothing, on the basis that the full rebuild might hopefully follow before too long. If they had gone for the first option, the brilliant pitch, the changing rooms and the terraces would still have been available even if the entire stand was temporarily closed. This would have allowed club games and probably county fixtures to be staged there without interruption.

Main Street's suggestion that Windsor Park is mostly empty, other than for three or four internationals per year, is a little unusual. Linfield play more than 20 times per season there in front of an average crowd of a few thousand, and it is well filled for various cup finals and semi finals as well. Women's teams and underage matches also take place there, albeit in front of limited attendances, while Carl Frampton packed it out in 2018 and is supposed to be returning in the summer.  There would also have been plenty of games to keep Casement Park in business if the shutters had not been pulled down.





Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 19, 2020, 12:29:54 PM
I'm not going to bother quoting a specific trailer post, because each one is equally as wrong. It'd feel bad to single one out for special attention.

Nothing wrong with Clones for the few times a year its needed. That money is better diverted to grass-roots than a white elephant. Indeed, the flaws are part of the character of the day.

- No need of a big stadium in Belfast. 20k is more than sufficient. Design the main stand so its fit for a future extension if needed.
- Conferences will not migrate in their droves to the Andytown Road away from the city centre. There are reasons they are mostly held at hotels or within walking distance of hotels.
- Concerts are a sideshow to the GAA.
- How many concerts would the GAA need to have to recoup the extra money they are putting in to justify the larger stadium in the first place?
- The money is far, far better spent elsewhere. The lack of need for budget control is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 19, 2020, 02:32:15 PM
Does Antrim NEED a 34 -38k capacity stadium....definitely not. Does Ulster?... I still cant see why its essential if it is jam packed only once a year. Personally I think some people got a bit carried away with the whole thing. If you offered most Antrim gaels a reduced version of something classy between 15k and 20k they would grab it with both hands. Personally I couldn't give a toot about conferences concerts Mc Donald's or anything else.

It's more important to me that Antrim have the proper resources and financial support to get stuck into the project of sparking real passion into the Gaa in the Belfast area and beyond into the country areas of Antrim to attempt to get our county teams punching it's true weight in terms of matching its potential.

A big White elephant Ulster Council project.... or a scaled down affordable yet classy version with Gaelfast properly resourced to tackle soccer head on and go into traditionally non Gaa schools and attract ten times the number of juveniles currently playing our sports. To me that's a no brainer.

You're not going to get more input or passion from the game in Carrickmore  Bellaghy or Kilcoo where GAA is the only show in town....but if Ulster council are serious about developing the game in the province, them mathematically, by a mile their growth area is Greater Belfast.

A classy 20k capacity now, with space allocated for future expansion in a second phase development if and when appropriate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2020, 03:32:36 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 19, 2020, 02:32:15 PM
Does Antrim NEED a 34 -38k capacity stadium....definitely not. Does Ulster?... I still cant see why its essential if it is jam packed only once a year. Personally I think some people got a bit carried away with the whole thing. If you offered most Antrim gaels a reduced version of something classy between 15k and 20k they would grab it with both hands. Personally I couldn't give a toot about conferences concerts Mc Donald's or anything else.

It's more important to me that Antrim have the proper resources and financial support to get stuck into the project of sparking real passion into the Gaa in the Belfast area and beyond into the country areas of Antrim to attempt to get our county teams punching it's true weight in terms of matching its potential.

A big White elephant Ulster Council project.... or a scaled down affordable yet classy version with Gaelfast properly resourced to tackle soccer head on and go into traditionally non Gaa schools and attract ten times the number of juveniles currently playing our sports. To me that's a no brainer.

You're not going to get more input or passion from the game in Carrickmore  Bellaghy or Kilcoo where GAA is the only show in town....but if Ulster council are serious about developing the game in the province, them mathematically, by a mile their growth area is Greater Belfast.

A classy 20k capacity now, with space allocated for future expansion in a second phase development if and when appropriate.

It's not Antrim's stadium and it's not for them alone. Get over yourself.
The GAA is in decline in Antrim because of the Antrim Co. board. They can look to others to blame but if they got up off their own holes and did something it'd be a good start in which others could row in behind with support.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 19, 2020, 04:00:04 PM
Sorry Pal I'm only looking at this through an Antrim perspective. We had a stadium that could have been tidied up and well fit for purpose and conceded this to Ulster council for a better alternative. That's what I'm still waiting on!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 19, 2020, 04:06:11 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.

No. Thats not correct either.

If the GAA pulls their money out, then the govt funding drops, but doesn't go away entirely.

So use that remaining govt funding to develop a ground sized for the task.... and use the saved GAA monies to direct toward development of the game in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.
Thats not correct. If the GAA took the £15m away, Stormont would have still ponied up enough for a significant upgrade of Casement or a greenfield 20k stadium further out of town. So you have a decent, fit for purpose venue and cash for development.

Instead the GAA had to play oneupmanship and shoehorn in Belfast's biggest venue onto a site that it couldn't fit and lied to try.  This is all about having a shinier venue than soccer and nothing to do with what Ulster or Antrim actually need.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 19, 2020, 06:46:11 PM
A special case should 100% be made for Antrim on the grounds that it contains Irelands second largest city and by far the biggest population of potential Gaa players in the province ....ie that's where the expedential growth lies. The Gaa did it for Dublin (fair play they presented a professional case for sustainability and partnership with clubs/schools etc) but look at those dividends. Almost too good that its killed off most of the opposition.

Trailer Antrim has got a lot of its act together and it's taken a lot of work for these new structures to be put in place. The county board in situ are making great strides on and off the field. In contrast your condescending attitude stinks of new money....when you have the medals that Antrim have across the broad spectrum of Gaa games, please let us all know. All Ireland club winners in both codes, how does your club set up compare with that??? Answer please on the back of a stamp.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 07:04:39 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on February 19, 2020, 12:28:41 PM
There were suggestions that the county board had the choice between spending a relatively modest amount of money, which would have kept the ground in use at least in the short term, or spending nothing, on the basis that the full rebuild might hopefully follow before too long. If they had gone for the first option, the brilliant pitch, the changing rooms and the terraces would still have been available even if the entire stand was temporarily closed. This would have allowed club games and probably county fixtures to be staged there without interruption.

Main Street's suggestion that Windsor Park is mostly empty, other than for three or four internationals per year, is a little unusual. Linfield play more than 20 times per season there in front of an average crowd of a few thousand, and it is well filled for various cup finals and semi finals as well. Women's teams and underage matches also take place there, albeit in front of limited attendances, while Carl Frampton packed it out in 2018 and is supposed to be returning in the summer.  There would also have been plenty of games to keep Casement Park in business if the shutters had not been pulled down.
Note that last years Windor Park cup final attendance was less than 6,000, previous year was <12,000.
My point was that the new Casement would not have to try very hard to beat the attendance figures that Windsor Park manages to get.
And I guess  most people can accept that Belfast needs a Windsor Park or at least does not begrudge it existing.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.
Thats not correct. If the GAA took the £15m away, Stormont would have still ponied up enough for a significant upgrade of Casement or a greenfield 20k stadium further out of town. So you have a decent, fit for purpose venue and cash for development.

Instead the GAA had to play oneupmanship and shoehorn in Belfast's biggest venue onto a site that it couldn't fit and lied to try.  This is all about having a shinier venue than soccer and nothing to do with what Ulster or Antrim actually need.

The GAA wanted a stadium that added something to the other Ulster stadia rather than being for Antrim alone, one of the counties with the least support. The revised plan is a for stadium whose capacity is little more than the previous one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.
Thats not correct. If the GAA took the £15m away, Stormont would have still ponied up enough for a significant upgrade of Casement or a greenfield 20k stadium further out of town. So you have a decent, fit for purpose venue and cash for development.

Instead the GAA had to play oneupmanship and shoehorn in Belfast's biggest venue onto a site that it couldn't fit and lied to try.  This is all about having a shinier venue than soccer and nothing to do with what Ulster or Antrim actually need.

The GAA wanted a stadium that added something to the other Ulster stadia rather than being for Antrim alone, one of the counties with the least support. The revised plan is a for stadium whose capacity is little more than the previous one.

So they shouldn't have gone with Casement then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.
Thats not correct. If the GAA took the £15m away, Stormont would have still ponied up enough for a significant upgrade of Casement or a greenfield 20k stadium further out of town. So you have a decent, fit for purpose venue and cash for development.

Instead the GAA had to play oneupmanship and shoehorn in Belfast's biggest venue onto a site that it couldn't fit and lied to try.  This is all about having a shinier venue than soccer and nothing to do with what Ulster or Antrim actually need.

The GAA wanted a stadium that added something to the other Ulster stadia rather than being for Antrim alone, one of the counties with the least support. The revised plan is a for stadium whose capacity is little more than the previous one.

So they shouldn't have gone with Casement then.

It is in the biggest centre of population and it has a railway and motorway nearby. Where would you put it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 09:20:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.
Thats not correct. If the GAA took the £15m away, Stormont would have still ponied up enough for a significant upgrade of Casement or a greenfield 20k stadium further out of town. So you have a decent, fit for purpose venue and cash for development.

Instead the GAA had to play oneupmanship and shoehorn in Belfast's biggest venue onto a site that it couldn't fit and lied to try.  This is all about having a shinier venue than soccer and nothing to do with what Ulster or Antrim actually need.

The GAA wanted a stadium that added something to the other Ulster stadia rather than being for Antrim alone, one of the counties with the least support. The revised plan is a for stadium whose capacity is little more than the previous one.

So they shouldn't have gone with Casement then.

It is in the biggest centre of population and it has a railway and motorway nearby. Where would you put it?
....somewhere else near Belfast...

You are falling for the spin. Casement or nothing were the only options.

Even then, with VAT on tickets in the 6, you would need to get 43,200 punters at any the Ulster final in the 6 to match the gate. So even the too big Casement was too small.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2020, 10:33:28 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 09:20:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 19, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 19, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
I can't believe people are still crying about the size and location of the stadium when built. This money is for a stadium and not developing players. Get over it ffs.
Thats not correct. If the GAA took the £15m away, Stormont would have still ponied up enough for a significant upgrade of Casement or a greenfield 20k stadium further out of town. So you have a decent, fit for purpose venue and cash for development.

Instead the GAA had to play oneupmanship and shoehorn in Belfast's biggest venue onto a site that it couldn't fit and lied to try.  This is all about having a shinier venue than soccer and nothing to do with what Ulster or Antrim actually need.

The GAA wanted a stadium that added something to the other Ulster stadia rather than being for Antrim alone, one of the counties with the least support. The revised plan is a for stadium whose capacity is little more than the previous one.

So they shouldn't have gone with Casement then.

It is in the biggest centre of population and it has a railway and motorway nearby. Where would you put it?
....somewhere else near Belfast...

You are falling for the spin. Casement or nothing were the only options.

Even then, with VAT on tickets in the 6, you would need to get 43,200 punters at any the Ulster final in the 6 to match the gate. So even the too big Casement was too small.

Why? THE f**k! Do you keep going on about VAT?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 20, 2020, 11:18:54 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?

You'd have to take a look at the make up of the Ulster Council at the time Clones was invested in and therein lies the truth.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 20, 2020, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2020, 07:04:39 PM
Note that last years Windor Park cup final attendance was less than 6,000, previous year was <12,000.
My point was that the new Casement would not have to try very hard to beat the attendance figures that Windsor Park manages to get.
And I guess  most people can accept that Belfast needs a Windsor Park or at least does not begrudge it existing.
The point about Windsor was that it was no longer fit to stage international football matches according to UEFA/FIFA rules.

Meaning we HAD to have a new stadium, whether full or empty, for one game a season or ten, with a rebuilt Windsor being "the only show in town".

As things turned out, imo they should have gone for a larger stadium (25-30k?), since it now pretty much sells out all our 6 or 8 internationals a season, but that's by the by. Point is, they needed a modern stadium and they built it, pretty much within budget and on time.

And at the same time Linfield, who still own the Freehold though not the stadium, can continue to use the stadium for their own games whilst receiving rent to compensate them for the fact that it's much too big for their personal needs.

I don't see why the Ulster Council and Antrim couldn't have reached a similar arrangement to the IFA and Linfield, esp since Antrim surely can't be as greedy a shower of hooers as those Linfield bastards  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?

Clones obviously got big games as it had a railway station and a lot of fans travelled to games by train, up until the late 1950's.

Casement held some up until the early years of the troubles, as car travel/roads improved. Presumably because of the troubles, Ulster finals were moved back to Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?

Train station.
Nothing at all to do with VAT.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?

Train station.
Nothing at all to do with VAT.

Belfast doesn't have one?

It closed in 1957.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 20, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?

Train station.
Nothing at all to do with VAT.

Belfast doesn't have one?

It closed in 1957.

Clones you mean!

Big money was spent updating Clones in the 80's when a certain Mick Feeney was secretary.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 20, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 11:12:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2020, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 10:52:12 AM
Its the first time I have mentioned it.

Its the reason UF are held in Clones and why Clones exists as it does.

No. And No.

Yes and whats your theory of how a town of 1,600 right on the border, thats the 4th biggest in the county ended up with a 36,000 ground?

Train station.
Nothing at all to do with VAT.

Belfast doesn't have one?

It closed in 1957.

Clones you mean!

Big money was spent updating Clones in the 80's when a certain Mick Feeney was secretary.
He argued that Clones got UF's because its on a trainline. As opposed to Belfast, Derry, Omagh, Strabane, Newry, Cavan, Monaghan, Antrim, Enniskillen etc. Talking gash that man.

There seem to be two questions here.

1. How did Clones get Ulster finals in 1909. Not a clue.

2. How did Clones keep them. Partition, the troubles, vat, internal politics are all factors.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2020, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 12:53:02 PM
He argued that Clones got UF's because its on a trainline. As opposed to Belfast, Derry, Omagh, Strabane, Newry, Cavan, Monaghan, Antrim, Enniskillen etc. Talking gash that man.

There seem to be two questions here.

1. How did Clones get Ulster finals in 1909. Not a clue.

2. How did Clones keep them. Partition, the troubles, vat, internal politics are all factors.
[/quote]

Clones was the most important train junction in Ulster and so more suitable than Monaghan or Enniskillen as both those lines went to Clones.  Some of the other venues you mention are less central e.g. Derry and in others you would have been extremely lucky to get a GAA ground built in 1909. e.g. Antrim. And I the people in Clones worked to build their venue and showed an interest, which people in West Belfast do not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 20, 2020, 02:42:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2020, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2020, 12:53:02 PM
He argued that Clones got UF's because its on a trainline. As opposed to Belfast, Derry, Omagh, Strabane, Newry, Cavan, Monaghan, Antrim, Enniskillen etc. Talking gash that man.

There seem to be two questions here.

1. How did Clones get Ulster finals in 1909. Not a clue.

2. How did Clones keep them. Partition, the troubles, vat, internal politics are all factors.

Clones was the most important train junction in Ulster and so more suitable than Monaghan or Enniskillen as both those lines went to Clones.  Some of the other venues you mention are less central e.g. Derry and in others you would have been extremely lucky to get a GAA ground built in 1909. e.g. Antrim. And I the people in Clones worked to build their venue and showed an interest, which people in West Belfast do not.
[/quote]

I'd say Portadown was the most important railway junction in Ulster back then. Hardly the ideal place to build a big stadium then, and probably even now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 20, 2020, 02:42:18 PM
I'd say Portadown was the most important railway junction in Ulster back then. Hardly the ideal place to build a big stadium then, and probably even now.

Exactly, only Tony Fearon would have went to games there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on February 20, 2020, 03:33:11 PM
I think the big error in finance people are making is think that if a stadium is not built all that money would be available for other purposes ,
The stadium would be financed by The Government Crokepark and future Revenue from the stadium Via Loans  , which should come in many forms not just Matches,
it should not effect the daya to day Runnung cost of the GAA ata all.
P ui C maheve overspent but there is a class stadium there now and the argument can go on as long as Ir likes ,
whereas he arguments are going on and nothing to show for it in Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51656736

£110m as expected.

F**king waste of money.


If anyone who'd have the ear of a minister is reading this - this gael doesn't want his tax wasted on it. I'm sure we could do a poll on here that would put the majority along with me.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fearsiuil on February 27, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
World be a much better place if everyone recycled as much as this story.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 27, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51656736

£110m as expected.

F**king waste of money.


If anyone who'd have the ear of a minister is reading this - this gael doesn't want his tax wasted on it. I'm sure we could do a poll on here that would put the majority along with me.
An amateur SPAD suggests:
"But the minister said she could not confirm that her department would bid for an extra £33 million to complete the project as it has not yet passed through the planning process. that whether it passes the planning process or not, her department would NOT be bidding for an extra £33m to bail out the GAA for its own incompetence and hubris, especially at a time when hospitals and schools are crying out for public money"

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 27, 2020, 02:46:26 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 27, 2020, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51656736

£110m as expected.

F**king waste of money.


If anyone who'd have the ear of a minister is reading this - this gael doesn't want his tax wasted on it. I'm sure we could do a poll on here that would put the majority along with me.
An amateur SPAD suggests:
"But the minister said she could not confirm that her department would bid for an extra £33 million to complete the project as it has not yet passed through the planning process. that whether it passes the planning process or not, her department would NOT be bidding for an extra £33m to bail out the GAA for its own incompetence and hubris, especially at a time when hospitals and schools are crying out for public money"

Time for Ulster GAA to build a stadium for the original budget allocated for it, which I think was £77M or not build it at all.

Where is the Ulster GAA Project leader Ryan Feeney now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51656736

£110m as expected.

F**king waste of money.


If anyone who'd have the ear of a minister is reading this - this gael doesn't want his tax wasted on it. I'm sure we could do a poll on here that would put the majority along with me.

Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match), we get it you don't want it built. I'm wondering if you go to Croke Pk do you always get a ticket for the Hill...lol as you don't want to sit down to watch a match.
I think if there was a public vote you'll find a vast majority will vote for it and i've no doubt it will be built (hopefully sooner rather than later)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match),

we get it you don't want it built.

You obviously don't "get it".

I've consistently called for a suitably sized and appropriate stadium.

20k, one seated stand, one covered terrace. The Athletic grounds are a fine template that they should seek to copy.

No white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match),

we get it you don't want it built.

You obviously don't "get it".

I've consistently called for a suitably sized and appropriate stadium.

20k, one seated stand, one covered terrace. The Athletic grounds are a fine template that they should seek to copy.

No white elephant.

I do get, I just disagree with you. We should get a 34,000 seating stadium that we (Ulster & Antrim Gaels) deserve. I know not everyone wants it and that's fair enough but as i stated above you'll find a poll would show a high demand for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 28, 2020, 07:59:40 AM
There are just far too many more pressing priorities.  As a tax payer and an Antrim gael I don't want £33mn extra spent on this. Spend it on schools and hospitals, give nurses, doctors and teachers a pay rise. 

Swallow your pride, go back to the drawing board and build an Athletic Grounds size stadium in west Belfast which will have a good atmosphere for Antrim GAA.

Spend whatever's left on Clones.  If we ever get back there, the drive down the road will be part of the craic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match),

we get it you don't want it built.

You obviously don't "get it".

I've consistently called for a suitably sized and appropriate stadium.

20k, one seated stand, one covered terrace. The Athletic grounds are a fine template that they should seek to copy.

No white elephant.

I do get, I just disagree with you. We should get a 34,000 seating stadium that we (Ulster & Antrim Gaels) deserve. I know not everyone wants it and that's fair enough but as i stated above you'll find a poll would show a high demand for it.

Why do you think Ulster & Antrim gaels deserve it illdecide?

And I dont mean a new stadium (which Antrim should obviously have) but why we deserve, specifically, a 34,000 stadium ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 08:13:41 AM
Can admin add a poll to this thread please?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 28, 2020, 09:22:31 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match),

we get it you don't want it built.

You obviously don't "get it".

I've consistently called for a suitably sized and appropriate stadium.

20k, one seated stand, one covered terrace. The Athletic grounds are a fine template that they should seek to copy.

No white elephant.

I do get, I just disagree with you. We should get a 34,000 seating stadium that we (Ulster & Antrim Gaels) deserve. I know not everyone wants it and that's fair enough but as i stated above you'll find a poll would show a high demand for it.

Why do you think Ulster & Antrim gaels deserve it illdecide?

And I dont mean a new stadium (which Antrim should obviously have) but why we deserve, specifically, a 34,000 stadium ?

Leinster & Munster have great stadiums for Provincial finals or big games that merit it, Connacht is a bit like Ulster but eventually will get a big upgrade & I believe Ulster should get the same. Clones i agree with most of you has/had a great buzz for Ulster Final day but it's getting run down and will need a fortune spent on it as well geographically not ideal (which isn't a game changer). Money is set aside for the stadium at Casement and the fact that Antrim have to play their matches at club grounds (and different grounds on a regular basis). IMO (maybe just mine) I want it and I believe most other people would want it too( although maybe not on the Board). I know there is a bit of an increase needed for the stadium but lets be honest guys in Government terms it's pennies and i get all your ideas where that extra money could go but every year there are millions set aside for sports and other projects no matter what is spent on Health & Education etc and for the record if i thought for one minute that it was 2 schools or 20 nurses or the Stadium I'd never vote for the stadium, it doesn't work like that. It's not one or the other...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2020, 09:54:15 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 28, 2020, 07:59:40 AM
There are just far too many more pressing priorities.  As a tax payer and an Antrim gael I don't want £33mn extra spent on this. Spend it on schools and hospitals, give nurses, doctors and teachers a pay rise. 

Swallow your pride, go back to the drawing board and build an Athletic Grounds size stadium in west Belfast which will have a good atmosphere for Antrim GAA.

Spend whatever's left on Clones.  If we ever get back there, the drive down the road will be part of the craic.

No point stopping at Casement for poor use of government funding, they paid wages for over 3 years to MLA's for feck all, the lack of infrastructure throughout the north is terrible, the links between the M1 and M2 need sorting out and while they are sorting that a bridge linking the M3 would be a good addition also. also getting to Derry on

Building a stadium in Belfast isn't a bad thing, most major cities have multi sports stadiums, we currently have two,  soccer and rugby, why not have a decent one for GAA? yes the plans are probably way over the top but building something like the Athletic grounds isn't looking into the future, if we get to the point that the GAA grows and grows the way we want it, surely some foresight into building a decent modern stadium would be the right thing to do?

25k would be my size of stadium, but the plans and infrastructure needs to be in place to facilitate all needs, safety being the being the main one. Its not going anywhere but Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 10:19:47 AM
Quote from: illdecide on February 28, 2020, 09:22:31 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match),

we get it you don't want it built.

You obviously don't "get it".

I've consistently called for a suitably sized and appropriate stadium.

20k, one seated stand, one covered terrace. The Athletic grounds are a fine template that they should seek to copy.

No white elephant.

I do get, I just disagree with you. We should get a 34,000 seating stadium that we (Ulster & Antrim Gaels) deserve. I know not everyone wants it and that's fair enough but as i stated above you'll find a poll would show a high demand for it.

Why do you think Ulster & Antrim gaels deserve it illdecide?

And I dont mean a new stadium (which Antrim should obviously have) but why we deserve, specifically, a 34,000 stadium ?

Leinster & Munster have great stadiums for Provincial finals or big games that merit it, Connacht is a bit like Ulster but eventually will get a big upgrade & I believe Ulster should get the same. Clones i agree with most of you has/had a great buzz for Ulster Final day but it's getting run down and will need a fortune spent on it as well geographically not ideal (which isn't a game changer). Money is set aside for the stadium at Casement and the fact that Antrim have to play their matches at club grounds (and different grounds on a regular basis). IMO (maybe just mine) I want it and I believe most other people would want it too( although maybe not on the Board). I know there is a bit of an increase needed for the stadium but lets be honest guys in Government terms it's pennies and i get all your ideas where that extra money could go but every year there are millions set aside for sports and other projects no matter what is spent on Health & Education etc and for the record if i thought for one minute that it was 2 schools or 20 nurses or the Stadium I'd never vote for the stadium, it doesn't work like that. It's not one or the other...

First point is Antrim definitely need a county ground and it is frankly a disgrace they havent got one.

I have an issue with the additional money that is now needed for the stadium and the size of it.

Who is at fault for now going back looking an extra £30 odd million?

Both Windsor & Ravenhill have a capacity of less than 20k but we think we need one over 34k and want over £30m more than what was agreed to do this.

A stadium of 25k would be more than enough and would mean not as much of the extra money (if any) is needed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2020, 11:01:46 AM
So most people seem happy with 25000. A new design is throwing more money at it before anything has actually been built. Surely having seats at the terrace end will drop another few thousand off the capacity giving around 30000 some 10000 less than the original plan.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2020, 09:54:15 AMyes the plans are probably way over the top but building something like the Athletic grounds isn't looking into the future, if we get to the point that the GAA grows and grows the way we want it, surely some foresight into building a decent modern stadium would be the right thing to do?

Nothing to stop the main stand being designed such that another tier can be added in future.

Even the East terrace roof could be structured for an additional (seated) tier in future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 28, 2020, 12:42:50 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2020, 11:01:46 AM
So most people seem happy with 25000. A new design is throwing more money at it before anything has actually been built. Surely having seats at the terrace end will drop another few thousand off the capacity giving around 30000 some 10000 less than the original plan.

Take the roof off the Owenvarragh side like the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick.

More sunshine for the residents and greatly reduced costs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 28, 2020, 02:12:59 PM
In all this talk about capacity needs and deserts etc, many of the 30k+ camp are (wilfully?) overlooking one thing.

Which is that due to physical constraints on access/egress/evacuation in an emergency, the GAA have not yet been able to persuade the planning authorities that they may safely and legally build a stadium that size.

And unless or until that hurdle can be overcome (and I can't see it myself), then they must surely cut their cloth accordingly.

My (uneducated) guess is that they might get away with around 25k. And while this might not satisfy the "Build It And They Will Come" visionaries, it nevertheless confers a number of other advantages:

1. Medium-sized stadium more nearly suited to Antrim's needs (Clones can still do the really big Ulster games);
2. The Stormont money alone should be sufficient to build it;
3. The GAA's £15m could then be reallocated towards other projects, including in Antrim itself;
4. Better relations with all their immediate neighbours.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 28, 2020, 02:13:33 PM
In all this talk about capacity needs and just deserts etc, many of the 30k+ camp are (wilfully?) overlooking one thing.

Which is that due to physical constraints on access/egress/evacuation in an emergency, the GAA have not yet been able to persuade the planning authorities that they may safely and legally build a stadium that size on that site.

And unless or until that hurdle can be overcome (and I can't see it myself), then they must surely cut their cloth accordingly.

My (uneducated) guess is that they might get away with around 25k. And while this might not satisfy all the "Build It And They Will Come" visionaries, it nevertheless confers a number of other advantages:

1. Medium-sized stadium more nearly suited to Antrim's needs (Clones can still do the really big Ulster games, VAT-free);
2. The Stormont money alone should be sufficient to build it;
3. The GAA's £15m could then be reallocated towards other projects, including in Antrim itself;
4. Better relations with all their immediate neighbours.

Moreover, stadia these days only have a "shelf-life" of around 50 years. So if an "interim" 25k stadium could be used to develop Gaelic games in Belfast/Antrim to somewhere nearer its potential over the next couple of decades, that should give Ulster GAA time to plan forward for a potentially much larger successor stadium in the decades to follow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 28, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 28, 2020, 09:22:31 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:53:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 27, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
Well from your posts right from page 1 you've made it quite clear you don't want a new Casement (right from i don't want to f**king sit down to watch a match),

we get it you don't want it built.

You obviously don't "get it".

I've consistently called for a suitably sized and appropriate stadium.

20k, one seated stand, one covered terrace. The Athletic grounds are a fine template that they should seek to copy.

No white elephant.

I do get, I just disagree with you. We should get a 34,000 seating stadium that we (Ulster & Antrim Gaels) deserve. I know not everyone wants it and that's fair enough but as i stated above you'll find a poll would show a high demand for it.

Why do you think Ulster & Antrim gaels deserve it illdecide?

And I dont mean a new stadium (which Antrim should obviously have) but why we deserve, specifically, a 34,000 stadium ?

Leinster & Munster have great stadiums for Provincial finals or big games that merit it, Connacht is a bit like Ulster but eventually will get a big upgrade & I believe Ulster should get the same. Clones i agree with most of you has/had a great buzz for Ulster Final day but it's getting run down and will need a fortune spent on it as well geographically not ideal (which isn't a game changer). Money is set aside for the stadium at Casement and the fact that Antrim have to play their matches at club grounds (and different grounds on a regular basis). IMO (maybe just mine) I want it and I believe most other people would want it too( although maybe not on the Board). I know there is a bit of an increase needed for the stadium but lets be honest guys in Government terms it's pennies and i get all your ideas where that extra money could go but every year there are millions set aside for sports and other projects no matter what is spent on Health & Education etc and for the record if i thought for one minute that it was 2 schools or 20 nurses or the Stadium I'd never vote for the stadium, it doesn't work like that. It's not one or the other...
You seem to be repeatedly making a case that people don't want it built. They do, it's just that people don't see the need for the proposed capacity. Let's face it, the initial plans for this were a vanity project with figures based on concerts etc. and not "gaels". It would be almost empty ~350 days of the year but still requiring an army of people to maintain it. In its current guise, in the current climate, it is a nonsense project.

Antrim don't have a county ground and they should have one. Do they need to play in a 34k seater county ground? A resounding no!

Build a top class 25k stadium with the available capital. Let's get on with it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 03:12:50 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 28, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
Build a top class 25k stadium with the available capital. Let's get on with it.

Good idea, give Antrim a free ground that is feck all use to the GAA generally.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 28, 2020, 03:31:16 PM
Not 100% sure haven't the time to troll thru the pages but I believe the actual figure (open to correction) for evacuation safely in the 8 mins (max) allocated is/was 18,000. Think of how many time the Ulster Council and Antrim Co Board put patrons Health & Safety at risk playing games at the old Casement when there were crowds exceeding 18,000, having a full house at the old Casement and if there ever had of been an incident how would that have ended...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Rod Stewart? Ed Sheeran x 2

upcoming Dido, Westlife x 2
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Rod Stewart? Ed Sheeran x 2

upcoming Dido, Westlife x 2

So not exactly a white elephant
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 29, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Rod Stewart? Ed Sheeran x 2

upcoming Dido, Westlife x 2

So not exactly a white elephant

I think that is one of the main problems with the argument against. One minute it is a white elephant never going be used never going to be filled, next minute it will have concerts every night, packed to the rafters, chaos around the stadium and safety concerns emptying the thousands attending. It can't be both.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 29, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Rod Stewart? Ed Sheeran x 2

upcoming Dido, Westlife x 2

So not exactly a white elephant

I think that is one of the main problems with the argument against. One minute it is a white elephant never going be used never going to be filled, next minute it will have concerts every night, packed to the rafters, chaos around the stadium and safety concerns emptying the thousands attending. It can't be both.
Remove "every night" and it can be both.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 29, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Rod Stewart? Ed Sheeran x 2

upcoming Dido, Westlife x 2

So not exactly a white elephant

I think that is one of the main problems with the argument against. One minute it is a white elephant never going be used never going to be filled, next minute it will have concerts every night, packed to the rafters, chaos around the stadium and safety concerns emptying the thousands attending. It can't be both.

Chaos? Ffs stop with the hyperbole shit,  if the planing is in place to sort evacuation then what's the problem? There are concerts in every city, even Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 29, 2020, 01:54:55 PM
That's my point many of the arguments are unreasonable and using contradictory excuses. I think some of gotten used to living next to a nice quiet field for nearly 10 years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 02:58:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 29, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 28, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
Has anyone actually run any numbers whatsoever in terms of capacity versus cost.
How many times would a 30k seater stadium be expected to sell out over the next 20/25/30 years versus a 25k seater versus a 35k seater.
How much would a 25k/30k/35k seater costs versus the expected extra revenue they would bring in.
I would say most of the GAA stadia in Ireland rarely if ever hit full capacity.
From what I could find from a quick search PuC in Cork has only sold out to its full capacity of 45k once since it opened as a sports venue and that was for the Liam Millar charity gig.

The following are the attendences for all the championship games in hurling and football

Cork v Limerick 2018 hurling 34,607
Wexford v Waterford 2017 hurling 31,753
Cork v Tipp 2019 2017 hurling 30,274
Tipp v Clare 2017 hurling 28,567
Cork v Kerry 2018 football 27,764
Cork v Waterford 2019 hurling 26,521
Cork v Clare 2018 hurling 24,490
Cork v Kerry 2019 football 18,265
Clare v Wexford 2019 hurling 10,225
Cork v Limerick 2019 football 3,128

So far it looks like a 35k seater would have been sufficient.
Sold out any concerts?
Rod Stewart? Ed Sheeran x 2

upcoming Dido, Westlife x 2

So not exactly a white elephant

I think that is one of the main problems with the argument against. One minute it is a white elephant never going be used never going to be filled, next minute it will have concerts every night, packed to the rafters, chaos around the stadium and safety concerns emptying the thousands attending. It can't be both.
By the same token, to say it has to be 34k to suit the GAAs needs and when questioned on this the backbone of your argument is music concerts, then you are talking out your arse.
The GAA does not NEED music concerts at Casement Park.

No it doesn't need concerts but it'll happen and it won't be a big deal, residents will think differently of course, so they need to be covered
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.
+1. Is there provision in the plans for gate so the stewards can continue to let their mates in for free?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 29, 2020, 05:44:02 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.
+1. Is there provision in the plans for gate so the stewards can continue to let their mates in for free?

A brand new 'one for me one for you' system will be installed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 06:27:11 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.
+1. Is there provision in the plans for gate so the stewards can continue to let their mates in for free?
As most of the concert going crowd would be on the pitch itself, the number of seats in the stadium is academic for the concert event ambitions. The 34k capacity is to do with being able to cater for Ulster final day and such?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 08:14:44 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 29, 2020, 06:27:11 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.
+1. Is there provision in the plans for gate so the stewards can continue to let their mates in for free?
As most of the concert going crowd would be on the pitch itself, the number of seats in the stadium is academic for the concert event ambitions. The 34k capacity is to do with being able to cater for Ulster final day and such?
The "and such". Does it exist?
Remember that the GAA has to go back to the government with a begging bowl, in search of an extra £30m on top of the shed load they got previously.

"We could really put this £30m to good use in other services, do you really need a 34k stadium?"

"Aye, well, there's this Ulster final once a year, ye see."

"Oh right!"

"But concerts, by Christ, we'll have a load of concerts."

Worth noting that the GAA feel that strongly about this stadium that they rushed out the doors to declare that they wouldn't be putting up the extra dough.
Does that mean you agree that needing 34k seats for music concerts is not part of the debate, an argument you previously mentioned?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.

I don't think anyone looked at building a stadium for the GAA and thought concerts, yes a business plan would have involved concerts conferences weddings meetings and all sorts that are not associated with the GAA buts that's standard I'd have thought.

I'm not for 40 or 34 grand sized stadium I just want Casement built. I'm fed up with the shite that's carried on since it closed its gates wrongly at the time!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 29, 2020, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 08:58:42 PM
You brought up concerts, ya tube. My point was that they shouldn't be mentioned ffs.

Not as a primary justification. But once you have the hall, use it and make a few quid to go to the upkeep.

The issue then becomes the relationship with the locals. The Croker residents really dislike the concerts, will Casement in a suburban setting be any different?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.

I don't think anyone looked at building a stadium for the GAA and thought concerts, yes a business plan would have involved concerts conferences weddings meetings and all sorts that are not associated with the GAA buts that's standard I'd have thought.

I'm not for 40 or 34 grand sized stadium I just want Casement built. I'm fed up with the shite that's carried on since it closed its gates wrongly at the time!
Having concerts in the stadium is fine but if they are the only thing that is going to fill it on a regular basis, you have to ask what you're building it so big for, especially when you are having to go back to government and beg for another £30m.

The GAA was given a huge amount of money for this stadium. More than twice as much as soccer, more than quadruple what rugby got.
They made an almighty balls of their project.
Now they're back seeking an extra £30m - more than soccer got initially, more than double what rugby got initially.
They should be told to take a hike IMO.

Anyone who disagrees with that does so for no other reason than bias.

If it was any other organisation, they'd be saying the same thing. I can imagine the uproar if it was the IFA or Ulster rugby at this craic.

GAA are not begging for another £30m, they just said they're not funding anymore. Government signed up to upgrade 3 stadiums in Belfast, two is done with one more to follow.

GAA get bigger attendances than soccer & Rugby so need a bigger stadium. Evil G has already stated on previous pages that Windsor should have been constructed with a bigger capacity.

So the GAA made a balls of their project? the only balls they made was closing Casement until it was ready to close. The scheme has been put on hold for a number of reasons that are not entirely the GAA's fault. H&S, planners, no Government, bitter twisted sectarian Unionists against the scheme or anything Catholic are all to blame so to say the GAA made a balls is silly.

The scheme is going to go ahead eventually no matter what some of you say on here that are against it, I can't understand why some of you are so against the capacity. It just doesn't make sense, an Ulster final with say Tyrone v Armagh would fill 40,000 easily. I know your argument about once a year but it can host other games not just an Ulster final...McKenna cup finals, a super 8 game...Just get the thing built and get on with your lives and then you can find something else to moan about
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 01, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 08:58:42 PM
You brought up concerts, ya tube. My point was that they shouldn't be mentioned ffs.
Jesus you're as thick as brick
I replied to your post about concerts
Here's what you wrote you birdbrain
QuoteI'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year.

Having concerts is not a reason why the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
The government didn't sign up to upgrade 3 grounds. They committed specific amounts of money to 3 associations to upgrade their grounds. There is a difference.

Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2020, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
The government didn't sign up to upgrade 3 grounds. They committed specific amounts of money to 3 associations to upgrade their grounds. There is a difference.

Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.

What money? The 62 million the government had assigned for a new stadium? Or the money Croke was going to cough up for the new development?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 01, 2020, 06:47:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
I don't think anyone looked at building a stadium for the GAA and thought concerts, yes a business plan would have involved concerts conferences weddings meetings and all sorts that are not associated with the GAA buts that's standard I'd have thought.

I'm not for 40 or 34 grand sized stadium I just want Casement built. I'm fed up with the shite that's carried on since it closed its gates wrongly at the time!
Having concerts in the stadium is fine but if they are the only thing that is going to fill it on a regular basis, you have to ask what you're building it so big for, especially when you are having to go back to government and beg for another £30m.

The GAA was given a huge amount of money for this stadium. More than twice as much as soccer, more than quadruple what rugby got.
They made an almighty balls of their project.
Now they're back seeking an extra £30m - more than soccer got initially, more than double what rugby got initially.
They should be told to take a hike IMO.

Anyone who disagrees with that does so for no other reason than bias.

If it was any other organisation, they'd be saying the same thing. I can imagine the uproar if it was the IFA or Ulster rugby at this craic.
Nicely put, hardstation.

One further point. The government money is specifically designated to provide provincial sports stadia for the three codes, not 40k seater concert venues.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 01, 2020, 07:00:06 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
GAA are not begging for another £30m, they just said they're not funding anymore. Government signed up to upgrade 3 stadiums in Belfast, two is done with one more to follow.
Disingenuous.

The GAA are saying they need a stadium which will cost £110m. This is far more than they were originally allocated, indeed far more than is available. Worse, the cost overrun is entirely their own fault.

Their original funding was already very reasonable, they should be required to cut their cloth accordingly, like the two other codes did.

Quote from: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
GAA get bigger attendances than soccer & Rugby so need a bigger stadium. Evil G has already stated on previous pages that Windsor should have been constructed with a bigger capacity.
With the money they received, the IFA could have designed and built a stadium with a larger capacity. But they went small rather than big out of an unambitious, small-town mentality (imo).

Your comparison would only hold water if the IFA were now to go back to the government demanding extra money to dig them out of their own initial mistake.

They're not doing so, and even though I'd dearly love to see WP enlarged (I've been in games with over 40k in attendance), I cannot accept that they deserve it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 01, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.
I'm sure that could have happened had the GAA wanted. There is this "it had to be one stadium" narrative but I'm not sure how true that is or whether there was room for negotiation on that. The shiny concert venue in Andytown probably suited the GAA and those negotiating on their behalf in government.
Absolutely not so.

When the Civil Service 'bean counters' in Stormont concluded that the original shared stadium on the Maze site could never be financially viable long-term, they basically re-allocated the Maze money between the three codes for each to build a provincial stadium of their own.

They were quite specific that money could not be used for other purposes and any attempt to do so would have left the governing body open to all sorts of legal challenge, both from within the Stormont chamber, and from outside.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 01, 2020, 07:29:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 01, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
Then the GAA should simply have divided the money between the 6 counties for improvements at each. We could have had a new stand at Casement and it could have remained in operation all along. Healy park could have drained their pitch.
I'm sure that could have happened had the GAA wanted. There is this "it had to be one stadium" narrative but I'm not sure how true that is or whether there was room for negotiation on that. The shiny concert venue in Andytown probably suited the GAA and those negotiating on their behalf in government.
Absolutely not so.

When the Civil Service 'bean counters' in Stormont concluded that the original shared stadium on the Maze site could never be financially viable long-term, they basically re-allocated the Maze money between the three codes for each to build a provincial stadium of their own.

They were quite specific that money could not be used for other purposes and any attempt to do so would have left the governing body open to all sorts of legal challenge, both from within the Stormont chamber, and from outside.
Which, I imagine would also be the case in relation to giving the GAA an extra £30m?

It looks like the GAA needs to get on with building a stadium that will cost £77m.
Living within your means? It'll never catch on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 01, 2020, 07:38:49 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 01, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
When the Civil Service 'bean counters' in Stormont concluded that the original shared stadium on the Maze site could never be financially viable long-term, they basically re-allocated the Maze money between the three codes for each to build a provincial stadium of their own.

They were quite specific that money could not be used for other purposes and any attempt to do so would have left the governing body open to all sorts of legal challenge, both from within the Stormont chamber, and from outside.
Which, I imagine would also be the case in relation to giving the GAA an extra £30m?
Indeed.

(Quite apart from the fact that there is no extra £30m)

Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
It looks like the GAA needs to get on with building a stadium that will cost £77m.
Wow!

Pretty radical thinking there, hs!  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 07:50:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
It looks like the GAA needs to get on with building a stadium that will cost £77m.

Not even.

How much of that initial £77m has been burned getting to this point?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 10:07:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 10:23:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 29, 2020, 04:01:07 PM
I'm not saying that they won't happen and I'm not saying they will be a big deal. I'm saying that concerts should not be the major reason the GAA are insisting on a 34k capacity. Having concerts does not legitimise the building of a stadium at a capacity much greater than your needs for the vast majority of the year. If you are willing to pay for this yourself, I could say "fair enough, your choice" but to ask the government to fork out 95 of the 110 million for this, you are at your lark.

I don't think anyone looked at building a stadium for the GAA and thought concerts, yes a business plan would have involved concerts conferences weddings meetings and all sorts that are not associated with the GAA buts that's standard I'd have thought.

I'm not for 40 or 34 grand sized stadium I just want Casement built. I'm fed up with the shite that's carried on since it closed its gates wrongly at the time!
Having concerts in the stadium is fine but if they are the only thing that is going to fill it on a regular basis, you have to ask what you're building it so big for, especially when you are having to go back to government and beg for another £30m.

The GAA was given a huge amount of money for this stadium. More than twice as much as soccer, more than quadruple what rugby got.
They made an almighty balls of their project.
Now they're back seeking an extra £30m - more than soccer got initially, more than double what rugby got initially.
They should be told to take a hike IMO.

Anyone who disagrees with that does so for no other reason than bias.

If it was any other organisation, they'd be saying the same thing. I can imagine the uproar if it was the IFA or Ulster rugby at this craic.

GAA are not begging for another £30m, they just said they're not funding anymore. Government signed up to upgrade 3 stadiums in Belfast, two is done with one more to follow.

GAA get bigger attendances than soccer & Rugby so need a bigger stadium. Evil G has already stated on previous pages that Windsor should have been constructed with a bigger capacity.

So the GAA made a balls of their project? the only balls they made was closing Casement until it was ready to close. The scheme has been put on hold for a number of reasons that are not entirely the GAA's fault. H&S, planners, no Government, bitter twisted sectarian Unionists against the scheme or anything Catholic are all to blame so to say the GAA made a balls is silly.

The scheme is going to go ahead eventually no matter what some of you say on here that are against it, I can't understand why some of you are so against the capacity. It just doesn't make sense, an Ulster final with say Tyrone v Armagh would fill 40,000 easily. I know your argument about once a year but it can host other games not just an Ulster final...McKenna cup finals, a super 8 game...Just get the thing built and get on with your lives and then you can find something else to moan about
The government didn't sign up to upgrade 3 grounds. They committed specific amounts of money to 3 associations to upgrade their grounds. There is a difference. The government is under no obligation to ensure the grounds are updated. That lies solely with the respective organisations. Soccer & rugby delivered on their development using the money the government awarded them. The GAA failed to deliver on their stadium. So this "they got theirs so you have to make sure we get ours" is nonsense. The only thing the government have to stand over is the £62m they put forward.

The reason the GAA haven't delivered on their stadium is largely their fault. I concede that the break in Stormont played a part but the rest of it was on the GAA. Playing the "it's cos we're fenians" inferiority card is pathetic tbh. It's not because you are fenians, it's because you are incompetent.

If the GAA aren't willing to fund the project further, who should and why should they?

Well HS not to get into a separate debate about Fenians (your word not mine), around the time of the Casement project I was involved in another scheme under the Stadia Safety and a certain Sports Minister at that time made it quite clear that too many GAA Grounds were getting these grants and the funding was pulled with another GAA Ground next on the list. I know you're going to ask proof which i cannot give. That was i commented on the bitter, anti Catholic agenda...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
I don't want proof. There are bitter & sectarian people everywhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this project has been held up for that reason though.

Yip, fair enough but i did state another 3 or 4 reasons i felt held up the project not just an anti Catholic agenda. Anyway it is what it is and God only knows how it will pan out, I still think it'll be built but who'll fund the extra dosh is anyone's guess and as far as the capacity goes seems everyone has a different opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 02, 2020, 08:08:50 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
I don't want proof. There are bitter & sectarian people everywhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this project has been held up for that reason though.

Yip, fair enough but i did state another 3 or 4 reasons i felt held up the project not just an anti Catholic agenda. Anyway it is what it is and God only knows how it will pan out, I still think it'll be built but who'll fund the extra dosh is anyone's guess and as far as the capacity goes seems everyone has a different opinion.
The problem is you are letting the GAA off the hook. The forging of H&S documents is an irrelevant,its a conspiracy by themmuns.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 02, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 07:39:15 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 01, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
I don't want proof. There are bitter & sectarian people everywhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this project has been held up for that reason though.

Yip, fair enough but i did state another 3 or 4 reasons i felt held up the project not just an anti Catholic agenda. Anyway it is what it is and God only knows how it will pan out, I still think it'll be built but who'll fund the extra dosh is anyone's guess and as far as the capacity goes seems everyone has a different opinion.
No, you didn't. You stated 3 in total.
1. No Stormont - I accept that played a part.
2. Health & Safety planners - I'd like you to explain that one further. The fundamental issue was that the planning application submitted by the GAA did not meet h&s requirements. They have to carry the can on that.
3. Sectarianism - Fake news.

Point 2, how could those tasked with the design of the stadium get it so wrong? I'm assuming they were up to speed with the health and Safety regulations and their outworkings but it seems that the planning authority (or whoever it was) deemed the design a safety risk..

Was there a dispute about using the pitch itself as a safe zone in terms of the evacuation?

why would you submit something that was going to fail?

Now, I think Ulster GAA have been more than crap at this but surely their design team they are paying bug bucks to really should have been on the ball here!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 02, 2020, 06:16:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 02, 2020, 11:59:09 AM
Point 2, how could those tasked with the design of the stadium get it so wrong? I'm assuming they were up to speed with the health and Safety regulations and their outworkings but it seems that the planning authority (or whoever it was) deemed the design a safety risk..
You might have asked how could they have got it so wrong TWICE?

To go with the question why they didn't maintain the old ground in a playable state until they had got planning permission and were ready to start the work?

And the question why they so understimated opposition by some of the locals?

Plus why it took so long to satisfy/pacify Antrim GAA members (social club etc)?

And if the suspension of Stormont undoubtedly added to their problems, how come the IRFU and IFA managed to get on with it long before the suspension?

Remember, too, that the Windsor Park re-build had to be revised mid-project, when BCC work on the adjoining Leisure Centre undermined the foundations of the Kop, meaning it unexpectedly had to be replaced as well. (A new Kop was not part of the original plan)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2020, 07:44:59 PM
Some great arguments lads. But the bottom line is this. Whatever the cost, the stadium gets built. It's wanted, needed and required. It future proofs our elite level games by having an elite level stadium to hold them in.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2020, 08:27:00 PM
It's only 33m. When the UK government is increasing defence spending or funding other infrastructure projects the money is there. Just get it built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2020, 08:34:02 PM
Why you so against it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 08:42:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2020, 08:34:02 PM
Why you so against it?

'cos a proverbial diamond studded and gold lined Casement Park is not needed.

A basic 20k stadium is needed. The money saved by the GAA can then be put into coaching in the schools of Antrim and making a real difference to the fortunes of the GAA in Antrim. The money saved by Stormont can be put into hospital beds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2020, 09:30:28 PM
Did we not give it away though rather than it being removed from us?(maybe I am wrong on this but that was my understanding?) ok that was probably on the back of promises mind you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 02, 2020, 10:33:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 08:24:14 PM
That's that then. We're all wondering who is going to foot the extra £33m to build it and all the while the answer was staring us in the face - Just build it whatever the cost.

Sure, Christ, it's both "needed" and "required" all at the same time.
But Paul Maskey says cost cannot delay the project any further. Why are Shinners so mad keen to get this built at the highest possible cost?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 02, 2020, 11:34:30 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but was planning or temporary (if such a thing exists) planning was granted only to have a change of heart, I believe that was why Antrim/Ulster GAA closed Casement then as they believed the scheme was about to start. Paul Scott of Sport NI claimed that the GAA and Councillors were trying to bully him into approving the planning when he had safety concerns with the proposal, you cannot use the field of play as part of your evacuation or as a safe place as the red and green guides state you must evacuate the stadium in 8 mins. Using software they can calculate the movement from the stands to safely outside the stadium and according to their software this could not be achieved due to the surrounding area around the stadium, there simply was not enough room for everyone to spill out onto the streets without it backing up back into the ground.

What i can't get my head around is how this was allowed in the old existing Casement but was not ok in the new proposed stadium, so it was ok to have a crush in the old ground but not the new one. I know some of the new laws probably came out after the Ground was constructed which is fair enough but surely through time they should have been given a time limit to sort this out. Belfast City Council are responsible for issuing a Safety certificate for a match day and the proper way of dealing with this is to reduce the capacity for the game, so if the old Casement could hold 33,000 (that's a guess, what was it's full capacity?) then they should have been issuing a Safety certificate for 18,000 but I can't remember seeing or hearing about the ground being restricted to half capacity....Double standards if you ask me.

Getting back to the original query as the above is how it should have happened, the GAA obviously told their consultants what they wanted (capacity and number of seating etc) and it was up to them to design a stadium using the Red and Green Guide for Sports Grounds NI with the help of Sport NI, their original proposal did not meet the criteria (according to Paul Scott who at that time was meant to be the expert) so was rejected after being initially passed. After a long episode of no Government and rowing with planners the Design team believed they cracked the Safety Issue and with a redesign and submitted back into Planning to where it's currently at, so was the design team at fault for the initial design? did planners deal with the scheme they way they should have? Does this fall back as the GAA's fault being the client? I'm sure there was a lot more that went on that we don't know about and probably never will...(that's what i do know)

As a GAA man and a Gael from Ulster I (my opinion) want the new stadium build ASAP, I believe majority people want the same (except on here). I don't know what the capacity will be but i hope it's over 30,000 (designed safely of course), I don't know who'll cough up the extra cash for it (do a whip around, just don't do it on the GAA Board...lol) and lastly unless they have bought up houses and land around the proposed stadium I can't see how they can achieve anything over the 18,000 mark that was talked about in previous years...so yeah we're no further on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 03, 2020, 07:07:47 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 09:39:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 02, 2020, 09:30:28 PM
Did we not give it away though rather than it being removed from us?(maybe I am wrong on this but that was my understanding?) ok that was probably on the back of promises mind you.
Either way, it's a part of this clusterfcuk that is a joke.

I agree. Antrim county board culpable too. No one has covered themselves in glory here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2020, 10:27:55 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2020, 11:34:30 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but was planning or temporary (if such a thing exists) planning was granted only to have a change of heart, I believe that was why Antrim/Ulster GAA closed Casement then as they believed the scheme was about to start. Paul Scott of Sport NI claimed that the GAA and Councillors were trying to bully him into approving the planning when he had safety concerns with the proposal, you cannot use the field of play as part of your evacuation or as a safe place as the red and green guides state you must evacuate the stadium in 8 mins. Using software they can calculate the movement from the stands to safely outside the stadium and according to their software this could not be achieved due to the surrounding area around the stadium, there simply was not enough room for everyone to spill out onto the streets without it backing up back into the ground.

What i can't get my head around is how this was allowed in the old existing Casement but was not ok in the new proposed stadium, so it was ok to have a crush in the old ground but not the new one. I know some of the new laws probably came out after the Ground was constructed which is fair enough but surely through time they should have been given a time limit to sort this out. Belfast City Council are responsible for issuing a Safety certificate for a match day and the proper way of dealing with this is to reduce the capacity for the game, so if the old Casement could hold 33,000 (that's a guess, what was it's full capacity?) then they should have been issuing a Safety certificate for 18,000 but I can't remember seeing or hearing about the ground being restricted to half capacity....Double standards if you ask me.

Getting back to the original query as the above is how it should have happened, the GAA obviously told their consultants what they wanted (capacity and number of seating etc) and it was up to them to design a stadium using the Red and Green Guide for Sports Grounds NI with the help of Sport NI, their original proposal did not meet the criteria (according to Paul Scott who at that time was meant to be the expert) so was rejected after being initially passed. After a long episode of no Government and rowing with planners the Design team believed they cracked the Safety Issue and with a redesign and submitted back into Planning to where it's currently at, so was the design team at fault for the initial design? did planners deal with the scheme they way they should have? Does this fall back as the GAA's fault being the client? I'm sure there was a lot more that went on that we don't know about and probably never will...(that's what i do know)

As a GAA man and a Gael from Ulster I (my opinion) want the new stadium build ASAP, I believe majority people want the same (except on here). I don't know what the capacity will be but i hope it's over 30,000 (designed safely of course), I don't know who'll cough up the extra cash for it (do a whip around, just don't do it on the GAA Board...lol) and lastly unless they have bought up houses and land around the proposed stadium I can't see how they can achieve anything over the 18,000 mark that was talked about in previous years...so yeah we're no further on

I never understood why buying a few strategic houses to improve flow wasnt suggested. Isnt there a lot of land at the nearby leisure centre in the event of an emergency that could also be used to further help evacuation flow or even open up access to Riverdale. The lack of alternative thought from the GAA/design team is staggering considering the delays and now additional costs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 03, 2020, 10:44:31 AM
I take it demolishing/updating the current structures/terracing and replacing them with covered seating  that's meets H&S it is out of the question? Because other than that  I can't see where the additional funding will come from, disappointed with the GAA hq tbh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 03, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
Art, take your common sense approach elsewhere. No room for it here! Let's spend a pile of money we don't have on a big shiny thing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 03, 2020, 12:58:48 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

;D Great post.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on March 03, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 03, 2020, 12:56:31 PM
Art, take your common sense approach elsewhere. No room for it here! Let's spend a pile of money we don't have on a big shiny thing.

Yeah Art, ye big eejit.

GAA top brass doing what the old British empire used to do (or will do again with thon bridge to Scotland), building the worlds biggest buildings, bridges, castles, etc, to showcase their might and power... while the people (the clubs) starve.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

It's news to me that both Semple and the Gaelic grounds are "rotting into the ground"

When Thurles has the best sod in the country outside of croke park and there's been nearly €15m spend on it in the last 5 years as well being the only stadium outside of CP to have Hawkeye,The Gaelic Grounds is also fit for purpose,held a Munster final last year and is well able to cater for attendances,far in excess of what is ever needed in Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 08:45:05 PM
There's no money for it.
There's no room for it.
There's no need for it.
It's gone on too long.
It has seen Antrim's greatest monetary asset removed from them.
It has left us with no county ground.

There is money and plenty of it. The longer it delays the more it will cost. Sooner it is built the cheaper it'll be.
There's no room for it. ? Doesn't make sense
There is of course a need. There's not a decent GAA stadium in the North capable of hold USFC SF & Finals.
Yes it's gone on too long, more reason to get it done.
Antrim gave it up
And your solution to having no county ground is not to build one?

If we took this attitude to everything nothing would ever be built. Everything has a cost. Sometimes the cost isn't relevant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on March 03, 2020, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 08:45:05 PM
There's no money for it.
There's no room for it.
There's no need for it.
It's gone on too long.
It has seen Antrim's greatest monetary asset removed from them.
It has left us with no county ground.

There is money and plenty of it. The longer it delays the more it will cost. Sooner it is built the cheaper it'll be.
There's no room for it. ? Doesn't make sense
There is of course a need. There's not a decent GAA stadium in the North capable of hold USFC SF & Finals.
Yes it's gone on too long, more reason to get it done.
Antrim gave it up
And your solution to having no county ground is not to build one?

If we took this attitude to everything nothing would ever be built. Everything has a cost. Sometimes the cost isn't relevant.
Bullshit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2020, 04:03:19 PM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on March 03, 2020, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 08:45:05 PM
There's no money for it.
There's no room for it.
There's no need for it.
It's gone on too long.
It has seen Antrim's greatest monetary asset removed from them.
It has left us with no county ground.

There is money and plenty of it. The longer it delays the more it will cost. Sooner it is built the cheaper it'll be.
There's no room for it. ? Doesn't make sense
There is of course a need. There's not a decent GAA stadium in the North capable of hold USFC SF & Finals.
Yes it's gone on too long, more reason to get it done.
Antrim gave it up
And your solution to having no county ground is not to build one?

If we took this attitude to everything nothing would ever be built. Everything has a cost. Sometimes the cost isn't relevant.
Bullshit

Well you did give it up quite easily as the Ulster Council had your CB mesmerised by the bright and shiny new things on offer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 03, 2020, 05:23:43 PM
Hardstation are you Nelson McCausland?...Sorry couldn't resist ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2020, 05:31:36 PM
Get permission and build what ye can for the money available.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 03, 2020, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

It's news to me that both Semple and the Gaelic grounds are "rotting into the ground"

When Thurles has the best sod in the country outside of croke park and there's been nearly €15m spend on it in the last 5 years as well being the only stadium outside of CP to have Hawkeye,The Gaelic Grounds is also fit for purpose,held a Munster final last year and is well able to cater for attendances,far in excess of what is ever needed in Ulster.

I went too far saying that "they're rotting into the ground" but they are dated stadiums that really look every bit of their age. They're cold/unwelcoming stadiums in inclement weather and when you look at the quality and appearance of rugby stadiums in the Champions Cup or even Championship soccer they don't compare well at all. An outsider looking in would hardly believe that Thurles is the home of hurling and the GAA's second flagship stadium.

The general point is that the GAA should exercise more oversight on county boards and 100m would have been better spent on a 30/30/40 split between PUC/Limerick and Thurles.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

It's news to me that both Semple and the Gaelic grounds are "rotting into the ground"

When Thurles has the best sod in the country outside of croke park and there's been nearly €15m spend on it in the last 5 years as well being the only stadium outside of CP to have Hawkeye,The Gaelic Grounds is also fit for purpose,held a Munster final last year and is well able to cater for attendances,far in excess of what is ever needed in Ulster.

I went too far saying that "they're rotting into the ground" but they are dated stadiums that really look every bit of their age. They're cold/unwelcoming stadiums in inclement weather and when you look at the quality and appearance of rugby stadiums in the Champions Cup or even Championship soccer they don't compare well at all. An outsider looking in would hardly believe that Thurles is the home of hurling and the GAA's second flagship stadium.

The general point is that the GAA should exercise more oversight on county boards and 100m would have been better spent on a 30/30/40 split between PUC/Limerick and Thurles.

There was €15m spent on Thurles and your calling it dated and sub par

You now want to spend €30/40m on it to bring it up to top end rugby stadiums?

You'd want to be spending multiples of that to bring up it to those standards.

Thurles and the Gaelic Grounds more than does the job for what it's intended
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:37:18 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

It's news to me that both Semple and the Gaelic grounds are "rotting into the ground"

When Thurles has the best sod in the country outside of croke park and there's been nearly €15m spend on it in the last 5 years as well being the only stadium outside of CP to have Hawkeye,The Gaelic Grounds is also fit for purpose,held a Munster final last year and is well able to cater for attendances,far in excess of what is ever needed in Ulster.

I went too far saying that "they're rotting into the ground" but they are dated stadiums that really look every bit of their age. They're cold/unwelcoming stadiums in inclement weather and when you look at the quality and appearance of rugby stadiums in the Champions Cup or even Championship soccer they don't compare well at all. An outsider looking in would hardly believe that Thurles is the home of hurling and the GAA's second flagship stadium.

The general point is that the GAA should exercise more oversight on county boards and 100m would have been better spent on a 30/30/40 split between PUC/Limerick and Thurles.

There was €15m spent on Thurles and your calling it dated and sub par

You now want to spend €30/40m on it to bring it up to top end rugby stadiums?

You'd want to be spending multiples of that to bring up it to those standards.

Thurles and the Gaelic Grounds more than does the job for what it's intended

Was in Semple a few years ago and I did find it a bit dated but functional.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 03, 2020, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 08:45:05 PM
There's no money for it.
There's no room for it.
There's no need for it.
It's gone on too long.
It has seen Antrim's greatest monetary asset removed from them.
It has left us with no county ground.

There is money and plenty of it. The longer it delays the more it will cost. Sooner it is built the cheaper it'll be.
There's no room for it. ? Doesn't make sense
There is of course a need. There's not a decent GAA stadium in the North capable of hold USFC SF & Finals.
Yes it's gone on too long, more reason to get it done.
Antrim gave it up
And your solution to having no county ground is not to build one?

If we took this attitude to everything nothing would ever be built. Everything has a cost. Sometimes the cost isn't relevant.
1. There is a £33m deficit.
2. One of the major hold ups is that the GAA are insistent on putting a huge structure in a small area. This is why they have had problems with both residents & h&s.
3. We've been through this. I can't see why it is required.
4. A reduced sized stadium would have games on it this weekend.
5. Ulster took it/Antrim gave it up - Either way, Antrim no longer own or control what was theirs.
6. Build one. By Christ - build one! If we choose a smaller stadium, we could have it sooner. Or we wait...and we balls about....and we beg for £33m....and we don't get it...and we wait....and we hope that some day it'll be built...and we wait.

Look you don't want it and that's a perfectly valid position. But it's going to be built. On the Andersonstown rd in Belfast. It going to be a 33 or 34k state of the art stadium. I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over. It is now a time for action.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

It's news to me that both Semple and the Gaelic grounds are "rotting into the ground"

When Thurles has the best sod in the country outside of croke park and there's been nearly €15m spend on it in the last 5 years as well being the only stadium outside of CP to have Hawkeye,The Gaelic Grounds is also fit for purpose,held a Munster final last year and is well able to cater for attendances,far in excess of what is ever needed in Ulster.

I went too far saying that "they're rotting into the ground" but they are dated stadiums that really look every bit of their age. They're cold/unwelcoming stadiums in inclement weather and when you look at the quality and appearance of rugby stadiums in the Champions Cup or even Championship soccer they don't compare well at all. An outsider looking in would hardly believe that Thurles is the home of hurling and the GAA's second flagship stadium.

The general point is that the GAA should exercise more oversight on county boards and 100m would have been better spent on a 30/30/40 split between PUC/Limerick and Thurles.

There was €15m spent on Thurles and your calling it dated and sub par

You now want to spend €30/40m on it to bring it up to top end rugby stadiums?

You'd want to be spending multiples of that to bring up it to those standards.

Thurles and the Gaelic Grounds more than does the job for what it's intended

Thomond Park was redeveloped for 40 million. Ravenhill for 20 million. Even allowing for the extra capacity of Thurles the economy of scale would certainly keep it under 50 or 60.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:36:45 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:19:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 12:24:41 PM
We need to acknowledge these white elephant projects are achieving f**k all. Pairc Ui Choamh is the same clusterfuck. It's time the top brass reeled in the provinces and county boards over their spending. The amount of cash being pissed up the wall currently is no joke.

If we all leave county bias at the door it's centrally located stadia we need in each province that can facilitate neutral matches. Building large, resource sucking stadiums on the periphery of the country with little in the way of appeal to facilitating neutral games is pointless. PUC, casement and McHale in reality are large vanity projects for those involved which have been a hangman's noose for the county and provincial (casement) boards that pushed them.

Semple and Limerick host a large number of matches each year and have obvious benefits of being close to major road infrastructure. Yet both are rotting into the ground whilst an inaccessible 100million stadium in cork city lies empty. Casement will be the exact same. A lovely looking stadium that will be full once a year at best, maybe only once every 2 but will lie idle the vast majority of the time. Really the home of Ulster GAA should be at Dungannon or Armagh. Centrally located in province and close to good road infrastructure. Clones is the home of the GAA because at the time it was the central point in the northern rail network, making it an accessible site for fans to travel too. It was a logical, rational choice to have it as the home of the Ulster GAA. Now once again a rational and logical decision should be made to abandon the large scale casement project and invest the 60 odd million in a centrally located stadium that can accommodate both a county's home matches and a large number of neutral club and county, womens, underage and hurling matches that means unlike the cork debacle we can actually get some use out of the damn thing.

It's news to me that both Semple and the Gaelic grounds are "rotting into the ground"

When Thurles has the best sod in the country outside of croke park and there's been nearly €15m spend on it in the last 5 years as well being the only stadium outside of CP to have Hawkeye,The Gaelic Grounds is also fit for purpose,held a Munster final last year and is well able to cater for attendances,far in excess of what is ever needed in Ulster.

I went too far saying that "they're rotting into the ground" but they are dated stadiums that really look every bit of their age. They're cold/unwelcoming stadiums in inclement weather and when you look at the quality and appearance of rugby stadiums in the Champions Cup or even Championship soccer they don't compare well at all. An outsider looking in would hardly believe that Thurles is the home of hurling and the GAA's second flagship stadium.

The general point is that the GAA should exercise more oversight on county boards and 100m would have been better spent on a 30/30/40 split between PUC/Limerick and Thurles.

There was €15m spent on Thurles and your calling it dated and sub par

You now want to spend €30/40m on it to bring it up to top end rugby stadiums?

You'd want to be spending multiples of that to bring up it to those standards.

Thurles and the Gaelic Grounds more than does the job for what it's intended

Thomond Park was redeveloped for 40 million. Ravenhill for 20 million. Even allowing for the extra capacity of Thurles the economy of scale would certainly keep it under 50 or 60.

Thomond Parks capacity is 26,500 with 2 stands and 2 open terraces

Are you seriously suggesting this for Thurles

Explain to me what your suddenly revised upwards budget of "under 50 or 60" million euros would be spent on ?

Considering there's already no shortage of stadia already in Munster and there's not one of comparable size in Ulster.

I'm here looking at your opening post,you don't seem to be in anyways consistent.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?

Phase one involved repairing the structure of the Kinane Stand and upgrading the area underneath the stand to incorporate 4 dressing rooms, 2 referees rooms, drug testing room, first aid room, counting room, ticketing room, stewards room and kitchen. Other works included:

Construction of permanent ticket sales outlets at the approaches to the Stadium
Upgrading the ladies and gents toilets
Providing outlets for concession and hot food sales at the rear of the stand
Upgrading the turnstiles to incorporate bar code readers facilitating automatic access.
Levelling and upgrading the floors of the concourse area at rear of stand
Providing a toilet and kitchenette in the high level press area
Creating a theme at the rear of the stand and its approaches, using flags, banners and graphics, capturing the history and tradition of Semple Stadium
The erection of the Dome (Multipurpose Sports Building) behind Ardán Ó Riain
Phase 2 of the project, involved upgrading Ardán Uí Riain and terracing, improving access to the pitch, providing VIP and corporate facilities, floodlighting,Pitch relay,underground irrigation and installation of Hawkeye.


I suppose,your now going to tell us all

It should have been done for a third of the price?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on March 04, 2020, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?

I'm open to correction, but I believe the bulk went on the roof over the main stand, which is the side where the TV cameras are based. If that is the case, I always felts it looked like a pretty poor return for such an investment.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 04, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on March 04, 2020, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?

I'm open to correction, but I believe the bulk went on the roof over the main stand, which is the side where the TV cameras are based. If that is the case, I always felts it looked like a pretty poor return for such an investment.

Of course it was a poor return on the investment just like every other recent development by the GAA. Either Irish builders are crap or there is a huge amount of creaming off by people with these developments

Pairc ui Chaoimh cost AT LEAST 110million and what do you have one nice stand and 3 other sides that look almost identical to the ones that were just knocked down and they looked f**king dated when they were first built in the seventies

Its like spot the difference

(https://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/p/PaircUiChaoimh2Jul14_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-678048)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKqfBW7W0AAc8Ay.jpg)

Cant be bothered finding a 110 million development in UK or Europe but off the top of my head here is the Juventus stadium redeveloped at the same time for 150 million. Now to me thats a massive difference in quality for 40 million.

(https://www.commercialriskonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0_Juventus-stadium-2.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ezXVuW0AQyrsT.jpg)

It was the same with McHale that new stand was built at the same time for the same capacity for the same money as the new Leicester rugby stand.

(https://i2.wp.com/mayoclub51.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/machale-park-seating-plan-stand.jpg?ssl=1)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/y7kYawqhWdlF65RPAw0sEXb30mcpSpNvws9cIF9L0UFUf8OKtzKJx_jvE8-IN6iIiu7008f6oXkAUU6sAs3Xk2iYosY)

Like ffs the one at Castlebar has posts holding up the roof

Bit of a pattern going on - something seriously dodgy

For the ones talking about pumping the money into Clones could you imagine the state of the cow shed they would build costing something ridiculous.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 04, 2020, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on March 04, 2020, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?

I'm open to correction, but I believe the bulk went on the roof over the main stand, which is the side where the TV cameras are based. If that is the case, I always felts it looked like a pretty poor return for such an investment.

None of it went on the roof on the old stand,that was done about 25 years ago

I've listed out where the €18m went
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on March 04, 2020, 10:12:46 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 04, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on March 04, 2020, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?

I'm open to correction, but I believe the bulk went on the roof over the main stand, which is the side where the TV cameras are based. If that is the case, I always felts it looked like a pretty poor return for such an investment.

Of course it was a poor return on the investment just like every other recent development by the GAA. Either Irish builders are crap or there is a huge amount of creaming off by people with these developments

Pairc ui Chaoimh cost AT LEAST 110million and what do you have one nice stand and 3 other sides that look almost identical to the ones that were just knocked down and they looked f**king dated when they were first built in the seventies

Its like spot the difference

(https://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/p/PaircUiChaoimh2Jul14_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-678048)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKqfBW7W0AAc8Ay.jpg)

Cant be bothered finding a 110 million development in UK or Europe but off the top of my head here is the Juventus stadium redeveloped at the same time for 150 million. Now to me thats a massive difference in quality for 40 million.

(https://www.commercialriskonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0_Juventus-stadium-2.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ezXVuW0AQyrsT.jpg)

It was the same with McHale that new stand was built at the same time for the same capacity for the same money as the new Leicester rugby stand.

(https://i2.wp.com/mayoclub51.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/machale-park-seating-plan-stand.jpg?ssl=1)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/y7kYawqhWdlF65RPAw0sEXb30mcpSpNvws9cIF9L0UFUf8OKtzKJx_jvE8-IN6iIiu7008f6oXkAUU6sAs3Xk2iYosY)

Like ffs the one at Castlebar has posts holding up the roof

Bit of a pattern going on - something seriously dodgy

For the ones talking about pumping the money into Clones could you imagine the state of the cow shed they would build costing something ridiculous.


Was just going to mention the Juventus Stadium,it's actual construction cost was €120,the land cost was extra.

For €110m PuC is a 1970's style stadium with no Hawkeye.

When the Italians with their attendant "overheads" make you look wasteful,you know your in trouble
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 04, 2020, 10:12:46 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 04, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on March 04, 2020, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 03, 2020, 11:47:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 03, 2020, 11:45:35 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 03, 2020, 11:20:48 PM
What was the 15mill spent on at Thurles?

Actually the total upgrade cost €18m done in 2 tranches starting in the late naughties

And what was it spent on?

I'm open to correction, but I believe the bulk went on the roof over the main stand, which is the side where the TV cameras are based. If that is the case, I always felts it looked like a pretty poor return for such an investment.

Of course it was a poor return on the investment just like every other recent development by the GAA. Either Irish builders are crap or there is a huge amount of creaming off by people with these developments

Pairc ui Chaoimh cost AT LEAST 110million and what do you have one nice stand and 3 other sides that look almost identical to the ones that were just knocked down and they looked f**king dated when they were first built in the seventies

Its like spot the difference

(https://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/p/PaircUiChaoimh2Jul14_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-678048)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKqfBW7W0AAc8Ay.jpg)

Cant be bothered finding a 110 million development in UK or Europe but off the top of my head here is the Juventus stadium redeveloped at the same time for 150 million. Now to me thats a massive difference in quality for 40 million.

(https://www.commercialriskonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0_Juventus-stadium-2.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ezXVuW0AQyrsT.jpg)

It was the same with McHale that new stand was built at the same time for the same capacity for the same money as the new Leicester rugby stand.

(https://i2.wp.com/mayoclub51.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/machale-park-seating-plan-stand.jpg?ssl=1)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/y7kYawqhWdlF65RPAw0sEXb30mcpSpNvws9cIF9L0UFUf8OKtzKJx_jvE8-IN6iIiu7008f6oXkAUU6sAs3Xk2iYosY)

Like ffs the one at Castlebar has posts holding up the roof

Bit of a pattern going on - something seriously dodgy

For the ones talking about pumping the money into Clones could you imagine the state of the cow shed they would build costing something ridiculous.


Was just going to mention the Juventus Stadium,it's actual construction cost was €120,the land cost was extra.

For €110m PuC is a 1970's style stadium with no Hawkeye.

When the Italians with their attendant "overheads" make you look wasteful,you know your in trouble

Ach sure incompetence reigns North and South. It's always been that way.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: five points on March 04, 2020, 11:32:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.

Regardless of whether that were true - and I'm not in any way agreeing with you that the majority think it should be built as was intended....


That does not counter the point. Basically your post wants folks to surrender their own thoughts on the matter and not just align with thoughts of someone else's choosing, but support it, despite their own contrary opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The £62m has already been agreed so that is already sorted - no one should have further say in it as it was agreed by Stormont in the same way the amount was agreed for the other stadia.

The £33m is absolutely a sticking point and I for one think the GAA should change the size of the project so that £33m isnt needed regardless of where it comes from.

I dont believe Stormont should be paying anything over and above the £62m
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The vast majority do stump up for Croke every week, they go to games, through the gate and through their club association and other things Croke gets plenty to pay for things
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The £62m has already been agreed so that is already sorted - no one should have further say in it as it was agreed by Stormont in the same way the amount was agreed for the other stadia.

The £33m is absolutely a sticking point and I for one think the GAA should change the size of the project so that £33m isnt needed regardless of where it comes from.

I dont believe Stormont should be paying anything over and above the £62m
What I meant was, the taxpayer should have a say in the request for extra £33m (or any other figure in excess of the agreed funding), in which case, this taxpayer is saying "No".

Agree completely with the rest of your post.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The vast majority do stump up for Croke every week, they go to games, through the gate and through their club association and other things Croke gets plenty to pay for things
I'm not sure what you mean. By "Croke", do you mean the GAA? If so, the GAA also receives other regular funding from both governments, in recognition of all the other things the Association does. Same for football and rugby too.

But Casement is a separate, stand-alone project, with the funding of it separate and stand-alone from normal, annual budgets etc.

On which point, the three codes have each received an allocation which, whilst uneven, most would accept as being fair and proportionate.

That being so, if the other two codes could get on with it and complete their chosen project within their allocated budget, why cannot the GAA do likewise?

More importantly, why should the GAA get extra funding just because they've screwed up their own project? Why reward failure, incompetence and hubris?

If there is extra money available (there's not), surely it should go to the two other codes for managing their affairs properly or, better still, to other sports which do not receive anything like these sums eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51725152 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51725152)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The £62m has already been agreed so that is already sorted - no one should have further say in it as it was agreed by Stormont in the same way the amount was agreed for the other stadia.

The £33m is absolutely a sticking point and I for one think the GAA should change the size of the project so that £33m isnt needed regardless of where it comes from.

I dont believe Stormont should be paying anything over and above the £62m
What I meant was, the taxpayer should have a say in the request for extra £33m (or any other figure in excess of the agreed funding), in which case, this taxpayer is saying "No".

Agree completely with the rest of your post.

Got it - thought you meant a say in the £62m.

In reality though, given the shitstorm coming with Corona and given the limitations in what Stormont assumed the british government were giving and what is actually coming I would think there is little to no chance of any extra money being given.

Means the two options left are change the size of Casement or the GAA pays the additional money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 04, 2020, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The £62m has already been agreed so that is already sorted - no one should have further say in it as it was agreed by Stormont in the same way the amount was agreed for the other stadia.

The £33m is absolutely a sticking point and I for one think the GAA should change the size of the project so that £33m isnt needed regardless of where it comes from.

I dont believe Stormont should be paying anything over and above the £62m
What I meant was, the taxpayer should have a say in the request for extra £33m (or any other figure in excess of the agreed funding), in which case, this taxpayer is saying "No".

Agree completely with the rest of your post.

Got it - thought you meant a say in the £62m.

In reality though, given the shitstorm coming with Corona and given the limitations in what Stormont assumed the british government were giving and what is actually coming I would think there is little to no chance of any extra money being given.

Means the two options left are change the size of Casement or the GAA pays the additional money.

Strangely this may be the cheapest and best option for the GAA.

Submitting yet another plan for a stadium of reduced capacity with estimated build costs of £77M will probably take another two years to complete and pass all the approvals needed and by that stage there'll be an overrun in costs which the GAA will end up picking up anyway and you're left with an inferior stadium.

Funnel some of the money made from selling off part of Clonliffe College to Casement shouldn't hurt the coffers too much..

I think I speak for everyone in the world on this, including gaels of all tribes especially those in Newtownards.     :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2020, 02:50:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2020, 02:03:58 PM
Means the two options left are change the size of Casement or the GAA pays the additional money.

Strangely this may be the cheapest and best option for the GAA.

Submitting yet another plan for a stadium of reduced capacity with estimated build costs of £77M will probably take another two years to complete and pass all the approvals needed and by that stage there'll be an overrun in costs which the GAA will end up picking up anyway and you're left with an inferior stadium.
"Cheapest and Best"?

First, does the GAA have another £33m to add to their existing £15m?
Second, is there any guarantee that by the time it's built, it won't have overrun some more i.e. £48m from the GAA and £62m from Stormont might still not be enough?
Third, the GAA still hasn't received regulatory approval for their second (reduced) submission, never mind the original 40k/£77m plan.

Unless or until they can get round this last, then their only other alternative is to go back to the drawing board (literally) and come up with something more modest which is both feasible and affordable.

Otherwise they're only going to fall prey to this:
https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/resources/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/sunk-cost-fallacy/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sekibanki on March 04, 2020, 03:15:30 PM
Could get rid of the fancy roof, or sell naming rights?

There are options, but a third redesign would consume even more cash, which doesn't make much sense if it goes hand-in hand with a capacity reduction. You'd be paying more for less seats and spent so much on repeated design and consultancy that you could build another stadium.

Another cost cutting option could be converting the seated stands to terracing, but given this would actually increase capacity, so is probably out because of safety reasons.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 04:44:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.
What, and other sports and leisure activities don't?

Or maybe they've already got all the money they want or need?

But yeah, you're right, in fact why stop at a measly £30m or £40m (in addition to the paltry £62m already pledged)?

I mean, never mind schools and hospitals and the like, the GAA already provides far more to the well being of everyones life in NI.

Well everyone on one community anyway....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 04, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.


That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.


That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

I think the Stormont gov will step in. It's an easy win for them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 05:12:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.


That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

I think the Stormont gov will step in. It's an easy win for them.
Excuse me, but is there some sort of parallel universe which has another Stormont I've not yet seen?

The finance minister has said the NI Executive faces a shortfall of £600m trying to meet the demands of Stormont departments.

This is even without the added strain of commitments made in the New Decade New Approach document.

Conor Murphy confirmed the Stormont budget had been postponed until the end of March, after the Westminster budget has been delivered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51620778 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51620778)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I'm no expert on this and a lot of you are a lot smarter than me (well i'm prob bottom of the class here) but some of the opinion's people are giving on what the GAA should and should not do is bewildering. The big shortfall has come because of the delays and redesigns with extra fee's, delays in all contracts are huge fee's...some will argue the delays are the GAA's fault for not having the design done properly etc etc. The GAA will blame the Government for turning them down blah blah, either way there are delays and delays cost big money so the sooner something happens the better whatever the decision and who comes up with the extra cash is anyone's guess but one thing that can't happen is another proposal declined and back to the design team and the costs just escalate further.

The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2020, 08:21:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:41:36 PM
I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.
I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The vast majority do stump up for Croke every week, they go to games, through the gate and through their club association and other things Croke gets plenty to pay for things
I'm not sure what you mean. By "Croke", do you mean the GAA? If so, the GAA also receives other regular funding from both governments, in recognition of all the other things the Association does. Same for football and rugby too.

But Casement is a separate, stand-alone project, with the funding of it separate and stand-alone from normal, annual budgets etc.

On which point, the three codes have each received an allocation which, whilst uneven, most would accept as being fair and proportionate.

That being so, if the other two codes could get on with it and complete their chosen project within their allocated budget, why cannot the GAA do likewise?

More importantly, why should the GAA get extra funding just because they've screwed up their own project? Why reward failure, incompetence and hubris?

If there is extra money available (there's not), surely it should go to the two other codes for managing their affairs properly or, better still, to other sports which do not receive anything like these sums eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51725152 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51725152)

My point is that there is, should be money there in Croke Park/GAA, they have to stump up the additional money or find less money for a smaller size stadium due to the cluster f**k that is Casement project!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:58:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 04, 2020, 05:12:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 03:53:07 PM
The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.


That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

I think the Stormont gov will step in. It's an easy win for them.
Excuse me, but is there some sort of parallel universe which has another Stormont I've not yet seen?

The finance minister has said the NI Executive faces a shortfall of £600m trying to meet the demands of Stormont departments.

This is even without the added strain of commitments made in the New Decade New Approach document.

Conor Murphy confirmed the Stormont budget had been postponed until the end of March, after the Westminster budget has been delivered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51620778 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51620778)

There's loads of money for two parallel education systems. Social housing separated for Catholics and Protestants. Money for Invest Belfast. Money for ridiculous support schemes. There was money for Windsor and Kingspan. The biggest sporting organisation is entitled to its share from the tax coffers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 04, 2020, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I'm no expert of this and a lot of you are a lot smarter than me (well i'm prob bottom of the class here) but some of the opinion's people are giving on what the GAA should and should not do is bewildering. The big shortfall has come because of the delays and redesigns with extra fee's, delays in all contracts are huge fee's...some will argue the delays are the GAA's fault for not having the design done properly etc etc. The GAA will blame the Government for turning them down blah blah, either way there are delays and delays cost big money so the sooner something happens the better whatever the decision and who comes up with the extra cash is anyone's guess but one thing that can't happen is another proposal declined and back to the design team and the costs just escalate further.

The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
Say the current proposal is passed (which is by no means a given and you can guarantee an objection from residents leading to further delays) and there is no means of making up the £33m deficit. Where does that leave us?

Screwed...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 10:35:06 PM
Putting money into Casement makes sense, no matter the cost. It'll be spunked on some other arsehole project that delivers nothing. See A5. Build the f**king thing and be done with it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on March 05, 2020, 07:45:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2020, 04:03:19 PM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on March 03, 2020, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2020, 01:53:20 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 02, 2020, 08:45:05 PM
There's no money for it.
There's no room for it.
There's no need for it.
It's gone on too long.
It has seen Antrim's greatest monetary asset removed from them.
It has left us with no county ground.

There is money and plenty of it. The longer it delays the more it will cost. Sooner it is built the cheaper it'll be.
There's no room for it. ? Doesn't make sense
There is of course a need. There's not a decent GAA stadium in the North capable of hold USFC SF & Finals.
Yes it's gone on too long, more reason to get it done.
Antrim gave it up
And your solution to having no county ground is not to build one?

If we took this attitude to everything nothing would ever be built. Everything has a cost. Sometimes the cost isn't relevant.
Bullshit

Well you did give it up quite easily as the Ulster Council had your CB mesmerised by the bright and shiny new things on offer.
Which is true. As part of the deal with Stormont it was the Ulster Council who were to manage the project in the same way as the IFA and the Ulster branch of the IRFU managed the rebuild of Windsor Park and Ravenhill.

Ulster Council ran roughshod over residents concerns etc. with their plans for a 38,000 stadium in West Belfast.

The management of the project was taken out of the hands of the Antrim County Board who at the same time were responsible for letting the safety certificate expire as they went hook line and sinker for what Ulster Council were promising so they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory either.

Antrim were pressurised by Ulster to sign over the deeds of the stadium which they flatly refused to do.

With no safety certificate from the Belfast City Council the doors were closed to sporting events and as a result the stadium has fallen into a state of disrepair which is a pity because it was one of the finest hurling surfaces in Ireland
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on March 05, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 05, 2020, 08:57:39 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 05, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture

I think some people are looking at this the wrong way. It's not a case of the GAA get to decide their perfect capacity, pick the perfect site they want to go with, get all the money they need funded by the government and then in Trailer's words "Just get it built". I mean it's just nonsense!! Your striping away all outside influences to try and simplify a process that is anything but. It's not just a case of what the GAA want. There's much more to consider than that. And this is coming from someone who would have loved to see Casement taking on a few Ulster finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 05, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture

I get the argument that it was a choice between replacing Clones or a moderate sized stadium for Antrim. But the GAA decided that they had to wave their cocks too. Rugby and soccer 18k each? We will go 40. Doesn't fit? Plough on regardless, fcuk the locals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I'm no expert on this and a lot of you are a lot smarter than me (well i'm prob bottom of the class here) but some of the opinion's people are giving on what the GAA should and should not do is bewildering. The big shortfall has come because of the delays and redesigns with extra fee's, delays in all contracts are huge fee's...some will argue the delays are the GAA's fault for not having the design done properly etc etc. The GAA will blame the Government for turning them down blah blah, either way there are delays and delays cost big money so the sooner something happens the better whatever the decision and who comes up with the extra cash is anyone's guess but one thing that can't happen is another proposal declined and back to the design team and the costs just escalate further.

The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
The GAA's agreed funding of £61m was no bigger than the IFA's £61m.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:54:29 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 05, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture

I get the argument that it was a choice between replacing Clones or a moderate sized stadium for Antrim. But the GAA decided that they had to wave their cocks too. Rugby and soccer 18k each? We will go 40. Doesn't fit? Plough on regardless, fcuk the locals.

You see it wasn't a choice between Clones and Casement. That's just a complete lie.

Can someone explain to me where you could watch an USFC final in lovely modern stadium that is fitting for me to take my family to, so we can watch in comfort?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 12:55:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:54:29 AM
Can someone explain to me where you could watch an USFC final in lovely modern stadium that is fitting for me to take my family to, so we can watch in comfort?

Is there a body of evidence available somewhere that indicates USFC finals are poorly attended because the stadium is not lovely enough, modern enough or comfortable enough?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sekibanki on March 05, 2020, 06:33:45 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 05, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture

I get the argument that it was a choice between replacing Clones or a moderate sized stadium for Antrim. But the GAA decided that they had to wave their cocks too. Rugby and soccer 18k each? We will go 40. Doesn't fit? Plough on regardless, fcuk the locals.

The fact that Ulster Rugby and the Northern Ireland "national" soccer team play their games in stadia with a lower capacity than the Athletic Grounds tells its own story about sport in the wee six.

In any case, there's a huge amount of support in the local area for it. But as ever, it the most negative voices are heard the loudest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 05, 2020, 07:01:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I'm no expert on this and a lot of you are a lot smarter than me (well i'm prob bottom of the class here) but some of the opinion's people are giving on what the GAA should and should not do is bewildering. The big shortfall has come because of the delays and redesigns with extra fee's, delays in all contracts are huge fee's...some will argue the delays are the GAA's fault for not having the design done properly etc etc. The GAA will blame the Government for turning them down blah blah, either way there are delays and delays cost big money so the sooner something happens the better whatever the decision and who comes up with the extra cash is anyone's guess but one thing that can't happen is another proposal declined and back to the design team and the costs just escalate further.

The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
The GAA's agreed funding of £61m was no bigger than the IFA's £61m.

Well then...there's a shock for me. Wasn't aware of that, good spot MS. Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 05, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
The GAA's agreed funding of £61m was no bigger than the IFA's £61m.
I think you're conflating two separate, though related, funding schemes MS.

The first was the Provincial Stadium funding for the three codes, effectively using the money which was intended for the shared stadium at the Maze. Under this, the GAA was allocated £62m, the IFA was allocated approx £28m for Windsor (plus a £5m contribution of their own) and Ulster Rugby got £15m (or thereabouts). This deal was effectively the work of lobbying within Stormont by Nelson McCausland and Barry McElduff, though Caral Ni Chuilin was Sports Minister (I think) by the time it was finalised.

The second scheme was a Regional Stadium Programme for football to improve stadium facilities at Irish League and Intermediate level (artificial pitches, changing facilities, disabled access etc), which was to follow after the above Provincial Stadium plan. I can't find an exact figure for this programme, but I think it was something north of £30m. The bulk of this money was to go to redeveloping The Oval/Glentoran and The Brandywell/Derry City at around £10m each, with the remainder open to applications by a range of other clubs.
Afaik, many football clubs were unhappy with the split, esp the way two clubs were favoured over the rest. I cannot comment on why it was done this way, but I would point out that The Oval is in the East Belfast constituency of the then First Minister Peter Robinson, with The Brandywell in that of the then Deputy First Minister, the late Martin McGuinness. Make of that what you will.  ::)

But while this had been agreed in 2015, none of it has yet been implemented due to the collapse of Stormont. With the present financial stringencies at Stormont, I personally am not confident that this money will still now be available, at least in full, but that's only my guess. In any case, it will be the responsibility of Deirdre Hargey, as the Executive Minister at the Department of Communities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 05, 2020, 10:42:37 PM
Quote from: sekibanki on March 05, 2020, 06:33:45 PM
The fact that Ulster Rugby and the Northern Ireland "national" soccer team play their games in stadia with a lower capacity than the Athletic Grounds tells its own story about sport in the wee six.
Can't speak for rugby, but as regards football, it tells a story of the small-minded and unambitious people than in charge at the IFA.
When the scheme was first proposed, the NI team was at an historically low ebb, with crowds falling after a dreadful run of results. In addition Linfield, who still own the Freehold to the site, wanted a smaller rather than larger stadium, to suit their own needs. The IFA also undertook a marketing process/decision which urged a low capacity, high ticket price capacity.

Had the decision makers taken a more circumspect, long-term view, they'd have anticipated that the NI team was likely only at the bottom of the usual results cycle, as proved to be the case. So that with the appointment of Michael O'Neill, results improved and the crowds came back, as proven eg by the fact that we took over 20k fans to France for the 2016 Euro Finals!
Another thing the IFA underestimated was the 'new stadium effect', whereby people who would not attend when Windsor was a bit of a dump, esp women, children and families, were encouraged to attend when they could enjoy modern facilities and comfort etc.
Finally, the IFA's "Football For All" programme has been very successful in transforming the whole atmosphere at NI games from the bad old days when sectarianism blighted the game, meaning that people who were formerly "turned off" were encouraged to give it another try.

As a long time supporter who remembers huge crowds in the past (eg 40k vs Israel in 1980), imo the new stadium should have accommodated 25k as a minimum, though I personally would have gone for as many as 35k, were that possible, since I have no doubt that with reasonable results, good facilities and proper ticketing and promotion, we could fill the stadium, for the big games at least.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if that has any lessons for Casement, so I'm sorry for dragging things off topic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 05, 2020, 11:12:30 PM
In my last post-but-one (Regional Stadium Programme), I might have provided some context as to why football is/was to be allocated this extra funding.

Following the Hillsborough Disaster, the subsequent Taylor Report brought in huge changes to how Football Stadia were built, designed, managed and maintained etc, including making the biggest stadia all-seater. There were also major H&S requirements eg stewarding, policing, segregation and alcohol bans. All of this cost huge sums and although this coincided with the huge rise in TV money, that only covered 20 out of the 92 league clubs in England, and none in Scotland or Wales

Anyhow, Westminster eventually allocated large sums to help clubs make the necessary changes, but this only applied to GB. Consequently, it was agreed that money should also be made available by Stormont to assist and implement the equivalent changes in NI, where stadia were already in a poor state, hence the Regional Programme.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 06, 2020, 09:46:45 AM
Quote from: sekibanki on March 05, 2020, 06:33:45 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 05, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:44 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .
Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture

I get the argument that it was a choice between replacing Clones or a moderate sized stadium for Antrim. But the GAA decided that they had to wave their cocks too. Rugby and soccer 18k each? We will go 40. Doesn't fit? Plough on regardless, fcuk the locals.

The fact that Ulster Rugby and the Northern Ireland "national" soccer team play their games in stadia with a lower capacity than the Athletic Grounds tells its own story about sport in the wee six.

In any case, there's a huge amount of support in the local area for it. But as ever, it the most negative voices are heard the loudest.

I don't think it tells the story you think it does.

And there is a huge amount of gra for the GAA in D3. They just don't say it. Ever.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 06, 2020, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 05, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
The GAA's agreed funding of £61m was no bigger than the IFA's £61m.
I think you're conflating two separate, though related, funding schemes MS.
Not really, the 138m funding package was finally agreed upon and announced  in 2011. There was only one total package of £138m,
GAA £61m IFA £61m UR £15m . How the IFA spent planned to spend their portion was also agreed upon by Stormont in the same announcement.
As mentioned earlier, the GAA focussed on the Casement project. The IFA planned to fund a serious upgrade of Linfield's WP, a training centre and various other stadium projects.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 06, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2020, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 05, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
The GAA's agreed funding of £61m was no bigger than the IFA's £61m.
I think you're conflating two separate, though related, funding schemes MS.
Not really, the 138m funding package was finally agreed upon and announced  in 2011. There was only one total package of £138m,
GAA £61m IFA £61m UR £15m . How the IFA spent planned to spend their portion was also agreed upon by Stormont in the same announcement.
As mentioned earlier, the GAA focussed on the Casement project. The IFA planned to fund a serious upgrade of Linfield's WP, a training centre and various other stadium projects.
It may all have been announced at the one time, but I'm pretty sure that the IFA's £61m was made up in two separate parts, otherwise why would Stormont have delayed the disbursement of the Regional money until after the Windsor/Ravenhill/Casement funding?

I seem to recall that the second (i.e. non-Windsor) part of the IFA's grant was an extension to NI of the "Taylor Money" which had already been allocated to football in GB. I mean, it effectively all came from Westminster in the first place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 06, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 06, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2020, 10:04:38 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 05, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2020, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2020, 07:04:19 PM
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.
The GAA's agreed funding of £61m was no bigger than the IFA's £61m.
I think you're conflating two separate, though related, funding schemes MS.
Not really, the 138m funding package was finally agreed upon and announced  in 2011. There was only one total package of £138m,
GAA £61m IFA £61m UR £15m . How the IFA spent planned to spend their portion was also agreed upon by Stormont in the same announcement.
As mentioned earlier, the GAA focussed on the Casement project. The IFA planned to fund a serious upgrade of Linfield's WP, a training centre and various other stadium projects.
It may all have been announced at the one time, but I'm pretty sure that the IFA's £61m was made up in two separate parts, otherwise why would Stormont have delayed the disbursement of the Regional money until after the Windsor/Ravenhill/Casement funding?

I seem to recall that the second (i.e. non-Windsor) part of the IFA's grant was an extension to NI of the "Taylor Money" which had already been allocated to football in GB. I mean, it effectively all came from Westminster in the first place.
Faulty argument.   There is absolutely no doubt that there was one grant of £61m to the IFA which the IFA chose to spend according to their dictates and all this was agreed in 2011.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/three-cheers-for-stadium-funding-announcement-28598468.html
(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/three-cheers-for-stadium-funding-announcement-28598468.html)
The second part of the 61m was released after the IFA and Linfield came to a legal agreeement.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17130404 (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17130404)

'Linfield will own the ground while the IFA will manage the stadium under the contract, which it is believed is nearing agreement.
The move will release a secondary pot of £31m, millions of which will be directed towards a redevelopment of Derry City's Brandywell stadium and also a new stadium for Glentoran.
A significant sum has also been earmarked for a national academy.'


Here is the official hansard report debate at Stormont which the IFA participated in
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/official-report/committee-minutes-of-evidence/session-2011-2012/june-2011/stadia-development-irish-football-association/ (http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/official-report/committee-minutes-of-evidence/session-2011-2012/june-2011/stadia-development-irish-football-association/)

Please read the submission by Mr Patrick Nelson (IFA)

which includes the following quote
"Mick Cory mentioned that there was an NI Executive decision on 10 March about capital funding. The road to that point was a long one, and there were many false dawns along the way, but we were absolutely delighted that the Executive agreed funding for the national stadium redevelopment project and the subregional stadia project."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 07, 2020, 01:13:07 PM
That's the stuff Main Street...you tell him ;).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 08, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
Faulty argument.   There is absolutely no doubt that there was one grant of £61m to the IFA which the IFA chose to spend according to their dictates and all this was agreed in 2011.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/three-cheers-for-stadium-funding-announcement-28598468.html
(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/three-cheers-for-stadium-funding-announcement-28598468.html)
The second part of the 61m was released after the IFA and Linfield came to a legal agreeement.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17130404 (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17130404)

'Linfield will own the ground while the IFA will manage the stadium under the contract, which it is believed is nearing agreement.
The move will release a secondary pot of £31m, millions of which will be directed towards a redevelopment of Derry City's Brandywell stadium and also a new stadium for Glentoran.
A significant sum has also been earmarked for a national academy.'


Here is the official hansard report debate at Stormont which the IFA participated in
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/official-report/committee-minutes-of-evidence/session-2011-2012/june-2011/stadia-development-irish-football-association/ (http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/official-report/committee-minutes-of-evidence/session-2011-2012/june-2011/stadia-development-irish-football-association/)

Please read the submission by Mr Patrick Nelson (IFA)

which includes the following quote
"Mick Cory mentioned that there was an NI Executive decision on 10 March about capital funding. The road to that point was a long one, and there were many false dawns along the way, but we were absolutely delighted that the Executive agreed funding for the national stadium redevelopment project and the subregional stadia project."

Re. the agreement with Linfield, that is not relevant to our debate, since it was a legal/technical argument about ownership of the land and stadium etc which had to be settled before Stormont would release the money to the IFA to redevelop Windsor.

As for the rest, your Hansard link actually reinforces my case that the sub-regional money was separate from the provincial (i.e. Windsor) money. For as IFA CEO Patrick Nelson remarked:
"Finally, we have worked a lot on safe stadia over the past few years and believe that there is still a little more work to do in that respect. Therefore, the funding that goes outside the national stadium will focus on some of those matters."

The emphasis on safe stadia clearly indicates that this second tranche of funding was recognition that NI had been left behind GB when it came to HMG funding football stadium safety improvements following Hillsborough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 09, 2020, 12:11:17 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 08, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2020, 07:25:10 PM
Faulty argument.   There is absolutely no doubt that there was one grant of £61m to the IFA which the IFA chose to spend according to their dictates and all this was agreed in 2011.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/three-cheers-for-stadium-funding-announcement-28598468.html
(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/three-cheers-for-stadium-funding-announcement-28598468.html)
The second part of the 61m was released after the IFA and Linfield came to a legal agreeement.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17130404 (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/17130404)

'Linfield will own the ground while the IFA will manage the stadium under the contract, which it is believed is nearing agreement.
The move will release a secondary pot of £31m, millions of which will be directed towards a redevelopment of Derry City's Brandywell stadium and also a new stadium for Glentoran.
A significant sum has also been earmarked for a national academy.'


Here is the official hansard report debate at Stormont which the IFA participated in
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/official-report/committee-minutes-of-evidence/session-2011-2012/june-2011/stadia-development-irish-football-association/ (http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/assembly-business/official-report/committee-minutes-of-evidence/session-2011-2012/june-2011/stadia-development-irish-football-association/)

Please read the submission by Mr Patrick Nelson (IFA)

which includes the following quote
"Mick Cory mentioned that there was an NI Executive decision on 10 March about capital funding. The road to that point was a long one, and there were many false dawns along the way, but we were absolutely delighted that the Executive agreed funding for the national stadium redevelopment project and the subregional stadia project."

Re. the agreement with Linfield, that is not relevant to our debate, since it was a legal/technical argument about ownership of the land and stadium etc which had to be settled before Stormont would release the money to the IFA to redevelop Windsor.

As for the rest, your Hansard link actually reinforces my case that the sub-regional money was separate from the provincial (i.e. Windsor) money. For as IFA CEO Patrick Nelson remarked:
"Finally, we have worked a lot on safe stadia over the past few years and believe that there is still a little more work to do in that respect. Therefore, the funding that goes outside the national stadium will focus on some of those matters."

The emphasis on safe stadia clearly indicates that this second tranche of funding was recognition that NI had been left behind GB when it came to HMG funding football stadium safety improvements following Hillsborough.
Change your name to Evil Waffle ;D
You need to actually provide independent support for an argument, you don't even have an argument, just contrary waffle.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on March 09, 2020, 12:53:25 PM
surely all club staiums in IOreland are safe . seeing as there is never anyone at the matches
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: passedit on October 13, 2020, 11:10:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54522088 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54522088)
Casement Park: Nichola Mallon to recommend approval

   
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1203F/production/_110519737__92066123_casement_remake_aerial-cfadjust.jpg)


Nichola Mallon has said she is recommending approval for the long-awaited redevelopment of Casement Park.

The infrastructure minister she had "carefully considered" all of the representations and that it had been a "complex application".

She said it would transform Gaelic games and the economy of west Belfast.

"I believe it will be truly transformational in sporting terms and economic terms for the whole of Ulster", she said.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: downjim on October 13, 2020, 11:17:38 AM
The SDLP taking credit for work of Sinn Fein again
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on October 13, 2020, 11:18:17 AM
So it that it -  the builders can move in and start or are there more hoops to jump through / appeals that can be lodged?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 13, 2020, 11:52:43 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 11:47:32 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on October 13, 2020, 11:18:17 AM
So it that it -  the builders can move in and start or are there more hoops to jump through / appeals that can be lodged?
I suppose it depends - is the granting of planning permission by the SDLP minister lawful this time?

How do the residents feel HS? Are they happy with the amendments? I read 95% are happy, but is that factual?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
So what has changed in terms of capacity/safety proposals or have the locals palms been greased??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 11:55:46 AM
Good decision for CLG.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
So what has changed in terms of capacity/safety proposals or have the locals palms been greased??
What brings you to the 2nd part? What have you heard?

Something must have give?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
So what has changed in terms of capacity/safety proposals or have the locals palms been greased??

The new stadium has a proposed capacity of 34,186 - down from the GAA's original plan of 38,000.

The GAA said height, scale and capacity were all reduced from the previous design and that it was aiming to work within the original budget of £76m.

Ulster GAA said it had received 95% approval from about 3,000 people who responded to the stadium consultation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 12:02:40 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
So what has changed in terms of capacity/safety proposals or have the locals palms been greased??

The new stadium has a proposed capacity of 34,186 - down from the GAA's original plan of 38,000.

The GAA said height, scale and capacity were all reduced from the previous design and that it was aiming to work within the original budget of £76m.

Ulster GAA said it had received 95% approval from about 3,000 people who responded to the stadium consultation.

Thanks do you know what changes were made to height from original??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 12:03:54 PM
No - but I don't think it went up the way!! ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
So what has changed in terms of capacity/safety proposals or have the locals palms been greased??
What brings you to the 2nd part? What have you heard?

Something must have give?
Sounds like you're throwing mud tbh.

I don't think "locals" need to be necessarily on side for this decision to be taken. Mark H Durkan made this exact decision before, unlawfully. "Locals" went to court over it.
The same people could still be against this decision.

Although, I don't know if they are or not.

HS I was in full support of the locals as I did think they were railroaded by the original plans and I felt they were duped. I know a few who felt that if original plans were to proceed they would expect to be compensated. Thats why i asked were there adequate changes made to the plans.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyroneman on October 13, 2020, 12:28:42 PM
So are there any legal avenues left for residents to object and halt proceedings, or are those options now closed and sin é?

There have been so many false starts it's difficult to know if this is the 100% green light or not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
I see there was over 1000 objections.

Would these be all locals around the venue or could anybody, if they wanted, put in a written objection?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 06:11:14 PM
I would say there's likely some bitter unionists in there too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 13, 2020, 06:18:58 PM
Could it end up like the A5 upgrade and be subject to judicial review for another 5 years? I think most reasonable people would like to see something built but imo the current proposals are still too big.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
I see there was over 1000 objections.

Would these be all locals around the venue or could anybody, if they wanted, put in a written objection?

Normally, anyone can object, and yet get cranks objecting to everything or objecting to pursue some objective.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on October 13, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
Great news!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
I see there was over 1000 objections.

Would these be all locals around the venue or could anybody, if they wanted, put in a written objection?

Normally, anyone can object, and yet get cranks objecting to everything or objecting to pursue some objective.

Would they not have to put a name and address on it and then be cross referenced in some way.

If not correct, it should be put in the bin.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
I see there was over 1000 objections.

Would these be all locals around the venue or could anybody, if they wanted, put in a written objection?

Normally, anyone can object, and yet get cranks objecting to everything or objecting to pursue some objective.

Would they not have to put a name and address on it and then be cross referenced in some way.

If not correct, it should be put in the bin.

Somebody from Derry writes in and states that the stadium has inadequate public transport access, this is fair comment to some extent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 06:52:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 13, 2020, 05:15:17 PM
I see there was over 1000 objections.

Would these be all locals around the venue or could anybody, if they wanted, put in a written objection?

Normally, anyone can object, and yet get cranks objecting to everything or objecting to pursue some objective.

Would they not have to put a name and address on it and then be cross referenced in some way.

If not correct, it should be put in the bin.

Somebody from Derry writes in and states that the stadium has inadequate public transport access, this is fair comment to some extent.

But is that anything to do with the stadium?

Could I complain there's not a Eddie Rockett's near by and would it be valid?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 08:01:28 PM
I think it should be built on the old Maze site.  Has this been discussed yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 13, 2020, 08:28:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 08:01:28 PM
I think it should be built on the old Maze site.  Has this been discussed yet?

That sounds like a grest idea maybe have a museum at one if the H blocks too. Almost certain to happen nice one ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on October 13, 2020, 09:42:01 PM
Great news!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on October 14, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 08:01:28 PM
I think it should be built on the old Maze site.  Has this been discussed yet?
.What about that Long Kesh site? even better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 14, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 08:01:28 PM
I think it should be built on the old Maze site.  Has this been discussed yet?
.What about that Long Kesh site? even better.

If they could just upgrade Clones then that would work
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on October 14, 2020, 09:15:29 AM
I can see you running out to referee the first big match in  a new Casement MR, wee bandy legs and all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 12:34:01 PM
Some great memories from Casement - time to make new ones for the young ones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jimmy on October 14, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Still a bit off from seeing a game in Casement. Best case scenario, games will be there in 2023.

https://www.gaa.ie/news/hopes-high-casement-park-will-host-matches-in-2023/

Chairperson of the Casement Park Stadium Development Project Board, Tom Daly, hopes that GAA matches will return to the Belfast venue by the second half of 2023.

The decision by Northern Ireland's Infrastructure Minister, Nichola Mallon, to recommend planning approval for the redevelopment of the stadium has now made it possible to imagine what the timeline from approval to ribbon-cutting will look like.

There's still a journey to travel, but Daly is positive a very important step in the right direction has been taken.

"The Minister has announced her intention to provide notice to approve the project," he says. "It'll be about a week before we get the form of notification which will have attached to it planning conditions.

"We know there are going to be 55 planning conditions. For example, it will set the capacity at 34,578 and it will allude to a maximum of a three concerts per annum.

"A lot of the other planning conditions are related to environmental requirements. There's nothing there that we're concerned about, but we'll still have to study it.

"What happens then is it goes to Belfast City Council and then it has effect then after 28 days. We're then into a bit of a fallow period where we couldn't issue construction notice until we get past a number things.

"In addition to that, our planning design now has to be further developed with the contractor. So we'll have to do design development work in liaison with the planners with the builder's design team. That's a further detailed drawing stage which also helps pin down things in advance of us issuing a construction notice.

"That whole process of getting past certain windows for legal objections and sorting out the design process, we would see that with a fair wind we could be on site by the middle of next year.

"We would visualise it being a two year construction period. So, with a fair wind, we could see games taking place in that stadium in the latter half of 2023."


Daly believes that a redeveloped Casement Park will have a very positive impact in a variety of ways that will be felt for decades to come.

"First of all there's a universal feeling of satisfaction throughout Ulster that something that has been so much a part of the strategic plan of the Ulster Council and with a big Antrim involvement, but also fitting into the national strategic plan of at least one major stadium of modern standard in each province, is now closer to being achieved," he says.

"Among GAA people there will be a lot of satisfaction that has been achieved.

"It will mean an awful lot to people in Belfast and Antrim, particularly GAA people, because Casement Park has been historically very important to them and they haven't had it available to them for a protracted period of time.

"I suppose it's really a field of dreams for young people in Antrim and Ulster.

"The whole thing was founded and grounded in good will and a very positive attitude to doing something constructive that would boost the economy and boost sport and boost the whole profile of Ulster and Belfast in terms of the sporting heritage of the city.

"I think that ultimately is this is delivered, if you look at all the other big things that have happened in the space of civic projects around Belfast such as the Titanic centre and The MAC Arts centre and the work that has been done to give soccer and rugby what they asked for.

"If that is achieved for the GAA as well we'll have a city with very modern venues and sporting infrastructure that opens up all sorts of possibilities when those resources are combined with each other in terms of external events over the next 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:50:35 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on October 14, 2020, 07:38:21 PM
Still a bit off from seeing a game in Casement. Best case scenario, games will be there in 2023.

https://www.gaa.ie/news/hopes-high-casement-park-will-host-matches-in-2023/

Chairperson of the Casement Park Stadium Development Project Board, Tom Daly, hopes that GAA matches will return to the Belfast venue by the second half of 2023.

The decision by Northern Ireland's Infrastructure Minister, Nichola Mallon, to recommend planning approval for the redevelopment of the stadium has now made it possible to imagine what the timeline from approval to ribbon-cutting will look like.

There's still a journey to travel, but Daly is positive a very important step in the right direction has been taken.

"The Minister has announced her intention to provide notice to approve the project," he says. "It'll be about a week before we get the form of notification which will have attached to it planning conditions.

"We know there are going to be 55 planning conditions. For example, it will set the capacity at 34,578 and it will allude to a maximum of a three concerts per annum.

"A lot of the other planning conditions are related to environmental requirements. There's nothing there that we're concerned about, but we'll still have to study it.

"What happens then is it goes to Belfast City Council and then it has effect then after 28 days. We're then into a bit of a fallow period where we couldn't issue construction notice until we get past a number things.

"In addition to that, our planning design now has to be further developed with the contractor. So we'll have to do design development work in liaison with the planners with the builder's design team. That's a further detailed drawing stage which also helps pin down things in advance of us issuing a construction notice.

"That whole process of getting past certain windows for legal objections and sorting out the design process, we would see that with a fair wind we could be on site by the middle of next year.

"We would visualise it being a two year construction period. So, with a fair wind, we could see games taking place in that stadium in the latter half of 2023."


Daly believes that a redeveloped Casement Park will have a very positive impact in a variety of ways that will be felt for decades to come.

"First of all there's a universal feeling of satisfaction throughout Ulster that something that has been so much a part of the strategic plan of the Ulster Council and with a big Antrim involvement, but also fitting into the national strategic plan of at least one major stadium of modern standard in each province, is now closer to being achieved," he says.

"Among GAA people there will be a lot of satisfaction that has been achieved.

"It will mean an awful lot to people in Belfast and Antrim, particularly GAA people, because Casement Park has been historically very important to them and they haven't had it available to them for a protracted period of time.

"I suppose it's really a field of dreams for young people in Antrim and Ulster.

"The whole thing was founded and grounded in good will and a very positive attitude to doing something constructive that would boost the economy and boost sport and boost the whole profile of Ulster and Belfast in terms of the sporting heritage of the city.

"I think that ultimately is this is delivered, if you look at all the other big things that have happened in the space of civic projects around Belfast such as the Titanic centre and The MAC Arts centre and the work that has been done to give soccer and rugby what they asked for.

"If that is achieved for the GAA as well we'll have a city with very modern venues and sporting infrastructure that opens up all sorts of possibilities when those resources are combined with each other in terms of external events over the next 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years."
That is ok, gives Aontroim time to 'build' (!) and win the Ulster Hurling and Football Championship in the same year - 2024?  Once built, the rest  will follow.  This project is larger than local residents - sorry, but it is - and Ulster Gaels deserve to have Casement Park functional again.  Locals will still have a say and rights but imo they don't have a right any more to stop the whole development.  There is a greater good which also has rights.   Roger would approve!  Agus sin sin!  Fair play to  Comhairle Uladh for sticking at it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 08:49:22 AM
Quote from: bannside on October 14, 2020, 09:15:29 AM
I can see you running out to referee the first big match in  a new Casement MR, wee bandy legs and all.

They'll be well bandy before I get a run out!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 11:59:15 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2020, 10:29:12 AM
Interesting comments from Carál Ní Chuilín on The View. She's pretty adamant that the GAA will have to dip further into their pockets if the £33m shortfall is to be made up. I think this is the first time she's ever taken this position - previously saying that the executive would need to find the money.
The GAA have always been adamant that they aren't stumping up anymore dough.


Politicians being adamant !!  Being competent would be a bonus
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: skeog on October 25, 2020, 12:08:20 PM
Get Gerry back it would be sorted if he was still leader.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 25, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2020, 10:29:12 AM
Interesting comments from Carál Ní Chuilín on The View. She's pretty adamant that the GAA will have to dip further into their pockets if the £33m shortfall is to be made up. I think this is the first time she's ever taken this position - previously saying that the executive would need to find the money.
The GAA have always been adamant that they aren't stumping up anymore dough.

GAA will have to pay more I'd say. It's been a mess from the very start.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2020, 10:29:12 AM
Interesting comments from Carál Ní Chuilín on Sunday Politics. She's pretty adamant that the GAA will have to dip further into their pockets if the £33m shortfall is to be made up. I think this is the first time she's ever taken this position - previously saying that the executive would need to find the money.
The GAA have always been adamant that they aren't stumping up anymore dough.

Heard that as well and I think she was playing to the audience and knew where the line of questioning was going if she didn't say something along those lines.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 26, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
With income down by anything from €50m this year the GAA's pockets won't have much to spare for some time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2020, 10:29:12 AM
Interesting comments from Carál Ní Chuilín on Sunday Politics. She's pretty adamant that the GAA will have to dip further into their pockets if the £33m shortfall is to be made up. I think this is the first time she's ever taken this position - previously saying that the executive would need to find the money.
The GAA have always been adamant that they aren't stumping up anymore dough.

Heard that as well and I think she was playing to the audience and knew where the line of questioning was going if she didn't say something along those lines.
I think she could have avoided the questions without coming out with such a strong statement. "All avenues need to be explored in order to make up the shortfall, including the GAA." That would have sufficed. She has given the Unionists in the executive something to hold her to with the categorical statement she made.

Maybe she was right to say what she said? Maybe she was factually correct?

There will be room for a few pencils to be sharpened and the priced worked down from
£110m.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 10:01:02 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 09:56:40 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 25, 2020, 10:29:12 AM
Interesting comments from Carál Ní Chuilín on Sunday Politics. She's pretty adamant that the GAA will have to dip further into their pockets if the £33m shortfall is to be made up. I think this is the first time she's ever taken this position - previously saying that the executive would need to find the money.
The GAA have always been adamant that they aren't stumping up anymore dough.

Heard that as well and I think she was playing to the audience and knew where the line of questioning was going if she didn't say something along those lines.
I think she could have avoided the questions without coming out with such a strong statement. "All avenues need to be explored in order to make up the shortfall, including the GAA." That would have sufficed. She has given the Unionists in the executive something to hold her to with the categorical statement she made.

Maybe she was right to say what she said? Maybe she was factually correct?

There will be room for a few pencils to be sharpened and the priced worked down from
£110m.
Don't get me wrong, I do think she is right in what she said! I'm just saying that if it was merely an exercise in avoiding questions, as Johnny suggested, then she didn't handle it very well.

I wonder how could they cut costs on a project this size - £40 m or £50 m is a serious amount of money over a few years.

Why is it so high and what does the extra money involve?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 11:06:12 AM
Where will that extra Ulster council money come from? Coaching ? Honestly is the project worth it on that site? Sad state of affairs but I think it should been shifted years ago. Throwing good money after bad now
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on October 26, 2020, 11:37:33 AM
The money already spent is for a lot of things...Demolition, security etc but by far the biggest outlay by a Country mile will be to the Principal Contractor who was appointed to do the job. A Contract would have been signed at the time and that Contractor would have hired staff and plant etc to do the job and they will have been getting money under that contract as a CE (Compensation Event). For how long I don't know and what Contract the job is under depends on the CE. If its a NEC Contract which i suspect it is that Contractor will not be out any cost that's for sure and he'll have been getting paid and covered for any expense he may have occurred.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 26, 2020, 11:59:00 AM
Who's money was spent though? The initial funding or GAA money? Wasn't there legal issues with the social club? I'm sure that wasn't cheap
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 12:14:27 PM
If you take the emotion and nostalgia out of it and take a very hard nosed look at it , it is difficult not to conclude that it is the wrong project and one that fell down on some very basic consultation principles early on, from a distance (and I must admit I would not have the detail on the project) it had a wee bit of David V Goliath look about it. Im sure someone will correct me on that but its the impression I got.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 26, 2020, 01:35:28 PM
Do ye softies not want to stand on terraces?
Seriously folks ye're looking at a capacity of 2 ×5k stands and 2x 5k standing areas at this stage of the financial game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on October 26, 2020, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

100% Sine-é
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: delgany on October 26, 2020, 03:40:47 PM
I believe the short fall in money should lead to a phased redevelopment of the site. £78 million to get started and build as much of the stadium as planned, so that Ulster SFC can be played there. Phase 2 can be built when the money is available, to complete the add-ons etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on October 26, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

How many times per year would such a stadium be filled or nearly filled?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 26, 2020, 04:15:52 PM
If any ulster championship games are on maybe. Depends. Antrim games wouldn't fill it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 26, 2020, 04:19:27 PM
Yeah. Casement is no longer ours.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

How many times per year would such a stadium be filled or nearly filled?

Casement would have had big numbers on many occasions when the big teams played there.. no reason why they won't be played there again. and with a view of getting a hurling and football quarterfinal you'll be looking at good gates.. Add in your concerts and the running of conferences and so on, it'll be used.

That's a management thing, it'll be a business at that point. It won't all be about the GAA, same as Croke... Corrigan which is nearly finished and hosted Westmeath at the weekend will be our Parnel park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

That logic is very flawed. The standing of a city is of no relevance if the stadium sits empty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

How many times per year would such a stadium be filled or nearly filled?

Casement would have had big numbers on many occasions when the big teams played there.. no reason why they won't be played there again. and with a view of getting a hurling and football quarterfinal you'll be looking at good gates.. Add in your concerts and the running of conferences and so on, it'll be used.

That's a management thing, it'll be a business at that point. It won't all be about the GAA, same as Croke... Corrigan which is nearly finished and hosted Westmeath at the weekend will be our Parnel park
I think a football quarter final is a stretch in itself but a hurling one?

Yes I know that's pushing it but, if Antrim keep the momentum they have and develop their game further they my be pushing for a quarter final before long, was the Wexford and Tipp games quarter finals?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 26, 2020, 04:41:43 PM
You mean a home quarter final not a neutral one? That'd hardly happen unless they treat us like Dublin which would be nice :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:42:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 26, 2020, 04:41:43 PM
You mean a home quarter final not a neutral one? That'd hardly happen unless they treat us like Dublin which would be nice :D

Sure we'd be a handy fixture for most teams  8)

Its an Ulster venue, not a home venue, that be Corrigan
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 04:55:37 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:45:34 PM
There's not a mission of any of those teams agreeing to come up and they'd be 100% right.
FFS Waterford can't even come up to our actual home games.

Good point  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:45:34 PM
There's not a mission of any of those teams agreeing to come up and they'd be 100% right.
FFS Waterford can't even come up to our actual home games.

But ok to have us head to Thurles or Galway?

The stadium will be earmarked for game's, Croke won't have it idle
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

How many times per year would such a stadium be filled or nearly filled?

Casement would have had big numbers on many occasions when the big teams played there.. no reason why they won't be played there again. and with a view of getting a hurling and football quarterfinal you'll be looking at good gates.. Add in your concerts and the running of conferences and so on, it'll be used.

That's a management thing, it'll be a business at that point. It won't all be about the GAA, same as Croke... Corrigan which is nearly finished and hosted Westmeath at the weekend will be our Parnel park
I think a football quarter final is a stretch in itself but a hurling one?

Yes I know that's pushing it but, if Antrim keep the momentum they have and develop their game further they my be pushing for a quarter final before long, was the Wexford and Tipp games quarter finals?

The GAA should be looking at the start to bring the National Hurling League Final there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:45:34 PM
There's not a mission of any of those teams agreeing to come up and they'd be 100% right.
FFS Waterford can't even come up to our actual home games.

Lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 08:44:50 PM
Teams are dragged from one end of the country to another throughout the league.

Casement is not being built to drag Kerry and Cork to Belfast, but let's get it built, with agreement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 09:01:29 PM
Yes I agree but let's get some novelty games that'll promote it early doors and maybe, just maybe we'll be able to watch Antrim in championship there, and Ulster football finals at the very least
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 09:12:27 PM
Ain't that depressing from an Antrim perspective.

Yes, hopeful the Hurlers will bring us some bigger games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 09:45:34 PM
Did anyone hear Neil McManus on Radio Ulster today? One of his points was "west Belfast really needs this". Why? Now don't jump down my throat. Just explain it to me. Gaelfast is what Belfast needed more for me.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 09:45:34 PM
Did anyone hear Neil McManus on Radio Ulster today? One of his points was "west Belfast really needs this". Why? Now don't jump down my throat. Just explain it to me. Gaelfast is what Belfast needed more for me.

Along with Gaelfast it'll certainly bring more attention and interest
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 10:32:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 08:18:39 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

How many times per year would such a stadium be filled or nearly filled?

Casement would have had big numbers on many occasions when the big teams played there.. no reason why they won't be played there again. and with a view of getting a hurling and football quarterfinal you'll be looking at good gates.. Add in your concerts and the running of conferences and so on, it'll be used.

That's a management thing, it'll be a business at that point. It won't all be about the GAA, same as Croke... Corrigan which is nearly finished and hosted Westmeath at the weekend will be our Parnel park
I think a football quarter final is a stretch in itself but a hurling one?

Yes I know that's pushing it but, if Antrim keep the momentum they have and develop their game further they my be pushing for a quarter final before long, was the Wexford and Tipp games quarter finals?

The GAA should be looking at the start to bring the National Hurling League Final there.
If the GAA are having to drag teams the length of the country just to "use the new stadium", it raises questions about the GAA's need for the new stadium in the first place.

I was thinking more of the terms of promoting hurling in Ulster.

Tipp were up in Antrim for games on an annual basis.  Ballyhale played in Newry at the start of this year in front of a great crowd.

I think, depending on the teams, could be quite beneficial plus Id say the two teams in question would be delighted to do it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 09:45:34 PM
Did anyone hear Neil McManus on Radio Ulster today? One of his points was "west Belfast really needs this". Why? Now don't jump down my throat. Just explain it to me. Gaelfast is what Belfast needed more for me.

Along with Gaelfast it'll certainly bring more attention and interest

Well if it's all for the speculative benefit of Antrim it's fairly obvious where the overspend should be funded from🤷🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 10:42:03 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 26, 2020, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 09:45:34 PM
Did anyone hear Neil McManus on Radio Ulster today? One of his points was "west Belfast really needs this". Why? Now don't jump down my throat. Just explain it to me. Gaelfast is what Belfast needed more for me.

Along with Gaelfast it'll certainly bring more attention and interest

Well if it's all for the speculative benefit of Antrim it's fairly obvious where the overspend should be funded from🤷🏻‍♂️

The venue just happens to be in Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 11:13:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 10:03:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 26, 2020, 09:45:34 PM
Did anyone hear Neil McManus on Radio Ulster today? One of his points was "west Belfast really needs this". Why? Now don't jump down my throat. Just explain it to me. Gaelfast is what Belfast needed more for me.

Along with Gaelfast it'll certainly bring more attention and interest

yeah profile would be raised but id argue that a greater bang for your buck will be got from gaelfast. id take hand off ye for that here in Derry. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:22:08 PM
I'm with you on that and there's no reason why Gaels I'm Derry like your club and county board shouldn't be demanding that same thing
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2020, 09:04:46 AM
There's as much chance of one of us having 33 mill in their back pocket as antrim county board!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 27, 2020, 09:13:47 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:02:52 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 10:32:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 08:18:39 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 26, 2020, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:39:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 26, 2020, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: dec on October 26, 2020, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Possibly but the second city in Ireland should have a stadium that's reflects a lot of cities around the world...

We have a stadium that's fit for purpose for soccer and rugby, we should have had similar for GAA, maybe not as grand as the one that was initially thought of but certainly a brand new stadium, a sort of mini Croke.

We would have been using the stadium now, had the right planning and proper consultations been in place with the locals. Its a shame that its still on going with all the costs

I'd have been happy with a 28 grand seater stadium with corporate facilities/handball courts/ bar/ restaurants/ and conference rooms..

How many times per year would such a stadium be filled or nearly filled?

Casement would have had big numbers on many occasions when the big teams played there.. no reason why they won't be played there again. and with a view of getting a hurling and football quarterfinal you'll be looking at good gates.. Add in your concerts and the running of conferences and so on, it'll be used.

That's a management thing, it'll be a business at that point. It won't all be about the GAA, same as Croke... Corrigan which is nearly finished and hosted Westmeath at the weekend will be our Parnel park
I think a football quarter final is a stretch in itself but a hurling one?

Yes I know that's pushing it but, if Antrim keep the momentum they have and develop their game further they my be pushing for a quarter final before long, was the Wexford and Tipp games quarter finals?

The GAA should be looking at the start to bring the National Hurling League Final there.
If the GAA are having to drag teams the length of the country just to "use the new stadium", it raises questions about the GAA's need for the new stadium in the first place.

I was thinking more of the terms of promoting hurling in Ulster.

Tipp were up in Antrim for games on an annual basis.  Ballyhale played in Newry at the start of this year in front of a great crowd.

I think, depending on the teams, could be quite beneficial plus Id say the two teams in question would be delighted to do it.
Tipp come up for a charity/memorial game. Which is fair enough.
Ballyhale played in Newry as a neutral venue against Slaughtneil. Which is fair enough.

Making 2 teams and their supporters travel from what is likely to be very far south to Belfast for a serious game (a national final) to promote Ulster hurling or to make Casement seem less redundant would not be fair enough. It would be ridiculous and very unfair on those counties.

I would disagree.

The GAA promotes the game of hurling in...errrmmmm..Boston.

It's a holiday/junket granted, but the point still stands that GAA HQ could promote hurling in Ireland's second city, in a brand new stadium in a one off scenario.

I guarantee you that whatever southern counties would be involved, they'd buy into a festival of hurling over that week-end.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 09:47:49 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

I can't not agree with that, as much as I want to see that it'll not happen
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on October 27, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it’s therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it’s going to be Casement
surely the point of a new stadium wouild be to broaden the appeal rather  than to Stay the Same
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on October 27, 2020, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement
Couldnt keep the crowds off the pitch.... ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:24:14 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on October 27, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement
surely the point of a new stadium wouild be to broaden the appeal rather  than to Stay the Same

Was that the basis the public funding was obtained on?

There will have been a business plan for each stadium investment. Games promised in business plan can't be recycled in to business plans b, c, and d.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: delgany on October 28, 2020, 12:26:42 AM
3 gigs a year !
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 08:35:48 AM
Lets get it built and see what happens  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
No reason why it couldn't facilitate the following as well as GAA. Soccer, rugby, Boxing, music
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Thats gas. Here is me thinking we are where we are because the Antrim County Board faked H&S documents wheras soccer and rugby did it right.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 28, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
No reason why it couldn't facilitate the following as well as GAA. Soccer, rugby, Boxing, music
Ye see, that reflection of where we are on this is kind of annoying.

I'm under no illusion that Antrim GAA has been swindled. We have handed over our county ground and our greatest monetary asset and in return we've been shoehorned into the ha'penny place at Corrigan. And that's no slight on St. John's by the way, they have a very good club facility but as regards to it being a county ground, it is possibly the worst in Ireland.

If that was done to facilitate other sports then that's an even bigger ballix. We are constantly told that this is a game changer for Antrim GAA, it'll awaken the sleeping giant, West Belfast will be the capital of Ulster GAA, the GAA will get great exposure on the Andytown Road, and then we have this......sure if there isn't much use for the GAA, then soccer, rugby etc can use it. We are competing against these other sports. Money is being pumped into Gaelfast to raise the profile of GAA in Belfast and at the same time we are considering putting other major sporting events into our flagship stadium in that area?

On top of that, a major argument for "getcasementbuilt" is that soccer and rugby got their stadiums so we deserve ours. That being the case, soccer, rugby and everything else can fcuk right off.
This is not me being an ultra-Gael with a no foreign games mentality either. To me, Casement Park is a GAA ground and that's where our sole focus should lie. Other sports shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion, let alone being used as reasons why it is needed.

But no NHL Final!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)

Condition of the planning is 3 Concerts per year
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

By that logic Croke Park should have been put somewhere central like Athlone
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 12:17:44 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
No reason why it couldn't facilitate the following as well as GAA. Soccer, rugby, Boxing, music
Ye see, that reflection of where we are on this is kind of annoying.

I'm under no illusion that Antrim GAA has been swindled. We have handed over our county ground and our greatest monetary asset and in return we've been shoehorned into the ha'penny place at Corrigan. And that's no slight on St. John's by the way, they have a very good club facility but as regards to it being a county ground, it is possibly the worst in Ireland.

If that was done to facilitate other sports then that's an even bigger ballix. We are constantly told that this is a game changer for Antrim GAA, it'll awaken the sleeping giant, West Belfast will be the capital of Ulster GAA, the GAA will get great exposure on the Andytown Road, and then we have this......sure if there isn't much use for the GAA, then soccer, rugby etc can use it. We are competing against these other sports. Money is being pumped into Gaelfast to raise the profile of GAA in Belfast and at the same time we are considering putting other major sporting events into our flagship stadium in that area?

On top of that, a major argument for "getcasementbuilt" is that soccer and rugby got their stadiums so we deserve ours. That being the case, soccer, rugby and everything else can fcuk right off.
This is not me being an ultra-Gael with a no foreign games mentality either. To me, Casement Park is a GAA ground and that's where our sole focus should lie. Other sports shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion, let alone being used as reasons why it is needed.

I'm under no illusion that Antrim GAA has been swindled. Me neither. We all know that Antrim GAA have been shafted. My point being that if its going/has to be built, it has to be used. I'm fed up arguing with people who want it built for the sake of it. And listening to conversations on how the entertainment side had been booked out in the supposed year of opening then yes it seems its sole intention was to be a municipal facility owned by Ulster GAA.
I would like to see it built and a full itinerary of GAA fixtures for both club and county published for each year. Then I don't see why it couldnt used for concerts, Irish rugby or soccer that not other local stadium couldn't facilitate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: michaelg on October 28, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)

Condition of the planning is 3 Concerts per year
Do you think both sides of the community in Belfast would be happy to attend concerts there? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 28, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)

Condition of the planning is 3 Concerts per year
Do you think both sides of the community in Belfast would be happy to attend concerts there?

I think so. POP acts at Feile concerts in the Falls Park in recent years have attracted people from both sides.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 28, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Feile will be based in Casement and they will probably get more use out of it than Antrim GAA
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: michaelg on October 28, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 28, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)

Condition of the planning is 3 Concerts per year
Do you think both sides of the community in Belfast would be happy to attend concerts there?

I think so. POP acts at Feile concerts in the Falls Park in recent years have attracted people from both sides.
Perhaps.  I am fairly middle of the road but have not attended anything in Falls Park yet myself.  Was looking to go to the Charlatans gig a few years ago and a few mates didn't fancy it.  I know nothing would have happened, but some people still a bit reluctant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 12:33:40 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 28, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Feile will be based in Casement and they will probably get more use out of it than Antrim GAA

This was a cert from the get go.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 28, 2020, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 28, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)

Condition of the planning is 3 Concerts per year
Do you think both sides of the community in Belfast would be happy to attend concerts there?

I think so. POP acts at Feile concerts in the Falls Park in recent years have attracted people from both sides.
Perhaps.  I am fairly middle of the road but have not attended anything in Falls Park yet myself.  Was looking to go to the Charlatans gig a few years ago and a few mates didn't fancy it.  I know nothing would have happened, but some people still a bit reluctant.

Plenty Gaels at Ravenhill every week, many are season ticket holders

Not a great area to be hanging about either but hey ho

Boxing fights at Windsor

Finding a neutral area is nearly impossible unless its central Belfast, as it will always back on to a orange or green zone, Like Ormeau Park having concerts
there's usually no problems

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Pub Bore on October 28, 2020, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Thats gas. Here is me thinking we are where we are because the Antrim County Board faked H&S documents wheras soccer and rugby did it right.
I'd think this is an example of what they call misinformation these days.  Pretty serious charge against the Antrim CB too?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Thats gas. Here is me thinking we are where we are because the Antrim County Board faked H&S documents wheras soccer and rugby did it right.
What are you talking about? Antrim GAA no longer own Casement Park and are not building the new stadium.
Your issue might be with Ulster GAA? I'm not sure....

Apologies.Ulster GAA.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Thats gas. Here is me thinking we are where we are because the Antrim County Board faked H&S documents wheras soccer and rugby did it right.
What are you talking about? Antrim GAA no longer own Casement Park and are not building the new stadium.
Your issue might be with Ulster GAA? I'm not sure....

Apologies.Ulster GAA.
Without getting into the nitty gritty of what they did/didn't do, if your general point is that the reason why the GAA's stadium redevelopment hasn't even begun while soccer & rugby's stadium redevelopments are long finished is because the GAA have made a total hash of theirs, you aren't going to get a single argument from me.

Ulster GAA in particular made a hash of it. The lad leading it has now left the organisation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 06:20:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 28, 2020, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on October 28, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
Thats gas. Here is me thinking we are where we are because the Antrim County Board faked H&S documents wheras soccer and rugby did it right.
What are you talking about? Antrim GAA no longer own Casement Park and are not building the new stadium.
Your issue might be with Ulster GAA? I'm not sure....

Apologies.Ulster GAA.
Without getting into the nitty gritty of what they did/didn't do, if your general point is that the reason why the GAA's stadium redevelopment hasn't even begun while soccer & rugby's stadium redevelopments are long finished is because the GAA have made a total hash of theirs, you aren't going to get a single argument from me.

Ulster GAA in particular made a hash of it. The lad leading it has now left the organisation.

Probably running the current Covid strategy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 28, 2020, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 09:57:47 AM
No reason why it couldn't facilitate the following as well as GAA. Soccer, rugby, Boxing, music

Don't think there would be much demand form either soccer or rugby. Possibly a European knock out game in rugby but that's it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 28, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

Apart from a Nathan Carter concert who's going to go a gig in Dungannon with very few hotels in the area?

This is a multi functional stadium.......

I wasn't thinking about gigs. How many gigs was Casement planning to hold and how many of these would have been additional gigs for NI (rather than displaced from another venue?)

Condition of the planning is 3 Concerts per year

So a max of 3 concerts. Would be very interested to see what acts Casement can attract that another NI venue can't
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 28, 2020, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

By that logic Croke Park should have been put somewhere central like Athlone

No it wouldn't
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Clinker on October 28, 2020, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:16:14 PM

By that logic Croke Park should have been put somewhere central like Athlone


Our oul big solid radio had Home, Light and Athlone engraved on it. By moving the dial around on the outside - a small triangle would go along a wire inside(that is what it seemed like from the outside and nobody was going to take it apart to find out) and the nearer you could get to the middle of the particular engraving the better the signal and reception from that channel. Athlone was never as famous again after the radios changed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 12:38:12 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 28, 2020, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

By that logic Croke Park should have been put somewhere central like Athlone

No it wouldn't

You want Dungannon because I presume it's central for Ulster

Somewhere in the midlands would be central for the whole of Ireland

Where as best practice would suggest that both stadia need to be in a city location

I can't see a stadium in Dungannon attracting too many corporate events or concerts
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:34:56 AM
The likes Slane, Punchestown and Thurles are well established.

Never did the trip to Tipp... The dander to Dungannon doesn't sound right
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on October 29, 2020, 09:04:23 AM
If the Ulster Council had adopted a smidgen of humility when dealing with the residents then the stadium would be built by now. They were also hindered by the arrogance of the employees tasked with overseeing the project with jealousy and backstabbing to the fore. (Both individuals were jockeying for Danny Murphy's job). Delusional; and as mentioned previously, one has left the organisation.
It's now a vanity project and to consider building a stadium of that size at a cost of min 100 million in current climate is grossly negligent. Something of a similar size and layout to Ravenhill is all that's required, c20k max. Look at what happened in Cork; what's the definition of madness, doing the same thing and expecting a different result?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:18:33 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 12:38:12 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 28, 2020, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 28, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 27, 2020, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:19:57 AM
Absolutely they should get teams up for the opening of it or some other piss about match but not a national final. The supporters of those counties deserve fair access to that game. Not dragged the entire length of the country.

Agree with that. The stadium should be developed to meet a need that is there. Not to move games around that already can be accommodated. I get the point that Clones would need major redevelopment and that is probably not going to happen and it's therefore legitimate to look somewhere else in Ulster for a leading stadium.

Somewhere around Dungannon would probably suit most but it's going to be Casement

By that logic Croke Park should have been put somewhere central like Athlone

No it wouldn't

You want Dungannon because I presume it's central for Ulster

Somewhere in the midlands would be central for the whole of Ireland

Where as best practice would suggest that both stadia need to be in a city location

I can't see a stadium in Dungannon attracting too many corporate events or concerts

Thank you for telling me what I want.

Consider this.

The Dungannon area is on the motorway with good links to key GAA areas. North Armagh, Armagh city, east Tyrone, South Derry and a chunk of Monaghan are on its doorstep. There are now good links heading west of Dungannon.

Most of the times the stadium is used that is where the crowd is coming from.

Antrim don't bring a crowd. North down doesn't bring a crowd.

That's is a key difference between Dublin and Athlone
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 09:19:33 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 08:53:24 AM
If Bruce Springsteen was playing in Dungannon, it would sell out.
Same for Philomena Begley.

Both true. The Mastercard ad writes itself
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on October 29, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Unreal...Casement has got planning approval and the stadium is finally going ahead and people are still talking about building it somewhere else...Jesus wept.

P.S. Lurgan is better than Dungannon as we've a train station and a M1 motorway and prob more central than Dungannon. So i've seen ya and raised ya... ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on October 29, 2020, 10:05:37 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 10:01:03 AM
Ulster finals are known for warm sunny days with kids demanding refreshing ice cream. Fcuk all worth talking about in Lurgan to provide that service.

;D ;D

Dont poke the bear HS
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 10:21:18 AM
Quote from: illdecide on October 29, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Unreal...Casement has got planning approval and the stadium is finally going ahead and people are still talking about building it somewhere else...Jesus wept.

P.S. Lurgan is better than Dungannon as we've a train station and a M1 motorway and prob more central than Dungannon. So i've seen ya and raised ya... ;)

Of course build it Lurgan so the peoples of Donegal, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Tyrone, Derry, North Antrim, Cavan, Armagh city, the bulk of Down etc, etc can drive to the Train station.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 29, 2020, 10:27:01 AM
Quote from: illdecide on October 29, 2020, 09:55:59 AM
Unreal...Casement has got planning approval and the stadium is finally going ahead and people are still talking about building it somewhere else...Jesus wept.

P.S. Lurgan is better than Dungannon as we've a train station and a M1 motorway and prob more central than Dungannon. So i've seen ya and raised ya... ;)

Can your albino lad Paul I think his name was, pull up the chip van he used to park outside the school rock up and offer everyone a "bean topper"?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 08:01:41 AM
Yeah, you're right. It needs to be in the city for concerts as big artists and music lovers wouldn't head to places like Dungannon, Thurles, Punchestown, Stradbally and Slane..... ::)

Not that I'm advocating building the stadium in Dungannon.

The last concert in Thurles was pulled because they couldn't sell enough tickets

Punchestown is also long gone

Slane isn't an annual event

Which leaves Stradbally as the last major annual camping out festival,good luck to you if want to do similar with Dungannon

The reality is that most major concerts are held in city stadia for reasons such as accessibility,size,comfort,bars and concessions
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 08:01:41 AM
Yeah, you're right. It needs to be in the city for concerts as big artists and music lovers wouldn't head to places like Dungannon, Thurles, Punchestown, Stradbally and Slane..... ::)

Not that I'm advocating building the stadium in Dungannon.

The last concert in Thurles was pulled because they couldn't sell enough tickets

Punchestown is also long gone

Slane isn't an annual event

Which leaves Stradbally as the last major annual camping out festival,good luck to you if want to do similar with Dungannon

The reality is that most major concerts are held in city stadia for reasons such as accessibility,size,comfort,bars and concessions

But the stadia are built for sporting reasons and they then compete for concerts.

The sporting rationale for this stadium is stronger outside Belfast. And Belfast already has stadia and outdoor concert venues.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on October 29, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 10:01:03 AM
Ulster finals are known for warm sunny days with kids demanding refreshing ice cream. Fcuk all worth talking about in Lurgan to provide that service.

V good...I'm sure we could find them something ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 08:01:41 AM
Yeah, you're right. It needs to be in the city for concerts as big artists and music lovers wouldn't head to places like Dungannon, Thurles, Punchestown, Stradbally and Slane..... ::)

Not that I'm advocating building the stadium in Dungannon.

The last concert in Thurles was pulled because they couldn't sell enough tickets

Punchestown is also long gone

Slane isn't an annual event

Which leaves Stradbally as the last major annual camping out festival,good luck to you if want to do similar with Dungannon

The reality is that most major concerts are held in city stadia for reasons such as accessibility,size,comfort,bars and concessions

But the stadia are built for sporting reasons and they then compete for concerts.

The sporting rationale for this stadium is stronger outside Belfast. And Belfast already has stadia and outdoor concert venues.


Belfast is the second largest city on the Island,if you want to develop and enhance the GAAs presence in the largest urban centers where let's face it most of the population movement is now to.

You need an adequately developed stadium  in a city environment

Lads suggesting lurgan or Dungannon is the equivalent of not developing Croke park in the 1990's and moving it out to Newbridge or Portlaoise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Dungannon as much as its a lovely place doesn't have hotels that would be able to facilitate large venue concerts

As for Motorway, Casement is on the motorway and has a train station about 20 minute walk away.. would be amazing if the infrastructure was able to facilitate a walkway from under the motorway up towards the back of Casement with parking near Malusk park...

Either way its being built..

Andytown is no different to Northside Dublin, and people head there in their droves!   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
As someone said the project and the Government money is for Casement, not for wherever GAAboarders think is best.
So get on with building what ye can with the money that's available.
There won't be any more cash from GAA or the public purse for 3 or 4 years at best thanks to Covid.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 29, 2020, 12:17:09 PM
If you go to any stadium in Britain for a big match expect a longish walk. 20 mins from casement covers a pretty wide area to possibly park up. Still some will try and park at the front gate ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on October 29, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2020, 08:01:41 AM
Yeah, you're right. It needs to be in the city for concerts as big artists and music lovers wouldn't head to places like Dungannon, Thurles, Punchestown, Stradbally and Slane..... ::)

Not that I'm advocating building the stadium in Dungannon.

The last concert in Thurles was pulled because they couldn't sell enough tickets

Punchestown is also long gone

Slane isn't an annual event

Which leaves Stradbally as the last major annual camping out festival,good luck to you if want to do similar with Dungannon

The reality is that most major concerts are held in city stadia for reasons such as accessibility,size,comfort,bars and concessions

But the stadia are built for sporting reasons and they then compete for concerts.

The sporting rationale for this stadium is stronger outside Belfast. And Belfast already has stadia and outdoor concert venues.


Belfast is the second largest city on the Island,if you want to develop and enhance the GAAs presence in the largest urban centers where let's face it most of the population movement is now to.

You need an adequately developed stadium  in a city environment

Lads suggesting lurgan or Dungannon is the equivalent of not developing Croke park in the 1990's and moving it out to Newbridge or Portlaoise.

Belfast needs a stadium. I'm not arguing against it. Work out what the Antrim/Belfast requirement is and seek planning and funding for that.

The Newbridge/Portlaoise argument is bogus. Dublin have a baseline requirement for a large stadium and the GAA have a peak requirement for something close to 100k capacity. Allied to the history of CP it was the obvious choice.

Antrim's baseline requirement is not comparable and nowhere remotely close to the Casement capacity.
Ulster GAA's requirement probably isn't as high as the original Casement ambition.
The GAA requirement within Ulster does not centre around Belfast. Dungannon would have been more logical.
The hotel argument made by others is weak. Belfast has hotels but it also has existing concert venues. What is the argument that it needs another one for 3 nights a year?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on October 29, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 29, 2020, 11:59:21 AM
As someone said the project and the Government money is for Casement, not for wherever GAAboarders think is best.
So get on with building what ye can with the money that's available.
There won't be any more cash from GAA or the public purse for 3 or 4 years at best thanks to Covid.

Currently the project is not going ahead. The available budget is currently insufficient. This has a way to go
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 05:45:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1351567139275223041
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 05:45:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1351567139275223041

I'll believe it when the diggers move in
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 19, 2021, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 05:45:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1351567139275223041

I'll believe it when the diggers move in

Not even then, they might use the diggers for demolition and not build anything.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 19, 2021, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 05:45:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1351567139275223041

I'll believe it when the diggers move in

Not even then, they might use the diggers for demolition and not build anything.

You'd like to think they'll not eat in with demolition without planning, I know they could find a few out of work demolition experts but I think they've been decommissioned
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 19, 2021, 09:38:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 19, 2021, 08:50:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 05:45:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1351567139275223041

I'll believe it when the diggers move in

Not even then, they might use the diggers for demolition and not build anything.

You'd like to think they'll not eat in with demolition without planning, I know they could find a few out of work demolition experts but I think they've been decommissioned

You could set up the digger and charge people to drive it about wrecking the place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on January 19, 2021, 10:01:59 PM
It's a race between World Peace and new Casement Park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 10:03:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 19, 2021, 10:01:59 PM
It's a race between World Peace and new Casement Park

Cancer will be cured before Casement gets its first game!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: delgany on February 16, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Croke Park pulling the funding for Casement and all other infrastructure projects for short to medium term due to Covid impact on income !
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 16, 2021, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: delgany on February 16, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Croke Park pulling the funding for Casement and all other infrastructure projects for short to medium term due to Covid impact on income !

Says the exact opposite here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/56083552 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/56083552)

In its financial report for the year ending 31 October, the cost of a lack of gate receipts is laid bare with the GAA now 27.1m euros in debt.

When the deficit at provincial and county level is factored in that figure rises to 34.1m.

The GAA confirmed the losses will not impact on the redevelopment of Casement Park with funding of 15m already ringfenced for the project.

The GAA reported a loss in revenue of 68m euros due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: delgany on February 16, 2021, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 16, 2021, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: delgany on February 16, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Croke Park pulling the funding for Casement and all other infrastructure projects for short to medium term due to Covid impact on income !

Says the exact opposite here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/56083552 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/56083552)

In its financial report for the year ending 31 October, the cost of a lack of gate receipts is laid bare with the GAA now 27.1m euros in debt.

When the deficit at provincial and county level is factored in that figure rises to 34.1m.

The GAA confirmed the losses will not impact on the redevelopment of Casement Park with funding of 15m already ringfenced for the project.

The GAA reported a loss in revenue of 68m euros due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

Saw that there now too, the GAA said funding was ring fenced but who knows what way it will go
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on February 16, 2021, 03:52:13 PM
Would there be any other "Amateur Sport" with such volumes of money required to run it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on February 16, 2021, 04:49:37 PM
would be some money to build Casement now as the price of materials since the start of the year has sky rocketed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 16, 2021, 07:02:00 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 16, 2021, 03:52:13 PM
Would there be any other "Amateur Sport" with such volumes of money required to run it?

Olympics are pretty expensive i guess.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Louther on February 17, 2021, 09:05:14 AM
Project has to have question marks over it again - GAA funding for these projects in doubt and serious questions how the shortfall on current projected costs will be funded. Unlikely to be from GAA pot.

The Louth project in Dundalk also has question marks now, hopefully only a delay rather than a complete stall.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on February 17, 2021, 09:09:01 AM
Sounds to me like a bit of horse trading in terms of who is going to meet the shortfall, or more like where each party is going to meet on it.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 17, 2021, 09:47:07 AM
The NI Executive funds the shortfall. End of story. SF and Nicola Mallon should come out and make that point. No matter if it costs 200m it gets built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 17, 2021, 10:05:03 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 17, 2021, 09:47:07 AM
The NI Executive funds the shortfall. End of story. SF and Nicola Mallon should come out and make that point. No matter if it costs 200m it gets built.
Satire I assume? Its not immediately obvious
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 17, 2021, 10:13:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 17, 2021, 09:47:07 AM
The NI Executive funds the shortfall. End of story. SF and Nicola Mallon should come out and make that point. No matter if it costs 200m it gets built.

Why would the NI executive pay for it if it cost £200m?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 17, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Disaster project-someone in GAA should have gone by now, absolute amateurism
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Louther on February 17, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 17, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Disaster project-someone in GAA should have gone by now, absolute amateurism

Very true. At private sector, heads be rolled long time ago.

I'm not even sure the current projected costs are realistic after the review in 2020 for any of these projects. Material prices are continuing to rise in recent months and Brexit of course not helping.

If a feasibility study was done now, I don't think the project would be any way viable. Even the business model of conferencing facilities etc will be questionable post covid.

Still some stadium has to be built with the funding that is available.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 17, 2021, 11:12:42 AM
At this stage would they not be safer giving the ground back to Antrim, use the government money to put in a new pitch and build two good covered stands and leave the terracing at either end.  You would probably end up with a  ground around 20,000 capacity which would hold ulster semi finals and possibly finals depending on counties involved.  If there is money left then spend it on Corrigan Park and other county grounds across the 6 counties.

If the GAA want to spend money down the line then use it to build a modern stand in Clones to replace the current covered stand.

Antrim have been well and truly shafted in all of this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 17, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
I think its time for some reality now.
Build what you can with the funds available.
Wouldn't a tidy Stadium with 1 main Stand of say 5k capacity plus terracing with 10 -15k capacity be more than sufficient?
Co Board offices, dressing rooms etc under the Stand.
Unlikely many big Ulster games will be played in the 6 Counties anyway with VAT plus there may be new Football Championship structures.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on February 17, 2021, 11:43:29 AM
May have been covered in this thread before;
Why did Antrim/Ulster GAA board(s) close casement before planning was approved, finance was in place & construction was ready to begin?
That's scandalous - ok the place needed work, but it could have at least been maintained for Club games & national league without significant investment surely?
It almost looks like they made it unusable to put pressure on PlanningNi to pass it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on February 17, 2021, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 17, 2021, 11:12:42 AM
At this stage would they not be safer giving the ground back to Antrim, use the government money to put in a new pitch and build two good covered stands and leave the terracing at either end.  You would probably end up with a  ground around 20,000 capacity which would hold ulster semi finals and possibly finals depending on counties involved.  If there is money left then spend it on Corrigan Park and other county grounds across the 6 counties.

If the GAA want to spend money down the line then use it to build a modern stand in Clones to replace the current covered stand.

Antrim have been well and truly shafted in all of this.

That's exactly what should happen now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 17, 2021, 11:44:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
I think its time for some reality now.
Build what you can with the funds available.
Wouldn't a tidy Stadium with 1 main Stand of say 5k capacity plus terracing with 10 -15k capacity be more than sufficient?
Co Board offices, dressing rooms etc under the Stand.
Unlikely many big Ulster games will be played in the 6 Counties anyway with VAT plus there may be new Football Championship structures.

We have plenty of good stadiums lying empty for most of the year- so yeah to a point I agree, its a real pity that we didn't have the gumption to match IFA and RFU plans and strategy from the start, but for me at this stage I cant really understand the obsession with Casement, it was never easily accessed anyhow, we could have had the full deal somewhere else by now. Belfast is on the very far right of the province. We cant get some people within our own county to make the trip over the Glenshane without moaning. Bundoran or Cavan Town to West Belfast(with the torturous  traffic) isn't exactly handy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 17, 2021, 01:03:26 PM
Does have the motorways and airport links though. Though come to think if it, does anyone fly in for an ulster final?

You can complain about the traffic into west belfast but christ do people not remember what it was like getting into Clones on Ulster final day?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 17, 2021, 01:31:01 PM
I cannot understand why we don't want to future proof stadia for our games. Build a 40k all seater. I'm happy to look at alternative locations and wasn't a fan of Casement site to begin with but the GAA needs a state of the art stadium in Ulster and the NI executive is to fund it. It is not our fault that the DUP scuppered the joint stadium idea. GAA is the largest sport in the north and should have a stadium worthy of that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 17, 2021, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 17, 2021, 01:03:26 PM
Does have the motorways and airport links though. Though come to think if it, does anyone fly in for an ulster final?

You can complain about the traffic into west belfast but christ do people not remember what it was like getting into Clones on Ulster final day?

I don't think we have any motorways that go outside Antrim other than to Dungannon and Craigavon. Imagine that. West of the Bann is a real thing. It take me just short of 2 hours to get to Andersontown from Derry with very light traffic. Well over that getting out again at certain times of the day. Motorway stops at Randalstown.

Protestant state for protestant people and things haven't got much better on some fronts
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on February 19, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 17, 2021, 11:44:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
I think its time for some reality now.
Build what you can with the funds available.
Wouldn't a tidy Stadium with 1 main Stand of say 5k capacity plus terracing with 10 -15k capacity be more than sufficient?
Co Board offices, dressing rooms etc under the Stand.
Unlikely many big Ulster games will be played in the 6 Counties anyway with VAT plus there may be new Football Championship structures.

We have plenty of good stadiums lying empty for most of the year- so yeah to a point I agree, its a real pity that we didn't have the gumption to match IFA and RFU plans and strategy from the start, but for me at this stage I cant really understand the obsession with Casement, it was never easily accessed anyhow, we could have had the full deal somewhere else by now. Belfast is on the very far right of the province. We cant get some people within our own county to make the trip over the Glenshane without moaning. Bundoran or Cavan Town to West Belfast(with the torturous  traffic) isn't exactly handy.

Belfast is on the far right of the province
Clones is on the far south of the province
and Omagh is on the far left of the province

That's the point. Ulster had this figured out in the 50's and 60's, where the Ulster final rotated between the three venues. Ulster needs a Munster solution where the finals can move about. Clones for northern half of Ulster is a bad location, so the vision for Casement is correct. The management of this has been an absolute disaster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on February 19, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
That's the point. Ulster had this figured out in the 50's and 60's, where the Ulster final rotated between the three venues. Ulster needs a Munster solution where the finals can move about. Clones for northern half of Ulster is a bad location, so the vision for Casement is correct. The management of this has been an absolute disaster

It isn't a solution to have several enormous great stadiums only used every 4 or 5 years.
Belfast is not only offside in Ulster but offside in Ireland, there are few neutral games that it would suit.
However, a stadium in Belfast and an somewhat improved Clones for games that it suited would be OK, if they get it done.

An inflatable roof would be a game changer at Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on February 19, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on February 19, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
That's the point. Ulster had this figured out in the 50's and 60's, where the Ulster final rotated between the three venues. Ulster needs a Munster solution where the finals can move about. Clones for northern half of Ulster is a bad location, so the vision for Casement is correct. The management of this has been an absolute disaster

It isn't a solution to have several enormous great stadiums only used every 4 or 5 years.
Belfast is not only offside in Ulster but offside in Ireland, there are few neutral games that it would suit.
However, a stadium in Belfast and an somewhat improved Clones for games that it suited would be OK, if they get it done.

An inflatable roof would be a game changer at Casement.

Complains about Stadia in Munster and then wants one with a retractable stadium in Belfast?

You need to go back and do your sums on that one
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on February 19, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
That's the point. Ulster had this figured out in the 50's and 60's, where the Ulster final rotated between the three venues. Ulster needs a Munster solution where the finals can move about. Clones for northern half of Ulster is a bad location, so the vision for Casement is correct. The management of this has been an absolute disaster

It isn't a solution to have several enormous great stadiums only used every 4 or 5 years.
Belfast is not only offside in Ulster but offside in Ireland, there are few neutral games that it would suit.
However, a stadium in Belfast and an somewhat improved Clones for games that it suited would be OK, if they get it done.

An inflatable roof would be a game changer at Casement.

Complains about Stadia in Munster and then wants one with a retractable stadium in Belfast?

You need to go back and do your sums on that one

There is a difference between complaining about multiple stadiums infrequently used and suggesting a way to make one stadium more useful and so used more.
I am not an expert on the cost of the economics of such roofs. But the fact that the Connacht training centre has one suggests that perhaps this technology might be now becoming more affordable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on February 19, 2021, 10:21:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on February 19, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
That's the point. Ulster had this figured out in the 50's and 60's, where the Ulster final rotated between the three venues. Ulster needs a Munster solution where the finals can move about. Clones for northern half of Ulster is a bad location, so the vision for Casement is correct. The management of this has been an absolute disaster

It isn't a solution to have several enormous great stadiums only used every 4 or 5 years.
Belfast is not only offside in Ulster but offside in Ireland, there are few neutral games that it would suit.
However, a stadium in Belfast and an somewhat improved Clones for games that it suited would be OK, if they get it done.

An inflatable roof would be a game changer at Casement.

Complains about Stadia in Munster and then wants one with a retractable stadium in Belfast?

You need to go back and do your sums on that one

There is a difference between complaining about multiple stadiums infrequently used and suggesting a way to make one stadium more useful and so used more.
I am not an expert on the cost of the economics of such roofs. But the fact that the Connacht training centre has one suggests that perhaps this technology might be now becoming more affordable.

I see you did a bit of editing and changed it from retractable to inflatable

Still wouldn't be a runner
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 11:29:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2021, 10:21:21 PM
I see you did a bit of editing and changed it from retractable to inflatable

Still wouldn't be a runner

I think that you are seeing things, my original post was not edited. I never thought that that heavy roof spanning a GAA pitch would be economic, but inflatable roofs seem to have developed recently. I said it would be a game changer, not that it would necessarily be affordable, I just do not know.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 20, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 07:47:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on February 19, 2021, 02:51:39 PM
That's the point. Ulster had this figured out in the 50's and 60's, where the Ulster final rotated between the three venues. Ulster needs a Munster solution where the finals can move about. Clones for northern half of Ulster is a bad location, so the vision for Casement is correct. The management of this has been an absolute disaster

It isn't a solution to have several enormous great stadiums only used every 4 or 5 years.
Belfast is not only offside in Ulster but offside in Ireland, there are few neutral games that it would suit.
However, a stadium in Belfast and an somewhat improved Clones for games that it suited would be OK, if they get it done.

An inflatable roof would be a game changer at Casement.

Complains about Stadia in Munster and then wants one with a retractable stadium in Belfast?

You need to go back and do your sums on that one

There is a difference between complaining about multiple stadiums infrequently used and suggesting a way to make one stadium more useful and so used more.
I am not an expert on the cost of the economics of such roofs. But the fact that the Connacht training centre has one suggests that perhaps this technology might be now becoming more affordable.

The inflatable Connaught trainig center is just a type of building.  They don't deflate it and move it around
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 20, 2021, 08:42:45 PM
I see Crusaders have the go ahead for a new stand.

Nothing out of the ordinary and simple works.. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 22, 2021, 05:50:26 PM
Moanaghan Cathaoirleach not happy.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40231556.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
This money for this Stadium is coming from the NI Executive. So can we put an end to can we not revamp Clones etc. The stadium gets built in the wee six or the money doesn't exist.
It's funny how we get Munster, Leinster and Connaught gaels telling us we shouldn't build a stadium, when they have somewhere in the region of 316 stadiums in their own provinces. The GAA needs a future proofed state of the art stadium built in Ulster. The NI Executive fund the shortfall. The Stadium gets built. That's it. Happy to discuss locations in Wee six, Dungannon, Portadown somewhere central all great ideas but it simply must happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
Why should the executive fund the shortfall ?  Is the same amount not going to all 3 main sports ?  Is it the executives fault if the GAA cant get its house in order ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 02:39:50 PM
Why should the executive fund the shortfall ? - Because they are part of the delay.

Is the same amount not going to all 3 main sports ? - No -

Is it the executives fault if the GAA cant get its house in order ? -Executive didn't sit for three years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 02:46:23 PM
Ok so why are the 3 sports not getting the same ? 

How come Ravenhill and Windsor are finished and Casement hasn't started ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 24, 2021, 03:24:00 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 02:46:23 PM
Ok so why are the 3 sports not getting the same ? 

How come Ravenhill and Windsor are finished and Casement hasn't started ?

Because we had absolute amateurs running the GAA project. The other associations didnt
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 24, 2021, 03:25:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
This money for this Stadium is coming from the NI Executive. So can we put an end to can we not revamp Clones etc. The stadium gets built in the wee six or the money doesn't exist.
It's funny how we get Munster, Leinster and Connaught gaels telling us we shouldn't build a stadium, when they have somewhere in the region of 316 stadiums in their own provinces. The GAA needs a future proofed state of the art stadium built in Ulster. The NI Executive fund the shortfall. The Stadium gets built. That's it. Happy to discuss locations in Wee six, Dungannon, Portadown somewhere central all great ideas but it simply must happen.

For me, in occupied 6, somewhere in mid Ulster,
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derry Optimist on February 24, 2021, 04:33:45 PM
The two main reasons that the completion of a newly modernised Casement Park has taken so long are: Number One. There was a long protracted   dispute from a local Residents Association which basically objected to the size of the new stadium as well as other ancillary objections. The nature of such objections is that it takes an inordinate  amount of time  for such objections to be heard and acted upon. As a consequence the Ulster GAA Council could not lodge their revised plans until 2017.


Then came Reason Number Two: A dispute between the  DUP and Sinn Fein led to the collapse of the Executive. As a consequence there was no politician with the power to sign off on the Ulster Council's last  submission. It was only when the Executive was reformed that new incoming Minister Nichola Mallon could give the final go ahead which she duly and correctly acceded to.So the Ulster Council can not be blamed for the delay and the corresponding additional expenditure.

Hopefully all other necessary completion steps will be speedily agreed and that we will see a newly reconstructed modern Stadium ready for 2022 Ulster final between Donegal and Derry with the Antrim v Offaly All Ireland Tailteann Cup quarter final preceding it as a curtain raiser in a packed Casement Park!!( By the way it was the Executive's fault that the budget for the new Park has overrun by so much so they should be responsible for  the vast bulk of the additional funding.)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
Why should the executive fund the shortfall ?  Is the same amount not going to all 3 main sports ?  Is it the executives fault if the GAA cant get its house in order ?

Would you give basketball in NI the same as Swimming? Different sports with different participation levels require different levels of funding.

The agreement when the shared stadium fell to shit was that the NI Executive would fund 3 suitable stadiums. The Executive then fell to shit and project was put on ice. Definitely the GAA had gobshites running the project but there was definitely other stuff going on. Michelle McIlveen and Danny Kennedy headed the dept overseeing the project from the Executives side. Planning was stalled for more reasons than a residents dispute.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 24, 2021, 05:18:05 PM
Quote from: Derry Optimist on February 24, 2021, 04:33:45 PM
The two main reasons that the completion of a newly modernised Casement Park has taken so long are: Number One. There was a long protracted   dispute from a local Residents Association which basically objected to the size of the new stadium as well as other ancillary objections. The nature of such objections is that it takes an inordinate  amount of time  for such objections to be heard and acted upon. As a consequence the Ulster GAA Council could not lodge their revised plans until 2017.


Then came Reason Number Two: A dispute between the  DUP and Sinn Fein led to the collapse of the Executive. As a consequence there was no politician with the power to sign off on the Ulster Council's last  submission. It was only when the Executive was reformed that new incoming Minister Nichola Mallon could give the final go ahead which she duly and correctly acceded to.So the Ulster Council can not be blamed for the delay and the corresponding additional expenditure.

Hopefully all other necessary completion steps will be speedily agreed and that we will see a newly reconstructed modern Stadium ready for 2022 Ulster final between Donegal and Derry with the Antrim v Offaly All Ireland Tailteann Cup quarter final preceding it as a curtain raiser in a packed Casement Park!!( By the way it was the Executive's fault that the budget for the new Park has overrun by so much so they should be responsible for  the vast bulk of the additional funding.)

Is that you Ryan?

Have you forgot about the H&S certificate and the lad involved feeling undue pressure to approve when he couldn't for the venue of the original size and lack of exit points?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.


Like what?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 24, 2021, 07:14:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 24, 2021, 06:43:20 PM
Casement is to the GAA what Brexit is to the DUP.
Push like fcuk for the biggest you can get. Dismiss all the warnings. Ignore everyone else's wishes. Blinkered on their own version of the end product - don't care how we get there.
Balls the whole thing up for yourself.
Refuse to take responsibility. Blame everyone else.
Demand someone pulls you out of the massive hole you dug with your own greedy and arrogant little shovel.

Clowns.

100 percent
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 24, 2021, 06:43:20 PM
Casement is to the GAA what Brexit is to the DUP.
Push like fcuk for the biggest you can get. Dismiss all the warnings. Ignore everyone else's wishes. Blinkered on their own version of the end product - don't care how we get there.
Balls the whole thing up for yourself.
Refuse to take responsibility. Blame everyone else.
Demand someone pulls you out of the massive hole you dug with your own greedy and arrogant little shovel.

Clowns.

Nonsense why shouldn't we build a stadium that's fit for the future. I remember when 25k turned up to watch Tyrone V Armagh in McKenna cup at Casement. Dream big, build big, achieve big.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.


Like what?

Schools, roads, hospital waiting lists, payrises for nurses off the top of my head
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 09:03:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 24, 2021, 06:43:20 PM
Casement is to the GAA what Brexit is to the DUP.
Push like fcuk for the biggest you can get. Dismiss all the warnings. Ignore everyone else’s wishes. Blinkered on their own version of the end product - don’t care how we get there.
Balls the whole thing up for yourself.
Refuse to take responsibility. Blame everyone else.
Demand someone pulls you out of the massive hole you dug with your own greedy and arrogant little shovel.

Clowns.

Nonsense why shouldn't we build a stadium that's fit for the future. I remember when 25k turned up to watch Tyrone V Armagh in McKenna cup at Casement. Dream big, build big, achieve big.

Id say the only ulster final fixture that would get 30k these days would be Armagh v Tyrone or Armagh v Down at a push.  Its not like it was 20 years ago for various reasons.  The football is dire, people now have many other interests in their lives and probably most importantly the ticket prices are a scandal.

Two nice stands with a few corporate boxes and open terrace at either end would do the job, like a smaller version of Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.


Like what?

Schools, roads, hospital waiting lists, payrises for nurses off the top of my head

You can make that argument for all public spending. There's always something better to spend public money on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.


Like what?

Schools, roads, hospital waiting lists, payrises for nurses off the top of my head

You can make that argument for all public spending. There's always something better to spend public money on.

Nobody ever asks why we spend money on defence, or weapons. Where's that money coming from to give public sector pay rises? Yet to support the largest sport in the North all of a sudden it's too much money, too big. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2021, 09:58:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 24, 2021, 06:43:20 PM
Casement is to the GAA what Brexit is to the DUP.
Push like fcuk for the biggest you can get. Dismiss all the warnings. Ignore everyone else's wishes. Blinkered on their own version of the end product - don't care how we get there.
Balls the whole thing up for yourself.
Refuse to take responsibility. Blame everyone else.
Demand someone pulls you out of the massive hole you dug with your own greedy and arrogant little shovel.

Clowns.

Nonsense why shouldn't we build a stadium that's fit for the future. I remember when 25k turned up to watch Tyrone V Armagh in McKenna cup at Casement. Dream big, build big, achieve big.

I remember that match well! Was a busy casement that day
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 24, 2021, 06:43:20 PM
Casement is to the GAA what Brexit is to the DUP.
Push like fcuk for the biggest you can get. Dismiss all the warnings. Ignore everyone else's wishes. Blinkered on their own version of the end product - don't care how we get there.
Balls the whole thing up for yourself.
Refuse to take responsibility. Blame everyone else.
Demand someone pulls you out of the massive hole you dug with your own greedy and arrogant little shovel.

Clowns.

Nonsense why shouldn't we build a stadium that's fit for the future. I remember when 25k turned up to watch Tyrone V Armagh in McKenna cup at Casement. Dream big, build big, achieve big.

Fine. So lets go. We are 15 years into the process, any day now
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:16:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.


Like what?

Schools, roads, hospital waiting lists, payrises for nurses off the top of my head

You can make that argument for all public spending. There's always something better to spend public money on.

Nobody ever asks why we spend money on defence, or weapons. Where's that money coming from to give public sector pay rises? Yet to support the largest sport in the North all of a sudden it's too much money, too big.

The largest sport in the 6 counties got sorted years ago.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/535202/most-participated-sports-physical-activities-north-ireland-uk/

The GAA fucked this up from day 1.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
On that site?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
On that site?

I'm not dying about the site and have said a good few times on this thread that moving it somewhere more central would be a better idea. But it needs built and the NI Gov fund it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 11:17:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
On that site?

I'm not dying about the site and have said a good few times on this thread that moving it somewhere more central would be a better idea. But it needs built and the NI Gov fund it.

But the current charlatans are incapable of building it and the funds will be pulled eventually
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2021, 11:31:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
To watch boring orgies of defensive handball and everyone knowing it's all irrelevant as the Monster will continue to win the AI?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 08:07:43 AM
I watched London Irish playing at the weekend at their new stadium and thought something similar would be perfect for Casement. About 18k all seater built for about £70 million in an awkward site in London,  so please don't tell me we can't get a decent stadium for the available funds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: City Dweller on February 25, 2021, 08:11:06 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: City Dweller on February 24, 2021, 06:24:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2021, 05:44:05 PM
So while in the one hand the GAA could use the money they have been given to get a good modern stadium fit for semi finals and most finals at say a 25k capacity ( and most importantly would get Antrim their home back), you want to spend whatever it takes to get another 10k in which will be filled once every 3 years for the sake of saying the 6 counties have a stadium which is as good as anywhere else in the country.

The GAA should be told to take the money they are getting or f**k off as there are a lot of other priorities in the north at the minute than filling a few peoples ego with a big white elephant.


Like what?

Schools, roads, hospital waiting lists, payrises for nurses off the top of my head


So should spending on sports, arts etc  just be stopped?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 25, 2021, 08:15:09 AM
No they should spend the money they have been given, be grateful and not ask for anymore.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on February 25, 2021, 08:16:22 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 08:07:43 AM
I watched London Irish playing at the weekend at their new stadium and thought something similar would be perfect for Casement. About 18k all seater built for about £70 million in an awkward site in London,  so please don't tell me we can't get a decent stadium for the available funds.

It is quite ugly but I get the point.  Is there a new to be covered the whole way around ?  Some people like standing in the terrace.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:51:44 AM
18k isn't big enough. We need something that future proofs our games. Fit to hold Ulster championship games.
Some of you might be old enough to remember the Taylor report. Stadia in England were brought up to scratch. The experience became better, bringing a family was more enjoyable. Attendances increased. Would my wife go to watch Tyrone V Armagh in Clones in an uncovered stand, with poor toilet facilities, and a shitty wooden seat? Absolutely not and I wouldn't blame her, but she often comes to Croker. She hates the experience you get in the old unsuitable grounds. That happened in Eng as well. The Stadia got better, the experience got better and the fans came. It'll be the same with this stadium.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:53:05 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 25, 2021, 07:19:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
On that site?

I'm not dying about the site and have said a good few times on this thread that moving it somewhere more central would be a better idea. But it needs built and the NI Gov fund it.
Perhaps the executive should fund it, however, they could decide not to extend their funding beyond the original £62m. What's the play then?

I imagine what is achievable with the £77m banked is diminishing with every passing year. Do we just continue to hold in the hope that they blink?

Nobody pulls the funding if they want to get elected ever again. Political suicide. Not going to happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2021, 10:39:59 AM
Realism required here lads and lassies.
Build what ye can with what ye've got allocated already by Stormont and the GAA.
The GAA won't have any money to give till the end of the 2022 Championship while Stormont...... ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 25, 2021, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:53:05 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 25, 2021, 07:19:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
38k all seater is actually conservative. We should aim for a 60k stadium, cause that's what'll be required in the future.
On that site?

I'm not dying about the site and have said a good few times on this thread that moving it somewhere more central would be a better idea. But it needs built and the NI Gov fund it.
Perhaps the executive should fund it, however, they could decide not to extend their funding beyond the original £62m. What's the play then?

I imagine what is achievable with the £77m banked is diminishing with every passing year. Do we just continue to hold in the hope that they blink?

Nobody pulls the funding if they want to get elected ever again. Political suicide. Not going to happen.

You are deluding yourself

Even the 6c GAA folk on here blame the UC.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:51:44 AM
18k isn't big enough. We need something that future proofs our games. Fit to hold Ulster championship games.
Make it 25k then and I'm sure if the will was there you could do it for 70 million, if they were able to build 18k in West London. It is really a decision on whether you build something suitable for 99% of the fixtures or do.you build something for the 2 games a year when the capacity "could" be over 25k. It started out as a vanity project and is now a political football - if it had actually been managed at the outset with the best interests of Antrim GAA, Ulster GAA to a lesser extent, and the local area at heart, it could have been built by now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2021, 01:09:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:51:44 AM
18k isn't big enough. We need something that future proofs our games. Fit to hold Ulster championship games.
Make it 25k then and I'm sure if the will was there you could do it for 70 million, if they were able to build 18k in West London. It is really a decision on whether you build something suitable for 99% of the fixtures or do.you build something for the 2 games a year when the capacity "could" be over 25k. It started out as a vanity project and is now a political football - if it had actually been managed at the outset with the best interests of Antrim GAA, Ulster GAA to a lesser extent, and the local area at heart, it could have been built by now.

Antrim is only one county and is the least well supported of all, the stadium should be of benefit to everyone in the 6 counties at least.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 25, 2021, 01:17:05 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:51:44 AM
18k isn't big enough. We need something that future proofs our games. Fit to hold Ulster championship games.
Make it 25k then and I'm sure if the will was there you could do it for 70 million, if they were able to build 18k in West London. It is really a decision on whether you build something suitable for 99% of the fixtures or do.you build something for the 2 games a year when the capacity "could" be over 25k. It started out as a vanity project and is now a political football - if it had actually been managed at the outset with the best interests of Antrim GAA, Ulster GAA to a lesser extent, and the local area at heart, it could have been built by now.

When it comes to projects the GAA seem to get done by the builders every time either that or something dodgy is going on. I have shown this example before. The new stand at McHale and the new stand at Leicester rugby were built at the same time for the same capacity for the same money. One looks ten times better >:(

(http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/McHale-Park_1473241336.jpg)

(http://www.caunton.co.uk/media/1/127/127.jpg)

I would be amazed if the GAA could replicate Brentford/london Irish stadium for the same price and thats in London ffs

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 01:19:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2021, 01:09:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:51:44 AM
18k isn't big enough. We need something that future proofs our games. Fit to hold Ulster championship games.
Make it 25k then and I'm sure if the will was there you could do it for 70 million, if they were able to build 18k in West London. It is really a decision on whether you build something suitable for 99% of the fixtures or do.you build something for the 2 games a year when the capacity "could" be over 25k. It started out as a vanity project and is now a political football - if it had actually been managed at the outset with the best interests of Antrim GAA, Ulster GAA to a lesser extent, and the local area at heart, it could have been built by now.

Antrim is only one county and is the least well supported of all, the stadium should be of benefit to everyone in the 6 counties at least.
Antrim haven't had a proper county ground since this started. Last I checked the rest of Ulster did.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2021, 03:57:56 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 25, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2021, 01:09:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 25, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 08:51:44 AM
18k isn't big enough. We need something that future proofs our games. Fit to hold Ulster championship games.
Make it 25k then and I'm sure if the will was there you could do it for 70 million, if they were able to build 18k in West London. It is really a decision on whether you build something suitable for 99% of the fixtures or do.you build something for the 2 games a year when the capacity "could" be over 25k. It started out as a vanity project and is now a political football - if it had actually been managed at the outset with the best interests of Antrim GAA, Ulster GAA to a lesser extent, and the local area at heart, it could have been built by now.

Antrim is only one county and is the least well supported of all, the stadium should be of benefit to everyone in the 6 counties at least.
A salient point.

If the other counties could make a monetary contribution to the project reflective of what Antrim have handed over, I dare say there would no longer be an outstanding £33m.

It will still be of more benefit to Antrim than other counties, who have fund raised for their our grounds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 26, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
You would wonder will it ever be built in this era.. When you look at what the IFA built and Ulster Rugby built on lesser grants, but with less strategic opposition.  The implications of the delays will continue to be felt most by Antrim Gaels every year until this opens.  If the project cannot start soon, the Antrim county board should be returned the deeds of their asset for sale or development, so they can push on with their own plans. Croke Park / Ulster GAA then need to help Antrim here to get back on their feet.  Is the Maze still available as a greenfield site? A very sorry saga...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: keep her low this half on February 26, 2021, 12:03:53 PM
If money is tight at present is there not the possibility to build 2 or 3 sides, (I know its meant to be a bowl) and finish off the project as and when the GAA can raise the required money to complete the project. So in Three years time we have an 18,000 seater stadium, in 5 years 25,000 and in 10 years 34,000. It gets the project moving, ties down the planning permission and gets games being played there. 18,000 covers all Antrim and Ulster club championship games as well as all Antrim national league matches and first round championship games. As capacity rises the ulster semi finals and finals can be moved there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 26, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 26, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
You would wonder will it ever be built in this era.. When you look at what the IFA built and Ulster Rugby built on lesser grants, but with less strategic opposition.  The implications of the delays will continue to be felt most by Antrim Gaels every year until this opens.  If the project cannot start soon, the Antrim county board should be returned the deeds of their asset for sale or development, so they can push on with their own plans. Croke Park / Ulster GAA then need to help Antrim here to get back on their feet.  Is the Maze still available as a greenfield site? A very sorry saga...
What strategic opposition?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on February 26, 2021, 05:28:25 PM
From a plan point of view, it's clear that Ulster GAA were looking at the stadium to be a revenue generator in regards to conferences etc. Also when Ireland finally get to host a world cup rugby finals, Ireland need 8 stadiums, and Casement would help fit the bill in the north. I thing the GAA is thinking bigger picture rather than just an Antrim home, and to be honest, with the success of Croke Park they (GAA) usually make good decisions on these matters

I am torn about it. I've played championship games in Casement where the stand was full but the embankment was empty and the atmosphere was good but not great. I've played championship games in Cargin and Moneyglass where the crowds were less and the atmosphere was great.

So from an Antrim point of view, do we need a 34k stadium???

The really smart solution would have been for Antrim to upgrade Corrigan, Cargin and possibly Ballycastle to 10-15k stadiums and let Ulster manage Casement, then they could have the best of both worlds. Play NFL and NHL matches in the regional grounds. Play championship games in the regional grounds and Ulster Championship and County finals in the new casement.

I'd love Antrim to be able to run off a finals type day that they did in NY, where there could be anything up to 5 finals on the one day. Great atmosphere and some craic
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2021, 05:57:06 PM
The really good thing for Antrim would be to more people going to their games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 26, 2021, 06:31:25 PM
From an Antrim POV kickhasmcsc we have absolutely no need for a 34k stadium. I could count on one hand the number of times I have been in a full casement and they mostly were neutral Ulster championship matches . A 20 odd k stadium would.

County finals etc by all means put them there but maybe rotate. I would have been to more hurling games out of casement than football but to be honest I find the atmosphere great, and probably much better, at the games in north Antrim. I actually really like Dunloy for the county finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: From the Bunker on February 26, 2021, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on February 26, 2021, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on February 26, 2021, 05:28:25 PM
From a plan point of view, it's clear that Ulster GAA were looking at the stadium to be a revenue generator in regards to conferences etc. Also when Ireland finally get to host a world cup rugby finals, Ireland need 8 stadiums, and Casement would help fit the bill in the north. I thing the GAA is thinking bigger picture rather than just an Antrim home, and to be honest, with the success of Croke Park they (GAA) usually make good decisions on these matters

It's funny you should say that as I have been thinking the opposite and that the GAA need to get a grip on things in this dept. Croke Park was a success but has the GAA been dining out on it since/got the name as an early riser?

How have their major stadium redevelopments fared since? Casement & Páirc Uí Chaoimh have been a shitshow. The Athletic Grounds redevelopment was a shambles* too for long enough.

I definitely think it's an area that the GAA should be seeking to improve.

*Not an Armagh City pun btw.

Croke Park is one of the reasons that the Inter-county (football) game is a shambles. Croke Park has become all about selling Dublin and little else outside of that matters. John Horan being President has done little but sell that more the last 3 years. Then again why would a proud Dub do otherwise?

Corporate Boxes, Newspapers, Advertisers, Sponsors, TV rights, it's all about keeping the Capital happy or more so not saying anything to upset them.  The GAA needs a strong Dublin - and it has a strong Dublin and a fine stadium to accommodate that bias.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 27, 2021, 09:24:15 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 26, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 26, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
You would wonder will it ever be built in this era.. When you look at what the IFA built and Ulster Rugby built on lesser grants, but with less strategic opposition.  The implications of the delays will continue to be felt most by Antrim Gaels every year until this opens.  If the project cannot start soon, the Antrim county board should be returned the deeds of their asset for sale or development, so they can push on with their own plans. Croke Park / Ulster GAA then need to help Antrim here to get back on their feet.  Is the Maze still available as a greenfield site? A very sorry saga...
What strategic opposition?
no need to ask me surely you know or suspect the rainbow coalition that got the park stopped. Some were principled, some were Patsies, some were politicians, some just pulled the strings. It was never going to be built in NI..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 27, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
At this moment you could hold Antrim games in a phone box for all that turn up. So this stadium isn't really about Antrim. Once they get their house in order the fans will return. This is a county board who couldn't get 24 jerseys together that were all the same. So Antrim county board critiquing anyone is a bit rich. Get your stuff sorted and then you'll have teams that people want to watch. It's a disgrace that they don't have a half decent football team based on population alone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pbat on February 27, 2021, 02:34:47 PM
I think Antrim should appoint a contractor if only for strip out. If machines are moving and looks like progress the momentum may gather a bit more pace. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tiempo on February 27, 2021, 05:13:39 PM
The inability to deliver this project and a meaningful reboot in Gaelic games in Antrim post The Agreement while "make Dublin great again" blows up in everyone's face is a stain on the GAA. I appreciate Croke might not be directly responsible but the fact both have been allowed to meander to this point reflects badly on a generation of CP top brass.

Sad to say I can't see much changing on either any time soon, Saff Gaels have been shafted and deserve a lot better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 27, 2021, 05:46:23 PM
Quick history lesson. Football only. Pre troubles, Hogan Cup winners 69 Runners Up (with different school) in 70.

all Ireland U 21 football champions 69.

Andy McCallin won an All Star in 71. Was on record recently saying he played on good Railway Cup teams back then (when it was a massive competition played in front of a full house at Croke Pk) alongside 5 Antrim starters in the winning Ulster team

Ulster senior football finalists 68 and 70, ask the great Down players of that era did they respect Antrim. They will tell you Antrim were up there with the best.

Did the troubles hit Antrim harder than the rest. I'd argue undisputably yes

Time for reboot.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 02, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
So the capacity will need to be increased from the proposed 34500 to over 40000 for this FIFA world cup bid then ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 27, 2021, 05:46:23 PM
Quick history lesson. Football only. Pre troubles, Hogan Cup winners 69 Runners Up (with different school) in 70.

all Ireland U 21 football champions 69.

Andy McCallin won an All Star in 71. Was on record recently saying he played on good Railway Cup teams back then (when it was a massive competition played in front of a full house at Croke Pk) alongside 5 Antrim starters in the winning Ulster team

Ulster senior football finalists 68 and 70, ask the great Down players of that era did they respect Antrim. They will tell you Antrim were up there with the best.

Did the troubles hit Antrim harder than the rest. I'd argue undisputably yes

Time for reboot.

Forgot about the troubles and them being completely localised to Antrim. What is Antrim's excuse for the last 20 years?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 02, 2021, 03:06:22 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 02, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
So the capacity will need to be increased from the proposed 34500 to over 40000 for this FIFA world cup bid then ;)

I was thinking that. Great opportunity to get something built for this bid as Windsor falls well below the 40k minimum capacity. But it would have to be in Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: delgany on March 02, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 02, 2021, 03:06:22 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 02, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
So the capacity will need to be increased from the proposed 34500 to over 40000 for this FIFA world cup bid then ;)

I was thinking that. Great opportunity to get something built for this bid as Windsor falls well below the 40k minimum capacity. But it would have to be in Belfast

That's the £35m shortfall taken care off , then
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: bannside on February 27, 2021, 05:46:23 PM
Quick history lesson. Football only. Pre troubles, Hogan Cup winners 69 Runners Up (with different school) in 70.

all Ireland U 21 football champions 69.

Andy McCallin won an All Star in 71. Was on record recently saying he played on good Railway Cup teams back then (when it was a massive competition played in front of a full house at Croke Pk) alongside 5 Antrim starters in the winning Ulster team

Ulster senior football finalists 68 and 70, ask the great Down players of that era did they respect Antrim. They will tell you Antrim were up there with the best.

Did the troubles hit Antrim harder than the rest. I'd argue undisputably yes

Time for reboot.

Forgot about the troubles and them being completely localised to Antrim. What is Antrim's excuse for the last 20 years?

Hurling has taken a bit of a dip but we are back in Div 1..

Football is shite sure, and by most posters on here dead
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 14, 2021, 10:53:16 PM
Declan Lynch wheeled out yet again, seemingly in a Sinn Fein capacity due to the dig at Nichola Mallon, to tell us we need Casement built and it will be great to see the All Blacks play at Casement  :-\
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 15, 2021, 09:33:27 AM
His overlap between politics and antrim gaa is a bit much to me tbh(as an antrim man). I'm an antrim person and if I were interested enough in the all blacks I could see them at ravenhill or go to the Aviva. I want to see Antrim games in front of big crowds(for antrim levels which means not 35k but 15-20k) at home so we can get ulster football matches there and can get the big guns up in the hurling if we can manage to stay there. The all blacks etc are peripheral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 16, 2021, 12:59:27 AM
There's something about this whole Casement redevelopment which I don't understand.

When the original 38k capacity was first proposed by the GAA, Stormont's Safety Technical Group estimated that:

"... only only around 18,000 people could safely evacuate a redeveloped Casement in west Belfast if the Andersonstown Road was closed.
Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on residential streets."

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/)

(https://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2016/03/14/175537507-70f3352f-1f21-4a23-8dc4-cd8688dc8384.jpg)

[Also this, which I can't read behind their paywall? https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/content.html) ]

So if it was deemed nowhere near safe for 38k, what has changed since to make it safe for 34k?

And on what basis could Nichola Mallon now recommend that 34k go ahead?

I think I read somewhere that the GAA was going to buy some land leading out towards Stockman's Lane, so maybe that might alleviate the problem? (I don't know for certain whether they have, nor am I familiar with the area)

Anyhow, if the local residents were successful in challenging the original plan on safety grounds, could they not do so again for the new plan?



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2021, 01:53:02 AM
If you look at a Google aerial pic (https://goo.gl/maps/ZaSV3RooihKfU7mV9) of those parts, it wouldn't take that much to facilitate egress towards both the M1 Stockman's lane junction and towards Finnaghy Road. If you demolish one house the width of a house would allow a lot of people flow through.
I'm not sure what was done, but I'm sure it could be done. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 16, 2021, 10:54:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2021, 01:53:02 AM
If you look at a Google aerial pic (https://goo.gl/maps/ZaSV3RooihKfU7mV9) of those parts, it wouldn't take that much to facilitate egress towards both the M1 Stockman's lane junction and towards Finnaghy Road. If you demolish one house the width of a house would allow a lot of people flow through.
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but surely it would take much more than one house demolition to get you even near to the M1/Stockmans junction. Whilst the Finaghy Road is the other direction entirely.

And in any case, would trying to evacuate (potentially) thousands of people through a house-width not just make things worse, by creating a pinch point?

And what if the emergency occurred at that point?

Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2021, 01:53:02 AM
I'm not sure what was done, but I'm sure it could be done.
In which case, why hasn't the GAA already done so? I mean, they've had more than 5 years since the original scheme was rejected by Judicial Review.

I'm genuinely not stirring, and I accept I may be missing something here, but it still fails to add up to me from the original safety objection.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2021, 11:25:35 AM
Meanwhile by De Banks..
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40244954.html

Its not a 45,000 "seater", its 45,000 capacity.
Lazy journalists!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrdub on March 16, 2021, 01:12:13 PM
Just been asked a question I couldn't answer....what was the last match played in Casement Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 16, 2021, 01:12:13 PM
Just been asked a question I couldn't answer....what was the last match played in Casement Park?

Was it the junior final? Im not sure tbh
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrdub on March 18, 2021, 08:42:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 16, 2021, 01:12:13 PM
Just been asked a question I couldn't answer....what was the last match played in Casement Park?

Was it the junior final? Im not sure tbh

2 different people told me it was the Match for Michaela, but I think you're right. Just can't confirm it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:30:34 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 18, 2021, 08:42:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 16, 2021, 01:12:13 PM
Just been asked a question I couldn't answer....what was the last match played in Casement Park?

Was it the junior final? Im not sure tbh

2 different people told me it was the Match for Michaela, but I think you're right. Just can't confirm it

Yeah it could have been that in fairness, that was under lights in late October? I just remember something at the time that it being a club game of sorts
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on March 18, 2021, 12:24:57 PM
I'm not fully up on all the facilities available in Antrim but why have the county board not enhanced one ground up to a reasonable level in all this time that Casement has been closed? Reasonable sized stand, with standing areas right round? decent floodlights.

Are they worried that if they invest in somewhere else that Casement will be forgotten about?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 18, 2021, 01:23:40 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 18, 2021, 12:24:57 PM
I'm not fully up on all the facilities available in Antrim but why have the county board not enhanced one ground up to a reasonable level in all this time that Casement has been closed? Reasonable sized stand, with standing areas right round? decent floodlights.

Are they worried that if they invest in somewhere else that Casement will be forgotten about?
Corrigan has had an upgrade with new covered seats and terracing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:28:44 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 18, 2021, 01:23:40 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 18, 2021, 12:24:57 PM
I'm not fully up on all the facilities available in Antrim but why have the county board not enhanced one ground up to a reasonable level in all this time that Casement has been closed? Reasonable sized stand, with standing areas right round? decent floodlights.

Are they worried that if they invest in somewhere else that Casement will be forgotten about?
Corrigan has had an upgrade with new covered seats and terracing.

It has, but this season will be the first since 2012 that there is a ground that can take supporters (bigger numbers wise) into a covered stand.

As good as the other grounds were during the closure of Casement, a covered stand during the winter NFL/NHL is a basic requirement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on March 18, 2021, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 16, 2021, 12:59:27 AM
There's something about this whole Casement redevelopment which I don't understand.

When the original 38k capacity was first proposed by the GAA, Stormont's Safety Technical Group estimated that:

"... only only around 18,000 people could safely evacuate a redeveloped Casement in west Belfast if the Andersonstown Road was closed.
Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on residential streets."

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/)

(https://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2016/03/14/175537507-70f3352f-1f21-4a23-8dc4-cd8688dc8384.jpg)

[Also this, which I can't read behind their paywall? https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/content.html) ]

So if it was deemed nowhere near safe for 38k, what has changed since to make it safe for 34k?

And on what basis could Nichola Mallon now recommend that 34k go ahead?

I think I read somewhere that the GAA was going to buy some land leading out towards Stockman's Lane, so maybe that might alleviate the problem? (I don't know for certain whether they have, nor am I familiar with the area)

Anyhow, if the local residents were successful in challenging the original plan on safety grounds, could they not do so again for the new plan?

I believe there was something in the redesign of the stadium where additional exit points from the stadium were designed that directed people away from Anderstown Road. I think (completely open to challenge) that the design contained two or three exit points in the residential streets that solved this particular problem, and that that redesign resulted in the capacity going from 38k to 34k
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 18, 2021, 05:22:19 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on March 18, 2021, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 16, 2021, 12:59:27 AM
There's something about this whole Casement redevelopment which I don't understand.

When the original 38k capacity was first proposed by the GAA, Stormont's Safety Technical Group estimated that:

"... only only around 18,000 people could safely evacuate a redeveloped Casement in west Belfast if the Andersonstown Road was closed.
Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on residential streets."

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/)

[Also this, which I can't read behind their paywall? https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/2016/03/14/news/38-000-casement-park-could-not-be-safely-evacuated-emergency-services-say-448623/content.html) ]

So if it was deemed nowhere near safe for 38k, what has changed since to make it safe for 34k?

And on what basis could Nichola Mallon now recommend that 34k go ahead?

I think I read somewhere that the GAA was going to buy some land leading out towards Stockman's Lane, so maybe that might alleviate the problem? (I don't know for certain whether they have, nor am I familiar with the area)

Anyhow, if the local residents were successful in challenging the original plan on safety grounds, could they not do so again for the new plan?

I believe there was something in the redesign of the stadium where additional exit points from the stadium were designed that directed people away from Anderstown Road. I think (completely open to challenge) that the design contained two or three exit points in the residential streets that solved this particular problem, and that that redesign resulted in the capacity going from 38k to 34k
That might explain it (though I'm not sure how funnelling potentially thousands of fans into confined residential streets in an emergency works, either?)

Still, assuming something relatively straightforward like this will sort it, you have to wonder why the GAA wasted so much time and money fighting for the original plan right up to Judicial Review, esp since an 11% capacity reduction is hardly a huge price to pay, while 34k should be more than adequate for 90% of the games to be played there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 18, 2021, 05:22:19 PM
That might explain it (though I'm not sure how funnelling potentially thousands of fans into confined residential streets in an emergency works, either?)

Still, assuming something relatively straightforward like this will sort it, you have to wonder why the GAA wasted so much time and money fighting for the original plan right up to Judicial Review, esp since an 11% capacity reduction is hardly a huge price to pay, while 34k should be more than adequate for 90% of the games to be played there.

Although largely funded by the public purse, this project seems to have been run on the basis that the GAA should produce a plan and then we'll tell you what is wrong with it. For a large project of public benefit like this, you would expect the emergency authorities to be working closely with the project, but this does not seem to have happened in this case.

The revised proposal has a lot going for it, one wonders why it wasn't produced the first time. I suspect there are several parties at fault here.
The planning process in NI may not be fit for purpose. During the week you have the report on the A5 saying that they should have had a widening of the existing road. Now whether or not that is the right thing to do it should not be coming after many years of design work on a new route. Theoutline plan for Casement or the A5 should have said this what we are generally trying to do and any general objections rather than detailed ones should have been made then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 18, 2021, 11:38:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 18, 2021, 05:22:19 PM
That might explain it (though I'm not sure how funnelling potentially thousands of fans into confined residential streets in an emergency works, either?)

Still, assuming something relatively straightforward like this will sort it, you have to wonder why the GAA wasted so much time and money fighting for the original plan right up to Judicial Review, esp since an 11% capacity reduction is hardly a huge price to pay, while 34k should be more than adequate for 90% of the games to be played there.

Although largely funded by the public purse, this project seems to have been run on the basis that the GAA should produce a plan and then we'll tell you what is wrong with it. For a large project of public benefit like this, you would expect the emergency authorities to be working closely with the project, but this does not seem to have happened in this case.

The revised proposal has a lot going for it, one wonders why it wasn't produced the first time. I suspect there are several parties at fault here.
The planning process in NI may not be fit for purpose. During the week you have the report on the A5 saying that they should have had a widening of the existing road. Now whether or not that is the right thing to do it should not be coming after many years of design work on a new route. Theoutline plan for Casement or the A5 should have said this what we are generally trying to do and any general objections rather than detailed ones should have been made then.
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that's how it works  (or should, at any rate).

When coming up with a plan, you don't just use architects, engineers and builders to design something to your specification, you also appoint Consultants to advise you on specific areas such as H&S.

Their expertise lies in being experienced in what will pass (very often they used to work in the relevant department before joining the private sector), meaning they can advise on what is workable, not just what is technically possible.  Much of that involves liaising with departmental officials along the way, in order to avoid any shocks when you finally present your proposal.

And considering how the GAA appear also to have failed eg the Public Relations test (even Antrim GAA was hardly solidly behind it, never mind the local residents), who's to say they didn't fail the Planning test, too?

As for officials just waiting to "say what was wrong with it", there was no sign of that with the submissions by the IFA and IRFU.

Meanwhile re the A5, that was always going to be political (both small "p" and large "P"), with numerous interested parties and two governments to satisfy and complex legal hurdles to overcome, all the while having a much greater budget. It was also inevitably going to have a much longer timescale, even if everything went smoothly. Meaning we shouldn't be too surprised at major delays.

Whereas once the Maze stadium was finally canned and the money divided out for the three stadia instead, the Politicians (big "P") were all either on board, or no longer interested and the money was there. Plus all told, this was amuch more modest project than the A5.

I suspect that the people behind it at the GAA, used to negotiating big projects successfully in the Republic, assumed that this one would go through equally smoothly in NI, and so may have been overconfident.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2021, 01:30:57 AM
The GAA made a hames of Casement, some involvement from the south would probably have helped. The IRFU and IFA were developing grounds, but not really changing their character or intensity of use,  Casement had fallen in substantial disuse and the so would have been changed more by the plan.

AS for the A5, I cannot see how a planning inquiry can say after decade and a half that the the road is the wrong idea, although they are of course obliged to address  issues like the currency of the flood reports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 18, 2021, 05:22:19 PM
That might explain it (though I'm not sure how funnelling potentially thousands of fans into confined residential streets in an emergency works, either?)

Still, assuming something relatively straightforward like this will sort it, you have to wonder why the GAA wasted so much time and money fighting for the original plan right up to Judicial Review, esp since an 11% capacity reduction is hardly a huge price to pay, while 34k should be more than adequate for 90% of the games to be played there.

Although largely funded by the public purse, this project seems to have been run on the basis that the GAA should produce a plan and then we'll tell you what is wrong with it. For a large project of public benefit like this, you would expect the emergency authorities to be working closely with the project, but this does not seem to have happened in this case.

The revised proposal has a lot going for it, one wonders why it wasn't produced the first time. I suspect there are several parties at fault here.
The planning process in NI may not be fit for purpose. During the week you have the report on the A5 saying that they should have had a widening of the existing road. Now whether or not that is the right thing to do it should not be coming after many years of design work on a new route. Theoutline plan for Casement or the A5 should have said this what we are generally trying to do and any general objections rather than detailed ones should have been made then.

Some waste of oxygen on this subject.

what you might wnat to do is talk to Building Control in Belfast City Council, who oversee the plans, the escape routes, the amount and size of exits, their locations etc etc....they didnt have any issue whatsoever with the original plans.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 09:38:31 AM
Some waste of oxygen on this subject.

what you might wnat to do is talk to Building Control in Belfast City Council, who oversee the plans, the escape routes, the amount and size of exits, their locations etc etc....they didnt have any issue whatsoever with the original plans.

I am not familiar with the detail here. If these lads were happy then how was it overturned afterwards?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 19, 2021, 01:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 09:38:31 AM
Some waste of oxygen on this subject.

what you might wnat to do is talk to Building Control in Belfast City Council, who oversee the plans, the escape routes, the amount and size of exits, their locations etc etc....they didnt have any issue whatsoever with the original plans.
Link?

Meanwhile, from The Irish News, March 2016:

HOUSEHOLDERS living near Casement Park have welcomed a report by emergency services that raises concerns over the capacity of a proposed new GAA stadium.

The Irish News yesterday revealed officials estimate that only around 18,000 people could safely evacuate a redeveloped Casement in west Belfast if the Andersonstown Road was closed.

Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on residential streets.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2021, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 09:38:31 AM
Some waste of oxygen on this subject.

what you might wnat to do is talk to Building Control in Belfast City Council, who oversee the plans, the escape routes, the amount and size of exits, their locations etc etc....they didnt have any issue whatsoever with the original plans.

I am not familiar with the detail here. If these lads were happy then how was it overturned afterwards?

You might have to ask the authorities or the planners or someone else who has time to waste on this
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 19, 2021, 01:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 09:38:31 AM
Some waste of oxygen on this subject.

what you might wnat to do is talk to Building Control in Belfast City Council, who oversee the plans, the escape routes, the amount and size of exits, their locations etc etc....they didnt have any issue whatsoever with the original plans.
Link?

Meanwhile, from The Irish News, March 2016:

HOUSEHOLDERS living near Casement Park have welcomed a report by emergency services that raises concerns over the capacity of a proposed new GAA stadium.

The Irish News yesterday revealed officials estimate that only around 18,000 people could safely evacuate a redeveloped Casement in west Belfast if the Andersonstown Road was closed.

Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on residential streets.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/)

why would i want to put up a link on a subject I have heard at first hand from the people who looked at it?
why do oyu keep posting up about police, fire , ambulance? I mentioned BC in BCC, how about you go do the donkey work and ask them yourself?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 19, 2021, 03:44:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 19, 2021, 01:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 19, 2021, 09:38:31 AM
Some waste of oxygen on this subject.

what you might wnat to do is talk to Building Control in Belfast City Council, who oversee the plans, the escape routes, the amount and size of exits, their locations etc etc....they didnt have any issue whatsoever with the original plans.
Link?

Meanwhile, from The Irish News, March 2016:

HOUSEHOLDERS living near Casement Park have welcomed a report by emergency services that raises concerns over the capacity of a proposed new GAA stadium.

The Irish News yesterday revealed officials estimate that only around 18,000 people could safely evacuate a redeveloped Casement in west Belfast if the Andersonstown Road was closed.

Police, fire and ambulance officials also warn that in a 'worst-case' scenario just over 11,200 fans could safely exit if cars are parked on residential streets.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/03/15/news/casement-park-emergency-services-report-highly-significant-say-residents-450296/)

why would i want to put up a link on a subject I have heard at first hand from the people who looked at it?
why do oyu keep posting up about police, fire , ambulance? I mentioned BC in BCC, how about you go do the donkey work and ask them yourself?
The reason I posted about police, fire, ambulance etc was because it was their objections which originally put the kibosh on a 38k Casement in 2015, subsequently confirmed by a Judicial Review.

Leading me to wonder what had changed since then to make 34k capacity acceptable.

Your bringing BC at BCC doesn't affect that query, unless you can demonstrate how BCC have somehow overcome the earlier objections.

In which case, back to you.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FarneyMan on April 26, 2021, 04:08:31 PM
Clones making redevelopment plans.
No funding in place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=427576608572844&id=308968592448247
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: From the Bunker on April 26, 2021, 05:44:22 PM
Quote from: FarneyMan on April 26, 2021, 04:08:31 PM
Clones making redevelopment plans.
No funding in place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=427576608572844&id=308968592448247

Wow there looks to be a lot of Walls, Steps, and cement signage. Impressive!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 26, 2021, 06:11:50 PM
It'll be finished before casement!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on April 26, 2021, 08:36:57 PM
Quote from: FarneyMan on April 26, 2021, 04:08:31 PM
Clones making redevelopment plans.
No funding in place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=427576608572844&id=308968592448247
Are they just doing the entrance?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 26, 2021, 09:21:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2021, 05:44:22 PM
Quote from: FarneyMan on April 26, 2021, 04:08:31 PM
Clones making redevelopment plans.
No funding in place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=427576608572844&id=308968592448247

Wow there looks to be a lot of Walls, Steps, and cement signage. Impressive!

And a new jacks, which wouldn't be any harm.
Derry must be playing Antrim, there aren't too many people around.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 26, 2021, 09:21:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 26, 2021, 05:44:22 PM
Quote from: FarneyMan on April 26, 2021, 04:08:31 PM
Clones making redevelopment plans.
No funding in place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=427576608572844&id=308968592448247

Wow there looks to be a lot of Walls, Steps, and cement signage. Impressive!

And a new jacks, which wouldn't be any harm.
Derry must be playing Antrim, there aren't too many people around.

Thought it was an Applegreen there for a minute.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2021, 12:39:51 PM
Quote from: FarneyMan on April 26, 2021, 04:08:31 PM
Clones making redevelopment plans.
No funding in place...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=427576608572844&id=308968592448247

That 3d visual walk through probably cost €10k. Money well spent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on April 28, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
So Ulster have fooked up Casement, and before its sorted they are kickstarting a Clones project!

How much would this project cost, and will it be competing for funds with Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2021, 06:02:59 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on April 28, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
So Ulster have fooked up Casement, and before its sorted they are kickstarting a Clones project!

How much would this project cost, and will it be competing for funds with Casement?

I read this as shots fired. Clones reminding the Ulster council that they have a stadium and the politicking within.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 28, 2021, 12:12:08 PM
Planning permission granted.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: TheGreatest on July 28, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 28, 2021, 12:12:08 PM
Planning permission granted.


Great news
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Truth hurts on July 28, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Well done Nichola Mallon, about time
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: skeog on July 28, 2021, 12:47:12 PM
2025 be nice to see it opened.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 28, 2021, 01:10:05 PM
Exciting day for Antrim and Ulster Gaels. Well done all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on July 28, 2021, 03:18:49 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-57995132

QuoteIt is not clear yet exactly how the project will be funded as the new stadium is expected to cost at least £110m, which is more than £30m above the original estimate.

The construction on the Andersonstown Road could be subject to legal challenge by west Belfast residents who have in the past argued that the stadium is too large to be built in a heavily-populated area.

The initial cost of the new stadium was estimated at £77m, with the GAA making a contribution.

Most of the money will come from the Stormont executive.

Big question is where the money is going to come from.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:10:00 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 28, 2021, 03:18:49 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-57995132

QuoteIt is not clear yet exactly how the project will be funded as the new stadium is expected to cost at least £110m, which is more than £30m above the original estimate.

The construction on the Andersonstown Road could be subject to legal challenge by west Belfast residents who have in the past argued that the stadium is too large to be built in a heavily-populated area.

The initial cost of the new stadium was estimated at £77m, with the GAA making a contribution.

Most of the money will come from the Stormont executive.

Big question is where the money is going to come from.

A few Nathan Carter concerts would cover that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on July 28, 2021, 04:16:59 PM
Great to see Nichola Mallon and her SDLP team push this through. Shows you what can be done when we get the right people into the right positions.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pbat on July 28, 2021, 05:35:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 28, 2021, 04:16:59 PM
Great to see Nichola Mallon and her SDLP team push this through. Shows you what can be done when we get the right people into the right positions.

Get it out to Tender get it started as quick as possible. I have a D8 in it Monday morning.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 28, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 28, 2021, 01:10:05 PM
Exciting day for Antrim and Ulster Gaels. Well done all.

Not really. Should never have gone ahead in that location. Shambles
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on July 28, 2021, 06:52:35 PM
How many times per year will it get a 34,500 crowd?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on July 28, 2021, 06:59:19 PM
Only maybe Ulster football games. We don't have that many supporters in antrim :(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2021, 07:38:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2021, 06:59:19 PM
Only maybe Ulster football games. We don't have that many supporters in antrim :(

Now is the time to get them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 28, 2021, 07:52:21 PM
A fella on Twitter under a BBC report said it was would be filled every week as it won't just be county matches but will also be used for junior championship finals etc  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2021, 07:57:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 28, 2021, 07:52:21 PM
A fella on Twitter under a BBC report said it was would be filled every week as it won't just be county matches but will also be used for junior championship finals etc  ;D


Hope for you yet lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: StPatsAbu on July 28, 2021, 08:13:15 PM
Let the gravy train commence. Will be like Croker where every skanger in the country had their fingers in the pie and it made millions for Sean Quinn despite supplying nothing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on July 28, 2021, 08:36:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 28, 2021, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 28, 2021, 04:16:59 PM
Great to see Nichola Mallon and her SDLP team push this through. Shows you what can be done when we get the right people into the right positions.
Let's hope it is more successful (and lawful) than the previous one that Mark H Durkan and his SDLP team pushed through that ended in an embarrassing shitshow.

Ha!  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on July 28, 2021, 09:38:13 PM
Quote from: dec on July 28, 2021, 06:52:35 PM
How many times per year will it get a 34,500 crowd?

Maybe once, if the Ulster final is played there. I doubt any other game would sell out there. At a push, an Ulster semi depending on the teams involved.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: manfromdelmonte on July 28, 2021, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on July 28, 2021, 08:13:15 PM
Let the gravy train commence. Will be like Croker where every skanger in the country had their fingers in the pie and it made millions for Sean Quinn despite supplying nothing.
Explain how
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 28, 2021, 10:14:33 PM
Everytime i think of Casement I can't get Beetlejuice Ní Cuilín's bake out of my head. oul scare the wains
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 28, 2021, 11:17:03 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 28, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 28, 2021, 10:14:33 PM
Everytime i think of Casement I can't get Beetlejuice Ní Cuilín's bake out of my head. oul scare the wains
It would be hard for anyone to defend Caral Ní Chuilin's role in this saga. She is one of a number of people who failed this project.
Attacking her appearance like you have paints a particular picture of you however. And it isn't good.

Come on , a good visit to the hairdresser's would have done her no harm . Work colleague of mines used to call her that . I giggled at the time , I might have poor sense of humour I'll give you that , but I'd not stretch it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 29, 2021, 12:00:23 AM
Hate going to games in Casement Park, brutal to get out off and no decent pubs, Always preferred Clones. It be full for fball for a ulster final and maybe 1 semi with Armagh to me a better evenue for the other semi. How many concerts would it get in a year. Basically like Croke Park, slap on the middle of a residential area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on July 29, 2021, 11:40:49 AM
Get Bono lined up for West Belfast.... he brings a very powerful message with him on all sorts of things.. .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2021, 10:05:13 PM
Hard to get excited when every single facet of this is wrong.

- Not the stadium Antrim need.
- Not a stadium Ulster need.
- A complete waste of public money that is badly needed elsewhere.
- A stadium that will only drive up ticket prices.
- A process that alienates the neighbours before it starts.

Well done Ulster Council. I don't think you could have f**ked it up any more. Yet you continue to insist on travelling down this path.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2021, 12:35:24 AM
Do you think Croke park is a viable location?
How many times a year is Clones used?
Do you not think the second city needs to be 'upgraded'?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 01, 2021, 10:37:46 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

Agree with this
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 01, 2021, 10:38:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2021, 12:35:24 AM
Do you think Croke park is a viable location?
How many times a year is Clones used?
Do you not think the second city needs to be 'upgraded'?

- Not really, but it has a long history of being the principal ground of the association.
- Exactly. Why build another?
- Nope.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 01, 2021, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.

Bin the stadium and open a new Roger Casement ward in the RVH.

With the change, hire some county development officers to go around the schools in Antrim coaching youngsters.

Far better use of the money than the white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 01, 2021, 11:04:33 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 01, 2021, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.

Bin the stadium and open a new Roger Casement ward in the RVH.

With the change, hire some county development officers to go around the schools in Antrim coaching youngsters.

Far better use of the money than the white elephant.

Coaches go around Ulster you mean.  This isn't an Antrim project , it's Ulster money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on August 01, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

There was a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky guff spoken about Pairc Ui Chaoimh being an income generator for Cork GAA, boosting the GAA in the local community and everything short of being a cure for cancer before that rebuild. None of this aspirational build-it-and-they-will-come stuff has panned out at all. [The selling of the naming rights was budgeted to generate 100k in 2016 and 2017. It's now 2021 and not one Euro has been raised from the stadium naming rights.] Lots of contractors in Cork made a nice chunk of change and banks have made a nice chunk of change with their loans to Cork GAA. Stadium has had a literal handful of GAA games with crowds over 30k nevermind 45k.

All you have to do is look at the Ulster Championship attendances over the last decade [pre-Covid], especially outside Ulster Final day and it immediately becomes clear how stupid it is go building a 34.5k capacity stadium at Casement.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 06:36:16 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 01, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

There was a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky guff spoken about Pairc Ui Chaoimh being an income generator for Cork GAA, boosting the GAA in the local community and everything short of being a cure for cancer before that rebuild. None of this aspirational build-it-and-they-will-come stuff has panned out at all. [The selling of the naming rights was budgeted to generate 100k in 2016 and 2017. It's now 2021 and not one Euro has been raised from the stadium naming rights.] Lots of contractors in Cork made a nice chunk of change and banks have made a nice chunk of change with their loans to Cork GAA. Stadium has had a literal handful of GAA games with crowds over 30k nevermind 45k.

All you have to do is look at the Ulster Championship attendances over the last decade [pre-Covid], especially outside Ulster Final day and it immediately becomes clear how stupid it is go building a 34.5k capacity stadium at Casement.

I've no issues with local contractors benefitting from these projects as it provides opportunities and a sense of achievement which can't be underestimated , but the same would be derived from an injection of cash into grassroots
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on August 01, 2021, 10:48:49 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 28, 2021, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on July 28, 2021, 08:13:15 PM
Let the gravy train commence. Will be like Croker where every skanger in the country had their fingers in the pie and it made millions for Sean Quinn despite supplying nothing.
Explain how

Because we are where we are because of shortcuts and generally bad project management. Unfortunately most recent GAA developments have had grease around them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2021, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

Once you sell a big asset like that, it's gone forever. You get a big one-off lump sum, but no more income for all eternity. If you hang onto it, it grows in value into the future while still producing income. I wouldn't be selling off assets like that, especially in the middle of a built-up area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on August 03, 2021, 11:20:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2021, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

Once you sell a big asset like that, it's gone forever. You get a big one-off lump sum, but no more income for all eternity. If you hang onto it, it grows in value into the future while still producing income. I wouldn't be selling off assets like that, especially in the middle of a built-up area.

Unfortunately, a combination of arrogance by the Ulster council in their approach to local residents and internal jockeying for the top job has left us all with the shit show that is Casement in its current state. It's hard to believe there is the political will from any stormont government to cough up 120 odd million  as the GAA sit tight at a capped figure of £15m. The arrogance is off the scale and anyone associated with the 'project' thus far should be asked to seek opportunities elsewhere.
I take no pleasures in predicting that a 35k all seater stadium will never be built as there will not be the funding available to build it. Even if Ulster pony up 30m, there's no chance of 100m+ coming out of government. Have we learnt nothing from the folly in cork. Egos gone mad. Replicate what Ravenhill have at that's more than enough for what's required. If only 20k can get to see an Ulster final due to capacity, then so be it. We need to cut our cloth accordingly and these vanity projects need to be called out for what they are.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 03, 2021, 11:32:41 PM
Good post. Dierdre Hargey on big screen in Croke Park , Mc Geehan tweeting about it and Antrim PRO endorsing it, lick arses everywhere, stinks of desperation
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on August 04, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Casement builds for the future. Flagship project which will stand the test of time for years to come. Bring it on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on August 04, 2021, 12:08:23 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 04, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Casement builds for the future. Flagship project which will stand the test of time for years to come. Bring it on.

Fair enough, agree with that sentiment but at what point does it become unrealistic from a financial perspective. It's now at 140m and rising by the day with inflation and material costs going through the roof.
If it reaches 200m say, does someone have the balls to say, 'no' doesn't represent value for money and isn't justifiable irrespective of the legacy it might leave?

Cork is the perfect example. Has it made any material change to improve gaa in general in the cork county and city?
Has it brought the prosperity and delivered the add ons that were in all the shiny presentations?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on August 04, 2021, 01:01:54 PM
Large projects like this have a long pay back period so it's unfair to judge Pairc Uí Chaoimh as a failure after such a short period of time particularly given the Covid situation. Give it another 10 years at least before casting judgment
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
A bit like when building motorways, 4 line seemed way overboard, some need 5 or 6 lanes now. Let's see if it's built first then judge it after 10 years
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
A bit like when building motorways, 4 line seemed way overboard, some need 5 or 6 lanes now. Let's see if it's built first then judge it after 10 years
I'd agree. There's no point putting too much thought into it now sure if it isn't working out after 10 years you can always unbuild it and get your money back.

Which part of there was no other money other than getting a new Casement built that you don't understand? It was either going into a new Casement or not going anywhere? The size was way too big and no one on here is saying any different..

What's transpired since it being agreed between Ulster council the planning the government has been a shit show. This money was set aside for one thing only. Where will they get the remaining money (if they ever do) who knows, frankly I'm beyond caring TBH

But if its going to be built then why do you actually care?  Really it won't make a bitta difference, we have a new 'home' in Corrigan park to play our county games and it can be developed further, along with our other grounds to have games played at. for the amount of 'fans' that go to games in Antrim the redevelopment of other grounds will provide ample room to watch games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Snapchap on August 04, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on August 04, 2021, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 06:36:16 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 01, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

There was a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky guff spoken about Pairc Ui Chaoimh being an income generator for Cork GAA, boosting the GAA in the local community and everything short of being a cure for cancer before that rebuild. None of this aspirational build-it-and-they-will-come stuff has panned out at all. [The selling of the naming rights was budgeted to generate 100k in 2016 and 2017. It's now 2021 and not one Euro has been raised from the stadium naming rights.] Lots of contractors in Cork made a nice chunk of change and banks have made a nice chunk of change with their loans to Cork GAA. Stadium has had a literal handful of GAA games with crowds over 30k nevermind 45k.

All you have to do is look at the Ulster Championship attendances over the last decade [pre-Covid], especially outside Ulster Final day and it immediately becomes clear how stupid it is go building a 34.5k capacity stadium at Casement.

I've no issues with local contractors benefitting from these projects as it provides opportunities and a sense of achievement which can't be underestimated , but the same would be derived from an injection of cash into grassroots

I've no issues with local contractors benefitting from these projects either as long as they are the best people for the job.
The problem is that I've heard from multiple people that this clearly wasn't the case for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on August 04, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 04, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

This is a good point.
Even though the provincial championship has served ulster well, it's in borrowed time in its current form
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 04, 2021, 06:33:12 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 04, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

Yeah good point.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 04, 2021, 07:18:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 04, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

We already don't have a hurling final. Embarrassing. McGeehan and the fat cats don't seem to care about that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 05:35:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
A bit like when building motorways, 4 line seemed way overboard, some need 5 or 6 lanes now. Let's see if it's built first then judge it after 10 years
I'd agree. There's no point putting too much thought into it now sure if it isn't working out after 10 years you can always unbuild it and get your money back.

Which part of there was no other money other than getting a new Casement built that you don't understand? It was either going into a new Casement or not going anywhere? The size was way too big and no one on here is saying any different..

What's transpired since it being agreed between Ulster council the planning the government has been a shit show. This money was set aside for one thing only. Where will they get the remaining money (if they ever do) who knows, frankly I'm beyond caring TBH

But if its going to be built then why do you actually care?  Really it won't make a bitta difference, we have a new 'home' in Corrigan park to play our county games and it can be developed further, along with our other grounds to have games played at. for the amount of 'fans' that go to games in Antrim the redevelopment of other grounds will provide ample room to watch games
I didn't ever suggest building it elsewhere but keep you building straw men. The reality is that there are options AT CASEMENT beyond praying for a sugar daddy to bail us out to the tune of 60 million quid. Like building an excellent stadium with the 77 million we have.

Anyhow, my point was what is the merit in judging it after 10 years? If we realise we shouldn't have built it, what can we do?

As for the rest of your post, if we don't need it why do we care it is closed?

Where in my post did I suggest you said building it elsewhere? What's are these options you're saying for Casement that hasn't been discussed or been discussed? 

That horse has bolted on the changes that most people want, smaller stadium owned and used by Antrim? That effectively was lost once it was signed over.

All the moaning on this unfortunately won't change a thing, Antrim need to look elsewhere if, as some people think that our club finals and county teams won't be allowed to be played.

So Corrigan and Ballycastle it is
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 09:18:37 PM
I'm going to be honest here, I have absolutely no idea how to answer you. You're posts are so incoherent it is really difficult to know what you are talking about. I will try however.

In your first paragraph, you mention money going into a new Casement or nowhere and that I failed to understand that. I picked that up as you believing I was suggesting an alternative site to Casement.
On your 2nd question, whatever has been discussed or not is irrelevant. 77 million gets you a great stadium and considering how the ground lies I think everything needs to be considered. It is a big ask to find 60 million so I don't think the horse will get too far.
I admire your honesty that Antrim have lost Casement. I don't think a lot of Antrim Gaels appreciate that fact yet. As I say, now that it is so meaningless to us in Antrim why do we care that it's closed?

The money is for the new build at Casement, nowhere meaning if casement wasn't being built then money that was allocated for it was lost, and not available for anything else, no small development, no make over and certainly not available for putting into regenerating Antrim GAA.

This was all agreed at the start. Once SF got involved, who in my opinion looked at this as a flagship for them, then I lost interest right away, it was always going to be resisted by other unionist parties once they got involved, and this in the main, along with the pathetic planning has allowed this to become a shit show.

Are you saying that they should do a replanned stadium and throw more money at it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on August 04, 2021, 09:53:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 09:18:37 PM
I'm going to be honest here, I have absolutely no idea how to answer you. You're posts are so incoherent it is really difficult to know what you are talking about. I will try however.

In your first paragraph, you mention money going into a new Casement or nowhere and that I failed to understand that. I picked that up as you believing I was suggesting an alternative site to Casement.
On your 2nd question, whatever has been discussed or not is irrelevant. 77 million gets you a great stadium and considering how the ground lies I think everything needs to be considered. It is a big ask to find 60 million so I don't think the horse will get too far.
I admire your honesty that Antrim have lost Casement. I don't think a lot of Antrim Gaels appreciate that fact yet. As I say, now that it is so meaningless to us in Antrim why do we care that it's closed?

The money is for the new build at Casement, nowhere meaning if casement wasn't being built then money that was allocated for it was lost, and not available for anything else, no small development, no make over and certainly not available for putting into regenerating Antrim GAA.

This was all agreed at the start. Once SF got involved, who in my opinion looked at this as a flagship for them, then I lost interest right away, it was always going to be resisted by other unionist parties once they got involved, and this in the main, along with the pathetic planning has allowed this to become a shit show.

Are you saying that they should do a replanned stadium and throw more money at it?

Agree that it's turned it into a political football. Grinds my gears when some of these so called gaels get involved. Could it not be built to a more basic spec? Safe standing areas behind the goals for kids/u16s at cheaper prices.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 10:02:13 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 09:46:30 PM
Yes, I do. They've done it before so it can be done again.

What's the alternative? Hope it gets bailed out?

They still have a pile of dough that could build a great stadium. I think Ravenhill was redeveloped for about a quarter of the money the GAA has at its disposal for Casement. A bit of realism wouldn't go amiss.

They, whoever that is, are hell bent on a stadium 30,000 plus and the logic of a Kingspan type stadium is lost on them.

Like I've said I'm beyond caring, bar the nostalgia I've had with Casement and the amazing times l've had there it's gone unfortunately, I'd be happier with a north Antrim venue, better facilities at Antrim a South West county ground and more work put in at Corrigan.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 10:34:42 PM
That's good, this is a discussion board after all, so hopefully someone is listening in and taking on board what anonymous posters are concerned about.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 04, 2021, 11:01:11 PM
It's a great day for the Gaels of Ulster if you believe Ulster GAA and Antrim Twitter
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on August 05, 2021, 10:00:35 AM
The point about the money being for Casement or nowhere has always been the sticking point. I appreciate that this is the way it is but given the difficulty in getting Casement sorted, surely it would have been easier to re-negotiate the terms of the use of the money than continue on a 10 year shit show of a process that ultimately delivers a hugely overpriced stadium, during massively changed economic times, for a GAA which is going through a structural change that may render the 34K+ Capacity pointless. If the same effort was put into negotiating how the money was spent as was put into negotiating with residents and planners then I'm sure some agreement could have been reached - especially if money could have been saved as a result. I know people are going to say that I don't understand that it was casement or nothing blah blah but my point is that if there was a will to change it, I'm sure it could have happened and it would most likely have been easier to get a few people in a room and thrash this out than go through what we have witnessed over the past few years. A smaller stadium with money left over for development would have been a win for all involved.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on August 05, 2021, 10:34:41 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 04, 2021, 07:18:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 04, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

We already don't have a hurling final. Embarrassing. McGeehan and the fat cats don't seem to care about that

Ulster Council has abdicated responsibility for hurling quite a few years ago, not only do we not have an Ulster Senior Hurling Championship, but none for U20 or minor. We're now in Leinster by the looks of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on August 05, 2021, 11:10:54 AM
Ulster's biggest city had to have a big stadium. How would it look if they abandoned Casement totally or only built a 15,000 capacity akin to Páirc Esler or Brewster Park? Or moved the money to Armagh and made it Ulster's showpiece stadium? It's a statement from Ulster GAA for the future of GAA in Belfast.

It's a bit like when the British Empire had to be seen to build the biggest bridge, ship, building, etc in London, the heart of the empire, without being able to even afford it (the peasants taxes will pay for it). It's a macho thing, flexing your muscles, a peacock displaying its feathers. That's what Ulster GAA are doing. Anything less, and it's a statement that the GAA are weak in Belfast, they aren't the dominant sport in the city etc.

Whether Casement will be a white elephant or not, time will tell. But Ulster GAA needs to make a big statement in the biggest city regardless of cost or how often it's used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 05, 2021, 11:18:08 AM
I presume with costs having rocketed that it will be redeveloped in stages now depending on how much £€ become available?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on October 29, 2021, 07:45:52 AM
Not again...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59085730
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2021, 08:25:11 AM
This is ridiculous. It's not like Casement Park popped up overnight on their doorstep. They've lived beside it their entire lives.

Just scrap it and move the jobs and investment to an area that will want it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 29, 2021, 09:45:34 AM
Look they are trying what they can to block it. If I lived there I would probably do the same. The argument against though is all over the place. One minute it's going to be a white elephant and never used next minute it is going to be a death trap with the hoards of people unable to evacuate quickly going to the concerts every night of the week. A stadium realistically used not that often is surely more favourable than a supermarket, business park or housing and the hassle and traffic that could bring
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 29, 2021, 10:07:59 AM
Is 34500 not less than casements current "capacity"? I always thought it was 36k. Anyway - at this stage I've little or no sympathy with the residents (some of whom I know). Wtf do they expect?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: skeog on October 29, 2021, 10:25:34 AM
Move it to Omagh plenty of room would be welcomed with open arms unlike them perpetual objectors in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2021, 12:01:07 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 29, 2021, 10:07:59 AM
Is 34500 not less than casements current "capacity"? I always thought it was 36k. Anyway - at this stage I've little or no sympathy with the residents (some of whom I know). Wtf do they expect?

probably coz you live somewhere else lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2021, 12:48:54 PM
The same people will complain about lack of funding and investment in the area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
There is a problem here, also seen in the A5, that the Stormont authorities are not capable of following their own regulations. So while the revised design of Casement, which is a big improvement IHMO, might meet the objections the whole thing could fall on a technicality.
As has been suggested before, the GAA should discuss the possibility of giving the site for Traveller housing and a drug rehabilitation centre and go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 29, 2021, 05:41:31 PM
The future of the Ulster championship is more important to the Casement project, than the Andytown residents.

It might actually br a good thing if legal proceedings do drag on for a year or so.  I expect that Proposal B bullshit (or a slightly tweaked B) to be passed next year.  What would then become of a 34,000 Casement if we had a meaningless Ulster championship?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2021, 09:04:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 29, 2021, 05:41:31 PM
The future of the Ulster championship is more important to the Casement project, than the Andytown residents.

It might actually br a good thing if legal proceedings do drag on for a year or so.  I expect that Proposal B bullshit (or a slightly tweaked B) to be passed next year.  What would then become of a 34,000 Casement if we had a meaningless Ulster championship?

Yep Corrigan is dead on for crowds Antrim get
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 02, 2021, 09:31:55 PM
Anyone in the Ulster Council that still believes a 35k all-seat, all-covered stadium in Andytown is what the GAA needs, needs their head examined.

[and if they aren't elected - booted out the door for having insufficient intelligence for the job.]


Its alright a few clowns on here drooling over a big new shiny stadium. But the top officials of the province are there to think with their heads, not day dream over a proverbial dick waving contest with the other sports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 02, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 02, 2021, 09:31:55 PM
Anyone in the Ulster Council that still believes a 35k all-seat, all-covered stadium in Andytown is what the GAA needs, needs their head examined.

[and if they aren't elected - booted out the door for having insufficient intelligence for the job.]


Its alright a few clowns on here drooling over a big new shiny stadium. But the top officials of the province are there to think with their heads, not day dream over a proverbial dick waving contest with the other sports.

100 percent
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on November 03, 2021, 11:39:56 AM
Ulster Council have made a complete and total balls up of this and Antrim are paying the price as a result although it was the Antrim County Board who decided not to make the repairs required in order to get the required safety certificate from Belfast City Council after they saw the £ signs before anything was signed off.

As a result, the stadium was closed and has fallen into a state of disrepair.

Part of the 3-stadium deal, Windsor Park, Ravenhill and Casement (as deemed by the Ulster Council) was that the provincial body were to manage the project so it was taken out of Antrim's hands although they haven't exactly covered themselves with glory since.

Stupid idea to push through with plans to build a 34,000 - 38,000 seater stadium in W Belfast. Would never have reached that capacity even with an Ulster 'football' final.

If anything, the stand should have been demolished and replaced with a new structure and a new seated stand built on the opposite terracing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on November 03, 2021, 05:19:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 02, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 02, 2021, 09:31:55 PM
Anyone in the Ulster Council that still believes a 35k all-seat, all-covered stadium in Andytown is what the GAA needs, needs their head examined.

[and if they aren't elected - booted out the door for having insufficient intelligence for the job.]


Its alright a few clowns on here drooling over a big new shiny stadium. But the top officials of the province are there to think with their heads, not day dream over a proverbial dick waving contest with the other sports.

100 percent

They are looking to build a revenue generator; Conference center, concert venue, big matches etc

Ulster needed a big venue in the NE of the province, aswell as one for the west (Omagh). Clones covers the south, Celtic Park covers the north pretty well.

However, as previously stated, if option B gets approved, then the need for this might be eliminated
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:44:33 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2021, 08:25:11 AM
This is ridiculous. It's not like Casement Park popped up overnight on their doorstep. They've lived beside it their entire lives.

Just scrap it and move the jobs and investment to an area that will want it.

They lived beside a venue used a couple of times a year. The plan is for gigs and conferences. Use will change*.

It's bonkers to think you can fail to get something through, ignore why you failed and just try again.


* zero chance it will happen.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:47:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
There is a problem here, also seen in the A5, that the Stormont authorities are not capable of following their own regulations. So while the revised design of Casement, which is a big improvement IHMO, might meet the objections the whole thing could fall on a technicality.
As has been suggested before, the GAA should discuss the possibility of giving the site for Traveller housing and a drug rehabilitation centre and go elsewhere.

This. This is the problem. It's also the problem with Croker and the locals. For an organisation that prides itself on community, the local community are never engaged with and the attitude is f**k em.

How come other sports never get these objections?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2021, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:47:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
There is a problem here, also seen in the A5, that the Stormont authorities are not capable of following their own regulations. So while the revised design of Casement, which is a big improvement IHMO, might meet the objections the whole thing could fall on a technicality.
As has been suggested before, the GAA should discuss the possibility of giving the site for Traveller housing and a drug rehabilitation centre and go elsewhere.

This. This is the problem. It's also the problem with Croker and the locals. For an organisation that prides itself on community, the local community are never engaged with and the attitude is f**k em.

How come other sports never get these objections?

Did the residents of Lansdown road complain about the concerts and the new development?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.


I get that but at the same time the proposed change in use means there will be a marked increase in antisocial behaviour so I understand the concerns.

I just think the GAA would have been better off selling the land and starting afresh somewhere with less traffic congestion and no chance of residential complaints.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2021, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:47:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
There is a problem here, also seen in the A5, that the Stormont authorities are not capable of following their own regulations. So while the revised design of Casement, which is a big improvement IHMO, might meet the objections the whole thing could fall on a technicality.
As has been suggested before, the GAA should discuss the possibility of giving the site for Traveller housing and a drug rehabilitation centre and go elsewhere.

This. This is the problem. It's also the problem with Croker and the locals. For an organisation that prides itself on community, the local community are never engaged with and the attitude is f**k em.

How come other sports never get these objections?

Did the residents of Lansdown road complain about the concerts and the new development?

Initially yes. But they are on board now. Compare and contrast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 11:41:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.

Are you chosing to ignore the proposed change in use? From a  handful of Sunday aftermoons to concerts at night
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on November 04, 2021, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.

Yes , but  you can understand when that thing is going to be enlarged, built higher or whatever. Some of us. Might live next a supermarket, leisure centre or school , and if there were plans to increase them, build higher so it blocks light, erect bright floodlights etc, we'd be mighty pissed off
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2021, 10:17:09 PM
You'd wonder how all those soccer stadiums in the UK cities ever managed get going
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 05, 2021, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2021, 10:17:09 PM
You'd wonder how all those soccer stadiums in the UK cities ever managed get going

Be like Liverpool and buy all the houses round you.

But yes, when you see a lot of those stadiums planted right in the middle of rows and rows of terrace houses you'd wonder how many would be allowed under new planning laws..

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 05, 2021, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2021, 10:17:09 PM
You'd wonder how all those soccer stadiums in the UK cities ever managed get going

Be like Liverpool and buy all the houses round you.

But yes, when you see a lot of those stadiums planted right in the middle of rows and rows of terrace houses you'd wonder how many would be allowed under new planning laws..

Everton and Liverpool are less than a mile away from each other, Dundee and Dundee utd are on each others doorsteps! Surely if these clubs in built up area's are able to function safely every week then what sort of issues will a ground like Casement provide, once the safety issues are resolved? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on November 05, 2021, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.


I get that but at the same time the proposed change in use means there will be a marked increase in antisocial behaviour so I understand the concerns.

I just think the GAA would have been better off selling the land and starting afresh somewhere with less traffic congestion and no chance of residential complaints.
The problem with selling it now , is that it's worth has dropped considerably given the planning concerns. Ie who would buy if they thought they were likely to have 10 years of planning arguments ?
I think arguments around safety, light etc in the new stadium are valid , but can't be insurmountable given the precedents set elsewhere . I think BB's point re the GAA having their fair share of these planning issues is well made, and should be explored , but Bb , I don't think it's all one way . There is a small body of deep seated antagonism towards the GAA (eg anti-Irish, anti GAA values, jealousy, in the midst of some understandable constructive criticism ) which other organisations don't suffer to the same extent . In the midst of valid residents arguments , it's incredulous that an anti-GAA agenda doesn't feature to a greater or lesser extent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffronaldo on November 05, 2021, 02:30:39 PM
I don't think you'd have many planning objections if it was turned into housing or retail development. The objections are mainly about floodlights, antisocial behaviour, parking concerns, etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2021, 03:51:49 PM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 05, 2021, 02:30:39 PM
I don't think you'd have many planning objections if it was turned into housing or retail development. The objections are mainly about floodlights, antisocial behaviour, parking concerns, etc.

Been to Andytown much? Antisocial behaviour and parking is not the best in many urban cities tbf, floodlights will be on for 2 hours and only at night for a handful of games.

Can anyone break down the actual usage that Casement will get that will have a profound affect on the residents. Floodlights have been approved for the old Casement so I'm confused on that one
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 05, 2021, 04:56:52 PM
These arguments about floodlights, anti-social behaviour, disruption to residents etc are all very well, but with a bit of compromise and communication (and money!), they could probably be resolved.

But if it wasn't possible to evacuate the original 38k planned capacity quickly and safely in the event of an emergency, I fail to see how they can now get 34k out, when the original estimate from the safety experts was barely half that.

Which is what MORA will surely be concentrating on for their appeal.

Still, the delay which that appeal will surely cause will at least give the GAA more time to figure out how to raise the money needed should the 34k stadium eventually pass.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2021, 05:56:08 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 05, 2021, 04:56:52 PM

But if it wasn't possible to evacuate the original 38k planned capacity quickly and safely in the event of an emergency, I fail to see how they can now get 34k out, when the original estimate from the safety experts was barely half that.

As there are plenty of stadiums two or three times this size, evacuation is not intrinsically impossible. So it would depend on what exactly the issue was whether it remains a problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 05, 2021, 07:17:39 PM
The evacuation issue would probably be solved with the buying of a few of the surrounding houses to help the flow
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 05, 2021, 07:39:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2021, 05:56:08 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on November 05, 2021, 04:56:52 PM

But if it wasn't possible to evacuate the original 38k planned capacity quickly and safely in the event of an emergency, I fail to see how they can now get 34k out, when the original estimate from the safety experts was barely half that.

As there are plenty of stadiums two or three times this size, evacuation is not intrinsically impossible. So it would depend on what exactly the issue was whether it remains a problem.
The issue was that in the event of an emergency, there is only one evacuation route in this location which could cope with large numbers in a hurry, made worse if the emergency was at or near that route.

Does the revised plan incorporate extra evacuation routes which the original plan lacked?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 05, 2021, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 05, 2021, 07:17:39 PM
The evacuation issue would probably be solved with the buying of a few of the surrounding houses to help the flow
Assuming a "few" surrounding houses would do it - and I don't know whether it would or not - have the GAA bought them yet?

Or have they the intention - and the money - to do so?

What if the present occupiers decline to sell?

How long would such a process take, esp if it needed CPO's? And with contruction inflation costs continuing to rise, how much would that delay add to the overall cost?

They've not explained yet how/where they propose to meet the latest cost estimate, never mind what it might be in another year or two. Or three? Four?

Has the GAA ever heard of the Sunken Cost Fallacy?
https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/ (https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on November 09, 2021, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 05, 2021, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Saffronaldo on November 04, 2021, 09:52:51 AM
I totally understand why residents don't want this on their doorstep. From an Antrim GAA point of view I honestly feel they should have looked to another location. The traffic problems alone should have rendered casement a non-viable option.

The stadium has been there for over 60 years. It isn't really on to choose to live beside a stadium, a railway line or whatever and then campaign to have it closed down or crippled in its operation.


I get that but at the same time the proposed change in use means there will be a marked increase in antisocial behaviour so I understand the concerns.

I just think the GAA would have been better off selling the land and starting afresh somewhere with less traffic congestion and no chance of residential complaints.
The problem with selling it now , is that it's worth has dropped considerably given the planning concerns. Ie who would buy if they thought they were likely to have 10 years of planning arguments ?
I think arguments around safety, light etc in the new stadium are valid , but can't be insurmountable given the precedents set elsewhere
Those houses would sell in a heart beat stadium or no stadium. While the arguments you mention are valid, they're no different to what already existed prior to casement closing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on November 09, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
How much do the judicial reviews cost? the GAA and MORA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on November 26, 2021, 01:18:30 PM
Quote from: rrhf on November 09, 2021, 11:56:47 AM
How much do the judicial reviews cost? the GAA and MORA?
No cost to the GAA - the JR is against the Dept. of Infrastructure at Stormont, with their costs being capped at £35k, while MORA's costs have been capped at £10k.

Casement Park: Residents in new legal bid against GAA stadium

A west Belfast residents' group has cleared the first stage in a High Court challenge to a planned new Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) stadium.

The Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association (Mora) was granted leave to seek a judicial review of the decision to approve a rebuild of Casement Park.

A judge listed the challenge for a full hearing over three days in March 2022.

Infrastructure Minister Nichola Mallon gave planning permission for a 34,000-capacity arena in July.

But some of those living in the surrounding area are opposed to the scale of the estimated £110m project.

Concerns have been raised that the height of the stadium as well as matchday traffic, parking and noise could cause significant harm to the neighbourhood.


More here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59418347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59418347)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998)

Thoughts anyone?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: HokeyPokey on February 07, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998)

Thoughts anyone?

Two things are interesting, that the IFA apparently are in constant contact with Ulster GAA and it's also odd that they won't confirm Casement as the host stadium which is the only viable option.

I would think it could be a good thing and would be interesting to see. I would be concerned that despite the IFA's efforts to depoliticise things that the location could make it attractive for fair weather supporters who might want an opportunity to antagonise. I would assume the locals wouldn't mind as long as theirs no trouble and maybe some of the players from nationalist backgrounds might help smooth things.

Your own thoughts?   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:13:51 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on February 07, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
Two things are interesting, that the IFA apparently are in constant contact with Ulster GAA and it's also odd that they won't confirm Casement as the host stadium which is the only viable option.
Seeing as it's not the IFA's stadium, it must be for the GAA to offer, rather than for the IFA to presume - good manners, really.

And as for the regular contact, that's not at all unusual. Along with the rugby boys, they and the GAA routinely stage joint events (kids coaching etc). If nothing else, it's pretty much a requirement for funding from Stormont and the Sports Council etc.

Quote from: HokeyPokey on February 07, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
I would think it could be a good thing and would be interesting to see. I would be concerned that despite the IFA's efforts to depoliticise things that the location could make it attractive for fair weather supporters who might want an opportunity to antagonise. I would assume the locals wouldn't mind as long as theirs no trouble and maybe some of the players from nationalist backgrounds might help smooth things.

Your own thoughts?
When eg Linfield or Glentoran fans can go to ganes at Cliftonville, or occasionally to Derry City or Dundlak etc, and NI fans have gone to Dublin without incident, I don't foresee any great problems in attending games in West Belfast.

Besides which, NI would almost certainly have to qualify for the Finals, which is hardly a given. Meaning that I doubt you'd have any trouble at games between eg Spain, Norway, Biulgaria, Switzerland etc (Though the Dutch in those Orange shirts might raise a few eyebrows  ;))

Beyond that, other than the standard GAA pitch dimensions meaning that soccer spectators would be miles from the action, I have no strong opinions either way - fire ahead, I say.

Though I would hope that those Finals weren't used as an excuse to find another few million quid for Casement over-and-above their original allocation from Stormont - at least if an equivalent excess wasn't also available to the IFA (and Ulster Rugby)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on February 07, 2022, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998)

Thoughts anyone?

If completed in time, Casement Park should be made available as one of the venues for the tournament.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2022, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:13:51 PM
Though I would hope that those Finals weren't used as an excuse to find another few million quid for Casement over-and-above their original allocation from Stormont - at least if an equivalent excess wasn't also available to the IFA (and Ulster Rugby)

The Euro finals are an additional issue beyond regular use, with benefits for hotels, tourism etc. The funding should go to the stadium that makes this possible, not other ones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:48:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2022, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:13:51 PM
Though I would hope that those Finals weren't used as an excuse to find another few million quid for Casement over-and-above their original allocation from Stormont - at least if an equivalent excess wasn't also available to the IFA (and Ulster Rugby)

The Euro finals are an additional issue beyond regular use, with benefits for hotels, tourism etc. The funding should go to the stadium that makes this possible, not other ones.
The original funding (i.e. taxpayers' money) was shared out fairly and equitably, according to need and own contribution, with the GAA getting far more than the others. Both the IFA and UR managed to spend it, on time and within budget.

Meaning that if the GAA needs extra funding to bale out their own rank incompetence, at the very least IFA and UR should receive an additional extra tranche - otherwise you'd effectively be "punishing" them for their own proper stewardship, while rewarding the GAA for their own lamentable failure.

Which is the basis on which Casement should be rebuilt.

As for the Euro's the original funding was not supplied by Stormont for that purpose, so it is not justifiable to try to apply it retrospectively.

Rather if the GAA can do the job they're being funded for, and get it built in the next five years, then if they choose to make the stadium available for the Euro's, they will be remunerated by rent, just as the same as if it was eg a boxing match or a pop concert. (Though maybe not Garth Brookes  ;))
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2022, 10:25:59 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 05:48:33 PM
Rather if the GAA can do the job they're being funded for, and get it built in the next five years, then if they choose to make the stadium available for the Euro's, they will be remunerated by rent, just as the same as if it was eg a boxing match or a pop concert. (Though maybe not Garth Brookes  ;))

There may be things required for the Euros that are not much needed by the GAA, adding temporary seating, extra press facilities etc. You could see Dublin, Cardiff or Edinburgh helping out their local stadium and Belfast should do, to an appropriate extent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Pub Bore on February 08, 2022, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998)

Thoughts anyone?

The only game I would like to see at Casement would be NI v. Eng - The two sets of fans could fight each other and then the locals could fight both sets of fans. 

On a more serious note, if feckers like Garth Brookes and Bono can strut around Croke Pk generally being wankers then I don't see why top class sportsmen of any code shouldn't play at Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 08, 2022, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on February 08, 2022, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998)

Thoughts anyone?

The only game I would like to see at Casement would be NI v. Eng - The two sets of fans could fight each other and then the locals could fight both sets of fans. 

On a more serious note, if feckers like Garth Brookes and Bono can strut around Croke Pk generally being wankers then I don't see why top class sportsmen of any code shouldn't play at Casement.
I think to be fair most people with a sporting interest would love to see it built.  Fair play to you Evil Genius...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 11, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.


You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 11, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 11, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.


You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

You're entirely right about that first bit but it wouldn't be uncommon for Governments to subsidise the development of Stadia in an attempt to secure an international event, think Man Citys stadium for the commonwealth games and also West ham at the London Olympics stadium, everyone is a winner in that regard.

On a slightly different issue I only realised that the Ballymena showgrounds are owned and maintained by the local council(ratepayers) as was Inver park in Larne up until the last few years. I wonder what rent they'd be paying and is there any other clubs out there availing of such local council generosity?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 11, 2022, 06:10:52 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on February 08, 2022, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on February 07, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Anyhow, this is the real reason I popped onto the forum.

A while back, the Englsih FA decided that they wanted to stage the 2030 World Cup Finals - it is Europe's turn after all, though FIFA is doing all it can to take it elsewhere.

Anyhow, to make their bid more attractive (and ensure 4 extra votes), they investigated a joint bid by all four "home" nations, plus ROI.

But now that it appears that that was never going to succeed due to the politics of football (both small "p" and large "P"), they've decided to withdraw and opt for the 2028 European Finals instead, for which they must have a decent chance.

The problem for NI being that if we are to host games, the 18k capacity at Windsor isn't big enough, nor can/will it be be expanded to the 30k minimun requirement.

Meaning that although they've not said so explicitly, the IFA is clearly hoping that Casement will be completed and available in time to step in - more here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60288998)

Thoughts anyone?

The only game I would like to see at Casement would be NI v. Eng - The two sets of fans could fight each other and then the locals could fight both sets of fans. 

On a more serious note, if feckers like Garth Brookes and Bono can strut around Croke Pk generally being wankers then I don't see why top class sportsmen of any code shouldn't play at Casement.

lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 11, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 11, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.


You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

You're entirely right about that first bit but it wouldn't be uncommon for Governments to subsidise the development of Stadia in an attempt to secure an international event, think Man Citys stadium for the commonwealth games and also West ham at the London Olympics stadium, everyone is a winner in that regard.

On a slightly different issue I only realised that the Ballymena showgrounds are owned and maintained by the local council(ratepayers) as was Inver park in Larne up until the last few years. I wonder what rent they'd be paying and is there any other clubs out there availing of such local council generosity?
Derry City, Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians, Sherbourne....
Soccer free stuff as usual ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: michaelg on February 11, 2022, 11:50:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 11, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 11, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.


You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

You're entirely right about that first bit but it wouldn't be uncommon for Governments to subsidise the development of Stadia in an attempt to secure an international event, think Man Citys stadium for the commonwealth games and also West ham at the London Olympics stadium, everyone is a winner in that regard.

On a slightly different issue I only realised that the Ballymena showgrounds are owned and maintained by the local council(ratepayers) as was Inver park in Larne up until the last few years. I wonder what rent they'd be paying and is there any other clubs out there availing of such local council generosity?
Many local sports clubs hire council facilities. Never mind the rent they are paying, what are they getting for the money they are paying when the pitch, for example at Ballymena, does not appear to be terribly well maintained, and key games have to be postponed as a result.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 13, 2022, 11:24:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 11, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 11, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.


You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

You're entirely right about that first bit but it wouldn't be uncommon for Governments to subsidise the development of Stadia in an attempt to secure an international event, think Man Citys stadium for the commonwealth games and also West ham at the London Olympics stadium, everyone is a winner in that regard.

On a slightly different issue I only realised that the Ballymena showgrounds are owned and maintained by the local council(ratepayers) as was Inver park in Larne up until the last few years. I wonder what rent they'd be paying and is there any other clubs out there availing of such local council generosity?
Derry City, Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians, Sherbourne....
Soccer free stuff as usual ::)

And every French, Italian and German club, loads of Spanish, Polish and so on. It's standard across Europe. The soccer club as anchor tenents subsidising the mixed use facilities.

Stop looking at soccer exclusively through a British lens.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 13, 2022, 11:47:24 PM
Soccer was held out of Celtic Park when dcfc needed a home , went to Buncrana to play .
Local clubs in city were asked to support Derry city , our club na Magha gave full support, others didnt
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2022, 12:27:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 13, 2022, 11:47:24 PM
Soccer was held out of Celtic Park when dcfc needed a home , went to Buncrana to play .
Local clubs in city were asked to support Derry city , our club na Magha gave full support, others didnt

Celtic park cannot just be given to Derry city. Did any of these clubs put a motion in Congress that it should be?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 14, 2022, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 11, 2022, 11:50:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 11, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 11, 2022, 10:56:54 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 07, 2022, 07:06:22 PM
It's bad enough for the loyalists to have to put up with a conspiratorial cabal of nationalist civil servants, an abundance of gaa jerseys in Queens, nationalists demanding equality,  but the line in the sand is nationalists getting more from the subvention. And if it's the GAA , hell no, that goes against the fiundamental grain of institutionalized Unionist privilege.


You don't need to be a unionist to think it's a bizarre situation to reward the GAA's failure with more money and relaxed planning in order to get a soccer tournament played in a location that hasn't a stadium capable of hosting a soccer tournament.

You're entirely right about that first bit but it wouldn't be uncommon for Governments to subsidise the development of Stadia in an attempt to secure an international event, think Man Citys stadium for the commonwealth games and also West ham at the London Olympics stadium, everyone is a winner in that regard.

On a slightly different issue I only realised that the Ballymena showgrounds are owned and maintained by the local council(ratepayers) as was Inver park in Larne up until the last few years. I wonder what rent they'd be paying and is there any other clubs out there availing of such local council generosity?
Many local sports clubs hire council facilities. Never mind the rent they are paying, what are they getting for the money they are paying when the pitch, for example at Ballymena, does not appear to be terribly well maintained, and key games have to be postponed as a result.

We can't hire a GAA pitch from ND & Ards BC because they don't have one so it's all new to me.  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 14, 2022, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2022, 12:27:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 13, 2022, 11:47:24 PM
Soccer was held out of Celtic Park when dcfc needed a home , went to Buncrana to play .
Local clubs in city were asked to support Derry city , our club na Magha gave full support, others didnt

Celtic park cannot just be given to Derry city. Did any of these clubs put a motion in Congress that it should be?

wasn't to be given, was proposed shared loan period, I don't think congress were consulted in time but it would not have mattered to some clubs anyhow, they were not for raising official motion anyhow
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 14, 2022, 03:42:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2022, 12:27:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 13, 2022, 11:47:24 PM
Soccer was held out of Celtic Park when dcfc needed a home , went to Buncrana to play .
Local clubs in city were asked to support Derry city , our club na Magha gave full support, others didnt

Celtic park cannot just be given to Derry city. Did any of these clubs put a motion in Congress that it should be?

And we are back to the old argument. Why should the Derry County Board need congress approval to rent out their facilities?

We then get into mental territory that Ballygunnar 'won' funding for an indoor soccer pitch for the area, as deemed needed, but are excluding soccer from it while paying to maintain a soccer facility.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hound on February 14, 2022, 04:39:51 PM
Parnells in Dublin have a fine soccer pitch that they rent out to local soccer.

I've never checked the veracity of this, but a Parnells member told me they are allowed to do it because it was a condition of planning when they built their facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 14, 2022, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 14, 2022, 04:39:51 PM
Parnells in Dublin have a fine soccer pitch that they rent out to local soccer.

I've never checked the veracity of this, but a Parnells member told me they are allowed to do it because it was a condition of planning when they built their facilities.

More and more of that is happening as the Department become less embedded. Ultimately that's why the Liam Miller game was held in PUC.

Think of the facilities we as a country could have had if the French model was used
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on February 14, 2022, 05:44:28 PM
What was the french model for facilities bb2?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Louther on February 15, 2022, 11:38:23 AM
What was the original budget and current funding shortage for Casement? I would imagine now that that gap has greatly increased in recent weeks and the budget is out of the water. With current pricing of materials and labour and everything else, I just couldn't see how the figures are going to stack up to get this built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 15, 2022, 11:55:35 AM
https://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/322176
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 15, 2022, 11:56:21 AM
White elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Louther on February 15, 2022, 11:59:36 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 15, 2022, 11:48:21 AM
Don't say that. What about the Euros bid?

Hardly be finished by 2028 at current rate of progress 😂😂

It could be a new angle to get it done but would IFA support it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 15, 2022, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 14, 2022, 05:44:28 PM
What was the french model for facilities bb2?

Every village gets a municipal soccer/rugby pitch, pool and basketball/tennis courts. The bigger the village the bigger the facility, stands get added as needed. Everyone has free access to well maintained local authority sports facilities. Teams get the size they need for the league they end up in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on February 15, 2022, 01:28:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 15, 2022, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 14, 2022, 05:44:28 PM
What was the french model for facilities bb2?

Every village gets a municipal soccer/rugby pitch, pool and basketball/tennis courts. The bigger the village the bigger the facility, stands get added as needed. Everyone has free access to well maintained local authority sports facilities. Teams get the size they need for the league they end up in.

Thanks Bb2, sounds a Much better model but would work out expensive. Gaa clubs are already doing some of this at a fraction of the cost,
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 15, 2022, 01:59:40 PM
A GAA pitch is much bigger than those needed for soccer/ruggerball.
And will Paddy pay French tax rates?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 15, 2022, 02:08:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 15, 2022, 01:28:53 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 15, 2022, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 14, 2022, 05:44:28 PM
What was the french model for facilities bb2?

Every village gets a municipal soccer/rugby pitch, pool and basketball/tennis courts. The bigger the village the bigger the facility, stands get added as needed. Everyone has free access to well maintained local authority sports facilities. Teams get the size they need for the league they end up in.

Thanks Bb2, sounds a Much better model but would work out expensive. Gaa clubs are already doing some of this at a fraction of the cost,

GAA clubs don't share. That's the problem. Most sports infrastructure spending goes to the GAA who, while doing great work within their circle, exclude the rest of the community. You wouldn't design that grant model now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 15, 2022, 02:28:45 PM
The sooner this stadium is built the better, has dragged on far too long. The money is there for it (a bit of additional needed but will be found), please no more silly arguments about moving it and reducing it etc. The funding is for the stadium at Casement and no where else, just get it built and get on with it. There will be employment in the area it will have great facilities to the GAA for meetings and seminars etc and can host other events such as local events to concerts.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 15, 2022, 02:33:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 15, 2022, 01:59:40 PM
A GAA pitch is much bigger than those needed for soccer/ruggerball.
And will Paddy pay French tax rates?

Do you not see a municipal sports complex in every village providing facilities for everyone who needs them as a better model than a GAA club building facilities across the road from a soccer one and neither sharing? I was in the sticks recently and saw two 5g astros across across the road from each other in a village of 500. The department should be refusing funds unless they share
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 16, 2022, 01:52:47 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 15, 2022, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 15, 2022, 02:28:45 PM
The sooner this stadium is built the better, has dragged on far too long. The money is there for it (a bit of additional needed but will be found), please no more silly arguments about moving it and reducing it etc. The funding is for the stadium at Casement and no where else, just get it built and get on with it. There will be employment in the area it will have great facilities to the GAA for meetings and seminars etc and can host other events such as local events to concerts.


How can you say the money is there for it? It's hardly "a bit of additional needed". It was estimated at £33 million (more than half the original funding) 2 years ago. What are we looking at now? Where is it coming from?

The "just get it built" brigade are part of the problem. It's a hell of a lot easier said than done. That sort of tunnel vision pig-headedness is why we have nothing to show after all these years.

Not 100% sure of the exact figure but i was pretty sure the amount was around £65m. All Construction costs have rocketed up and this one is no different, many Contracts have been cancelled and schemes put back out to tender as Construction companies simply cannot construct the scheme for the original costs. As for the bit in bold can you explain how the "just get it built brigade" is the problem, these people simply want a stadium for their County and the province want a stadium to showcase the Ulster final. So yes get it built...Do a bit of research of Páirc Uí Chaoimh and see what planned costs were and what it actually ended up costing when finished...Double the amount
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 02:58:30 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 16, 2022, 01:52:47 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 15, 2022, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: illdecide on February 15, 2022, 02:28:45 PM
The sooner this stadium is built the better, has dragged on far too long. The money is there for it (a bit of additional needed but will be found), please no more silly arguments about moving it and reducing it etc. The funding is for the stadium at Casement and no where else, just get it built and get on with it. There will be employment in the area it will have great facilities to the GAA for meetings and seminars etc and can host other events such as local events to concerts.


How can you say the money is there for it? It's hardly "a bit of additional needed". It was estimated at £33 million (more than half the original funding) 2 years ago. What are we looking at now? Where is it coming from?

The "just get it built" brigade are part of the problem. It's a hell of a lot easier said than done. That sort of tunnel vision pig-headedness is why we have nothing to show after all these years.

Not 100% sure of the exact figure but i was pretty sure the amount was around £65m. All Construction costs have rocketed up and this one is no different, many Contracts have been cancelled and schemes put back out to tender as Construction companies simply cannot construct the scheme for the original costs. As for the bit in bold can you explain how the "just get it built brigade" is the problem, these people simply want a stadium for their County and the province want a stadium to showcase the Ulster final. So yes get it built...Do a bit of research of Páirc Uí Chaoimh and see what planned costs were and what it actually ended up costing when finished...Double the amount

Its the big suits in the GAA that are the problem, arrogance of them. The small man has stood up to the big man and they couldn't take it. Move on, build it elsewhere
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 16, 2022, 04:00:05 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...

Amen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...

Do me, absolutely amazing how we are hearing from SF and GAA fat cats that "GAA people" want Casement. No we dont
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on February 16, 2022, 04:06:50 PM
Its a crazy Idea that the GAA share esp with soccer.
with the massive increase in Ladies football the biggest issue facing the GAA as a whole and at club level is to get the facilities  to allow for the growth.
Soccer head are far too busy ripping off their own sport to bother with developing Grounds for themselves .

The only half decent soccer grounds are the result of Windfall from selling their pitches for stupid money in return for excellent out of the way facilities. ut as they play on tiny pitches they are useless anyway.
as Shamrock rovers ensured in getting their gift from from John o donoghue  .
and now as the cops clamp down on cigarette smuggling Shelbourne have to move out of the the Dublin councils tolka park (which they tried to illegally sell) and get a similar gift in dalymount
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 16, 2022, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...

Do me, absolutely amazing how we are hearing from SF and GAA fat cats that "GAA people" want Casement. No we dont

And not a decent hotel for miles unless you include Arlene's gaff..   ;)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 16, 2022, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...

Do me, absolutely amazing how we are hearing from SF and GAA fat cats that "GAA people" want Casement. No we dont

And not a decent hotel for miles unless you include Arlene's gaff..   ;)

A hotel for Ulster championship? Hardly at forefront of most Ulster fans minds.
Are we suggesting it gets used for more than that?. Hurling league possibly pull a crowd , surely all the big crowds be at other county grounds. Antrim have poor support in football. Big crowds will be in Armagh, Derry, Tyrone , Donegal , Monagjhan , Cavan and Down . Tbh we have worst crowds after Antrim
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 16, 2022, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 16, 2022, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...

Do me, absolutely amazing how we are hearing from SF and GAA fat cats that "GAA people" want Casement. No we dont

And not a decent hotel for miles unless you include Arlene's gaff..   ;)

A hotel for Ulster championship? Hardly at forefront of most Ulster fans minds.
Are we suggesting it gets used for more than that?. Hurling league possibly pull a crowd , surely all the big crowds be at other county grounds. Antrim have poor support in football. Big crowds will be in Armagh, Derry, Tyrone , Donegal , Monagjhan , Cavan and Down . Tbh we have worst crowds after Antrim

You'd have to hope for some sort of uplift in Antrim football. If they could get themselves into some sort of shape there would be a comfortable stadium if people did want to support them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Solo_run on February 16, 2022, 06:28:18 PM
Could they not change some of those grey panels for something a bit more...saffron
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on February 17, 2022, 08:49:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 16, 2022, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: rrhf on February 16, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Dungannon...

Do me, absolutely amazing how we are hearing from SF and GAA fat cats that "GAA people" want Casement. No we dont
I do
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 17, 2022, 09:05:25 AM
From an antrim perspective I want it. From a GAA perspective I am not sure it's needed but I would like it for Antrim's sake.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on February 17, 2022, 09:34:35 AM
It's academic because Casement is where it is going.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 17, 2022, 11:08:26 AM
100%, thats the thing that does my head in...People saying Dungannon and other venue's. Davitt Park in Lurgan is ideal for it, beside the train station and M1 as well and central of all Ulster but unfortunately that's not where it's going...It's for Casement Park in Belfast and no where else so no point shouting out other venue's.

It's a shame that Antrim football and Hurling don't have a proper County ground and it needs sorted. I don't know what they'll do to keep residents happy if they can reduce the attendance further to keep costs down and keep locals happy but i get the feeling no matter what they do SOME locals will never be happy. The stadium has been there long before anyone living there so I guess majority of them will accept it. I get there are a few things deeper than that argument, TBH it's went on that long now i've forgotten half the stuff that has went on...10 years ago i had great interest in the scheme because I had interest in both the Construction and design process as well as from a Health & Safety perspective but there has been that much protests, re-designs and turmoil i've lost track of it all...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:34:50 AM
Euro 2028 now likely to come, so it is Casement or nothing if Norn Iron is to be involved. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.

Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 22, 2022, 12:24:25 PM
Looks like casement either gets magically green lit by all or poor Norn Iron 'host' the euros with no stadium ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:49:52 PM
Hard to see it going any other way.

Rewarding failure
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 22, 2022, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:49:52 PM
Hard to see it going any other way.

Rewarding failure

No doubt, but is it also rewarding those with vision to go bigger.

IFA played safe and got Linfield a nice wee stadium, 90% of the time meets their requirements, Ulster Rugby probably similar, ruling them out of these blue riband evens whereas the Ulster Council probably aimed far too high, made a shíte of it in all honesty, ably assisted with some political partners who overplayed their hand but could still end up with a far superior stadium than the other two..

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 01:44:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 22, 2022, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:49:52 PM
Hard to see it going any other way.

Rewarding failure

No doubt, but is it also rewarding those with vision to go bigger.

IFA played safe and got Linfield a nice wee stadium, 90% of the time meets their requirements, Ulster Rugby probably similar, ruling them out of these blue riband evens whereas the Ulster Council probably aimed far too high, made a shíte of it in all honesty, ably assisted with some political partners who overplayed their hand but could still end up with a far superior stadium than the other two..
Vision isn't a word I associate with the Casement Park project.

But it is bonkers to think that Casement may end up Belfast premier stadium in these circumstances
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on March 22, 2022, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 01:44:29 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 22, 2022, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:49:52 PM
Hard to see it going any other way.

Rewarding failure

No doubt, but is it also rewarding those with vision to go bigger.

IFA played safe and got Linfield a nice wee stadium, 90% of the time meets their requirements, Ulster Rugby probably similar, ruling them out of these blue riband evens whereas the Ulster Council probably aimed far too high, made a shíte of it in all honesty, ably assisted with some political partners who overplayed their hand but could still end up with a far superior stadium than the other two..
Vision isn't a word I associate with the Casement Park project.

But it is bonkers to think that Casement may end up Belfast premier stadium in these circumstances

If built to the full spec, I'm sure nobody will care 10 years down the line.

Only thing is how many times will it be at full capacity?...apart from soccer competitions.

Having a saying, 20, 000 all seater with all the mod cons would be some job.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.

Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.
You'd better tell the media that if it's true.

Even with the (nationalised taxpayer funded) FAI involved they should win the bid as they're the only bidders.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.

Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.
That is the normal arrangement.

Generally each venue gets to host 3 or 4 group games, plus maybe a knockout game. It may be different in 2028 because there will be 32 teams, but rather than allow two stadia in one city, I suspect they'll just extend it to more cities.

If so, then politics (both big and small "p") will likely determine where the games are played. England will demand -and get - the Lion's share (sorry), since it is really "their" bid. (Remember, they really only roped the other four in in order to get extra votes at UEFA). Plus England has plenty of big two-club soccer cities, like Manchester, Liverpool and London etc, all with big, modern stadia. On top of which the UK government will be stumping up serious dosh, and there are far more votes for them in England than Scotland. Wales and NI.

Meanwhile, unless the Dail writes a huge cheque, I suspect Dublin will be told it's one venue, i.e. the AVIVA, esp if NI were staging games at a new Casement.

And the FAI should be happy enough with that, since they'd rather any extra Irish government money going was spent meeting other soccer needs, rather than more going into the coffers of the GAA/Croke.

But we'll see.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 07:55:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.

Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.
That is the normal arrangement.

Generally each venue gets to host 3 or 4 group games, plus maybe a knockout game. It may be different in 2028 because there will be 32 teams, but rather than allow two stadia in one city, I suspect they'll just extend it to more cities.

If so, then politics (both big and small "p") will likely determine where the games are played. England will demand -and get - the Lion's share (sorry), since it is really "their" bid. (Remember, they really only roped the other four in in order to get extra votes at UEFA). Plus England has plenty of big two-club soccer cities, like Manchester, Liverpool and London etc, all with big, modern stadia. On top of which the UK government will be stumping up serious dosh, and there are far more votes for them in England than Scotland. Wales and NI.

Meanwhile, unless the Dail writes a huge cheque, I suspect Dublin will be told it's one venue, i.e. the AVIVA, esp if NI were staging games at a new Casement.

And the FAI should be happy enough with that, since they'd rather any extra Irish government money going was spent meeting other soccer needs, rather than more going into the coffers of the GAA/Croke.

But we'll see.

Pretty much my understanding. If there can be two stadium cities they will he London, Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool, not Dublin.

Croke Park doesn't fit here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 07:59:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 12:17:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.

Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.
You'd better tell the media that if it's true.

Even with the (nationalised taxpayer funded) FAI involved they should win the bid as they're the only bidders.

It is true. I have no idea why the press are running with London, Manchester, Glasgow, Birmingham one venue, Dublin two.

The FAI played a blinder here. 4 or 5 games in Dublin at zero cost and zero effort. Can the GAA step up and get a stadium rammed home for the IFA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 07:59:51 PM
The FAI played a blinder here. 4 or 5 games in Dublin at zero cost and zero effort. Can the GAA step up and get a stadium rammed home for the IFA?
Tbf, the FAI didn't really "do" anything, they had this handed to them by the Englsih FA and all they had to do was pledge their vote and shake a few hands in Switzerland.

Indeed they're not even providing a stadium, like eg the EFA/Wembley or SFA/Hampdenseeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Sure you can fire a game or 2 in that stadium built in Cork
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 07:59:51 PM
The FAI played a blinder here. 4 or 5 games in Dublin at zero cost and zero effort. Can the GAA step up and get a stadium rammed home for the IFA?
Tbf, the FAI didn't really "do" anything, they had this handed to them by the Englsih FA and all they had to do was pledge their vote and shake a few hands in Switzerland.

Indeed they're not even providing a stadium, like eg the EFA/Wembley or SFA/Hampdenseeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Sure you can fire a game or 2 in that stadium built in Cork
Where are you putting the 20,000 extra seats?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Sure you can fire a game or 2 in that stadium built in Cork
Where are you putting the 20,000 extra seats?

I would be astonished if the terracing was not designed so that seats could be placed there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Sure you can fire a game or 2 in that stadium built in Cork
Where are you putting the 20,000 extra seats?

I would be astonished if the terracing was not designed so that seats could be placed there.

And I'd be equally as astonished if it was and more if it was allowed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2022, 12:05:20 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Sure you can fire a game or 2 in that stadium built in Cork
Where are you putting the 20,000 extra seats?

I would be astonished if the terracing was not designed so that seats could be placed there.

And I'd be equally as astonished if it was and more if it was allowed

It is hardly rocket science to consider seating. Why should it not be allowed? was there not seating on Hill16 when Croke Park was used for soccer?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 23, 2022, 12:50:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2022, 12:05:20 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:27:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 PM
Sure you can fire a game or 2 in that stadium built in Cork
Where are you putting the 20,000 extra seats?

I would be astonished if the terracing was not designed so that seats could be placed there.

And I'd be equally as astonished if it was and more if it was allowed

It is hardly rocket science to consider seating. Why should it not be allowed? was there not seating on Hill16 when Croke Park was used for soccer?

15 years ago on a temporary basis and inly for some games IIRC

If Dublin gets 2 stadia, maybe, maybe not. But dealing with the Hill is different to PUC which is well short of the 30,000 seats to start with. Seating the terracing might not get the magic number.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 23, 2022, 01:03:31 AM
How come there so little seating there given the cost of the stadium. With material in general up 30% and steel & Aluminium about 50% the cost of the stadium I say you could add £10 Million to previous estimates for Casement Park. Am not excately all on for paiding for a, stadium that may be full 3 games tops in a year if we lucky. And a few concerts. I do feel for residents in relation to concerts but they deliberately stretched things out to delay anything been done. And things have skyrocketed. I lost all sympathy for them. I remember been there in 1992 and 35k at it for Down V Derry. So it's not as if a crowd around 30k+ hasn't attended Casement before.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2022, 06:40:46 PM
Very catty Main St :P
Seems Turkey and fkn Russia have applied to hold the thingy now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on March 23, 2022, 06:47:05 PM
I think Newbridge has more chance than Russia
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2022, 10:12:48 AM
This white elephant still going ahead?

Have they wised the head with the spec yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on March 24, 2022, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.
Eh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?
No. You can still get a mortgage secured loan though
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?
No. You can still get a mortgage secured loan though


Ok.... Relevance here?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)





Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2022, 09:08:57 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)

Or traffic and accommodation around it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 25, 2022, 10:09:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2022, 09:08:57 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)

Or traffic and accommodation around it

Imagine Ronaldo in the Creighton Hotel.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2022, 10:11:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 25, 2022, 10:09:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2022, 09:08:57 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)

Or traffic and accommodation around it

Imagine Ronaldo in the Creighton Hotel.

He'd need to work out how to stay fit to play
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 26, 2022, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

Sigh. The FAI own half a building. The IRFU own the other half. The IRFU own the land the buildimg is on, so the FAI pay them a nominal ground rent. The expectation is the building has a lifespan of 60 years and then as you say they will make a call to rebuild or go seperate ways. In other words exactly like owning an apartment. There is no lease.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on March 28, 2022, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 26, 2022, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

Sigh. The FAI own half a building. The IRFU own the other half. The IRFU own the land the buildimg is on, so the FAI pay them a nominal ground rent. The expectation is the building has a lifespan of 60 years and then as you say they will make a call to rebuild or go seperate ways. In other words exactly like owning an apartment. There is no lease.

The FAI own 50% of the right to use the Aviva for 60 years.
'on completion of that term (60 years) , the IRFU would assume, or rather re-assume, ownership of the land, or at any point before that if the stadium was deemed unfit for purpose. Even if, and this might cause considerable embarrassment for the FAI in future years, it is decided that the stadium can safely be used for, say, a further 10 years after the 60–year lease has expired, the IRFU will become sole owners and the FAI will revert back to being tenants.'


https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/
(https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 28, 2022, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:34:50 AM
Euro 2028 now likely to come, so it is Casement or nothing if Norn Iron is to be involved.
is Windsor not big enough?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sensethetone on March 28, 2022, 12:36:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 28, 2022, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2022, 11:34:50 AM
Euro 2028 now likely to come, so it is Casement or nothing if Norn Iron is to be involved.
is Windsor not big enough?

Windsor only holds 18K requirement is 30k.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2022, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)

I know that was a tongue in cheek post....
But as soccer followers can't be allowed stand on their own feet at a match Clones would have to put a load of seats in reducing capacity to 15 or 18k perhaps.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2022, 01:18:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2022, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)

I know that was a tongue in cheek post....
But as soccer followers can't be allowed stand on their own feet at a match Clones would have to put a load of seats in reducing capacity to 15 or 18k perhaps.

Does Clones have the hotels, public transport and airports required?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Average Score on March 28, 2022, 01:20:34 PM
What would the soccer folk make of some trampy looking thing trying to pin a ribbon on them and looking money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on March 28, 2022, 01:21:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2022, 01:18:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2022, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 25, 2022, 08:25:36 PM
UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere. ;)

I know that was a tongue in cheek post....
But as soccer followers can't be allowed stand on their own feet at a match Clones would have to put a load of seats in reducing capacity to 15 or 18k perhaps.

Does Clones have the hotels, public transport and airports required?

It has lots of Burger and chip vans.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 28, 2022, 01:21:28 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 28, 2022, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 26, 2022, 03:25:14 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 25, 2022, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 25, 2022, 12:55:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 24, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 24, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 23, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 11:31:47 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 09:59:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on March 22, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 22, 2022, 08:53:31 PM
Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.
Try that again...
When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196 (https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196)

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh)

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.
Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

Sigh. The FAI own half a building. The IRFU own the other half. The IRFU own the land the buildimg is on, so the FAI pay them a nominal ground rent. The expectation is the building has a lifespan of 60 years and then as you say they will make a call to rebuild or go seperate ways. In other words exactly like owning an apartment. There is no lease.

The FAI own 50% of the right to use the Aviva for 60 years.
'on completion of that term (60 years) , the IRFU would assume, or rather re-assume, ownership of the land, or at any point before that if the stadium was deemed unfit for purpose. Even if, and this might cause considerable embarrassment for the FAI in future years, it is decided that the stadium can safely be used for, say, a further 10 years after the 60–year lease has expired, the IRFU will become sole owners and the FAI will revert back to being tenants.'


https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/
(https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/)

An archived 12 year old article fom a defunct paper. You went deep there to find reference to a lease.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on April 27, 2022, 03:47:11 PM
Meanwhile back at the ranch...

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/04/27/news/planning-procedures-usurped-by-an-agreement-reached-for-the-redevelopment-of-casement-court-hears-2653080/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/04/27/news/planning-procedures-usurped-by-an-agreement-reached-for-the-redevelopment-of-casement-court-hears-2653080/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2022, 09:20:34 PM
Don't worry, Naomi will engineer it
https://twitter.com/BelTel_Sport/status/1518987015210946561
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on April 28, 2022, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2022, 09:20:34 PM
Don't worry, Naomi will engineer it
https://twitter.com/BelTel_Sport/status/1518987015210946561
The new plan needs £110m (and counting!), while only £62m, plus the GAA's own £15m, was allocated originally. So at a time when ordinary people are struggling to pay their electricity bills etc, where is the extra £33m (and counting) going to come from?

You'd almost think there was an election due...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2022, 03:12:05 PM
If last weeks game v Cavan is anything to go by why is needed?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2022, 03:20:34 PM
We're there even  300 Antrim people there?
Just build what the available funds will allow.
A 5k seated stand and some terracing on the other 3 sides will be more than adequate..... unless of course this soccer tourney thing happens.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 28, 2022, 03:32:30 PM
It doesn't/won't belong to Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 28, 2022, 10:01:40 PM
Does Antrim not deserve their own stadium, what was wrong with building a 25k seater anyway, concentrate on the Gaa and f**k the concerts, something like Armagh had was suffice. Place totally unsuitable for concerts The Rugby and Soccer upgrades never looked at concert provision. I prefer Clones anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 28, 2022, 10:19:30 PM
This has nothing to do with Antrim want/need, it's always been political. Sinn Fein are hell bent on delivering this, not just to save face but also for their own means as their subsidiaries will more than likely be based in it. The big Feile events will be in it, which obviously benefits Sinn Fein
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kickham csc on April 29, 2022, 12:21:11 AM
Usually stay quiet on this issues but I'm getting frustrated on this topic so here goes.

1) the size and capacity for this stadium has nothing to do  with Antrim, it's an Ulster council project and they are planning for semi finals / finals, and 34,000 is what they want
2) The Ulster council are following a standard global stadium business model, where they want to maximize the facility economic potential, therefore conferences, concerts etc need to be considered. This is important, if you can develop alternative funding streams that lessen the load on your current revenue sources you would be an idiot not to do it.
3) Antrim signed Casement over to the UC because the stand needed to be demolished and rebuilt and the Ulster council stepped in, took ownership of the site and responsibility to the demolition etc
4) Ulster council were too arrogant, assuming approval was a certanity, and Antrim board were too naive, believing the Ulster council knew what they were talking about
5) The design problems center around the design concept of traditional stadium bowl. It might have been easier to have private boxes, conference facilities focused on the Andytown road and the existing stand location with the other two sides single tier with support facilities. This would have eliminated the concern of residents about the height of the stadium. (Reading FC, NASCAR stadiums are designed like this   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on April 29, 2022, 09:28:39 AM
What kinda of area is Casement Park in.
are conferences, concerts other buiness ventures etc a viable Idea for a cross section of the Belfast population  . which a conference centre would need
The idea of private boxes seemes a bit daft considering how few major games itll probably hold.
what the gaa needs is a smallish (25K) stadium built to high modern standard for may be all ireland semis or league finals , ladies matches ETC.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 29, 2022, 10:00:51 AM
From memory of my last visit there it's mostly residential.
There were around 600 people at the match and I had to go to the end of a road to find a parking space between 2 gateways to houses.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on April 29, 2022, 11:11:31 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 29, 2022, 07:45:38 AM
Why did the stand have to be demolished?

It's a bit mad that they gave away their ground, worth a hell of a lot of money because a stand for a couple of hundred people "needed demolished".

A stand, by the way, that still hasn't been demolished and that still houses a functioning social club.

Very strange.

Antrim never gave away their ground although pressure was exerted by the Ulster Council to sign it over to them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on April 29, 2022, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on April 29, 2022, 12:21:11 AM
Usually stay quiet on this issues but I'm getting frustrated on this topic so here goes.

1) the size and capacity for this stadium has nothing to do  with Antrim, it's an Ulster council project and they are planning for semi finals / finals, and 34,000 is what they want
2) The Ulster council are following a standard global stadium business model, where they want to maximize the facility economic potential, therefore conferences, concerts etc need to be considered. This is important, if you can develop alternative funding streams that lessen the load on your current revenue sources you would be an idiot not to do it.
3) Antrim signed Casement over to the UC because the stand needed to be demolished and rebuilt and the Ulster council stepped in, took ownership of the site and responsibility to the demolition etc
4) Ulster council were too arrogant, assuming approval was a certanity, and Antrim board were too naive, believing the Ulster council knew what they were talking about
5) The design problems center around the design concept of traditional stadium bowl. It might have been easier to have private boxes, conference facilities focused on the Andytown road and the existing stand location with the other two sides single tier with support facilities. This would have eliminated the concern of residents about the height of the stadium. (Reading FC, NASCAR stadiums are designed like this   

That didnt happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 30, 2022, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?

This is the $100,000,000 question. Even if certain parts of the stand had structural problems you had all the terraces and the floodlights etc and the pitch itself which should have been used all along. It makes no sense and nobody has been called out about this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2022, 09:36:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 30, 2022, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?

This is the $100,000,000 question. Even if certain parts of the stand had structural problems you had all the terraces and the floodlights etc and the pitch itself which should have been used all along. It makes no sense and nobody has been called out about this.

Didn't want to pay the insurance I believe was the reason it closed thinking it was getting knocked down that winter
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2022, 10:18:36 AM
But when it become evident the issue was going to stretch long term why not close of the stand, reinsurance the stadium and progress with fball, I seen a Derry, Antrim U-21 game from the stand either the Yr they were closing it or Yr before. It was fairly old, but only a small part of the stadium. If no insurance how did the clubhouse keep running.?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2022, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on May 01, 2022, 10:34:43 AM
Because they ripped the ground apart for every bit of scrap they could find.
The twats.

Yeah stripped the metal and left it so that you couldn't use the ground safely
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2022, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 30, 2022, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?

This is the $100,000,000 question. Even if certain parts of the stand had structural problems you had all the terraces and the floodlights etc and the pitch itself which should have been used all along. It makes no sense and nobody has been called out about this.

Has anyone asked the great McGeehan this??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on May 01, 2022, 10:56:19 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2022, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 30, 2022, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?

This is the $100,000,000 question. Even if certain parts of the stand had structural problems you had all the terraces and the floodlights etc and the pitch itself which should have been used all along. It makes no sense and nobody has been called out about this.

Has anyone asked the great McGeehan this??

Mcgeehan was sleeping at the wheel. Too busy plotting a route to replace Danny Murphy. Locking horns with Ryan Feeney. Two bluffers of the highest order.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on May 01, 2022, 11:23:17 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on May 01, 2022, 10:56:19 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2022, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 30, 2022, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?

This is the $100,000,000 question. Even if certain parts of the stand had structural problems you had all the terraces and the floodlights etc and the pitch itself which should have been used all along. It makes no sense and nobody has been called out about this.

Has anyone asked the great McGeehan this??

Mcgeehan was sleeping at the wheel. Too busy plotting a route to replace Danny Murphy. Locking horns with Ryan Feeney. Two bluffers of the highest order.
There are are few bluffers about ok.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on May 12, 2022, 01:48:53 PM
Announced today, 2027 rugby world cup will be in Oz then 2031 in Us so we should get a bid ready for 2035 with casement or then again we wil probably be still be having a further judicial review that year ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 12, 2022, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: restorepride on May 01, 2022, 11:23:17 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on May 01, 2022, 10:56:19 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2022, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 30, 2022, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 30, 2022, 11:03:11 PM
Why was the current pitch not kept in use to actual planning for a new stadium was approved?

This is the $100,000,000 question. Even if certain parts of the stand had structural problems you had all the terraces and the floodlights etc and the pitch itself which should have been used all along. It makes no sense and nobody has been called out about this.

Has anyone asked the great McGeehan this??

Mcgeehan was sleeping at the wheel. Too busy plotting a route to replace Danny Murphy. Locking horns with Ryan Feeney. Two bluffers of the highest order.
There are are few bluffers about ok.

Careerists
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on May 12, 2022, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on October 07, 2010, 06:44:08 PM
Can anyone tell me why it HAS to be spent on stadia and nowhere else? 
isn't it because Originally the money was to buld a super stadium but soccer and rugty built teir own grounds and the remainder is left over for the GAA to update their stadium or build a now one and the money was ring fenced
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2022, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on May 12, 2022, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on October 07, 2010, 06:44:08 PM
Can anyone tell me why it HAS to be spent on stadia and nowhere else? 
isn't it because Originally the money was to buld a super stadium but soccer and rugty built teir own grounds and the remainder is left over for the GAA to update their stadium or build a now one and the money was ring fenced

Fair play to you responding to a post from 2010. You've clearly taken time to consider your response.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 31, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Looks like it's finally the green light. Judicial review rejected.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on May 31, 2022, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Looks like it's finally the green light. Judicial review rejected.


Green light go.

Just need to find another £15-20M under the sofa
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 31, 2022, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2022, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Looks like it's finally the green light. Judicial review rejected.


Green light go.

Just need to find another £15-20M under the sofa

Ah the money is there. Executive has to fund the shortfall.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on May 31, 2022, 11:33:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2022, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Looks like it's finally the green light. Judicial review rejected.


Green light go.

Just need to find another £15-20M under the sofa

Ah the money is there. Executive has to fund the shortfall.
How do you work that out?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 31, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Quote from: p3427977 on May 31, 2022, 11:33:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2022, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Looks like it's finally the green light. Judicial review rejected.


Green light go.

Just need to find another £15-20M under the sofa

Ah the money is there. Executive has to fund the shortfall.
How do you work that out?

There's money already ring fenced. And they can take money out of the infrastructure and communities budget to fund the shortfall. A deficit of even of £30 or £40 million isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on May 31, 2022, 11:52:01 AM
Ciaran McCavana loves it. What an ego
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on May 31, 2022, 11:56:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Quote from: p3427977 on May 31, 2022, 11:33:00 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2022, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 10:58:59 AM
Looks like it's finally the green light. Judicial review rejected.


Green light go.

Just need to find another £15-20M under the sofa

Ah the money is there. Executive has to fund the shortfall.
How do you work that out?

There's money already ring fenced. And they can take money out of the infrastructure and communities budget to fund the shortfall. A deficit of even of £30 or £40 million isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah isn't it £30million ring fenced? I can't see the Executive increase this amount. Will it mean giving more to the IRFU and the IFA? That's without even taking into account the current shambles at the minute.

I think the GAA will have to cover the shortfall. Did the Irish government provide any funds for say Páirc Uí Chaoimh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:04:43 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 31, 2022, 11:52:01 AM
Ciaran McCavana loves it. What an ego

Comes across poorly
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year
One all ireland Quarter final per year
Two big concerts per year?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football
Ulster Club hurling Finals
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clubman21 on May 31, 2022, 12:52:44 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year
One all ireland Quarter final per year
Two big concerts per year?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football
Ulster Club hurling Finals
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.
Cluthing at straws bringing in a few of these, namely the antrim football team. Couldn't sell out a corrigan park for a first home ulster championship game for years. Dont get me started on the aussie rules part
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 31, 2022, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Clones is a kip and needs updating. No options in the North for an AIQF
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 31, 2022, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Clones is a kip and needs updating. No options in the North for an AIQF

Yeah so update it is what they should have done instaed of this Casement debacle
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on May 31, 2022, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 31, 2022, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Clones is a kip and needs updating. No options in the North for an AIQF

Are options needed in the North will they not be Croke Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:26:00 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on May 31, 2022, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 31, 2022, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Clones is a kip and needs updating. No options in the North for an AIQF

Are options needed in the North will they not be Croke Park?

I agree, red herring, counties want their day out in Dublin
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 01:31:10 PM
Clones is as Ulster football as Cavan's 39 titles and goes back to partition plus NI's occasional lapses into communal violence. It's in the RoI and it can continue regardless of what chaos there is in the 6 counties. Cavan doesn't win as much when things are quiet. If Belfast has a fine stadium it should be used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 31, 2022, 01:43:10 PM
Clones is a dump. In this day and age we need a state of the art stadium to watch our games and future proof the spectators experience. This is a brand new free stadium. Why people are resisting it is beyond me. If the money isn't spent on this it'll be spent on some other project.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on May 31, 2022, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:04:43 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 31, 2022, 11:52:01 AM
Ciaran McCavana loves it. What an ego

Comes across poorly

someone better tell him the Antrim CB will get a wee corner office somewhere if the Ulster Council allow it.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: APM on May 31, 2022, 01:59:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 01:31:10 PM
Clones is as Ulster football as Cavan's 39 titles and goes back to partition plus NI's occasional lapses into communal violence. It's in the RoI and it can continue regardless of what chaos there is in the 6 counties. Cavan doesn't win as much when things are quiet. If Belfast has a fine stadium it should be used.

Seriously Seafoid? This is drivel!  You clearly don't have time to write out a reasoned post, so instead we have this one-liner, sweeping authoritative statement that does not stand up to scrutiny. I don't know why you do this because when you do take time to put together your thoughts they are worth reading. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 02:01:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

Antrims home ground. So at least 3 League games, and potential for more based on home draw in Ulster Championship. Add in the hurlers. You'll likely now seem Ulster semi finals there as well as the final. New Championship system next year with neutral venues needed for some will see games added to Championship and use there too. Remember, from 2023 onwards, there are now many more games and options for when it will be needed. As it will become the provinces defacto home stadium, and they'll set games there. I think it'll see a lot of games. It's vastly different than PUC
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 02:02:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 01:43:10 PM
Clones is a dump. In this day and age we need a state of the art stadium to watch our games and future proof the spectators experience. This is a brand new free stadium. Why people are resisting it is beyond me. If the money isn't spent on this it'll be spent on some other project.

Exactly. Although no harm to upgrade Clones too, they've simply put just no money into it recently to keep it up to scratch.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on May 31, 2022, 02:18:15 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 02:01:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

Antrims home ground. So at least 3 League games, and potential for more based on home draw in Ulster Championship. Add in the hurlers. You'll likely now seem Ulster semi finals there as well as the final. New Championship system next year with neutral venues needed for some will see games added to Championship and use there too. Remember, from 2023 onwards, there are now many more games and options for when it will be needed. As it will become the provinces defacto home stadium, and they'll set games there. I think it'll see a lot of games. It's vastly different than PUC

And all generated revenue taxed to the hilt no?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 31, 2022, 02:18:15 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 02:01:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

Antrims home ground. So at least 3 League games, and potential for more based on home draw in Ulster Championship. Add in the hurlers. You'll likely now seem Ulster semi finals there as well as the final. New Championship system next year with neutral venues needed for some will see games added to Championship and use there too. Remember, from 2023 onwards, there are now many more games and options for when it will be needed. As it will become the provinces defacto home stadium, and they'll set games there. I think it'll see a lot of games. It's vastly different than PUC

And all generated revenue taxed to the hilt no?

Probably. Unless they get some way around it. What's the alternative though? Clones is done without huge investment...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 02:35:06 PM
5/7 yrs of delays by orders to something which was always going to be passed, what was the point, I seen this with the M2 run to Castledawson, the work was always gonna get passed in the long run.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sam03/05 on May 31, 2022, 02:57:29 PM
Clones is a dump stuck in the 1980s.
Had kids there at weekend, toilet facilities woeful, more or less no cover to the elements ( yes it was good day thankfully) , Try bringing very young kids, no where to get food, a drink of water.
Or bring them to the toilet.
A new modern stadium with proper facilities would be brilliant
And for Belfast as well for concerts etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 03:35:17 PM
Without doubt.

Funding is going to be a major issue here.

The shinners have a problem, in that they will have to campaign for this to be funded whilst also explaining why the money shouldn't be going to mitigate the cost of living crisis.

A sticky wicket

A good day for the Gaels of Ulster all the same.

And a bad day for our resident planter (I hope he's not too offended), who seems to have a real bee in his bonnet about this particular topic.

Even sweeter that this slap in the teeth was delivered to him by the notoriously impartial British judicial system  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.

The original funding was ringfenced.

The extra £40m? or so that the delay has added to the cost has yet to be found.

The GAA are adamant that they are not increasing their original £15m contribution

So that basically leaves Stormont
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.

Partitionist Spake there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.

Partitionist Spake there

Oof, I know. Should know better as I live in the 6. Weren't they calling it something like that? The thing at the Maze?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 03:47:12 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.

Partitionist Spake there

Oof, I know. Should know better as I live in the 6. Weren't they calling it something like that? The thing at the Maze?

lol lad , they be calling you a stoop on here in a minute, yeah I think they were trying to throw that term at it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2022, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.

The original funding was ringfenced.

The extra £40m? or so that the delay has added to the cost has yet to be found.

The GAA are adamant that they are not increasing their original £15m contribution

So that basically leaves Stormont
Build what ye can with the money available!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pbat on May 31, 2022, 04:20:41 PM
Get it out for tender immediately, get a start made.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 04:45:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2022, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 31, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
Surely the DUP are going to turn this request for extra funding into a political football. They've a brass neck of course but we know what they're like.

Money already ring fenced as it was agreed, along with Winsdor and Ravenhill. Don't think they can stop anything on it now as it was part of the deal not to build a national stadium for all 3.

The original funding was ringfenced.

The extra £40m? or so that the delay has added to the cost has yet to be found.

The GAA are adamant that they are not increasing their original £15m contribution

So that basically leaves Stormont
Build what ye can with the money available!

Aye, dead on.

Redesign the whole thing and we'll go back to the planners.

A cracking idea.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 04:50:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 01:31:10 PM
Clones is as Ulster football as Cavan's 39 titles and goes back to partition plus NI's occasional lapses into communal violence. It's in the RoI and it can continue regardless of what chaos there is in the 6 counties. Cavan doesn't win as much when things are quiet. If Belfast has a fine stadium it should be used.

Cavan have 40 titles  ::)

All but the last 2 are rarely mentioned outside Cavan

Please stop pontificating immediately as ye haven't a notion
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 31, 2022, 04:53:09 PM
GET

HER

BUILT

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 31, 2022, 04:53:09 PM
GET

HER

BUILT Somewhere else
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on May 31, 2022, 05:24:51 PM
The biggest mistake Antrim GAA ever made was handing over the keys (and there have been plenty of mistakes). Ulster Council clapping themselves on the back this afternoon. Jokers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:26:24 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Is it pencilled in for 3 or 4 concerts every year?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:28:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 31, 2022, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Clones is a kip and needs updating. No options in the North for an AIQF

Clones a nightmare for traffic - in and out.

Be quicker going to Croker!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:28:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 31, 2022, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 31, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 31, 2022, 12:20:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
It's just gona turn into another Cork mess with their stadium, Price materials went up 30% in the last year,

Sure, prices will be up, but it won't be a mess like Cork. This is set to be used regularly, and if built as meant to, will be fit for purpose. PUC was a white elephant even before being rebuilt

Really? When?

One Ulster final per year -We have Clones
One all ireland Quarter final per year-We already have options
Two big concerts per year?-What?
Plus Antrim Hurling and Football-Couldnt fill Corrigan
Ulster Club hurling Finals-Loads of options
Ulster Colleges Finals, depending on who is in them-Naw
If the Aussie Rules thing ever returns it could host one of them-Clutching
Plus Rugby World Cup/ European Championships if they ever happen
Full 4 times a year, busy quite a few others.- We have the grounds already
Clones is a kip and needs updating. No options in the North for an AIQF

Clones a nightmare for traffic - in and out.

Be quicker going to Croker!

That depends on where you live. The places near Casement like Down and Antrim are useless, while there is at least some interest in places nearer Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

Yeah I've said all along. Mid Ulster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on May 31, 2022, 06:44:30 PM
is there any point if all they are going to do there is play ulster finals and antrim games why dont the gaa have the 4 quarter finals in 4 difference provinces
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

The Gaels of Ardara might be a little aggrieved, but given that it's a shorter journey from Malin to Casement, those in that vicinity should be happy enough.

That's unless they're moaning plonkers.

The reality is, unless this is built somewhere between Omagh and Cookstown, it's not going to be central

It kinda had to be in a city if you want the infrastructure to support concerts/conferences etc

And let's face it, who wants to go to Derry City to get the car broken into  ;)

So it's kinda got to be Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

The Gaels of Ardara might be a little aggrieved, but given that it's a shorter journey from Malin to Casement, those in that vicinity should be happy enough.

That's unless they're moaning plonkers.

The reality is, unless this is built somewhere between Omagh and Cookstown, it's not going to be central

It kinda had to be in a city if you want the infrastructure to support concerts/conferences etc

And let's face it, who wants to go to Derry City to get the car broken into  ;)

So it's kinda got to be Belfast

Yeah that's what I'm saying mid Ulster . So we agree.  Btw it shouldn't be in Derry or you haven't read my post and we have virtually zero car crime, you must be mixing us up with Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

The Gaels of Ardara might be a little aggrieved, but given that it's a shorter journey from Malin to Casement, those in that vicinity should be happy enough.

That's unless they're moaning plonkers.

The reality is, unless this is built somewhere between Omagh and Cookstown, it's not going to be central

It kinda had to be in a city if you want the infrastructure to support concerts/conferences etc

And let's face it, who wants to go to Derry City to get the car broken into  ;)

So it's kinda got to be Belfast

Yeah that's what I'm saying mid Ulster . So we agree.  Btw it shouldn't be in Derry or you haven't read my post and we have virtually zero car crime, you must be mixing us up with Belfast

Just searched booking.com

There's no end of hotels and restaurants in Greencastle  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

The Gaels of Ardara might be a little aggrieved, but given that it's a shorter journey from Malin to Casement, those in that vicinity should be happy enough.

That's unless they're moaning plonkers.

The reality is, unless this is built somewhere between Omagh and Cookstown, it's not going to be central

It kinda had to be in a city if you want the infrastructure to support concerts/conferences etc

And let's face it, who wants to go to Derry City to get the car broken into  ;)

So it's kinda got to be Belfast

Yeah that's what I'm saying mid Ulster . So we agree.  Btw it shouldn't be in Derry or you haven't read my post and we have virtually zero car crime, you must be mixing us up with Belfast

Just searched booking.com

There's no end of hotels and restaurants in Greencastle  ::)

A hotel for Ulster final ? The New Spoilt Generation. Flask of Tae and back in house for Sunday Game
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 31, 2022, 10:04:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

The Gaels of Ardara might be a little aggrieved, but given that it's a shorter journey from Malin to Casement, those in that vicinity should be happy enough.

That's unless they're moaning plonkers.

The reality is, unless this is built somewhere between Omagh and Cookstown, it's not going to be central

It kinda had to be in a city if you want the infrastructure to support concerts/conferences etc

And let's face it, who wants to go to Derry City to get the car broken into  ;)

So it's kinda got to be Belfast

Yeah that's what I'm saying mid Ulster . So we agree.  Btw it shouldn't be in Derry or you haven't read my post and we have virtually zero car crime, you must be mixing us up with Belfast

Just searched booking.com

There's no end of hotels and restaurants in Greencastle  ::)

A hotel for Ulster final ? The New Spoilt Generation. Flask of Tae and back in house for Sunday Game

Well fcuk me you're in luck then

It takes less time to get from Belfast to Derry, than it does from Clones to Derry

So now you might even catch the tail end of Glenroe

Belfast it is then
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 10:04:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 09:42:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 08:13:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 31, 2022, 07:06:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

The Gaels of Ardara might be a little aggrieved, but given that it's a shorter journey from Malin to Casement, those in that vicinity should be happy enough.

That's unless they're moaning plonkers.

The reality is, unless this is built somewhere between Omagh and Cookstown, it's not going to be central

It kinda had to be in a city if you want the infrastructure to support concerts/conferences etc

And let's face it, who wants to go to Derry City to get the car broken into  ;)

So it's kinda got to be Belfast

Yeah that's what I'm saying mid Ulster . So we agree.  Btw it shouldn't be in Derry or you haven't read my post and we have virtually zero car crime, you must be mixing us up with Belfast

Just searched booking.com

There's no end of hotels and restaurants in Greencastle  ::)

A hotel for Ulster final ? The New Spoilt Generation. Flask of Tae and back in house for Sunday Game

Well fcuk me you're in luck then

It takes less time to get from Belfast to Derry, than it does from Clones to Derry

So now you might even catch the tail end of Glenroe

Belfast it is then

Met Miley once sound man and makes a great ham sandwich to be fair. Thinks on others before himself ,civil cratur
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 11:30:29 PM
Build the new stadium in south Derry.

Close enough to east Tyrone and south west Antrim (Cargin, Creggan and Portglenone etc.

Close to the motorway and by-pass up into the Cookstown area.

Ideal spot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on May 31, 2022, 11:39:51 PM
All this bullshit .Stop it.It's going to be built in west Belfast, our second city. Rightly so.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:43:15 PM
Another white Elephant
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Loughshore2022 on May 31, 2022, 11:51:03 PM
Casement Park was one of my favourite sports grounds. One of my favourite childhood memories is the 2000 Derry Antrim drawn game. However by the looks of the plans it will be a soulless looking stadium losing all of what made it such an iconic place. I also don't like Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:04:47 AM
will antrim even get that big of a crowd for hurling matches or  football matches
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 01, 2022, 12:14:33 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster
Will depend on what concerts they have on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on June 01, 2022, 08:33:46 AM
Absolutely fantastic that this is finally going to be sorted.

My memory of big games in Casement for Armagh were usually happy ones.  An absolute ballix for match day parking though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 01, 2022, 08:58:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.
Antrim club championship finals too no?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 01, 2022, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:04:47 AM
will antrim even get that big of a crowd for hurling matches or  football matches

No
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 09:15:07 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 01, 2022, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:04:47 AM
will antrim even get that big of a crowd for hurling matches or  football matches

No

hurling more so tan football but they need to stay up the levels
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
It's not.

Are you sure it's not going to be ??  ( i know nothing about it but find that strange if Antrim GAA are not going to get use of it)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoeSoap on June 01, 2022, 09:45:10 AM
I live in Belfast, the area is a killer for parking but the Glider goes out that way. I haven't checked in on the plans in a long time but was there not talk of putting in good transport links/park and ride facilities?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 09:48:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
It's not.

Are you sure it's not going to be ??  ( i know nothing about it but find that strange if Antrim GAA are not going to get use of it)

Like in Cork a stadium management team will be put in place to generate revenue from the place by the Ulster Council.

If Antrim want to use it, they'll pay for it like the Cork Camogs when they use Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 09:49:32 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 31, 2022, 11:43:15 PM
Another white Elephant

How so? By any measure it'll be decently used. And Clones is on the way out. We need a stadium for games here
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 09:48:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
It's not.

Are you sure it's not going to be ??  ( i know nothing about it but find that strange if Antrim GAA are not going to get use of it)

Like in Cork a stadium management team will be put in place to generate revenue from the place by the Ulster Council.

If Antrim want to use it, they'll pay for it like the Cork Camogs when they use Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Going by what you are saying it's a waste of money  giving what its going to cost as it looks like the Gaels in Antrim will be looking at it instead of playing in it.  If they spent a few quid in updating/maintaining the county grounds in all the counties it would be a lot better off. ( i know there is a lot of government money going in but the GAA will end up ponying up as well here)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 10:40:26 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 10:07:36 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 09:48:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
It's not.

Are you sure it's not going to be ??  ( i know nothing about it but find that strange if Antrim GAA are not going to get use of it)

Like in Cork a stadium management team will be put in place to generate revenue from the place by the Ulster Council.

If Antrim want to use it, they'll pay for it like the Cork Camogs when they use Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Going by what you are saying it's a waste of money  giving what its going to cost as it looks like the Gaels in Antrim will be looking at it instead of playing in it.  If they spent a few quid in updating/maintaining the county grounds in all the counties it would be a lot better off. ( i know there is a lot of government money going in but the GAA will end up ponying up as well here)
No they won't.

Time will tell on that...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2022, 11:09:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 09:48:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
It's not.

Are you sure it's not going to be ??  ( i know nothing about it but find that strange if Antrim GAA are not going to get use of it)

Like in Cork a stadium management team will be put in place to generate revenue from the place by the Ulster Council.

If Antrim want to use it, they'll pay for it like the Cork Camogs when they use Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

I honestly don't know, but was there not an agreement that Antrim would get to use it, in return for handing Casement over? They did originally own the ground. Otherwise they'd have sold it to the UC and built there own county ground? Did I pick that up wrong?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 12:15:36 PM
Good run through here from Cahair O'Kane about Casement, and what is expected of it when it opens. Answers a lot of questions posed above about how often it will be used, Antrims use of it and so on.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/ (https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 01, 2022, 12:19:59 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 12:15:36 PM
Good run through here from Cahair O'Kane about Casement, and what is expected of it when it opens. Answers a lot of questions posed above about how often it will be used, Antrims use of it and so on.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/ (https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/)

"We had an agreement in place with Antrim. With the passage of time, clearly we'll sit down and look at that again. Antrim will enjoy a lot of good days in Casement.

"Depending on their status in the leagues, it will make sense that some of those games would be played at Casement because they would attract a good crowd.

"There's nothing I would say is definite but Antrim's [club] hurling and football finals were always played at Casement, I don't see any reason why those wouldn't be played at the new Casement either."

Stephen McGeehan  ???

So if Antrim are in Div3 or 4 in Football off to Corrigan you go............
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on June 01, 2022, 12:22:49 PM
I dont think any neutral counties who has been behind this project would be happy if this is not used by Antrim as their main pitch, and an area to build the GAA from in Belfast.   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 12:58:31 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 01, 2022, 12:19:59 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 12:15:36 PM
Good run through here from Cahair O'Kane about Casement, and what is expected of it when it opens. Answers a lot of questions posed above about how often it will be used, Antrims use of it and so on.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/ (https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/)

"We had an agreement in place with Antrim. With the passage of time, clearly we'll sit down and look at that again. Antrim will enjoy a lot of good days in Casement.

"Depending on their status in the leagues, it will make sense that some of those games would be played at Casement because they would attract a good crowd.

"There's nothing I would say is definite but Antrim's [club] hurling and football finals were always played at Casement, I don't see any reason why those wouldn't be played at the new Casement either."

Stephen McGeehan  ???

So if Antrim are in Div3 or 4 in Football off to Corrigan you go............

Decent wee ground. Probably the better option if expecting a low crowd of less than 3k anyway. If they can continually get big crowds though, then Casement is in play. Like Monaghan don't always play Clones, but go around the county for League games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on June 01, 2022, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: rrhf on June 01, 2022, 12:22:49 PM
I dont think any neutral counties who has been behind this project would be happy if this is not used by Antrim as their main pitch, and an area to build the GAA from in Belfast.
Why wouldnt it be used by Antrim. It is their county ground - they own it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 10:07:36 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 09:48:46 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 01, 2022, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 31, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2022, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2022, 05:46:51 PM
I'm sure the Gaels of Ardara and Malin are delighted. This has nothing to do with the "Gaels of Ulster" Bully boy tactics .

What about the Gaels of Portaferry etc.?

and the ones in Portavogie.

And Donaghadee.  :)

don't laugh, we've a few wee camogs from Portavogie in the pipeline, Donaghadee is a step too far though  ;D

Quote from: Eire90 on June 01, 2022, 12:06:21 AM
will club teams get access to it  or is it just for antrim and ulster

If you're expecting the South Antrim primary school finals to be played there, then that's a no.

Ulster Club championship games at best played there.

It's the county ground would expect lots of club finals including underage to be played in it.
It's not.

Are you sure it's not going to be ??  ( i know nothing about it but find that strange if Antrim GAA are not going to get use of it)

Like in Cork a stadium management team will be put in place to generate revenue from the place by the Ulster Council.

If Antrim want to use it, they'll pay for it like the Cork Camogs when they use Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Going by what you are saying it's a waste of money  giving what its going to cost as it looks like the Gaels in Antrim will be looking at it instead of playing in it.  If they spent a few quid in updating/maintaining the county grounds in all the counties it would be a lot better off. ( i know there is a lot of government money going in but the GAA will end up ponying up as well here)
No they won't.
£15 according to that article
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 01, 2022, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 01, 2022, 12:19:59 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 12:15:36 PM
Good run through here from Cahair O'Kane about Casement, and what is expected of it when it opens. Answers a lot of questions posed above about how often it will be used, Antrims use of it and so on.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/ (https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/06/01/news/new-casement-will-be-finished-in-2025-2729473/)

"We had an agreement in place with Antrim. With the passage of time, clearly we'll sit down and look at that again. Antrim will enjoy a lot of good days in Casement.

"Depending on their status in the leagues, it will make sense that some of those games would be played at Casement because they would attract a good crowd.

"There's nothing I would say is definite but Antrim's [club] hurling and football finals were always played at Casement, I don't see any reason why those wouldn't be played at the new Casement either."

Stephen McGeehan  ???

So if Antrim are in Div3 or 4 in Football off to Corrigan you go............

Will Ulster GAA be moving their offices to Casement Park now or will they still be in Armagh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on June 01, 2022, 01:54:15 PM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on June 01, 2022, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: rrhf on June 01, 2022, 12:22:49 PM
I dont think any neutral counties who has been behind this project would be happy if this is not used by Antrim as their main pitch, and an area to build the GAA from in Belfast.
Why wouldnt it be used by Antrim. It is their county ground - they own it.

Ulster GAA will own Casement as it was "gifted" to them by a previous Antrim executive. Linfield showed the way how to manage your ruling body, Antrim rolled over and got their belly tickled.

Whether Antrim are a sitting tenant, that's another debate.

I do however believe that the current Social Club will still have space in the new stadium but not allowed to open during events.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 01, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: JoeSoap on June 01, 2022, 09:45:10 AM
I live in Belfast, the area is a killer for parking but the Glider goes out that way. I haven't checked in on the plans in a long time but was there not talk of putting in good transport links/park and ride facilities?

I'd say that should be in the pipeline - in different areas to take the footfall away quicker.

It'd be sensible if in the planning.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2022, 02:38:41 PM
How in the name of God can a brand new state of the art stadium in which we can play our games be a white elephant? Some people won't be happy until every stadium is crumbling round them and the piss is running over their shoes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on June 01, 2022, 02:47:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2022, 02:38:41 PM
How in the name of God can a brand new state of the art stadium in which we can play our games be a white elephant?

Because it might only be filled once a year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 04:20:31 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

Only normal until it's not normal. Clones, despite the atmosphere, is a dump. A modern stadium, with transport links, is what's needed. The fact is, it's hard to get to, and most other counties have a long way to go to it, sometimes along the very same back roads
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2022, 04:32:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

An absolute no brainer, even for people with no brains.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 02:49:45 PM
IMHO if I was in charge of the Ulster Council and I was asked for a place to develop "premier" facilities for the province, then looking at a combination of general geographic location, population density, road links & the general spread of active GAA involvement at present, I'd had rather sought a site in Armagh or possibly Dungannon as a venue. But as it is, Belfast got the nod likely for other reasons. Personally, I never liked the "old" Casement Park that much - it always had a cold feeling to it at any games I was at there, probably because it was a very open stadium where the crowd was well away from the playing area. Contrast that to Clones where, for its faults, has its seating & standing areas closer to the pitch and benefits from a sort of "deep bowl" effect where noise from supporters doesn't escape as easily.
Nevertheless, the "new" Casement project is now too far ahead of itself for any alternative to be seriously reconsidered at least for the short term, so they better get it right from the start.

The old casement was awful. Good pitch . Awful location. Nightmare getting up to it , only fooling ourselves to say otherwise . Always took us 1.5 hours from Derry to Belfast and another hour to get to ground with traffic .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 01, 2022, 06:48:46 PM
Previous revised cost was £77million, given the cluster f**k of UUJ campus in Belfast and what its ending up at, I say  £90 million u be lucky to get near.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 01, 2022, 06:48:46 PM
Previous revised cost was £77million, given the cluster f**k of UUJ campus in Belfast and what its ending up at, I say  £90 million u be lucky to get near.

Anything to make Belfast work. Feck the rest of us . Magee left to rot
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on June 01, 2022, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 02:49:45 PM
IMHO if I was in charge of the Ulster Council and I was asked for a place to develop "premier" facilities for the province, then looking at a combination of general geographic location, population density, road links & the general spread of active GAA involvement at present, I'd had rather sought a site in Armagh or possibly Dungannon as a venue. But as it is, Belfast got the nod likely for other reasons. Personally, I never liked the "old" Casement Park that much - it always had a cold feeling to it at any games I was at there, probably because it was a very open stadium where the crowd was well away from the playing area. Contrast that to Clones where, for its faults, has its seating & standing areas closer to the pitch and benefits from a sort of "deep bowl" effect where noise from supporters doesn't escape as easily.
Nevertheless, the "new" Casement project is now too far ahead of itself for any alternative to be seriously reconsidered at least for the short term, so they better get it right from the start.

The old casement was awful. Good pitch . Awful location. Nightmare getting up to it , only fooling ourselves to say otherwise . Always took us 1.5 hours from Derry to Belfast and another hour to get to ground with traffic .
Roads and railways have improved since then and will continue improving by the time it's built.
I'm sure they'll have something planned in terms of traffic management be that a glider stop or park and ride. Anyone know what transport provisions are offered at Linfields ground?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on June 01, 2022, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 01, 2022, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 02:49:45 PM
IMHO if I was in charge of the Ulster Council and I was asked for a place to develop "premier" facilities for the province, then looking at a combination of general geographic location, population density, road links & the general spread of active GAA involvement at present, I'd had rather sought a site in Armagh or possibly Dungannon as a venue. But as it is, Belfast got the nod likely for other reasons. Personally, I never liked the "old" Casement Park that much - it always had a cold feeling to it at any games I was at there, probably because it was a very open stadium where the crowd was well away from the playing area. Contrast that to Clones where, for its faults, has its seating & standing areas closer to the pitch and benefits from a sort of "deep bowl" effect where noise from supporters doesn't escape as easily.
Nevertheless, the "new" Casement project is now too far ahead of itself for any alternative to be seriously reconsidered at least for the short term, so they better get it right from the start.

The old casement was awful. Good pitch . Awful location. Nightmare getting up to it , only fooling ourselves to say otherwise . Always took us 1.5 hours from Derry to Belfast and another hour to get to ground with traffic .
Roads and railways have improved since then and will continue improving by the time it's built.
I'm sure they'll have something planned in terms of traffic management be that a glider stop or park and ride. Anyone know what transport provisions are offered at Linfields ground?
It's a 10min walk from Adelaide Station. Casement would be a 27min walk from Balmoral. Casement would have the Glider which is far better than anything up Boucher.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2022, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 01, 2022, 06:52:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 01, 2022, 02:49:45 PM
IMHO if I was in charge of the Ulster Council and I was asked for a place to develop "premier" facilities for the province, then looking at a combination of general geographic location, population density, road links & the general spread of active GAA involvement at present, I'd had rather sought a site in Armagh or possibly Dungannon as a venue. But as it is, Belfast got the nod likely for other reasons. Personally, I never liked the "old" Casement Park that much - it always had a cold feeling to it at any games I was at there, probably because it was a very open stadium where the crowd was well away from the playing area. Contrast that to Clones where, for its faults, has its seating & standing areas closer to the pitch and benefits from a sort of "deep bowl" effect where noise from supporters doesn't escape as easily.
Nevertheless, the "new" Casement project is now too far ahead of itself for any alternative to be seriously reconsidered at least for the short term, so they better get it right from the start.

The old casement was awful. Good pitch . Awful location. Nightmare getting up to it , only fooling ourselves to say otherwise . Always took us 1.5 hours from Derry to Belfast and another hour to get to ground with traffic .
Roads and railways have improved since then and will continue improving by the time it's built.
I'm sure they'll have something planned in terms of traffic management be that a glider stop or park and ride. Anyone know what transport provisions are offered at Linfields ground?

There will be special trains from Cavan with stops at Clones, Monaghan and Armagh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 01, 2022, 08:33:32 PM
Casement always been awkard to get in and out off and like 2 pubs max for a ulster final crowd, that go down well
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 12:24:20 AM
27 minutes walk from station at Balmoral? On the way into Clones you park your car at that car park and dander same distance but that's ok...

It'll be quicker walking to Casement than Croke from Connelly seems no probs either...

Pubs around Casement, I can think of ten within short distance
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 01:20:48 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Really think you should consider deleting that post
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Derry GAA should have sold Celtic Park for housing at the boom time and built another stand at Owenbeg.

A great opportunity lost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Derry GAA should have sold Celtic Park for housing at the boom time and built another stand at Owenbeg.

A great opportunity lost.

Unrelated. Different thread
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 10:28:07 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 01:20:48 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Really think you should consider deleting that post

Why?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Derry GAA should have sold Celtic Park for housing at the boom time and built another stand at Owenbeg.

A great opportunity lost.

Unrelated. Different thread

Stadiums and Derry City in previous comment.

Point still stands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoeSoap on June 02, 2022, 11:41:05 AM
I think people are over-egging the difficulty of getting in and out of Casement... it's a match day, you're gonna have trouble getting to nearly any stadium in the country. The Glider goes over West Belfast already and I would imagine they would put more buses on for matchday. Finaghy or Balmoral train stations aren't a million miles from Casement either.

You hardly drive all the way into Croke Park on matchday and expect it to be plain sailing with parking and traffic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Derry GAA should have sold Celtic Park for housing at the boom time and built another stand at Owenbeg.

A great opportunity lost.

Unrelated. Different thread

Stadiums and Derry City in previous comment.

Point still stands.

Nobody is advocating for anything in Derry as far as i can see. This other lad think we have a great road network and thinks its ok to call people idiots and make wild disparaging remarks about Derry people. Not a great look, but here might have had a few drinks or something last night to kick off the jubilee
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on June 02, 2022, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 12:24:20 AM
27 minutes walk from station at Balmoral? On the way into Clones you park your car at that car park and dander same distance but that's ok...

It'll be quicker walking to Casement than Croke from Connelly seems no probs either...

Pubs around Casement, I can think of ten within short distance
Wolf & Whistle and Biddys are very close. That's really it though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on June 02, 2022, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 12:24:20 AM
27 minutes walk from station at Balmoral? On the way into Clones you park your car at that car park and dander same distance but that's ok...

It'll be quicker walking to Casement than Croke from Connelly seems no probs either...

Pubs around Casement, I can think of ten within short distance
Wolf & Whistle and Biddys are very close. That's really it though.

Our club is ten mins away, you've the PD across the street you've Fruithill sports club, you've the bar at the station in Balmoral you've St. Paul's club about 15 mins walk away you've Casement bar (hopefully that's kept! Doubt it ) the Rock and O'Donnells further on down the road (20min walk)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cornerback on June 02, 2022, 01:51:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on June 02, 2022, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 12:24:20 AM
27 minutes walk from station at Balmoral? On the way into Clones you park your car at that car park and dander same distance but that's ok...

It'll be quicker walking to Casement than Croke from Connelly seems no probs either...

Pubs around Casement, I can think of ten within short distance
Wolf & Whistle and Biddys are very close. That's really it though.

Our club is ten mins away, you've the PD across the street you've Fruithill sports club, you've the bar at the station in Balmoral you've St. Paul's club about 15 mins walk away you've Casement bar (hopefully that's kept! Doubt it ) the Rock and O'Donnells further on down the road (20min walk)

Is the bowling club still there?  Nearly sure I was drinking in there before a Derry game in Casement... or maybe my memory is playing tricks on me.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 02:15:40 PM
There hasnt been an ulster football final in casement in a long time, I cant mind one, maybe 60s/70s?

The tradition, the magic, the history
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on June 02, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 02:15:40 PM
There hasnt been an ulster football final in casement in a long time, I cant mind one, maybe 60s/70s?

The tradition, the magic, the history

"The tradition, the magic, the history" are to be found in Clones!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
Jesus christ more arguments in here than a school playground, over something that is so beneficial, a brand new gaa ground.

As stated all roads do indeed lead to belfast, the glider, the rail network etc.

On bars you have the devenish, hunting lodge, pd, biddys, wolf and whistle, the felons, glenowen, mcenaneys, the rock, beehive, all within a couple of miles at most and easily accesible by bus service running up and down the falls.

I for one cant wait to bring my kids to games in the new casement! One day if lucky enough they may even play there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 02, 2022, 02:27:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on June 02, 2022, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 12:24:20 AM
27 minutes walk from station at Balmoral? On the way into Clones you park your car at that car park and dander same distance but that's ok...

It'll be quicker walking to Casement than Croke from Connelly seems no probs either...

Pubs around Casement, I can think of ten within short distance
Wolf & Whistle and Biddys are very close. That's really it though.

Our club is ten mins away, you've the PD across the street you've Fruithill sports club, you've the bar at the station in Balmoral you've St. Paul's club about 15 mins walk away you've Casement bar (hopefully that's kept! Doubt it ) the Rock and O'Donnells further on down the road (20min walk)
Casement social club is in the plans.

You also left out the Felons, McEnaneys & the Glenowen, all of which would be closer than some you mentioned.

Was going to mention the felons but you need to be a member  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on June 02, 2022, 03:18:56 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
Jesus christ more arguments in here than a school playground, over something that is so beneficial, a brand new gaa ground.

As stated all roads do indeed lead to belfast, the glider, the rail network etc.

On bars you have the devenish, hunting lodge, pd, biddys, wolf and whistle, the felons, glenowen, mcenaneys, the rock, beehive, all within a couple of miles at most and easily accesible by bus service running up and down the falls.

I for one cant wait to bring my kids to games in the new casement! One day if lucky enough they may even play there.

There's a park and ride at the eastern end of the glider route in Dundonald, is there there similar at the western end?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 03:26:31 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
Jesus christ more arguments in here than a school playground, over something that is so beneficial, a brand new gaa ground.

As stated all roads do indeed lead to belfast, the glider, the rail network etc.

On bars you have the devenish, hunting lodge, pd, biddys, wolf and whistle, the felons, glenowen, mcenaneys, the rock, beehive, all within a couple of miles at most and easily accesible by bus service running up and down the falls.

I for one cant wait to bring my kids to games in the new casement! One day if lucky enough they may even play there.

Meet you at the back gates at 3 lol, bring your lunch money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 03:28:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 02, 2022, 03:18:56 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
Jesus christ more arguments in here than a school playground, over something that is so beneficial, a brand new gaa ground.

As stated all roads do indeed lead to belfast, the glider, the rail network etc.

On bars you have the devenish, hunting lodge, pd, biddys, wolf and whistle, the felons, glenowen, mcenaneys, the rock, beehive, all within a couple of miles at most and easily accesible by bus service running up and down the falls.

I for one cant wait to bring my kids to games in the new casement! One day if lucky enough they may even play there.

There's a park and ride at the eastern end of the glider route in Dundonald, is there there similar at the western end?

Near sure there is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2022, 05:17:44 PM
I drink in the bowling club, cause outside of 2, the rest are too far away, who gonna walk 15/20mins to a pub opposite the direction u are travelling. then have to walk the same distance bck to the pitch. Nobody would drink down round Balmoral going to a game in casement Park if they travelling to the game from outside Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 05:35:04 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2022, 05:17:44 PM
I drink in the bowling club, cause outside of 2, the rest are too far away, who gonna walk 15/20mins to a pub opposite the direction u are travelling. then have to walk the same distance bck to the pitch. Nobody would drink down round Balmoral going to a game in casement Park if they travelling to the game from outside Belfast.

You'll drink in it if ya live near by of if you're getting off the train...

But it's not about the drinking, I'd say it's more about the match!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 05:55:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Derry GAA should have sold Celtic Park for housing at the boom time and built another stand at Owenbeg.

A great opportunity lost.

Unrelated. Different thread

Stadiums and Derry City in previous comment.

Point still stands.

Nobody is advocating for anything in Derry as far as i can see. This other lad think we have a great road network and thinks its ok to call people idiots and make wild disparaging remarks about Derry people. Not a great look, but here might have had a few drinks or something last night to kick off the jubilee

I've presented facts to you.

Regarding the road network, I don't think we've a great network, but all main arterial routes into Belfast are dual lane traffic.  A fact. 

The figures quoted about the status of the Belfast to Derry road are also accurate.

Thirdly,  ALL transport links are better in Belfast then in your proposed "Mid-Ulster"  location.  Again - just a fact.

There also is significantly more supporting infrastructure in Belfast than in "Mid-Ulster"

I didn't call you an idiot, but if you feel the cap fits - so be it.

I also stand 100% over the remarks I have made about some Derry people.

You prove the point perfectly here.  Instead of taking the Brits money and supporting something that should be a real shot in the arm for Ulster GAA -  you spend your time whinging and bleating that it's in the wrong place.  Couldn't be more representative of the attitude I was referring to.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 06:15:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 05:55:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 08:53:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 01, 2022, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 01, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 01, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on June 01, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: full moon on June 01, 2022, 02:27:50 PM
Sounds like nother white elephant like Pairce UI Caoimh that will never be filled.

Not to mention it's way out of the way for most of the province and Antrim have small support. Antrim could barely fill Corrigan Park for the Championship game again Cavan.

They're talking about hosting qualifiers there but like in Cork it isn't central enough for that. The biggest problem was that it was closed up in the first place, that was terrible leaving it falling down.

I won't pretend Clones isn't a dump that's really gone downhill but that's more the town than the stadium. It's not great either but for how much it gets used, a couple of big days a year it's surely adequate??

My main concern is the crowds aren't there anymore for this project and it sounds like it may not be used enough to justify it. I would have similar concerns about other big GAA infrastructure projects, such as Pairce UI Caoimhe.

There will be feck all up there by the looks of things outside of Ulster Championship semi finals and finals. If Cavan and Monaghan met in a Ulster Semi final or final that would be some trek to bring them all the way up there.

2 Northern teams in a qualifier would be a possibility but they are not going to be playing all Ireland quarter finals there it's to far out of the way unless again its two northern teams.

The GAA are putting £15 million towards this and that would have been better spent on some maintenance and lights in Clones and upgrades in other county grounds.

I though at least Antrim GAA were going to get good use out of it but that looks like it will be limited aswell.

To be fair, for most ulster teams, Clones is a trek. Derry and Donegal are neighbours but both had to trek down to Clones on Sunday.

That was the final though which is normal to play it in Clones.

I think that may change - Clones' number is up

In terms of travel, it's a total disaster for Derry, Antrim, Down and most of Donegal, so your argument about Cavan and Monaghan is pretty irrelevant

In the 6 counties, all roads lead to Belfast, so there's dual carriageway on all sides for a 30mile radius (roughly)

Some of the main roads into Clones have grass up the middle of them

I'd have been an advocate of having a stadium with a smaller capacity also - but that ship has sailed

The money is a one-time offer and the GAA is assuming less than 20% of the risk in terms of capital

So as trailer says - GET HER BUILT

Are you for real.  You obviously know nothing about the road that joins the 2 largest cities or anything about what unionism done to cut us adrift. Dual carriageway we wish. We aren't comparing clones to casement. we are saying it should be spent in the heartlands of mid Ulster where everyone gets a fair stab at travelling

A point of order.  The post I was replying to WAS comparing Clones to Casement.

And we've had the debate about Mid-Ulster.  It's nonsense to suggest planting a 35k stadium in the middle of an area with little or no infrastructure to support it.  Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you bringing up Derry again?  We all know what Unionism did to Derry.  It's a shambles of a City, and that's how they wanted it.  But the road you refer to will soon be over 70% dualled and to be fair, a lot of the people in the city do fcuk all to help themselves.

Derry GAA should have sold Celtic Park for housing at the boom time and built another stand at Owenbeg.

A great opportunity lost.

Unrelated. Different thread

Stadiums and Derry City in previous comment.

Point still stands.

Nobody is advocating for anything in Derry as far as i can see. This other lad think we have a great road network and thinks its ok to call people idiots and make wild disparaging remarks about Derry people. Not a great look, but here might have had a few drinks or something last night to kick off the jubilee

I've presented facts to you.

Regarding the road network, I don't think we've a great network, but all main arterial routes into Belfast are dual lane traffic.  A fact. 

The figures quoted about the status of the Belfast to Derry road are also accurate.

Thirdly,  ALL transport links are better in Belfast then in your proposed "Mid-Ulster"  location.  Again - just a fact.

There also is significantly more supporting infrastructure in Belfast than in "Mid-Ulster"

I didn't call you an idiot, but if you feel the cap fits - so be it.

I also stand 100% over the remarks I have made about some Derry people.

You prove the point perfectly here.  Instead of taking the Brits money and supporting something that should be a real shot in the arm for Ulster GAA -  you spend your time whinging and bleating that it's in the wrong place.  Couldn't be more representative of the attitude I was referring to.

" Only an idiot would do that".

Take the Brits money any day but in case you missed it they haven't been sending much this way. .

Derry to Belfast shocking road. Being improved yes we don't have " 30 miles of dual carriageway roughly" to Derry. You been down south recently, thats how it's done.

Be good to see a football final in casement but there is ABSOLUTELY NO history or tradition at that location. Strange decision
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 07:00:13 PM
Only an idiot would do that.  If that's you... well...

And yes, there is 30 odd miles of dual carriageway on the main routes into Belfast (M2/M22/A6 - M1/A1 - M1).

When the Dungiven bypass is complete, over 70% of the road between Derry and Belfast will be dual carriageway.

These are facts.  They're not disputable.

What's tradition got to do with it?

Something else to moan about just?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: full moon on June 02, 2022, 07:36:43 PM
Half the province doesn't even have a train station so not sure its relevant. I think there is only one bus a day going to Belfast and back from Cavan, not sure its on everyday either.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
What about those residents who did want it?

This forum reads like the belfast telegraph ffs.
"Gaa men" complaining about a new state of the art stadium, couldnt write it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:36:49 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
What about those residents who did want it?

This forum reads like the belfast telegraph ffs.
"Gaa men" complaining about a new state of the art stadium, couldnt write it.

+1

Mad stuff
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on June 02, 2022, 08:49:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:36:49 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
What about those residents who did want it?

This forum reads like the belfast telegraph ffs.
"Gaa men" complaining about a new state of the art stadium, couldnt write it.

+1

Mad stuff

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on June 02, 2022, 09:19:27 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
What about those residents who did want it?

This forum reads like the belfast telegraph ffs.
"Gaa men" complaining about a new state of the art stadium, couldnt write it.

You mean the residents group Sinn Fein setup ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 02, 2022, 09:19:27 PM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
What about those residents who did want it?

This forum reads like the belfast telegraph ffs.
"Gaa men" complaining about a new state of the art stadium, couldnt write it.

You mean the residents group Sinn Fein setup ?

Lol ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on June 02, 2022, 09:45:13 PM
There might not be an ulster inter-county final in the future  or one that is linked to the all ireland it might be an ulster final in February or march
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 09:48:06 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts

ffs where did i ever mention clones as a better option you absolute clown. Stop muddying the water. I havent a clue what the remark about derry city gaa has to do with anything, childish. Steelstown won AIIF last time I checked we have 2 lads on senior Derry football panel and 3 hurling so not doing too bad thank you

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2022, 09:52:53 PM
Funny enough I was heading into Belfast tonight to ref a game, I noticed there was a good lot heading towards Windsor by train.. now as heading along the Westlink it was busy at turn off at Broadway, they have been doing that for years in a built up (shitty area) housing area, no issues. Stadiums in built up areas with poor parking can work
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 10:27:20 PM
Yip norn iron playing the greeks tonight at windsor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 10:37:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts

+ 1.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 10:55:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 09:48:06 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts

ffs where did i ever mention clones as a better option you absolute clown. Stop muddying the water. I havent a clue what the remark about derry city gaa has to do with anything, childish. Steelstown won AIIF last time I checked we have 2 lads on senior Derry football panel and 3 hurling so not doing too bad thank you

You mentioned you were content to head to Ulster Finals with your "flask of tae".  ::) lol

A clear admission that you were happy to go to clones for ulster finals...

But are having a proper moan about potentially having to go to Belfast... even though you've been shown it's closer

I don't think my remark about the state of the GAA in the city needs any further clarification

There are plenty of great and energetic GAA men in the city

There are also plenty of whingers
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 10:55:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 09:48:06 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts

ffs where did i ever mention clones as a better option you absolute clown. Stop muddying the water. I havent a clue what the remark about derry city gaa has to do with anything, childish. Steelstown won AIIF last time I checked we have 2 lads on senior Derry football panel and 3 hurling so not doing too bad thank you

You mentioned you were content to head to Ulster Finals with your "flask of tae".  ::) lol

A clear admission that you were happy to go to clones for ulster finals...

But are having a proper moan about potentially having to go to Belfast... even though you've been shown it's closer

I don't think my remark about the state of the GAA in the city needs any further clarification

There are plenty of great and energetic GAA men in the city

There are also plenty of whingers

What in actual feck.

Where you from yourself btw. Flask of Tae  =clones.  Clean mad
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2022, 10:37:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts

+ 1.

-1 lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2022, 11:27:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 10:55:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 09:48:06 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 02, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 02, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on June 02, 2022, 07:04:07 PM
You do realise that Derry to Belfast road will be immeasurably improved well ahead of any Casement build, and should take you 30 minutes less to travel despite being a longer distance trip.

Such a silly argument!

Such a silly claim. 30 mins lmfao. Anyhow it's not about derry to Belfast . It's about the fact that the residents didn't want the stadium , it's in an overly congested area of Belfast with very very poor access and is now into millions of overspend when it never had any tradition before in that location and is in no way handy ti "Gaels of Ulster" . It's for the new age fat cat suits in GAA, Mc Cavanagh, Mc Geehan etc and all their buddies.

This is modern day David and Goliath story

Jesus wept.

Any wonder the GAA in Derry City is in the state it's in when this is the attitude to development.  We can't build a new ground on the site of a ground that has stood for 70 odd years because "no tradition"  ;D

As has already been explained to you multiple times, access to Casement is much better for most of the gaels of ulster than access to Clones.  That includes yourself.

You'd be the same clown that would defend that aberration in terms of access (amongst other things) that Derry have built on the Lonemoor road.

This is getting a bit tiresome.  It's difficult to discuss things with someone who thinks that their opinion carries more weight than actual facts

ffs where did i ever mention clones as a better option you absolute clown. Stop muddying the water. I havent a clue what the remark about derry city gaa has to do with anything, childish. Steelstown won AIIF last time I checked we have 2 lads on senior Derry football panel and 3 hurling so not doing too bad thank you

You mentioned you were content to head to Ulster Finals with your "flask of tae".  ::) lol

A clear admission that you were happy to go to clones for ulster finals...

But are having a proper moan about potentially having to go to Belfast... even though you've been shown it's closer

I don't think my remark about the state of the GAA in the city needs any further clarification

There are plenty of great and energetic GAA men in the city

There are also plenty of whingers

What in actual feck.

Where you from yourself btw. Flask of Tae  =clones.  Clean mad

Ulster Final = Clones

Unless you were talking about Ulster hurling finals... which were in....  ;D

Anyway, I think it's time to leave this

Wasted enough time and I think I've made my point
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on June 07, 2022, 08:34:36 AM
Quote from: Upandover on June 02, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
Jesus christ more arguments in here than a school playground, over something that is so beneficial, a brand new gaa ground.

As stated all roads do indeed lead to belfast, the glider, the rail network etc.

On bars you have the devenish, hunting lodge, pd, biddys, wolf and whistle, the felons, glenowen, mcenaneys, the rock, beehive, all within a couple of miles at most and easily accesible by bus service running up and down the falls.

I for one cant wait to bring my kids to games in the new casement! One day if lucky enough they may even play there.

Anyone going to a game doesn't want to be going to a pub for a drink a couple of miles from the pitch.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 08:53:34 AM
Might never be built, looking at the revised costs for it, from a revised £77million to £110million to a eye watering 150million now, who's gona pass that off when the standard of living at a all time high, and money required in so many services.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: God14 on June 07, 2022, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 08:53:34 AM
Might never be built, looking at the revised costs for it, from a revised £77million to £110million to a eye watering 150million now, who's gona pass that off when the standard of living at a all time high, and money required in so many services.

It wont be built unfortunately. The economic case no longer stacks up

On a different note completely was in the Athletic Grounds on Sunday. What a brilliant venue that is. Close tight knit stadium, perfect for atmosphere and noise. Its miles better than Healy Park, Celtic park and the rest of the grounds in the six counties
Antrim need an athletic grounds type stadia. 18K to 20K
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on June 07, 2022, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: God14 on June 07, 2022, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 08:53:34 AM
Might never be built, looking at the revised costs for it, from a revised £77million to £110million to a eye watering 150million now, who's gona pass that off when the standard of living at a all time high, and money required in so many services.

It wont be built unfortunately. The economic case no longer stacks up

On a different note completely was in the Athletic Grounds on Sunday. What a brilliant venue that is. Close tight knit stadium, perfect for atmosphere and noise. Its miles better than Healy Park, Celtic park and the rest of the grounds in the six counties
Antrim need an athletic grounds type stadia. 18K to 20K
yeah it is absolutely fantastic. The buzz in it does be something else. Only problem is watch out for balls being kicked at you if you're behind the nets as there is no catch net.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 07, 2022, 11:01:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 07, 2022, 09:05:16 AM
Quote from: God14 on June 07, 2022, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 08:53:34 AM
Might never be built, looking at the revised costs for it, from a revised £77million to £110million to a eye watering 150million now, who's gona pass that off when the standard of living at a all time high, and money required in so many services.

It wont be built unfortunately. The economic case no longer stacks up

On a different note completely was in the Athletic Grounds on Sunday. What a brilliant venue that is. Close tight knit stadium, perfect for atmosphere and noise. Its miles better than Healy Park, Celtic park and the rest of the grounds in the six counties
Antrim need an athletic grounds type stadia. 18K to 20K
yeah it is absolutely fantastic. The buzz in it does be something else. Only problem is watch out for balls being kicked at you if you're behind the nets as there is no catch net.

Good ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on June 07, 2022, 11:03:29 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 07, 2022, 10:50:59 AM
I'm not sure how accurate the £150 million figure is but a rise from £110m to £150m over the last 3 years probably does sound plausible.
I always thought it was going to be a hard sell for Sinn Féin to get the extra £33 million but at £150 million.....Christ!

Receiving £62.5 million in government funding and going back and asking for an extra £72.5 million..... you'd expect to get laughed out of the place.

I'd say if anything it's underestimating the increases in the last 3 years. There could be issues getting that going at the minute, with additional funding needed, but the northern market is always more competitive then the southern one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 07, 2022, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on June 07, 2022, 11:03:29 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 07, 2022, 10:50:59 AM
I'm not sure how accurate the £150 million figure is but a rise from £110m to £150m over the last 3 years probably does sound plausible.
I always thought it was going to be a hard sell for Sinn Féin to get the extra £33 million but at £150 million.....Christ!

Receiving £62.5 million in government funding and going back and asking for an extra £72.5 million..... you'd expect to get laughed out of the place.

I'd say if anything it's underestimating the increases in the last 3 years. There could be issues getting that going at the minute, with additional funding needed, but the northern market is always more competitive then the southern one.

My house built 2 years ago is now being built(exact same house) at 21% the price, the developer is saying most of this is down to materials. Casement has been an unforgivable shambles
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Antrim Coaster on June 07, 2022, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 07, 2022, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on June 07, 2022, 11:03:29 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 07, 2022, 10:50:59 AM
I'm not sure how accurate the £150 million figure is but a rise from £110m to £150m over the last 3 years probably does sound plausible.
I always thought it was going to be a hard sell for Sinn Féin to get the extra £33 million but at £150 million.....Christ!

Receiving £62.5 million in government funding and going back and asking for an extra £72.5 million..... you'd expect to get laughed out of the place.

I'd say if anything it's underestimating the increases in the last 3 years. There could be issues getting that going at the minute, with additional funding needed, but the northern market is always more competitive then the southern one.

My house built 2 years ago is now being built(exact same house) at 21% the price, the developer is saying most of this is down to materials. Casement has been an unforgivable shambles

Courtesy of the Ulster Council.

The bastards want to hang their heads in shame the way they have mismanaged this project.

If anything, there should have been a new stand built on the site of the existing stand and the terraces revamped with the Owenvarragh terrace covered.

A 34,000 capacity stadium in West Belfast is a stupid notion FFS.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on June 07, 2022, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: God14 on June 07, 2022, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 08:53:34 AM
Might never be built, looking at the revised costs for it, from a revised £77million to £110million to a eye watering 150million now, who's gona pass that off when the standard of living at a all time high, and money required in so many services.

It wont be built unfortunately. The economic case no longer stacks up

On a different note completely was in the Athletic Grounds on Sunday. What a brilliant venue that is. Close tight knit stadium, perfect for atmosphere and noise. Its miles better than Healy Park, Celtic park and the rest of the grounds in the six counties
Antrim need an athletic grounds type stadia. 18K to 20K

Agree, Healy Park especially is soulless.
It's a pity O'Neill Park in Dungannon was never revamped to be able to hold inter county games in the modern era as I can remember it being a fortress for Tyrone at one stage.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 07, 2022, 11:57:26 AM
Was Dunsilly planned before the Casement mess or because of it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on June 07, 2022, 12:06:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 07, 2022, 11:57:26 AM
Was Dunsilly planned before the Casement mess or because of it?

Not comparable projects IMO.

One is Antrims own training facility and would have been needed either way, the other is the Ulster Councils statement build in Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on June 07, 2022, 12:08:23 PM
Yeah they are completely independent things.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 07, 2022, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 07, 2022, 12:06:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 07, 2022, 11:57:26 AM
Was Dunsilly planned before the Casement mess or because of it?

Not comparable projects IMO.

One is Antrims own training facility and would have been needed either way, the other is the Ulster Councils statement build in Belfast

I know they're different and it's Antrim's own.

Just wondering did the fiasco of Casement hasten the Dunsilly project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on June 07, 2022, 12:40:04 PM
Dunsilly was a total mess
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on June 07, 2022, 12:58:20 PM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on June 07, 2022, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 07, 2022, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on June 07, 2022, 11:03:29 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on June 07, 2022, 10:50:59 AM
I'm not sure how accurate the £150 million figure is but a rise from £110m to £150m over the last 3 years probably does sound plausible.
I always thought it was going to be a hard sell for Sinn Féin to get the extra £33 million but at £150 million.....Christ!

Receiving £62.5 million in government funding and going back and asking for an extra £72.5 million..... you'd expect to get laughed out of the place.

I'd say if anything it's underestimating the increases in the last 3 years. There could be issues getting that going at the minute, with additional funding needed, but the northern market is always more competitive then the southern one.

My house built 2 years ago is now being built(exact same house) at 21% the price, the developer is saying most of this is down to materials. Casement has been an unforgivable shambles

Courtesy of the Ulster Council.

The bastards want to hang their heads in shame the way they have mismanaged this project.

If anything, there should have been a new stand built on the site of the existing stand and the terraces revamped with the Owenvarragh terrace covered.

A 34,000 capacity stadium in West Belfast is a stupid notion FFS.

What was the capacity of the old Casement Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on June 07, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
My point being and i know WIKI is not always accurate but the following quote

"Casement Park (Irish: Páirc Mhic Asmaint) is the principal Gaelic games stadium in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and serves as the home ground of the Antrim football and hurling teams. It is located in Andersonstown Road in the west of the city, and named after the republican revolutionary Sir Roger Casement (1864-1916). As of 2015 it had an official capacity of 32,282, with safety certification for 31,661, including 6,962 seated.[1] As of 2021, the stadium was closed and in a state of dereliction, with redevelopment plans pending for several years.[2] In July 2021, formal planning permission for the redevelopment of Casement Park was confirmed.[3]"

Is stating the capacity is more like for like except you can sit in stead of standing...?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2022, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
My point being and i know WIKI is not always accurate but the following quote

"Casement Park (Irish: Páirc Mhic Asmaint) is the principal Gaelic games stadium in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and serves as the home ground of the Antrim football and hurling teams. It is located in Andersonstown Road in the west of the city, and named after the republican revolutionary Sir Roger Casement (1864-1916). As of 2015 it had an official capacity of 32,282, with safety certification for 31,661, including 6,962 seated.[1] As of 2021, the stadium was closed and in a state of dereliction, with redevelopment plans pending for several years.[2] In July 2021, formal planning permission for the redevelopment of Casement Park was confirmed.[3]"

Is stating the capacity is more like for like except you can sit in stead of standing...?

I can remember a McKenna cup final with Armagh and Tyrone and it was nearly at full capacity, not sure of the figures that winters day but well over 25,000 at it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on June 07, 2022, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 07, 2022, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: God14 on June 07, 2022, 09:02:16 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 08:53:34 AM
Might never be built, looking at the revised costs for it, from a revised £77million to £110million to a eye watering 150million now, who's gona pass that off when the standard of living at a all time high, and money required in so many services.

It wont be built unfortunately. The economic case no longer stacks up

On a different note completely was in the Athletic Grounds on Sunday. What a brilliant venue that is. Close tight knit stadium, perfect for atmosphere and noise. Its miles better than Healy Park, Celtic park and the rest of the grounds in the six counties
Antrim need an athletic grounds type stadia. 18K to 20K

Agree, Healy Park especially is soulless.
It's a pity O'Neill Park in Dungannon was never revamped to be able to hold inter county games in the modern era as I can remember it being a fortress for Tyrone at one stage.

I agree on the Athletic grounds. Brilliant place to watch a game, great atmosphere and not too bad to get to/from either.
As for O'Neill Park in Dungannon, redevelopment has started. Pitch has been dug up and the club house due to be knocked down soon I believe.

https://www.thomasclarkegfc.com/our-vision
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 07, 2022, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2022, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
My point being and i know WIKI is not always accurate but the following quote

"Casement Park (Irish: Páirc Mhic Asmaint) is the principal Gaelic games stadium in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and serves as the home ground of the Antrim football and hurling teams. It is located in Andersonstown Road in the west of the city, and named after the republican revolutionary Sir Roger Casement (1864-1916). As of 2015 it had an official capacity of 32,282, with safety certification for 31,661, including 6,962 seated.[1] As of 2021, the stadium was closed and in a state of dereliction, with redevelopment plans pending for several years.[2] In July 2021, formal planning permission for the redevelopment of Casement Park was confirmed.[3]"

Is stating the capacity is more like for like except you can sit in stead of standing...?

I can remember a McKenna cup final with Armagh and Tyrone and it was nearly at full capacity, not sure of the figures that winters day but well over 25,000 at it

No, there were only about 18000 at that one, which is still a record for the McKenna cup. Armagh v Derry in the chmpionship had 27,000, which suggests there might be a walk up aduience in Belfast. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 07, 2022, 10:08:07 PM
Quote from: Antrim Coaster on June 07, 2022, 11:45:11 AM
Courtesy of the Ulster Council.

The bastards want to hang their heads in shame the way they have mismanaged this project.

If anything, there should have been a new stand built on the site of the existing stand and the terraces revamped with the Owenvarragh terrace covered.

A 34,000 capacity stadium in West Belfast is a stupid notion FFS.

100% agree.

New (seated) stand.
Roof over the side line terrace.
Leave the 2 ends as uncovered terrace.

Does everything we need it to for watching hurling or football, and you could probably get it done for £50m (realistic costing based on this (https://footballgroundguide.com/about-the-author/developments.html))

The UC can go f**k themselves when it comes to chasing the £ for concerts.

The govt should straight out refuse to fund the difference since the UC have made such a complete and utter balls of it.

If the original budget was £70m, of which the GAA were paying £15m and its now likely to be £150m all up, so the GAA are on the hook for a total of £95m - that's a lot of f**king concerts.



Back of beer mat calcs:
Each concert has 30,000 attendees
Say the GAA get a tenner a head (probably quite optimistic - Wembly is supposedly around 500k to rent for a concert and its far bigger and in London)

If you've a max of 3 concerts a year - that is 105 years to pay up the £95m (89 years to pay off the additional over the original budget of £15m).


Furthermore, their own (https://minutes.belfastcity.gov.uk/documents/s92471/APPENDIX%202d%20S76%20Annex%203%20Event%20Management%20Plan.pdf) development plan indicates attendance > 20k is expected only once per year - and thats if they move the Ulster final away from Clones.

So, the final has an average gate price of.... £30? Add that to the 3 concerts and thats still 50 and 42 years respectively.


The Ulster Council need a good f**king kicking for their continued, ongoing gross stupidity.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2022, 10:20:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 07, 2022, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2022, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
My point being and i know WIKI is not always accurate but the following quote

"Casement Park (Irish: Páirc Mhic Asmaint) is the principal Gaelic games stadium in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and serves as the home ground of the Antrim football and hurling teams. It is located in Andersonstown Road in the west of the city, and named after the republican revolutionary Sir Roger Casement (1864-1916). As of 2015 it had an official capacity of 32,282, with safety certification for 31,661, including 6,962 seated.[1] As of 2021, the stadium was closed and in a state of dereliction, with redevelopment plans pending for several years.[2] In July 2021, formal planning permission for the redevelopment of Casement Park was confirmed.[3]"

Is stating the capacity is more like for like except you can sit in stead of standing...?

I can remember a McKenna cup final with Armagh and Tyrone and it was nearly at full capacity, not sure of the figures that winters day but well over 25,000 at it

No, there were only about 18000 at that one, which is still a record for the McKenna cup. Armagh v Derry in the chmpionship had 27,000, which suggests there might be a walk up aduience in Belfast.

Right..was never good with numbers but was pretty bunged and certainly the official numbers in those days was slightly different to real ;D 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 11:26:11 PM
Am all for a good stadium but anybody in their right mind in a position with budgets or funding will never sign this off. I wouldn't sign it and I want a good stadium here. I don't think it ever be built. The maze you could built added in the extra roads and still come out of it £50million better that the current f**k up. All that unionist paranoid on one hand with the maze and the obstruction of local residents delaying casement Park on a issue they never win, plus ulster council not looking at a 25-30k stadium. With efficiency this good they should seek a Job with the NHS.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 11:32:48 PM
 30yrs ago, 1992,(showing my age) I remember been at casement Park, Derry v Down semi, with 35k at it, was down right dangerous that day, never so glad to be over in the uncovered seated area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2022, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 11:32:48 PM
30yrs ago, 1992,(showing my age) I remember been at casement Park, Derry v Down semi, with 35k at it, was down right dangerous that day, never so glad to be over in the uncovered seated area.

Was on the grass bank behind the far goals away from the Andytown road that day and as you say was dangerous enough.

Luckily it was baking hot so the grass banks were dry and not ski slopes.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 08, 2022, 01:48:45 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 08, 2022, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 11:32:48 PM
30yrs ago, 1992,(showing my age) I remember been at casement Park, Derry v Down semi, with 35k at it, was down right dangerous that day, never so glad to be over in the uncovered seated area.

Was on the grass bank behind the far goals away from the Andytown road that day and as you say was dangerous enough.

Luckily it was baking hot so the grass banks were dry and not ski slopes.

Good to get the Health & Safety regulations in place nowadays.

Clones hill was a dangerouse spot also.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on June 08, 2022, 01:53:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 08, 2022, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 11:32:48 PM
30yrs ago, 1992,(showing my age) I remember been at casement Park, Derry v Down semi, with 35k at it, was down right dangerous that day, never so glad to be over in the uncovered seated area.

Was on the grass bank behind the far goals away from the Andytown road that day and as you say was dangerous enough.

Luckily it was baking hot so the grass banks were dry and not ski slopes.

Hopefully Corrigan is dry on Saturday on the grass side  :-\
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on June 08, 2022, 01:57:31 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 08, 2022, 01:53:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 08, 2022, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 07, 2022, 11:32:48 PM
30yrs ago, 1992,(showing my age) I remember been at casement Park, Derry v Down semi, with 35k at it, was down right dangerous that day, never so glad to be over in the uncovered seated area.

Was on the grass bank behind the far goals away from the Andytown road that day and as you say was dangerous enough.

Luckily it was baking hot so the grass banks were dry and not ski slopes.

Hopefully Corrigan is dry on Saturday on the grass side  :-\

Is that the east or west 'terrace'?  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 15, 2022, 11:24:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

This must be the 37th tournament Ireland have tried to bid for or been involved in a joint bid. They got 1 if you count the Euro 2020 and then couldn't hold it. At this point you'd wonder if they have the brains to put a successful bid together.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 11:41:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

WTF are you on about? Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Semple and the likes aren't even in consideration, let alone an unbuilt Casement which isn't even mentioned.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 12:54:52 PM
The "IFA" will have to have a Stadium in their territory so you can be sure there would be a big rush to build Casement and you can be sure we'd be expected to make a large contribution.....

Probably won't get it like 2008, Rugby "world" Cup etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 12:54:52 PM
The "IFA" will have to have a Stadium in their territory so you can be sure there would be a big rush to build Casement and you can be sure we'd be expected to make a large contribution.....

Probably won't get it like 2008, Rugby "world" Cup etc.

If the IFA need a stadium then they're either going to go with Windsor with all it's limitations OR lobby the NI Assembly to make Casement available and if anything would strengthen the Ulster Councils hand in getting the NI Assembly to find the additional funds.
If you mean the GAA when you say "we" then what would be the issue there?

Not sure what that's got to do with the 26 counties tax payers even now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 02:08:49 PM
Because we'll be told Stormont has no more money than was originally earmarked blah blah, tournament can't go ahead unless suitable stadium in 6 Cos, so 26 Co Taxpayers funding needed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: charlieTully on November 15, 2022, 02:11:21 PM
Are we not a 32 county association?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 15, 2022, 02:11:21 PM
Are we not a 32 county association?

In Rossies wee brain it seems he can't differentiate between the GAA based in Croke Park and the Irish Gov which also happens to be based in Dublin.

TBH I'd be looking the FAI and Horse Racing Ireland to be stumping up for Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ClubScene13 on November 15, 2022, 02:22:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 02:08:49 PM
Because we'll be told Stormont has no more money than was originally earmarked blah blah, tournament can't go ahead unless suitable stadium in 6 Cos, so 26 Co Taxpayers funding needed.


Hopefully, if it sickens boys like you then hopefully
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on November 15, 2022, 03:04:28 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on November 15, 2022, 02:22:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 02:08:49 PM
Because we'll be told Stormont has no more money than was originally earmarked blah blah, tournament can't go ahead unless suitable stadium in 6 Cos, so 26 Co Taxpayers funding needed.
32 county org but Stormount should foot the bill for a belfast stadium just as they did for soccer and Rugby .
even in the South the Government have written a blank cheque for Soccer and are building Grounds for LOI clubs with no input from FAI . eg. Shamrock rovers Shelbourne and Bohemian fc. Finn harp looking for one too for their 200 supporters.


Hopefully, if it sickens boys like you then hopefully
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:09:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on November 15, 2022, 02:11:21 PM
Are we not a 32 county association?

In Rossies wee brain it seems he can't differentiate between the GAA based in Croke Park and the Irish Gov which also happens to be based in Dublin.

TBH I'd be looking the FAI and Horse Racing Ireland to be stumping up for Casement.
You'll be left looking so!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 03:14:39 PM
No body learn from that stadium in Cork empty 90% of the time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 15, 2022, 03:30:16 PM
Time to throw this one out again! Coulda, woulda, shoulda!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Time to tell them to fck right off for themselves!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 15, 2022, 03:30:16 PM
Time to throw this one out again! Coulda, woulda, shoulda!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium

A bit small for the old hurling all the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Time to tell them to fck right off for themselves!!

Croker have wanted to seat the Hill for decades. This will be how they force it through.

Soccer lads already on Twitter as the penny has dropped. The only infrastructure that will be added around a soccer tournament will be to Croke Oark and most GAA fans don't want it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Time to tell them to fck right off for themselves!!

Croker have wanted to seat the Hill for decades. This will be how they force it through.

Soccer lads already on Twitter as the penny has dropped. The only infrastructure that will be added around a soccer tournament will be to Croke Oark and most GAA fans don't want it.

I thought there were standing terraces to be trialled in the Premiership, no?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:14:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Time to tell them to fck right off for themselves!!

Croker have wanted to seat the Hill for decades. This will be how they force it through.

Soccer lads already on Twitter as the penny has dropped. The only infrastructure that will be added around a soccer tournament will be to Croke Oark and most GAA fans don't want it.

I thought there were standing terraces to be trialled in the Premiership, no?

This isn't the premiership
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:14:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Time to tell them to fck right off for themselves!!

Croker have wanted to seat the Hill for decades. This will be how they force it through.

Soccer lads already on Twitter as the penny has dropped. The only infrastructure that will be added around a soccer tournament will be to Croke Oark and most GAA fans don't want it.

I thought there were standing terraces to be trialled in the Premiership, no?

This isn't the premiership

Well I'd be surprised that the Premiership were trialling anything like that without tacit approval from UEFA and FIFA or is that UK Gov requirements post Hillsborough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:14:30 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 11:07:58 AM
I suppose the 26 Cos taxpayers will have to pay to build Casement if this thing is successful ?
What upgrades will Croker need?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41006657.html

Permanent seating on tbe Hill and a fanzone area at the Cusack apparently
Time to tell them to fck right off for themselves!!

Croker have wanted to seat the Hill for decades. This will be how they force it through.

Soccer lads already on Twitter as the penny has dropped. The only infrastructure that will be added around a soccer tournament will be to Croke Oark and most GAA fans don't want it.

I thought there were standing terraces to be trialled in the Premiership, no?

This isn't the premiership

Well I'd be surprised that the Premiership were trialling anything like that without tacit approval from UEFA and FIFA or is that UK Gov requirements post Hillsborough.
Germany has had safe terracing for years. I'm sure it has approval of sorts but those areas are seated for European games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 15, 2022, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 15, 2022, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 15, 2022, 03:30:16 PM
Time to throw this one out again! Coulda, woulda, shoulda!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium

A bit small for the old hurling all the same.

A squash version of hurling, awesome  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 05:22:21 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41007341.html

What work have the GAA planned for the Cusack?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 15, 2022, 06:14:37 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 15, 2022, 03:14:39 PM
No body learn from that stadium in Cork empty 90% of the time.

All stadiums I'm sure are empty 90% of the time. Quite possibly 95% or 99% of the time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 15, 2022, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 05:22:21 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41007341.html

What work have the GAA planned for the Cusack?

McKenna is right. It is early days. I have heard about umpteen bids over the years, none have been successful. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 15, 2022, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2022, 05:22:21 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41007341.html

What work have the GAA planned for the Cusack?

A walkway promenade thing
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2022, 12:45:54 PM
So casement park is the only NI venue in the 2028 bid
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2022, 12:47:49 PM
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/casement-park-included-in-uk-and-irelands-joint-bid-for-euro-2028-42149150.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2022, 01:02:44 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2022, 12:45:54 PM
So casement park is the only NI venue in the 2028 bid
Nowhere else big enough, seems you need at least 33,000 seats.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2022, 01:15:33 PM
Turkey the only other competitor per RTE
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2022, 01:02:44 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2022, 12:45:54 PM
So casement park is the only NI venue in the 2028 bid
Nowhere else big enough, seems you need at least 33,000 seats.

Casement would be the least stadium on the list by a large margin, although if it ever gets built and is brand new it might be decent enough. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 16, 2022, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2022, 01:02:44 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2022, 12:45:54 PM
So casement park is the only NI venue in the 2028 bid
Nowhere else big enough, seems you need at least 33,000 seats.

Casement would be the least stadium on the list by a large margin, although if it ever gets built and is brand new it might be decent enough.

At least Everton have started theirs..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2022, 03:01:38 PM
The 4 countries plus the occupied territories can't all get automatic qualification if the bid succeeds. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2022, 03:10:00 PM
There was talks of expanding euros to 32 but that seems to be now cancelled and they stay with 24
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on November 16, 2022, 03:27:07 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2022, 03:10:00 PM
There was talks of expanding euros to 32 but that seems to be now cancelled and they stay with 24

I would say it's just a  matter of time until it's 32  teams .

And I'm not sure  if it's happening in 2026 , but I think they are planning a 48 team  World Cup.

Madness
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nanderson on November 16, 2022, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2022, 12:45:54 PM
So casement park is the only NI venue in the 2028 bid
Jamie Bryson not happy that Linfields home stadium not selected.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on November 16, 2022, 03:46:10 PM
Getting cut to 10 so Casement Park likely to miss out. UEFA likely to only offer two automatic places, so expect England and Ireland to get those.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 16, 2022, 06:53:18 PM
A new low fir Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2022, 08:04:09 PM
I think a starting point would be having a actual stadium in place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2022, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2022, 08:04:09 PM
I think a starting point would be having a actual stadium in place.

Perhaps there are some in Qatar that will not be needed, you could just dissemble it and ship it over.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game
Absolutely. Those protestants be up to no good as usual
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different

Predicting something before it actually happens... I suppose the Ulster fans wreck the Aviva stadium too
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different

Predicting something before it actually happens... I suppose the Ulster fans wreck the Aviva stadium too
Theres Norn Iron fans giving out on social media that they'll never go to a game again if the Euros is played in Casement instead of Windsor. Hilarious.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 10:01:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different

Predicting something before it actually happens... I suppose the Ulster fans wreck the Aviva stadium too
Theres Norn Iron fans giving out on social media that they'll never go to a game again if the Euros is played in Casement instead of Windsor. Hilarious.

That's ok, so no issues with people 'wrecking' the place
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 17, 2022, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 10:01:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different

Predicting something before it actually happens... I suppose the Ulster fans wreck the Aviva stadium too
Theres Norn Iron fans giving out on social media that they'll never go to a game again if the Euros is played in Casement instead of Windsor. Hilarious.

That's ok, so no issues with people 'wrecking' the place

Would be strange to hear GSTK bellowing out from Casement, onto the Anderstown Road,  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 10:15:02 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 17, 2022, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 10:01:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different

Predicting something before it actually happens... I suppose the Ulster fans wreck the Aviva stadium too
Theres Norn Iron fans giving out on social media that they'll never go to a game again if the Euros is played in Casement instead of Windsor. Hilarious.

That's ok, so no issues with people 'wrecking' the place

Would be strange to hear GSTK bellowing out from Casement, onto the Anderstown Road,  ;D

No more strange than coming out of Croke I'd imagine, which went off peacefully enough at the time
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 10:24:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 10:01:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 17, 2022, 09:37:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2022, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 16, 2022, 03:29:29 PM
Casement better off not getting selected.

The GAWA would have the place wrecked not to mention the street battles before and after the game

Never any street battles when Cliftonville go to Linfield (lately)

The difference in volume of fans involved would be significantly different

Predicting something before it actually happens... I suppose the Ulster fans wreck the Aviva stadium too
Theres Norn Iron fans giving out on social media that they'll never go to a game again if the Euros is played in Casement instead of Windsor. Hilarious.

That's ok, so no issues with people 'wrecking' the place
Who knows lol, can't imagine the billy boys behaving too well in a GAA ground and will be heavily policed. Would the North even get an automatic qualifying place? Surely UEFA wouldn't allow 5?

Anyway, we're talking hypothetically about a tournament that may not even happen here in a stadium that hasn't been built and lord knows when it will be.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 17, 2022, 11:07:29 AM
5 automatic qualifying places might be a stretch for UEFA.
Deleting Casement from the plan would make it 4.
You could also delete Wales as they are providing only one stadium, but it is at least a substantial stadium and it is actually built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 17, 2022, 11:52:17 AM
More chance of me playing for Norn Iron than there being a game in Casement park. In fact there is more chance of me playing than it being built at this stage with the incompetence of Ulster GAA and Stormont to the fore.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jimmy on November 19, 2022, 12:17:06 PM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/11/19/news/casement_park_benefits_will_far_exceed_the_cost_reckons_ulster_gaa_s_stephen_mcgeehan-2910143/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on November 19, 2022, 12:32:49 PM
All very positive.....bring it on. I expect it will be available as well for Antrim County matches and club finals etc as was the norm at the old Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2022, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on November 19, 2022, 12:17:06 PM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/11/19/news/casement_park_benefits_will_far_exceed_the_cost_reckons_ulster_gaa_s_stephen_mcgeehan-2910143/

Complete career man
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on November 19, 2022, 07:49:01 PM
you are 100% correct on this one Fear.  A bluffer of the highest order. Actually embarrassing now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 19, 2022, 08:12:48 PM
Money not there, all bodies running on emer budgets, I see urgent work at schools all been put on the bck burner as no money. As much as I like to see a stadium built, it should been at the maze 10+yrs ago. Cost of a stadium will have went up 30% from last Yr alone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2022, 12:59:34 AM
The whole thing from start to finish has been as far away from GAA traditional values as anything I gave ever seen 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on November 20, 2022, 10:06:57 AM
Yip, the arrogance from the start and the shoddy treatment of the residents set the tone and it was downhill from there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2022, 10:35:05 AM
Quote from: bannside on November 19, 2022, 12:32:49 PM
All very positive.....bring it on. I expect it will be available as well for Antrim County matches and club finals etc as was the norm at the old Casement.
All dependent on what concerts are planned. Ulster GAA out of their depth.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on November 20, 2022, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2022, 10:35:05 AM
Quote from: bannside on November 19, 2022, 12:32:49 PM
All very positive.....bring it on. I expect it will be available as well for Antrim County matches and club finals etc as was the norm at the old Casement.
All dependent on what concerts are planned. Ulster GAA out of their depth.
It's a scandal at this stage. Years upon years where a whole generation of young Antrim gaels had no stadium, and it's a white elephant into the bargain.  The people in power in the GAA and politics got ahead of themselves, and Antrim GAA made a historically stupid decision.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 20, 2022, 12:47:01 PM
Ye could at least have kept using it until planning permission secured.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 20, 2022, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on November 19, 2022, 07:49:01 PM
you are 100% correct on this one Fear.  A bluffer of the highest order. Actually embarrassing now.

The lad before him was every bit as bad
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on November 20, 2022, 04:37:01 PM
Absolutely, the two of them were so busy jockeying to replace Danny Murphy they forget completely about the job in hand. Epic incompetence.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 20, 2022, 07:37:20 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on November 19, 2022, 12:17:06 PM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/11/19/news/casement_park_benefits_will_far_exceed_the_cost_reckons_ulster_gaa_s_stephen_mcgeehan-2910143/

Pretty much the exact same guff about economic benefits was said about Pairc Ui Chaoimh at the planning stage.

Any decent journalist would have asked McGeehan what's different between the Casement project and the Pairc Ui Chaoimh project and what lessons (if any) the Casement project learned from the Pairc Ui Chaoimh experience?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 20, 2022, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on November 19, 2022, 07:49:01 PM
you are 100% correct on this one Fear.  A bluffer of the highest order. Actually embarrassing now.

Unfortunately I would fully agree with this.  The previous guy was the same.

They need realism here not bluffing. This will never get built with this level of bluffing. Is it really any further on than say half a dozen years ago?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Spike on December 02, 2022, 09:53:19 AM
Previous statements by Ulster GAA always sounded so categorical, not only about the money but also about Antrim's use of the venue.   Everything coming across as slightly woolly now .

To start to demolition process to leave the venue as unusable prior to granting of planning permission was the utmost insanity.   A bit of honesty needs to be given here.  If the GAA can't/won't make up the difference in funding then take whatever ringfenced money was earmarked for the scheme, build a new grandstand, repair the terraces, new pitch and move on.

Sitting here in limbo listening to waffle just deprives another generation of playing there and encourages attacks from those trying to get thefunds stopped from being sent to west belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on December 02, 2022, 10:34:54 AM
Quote from: Silver hill on November 19, 2022, 07:49:01 PM
you are 100% correct on this one Fear.  A bluffer of the highest order. Actually embarrassing now.

yup.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 02, 2022, 11:24:35 AM
I see they expect work to commence next year with games being played in 2025.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:44:53 AM
Lads no way this will happen, do we not learn from the mess down in Cork. Original Estimate £77.5, last Year £110, Currently at Market value £136 million, this time next year it be £150+, so I doubt the GAA have to at least double their £15million at least before it even be looked at, and we haven't got that. f**k it, am happy enough lying in traffic in clones for 3/4hrs instead paying ridiculous ticket money for games to make up the huge whole it bring to gaa coffers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on December 03, 2022, 11:26:01 AM
The longer this drags out I'm beginning to think put up a new stand in casement. The other 3 ends new terrace. Spend the rest of the govt money on the 5 other county grounds. But clones would need some upgrade also. Casement will happen and the euros will speed it up if they get it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2022, 11:44:17 AM
Isn't Stormont money Casement or nowhere?
Put in pitch and one Stand.
If Soccer tourney goes ahead there will be  money provided for the grand Stadium.
If it doesn't use whatever money is left to do terracing etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.

Clones is a f**king shithole. In the toilets the piss is running around your feet. It needs completely refurbished. There isn't even coverage from the elements on 3/4 of the stands.

We need a 40k seater, state of the art stadium to play GAA games in. I do not care if it costs £300m. We need it and the government has to pay for it. The money will only be spunked on something else. Why do we care about the cost? Look at the amount of money wasted on the A5, Covid PPE contracts etc.
The project has been steeped in incompetence. Time someone took it by the scruff of the neck and got on and got it built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on December 05, 2022, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.

Clones is a f**king shithole. In the toilets the piss is running around your feet. It needs completely refurbished. There isn't even coverage from the elements on 3/4 of the stands.

We need a 40k seater, state of the art stadium to play GAA games in. I do not care if it costs £300m. We need it and the government has to pay for it. The money will only be spunked on something else. Why do we care about the cost? Look at the amount of money wasted on the A5, Covid PPE contracts etc.
The project has been steeped in incompetence. Time someone took it by the scruff of the neck and got on and got it built.

Make it 100k
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2022, 11:19:26 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 05, 2022, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.

Clones is a f**king shithole. In the toilets the piss is running around your feet. It needs completely refurbished. There isn't even coverage from the elements on 3/4 of the stands.

We need a 40k seater, state of the art stadium to play GAA games in. I do not care if it costs £300m. We need it and the government has to pay for it. The money will only be spunked on something else. Why do we care about the cost? Look at the amount of money wasted on the A5, Covid PPE contracts etc.
The project has been steeped in incompetence. Time someone took it by the scruff of the neck and got on and got it built.

Make it 100k

Now you're getting carried away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2022, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 05, 2022, 11:51:33 AM
Are you expecting them to go back to the drawing board and design a stadium with 40,000 seats? Their current plan only has 26,000 seats I think.

It's 34,500
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 05, 2022, 12:03:30 PM
8,500 standing.
Not get away with that for the soccer if that goes ahead
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on December 05, 2022, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.

Clones is a f**king shithole. In the toilets the piss is running around your feet. It needs completely refurbished. There isn't even coverage from the elements on 3/4 of the stands.

We need a 40k seater, state of the art stadium to play GAA games in. I do not care if it costs £300m. We need it and the government has to pay for it. The money will only be spunked on something else. Why do we care about the cost? Look at the amount of money wasted on the A5, Covid PPE contracts etc.
The project has been steeped in incompetence. Time someone took it by the scruff of the neck and got on and got it built.

Build the Luas to Dingle and the Bojo Bridge to Scotland while they are at it

Clearly a post not grounded in reality, financial or otherwise
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 12:27:22 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2022, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on December 05, 2022, 12:03:30 PM
8,500 standing.
Not get away with that for the soccer if that goes ahead
Easy to convert modern terrace to seating if needs be, would just get casement over  30000 seats
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2022, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on December 05, 2022, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.

Clones is a f**king shithole. In the toilets the piss is running around your feet. It needs completely refurbished. There isn't even coverage from the elements on 3/4 of the stands.

We need a 40k seater, state of the art stadium to play GAA games in. I do not care if it costs £300m. We need it and the government has to pay for it. The money will only be spunked on something else. Why do we care about the cost? Look at the amount of money wasted on the A5, Covid PPE contracts etc.
The project has been steeped in incompetence. Time someone took it by the scruff of the neck and got on and got it built.

Build the Luas to Dingle and the Bojo Bridge to Scotland while they are at it

Clearly a post not grounded in reality, financial or otherwise

Sure do nothing. Build nothing. Maintain nothing. Hand over a hape of shite to future generations. In fact disband the entire association.
As long as the piss is swilling around our feet and we're sitting on concrete steps you'll be happy. Wise up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on December 05, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
20k is enough for Casement

I honestly think a few years ago they  should Have Built an Ulster gaa centre in somewhere like Armagh/Ballygawley/Dungannon ( like the one Connacht has) where lots of counties could  avail of its facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on December 05, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 01:41:32 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on December 05, 2022, 12:27:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2022, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 03, 2022, 12:47:30 AM
Should went for something smaller, say 21-25k like Armagh set up. Would done Antrim the best plus a Ulster 1st rd and semi. With the finals remaining in clones.

Clones is a f**king shithole. In the toilets the piss is running around your feet. It needs completely refurbished. There isn't even coverage from the elements on 3/4 of the stands.

We need a 40k seater, state of the art stadium to play GAA games in. I do not care if it costs £300m. We need it and the government has to pay for it. The money will only be spunked on something else. Why do we care about the cost? Look at the amount of money wasted on the A5, Covid PPE contracts etc.
The project has been steeped in incompetence. Time someone took it by the scruff of the neck and got on and got it built.

Build the Luas to Dingle and the Bojo Bridge to Scotland while they are at it

Clearly a post not grounded in reality, financial or otherwise

Sure do nothing. Build nothing. Maintain nothing. Hand over a hape of shite to future generations. In fact disband the entire association.
As long as the piss is swilling around our feet and we're sitting on concrete steps you'll be happy. Wise up.

no more needed to be said
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 05, 2022, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
20k is enough for Casement

I honestly think a few years ago they  should Have Built an Ulster gaa centre in somewhere like Armagh/Ballygawley/Dungannon ( like the one Connacht has) where lots of counties could  avail of its facilities.

Totally agree. I was in Belfast sat, what a nightmare, and then up the falls , no way . The GAA and its strength lie outsude Belfast-take it to the people and make it accessible to the whole of ULSTER.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 05, 2022, 02:31:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 05, 2022, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
20k is enough for Casement

I honestly think a few years ago they  should Have Built an Ulster gaa centre in somewhere like Armagh/Ballygawley/Dungannon ( like the one Connacht has) where lots of counties could  avail of its facilities.

Totally agree. I was in Belfast sat, what a nightmare, and then up the falls , no way . The GAA and its strength lie outsude Belfast-take it to the people and make it accessible to the whole of ULSTER.

What we should do is build a 10k stadium but have like a hunger game scenario for the tickets. People have to go around killing their rivals. Last man standing.
Once we get this idea on the congress agenda I can flesh out the details a little more.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2022, 06:49:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 05, 2022, 01:45:17 PM
20k is enough for Casement

I honestly think a few years ago they  should Have Built an Ulster gaa centre in somewhere like Armagh/Ballygawley/Dungannon ( like the one Connacht has)

NOOOOOO!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Olly on December 05, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
I honestly don't think boys like Elton John will come to Casement if it's only 25000. Say his tickets are 100 pounds, that's 2500000, which is 2.5m in modern maths. By the time he pays for the lorries bringing his stuff, the dancers from all over the world, the instruments and musicians, and then his extravagant dining habits and outfits, he'll only have maybe 100000 left. Casement needs about 40000 to make it viable for the like of John, Parton or Meatloaf.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 05, 2022, 10:25:57 PM
Forgot bout the Provie bouncers Ollie. He be playin at a loss at this stage
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Silver hill on December 05, 2022, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 05, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
I honestly don't think boys like Elton John will come to Casement if it's only 25000. Say his tickets are 100 pounds, that's 2500000, which is 2.5m in modern maths. By the time he pays for the lorries bringing his stuff, the dancers from all over the world, the instruments and musicians, and then his extravagant dining habits and outfits, he'll only have maybe 100000 left. Casement needs about 40000 to make it viable for the like of John, Parton or Meatloaf.

Meat loaf definitely won't be.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 05, 2022, 10:38:31 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on December 05, 2022, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 05, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
I honestly don't think boys like Elton John will come to Casement if it's only 25000. Say his tickets are 100 pounds, that's 2500000, which is 2.5m in modern maths. By the time he pays for the lorries bringing his stuff, the dancers from all over the world, the instruments and musicians, and then his extravagant dining habits and outfits, he'll only have maybe 100000 left. Casement needs about 40000 to make it viable for the like of John, Parton or Meatloaf.

Meat loaf definitely won't be.
That would be impressive
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2022, 02:17:19 AM
The idea of concerts ba fing out in a heavily congested area will be popular with the locals. Iron Maiden and Foo fighters go down a bang
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2022, 08:52:52 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2022, 02:17:19 AM
The idea of concerts ba fing out in a heavily congested area will be popular with the locals. Iron Maiden and Foo fighters go down a bang

Local hospitality and eateries will be more than happy for the business
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on December 06, 2022, 09:59:33 AM
Quote from: Silver hill on December 05, 2022, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 05, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
I honestly don't think boys like Elton John will come to Casement if it's only 25000. Say his tickets are 100 pounds, that's 2500000, which is 2.5m in modern maths. By the time he pays for the lorries bringing his stuff, the dancers from all over the world, the instruments and musicians, and then his extravagant dining habits and outfits, he'll only have maybe 100000 left. Casement needs about 40000 to make it viable for the like of John, Parton or Meatloaf.

Meat loaf definitely won't be.

Two out  of three ain't bad though

I'll get me coat
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 06, 2022, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 06, 2022, 09:59:33 AM
Quote from: Silver hill on December 05, 2022, 10:35:50 PM
Meat loaf definitely won't be.

Two out  of three ain't bad though

You took the words right out of my mouth.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on December 06, 2022, 01:06:47 PM
That's a conversation stopper right there....for crying out loud!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on December 06, 2022, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: Silver hill on December 05, 2022, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 05, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
I honestly don't think boys like Elton John will come to Casement if it's only 25000. Say his tickets are 100 pounds, that's 2500000, which is 2.5m in modern maths. By the time he pays for the lorries bringing his stuff, the dancers from all over the world, the instruments and musicians, and then his extravagant dining habits and outfits, he'll only have maybe 100000 left. Casement needs about 40000 to make it viable for the like of John, Parton or Meatloaf.

Meat loaf definitely won't be.

Neither will Elton John

He's not dead just done with touring

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on December 06, 2022, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 05, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
I honestly don't think boys like Elton John will come to Casement if it's only 25000. Say his tickets are 100 pounds, that's 2500000, which is 2.5m in modern maths. By the time he pays for the lorries bringing his stuff, the dancers from all over the world, the instruments and musicians, and then his extravagant dining habits and outfits, he'll only have maybe 100000 left. Casement needs about 40000 to make it viable for the like of John, Parton or Meatloaf.

You letting no one stand on the pitch?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2022, 02:04:12 PM
FFs, that just leaves us with Dolly Parton!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on December 06, 2022, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 06, 2022, 02:04:12 PM
FFs, that just leaves us with Dolly Parton!

And people say she's just a big pair of tits.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on December 06, 2022, 03:42:13 PM
Can we get Philomena Begley to a 40,000 Casement in 2028?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on December 06, 2022, 03:52:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 06, 2022, 03:42:13 PM
Can we get Philomena Begley to a 40,000 Casement in 2028?
she would be better suited to a warmup gig in garvaghy first
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2022, 03:59:30 PM
If Dolly is booked I'm going, guilty pleasure  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on December 07, 2022, 10:36:35 AM
QuoteThe financial report shows a county whose core activities are in rude health but the ongoing drain that Pairc Uí Chaoimh has become has been addressed once more.

The stadium had an operating loss for 2022 of €186,170, well down on the €1,281,218 it lost in 2021 as Ed Sheeran and Westlife concerts helped to ease the burden.

But O'Donovan once again did not shy away from the legacy debt that the 'Pairc' continues to bear on Cork GAA.

"Despite healthy profits this year, the legacy debt from the stadium redevelopment continues to rest well above the €30 million mark," he wrote.

"Predictions that the stadium would open debt-free now seem like a distant memory and all efforts must be made to clear the shortfall by those now charged with its management," he added.

"Passing the debt onto the next generation doesn't bear thinking. Therefore, an action plan continues to be implemented in conjunction with all associates and we will be calling on members to support all commercial aspects under the Cork GAA umbrella.

"The sooner the stadium is placed on a firm financial footing, the sooner we can move on to future projects, for example, the much-required training centre for our teams," he wrote.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/conor-odonovan-urging-tipp-to-call-for-change-in-handpass-rule-42201027.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 07, 2022, 11:56:43 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on December 07, 2022, 10:36:35 AM
QuoteThe financial report shows a county whose core activities are in rude health but the ongoing drain that Pairc Uí Chaoimh has become has been addressed once more.

The stadium had an operating loss for 2022 of €186,170, well down on the €1,281,218 it lost in 2021 as Ed Sheeran and Westlife concerts helped to ease the burden.

But O'Donovan once again did not shy away from the legacy debt that the 'Pairc' continues to bear on Cork GAA.

"Despite healthy profits this year, the legacy debt from the stadium redevelopment continues to rest well above the €30 million mark," he wrote.

"Predictions that the stadium would open debt-free now seem like a distant memory and all efforts must be made to clear the shortfall by those now charged with its management," he added.

"Passing the debt onto the next generation doesn't bear thinking. Therefore, an action plan continues to be implemented in conjunction with all associates and we will be calling on members to support all commercial aspects under the Cork GAA umbrella.

"The sooner the stadium is placed on a firm financial footing, the sooner we can move on to future projects, for example, the much-required training centre for our teams," he wrote.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/conor-odonovan-urging-tipp-to-call-for-change-in-handpass-rule-42201027.html

Completely different. The NIGOV are funding the vast majority of the cost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on December 07, 2022, 01:09:56 PM
This has been going on for so long it's depressing...The grant money was/is for Casement and nowhere else so please stop trying to refurbish other grounds in your head, it's not happening. Casement Park or lose the money/grant. I believe (not that long ago) it was settled from a planning perspective and has the green light (can someone confirm this) to proceed. Yes the costs have risen as has every Civil Engineering project, I have been involved in several projects where they had to be re-tendered due to the time it took to get the jobs to site and the costs had spiralled out of control and Contractors simply cannot construct the project for the money it was tendered for.
Antrim need the ground, Ulster need the ground, Belfast need the ground and West Belfast need the ground so get it built. The extra millions to pay for it is chicken feed to the billions spent on the economy and the millions them useless Politicians rob of us every year for not working.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 07, 2022, 01:34:34 PM
At this point anyone saying

"We should refurbish Clones"
"We should build a new stadium in Dungannon, Portadown, Coleraine, Derry"
"We should use the money for (Insert nonsense project)"
"The costs are too high"

Should get an automatic 4 week ban from the this site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2022, 10:48:14 PM
Wonderful place, altogether
https://twitter.com/i/status/1603732155997249537
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2022, 11:35:35 PM
Last time I had involvement in large build, project sponsor needed to be at least a senior architect.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on December 19, 2022, 10:52:59 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2022, 10:48:14 PM
Wonderful place, altogether
https://twitter.com/i/status/1603732155997249537

Casement Park Project Board Chairperson Tom Daly and Project Sponsor Stephen McGeehan

We're in safe hands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on December 19, 2022, 11:04:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2022, 10:48:14 PM
Wonderful place, altogether
https://twitter.com/i/status/1603732155997249537

It'll be brilliant to see a stadium of that standard in Belfast. Long overdue. Where would the nearest train station be?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2022, 11:05:39 AM
Balmoral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on December 19, 2022, 11:14:36 AM
Finaghy as well would be close enough. No worse than the dander from Connolly station to croke park. Get it built!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on December 19, 2022, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2022, 11:05:39 AM
Balmoral.

Would it be a GAA stronghold around  there by any chance?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2022, 01:46:28 PM
Sure musgrave park is right beside it where st brigids play so it must be  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
Who'd be the closest club team to Croke park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on December 19, 2022, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 19, 2022, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2022, 11:05:39 AM
Balmoral.

Would it be a GAA stronghold around  there by any chance?
Would it be St Brigids territory from Balmoral to Stockmans lane?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SCFC on December 20, 2022, 04:59:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2022, 03:27:00 PM
Who'd be the closest club team to Croke park?
St Josephs/O'Connell Boys I'd say?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: delgany on December 20, 2022, 08:15:33 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 19, 2022, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 19, 2022, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2022, 11:05:39 AM
Balmoral.

Would it be a GAA stronghold around  there by any chance?
Would it be St Brigids territory from Balmoral to Stockmans lane?
That would be the edge of their parish, although, parish boundaries- dont stop them from acquiring from other clubs !
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2022, 08:56:58 PM
We won't really know but the last one I could get was this one

BARCELONA 2 BRAZIL 2, 1999

This incredible contest took place at the Nou Camp as part of Barcelona's centenary celebrations. Ronaldo put Brazil ahead on his return to Barca (he was an Inter player by this point, but had yet to sign for Real Madrid!) before Barca equalised. Barcelona's Rivaldo put Brazil 2-1 up by half-time (he was playing for his country), but the Catalans levelled things when Brazilian Sonny Anderson (who couldn't break into his national side) got the game's final goal.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2023, 07:58:17 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/02/relief-as-gaa-finances-back-on-track-with-record-revenues-for-2022/

There is also a figure of €14 million on the GAA balance sheet going toward the £15 million commitment to Casement Park in Belfast, a much delayed project that has climbed in projected cost to between €120 million and €140 million.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 02:19:23 PM
So Casement Park submitted in the list of 10 stadiums to host Euro 2028. . .

Cahair O'Kane tweeting that for Euro 2024 any new stadium must have started the building 4 years before the tournament starts meaning the spade will have to be in the ground at Casement by June 2024. I would be pleasantly surprised if this happened.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on April 12, 2023, 02:35:56 PM
Is there a timescale in place at the moment or what is the latest roadblock?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid

Croke Park is bigger than the Aviva
Casement doesn't exist
Old Trafford is bigger than Etihad
New Everton stadium doesn't exist
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid
Croke Park is bigger than the AvivaCasement doesn't existOld Trafford is bigger than EtihadNew Everton stadium doesn't exist

I think its reasonable enough. London's the only city with two stadiums and its about 10 times bigger than Dublin. Croker isnt a good experience for a Soccer game at all either, the pitch is far too big. The assumption is that Croker will get Casement's games if Casement isn't built in time.

Old Trafford is likely to be getting redeveloped in 2028. Everton's planned stadium looks great and Liverpool as a city was always going to get games, and half of Anfield is very behind the times. That Everton stadium is already half complete
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid
Croke Park is bigger than the AvivaCasement doesn't existOld Trafford is bigger than EtihadNew Everton stadium doesn't exist

Not really. London as final city gets 2 venues. The FAI were never going to use Croker ahead of their own ground.

Old Trafford and Anfield are quite dated, regardless of size.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 03:34:41 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid
Croke Park is bigger than the AvivaCasement doesn't existOld Trafford is bigger than EtihadNew Everton stadium doesn't exist

I think its reasonable enough. London's the only city with two stadiums and its about 10 times bigger than Dublin. Croker isnt a good experience for a Soccer game at all either, the pitch is far too big. The assumption is that Croker will get Casement's games if Casement isn't built in time.

Old Trafford is likely to be getting redeveloped in 2028. Everton's planned stadium looks great and Liverpool as a city was always going to get games, and half of Anfield is very behind the times. That Everton stadium is already half complete

Why would Dublin get a 2x venue derogation? Edinburgh or any number of English cities could fill the gap
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 03:41:54 PM
I don't think it will be Croke Park to replace Casement if it doesn't get built in time. UEFA don't allow the use of temporary seating for tournament stadiums. Though in saying that is Casement going to be an all seater?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 12, 2023, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 03:41:54 PM
I don't think it will be Croke Park to replace Casement if it doesn't get built in time. UEFA don't allow the use of temporary seating for tournament stadiums.

That would not be a reason not to have Croke Park, it would still have more seats than most venues.
It appears that they only want one venue per city.

Casement needs to get a move on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 03:34:41 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid
Croke Park is bigger than the AvivaCasement doesn't existOld Trafford is bigger than EtihadNew Everton stadium doesn't exist

I think its reasonable enough. London's the only city with two stadiums and its about 10 times bigger than Dublin. Croker isnt a good experience for a Soccer game at all either, the pitch is far too big. The assumption is that Croker will get Casement's games if Casement isn't built in time.

Old Trafford is likely to be getting redeveloped in 2028. Everton's planned stadium looks great and Liverpool as a city was always going to get games, and half of Anfield is very behind the times. That Everton stadium is already half complete

Why would Dublin get a 2x venue derogation? Edinburgh or any number of English cities could fill the gap

I'm just going by what I've seen from Journalists on twitter. I'd assume if Casement can't make it then it's seen that logically games fixed for Ireland would remain on the island.

But anyway, that wouldn't be a decision made until such a scenario arose and it's surely extremely likely Casement gets sorted now that theyve been named, which is great. The UK government has to give substantial backing to it now. Should be full steam ahead
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 03:34:41 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid
Croke Park is bigger than the AvivaCasement doesn't existOld Trafford is bigger than EtihadNew Everton stadium doesn't exist

I think its reasonable enough. London's the only city with two stadiums and its about 10 times bigger than Dublin. Croker isnt a good experience for a Soccer game at all either, the pitch is far too big. The assumption is that Croker will get Casement's games if Casement isn't built in time.

Old Trafford is likely to be getting redeveloped in 2028. Everton's planned stadium looks great and Liverpool as a city was always going to get games, and half of Anfield is very behind the times. That Everton stadium is already half complete

Why would Dublin get a 2x venue derogation? Edinburgh or any number of English cities could fill the gap

I'm just going by what I've seen from Journalists on twitter. I'd assume if Casement can't make it then it's seen that logically games fixed for Ireland would remain on the island.

But anyway, that wouldn't be a decision made until such a scenario arose and it's surely extremely likely Casement gets sorted now that theyve been named, which is great. The UK government has to give substantial backing to it now. Should be full steam ahead

Scotland x1, Wales x1, Ireland x1, 6c x1, Englandshire the rest. If Casement isn't ready the 6c falls out and Sheffield, Leeds, Sunderland or somewhere falls in.

But I assume something is happening in the background for it to be named full stop.

Also Old Trafford was withdrawn as it is due for a refurbishment in 2028
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 04:02:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 12, 2023, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 03:41:54 PM
I don't think it will be Croke Park to replace Casement if it doesn't get built in time. UEFA don't allow the use of temporary seating for tournament stadiums.

That would not be a reason not to have Croke Park, it would still have more seats than most venues.
It appears that they only want one venue per city.

Casement needs to get a move on.

Appreicate that but a 3/4 full stadium wouldn't be the image UEFA would be after for their big competition.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 04:02:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 12, 2023, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: square_ball on April 12, 2023, 03:41:54 PM
I don't think it will be Croke Park to replace Casement if it doesn't get built in time. UEFA don't allow the use of temporary seating for tournament stadiums.

That would not be a reason not to have Croke Park, it would still have more seats than most venues.
It appears that they only want one venue per city.

Casement needs to get a move on.

Appreicate that but a 3/4 full stadium wouldn't be the image UEFA would be after for their big competition.

We were all bewildered as to why Croker was ever in contention. It was removed as expected.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 12, 2023, 05:26:18 PM
They'll tear down Old Trafford and rebuild it before Casement is done. Can never see it getting built at this rate. The DUP will just block and block
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 12, 2023, 05:37:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 12, 2023, 05:26:18 PM
They'll tear down Old Trafford and rebuild it before Casement is done. Can never see it getting built at this rate. The DUP will just block and block

It's not just the DUP, GAA going to stump up their share ? There will need to be some back scratching at Stormont with the DUP for some of their "projects" to get them onside. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 12, 2023, 05:39:35 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 12, 2023, 05:37:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 12, 2023, 05:26:18 PM
They'll tear down Old Trafford and rebuild it before Casement is done. Can never see it getting built at this rate. The DUP will just block and block

It's not just the DUP, GAA going to stump up their share ? There will need to be some back scratching at Stormont with the DUP for some of their "projects" to get them onside. 

Exactly. Some amount of new orange halls to make up 60 odd million. Until then we can expect to hear what about this, that and the other when discussing casement - schools, roads, hospitals etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 12, 2023, 06:53:53 PM
Who is the other body? Tourism? Uefa are never going to stump it up! Private backer? Unlikely. It surely has to come from Stormont,?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 12, 2023, 08:36:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 12, 2023, 06:53:53 PM
Who is the other body? Tourism? Uefa are never going to stump it up! Private backer? Unlikely. It surely has to come from Stormont,?

I assume it will be as stark as if you want the games, build the venue. If you don't, don't. I would assume like PuCit would come with a soccer and rugby allowed string
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thewobbler on April 12, 2023, 08:38:28 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

17m is a sound investment compared to leaving it up to Invest NI.

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on April 12, 2023, 08:41:34 PM
Nurses & kids again.  No one ever thinks about the teachers. ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on April 12, 2023, 08:49:38 PM
The shopping lists on all sides will be drawn up as part of the get back to Stormont choreography.  DUP will be pushing for money so they can do x, y and z.  Sinn Fein will factor Casement into their list.  This is where the new money will come from - Treasury.  Another pay off to get us out of their hair, (until the next time).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pbat on April 12, 2023, 09:16:13 PM
The DUP should have been taking a few billion of Europe to accept the protocol and sell it to there gang as win. But would rather eat a flag, shower of c**ts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 12, 2023, 09:17:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 12, 2023, 08:49:38 PM
The shopping lists on all sides will be drawn up as part of the get back to Stormont choreography.  DUP will be pushing for money so they can do x, y and z.  Sinn Fein will factor Casement into their list.  This is where the new money will come from - Treasury.  Another pay off to get us out of their hair, (until the next time).

They can probably swing this, there is the existing money and the London might be helping out to some extent with other Euro2028 expenditure, so can give them something under that heading. Perhaps Euro2028 can be used as an excuse to upgrade the Dublin-Belfast rail connection and some other things like that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 12, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.

The figure widely quoted was £7million, not £17million.

That's £7million out of ~£14billion. Or, about 0.05% of annual spend. Some would say that's fairly cheap for getting the leader of the world's largest economy into town for the night.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on April 12, 2023, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Soccer also got an equivalent amount and £25m already went to Windsor despite IFA putting up very little compared to GAA's commitment to fork out £15m on top of the £62m to upgrade Casement. The rest of the soccer allocation is due to the clubs. That's the only thing the DUP can complain about if that is held back. It won't be if Assembly returns.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 12, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.

The figure widely quoted was £7million, not £17million.

That's £7million out of ~£14billion. Or, about 0.05% of annual spend. Some would say that's fairly cheap for getting the leader of the world's largest economy into town for the night.

That's great   ::)

£7m or £17m , it hardly matters. An  absurd amount  of money, and  for what?  So  that some people can stand in the  rain  to wave  at a man in a car with blacked out  windows?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 12:59:36 AM
Well with cost be specific, don't pull a price out of thin air. As for Casement, the cost be, £110 Millon +, so unless the, GAA throwing £25 million to match the stormont increase, that white horse will never get off the ground. Not a lost to Ulster to be honest but it affects Antrim Fball and Hurling alot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 13, 2023, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 12, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.

The figure widely quoted was £7million, not £17million.

That's £7million out of ~£14billion. Or, about 0.05% of annual spend. Some would say that's fairly cheap for getting the leader of the world's largest economy into town for the night.

That's great   ::)

£7m or £17m , it hardly matters. An  absurd amount  of money, and  for what?  So  that some people can stand in the  rain  to wave  at a man in a car with blacked out  windows?
Would love to see a break down of that spend, can't get my head around how you could spend so much for so little time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 13, 2023, 11:47:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 13, 2023, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 12, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.

The figure widely quoted was £7million, not £17million.

That's £7million out of ~£14billion. Or, about 0.05% of annual spend. Some would say that's fairly cheap for getting the leader of the world's largest economy into town for the night.

That's great   ::)

£7m or £17m , it hardly matters. An  absurd amount  of money, and  for what?  So  that some people can stand in the  rain  to wave  at a man in a car with blacked out  windows?
Would love to see a break down of that spend, can't get my head around how you could spend so much for so little time.

Apparently, there were 3000 cops involved. And they didn't just land in Tuesday morning and start throwing a plan together. Very easy to see how costs add up with that number of people involved over a period of weeks (including over a couple of O/T accruing bank holidays).

Anyone so focussed on (relatively minute) cost that they can't see the potential upside of such a visit is either being deliberately contrary, or is just a bit obtuse.

Anyway, the cops will probably get most of the money back from Westminster through some convoluted funding mechanism for visits by foreign dignitaries.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on April 13, 2023, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 13, 2023, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 12, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.

The figure widely quoted was £7million, not £17million.

That's £7million out of ~£14billion. Or, about 0.05% of annual spend. Some would say that's fairly cheap for getting the leader of the world's largest economy into town for the night.

That's great   ::)

£7m or £17m , it hardly matters. An  absurd amount  of money, and  for what?  So  that some people can stand in the  rain  to wave  at a man in a car with blacked out  windows?
Would love to see a break down of that spend, can't get my head around how you could spend so much for so little time.
The beast takes some amount of fuel to fill..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 13, 2023, 12:17:07 PM
Quote from: rrhf on April 13, 2023, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 13, 2023, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 12, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 12, 2023, 10:54:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on April 12, 2023, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?

Speaking of money ,  I Just heard that  Biden was in the north 17 hours  and it cost £17 million .  Who's paying  for that?   At the same time,  police  numbers are to be reduced . That's a lot of police officers salaries there

17m is   about a  seventh of the 120m (so I hear) of casement cost

It's   funny   That money can be found when  it's  needed , yet they can't give  nurses a raise , nor find money for  kids meals
Madness. Assume that comes from Stormonts budget? Madness.

The figure widely quoted was £7million, not £17million.

That's £7million out of ~£14billion. Or, about 0.05% of annual spend. Some would say that's fairly cheap for getting the leader of the world's largest economy into town for the night.

That's great   ::)

£7m or £17m , it hardly matters. An  absurd amount  of money, and  for what?  So  that some people can stand in the  rain  to wave  at a man in a car with blacked out  windows?
Would love to see a break down of that spend, can't get my head around how you could spend so much for so little time.
The beast takes some amount of fuel to fill..
Would a drop of red not have done rightly lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2023, 12:34:01 PM
They mentioned on Ulster radio the other day that most of the money is claimed back from the Whitehouse, so thanks Gmac/Whitey  :D Least your tax is being used wisely over here...... for once
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 13, 2023, 12:42:13 PM
What are the chances that Eng and Irl win this bid? Up against Turkey, minimal oversight there. Grease a few palms.

FWIW Casement should absolutely be built and Stormont or UK GOV should fund the shortfall. End of Story. For years the north has been neglected in terms of investment. Time the balance was redressed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2023, 01:33:11 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2023, 12:55:24 PM
I agree. They should fund us another £62 million on top of the £62 million they already gave us. Then we can make a balls of our project again and go back for another £62 million. Keep doing this until we have all the money we deserve. I'm sure they'll agree.

No, we should do our job properly and build the thing, even if previous efforts have been a disgrace.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Last effort at building sthing (Dungiven by pass) properly over here, opened just last week, a year late, overspend and that bad, they wouldn't release any information about it. Hardly an endorsement to give some local Joe Blogg's contractor to built a stadium. Effort  before, the Ulster University, millions overspend and finished 2yrs+ late.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 13, 2023, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Last effort at building sthing (Dungiven by pass) properly over here, opened just last week, a year late, overspend and that bad, they wouldn't release any information about it. Hardly an endorsement to give some local Joe Blogg's contractor to built a stadium. Effort  before, the Ulster University, millions overspend and finished 2yrs+ late.

At this point we need to accept that it will be late and 100m over budget. Incompetence reigns in NI. Civil Servants and other not for profit bodies seem to have some sort of magnet in attracting unemployable gobshites.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on April 13, 2023, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Last effort at building sthing (Dungiven by pass) properly over here, opened just last week, a year late, overspend and that bad, they wouldn't release any information about it. Hardly an endorsement to give some local Joe Blogg's contractor to built a stadium. Effort  before, the Ulster University, millions overspend and finished 2yrs+ late.
They literally ran out of money.  As soon as we entered a new financial year they paid up and the contractor lifted the cones.  That's how bankrupt we are.  Place is a basket case, but SF will have their green projects and DUP will have their orange projects, and it'll all be cap in hand to London.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 13, 2023, 08:21:05 PM
Now we've the NI supporters club not backing casement as host ground. No surprise there. Any nationalist that supports or plays for that rabble needs their head examined!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pbat on April 13, 2023, 09:54:20 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Last effort at building sthing (Dungiven by pass) properly over here, opened just last week, a year late, overspend and that bad, they wouldn't release any information about it. Hardly an endorsement to give some local Joe Blogg's contractor to built a stadium. Effort  before, the Ulster University, millions overspend and finished 2yrs+ late.

The UU project was a shambles from start to the current day. I'm currently doing a day a week in it with the School of Build Environment and the standard of finish, the leaks, electrical issues are ridiculously. They gave it out to a Portuguese contractor, yet they're in partnership with Graham's, Farran's and McAleer & Rushe to take placement students every year. If I was any of them companies I know i'd be telling them were to go when they come cap in hand looking sponsorship or placements. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on April 13, 2023, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 13, 2023, 08:21:05 PM
Now we've the NI supporters club not backing casement as host ground. No surprise there. Any nationalist that supports or plays for that rabble needs their head examined!

Unionism saying no to everything.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffsof82 on April 13, 2023, 11:25:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 13, 2023, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Last effort at building sthing (Dungiven by pass) properly over here, opened just last week, a year late, overspend and that bad, they wouldn't release any information about it. Hardly an endorsement to give some local Joe Blogg's contractor to built a stadium. Effort  before, the Ulster University, millions overspend and finished 2yrs+ late.

At this point we need to accept that it will be late and 100m over budget. Incompetence reigns in NI. Civil Servants and other not for profit bodies seem to have some sort of magnet in

attracting unemployable gobshites.

Not just here, look at that mess across the water with HS2 ffs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on April 13, 2023, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Saffsof82 on April 13, 2023, 11:25:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 13, 2023, 05:05:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 13, 2023, 03:59:01 PM
Last effort at building sthing (Dungiven by pass) properly over here, opened just last week, a year late, overspend and that bad, they wouldn't release any information about it. Hardly an endorsement to give some local Joe Blogg's contractor to built a stadium. Effort  before, the Ulster University, millions overspend and finished 2yrs+ late.

At this point we need to accept that it will be late and 100m over budget. Incompetence reigns in NI. Civil Servants and other not for profit bodies seem to have some sort of magnet in

attracting unemployable gobshites.

Not just here, look at that mess across the water with HS2 ffs

And the new Children's Hospital in the 26 counties.

Seems to be the norm these days.

X is the cost but you'll have to add Y to it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 14, 2023, 08:52:56 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2023, 05:55:23 PM
You can accept that it is going to be £100 million over budget if you wish but there will be many that won't. They won't see it as a good investment of £162 million. They won't see that incompetence deserves to be rewarded and they won't agree to it and politely ask the GAA to lump it. Those are people with influence at Stormont and it's hard to say that they are wrong. Indeed, if this was an IFA project, I suspect you might think differently.

I would to be fair. But Rugby and Soccer got the exact stadiums they wanted.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 14, 2023, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2023, 08:52:56 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2023, 05:55:23 PM
You can accept that it is going to be £100 million over budget if you wish but there will be many that won't. They won't see it as a good investment of £162 million. They won't see that incompetence deserves to be rewarded and they won't agree to it and politely ask the GAA to lump it. Those are people with influence at Stormont and it's hard to say that they are wrong. Indeed, if this was an IFA project, I suspect you might think differently.

I would to be fair. But Rugby and Soccer got the exact stadiums they wanted.

They didn't forge safety certs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2023, 10:04:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 13, 2023, 08:21:05 PM
Now we've the NI supporters club not backing casement as host ground. No surprise there. Any nationalist that supports or plays for that rabble needs their head examined!

Windsor Park only has a capacity of 18,000 but as long as they are all Protestant I suppose It doesn't matter .
UEFA minimum is around 30K for those Euros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 14, 2023, 10:06:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 14, 2023, 10:04:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 13, 2023, 08:21:05 PM
Now we've the NI supporters club not backing casement as host ground. No surprise there. Any nationalist that supports or plays for that rabble needs their head examined!

Windsor Park only has a capacity of 18,000 but as long as they are all Protestant I suppose It doesn't matter .
UEFA minimum is around 30K for those Euros.

Let them build a white elephant at Windsor. They'll not be able to afford the leccy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 14, 2023, 10:29:35 AM
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/editorial-it-would-be-a-scandal-to-give-ps100-million-of-public-money-to-the-gaa-casement-stadium-4103751 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/editorial-it-would-be-a-scandal-to-give-ps100-million-of-public-money-to-the-gaa-casement-stadium-4103751)

They really have zero self awareness.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on April 14, 2023, 11:08:11 AM
They should have given Windsor a much higher capacity when they redeveloped it in 2014. With the success of the NI team they would have easily filled a 25-30,000 stadium so they have only themselves to blame.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 14, 2023, 11:53:34 AM
Well they all had the chance for, soccer/ Gaelic at the Maze built years ago for less money than the current projects.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 14, 2023, 12:31:55 PM
I used to care about value for money and good governance, I honestly did but lately I'm like what is the point? The money will be spunked on some other useless project. I couldn't care if it costs 1 billion. I never see any government money anyway. It's all wasted. Heath service, Infrastructure, Community out-reach, SIF, it's all useless. We are governed by absolute morons and people continue to vote them in, so f**k them. In fact the more it costs the better. The more it hurts the better.

I have been forced to take an "I'm alright jack" approach due to the incompetence of government here to deliver services. I'm fortunate that I can afford private health care, I can afford to pay for tutors, and other things. I'm lucky and I'm grateful for it. But look at even this week. A real chance to spin NI in a positive light, opportunity to appeal for investment from the USA but what happens? The DUP and others snub the President. We could all achieve so much more but nothing ever changes and it never will, and you know what? A lot of my friends and family see it the same way.

And while I'm at it, what is the point of that McGeehan lad in the Ulster Council? What does he do apart from pose for pictures?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2023, 12:55:42 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 14, 2023, 11:08:11 AM
They should have given Windsor a much higher capacity when they redeveloped it in 2014. With the success of the NI team they would have easily filled a 25-30,000 stadium so they have only themselves to blame.
That was really shortsighted
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2023, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2023, 12:31:55 PM
I used to care about value for money and good governance, I honestly did but lately I'm like what is the point? The money will be spunked on some other useless project. I couldn't care if it costs 1 billion. I never see any government money anyway. It's all wasted. Heath service, Infrastructure, Community out-reach, SIF, it's all useless. We are governed by absolute morons and people continue to vote them in, so f**k them. In fact the more it costs the better. The more it hurts the better.

I have been forced to take an "I'm alright jack" approach due to the incompetence of government here to deliver services. I'm fortunate that I can afford private health care, I can afford to pay for tutors, and other things. I'm lucky and I'm grateful for it. But look at even this week. A real chance to spin NI in a positive light, opportunity to appeal for investment from the USA but what happens? The DUP and others snub the President. We could all achieve so much more but nothing ever changes and it never will, and you know what? A lot of my friends and family see it the same way.

And while I'm at it, what is the point of that McGeehan lad in the Ulster Council? What does he do apart from pose for pictures?

the problem with private health is that it is more or less the same infrastructure. The government will spunk your money as you say but the problem will become outcomes for you or people in your family in the case of health problems. Over the next number of years I would expect life expectancy to drop a good bit here.

On your latter question I wonder the same - and his predecessor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2023, 01:25:19 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 14, 2023, 01:21:11 PM
I'm not sure how paying a billion quid for a stadium in Andytown that isn't required is going to put paid to all the demons you have going on there but whatever you think yourself....

I don't see how exaggerating the cost adds to the debate either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 14, 2023, 01:34:30 PM
We need a state of the art stadium. Just f**king build it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 14, 2023, 02:35:46 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 14, 2023, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2023, 01:34:30 PM
We need a state of the art stadium. Just f**king build it.
I've been hearing that same simplistic bullshit tagline for over 10 years now.
Meaningless drivel.

What's your solution? Clones? With the piss swirling round your feet and no cover.
We deserve a comfortable modern stadium to watch our games in. End of.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 14, 2023, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 14, 2023, 02:46:33 PM
Solution: Take your £77 million and build what you can. If you require any further funds, raise them yourself.
You shit the bed. Lie in it or clean it up yourself.

No.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on April 14, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
Dublin will have 5 billion surplus every year for next 5 years. Since it's a GAA stadium that will ultimately promote Irish culture, Irish gov should cover the additional costs. An additional 50 million is nothing in the scheme of things. It would soften the cough of some DUPers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on April 14, 2023, 03:25:10 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 14, 2023, 02:55:16 PM
Fair enough. Do nothing like you have done for over 10 years now.

Apologies, you have of course written "Get it built" on social media 10s of thousands of times and had some marvellous photo shoots. Keep it going cos it's working tremendously well.

Believe me if I was in charge of this project it would be built by now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 14, 2023, 03:40:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2023, 01:34:30 PM
We need a state of the art stadium. Just f**king build it.

Tried to. Belfasties said no.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonadmad on April 14, 2023, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 14, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
Dublin will have 5 billion surplus every year for next 5 years. Since it's a GAA stadium that will ultimately promote Irish culture, Irish gov should cover the additional costs. An additional 50 million is nothing in the scheme of things. It would soften the cough of some DUPers.

Any surplus that the Irish state runs should be used to pay down the Irish national debt and for projects such as the M20 which will benefit the Irish taxpayer

It's not up to the Irish Taxpayers to fund a British Based development which if anything,the British taxpayer should be funding

The GAA has pledged £15m already which would have been more than enough if rank incompetence hadn't delayed this project
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 14, 2023, 03:46:09 PM
Sorry wtf?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on April 14, 2023, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 14, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
Dublin will have 5 billion surplus every year for next 5 years. Since it's a GAA stadium that will ultimately promote Irish culture, Irish gov should cover the additional costs. An additional 50 million is nothing in the scheme of things. It would soften the cough of some DUPers.

I don't think they should it would be alot better spent on doing up the likes of Clones, Navan, Breffni etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 14, 2023, 04:28:39 PM
GAA people in the 6 Cos. pay taxes to the London Government.
Therefore that Government should make up the shortfall if they want this soccer tourney.
If the soccer thing doesn't materialise build what the existing funds will cover.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on April 14, 2023, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on April 14, 2023, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 14, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
Dublin will have 5 billion surplus every year for next 5 years. Since it's a GAA stadium that will ultimately promote Irish culture, Irish gov should cover the additional costs. An additional 50 million is nothing in the scheme of things. It would soften the cough of some DUPers.

I don't think they should it would be alot better spent on doing up the likes of Clones, Navan, Breffni etc.

Agreed on these grounds too. But I do think its reasonable that Irish government funds GAA grounds in six counties, just as they are helping with funding Gaelic Park in New York. Not to support Euro 28, but to ensure Gaelic games has a modern stadium in Belfast. It's a long term investment in our native games. Brits won't care if Casement is not built nor will Unionists (in fact they will be delighted) - there's a waiting list of 3 stadia in England that will take that spot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 14, 2023, 05:07:32 PM
How about providing multi coaches from the GAA for Antrim been a bigger need going on their display last week.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 14, 2023, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 14, 2023, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on April 14, 2023, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: weareros on April 14, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
Dublin will have 5 billion surplus every year for next 5 years. Since it's a GAA stadium that will ultimately promote Irish culture, Irish gov should cover the additional costs. An additional 50 million is nothing in the scheme of things. It would soften the cough of some DUPers.

I don't think they should it would be alot better spent on doing up the likes of Clones, Navan, Breffni etc.

Agreed on these grounds too. But I do think its reasonable that Irish government funds GAA grounds in six counties, just as they are helping with funding Gaelic Park in New York. Not to support Euro 28, but to ensure Gaelic games has a modern stadium in Belfast. It's a long term investment in our native games. Brits won't care if Casement is not built nor will Unionists (in fact they will be delighted) - there's a waiting list of 3 stadia in England that will take that spot.

They are funding a social centre that happens to be located in a venue the GAA use. Whole different ballgame to dropping £100m into Belfast when sports venues in the south are creaking at best
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2023, 07:50:23 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 13, 2023, 05:55:23 PM
You can accept that it is going to be £100 million over budget if you wish but there will be many that won't. They won't see it as a good investment of £162 million.

I wouldn't see it as a good investment at £16.2 million.

One covered terrace, one covered seated stand, two ends uncovered terrace. Simple, affordable, and in actual fact, a better fit for what Antrim and Ulster actually need.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 14, 2023, 10:05:48 PM
In reality if u were in a position of power and that business case came in front of you, for £62 million plus GAA £15million. Now £130Million,  how can you justify it when the EA budget slashed, Health service crumbling, Roads not repaired. Take off the political or GAA glasses, it's very hard to justify.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on April 14, 2023, 10:09:35 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 14, 2023, 10:05:48 PM
In reality if u were in a position of power and that business case came in front of you, for £62 million plus GAA £15million. Now £130Million,  how can you justify it when the EA  budget slashed, Health service crumbling, Roads un repaired. Tali g if the political or GAA glasses, it's very hard to justify.

If that argument had legs, then every museum, library and arts theatre would be permanently shut down.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2023, 10:57:02 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 14, 2023, 10:26:10 PM
The difference is that the other two organisations delivered their ground redevelopment while the GAA has yet to do so. They still can. With £77 million.

They can, but that would be feck all use to EURO2028.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on April 14, 2023, 11:20:01 PM
Should have built it in Lough Neagh and then built bridges leading to it. Some of the bridges could have been named after prominent loyalists as well as republicans.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on April 14, 2023, 11:55:34 PM
The Aldos Stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 15, 2023, 12:06:37 AM
The idea to sell bales of silage from the pitch hasn't generated enough to match the shortfall?

Very entertaining few pages. My position hasn't changed. It's too big, it's not what's required but it has become a vanity project for the Shinners, the Ulster Council and various others usually seen on TV saying Get Er Built, so nobody will back down even if it means getting nothing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2023, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 15, 2023, 12:06:37 AM
The idea to sell bales of silage from the pitch hasn't generated enough to match the shortfall?

Very entertaining few pages. My position hasn't changed. It's too big, it's not what's required but it has become a vanity project for the Shinners, the Ulster Council and various others usually seen on TV saying Get Er Built, so nobody will back down even if it means getting nothing.

If it isn't that big then it is feck all use to anyone except Antrim, and the money should be for all GAA people in NI, not those least interested.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 15, 2023, 01:50:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 14, 2023, 11:00:32 PM
Even better.

For more than a decade I've been listening to the bullshit sound bites that this stadium has potential to wake the sleeping giant of Antrim GAA, unlock the massive potential of GAA in the city. It's complete nonsense but people clearly buy it.

Yet, here we are praying that one of the most prestigious soccer competitions in the world can save our souls. A previous hope was a Rugby World Cup bid. Not a single f**k is given about GAA growth with this stadium.

This was never about GAA growth. There was funding available that got grabbed. Figuring out what to do with it was an afterthought.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on April 15, 2023, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 15, 2023, 12:06:37 AM
The idea to sell bales of silage from the pitch hasn't generated enough to match the shortfall?

Very entertaining few pages. My position hasn't changed. It's too big, it's not what's required but it has become a vanity project for the Shinners, the Ulster Council and various others usually seen on TV saying Get Er Built, so nobody will back down even if it means getting nothing.

That's the long and the short of it. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on April 15, 2023, 10:31:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2023, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 15, 2023, 12:06:37 AM
The idea to sell bales of silage from the pitch hasn't generated enough to match the shortfall?

Very entertaining few pages. My position hasn't changed. It's too big, it's not what's required but it has become a vanity project for the Shinners, the Ulster Council and various others usually seen on TV saying Get Er Built, so nobody will back down even if it means getting nothing.

If it isn't that big then it is feck all use to anyone except Antrim, and the money should be for all GAA people in NI, not those least interested.

Concerts. Feile events
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2023, 11:21:28 AM
What 2/3 times a year
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 15, 2023, 11:07:44 PM
Fortunately none of you naysayers had a voice in the early 1990s or Croke Park never would have been redeveloped. Have ye no sense of vision? The redeveloped Casement will be the best and we deserve the best.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2023, 11:15:43 PM
How often is the new stadium in Cork used?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 15, 2023, 11:43:57 PM
With 250 odd Clubs .... I'd say quite a lot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2023, 11:45:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 15, 2023, 11:43:57 PM
With 250 odd Clubs .... I'd say quite a lot.

Do they all get into it ? Cos I'm pretty sure the clubs in Antrim will be *way* down the pecking order when it comes to getting into Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2023, 11:50:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 15, 2023, 11:45:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 15, 2023, 11:43:57 PM
With 250 odd Clubs .... I'd say quite a lot.

Do they all get into it ? Cos I'm pretty sure the clubs in Antrim will be *way* down the pecking order when it comes to getting into Casement

Perhaps Antrim should now agree to fund a large part of the funding gap on the basis that their clubs would get on?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2023, 12:06:03 AM
If I recall correctly the first match played in the new Páirc was a Minor or u21 Club Hurling game which attracted over 10,000 spectators
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on April 16, 2023, 12:34:42 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 15, 2023, 11:07:44 PM
Fortunately none of you naysayers had a voice in the early 1990s or Croke Park never would have been redeveloped. Have ye no sense of vision? The redeveloped Casement will be the best and we deserve the best.

Croke Park is a white elephant that breaks above even a handful of times a year. Games sell out what, 3 times a year at most? It's far too big.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2023, 03:55:45 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 16, 2023, 12:12:41 AM
Erm...they have. They have given their ground to Ulster GAA. A significant enough donation.


Good point.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 16, 2023, 12:12:41 AM
However, you make an interesting point. Since this is not Antrim's stadium but one for all, perhaps the other counties should pony up to the same tune as Antrim have.

Other counties will not be having club or home county games there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 16, 2023, 08:17:21 AM
They will have to apply for games though like anyone else would.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on April 16, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2023, 11:15:43 PM
How often is the new stadium in Cork used?

Saw a stat a while back that it has crowds of over 30k only 5 times since it opened and the two times it got a full crowd were for a soccer testimonial and a rguby game.

Capacity of 45k.

The debt is killing Cork GAA and will for years to come - for the biggest/second biggest GAA county the number of coaches employed is nothing short of a scandal.

All the pre-building chat was that the new stadium would be a money-maker for Cork GAA has been proved to be hot air and the stadium management basically admitted last year that it's unlikely to turn a profit any time soon.

The fact that Cork GAA haven't managed to get any sponsor to buy the naming rights to the stadium despite the fact that they have been trying to sell them since before the refurb was completed is fairly damming.

PuC is a massive example for Casement but it seems the powers that be in Ulster are determined to ignore the obvious pitfalls.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2023, 08:41:26 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 16, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2023, 11:15:43 PM
How often is the new stadium in Cork used?

Saw a stat a while back that it has crowds of over 30k only 5 times since it opened and the two times it got a full crowd were for a soccer testimonial and a rguby game.

Capacity of 45k.

The debt is killing Cork GAA and will for years to come - for the biggest/second biggest GAA county the number of coaches employed is nothing short of a scandal.

All the pre-building chat was that the new stadium would be a money-maker for Cork GAA has been proved to be hot air and the stadium management basically admitted last year that it's unlikely to turn a profit any time soon.

The fact that Cork GAA haven't managed to get any sponsor to buy the naming rights to the stadium despite the fact that they have been trying to sell them since before the refurb was completed is fairly damming.

PuC is a massive example for Casement but it seems the powers that be in Ulster are determined to ignore the obvious pitfalls.

By that reckoning nearly all new stadiums wouldn't make much money. Would Croke break even?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 16, 2023, 10:04:28 PM
They pull bigger crowds if tickets weren't so dear.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on April 16, 2023, 10:36:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2023, 08:41:26 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 16, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 15, 2023, 11:15:43 PM
How often is the new stadium in Cork used?

Saw a stat a while back that it has crowds of over 30k only 5 times since it opened and the two times it got a full crowd were for a soccer testimonial and a rguby game.

Capacity of 45k.

The debt is killing Cork GAA and will for years to come - for the biggest/second biggest GAA county the number of coaches employed is nothing short of a scandal.

All the pre-building chat was that the new stadium would be a money-maker for Cork GAA has been proved to be hot air and the stadium management basically admitted last year that it's unlikely to turn a profit any time soon.

The fact that Cork GAA haven't managed to get any sponsor to buy the naming rights to the stadium despite the fact that they have been trying to sell them since before the refurb was completed is fairly damming.

PuC is a massive example for Casement but it seems the powers that be in Ulster are determined to ignore the obvious pitfalls.

By that reckoning nearly all new stadiums wouldn't make much money. Would Croke break even?

Croke Park makes money - there's absolutely no comparison between the crowds that Croke Park gets in a year compared to what PuC gets.
Casement's potential attendences are far more likely to be similar to what PuC gets as opposed to anything Croke Park gets.
There's also the fact that Croke Park can sell corporate boxes off the back of All-Ireland finals and semi-finals.
Cork's efforts to see "corporate" tickets supposedly failed miserably.
I'd be expecting the demand in Belfast for corporate boxes to be far closer to PuC than Croke Park.
Casement might as well be called PuC Version 2.0 given all the similarities between the two projects.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2023, 10:43:48 PM
Would concerts be a revenue like most big venues?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2023, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 16, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
PuC is a massive example for Casement but it seems the powers that be in Ulster are determined to ignore the obvious pitfalls.

On the football side, PUC needs a competitive Cork team, which it doesn't have.
On the hurling side, Thurles gets most of the big games in Munster.

Casement is smaller and you could easily envisage combinations of games to fill it.
There is a walk up crowd in Belfast, the Armagh v Derry semi in 2005 had 27,000 in Casement, and Derry wouldn't have provided that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2023, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 16, 2023, 11:00:35 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on April 16, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
PuC is a massive example for Casement but it seems the powers that be in Ulster are determined to ignore the obvious pitfalls.

On the football side, PUC needs a competitive Cork team, which it doesn't have.
On the hurling side, Thurles gets most of the big games in Munster.

Casement is smaller and you could easily envisage combinations of games to fill it.
There is a walk up crowd in Belfast, the Armagh v Derry semi in 2005 had 27,000 in Casement, and Derry wouldn't have provided that.

I really don't think there is. There wouldn't be enough interest in GAA in belfast to generate massive crowds as antrim games would show you. Armagh well supported and likely brought a load plus I imagine more accessible for a lot of more northern supporters.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2023, 10:31:18 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2023, 10:20:23 AM
I really don't think there is. There wouldn't be enough interest in GAA in belfast to generate massive crowds as antrim games would show you. Armagh well supported and likely brought a load plus I imagine more accessible for a lot of more northern supporters.

By "Belfast" I include areas which are in Down, people living out around Forestside etc.
There are quite a few people of country origin around Belfast or their parents were. I would have cousins living there who would have an association with Armagh as their Da was from there, I suspect they would go to the new Casement if Armagh were there, but might necessarily go to Clones.
I think that people never got the culture of going to county games in Antrim; people of Tyrone, Armagh, Down  origin in Belfast do have that culture.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 17, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
Numbers wise 3 of the biggest clubs in Ulster are in greater Belfast. Carryduff, Glengormley and Bredagh. All 3 very much grown by outsiders moving and settling in Belfast. I'd agree with the last post on those people going to a new Casement to support their home county.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on April 17, 2023, 10:49:21 AM
If Casement gets built, it could surely host some big national games too, games where the life gets sucked out of the atmosphere in 70% empty Croker. That said, Paschal seems already pissed that the Euros in Dublin will be a money loser and aghast at suggestions Irish gov contribute to Casement, so unless London ups the £62m grant, GAA will have to build whatever 77m can afford, which would still be a nice little stadium but not a 35,000 seater.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on April 17, 2023, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: weareros on April 17, 2023, 10:49:21 AM
If Casement gets built, it could surely host some big national games too, games where the life gets sucked out of the atmosphere in 70% empty Croker. That said, Paschal seems already pissed that the Euros in Dublin will be a money loser and aghast at suggestions Irish gov contribute to Casement, so unless London ups the £62m grant, GAA will have to build whatever 77m can afford, which would still be a nice little stadium but not a 35,000 seater.

It's a pity that this Stadium if it gets built and the new one in Cork are so far away from so many counties.  Apart from Croke Park they will be in the best stadiums in the Country but due to there locations are going to be a hard sell for use as neutral grounds for the All-Ireland series and possible league finals. 

Casement will probably never see a big knockout hurling championship game due to the distance it is away from the top hurling counties and cork probably wont be used regularly for big Football games either. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2023, 11:13:44 AM
Quote from: weareros on April 17, 2023, 10:49:21 AM
If Casement gets built, it could surely host some big national games too, games where the life gets sucked out of the atmosphere in 70% empty Croker. That said, Paschal seems already pissed that the Euros in Dublin will be a money loser and aghast at suggestions Irish gov contribute to Casement, so unless London ups the £62m grant, GAA will have to build whatever 77m can afford, which would still be a nice little stadium but not a 35,000 seater.

The problem for Casement and Páirc Uí Chaoimh is that they are not central, you can't play a game between Kerry and Mayo or Galway and Kilkenny there while everyone can get to Dublin.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Upandover on April 17, 2023, 11:14:31 AM
Close enough to alot of potential sam maguire winners though, you would envisage it could be neutral grounds for dublin, tyrone, armagh, derry etc.

Its 4 hours from tipp, kilkenny but teams could travel a day early as seen in games versus antrim, we live in a small country.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on April 17, 2023, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2023, 10:43:48 PM
Would concerts be a revenue like most big venues?

You'd probably get some but in Cork PuC has had the advantage that there has been very little in the way of competition in terms of other potential concert venues.

Also I'd imagine the residents around Casement would be strongly opposed to concerts and kick up a fuss plus I'm not sure how keen the PSNI would be on it as a concert venue.

I did see an article last week saying that some muscial acts were bypassing Ireland as other countries were more profitable.

Concerts would be a possible revenue stream but it wouldn't be a guaranteed one to rely on more of a bonus if possible and it's tough to know just how profitable they would be.

There was a fair bit of talk before PuC was built about it revitalising the GAA in Cork city and about it potentally taking games from Croker.

The whole providing a boost for the GAA in Cork just didn't happen and I don't think a new stadium is going to suddenly attract thousands of folk to attending matches weekly/joining a club/picking up an O'Neills or a hurl. You might get some folk along to take a look at the new stadium but that will probably be the limit.

With the new championship structure, the neutral games in the group stages would look an obvious possibility for Ulster teams but I doubt it will get any from outside Ulster.

I'm not opposed to building Casement. Work out what size of stadium makes the most sense and then build that as opposed to just going and building the biggest possible capacity that is legally allowed.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 10:03:43 PM
Joe Brolly: Toxic nationalism, the GAA, Euro 2028 | Eoin Sheahan in Belfast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bBOfcw7Og8
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on April 17, 2023, 11:20:36 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
All of a sudden, after decades of ingrained repressive social, economic and political  inequality,  in modern (progressive) times when it is perceived that nationalist interests are to benefit more, then the equality card is waved high.
So do the NI supporters have a conditional opposition to the Casement redevelopment, that its okay to rebuild Casement as long as soccer receives equal funding?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2023, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
But soccer has higher participation numbers... Did you mean attendance?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 01:29:52 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2023, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
But soccer has higher participation numbers... Did you mean attendance?

In the north? Are you sure? In South Derry I could list 15+ GAA clubs and perhaps 4-5 soccer clubs with 3 being in anyway decent.  I would be shocked if soccer participation numbers in the north are higher than GAA. This isn't Dublin pal :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 20, 2023, 07:51:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 01:29:52 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2023, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
But soccer has higher participation numbers... Did you mean attendance?

In the north? Are you sure? In South Derry I could list 15+ GAA clubs and perhaps 4-5 soccer clubs with 3 being in anyway decent.  I would be shocked if soccer participation numbers in the north are higher than GAA. This isn't Dublin pal :)

Of course soccer has massively higher participation rates in the north.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 08:07:45 AM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 20, 2023, 07:51:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 01:29:52 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2023, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
But soccer has higher participation numbers... Did you mean attendance?

In the north? Are you sure? In South Derry I could list 15+ GAA clubs and perhaps 4-5 soccer clubs with 3 being in anyway decent.  I would be shocked if soccer participation numbers in the north are higher than GAA. This isn't Dublin pal :)

Of course soccer has massively higher participation rates in the north.

I wasn't aware of that. Any links to the figures/numbers of clubs?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on April 20, 2023, 08:27:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 08:07:45 AM
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on April 20, 2023, 07:51:32 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 01:29:52 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2023, 01:50:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 14, 2023, 09:59:52 AM
I think where the NI supporters club is coming from is not an upgrade to Windsor but funding for Irish league grounds. I think that was cut recently. It's surely a different pool of money but won't stop those cretins whining. GAA of course should be given a bigger chunk of the stadium fund on participation numbers alone.
But soccer has higher participation numbers... Did you mean attendance?

In the north? Are you sure? In South Derry I could list 15+ GAA clubs and perhaps 4-5 soccer clubs with 3 being in anyway decent.  I would be shocked if soccer participation numbers in the north are higher than GAA. This isn't Dublin pal :)

Of course soccer has massively higher participation rates in the north.

I wasn't aware of that. Any links to the figures/numbers of clubs?
Given the demographics you'd imagine soccer to be higher in the north. Theres plenty of ussun's that play the foreign stuff but a tiny amount of themmun's playing GAA. Depends where you are I suppose. I know in rural South Armagh and the nationalist areas in north armagh gaelic is big but theres a lot of soccer in Newry and in the north armagh towns.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2023, 08:45:36 AM
Derry City very big soccer city either side of the fence too and then you have your portadowns, ballymenas, coleraines, larnes etc where you'd expect a lot more to play soccer than GAA. Not really a bit surprise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2023, 09:46:11 AM
young lad started playing soccer in Belfast and was very surprised at the number of clubs going with 2-3 teams at each age group at juvenile level. We are always saying there are to many GAA clubs in West Belfast. Now i'm starting to think there are enough clubs just not enough kids choosing GAA
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 10:03:27 AM
When we talk participation I assume 5 a side isn't included?? That would sway numbers greatly. I'm sure it's better organized in the bigger towns but in south Derry bar a couple of clubs it's pub teams.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on April 20, 2023, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 10:03:27 AM
When we talk participation I assume 5 a side isn't included?? That would sway numbers greatly. I'm sure it's better organized in the bigger towns but in south Derry bar a couple of clubs it's pub teams.
I estimate there's about 66 teams in the mid-ulster league. That stretches from Fivemiletown to Newcaslte in Co Down. In the same catchment area, would there be less than 66 GAA clubs? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on April 20, 2023, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: general_lee on April 20, 2023, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 20, 2023, 10:03:27 AM
When we talk participation I assume 5 a side isn't included?? That would sway numbers greatly. I'm sure it's better organized in the bigger towns but in south Derry bar a couple of clubs it's pub teams.
I estimate there's about 66 teams in the mid-ulster league. That stretches from Fivemiletown to Newcaslte in Co Down. In the same catchment area, would there be less than 66 GAA clubs? I don't think so.
F&W has around 54 teams, including reserve teams competing. They will all have the various underage grades also.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_football_league_system

There are 141 teams at Senior and intermediate level, before you get to the various local leagues, F&W, etc.

Now those clubs may not have to many watching them but at that level it is easier to play than to watch.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on April 21, 2023, 11:24:36 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid

Croke Park is bigger than the Aviva
Casement doesn't exist
Old Trafford is bigger than Etihad
New Everton stadium doesn't exist
Evening all.

Only just logged on to this thread - yes, what an exciting life I lead on a Friday evening lol - and first up on this.
1. The FAI part-own the Aviva, and so don't want to pay rent for Croke, which in any case is not ideal for soccer (far too far from the pitch etc, while standing is not permitted at internationals);
2. Agreed, but that's really a sop to the IFA/Belfast - if Casement should not get built in time, they can easily substitute another existing stadium eg Sunderland;
3. Man Utd could not guarantee that OT would be available during that period (redevelopment plans of their own);
4. Everton is already half built and is set to open in time for the 2024/25 season. (Anfield's pitch is not big enough to satisfy UEFA's minimum dimensions, and cannot be enlarged without knocking down a couple of stands, which in turn cannot be replaced on such a cramped site).

More to follow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on April 21, 2023, 11:30:55 PM
Quote from: Manning18 on April 12, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: dec on April 12, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Some strange stadium choices for the Euro bid
Croke Park is bigger than the AvivaCasement doesn't existOld Trafford is bigger than EtihadNew Everton stadium doesn't exist

I think its reasonable enough. London's the only city with two stadiums and its about 10 times bigger than Dublin. Croker isnt a good experience for a Soccer game at all either, the pitch is far too big. The assumption is that Croker will get Casement's games if Casement isn't built in time.

Old Trafford is likely to be getting redeveloped in 2028. Everton's planned stadium looks great and Liverpool as a city was always going to get games, and half of Anfield is very behind the times. That Everton stadium is already half complete
Sorry, only just seen this reply to 'dec' now.
Agree with all of it, except your assunption that Croke is on standby for Casement. Afaik, UEFA doesn't like one city hosting two different groups in two different stadia, so I think Croke has been ruled out (not certain, mind).
London is an exception since as well as Tottenham - arguably the "best" stadium in Europe - they also have the 90k Wembley for the Final and semi-Finals etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on April 21, 2023, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on April 12, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
I'm not sure that the process being hoped for here has anything to do with the DUP. To my mind, the original £62 million is sitting there for this stadium and I'm assuming the GAA will stump up their £15 million. The planning approval is in place.

The extra money is never going to come from Stormont but possibly from another body who are pushing for the Euro bid.

What is it you think the DUP could object to? The release of the £62 million?
Sorry if subsequent posts have addressed this, but when the Maze Stadium was pulled (by the bean counters at Stormont, btw), they reallocated the money to the three sporting bodies, to build their own Regional Stadia, as follows.
Ulster Rugby was granted £20m, which they used to rebuild Ravenhill.
While it having been agreed (effectively between Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness) that soccer and GAA would get equal shares, this worked out at £62.5m each.
The IFA decided to spend £26m on rebuilding Windsor, with the remaining £36.5m going towards sub-Regional stadia throughout NI, plus a national training centre.
While the GAA opted to spend all its allocation, along with £15m from its own resources, on a (then) 38k rebuild of Casement.

Now that the estimated cost of Casement has spiralled to £120m(?), no-one is sure where the extra £40-50m is going to come from. Stormont, with whom the original £145m was ring-fenced) doesn't have it without raiding other budgets, which is unlikely to get past Nationalist ministers with responsibility for schools, hospitals and housing etc, never mind Unionist ministers.

It may be that Westminster might come up with some extra dosh, in order to make it a truly UK and ROI-wide event. Which is why the IFA and GAA are united in pushing Casement - it's in both their mutual interests.

But the problem there is that if the extra money went solely to GAA without some further allocation to soccer and rugby etc, then you would effectively be "punishing" the IFA and Ulster Rugby for their competence in building Windsor and Ravenhill basically on time and within budget, while at the same time "rewarding" the GAA for their incompetence in failing even to get the first spade in the ground after a decade.

Though a newspaper report from July 2021 quoted unnamed sources at the IFA in saying that they would accept it if they (IFA) in turn got half the extra sum which the GAA  are seeking. (Pragmatism, I'd guess).

Anyhow, that's it from me for now - back sometime later - if you can contain your excitement!  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2023, 12:19:17 AM
If some of the rumours going about about serious budgets cuts on Education are true, there no chance this pipedream gona get of the ground. Should used it to at the time to spend in the 6 county grounds and a 20/25k stadia for Antrim. Could actual put a decent pitch in Omagh, fired in a covered stand in Newry, Owenbeg, 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2023, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2023, 12:19:17 AM
If some of the rumours going about about serious budgets cuts on Education are true, there no chance this pipedream gona get of the ground. Should used it to at the time to spend in the 6 county grounds and a 20/25k stadia for Antrim. Could actual put a decent pitch in Omagh, fired in a covered stand in Newry, Owenbeg,

This is a thing in its own right. Even if it does not go ahead, it will not be spent on education or distributed around the place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on May 06, 2023, 08:42:34 AM
The lads in London going to foot the bill.

Still think it's too big and would worry it will be a bit of a white elephant but at least it looks like there is a possible end in sight.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-hit-the-jackpot-as-uk-funds-set-to-aid-149m-renovation-of-casement-park/a393710467.html

QuoteGAA hit the jackpot as UK funds set to aid €149m renovation of Casement Park
Keith Bailie
Today at 02:30
The long-awaited refurbishment work on Casement Park will start in 2024 and be completed by 2026, two years before the famous GAA ground is set to host Euro 2028 fixtures, according to the president of the Irish FA, Conrad Kirkwood

In an interview published in today's Belfast Telegraph, Kirkwood insists the UK government have given assurances to the Irish FA – whose 12,000-capacity Windsor Park is too small to host tournament games – over the timeframe.

Rebuilding the new-look 34,500-seater stadium is estimated to cost £130m (€149m), with most of the funding to come from London.

This effectively means that the GAA has hit the jackpot after years of struggling to get the project off the ground due mainly to objections and rising costs caused by the delay.


The cost is now estimated to be almost double the initial £75m cost that was initially to be split between the Northern Ireland executive and the GAA. The venue was closed in 2013, but the original concept for a 38,000-capacity ground had to be scaled down to 34,500 following local opposition.

News that the UK government is coming in with a major package is sure to be warmly welcomed by the GAA.

If the joint Euro 2028 bid between England, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales is successful, the GAA ground in west Belfast is likely to host four Euro 2028 games, including Northern Ireland's group fixtures – should Michael O'Neill's team qualify for the tournament.

Kirkwood said: "Our government partners assure us Casement Park will start in 2024 and finish within two years. It's important that we've a stadium in Northern Ireland that matches those in other countries. Northern Ireland's inclusion in Euro 2028 is a fundamental part of the bid, as it is a five-nation bid and all five nations must be involved."

While Northern Ireland supporters' clubs rejected the idea of Euro 2028 games being staged at Casement, stating "it is our view, and indeed our preference, that football tournaments should be hosted by football stadia", the IFA president insists securing the rights to host tournament games in Belfast would be a huge boost for the country.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Brendan on May 06, 2023, 08:49:41 AM
This Farce over tickets for the Ulster final shows it is needed even if it is full only once a year, many people going to miss out
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 06, 2023, 09:27:24 AM
Quote from: Brendan on May 06, 2023, 08:49:41 AM
This Farce over tickets for the Ulster final shows it is needed even if it is full only once a year, many people going to miss out
remains to be seen if that happens
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on May 06, 2023, 09:44:41 AM
Have to keep the bandwagon jumpers happy!
It is not a final without a fuss about tickets but rarely does anyone miss out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 06, 2023, 09:38:39 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 06, 2023, 09:44:41 AM
Have to keep the bandwagon jumpers happy!
It is not a final without a fuss about tickets but rarely does anyone miss out.

If they have reduced the capacity of Clones then somebody may indeed miss out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on May 06, 2023, 10:00:59 PM
Surprisingly quiet here considering the media reports are stating that our the UK are going to pay the whole heap for a new Casement Park.

Wonder if strings will be attached?

Interesting development all the same!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 06, 2023, 10:14:11 PM
Quote from: bannside on May 06, 2023, 10:00:59 PM
Wonder if strings will be attached?

It will have to be called the Sir Roger Casement park and there will be no hunger strike demonstrations
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardtole on May 06, 2023, 10:30:35 PM
I honestly think it's a deliberate retaliation over the "milk and no sugar" comment. The tories haven't forgotten that, politics is petty, and they will have no problem rubbing salt  slowly into wounds.

It's a 2 finger sign to the dup and nothing else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 07, 2023, 03:52:43 PM
Quote from: ardtole on May 06, 2023, 10:30:35 PM
I honestly think it's a deliberate retaliation over the "milk and no sugar" comment. The tories haven't forgotten that, politics is petty, and they will have no problem rubbing salt  slowly into wounds.

It's a 2 finger sign to the dup and nothing else.

I had completely forgot about this, thanks for the reminder  ;D

Derry club members are being told its unlikely their request will be fulfilled. Heard Ballinascreen got requests in for 1100 tickets.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2023, 04:13:10 PM
Well if there 13500 In for the Monaghan game and half were Derry, I could rightly presume a sixth of Derry support wasn't from the Screen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 07, 2023, 06:00:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 07, 2023, 03:52:43 PM
Quote from: ardtole on May 06, 2023, 10:30:35 PM
I honestly think it's a deliberate retaliation over the "milk and no sugar" comment. The tories haven't forgotten that, politics is petty, and they will have no problem rubbing salt  slowly into wounds.

It's a 2 finger sign to the dup and nothing else.

I had completely forgot about this, thanks for the reminder  ;D

Derry club members are being told its unlikely their request will be fulfilled. Heard Ballinascreen got requests in for 1100 tickets.
Madness altogether. Too late for Croker? Good few clubs in Armagh in similar positions
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 07, 2023, 06:49:58 PM
The point is that you could give each club 500 tickets and cover everyone with a case for a ticket in that club, that's 10,000 per county. Then an allocation to people attending multiple county games, but this overlaps with the above, so a few thousand would do that. It is unfortunate that the capacity of the ground has been reduced, but a better ticket distribution system would accommodate it all the same.

With the Leinster final on next week they were never going to move to Croker and if you moved to Croker there would a loud whine about the cost of diesel or whatever.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 09, 2023, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.
You must have the big connections ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on May 09, 2023, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

It's not what you know its who you know!
Though aren't you in business? Would explain you being able to get tickets handy enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2023, 11:13:19 AM
The Season ticket pays off here, avoiding any angst about tickets. Either Derry or Armagh is going to end up in a group with Tyrone after this game and there could be great pressure on tickets for that game also.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on May 09, 2023, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 17, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
Numbers wise 3 of the biggest clubs in Ulster are in greater Belfast. Carryduff, Glengormley and Bredagh. All 3 very much grown by outsiders moving and settling in Belfast. I'd agree with the last post on those people going to a new Casement to support their home county.

Two of those clubs are Down clubs, and will not be getting much access once built unless Down hurlers and footballers are playing there.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 09, 2023, 12:49:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 09, 2023, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

It's not what you know its who you know!
Though aren't you in business? Would explain you being able to get tickets handy enough.

I got two through the club and then a friend got me another one.
Reading the Derry Armagh final thread we can see plain as day why we need a modern stadium to host our games in the North. Children on the hill in Clones isn't good for anyone. The place is a f**king dump.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

Tickets for The  covid  All Ireland  that had no spectators?  How  did you  manage that? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 09, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

Tickets for The  covid  All Ireland  that had no spectators?  How  did you  manage that?

The reduced capacity one with Tyrone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on May 09, 2023, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

Tickets for The  covid  All Ireland  that had no spectators?  How  did you  manage that?

The reduced capacity one with Tyrone.

The one that was meant to be 40k or something like that. It looked like there was at least 70k on the day!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 09, 2023, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 09, 2023, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

Tickets for The  covid  All Ireland  that had no spectators?  How  did you  manage that?

The reduced capacity one with Tyrone.

The one that was meant to be 40k or something like that. It looked like there was at least 70k on the day!

There were more than 40k that's for sure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 09, 2023, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

Tickets for The  covid  All Ireland  that had no spectators?  How  did you  manage that?

The reduced capacity one with Tyrone.

The one that was meant to be 40k or something like that. It looked like there was at least 70k on the day!

That's those  crafty  Tyrone hoors for ya  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on May 09, 2023, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 09, 2023, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 09, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 09, 2023, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 08, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2023, 12:07:50 PM
If there was a better stadium available other than Clones it is realistic to think that a lot more neutrals would go. I would probably go to Ulster Finals with the family if the facilities were better.

Most of the time getting tickets to a final will always be an issue for neutrals - unless you have big connections. Even if Casement was up and running it still wouldn't fulfill the demand for this weekend.   Casement would just be a more pleasurable experience for those of us that might be lucky enough to get tickets for Sunday.

I have never wanted to go to a game and not get a ticket ever. Even the Covid All Ireland I got tickets handy for all the family.

Tickets(//) for The  covid  All Ireland  that had no spectators?  How  did you  manage that?

The reduced capacity one with Tyrone.

The one that was meant to be 40k or something like that. It looked like there was at least 70k on the day!

That's those  crafty  Tyrone hoors for ya  ;D
We saved all our tickets from the covid cancelled semi-final.;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 15, 2023, 04:23:12 PM
Jesus after experiencing Clones for the last 2 matches, it just brings home the need to build the new Casement Park as soon as possible
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Fuzzman on May 15, 2023, 04:56:28 PM
What was the parking and traffic like in Clones?

From other years we always waited an hour in the pub before trying to leave.

Was wondering could they "TRY" to have some sort of system where depending on where you park they assign you a time to come back to your car so that not everyone was trying to get out at the same time.
Obviously not everyone would follow it but lets say cars parked the furthest away get to leave first and maybe every 15 mins another departure slot for the next lot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 15, 2023, 04:57:30 PM
It wasn't too bad from what I saw, some crowd on the street though and good luck trying to gwt into a pub.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on May 15, 2023, 05:16:46 PM
Clones stadium facilities are so poor but not surprising considering that bar the stop nets and plastic seats installed, no investment has been made there for 30 years.
Traffic wasnt bad yesterday. I did walk considerable distance to the town, but no hassle getting to clones (1.30pm) or leaving (straight after finish).
The atmosphere yesterday though was fantastic and the town was hopping. You don't see that atmosphere anywhere else in ulster. I was in thurles before for a hurling final and they have something similar.
Itll be great to see a new final stadium in casement, but never enjoyed the experience around that ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on May 15, 2023, 05:31:33 PM
Clones is a bit like Cavan's 5 all Irelands. Linked to the early decades of Northern Ireland. The GAA wanted a ground to host the Ulster Final
that it could control so Co Monaghan won the gig. There's no need for such an arrangement any longer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 15, 2023, 06:02:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2023, 05:31:33 PM
Clones is a bit like Cavan's 5 all Irelands. Linked to the early decades of Northern Ireland. The GAA wanted a ground to host the Ulster Final
that it could control so Co Monaghan won the gig. There's no need for such an arrangement any longer.

There is a some truth to that. Do you really want to drive through Lisburn with flags on your car and have games where the pubs are not open on Sundays? The second problem has been removed, not sure about the first.
However, Clones was a important rail junction and quite a logical place for a central venue when it was first developed, especially in a period when big games often involved a well supported Cavan.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 15, 2023, 07:45:45 PM
Clones is important and should be preserved to show us what the entire country would look like if it was under a nuclear attack.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 09:55:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2023, 05:31:33 PM
Clones is a bit like Cavan's 5 all Irelands. Linked to the early decades of Northern Ireland. The GAA wanted a ground to host the Ulster Final
that it could control so Co Monaghan won the gig. There's no need for such an arrangement any longer.

No VAT on the gate money in the south, or that used to be the case.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 09:59:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 09:55:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2023, 05:31:33 PM
Clones is a bit like Cavan's 5 all Irelands. Linked to the early decades of Northern Ireland. The GAA wanted a ground to host the Ulster Final
that it could control so Co Monaghan won the gig. There's no need for such an arrangement any longer.

No VAT on the gate money in the south, or that used to be the case.

Clones predates VAT.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 16, 2023, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 09:59:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 09:55:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2023, 05:31:33 PM
Clones is a bit like Cavan's 5 all Irelands. Linked to the early decades of Northern Ireland. The GAA wanted a ground to host the Ulster Final
that it could control so Co Monaghan won the gig. There's no need for such an arrangement any longer.

No VAT on the gate money in the south, or that used to be the case.

Clones predates VAT.

And sanitation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Watcher Pat on May 16, 2023, 10:06:57 AM
Queue for the toilet was mental. One fella actually said "any more than 3 shakes its a w**k" Absolute brutal facilities..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 16, 2023, 11:05:46 AM
Ulster GAA needs to either find the funding from somewhere for Casement or invest serious money into Clones. I get the argument around tradition etc that goes around Clones and it is a tough one to argue against but the simple fact is things change and Clones is not fit to host these crowds any more.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 16, 2023, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 16, 2023, 11:05:46 AM
Ulster GAA needs to either find the funding from somewhere for Casement or invest serious money into Clones. I get the argument around tradition etc that goes around Clones and it is a tough one to argue against but the simple fact is things change and Clones is not fit to host these crowds any more.
the town itself needs money spent on it, amount of derelict buildings with the paint peeling off them is a joke. I wonder how much it would take to get Clones to be a proper 35k plus stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 15, 2023, 04:56:28 PM
What was the parking and traffic like in Clones?

From other years we always waited an hour in the pub before trying to leave.

Was wondering could they "TRY" to have some sort of system where depending on where you park they assign you a time to come back to your car so that not everyone was trying to get out at the same time.
Obviously not everyone would follow it but lets say cars parked the furthest away get to leave first and maybe every 15 mins another departure slot for the next lot.

The traffic and parking was absolutely brutal for anyone who approached Clones from Fivemile town....

Small country roads....

Parking on one side eventually led to parking on both sides, for miles....

Combine this with walking pedestrians and it was a serious worry navigating through it all....an absolute danger...

A few fields were open on the outskirts of the town to facilitate parking but it took hours to get there...

On the way home and only for 2 good souls (a man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Estimator on May 16, 2023, 12:23:15 PM
Parked approx 1.7miles (according to google maps) from the ground on the Lacky Rd, which at various stages on the walk in and out was at an absolute standstill. God help some of the local traffic that got caught up in that, especially those that were trying to go against the grain.
Those who'd had parked in the fields, or on the roadside closest to Clones were in for a long sit as the sideroads and fields beyond were being emptied out. And if you were heading in the direction of Fivemiletown, you didn't stand a chance. Took a couple of scenic country roads to avoid it and it made a massive difference in travel times.  In fairness, everyone on the way out seemed in decent form and there was no arguments about letting cars out etc. But 100s of people walking on a narrow country road with vehicles all around isnt the best.

As for the facilities within the place, they have always been horrendous. I was in the O'Duffy terrace for the Ulster Final in 1993 and it hasn't changed one bit since then.  For the crowd that they have packed in there, the amount of toilets is shocking, though at least they sorted the plumbing, at last years final you had to wade through piss just to make it to the overflowing trough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on May 16, 2023, 12:27:08 PM
Quote from: Estimator on May 16, 2023, 12:23:15 PM
Parked approx 1.7miles (according to google maps) from the ground on the Lacky Rd, which at various stages on the walk in and out was at an absolute standstill. God help some of the local traffic that got caught up in that, especially those that were trying to go against the grain.
Those who'd had parked in the fields, or on the roadside closest to Clones were in for a long sit as the sideroads and fields beyond were being emptied out. And if you were heading in the direction of Fivemiletown, you didn't stand a chance. Took a couple of scenic country roads to avoid it and it made a massive difference in travel times.  In fairness, everyone on the way out seemed in decent form and there was no arguments about letting cars out etc. But 100s of people walking on a narrow country road with vehicles all around isnt the best.

As for the facilities within the place, they have always been horrendous. I was in the O'Duffy terrace for the Ulster Final in 1993 and it hasn't changed one bit since then.  For the crowd that they have packed in there, the amount of toilets is shocking, though at least they sorted the plumbing, at last years final you had to wade through piss just to make it to the overflowing trough.
You didn't see me then, I'd a seriously thick head on me! Luckily traffic wasn't too bad where i was so I didn't get any more annoyed lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 12:28:43 PM
Quote from: Estimator on May 16, 2023, 12:23:15 PM
Parked approx 1.7miles (according to google maps) from the ground on the Lacky Rd, which at various stages on the walk in and out was at an absolute standstill. God help some of the local traffic that got caught up in that, especially those that were trying to go against the grain.
Those who'd had parked in the fields, or on the roadside closest to Clones were in for a long sit as the sideroads and fields beyond were being emptied out. And if you were heading in the direction of Fivemiletown, you didn't stand a chance. Took a couple of scenic country roads to avoid it and it made a massive difference in travel times.  In fairness, everyone on the way out seemed in decent form and there was no arguments about letting cars out etc. But 100s of people walking on a narrow country road with vehicles all around isnt the best.

As for the facilities within the place, they have always been horrendous. I was in the O'Duffy terrace for the Ulster Final in 1993 and it hasn't changed one bit since then.  For the crowd that they have packed in there, the amount of toilets is shocking, though at least they sorted the plumbing, at last years final you had to wade through piss just to make it to the overflowing trough.
The quintessential GAA experience . I have had the pleasure in Thurles, Castlebar and Limerick
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

There was 1 guy collecting the money as you entered the field....

Given the time this took....it obviously helped generate the miles of queue....

Nowhere to be seen on return to the car......had cleared off and it was a 'free for all' to get out...only for the goodness of the 2 people as mentioned earlier....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 16, 2023, 11:05:46 AM
Ulster GAA needs to either find the funding from somewhere for Casement or invest serious money into Clones. I get the argument around tradition etc that goes around Clones and it is a tough one to argue against but the simple fact is things change and Clones is not fit to host these crowds any more.
I think the GAA funds around 10m in grants per year that would cover stadium projects. Clones would probably be multi year
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on May 16, 2023, 12:54:02 PM
I parked at the clones sign on the grass from five mile town about 200 yards from the ground. Didn't go on the pitch in the end and went straight to car. Think we timed it just about ok. Crawled a walking pace in a crowd of people for the guts of three miles though before it cleared. Some cars were parked facing into clones too I have no idea how that faired out. Took two hours exactly to get back to south derry. Friend of mine went on the pitch and didn't get home to 11. He was parked beside me
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonian on May 16, 2023, 01:36:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

You'd hope there's a bit of planning ahead on the parking - it was never the easiest to get parked at but never that bad either. Traffic wise it wasn't much different than any morning heading into Belfast so it should be ok.

The semi final was the first time I was in Clones for a big game since having kids and it's a kip. The weather on the day didn't help granted but it's so dated. If you're between 16 and 30 it's a good session but the GAA needs more than that. Has all the GAA development money went elsewhere since the 90s? Heading out the back of the east terrace and it was in gutters. A few load of bitmac doesn't cost that much.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2023, 01:56:07 PM
Was at the balmoral show the other day.

If folks are going to advocate for transport as the principal reason for Casement over Clones, then you'd have to say, the Maze over Casement makes far more sense.

- Greenfield site is cheaper to develop on
- Loads of parking
- Right on the motorway
- No planning issues
- No/Less issues around noise pollution for concerts

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on May 16, 2023, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2023, 01:56:07 PM
Was at the balmoral show the other day.

If folks are going to advocate for transport as the principal reason for Casement over Clones, then you'd have to say, the Maze over Casement makes far more sense.

- Greenfield site is cheaper to develop on
- Loads of parking
- Right on the motorway
- No planning issues
- No/Less issues around noise pollution for concerts

It would but that is a not going to be a runner and let's not get into that argument again. If it's a green field site you are after instead of Clones then the Maze site isn't it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on May 16, 2023, 02:33:46 PM
I was pleasantly surprised with traffic going to Monaghan after the game.  Obviously i didnt hang around on the pitch for too long. The guards were not letting traffic come into the town from about 2 miles out and we could exit on the 2 lanes. Directed through Monaghan town too.  I'd a far worse experience for the Down game.

I dont have good memories of traffic at Casement on big days.  Parking up on the M1.  I'm sure it will continue to have it's challenges.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on May 16, 2023, 03:02:15 PM
I have never had to park more than 200 yards from Casement Park when going to a match there.

There are also other routes that can be used apart from the two motorways. I've never had more than about fifteen minutes added to my journey by coming down Hannahstown or the Glen Road.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: smort on May 16, 2023, 03:08:15 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 16, 2023, 02:33:46 PM
I was pleasantly surprised with traffic going to Monaghan after the game.  Obviously i didnt hang around on the pitch for too long. The guards were not letting traffic come into the town from about 2 miles out and we could exit on the 2 lanes. Directed through Monaghan town too.  I'd a far worse experience for the Down game.

I dont have good memories of traffic at Casement on big days.  Parking up on the M1.  I'm sure it will continue to have it's challenges.

I thought I remembered us parking on the motorway hard shoulder when I was a nipper. Also remember being behind the goals at the Andersonstown Rd end and seeing the M1 at a standstill

Traffic and parking will definitely need addressing
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: smort on May 16, 2023, 03:10:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Think Windsor and Kingspan only hold around 18,000. A lot more will be attending casement, and a lot more who rely on cars
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonian on May 16, 2023, 03:20:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

I think that's something that the GAA match aren't used to. I've took the lads to the Kingspan a few times and the park and rides are so handy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nanderson on May 16, 2023, 03:22:01 PM
I agree that park and ride systems would be a good option for casement. you could have them filtering people from say sprucefield in south belfast, forestside for anyone in east for example. could also run them to and from the bus and train stations with special services put on for match day goers where you could show your match ticket and get a discount or something like that to encourage people to use public transport where possible. If you look at the big stadiums in the world a lot of them dont have any car parking spaces due to no space to expand so they heavily rely on a good public transport network to filter people back out of the area
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2023, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 16, 2023, 02:03:33 PM
It would but that is a not going to be a runner and let's not get into that argument again. If it's a green field site you are after instead of Clones then the Maze site isn't it.

IMO, with the project being a complete clusterf__k to date - I'd be inclined to get relegate the existing project team to bystanders for opinion only and have a new team in charge and essentially restart it with nothing off the table.

First thing would be scoping out exactly how palatable the government would be to the funds going toward a new/renovated stadium that isn't Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: smort on May 16, 2023, 03:10:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Think Windsor and Kingspan only hold around 18,000. A lot more will be attending casement, and a lot more who rely on cars

Yes but the point I'm making is that Belfast and the authorities have experience of managing crowds. It has a better infrastructure than Clones. Motorways, Buses, Trains. Clones has fields and single carriageways.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Kingspan and Windsor are smaller and more of their attendance comes from Belfast itself. Clones manages too.
All these trains and buses will be great if they actually materialise. Are there special trains for games at Windsor?
There are few extra trains or buses to Croke Park nor do Translink put on buses to Clones. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:01:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Kingspan and Windsor are smaller and more of their attendance comes from Belfast itself. Clones manages too.
All these trains and buses will be great if they actually materialise. Are there special trains for games at Windsor?
There are few extra trains or buses to Croke Park nor do Translink put on buses to Clones.

Where is closest train station to Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on May 16, 2023, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:01:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Kingspan and Windsor are smaller and more of their attendance comes from Belfast itself. Clones manages too.
All these trains and buses will be great if they actually materialise. Are there special trains for games at Windsor?
There are few extra trains or buses to Croke Park nor do Translink put on buses to Clones.

Where is closest train station to Casement?

Balmoral
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 16, 2023, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:01:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Kingspan and Windsor are smaller and more of their attendance comes from Belfast itself. Clones manages too.
All these trains and buses will be great if they actually materialise. Are there special trains for games at Windsor?
There are few extra trains or buses to Croke Park nor do Translink put on buses to Clones.

Where is closest train station to Casement?

Balmoral

Is that walking/shuttle distance?

I'm sure for big game, Translink will put on shuttle buses etc. from various park 'n rides on the outskirts of the city.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:05:20 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 16, 2023, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:01:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Kingspan and Windsor are smaller and more of their attendance comes from Belfast itself. Clones manages too.
All these trains and buses will be great if they actually materialise. Are there special trains for games at Windsor?
There are few extra trains or buses to Croke Park nor do Translink put on buses to Clones.

Where is closest train station to Casement?

Balmoral

Is that walking/shuttle distance?

I'm sure for big game, Translink will put on shuttle buses etc. from various park 'n rides on the outskirts of the city.

Is there not a park and ride out at Sprucefield where the buses can use the hard shoulder for a straight run into the city?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on May 16, 2023, 04:11:01 PM
Balmoral and Finaghy train stations are about a 20 minute walk to Casement. Plenty of routes in and out of Casement if you avoid the motorway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on May 16, 2023, 05:09:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2023, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: OakLeaf on May 16, 2023, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on May 16, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
On the way home and only for 2 good souls (and man and a women) directing traffic both on the road and for vehicles trying to leave one of the fields we'd still be there!

I was in the same field as you. Those pair that were directing traffic were a godsend! The lads that were supposed to be stewarding just upped and left. It wasn't too bad after the Lacky Road started moving (we headed back over in the direction of the Roslea Road), but that was an hour and 20 minutes after we arrived back at the car :(

Looking forward to Casement being built.

Casement is not the nirvana people think, you cannot park 10,000+ cars near there either.

Agree!

Parking in and around Casement was never easy!

You have two supermarkets nearby with plenty parking on Sundays, you have train station and regular bus services, the motorway is on the door step of the pitch. Yes there are no fields to park on wet days, or no major roads leading into it,  pathetic toilet facilities or covered stands, I get that ;D

I'm sure Casement like any city based stadium will have problems but it seems to work in hundreds of football grounds in the UK strangely enough

The supermarkets will block entry to their carparks on match days. There is one train per hour carrying perhaps 400 people on Sunday. The motorway is OK once you get on to it, but you could be going to Newcastle some cúnt in Lisburn might just leave a package on a flyover and close the whole thing. 

There is no doubt that covered stands are definitely an improvement and the jacks will be better, there might even be wi-fi.  But if Casement were not built these would be in Clones too.

There are stadia in other places, but Casement is relatively far from Belfast city centre. The city centre commercial car parks are over an hour away on foot, in contrast in Croke Park there are 3 or 4 big car parks within 20 minutes and a shed load of car parks within 30 minutes walk.

There'll be trains and park and ride buses. It will be better served by public transport. Clones has none of this.
There will be a match day plan in place as well involving the PSNI and others.
Other Stadia in Belfast manage, Kingspan and Windsor.

Kingspan and Windsor are smaller and more of their attendance comes from Belfast itself. Clones manages too.
All these trains and buses will be great if they actually materialise. Are there special trains for games at Windsor?
There are few extra trains or buses to Croke Park nor do Translink put on buses to Clones.

They actually did for Sunday for derry ones anyway
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 05:19:49 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 16, 2023, 05:09:53 PM
They actually did for Sunday for derry ones anyway

Perhaps Casement, if it ever opens, will signal a new era of public authorites trying to help people get there. I remain skeptical about this.
In a perfect world thety would build a passage under the M1 and have trains going back and forth to Balmoral with a walkway in between, but I don't believe they will do any of this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on May 16, 2023, 05:30:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 05:19:49 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 16, 2023, 05:09:53 PM
They actually did for Sunday for derry ones anyway

Perhaps Casement, if it ever opens, will signal a new era of public authorites trying to help people get there. I remain skeptical about this.
In a perfect world thety would build a passage under the M1 and have trains going back and forth to Balmoral with a walkway in between, but I don't believe they will do any of this.
I would have thought buses would be more likely, as trains don't service the majority of the place anyway. Park and ride shuttle buses are the way forward I think.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 17, 2023, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.

If you weren't a teacher and from Armagh or Antrim or where ever I think we could be life long friends.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.

They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 17, 2023, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.

They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.

IF this gets built a traffic management plan for big events will have to be submitted as part of the overall scheme.

Any number of park and ride car parks on the edges of Belfast which could be utilised.
It is right on a Glider route. Along with other public transport options.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.
They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.
Anyone who commutes into and out of Belfast  knows that even the most minor of collisions or even just a breakdown in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong conditions can cause the the most drastic tailbacks right across the city. So unless the Westlink is overhauled and York St interchange is built, nothing will change, Casement or no Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 02:13:48 PM
The A5 and Casement discussions both started 13-14 years ago. Why were they both delayed? Is this a planinng or finance or governance issue? Does it reflect how things are done in the North or are there specific reasons relating to these 2 ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.

They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.

I haven't seen it, but SURELY a feasible traffic management plan forms part of the planning application for this scale of a project?

There's no way they would have got planning without it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on May 17, 2023, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 02:13:48 PM
The A5 and Casement discussions both started 13-14 years ago. Why were they both delayed? Is this a planinng or finance or governance issue? Does it reflect how things are done in the North or are there specific reasons relating to these 2 ?

Ulster GAA are far from squeaky clean on the Casement farrago and I think a few curly haired Shinners didn't help along the way, not by delaying it put trying to push it through without due process and getting caught out.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 17, 2023, 02:33:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 02:13:48 PM
The A5 and Casement discussions both started 13-14 years ago. Why were they both delayed? Is this a planinng or finance or governance issue? Does it reflect how things are done in the North or are there specific reasons relating to these 2 ?

Lots of complex issues but we have a number of gobshites in key positions between Ulster GAA, Government and the Civil Service. Combined they are a formidable force.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.
They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.
Anyone who commutes into and out of Belfast  knows that even the most minor of collisions or even just a breakdown in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong conditions can cause the the most drastic tailbacks right across the city. So unless the Westlink is overhauled and York St interchange is built, nothing will change, Casement or no Casement.

You do know there are worse with regards to traffic/road/rail networks in the UK hosting games of a bigger volume than Casement on a weekly bases?

We could spend a 1000 pages on looking at why it shouldnt be there and we could spend a 1000 pages on why it shouldnt be somewhere else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 17, 2023, 03:17:24 PM
I've tried to keep coming back to this fact on this thread but somehow it keeps being missed.

The money is for Casement, there is no remit at this stage to go back and say no Casement doesn't suit any more, we will spend it elsewhere or start a new project.

So it is either build Casement and work out the issues or have no stadium. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonian on May 17, 2023, 03:19:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.
They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.
Anyone who commutes into and out of Belfast  knows that even the most minor of collisions or even just a breakdown in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong conditions can cause the the most drastic tailbacks right across the city. So unless the Westlink is overhauled and York St interchange is built, nothing will change, Casement or no Casement.

You do know there are worse with regards to traffic/road/rail networks in the UK hosting games of a bigger volume than Casement on a weekly bases?

We could spend a 1000 pages on looking at why it shouldnt be there and we could spend a 1000 pages on why it shouldnt be somewhere else.

It's not a big issue in the long run. Set it up with trains and park & rides - buses and get the black taxis involved too. I think match goers will change attitudes pretty quickly if it gets you in and out in decent time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on May 17, 2023, 04:31:24 PM
Can someone please explain to me why people think that a stadium that previously hosted 40k crowds when there was less infrastructure will struggle to cope with a 34k crowd once a year . It has two train stations within a 20 minute walk, and is close to arterial routes and a major hospital . It's less than an hour from most major towns in ulster and just over an hour from Derry and Dublin.
If the second largest city in Ireland can't have a stadium hosting more than 30k , there's something wrong . Many cities with smaller populations and infrastructure have large stadiums. Glasgow though a larger city , has 3 massive stadiums eg  60k plus every other week at Celtic Park at a much more challenging location .
Most people appreciate the concerns of local residents but the infrastructure argument makes little sense to me. The naysayers with a political agenda have been determined to block it from the start, but they are running out of road, literally .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 05:19:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.
They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.
Anyone who commutes into and out of Belfast  knows that even the most minor of collisions or even just a breakdown in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong conditions can cause the the most drastic tailbacks right across the city. So unless the Westlink is overhauled and York St interchange is built, nothing will change, Casement or no Casement.

You do know there are worse with regards to traffic/road/rail networks in the UK hosting games of a bigger volume than Casement on a weekly bases?

We could spend a 1000 pages on looking at why it shouldnt be there and we could spend a 1000 pages on why it shouldnt be somewhere else.
I don't know what point you're trying to make, I want Casement built ASAP - traffic congestion is so bad it's almost irrelevant in my view. Belfast is already one of the worst cities when it comes to traffic congestion. One report ranks it as 50th in the world, another has it as 5th in the UK and one even has it at 2nd.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 05:51:57 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 05:19:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 17, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on May 17, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
You wouldn't want to be in an emergency to get to the Royal Hospital on a match day with 34k ppl trying to get there. But as someone has said, plenty of places in England manage to do it on a weekly basis. GAA people are too used to taking the car to places and 'thrownin her' up on the curb and dandering 5 mins to the game. Getting on the train to Casement, parking in City Centre and getting a bus, parking at the playing fields in Boucher etc. I am sure once Casement is built and after a few years of teething problems it'll all be straight forward. Not having a first class stadium in the 2nd biggest city in Ireland is embarrassing.
They need a plan before it opens, not several instances of chaos before they act.
Anyone who commutes into and out of Belfast  knows that even the most minor of collisions or even just a breakdown in the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong conditions can cause the the most drastic tailbacks right across the city. So unless the Westlink is overhauled and York St interchange is built, nothing will change, Casement or no Casement.

You do know there are worse with regards to traffic/road/rail networks in the UK hosting games of a bigger volume than Casement on a weekly bases?

We could spend a 1000 pages on looking at why it shouldnt be there and we could spend a 1000 pages on why it shouldnt be somewhere else.
I don't know what point you're trying to make, I want Casement built ASAP - traffic congestion is so bad it's almost irrelevant in my view. Belfast is already one of the worst cities when it comes to traffic congestion. One report ranks it as 50th in the world, another has it as 5th in the UK and one even has it at 2nd.

THis started when people implied that getting parked at Casement would be a dawdle compared to Clones and I said that it wouldn't be a nirvana either, a small train once an hour is not going to make much difference. The seat in Casement will be much better when you get to it and of course it should be built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on May 17, 2023, 06:12:24 PM
Serious sense of entitlement - the nowadays people.  People who leave a game 10 mins early to "beat the traffic".  Wtf?

It's all about the fastness of society nowadays. The fast food restaurants. We need everything now now now.

If going to Clones, you'll be stuck in traffic, big deal. For an hour - take tea and a sandwich. Who cares if you have to wait an hour. Get over it.  You know the score.

Go to The Odessey - stuck in the car park for an hour afterwards. Who cares? Deal with it.

As I say, a sense of entitlement. If annoyed by it, stay at home and give the ticket to someone else ffs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2023, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 17, 2023, 03:17:24 PM
I've tried to keep coming back to this fact on this thread but somehow it keeps being missed.

The money is for Casement, there is no remit at this stage to go back and say no Casement doesn't suit any more, we will spend it elsewhere or start a new project.

So it is either build Casement and work out the issues or have no stadium. Simple as that.

Correct. And the cost is irrelevant. Who cares if it costs 500m? The money will only be spunked on something else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2023, 05:20:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2023, 01:59:44 PM
Correct. And the cost is irrelevant. Who cares if it costs 500m? The money will only be spunked on something else.

Aye thats true.

Imagine if it were spent on a new wing on the RVH, or replacing a few schools that are falling apart at the seams.

That'd be just stupid.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on May 18, 2023, 08:38:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2023, 05:20:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2023, 01:59:44 PM
Correct. And the cost is irrelevant. Who cares if it costs 500m? The money will only be spunked on something else.

Aye thats true.

Imagine if it were spent on a new wing on the RVH, or replacing a few schools that are falling apart at the seams.

That'd be just stupid.
The money for Casement is ring fenced. If it's not spent on Casement I'll go back into the pot and NI might not get a sniff of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.

Clones had lines to Enniskillen, Cavan, Armagh/Portadown and Dundalk (for Monaghan and South Armagh folk).
The line from Dundalk remained open for goods after regular passenger services stopped. My Da was on a special to the 1958 or perhaps 1959 Ulster final which was the last passenger train to run.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: smelmoth on May 18, 2023, 08:52:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.

Clones had lines to Enniskillen, Cavan, Armagh/Portadown and Dundalk (for Monaghan and South Armagh folk).
The line from Dundalk remained open for goods after regular passenger services stopped. My Da was on a special to the 1958 or perhaps 1959 Ulster final which was the last passenger train to run.

How did he get home?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 18, 2023, 08:52:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.

Clones had lines to Enniskillen, Cavan, Armagh/Portadown and Dundalk (for Monaghan and South Armagh folk).
The line from Dundalk remained open for goods after regular passenger services stopped. My Da was on a special to the 1958 or perhaps 1959 Ulster final which was the last passenger train to run.

How did he get home?

Very good. On the same train, of course, sure where could it go only back the same way since the hoors in Fermanagh had lifted the line.

ANd only 4/6 from Cullaville

(https://i.ibb.co/MhFTjk3/clonestrain.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2023, 01:21:47 PM
Rumour has it that Turkey has withdrawn, so the 2028 soccer thing will come here. Time to get the diggers into Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on July 28, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0728/1397010-joint-euro-2028-bid-strengthened-as-turkey-look-to-2032/

Turkey hasn't withdrawn but the odds would look to be massively likely now.

Previously the state of play was the UK/Ireland bid for 2028, Italy for 2032 and Turkey for either 2028 or 2032.

The fact that Turkey have now submitted a joint bid for 2032 means it looks very very likely it will be UK/Ireland for 2028 and the joint bid for 2032.

Looks like a Lotto win for the GAA in terms of funding Casement.

QuoteIreland and the UK's chances of hosting Euro 2028 appear to have improved significantly after UEFA confirmed Turkey and Italy had requested to merge their bids for Euro 2032.

It is understood Turkey have not withdrawn their bid to host Euro 2028, so remain a rival to the five-nation bid involving England, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on July 29, 2023, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.
Based on the new rail report the train to Clones would carry on through Cavan, Mullingar, Athlone, Athenry to Galway.
That would have covered a fair number of Armaghs games this year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on August 01, 2023, 01:34:30 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 28, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0728/1397010-joint-euro-2028-bid-strengthened-as-turkey-look-to-2032/

Turkey hasn't withdrawn but the odds would look to be massively likely now.

Previously the state of play was the UK/Ireland bid for 2028, Italy for 2032 and Turkey for either 2028 or 2032.

The fact that Turkey have now submitted a joint bid for 2032 means it looks very very likely it will be UK/Ireland for 2028 and the joint bid for 2032.

Looks like a Lotto win for the GAA in terms of funding Casement.

QuoteIreland and the UK's chances of hosting Euro 2028 appear to have improved significantly after UEFA confirmed Turkey and Italy had requested to merge their bids for Euro 2032.

It is understood Turkey have not withdrawn their bid to host Euro 2028, so remain a rival to the five-nation bid involving England, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

An unopposed run means they don't need votes. I can see the IFA being thrown overboard as they bring absolutely nothing to the party. Why put Whitehall on the hook when there are 20 English cities who could host at zero cost?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2023, 11:08:07 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 01, 2023, 01:34:30 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 28, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0728/1397010-joint-euro-2028-bid-strengthened-as-turkey-look-to-2032/

Turkey hasn't withdrawn but the odds would look to be massively likely now.

Previously the state of play was the UK/Ireland bid for 2028, Italy for 2032 and Turkey for either 2028 or 2032.

The fact that Turkey have now submitted a joint bid for 2032 means it looks very very likely it will be UK/Ireland for 2028 and the joint bid for 2032.

Looks like a Lotto win for the GAA in terms of funding Casement.

QuoteIreland and the UK's chances of hosting Euro 2028 appear to have improved significantly after UEFA confirmed Turkey and Italy had requested to merge their bids for Euro 2032.

It is understood Turkey have not withdrawn their bid to host Euro 2028, so remain a rival to the five-nation bid involving England, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

An unopposed run means they don't need votes. I can see the IFA being thrown overboard as they bring absolutely nothing to the party. Why put Whitehall on the hook when there are 20 English cities who could host at zero cost?

They are obliged to fund Casement anyway, the additional money is for some modifications to it. I expect that Whitehall will spend some money on this tournament, some work on grounds, some work on transport etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on August 01, 2023, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 01, 2023, 01:34:30 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 28, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0728/1397010-joint-euro-2028-bid-strengthened-as-turkey-look-to-2032/

Turkey hasn't withdrawn but the odds would look to be massively likely now.

Previously the state of play was the UK/Ireland bid for 2028, Italy for 2032 and Turkey for either 2028 or 2032.

The fact that Turkey have now submitted a joint bid for 2032 means it looks very very likely it will be UK/Ireland for 2028 and the joint bid for 2032.

Looks like a Lotto win for the GAA in terms of funding Casement.

QuoteIreland and the UK's chances of hosting Euro 2028 appear to have improved significantly after UEFA confirmed Turkey and Italy had requested to merge their bids for Euro 2032.

It is understood Turkey have not withdrawn their bid to host Euro 2028, so remain a rival to the five-nation bid involving England, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

An unopposed run means they don't need votes. I can see the IFA being thrown overboard as they bring absolutely nothing to the party. Why put Whitehall on the hook when there are 20 English cities who could host at zero cost?

If they get the tournament they'll build it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on August 02, 2023, 10:55:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 01, 2023, 11:22:04 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 01, 2023, 01:34:30 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 28, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/0728/1397010-joint-euro-2028-bid-strengthened-as-turkey-look-to-2032/

Turkey hasn't withdrawn but the odds would look to be massively likely now.

Previously the state of play was the UK/Ireland bid for 2028, Italy for 2032 and Turkey for either 2028 or 2032.

The fact that Turkey have now submitted a joint bid for 2032 means it looks very very likely it will be UK/Ireland for 2028 and the joint bid for 2032.

Looks like a Lotto win for the GAA in terms of funding Casement.

QuoteIreland and the UK's chances of hosting Euro 2028 appear to have improved significantly after UEFA confirmed Turkey and Italy had requested to merge their bids for Euro 2032.

It is understood Turkey have not withdrawn their bid to host Euro 2028, so remain a rival to the five-nation bid involving England, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

An unopposed run means they don't need votes. I can see the IFA being thrown overboard as they bring absolutely nothing to the party. Why put Whitehall on the hook when there are 20 English cities who could host at zero cost?

If they get the tournament they'll build it.

Maybe. But the unopposed bit is important. The arithmetic has changed. The Nigels don't need Ireland anymore to market this. Nothing stopping it becoming a British only bid and ditching Dublin and Belfast - automatic qualification and there are 20 English cities that bring more to the party than Belfast,at no cost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on August 02, 2023, 11:13:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 18, 2023, 08:52:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.

Clones had lines to Enniskillen, Cavan, Armagh/Portadown and Dundalk (for Monaghan and South Armagh folk).
The line from Dundalk remained open for goods after regular passenger services stopped. My Da was on a special to the 1958 or perhaps 1959 Ulster final which was the last passenger train to run.

How did he get home?

Very good. On the same train, of course, sure where could it go only back the same way since the hoors in Fermanagh had lifted the line.

ANd only 4/6 from Cullaville

(https://i.ibb.co/MhFTjk3/clonestrain.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

Emmm, the Brits call it Cullaville, and the Irish call it Culloville.

So what does that make you? lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: restorepride on August 02, 2023, 11:26:31 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 02, 2023, 11:13:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 18, 2023, 08:52:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2023, 08:50:02 PM
Quote from: markl121 on May 18, 2023, 08:47:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:15:04 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 17, 2023, 09:11:03 PM
Bring back  the railway vline to Clones.  Now , that would make  an enjoyable Ulster final day. Nobody   would care about  the roads  or parking then

It could happen! ;D

Would that be a cross border railway route? Who'd pay for that? Would there be much objections from the local farmers?  ;)
The railway to clones would service Belfast and where else? Newry? most of ulster wouldn't benefit.

Clones had lines to Enniskillen, Cavan, Armagh/Portadown and Dundalk (for Monaghan and South Armagh folk).
The line from Dundalk remained open for goods after regular passenger services stopped. My Da was on a special to the 1958 or perhaps 1959 Ulster final which was the last passenger train to run.

How did he get home?

Very good. On the same train, of course, sure where could it go only back the same way since the hoors in Fermanagh had lifted the line.

ANd only 4/6 from Cullaville

(https://i.ibb.co/MhFTjk3/clonestrain.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

Emmm, the Brits call it Cullaville, and the Irish call it Culloville.

So what does that make you? lol
Solution:  Baile Mhic Cullach. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wolfetones on August 17, 2023, 11:39:35 AM
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2023/08/17/buckingham-group-files-administration-notice/

More trouble ahead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2023, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: Wolfetones on August 17, 2023, 11:39:35 AM
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2023/08/17/buckingham-group-files-administration-notice/

More trouble ahead.

Was that the main contractor? FFS Be better getting this guy in

(https://40towers.co.uk/img/profiles/cast_members/oreilly_S01E02.jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wolfetones on August 17, 2023, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2023, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: Wolfetones on August 17, 2023, 11:39:35 AM
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2023/08/17/buckingham-group-files-administration-notice/

More trouble ahead.

Was that the main contractor? FFS Be better getting this guy in

(https://40towers.co.uk/img/profiles/cast_members/oreilly_S01E02.jpg)

One part of a JV with Heron Bros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 21, 2023, 11:57:19 PM
How is a contract award valid near 10yrs later,? These awards are normally only valid a few yrs, then void if work has not begun. How come this never been etendered again? Fear of seeing the reason cost I doubt.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on August 22, 2023, 08:59:48 AM
It's a partnership with Heron Bros as the main contractor, so I would imagine it is up to Herons to replace them or work with them to complete the contract if they can sort their financials out.

I doubt they would be needed at the beginning of the works anyway as Herons would be more than able to prepare the site. From what I have heard the contractors for each element have already been lined up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on August 22, 2023, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 22, 2023, 08:59:48 AM
It's a partnership with Heron Bros as the main contractor, so I would imagine it is up to Herons to replace them or work with them to complete the contract if they can sort their financials out.

I doubt they would be needed at the beginning of the works anyway as Herons would be more than able to prepare the site. From what I have heard the contractors for each element have already been lined up.

Through a proper tendering process obviously  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on August 22, 2023, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 22, 2023, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 22, 2023, 08:59:48 AM
It's a partnership with Heron Bros as the main contractor, so I would imagine it is up to Herons to replace them or work with them to complete the contract if they can sort their financials out.

I doubt they would be needed at the beginning of the works anyway as Herons would be more than able to prepare the site. From what I have heard the contractors for each element have already been lined up.

Through a proper tendering process obviously  ;)

Of course JC  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on August 22, 2023, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 22, 2023, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 22, 2023, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 22, 2023, 08:59:48 AM
It's a partnership with Heron Bros as the main contractor, so I would imagine it is up to Herons to replace them or work with them to complete the contract if they can sort their financials out.

I doubt they would be needed at the beginning of the works anyway as Herons would be more than able to prepare the site. From what I have heard the contractors for each element have already been lined up.

Through a proper tendering process obviously  ;)

Of course JC  ;)

I still can't get over the fact that Cork GAA didn't get more blow-back about the fact that the chairman was actually boasting that all the contractors for Pairc Ui Chaoimh bar one were Cork firms, especially given the problems that later came to light.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2023, 12:00:52 AM
Nobody sort give a reason why a contract awarded years ago is still legally valid here? Given material cost went up 30% alone in the past 3/4yrs. Seen it happen in school where they had to be retendered
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on August 23, 2023, 09:36:27 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2023, 12:00:52 AM
Nobody sort give a reason why a contract awarded years ago is still legally valid here? Given material cost went up 30% alone in the past 3/4yrs. Seen it happen in school where they had to be retendered

I can think of a number of potential reasons.
If they did re-tender after awarding it, for no reason other than cost, then the original contractor would be within their rights to take legal action. I'm sure they have costs for the tendering processes and then post award. Should they have taken the contract off them for no fault of their own, then I think they'd have a right to take action. This could cost a lot and take a lot of time.

Time is another issue. A tender for something of this scale is bound to take time to set up, time to allow applicants to submit a response, more time to select a winner and then a cooling off period.

If Heron's are the main contractor, they can perhaps replace the sub-contractor with no additional cost or risk to the project. I'm sure they'd have something built into the legalities of the award that Heron's would be responsible in the case of a subcontractor issue.

I reckon a re-tender would not be in anyone's interests provided the current contractor can demonstrate any increase in costs is due to the market and not profiteering.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 23, 2023, 10:50:43 AM
Any sign of any work starting?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on August 23, 2023, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 23, 2023, 10:50:43 AM
Any sign of any work starting?

Scheduled start for the new year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on August 25, 2023, 10:07:24 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2023, 12:00:52 AM
Nobody sort give a reason why a contract awarded years ago is still legally valid here? Given material cost went up 30% alone in the past 3/4yrs. Seen it happen in school where they had to be retendered

There will likely have been clauses to allow for increasing material costs. At no point was the Contractor responsible for the delay.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on August 25, 2023, 06:08:43 PM
Whatever about Casement the Hyde improvement works continue (Saw Machinery working there yesterday)

https://roscommonherald.ie/2023/08/25/green-light-given-to-next-phase-of-hyde-park-redevelopment/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Champion The Wonder Horse on August 25, 2023, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2023, 06:08:43 PM
Whatever about Casement the Hyde improvement works continue (Saw Machinery working there yesterday)

https://roscommonherald.ie/2023/08/25/green-light-given-to-next-phase-of-hyde-park-redevelopment/

Always wondered where he got to; great Derryman and a fine poster here for years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 02, 2023, 08:53:02 AM
Ulster rugger ballers to play in Breffni Park 7th October.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LC on September 02, 2023, 09:55:10 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 02, 2023, 08:53:02 AM
Ulster rugger ballers to play in Breffni Park 7th October.

Kingspan probably being the main thing here, sponsors of both.

A fair drive for a lot of the BT9 brigade, a change of scenery heading to Cavan.

Plus politically convenient to as no doubt somebody would have stirred the pot so to speak if it had been in a pitch in the 6 counties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:49:24 AM
Plenty of work in the pipeline for Stadium builders....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41220256.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: naka on September 06, 2023, 02:13:15 PM
Quote from: LC on September 02, 2023, 09:55:10 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 02, 2023, 08:53:02 AM
Ulster rugger ballers to play in Breffni Park 7th October.

Kingspan probably being the main thing here, sponsors of both.

A fair drive for a lot of the BT9 brigade, a change of scenery heading to Cavan.

Plus politically convenient to as no doubt somebody would have stirred the pot so to speak if it had been in a pitch in the 6 counties.
same day as the scotland game so i cant see too many at it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on September 06, 2023, 03:57:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:49:24 AM
Plenty of work in the pipeline for Stadium builders....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41220256.html

Haven't been to the premium level in a few years but felt the corporate facilities and the idea behind what a good corporate day is, badly needs updated at HQ. Been lucky to get to a few corporate gigs over the past 24 months in England and Europe. The big carvery dinner is so outdated. You can get an all in food and drink deal in lots of places which is good value. Think they could do things better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 06, 2023, 11:34:11 PM
Interesting to see if Casement will have a carvery deal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on September 07, 2023, 08:36:53 AM
Quote from: ONeill on September 06, 2023, 11:34:11 PM
Interesting to see if Casement will have a carvery deal.

Probably will and it will probably be shite.
I'd say there will be a good appetite for corporate tickets for an Ulster final and the likes. I'd take clients for sure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on September 07, 2023, 08:44:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:49:24 AM
Plenty of work in the pipeline for Stadium builders....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41220256.html

QuoteRedeveloped in time to be opened for 1996 for the price of £35 million (€62.75 million), the stand has a capacity of approximately 27,000.
I'm pretty sure the new Cusack was there in 1992 for the Tyrone v Derry national league final, although upper tiers not finished
It was defiantly in use for the 1995 final

QuoteAs well as the construction of a second hotel close to GAA HQ on Clonliffe College grounds built by the association, it is anticipated the Cusack Stand will require a facelift in the coming years.
Do the GAA own Conliffe college now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on September 07, 2023, 08:50:49 AM
The 1993 All-Ireland Final would have been the last game in which the old Cusack Stand was used.
It was in part use for the 94 Final and fully used for the 95 Final.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on September 07, 2023, 09:14:35 AM
I remember being in the old Cusack in 1993. The noise in it was unreal with the upper deck being practically on top of the lower.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Newbridge Exile on September 07, 2023, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: clarshack on September 07, 2023, 08:50:49 AM
The 1993 All-Ireland Final would have been the last game in which the old Cusack Stand was used.
It was in part use for the 94 Final and fully used for the 95 Final.
You are correct I was in that Cusack that day and there was a certificate in each seat saying you were going to be the last person to sit on it (it's still in the house somewhere)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Aristo 60 on September 07, 2023, 10:06:42 AM
Lower cusack first in use for AISF '94 is my memory
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tintin25 on September 07, 2023, 10:26:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 06, 2023, 03:57:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:49:24 AM
Plenty of work in the pipeline for Stadium builders....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41220256.html

Haven't been to the premium level in a few years but felt the corporate facilities and the idea behind what a good corporate day is, badly needs updated at HQ. Been lucky to get to a few corporate gigs over the past 24 months in England and Europe. The big carvery dinner is so outdated. You can get an all in food and drink deal in lots of places which is good value. Think they could do things better.

The premium experience definitely needs upgraded, not worth the money imo.  It's nowhere the level you'd see in other Sports Arenas in Europe and beyond.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 04:48:23 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on September 07, 2023, 10:06:42 AM
Lower cusack first in use for AISF '94 is my memory
How could someone from Down remember the Cusack in 1994? I  wonder.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 07, 2023, 08:09:56 PM
You do think of Down and the old Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 08:51:52 PM
Lads worrying about the Corporate facilities in Casement.....  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on September 09, 2023, 08:36:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 04:48:23 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on September 07, 2023, 10:06:42 AM
Lower cusack first in use for AISF '94 is my memory
How could someone from Down remember the Cusack in 1994? I  wonder.
I was in the canal End for 94 and have vague memories of the crowd chanting at the empty Cusack, "your not singing over there"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 09, 2023, 10:08:36 AM
Cusack was actually full, well bottom tier, was in it for the semi'94
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on September 09, 2023, 03:00:22 PM
There must be a refurbishment plan for the "new" stands.
I remember being in Shannon a few years age and getting the feeling that the last investment was in the 1970s. The Aviva probably has better Corp infrastructure than Croke Park, just because it is newer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on September 09, 2023, 05:27:28 PM
What's the timeline  for croke park? The cusack will be 30 years  old next year.

I know  hospitality changes ,  and the indoor stuff can be  upgraded. But the  stands  and the roofs themselves?  How long will they last  , realistically?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on September 09, 2023, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 09, 2023, 05:27:28 PM
What's the timeline  for croke park? The cusack will be 30 years  old next year.

I know  hospitality changes ,  and the indoor stuff can be  upgraded. But the  stands  and the roofs themselves?  How long will they last  , realistically?

According to this (subscription),  updating the Cusack is a medium term infrastructure project for  the GAA

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41220256.html

According to this , the European investment Bank approved a loan of  €36m to the GAA to redevelop Croke park. If the pandemic hadn't happened it would have been time to refurbish the stand..Then the GAA's income collapsed. The GAA is now fluirseach again so the project is probably back of the queue behind the provincial stadium work that has been planned.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-has-no-plans-to-press-ahead-with-croke-park-expansion/39997543.html

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on September 09, 2023, 08:27:40 PM
I remember being in Croke Park - Cusack Stand during the summer.

Looking up at the roof, there was a lot of them plastic/perspex sheets and from the roof side, they were filthy.

They could do with a good powerwash on top of the roof.  It would make a good difference all the way round.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Plain of the Herbs on September 11, 2023, 11:01:43 PM
Lower Cusack was first (partially) in use for 1994's Leinster football final.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on September 07, 2023, 10:06:42 AM
Lower cusack first in use for AISF '94 is my memory
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on September 12, 2023, 08:58:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 08:51:52 PM
Lads worrying about the Corporate facilities in Casement.....  ::)

People travel. They see what else other sports offer. Try it sometime.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 10:30:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 08:58:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 08:51:52 PM
Lads worrying about the Corporate facilities in Casement.....  ::)

People travel. They see what else other sports offer. Try it sometime.
I go to  sports Stadium  to see a match.
If I want to drink I go to a pub, if I want to ate I go to a restaurant .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on September 12, 2023, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 10:30:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 08:58:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 08:51:52 PM
Lads worrying about the Corporate facilities in Casement.....  ::)

People travel. They see what else other sports offer. Try it sometime.
I go to  sports Stadium  to see a match.
If I want to drink I go to a pub, if I want to ate I go to a restaurant .

Good on you. You're clearly the greatest gael ever. Close all corporate facilities. No real supporter uses them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 10:30:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 08:58:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 08:51:52 PM
Lads worrying about the Corporate facilities in Casement.....  ::)

People travel. They see what else other sports offer. Try it sometime.
I go to  sports Stadium  to see a match.
If I want to drink I go to a pub, if I want to ate I go to a restaurant .

Good on you. You're clearly the greatest gael ever. Close all corporate facilities. No real supporter uses them.

Absolutely!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on September 12, 2023, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 10:30:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 08:58:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 08:51:52 PM
Lads worrying about the Corporate facilities in Casement.....  ::)

People travel. They see what else other sports offer. Try it sometime.
I go to  sports Stadium  to see a match.
If I want to drink I go to a pub, if I want to ate I go to a restaurant .

Good on you. You're clearly the greatest gael ever. Close all corporate facilities. No real supporter uses them.

Absolutely!

Never brought children to anything im guessing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 01:31:48 PM
Brought them to matches when they were old enough to know what was going on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on September 12, 2023, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 12, 2023, 01:31:48 PM
Brought them to matches when they were old enough to know what was going on.

Hang sandwiches and a flask of tae?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 03, 2023, 12:42:37 PM
Steven Beacom
Yesterday at 22:53

Irish FA Chief Executive Patrick Nelson insists it will be all systems go for the construction of the new Casement Park if, as expected, the UK/Ireland bid to host the Euro 2028 finals is successful in Switzerland next week.
Nelson has declared that the IFA will do everything possible alongside the GAA to ensure the stadium is ready in time for the tournament pointing out that the re-building of Casement has the potential to be 'one of the most exciting and transformational projects' the Association has ever been involved in.

Nelson's comments come one week before it is announced at UEFA headquarters in Nyon on October 10 who will stage the 2028 European Championships with a joint bid from Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales set to be given the nod.

It would be the first time Northern Ireland has ever hosted a football tournament of this magnitude with GAA ground Casement Park chosen as the stadium where games would be played here.

For that to happen the 34,500 capacity west Belfast venue, which has been beset by controversy and delays for over a decade, has to be built on time and that means work starting in 2024.

Earlier this year the Amalgamation of Official Northern Ireland Supporters' Clubs (AONISC) released a statement in relation to Casement Park, saying "it is our view, and indeed our preference, that football tournaments should be hosted by football stadia" adding that the IFA were aware of their stance.


Irish FA CEO Patrick Nelson is excited Casement Park will be Northern Ireland's venue for Euro 2028
Irish FA CEO Patrick Nelson is excited Casement Park will be Northern Ireland's venue for Euro 2028

Asked for an update on the situation, the IFA issued a statement to the Belfast Telegraph with Chief Executive Nelson saying: "The re-building of Casement Park as an historic Gaelic games stadium to an arena which can host a global football tournament like the Euros has the potential to be one of the most exciting and transformational projects the Irish FA has ever been a partner in.

"We are aware of the challenges and complexities and, of course, we need to win the bid on 10th October first but, if we do and are confirmed as co-hosts, our efforts from that point onward will be to work closely with the GAA and others to ensure it is built in time to remind the world what a great city Belfast is."

It was back in 2011 that the NI Executive agreed to fund major upgrades to Windsor Park, Ravenhill and Casement Park but while the football and rugby stadiums have been completed the construction of the GAA ground has been held up due to a range of issues.

The original construction budget was £77.5 million with Stormont pledging £62.5 million and the GAA providing £15 million.

Now there are estimations that the price for Casement will be around £120 million to £130 million with the GAA consistently stressing they will pay no more than their original £15 million leaving the British government to make up the difference as a sign of their commitment to the UK/Irish Euro 2028 bid.


The GAA granted permission for Casement Park to be included in the UK/Ireland bid and remain behind the plan to play several Euro 2028 fixtures at the stadium.

Brian McAvoy, Chief Executive of Ulster GAA, Ciaran McLaughlin, President of Ulster GAA and Tom Daly, Chairman of Casement Park Stadium Development Project Board at Casement Park
Brian McAvoy, Chief Executive of Ulster GAA, Ciaran McLaughlin, President of Ulster GAA and Tom Daly, Chairman of Casement Park Stadium Development Project Board at Casement Park

Ulster GAA Chief Executive Brian McAvoy said: "The Casement Park redevelopment has been going on for too long and we hope to be on site next year to begin the construction process.

"If the Euro 2028 bid is successful it will be a great boost. As an Association we have a good working relationship with the IFA and the other members of the bid team and have been delighted to work with them on this project.

"Hopefully the bid will be successful and hopefully we can make sure that all bidding Associations for Euro 2028 can host games in the tournament.

"We are delighted to make Casement Park available so that matches can come to Belfast which would be fantastic for everyone involved."


Twelve years ago the government committed £36.2 million of Sub Regional Funding to improve Irish League stadiums but to the fury of football fans it has yet to be released.

Last month Northern Ireland Football League (NIFL) Chief Executive Gerard Lawlor stated that with government funding set to dramatically increase to build Casement Park, Irish League football should not be left with 'crumbs from the table' and called for the game here to be given "an equal share of that pie".

Lawlor's views echoed those of the AONISC in their statement in April which read: "Should Casement Park receive the significant public funding required to allow redevelopment to progress, we believe that Northern Ireland football should receive parity of funding."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NormPeterson on October 03, 2023, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on September 07, 2023, 09:14:35 AMI remember being in the old Cusack in 1993. The noise in it was unreal with the upper deck being practically on top of the lower.
The land the old Cusack was built on is a part of the pitch now due to the new Cusack being tilted anti clockwise. For example where Rian O'Neill took that free kick against Galway would have been in the old stand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2023, 09:03:54 PM
Who's gonna own this pitch at the finish? Can't see so much money been handed out without a no.of conditions on use for other sports. Gigs, and anything else under the sun which takes their fancy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 08:20:11 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 03, 2023, 09:03:54 PMWho's gonna own this pitch at the finish? Can't see so much money been handed out without a no.of conditions on use for other sports. Gigs, and anything else under the sun which takes their fancy

The GAA via the Ulster Council will ultimately own it, but they'll probably put some sort of body in control of utilising the venue to it's maximum.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 04, 2023, 10:08:36 AM
Ireland and UK set to be confirmed Euro 2028 hosts later today. Full steam ahead for Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 04, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Will they be using Croke Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2023, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2023, 11:14:07 AMWill they be using Croke Park?

Nah, Aviva being used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PM
Cue Unionist meltdown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PMCue Unionist meltdown.

IFA seem to be fully behind the renovation of Casement for this, so they've maybe had a few quid thrown their way as well.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 04, 2023, 12:41:40 PM
I see an argument over the naming of the bid/tournament has broken out on Northern twitter.

Ireland and Britain
UK and Ireland

Yes. Really.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 04, 2023, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PMCue Unionist meltdown.

IFA seem to be fully behind the renovation of Casement for this, so they've maybe had a few quid thrown their way as well.

They'll be looking to play all their big game qualifiers at Casement. Italy, Germany, France these types of games with San Marino, Andora, Farore Islands all confined to Windsor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 02:06:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 04, 2023, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PMCue Unionist meltdown.

IFA seem to be fully behind the renovation of Casement for this, so they've maybe had a few quid thrown their way as well.

They'll be looking to play all their big game qualifiers at Casement. Italy, Germany, France these types of games with San Marino, Andora, Farore Islands all confined to Windsor.


And what is the issue with that?

££££££££€€€€€€€€€
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on October 04, 2023, 02:16:20 PM
They'll be playing God Save the King in Casement then so bitter pills to swallow for both sides.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 04, 2023, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 04, 2023, 02:16:20 PMThey'll be playing God Save the King in Casement then so bitter pills to swallow for both sides.

Sure they play it Croke park. That ship of shit has long since sailed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 04, 2023, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PMCue Unionist meltdown.

IFA seem to be fully behind the renovation of Casement for this, so they've maybe had a few quid thrown their way as well.

They'll be looking to play all their big game qualifiers at Casement. Italy, Germany, France these types of games with San Marino, Andora, Farore Islands all confined to Windsor.

Can't see that happening.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 04, 2023, 04:46:29 PM
The NI soccer team won't last much longer after 2028 anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on October 04, 2023, 05:11:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 04, 2023, 04:46:29 PMThe NI soccer team won't last much longer after 2028 anyway.

They can always play in the  unofficial tournaments with the likes of  Yorkshire, Transylvania  and Mordor
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 10:11:05 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 04, 2023, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PMCue Unionist meltdown.

IFA seem to be fully behind the renovation of Casement for this, so they've maybe had a few quid thrown their way as well.

They'll be looking to play all their big game qualifiers at Casement. Italy, Germany, France these types of games with San Marino, Andora, Farore Islands all confined to Windsor.

Can't see that happening.
Ulster rugby will use it for their big games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 05, 2023, 10:33:41 AM
Quote from: clarshack on October 04, 2023, 02:16:20 PMThey'll be playing God Save the King in Casement then so bitter pills to swallow for both sides.

Only if NI or Englerland are playing, sure no big deal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 10:45:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 05, 2023, 10:33:41 AM
Quote from: clarshack on October 04, 2023, 02:16:20 PMThey'll be playing God Save the King in Casement then so bitter pills to swallow for both sides.

Only if NI or Englerland are playing, sure no big deal.

It is as slight deal with the first, but of course the English can have whatever anthem they want.

Ben Lowry on RTE radio now arguing that the GAA is like the Orange Order,

He does have a small point, I think the GAA will have to pay  something more than they proposed 10 years ago, to reflect general inflation, including ticket prices. No doubt they will eventually agree to some small bit extra, but are wisely not volunteering for that.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
The GAA are not under the same time pressure as the FA/IFA and ultimately the British government to ensure the stadium is in place by 2028 so they do not need to rush into providing additional funding.
Leo Varadkar is offering to make a contribution as a gesture of goodwill, similarly underlining the point it is not his responsibility to pay for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on October 05, 2023, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 10:11:05 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 04, 2023, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 04, 2023, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2023, 12:13:31 PMCue Unionist meltdown.

IFA seem to be fully behind the renovation of Casement for this, so they've maybe had a few quid thrown their way as well.

They'll be looking to play all their big game qualifiers at Casement. Italy, Germany, France these types of games with San Marino, Andora, Farore Islands all confined to Windsor.

Can't see that happening.
Ulster rugby will use it for their big games.
Ulster don't have any big matches that would require the extra room at the moment. They'd need to improve a lot.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on October 05, 2023, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 12:19:12 PMThe GAA are not under the same time pressure as the FA/IFA and ultimately the British government to ensure the stadium is in place by 2028 so they do not need to rush into providing additional funding.
Leo Varadkar is offering to make a contribution as a gesture of goodwill, similarly underlining the point it is not his responsibility to pay for it.

The British government/ FA  will find other grounds to host games if the casement project falls through. There's probably 15 premier league stadiums  suitable.

If that happened , the   embarrassing thing for the IFA is that it is a UK-wide  event with Ireland  , but nothing  is happening in Norn Iron
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:24:13 PM
Nothing will be built unless they sort out the issues with the contractors
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Delgany 2nds on October 05, 2023, 01:41:22 PM
I was told contractor situation has been resolved with Heron's stepping in to be main contractor
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PM
I'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OgraAnDun on October 05, 2023, 01:46:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PMI'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..

Sure that's where they got the Casement funds from...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:50:21 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on October 05, 2023, 01:46:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PMI'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..

Sure that's where they got the Casement funds from...

Just feel he'll use the money to get votes.. and the tories won't be getting any votes here

But fingers crossed its up and running soon...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 05, 2023, 02:03:09 PM
Out of interest what's the story with the host countries in 2028? Do all 5 get in? Or is that all done away with?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on October 05, 2023, 02:06:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 05, 2023, 02:03:09 PMOut of interest what's the story with the host countries in 2028? Do all 5 get in? Or is that all done away with?

Current proposal being considered is that all 5 must qualify, but two spots will be reserved for the two best performers that don't qualify. So if England, Scotland and Wales qualified, the two reserved spots would fall to FAI and IFA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2023, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PMI'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..

I'd have to say that my initial reaction - and probably naively - was that once the UK and Ireland were awarded the tournament, then building Casement would automatically happen. However, I heard Miguel Delaney on Sky Sports still talking about IF Casement gets built and suggesting the possibility of alternative venues, which sort of stopped me in my tracks. Is there still a doubt this will happen? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 05:23:35 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2023, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PMI'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..

I'd have to say that my initial reaction - and probably naively - was that once the UK and Ireland were awarded the tournament, then building Casement would automatically happen. However, I heard Miguel Delaney on Sky Sports still talking about IF Casement gets built and suggesting the possibility of alternative venues, which sort of stopped me in my tracks. Is there still a doubt this will happen? 

If it is going to be built then they need to start now. Is there not some issue with the contractor?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on October 05, 2023, 06:29:26 PM
Does The North need a 40k  all seater GAA stadium?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 06:41:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2023, 06:29:26 PMDoes The North need a 40k  all seater GAA stadium?

No, nor is it getting one that size. The revised project has a 34,500 capacity, I'm not sure if that is all seater. Some standing for GAA games with provision to install seating would be appropriate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 05, 2023, 07:07:57 PM
I'd say they have to find the money from somewhere, now that it's certain that they need Casement.

Everybody will have to step up to the plate and empty the pockets.

Time is of the essence now.  That's probably a good thing in that it forces minds.

I suppose the local economy will get a dividend from this - so it'll bring money in...I think. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on October 05, 2023, 08:01:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 06:41:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2023, 06:29:26 PMDoes The North need a 40k  all seater GAA stadium?

No, nor is it getting one that size. The revised project has a 34,500 capacity, I'm not sure if that is all seater. Some standing for GAA games with provision to install seating would be appropriate.
It's not all seated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on October 05, 2023, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 05:23:35 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2023, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PMI'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..

I'd have to say that my initial reaction - and probably naively - was that once the UK and Ireland were awarded the tournament, then building Casement would automatically happen. However, I heard Miguel Delaney on Sky Sports still talking about IF Casement gets built and suggesting the possibility of alternative venues, which sort of stopped me in my tracks. Is there still a doubt this will happen? 

If it is going to be built then they need to start now. Is there not some issue with the contractor?

Yes the Buckingham Group have went bust with the loss of about 500 jobs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PM
If Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yes, why not? Monaghan v Cavan or Fermanagh would be less clear.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 05, 2023, 10:37:01 PM
It will get built. We will look like an even bigger basket case of a place if we can't sort out a stadium for a chance to host one of the world's major sporting events. The UK and Irish government will cough up the dosh, sure the GAA will likely increase their input  to quieten down the objectors. In hindsight the Maze stadium should have been built but the OWC fans objected and they are the ones moaning again. Maybe Windsor should have been redeveloped as a bigger stadium. 18000 always seemed ridiculously shortsighted
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on October 06, 2023, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 05, 2023, 10:37:01 PMIt will get built. We will look like an even bigger basket case of a place if we can't sort out a stadium for a chance to host one of the world's major sporting events. The UK and Irish government will cough up the dosh, sure the GAA will likely increase their input  to quieten down the objectors. In hindsight the Maze stadium should have been built but the OWC fans objected and they are the ones moaning again. Maybe Windsor should have been redeveloped as a bigger stadium. 18000 always seemed ridiculously shortsighted

Would Northern Irel fill out above a 18k stadium ?Playing in half full stadiums looks doesn't look a good spectacle.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on October 06, 2023, 02:54:06 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Definitely. If the suggestion is that Clones would be better then St Tiernach's Park would need a serious revamp too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 10, 2023, 09:08:59 AM
Official announcement due today.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on October 10, 2023, 10:10:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yeah dragged up to the black north  :o

If Casement gets built a brand new modern stadium with all that comes with that, of course every Ulster final and indeed any big county game in the province is going to be played there for the foreseeable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on October 10, 2023, 10:35:44 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yes.
In the same way that when any team has gotten to an Ulster final in the last 20/30 years have been dragged to Clones for it  ::)
Monaghan with home advantage in Clones too? Who do they think they are with their sense of hometown entitlement, Dublin?  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on October 10, 2023, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on October 10, 2023, 10:10:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yeah dragged up to the black north  :o

If Casement gets built a brand new modern stadium with all that comes with that, of course every Ulster final and indeed any big county game in the province is going to be played there for the foreseeable.

Not sure if I'd use the word "dragged" but yes of course they'll be in Casement. Motorways in from North and South into Belfast will make it easy for everyone from Ulster and beyond. Anything beats the traffic turmoil of Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: An Watcher on October 10, 2023, 11:47:09 AM
It'll be a sad day when the ulster final is no longer at clones.  Love the venue which includes the traffic, the town, the bars everything.

Casement will be a fantastic stadium but everything else doesn't exactly have me looking forward to it. 

I know a new stadium is progress but Belfast just doesn't do it for me
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 10, 2023, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on October 10, 2023, 11:47:09 AMIt'll be a sad day when the ulster final is no longer at clones.  Love the venue which includes the traffic, the town, the bars everything.

Casement will be a fantastic stadium but everything else doesn't exactly have me looking forward to it. 

I know a new stadium is progress but Belfast just doesn't do it for me

If Clones want to keep it, they can build a modern stadium fit to hold it. They have shown it zero respect and look only on the final as a cash cow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2023, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on October 10, 2023, 11:47:09 AMIt'll be a sad day when the ulster final is no longer at clones.  Love the venue which includes the traffic, the town, the bars everything.

Casement will be a fantastic stadium but everything else doesn't exactly have me looking forward to it. 

I know a new stadium is progress but Belfast just doesn't do it for me

If Clones want to keep it, they can build a modern stadium fit to hold it. They have shown it zero respect and look only on the final as a cash cow.

I would say that the people of Clones have shown more respect to their stadium than those in West Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2023, 01:39:14 PM
This is daft, the ulster finals will be in Casement IF its built.

It'll be a brand new state of the art stadium that will be used by the Ulster council and by Croke Park to hold significant games after the Ulster championship.

Expect some serious teething problems at the start as it will take a few games/events to get it right with regards to traffic and commuting to and from the place.

But it will be some set up when it gets up and running, plus the businesses around the place should do very well come match days
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bennydorano on October 10, 2023, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: ck on October 10, 2023, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on October 10, 2023, 10:10:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yeah dragged up to the black north  :o

If Casement gets built a brand new modern stadium with all that comes with that, of course every Ulster final and indeed any big county game in the province is going to be played there for the foreseeable.

Not sure if I'd use the word "dragged" but yes of course they'll be in Casement. Motorways in from North and South into Belfast will make it easy for everyone from Ulster and beyond. Anything beats the traffic turmoil of Clones.
Spoken like someone whose never had the experience of being backed up on the M1 trying to get to Casement?? In my experience it was as big a traffic nightmare as Clones, hated going to it for the big games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2023, 03:41:07 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 10, 2023, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: ck on October 10, 2023, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on October 10, 2023, 10:10:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yeah dragged up to the black north  :o

If Casement gets built a brand new modern stadium with all that comes with that, of course every Ulster final and indeed any big county game in the province is going to be played there for the foreseeable.

Not sure if I'd use the word "dragged" but yes of course they'll be in Casement. Motorways in from North and South into Belfast will make it easy for everyone from Ulster and beyond. Anything beats the traffic turmoil of Clones.
Spoken like someone whose never had the experience of being backed up on the M1 trying to get to Casement?? In my experience it was as big a traffic nightmare as Clones, hated going to it for the big games.

What do people do when they go to Arsenal, Anfield, Manchester and so on?

There is no shortage of public transport going up the falls, there is a train station about a mile away if you are being backed up coming off the motorway don't take the car, get the train in from Lisburn and park there and walk. Loads of options, but that needs to be met by the transport
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 10, 2023, 03:45:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 10, 2023, 02:42:00 PM
Quote from: ck on October 10, 2023, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on October 10, 2023, 10:10:35 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2023, 09:48:08 PMIf Monaghan and Donegal got to a Ulster final in a few years time, would they drag them to Casement park for it?

Yeah dragged up to the black north  :o

If Casement gets built a brand new modern stadium with all that comes with that, of course every Ulster final and indeed any big county game in the province is going to be played there for the foreseeable.

Not sure if I'd use the word "dragged" but yes of course they'll be in Casement. Motorways in from North and South into Belfast will make it easy for everyone from Ulster and beyond. Anything beats the traffic turmoil of Clones.
Spoken like someone whose never had the experience of being backed up on the M1 trying to get to Casement?? In my experience it was as big a traffic nightmare as Clones, hated going to it for the big games.

I think the likes of trains etc will need to be used more. As I said before, people are used to 'throwin her up on the kerb' when going to games but like going to Croker people need to go by train and other routes into Belfast. As MR2 says, it'll take a while to find its feet. Going to the Ulster Final last year in Clones finished it off for me. A complete kip of a place. I'd prefer if they just hosted the games in Croker or somewhere than having to back to Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 10, 2023, 03:55:26 PM
What Casement was like getting to 20 years ago will probably bear no resemblance to what it's like when it's built. People just have to accept they won't be able to just throw their car up on a kerb and walk 100 yds to the ground.

There aren't many big grounds you can do that at
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bennydorano on October 10, 2023, 04:00:43 PM
Is there an infrastructure project in tandem with the rebuild?

It does not appeal to me in the slightest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 10, 2023, 04:04:22 PM
Train and Glider. Will the new transport hub at Great Victoria St be built in time? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 10, 2023, 04:50:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 10, 2023, 04:00:43 PMIs there an infrastructure project in tandem with the rebuild?

It does not appeal to me in the slightest.

There's park n rides all along both motorways.
There's the odd train, certainly Down, Derry and North Armagh fans will be catered for.
Buses still exist.

Like Clones has absolutely none of this. There's not even a decent road. The ground is a f**king dump.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on October 10, 2023, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 10, 2023, 04:04:22 PMTrain and Glider. Will the new transport hub at Great Victoria St be built in time? 

2025
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 10, 2023, 05:53:54 PM
I see the Ulster Council planning to hold Ulster Semis and Final there in 2027.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 10, 2023, 06:06:11 PM
What's all the black stuff on the exposed seating? Is it to stop weeds growing or something!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 10, 2023, 06:12:24 PM
Need get some decent bars round it, drinking with the upper class pensioners enjoying peace and quite in the bowling club, over the years doesn't have the same bite to it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NormPeterson on October 10, 2023, 07:00:27 PM
My last time at Casement Park was when Mickey Harte's Tyrone beat Derry in 2009. I remember there was loud mouthed Tyrone fans after the game trying to taunt Derry fans.

Hopefully it isn't ready for 2028 as I wouldn't like to see Northern Ireland fans with their flags at the ground. I would rather see it bull dozed and houses built on the land that have that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on October 10, 2023, 07:35:51 PM
I'd say you're a real bunch of laughs down the pub, Norm.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:38:03 PM
do they have a reserve stadiumn incase casement do not get built
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:39:06 PM
will all ulster semi finals and finals  be held there will clones become a white elephant
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:41:32 PM
you think they  have  some agreement to hold the ulster final at clones every 3 years or something
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:47:28 PM
the gaa could play some  quarter finals outside of croke park  in cork   and casement park will make less chances of these stadiums becoming   white elephants if they have a quarter final every year maybe try and develop or upgrade a stadium in Connaught aswell.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:50:23 PM
Do Teams play hurling/football double headers in the league  a few antrim hurling football double headers may get an ok crowd
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on October 10, 2023, 09:30:30 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 07:35:51 PMI'd say you're a real bunch of laughs down the pub, Norm.

😁 Stormin' Norman
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 10, 2023, 10:01:26 PM
Quote from: TirEoghain84 on October 05, 2023, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 05:23:35 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 05, 2023, 03:54:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2023, 01:44:05 PMI'll believe it when I see the diggers going in lol!

"spades in soil" from the UK PM and they have shelved the new rail line to Manchester ..

I'd have to say that my initial reaction - and probably naively - was that once the UK and Ireland were awarded the tournament, then building Casement would automatically happen. However, I heard Miguel Delaney on Sky Sports still talking about IF Casement gets built and suggesting the possibility of alternative venues, which sort of stopped me in my tracks. Is there still a doubt this will happen? 

If it is going to be built then they need to start now. Is there not some issue with the contractor?

Yes the Buckingham Group have went bust with the loss of about 500 jobs.
If there is essentially a blank cheque to get this ready on time there will be no shortage of contractors throwing their lot in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 11, 2023, 10:47:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:39:06 PMwill all ulster semi finals and finals  be held there will clones become a white elephant

You need to look up what "white elephant" means

When Casement is built it will hold all Ulster Sf and Finals Hurling, Football, Ladies and Camogie
It will also be available hold All Ireland QFs as well.
It will be a modern stadium in which to play our games. Clones will be confined to the bin.

Casement has the one thing it badly needs... a firm date. It is now or never for this project.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 11, 2023, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 10:47:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:39:06 PMwill all ulster semi finals and finals  be held there will clones become a white elephant

You need to look up what "white elephant" means

When Casement is built it will hold all Ulster Sf and Finals Hurling, Football, Ladies and Camogie
It will also be available hold All Ireland QFs as well.
It will be a modern stadium in which to play our games. Clones will be confined to the bin.

Casement has the one thing it badly needs... a firm date. It is now or never for this project.

There is no Ulster Hurling championship!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 11, 2023, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 11, 2023, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 10:47:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:39:06 PMwill all ulster semi finals and finals  be held there will clones become a white elephant

You need to look up what "white elephant" means

When Casement is built it will hold all Ulster Sf and Finals Hurling, Football, Ladies and Camogie
It will also be available hold All Ireland QFs as well.
It will be a modern stadium in which to play our games. Clones will be confined to the bin.

Casement has the one thing it badly needs... a firm date. It is now or never for this project.

There is no Ulster Hurling championship!


Well Hurling Championship games or whatever Antrim play in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:14:35 AM
I will be surprised if this is built on time. As with the A5 road there will be a group monitoring this and if one item is over looked they will pounce and you will see delay after delay.

I heard Heron Bros were in line to build it but that's not the case anymore
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on October 11, 2023, 11:17:16 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 10, 2023, 08:41:32 PMyou think they  have  some agreement to hold the ulster final at clones every 3 years or something

Why?
Clones will still be used as the Monaghan home ground for league and championship.
In the same way Tyrone have Omagh, Derry have Celtic Park (or Owenbeg).

Casement will, and should, host those Ulster finals and semi finals.
It will also give Antrim the county grounds they have been missing for a decade or more - and in doing so perhaps encourage more kids to get involved when they see it.
AI qualifiers would be a possibility, especially if the teams are northern teams.

Then the income generated from Concerts/events etc should be substantial. Regular large events will encourage the development of local businesses in the hospitality sector too as they'll have guaranteed pay-day's over the year.

It can only be good for the GAA in Antrim, Belfast and Ulster in general.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 11, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:14:35 AMI will be surprised if this is built on time. As with the A5 road there will be a group monitoring this and if one item is over looked they will pounce and you will see delay after delay.

I heard Heron Bros were in line to build it but that's not the case anymore
Surely the fact it's included in the Euros bid means it will be completed on time by all means necessary?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on October 11, 2023, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:14:35 AMI will be surprised if this is built on time. As with the A5 road there will be a group monitoring this and if one item is over looked they will pounce and you will see delay after delay.

I heard Heron Bros were in line to build it but that's not the case anymore
Hopefully they'll be told where to go.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on October 11, 2023, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:14:35 AMI will be surprised if this is built on time. As with the A5 road there will be a group monitoring this and if one item is over looked they will pounce and you will see delay after delay.

I heard Heron Bros were in line to build it but that's not the case anymore

I think it will. Both governments will now put additional funds in and can afford to do so with the projected influx of money coming into the countries before, during and after the event.
A window for the world into facilities here will undoubtedly bring in money post the event too. From a finance pov, it there would be a strong return on investment here.

Herons had the original contract, what I heard was that one of the sub-contractors folded, however herons still were the builder designate. They would just appoint a new sub-contractor. I'd imagine they will be able to come in with the increased cost of the build if they can demonstrate it is a reasonable amount given market changes since the original award.
A re-tender process would cost more money and time and could be subject to legal challenges.
And lets face it, costs will continue to rise during that window. So the sensible approach would be to retain Heron's at an agreed increase in costs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: God14 on October 11, 2023, 11:30:00 AM
Herons had the original contract - in a joint venture with Buckingham group. Buckingham Group are now bust.
Its not as straight forward as you suggest
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on October 11, 2023, 11:35:14 AM
Quote from: God14 on October 11, 2023, 11:30:00 AMHerons had the original contract - in a joint venture with Buckingham group. Buckingham Group are now bust.
Its not as straight forward as you suggest

I thought Herons were the primary and Buckingham were more or less a sub-contractor?
Just my understanding, not really aware of the details.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:52:11 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:14:35 AMI will be surprised if this is built on time. As with the A5 road there will be a group monitoring this and if one item is over looked they will pounce and you will see delay after delay.

I heard Heron Bros were in line to build it but that's not the case anymore
Surely the fact it's included in the Euros bid means it will be completed on time by all means necessary?

In a normal society this would be the case, unfortunately we have a shower of bigots who have too much power.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: J70 on October 11, 2023, 12:21:21 PM
Quote from: God14 on October 11, 2023, 11:30:00 AMHerons had the original contract - in a joint venture with Buckingham group. Buckingham Group are now bust.
Its not as straight forward as you suggest

Weren't they the company that folded in the middle of building the Anfield Road end stand for Liverpool? Fulham's stadium too, too if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: God14 on October 11, 2023, 12:25:51 PM
yeah, same outfit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 11, 2023, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:52:11 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 11, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 11, 2023, 11:14:35 AMI will be surprised if this is built on time. As with the A5 road there will be a group monitoring this and if one item is over looked they will pounce and you will see delay after delay.

I heard Heron Bros were in line to build it but that's not the case anymore
Surely the fact it's included in the Euros bid means it will be completed on time by all means necessary?

In a normal society this would be the case, unfortunately we have a shower of bigots who have too much power.

Focus the minds. No stadium, no games in NI and no qualification spot should they not qualify via the group stage and require one.

Spurs stadium was built by companies in the North. The Concrete for the stands poured offsite here, the steel ring supplied from here and the fit out as well.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 11, 2023, 12:51:04 PM
A penalty kick.

Northern Ireland is looking forward to a "huge economic" windfall after the news that five Euros 2028 matches will be played here, with great potential for the hotel sector to "unlock new markets, bolstering Belfast's global profile".
One regional hotel group said the prospect of the event would be an incentive to make further investments.

Consultancy firm Deloitte estimated that the tournament would bring a £2.6bn economic boost to the UK and Ireland. �

A spokesman for the Irish FA said: "The five associations believe the tournament will have a huge economic impact within the UK and Ireland, generating many millions of pounds for their respective economies."

In its Tournament Requirements for the 2024 Euros, Uefa said that 1,600 rooms would be required for its 'target groups' alone, including Uefa officials, broadcast staff, teams, commercial partners, members of the media and suppliers.

It says 75% of the 1,600 rooms must be in four or five-star hotels, with all located no further than a 45-minute drive from the stadium.

A fly-through of the proposed Casement Park redevelopment for the 2028 Euros

Northern Ireland Hotels Federation chief executive Janice Gault said hosting the Euros was a "very positive development" for the industry.

"Hosting globally recognised events provides a remarkable platform for Northern Ireland, enabling us to showcase the region, attract a fresh influx of visitors and garner international attention," she added.

"Currently boasting over 5,000 hotel bedrooms in the city, accommodating over 10,000 guests, coupled with additional provisions in other serviced accommodations and a substantial stock of self-catering options, Belfast is well-prepared to host such prestigious events.

"This presents a significant opportunity for the entire region, with teams based both within and beyond the city, and visitors traveling between fixtures and across countries.

"With a robust pipeline, including a new hotel opening next week and three additional properties expected to be operational by 2025, we are witnessing a substantial wave of investment.

"Global events of this magnitude not only invigorate the business landscape but also unlock new markets, bolstering Belfast's global profile."


Casement Park will be ready for Euro 2028 but GAA funding up to them, insists IFA chief Patrick Nelson
According to a federation report, Northern Ireland has 141 hotels with 9,432 rooms.

There are four five-star hotels, offering 365 rooms, and 41 four-star hotels, offering 3,920 rooms.

Room2 on the corner of Queen Street and College Street will open on October 16.

Other hotels planned for the city in the next few years include the Moxy Hotel, the Dean and the Mountainview in west Belfast.


Rajesh Rana, the director of Andras Hotels, which has six hotels and serviced accommodation in Belfast, said: "Andras Hotels have plans for new hotels in the city, and the Euros will encourage us to keep investing and developing in Belfast."

Earlier this year, the Birmingham Live news website reported that with the city likely to host five matches, it would bring £117.1m in economic benefits, according to analysis by its council, along with Deloitte and UK Sport.

Gerry Lennon, chief executive of the tourism body Visit Belfast, said he was keen to work with partners to make the most of the benefits of the Euros to Belfast and the wider region.

"Sports tourism is a growth area, and with an exciting line-up of international events over the next few years, the Euros 2028 is a key event helping to provide a significant boost to the economy, positioning both Belfast and Northern Ireland on the map for future events," he added.

A Tourism NI spokesperson said the event brought "immense opportunities" to promote Northern Ireland.

"We have enjoyed a lasting impact from the international events staged here over the last decade, from The Open, the Irish Open and the Giro d'Italia to UK City of Culture," they added.

"These events generated civic pride and economic benefits across the country and have improved the perception of Northern Ireland in all our key tourism markets."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PM
I honestly don't think it will be built in time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:31:06 PM
So the green light has been given, cases that have been brought to the courts have been dealt with and funding looks to be mainly sorted, but the place won't be built in time? Its 4.5 years? How long does it take to get going or is this a local government issue that requires them to be in government to get it up and ready?

quick google

On average, professional sports stadiums take between two and three years from start to finish — for example, construction on the Las Vegas Raiders' Allegiant Stadium took 31 months..

Whos doing the construction? Steve Wonder?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:58:03 PM
This can be built in 3 years and used for the 2027 Ulster championship, if they don't abolish that competition just before the stadium built to host it is opened. But they need to confirm the money, close off the legalities and get the diggers in. They might as well start demolition tomorrow, as they have left the stadium in no condition to be used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 11, 2023, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:31:06 PMSo the green light has been given, cases that have been brought to the courts have been dealt with and funding looks to be mainly sorted, but the place won't be built in time? Its 4.5 years? How long does it take to get going or is this a local government issue that requires them to be in government to get it up and ready?

quick google

On average, professional sports stadiums take between two and three years from start to finish — for example, construction on the Las Vegas Raiders' Allegiant Stadium took 31 months..

Whos doing the construction? Steve Wonder?

Some of the previous redevelopments for the GAA have been very poor, some of the builders seem to be taking the piss because the money involved would have got vastly superior jobs done across the water
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 03:39:22 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 11, 2023, 02:47:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:31:06 PMSo the green light has been given, cases that have been brought to the courts have been dealt with and funding looks to be mainly sorted, but the place won't be built in time? Its 4.5 years? How long does it take to get going or is this a local government issue that requires them to be in government to get it up and ready?

quick google

On average, professional sports stadiums take between two and three years from start to finish — for example, construction on the Las Vegas Raiders' Allegiant Stadium took 31 months..

Whos doing the construction? Steve Wonder?

Some of the previous redevelopments for the GAA have been very poor, some of the builders seem to be taking the piss because the money involved would have got vastly superior jobs done across the water

Aye but its not just the GAA's money getting ploughed into this one. Few stake holders involved so hopefully the diggers go in soon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 06:14:56 PM
I think you lads haven't dealt with big budget public bodies trying to even get a new school built, total overkill in governance which puts the cost through the roof. Governance wise the time frame between awarding the contract and start date exceeds any good governance in law, and I can't see how's it legal. If a contract was awarded for £77 million, and now I estimate about about £120-130million, The increase in difference is such that it must be retendered. That's basically a law for good governance involving public money. I can't see how this is any difference, and a fast track tendering process is a year alone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 06:17:08 PM
Jeffrey is not happy. Quelle surpise.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/jeffrey-donaldson-raises-big-questions-over-casement-park-funding-and-euro-2028/a942025444.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2023, 06:28:11 PM
"Northern Ireland Supporters" are also opposed.
The bigots would prefer to lose the Tourney than see the GAA get anything.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 06:49:34 PM
Here, we have to dealt with that every day, you wouldn't believe the mentality to some elected representatives. Men complaining about the GAA % who let their areas fall away into shit holes. Ballymoney turned into a wasteland and then the same bollix gets in, in every election, you can't beat stupid/bitter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on October 11, 2023, 07:00:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2023, 06:28:11 PM"Noerther Ireland Supporters" are also opposed.
The bigots would prefer to lose the Toyrney than see the GAA get anything.

The GAA and west Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 11, 2023, 08:06:39 PM
Ironic the Jeff is complaining about funding for everything with the DUP holding everybody to ransom in the wee 6.

He says it with a straight face too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 06:17:08 PMJeffrey is not happy. Quelle surpise.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/jeffrey-donaldson-raises-big-questions-over-casement-park-funding-and-euro-2028/a942025444.html

Surely the IFA agreed  in advance with the other FA's  that the only way NI would be  included in the joint bid would  mean that  casement, and not Windsor,  would host games?

Why  did Jeffrey not have a  dig at them?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 12, 2023, 07:52:01 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 06:17:08 PMJeffrey is not happy. Quelle surpise.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/jeffrey-donaldson-raises-big-questions-over-casement-park-funding-and-euro-2028/a942025444.html

Surely the IFA agreed  in advance with the other FA's  that the only way NI would be  included in the joint bid would  mean that  casement, and not Windsor,  would host games?

Why  did Jeffrey not have a  dig at them?

The pressure has come on from the no men.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 12, 2023, 08:15:10 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2023, 07:52:01 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 06:17:08 PMJeffrey is not happy. Quelle surpise.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/jeffrey-donaldson-raises-big-questions-over-casement-park-funding-and-euro-2028/a942025444.html

Surely the IFA agreed  in advance with the other FA's  that the only way NI would be  included in the joint bid would  mean that  casement, and not Windsor,  would host games?

Why  did Jeffrey not have a  dig at them?

The pressure has come on from the no men.

Themmuns get everything mentality.

The IFA don't own anything, Linfield own Windsor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 12, 2023, 08:48:25 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 12, 2023, 08:15:10 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2023, 07:52:01 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 06:17:08 PMJeffrey is not happy. Quelle surpise.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/jeffrey-donaldson-raises-big-questions-over-casement-park-funding-and-euro-2028/a942025444.html

Surely the IFA agreed  in advance with the other FA's  that the only way NI would be  included in the joint bid would  mean that  casement, and not Windsor,  would host games?

Why  did Jeffrey not have a  dig at them?

The pressure has come on from the no men.

Themmuns get everything mentality.

The IFA don't own anything, Linfield own Windsor.

Dundonald Ice Bowl - £52m (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/52-million-redevelopment-dundonald-international-27794393)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 09:07:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)


He's only concerned with whatever wee jamey says and his last legacy among his own. He'll be put in his box

The money won't be coming from Stormont anyways, the place will be built before they go back into government
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on October 12, 2023, 10:03:36 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.
Can't have them taigs getting anything good!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wolfetones on October 12, 2023, 10:07:53 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 06:14:56 PMI think you lads haven't dealt with big budget public bodies trying to even get a new school built, total overkill in governance which puts the cost through the roof. Governance wise the time frame between awarding the contract and start date exceeds any good governance in law, and I can't see how's it legal. If a contract was awarded for £77 million, and now I estimate about about £120-130million, The increase in difference is such that it must be retendered. That's basically a law for good governance involving public money. I can't see how this is any difference, and a fast track tendering process is a year alone.

You're completely wrong on this. Ulster GAA issued a VEAT notice in Mid July and outlined why the project would not be retendered and the justification for that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 12, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.

Can you imagine OWC out of the bid and having croke or pairc UI chaoimh being used instead and NI missing the party. Has a party ever had so little strategy or forward thinking ever ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 10:22:29 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 06:14:56 PMI think you lads haven't dealt with big budget public bodies trying to even get a new school built, total overkill in governance which puts the cost through the roof. Governance wise the time frame between awarding the contract and start date exceeds any good governance in law, and I can't see how's it legal. If a contract was awarded for £77 million, and now I estimate about about £120-130million, The increase in difference is such that it must be retendered. That's basically a law for good governance involving public money. I can't see how this is any difference, and a fast track tendering process is a year alone.

Not sure that's the case.
Typcially bids come with caveats allowing for changes in costs for a variety of reasons such as market conditions, or one side changing the scheme of work, or unexpected delays.
I'd be very surprise if this goes out to a re-tender.
The NIDIRECT programme of work in NI was originally a 12M contract for 5 years that grew to a 70M contract over 7 years....all within the scope of the original tender. All public money. All legal and above board.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2023, 12:44:28 PM
It's unreal that the DUP would rather NI wasn't represented in a UK & Ire project that would bring in £Ms to the local economy, just to be able to say fcuk you to the nationalist community. Part of me would love to see it happen and then see the whining when none of the games are held in NI. Bob, Rodney and William won't be happy seeing the partying in Dublin, London etc when it's on, and shining a light on this cesspit of a place. I honest think with the younger voters this is actually a stance that would harm them. And god knows there's few things that seem to impact their votes after RHI, corruption, racism etc. had little impact.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on October 12, 2023, 12:52:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2023, 12:44:28 PMIt's unreal that the DUP would rather NI wasn't represented in a UK & Ire project that would bring in £Ms to the local economy, just to be able to say fcuk you to the nationalist community. Part of me would love to see it happen and then see the whining when none of the games are held in NI. Bob, Rodney and William won't be happy seeing the partying in Dublin, London etc when it's on, and shining a light on this cesspit of a place. I honest think with the younger voters this is actually a stance that would harm them. And god knows there's few things that seem to impact their votes after RHI, corruption, racism etc. had little impact.
+ one fewer team to reserve a place for!
Just imagine the crying if OWC did manage to qualify and their group was centred on Cork.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2023, 07:52:01 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 06:17:08 PMJeffrey is not happy. Quelle surpise.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/jeffrey-donaldson-raises-big-questions-over-casement-park-funding-and-euro-2028/a942025444.html

Surely the IFA agreed  in advance with the other FA's  that the only way NI would be  included in the joint bid would  mean that  casement, and not Windsor,  would host games?

Why  did Jeffrey not have a  dig at them?

The pressure has come on from the no men.

The No men?

Well , that narrows it down  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 12, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.

Can you imagine OWC out of the bid and having croke or pairc UI chaoimh being used instead and NI missing the party. Has a party ever had so little strategy or forward thinking ever ;D

I wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on October 12, 2023, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PMI wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.

Croker?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2023, 12:44:28 PMIt's unreal that the DUP would rather NI wasn't represented in a UK & Ire project that would bring in £Ms to the local economy, just to be able to say fcuk you to the nationalist community. Part of me would love to see it happen and then see the whining when none of the games are held in NI. Bob, Rodney and William won't be happy seeing the partying in Dublin, London etc when it's on, and shining a light on this cesspit of a place. I honest think with the younger voters this is actually a stance that would harm them. And god knows there's few things that seem to impact their votes after RHI, corruption, racism etc. had little impact.

The thing is that the evidence in economics about the benefits of hosting sporting tournaments is that the economic benefits are mixed at best, especially if you have to build infrastructure.  There's a long list of places that built expensive infrastructure for tournaments thinking it was going to lead to long-term economic growth that failed to materialise.

A lot of the projected benefits of the Casement project are pretty much the same as was claimed for PuC in Cork before work was started. The only advantage of the Casement situation is that the GAA is on the hook for limited funds. If the Euro 2028 situation hadn't come around, the GAA would have been in serious bother with Casement.

[One a related note - the latest "hope" for PuC is that it will be debt-free by 2048. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41235151.html]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Estimator on October 12, 2023, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 12, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.

Can you imagine OWC out of the bid and having croke or pairc UI chaoimh being used instead and NI missing the party. Has a party ever had so little strategy or forward thinking ever ;D

I wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.

London is the only city with two stadiums nominated. If the organisers stick with that then they'd go to another different city.

To my mind the options would be either: Leeds or Sheffield to bridge the gap between the stadiums in Manchester and Newcastle or they could go south coast and pick either Brighton or Southampton.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on October 12, 2023, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PMI wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.

Croker?

Yeah I'd say Croker has the best chance of getting the games if Casement falls through. However if it's only one game the FAI might just use Aviva. It's very hard to see the England, Scotland, and Wales FAs being willing to give all 5 games to the FAI.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 02:10:34 PM
Quote from: Estimator on October 12, 2023, 02:07:25 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 12, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.

Can you imagine OWC out of the bid and having croke or pairc UI chaoimh being used instead and NI missing the party. Has a party ever had so little strategy or forward thinking ever ;D

I wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.

London is the only city with two stadiums nominated. If the organisers stick with that then they'd go to another different city.

To my mind the options would be either: Leeds or Sheffield to bridge the gap between the stadiums in Manchester and Newcastle or they could go south coast and pick either Brighton or Southampton.

I could definitely see them abandoning that rule in the "emergency situation" if Casement falls through. Doesn't seem like the most needed rule in an "emergency situation"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 12, 2023, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2023, 12:44:28 PMIt's unreal that the DUP would rather NI wasn't represented in a UK & Ire project that would bring in £Ms to the local economy, just to be able to say fcuk you to the nationalist community. Part of me would love to see it happen and then see the whining when none of the games are held in NI. Bob, Rodney and William won't be happy seeing the partying in Dublin, London etc when it's on, and shining a light on this cesspit of a place. I honest think with the younger voters this is actually a stance that would harm them. And god knows there's few things that seem to impact their votes after RHI, corruption, racism etc. had little impact.

The thing is that the evidence in economics about the benefits of hosting sporting tournaments is that the economic benefits are mixed at best, especially if you have to build infrastructure.  There's a long list of places that built expensive infrastructure for tournaments thinking it was going to lead to long-term economic growth that failed to materialise.

A lot of the projected benefits of the Casement project are pretty much the same as was claimed for PuC in Cork before work was started. The only advantage of the Casement situation is that the GAA is on the hook for limited funds. If the Euro 2028 situation hadn't come around, the GAA would have been in serious bother with Casement.

[One a related note - the latest "hope" for PuC is that it will be debt-free by 2048. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41235151.html]

A lot of the time you have imbeciles in charge. London worked out ok. The area around the Olympic park has been rejuvenated and obviously the Stadium is getting good use.
Casement will be well utilised and should help West Belfast / Belfast economically.
Building any huge infrastructure is always over budget and over time. We should just accept that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 02:57:18 PM
From a letter in the Newsletter

I would go further and say it will will cause serious traffic delays throughout Belfast, and even impact on commuters trying to leave Belfast to get home from work.

There will be major delays on the Westlink and the two motorways. It will be even worse when accidents occur; who is going to say there will not be accidents?


So there you go. Everyone just stay at home all of the time for fear of causing traffic or an accident.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 03:10:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 02:57:18 PMFrom a letter in the Newsletter

I would go further and say it will will cause serious traffic delays throughout Belfast, and even impact on commuters trying to leave Belfast to get home from work.

There will be major delays on the Westlink and the two motorways. It will be even worse when accidents occur; who is going to say there will not be accidents?


So there you go. Everyone just stay at home all of the time for fear of causing traffic or an accident.

What header put pen to paper on that one?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 03:16:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 03:10:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 02:57:18 PMFrom a letter in the Newsletter

I would go further and say it will will cause serious traffic delays throughout Belfast, and even impact on commuters trying to leave Belfast to get home from work.

There will be major delays on the Westlink and the two motorways. It will be even worse when accidents occur; who is going to say there will not be accidents?


So there you go. Everyone just stay at home all of the time for fear of causing traffic or an accident.

What header put pen to paper on that one?

Billy Dickson, local unionist community representative. He had an issue with dual signage around the Olympia leisure centre recently too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 05:26:58 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 12, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.

Can you imagine OWC out of the bid and having croke or pairc UI chaoimh being used instead and NI missing the party. Has a party ever had so little strategy or forward thinking ever ;D

I wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.

If Casement didn't happen because (or partly because) of the DUP, and  matches pencilled in for NI moved  to Britain, the DUP would  then  complain that NI  was being treated  differently  from the "rest of the UK".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 05:53:55 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 05:26:58 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 12, 2023, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 12, 2023, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2023, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 11, 2023, 12:55:33 PMI honestly don't think it will be built in time.

Ack 2 years put a quare hole in it.

Like I said, it's not getting built in time.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2023/10/11/news/jeffrey_donaldson_says_dup_may_seek_to_veto_extra_casement_park_cash-3691238/?param=ds441rif44T)

Part of me hopes he's successful. I don't think he will be, he nor his party won't stop it. But they're so f**king mind-numbingly stupid to see how counterproductive a stance like this is.

Can you imagine OWC out of the bid and having croke or pairc UI chaoimh being used instead and NI missing the party. Has a party ever had so little strategy or forward thinking ever ;D

I wonder what the contingency is if Casement falls through. Northern Ireland is due to get 5 games according to the media. I'd say the likeliest scenario is the the 5 games allocated to Northern Ireland would be split amongst Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Would seem easiest in terms of logistics/crowds/timing etc.

If Casement didn't happen because (or partly because) of the DUP, and  matches pencilled in for NI moved  to Britain, the DUP would  then  complain that NI  was being treated  differently  from the "rest of the UK".
I thought the whole point of the SOS basically saying it would definitely go ahead was a big "f**k you" to the DUP for not playing ball.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-65637275.amp
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on October 12, 2023, 06:41:54 PM
I see they are rolling out Kate Hoey on The View tonight to have a good old whinge about it. Expect more dirty play.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 10:53:28 PM
Not get some leading GAA figure on it, to put up their side. Knowing Cahir played for, Drum, I expect him to turn round and pole axe David Jeffery lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 10:54:04 PM
A sport which is not football!! Tuh Tuh Tuh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 10:59:46 PM
General agreement that the Freestate taxpayer spending a load of money is a good idea.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 11:05:21 PM
I love to know where they think the GAA has all the money, outside of paying managers/trainers 95% of the organisation is still amateur. They wouldn't have much more money to throw at this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NotedObserver on October 12, 2023, 11:12:46 PM
Embarrassing on the view from Jeffrey and hoey
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on October 12, 2023, 11:13:15 PM
Didn't realise Kate Hoey was so concerned about grassroots football in NI.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on October 12, 2023, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on October 12, 2023, 11:12:46 PMEmbarrassing on the view from Jeffrey and hoey

What did they say?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 13, 2023, 03:22:13 AM
if casement park  is not built then republic should get a 2nd venue would that make the dup wise up  pairc Chaoimh   should be put on stand by or give aviva more games. dup should be warned  its casement or republic does the dup want to help the republic economy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on October 13, 2023, 05:42:50 AM
Quote from: NotedObserver on October 12, 2023, 11:12:46 PMEmbarrassing on the view from Jeffrey and hoey

I don't think Big Davy's view is embarrassing at all. Much be pretty hard to take though. The biggest tournament to ever come here and they're looking to build a stadium that'll suit the GAA once the tournament is long gone. We would do serious complaining if it was the other way as well.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 13, 2023, 05:47:09 AM
could northern ireland not have matches against big teams be played at casement or is the gaa scared incase a few idiots vandalise it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 13, 2023, 07:51:49 AM
Belfast Telegraph
John Laverty
Casement Park should change its name to 'Dundonald Ice Bowl'
There'd be guaranteed funding, proper timeline... and no objections
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nanderson on October 13, 2023, 09:06:44 AM
I'd absolutely love it if Casement gets built in time and it rubs themmuns up the wrong way. The next best alternative is the organisers to say f**k northern ireland and elect a new stadium in the south or in mainland Britain. Unionists parties think the alternative is an upgrade to Windsor which won't happen in the slightest
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GoldCoastRossie on October 13, 2023, 09:50:23 AM
Reading it back in my day job capacity as the PM for major Construction projects in a government dept. down south involved in tendering etc, those timelines are wildly optimistic and unrealistic even before you get an interdepartmental and cross border steering group involved along with other stakeholders and the amount of paperwork and governance DPER will require. Construction inflation is dipping slowly but all pretender estimates have been wildly optimistic the last few competitions.

Any extra's or variations or cost orders will bogged down in paperwork and bureaucracy. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 09:54:07 AM
Quote from: GoldCoastRossie on October 13, 2023, 09:50:23 AMReading it back in my day job capacity as the PM for major Construction projects in a government dept. down south involved in tendering etc, those timelines are wildly optimistic and unrealistic even before you get an interdepartmental and cross border steering group involved along with other stakeholders and the amount of paperwork and governance DPER will require. Construction inflation is dipping slowly but all pretender estimates have been wildly optimistic the last few competitions.

Any extra's or variations or cost orders will bogged down in paperwork and bureaucracy. 

Reading that its a wonder anything is built at all!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on October 13, 2023, 10:46:54 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 13, 2023, 05:42:50 AM
Quote from: NotedObserver on October 12, 2023, 11:12:46 PMEmbarrassing on the view from Jeffrey and hoey

I don't think Big Davy's view is embarrassing at all. Much be pretty hard to take though. The biggest tournament to ever come here and they're looking to build a stadium that'll suit the GAA once the tournament is long gone. We would do serious complaining if it was the other way as well.

Their short sightedness comes back to bite them again. The Maze/Long Kesh stadium plan had it's faults but we wouldn't be having these conversations now if they'd shown a bit of forward thinking, but hey give all our money to Linfield for an upgrade on a stadium that doesn't meet the basic of UEFA standards and then complain later.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on October 13, 2023, 12:44:00 PM
Quote from: GoldCoastRossie on October 13, 2023, 09:50:23 AMReading it back in my day job capacity as the PM for major Construction projects in a government dept. down south involved in tendering etc, those timelines are wildly optimistic and unrealistic even before you get an interdepartmental and cross border steering group involved along with other stakeholders and the amount of paperwork and governance DPER will require. Construction inflation is dipping slowly but all pretender estimates have been wildly optimistic the last few competitions.

Any extra's or variations or cost orders will bogged down in paperwork and bureaucracy. 

From what I have been told, all of this is in place in the background and as soon as the money is made available it will hit the ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on October 13, 2023, 02:03:23 PM
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41244790.html


ÁIRC Uí Chaoimh should '100%' be the natural option for Euro 2028 games should Belfast's Casement Park not be ready in time for the opening of the tournament, the Labour Party candidate in Cork City South East Peter Horgan has suggested.

The Labour Party candidate for next year's local elections said that the Cork GAA HQ should have been included in Ireland's part of the joint bid with the UK to host the finals of the European Championships in 2028.

Casement Park in west Belfast is at the centre of a political dispute between Northern Irish parties as both Sinn Féin and the SDLP are anxious to press ahead with the transformation of the Co. Antrim GAA headquarters, which has lain dormant since 2013 when it was last used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 13, 2023, 03:27:24 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 13, 2023, 02:03:23 PMhttps://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41244790.html


ÁIRC Uí Chaoimh should '100%' be the natural option for Euro 2028 games should Belfast's Casement Park not be ready in time for the opening of the tournament, the Labour Party candidate in Cork City South East Peter Horgan has suggested.

The Labour Party candidate for next year's local elections said that the Cork GAA HQ should have been included in Ireland's part of the joint bid with the UK to host the finals of the European Championships in 2028.

Casement Park in west Belfast is at the centre of a political dispute between Northern Irish parties as both Sinn Féin and the SDLP are anxious to press ahead with the transformation of the Co. Antrim GAA headquarters, which has lain dormant since 2013 when it was last used.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (maybe here) that an absolute tonne of work would be needed to bring PuC up to UEFA requirements. Based on what I read I don't think PuC has much of a chance of replacing Casement if any.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 13, 2023, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 12, 2023, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 12, 2023, 02:03:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 12, 2023, 12:44:28 PMIt's unreal that the DUP would rather NI wasn't represented in a UK & Ire project that would bring in £Ms to the local economy, just to be able to say fcuk you to the nationalist community. Part of me would love to see it happen and then see the whining when none of the games are held in NI. Bob, Rodney and William won't be happy seeing the partying in Dublin, London etc when it's on, and shining a light on this cesspit of a place. I honest think with the younger voters this is actually a stance that would harm them. And god knows there's few things that seem to impact their votes after RHI, corruption, racism etc. had little impact.

The thing is that the evidence in economics about the benefits of hosting sporting tournaments is that the economic benefits are mixed at best, especially if you have to build infrastructure.  There's a long list of places that built expensive infrastructure for tournaments thinking it was going to lead to long-term economic growth that failed to materialise.

A lot of the projected benefits of the Casement project are pretty much the same as was claimed for PuC in Cork before work was started. The only advantage of the Casement situation is that the GAA is on the hook for limited funds. If the Euro 2028 situation hadn't come around, the GAA would have been in serious bother with Casement.

[One a related note - the latest "hope" for PuC is that it will be debt-free by 2048. https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41235151.html]

A lot of the time you have imbeciles in charge. London worked out ok. The area around the Olympic park has been rejuvenated and obviously the Stadium is getting good use.
Casement will be well utilised and should help West Belfast / Belfast economically.
Building any huge infrastructure is always over budget and over time. We should just accept that.


Funny you mention the Olympic Park, given the disaster it has turned out to be for the taxpayer while the West Ham owners are making out like literal bandits. Also I don't think comparing London and Belfast makes any sort of sense given the relative scales of population.

Also while Casement will get some use, like all GAA stadiums it's likely that it will seldom,if ever be full and the vast majority of occasions it's used, the crowd is likely to be a small fraction of the overall capacity. It will help West Belfast economically but it's not like there's going to be a massive dividend, especially after the Euros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on October 13, 2023, 04:46:40 PM
I would urge all from the South to watch that programme last night and it will give you just a very small idea of the sectarian bile we've had to put up with. Kate Hoey just couldn't hide her hatred for anything GAA it seeped from her pours and big Geoff wasn't much better.
Please get this built and what i'd love more than anything is the Irish Government to simply say "Guys how much more do you need to finish this" and pay. this will sicken them to their core ( I know that's not how it works but wishful thinking).
They think that after the tournament they'll be like handing it back over to the GAA...WTF. It's more like we're lending you this for a few weeks so don't let the door hit you on the way out...thanks. £60m for Dundonald Ice Bowl and the DUP standing clapping each other outside it yesterday and the shite we've had to put up with this for 12 years is a disgrace. Ulster need it and Antrim GAA need it, get it built and rub their noses in it by re-naming in Gerry Adams Park...lol. (That's a joke BTW)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on October 13, 2023, 11:08:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 13, 2023, 07:51:49 AMBelfast Telegraph
John Laverty
Casement Park should change its name to 'Dundonald Ice Bowl'
There'd be guaranteed funding, proper timeline... and no objections

Did Laverty ever play gaelic football or hurling?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 11:17:31 PM
Quote from: GoldCoastRossie on October 13, 2023, 09:50:23 AMReading it back in my day job capacity as the PM for major Construction projects in a government dept. down south involved in tendering etc, those timelines are wildly optimistic and unrealistic even before you get an interdepartmental and cross border steering group involved along with other stakeholders and the amount of paperwork and governance DPER will require. Construction inflation is dipping slowly but all pretender estimates have been wildly optimistic the last few competitions.

Any extra's or variations or cost orders will bogged down in paperwork and bureaucracy. 

This post is whats wrong with industry these days.

Get the Chinese in, it will be built in a week
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on October 14, 2023, 02:19:42 PM
I can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure I read this scheme will not be going back out to tender and initial Principal Contractor to take the reins on. I'm sure other Contractors will object to this... My memory is rank rotten but did a Contractor go bust from previous tender stage?. Or was that a Subbie?. This thing has went on that long with that many obstacles and hurdles I have forgotten half the stuff. I had a really strong interest in this was back but lost interest in it a while back🤦�♂️
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on October 14, 2023, 03:47:49 PM
See a 'No Casement' banner behind goals at Are We A Country match at the Bigot dome and the scum singing 'You can stick your Casement Park up your hole'. Lovely people.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 14, 2023, 05:52:56 PM
Here, nobody would have nothing to cry about if they allowed the Maze stadia to be built years ago.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2023, 07:29:46 PM
What's the issue with it? The name ? The location? Both?

If it's location well how do people think nationalists feel going to Windsor park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nanderson on October 14, 2023, 07:39:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2023, 07:29:46 PMWhat's the issue with it? The name ? The location? Both?

If it's location well how do people think nationalists feel going to Windsor park.
too taigy of a place for unionists to want to spend a few hours. also they dont want to see the GAA get handouts from their UK government
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on October 15, 2023, 12:21:59 AM
They're some craic.
They're also (those singing) a bunch of stupid bastards.
They chose pumping money into Linfield's stadium rather than have a brand new 40k shared arena that would not only have been built by now; but would also be shortlisted for hosting one of the world's biggest sporting events.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on October 15, 2023, 12:28:40 AM
It's almost worth casement not getting built and having the tournament played everywhere else but the wee 6 and NI fail to qualify. F@ck them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on October 15, 2023, 09:14:31 AM
There is an ever-shrinking section of unionism, who are some of the most unreasonable people on the planet. The rest of unionism has consistently failed to call this out. Though many are embarrassed by it , they're either afraid to call it out( they'll be called Lundies) or say nothing as this bullying has been effective for years. But they're running out of road .  They could have had a world-leading 40k stadium in their heartland , in the most accessible are of the north, but they went on their own. Despite residents reasonable opposition to Casement , political issues also contributed to delay .
The NI team and their support pulls from a small pool , but supporters and their representatives are still prepared to antagonise the majority of the feeder population. Supposedly intelligent politicians like Kate Hoey with experience of London Olympic athletic stadium being offered to Soccer club, West Ham, won't countenance Casement hosting soccer then GAA. Despite her stadium "expertise" and regular attendance at Windsor Park, She pretends she thinks there's scope to turn Windsor into a 30k stadium overnight . I hope I'm wrong but sadly , unionist bullying has worked for years and there's a real chance it'll work again🤦🏻
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 15, 2023, 10:31:18 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on October 15, 2023, 09:14:31 AMThere is an ever-shrinking section of unionism, who are some of the most unreasonable people on the planet. The rest of unionism has consistently failed to call this out. Though many are embarrassed by it , they're either afraid to call it out( they'll be called Lundies) or say nothing as this bullying has been effective for years. But they're running out of road .  They could have had a world-leading 40k stadium in their heartland , in the most accessible are of the north, but they went on their own. Despite residents reasonable opposition to Casement , political issues also contributed to delay .
The NI team and their support pulls from a small pool , but supporters and their representatives are still prepared to antagonise the majority of the feeder population. Supposedly intelligent politicians like Kate Hoey with experience of London Olympic athletic stadium being offered to Soccer club, West Ham, won't countenance Casement hosting soccer then GAA. Despite her stadium "expertise" and regular attendance at Windsor Park, She pretends she thinks there's scope to turn Windsor into a 30k stadium overnight . I hope I'm wrong but sadly , unionist bullying has worked for years and there's a real chance it'll work again🤦🏻

You'd think it has to go ahead.

Too much input now for it not to.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 15, 2023, 10:37:25 AM
That Kate Hoey seems the ultimate bigot.
Of course the ones with the Irish Catholic surnames are always the worst of them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on October 15, 2023, 11:50:57 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2023, 07:29:46 PMWhat's the issue with it? The name ? The location? Both?

If it's location well how do people think nationalists feel going to Windsor park.
Do you think they give a f**k about the nationalists lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 16, 2023, 11:39:53 AM
Heard that GAA might be prepared to double their commitment to £30m with Irish Gov also coughing up some cash.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 16, 2023, 02:00:23 PM
Firstly on the idea of a "national stadium" no matter where it was built it would have been an anathema tomany if not most GAA fans and Soccer and Rugby could not have filled it often enough to make the atmosphere or the economics viable. On Casement there is no reason why it can't be or shouldn't be used for ulster Finals and semi's. Belfast has done park and rides for many events and as someone else has alluded you won't get parking near the ground so you will have to use the services provided. NI Fans on Saturday once again reminding us why it is a team for one community only, despite attempts by the IFA to spin and whitewash. There is also no reason why a new Casement couldn't also be used for large-scale rugby fixtures including internationals. I'm not from Belfast but it seems to me that lurking below all the efforts to disparage the Casement project is an attempt to continue the historic demonisation of the good people of West Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on October 16, 2023, 02:07:19 PM
A partner to the main contractor who had experience of building stadiums and actually was working on Anfield at the time of going bust has obviously been dropped from the programme.

The main contractor remains in place and confident of ability to deliver. I don't think this is main stumbling block at this point, had it been started and they went bust then I think it may have been.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on October 16, 2023, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2023, 02:00:23 PMThere is also no reason why a new Casement couldn't also be used for large-scale rugby fixtures including internationals.

I'd imagine the IRFU have no interest whatsoever in holding international games in Belfast - Aviva is just a far better proposition in terms of making money for them. Really struggling to imagine any sort of scenario where the IRFU would be interesting in holding any international in Casement. The last time Ireland played an international in Ravenhill was 2007 and prior to that was 1954.

Maybe some club games might be a possibility but I would imagine that it would be a fairly infrequent occurence to see rugby in Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2023, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on October 16, 2023, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2023, 02:00:23 PMThere is also no reason why a new Casement couldn't also be used for large-scale rugby fixtures including internationals.

I'd imagine the IRFU have no interest whatsoever in holding international games in Belfast - Aviva is just a far better proposition in terms of making money for them. Really struggling to imagine any sort of scenario where the IRFU would be interesting in holding any international in Casement. The last time Ireland played an international in Ravenhill was 2007 and prior to that was 1954.

Maybe some club games might be a possibility but I would imagine that it would be a fairly infrequent occurence to see rugby in Casement.

There could be the lowly European competitions played there, Féile an Phobail will have plenty of events there every summer also. There will also be bands coming. There will be some calculation to show what it needs to break even each year and thats all that matters   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2023, 10:45:10 AM
Digger on site this morning!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2023, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 31, 2023, 10:45:10 AMDigger on site this morning!

Exploratory works, no doubt. But a good sign.

Quote from: twohands!!! on October 16, 2023, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 16, 2023, 02:00:23 PMThere is also no reason why a new Casement couldn't also be used for large-scale rugby fixtures including internationals.

I'd imagine the IRFU have no interest whatsoever in holding international games in Belfast - Aviva is just a far better proposition in terms of making money for them. Really struggling to imagine any sort of scenario where the IRFU would be interesting in holding any international in Casement. The last time Ireland played an international in Ravenhill was 2007 and prior to that was 1954.

Maybe some club games might be a possibility but I would imagine that it would be a fairly infrequent occurence to see rugby in Casement.

The Rugby world cup idea will come around again though, although that would a once off.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 01:04:03 PM
A UK Ireland bid for a world cup will certainly involve the possibility of using Casement as a venue
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PM
Pairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?

You been to Clones lately? You wouldn't let your dog pee in it..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on October 31, 2023, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?

Reactor No.4 at Chernobyl is in better shape that Clones.
Why can't we have a modern fit for purpose stadium to host our games? What have Irish people got against improving facilities?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on October 31, 2023, 03:43:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 03:36:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?

Reactor No.4 at Chernobyl is in better shape that Clones.
Why can't we have a modern fit for purpose stadium to host our games? What have Irish people got against improving facilities?

Yeah, be good to get it done.

Hopefully, this tournament gives it the impetus to push it through, with funding from various agencies.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on October 31, 2023, 06:20:40 PM
Had some great times as a supporter in Clones over the years but it's had it's day. It was in a poor state the last time I was in it for the Ulster Club Final last year and would need a lot of money to upgrade it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2023, 07:53:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?

Clones is very very. Very. Broke.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardtole on October 31, 2023, 08:05:30 PM
I was in Clones for the Down v Armagh game last summer. Its no longer fit for purpose. I was in Breffini for the Down v Cavan Tailtain cup game and its much better in my opinion. Not sure what the capacity is though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thebuzz on October 31, 2023, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: ardtole on October 31, 2023, 08:05:30 PMI was in Clones for the Down v Armagh game last summer. Its no longer fit for purpose. I was in Breffini for the Down v Cavan Tailtain cup game and its much better in my opinion. Not sure what the capacity is though.
I hope Casement gets built but I can never imagine feeling as relaxed on summer day around Andy Town as I have been in Clones having a beer and a bit of craic before or after a match.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardtole on November 01, 2023, 07:33:11 AM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 31, 2023, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: ardtole on October 31, 2023, 08:05:30 PMI was in Clones for the Down v Armagh game last summer. Its no longer fit for purpose. I was in Breffini for the Down v Cavan Tailtain cup game and its much better in my opinion. Not sure what the capacity is though.
I hope Casement gets built but I can never imagine feeling as relaxed on summer day around Andy Town as I have been in Clones having a beer and a bit of craic before or after a match.

I had the same nostalgic memories prior to this summer. I was also in Thurles for the Down v Tipp Tailtain cup double header with the Munster hurling game between tipp and Limerick, the contrast in facilities etc is stark. Clones has been left to rot.

It was pissing rain and all they had was a horsebox with a big thing you would see at a wake for making tea. Cash only no card facilities etc. Its time has passed.
Armagh hammered us too which I'll hold my hands up and admit, it didn't help the situation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Snapchap on November 01, 2023, 07:40:26 AM
Quote from: ardtole on November 01, 2023, 07:33:11 AMCash only no card facilities etc.
In a world where most places are moving towards the opposite scenario, I know which I'd prefer!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on November 01, 2023, 07:52:18 AM
Unfortunately Clones is a ruin. No money spent on it in 30 years. The facilities are 3rd world. Yes on a sunny hot day its great in the town soaking up the atmosphere. But how many of those days are there.
Casement is needed badly.sooner it's built the better.  No reason why it can't host a lot more games in future. If 2 northern teams are in a league final or take the dubs up to it for all Ireland series. Concerts etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 01, 2023, 09:31:04 AM
Clones in not up for debate, this pops up all the time and has so for 10 years. The grant money is for Casement, not Clones, not Armagh, not Tyrone, not Derry, not Monaghan, not Cavan, not Donegal, not Fermanagh, not Down...just fecking Casement in Antrim. Always has been and always will be until it's built, if GAA wants to do something with Clones then they can knock themselves out and fund it 100% themselves. So there you have it, it's Casement or nothing. Until the next time someone suggest we improve some other GAA ground instead of Casement...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 01, 2023, 09:42:40 AM
Quote from: illdecide on November 01, 2023, 09:31:04 AMClones in not up for debate, this pops up all the time and has so for 10 years. The grant money is for Casement, not Clones, not Armagh, not Tyrone, not Derry, not Monaghan, not Cavan, not Donegal, not Fermanagh, not Down...just fecking Casement in Antrim. Always has been and always will be until it's built, if GAA wants to do something with Clones then they can knock themselves out and fund it 100% themselves. So there you have it, it's Casement or nothing. Until the next time someone suggest we improve some other GAA ground instead of Casement...
Something needs done with Clones Casement or no Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2023, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: snoopdog on November 01, 2023, 07:52:18 AMtake the dubs up to it for all Ireland series.

And risk them getting beaten.....
Maybe for the neutral venue Round 3 game but certainly not the subsequent knock out games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardtole on November 01, 2023, 09:58:14 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 01, 2023, 07:40:26 AM
Quote from: ardtole on November 01, 2023, 07:33:11 AMCash only no card facilities etc.
In a world where most places are moving towards the opposite scenario, I know which I'd prefer!

If you are afforded the option in Thurles, at a munster championship match of similar stature to the ulster semi final, then patrons in Ulster should have similar options. Paying plenty of money in ticket prices for a start.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 01, 2023, 10:24:41 AM
So according to todays Irish News the digger had nothing to do with work starting  :(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?

You been to Clones lately? You wouldn't let your dog pee in it..
How much would it cost to bring Clones up to the Standard of Tom Semple's field ? Hardly whatever the inflating price for Casement is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 01, 2023, 11:36:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPairc Ui chaoimh was dollied up and struggls to pay its way in a dual county in a strong province. Is it really worth dolling up Casement as a 40k all seater for a soccer tournament, a once off? A dog is for life, not just for Christmas and Clones ain't broke so why fix it?

You been to Clones lately? You wouldn't let your dog pee in it..
How much would it cost to bring Clones up to the Standard of Tom Semple's field ? Hardly whatever the inflating price for Casement is.
The money isn't for Clones. Will never be. Why do you not understand that? It's not all GAA money. They can't direct it to Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 12:19:42 PM
One of the problems in the GAA now  is marquee grounds.  Galway used to have Ballinasloe for county hurling,  Tuam for county football  and Pairc na Gaoithe in Salthill for both. Then Salthill was redeveloped and needed to be funded so the matches happen there now and the other 2 have been more or less ignored. 

Pairc UI Chaoimh cost a lot to redevelop and it still isn't self funding

This is all part of the financialisation of the GAA.

Spending a fortune on Casement because there is a grant covering part of the cost is like getting a voucher of £10 for something you didn't need and then spending £100 on it.

And the cost is only one part. The running of the place is probably more important in the long run.
There is a reason why soccer and rugby infrastructure on the island is relatively poor compared to other countries. Because the IRFU/FAI don''t have the cashflow to support anything else and they can't afford white elephants.

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/top-20-stadiums-in-ireland-by-capacity/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PM
This discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 01, 2023, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 12:19:42 PMOne of the problems in the GAA now  is marquee grounds.  Galway used to have Ballinasloe for county hurling,  Tuam for county football  and Pairc na Gaoithe in Salthill for both. Then Salthill was redeveloped and needed to be funded so the matches happen there now and the other 2 have been more or less ignored. 

Pairc UI Chaoimh cost a lot to redevelop and it still isn't self funding

This is all part of the financialisation of the GAA.

Spending a fortune on Casement because there is a grant covering part of the cost is like getting a voucher of £10 for something you didn't need and then spending £100 on it.

And the cost is only one part. The running of the place is probably more important in the long run.
There is a reason why soccer and rugby infrastructure on the island is relatively poor compared to other countries. Because the IRFU/FAI don''t have the cashflow to support anything else and they can't afford white elephants.

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/top-20-stadiums-in-ireland-by-capacity/

Relax, don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2023, 12:54:53 PM
There is not a snowflake in hells chance Stormont are going to give money to a project in another jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 01, 2023, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 12:19:42 PMOne of the problems in the GAA now  is marquee grounds.  Galway used to have Ballinasloe for county hurling,  Tuam for county football  and Pairc na Gaoithe in Salthill for both. Then Salthill was redeveloped and needed to be funded so the matches happen there now and the other 2 have been more or less ignored. 

Pairc UI Chaoimh cost a lot to redevelop and it still isn't self funding

This is all part of the financialisation of the GAA.

Spending a fortune on Casement because there is a grant covering part of the cost is like getting a voucher of £10 for something you didn't need and then spending £100 on it.

And the cost is only one part. The running of the place is probably more important in the long run.
There is a reason why soccer and rugby infrastructure on the island is relatively poor compared to other countries. Because the IRFU/FAI don''t have the cashflow to support anything else and they can't afford white elephants.

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/top-20-stadiums-in-ireland-by-capacity/

So what would the costs be of redeveloping Clones? And let's be clear, it would take a significant investment. Compare that to the GAA's input into Casement. That's the figures you need to look at. Plus Clones, while in poor state, is operational. Casement isn't.
If you need to eat, and have a voucher for somewhere, you'd best use it before it goes out of date.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on November 01, 2023, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 12:19:42 PMOne of the problems in the GAA now  is marquee grounds.  Galway used to have Ballinasloe for county hurling,  Tuam for county football  and Pairc na Gaoithe in Salthill for both. Then Salthill was redeveloped and needed to be funded so the matches happen there now and the other 2 have been more or less ignored. 

Pairc UI Chaoimh cost a lot to redevelop and it still isn't self funding

This is all part of the financialisation of the GAA.

Spending a fortune on Casement because there is a grant covering part of the cost is like getting a voucher of £10 for something you didn't need and then spending £100 on it.

And the cost is only one part. The running of the place is probably more important in the long run.
There is a reason why soccer and rugby infrastructure on the island is relatively poor compared to other countries. Because the IRFU/FAI don''t have the cashflow to support anything else and they can't afford white elephants.

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/top-20-stadiums-in-ireland-by-capacity/

Or more accurately getting a voucher for £85 for something you do need and spending £100 on it

Which makes perfect sense to anyone

Especially when the alternative is to burn the voucher and spend the £15 polishing the turd you already have
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: naka on November 01, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PMThis discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D

clones is a horrendous stadium and an awful location for a provincial ground.
gaa should have pumped the monies into  armagh and built it up or even newry to say 33k
casement given the mess we are in , within North is genuinely a waste of monies
everything seems broken and the pushing for say 80million oftaxpayers monies just doesnt seem right it it comes to the detriment of essential services
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 01, 2023, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: naka on November 01, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PMThis discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D

clones is a horrendous stadium and an awful location for a provincial ground.
gaa should have pumped the monies into  armagh and built it up or even newry to say 33k
casement given the mess we are in , within North is genuinely a waste of monies
everything seems broken and the pushing for say 80million oftaxpayers monies just doesnt seem right it it comes to the detriment of essential services

Casement is a better venue to develop non footballing revenue. Concerts, Corporate meetings. Belfast has hotels and other infrastructure that Armagh, Newry and Derry doesn't.
It isn't a waste of taxpayers money. We'll have a brand new stadium and the European championships that will bring a huge boost to Belfast and NI. There'll be a huge boost for the people of West Belfast as well.

Casement, no matter the cost needs to be built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 01, 2023, 04:49:10 PM
Correct, they have done their case studies and are confident that corporate events, meetings, concerts etc will sustain the stadium not to mention jobs for some locals (who want a job) and the economy. Ohh and the most important thing is the games in the stadium...Get that 40N Concrete ready
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2023, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 01, 2023, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: naka on November 01, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PMThis discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D

clones is a horrendous stadium and an awful location for a provincial ground.
gaa should have pumped the monies into  armagh and built it up or even newry to say 33k
casement given the mess we are in , within North is genuinely a waste of monies
everything seems broken and the pushing for say 80million oftaxpayers monies just doesnt seem right it it comes to the detriment of essential services

Casement is a better venue to develop non footballing revenue. Concerts, Corporate meetings. Belfast has hotels and other infrastructure that Armagh, Newry and Derry doesn't.
It isn't a waste of taxpayers money. We'll have a brand new stadium and the European championships that will bring a huge boost to Belfast and NI. There'll be a huge boost for the people of West Belfast as well.

Casement, no matter the cost needs to be built.

The North is not stable enough to assume a regular stream of concerts and corporate meetings. Corporate investment is homeopathic compared to the South because of political instability. The DUP do not care about things like economic growth or Taylor Swift's arse.

The Casement Project needs a BRAUNS analysis

Benefits
Risks
Alternatives
Unknowns
What if they do nothing
And a Safety net in case it goes tits up

this analysis is standard in hospitals in the North
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on November 02, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2023, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 01, 2023, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: naka on November 01, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PMThis discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D

clones is a horrendous stadium and an awful location for a provincial ground.
gaa should have pumped the monies into  armagh and built it up or even newry to say 33k
casement given the mess we are in , within North is genuinely a waste of monies
everything seems broken and the pushing for say 80million oftaxpayers monies just doesnt seem right it it comes to the detriment of essential services

Casement is a better venue to develop non footballing revenue. Concerts, Corporate meetings. Belfast has hotels and other infrastructure that Armagh, Newry and Derry doesn't.
It isn't a waste of taxpayers money. We'll have a brand new stadium and the European championships that will bring a huge boost to Belfast and NI. There'll be a huge boost for the people of West Belfast as well.

Casement, no matter the cost needs to be built.

The North is not stable enough to assume a regular stream of concerts and corporate meetings. Corporate investment is homeopathic compared to the South because of political instability. The DUP do not care about things like economic growth or Taylor Swift's arse.

The Casement Project needs a BRAUNS analysis

Benefits
Risks
Alternatives
Unknowns
What if they do nothing
And a Safety net in case it goes tits up

this analysis is standard in hospitals in the North

Eh?

The North already assumes a 'regular stream of concerts and corporate meetings'

Providing this is built, it will 'assume' hosting the European Championships

The success of any project is inversely proportional to the number of corporate acronyms employed in its delivery

Though we could make room for a SEAFOID analysis on this one

S pews
E xcrement
A nd
F olly
O n the
I nternet
D aily
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 02, 2023, 01:09:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 02, 2023, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2023, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 01, 2023, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: naka on November 01, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PMThis discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D

clones is a horrendous stadium and an awful location for a provincial ground.
gaa should have pumped the monies into  armagh and built it up or even newry to say 33k
casement given the mess we are in , within North is genuinely a waste of monies
everything seems broken and the pushing for say 80million oftaxpayers monies just doesnt seem right it it comes to the detriment of essential services

Casement is a better venue to develop non footballing revenue. Concerts, Corporate meetings. Belfast has hotels and other infrastructure that Armagh, Newry and Derry doesn't.
It isn't a waste of taxpayers money. We'll have a brand new stadium and the European championships that will bring a huge boost to Belfast and NI. There'll be a huge boost for the people of West Belfast as well.

Casement, no matter the cost needs to be built.

The North is not stable enough to assume a regular stream of concerts and corporate meetings. Corporate investment is homeopathic compared to the South because of political instability. The DUP do not care about things like economic growth or Taylor Swift's arse.

The Casement Project needs a BRAUNS analysis

Benefits
Risks
Alternatives
Unknowns
What if they do nothing
And a Safety net in case it goes tits up

this analysis is standard in hospitals in the North

Eh?

The North already assumes a 'regular stream of concerts and corporate meetings'

Providing this is built, it will 'assume' hosting the European Championships

The success of any project is inversely proportional to the number of corporate acronyms employed in its delivery

Though we could make room for a SEAFOID analysis on this one

S pews
E xcrement
A nd
F olly
O n the
I nternet
D aily

LOL
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 02, 2023, 01:13:03 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tonto1888 on November 02, 2023, 01:23:27 PM
Brilliant
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 02, 2023, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2023, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 01, 2023, 04:41:46 PM
Quote from: naka on November 01, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 01, 2023, 12:23:40 PMThis discussion has been going round in circles for years. Clones getting the funding keeps coming up for some reason as if that was ever likely. In fairness it would be worth it just to see the DUP outrage and general losing their shit. It would be on an epic proportion if GB money was going to a foreign land ;D

clones is a horrendous stadium and an awful location for a provincial ground.
gaa should have pumped the monies into  armagh and built it up or even newry to say 33k
casement given the mess we are in , within North is genuinely a waste of monies
everything seems broken and the pushing for say 80million oftaxpayers monies just doesnt seem right it it comes to the detriment of essential services

Casement is a better venue to develop non footballing revenue. Concerts, Corporate meetings. Belfast has hotels and other infrastructure that Armagh, Newry and Derry doesn't.
It isn't a waste of taxpayers money. We'll have a brand new stadium and the European championships that will bring a huge boost to Belfast and NI. There'll be a huge boost for the people of West Belfast as well.

Casement, no matter the cost needs to be built.

The North is not stable enough to assume a regular stream of concerts and corporate meetings. Corporate investment is homeopathic compared to the South because of political instability. The DUP do not care about things like economic growth or Taylor Swift's arse.

The Casement Project needs a BRAUNS analysis

Benefits
Risks
Alternatives
Unknowns
What if they do nothing
And a Safety net in case it goes tits up

this analysis is standard in hospitals in the North
Cause they're so successful...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 04:11:00 PM
How much debt will Antrim Co Board/The Ulster council be left with ?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41235151.html

"Cork GAA is optimistic the new 25-year financial model for Páirc Uí Chaoimh will enable the stadium to be debt free by 2048.

At the core of this new financial plan for the debt burdened Páirc Uí Chaoimh, approved by Central Council earlier this month, is a more favourable interest rate that will be "more in line with GAA funding, as opposed to bank rates".

Bank debt arising from the stadium redevelopment stood at €21,056,000 as of last September. Annual loan repayments of €1.1m were being made to service that total. Money owed by Cork county board to Croke Park, meanwhile, stood at €7,763,722.

The two figures combined reach almost €29m, but county board secretary Kevin O'Donovan said in his annual report last December that legacy debt from the stadium redevelopment rests well above the €30m mark."


PuC was paying around 5%. There is no DUP in Cork so there is no political risk in running anything and it is still difficult to pay the bills. The builders don't care. They get paid anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 04:18:29 PM
Antrim are actually debt free at the moment, Casement was 'taken' by the Ulster Council so that will be a province issue in regards to any debt that may happen..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 03, 2023, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 01, 2023, 04:49:10 PMCorrect, they have done their case studies and are confident that corporate events, meetings, concerts etc will sustain the stadium not to mention jobs for some locals (who want a job) and the economy. Ohh and the most important thing is the games in the stadium...Get that 40N Concrete ready

I heard the exact same thing about Pairc Ui Chaoimh from Cork People.
Then it came out when the EU went looking into it because it was getting government money that there was no business plan whatsoever.

Even if Ulster GAA do have a business plan lying around,  I'd be pretty sure it was just a case of creating one after they had already decided to go ahead and build, as opposed to doing a proper one which would be looking at the situation and seeing if the numbers add up beforehand and being willing to abandon the project if they don't.

I wouldn't be surprised if the sort of thing that happened to Cork's finances happens to Ulster GAA once the stadium is complete as happened to Cork - higher costs to finish the stadium then higher operating costs than expected followed by lower revenues than expected leading to other areas being cut-to the bone. Stormont,The Dail and Croke Park will all say we gave a pile of money for the stadium, don't come looking for anything else for a long while. I wonder what the Ulster GAA equivalent of the Cork footballers having to paint and set-up their own gym in a shed will be?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 04:31:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 04:18:29 PMAntrim are actually debt free at the moment, Casement was 'taken' by the Ulster Council so that will be a province issue in regards to any debt that may happen..
What sort of modelling of interest rate risk has been done?
Rates are much higher  now than when PuC was relaunched.
PUC needed a hand with interest from Croke Park.
Debt is not a straightforward solution.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 04:52:01 PM
Where should Ulster finals be played Seafoid? What's the alternative?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 04:54:11 PM
It will cost  money to open up Casement for concerts and they will have to have a minimum size. Maybe it's 10,000 . Franko would know. He must have done all the stress testing.  How many concerts with crowds bigger than this does the North run ever year?  12th of July doesn't count.

And for big concerts Belfast will be in competition with Dublin and ... Cork
The big question is how much debt the Ulster Council is taking on. 

Inflation is not under control. Last time rates went to 18%.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 05:18:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 04:52:01 PMWhere should Ulster finals be played Seafoid? What's the alternative?

I think this a big question for the GAA. Does every province need an all seater stadium? Do GAA fans ?
What's wrong with the existing level of up to date infrastructure ?  How much would it cost to redevelop Clones to the level of say Thurles ? Is there a comparison of various options and how much they cost?  Why didn't the IFA build a bigger stadium? Because they don't want the risk. They aren't that stupid.

Apparently the partitionist regime were going to pay £61m with the GAA ponying up £15m . Now the cost is estimated at between £112 and £140m.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/reality-check-not-blank-cheque-171454796.html

Say it's £125m. That's £39m over budget. The North is hardly going to  be in a position to make up the difference. The South is already sponsoring nursing training.


Forget about the grant. Can an affordable refurbishment happen elsewhere? Pairc Ui chaoimh really needed the South Africa match last year. the GAA waved it through . The projections have obviously been under stress and they had to be bailed out by Croke Park.

This isn't very encouraging :
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40089974.html
Cork GAA says €33m Páirc Uí Chaoimh debt is 'not frightening'
"Looking at new revenue streams including naming rights for Páirc Uí Chaoimh, a museum and cafe in the stadium, improved conference facilities and increased concerts"

Conferences and concerts are in competition with other venues. "New revenue streams" does not sound good.  It's actually complicated. Pairc Ui chamoimh has always had these problems as well. Siamsa cois Laoi was held regularly in the 80s to help with the debt of the 1976 project.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 05:44:24 PM
Clones is a no go. There are no trains and only a handful of roads in or out. The Monaghan road is a complete sh1tshow before and are games. It is a place that woefully inadequate for a stadium of that size. And that's before we get to the state of the stadium itself.

Casement is 100m from the motorway. It has the Europa bus centre and train station 10mins away. It has any amount of shops, pubs,  restaurants etc in the immediate vicinity. It is the only option. Stadiums are supposed to go in cities, not rural towns 2 hours drive from any city.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2023, 05:57:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 05:18:48 PMApparently the partitionist regime were going to pay £61m with the GAA ponying up £15m . Now the cost is estimated at between £112 and £140m.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/reality-check-not-blank-cheque-171454796.html

Easy to say forget about the grant, but then the GAA has to do up somewhere and also restore Casement to use.

Simple inflation, which has raised taxes and ticket prices and so the ability to contribute, is 41%. Both parties should meet inflation. Then there is a distinct EURO contribution, which London will also make to works in Britain. This would bring you in to the region of the lower £112m above. Every effort should be made not to go too much beyond that, construction inflation has moderated, there isn't quite the same pressure of work. But a bit more will be needed and the Dublin government is willing to make a symbolic contribution. The UK government get back 40% of any expenditure in taxes anyway so they too can do something.

Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 05:44:24 PMClones is a no go. There are no trains and only a handful of roads in or out. The Monaghan road is a complete sh1tshow before and are games. It is a place that woefully inadequate for a stadium of that size. And that's before we get to the state of the stadium itself.

Casement is 100m from the motorway. It has the Europa bus centre and train station 10mins away. It has any amount of shops, pubs,  restaurants etc in the immediate vicinity. It is the only option. Stadiums are supposed to go in cities, not rural towns 2 hours drive from any city.

Of course Clones was chosen as it had trains, but Stormont sabotaged that. Stadiums should be convenient for people, but not many people in Belfast will go, the people who will go often live near Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2023, 06:22:25 PM
Page 271 and people are still asking why Clones can't be upgraded instead of Casement  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2023, 06:26:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 05:44:24 PMClones is a no go. There are no trains and only a handful of roads in or out. The Monaghan road is a complete sh1tshow before and are games. It is a place that woefully inadequate for a stadium of that size. And that's before we get to the state of the stadium itself.

Casement is 100m from the motorway. It has the Europa bus centre and train station 10mins away. It has any amount of shops, pubs,  restaurants etc in the immediate vicinity. It is the only option. Stadiums are supposed to go in cities, not rural towns 2 hours drive from any city.
Casement will have VAT on tickets while Clones doesnt.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 06:31:44 PM
One alternative would be not to have an all seater in Casement. Since when were GAA grounds supposed to be all seater ?
If the NI whatever it is will not put up more money the GAA won't either so the plans will have to be revisited.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2023, 06:26:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 05:44:24 PMClones is a no go. There are no trains and only a handful of roads in or out. The Monaghan road is a complete sh1tshow before and are games. It is a place that woefully inadequate for a stadium of that size. And that's before we get to the state of the stadium itself.

Casement is 100m from the motorway. It has the Europa bus centre and train station 10mins away. It has any amount of shops, pubs,  restaurants etc in the immediate vicinity. It is the only option. Stadiums are supposed to go in cities, not rural towns 2 hours drive from any city.
Casement will have VAT on tickets while Clones doesnt.

Don't care. I'll happily pay the 20% for a superior match day experience.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 06:31:44 PMOne alternative would be not to have an all seater in Casement. Since when were GAA grounds supposed to be all seater ?
If the NI whatever it is will not put up more money the GAA won't either so the plans will have to be revisited.


You need to lay off the crack pipe for a while..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2023, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 06:31:44 PMOne alternative would be not to have an all seater in Casement. Since when were GAA grounds supposed to be all seater ?
If the NI whatever it is will not put up more money the GAA won't either so the plans will have to be revisited.


It isn't all seater, is will have 26000 seats and 8000 standing capacity. The latter will be capable of being turned into 4000 seats for the Euros. It is always easier to argue if you actually know what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 08:11:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 06:31:44 PMOne alternative would be not to have an all seater in Casement. Since when were GAA grounds supposed to be all seater ?
If the NI whatever it is will not put up more money the GAA won't either so the plans will have to be revisited.


You need to lay off the crack pipe for a while..
that's a bit rich coming from you.

The Euros is a great bunch of lads but the cupboard is bare in the  North.The Assembly is still suspended and the SoS said that spending would be restricted. I defer to the Brit in this case.  An  all seater Casement costing a minimum of £112m is a nice wee fantasy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 08:33:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 08:11:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 03, 2023, 06:31:44 PMOne alternative would be not to have an all seater in Casement. Since when were GAA grounds supposed to be all seater ?
If the NI whatever it is will not put up more money the GAA won't either so the plans will have to be revisited.


You need to lay off the crack pipe for a while..
that's a bit rich coming from you.

The Euros is a great bunch of lads but the cupboard is bare in the  North.The Assembly is still suspended and the SoS said that spending would be restricted. I defer to the Brit in this case.  An  all seater Casement costing a minimum of £112m is a nice wee fantasy

And the world keeps turning...

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PM
I've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:49:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2023, 06:26:30 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 05:44:24 PMClones is a no go. There are no trains and only a handful of roads in or out. The Monaghan road is a complete sh1tshow before and are games. It is a place that woefully inadequate for a stadium of that size. And that's before we get to the state of the stadium itself.

Casement is 100m from the motorway. It has the Europa bus centre and train station 10mins away. It has any amount of shops, pubs,  restaurants etc in the immediate vicinity. It is the only option. Stadiums are supposed to go in cities, not rural towns 2 hours drive from any city.
Casement will have VAT on tickets while Clones doesnt.

And you'll be in Roscommon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PMI've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)

Correctamundo.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially for those slow learners in Connacht. (Insert stepbrothers meme) I don't give a f**k if this stadium costs £500m we will build it and the taxpayer will pay for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 11:00:44 PM
Get er built
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Aaron Boone on November 04, 2023, 02:17:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 11:00:44 PMGet er built

It won't be built. This is NI.

Those 5 Euro games will go "elsewhere ".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PMI've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)

Correctamundo.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially for those slow learners in Connacht. (Insert stepbrothers meme) I don't give a f**k if this stadium costs £500m we will build it and the taxpayer will pay for it.
It's Sunningdale for soccer fans

The North doesn't have the infrastructure of a modern state. The motorways are all Protestant. So there is a motorway near Casement but it doesn't go anywhere near Derry or Tyrone. Sporting infrastructure in the regional capital was neglected for decades. One of the major political parties is boycotting the parliament because of a favourable trade deal. You have to start there. The North is a basket case. This will eventually lead to reunification.

Most of the arguments concerning Casement were aired on page 1. In 2010.  Nobody mentioned the Euros on Page 1.  The Euros came to the party very late. A nice distraction.

According to the BBC the project has been hampered by "political instability", which is part of the Ulster fry.

Another project that is also popular on the Board (46 pages) was announced in summer 2009 and has been hampered by "political instability" and inflating budgets . It has never been started . Plus it goes through Tyrone and Derry. It is probably more important than hosting a few soccer matches. It's existential .

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12534.0

But carry on lads
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2023, 09:16:37 AM
The M1 goes to County Tyrone (Dungannon) so you're wrong on that.

I honestly cannot believe there are people advocating for the renovation of a stadium in the arse of nowhere over one that is directly at the heart of the North's infrastructure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2023, 09:30:57 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 04, 2023, 02:17:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 11:00:44 PMGet er built

It won't be built. This is NI.

Those 5 Euro games will go "elsewhere ".

Have a family member deeply involved in the project. It's being built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on November 04, 2023, 09:49:05 AM
Irish government will end up bring the ultimate guarantor, shore up any financial shortfalls. Imo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2023, 09:49:05 AMIrish government will end up bring the ultimate guarantor, shore up any financial shortfalls. Imo.
About time they done something for the North after ditching us for 100 years ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 04, 2023, 10:32:34 AM
From Bel Tel

61% of unionists say they would prefer that Northern Ireland hosted no Euro 2028 games if the only choice of venue here is the GAA's Casement Park.

Shocking.

I thought it would have been much higher than 61%  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2023, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 04, 2023, 10:32:34 AMFrom Bel Tel

61% of unionists say they would prefer that Northern Ireland hosted no Euro 2028 games if the only choice of venue here is the GAA's Casement Park.

Shocking.

I thought it would have been much higher than 61%  ::)

If ever there was an incentive needed, it's this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Itchy on November 04, 2023, 10:49:14 AM
Unionists really should move to Israel, they've so much in common
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 11:13:19 AM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2023, 09:49:05 AMIrish government will end up bring the ultimate guarantor, shore up any financial shortfalls. Imo.

Corporate tax take has been falling for 3 months . Not as flúirseach as before.
All costs including future debt servicing costs should be modelled and an affordable cost that does not lead to a white elephant should be defined.  If it is less than whatever Governments +GAA  will pay the project should be scaled down.
Builders and hotel /restaurant owners would benefit from a rebuilt Casement.  Everyone who would should chip in, in order that nobody gets left with an unfair debt load.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 11:13:19 AM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2023, 09:49:05 AMIrish government will end up bring the ultimate guarantor, shore up any financial shortfalls. Imo.

Corporate tax take has been falling for 3 months . Not as flúirseach as before.
All costs including future debt servicing costs should be modelled and an affordable cost that does not lead to a white elephant should be defined.  If it is less than whatever Governments +GAA  will pay the project should be scaled down.
Builders and hotel /restaurant owners would benefit from a rebuilt Casement.  Everyone who would should chip in, in order that nobody gets left with an unfair debt load.
Hotel owners should be helping fund Casement. I've heard it all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 04, 2023, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 09:58:03 AM
Quote from: bannside on November 04, 2023, 09:49:05 AMIrish government will end up bring the ultimate guarantor, shore up any financial shortfalls. Imo.
About time they done something for the North after ditching us for 100 years ;)

Once ye start paying €500 a year "Irish Citizen solidarity Tax"....

Might be able to put some of it to the £500m cost mentioned by a late night poster earlier ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 04, 2023, 12:12:30 PM
The white elephant rolls on.

Build a new covered stand with seats and executive boxes. Cover the terrace on the far side and fix up the end terracing. Build proper toilets.

Done.

Something that perfectly matches the actual user needs (i.e. something like the Athletic Grounds only bigger capacity). Forget about soccer as they won't be paying to maintain it for 50 years.


A lot of people in here obviously have learned fuk all from Cork.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on November 04, 2023, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 04, 2023, 10:32:34 AMFrom Bel Tel

61% of unionists say they would prefer that Northern Ireland hosted no Euro 2028 games if the only choice of venue here is the GAA's Casement Park.

Shocking.

I thought it would have been much higher than 61%  ::)

So be it.

Bring the games  to Clones. Let the green and white army Italians and the Germans sample what an Ulster final  atmosphere in the town  is like.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 04, 2023, 12:42:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 04, 2023, 12:12:30 PMThe white elephant rolls on.

Build a new covered stand with seats and executive boxes. Cover the terrace on the far side and fix up the end terracing. Build proper toilets.

Done.

Something that perfectly matches the actual user needs (i.e. something like the Athletic Grounds only bigger capacity). Forget about soccer as they won't be paying to maintain it for 50 years.


A lot of people in here obviously have learned fuk all from Cork.

Have you planning permission for any of that?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2023, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2023, 09:30:57 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 04, 2023, 02:17:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2023, 11:00:44 PMGet er built

It won't be built. This is NI.

Those 5 Euro games will go "elsewhere ".

Have a family member deeply involved in the project. It's being built.
They must be the black sheep of the family.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 04, 2023, 01:32:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2023, 12:42:39 PMHave you planning permission for any of that?

Are you actually hiding behind the decision making prowess of the planning office?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:02:51 PM
Another problems is recovering the cost of capital in PUC. They can't charge punters the right price because punters will not pay it. Or can't pay it. So they had to establish One cork to look into 50 ways of raising money. 
Irish Examiner
"A new body called One Cork amalgamates all of the existing organisations working to further the sport across the county...
The organisation has identified more than 50 separate potential revenue streams ranging from naming rights for Páirc Uí Chaoimh, a museum and cafe in the stadium, improved conference facilities, increased concerts and events, advertising and ticket sales."


https://gaacork.ie/onecork/about-us/#:~:text=One%20Cork%27s%20objectives%20are%20crystal,Campus%2C%20Supporters%2C%20and%20Community.

The central objective is to propel all Cork teams to the pinnacle of their potential, ensuring unwavering support for their success. This involves providing comprehensive financial backing for Cork GAA and stabilizing the financial standing of Páirc Uí Chaoimh (PuC).

The 6 counties are not as flúirseach as Munster so expecting fans to pay the real price of tickets is even less likely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:02:51 PMAnother problems is recovering the cost of capital in PUC. They can't charge punters the right price because punters will not pay it. Or can't pay it. So they had to establish One Cork to look into 50 ways of raising money. 
Irish Examiner
"A new body called One Cork amalgamates all of the existing organisations working to further the sport across the county...
The organisation has identified more than 50 separate potential revenue streams ranging from naming rights for Páirc Uí Chaoimh, a museum and cafe in the stadium, improved conference facilities, increased concerts and events, advertising and ticket sales."


https://gaacork.ie/onecork/about-us/#:~:text=One%20Cork%27s%20objectives%20are%20crystal,Campus%2C%20Supporters%2C%20and%20Community.

The central objective is to propel all Cork teams to the pinnacle of their potential, ensuring unwavering support for their success. This involves providing comprehensive financial backing for Cork GAA and stabilizing the financial standing of Páirc Uí Chaoimh (PuC).

The 6 counties are not as flúirseach as Munster so expecting fans to pay the real price of tickets is even less likely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2023, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PMI've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)

Correctamundo.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially for those slow learners in Connacht. (Insert stepbrothers meme) I don't give a f**k if this stadium costs £500m we will build it and the taxpayer will pay for it.
It's Sunningdale for soccer fans

The North doesn't have the infrastructure of a modern state. The motorways are all Protestant. So there is a motorway near Casement but it doesn't go anywhere near Derry or Tyrone. Sporting infrastructure in the regional capital was neglected for decades. One of the major political parties is boycotting the parliament because of a favourable trade deal. You have to start there. The North is a basket case. This will eventually lead to reunification.

Most of the arguments concerning Casement were aired on page 1. In 2010.  Nobody mentioned the Euros on Page 1.  The Euros came to the party very late. A nice distraction.

According to the BBC the project has been hampered by "political instability", which is part of the Ulster fry.

Another project that is also popular on the Board (46 pages) was announced in summer 2009 and has been hampered by "political instability" and inflating budgets . It has never been started . Plus it goes through Tyrone and Derry. It is probably more important than hosting a few soccer matches. It's existential .

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12534.0

But carry on lads

So these motorways that only go through Protestant places..

Talk me through that..

M2 bar Glenshane pass is generally motorway or dual carriage way all the way to Derry! The M1 will lead you to Fermanagh on either dual carriage way or motorway.

If on the Westlink I can go all the way to Cork without hitting traffic lights!

Said earlier,  stay off the crack pipe!

I think the only basket case I know is some balloon from Galway
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 04, 2023, 06:19:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2023, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PMI've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)

Correctamundo.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially for those slow learners in Connacht. (Insert stepbrothers meme) I don't give a f**k if this stadium costs £500m we will build it and the taxpayer will pay for it.
It's Sunningdale for soccer fans

The North doesn't have the infrastructure of a modern state. The motorways are all Protestant. So there is a motorway near Casement but it doesn't go anywhere near Derry or Tyrone. Sporting infrastructure in the regional capital was neglected for decades. One of the major political parties is boycotting the parliament because of a favourable trade deal. You have to start there. The North is a basket case. This will eventually lead to reunification.

Most of the arguments concerning Casement were aired on page 1. In 2010.  Nobody mentioned the Euros on Page 1.  The Euros came to the party very late. A nice distraction.

According to the BBC the project has been hampered by "political instability", which is part of the Ulster fry.

Another project that is also popular on the Board (46 pages) was announced in summer 2009 and has been hampered by "political instability" and inflating budgets . It has never been started . Plus it goes through Tyrone and Derry. It is probably more important than hosting a few soccer matches. It's existential .

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12534.0

But carry on lads

So these motorways that only go through Protestant places..

Talk me through that..

M2 bar Glenshane pass is generally motorway or dual carriage way all the way to Derry! The M1 will lead you to Fermanagh on either dual carriage way or motorway.

If on the Westlink I can go all the way to Cork without hitting traffic lights!

Said earlier,  stay off the crack pipe!

I think the only basket case I know is some balloon from Galway

The M1 nor dual carriageway goes all the way to Fermanagh.

Belfast people think the world ends at Broadway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 06:57:13 PM
Does it really matter where the f**king motor way goes. Theres good road rail and bus connections to Belfast. Theres fuckall to Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2023, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PMI've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)

Correctamundo.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially for those slow learners in Connacht. (Insert stepbrothers meme) I don't give a f**k if this stadium costs £500m we will build it and the taxpayer will pay for it.
It's Sunningdale for soccer fans

The North doesn't have the infrastructure of a modern state. The motorways are all Protestant. So there is a motorway near Casement but it doesn't go anywhere near Derry or Tyrone. Sporting infrastructure in the regional capital was neglected for decades. One of the major political parties is boycotting the parliament because of a favourable trade deal. You have to start there. The North is a basket case. This will eventually lead to reunification.

Most of the arguments concerning Casement were aired on page 1. In 2010.  Nobody mentioned the Euros on Page 1.  The Euros came to the party very late. A nice distraction.

According to the BBC the project has been hampered by "political instability", which is part of the Ulster fry.

Another project that is also popular on the Board (46 pages) was announced in summer 2009 and has been hampered by "political instability" and inflating budgets . It has never been started . Plus it goes through Tyrone and Derry. It is probably more important than hosting a few soccer matches. It's existential .

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12534.0

But carry on lads

So these motorways that only go through Protestant places..

Talk me through that..

M2 bar Glenshane pass is generally motorway or dual carriage way all the way to Derry! The M1 will lead you to Fermanagh on either dual carriage way or motorway.

If on the Westlink I can go all the way to Cork without hitting traffic lights!

Said earlier,  stay off the crack pipe!

I think the only basket case I know is some balloon from Galway
Dual carriageway is not motorway.  Average speeds are lower.

There is  no motorway to Omagh, Derry, Enniskillen or the Border.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2015/07/27/the-west-wants-in-why-are-roads-so-poor-west-of-the-bann/

Also the railways are highly correlated with religion up there.

There are 51 stations East of the Bann and 3 West of the Bann.
It looks like Protestant infrastructure for a Protestant people.

The North will need a Marshall plan after reunification.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2023, 07:19:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2023, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 09:11:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:52:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on November 03, 2023, 10:24:46 PMI've lost the will to live with people in general over the poxy stadium...it's really frustrating TBH. This Board is a bit annoying at times but wouldn't hold a candle to the dim wits on-line like Facebook etc when an ex footballer or some idiot who thinks they have a voice comment on how bad this stadium is for football (it's actually soccer ya twat).

Anyway to clear a few things up...
The funding is for Casement only (no other venue so please stop recommending other grounds)
The stadium will be built regardless of Euro soccer competition. (so please stop thinking the Euros are building the stadium)
The stadium is for GAA and we are decent people who are prepared to lend it to you for a few weeks...that's all, a lend and then go back to your own cesspit.
We don't care about local soccer and this stadium has nothing to do with grass roots soccer...WTF.
The stadium planned is class looking and is perfect for Ulster finals and other top games, if I could build Croke Park there I would just to run them bitter, twisted, sectarian, racist Bastids nose in it as they would rather die than see this stadium built...Right i'm away for a cup of tea now that I've got some of my anger out (should be a beer)

Correctamundo.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially for those slow learners in Connacht. (Insert stepbrothers meme) I don't give a f**k if this stadium costs £500m we will build it and the taxpayer will pay for it.
It's Sunningdale for soccer fans

The North doesn't have the infrastructure of a modern state. The motorways are all Protestant. So there is a motorway near Casement but it doesn't go anywhere near Derry or Tyrone. Sporting infrastructure in the regional capital was neglected for decades. One of the major political parties is boycotting the parliament because of a favourable trade deal. You have to start there. The North is a basket case. This will eventually lead to reunification.

Most of the arguments concerning Casement were aired on page 1. In 2010.  Nobody mentioned the Euros on Page 1.  The Euros came to the party very late. A nice distraction.

According to the BBC the project has been hampered by "political instability", which is part of the Ulster fry.

Another project that is also popular on the Board (46 pages) was announced in summer 2009 and has been hampered by "political instability" and inflating budgets . It has never been started . Plus it goes through Tyrone and Derry. It is probably more important than hosting a few soccer matches. It's existential .

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12534.0

But carry on lads

So these motorways that only go through Protestant places..

Talk me through that..

M2 bar Glenshane pass is generally motorway or dual carriage way all the way to Derry! The M1 will lead you to Fermanagh on either dual carriage way or motorway.

If on the Westlink I can go all the way to Cork without hitting traffic lights!

Said earlier,  stay off the crack pipe!

I think the only basket case I know is some balloon from Galway
Dual carriageway is not motorway.  Average speeds are lower.

There is  no motorway to Omagh, Derry, Enniskillen or the Border.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2015/07/27/the-west-wants-in-why-are-roads-so-poor-west-of-the-bann/

Also the railways are highly correlated with religion up there.

There are 51 stations East of the Bann and 3 West of the Bann.
It looks like Protestant infrastructure for a Protestant people.

The North will need a Marshall plan after reunification.

Dual carriage ways for 90% of the way are 70 mph you muppet. Same speed, just in case you don't know the speed laws

So now we are on trains? Christ give it up..

Go and turn off your internet, give that pea brain a rest for a bit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2023, 09:17:02 PM
The m1 literally goes to Tyrone  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 04, 2023, 09:38:29 PM
That's karma for giving us Arlene foster  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 04, 2023, 10:03:52 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 04, 2023, 09:27:09 PMI'd question the motorway or dual carriageway to Fermanagh part though.

I'm not sure exactly what the significance of the debate is but it's enough for fake news to be pulled out it seems.

20 miles ;)

Sure once they do the bypass around fivemile town it'll be grand
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 05, 2023, 11:13:24 AM
The Gaa, ulster Gaa specifically, have made an awful balls of this project. I often wonder was the head at the time using it to further his own cause and then legged it elsewhere when the going got tough. Antrim Gaa should also not have handed it over until something concrete was in place.

One of the issues is that it has become an us and them thing and makes it hard to have reasoned debate on it but it has been a balls and if it gets built for the Euros then ulster Gaa will have been lucky it has been sorted due to it being a bit of a political pawn.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2023, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 04, 2023, 10:16:55 PMAnyway, I managed to make my way back to the source of this debate where seafoid lays the blame for the Casement saga at the door of "political instability".
Lol.
That's a convenient cover story for the GAA. I don't forget the appalling project management.

The BBC said it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-67060870
Plans to redevelop of the ground into a modern 34,000 capacity stadium have been on the table for more than 10 years - but political instability, issues behind the scenes and planning permission U-turns combined to keep the bulldozers off site.


Casement has taken 13 years to date
The A5 has taken 14 years to date
The PUC redevelopment took 3 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1irc_U%C3%AD_Chaoimh

"In May 2014, the Government sanctioned a €30 million grant to help fund the regeneration of the stadium.[52] The work was due to start in summer 2014, and on 6 July 2014, the stadium hosted its last provincial football final in the old stadium . In November 2014 An Bord Pleanala gave the green light to redevelop the stadium with redevelopment works running from January 2015 to mid-2017.
 The first match at the re-developed stadium was instead a Cork premier intermediate hurling championship game between Valley Rovers and Blarney on 19 July 2017"

The difference is political.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 05, 2023, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 01:15:12 PMThis is like gaslighting. People remember what happened seafoid. Yes, we currently have political instability but to say that has been the problem with the Casement project is simply wrong.

The GAA fcuked up their project on many levels which dragged it out for years. By the time they went back to the drawing board, redesigned the stadium and got all their ducks in a row inflation meant that the stadium they wanted was costing double the money they had been awarded. So they waited on a sugar daddy to bail them out.
Political instability ffs.
Blame the BBC for saying it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 03:45:02 PM
Was it Ulster GAA  or Antrim GAA that f*#ked it up first?

It was a real mess at the start. Shut up shop after the hurling final a good few years ago.  Madness.

Such a waste of time, and money obviously.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 04:04:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 03:45:02 PMWas it Ulster GAA  or Antrim GAA that f*#ked it up first?

It was a real mess at the start. Shut up shop after the hurling final a good few years ago.  Madness.

Such a waste of time, and money obviously. 
Shouldn't have been shut until work was ready to start the next day. A disgrace all round
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 04:04:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 03:45:02 PMWas it Ulster GAA  or Antrim GAA that f*#ked it up first?

It was a real mess at the start. Shut up shop after the hurling final a good few years ago.  Madness.

Such a waste of time, and money obviously. 
Shouldn't have been shut until work was ready to start the next day. A disgrace all round

Absolutely, the diggers should have been ready in the car park on the day of the last game ready to start at 8am Monday, indeed part of the terraces etc could have been demolished without decommissioning the pitch. Croke Park was rebuilt while being mostly operational and the example was there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:05:04 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 06:55:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 03:45:02 PMWas it Ulster GAA  or Antrim GAA that f*#ked it up first?

It was a real mess at the start. Shut up shop after the hurling final a good few years ago.  Madness.

Such a waste of time, and money obviously.
Neither came out of it looking good but ultimately the reason why there isn't a new stadium on the site right now is down to Ulster GAA mismanagement and incompetence.
Don't think it was on Antrim GAA. Can't understand why Casement wasn't being used right up until it was totally impossible due to construction
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GTP on November 05, 2023, 08:56:22 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 08:07:17 PMIt was closed by Antrim GAA and ripped apart by Antrim GAA.
My recollection is the initial delay in construction was caused by safety concerns raised late in the process. Can't find a reference but it may have been to do with being unable to evacuate if a bomb was left on the Andersonstown Road.
Someone may correct me but the old Casement was unlikely to get a safety certificate as the concrete terrace was crumbling. Therefore it was closed in anticipation of work starting much sooner than it will (if it does)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/casement-park-whistleblower-settles-case-against-sport-ni/35058936.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/casement-park-whistleblower-settles-case-against-sport-ni/35058936.html)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 10:25:59 PM
So who did close it - Antrim GAA or Ulster GAA?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 06, 2023, 09:26:24 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 10:46:03 PMAntrim GAA.

Antrim closed it, but Ulster GAA had told them they'd have a new stadium in a few years. If they had known what was going to happen, I doubt they would have.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2023, 10:36:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 05, 2023, 10:25:59 PMSo who did close it - Antrim GAA or Ulster GAA?

The main reason being they felt that the deal was done and no need to pay insurance for the following year
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 08:46:54 AM
Honestly do wonder were they fed a pack of lies.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:03:31 AM
Yeah they are not blameless and that was a disgrace which was thankfully rectified. I'm just sure they are as high up the blame pecking as ulster gaa.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 07, 2023, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:03:31 AMYeah they are not blameless and that was a disgrace which was thankfully rectified. I'm just sure they are as high up the blame pecking as ulster gaa.

Plenty blame to go around on all sides.

The big issue for me at the moment is that it seems absolutely nothing was learned from the Pairc Ui Chaoimh disaster.

I wonder did anyone involved in the Casement project get in touch with anyone who was involved in the Cork car crash for advice/info on things they would have done differently/pitfalls. Although knowing some of the key players involved in the Cork farrago, they're still probably claiming no mistakes were made and anything that did go wrong was all someone elses fault. Even a meeting or two with the the lads brought in from Croke Park to do clean-up on Cork would surely be massively beneficial.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
There is a committee set up from Antrim that is in negotiations with the Ulster council with regards to what Antrim as a county can get from the new Casement

These discussions no doubt will be centering around the use of Casement for county and even club finals, having use of Casement for the likes of Antrim offices for the admin side of things and CCC and so on 

It was the center of all things Antrim for so long, it would be very disappointing (and harsh imo)if they lost all those privilege's

   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:31:38 AM
Is Casement still not technically Antrim grounds and ownership of such?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2023, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 01:31:38 AMIs Casement still not technically Antrim grounds and ownership of such?

Nope, the Ulster council has, from what I know, full ownership of the place.

Clones is owned by Monagahan I think, Brewster park by Enniskillen Gaels, Newry Shamrocks own Páirc Esler, these and many more up and down the country didn't give up that ownership of the county grounds, we unfortunately did!

I remember playing club hurling games in the Athletic Grounds back in the day, but I think it was always owned by the county
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 08, 2023, 12:22:44 PM
Not all the GAA's money going to Casement

https://www.gaa.ie/news/cusack-stand-redevelopment-work-under-way/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 08, 2023, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 08, 2023, 12:22:44 PMNot all the GAA's money going to Casement

https://www.gaa.ie/news/cusack-stand-redevelopment-work-under-way/

Nice one. €12 million. Plenty of cash floating about the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 08, 2023, 06:38:11 PM
But poor oul Louth were ordered to stop their new Stadium.....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 08:26:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 08, 2023, 06:38:11 PMBut poor oul Louth were ordered to stop their new Stadium.....

They seem to not have heeded that advice
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/louth/news/photos-show-signs-of-progress-at-louth-gaas-new-stadium-in-dundalk/a757040717.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 08, 2023, 08:47:31 PMCasement
Louth
Cork
Armagh

4 of the most recent major development projects at GAA stadiums. Every one of them a shitshow.
Why do we keep ballsing them up?


Armagh certainly took a long time, but it was an appropriate job at the end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2023, 08:58:26 PM
How many people on county boards or indeed Ulster GAA have the background or experience to be anywhere near major capital projects. What is the professional background of Feeney and McGeehan?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 08, 2023, 09:01:28 PM
What was wrong with Armagh? Best facilities north of Croke Park these days.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 08, 2023, 08:52:21 PMCasement is likely to get there in the end too but it doesn't mean it wasn't a clusterfcuk of a project.


There is a question over size etc for Casement that does not exist in Armagh. The Athletic Grounds was substantially full on several occasions in the last year and the stand is essentially full on numerous occasions.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 08, 2023, 10:03:34 PM
You need to be of a building/ construction background at Senior Project Manager / Senior Architect level with a full bck ground team to even deal with the consultants and contractors.i deal with projects just up to a million, and the paperwork a shit show.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PM
Páirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 09, 2023, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 08, 2023, 09:11:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 08, 2023, 08:52:21 PMCasement is likely to get there in the end too but it doesn't mean it wasn't a clusterfcuk of a project.


There is a question over size etc for Casement that does not exist in Armagh. The Athletic Grounds was substantially full on several occasions in the last year and the stand is essentially full on numerous occasions.
Sorry, there is nothing wrong with the stadium but as you said, the redevelopment went on for an eternity.
Páirc Uí Chaoimh is a great facility but the project was a mess.

Pairc UI chaoimh main stand is impressive. Still to this day don't understand why they knocked down the old end terraces to replace them with almost identical structures ffs. Such a wasted opportunity
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 09, 2023, 02:30:29 PM
We're building cathedrals lads. It's not about this generation, it's about the next. Costs shouldn't come into it..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

Been to Belfast? Been to Croke park recently.. talk me through the parking there? What's the parking like round Anfield or Old Traford? Leave the parking out of it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: full moon on November 09, 2023, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

Been to Belfast? Been to Croke park recently.. talk me through the parking there? What's the parking like round Anfield or Old Traford? Leave the parking out of it
I don't think public transport to Belfast is good enough to forgo nearly all parking. Lets not forgot half the province doesn't even have a rail service, and the bus services at least to the counties in Republic is very little.

I have been to Belfast even this year and got the bus to it, but services are extremely limited some days there isn't a bus at all. I'd most likely drive if I had to go there again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 09, 2023, 03:37:42 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

Been to Belfast? Been to Croke park recently.. talk me through the parking there? What's the parking like round Anfield or Old Traford? Leave the parking out of it
I don't think public transport to Belfast is good enough to forgo nearly all parking. Lets not forgot half the province doesn't even have a rail service, and the bus services at least to the counties in Republic is very little.

I have been to Belfast even this year and got the bus to it, but services are extremely limited some days there isn't a bus at all. I'd most likely drive if I had to go there again.

I forgot about the enterprise train service to Clones. Also Motorways and ring roads that it has. Forgot all about it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on November 09, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
The argument for clones in that is...... has a place to park ie. The field. I have had enough internet for today.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 05:59:37 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

Been to Belfast? Been to Croke park recently.. talk me through the parking there? What's the parking like round Anfield or Old Traford? Leave the parking out of it
I don't think public transport to Belfast is good enough to forgo nearly all parking. Lets not forgot half the province doesn't even have a rail service, and the bus services at least to the counties in Republic is very little.

I have been to Belfast even this year and got the bus to it, but services are extremely limited some days there isn't a bus at all. I'd most likely drive if I had to go there again.

Look just stay at home, watch things on the telly, it's easier, you'll not have to get off your lazy fat ass to use your legs! Jesus H Christ!

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 09, 2023, 06:27:21 PM
Is there not decent park and ride facilities at Sprucefield etc?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 09, 2023, 09:02:11 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 09, 2023, 01:02:53 PMPairc UI chaoimh main stand is impressive. Still to this day don't understand why they knocked down the old end terraces to replace them with almost identical structures ffs. Such a wasted opportunity

Pretty sure that when works started they found those were in danger of collapsing. I think that's why they were use replaced with identical structures.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on November 10, 2023, 11:19:52 AM
At £30m per game at the Euros David Healy doesn't think its worth building Casement.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/footballsoccer/2023/11/10/news/healy_casement_park_project_isn_t_worth_it_-3761743/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 11:50:58 AM
The bigoted cnuts are sickened by the Casement decision and are queueing up to diss it.!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2023, 12:13:06 PM
Who really cares what Healy thinks? I'd love NI to qualify and be sent to Newcastle  for their group games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: square_ball on November 10, 2023, 11:19:52 AMAt £30m per game at the Euros David Healy doesn't think its worth building Casement.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/footballsoccer/2023/11/10/news/healy_casement_park_project_isn_t_worth_it_-3761743/

Like WTF are The Irish News asking for his opinion for?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 10, 2023, 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

Pairc Ui Rinn could hold comfortably the Cork football supporters, especially if its not against Kerry.

Hurlers get multiples more supporters even if they're not going well either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 10, 2023, 12:40:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2023, 12:13:06 PMWho really cares what Healy thinks? I'd love NI to qualify and be sent to Newcastle  for their group games

Flute playing Healy, no surprise there with his opinion the twit
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on November 10, 2023, 03:42:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: square_ball on November 10, 2023, 11:19:52 AMAt £30m per game at the Euros David Healy doesn't think its worth building Casement.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/footballsoccer/2023/11/10/news/healy_casement_park_project_isn_t_worth_it_-3761743/

Like WTF are The Irish News asking for his opinion for?

They didn't. It was article in Belfast Telegraph, latest in its agenda against Casement. IN just reported it. The bitterness of these people over Casement is a joy to behold.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2023, 03:48:18 PM
The Casement thread is a bit like the Man Utd thread. A very long story of mí ádh
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on November 10, 2023, 07:36:24 PM
Norn Iron are unlikely  to qualify , so the GAWA  won't  have  to worry about ever playing at Casement.

And if the likes of  Croatia, Turkey  or Hungary play in Casement, those games  might as  well be   in Manchester or Newcastle.   Andytown is hardly on  any NI fan's radar anyway, so what will it matter to them  where they're played?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.

That is a genuine problem, because that completely undermines Casement. Its only hope are Ulster finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:35:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.

That is a genuine problem, because that completely undermines Casement. Its only hope are Ulster finals.

So no games will be played in the north?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 01:00:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:35:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.

That is a genuine problem, because that completely undermines Casement. Its only hope are Ulster finals.

So no games will be played in the north?

Some would, but Casement has no significant home crowd, and it is only a suitable mid point for a few combinations. An Ulster championship forces those combinations, other systems will not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 01:10:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 01:00:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:35:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.

That is a genuine problem, because that completely undermines Casement. Its only hope are Ulster finals.

So no games will be played in the north?

Some would, but Casement has no significant home crowd, and it is only a suitable mid point for a few combinations. An Ulster championship forces those combinations, other systems will not.

You'd be a complete fool if you think if it went down as no provincial finals route that Casement wouldn't be used to get more fans in to generate more money..

Oh, let's get 10000 people into another ground when 20,000 want to watch the match... now let's see where that game gets appointed?

Seriously? There are plenty on complaining about not getting tickets for games or whatever, Casement will get games in either format
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on November 11, 2023, 07:18:33 AM
When casement is built the GAA will need to invest in Down and Antrim to get them using it in the All Ireland series. ;D 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 08:47:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 01:10:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 01:00:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:35:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.

That is a genuine problem, because that completely undermines Casement. Its only hope are Ulster finals.

So no games will be played in the north?

Some would, but Casement has no significant home crowd, and it is only a suitable mid point for a few combinations. An Ulster championship forces those combinations, other systems will not.

You'd be a complete fool if you think if it went down as no provincial finals route that Casement wouldn't be used to get more fans in to generate more money..

Oh, let's get 10000 people into another ground when 20,000 want to watch the match... now let's see where that game gets appointed?

Seriously? There are plenty on complaining about not getting tickets for games or whatever, Casement will get games in either format

Casement is in a corner of Ireland. Which games will it get?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:55:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 08:47:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 01:10:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 01:00:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:35:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 10, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: full moon on November 09, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 12:04:05 PMPáirc Uí Chaoimh won't be available for Cork's home group game in the AI/TC due to the Springsteen concert.

Then again it's only oul football the Hurley stuff isn't affected 🙄

They have to claw back some money for these white elephant stadiums. GAA crowds are rapidly declining due to many factors, and the big crowds are few and far between.

I'd seriously question what GAA matches would even fill the new Casement with the Ulster Champ being slowly downgraded now every year. We're told there isn't even going be much parking? All the moaning about parking in fields in Clones, at least they had actual place to park.

There mightn't even be an Ulster Championship in 5 years the way the GAA is going.

That is a genuine problem, because that completely undermines Casement. Its only hope are Ulster finals.

So no games will be played in the north?

Some would, but Casement has no significant home crowd, and it is only a suitable mid point for a few combinations. An Ulster championship forces those combinations, other systems will not.

You'd be a complete fool if you think if it went down as no provincial finals route that Casement wouldn't be used to get more fans in to generate more money..

Oh, let's get 10000 people into another ground when 20,000 want to watch the match... now let's see where that game gets appointed?

Seriously? There are plenty on complaining about not getting tickets for games or whatever, Casement will get games in either format

Casement is in a corner of Ireland. Which games will it get?

Are you being serious? Belfast is 1.30 from Dublin. 2 hours from deep in Donegal.. 2.45 from Galway 4 hours from Cork.... How big do you think Ireland is?

If Casement is built it'll get games, as it will be the best stadium outside of Croke.

People go to Croke from all over the island..there are plenty counties further away to Dublin than Belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on November 11, 2023, 08:58:05 AM
Dublin / Meath v Donegal / Derry / Armagh / Tyrone

Fermanagh v Wicklow / Louth
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 11, 2023, 09:39:36 AM
I take it all those advocating for this design have no issues with the price of tickets to games. Indeed, have no issues with the price of tickets to games (in casement) jumping.

They'll need to increase to pay for it and without any terracing, there won't be a good spread of ticket price points.

It's a design that is not placing the main user at the centre. It's built for concerts and the odd soccer/rugby game. Bad top level requirements = doomed to failure.

I keep repeating myself but I'll say it again - this is not a design that anyone with the best interests of the GAA in Ulster (and I suppose enough intelligence to look beyond the bling) should be supporting.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 11, 2023, 10:32:55 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 11, 2023, 09:39:36 AMI take it all those advocating for this design have no issues with the price of tickets to games. Indeed, have no issues with the price of tickets to games (in casement) jumping.

They'll need to increase to pay for it and without any terracing, there won't be a good spread of ticket price points.

It's a design that is not placing the main user at the centre. It's built for concerts and the odd soccer/rugby game. Bad top level requirements = doomed to failure.

I keep repeating myself but I'll say it again - this is not a design that anyone with the best interests of the GAA in Ulster (and I suppose enough intelligence to look beyond the bling) should be supporting.

I agree with your point but it's not all seater so you would assume there will be (slightly) cheaper tickets
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 11, 2023, 10:41:16 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 11, 2023, 10:32:55 AMI agree with your point but it's not all seater so you would assume there will be (slightly) cheaper tickets

It effectively is if your replacing one person sitting with one person standing. Which is what the folding seats do.

Spectator density doesn't change so price changes come at effective loss to organisers. Which the Gaa won't wear for the first reason of the original post - paying for it!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2023, 11:59:43 AM
Any whisper on the thing starting?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 11, 2023, 12:17:01 PM
Every major ground in Ireland is "in a corner of Ireland". Celtic Park, Casement, Croke, Salthill, Pairc ui chaoimh. Cities tend to be on the coast due to the history of sea ports etc. That is where the big stadiums will also be.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 11, 2023, 12:17:01 PMEvery major ground in Ireland is "in a corner of Ireland". Celtic Park, Casement, Croke, Salthill, Pairc ui chaoimh. Cities tend to be on the coast due to the history of sea ports etc. That is where the big stadiums will also be.

Spoken like a man with no interest in hurling, since Semple Stadium and Nowlan Park are not.
Croke Pk and Salthill are in the middle of the island in one dimension, Pairc ui Chaoimh, Wexford Park, Celitc Park are not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 11, 2023, 12:17:01 PMEvery major ground in Ireland is "in a corner of Ireland". Celtic Park, Casement, Croke, Salthill, Pairc ui chaoimh. Cities tend to be on the coast due to the history of sea ports etc. That is where the big stadiums will also be.

Spoken like a man with no interest in hurling, since Semple Stadium and Nowlan Park are not.
Croke Pk and Salthill are in the middle of the island in one dimension, Pairc ui Chaoimh, Wexford Park, Celitc Park are not.

Salthill is on the west coast and Dublin is the east coast!

This is stupid.. Radiogaga is correct the capacity is too much for our (GAA) needs but hey ho, it's getting done and let's move on...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 11, 2023, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 11, 2023, 12:17:01 PMEvery major ground in Ireland is "in a corner of Ireland". Celtic Park, Casement, Croke, Salthill, Pairc ui chaoimh. Cities tend to be on the coast due to the history of sea ports etc. That is where the big stadiums will also be.

Spoken like a man with no interest in hurling, since Semple Stadium and Nowlan Park are not.
Croke Pk and Salthill are in the middle of the island in one dimension, Pairc ui Chaoimh, Wexford Park, Celitc Park are not.

You are absolutely right there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2023, 04:55:52 PM
The old "Hayshed" stand in Tuam had its last outing today as Galway's Menlough defeated Ros Champions St Michaels in the Connacht JFC.
To be demolished Monday week and a new Stand to be built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 11, 2023, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:55:54 AMAre you being serious? Belfast is 1.30 from Dublin. 2 hours from deep in Donegal.. 2.45 from Galway 4 hours from Cork.... How big do you think Ireland is?

If Casement is built it'll get games, as it will be the best stadium outside of Croke.

People go to Croke from all over the island..there are plenty counties further away to Dublin than Belfast

Something else to add to the long list of things said about both Pairc ui Chaoimh and Casement before work started there.
The lads in Cork had visions of all sorts of big intercounty games being played there.
The current state of play in Cork is that the Munster Council is hesitant to put on a fair few pairings of games there because they know that ticket sales are lower there than for other venues in Munster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2023, 11:18:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:48:14 PMSalthill is on the west coast and Dublin is the east coast!


Glad to see that you were paying attention at school.
These places have counties to their north and counties to their south and so make a feasible neutral venue. In the case of Cork and Casement they are only useful for a game between Galicia and Scotland.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 12, 2023, 05:58:34 PM
Get er up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 13, 2023, 02:07:24 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on November 11, 2023, 08:55:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:55:54 AMAre you being serious? Belfast is 1.30 from Dublin. 2 hours from deep in Donegal.. 2.45 from Galway 4 hours from Cork.... How big do you think Ireland is?

If Casement is built it'll get games, as it will be the best stadium outside of Croke.

People go to Croke from all over the island..there are plenty counties further away to Dublin than Belfast

Something else to add to the long list of things said about both Pairc ui Chaoimh and Casement before work started there.
The lads in Cork had visions of all sorts of big intercounty games being played there.
The current state of play in Cork is that the Munster Council is hesitant to put on a fair few pairings of games there because they know that ticket sales are lower there than for other venues in Munster.

Munsters problem and indeed for the AI qualifiers is that Pairc ui Chaoimh isn't central to any of the other pairings barring maybe a Waterford and Limerick clash, heck they tried to get the Munster final into Cork and that was between Clare and Limerick, Clare decided they'd rather play Limerick in Limerick instead.

Unless Down and Antrim become a force in football the new Casement may suffer due to the same issues.

Both Stadiums will be used for more concerts and being in the middle of a large city is obviously the biggest bonus there..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 13, 2023, 04:09:26 PM
Once built, it'll get games I'd say.

Like National League Finals etc.

Who'd not want to play in it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2023, 05:10:11 PM
Was any League Final hurling or football played in De noo Páirc?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2023, 06:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:55:54 AMAre you being serious? Belfast is 1.30 from Dublin. 2 hours from deep in Donegal.. 2.45 from Galway 4 hours from Cork.... How big do you think Ireland is?


Jaysus, I wouldn't like to drive with you!

As for Cork, they have a big problem in that there are large stadiums at Limerick and Semple in their province.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on November 13, 2023, 06:45:46 PM
While I attended and have nostalgia for big Connacht games on grassy embankments, all seating stadiums like Casement is the way to go for the future of gaelic games. English premiership is seeing the value of modern stadia. Try to get a ticket now to watch an Arsenal match at Highbury and it's sold out every week and tickets on exchange cost a fortune - despite the outcry and laments for the loss of the old terraces where Nick Hornby had a mystical experience watch Liam Brady's goal. Despite the huge improvement, they still could have done a better job with POC by making it all seater. If Casement fell through it would not be a viable replacement for Euros (not that it can be as was not on the list submitted). In an ideal world, there would be a top class all seater GAA stadium in each province in one of the cities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 06:45:46 PMall seating stadiums like Casement is the way to go for the future of gaelic games.

Fuk off.

You sit and watch a game if you want. Don't deprive others who'd want to stand.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Brendan on November 13, 2023, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 06:45:46 PMall seating stadiums like Casement is the way to go for the future of gaelic games.

Fuk off.

You sit and watch a game if you want. Don't deprive others who'd want to stand.

I'm guessing you're a replica of the stereotypical small angry Irish man/Leprechaun the Americans envisage us all to be
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on November 13, 2023, 08:14:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 07:42:15 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 06:45:46 PMall seating stadiums like Casement is the way to go for the future of gaelic games.

Fuk off.

You sit and watch a game if you want. Don't deprive others who'd want to stand.

You don't need to worry. There's nearly 2,00O GAA pitches in Ireland where you can stand. I recommended one stadium in each province to be a modern all seater. The grey concrete empty terraces in Páirc Uí Chaoimh look ridiculous. Casement if built to designs will look so much better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Blowitupref on November 13, 2023, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 06:45:46 PMWhile I attended and have nostalgia for big Connacht games on grassy embankments, all seating stadiums like Casement is the way to go for the future of gaelic games. English premiership is seeing the value of modern stadia. Try to get a ticket now to watch an Arsenal match at Highbury and it's sold out every week and tickets on exchange cost a fortune - despite the outcry and laments for the loss of the old terraces where Nick Hornby had a mystical experience watch Liam Brady's goal. Despite the huge improvement, they still could have done a better job with POC by making it all seater. If Casement fell through it would not be a viable replacement for Euros (not that it can be as was not on the list submitted). In an ideal world, there would be a top class all seater GAA stadium in each province in one of the cities.

Standing sections has returned to some grounds in the Premier league. Influenced by the likes of Austria,Germany who's had standing sections for a number of years and how standing really added to the atmosphere at games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 09:09:09 PM
Quote from: Brendan on November 13, 2023, 08:00:14 PMI'm guessing you're a replica of the stereotypical small angry Irish man/Leprechaun the Americans envisage us all to be

Small leprechauns wouldn't get much of a view in the terrace.

Although I'll freely admit I'm pretty angry at the farce that was and continues to be Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 08:14:09 PMYou don't need to worry. There's nearly 2,00O GAA pitches in Ireland where you can stand. I recommended one stadium in each province to be a modern all seater. The grey concrete empty terraces in Páirc Uí Chaoimh look ridiculous. Casement if built to designs will look so much better.

... and if its a provincial game (club or county) that I want to see and it happens to be in Casement?

[which you know the Ulster council are going to flog to death to try and justify it]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on November 13, 2023, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 08:14:09 PMYou don't need to worry. There's nearly 2,00O GAA pitches in Ireland where you can stand. I recommended one stadium in each province to be a modern all seater. The grey concrete empty terraces in Páirc Uí Chaoimh look ridiculous. Casement if built to designs will look so much better.

... and if its a provincial game (club or county) that I want to see and it happens to be in Casement?

[which you know the Ulster council are going to flog to death to try and justify it]

Would it be any different to your club and county playing in Croker when the Hill is closed (as it often is). Nine out of ten times you'll still most likely be in a ground where you can stand. Casement should only be used if a near capacity crowd is expected, or at least 20,000 and up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 13, 2023, 09:40:26 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 09:30:15 PMCasement should only be used if a near capacity crowd is expected, or at least 20,000 and up.
:o

I've been waiting on this....

Indeed. Surely the likes of weareros can't be that stupid they dont realise the ulster council are going to try and fit everything they can think of into casement to try and justify it.

Scotstown vs. Trillick for instance? If Casement were built that's probably where it'd be.

Well... I suppose they are insisting on a relatively high maintenance cost millstone around the neck of the Gaa to little net benefit... So maybe they are that stupid.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2023, 11:00:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 09:10:23 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 08:14:09 PMYou don't need to worry. There's nearly 2,00O GAA pitches in Ireland where you can stand. I recommended one stadium in each province to be a modern all seater. The grey concrete empty terraces in Páirc Uí Chaoimh look ridiculous. Casement if built to designs will look so much better.

... and if its a provincial game (club or county) that I want to see and it happens to be in Casement?



Go up to the last row and stand there ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2023, 11:06:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 13, 2023, 09:40:26 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 09:30:15 PMCasement should only be used if a near capacity crowd is expected, or at least 20,000 and up.
:o

I've been waiting on this....

Indeed. Surely the likes of weareros can't be that stupid they dont realise the ulster council are going to try and fit everything they can think of into casement to try and justify it.

Scotstown vs. Trillick for instance? If Casement were built that's probably where it'd be.

Well... I suppose they are insisting on a relatively high maintenance cost millstone around the neck of the Gaa to little net benefit... So maybe they are that stupid.

Plenty Ulster club finals have been played at Casement in the past
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 14, 2023, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2023, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 13, 2023, 09:40:26 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 09:30:15 PMCasement should only be used if a near capacity crowd is expected, or at least 20,000 and up.
:o

I've been waiting on this....

Indeed. Surely the likes of weareros can't be that stupid they dont realise the ulster council are going to try and fit everything they can think of into casement to try and justify it.

Scotstown vs. Trillick for instance? If Casement were built that's probably where it'd be.

Well... I suppose they are insisting on a relatively high maintenance cost millstone around the neck of the Gaa to little net benefit... So maybe they are that stupid.

Cork GAA have definitely gotten criticism recently for putting on club games in PuC that don't make sense in terms of dragging both clubs long distance from the same direction.
 
I'd say if Ulster GAA got a record of the number of games held at PuC since it opened and the attendances espcially for club games they would be a lot more prudent in terms of the whole Casement project.

Ulster GAA will no doubt be doing the same with the Ulster club championships - they will be dragging teams from all over Ulster up to Casement every chance they can.

In terms of big GAA games suddenly being played in Casement - the exact same stuff was said about PuC pretty much word-for-word. Since it's opened it's got pretty much close to S.F.A in terms of "extra" GAA games compared to what it would have hosted if the most minimal rennovations had been done. The two hurling quarter-finals the year it opened are pretty much the only "extra" GAA games it got. This was despite pretty much putting Cork GAA in examinership. Ulster GAA are deluded if they think Croke Park is going to hand over any significant games it doesn't have to, especially given how much money the corporate boxes bring in the Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on November 14, 2023, 11:14:49 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2023, 05:10:11 PMWas any League Final hurling or football played in De noo Páirc?

I think Limerick played Kilkenny in De noo Páirc in the National League final this year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 16, 2023, 04:34:15 PM
The Northern Ireland secretary has said he is convinced football supporters will back Casement Park as a venue when Euro 2028 comes to the UK and Ireland.

Chris Heaton-Harris was responding to a letter from the Amalgamation of Official Northern Ireland Supporters' Clubs.

It suggested Windsor Park could be expanded to accommodate the games.

Mr Heaton-Harris said he believed Northern Ireland fans would back Casement once it had been built.

Windsor Park is the home of the Northern Ireland football team, but its all-seater capacity of 18,500 is well below the minimum 30,000 requirement for the tournament finals.

Instead a redeveloped Casement Park was put forward as Northern Ireland's sole venue for the UK and Ireland bid.

However, the stadium, a Gaelic games ground, is currently derelict and plans for its redevelopment have been hit by delays and spiralling costs.
"I am actually quite convinced that football fans in Northern Ireland will get behind Casement Park," Mr Heaton-Harris told BBC News NI.

"I'm pretty sure that when it's built it will sell out in the Euros and beyond."

He said having a "strong legacy plan" for the stadium was important and drew economic comparison to the venues built for the London Olympics in 2012.

"Whenever people see what can be done there I think we'll be in a good space," he added.

The new stadium was originally due to cost £76m, but it is now expected to run to at least £110m.

It is not yet clear who will be paying for it, as Northern Ireland continues without a power-sharing government.

When Mr Heaton-Harris was asked when the government would spell out how much funding it is prepared to provide and when that would happen, he said he was not in a position to comment.

Casement Park and the long road to Euro 2028
Casement project has political and sporting significance
On Wednesday, the Irish Football Association (IFA) said there is "no route to fund an expansion" of Windsor Park to make it an alternative venue.

The proposed Casement Park stadium is set to accommodate 34,500 people, but there are concerns over whether it will be ready in time.

Its redevelopment has been hindered by a number of setbacks since first being suggested about a decade ago, including long-running legal challenges.

A number of concerns were raised in the letter from the Amalgamation of Official Northern Ireland Supporters' Clubs.

These included questions over government funding promised to local clubs for the redevelopment of stadia more than a decade ago, which has not been distributed.

The organisation also suggested Northern Ireland fans may not be safe travelling to a venue in west Belfast, which has a predominantly nationalist population.

It said there would be implications for the legacy of the sport if Euro 2028 games were played at Casement Park and questioned the IFA's "plan-B" should the new stadium not be ready in time for the event.

line
This isn't just a sporting or stadium story - it's a political story
Analysis by Mark Simpson, BBC News NI correspondent

There is a race against time going on, a race to get Casement built on time, to get the money to build it and also to try get the fans on board.

Patrick Nelson's language is significant. He wasn't saying to the fans: "I hear you, I feel your pain, we've all got to grin and bear this."

He was on the front foot saying: "We don't have the money to pay for expansion at Windsor Park, we have to go to Casement and you have to get on board."

The elephant in the room is that this isn't just a sporting story, a stadium story - it's a political story.

It's been a political football for many, many years and Patrick Nelson doesn't ignore that saying: "Given that people here on a journey after a difficult past it would be a shame if we missed this opportunity for better engagement between the communities. This is a pivotal moment for football and society."

I've spoken to fans at matches and they don't all feel the same. Some don't love the idea of going to Casement Park but say if Northern Ireland are playing they'll be there. Some fans say they will not go, no matter the circumstances and others are in the Patrick Nelson camp of "for the greater good, let's back this".

I daresay we'll be back at Windsor Park on Monday night to ask fans what they think of this latest development.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2023, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: weareros on November 13, 2023, 06:45:46 PMWhile I attended and have nostalgia for big Connacht games on grassy embankments, all seating stadiums like Casement is the way to go for the future of gaelic games. English premiership is seeing the value of modern stadia. Try to get a ticket now to watch an Arsenal match at Highbury and it's sold out every week and tickets on exchange cost a fortune - despite the outcry and laments for the loss of the old terraces where Nick Hornby had a mystical experience watch Liam Brady's goal. Despite the huge improvement, they still could have done a better job with POC by making it all seater. If Casement fell through it would not be a viable replacement for Euros (not that it can be as was not on the list submitted). In an ideal world, there would be a top class all seater GAA stadium in each province in one of the cities.
I am not sure that enough punters especially in rural counties would be ready to pay the economic cost of tickets for fully seated stadia. Inflation has hammered GAA families. Both the Gardaí and teaching have huge falls in available staff. Public sector salaries are just not keeping up with living costs.

Pairc uí Chaoimh is a warning with its 50 ways of generating extra cash. If you build it they will come but will they pay ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2023, 06:00:10 PM
Wouldn't be safe going through a Nationalist area...
Maybe if ye just went to support yer team and mot turn it into an Orange parade, maybe if ye showed the Residents a bit of respect, maybe if ye could just try and be a little less bigoted....

You know.. try and act like normal people do
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 16, 2023, 06:11:40 PM
They're really pi$#ed off that this is going to happen.

Really annoying them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2023, 06:31:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 16, 2023, 06:11:40 PMThey're really pi$#ed off that this is going to happen.

Really annoying them.
it is so great to see
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2023, 07:48:34 PM
Talkback today was hilarious. Missed the start but they had someone on (might have been a chairman of a NI supporters club) and his gripe was that Casement being a venue would mean no grassroots funding for youth football. When he was asked would he still object to Casement if grassroots funding was guaranteed he said ".....yes."
Then went on a bizarre rant about the GAA being a chill factor.  (Whatever that means)

Then we had some dose from Bangor telling us it was wrong to have a different sport in a stadium than intended and that it wouldn't work. He was reminded by the presenter that NFL regularly comes to Wembley, soccer/rugby both come to the Aviva, both were played in Croke Park etc.

They really are making a complete show of themselves.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2023, 08:17:51 PM
If they built it at the Maze 10plus years, ago for all, they wouldn't be in the cost mire they are. DUP to take all the blame for that one. Even building a few new roads into it, still be way cheaper than the current cost plus Ravenhill and Windsor added in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on November 16, 2023, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2023, 08:17:51 PMIf they built it at the Maze 10plus years, ago for all, they wouldn't be in the cost mire they are. DUP to take all the blame for that one. Even building a few new roads into it, still be way cheaper than the current cost plus Ravenhill and Windsor added in.

I don't believe the Maze stadium was ever  on  the cards.  The GAA played along  knowing that, and got a wad of cash for their troubles,  as did the soccer/rugby crowd

Even if the  Maze project was approved back then , the soccer crowd in particular would  have behaved exactly  like they are now regarding the Casement/Euros deal
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:31:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2023, 07:48:34 PMTalkback today was hilarious. Missed the start but they had someone on (might have been a chairman of a NI supporters club) and his gripe was that Casement being a venue would mean no grassroots funding for youth football. When he was asked would he still object to Casement if grassroots funding was guaranteed he said ".....yes."
Then went on a bizarre rant about the GAA being a chill factor.  (Whatever that means)

Then we had some dose from Bangor telling us it was wrong to have a different sport in a stadium than intended and that it wouldn't work. He was reminded by the presenter that NFL regularly comes to Wembley, soccer/rugby both come to the Aviva, both were played in Croke Park etc.

They really are making a complete show of themselves.
Yer man's mask soon slipped.  Was he a TUV councillor, or maybe just a namesake? Half embarrassing, half depressing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SaffronSports on November 17, 2023, 01:20:21 AM
I for one would be delighted to go and support whoever Northern Ireland are playing at Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on November 17, 2023, 06:43:36 AM
There will be no worry of sell out crowds for the euro games at casement regardless of who is playing. People will want to go.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 17, 2023, 07:55:44 AM
He was a TUV councillor. Interesting that the northern Ireland amalgamation of supporters club dude is so worried about having to go to Andersons town but obviously has no problem for others having to go to Windsor park which is nicely located in a loyalist heartland
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on November 17, 2023, 09:12:13 AM
See it's no big surprise to us up here who have seen this behaviour all our lives and TBH we'd be shocked to see anything other than their hatred of anything Catholic/GAA/Nationalist/Republican blah blah. They can't hide it and never could but we are used to it. A few of our Southern Brethren can see it now but are probably not that bothered like the rest of the UK, all you have to look at is the abuse Irish players have received playing in England and Scotland because they're Catholic. If that abuse was about skin colour there'd be uproar but it's only Irish Catholic so move along there and sweep it under the carpet.
Anyway rant over and back to Casement...the ground will be full if it ever happens but I can tell you now for certain it will be full from others as the die hard NI supporters will not go to that venue. That's a fact...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2023, 09:25:31 AM
Quote from: illdecide on November 17, 2023, 09:12:13 AMSee it's no big surprise to us up here who have seen this behaviour all our lives and TBH we'd be shocked to see anything other than their hatred of anything Catholic/GAA/Nationalist/Republican blah blah. They can't hide it and never could but we are used to it. A few of our Southern Brethren can see it now but are probably not that bothered like the rest of the UK, all you have to look at is the abuse Irish players have received playing in England and Scotland because they're Catholic. If that abuse was about skin colour there'd be uproar but it's only Irish Catholic so move along there and sweep it under the carpet.
Anyway rant over and back to Casement...the ground will be full if it ever happens but I can tell you now for certain it will be full from others as the die hard NI supporters will not go to that venue. That's a fact...
They'll either boycott it, or more likely turn up and try to wreck the GAA's shiny new stadium. I'm sure theres plenty of sensible people in the north who'll go and support their team and not care about a stadium, but the wee billies will try and make a scene.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on November 17, 2023, 11:48:56 AM
Best thing to do is just kill them with kindness. In all honesty if NI did get automatic qualification I'd be more than happy to see them play in Casement, GSTK wouldn't bother me either. There's a lot of hardliners in their support that will boycott anyway - I doubt any of us will lose sleep over it. It will be strange though for NI matches (and any other big games) where will they drink or what bars will they go to beforehand? I doubt the locals in Biddy's will be too pleased to see their local taken over by the GAWA  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 17, 2023, 09:29:08 PM
OWC caving 4-O tonight. They are not going to fill out Casement on that form.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on November 17, 2023, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on November 17, 2023, 09:29:08 PMOWC caving 4-O tonight. They are not going to fill out Casement on that form.

/Jim.

An ex Celtic player scoring against them will wind them up a bit too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on November 18, 2023, 02:26:28 PM
Watching the Arva/Lisnaskea game and Clones looks like it has decayed even more than from this time last year. It's embarrassing actually.
Just get Casement built asap please.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: intheknowhow on November 21, 2023, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 18, 2023, 02:26:28 PMWatching the Arva/Lisnaskea game and Clones looks like it has decayed even more than from this time last year. It's embarrassing actually.
Just get Casement built asap please.

What good would that do? Every pitch is the same in November..

Is this Stephen McGee Han's account?lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on November 21, 2023, 08:59:49 PM
Article in the Athletic about Casement

https://theathletic.com/5073655/2023/11/20/casement-windsor-euro2028-belfast/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on November 24, 2023, 02:09:40 PM
https://ulster.gaa.ie/2023/11/ulster-gaa-statement-on-casement-park-project/

Heron Bros not proceeding as contractor  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on November 24, 2023, 02:29:36 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 24, 2023, 02:09:40 PMhttps://ulster.gaa.ie/2023/11/ulster-gaa-statement-on-casement-park-project/

Heron Bros not proceeding as contractor  :o

Sounds like it has to go out to procurement again given the new costs and passage of time.
Herons might still get the contract but will probably have to re-tender.
Probably a delay that they hadn't anticipated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 24, 2023, 02:32:32 PM
How long would a retender take?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonian on November 24, 2023, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 24, 2023, 02:32:32 PMHow long would a retender take?
Depends on whether the design has changed. They could issue tender documents with a qualification document along with it instead of getting a short list first - that might save 6 weeks. For a project that size you'd need at least 6-8 weeks to price it. Same again to assess it and award it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on November 24, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: clonian on November 24, 2023, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 24, 2023, 02:32:32 PMHow long would a retender take?
Depends on whether the design has changed. They could issue tender documents with a qualification document along with it instead of getting a short list first - that might save 6 weeks. For a project that size you'd need at least 6-8 weeks to price it. Same again to assess it and award it.

Add in a couple of weeks for downtime over christmas too. 4-6 months maybe before it can be awarded I'd guess.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on November 24, 2023, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 24, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: clonian on November 24, 2023, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 24, 2023, 02:32:32 PMHow long would a retender take?
Depends on whether the design has changed. They could issue tender documents with a qualification document along with it instead of getting a short list first - that might save 6 weeks. For a project that size you'd need at least 6-8 weeks to price it. Same again to assess it and award it.

Add in a couple of weeks for downtime over christmas too. 4-6 months maybe before it can be awarded I'd guess.

Still time but they wouldn't want many more setbacks from the point of the tighter timeframe.

I presume there's no Irish outfit that would do this job.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 24, 2023, 07:52:00 PM
Might we see the fleg protest brigade rock up outside casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2023, 07:53:40 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 24, 2023, 07:52:00 PMMight we see the fleg protest brigade rock up outside casement?

Was chatting to a GAA man today about this... oh how we laughed.. hopefully Jamie is there on his wheely bin
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on November 24, 2023, 11:57:16 PM
Big field in Glenavy unused. It's sort of greater West Belfast too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Throw It Up Ref on November 25, 2023, 10:51:45 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 25, 2023, 10:35:58 AMIt would probably be wise to announce how the build is being funded and providing details of financial guarantees before asking people to tender.
I mean, who is going to take the project on without that minor detail in place?
Any ideas on why Heron Bros have pulled the plug at this stage seeing how they've waited patiently on this project for 10 years?

They wouldn't have pulled the plug. Legally the Ulster Council wouldn't have been able to proceed with them as the main contractor due to the massive increase in cost. There are strict regulations on procurement where public money is involved to ensure it's spent correctly. They would have signed a contract 10+ years ago at the cost of £70m. As the new cost is now more than 150% that contract can't legally be modified to suit the existing contractor.

It now goes back out to tender on a pre approved framework of contractors which will speed up the tender process slightly. Not sure what frameworks being used and which contractors are on it but would imagine it'll be the usual big players in infrastructure projects such as Graham, Farrans etc.

There'll be a fairly lengthy design period on the back of an appointment as well. I'd imagine they might try and run the demolition and enabling works either concurrently with the design period or as a separate contract all together.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 25, 2023, 11:05:54 AM
Bureaucracy is a ****.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on November 25, 2023, 01:17:16 PM
Casement is beyond embarrassing at this stage for Ulster GAA.  In the private sector they would be long gone.    Completely butchered at every stage. Not to mention the historic disaster it has been for Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on November 26, 2023, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on November 25, 2023, 10:51:45 AMThey wouldn't have pulled the plug. Legally the Ulster Council wouldn't have been able to proceed with them as the main contractor due to the massive increase in cost. There are strict regulations on procurement where public money is involved to ensure it's spent correctly. They would have signed a contract 10+ years ago at the cost of £70m. As the new cost is now more than 150% that contract can't legally be modified to suit the existing contractor.



Given the Ulster Council are the ones going to be signing the contract, I wonder what assurances/promises they have in place from the other bodies (specifically the UK government) who are providing funds, especially as regards going over budget and/or delays.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 25, 2023, 01:17:16 PMCasement is beyond embarrassing at this stage for Ulster GAA.  In the private sector they would be long gone.    Completely butchered at every stage. Not to mention the historic disaster it has been for Antrim.

Absolutely
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 27, 2023, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 26, 2023, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 25, 2023, 01:17:16 PMCasement is beyond embarrassing at this stage for Ulster GAA.  In the private sector they would be long gone.    Completely butchered at every stage. Not to mention the historic disaster it has been for Antrim.

Absolutely

We need another photo shoot from McGeehan
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Throw It Up Ref on November 27, 2023, 10:33:56 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on November 26, 2023, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on November 25, 2023, 10:51:45 AMThey wouldn't have pulled the plug. Legally the Ulster Council wouldn't have been able to proceed with them as the main contractor due to the massive increase in cost. There are strict regulations on procurement where public money is involved to ensure it's spent correctly. They would have signed a contract 10+ years ago at the cost of £70m. As the new cost is now more than 150% that contract can't legally be modified to suit the existing contractor.



Given the Ulster Council are the ones going to be signing the contract, I wonder what assurances/promises they have in place from the other bodies (specifically the UK government) who are providing funds, especially as regards going over budget and/or delays.

Wouldn't imagine there's anything other than general commitment currently as they still have no idea what the projected completion cost will be. They have an updated cost but it's from a contractor that they can't use. Once they have retendered the scheme and have more accurate costs there'll then be a commitment based on the value.

Can't know for certain but Casement will likely use a project bank account arrangement where the funding money is ring fenced in a separate account for draw downs to the supply chain.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2023, 03:28:15 PM
Will it ever happen? In 2010 the UK economy was far stronger than it is now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on November 27, 2023, 05:11:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2023, 03:28:15 PMWill it ever happen? In 2010 the UK economy was far stronger than it is now.

Casement will get built , but I  don't think it will be ready for the Euros.

But it would be  funny if NI qualified  and they had to  travel to  Birmingham  or Liverpool or somewhere, given their opposition to Casement

It would be even  funnier if NI  didn't qualify ,  Casement was built in time, and West Belfast  benefits hugely

It's a win-win really
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on November 27, 2023, 05:18:39 PM
I have my doubts on whether it will ever happen. The euros changed that doubt a bit but I don't think it'll ever get the money unless it's for something like the euros. It has honestly been a debacle since day one and the people behind it don't deserve to get it built - though some of the rest of us do!

If it doesn't get built for the euros it'll have to be a lot more modest I would think.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AM
The Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 30, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AMThe Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .

It happens in Uk, it happens in Italy, It happens in USA. It happens in loads of countries the world over. The idea that it's an Irish problem is nonsense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 30, 2023, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 30, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AMThe Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .

It happens in Uk, it happens in Italy, It happens in USA. It happens in loads of countries the world over. The idea that it's an Irish problem is nonsense.

Are those Italian stadiums not owned by the city councils? hence the ground sharing - albeit AC Milan looking to move from San Siro. Pretty sure Stade de France is city owned too hence useable for range of sports from rugby to moto cross etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 30, 2023, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 30, 2023, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 30, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AMThe Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .

It happens in Uk, it happens in Italy, It happens in USA. It happens in loads of countries the world over. The idea that it's an Irish problem is nonsense.

Are those Italian stadiums not owned by the city councils? hence the ground sharing - albeit AC Milan looking to move from San Siro. Pretty sure Stade de France is city owned too hence useable for range of sports from rugby to moto cross etc.

Yeah and they both want out. Juventus redeveloped the Sadio delle Alpi and Torino moved to the Olympic stadium.
I agree that we do have far too many stadia and many could be doubled up, but it happens all over the world. It's not unique to here. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on November 30, 2023, 12:01:35 PM
Seaf, you do realise a GAA pitch is much bigger than those of soccerball and ruggerball?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on November 30, 2023, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 30, 2023, 12:01:35 PMSeaf, you do realise a GAA pitch is much bigger than those of soccerball and ruggerball?

This is true but surely in this day and age we can have retractable seating that gets removed for GAA?
There should have been one stadium but sectarianism took over and we hadn't the political leaders to combat it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 30, 2023, 11:14:38 PM
Watching the report on RTÉ Prime Time there, it suggested that the Windsor redevelopment had only used half the money that the IFA was supposed to get and that the rest was never paid. This is a genuine reason for a gripe on that side of the house.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on November 30, 2023, 11:21:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 30, 2023, 11:14:38 PMWatching the report on RTÉ Prime Time there, it suggested that the Windsor redevelopment had only used half the money that the IFA was supposed to get and that the rest was never paid. This is a genuine reason for a gripe on that side of the house.
Hearts broke for them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2023, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 30, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AMThe Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .

It happens in Uk, it happens in Italy, It happens in USA. It happens in loads of countries the world over. The idea that it's an Irish problem is nonsense.
Does any other European country have 4 field sports of national importance and a history of a poor government who couldn't fund hospitals and schools pre l960s, never mind stadia?

Add to this a history of coldness and paranoia between the 3 administrative organisations . There was very little co-operation.

The stadia developed in a very context to now. It was really "sinn féin". "Just us" for the GAA, soccer and rugby.Exclusive,  not inclusive. And Belfast has a sectarian veneer on top. And 2 separate soccer leagues.


https://youtu.be/fjEkjeVzL34?si=3hD_FhjYI8j8MdsN

The pain of the impact of the ban on sporting legends such as Liam Brady is explained by Eamon Dunphy in this excellent documentary about the 2007 visit of England to Croke Park.
https://youtu.be/4cm96rXP9Ag?si=2tkyKyw9odDIJWl5

Just as a lot of hospitals and schools  have religious names, sporting infrastructure is separate and power is centralised. Local governments cannot raise money .

In a parallel world it would make more sense for Cork to buy Páirc Uí Chaoimh to share with soccer and rugby than for the GAA to need 100 different ways to make money to repay the debt. But that is is how it works at the moment.

That is the impact of  history. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 01, 2023, 10:15:56 AM
Seafoid, you are trying too hard, go back to bed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on December 01, 2023, 10:32:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2023, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 30, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AMThe Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .

It happens in Uk, it happens in Italy, It happens in USA. It happens in loads of countries the world over. The idea that it's an Irish problem is nonsense.
Does any other European country have 4 field sports of national importance and a history of a poor government who couldn't fund hospitals and schools pre l960s, never mind stadia?

Add to this a history of coldness and paranoia between the 3 administrative organisations . There was very little co-operation.

The stadia developed in a very context to now. It was really "sinn féin". "Just us" for the GAA, soccer and rugby.Exclusive,  not inclusive. And Belfast has a sectarian veneer on top. And 2 separate soccer leagues.


https://youtu.be/fjEkjeVzL34?si=3hD_FhjYI8j8MdsN

The pain of the impact of the ban on sporting legends such as Liam Brady is explained by Eamon Dunphy in this excellent documentary about the 2007 visit of England to Croke Park.
https://youtu.be/4cm96rXP9Ag?si=2tkyKyw9odDIJWl5

Just as a lot of hospitals and schools  have religious names, sporting infrastructure is separate and power is centralised. Local governments cannot raise money .

In a parallel world it would make more sense for Cork to buy Páirc Uí Chaoimh to share with soccer and rugby than for the GAA to need 100 different ways to make money to repay the debt. But that is is how it works at the moment.

That is the impact of  history. 

That kind of thing happens the world over. You have conflicting sports in every country and it will just be other organisations on the back of it. That problem is a people problem which you will get anywhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2023, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 01, 2023, 10:32:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2023, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 30, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 30, 2023, 08:32:45 AMThe Euros are a bit of a distraction to cover up the delays I think. Ireland is strange in that the 3 main sports all have to build their own infrastructure.  One reason is because all the power is centralised. There is also the history of non cooperation between sports and the ban.  In other countries like France the city builds the infrastructure and different teams use it . If this was in Cork or Belfast  for example there would be one 50,000 stadium built by the city and used by hurling, football, rugby and soccer. This model is much better. It would work very well in Belfast. The city would get concert profits to support other projects. In Ireland the GAA builds its own stadia. Páirc Uí Chaoimh does not get enough matches... It is the problem child of Irish stadia .

It happens in Uk, it happens in Italy, It happens in USA. It happens in loads of countries the world over. The idea that it's an Irish problem is nonsense.
Does any other European country have 4 field sports of national importance and a history of a poor government who couldn't fund hospitals and schools pre l960s, never mind stadia?

Add to this a history of coldness and paranoia between the 3 administrative organisations . There was very little co-operation.

The stadia developed in a very context to now. It was really "sinn féin". "Just us" for the GAA, soccer and rugby.Exclusive,  not inclusive. And Belfast has a sectarian veneer on top. And 2 separate soccer leagues.


https://youtu.be/fjEkjeVzL34?si=3hD_FhjYI8j8MdsN

The pain of the impact of the ban on sporting legends such as Liam Brady is explained by Eamon Dunphy in this excellent documentary about the 2007 visit of England to Croke Park.
https://youtu.be/4cm96rXP9Ag?si=2tkyKyw9odDIJWl5

Just as a lot of hospitals and schools  have religious names, sporting infrastructure is separate and power is centralised. Local governments cannot raise money .

In a parallel world it would make more sense for Cork to buy Páirc Uí Chaoimh to share with soccer and rugby than for the GAA to need 100 different ways to make money to repay the debt. But that is is how it works at the moment.

That is the impact of  history. 

That kind of thing happens the world over. You have conflicting sports in every country and it will just be other organisations on the back of it. That problem is a people problem which you will get anywhere.
Has anyone got any examples ?

Anywhere else in Europe where sports are differentiated by ethnicity or religion like in OWC ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on December 09, 2023, 03:28:13 PM
Most recent state of play on the finances at PuC.

QuoteCork's Páirc Uí Chaoimh debt remains stubbornly north of €30m

CEO report: 'Crippling energy costs, along with fixed charges such as rates present major obstacles. Current stadium debt levels, now resting at over €30m, continue to present a major challenge'

Cork's Páirc Uí Chaoimh debt remains stubbornly north of €30m


FRI, 08 DEC, 2023 - 12:43
JOHN FOGARTY


Cork GAA's Páirc Uí Chaoimh debt remains over €30 million primarily due to no concerts being staged at the venue this year.

As the county reported inter-county team expenditure rising to close to €2m in 2023, the inability to cut the stadium burden from last year remains a pressing and concerning matter.

In his annual report, Cork GAA chief executive Kevin O'Donovan confirmed a new 25-year loan agreement with Croke Park will assist in repaying its debt, which they hope will be fully clear by 2048. However, with only Bruce Springsteen confirmed to play at the Ballintemple venue in 2024, there remains difficulty.

The stadium this year made a comprehensive loss of €2.688m compared to a loss of €3.266m in 2022. Their bank loans as of September 30 were €20.181m, the terms of which are to be revisited in 2028. As of a result of the restructuring with Croke Park, Cork GAA must pay Central Council €636,000 per annum. At the end of September, the loan total was €7,926,438.

"The lack of concerts during 2023 had a major effect on income and with one concert on the books for 2024, returning to profitability will be a major goal," writes O'Donovan. "Crippling energy costs, along with fixed charges such as rates present major obstacles. Current stadium debt levels, now resting at over €30m, continue to present a major challenge.

"In this regard a major positive from 2023 was the signing of a 25-year loan agreement with CLG which will allow a more long-term sustainable approach to repaying debt.

"Also, the sale of Kilbarry will have a significant effect on current debt levels and it is hopeful that the delays in An Bord Pleanala can be overcome to allow a sale in early 2024.

"Finally, with a range of new and exciting commercial partnerships about to be announced at Páirc Uí Chaoimh, naming rights remains on the agenda and there are positive signs here also."

Excluding the stadium accounts, Cork County Board reported a surplus of €467,500. Income-wise, gate receipts from October 2022 to September 2023 were recorded at €1.461m compared to €1.584m in the previous 12-month period. There was a jump of almost €300,000 in gross commercial income to €1.231m, while gross draw income rose by €50,000 to €991,629.

Inter-county expenses came in at €1.995m, over €381,000 more than in 2022. Catering (€413,537), team travel (€421,863) and medical/strength and conditioning and facilities (€634,334) all increased from '22 while there was also a big rise in overnight costs, €143,580 from €38,633.

O'Donovan comments: "A significant jump in commercial income, along with increased returns from Rebels' Bounty contributed to increased revenues. The recent signing of a new 5-year deal with Sports Direct is a major positive in this regard, as is a long-term extension of our partnership with O'Neills.

"Meanwhile, the return from club gates remained high at close to €1.5m despite a slight drop due a seasonal adjustment in relation to final dates and costs associated with the new streaming model.

"Costs associated with inter-county teams increased from €1.614m to €1.995m which reflects the national trend. However, it is worth pointing out that this number includes all six county teams and unlike most counties, reflects an equal investment across both codes."



https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-of-sport/arid-41286145.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on December 12, 2023, 10:40:23 PM
More on the current state of play in Cork with Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

Very tough to shake the notion tha the odds are high Casement has a good chance of turning out similarly.

The issue for the GAA is that if it does turn out similar it will likely affect all of the Ulster counties negatively instead of just one county as in Cork's case.

QuoteFogarty Forum: Páirc Uí Chaoimh strife haunts Cork
Cork GAA do a decent job of acting like a highly functional organisation but so many of their waking hours are occupied with this huge debt.
Fogarty Forum: Páirc Uí Chaoimh strife haunts Cork

TUE, 12 DEC, 2023 - 07:20
JOHN FOGARTY

It is only when you catalogue the inconveniences the redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh and servicing its debt has caused Cork teams that the full picture forms.

We'll get to the €30 million-plus albatross that is going to hang around the neck of the sport in the county for the next quarter of a century in a minute. For now, let's list how it has otherwise discommoded players and supporters.

In February 2019, less than two years after the stadium's reopening, the venue's playing surface cut up so badly during a league double-header that it was closed for the remainder of the league. Urgent work on it meant Cork's Super 8 game against Roscommon that July, which they lost, was moved to Páirc Uí Rinn.

Last year, Cork's hurlers were forced to play their Munster SHC round-robin game against Clare in Thurles, a game they lost, because of Ed Sheeran concerts in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Following weeks of brinksmanship between the Cork players, board and Munster GAA who announced the game would be staged in Killarney, the provincial SFC semi-final against Kerry, which was also pushed out of the Ballintemple stadium because of the gigs, was played in Páirc Uí Rinn.

Next year, Cork's senior footballers will have to play their Sam Maguire/Tailteann Cup round-robin game in Páirc Uí Rinn as the playing surface will not be ready following the Bruce Springsteen concert.
Cork also requested their Munster SHC game against Limerick be arranged for a Saturday evening to allow for the preparations ahead of that May 16 gig, which may have been a contributory factor to the game being shown on GAAGO.

Cork GAA do a decent job of acting like a highly functional organisation and in arranging the 14,000-plus games a year they certainly are. Nevertheless, so many of their waking hours are occupied with this debt, a burden that boots down the road any hope of establishing a long overdue centre of excellence.

They, at least former county board leaders, can't say they weren't warned. Information obtained by the "Irish Examiner" reveals the business plan and Cost Benefit Analysis commissioned by the county board for the stadium to obtain its €30m grant from the Government were dismissed by the then Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport on two occasions.

In March 2015, the department wrote to the Cork County Board stating the CBA "unfortunately falls a good deal short of what of what is required of a CBA as per the Public Spending Code (PSC)".

Three months later, updated versions of the two documents were submitted but again rejected "as "it is not a recognisable cost benefit analysis" and "in conjunction with the lack of other elements that comprise a Business Case, cannot be considered to be in compliance with the Public Spending Code".

The department stated they were concerned about the board's optimism regarding demand projections for match attendances, concert attendances, conference usage and tourism benefits attached to the new stadium.

In August, accompanied by a letter from then GAA director general Páraic Duffy, a new business plan and CBA was issued and approved later that year. Cork stated they were "strictly managing costs" and claimed they could earn €500,000 per annum in naming rights.

Over six years after reopening and that hasn't been realised and there is no question Páirc Ui Chaoimh has been underutilised. It should be hosting more Munster SHC finals. The most modern of all 20,000-plus capacity stadiums in the country never mind the province, there is stark contrast between it and the fading allure of FBD Semple Stadium and TUS Gaelic Grounds.

Cork canvassed intensely but failed to bring the event to the venue this past year. Convincing the GAA to bring All-Ireland quarter-finals there has also proven a challenge, the last without crowd restrictions being the 2018 Clare-Wexford game.

Páirc Uí Chaoimh has become a bogeyman story in the GAA, a constant reminder to national GAA officials of what can happen when counties produce financial projections that are "overly ambitious", as GAA director general Tom Ryan said of Páirc Uí Chaoimh in 2019.

Two years earlier, Cork were saying otherwise about themselves when they sought the €30m Government funding. "CCB has a track record of prudent financial management of their affairs and is confident of being able to adequately manage both the funding and expenditure aspects of the project, as well as its ongoing operation."

As Cork GAA chief executive Kevin O'Donovan, who was appointed in December 2018, said in September, the county hopes to be free of its stadium debt by 2048, 31 years after it reopened following the redevelopment.

Ahead of convention this evening, he returned from the One Cork Worldwide roadshow in the US last week as efforts to fundraise among the diaspora are stepped up. The monies will go towards teams but you can't help feeling it wouldn't be so necessary if Cork weren't mortgaged to their necks.


QuoteCork GAA facing €5 million cashflow crisis unless Páirc operations 'massively' improve
Cork secretary Kevin O'Donovan described the county's cash flow problem as 'stark'.


TUE, 12 DEC, 2023 - 22:15
EOGHAN CORMICAN

Unless there is a "massive improvement" in the operation of Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork GAA is facing a €5 million cashflow crisis over the next five years.

At the Cork convention on Tuesday evening, Freemount delegate John O'Flynn drew attention to the "hidden liability" of advance income totalling €4.8m.

O'Flynn explained that the figure relates primarily to Páirc Uí Chaoimh premium level seat sales over the past five years, money which has already been received and spent.

"That well is going to run dry very shortly because there aren't that many premium seats left (for sale). Our cashflow is going to dry up over the next five years," O'Flynn warned.

The Freemount delegate said the cashflow outlook is very worrying given the redeveloped Páirc Uí Chaoimh has turned a profit in only one year, 2022, and that owed to five concerts being staged at the venue.

"We have a stadium that is losing money," O'Flynn said of Páirc Uí Chaoimh's €2.688m loss in 2023.

"For all the years we have got stadium accounts, the stadium has lost money every single year except in 2022 when we had five concerts. I hope we have five concerts in the future, but that is unlikely.

"So we are really challenged for the stadium to even break even. The reality is that if we break even over the next five years, we are going to have a cash shortfall of about €4.8 million because we have already got that cash and it has already been spent.

"Until we sell Kilbarry, we are not going to reduce stadium debt (€31m) and we understand that. But there is a bigger issue coming down the track, it's the cashflow for the next four or five years.

"I would be really concerned that unless there is a massive improvement in the operation of the stadium or huge income from GAA activity, then we are going to struggle to meet that cash requirement over the next five years." There was no disputing of O'Flynn's worrying forecast from the executive top table.

Cork county board treasurer Diarmuid Gowan said that with only one concert in the pipeline for next year, it will make 2024 "very challenging".

Cork secretary Kevin O'Donovan described the county's cash flow problem as "stark".

He said concerts are "windfall" events and that the stadium needs to reach a "steady-state position" where it is not reliant on concerts to turn a profit.

O'Donovan remarked that soccer games at Páirc Uí Chaoimh are not off the table going forward.

"It is a very dangerous model for us to base a business plan on three concerts a year, which was done previously. They are windfalls. They come, they go.

"In terms of GAA activity, you know the challenges we face in getting major games to this stadium. All we hear is negativity. That is why we have to continue to explore other sports. Expect a debate on soccer coming too in the future. We have to consider those in the context of the stark financial picture we are in.

"Our discussion every day is cashflow, rather than profit and loss. Commercial partnerships could bring in €500,000 a year to this stadium in the very near future. We have two deals signed, we have another almost signed."

In his parting speech, outgoing county board chairman Marc Sheehan said the reticence of counties to travel to Páirc Uí Chaoimh needs to dissipate in 2024 and beyond.

"Let us not understate the significance of Páirc Uí Chaoimh. It remains the most modern GAA venue in Ireland despite seemingly incessant sniping from some quarters.

"Perhaps if some of the energy dispensed by others outside of the county with criticism of our stadium was channeled more meaningfully within their own units, it might result in better infrastructural outcomes for other units," said Sheehan.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on January 09, 2024, 10:46:29 AM
The Irish FA remain 'confident' that the new Casement Park will be completed in time for Northern Ireland to co-host the 2028 European Championship finals.
At the beginning of a make or break year for UEFA to stick with Euro 2028 games being played here, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal to that end a group called the Northern Ireland Oversight Committee has been formed consisting of IFA, GAA and government partners.

The group was put together at the end of 2023 and tasked with meeting on a monthly basis to ensure that all aspects of the project are on track.

The construction of a 'new' 34,500 capacity Casement Park has been beset by problems for over a decade with delays due to legal challenges and since it was announced that the GAA stadium would be one of 10 venues for Euro 2028 fixtures in the UK and Ireland controversy has raged with many Northern Ireland fans slamming the IFA and voicing their disapproval of the team playing games at the west Belfast ground.

This year IFA Chief Executive Patrick Nelson and President Conrad Kirkwood plan to meet fans across the country to answer questions on Casement Park and other issues having held a first Q and A session with members of the Kilkeel Northern Ireland Supporters Club in November.

While the IFA attempt to get fans onside, the GAA need to appoint a new contractor so work can start on the stadium this year which is considered a priority if it is to be built in time for the Euro 2028 tournament.

In 2013 it was agreed that Casement would be constructed by the England-based Buckingham Group and the Northern Ireland firm Heron Bros but the Buckingham Group went into administration in September.

Two months later the Ulster GAA stated that Heron Bros would not proceed with the project and that they were working with the Department of Communities to secure a new contractor.

Originally the budget to build Casement Park was set at £77.5m with the NI Executive paying £62.5m and the GAA providing £15m. All these years on with the rise of construction costs some estimate the fees could be in the region of £160m.

The British government have pledged to foot the bill with the Republic of Ireland government pointing out they will also help with costs while the GAA are still committed to handing over £15 million.

Despite all the issues, key sources in the IFA say they are confident that Casement Park will be finished on time and ready to stage games in Euro 2028.

The new Northern Ireland Oversight Committee is seen as key to making that happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 30, 2024, 09:31:28 PM
I wonder what is the consequence of the Assembly restarting for this project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on January 31, 2024, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 30, 2024, 09:31:28 PMI wonder what is the consequence of the Assembly restarting for this project?
None I think. It can go ahead without the Assembly.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Norm-Peterson on January 31, 2024, 08:16:18 PM
The GAA were glad to get the army out of Casement park and now they can't wait to get Northern Ireland loyalist fans in.

https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/5ba0c398df0d480029d4d66a?q=Casement%20park&size=30

https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/5ba0c392df0d480029d4d5fd?q=Casement%20park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on January 31, 2024, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: Norm-Peterson on January 31, 2024, 08:16:18 PMThe GAA were glad to get the army out of Casement park and now they can't wait to get Northern Ireland loyalist fans in.

https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/5ba0c398df0d480029d4d66a?q=Casement%20park&size=30

https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/5ba0c392df0d480029d4d5fd?q=Casement%20park

Brits out, Irish in, that is the GAA down to the ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 15, 2024, 01:10:56 PM
I see local residents have been informed of "maintenance and pre-enabling works" and "enabling works including site clearance" between now and June
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2024, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 15, 2024, 01:10:56 PMI see local residents have been informed of "maintenance and pre-enabling works" and "enabling works including site clearance" between now and June

Probably could have been at the maintenance a few years ago!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 04:30:43 PM
The Shinners should push for Casement to be included in the budget for the Childrens Hospital in Dublin. It's only small change compared to the hospital.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:07:27 PM
Its gonna take a few £million just to clear the site.

I wonder how Stormont dodged the procurement rules on this.

Obviously some contractor is being handed a blank cheque and no doubt will fill their boots.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 15, 2024, 06:17:05 PM
Is there a contractor assigned to it yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 15, 2024, 06:26:34 PM
Shinners should be pushing now for the funding for Casement Park now with the Brits as they are now talking and meeting about funding.

Nail it down now as a non-negeoible.

No better chance than now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 15, 2024, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:07:27 PMIts gonna take a few £million just to clear the site.

I wonder how Stormont dodged the procurement rules on this.

Obviously some contractor is being handed a blank cheque and no doubt will fill their boots.

And: you know this:- or you are just saying?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2024, 06:41:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 04:30:43 PMThe Shinners should push for Casement to be included in the budget for the Childrens Hospital in Dublin. It's only small change compared to the hospital.

Best economy in all of Europe, not sure why the south would need money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 15, 2024, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:07:27 PMIts gonna take a few £million just to clear the site.

I wonder how Stormont dodged the procurement rules on this.

Obviously some contractor is being handed a blank cheque and no doubt will fill their boots.



And: you know this:- or you are just saying?

Just saying.

Yes in private sector you can mobilise a contractor fairly quickly as it is your own money ultimately.  Different ball game when it comes to public sector with the need for transparency and what not.

For all you know there could be a couple of government departments who need to shift capital money before the end of the year so this could be a win win for them.

Procurement law went out the window when Covid came, cant see Casement as being as critical though.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: barelegs on February 15, 2024, 06:59:25 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 15, 2024, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:07:27 PMIts gonna take a few £million just to clear the site.

I wonder how Stormont dodged the procurement rules on this.

Obviously some contractor is being handed a blank cheque and no doubt will fill their boots.



And: you know this:- or you are just saying?

Just saying.

Yes in private sector you can mobilise a contractor fairly quickly as it is your own money ultimately.  Different ball game when it comes to public sector with the need for transparency and what not.

For all you know there could be a couple of government departments who need to shift capital money before the end of the year so this could be a win win for them.

Procurement law went out the window when Covid came, cant see Casement as being as critical though.



That's to assume it's being take forward by a government department. If Ulster GAA were funding the initial works themselves they'd be able to move things on fairly quickly. They've committed £15m to the project. That can be spent any time.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 15, 2024, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:07:27 PMIts gonna take a few £million just to clear the site.

I wonder how Stormont dodged the procurement rules on this.

Obviously some contractor is being handed a blank cheque and no doubt will fill their boots.
Maybe GAA are doing this.

Has the tender been issued yet for a new contractor?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 15, 2024, 11:21:31 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 15, 2024, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: LC on February 15, 2024, 06:07:27 PMIts gonna take a few £million just to clear the site.

I wonder how Stormont dodged the procurement rules on this.

Obviously some contractor is being handed a blank cheque and no doubt will fill their boots.



And: you know this:- or you are just saying?

Just saying.

Yes in private sector you can mobilise a contractor fairly quickly as it is your own money ultimately.  Different ball game when it comes to public sector with the need for transparency and what not.

For all you know there could be a couple of government departments who need to shift capital money before the end of the year so this could be a win win for them.

Procurement law went out the window when Covid came, cant see Casement as being as critical though.



I'm not so sure on that...Private or Public sector is a minefield...Any big jobs such as Casement will have the big guns after it, it will have to be tendered with a PQQ first of all to eliminate the list down to usually 5 Contractors. Then the Principal Contractor will be selected from a team of different Professionals from Funding(Government Department), GAA, Consultant/Designer and a few more who will score each Tender based on price, experience, skills etc etc. Even then I have seen Contractors challenge the decision in Court and win their case...

Having said all of the above that's on normal schemes and Casement is def not normal, this scheme has went on for that long I lost interest in it a long time ago but there is something in the back of my wee pea brain telling me that there was a Contractor appointed for the scheme and they had to be paid a % as part of the Contract which went on for years but I think they may have either went tits up or pulled out...genuinely can't remember...For some strange reason the DUP guy over this wouldn't answer a question yesterday about if a Contractor had already been appointed. Basically a sh1t show.
My line of work involves large Civil Engineering schemes which have included stadium Designs so this had me really interested in all of this at the start but that dwindled as the years went on and lost interest in it, I also remember discussing Casement with one of the top Stadia Safety Officers in the Mainland UK who knew about the shambles of Casement from over there and knew all about their safety issues way back at the start. No one over the water wanted to know anything about this design for a reasons not to be discussed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 16, 2024, 02:51:07 PM
I lost you at mainland!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2024, 03:36:39 PM
You can tell that Stormont is open again because there is money flying all over the palce.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on February 16, 2024, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 16, 2024, 02:51:07 PMI lost you at mainland!

Fair enough...lol. Didn't realise what I had typed was so late last night ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 20, 2024, 12:16:27 PM
Irish Government just announced 50m for Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 20, 2024, 12:24:41 PM
That should soften some coughs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 20, 2024, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 12:24:41 PMThat should soften some coughs.
I found a figure online the Executive allocated £61m, GAA have said £15m and now the Irish Gov have said £46m. What's that leave? £80m? Cough up Rishi.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PM
Well done Leo
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2024, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PMWell done Leo

It is pretty generous all things considered.
In the spirit of generosity I think the GAA should increase their contribution to reflect inflation since the original budget and put maximum pressure on the British.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2024, 01:23:27 PM
Fantastic news. Get her built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2024, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PMWell done Leo

It is pretty generous all things considered.
In the spirit of generosity I think the GAA should increase their contribution to reflect inflation since the original budget and put maximum pressure on the British.


That seems like the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on February 20, 2024, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2024, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PMWell done Leo

It is pretty generous all things considered.
In the spirit of generosity I think the GAA should increase their contribution to reflect inflation since the original budget and put maximum pressure on the British.


That seems like the right thing to do.

Jarlath on the ball soon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on February 20, 2024, 01:59:28 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PMWell done Leo

Nah, he's still a c*nt but great to get the money though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 20, 2024, 05:19:38 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 20, 2024, 01:59:28 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PMWell done Leo

Nah, he's still a c*nt but great to get the money though.

 ;D

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PM
It's not Leo's money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's mine!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 06:44:58 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.


Oh!
I forgot that I should feel grateful that the Irish Nation should commit its resources to supporting the Irish Nation in its own country.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2024, 07:37:05 PM
Orbital, David Holmes & DJ Helen Featuring Mike Garry – Tonight In Belfast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yk9qUle01Q
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 20, 2024, 08:02:01 PM
Money welcome, how much did they fire at Mess in Cork when it was been built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 06:44:58 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.


Oh!
I forgot that I should feel grateful that the Irish Nation should commit its resources to supporting the Irish Nation in its own country.

Lazy Unproductive Nordies getting free Money  could at least say thanks.

And your tax goes to.....?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 21, 2024, 12:34:29 AM
We not bail u out to the tune of 8 billion a few years back when the banks sunk themselves, lol
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on February 21, 2024, 01:05:37 AM
should they be looking at spreading the semi finals around the country or at least quarter finals
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 21, 2024, 07:42:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 06:44:58 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.


Oh!
I forgot that I should feel grateful that the Irish Nation should commit its resources to supporting the Irish Nation in its own country.

Lazy Unproductive Nordies getting free Money  could at least say thanks.

And your tax goes to.....?

This is a typical partitonist statement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 21, 2024, 07:44:22 AM
QuoteHe told BBC News NI: "Pre-enabling works will continue over the next few months.

"The main contract of work will begin later in the year. Our target is to have the stadium finished around the summer of 2027 which won't be done for the Ulster final.

"However, we will be delivering a stadium that will need to have ramp-up events and test events that will take place later in 2027, with the full focus on being Euro and Uefa-ready for 2028."
Had hoped it would be ready. Will the 2028 final be there with the Euros?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 07:48:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 06:44:58 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.


Oh!
I forgot that I should feel grateful that the Irish Nation should commit its resources to supporting the Irish Nation in its own country.

Lazy Unproductive Nordies getting free Money  could at least say thanks.

And your tax goes to.....?

Southerners will use the A5 by the bucketload to get from Dublin to Donegal or vice versa. They will use Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2024, 08:35:49 AM
There is a video here showing what Casement would look like if everything is paid for
 
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/dup-leader-wants-clarity-over-costs-after-the-taoiseachs-50m-commitment-to-casement/a132338831.html
There will be a lot of Gaeilge in it

The Irish Govt pays $50m and the GAA chips in with the site and another amount. Is it £50m? There is still a funding gap of at least £100m

Steve Aiken was on Drivetime on RTE Radio 1 yesterday. https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22358394/

He said that the stadium will have to pay its way so it will be like Croke Park in that regard. All the concerts, big Belfast soccer matches, big Ulster rubby matches will happen in it. A real headfuck for Jim Allister. If the IFA can earn a windfall playing in Casement but all that Curry my yogurt in the dressing rooms..... 


The only thing is how much will the UK Gov pony up.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 21, 2024, 08:54:43 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 21, 2024, 12:34:29 AMWe not bail u out to the tune of 8 billion a few years back when the banks sunk themselves, lol

What the Brits did there was to prevent contagion.

A lot of British banks were on the hook for Irish Band debt so smart play by the UK Gov.
By bailing out the Irish banks they prevented UK Banks from possibly going under as well and all paid for by the Irish tax payer!


WRT Casement the ball is squarely in the Tory Governments court to respond in kind to this and the A5 redevelopment, but this current shower are only going to be in power for a few more months it's hard to know if they'll lumber the incoming Labour Gov with this commitment or hold off a leave it up to Kier Starmer and Co.

Either way the DUP are struggling to respond to such largess from the Irish Gov in a coherent manner and that's good.

 ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Taylor on February 21, 2024, 08:56:57 AM
I hope not but I think this could take Stormont down.

DUP will do everything in their power to ensure it doesnt go ahead - SF will then pull out of Power sharing and DUP will then be hammering SF on every media outlet going about putting a sports stadium before public services etc.

The DUP know their race is run (possibly forever) unless they get some sort of public backlash against SF.

Maybe I am giving them too much credit for planning ahead
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on February 21, 2024, 08:59:28 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 21, 2024, 08:56:57 AMI hope not but I think this could take Stormont down.

DUP will do everything in their power to ensure it doesnt go ahead - SF will then pull out of Power sharing and DUP will then be hammering SF on every media outlet going about putting a sports stadium before public services etc.

The DUP know their race is run (possibly forever) unless they get some sort of public backlash against SF.

Maybe I am giving them too much credit for planning ahead

Íosa Críost. If theyre pulling down a govt over a stadium they might as well bulldoze Stormont and be done with it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 21, 2024, 09:00:33 AM
Yeah can't see that outcome tbh. SF are bit wilier than the DUP tbf to them whether you like them or not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2024, 09:01:08 AM
Donaldson's grudging statement was embarrassing to say the least.

As for the "British Bail out" - it was a LOAN (€800m?) at 8% Interest, later reduced to 6% and Isn't it now paid off?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2024, 09:06:41 AM
If they use Casement as a political football (even more than they have already) it is down to the media to call them up on the many different things that have hampered public services in the past 3 or more years.

The media either on purpose or lack of balls, give the DUP and others a bye ball for large parts with regards to loss of monies or waste of money in the past.

It takes the national media to actually embarrass them into a corner, as the local outlets seem to be afraid of the backlash, that or like Nolan prefer to stoke the fires
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on February 21, 2024, 09:12:29 AM
Should the GAA not be scaling back the plans to develop a new stadium within the budget and saying they will have it completed 2029.

A good surface and a couple of tin shed for stands and tear up any mention of UEFA standards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 21, 2024, 09:39:41 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.
I'd disagree there. The 600m on roads will benefit the people of Donegal and such who will use that road. While in a roundabout way the 50m for Casement will benefit the 3 Ulster counties not in the North. h emay get a few votes on the back of it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 21, 2024, 09:47:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2024, 09:12:29 AMShould the GAA not be scaling back the plans to develop a new stadium within the budget and saying they will have it completed 2029.

A good surface and a couple of tin shed for stands and tear up any mention of UEFA standards.

Why can't we have a modern fit for purpose stadium to play our games in?

Soccer and Rugby got their stadiums and no one moaned about the cost or health or other pressures.
The British government conducted TWO failed nuclear weapons test recently. Cost? 17m EACH. Didn't hear anyone moaning about the cost of that.

There is always a case to be made for spending community and art money on health or education. But if we bowed to that short sighted pressure nothing would get built or done and society would be worse off for it.

This is part of a commitment made by successive Tory and Stormont governments. The GAA has been more than accommodating in what it prepared to do and give. There is no good reason not to build it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2024, 10:06:51 AM
https://www.casementpark.ie/

Ulster GAA has hosted the first meeting of the Casement Park Community Engagement and Benefits Forum which will help to bring to life the many socio-economic and cultural opportunities that the new stadium will provide for west Belfast and the wider region.

Members of the Forum come from a range of community and professional backgrounds and have a broad skillset that will help to establish and deliver a community wealth building programme which will create social value from construction through to completion and beyond.

The Forum will be an important catalyst to ignite the exciting opportunities that Casement Park offers, by working closely with local organisations and the wider community to unlock the stadium's full potential.

The areas of expertise within the Forum include education and skills, social enterprise, culture, arts, tourism, economic development and sport.

At the launch event, which was held at the recently redeveloped St. Comgall's Community Centre in West Belfast, Ulster GAA updated Forum members on the current work of the project team as they prepare for the construction phase of stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 21, 2024, 10:11:49 AM
DUP for all of Little Pengelly and we Jeffs warm words are unreconstructed bigots, anti any thing going to the nationalist community and with every utterance they prove this statelet can not work. The faux concern over costs of Casement ignores the lack of provision by the state  or councils for GAA, ignores the fact that the GAA reinvests in  its clubs and our communities. £63m is ok for an ice bowl, a f**king Ice Bowl, but not for Casement. Says it all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2024, 10:25:00 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 21, 2024, 10:11:49 AMDUP for all of Little Pengelly and we Jeffs warm words are unreconstructed bigots, anti any thing going to the nationalist community and with every utterance they prove this statelet can not work. The faux concern over costs of Casement ignores the lack of provision by the state  or councils for GAA, ignores the fact that the GAA reinvests in  its clubs and our communities. £63m is ok for an ice bowl, a f**king Ice Bowl, but not for Casement. Says it all.

Far be it from me to defend the DUP, but the GAA made a complete balls of Casement and the end result is more expensive than it needed to have been. This provides an excuse for the naysayers as they can cover up prejudice by pointing to the cost.  You would like to think that the delay has led to a design that can be built effectively, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2024, 10:42:14 AM
Meanwhile stereotype "whingy moany soccer man" Damien Duff complaining about the Government giving money to Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tiempo on February 21, 2024, 11:09:35 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2024, 10:42:14 AMMeanwhile stereotype "whingy moany soccer man" multimillionaire Damien Duff complaining about the Government giving money to Casement.


Fixed that for you, what a dose of shite he is
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 21, 2024, 11:18:53 AM
Maybe he'll ask his little zionist buddy Robbie to hand back the wages the FAI paid him despite his tenure being up with the national team. Real legend alright!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 21, 2024, 11:43:06 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 21, 2024, 09:39:41 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.
I'd disagree there. The 600m on roads will benefit the people of Donegal and such who will use that road. While in a roundabout way the 50m for Casement will benefit the 3 Ulster counties not in the North. h emay get a few votes on the back of it

It will great for the whole country to have a top class GAA stadium in Belfast and a safe motorway connecting Derry to Dublin. I doubt it's a vote winner in 26 but you never know. I wouldn't think Clones will be too happy if Ulster Finals move on a permanent basis to Belfast. That's revenue shift for local business.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 21, 2024, 12:02:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 21, 2024, 11:43:06 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 21, 2024, 09:39:41 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.
I'd disagree there. The 600m on roads will benefit the people of Donegal and such who will use that road. While in a roundabout way the 50m for Casement will benefit the 3 Ulster counties not in the North. h emay get a few votes on the back of it

It will great for the whole country to have a top class GAA stadium in Belfast and a safe motorway connecting Derry to Dublin. I doubt it's a vote winner in 26 but you never know. I wouldn't think Clones will be too happy if Ulster Finals move on a permanent basis to Belfast. That's revenue shift for local business.
Theres feck all local businesses left in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2024, 12:37:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2024, 10:42:14 AMMeanwhile stereotype "whingy moany soccer man" Damien Duff complaining about the Government giving money to Casement.

He is entitled to make his point.
League of ireland is the poor relation.

Casement will generate a lot of money if it is managed properly. Norn Irn soccer matches could bring in a lot of money. The big touring rugby sides could play in Belfast. PUC got a substantial cut last year from the visit of South Africa .Windsor Park could become just a Linfield stadium.

Billy Ray Cyrus  would  bring in all the Tyronies of both traditions at the drop of a cowboy hat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQIPdHMpjc

The Ulster final in Clones would not be a big financial loss to Casement if other sports chipped in the rest of the year. Or they could alternate.

Money can really bring people together. Pairc mhic Easmuinn could be a real game changer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 21, 2024, 12:46:21 PM
When the new casement is built, no one  will want to go to Clones for an Ulster final. Its run down and would need alot of money spent on it to get alternative ulster finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 5times5times on February 21, 2024, 12:59:11 PM
People who want the Ulster final to remain in Clones need their heads examined.

Town = dump
Ground = dump
Roads = crap
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on February 21, 2024, 01:10:28 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 21, 2024, 12:59:11 PMPeople who want the Ulster final to remain in Clones need their heads examined.

Town = dump
Ground = dump
Roads = crap

No matter what happens casement, there shouldn't ever be a final in Clones again. What a complete kip of a place.

Dark ages stuff here. Imagine not wanting a top class stadium in the country's second biggest city. Corrigan is there for the smaller games and crowds. Though I'm sure an agreement can be made to hold the county finals there in a 90% empty stadium like it always did in the past.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 21, 2024, 01:23:38 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 21, 2024, 01:10:28 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 21, 2024, 12:59:11 PMPeople who want the Ulster final to remain in Clones need their heads examined.

Town = dump
Ground = dump
Roads = crap

No matter what happens casement, there shouldn't ever be a final in Clones again. What a complete kip of a place.

Dark ages stuff here. Imagine not wanting a top class stadium in the country's second biggest city. Corrigan is there for the smaller games and crowds. Though I'm sure an agreement can be made to hold the county finals there in a 90% empty stadium like it always did in the past.

People are simpletons.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on February 21, 2024, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 21, 2024, 12:59:11 PMPeople who want the Ulster final to remain in Clones need their heads examined.

Town = dump
Ground = dump
Roads = crap

That about sums Clones up.

Not to highjack this thread, from our own point of view Celtic Park is fast becoming a Clones like ground. I don't mind going to games in Celtic Park but the Derry County Board need to be putting a plan in place to modernise the place or bring Owenbeg up to a bigger capacity.

The best time to plant a tree was 50 years ago, the next best time is now!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonian on February 21, 2024, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 21, 2024, 01:23:38 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 21, 2024, 01:10:28 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 21, 2024, 12:59:11 PMPeople who want the Ulster final to remain in Clones need their heads examined.

Town = dump
Ground = dump
Roads = crap

No matter what happens casement, there shouldn't ever be a final in Clones again. What a complete kip of a place.

Dark ages stuff here. Imagine not wanting a top class stadium in the country's second biggest city. Corrigan is there for the smaller games and crowds. Though I'm sure an agreement can be made to hold the county finals there in a 90% empty stadium like it always did in the past.

People are simpletons.

But it was great craic in the 90s...

I honestly couldn't believe how bad it was when I went last year having not been there for a few years. Taking kids to places makes you look at everything differently too. Casement was better before it was closed down ffs - at least the pathways are bitmac/concrete
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 02:29:45 PM
Brolly called Clones the Bangladesh of Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 21, 2024, 02:54:15 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 21, 2024, 11:43:06 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 21, 2024, 09:39:41 AM
Quote from: weareros on February 20, 2024, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 05:29:35 PMIt's not Leo's money.

It's not but at least his government has been generating surpluses to be in a position to do so. There's not one vote for Irish gov in 26 for any of this. This €800m is on top of €50m already signed off on for Magee, paying to keep North in Erasmus, €10m to fund nursing places, €200m contribution to EU peace fund, and of course a lot of work to keep North in EU customs union which provides free access to lucrative EU market for farmers and business while 26 is a net contributor not to mention letting EU raid our seas for the privilege. And I was and am a strong supporter of Dublin funding Casement as can be seen earlier in this thread.
I'd disagree there. The 600m on roads will benefit the people of Donegal and such who will use that road. While in a roundabout way the 50m for Casement will benefit the 3 Ulster counties not in the North. h emay get a few votes on the back of it

It will great for the whole country to have a top class GAA stadium in Belfast and a safe motorway connecting Derry to Dublin. I doubt it's a vote winner in 26 but you never know. I wouldn't think Clones will be too happy if Ulster Finals move on a permanent basis to Belfast. That's revenue shift for local business.
Well my outlaws are North Donegal, so likes of those might see benefit of the road is all
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 21, 2024, 02:56:09 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on February 21, 2024, 12:59:11 PMPeople who want the Ulster final to remain in Clones need their heads examined.

Town = dump
Ground = dump
Roads = crap
I completely 100% agree. But there is still something about that place on Ulster final day...

It should indeed move though, times move on
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tiempo on February 21, 2024, 02:58:07 PM
Off topic but would the Antrim SHC final be worth attending for the experience/atmosphere, heard it can be great fayre, are they days of it in Ballycastle/Dunloy over?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Pub Bore on February 21, 2024, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: tiempo on February 21, 2024, 02:58:07 PMOff topic but would the Antrim SHC final be worth attending for the experience/atmosphere, heard it can be great fayre, are they days of it in Ballycastle/Dunloy over?

Championship wise Antrim hurling has been dominated by Dunloy, Loughgiel and Cushendall for more than 30 years.  Apart from O'Donovan Rossa of Belfast who won in 1988 and 2004, the other 3 have won every championship since 1986.  That was the year that Ballycastle last won...believe it or not.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 03:55:50 PM
The money isn't there.  Just a wing and a prayer as things stand. A holy disgrace that Antrim gaels have had no stadium in the meantime and an absolute fiasco from the Ulster Council who continue to queue up to have their photo taken as if it's some sort of success story. Pull the plug and build an Athletics Ground stadium that will have a good atmosphere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2024, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 03:55:50 PMThe money isn't there.  Just a wing and a prayer as things stand. A holy disgrace that Antrim gaels have had no stadium in the meantime and an absolute fiasco from the Ulster Council who continue to queue up to have their photo taken as if it's some sort of success story. Pull the plug and build an Athletics Ground stadium that will have a good atmosphere.

They could do that and ask the Irish government to spend the money on Clones instead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on February 21, 2024, 04:15:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2024, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 03:55:50 PMThe money isn't there.  Just a wing and a prayer as things stand. A holy disgrace that Antrim gaels have had no stadium in the meantime and an absolute fiasco from the Ulster Council who continue to queue up to have their photo taken as if it's some sort of success story. Pull the plug and build an Athletics Ground stadium that will have a good atmosphere.

They could do that and ask the Irish government to spend the money on Clones instead.

Feck no. Investing that amount of money into Clones would be utter madness.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2024, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on February 21, 2024, 04:15:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2024, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 03:55:50 PMThe money isn't there.  Just a wing and a prayer as things stand. A holy disgrace that Antrim gaels have had no stadium in the meantime and an absolute fiasco from the Ulster Council who continue to queue up to have their photo taken as if it's some sort of success story. Pull the plug and build an Athletics Ground stadium that will have a good atmosphere.

They could do that and ask the Irish government to spend the money on Clones instead.

Feck no. Investing that amount of money into Clones would be utter madness.

So where do you hold Ulster finals?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 05:39:06 PM
I think it's time to step back and re-calibrate. There has been negativity around casement from the start, and my own views have changed over the years.
I think any criticism of the ulster council has to be tempered by the fact that they were breaking new ground on a mammoth project and experience and knowledge were thin on the ground .the lack of consideration of residents was a big weakness , and unfortunately has given the whole project a bad rep.
However there is no doubt that an anti-GAA agenda has been pro-actively negative from the start. This anti-GAA element, incredibly, is not just from unionists.

Genuine concerns must be addressed but there are overwhelming positives to this project:
For everybody including Stormont government : economic spin-off and feel good factor for Belfast with big games, events , and impressive aesthetics .
For GAA: second best stadium in second biggest city. Worldwide recognition , income generation
For Antrim: a state of the art venue for their games and their promotion of the gAA

The GAA have secured 50k from Southern government , and will perhaps increase its own contribution via internal and external funding to make it happen .

The precedent has been set by its ambition in re-building Croke Park 30 years ago, benefitting the GAA and everybody else in terms of economic /tax benefits .


The British government and stormont will have to stump up a significant sum but they'll get it back in droves in terms of economic and social benefit.
The initial planned outlay must be significantly increased due to inflation and cost of labour and materials , alone .

Those of an "Irish" background should be careful not to support vexatious concerns from anti-gaa , anti-Irish sources .

Casement must happen because:
1. Genuine Concerns can be addressed.
2. Antrim GAA people deserve it
3. Ulster GAA people deserve it
4. West belfast deserves it
5. Belfast and the neglected 9 counties of Ulster deserve it.
6. The Euros has presented an opportunity
7. Shared future by benefitting all
8.  Not allowing further DUP bullying and lack of generosity to hold us back


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on February 21, 2024, 05:48:30 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 03:55:50 PMThe money isn't there.  Just a wing and a prayer as things stand. A holy disgrace that Antrim gaels have had no stadium in the meantime and an absolute fiasco from the Ulster Council who continue to queue up to have their photo taken as if it's some sort of success story. Pull the plug and build an Athletics Ground stadium that will have a good atmosphere.

That's the kind of forward thinking we need right there!  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 21, 2024, 05:53:14 PM
I can't believe the lads in the photo op are the lads who messed up during the Casement fiasco....and they're still there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2024, 05:56:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 02:29:45 PMBrolly called Clones the Bangladesh of Ulster.
[/qu
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 02:29:45 PMBrolly called Clones the Bangladesh of Ulster.

Clones ran the Ulster final no matter how bad things got in the north. It always happened even during the worst years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2024, 06:21:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2024, 05:56:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 02:29:45 PMBrolly called Clones the Bangladesh of Ulster.
[/qu
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 21, 2024, 02:29:45 PMBrolly called Clones the Bangladesh of Ulster.

Clones ran the Ulster final no matter how bad things got in the north. It always happened even during the worst years.


That's great information. I'm so glad I got the chance to read that!

Holy f**k!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 21, 2024, 06:24:53 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 05:39:06 PMI think it's time to step back and re-calibrate. There has been negativity around casement from the start, and my own views have changed over the years.
I think any criticism of the ulster council has to be tempered by the fact that they were breaking new ground on a mammoth project and experience and knowledge were thin on the ground .the lack of consideration of residents was a big weakness , and unfortunately has given the whole project a bad rep.
However there is no doubt that an anti-GAA agenda has been pro-actively negative from the start. This anti-GAA element, incredibly, is not just from unionists.

Genuine concerns must be addressed but there are overwhelming positives to this project:
For everybody including Stormont government : economic spin-off and feel good factor for Belfast with big games, events , and impressive aesthetics .
For GAA: second best stadium in second biggest city. Worldwide recognition , income generation
For Antrim: a state of the art venue for their games and their promotion of the gAA

The GAA have secured 50k from Southern government , and will perhaps increase its own contribution via internal and external funding to make it happen .

The precedent has been set by its ambition in re-building Croke Park 30 years ago, benefitting the GAA and everybody else in terms of economic /tax benefits .


The British government and stormont will have to stump up a significant sum but they'll get it back in droves in terms of economic and social benefit.
The initial planned outlay must be significantly increased due to inflation and cost of labour and materials , alone .

Those of an "Irish" background should be careful not to support vexatious concerns from anti-gaa , anti-Irish sources .

Casement must happen because:
1. Genuine Concerns can be addressed.
2. Antrim GAA people deserve it
3. Ulster GAA people deserve it
4. West belfast deserves it
5. Belfast and the neglected 9 counties of Ulster deserve it.
6. The Euros has presented an opportunity
7. Shared future by benefitting all
8.  Not allowing further DUP bullying and lack of generosity to hold us back





Hear hear.
Well summed up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2024, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 05:39:06 PMI think it's time to step back and re-calibrate. There has been negativity around casement from the start, and my own views have changed over the years.
I think any criticism of the ulster council has to be tempered by the fact that they were breaking new ground on a mammoth project and experience and knowledge were thin on the ground .the lack of consideration of residents was a big weakness , and unfortunately has given the whole project a bad rep.
However there is no doubt that an anti-GAA agenda has been pro-actively negative from the start. This anti-GAA element, incredibly, is not just from unionists.

Genuine concerns must be addressed but there are overwhelming positives to this project:
For everybody including Stormont government : economic spin-off and feel good factor for Belfast with big games, events , and impressive aesthetics .
For GAA: second best stadium in second biggest city. Worldwide recognition , income generation
For Antrim: a state of the art venue for their games and their promotion of the gAA

The GAA have secured 50k from Southern government , and will perhaps increase its own contribution via internal and external funding to make it happen .

The precedent has been set by its ambition in re-building Croke Park 30 years ago, benefitting the GAA and everybody else in terms of economic /tax benefits .


The British government and stormont will have to stump up a significant sum but they'll get it back in droves in terms of economic and social benefit.
The initial planned outlay must be significantly increased due to inflation and cost of labour and materials , alone .

Those of an "Irish" background should be careful not to support vexatious concerns from anti-gaa , anti-Irish sources .

Casement must happen because:
1. Genuine Concerns can be addressed.
2. Antrim GAA people deserve it
3. Ulster GAA people deserve it
4. West belfast deserves it
5. Belfast and the neglected 9 counties of Ulster deserve it.
6. The Euros has presented an opportunity
7. Shared future by benefitting all
8.  Not allowing further DUP bullying and lack of generosity to hold us back



If only they had someone in the north who had experience of this......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 07:38:22 PM
Here's a question, what economic spin off has there been from Windsor Park?  People drive in, watch a match, and go again. And how many concerts has it hosted?  It's a good stadium, but I don't see any regeneration as a result.
And as we all know Pairc ui Caoimh can't make the numbers work.

People are talking big about Casement revitalising the local economy, but where is the hard evidence, and I'm not talking press releases.

They had an amateur plan at the beginning, have let the cost spin wildly out of control, and Antrim were literally robbed in the process. It's nothing but an ego trip at this stage.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 21, 2024, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 21, 2024, 07:38:22 PMHere's a question, what economic spin off has there been from Windsor Park?  People drive in, watch a match, and go again. And how many concerts has it hosted?  It's a good stadium, but I don't see any regeneration as a result.
And as we all know Pairc ui Caoimh can't make the numbers work.

People are talking big about Casement revitalising the local economy, but where is the hard evidence, and I'm not talking press releases.

They had an amateur plan at the beginning, have let the cost spin wildly out of control, and Antrim were literally robbed in the process. It's nothing but an ego trip at this stage.
Windsor prob isn't big enough to bother with concerts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 21, 2024, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 05:39:06 PMCasement must happen because:
1. Genuine Concerns can be addressed.
2. Antrim GAA people deserve it
3. Ulster GAA people deserve it
4. West belfast deserves it
5. Belfast and the neglected 9 counties of Ulster deserve it.
6. The Euros has presented an opportunity
7. Shared future by benefitting all
8.  Not allowing further DUP bullying and lack of generosity to hold us back



Is this not just guff?

For example, you say that Antrim and west Belfast deserve it. Why?

And when you say "deserve it", do you mean having their county ground  removed from them with zero reward?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on February 21, 2024, 09:27:42 PM
There's something special about going to an Ulster Final in Clones!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2024, 09:34:40 PM
Is there still VAT on sports tickets in the 6 North Eastern Counties?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 21, 2024, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on February 21, 2024, 09:27:42 PMThere's something special about going to an Ulster Final in Clones!

I agree, but its still a pain in the hole, metaphorically and Literally.
Maybe its the masochist in me.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2024, 09:54:57 PM

Quote from: Sandy Hill on February 21, 2024, 09:27:42 PMThere's something special about going to an Ulster Final in Clones!

(https://i.ibb.co/hVLc5gd/clones.jpg)


Quote from: Derryman forever on February 21, 2024, 09:36:42 PMI agree, but its still a pain in the hole, metaphorically and Literally.
Maybe its the masochist in me.

No, if you were a masochist you'd enjoy a pain in the hole.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 21, 2024, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on February 21, 2024, 09:27:42 PMThere's something special about going to an Ulster Final in Clones!
no matter how big a kip it is theres nothing like the buzz of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 21, 2024, 10:05:36 PM
Tickets will be as dear as All-Ireland Semis
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bennydorano on February 21, 2024, 10:09:57 PM
Never liked Casement, couldn't care less if it falls through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 21, 2024, 10:29:05 PM
I've never had a bad experience in Clones and it's still a place of magical memories for me. Especially the blade from Killyleagh in '94.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: An Watcher on February 21, 2024, 10:40:22 PM
100% agree with these sentiments.  I hope casement is built but it'll be nowhere near as good as a day at clones.  The craic in the town, the walk up the hill, the bars, fantastic.  As a Tyrone fan maybe I won't experience another ulster final there.  Maybe next year we'll get favourable draws like armagh have got recently
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 21, 2024, 10:51:39 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on February 21, 2024, 10:40:22 PM100% agree with these sentiments.  I hope casement is built but it'll be nowhere near as good as a day at clones.  The craic in the town, the walk up the hill, the bars, fantastic.  As a Tyrone fan maybe I won't experience another ulster final there.  Maybe next year we'll get favourable draws like armagh have got recently
Jarlath doing us a turn, it's not what ye know it's who ye know ;) just need him to get rid of them penalty shoot outs lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 11:34:10 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 21, 2024, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 05:39:06 PMCasement must happen because:
1. Genuine Concerns can be addressed.
2. Antrim GAA people deserve it
3. Ulster GAA people deserve it
4. West belfast deserves it
5. Belfast and the neglected 9 counties of Ulster deserve it.
6. The Euros has presented an opportunity
7. Shared future by benefitting all
8.  Not allowing further DUP bullying and lack of generosity to hold us back



Is this not just guff?

For example, you say that Antrim and west Belfast deserve it. Why?

And when you say "deserve it", do you mean having their county ground  removed from them with zero reward?

Yes that's exactly what I mean about Antrim. They had a brilliant stadium and were going to get it replaced  by a better one and they've been waiting over 10 years because of delays for various reasons(some genuine, some vexatious).
West belfast deserves it because they suffered loss of life , loss of opportunities and loss of finances throughout the troubles and since. It'll be great to see them get a well overdue boost in terms of jobs, opportunities, finances and self esteem . The most modern stadium in Europe is on the Andytown road.
So no, it's not guff , it's about ambition, reward and a new beginning after horrendous times . Bring it on!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ball Hopper on February 22, 2024, 04:57:46 AM
Will headquarters fix quarter-finals outside of Croke Park, with Belfast and Cork getting one each every year?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2024, 07:38:08 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 22, 2024, 01:46:08 AMTo assuage Unionist concerns, should there be a mention of the two Corporals?

Were they actually killed in Casement? I know they were dragged in but I assumed they were killed on the waste ground at the front of the PD, not sure tbh
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 08:10:18 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 21, 2024, 07:04:27 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 21, 2024, 05:39:06 PMI think it's time to step back and re-calibrate. There has been negativity around casement from the start, and my own views have changed over the years.
I think any criticism of the ulster council has to be tempered by the fact that they were breaking new ground on a mammoth project and experience and knowledge were thin on the ground .the lack of consideration of residents was a big weakness , and unfortunately has given the whole project a bad rep.
However there is no doubt that an anti-GAA agenda has been pro-actively negative from the start. This anti-GAA element, incredibly, is not just from unionists.

Genuine concerns must be addressed but there are overwhelming positives to this project:
For everybody including Stormont government : economic spin-off and feel good factor for Belfast with big games, events , and impressive aesthetics .
For GAA: second best stadium in second biggest city. Worldwide recognition , income generation
For Antrim: a state of the art venue for their games and their promotion of the gAA

The GAA have secured 50k from Southern government , and will perhaps increase its own contribution via internal and external funding to make it happen .

The precedent has been set by its ambition in re-building Croke Park 30 years ago, benefitting the GAA and everybody else in terms of economic /tax benefits .


The British government and stormont will have to stump up a significant sum but they'll get it back in droves in terms of economic and social benefit.
The initial planned outlay must be significantly increased due to inflation and cost of labour and materials , alone .

Those of an "Irish" background should be careful not to support vexatious concerns from anti-gaa , anti-Irish sources .

Casement must happen because:
1. Genuine Concerns can be addressed.
2. Antrim GAA people deserve it
3. Ulster GAA people deserve it
4. West belfast deserves it
5. Belfast and the neglected 9 counties of Ulster deserve it.
6. The Euros has presented an opportunity
7. Shared future by benefitting all
8.  Not allowing further DUP bullying and lack of generosity to hold us back



If only they had someone in the north who had experience of this......

They did and he was involved at the initial phases and it was well documented here in relation to the row with the then Antrim chairman and the Casement social club.

The problems arose when certain politicians tried to railroad the safety committee in relation to how quickly the original stadium could be emptied in event of an incident. Thankfully the lad in question wasn't so easily brow beaten and a redesign was required.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on February 22, 2024, 08:48:55 AM

White Elephant. Cost is ridiculous
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 22, 2024, 09:06:09 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on February 22, 2024, 04:57:46 AMWill headquarters fix quarter-finals outside of Croke Park, with Belfast and Cork getting one each every year?


No.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2024, 09:11:33 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on February 22, 2024, 04:57:46 AMWill headquarters fix quarter-finals outside of Croke Park, with Belfast and Cork getting one each every year?


Hopefully.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on February 22, 2024, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 22, 2024, 08:48:55 AMWhite Elephant. Cost is ridiculous

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 22, 2024, 09:40:45 AM
They could certainly move the league finals if geography required.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on February 22, 2024, 09:55:40 AM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on February 22, 2024, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 22, 2024, 08:48:55 AMWhite Elephant. Cost is ridiculous

+1

+2 Absolute waste of money. Should be spread between the other County Grounds with Antrim getting the bulk. No need for a white elephant. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 10:16:42 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on February 22, 2024, 09:55:40 AM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on February 22, 2024, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 22, 2024, 08:48:55 AMWhite Elephant. Cost is ridiculous

+1
+2 Absolute waste of money. Should be spread between the other County Grounds with Antrim getting the bulk. No need for a white elephant. 
You are all fairly missing the point in it. Antrim need it, Ulster GAA also need it. And not to mention it is needed for Euros, and likes of Ulster Rugby said they will use it too for their bigger games. It's going to be built. It's not a white elephant that way. Costs are an issue due to UEFA grade stadium needed which added on a lot. It needs built in some form, and this is the form that UK govt need for the Euros, otherwise the North loses out. It'll happen and now that Irish government have added in, UK will save face and do so too
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 22, 2024, 10:38:22 AM
As much as I want a top of the range stadia, the cost will be hard to justify. No lessons learned from the building of Cork stadium, Where the concerts,Munster final etc which were supposed to be played there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 10:45:09 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 22, 2024, 10:38:22 AMAs much as I want a top of the range stadia, the cost will be hard to justify. No lessons learned from the building of Cork stadium, Where the concerts,Munster final etc which were supposed to be played there.
is this not very different to Cork, in that there are Euros, and main events like Ulster semis and finals each year. Cork doesn't have that, never did. The North doesn't have any ground this size, and it is needed and will be used. Unlike PUC
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AM
It's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AM
Why are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 11:10:08 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 22, 2024, 10:38:22 AMAs much as I want a top of the range stadia, the cost will be hard to justify. No lessons learned from the building of Cork stadium, Where the concerts,Munster final etc which were supposed to be played there.

Clare would have rather played Limerick in Limerick than having to drive passed it to go to Cork last year...

I think there's still more afoot on this one yet, there's no way Varadkar gave those financial commitments to Casement and indeed the A5 if he hadn't already had discussions with the UK Gov on meeting their side of the deal to ensure both went ahead unless he's calling their bluff, but I think we'd have heard more from CHH and Co if that was the case.

Whether you can trust this current crowd is up for debate as they've only a few months left in the job at best.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Pub Bore on February 22, 2024, 11:17:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2024, 07:38:08 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 22, 2024, 01:46:08 AMTo assuage Unionist concerns, should there be a mention of the two Corporals?

Were they actually killed in Casement? I know they were dragged in but I assumed they were killed on the waste ground at the front of the PD, not sure tbh

You're right MR2.  Bit of a myth that they were killed in Casement.  They were taken to Casement after "capture" at the funeral.  They were stripped and searched there but were taken to that wee lane opposite the Aggies club behind the PD where they were shot. The famous photo of Fr Reid giving the last rites was taken there, not in Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 


No idea. it's a mad one. It'll be paid for by government and will pay itself back. So not sure those up in arms on this
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
Is there never going to be another ground built in Ulster? Is it best to have 9 10k-15k Athletic Ground type stadiums? Hold the Ulster Finals in Croke Park? If there is a stadium to be built then it is best to build in the Islands second biggest city. If people don't want it then pour the money into doing up Croke Park as it needs a face lift. But whatever happens Clones has to be forgotten about as a big venue. It is a shit hole and in the back of beyond.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match

When Casement was open it was used all the time for Antrim club games with a few 100 people there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 22, 2024, 11:25:08 AM
To host an event like the Euros, governments have to invest. London spent £14 billion in the Olympics. If each game brought about 30,000 visitors to Belfast area (going with assumption North haven't a hope in hell of qualifying) , and each spent £500 (which is conservative) that's £75 million into the local economy. With concerts, American football one offs like Aviva, Ulster finals, it will well pay for itself.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 


No idea. it's a mad one. It'll be paid for by government and will pay itself back. So not sure those up in arms on this

I just don't get it. I really don't. This is money solely for this project promised by multiple executives at Stormont and multiple Tory governments. Casement or nothing. Where do you play big GAA games if it isn't built then?
Casement will also benefit from a new stadium bounce as people go to see it and see their county play in it and what is more it will more suitable for young families who cannot attend Clones because it isn't covered and hasn't got modern facilities for families with young children.

It's an absolute no brainer and if we have to get into bed with Uefa for 2 months to get it built so be it. The stadium will there for the next 30 years+. Modern, comfortable stadium that future proofs our facilities for big games going forward. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match

When Casement was open it was used all the time for Antrim club games with a few 100 people there.
It was a few volunteers from Antrim GAA who had the keys opening up for you.  You'll be going cap in hand now to the Ulster Council every time and they'll be telling you it costs X, Y and Z to open up. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2024, 11:35:54 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match

When Casement was open it was used all the time for Antrim club games with a few 100 people there.

Our pitch was being done up must have been 91 and we played all our club games in football there, made my senior club football debut there maybe 30 in attendance ;D . Not sure why our hurlers didn't, could have been we were div 2 at the time
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 22, 2024, 11:40:05 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match

When Casement was open it was used all the time for Antrim club games with a few 100 people there.
It was a few volunteers from Antrim GAA who had the keys opening up for you.  You'll be going cap in hand now to the Ulster Council every time and they'll be telling you it costs X, Y and Z to open up. Mark my words.

Yeah will be a different ball game now and they will probably make a song and dance about letting "grassroots" games in as part of a PR drive at the start.

Realism and the bottom line will soon be apparent & it won't last
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:43:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 


No idea. it's a mad one. It'll be paid for by government and will pay itself back. So not sure those up in arms on this

I just don't get it. I really don't. This is money solely for this project promised by multiple executives at Stormont and multiple Tory governments. Casement or nothing. Where do you play big GAA games if it isn't built then?
Casement will also benefit from a new stadium bounce as people go to see it and see their county play in it and what is more it will more suitable for young families who cannot attend Clones because it isn't covered and hasn't got modern facilities for families with young children.

It's an absolute no brainer and if we have to get into bed with Uefa for 2 months to get it built so be it. The stadium will there for the next 30 years+. Modern, comfortable stadium that future proofs our facilities for big games going forward. 
Exactly like. They need it for the Euros, get it built, then you've a lovely stadium for years to come after. I literally do not get the complaining
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match

When Casement was open it was used all the time for Antrim club games with a few 100 people there.
I played the old Casement too. U14 feile final, and U16 county game. I still remember it and can say I played it. I can't see it not being used, and this stuff drives kids to love the game and such.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 22, 2024, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match
The point being that Casement is no longer Antrim's county ground.
Do Dublin play their county finals in Croke Park?
I mean, they could open one gate...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 22, 2024, 12:20:07 PM
The Ulster Council, when Casement not sold out, should be handing out hundreds of free tickets to clubs and schools etc. to encourage kids/parents and clubs etc. to boost the GAA. Good PR.

In fairness, they should be doing this anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 




Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 




Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.



What if the British Government throw another load of money at it?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GTP on February 22, 2024, 12:43:50 PM
Anything can be described as a waste of money or costing too much. If there is a failure to rebuild Casement Park it will show the North to be dysfunctional and incapable of delivering on major projects. The planning delays and safety issues that have cause the project to run this long reflect very badly on all the parties involved as it is.
At present the argument over funding seems to be verging into the sectarian sphere and or the normal pattern of this place, if they get something we want the same.
A new stadium for GAA matches and other activities will not do anyone any harm and should produce benefits across the region and island. Someone somewhere should have the gumption to get on with building it.

For comparison with other large-scale projects which may be considered a waste of money:
Dundonald International Ice Bowl.
Councillors agreed to invest £52 million in the popular leisure complex over the next three years.
Belfast Stories: As a new £100 million visitor destination located close to Belfast's Cathedral Quarter, will be a landmark signature experience in the heart of the city that speaks to the essence of Belfast and its people.
Strule shared campus is the biggest school building project to be planned in Northern Ireland. Beset by delays, the project's cost has soared to an anticipated £341m.

And even at a total cost of £225 million it would only be a one-off investment of £5 per adult across the UK. I don't think it will bankrupt anyone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 12:47:20 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 




Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.


Does anyone actually know how much it will cost?
Has anyone seen the business case that will cover the ongoing running costs?

It'll have to be top spec to meet the Euros standard.  So who maintains the catering facilities and hospitality suites every day of the week when the Euros are long gone?

Where are the commitments from American football organisers or concert promoters to use the stadium?

Has Antrim any commitment from Ulster Council that they can use the ground, and at what cost?

Who wouldn't want a shiny big stadium to sit in if someone else is paying for it.  But this is big stuff and I don't see any evidence that the people involved have the professionalism to make it work beyond the first few months that it opens. I wouldn't fancy sinking my money into it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 22, 2024, 12:48:19 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 




Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.



Why? What are the costs?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 12:48:37 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 11:18:59 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 11:02:36 AMIt's the spoofing that annoys me. A bunch of amateurs and their only hope now is that the UK Government throw the money at it to deliver the Euros, whatever it takes. That may save their skin in the end, but never forget it has been a complete fiasco.

And every chance it will be an underused white elephant. The euros will be gone in a blink, and then what?  Potentially one or two capacity games per year, and as far as concerts, there are plenty of established venues already so there'll be plenty of competition for the big artists to pick from - no guarantee at all of success there either. 

And where will an Antrim U16 final be played?  Will they really go to the cost of opening a 34k seat stadium for a club underage final?
Like who cares? The Euros will pay for it itself. Even if it will be a white elephant (which i don;t think it will), we often see tournaments build stadia and leave them in place for use. Why is this seen as a bad thing? It'll be paid for and got the money back in tax, and then will be used for otehr events

And yes? Hardly would think they'll open up every stand and have 100s of stewards. But absolutely. Isn't this the point, that finals even underage ones are played at the main county ground? Jeez, this is mad stuff you're getting annoyed at. It hardly costs millions to open a gate and one stand for a club match

When Casement was open it was used all the time for Antrim club games with a few 100 people there.
I played the old Casement too. U14 feile final, and U16 county game. I still remember it and can say I played it. I can't see it not being used, and this stuff drives kids to love the game and such.

My Da played for the over 40s and they trained on Casement regularly. Like many in here I am sure we all got to play and train many many times on Casement. It was open for use all the time for every level of team. I have no doubt that would change now but I don't think it will be locked for 1 or 2 county games a year. Croke Park is used all the time. Our Special Needs team were down at a tournament last year in Croke Park for example. This will also be a 33k stadium, not 85k. It's not as big and people are thinking it is.

But sure we will turn it down and use Clones for another 30 years. Sure there's something special about the place....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Pub Bore on February 22, 2024, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on February 22, 2024, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 

Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.

What if the British Government throw another load of money at it?


That's what is going to happen Jim.  The GAA might come up with another £5mill or so, but after the furore dies down the Brits will stump up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 22, 2024, 01:00:50 PM
We need a modern stadium irrespective of the costs. £200, £300m, £400m, £500m who really gives a f**k? Like a proper f**k? We're getting it and Stormont, the British Gov, and the GAA can pay for it.

End of.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 01:04:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 22, 2024, 12:20:07 PMThe Ulster Council, when Casement not sold out, should be handing out hundreds of free tickets to clubs and schools etc. to encourage kids/parents and clubs etc. to boost the GAA. Good PR.

In fairness, they should be doing this anyway.
I get the reasoning, but this doesn't work long term. Yes, do a game here or there with all U16s free. But if you just hand out free tickets for loads of people, you undermine those paying, and those who do pay won't as they'll want the handout instead
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 22, 2024, 01:08:02 PM
Watched Nolan last night. He is an awful bollix for stirring. The casement debate about costs was split up with a piece about how there is no funding for special needs schooling. As if to say you have to choose one or the other ffs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 01:22:13 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 22, 2024, 01:08:02 PMWatched Nolan last night. He is an awful bollix for stirring. The casement debate about costs was split up with a piece about how there is no funding for special needs schooling. As if to say you have to choose one or the other ffs

Did he not mention the £60M, rising to £80M for the Dundonald Ice Bowl?

Stop watching that shíte?

No nationalist "commentator" or politician should give that bollox the skin of their shíte.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on February 22, 2024, 01:42:31 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 22, 2024, 12:20:07 PMThe Ulster Council, when Casement not sold out, should be handing out hundreds of free tickets to clubs and schools etc. to encourage kids/parents and clubs etc. to boost the GAA. Good PR.

In fairness, they should be doing this anyway.

Same Ulster council that charges wains into the McKenna Cup games?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2024, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 01:00:50 PMWe need a modern stadium irrespective of the costs. £200, £300m, £400m, £500m who really gives a f**k? Like a proper f**k? We're getting it and Stormont, the British Gov, and the GAA can pay for it.

End of.

Yup.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2024, 01:57:24 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 01:04:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 22, 2024, 12:20:07 PMThe Ulster Council, when Casement not sold out, should be handing out hundreds of free tickets to clubs and schools etc. to encourage kids/parents and clubs etc. to boost the GAA. Good PR.

In fairness, they should be doing this anyway.
I get the reasoning, but this doesn't work long term. Yes, do a game here or there with all U16s free. But if you just hand out free tickets for loads of people, you undermine those paying, and those who do pay won't as they'll want the handout instead
Doubt too many will begrudge a few school kids getting tickets.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 02:04:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2024, 01:57:24 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 22, 2024, 01:04:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 22, 2024, 12:20:07 PMThe Ulster Council, when Casement not sold out, should be handing out hundreds of free tickets to clubs and schools etc. to encourage kids/parents and clubs etc. to boost the GAA. Good PR.

In fairness, they should be doing this anyway.
I get the reasoning, but this doesn't work long term. Yes, do a game here or there with all U16s free. But if you just hand out free tickets for loads of people, you undermine those paying, and those who do pay won't as they'll want the handout instead
Doubt too many will begrudge a few school kids getting tickets.
Oh yeah absolutely. I just wouldn't be handing out tickets every time a game isn't fully sold out is all. Target certain games and all that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 22, 2024, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2024, 01:56:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 01:00:50 PMWe need a modern stadium irrespective of the costs. £200, £300m, £400m, £500m who really gives a f**k? Like a proper f**k? We're getting it and Stormont, the British Gov, and the GAA can pay for it.

End of.

Yup.

Yup X 2
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 05:31:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 01:00:50 PMWe need a modern stadium irrespective of the costs. £200, £300m, £400m, £500m who really gives a f**k? Like a proper f**k? We're getting it and Stormont, the British Gov, and the GAA can pay for it.

End of.

Haven't seen this attitude since the DUP SpAds filled their boots during RHI.  Amateur hour - let's just build it, there won't be any consequences for
me.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 06:01:40 PM
The RHI went up in smoke, this stadium might be there in 50 years, which will do me.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 06:01:40 PMThe RHI went up in smoke, this stadium might be there in 50 years, which will do me.
You don't think anyone is still being paid?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 22, 2024, 12:47:20 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 22, 2024, 11:09:36 AMWhy are people so animated about the cost? Genuine question. Do you believe that by not building it the money will somehow be spent on some other part of government that will deliver some top class service or something? What is it about the cost specifically that people care about? 


Casement would allow Belfast to attract bigger acts and bigger games. Windsor Park is a great bunch of lads but it is only 18k capacity. Ravenhill isn't great either. Ulster could play the Southern hemisphere teams in Casement.  Belfast needs the project.


Because the same thing that happened in Cork is going to happen except it's going to be across all of Ulster GAA as opposed to just one county when it comes to the paying of it. It's going to hoover up a huge percentage of the available money while being built and for a good while after, especially if it isn't able to make profit as a going concern. I think there is a serious risk of cutbacks and restrictions on spending across every absolutely every aspect of Ulster GAA for a good number of years.


Does anyone actually know how much it will cost?
Has anyone seen the business case that will cover the ongoing running costs?

It'll have to be top spec to meet the Euros standard.  So who maintains the catering facilities and hospitality suites every day of the week when the Euros are long gone?

Where are the commitments from American football organisers or concert promoters to use the stadium?

Has Antrim any commitment from Ulster Council that they can use the ground, and at what cost?

Who wouldn't want a shiny big stadium to sit in if someone else is paying for it.  But this is big stuff and I don't see any evidence that the people involved have the professionalism to make it work beyond the first few months that it opens. I wouldn't fancy sinking my money into it.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 11:48:29 PM
Pretty much the only thing I've seen about estimated cost of the stadium anywhere was the bit below from the Examiner.

QuoteSome projections claim the final cost of reconstruction of the Euro 2028 venue will be in excess of £225m. The GAA's first commitment of £15m was roughly 20% of the original £77.5m outlay, which was estimated last July to have jumped to £168m.

Based on that I'd say £168m was an absolute basement price - this was before the Euros were confirmed and that time pressure (plus the extras UEFA insist on which will cost a bit more) is only going to affect the price one way. Throw in the fact that Leo and co pitched up with €50million already make me think the cost will be over the £200 million mark. The key question is what sort of funding London is going to actually hand over.
My fear is that at the end of the day Ulster GAA are going to be the ones left carrying the can for any cost over-runs, especially if the stadium isn't done in time for the Euros. The nightmare scenario is that the stadium doesn't get finished in time for the Euros and London turns off the money tap and Ulster GAA are left with a stadium that will costs millions to finish that Ulster GAA don't have.   

In related news was talking to someone this evening and they were saying the Cork County Board chairperson was on radio this morning and part of the disussion was about ownership of Pairc Ui Chaoimh being taken over by the government and being turned into a multi-use stadium. Said the current ongoing debt situation just wasn't sustainable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on February 23, 2024, 04:16:12 AM
what big matches are going to be at casement apart from ulster finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 07:00:58 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 11:48:29 PMPretty much the only thing I've seen about estimated cost of the stadium anywhere was the bit below from the Examiner.

QuoteSome projections claim the final cost of reconstruction of the Euro 2028 venue will be in excess of £225m. The GAA's first commitment of £15m was roughly 20% of the original £77.5m outlay, which was estimated last July to have jumped to £168m.

Based on that I'd say £168m was an absolute basement price - this was before the Euros were confirmed and that time pressure (plus the extras UEFA insist on which will cost a bit more) is only going to affect the price one way. Throw in the fact that Leo and co pitched up with €50million already make me think the cost will be over the £200 million mark. The key question is what sort of funding London is going to actually hand over.
My fear is that at the end of the day Ulster GAA are going to be the ones left carrying the can for any cost over-runs, especially if the stadium isn't done in time for the Euros. The nightmare scenario is that the stadium doesn't get finished in time for the Euros and London turns off the money tap and Ulster GAA are left with a stadium that will costs millions to finish that Ulster GAA don't have.   

In related news was talking to someone this evening and they were saying the Cork County Board chairperson was on radio this morning and part of the disussion was about ownership of Pairc Ui Chaoimh being taken over by the government and being turned into a multi-use stadium. Said the current ongoing debt situation just wasn't sustainable.
If the Brits are ponying up it won't be an exclusively GAA stadium so soccer matches will probably be played it it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 23, 2024, 08:42:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 07:00:58 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 11:48:29 PMPretty much the only thing I've seen about estimated cost of the stadium anywhere was the bit below from the Examiner.

QuoteSome projections claim the final cost of reconstruction of the Euro 2028 venue will be in excess of £225m. The GAA's first commitment of £15m was roughly 20% of the original £77.5m outlay, which was estimated last July to have jumped to £168m.

Based on that I'd say £168m was an absolute basement price - this was before the Euros were confirmed and that time pressure (plus the extras UEFA insist on which will cost a bit more) is only going to affect the price one way. Throw in the fact that Leo and co pitched up with €50million already make me think the cost will be over the £200 million mark. The key question is what sort of funding London is going to actually hand over.
My fear is that at the end of the day Ulster GAA are going to be the ones left carrying the can for any cost over-runs, especially if the stadium isn't done in time for the Euros. The nightmare scenario is that the stadium doesn't get finished in time for the Euros and London turns off the money tap and Ulster GAA are left with a stadium that will costs millions to finish that Ulster GAA don't have.   

In related news was talking to someone this evening and they were saying the Cork County Board chairperson was on radio this morning and part of the disussion was about ownership of Pairc Ui Chaoimh being taken over by the government and being turned into a multi-use stadium. Said the current ongoing debt situation just wasn't sustainable.
If the Brits are ponying up it won't be an exclusively GAA stadium so soccer matches will probably be played it it.
Norn iron will only play there if they qualify for euros. Their fans don't want to go near casement. It might get a ROI match or 2. Ulster rugby might play a few games there also. IRFU COULD PLAY SOME OF THEIR novembee friendlies, It could get a europa league/ Conference finals. But very few soccer games will be there I'd say post the Euros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 23, 2024, 12:15:07 PM
 CAught a bit of big Nolan other night.  Some bigot on with him stirring the pot. Nolan wasn't  exactly innocent either continually asking stupid questions . Mainly how  is everyone going  to benefit from Casement?

The Euros  will likely bring  hundreds of millions  to the northern economy.  If Casement isn't built , those 5 or 6 matches will be moved somewhere else eg. Dublin, Manchester, Glasgow etc.   So the likes of Manchester will be  gifted hundreds of millions to  their  economy instead of Belfast.

It's amazing how some people can't see beyond  the bigotry and  see the bigger picture
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2024, 12:20:24 PM
Hardly "Hundreds of millions"
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 23, 2024, 12:31:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2024, 12:20:24 PMHardly "Hundreds of millions"

I got carried  away there.

Well, a  million billion at least   ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on February 23, 2024, 12:45:02 PM
is there a possibility boxing could be a casement park too if they get a big enough fight.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 12:50:48 PM
If the argument was solely an economic one and without government support, Casement Park wouldn't be redeveloped.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on February 23, 2024, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 23, 2024, 04:16:12 AMwhat big matches are going to be at casement apart from ulster finals.

All Antrim home games in all codes. They need a home.
Concerts are the obvious big money events.
The jobs generated by the build and also the running of it should boost the local economy.
Stadium tours maybe?
Ulster final - a welcome change from Clones.
It absolutely will get paid for - I still think Croke Park may include a little more. NI/UK government have to put up the rest.
Money was found for the Soccer and Rugby, it will need to be found for the GAA ultimately. The sport with arguably the largest fanbase in Ireland and with the greatest number of participants in any sport here should have a stadium to represent the importance of GAA in NI.
My only complaint is that it has taken so long and parking/transport is likely to be an issue. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2024, 01:30:25 PM
One argument everyone seems to miss is that Ulster Rugby is a professional organisation. IFA / Linfield professional organisations. The GAA is a volunteer charity organisation. Casement money should be a reflection of all the unpaid volunteer hours that thousands of people commit every year, year on year to communities and children across Ulster and NI.

This is a key difference to all the other comparisons that are made and of course an effective rebuttal to the assertion that my attitude is the same as some sectarian DUP SPADs and RHI.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rois on February 23, 2024, 01:46:25 PM
I was at the Saffron Business Forum event this morning - Paul McErlean asked Denis O'Brien for some of his Beacon Hospital proceeds for Casement.  He didn't say no  ;D   

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 23, 2024, 02:09:24 PM
I imagine Casement will have no problem attracting American football games. Yanks will have no trouble spinning that as some kind of post-conflict Belfast Bowl or the Good Friday Peace Agreement Showdown. Even with a smaller capacity, if these games generate 147 million for Dublin then they will be very lucrative for Belfast too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/08/25/american-football-dublin-welcomes-largest-number-of-americans-to-travel-abroad-for-sporting-event/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 02:26:26 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 23, 2024, 01:29:22 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 23, 2024, 04:16:12 AMwhat big matches are going to be at casement apart from ulster finals.

All Antrim home games in all codes. They need a home.
Concerts are the obvious big money events.
The jobs generated by the build and also the running of it should boost the local economy.
Stadium tours maybe?
Ulster final - a welcome change from Clones.
It absolutely will get paid for - I still think Croke Park may include a little more. NI/UK government have to put up the rest.
Money was found for the Soccer and Rugby, it will need to be found for the GAA ultimately. The sport with arguably the largest fanbase in Ireland and with the greatest number of participants in any sport here should have a stadium to represent the importance of GAA in NI.
My only complaint is that it has taken so long and parking/transport is likely to be an issue. 
It was found for GAA too. Lots of it.

The GAA were not promised a stadium. Nor were soccer or rugby. They were promised a certain amount of money to redevelop a stadium of their choice. That promise has not been reneged. The idea that soccer and rugby got and we didn't is nonsense.
Soccer and rugby used their allocated funds wisely and delivered a stadium for their games. The GAA didn't and any anger or sense of injustice on that fact needs to be directed solely at the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:32:16 PM
There were 3.5k in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last Saturday for Cork v Cavan and it looked absolutely awful. Would Antrim draw a bigger crowd for a league game in either either code? Corrigan Park is more than adequate. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:32:16 PMThere were 3.5k in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last Saturday for Cork v Cavan and it looked absolutely awful. Would Antrim draw a bigger crowd for a league game in either either code? Corrigan Park is more than adequate. 
Ah come on, no it's not. Casement might be too big for league games there, but Corrigan isn't enough. How would Antrim ever be able to grow with that?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:42:56 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:32:16 PMThere were 3.5k in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last Saturday for Cork v Cavan and it looked absolutely awful. Would Antrim draw a bigger crowd for a league game in either either code? Corrigan Park is more than adequate. 
Ah come on, no it's not. Casement might be too big for league games there, but Corrigan isn't enough. How would Antrim ever be able to grow with that?

I suppose it depends if Antrim get promotion to Division 2 and who they might play at home. I suppose I should say that Corrigan is probably be a bit small but a redeveloped Casement will be far too big. There would be zero atmosphere at it for league games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 02:45:42 PM
Very rare you get big crowds for antrim games. 3500 probably would be a big crowd. The biggest football crowds tend to be for other ulster teams as a load of ones from other counties live in Belfast. The hurling might attract a bit more but even at that 3500 still a stretch.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:46:17 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:42:56 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:32:16 PMThere were 3.5k in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last Saturday for Cork v Cavan and it looked absolutely awful. Would Antrim draw a bigger crowd for a league game in either either code? Corrigan Park is more than adequate. 
Ah come on, no it's not. Casement might be too big for league games there, but Corrigan isn't enough. How would Antrim ever be able to grow with that?

I suppose it depends if Antrim get promotion to Division 2 and who they might play at home. I suppose I should say that Corrigan is probably be a bit small but a redeveloped Casement will be far too big. There would be zero atmosphere at it for league games.

It's ok to have somewhere too big for certain games, as long as big enough for the games that matter. Croker is filled a handful of times a year, but no one would suggest it's not needed. Casement doesn't need to be filled every weekend. Antrim at least need somewhere to grow their game more than current limitations. And yes, 34k is likely too big, but that on UEFA standards. At least it will leave a legacy for future and other games will fill it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 02:45:42 PMVery rare you get big crowds for antrim games. 3500 probably would be a big crowd. The biggest football crowds tend to be for other ulster teams as a load of ones from other counties live in Belfast. The hurling might attract a bit more but even at that 3500 still a stretch.
So that can't be changed? Antrim is a county that can be tapped if tried. And part of that is having somewhere you can bring new fans, or returning ones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PM
I objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2024, 01:30:25 PMOne argument everyone seems to miss is that Ulster Rugby is a professional organisation. IFA / Linfield professional organisations. The GAA is a volunteer charity organisation. Casement money should be a reflection of all the unpaid volunteer hours that thousands of people commit every year, year on year to communities and children across Ulster and NI.

This is a key difference to all the other comparisons that are made and of course an effective rebuttal to the assertion that my attitude is the same as some sectarian DUP SPADs and RHI.
Soccer is working class on the island. It has less social capital than GAA and rugby. It is the poor relation
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2024, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PMI objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.



A new stadium has to be chance for Antrim to try and do a bit better. Mind you, I have no confidence in this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PMI objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.


And can never increase ever or try to grow the game there? That's a low bar you're holding there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:57:10 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PMI objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.


And can never increase ever or try to grow the game there? That's a low bar you're holding there

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PMI objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.



2 and 2 don't equal 5. Build a stadium in between the two sizes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 04:08:30 PM
I know so many Antrim Gaels who have absolutely no interest in the county teams and it's all about their own individual clubs. I'm not sure how the redeveloping of Casement Park will change this mindset. In Fermanagh we all like to see our own clubs do well but ultimately it's all about the county teams and being the best we can.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 04:13:08 PM
At fermanagh antrim last year I thought there were probably mroe fermanagh fans. (in corrigan).

A big stadium might produce some life who knows and tbf I think for antrim standards we are doing not too bad at the minute. Probably need some success on the field too.

Don't get me wrong I'd love a new big casement- I loved it growing up. The cost of it and the ownership of it have to be questioned. It isn't our stadium if it's built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2024, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2024, 01:30:25 PMOne argument everyone seems to miss is that Ulster Rugby is a professional organisation. IFA / Linfield professional organisations. The GAA is a volunteer charity organisation. Casement money should be a reflection of all the unpaid volunteer hours that thousands of people commit every year, year on year to communities and children across Ulster and NI.

This is a key difference to all the other comparisons that are made and of course an effective rebuttal to the assertion that my attitude is the same as some sectarian DUP SPADs and RHI.
Soccer is working class on the island. It has less social capital than GAA and rugby. It is the poor relation

Why do you make me read such shit. Poor relation. f**k off. The sport is awash with millions of euros. Like McIlroy says Get f**king better.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 04:17:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 04:13:08 PMAt fermanagh antrim last year I thought there were probably mroe fermanagh fans. (in corrigan).

A big stadium might produce some life who knows and tbf I think for antrim standards we are doing not too bad at the minute. Probably need some success on the field too.

Don't get me wrong I'd love a new big casement- I loved it growing up. The cost of it and the ownership of it have to be questioned. It isn't our stadium if it's built.

All the Fermanagh people, like me, who have been exiled to greater Belfast!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 05:07:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:57:10 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 03:46:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PMI objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.


And can never increase ever or try to grow the game there? That's a low bar you're holding there

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 03:05:56 PMI objectively stated that those are the crowds we get.



2 and 2 don't equal 5. Build a stadium in between the two sizes.
But then it can't hold Euro games
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on February 23, 2024, 06:15:44 PM
I think the GAA need to think of the long game. The minimum for euros is 30000 seating capacity. GAA could add in 4000 standing to accommodate that standing criteria fir our own games.
I hope the design involves stands steep and as close as safely possible to the pitch , to optimise atmosphere. I think the first tier should be compact and accommodate corporate and standing to optimise atmosphere when crowds smaller . Most matches in casement will be less than 5000 supporters so that should be concentrated , as sparse crowds in big stadia ie Croke park or Páirc UI chaoimh lack atmosphere and are bad PR.
34000 will be expected for ulster final and all ireland quarters and semi, For occasional rugby and soccer games. There would be several concert opportunities not only as belfast is Ireland's second biggest city with nearly 2 million population within just over an hour, and it's already the  second most popular concert venue on the island. Add in the proximity to rail and motorway it'll be a perfect conference venue , with entrepreneurs already looking at new hotel opportunities and already casement is well served by the city centre-andytown public transport route .
Euros has presented an extra incentive and  finance.
The nonsense about NHS needing it more doesn't stand up. Apart from the direct tax revenue, the boost to the economy and self esteem of west belfast will easily claw back the initial government payments .
We already have a precedent here, The tax revenue and economic boost from Croke park has paid ROI government back in droves.

If the DUP and TuV are against it that should tell u all you need to know . They fear what it could do for the community

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 23, 2024, 06:17:39 PM
On Wednesday, Stephen Nolan had three people on his television show discussing Casement Park. None of the three were in any way associated GAA. Indeed, one of the three was from the TUV (not Jim Alister) and had to keep reading his notes before talking.

On Thursday evening Mark Carruthers also discussed Casement Park and had commentators including one actual gaelic football journalist.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 23, 2024, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 02:45:42 PMVery rare you get big crowds for antrim games. 3500 probably would be a big crowd. The biggest football crowds tend to be for other ulster teams as a load of ones from other counties live in Belfast. The hurling might attract a bit more but even at that 3500 still a stretch.
So that can't be changed? Antrim is a county that can be tapped if tried. And part of that is having somewhere you can bring new fans, or returning ones.
Unfortunately the sad reality is that Antrim lost its home and the Ulster Council will be the key holder. 

Antrim is common currency as one of the big benefits, but before we buy that one, I'd love to see a written commitment on Antrim GAA's access to the pitch. I'm assuming an Ulster Championship game every few seasons is a given, but is there any hard commitment for club games, or even national league?  Too many people assuming that's a given - be nice if the Ulster Council would confirm that. Maybe I've missed it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on February 23, 2024, 06:35:56 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 23, 2024, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 02:45:42 PMVery rare you get big crowds for antrim games. 3500 probably would be a big crowd. The biggest football crowds tend to be for other ulster teams as a load of ones from other counties live in Belfast. The hurling might attract a bit more but even at that 3500 still a stretch.
So that can't be changed? Antrim is a county that can be tapped if tried. And part of that is having somewhere you can bring new fans, or returning ones.
Unfortunately the sad reality is that Antrim lost its home and the Ulster Council will be the key holder. 

Antrim is common currency as one of the big benefits, but before we buy that one, I'd love to see a written commitment on Antrim GAA's access to the pitch. I'm assuming an Ulster Championship game every few seasons is a given, but is there any hard commitment for club games, or even national league?  Too many people assuming that's a given - be nice if the Ulster Council would confirm that. Maybe I've missed it.

You haven't
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 23, 2024, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 23, 2024, 06:17:39 PMOn Wednesday, Stephen Nolan had three people on his television show discussing Casement Park. None of the three were in any way associated GAA. Indeed, one of the three was from the TUV (not Jim Alister) and had to keep reading his notes before talking.

On Thursday evening Mark Carruthers also discussed Casement Park and had commentators including one actual gaelic football journalist.



Caruthers had a much higher quality discussion with even the former DUP minister Simon Hamilton spoke in favour. Nolan not happy until he is ramping up the sectarianism. BBC has a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 07:51:31 PM
Steve Aiken and Matthew O'Toole on Casement
 https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22358394/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2024, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:32:16 PMThere were 3.5k in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last Saturday for Cork v Cavan and it looked absolutely awful. Would Antrim draw a bigger crowd for a league game in either either code? Corrigan Park is more than adequate. 

Don't bother with sense in this thread.

Its full of lunatics that think the white elephant will somehow attract people in with absolutely no historical evidence to back that up.

The same lunatics think this money will magically fall from the money tree, and won't affect other government funded services elsewhere.

Somehow most of them think the GAA deserve to have their funding doubled or trebled from what it was, despite the farce that took us to where we are being wholly the fault of the Ulster Council and their appointees.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 23, 2024, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on February 23, 2024, 02:32:16 PMThere were 3.5k in Páirc Uí Chaoimh last Saturday for Cork v Cavan and it looked absolutely awful. Would Antrim draw a bigger crowd for a league game in either either code? Corrigan Park is more than adequate. 

Don't bother with sense in this thread.

Its full of lunatics that think the white elephant will somehow attract people in with absolutely no historical evidence to back that up.

The same lunatics think this money will magically fall from the money tree, and won't affect other government funded services elsewhere.

Somehow most of them think the GAA deserve to have their funding doubled or trebled from what it was, despite the farce that took us to where we are being wholly the fault of the Ulster Council and their appointees.
Alright then non lunatic. What's your grand plan? Corrigan Park forever?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 10:13:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 02:45:42 PMVery rare you get big crowds for antrim games. 3500 probably would be a big crowd. The biggest football crowds tend to be for other ulster teams as a load of ones from other counties live in Belfast. The hurling might attract a bit more but even at that 3500 still a stretch.
So that can't be changed? Antrim is a county that can be tapped if tried. And part of that is having somewhere you can bring new fans, or returning ones.
I like the thinking. With the grace of God Antrim will require a stadium of this size and this will look like superb forward planning.
Alternatively, though, the number crunching on this stadium as a sports venue is hanging its hat on two things. Euro 2028 and Ulster finals.

Will either exist in 2029?

I'm happy for you to point at one (unlikely) future scenario but you also have to seriously consider the future of the events that we are building this for.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 10:19:11 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 10:13:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2024, 02:45:42 PMVery rare you get big crowds for antrim games. 3500 probably would be a big crowd. The biggest football crowds tend to be for other ulster teams as a load of ones from other counties live in Belfast. The hurling might attract a bit more but even at that 3500 still a stretch.
So that can't be changed? Antrim is a county that can be tapped if tried. And part of that is having somewhere you can bring new fans, or returning ones.
I like the thinking. With the grace of God Antrim will require a stadium of this size and this will look like superb forward planning.
Alternatively, though, the number crunching on this stadium as a sports venue is hanging its hat on two things. Euro 2028 and Ulster finals.

Will either exist in 2029?

I'm happy for you to point at one (unlikely) future scenario but you also have to seriously consider the future of the events that we are building this for.
Casement is going to have to pay its way. It will not be reliant on Antrim club games and Ulster finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 10:26:50 PM
If the GAA are using this funding to build a venue primarily for concerts or indeed with any non-GAA events at the heart of it, then they are letting us members down.

FWIW, Euro 2028 sticks in my craw and entirely undermines the narrative that building this stadium will massively influence GAA in the local community and across Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 6th sam on February 23, 2024, 11:21:15 PM
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Of course Antrim Intercounty games  should be played there and club games. Who says they won't be ?
If running concerts and other sports helps finance a state of the art stadium, so that GAA flourishes then I'm all for it.
Croke park has hosted rugby soccer concerts conferences events , and it has promoted the GAA and brought money into our coffers . What's not to like??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 23, 2024, 11:49:14 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on February 23, 2024, 11:21:15 PMThe two are not mutually exclusive.
Of course Antrim Intercounty games  should be played there and club games. Who says they won't be ?
If running concerts and other sports helps finance a state of the art stadium, so that GAA flourishes then I'm all for it.
Croke park has hosted rugby soccer concerts conferences events , and it has promoted the GAA and brought money into our coffers . What's not to like??
Who says they will be?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2024, 05:15:08 AM
Surely to god the second biggest city in the country will have some use for a 35k stadium. Madness that people are against this. Ulster finals, all ireland quarter finals, the neutral round of these all ireland group stage games if they last. With antrims population- Antrim home games if they ever got the finger out and got to the top level in hurling/football.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 07:22:42 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 10:26:50 PMIf the GAA are using this funding to build a venue primarily for concerts or indeed with any non-GAA events at the heart of it, then they are letting us members down.

FWIW, Euro 2028 sticks in my craw and entirely undermines the narrative that building this stadium will massively influence GAA in the local community and across Antrim.
No GAA stadium that costs over £100m is exclusively GAA. Sin é.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 24, 2024, 07:23:26 AM
Not sure if Antrim will ever have that correct will and culture in place within the county board to drive things on to the next level in my opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bannside on February 24, 2024, 07:48:40 AM
Quite Frankly, that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a very long time. It's a lazy narrative going back to previous administrations, but since a group of visionaries (under the banner of Saffron Vision) got together around 7 years ago, tangible improvement is clear to see, and ambition levels are firmly intact.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 24, 2024, 07:50:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 07:22:42 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 10:26:50 PMIf the GAA are using this funding to build a venue primarily for concerts or indeed with any non-GAA events at the heart of it, then they are letting us members down.

FWIW, Euro 2028 sticks in my craw and entirely undermines the narrative that building this stadium will massively influence GAA in the local community and across Antrim.
No GAA stadium that costs over £100m is exclusively GAA. Sin é.
You are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I am saying.
I believe that GAA members deserve the balance to be hugely in favour of our games and events but I'm concerned that this is looking like a non-GAA stadium to enable us to host an Ulster final for the limited time in which one exists.

So I'm not saying that there shouldn't be concerts or other sports in it. Just that they shouldn't be the reason for building it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 09:46:40 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 24, 2024, 07:50:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 07:22:42 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 23, 2024, 10:26:50 PMIf the GAA are using this funding to build a venue primarily for concerts or indeed with any non-GAA events at the heart of it, then they are letting us members down.

FWIW, Euro 2028 sticks in my craw and entirely undermines the narrative that building this stadium will massively influence GAA in the local community and across Antrim.
No GAA stadium that costs over £100m is exclusively GAA. Sin é.
You are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I am saying.
I believe that GAA members deserve the balance to be hugely in favour of our games and events but I'm concerned that this is looking like a non-GAA stadium to enable us to host an Ulster final for the limited time in which one exists.

So I'm not saying that there shouldn't be concerts or other sports in it. Just that they shouldn't be the reason for building it.
I don't imagine that Antrim GAA will be ignored. It will still be a GAA stadium. But it won't be a white elephant.

https://www.casementpark.ie/planning-application/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 10:49:07 AM
could they football/hurling double headers to get a bigger crowd.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2024, 11:38:19 AM
If the 2 Governments,(Stormont?) and the GAA put up the money to build the Stadium will they be looking for their money back?
If not then it won't cost a lot to maintain the place?
Casement "paying its way" would only be a major issue if there were loans to be repaid e.g.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2024, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 24, 2024, 11:38:19 AMIf the 2 Governments,(Stormont?) and the GAA put up the money to build the Stadium will they be looking for their money back?
If not then it won't cost a lot to maintain the place?
Casement "paying its way" would only be a major issue if there were loans to be repaid e.g.
What was the story with PUC then? All bank loans?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 24, 2024, 11:56:41 AM
Would Ulster GAA accept if it became a municipal stadium (for all sports/events) or is that a non runner? Profits dished out on a percentage basis?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2024, 12:07:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2024, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 24, 2024, 11:38:19 AMIf the 2 Governments,(Stormont?) and the GAA put up the money to build the Stadium will they be looking for their money back?
If not then it won't cost a lot to maintain the place?
Casement "paying its way" would only be a major issue if there were loans to be repaid e.g.
What was the story with PUC then? All bank loans?



A lot of it obviously was as Cork CB got loans restructured/Interest holiday last year - or was it 2022?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 12:35:59 PM
The Cork County Board has Frank Murphy but it doesn't have cash

Some history :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1irc_U%C3%AD_Chaoimh
"Finance
The Cork County Board were faced with a bill of £650,000 to cover the first stage of the development, which at the time was the biggest undertaken by any sports organisation in Ireland.[citation needed] In addition to grants from the GAA's Central and Munster Councils, finance for the project was raised by the sale of the Board's 45 acre property at Model Farm Road,[12] and a sizeable part of 49 acres on the north side of the city.[citation needed] The Board's offices on Cook Street were also sold, while further funds were raised through Coiste Gael and commercial and private subscriptions. Additional funds were raised through the sale of 88 advertising spaces within the stadium and the sale of 3,000 five-year stand tickets at £30 each.[citation needed]

Official opening

Páirc Uí Chaoimh prior to redevelopment pictured here at halftime between Cork vs Kerry 2012
Páirc Uí Chaoimh was officially opened on 6 June 1976.[15] by Con Murphy, then president of the GAA. On the opening day the Cork hurlers played Kilkenny while the Cork footballers took on Kerry.[9]

Concerts
The 1970s oil shocks increased interest rates and the Cork County Board was unable to repay the loan on stadium's building cost.[16] Local promoter Oliver Barry instigated the Siamsa Cois Laoi (Irish for 'Fun by the [River] Lee'), a weekend festival of country, folk, and Irish traditional music held annually in the stadium from 1977 to 1987.[17][18] Opposition from GAA traditionalists was overcome by the need for the organisation to clear mounting debts.[18][16] Each Siamsa programme featured international stars supported by Irish acts. Headliners included Glen Campbell (1979[19] and 1983[20]), Don McLean (1979[21] and 1984[22]), Joan Baez (1980),[23] Kate & Anna McGarrigle,[17] Leo Sayer (1984),[24] Loudon Wainwright III (1985),[25] Kris Kristofferson (1985),[26] John Denver (1986),[27] Status Quo,[17] and The Pogues (1987).[17] Support included acts managed by Barry like the Wolfe Tones, Stockton's Wing, and Bagatelle,[18] and others including the Dubliners and Christy Moore.[17]



The modern iteration. Same link

Demolition and construction works

East side of redeveloped Páirc Uí Chaoimh
In April 2014, Cork County Board and Cork City Council announced that they had been given the green light to proceed with the redevelopment project of the stadium.[57][58]

In May 2014, the Government sanctioned a €30 million grant to help fund the regeneration of the stadium.[59]
By December 2018, stadium commercial director Peter McKenna declared that the final cost of rebuilding Páirc Uí Chaoimh could be as high as €110m, which is €24m higher than the €86m quoted when works were completed in 2017"


So a lot of it was loans
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 24, 2024, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 24, 2024, 11:56:41 AMWould Ulster GAA accept if it became a municipal stadium (for all sports/events) or is that a non runner? Profits dished out on a percentage basis?

That was the proposal  for the   long Kesh site.  That option went when  each sporting organisation got  separate monies for their respective stadia
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 24, 2024, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 24, 2024, 11:56:41 AMWould Ulster GAA accept if it became a municipal stadium (for all sports/events) or is that a non runner? Profits dished out on a percentage basis?
That was the best option. And as it was for all 3, it'd have long been built as DUP/TUV wouldn't object etc. However it was turned down by others, Windsor and Ravenhill got their money and got their upgrades. That's what sticks in the craw here. they got theirs, but want to stop this further. Municipal stadium is no longer an option now. Casement is now the only option on the table
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 24, 2024, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 24, 2024, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 24, 2024, 11:56:41 AMWould Ulster GAA accept if it became a municipal stadium (for all sports/events) or is that a non runner? Profits dished out on a percentage basis?
That was the best option. And as it was for all 3, it'd have long been built as DUP/TUV wouldn't object etc. However it was turned down by others, Windsor and Ravenhill got their money and got their upgrades. That's what sticks in the craw here. they got theirs, but want to stop this further. Municipal stadium is no longer an option now. Casement is now the only option on the table

Aw I know that and in fairness to Ulster Rugby I think they were open to a municipal stadium. Those IFA cretins and their vermin support were the issue.

I mean regarding this build. If they didn't have full ownership as such. To get it over the line. Maybe similar to what's happening in Cork. Would that be palatable? All profits say from GAA but other events given to government etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 03:01:38 PM
i would like to see all 4 all ireland quarter finals played in 4 provinces would Connaught need a new stadium
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 03:01:38 PMi would like to see all 4 all ireland quarter finals played in 4 provinces would Connaught need a new stadium
This wouldn't work if there were no teams from Connnacht in the quarter final to be played in Connacht.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 24, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 03:01:38 PMi would like to see all 4 all ireland quarter finals played in 4 provinces would Connaught need a new stadium
This wouldn't work if there were no teams from Connnacht in the quarter final to be played in Connacht.

True.

Arm v Mon would  work for an Ulster venue last year.  But do  you take Ker v Tyr (or Cork v Der) to Galway/Castlebar? Logistically,  Dublin for both is more sensible  with  the road/train network.

Plus,  you either have ALL QF's at Croker or none. 

Plus, no county should get a provincial advantage either. So, it's not as simple  as it seems
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on February 24, 2024, 04:54:48 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 03:01:38 PMi would like to see all 4 all ireland quarter finals played in 4 provinces would Connaught need a new stadium
I'd imagine the players involved would much prefer to play in
Croke Park!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2024, 05:09:07 PM
Dont worry, HQ will be keeping the Football Quarter Finals.
No Ground rental, keeping the Corporates and Premiums happy, sale of drink, food etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 24, 2024, 06:08:20 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 24, 2024, 11:56:41 AMWould Ulster GAA accept if it became a municipal stadium (for all sports/events) or is that a non runner? Profits dished out on a percentage basis?

Frustrating to read these type of comments

Huge problem this. Public have very little understanding of knowledge of the situation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 24, 2024, 06:20:57 PM
Here, they had the chance 15yrs ago to go with a massive stadium for all at the maze. Belfast folk couldnt be bothered driving 8 mile out the road where as Country folk been driving everywhere for years.DUP too worried about a wee shrine in their head and not the sense to See the big picture.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2024, 07:14:28 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 24, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 03:01:38 PMi would like to see all 4 all ireland quarter finals played in 4 provinces would Connaught need a new stadium
This wouldn't work if there were no teams from Connnacht in the quarter final to be played in Connacht.

True.

Arm v Mon would  work for an Ulster venue last year.  But do  you take Ker v Tyr (or Cork v Der) to Galway/Castlebar? Logistically,  Dublin for both is more sensible  with  the road/train network.

Plus,  you either have ALL QF's at Croker or none. 

Plus, no county should get a provincial advantage either. So, it's not as simple  as it seems
Is provincial advantage that big a deal as long as distance is fairly even? If theres an all ulster qf and the way theres 5 teams in Ulster who'll quite possibly be in qf's draw dependent this year then its should be looked at when Casement is built.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 24, 2024, 07:40:23 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2024, 07:14:28 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 24, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2024, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 24, 2024, 03:01:38 PMi would like to see all 4 all ireland quarter finals played in 4 provinces would Connaught need a new stadium
This wouldn't work if there were no teams from Connnacht in the quarter final to be played in Connacht.

True.

Arm v Mon would  work for an Ulster venue last year.  But do  you take Ker v Tyr (or Cork v Der) to Galway/Castlebar? Logistically,  Dublin for both is more sensible  with  the road/train network.

Plus,  you either have ALL QF's at Croker or none. 

Plus, no county should get a provincial advantage either. So, it's not as simple  as it seems
Is provincial advantage that big a deal as long as distance is fairly even? If theres an all ulster qf and the way theres 5 teams in Ulster who'll quite possibly be in qf's draw dependent this year then its should be looked at when Casement is built.

Well , if you're going by fairness then  there shouldn't be provincial familiarity

Do you think Armagh and Monaghan would agree to play a QF in  Ulster  while the other 3 QFs are in Croke Park?  Surely they'd want  game time in Croke Park ,  even if it meant  further cost to fans?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2024, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 09:45:10 PMAlright then non lunatic. What's your grand plan? Corrigan Park forever?

Already said it many, many times on the thread. But for your benefit.

- Replace the old main stand with a new one, covered seating. All the facilities they could ever want could be placed underneath this as the new structure could be far more significantly hollowed out relative to old, and the back of it could be extended over the road to add further floor space. No big difference to light on houses to the West of Casement as the existing stand already blocks it.
- Stick a roof over the (renewed) terrace on the far side of the pitch. The back end of this structure can hold the badly needed amenities. It'd be relatively low profile though.
- Renew the terraces at both ends of the pitch. Don't cover them. If there is sufficient demand - as determined by polls, one of the ends could be uncovered seats.

Capacity of 30-40k for the one or two times a year it may be needed - which would be during the summer. Comfortably sufficient covered capacity for during the autumn/winter/spring. 3 or 4 significantly different price tiers.

Basically the stadium that the GAA needs at a cost that will benefit all in the long-run.

Instead we're getting an expensive to build, expensive to maintain milestone, which will come with astronomical ticket prices.


But hey - the Ulster Council might be able to hold a few concerts. That's what this is about right? Otherwise it makes no sense to build what they are trying to build.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 25, 2024, 02:22:33 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2024, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 09:45:10 PMAlright then non lunatic. What's your grand plan? Corrigan Park forever?

Already said it many, many times on the thread. But for your benefit.

- Replace the old main stand with a new one, covered seating. All the facilities they could ever want could be placed underneath this as the new structure could be far more significantly hollowed out relative to old, and the back of it could be extended over the road to add further floor space. No big difference to light on houses to the West of Casement as the existing stand already blocks it.
- Stick a roof over the (renewed) terrace on the far side of the pitch. The back end of this structure can hold the badly needed amenities. It'd be relatively low profile though.
- Renew the terraces at both ends of the pitch. Don't cover them. If there is sufficient demand - as determined by polls, one of the ends could be uncovered seats.

Capacity of 30-40k for the one or two times a year it may be needed - which would be during the summer. Comfortably sufficient covered capacity for during the autumn/winter/spring. 3 or 4 significantly different price tiers.

Basically the stadium that the GAA needs at a cost that will benefit all in the long-run.

Instead we're getting an expensive to build, expensive to maintain milestone, which will come with astronomical ticket prices.


But hey - the Ulster Council might be able to hold a few concerts. That's what this is about right? Otherwise it makes no sense to build what they are trying to build.
Great idea. Windsor all covered all seated, Ravenhill something similar. Casement as suggested above. Croppy lie down
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2024, 09:44:33 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on February 25, 2024, 02:22:33 AMGreat idea. Windsor all covered all seated, Ravenhill something similar. Casement as suggested above. Croppy lie down

Something similar to all-covered all-seated... except of course Ravenhill has 3 sides covered seats, 1 side partially-covered terrace and 3 sides uncovered terrace.  ???
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 25, 2024, 02:09:01 PM
Tell ye what. If it does get built after all this hullabaloo and lies empty all ready round? Suppose this puts serious pressure on those who own it to use it and not just for the Wolftones from the grave farewell tour 2035.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 25, 2024, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 25, 2024, 02:09:01 PMTell ye what. If it does get built after all this hullabaloo and lies empty all ready round? Suppose this puts serious pressure on those who own it to use it and not just for the Wolftones from the grave farewell tour 2035.
It will lie empty most of the year unless there is a roof on it. :D . If it werent for the euros something similar to PUC wouldve been sufficient.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 25, 2024, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 25, 2024, 02:09:01 PMTell ye what. If it does get built after all this hullabaloo and lies empty all ready round? Suppose this puts serious pressure on those who own it to use it and not just for the Wolftones from the grave farewell tour 2035.

You could always  put on a Wolfe Tones hologram tour. The lads could still make a  few quid while   Not fit to tour anymore
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 25, 2024, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2024, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 09:45:10 PMAlright then non lunatic. What's your grand plan? Corrigan Park forever?

Already said it many, many times on the thread. But for your benefit.

- Replace the old main stand with a new one, covered seating. All the facilities they could ever want could be placed underneath this as the new structure could be far more significantly hollowed out relative to old, and the back of it could be extended over the road to add further floor space. No big difference to light on houses to the West of Casement as the existing stand already blocks it.
- Stick a roof over the (renewed) terrace on the far side of the pitch. The back end of this structure can hold the badly needed amenities. It'd be relatively low profile though.
- Renew the terraces at both ends of the pitch. Don't cover them. If there is sufficient demand - as determined by polls, one of the ends could be uncovered seats.

Capacity of 30-40k for the one or two times a year it may be needed - which would be during the summer. Comfortably sufficient covered capacity for during the autumn/winter/spring. 3 or 4 significantly different price tiers.

Basically the stadium that the GAA needs at a cost that will benefit all in the long-run.

Instead we're getting an expensive to build, expensive to maintain milestone, which will come with astronomical ticket prices.


But hey - the Ulster Council might be able to hold a few concerts. That's what this is about right? Otherwise it makes no sense to build what they are trying to build.

You've no ambition. The GAA wasn't built on Debbie Downers like yourself
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2024, 05:57:15 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 25, 2024, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 25, 2024, 02:09:01 PMTell ye what. If it does get built after all this hullabaloo and lies empty all ready round? Suppose this puts serious pressure on those who own it to use it and not just for the Wolftones from the grave farewell tour 2035.
It will lie empty most of the year unless there is a roof on it. :D . If it werent for the euros something similar to PUC wouldve been sufficient.

It would be interesting to know if there is any inflatable roof technology that could provide a room, this would  game changer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JimStynes on February 26, 2024, 09:09:09 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2024, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 09:45:10 PMAlright then non lunatic. What's your grand plan? Corrigan Park forever?

Already said it many, many times on the thread. But for your benefit.

- Replace the old main stand with a new one, covered seating. All the facilities they could ever want could be placed underneath this as the new structure could be far more significantly hollowed out relative to old, and the back of it could be extended over the road to add further floor space. No big difference to light on houses to the West of Casement as the existing stand already blocks it.
- Stick a roof over the (renewed) terrace on the far side of the pitch. The back end of this structure can hold the badly needed amenities. It'd be relatively low profile though.
- Renew the terraces at both ends of the pitch. Don't cover them. If there is sufficient demand - as determined by polls, one of the ends could be uncovered seats.

Capacity of 30-40k for the one or two times a year it may be needed - which would be during the summer. Comfortably sufficient covered capacity for during the autumn/winter/spring. 3 or 4 significantly different price tiers.

Basically the stadium that the GAA needs at a cost that will benefit all in the long-run.

Instead we're getting an expensive to build, expensive to maintain milestone, which will come with astronomical ticket prices.


But hey - the Ulster Council might be able to hold a few concerts. That's what this is about right? Otherwise it makes no sense to build what they are trying to build.

Jesus christ. So throw an aul stand up and give her a powerhose and that'll do her for another 50 years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 26, 2024, 10:32:04 AM
Jarlath at 8:45am - I will recommend that the GAA don't increase their money offer for Casement.

Nolan at 9:10am - GAA refuse to increase their money for Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 10:49:00 AM
Quote from: Orior on February 26, 2024, 10:32:04 AMJarlath at 8:45am - I will recommend that the GAA don't increase their money offer for Casement.

No doubt he has other uses for the money, but the GAA played a big role in the delay for this project. I said above that they should prorate their contribution with inflation in order to pressure the NI authorities to do likewise.
The GAA need to get a stadium for Ulster out of this process. There is a danger that they will not, with the excessive cost, the sectarian minister, and fifth column in the GAA who just want a free stadium for a poorly supported Antrim.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 26, 2024, 10:50:27 AM
No one mentions very much how big a balls the ulster council have made of this. It has been an almighty mess of a project from day one and the end not in sight yet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on February 26, 2024, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 20, 2024, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 20, 2024, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2024, 01:16:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 20, 2024, 12:56:10 PMWell done Leo

It is pretty generous all things considered.
In the spirit of generosity I think the GAA should increase their contribution to reflect inflation since the original budget and put maximum pressure on the British.


That seems like the right thing to do.

Jarlath on the ball soon

Maybe not
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 11:30:11 AM
As Newton Emerson has said, London is committed to the stadium but negotiating the split of the bill.
Dublin paid up to leave everyone else to haggle over the balance. Stormont has their £63m on the table. The GAA, Ulster Council, Antrim GAA need to state their redline, and perhaps that is what Jarlath is doing, so that the remaining stakeholders (British Government, IFA, FA) know what they need to pay.
In an earlier post I stated that the GAA needs to come up to with a design to suit the current budget to show they have an alternative,  that the British Government, FA and IFA need casement more than we need the debt.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 11:30:11 AMAs Newton Emerson has said, London is committed to the stadium but negotiating the split of the bill.
Dublin paid up to leave everyone else to haggle over the balance. Stormont has their £63m on the table. The GAA, Ulster Council, Antrim GAA need to state their redline, and perhaps that is what Jarlath is doing, so that the remaining stakeholders (British Government, IFA, FA) know what they need to pay.
In an earlier post I stated that the GAA needs to come up to with a design to suit the current budget to show they have an alternative,  that the British Government, FA and IFA need casement more than we need the debt.

The problem with any redesign is that it would never be completed on time for the Euros and then why would London want to give anything?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 26, 2024, 11:41:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 11:30:11 AMAs Newton Emerson has said, London is committed to the stadium but negotiating the split of the bill.
Dublin paid up to leave everyone else to haggle over the balance. Stormont has their £63m on the table. The GAA, Ulster Council, Antrim GAA need to state their redline, and perhaps that is what Jarlath is doing, so that the remaining stakeholders (British Government, IFA, FA) know what they need to pay.
In an earlier post I stated that the GAA needs to come up to with a design to suit the current budget to show they have an alternative,  that the British Government, FA and IFA need casement more than we need the debt.

The problem with any redesign is that it would never be completed on time for the Euros and then why would London want to give anything?

Yeah redesign or a significant one anyway is out of the question. UEFA land this week I think. They'll want to see some progress and cast iron assurances or they'll demand a different stadium in a different location.
London need to pony up or it is just another example in a long list of broken promises and the people are really growing tired of successive British governments promising and not delivering.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 26, 2024, 11:46:12 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 26, 2024, 10:50:27 AMNo one mentions very much how big a balls the ulster council have made of this. It has been an almighty mess of a project from day one and the end not in sight yet.

There was a  touch of the Garth Brooks 5 nighter  with their original  stadium  plan

I think  the GAA thought , like Garth, that there would be no issues
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 24, 2024, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 23, 2024, 09:45:10 PMAlright then non lunatic. What's your grand plan? Corrigan Park forever?

Already said it many, many times on the thread. But for your benefit.

- Replace the old main stand with a new one, covered seating. All the facilities they could ever want could be placed underneath this as the new structure could be far more significantly hollowed out relative to old, and the back of it could be extended over the road to add further floor space. No big difference to light on houses to the West of Casement as the existing stand already blocks it.
- Stick a roof over the (renewed) terrace on the far side of the pitch. The back end of this structure can hold the badly needed amenities. It'd be relatively low profile though.
- Renew the terraces at both ends of the pitch. Don't cover them. If there is sufficient demand - as determined by polls, one of the ends could be uncovered seats.

Capacity of 30-40k for the one or two times a year it may be needed - which would be during the summer. Comfortably sufficient covered capacity for during the autumn/winter/spring. 3 or 4 significantly different price tiers.

Basically the stadium that the GAA needs at a cost that will benefit all in the long-run.

Instead we're getting an expensive to build, expensive to maintain milestone, which will come with astronomical ticket prices.


But hey - the Ulster Council might be able to hold a few concerts. That's what this is about right? Otherwise it makes no sense to build what they are trying to build.
Renew the terraces? Ah come on now. Where's the ambition here? A new stand and go back to old terraces? That's unreal talk. How long will that last before it looks outdated and falling apart again? Can you even renew terracing? Is it safe to do so with modern building control, safety and so on? Mad you're calling people lunatics, when your idea is a silliest and craziest of them all.

You also miss a couple of very vital points. The money is either there or soon will be and will leave a legacy of a stadium that essentially pays itself off. Something to be proud of, something Gaels in Antrim and Ulster and beyond can go to and enjoy. And it'll be modern, and will last for many decades, and not be outdated like your plan by the day it opens.

The Euros are going to happen. The UK government has committed to it. The ground has £60million odd already committed by the Executive, £15m from GAA, and near £40m from Irish Govt. The UK Govt know they need to stump up, but in a typical negotiation they're figuring out how to play it. Varadkar announcing funding last week has likely forced their hand and they'll have to save face. And they will as they know it'll pay itself back. Recent figures say a build cost of £220million. There's near £120million already there. So £100million give or take to find. And figures show the Euros will add £300million to the island through tax, business etc, so even if less than half of that goes to the North, your extra £100million is covered. We're essentially saying that the stadium will pay itself off immediately, and we'll be left with a modern stadium for use. But no, let's renew some terracing from the 50s instead, huh? Have some ambition will you...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2024, 12:27:34 PM
Renewing the terraces is exactly what happened at PUC and you have the ridiculous scenario were the stadium still cost an absolute fortune yet half of it looks straight out of the fifties. The GAA have notoriously overpaid for shoddy work, paid top dollar for new stands and got little return. I often use the example of the new stand at McHale and the new stand at Leicester tigers, both built at the same time for the same money, like wtf. I'll try and put some pics up later as I'm busy at work. At least this time it will need to be up to UEFA standards so the cowboys will have to up their game with the build.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on February 26, 2024, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2024, 12:27:34 PMRenewing the terraces is exactly what happened at PUC and you have the ridiculous scenario were the stadium still cost an absolute fortune yet half of it looks straight out of the fifties. The GAA have notoriously overpaid for shoddy work, paid top dollar for new stands and got little return. I often use the example of the new stand at McHale and the new stand at Leicester tigers, both built at the same time for the same money, like wtf. I'll try and put some pics up later as I'm busy at work. At least this time it will need to be up to UEFA standards so the cowboys will have to up their game with the build.

was thinking watching the highlights last night how on earth is PUC costing the amount of debt it is, when both ends of the stadium as you say look like they are still in the fifties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2024, 01:11:57 PM
(https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/15/71/05/f8/new-stands.jpg?w=600&h=500&s=1)


(https://imengine.public.prod.cmg.infomaker.io/?uuid=55eaa2f3-d5b6-5fe3-abbb-d82661d3690a&function=cropresize&type=preview&source=false&q=75&crop_w=0.99999&crop_h=0.97193&x=0&y=0&width=1200&height=675)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2024, 01:15:00 PM
If they not at heavy grounds work by September you may forget about it. Can't remember how a project with no correct costings, approved Business case, budget is not all on place before any tender process.Contractor cost only increase with a reduced lead in time.It got the Dungiven bypass delays wrote all over it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PM
Sensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 11:41:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 11:30:11 AMAs Newton Emerson has said, London is committed to the stadium but negotiating the split of the bill.
Dublin paid up to leave everyone else to haggle over the balance. Stormont has their £63m on the table. The GAA, Ulster Council, Antrim GAA need to state their redline, and perhaps that is what Jarlath is doing, so that the remaining stakeholders (British Government, IFA, FA) know what they need to pay.
In an earlier post I stated that the GAA needs to come up to with a design to suit the current budget to show they have an alternative,  that the British Government, FA and IFA need casement more than we need the debt.

The problem with any redesign is that it would never be completed on time for the Euros and then why would London want to give anything?

Yeah redesign or a significant one anyway is out of the question. UEFA land this week I think. They'll want to see some progress and cast iron assurances or they'll demand a different stadium in a different location.
London need to pony up or it is just another example in a long list of broken promises and the people are really growing tired of successive British governments promising and not delivering.

The redesign would be for a GAA stadium, not a UEFA pitch, our way of saying that you either stump up the cash now or we go an alternative direction. We don't need the Euros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2024, 02:12:48 PM
Them 2 stands above the same cost? The rubgy one seems well laid out and better done.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on February 26, 2024, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 26, 2024, 02:12:48 PMThem 2 stands above the same cost? The rubgy one seems well laid out and better done.

It's a joke in this day and age with engineering that they stuck structural poles in the middle of seating blocking the view. Was that a cheap shortcut by the contractors to pocket more money?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 26, 2024, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19
This lady is what the future of politics should be. Fair play to her.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 26, 2024, 03:09:13 PM
Terracing in this day and age should be very limited. When the Taylor report was implemented in England clubs reported a huge increase in families and obviously corporate is a huge element now as well. We should have a stadium that can offer this option in the North.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on February 26, 2024, 03:24:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 03:09:13 PMTerracing in this day and age should be very limited. When the Taylor report was implemented in England clubs reported a huge increase in families and obviously corporate is a huge element now as well. We should have a stadium that can offer this option in the North.

Corporate entertainment is a huge revenue stream that needs to be part of Casement park.

I think Cork missed out on this and only off a premium level ticket.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 26, 2024, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19
This lady is what the future of politics should be. Fair play to her.

Deleted, what did it say? Was she speaking too much common sense?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 11:41:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 26, 2024, 11:30:11 AMAs Newton Emerson has said, London is committed to the stadium but negotiating the split of the bill.
Dublin paid up to leave everyone else to haggle over the balance. Stormont has their £63m on the table. The GAA, Ulster Council, Antrim GAA need to state their redline, and perhaps that is what Jarlath is doing, so that the remaining stakeholders (British Government, IFA, FA) know what they need to pay.
In an earlier post I stated that the GAA needs to come up to with a design to suit the current budget to show they have an alternative,  that the British Government, FA and IFA need casement more than we need the debt.

The problem with any redesign is that it would never be completed on time for the Euros and then why would London want to give anything?

Yeah redesign or a significant one anyway is out of the question. UEFA land this week I think. They'll want to see some progress and cast iron assurances or they'll demand a different stadium in a different location.
London need to pony up or it is just another example in a long list of broken promises and the people are really growing tired of successive British governments promising and not delivering.

The redesign would be for a GAA stadium, not a UEFA pitch, our way of saying that you either stump up the cash now or we go an alternative direction. We don't need the Euros.

You do if you want want any money from the British Government.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 26, 2024, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19
This lady is what the future of politics should be. Fair play to her.

Deleted, what did it say? Was she speaking too much common sense?
She was. basically that she sees the reason for it. She deleted the 1st in the thread, but the other tweets under remain

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098577327771767
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 26, 2024, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19
This lady is what the future of politics should be. Fair play to her.

Deleted, what did it say? Was she speaking too much common sense?
She was. basically that she sees the reason for it. She deleted the 1st in the thread, but the other tweets under remain

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098577327771767


Very pragmatic of her. No doubt she'll get blowback from the troglodytes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2024, 03:40:04 PM
Lundy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2024, 04:13:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 03:09:13 PMTerracing in this day and age should be very limited. When the Taylor report was implemented in England clubs reported a huge increase in families and obviously corporate is a huge element now as well. We should have a stadium that can offer this option in the North.
In what sport ? NI soccer and GAA wouldn't be known for all seater.
The cost per ticket will have to be reasonable as well. Croke Park is very expensive for ordinary fans for the big matches. The North isn't exactly fluirseach.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 26, 2024, 04:15:08 PM
Be interesting to see what "our side" has to say once they see there will be no GAA museum and the field will be too short for GAA and need a retrofit after the Euros. lets keep our powder dry for now...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 04:15:08 PMBe interesting to see what "our side" has to say once they see there will be no GAA museum and the field will be too short for GAA and need a retrofit after the Euros. lets keep our powder dry for now...

There is no GAA museum in Clones, Breffni park, Pairc Esler, Athletic grounds, etc. That is not central, apply for some funding later to open a museum.
Field shorter would be a question of what is needed to restore it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 26, 2024, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 04:15:08 PMBe interesting to see what "our side" has to say once they see there will be no GAA museum and the field will be too short for GAA and need a retrofit after the Euros. lets keep our powder dry for now...

There is no GAA museum in Clones, Breffni park, Pairc Esler, Athletic grounds, etc. That is not central, apply for some funding later to open a museum.
Field shorter would be a question of what is needed to restore it.

Here I agree. There won't handball alleys either and to me that is fine to get it over the line. But wait and see how GAA ones react. Sure look at this thread, lick of paint, cover an oul stand, powerwash the terraces, it'll do rightly.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 26, 2024, 05:10:41 PM
If the Brits don't come up with a load of their £s is it:-
No Euro soccer thingy in the IFA's territory
A no frills Stadium as far as the money available allows for Gaelic games only
No €50m from the 26 Cos taxpayers
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on February 26, 2024, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19

Is it deleted now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 26, 2024, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19

Is it deleted now?
Just the first post for some reason. Very odd.

I'm fking sick of all the anti Casement stuff going about. Pure sectarianism.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PM
There are quite a few posters here with an attitude that the British Government 'will' pay out, and Casement 'will' be built.

Where is that confidence coming from?  As far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.

It's all about leverage.  The Assembly is back so no real leverage there. The stand-off over the £113 million doesn't help because not only do Stormont not want to raise that, they also want another £100 mill from Treasury for Casement, well most parties do - the DUP inevitably having fun muddying the waters. And what if someone in Government is quietly scoping out a Plan B stadium for the Euros, you would think that's a prudent thing to do to give their Ministers options.

I can't figure out how the Ulster Council is in a strong position here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PMThere are quite a few posters here with an attitude that the British Government 'will' pay out, and Casement 'will' be built.

Where is that confidence coming from?  As far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.

It's all about leverage.  The Assembly is back so no real leverage there. The stand-off over the £113 million doesn't help because not only do Stormont not want to raise that, they also want another £100 mill from Treasury for Casement, well most parties do - the DUP inevitably having fun muddying the waters. And what if someone in Government is quietly scoping out a Plan B stadium for the Euros, you would think that's a prudent thing to do to give their Ministers options.

I can't figure out how the Ulster Council is in a strong position here.
Think it'll be more down to Westminster than Stormont. Heaton-Harris was quite ambivalent and non committal last week in talks on various things which included Casement. But then next day Varadkar announced the 40 million amongst other things. There will be face saving here. They know they can't do nothing now, with Shared Ireland initiative and their own obligations. They also have funds set aside and a project plan both for the Euros and investment in NI. I know Unionists will happily cut off their nose to save their face, but UK govt is another thing and if it didn't happen there would be uproar. They also know what money it'd bring in just by hosting it, and how it pays a vast chunk back immediately. I just can't see how they can let this one slide politically over 100 million
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PMAs far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.


Where is the requirement that Ulster GAA must provide this? If they've been told it's being funded why the need to tell us?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 26, 2024, 08:44:44 PM
I think Heaton Harris has rowed back a bit since his initial commitment but I'd be surprised if they didn't pony up.
That said, we're in the dark as regards the actual figures at play here. Perhaps, like the GAA, the British govt had a bottom line figure they weren't intending to budge on.

Regardless of funding, where are we on time?
When do we expect to see an appointed contractor?
Will it be ready for Euro 2028 (2027)? It must be very tight and is it likely to continue without any other delays?
What would no Euro 2028 mean for the stadium?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 08:47:08 PM
For all the talk of the work starting last week the social club is still open and nothing has happened yet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2024, 08:53:22 PM
Jarlath Burns was interviewed on RTE Radio 1 today https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22360753/

He said that the GAA will not be putting in any more money because its original plan was not accepted and the Euros were added on later and if people want the Euros to go ahead in West Belfast they will have to pony up . Sin é.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkW2vEuYa1o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PMAs far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.


Where is the requirement that Ulster GAA must provide this? If they've been told it's being funded why the need to tell us?
No need, although it is central to the whole issue and if they had something concrete, it wouldn't be hard to say what the commitment actually was - a letter, an email, a conversation???.

But the point I'm actually making is that some people are boldly saying it 'will' be built, but how can you be so sure the UK government will stump up the missing £100+ million?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 09:00:04 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PMAs far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.


Where is the requirement that Ulster GAA must provide this? If they've been told it's being funded why the need to tell us?
No need, although it is central to the whole issue and if they had something concrete, it wouldn't be hard to say what the commitment actually was - a letter, an email, a conversation???.

But the point I'm actually making is that some people are boldly saying it 'will' be built, but how can you be so sure the UK government will stump up the missing £100+ million?
I'm not sure if it will be stumped up but it would be extremely silly if it wasn't. I've spoken with people involved with the project in the civil service and apparently the benefits that Casement will bring are huge. So the Executive and Gov both know this so it's silly to even think it might not go ahead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 09:21:56 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 26, 2024, 08:44:44 PMI think Heaton Harris has rowed back a bit since his initial commitment but I'd be surprised if they didn't pony up.
That said, we're in the dark as regards the actual figures at play here. Perhaps, like the GAA, the British govt had a bottom line figure they weren't intending to budge on.

Regardless of funding, where are we on time?
When do we expect to see an appointed contractor?
Will it be ready for Euro 2028 (2027)? It must be very tight and is it likely to continue without any other delays?
What would no Euro 2028 mean for the stadium?

They need a contractor this autumn to have a mid 2027 completion date. 2027 Ulster final was the target, but will be just beyond that now. Obviously with that time frame, works can start a little later. But can't be going beyond late 27 or early 28. We see some tournaments with stadia finished weeks before, but can't be at that here.

If no Euros, it means the area does not draw in the injection fans would give and it's meant to be worth a lot. 300 million for the island, so fair slice of that lost to Belfast area. Consequently, if no Euros, the plans could be revised as need to decide if a UEFA grade stadium is still needed. The costs have risen due to the need for the additional UEFA grade 3 facilities that a GAA only stadium doesn't need
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2024, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 09:21:56 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 26, 2024, 08:44:44 PMI think Heaton Harris has rowed back a bit since his initial commitment but I'd be surprised if they didn't pony up.
That said, we're in the dark as regards the actual figures at play here. Perhaps, like the GAA, the British govt had a bottom line figure they weren't intending to budge on.

Regardless of funding, where are we on time?
When do we expect to see an appointed contractor?
Will it be ready for Euro 2028 (2027)? It must be very tight and is it likely to continue without any other delays?
What would no Euro 2028 mean for the stadium?

They need a contractor this autumn to have a mid 2027 completion date. 2027 Ulster final was the target, but will be just beyond that now. Obviously with that time frame, works can start a little later. But can't be going beyond late 27 or early 28. We see some tournaments with stadia finished weeks before, but can't be at that here.

If no Euros, it means the area does not draw in the injection fans would give and it's meant to be worth a lot. 300 million for the island, so fair slice of that lost to Belfast area. Consequently, if no Euros, the plans could be revised as need to decide if a UEFA grade stadium is still needed. The costs have risen due to the need for the additional UEFA grade 3 facilities that a GAA only stadium doesn't need
Who came up with the Euros idea ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cup1000 on February 26, 2024, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 04:15:08 PMBe interesting to see what "our side" has to say once they see there will be no GAA museum and the field will be too short for GAA and need a retrofit after the Euros. lets keep our powder dry for now...

There is no GAA museum in Clones, Breffni park, Pairc Esler, Athletic grounds, etc. That is not central, apply for some funding later to open a museum.
Field shorter would be a question of what is needed to restore it.

Here I agree. There won't handball alleys either and to me that is fine to get it over the line. But wait and see how GAA ones react. Sure look at this thread, lick of paint, cover an oul stand, powerwash the terraces, it'll do rightly.

What are you on about, there's a Culture/Heritage centre and Handball alleys planned for the stadium as shown in the Casement promo video on youtube and in the approved plans submitted to the council?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 26, 2024, 09:57:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2024, 08:53:22 PMJarlath Burns was interviewed on RTE Radio 1 today https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22360753/

He said that the GAA will not be putting in any more money because its original plan was not accepted and the Euros were added on later and if people want the Euros to go ahead in West Belfast they will have to pony up . Sin é.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkW2vEuYa1o

I think that's fair enough, however if the GAA added an extra 5 million then surely the DUP twats can't say no to the executive upping their commitments by the same % that would be 20 million plus 83 million from stormont plus 42 million from Dublin. That's 145 million that leaves 50 odd million from London. 200 million should easily get a 35000 capacity stadium unless the builders are using gold and diamonds FFS.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derry Optimist on February 26, 2024, 10:12:54 PM
To all Unionists,Nationalists,Catholics,Protestants and Dissenters alike; sports -people and non sports - people on the island of Ireland and beyond. To  UEFA, NI Executive, British and Irish Governments. Take note why Casement Park deserves its new stadium to be developed at once. Ignore the begrudgers and biased key board warriors.
Tomorrow, February 27th, everyone of you should go out and get a copy of The Irish News and turn immediately to the greatest article ever written on how the GAA HAS AND IS CONTRIBUTING  so massively and continually to the betterment of Irish society. Take the journalistic plaudits of all right - thinking people, one Cathair O'Kane, for you have really and accurately pinpointed how the GAA needs and has earned the inalienable right for Casement Park's new stadium  to be built immediately.

 Cathair has summarised what the GAA has done on its own initiatives, how thousands of volunteers have built up successful clubs in every county, engaged so many young people in healthy pastimes and travelled hundreds of miles over the years in every town, city and parish in our country to fundraise so that future generations and communities would have a happy and healthy society.

Well done Cathair.You have done your own club,county and country proud.I have no doubt that our new GAA President, Jarlath Burns, will concur and give us all an extra push and incentive to get the dreams of all Ulster Gaels attained sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 10:31:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2024, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 09:21:56 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on February 26, 2024, 08:44:44 PMI think Heaton Harris has rowed back a bit since his initial commitment but I'd be surprised if they didn't pony up.
That said, we're in the dark as regards the actual figures at play here. Perhaps, like the GAA, the British govt had a bottom line figure they weren't intending to budge on.

Regardless of funding, where are we on time?
When do we expect to see an appointed contractor?
Will it be ready for Euro 2028 (2027)? It must be very tight and is it likely to continue without any other delays?
What would no Euro 2028 mean for the stadium?

They need a contractor this autumn to have a mid 2027 completion date. 2027 Ulster final was the target, but will be just beyond that now. Obviously with that time frame, works can start a little later. But can't be going beyond late 27 or early 28. We see some tournaments with stadia finished weeks before, but can't be at that here.

If no Euros, it means the area does not draw in the injection fans would give and it's meant to be worth a lot. 300 million for the island, so fair slice of that lost to Belfast area. Consequently, if no Euros, the plans could be revised as need to decide if a UEFA grade stadium is still needed. The costs have risen due to the need for the additional UEFA grade 3 facilities that a GAA only stadium doesn't need
Who came up with the Euros idea ?
Uk were in initially, then Ireland joined in which meant the 5 football associations covering the areas. A joint bid either way for the 2 governments, with them bidding for 2028 meaning they withdrew a bid for 2030 World Cup too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 10:32:36 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PMAs far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.


Where is the requirement that Ulster GAA must provide this? If they've been told it's being funded why the need to tell us?
No need, although it is central to the whole issue and if they had something concrete, it wouldn't be hard to say what the commitment actually was - a letter, an email, a conversation???.

But the point I'm actually making is that some people are boldly saying it 'will' be built, but how can you be so sure the UK government will stump up the missing £100+ million?
As don't think they can afford not to. It'll pay back multiples of that, and the optics will be extremely bad otherwise
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 26, 2024, 11:29:22 PM
Quote from: Derry Optimist on February 26, 2024, 10:12:54 PMTo all Unionists,Nationalists,Catholics,Protestants and Dissenters alike; sports -people and non sports - people on the island of Ireland and beyond. To  UEFA, NI Executive, British and Irish Governments. Take note why Casement Park deserves its new stadium to be developed at once. Ignore the begrudgers and biased key board warriors.
Tomorrow, February 27th, everyone of you should go out and get a copy of The Irish News and turn immediately to the greatest article ever written on how the GAA HAS AND IS CONTRIBUTING  so massively and continually to the betterment of Irish society. Take the journalistic plaudits of all right - thinking people, one Cathair O'Kane, for you have really and accurately pinpointed how the GAA needs and has earned the inalienable right for Casement Park's new stadium  to be built immediately.

 Cathair has summarised what the GAA has done on its own initiatives, how thousands of volunteers have built up successful clubs in every county, engaged so many young people in healthy pastimes and travelled hundreds of miles over the years in every town, city and parish in our country to fundraise so that future generations and communities would have a happy and healthy society.

Well done Cathair.You have done your own club,county and country proud.I have no doubt that our new GAA President, Jarlath Burns, will concur and give us all an extra push and incentive to get the dreams of all Ulster Gaels attained sooner rather than later.

It is an excellent article.
Cahir is spot on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on February 27, 2024, 08:11:57 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 10:32:36 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:54:37 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 08:42:35 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 26, 2024, 08:03:48 PMAs far as I can see the Ulster Council can't produce any evidence of a funding commitment.  Did Chris Heaton Harris tell them something over a scone, sure that's worth nothing with a Tory Minister.


Where is the requirement that Ulster GAA must provide this? If they've been told it's being funded why the need to tell us?
No need, although it is central to the whole issue and if they had something concrete, it wouldn't be hard to say what the commitment actually was - a letter, an email, a conversation???.

But the point I'm actually making is that some people are boldly saying it 'will' be built, but how can you be so sure the UK government will stump up the missing £100+ million?
As don't think they can afford not to. It'll pay back multiples of that, and the optics will be extremely bad otherwise
I think if they renege a border poll should be called that afternoon...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 27, 2024, 09:24:26 AM
Quote from: cup1000 on February 26, 2024, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 26, 2024, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 26, 2024, 04:15:08 PMBe interesting to see what "our side" has to say once they see there will be no GAA museum and the field will be too short for GAA and need a retrofit after the Euros. lets keep our powder dry for now...

There is no GAA museum in Clones, Breffni park, Pairc Esler, Athletic grounds, etc. That is not central, apply for some funding later to open a museum.
Field shorter would be a question of what is needed to restore it.

Here I agree. There won't handball alleys either and to me that is fine to get it over the line. But wait and see how GAA ones react. Sure look at this thread, lick of paint, cover an oul stand, powerwash the terraces, it'll do rightly.

What are you on about, there's a Culture/Heritage centre and Handball alleys planned for the stadium as shown in the Casement promo video on youtube and in the approved plans submitted to the council?

Retro fit. Won't be included for the Euros. Pitch will be smaller with some sort of additional temp seating. It won't look like a soccer pitch on a GAA field with the supporters miles away. Uefa have rules.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Pub Bore on February 27, 2024, 09:49:23 AM
I'm a wee bit surprised (but not shocked) at the number of soccer people in NI who would rather that the Euros didn't come to Belfast than see Casement built, and it has f-all to do with a legacy for soccer, tax payer's money or regional stadia.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 27, 2024, 10:19:12 AM
Opposition from certain unionists, commentators and some in the media   to Casement is grounded solely in their own sectarian outlook. To say otherwise is a lie. £63M for a f**king ice bowl, no bother. Says it all. Take the £50m from the  Irish Govt and the £65m from the Executive  top it up from our  own coffers build  a GAA stadium as best we can and let NI play home games in the Aviva.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 27, 2024, 10:22:53 AM
Be some stadium if we can get it over the line. Every GAA Man, Woman and Child should be pushing so hard for this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 27, 2024, 10:31:56 AM
Did the "Ulster Gaels" really dream of having a Stadium to suit Euro 2028 Soccer Cup?
Has rrhf read the Good Friday Agreement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 27, 2024, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 27, 2024, 10:31:56 AMDid the "Ulster Gaels" really dream of having a Stadium to suit Euro 2028 Soccer Cup?
Has rrhf read the Good Friday Agreement?
No  absolutely not, build one fit for GAA and let the Euros go elsewhere. I see Allister is now rehashing the Nolan line from the Not the Biggest Show in the Country that the GAA are getting a cash cow. This place has not moved on from 1920, we are still second class in the eyes of many.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 27, 2024, 11:27:33 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 27, 2024, 10:19:12 AMOpposition from certain unionists, commentators and some in the media   to Casement is grounded solely in their own sectarian outlook. To say otherwise is a lie. £63M for a f**king ice bowl, no bother. Says it all. Take the £50m from the  Irish Govt and the £65m from the Executive  top it up from our  own coffers build  a GAA stadium as best we can and let NI play home games in the Aviva.
That might very well happen. And a nice stadium it will be too. But we have an opportunity for a great stadium that will be a legacy for the area for a very long time, and will pay itself of very quickly. A UEFA grade stadium that Ulster and wider GAA community can have for use for it's games? Yes please
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 27, 2024, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 27, 2024, 10:31:56 AMDid the "Ulster Gaels" really dream of having a Stadium to suit Euro 2028 Soccer Cup?
Has rrhf read the Good Friday Agreement?

Who gives a f**k if we get a class new stadium with zero debt!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on February 27, 2024, 11:50:36 AM
Same attitude that stopped a university in Derry in the 60s. Can't now be having the best stadium in the North in West Belfast run by the GAA. Can't have Irish language signs. Cant't extend the Wild Atlantic Way to the Causeway Coast. Can't have same EU rules for milk in North and South. Can't even talk about an all-island economy. We've a command paper now to prove it doesn't even exist. The most apt line in Cahair's great article is that from a media perspective everything in North must be from a Unionist viewpoint. They must give permission and that permission won't be extended to anything that looks like the greening of the North.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2024, 01:29:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 27, 2024, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 27, 2024, 10:31:56 AMDid the "Ulster Gaels" really dream of having a Stadium to suit Euro 2028 Soccer Cup?
Has rrhf read the Good Friday Agreement?
No  absolutely not, build one fit for GAA and let the Euros go elsewhere. I see Allister is now rehashing the Nolan line from the Not the Biggest Show in the Country that the GAA are getting a cash cow. This place has not moved on from 1920, we are still second class in the eyes of many.
Not in reality. The Gaels are driving things forward. It's not 1920 any more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY2FgX6dhCc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on February 27, 2024, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: weareros on February 27, 2024, 11:50:36 AMSame attitude that stopped a university in Derry in the 60s. Can't now be having the best stadium in the North in West Belfast run by the GAA. Can't have Irish language signs. Cant't extend the Wild Atlantic Way to the Causeway Coast. Can't have same EU rules for milk in North and South. Can't even talk about an all-island economy. We've a command paper now to prove it doesn't even exist. The most apt line in Cahair's great article is that from a media perspective everything in North must be from a Unionist viewpoint. They must give permission and that permission won't be extended to anything that looks like the greening of the North.

Excellent post.
Cahair's article really did hit the nail on the head.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: dec on February 27, 2024, 10:37:52 PM
Jarlath was at Windsor Park this evening for UEFA 2028 discussions, had a present for ELP

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHYB_JmXAAAke7z?format=jpg)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2024, 10:41:51 PM
She can come to the Cavan game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SouthOfThe Bann on February 27, 2024, 11:16:19 PM
Quote from: dec on February 27, 2024, 10:37:52 PMJarlath was at Windsor Park this evening for UEFA 2028 discussions, had a present for ELP

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHYB_JmXAAAke7z?format=jpg)

Genuinely encouraging to see some banter like this from both sides hopefully it can continue despite the differences we may have.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2024, 12:05:26 AM
Quote from: marty34 on February 26, 2024, 05:38:56 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19

Is it deleted now?

The inevitable happened, of course
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/absolutely-vile-politicians-condemn-threat-made-against-uup-councillor-after-casement-park-remarks/a77840602.html
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on February 28, 2024, 01:28:22 AM
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on February 27, 2024, 11:16:19 PM
Quote from: dec on February 27, 2024, 10:37:52 PMJarlath was at Windsor Park this evening for UEFA 2028 discussions, had a present for ELP

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHYB_JmXAAAke7z?format=jpg)

Genuinely encouraging to see some banter like this from both sides hopefully it can continue despite the differences we may have.

Though there was a hint of downgrading the office of the first minister in the article.
After the match, Ms O'Neill and Mrs Little-Pengelly both praised the efforts of the NI team on the evening, with the Sinn Féin MLA saying it had been "a thoroughly enjoyable experience".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: skeog on February 28, 2024, 02:30:37 AM
Poor Jim Boyce the doyen of EUFA relegated to the 2nd tier free
bee lounge some people are full of their own importance











Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bogball88 on February 28, 2024, 08:26:53 AM
Quote from: skeog on February 28, 2024, 02:30:37 AMPoor Jim Boyce the doyen of EUFA relegated to the 2nd tier free
bee lounge some people are full of their own importance












Cliftonville fans getting done over by the IFA again-no surprise really
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on February 28, 2024, 09:58:30 AM
By Cahair O'Kane
February 26, 2024 at 8:30PM GMT

WHEN The Loup wanted to put a new pitch in a few years ago to replace Derry football's answer to the Ali Sami Yen, they did what most GAA clubs do and brought out a £20 ticket.

They had a three-for-two deal and their sellers got carte blanche. Be generous.


A child in the house? If the parents are buying, throw the child a free ticket.

It took off like a forest fire.

'It won't be an issue; they'll get the money': DUP minister reminds Heaton-Harris of Casement Park funding commitment
Their pitch would cost just over £1m.

Of that, they raised £432,000 from their £20 tickets.

It was sheer, bloody hard work – exhaustive evenings and weekends traipsing the whole of Ulster, groups of them.

"We were just counting it up, we think we knocked over 100,000 doors, from the Malone Road to the lakes of Fermanagh. It was absolutely fantastic," said then club chairman Sean Corey in 2016.

A hundred thousand doors.

Loup have just over 200 adult members. There are roughly 40 families that live there.

See, here's the thing. The idea that the GAA are standing at the doors of Westminster like Oliver Twist with his bowl has grown like a weed through the never-ending debate over Casement Park and to what level it should be funded by public money.

That has been fairly hard to take.

Casement Park will now cost over £200m, almost three times its original estimate of £77.5m.

When the Maze stadium was on the table, it was the DUP that turned away from it.

Now the institutions are back again, no sooner had Dublin ponied up €50m last week than Jeffrey Donaldson was out like the father of a child who hasn't soles on his shoes or an arse in his trousers, admonishing the neighbours for taking pity.

"We cannot see how significant additional UK taxpayer resources will be available at a time when other vital public services are in need of additional resource and capital allocations," wrote the DUP leader almost instantaneously.

This column tries really hard not to listen to Stephen Nolan, but sometimes it's a professional necessity. If I have to hear him ask one more time this week how much money the GAA has and why it won't tell us, I will throw a shoe at the TV.

Stephen, take out your phone. Open Google. Type in 'GAA financial report 2024′. There it is, all 232 pages of it, every penny accounted for.

Contained within you will find the reason the GAA's contribution of £15m is more than fair.

Last year, the GAA spent €25m on capital projects. The year before, it was €23m. For an organisation whose entire revenue last year was €112m, those are very significant sums.

They have ongoing redevelopment works in Navan, Thurles and Newbridge, new training centres to fund in Down and Longford and €15m worth of work to update Croke Park.

Unlike any other sporting body, the GAA effectively has its own insurance scheme for players. They pay a nominal fee and for that receive cover for all kinds of medical issues, right up to loss of wages.

While GAA clubs in the north almost universally own and maintain their own facilities, the majority of soccer clubs rely on council pitches they pay a small fee to rent.

How much is the IFA contributing to all these sub-regional soccer stadia that await investment?

If someone cuts down their goalposts, or spreads glass in the goalmouth, or does diffs in a Peugeot 306 on a council pitch, the taxpayer picks up that bill.

In more urban areas where grass pitches are at a greater premium, the disparity in the number of council soccer pitches to Gaelic pitches tells its own story about how public money has long been distributed.

Belfast City Council provides 107 grass soccer pitches and 16 for GAA.

A strategy document released by the council just over a decade ago said 38 new GAA pitches were needed. Five have been built.

East Belfast GAA continually have problems at the Henry Jones Playing Fields.

When the pitch had lines drawn on it so Gaelic football and hurling could be played alongside soccer, TUV candidate Anne Smyth said people were angry and talked about Rule 27, which was removed from the GAA's rulebook in 1971.

Chris Donnelly has written in The Irish News in recent weeks of how, from a media perspective, everything still starts from a unionist viewpoint. He is absolutely right.

It is the same with public money. Sporting facilities are only the tip of an iceberg that does continue to melt, but very slowly.

In 1983, a report by the New Ireland Forum that was established by the Irish government found that northern Catholics had been "deprived of the means of social and economic development".

Thirty years later, a peace-monitoring report by the Community Relations Council found that 80 per cent of the north's most deprived wards were nationalist areas and 70 per cent of its least deprived areas were unionist-dominated.

Nationalists had gerrymandered boundaries, the denial of civil rights, the lack of employment opportunities and all those other things for generations after Ireland was partitioned just over a century ago.

Perhaps if Stormont had been in session for more than two of the last seven years, the cost of Casement Park would never have mushroomed anywhere close to what it now is.

Sinn Féin may well have been the first to step out and for that they are not blameless, but the £500m or so (we've never actually gotten to the bottom of that figure) that was blown by the DUP's RHI scandal had to be dealt with in some way.

So let's not present this as the big bad GAA standing begging for £100m and wonder how they might repay the exchequer for such a handout.

The GAA more than pays its own way financially and, even more so, societally.

Half the people in Ireland would be wee round dumplings if it wasn't for the outlet it provides for almost 2,500 clubs the length and breadth of the island.

Casement Park is inextricably tied to the deadline for Euro 2028.

If it isn't built on that schedule, it is highly unlikely it will ever be built. The British government aren't going to fund a stadium that won't be part of the Euros. The clock, in that sense, ticks.

But let there be no more debate about public money. Nationalists may not like who they pay their taxes to, but they pay them all the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2024, 10:11:03 AM
Jim Boyce really hard done by, not let into a meeting he wasnt invited to and then sent to another lounge to watch football and eat food for free. It's shocking so it is the poor martyr
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Derryman forever on February 28, 2024, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2024, 10:11:03 AMJim Boyce really hard done by, not let into a meeting he wasnt invited to and then sent to another lounge to watch football and eat food for free. It's shocking so it is the poor martyr

Imagine the affront.
Is there grounds for a compensation claim?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on February 28, 2024, 10:20:55 AM
Quote from: Derryman forever on February 28, 2024, 10:16:27 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2024, 10:11:03 AMJim Boyce really hard done by, not let into a meeting he wasnt invited to and then sent to another lounge to watch football and eat food for free. It's shocking so it is the poor martyr

Imagine the affront.
Is there grounds for a compensation claim?


Maybe he could get another watch for his trouble  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on February 28, 2024, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on February 26, 2024, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2024, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 26, 2024, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: p3427977 on February 26, 2024, 01:30:44 PMSensible post by UUP Cllr.

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098575566135753?t=M8EW_Gf2e2tL6RxBZBGiIQ&s=19
This lady is what the future of politics should be. Fair play to her.

Deleted, what did it say? Was she speaking too much common sense?
She was. basically that she sees the reason for it. She deleted the 1st in the thread, but the other tweets under remain

https://twitter.com/mclaren_linzi/status/1762098577327771767


Very pragmatic of her. No doubt she'll get blowback from the troglodytes.

That's her  political career finished so.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lurganblue on February 29, 2024, 09:50:22 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68427612 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68427612)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on February 29, 2024, 11:42:31 AM
A Unionist trying to live outside the 17th Century......
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on February 29, 2024, 12:17:32 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on February 29, 2024, 09:50:22 AMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68427612 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68427612)

Authorities need to come very hard on those posting the messages. Easy enough for the Internet provider to provide the physical home address using one of their IPs if instructed to by the police
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: red hander on February 29, 2024, 01:06:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2024, 11:42:31 AMA Unionist trying to live outside the 17th Century......

Equality had broken the bastards...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on February 29, 2024, 01:10:13 PM
Social media has a lot to answer for. Nameless faceless cowards doing that. (I am aware I am anonymous here but don't go round abusing people!)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on February 29, 2024, 01:23:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 29, 2024, 01:10:13 PMSocial media has a lot to answer for. Nameless faceless cowards doing that. (I am aware I am anonymous here but don't go round abusing people!)
That clown wasn't even faceless or nameless. He used his facebook account the twit. Imagine being so deep into hatred that you can't see the abuse from your own account. He'll get a knock on the door I'd say
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on March 01, 2024, 08:53:27 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2024-03-01/stormont-officials-outline-cost-of-casement-rebuild-in-leaked-letter
£308 million?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Nanderson on March 01, 2024, 09:00:20 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 01, 2024, 08:53:27 PMhttps://www.itv.com/news/utv/2024-03-01/stormont-officials-outline-cost-of-casement-rebuild-in-leaked-letter
£308 million?
What happens now is either the government do pay up and make NI pay it back over a number of years or could we see some sort of private investor coming in to help it be built and possibly selling the naming rights to help fund it. Either way I think it will be built with the first option the more likely plot
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 09:07:58 PM
£190 million required.

This is mental.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2024, 09:19:13 PM
308 million tell them to get to f**k a lot of builders in this country take the piss meanwhile in Germany £120 million gets this 35000 mixed seating terrace stadium

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildparkstadion
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2024, 09:29:30 PM
I'm all for the euros but if the UEFA stadium spec adds this extra cost and won't really be needed again then stop. They have  120 million following  the Irish Gove money. As I have shown above that's enough to get a quality stadium, maybe not able to host euros but perfect for anything else. Get it built asap
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2024, 09:41:56 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2024, 09:19:13 PM308 million tell them to get to f**k a lot of builders in this country take the piss meanwhile in Germany £120 million gets this 35000 mixed seating terrace stadium

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildparkstadion

And "Works are being carried out in stages so that matches can be played on the existing pitch in front of at least 15,000 spectators.", so this should be more expensive than Casement where they threw Antrim out years ago, so the builders have complete use of the site.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2024, 09:49:24 PM
https://static.bnn.de/karlsruhe/karlsruhe-stadt/Wildpark_Stadion.jpg-us7j4x/alternates/LANDSCAPE_16x9_BASE/Wildpark_Stadion.jpg

Nice terracing too not like the state of the 'new' pair UI chaoimh ends
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PM
Am I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PM
If Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current   Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PMIf Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
It's estimated to cost around 4 times the original £77m. The GAA refuse to budge on the £15m they pledged 15 years ago.
But bigotry & sectarianism....
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2024, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current  Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?


Exactly what a farce. I want the euros in Belfast but you can't justify these costs they are insane. Its sounds like a hell of a lot of lads are getting big brown envelopes at that rate
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current  Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?

I believe they don't allow temporary seating for the Euros which would mean the Hill end would be empty.

The main point is U.K./Ireland bid submitted Casement Park so the British government should do the honouable thing and pay up. It's not as if the Euros won't be contributing to their economy. Heaton Harris is playing to the bigots of the world with his we won't pay if it costs too much. They committed to hosting and committed to this stadium so get the wallet out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:42:58 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 01, 2024, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current  Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?


Exactly what a farce. I want the euros in Belfast but you can't justify these costs they are insane. Its sounds like a hell of a lot of lads are getting big brown envelopes at that rate

Exactly. At what price are people willing to shout stop at?
I mean, the GAA are shouting stop at £15m of their own money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 01, 2024, 10:45:57 PM
Folks do you think it won't pay itself off even at that price? So who cares, honestly. Should have been 13 years ago. The price increase is due to others, but even so will still pay itself off
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 01, 2024, 10:47:06 PM
Can anyone have a guess at what the UEFA requirements would be that would cause a further price hike? Think in Dunedin, New Zealand they built an all seater covered stadium for 100 odd million. That would be my aim if I was to start this charade over again
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:47:16 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current  Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?

I believe they don't allow temporary seating for the Euros which would mean the Hill end would be empty.

The main point is U.K./Ireland bid submitted Casement Park so the British government should do the honouable thing and pay up. It's not as if the Euros won't be contributing to their economy. Heaton Harris is playing to the bigots of the world with his we won't pay if it costs too much. They committed to hosting and committed to this stadium so get the wallet out.
Though if the Brit government doesn't pony up for Casement then an alternative venue will be found in England and they will still reap the rewards of the Euros?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:56:48 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current  Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?

I believe they don't allow temporary seating for the Euros which would mean the Hill end would be empty.

The main point is U.K./Ireland bid submitted Casement Park so the British government should do the honouable thing and pay up. It's not as if the Euros won't be contributing to their economy. Heaton Harris is playing to the bigots of the world with his we won't pay if it costs too much. They committed to hosting and committed to this stadium so get the wallet out.

Ha! Honourable? The Tories?!! 

They'll just move the  Casement games to  Glasgow or Liverpool , and  pin the failure of NI not being involved  on the GAA, Irish  government and Sinn Fein .

How much  for a non-UEFA approved Casement ? Is it still £308m?

I was all on for the Euros coming , but between the bigoted NI fans , unionist parties,  and the Tories,  then F**k the lot of them. Screw the  Euros, just build  Casement for the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2024, 11:48:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:56:48 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 01, 2024, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 01, 2024, 09:50:42 PMAm I correct  in saying the original cost was £77 million? Now it's £308  million?  That is mad

Would a squad of  Polish builders do it for less?

That was 2011. GAA was not planning for a stadium that meets UEFA requirements. Even Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoimh or indeed any GAA stadium in Ireland would not meet UEFA requirements. Construction costs have also gone through the roof post Covid.

Yes it was 2011, but £77m was also  the cost for a  bigger stadium (38k if I recall).  So that makes the current  Price even madderer.

Why would Croke Park not meet UEFA requirements?  Sure it hosted  soccer  qualifiers. As does Landsdowne Rosd currently

What exactly  are these supposed UEFA requirements ? A heli-pad for the suits  to fly in?  A mono-rail  for  them to get to their seats?

I believe they don't allow temporary seating for the Euros which would mean the Hill end would be empty.

The main point is U.K./Ireland bid submitted Casement Park so the British government should do the honouable thing and pay up. It's not as if the Euros won't be contributing to their economy. Heaton Harris is playing to the bigots of the world with his we won't pay if it costs too much. They committed to hosting and committed to this stadium so get the wallet out.

Ha! Honourable? The Tories?!! 

They'll just move the  Casement games to  Glasgow or Liverpool , and  pin the failure of NI not being involved  on the GAA, Irish  government and Sinn Fein .

How much  for a non-UEFA approved Casement ? Is it still £308m?

I was all on for the Euros coming , but between the bigoted NI fans , unionist parties,  and the Tories,  then F**k the lot of them. Screw the  Euros, just build  Casement for the GAA.

Am very much of the same mindset. f**k them at this stage. There must be private money which can be sourced to get Casement built without Tory money. I know that would come with a lot of strings attached and payback but hell rub it up them if it could be built without them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 01, 2024, 11:54:02 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 01, 2024, 10:47:06 PMCan anyone have a guess at what the UEFA requirements would be that would cause a further price hike? Think in Dunedin, New Zealand they built an all seater covered stadium for 100 odd million. That would be my aim if I was to start this charade over again
No standing sections, electronic turnstiles, higher grade floodlighting, more VIP seating, more press facilties, commentary locations, media locations, more camera locations, photographer areas, press conference areas, outside broadcast areas, hospitality hosting areas. It is literally a different planet on what you need

But you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 02, 2024, 12:04:04 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 01, 2024, 11:54:02 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 01, 2024, 10:47:06 PMCan anyone have a guess at what the UEFA requirements would be that would cause a further price hike? Think in Dunedin, New Zealand they built an all seater covered stadium for 100 odd million. That would be my aim if I was to start this charade over again
No standing sections, electronic turnstiles, higher grade floodlighting, more VIP seating, more press facilties, commentary locations, media locations, more camera locations, photographer areas, press conference areas, outside broadcast areas, hospitality hosting areas. It is literally a different planet on what you need

But you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium
What do you mean by the bit in bold?
The GAA will own it but the cost is irrelevant to the GAA as they have a set amount they are willing to invest.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2024, 01:50:34 AM
£308 million, dont know how anybody can justify "the Just get it built motto".Wouldn't want you to be on charge of budgets in your workplace.  That cost is madness and it not make its money bck over time. Time face reality and build what we can with the money available,forget about the euros. even if u reduce its size and facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AM
How can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 02, 2024, 07:45:01 AM
Where is that £308 million figure coming from? I haven't seen any official figure on the cost. The costs being thrown around at the minute seem like pure speculation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2024, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 01, 2024, 11:54:02 PMBut you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium

You do realise there is a far larger maintenance cost associated to all the above than some bog basic terraced stadium? Since the stadium is constructed at a similar price to the GAA regardless of whether its all-singing or basic, its the on going maintenance costs I'm concerned with.

For instance, those (unneeded) additional areas do not require upkeep, you don't need to periodically check the wiring, fire alarms etc on rooms that don't exist, nor do you need to clean them. Cleaning of terracing after games requires a fraction of the time. You've no seats to replace on terracing.

In the 2019 financial report - first one I got on google - Croke park had a stadium & admin expense of ~€6.2m. Heat/Light/Power was an additional €1m. Staff costs were ~€2.8m.

That is approx €10m to run the stadium. The latter two would be more direct functions of how many events are on - so will disregard them. If we reasonably assume that the stadium/admin costs are directly related to size, then Casement would be approx 40% Croke's maintenance cost - or €2.6m in 2019 prices.

So Ulster Council will need to raise somewhere in the region of €2.6m (2019 prices) after direct operating costs just to upkeep the stadium.

In 2019, Croke had 28 games and 3 concerts to deliver a gross income of around €29m. (total expenses to do that were €17m. We'll remove the "fixed" €~6.2m I mentioned above from this)

So they made approx €580k per game. We'll not factor by size to be favourable to Casement. It still means Ulster council need to fill or nearly fill Casement 4.5 times a year just to keep the stadium.

Needless to say, they won't be able to do this.



It. Doesn't. Fukking. Add. Up.


(Unless of course, there is an open admission that the Ulster Council are actually building a concert venue that they may occasionally let hold a football or hurling match.)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2024, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 01, 2024, 11:54:02 PMBut you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium

You do realise there is a far larger maintenance cost associated to all the above than some bog basic terraced stadium? Since the stadium is constructed at a similar price to the GAA regardless of whether its all-singing or basic, its the on going maintenance costs I'm concerned with.

For instance, those (unneeded) additional areas do not require upkeep, you don't need to periodically check the wiring, fire alarms etc on rooms that don't exist, nor do you need to clean them. Cleaning of terracing after games requires a fraction of the time. You've no seats to replace on terracing.

In the 2019 financial report - first one I got on google - Croke park had a stadium & admin expense of ~€6.2m. Heat/Light/Power was an additional €1m. Staff costs were ~€2.8m.

That is approx €10m to run the stadium. The latter two would be more direct functions of how many events are on - so will disregard them. If we reasonably assume that the stadium/admin costs are directly related to size, then Casement would be approx 40% Croke's maintenance cost - or €2.6m in 2019 prices.

So Ulster Council will need to raise somewhere in the region of €2.6m (2019 prices) after direct operating costs just to upkeep the stadium.

In 2019, Croke had 28 games and 3 concerts to deliver a gross income of around €29m. (total expenses to do that were €17m. We'll remove the "fixed" €~6.2m I mentioned above from this)

So they made approx €580k per game. We'll not factor by size to be favourable to Casement. It still means Ulster council need to fill or nearly fill Casement 4.5 times a year just to keep the stadium.

Needless to say, they won't be able to do this.



It. Doesn't. Fukking. Add. Up.

The wolf tones will fill it once a year  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2024, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 09:13:41 AMThe wolf tones will fill it once a year  ;D

The "Beyond the grave tour 2034"  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Brendan on March 02, 2024, 09:43:50 AM
Aside from the costs its the bad look of the thing, filled once or twice a year, is there any county that actually needs their full capacity these days, Kerry for the odd league game? The crowds at the round Robin games last year were piss poor then its into croker anyway after that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AM
You are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks, I'll not be surprised it's Unionist led. The cost will more likely be £180-£200m which is estimated, the Principal Contractor will likely get a few more million from CE's and EW's etc. Until it's tendered and prices come back everyone is just picking a number and doubling it.
If I'm wrong and it is £300m (which i doubt) then lets look at it again and reduce it or whatever it takes but until then stop guessing the price and wait and see. Material prices have roughly doubled and salaries too in 12 years or so, on that basis and the initial costing of £80m i'm guessing (and adding another bit to it) is between £180m-£200m
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2024, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMYou are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks,

That's the build cost.

What about maintenance cost?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 02, 2024, 10:35:02 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMYou are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks, I'll not be surprised it's Unionist led. The cost will more likely be £180-£200m which is estimated, the Principal Contractor will likely get a few more million from CE's and EW's etc. Until it's tendered and prices come back everyone is just picking a number and doubling it.
If I'm wrong and it is £300m (which i doubt) then lets look at it again and reduce it or whatever it takes but until then stop guessing the price and wait and see. Material prices have roughly doubled and salaries too in 12 years or so, on that basis and the initial costing of £80m i'm guessing (and adding another bit to it) is between £180m-£200m
Why do you say that? Do you have a figure that you wouldn't go past?

I'm taking from your post that it's somewhere between £200m and £300m?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 10:50:21 AM
The figures being banded about are crazy...

But don't kid yourselves that the money if not put into Casement will be used for hospitals nurses education and other worthwhile causes.

And Casement will never be built in any form. If this is delayed cancelled then the money that'll be used for planning, new designs and the like will not be there. The 15 million that the GAA have promised wouldn't be enough to demolish the place
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 02, 2024, 10:35:02 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMYou are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks, I'll not be surprised it's Unionist led. The cost will more likely be £180-£200m which is estimated, the Principal Contractor will likely get a few more million from CE's and EW's etc. Until it's tendered and prices come back everyone is just picking a number and doubling it.
If I'm wrong and it is £300m (which i doubt) then lets look at it again and reduce it or whatever it takes but until then stop guessing the price and wait and see. Material prices have roughly doubled and salaries too in 12 years or so, on that basis and the initial costing of £80m i'm guessing (and adding another bit to it) is between £180m-£200m
Why do you say that? Do you have a figure that you wouldn't go past? No, the cost does not bother me.

I'm taking from your post that it's somewhere between £200m and £300m? I'm basing my estimate on salaries and material costs from it's initial costing. As above i'm going for £180m - £200m

My view is the stadium needs built. For Antrim and for West Belfast, I would love to have what they're proposing and be proud of it. Showing it off to the World. However, if that is not feasible then get something built that is. I would love nothing more than the Irish Government to stomp up the additional money for this just to rub the bitter bastids noses in it, that would send them over the edge.
If this stadium is never built as stated above this money will not go to Health and infrastructure as it's a different pot of money, if they were to do that it would be a grain of sand to their budget and wouldn't change a thing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LC on March 02, 2024, 12:40:29 PM
On the presumption they can get a Main Contractor on board in the next 6 months whoever that Contractor is will hit the jackpot. They will be working for a Client who is under immense pressure to get the project over the line ahead of Euro 2028 so whatever commercial / contractual disputes that may arise the Contractor will always have the upper hand so will  stick the arm in accordingly because they know the Client has to keep the job moving no matter what.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on March 02, 2024, 01:35:23 PM
Quote from: Brendan on March 02, 2024, 09:43:50 AMAside from the costs its the bad look of the thing, filled once or twice a year, is there any county that actually needs their full capacity these days, Kerry for the odd league game? The crowds at the round Robin games last year were piss poor then its into croker anyway after that
When did an Ulster final last attract a crowd over 30k.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2024, 01:37:45 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on March 02, 2024, 01:35:23 PM
Quote from: Brendan on March 02, 2024, 09:43:50 AMAside from the costs its the bad look of the thing, filled once or twice a year, is there any county that actually needs their full capacity these days, Kerry for the odd league game? The crowds at the round Robin games last year were piss poor then its into croker anyway after that
When did an Ulster final last attract a crowd over 30k.
Was Clones not sold out last year or very close to it? How many does it hold?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 02, 2024, 01:41:33 PM
Ulster final importance becoming more and more diluted with the make up of the leagues and entry to Sam Maguire now, there might not be one in 5-10 years time
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on March 02, 2024, 01:48:30 PM
On the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2024, 01:49:10 PM
It'll always mean something to Ulster people imo unless we see a team turn into Dublin/Kerry and win 9 outta 10 regularly. Realistically it'll be once in a blue moon that an Ulster team will be in top 2 favourites for the all ireland and ulster is obviously the next biggest prize.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: twohands!!! on March 02, 2024, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2024, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 01, 2024, 11:54:02 PMBut you know what? When it's built, it ends up paying itself off. And then you own it until the place falls apart in 70 years time. So no matter what it is absolutely worth getting the additional rather than some bog basic terraced stadium

You do realise there is a far larger maintenance cost associated to all the above than some bog basic terraced stadium? Since the stadium is constructed at a similar price to the GAA regardless of whether its all-singing or basic, its the on going maintenance costs I'm concerned with.

For instance, those (unneeded) additional areas do not require upkeep, you don't need to periodically check the wiring, fire alarms etc on rooms that don't exist, nor do you need to clean them. Cleaning of terracing after games requires a fraction of the time. You've no seats to replace on terracing.

In the 2019 financial report - first one I got on google - Croke park had a stadium & admin expense of ~€6.2m. Heat/Light/Power was an additional €1m. Staff costs were ~€2.8m.

That is approx €10m to run the stadium. The latter two would be more direct functions of how many events are on - so will disregard them. If we reasonably assume that the stadium/admin costs are directly related to size, then Casement would be approx 40% Croke's maintenance cost - or €2.6m in 2019 prices.

So Ulster Council will need to raise somewhere in the region of €2.6m (2019 prices) after direct operating costs just to upkeep the stadium.

In 2019, Croke had 28 games and 3 concerts to deliver a gross income of around €29m. (total expenses to do that were €17m. We'll remove the "fixed" €~6.2m I mentioned above from this)

So they made approx €580k per game. We'll not factor by size to be favourable to Casement. It still means Ulster council need to fill or nearly fill Casement 4.5 times a year just to keep the stadium.

Needless to say, they won't be able to do this.



It. Doesn't. Fukking. Add. Up.


(Unless of course, there is an open admission that the Ulster Council are actually building a concert venue that they may occasionally let hold a football or hurling match.)


This is the exact problem that is killing PuC -  The Cork County Board had the same idea that concerts would be used to save their bacon - it worked for them in the 70s with the original stadium but that hasn't worked out for them this time around. Trying to payback debt when the stadium is making an ongoing loss is killing them. At the lastCork AGM they announced that the most "optimistic" estimate on when Cork County Board will be debt free is 2048.

As to the source for the estimated 308 million costs, this article is the original source and it's worth a read especially what Heaton-Harris has to say which given he is the one in London who said it would be built aren't exactly the best in terms of the vibes.

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2024-03-01/stormont-officials-outline-cost-of-casement-rebuild-in-leaked-letter
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 02, 2024, 08:46:19 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 02, 2024, 01:48:30 PMOn the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.

Well, there ya go

To hell with the Euros and  with  UEFA and their demands for a heli-pad, monorail  and a rotating cake stand in  the  corporate lounge. 

No point building  unnecessary stuff that'll never  be needed in a GAA stadium.  Build Casement for GAA purposes I'm sure won't be  costing £308m
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2024, 11:03:36 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 02, 2024, 08:46:19 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 02, 2024, 01:48:30 PMOn the UEFA requirements adding significant costs - I did see either a document or an article somewhere back when PuC was at the planning stage about how much extra meeting UEFA requirements would add to the cost and even back then it was a massive amount for the PUC project -  I can't remember the figure but from what I do recall it wasn't far off doubling the cost of the entire project. I want to say something like €50m million back when the PUC project was around the €70 million mark. I remember seeing it and knowing there was no chance PuC would ever meet the UEFA requirements. Also from what I remember a lot of the UEFA requirements were stuff that would be of no benefit to the GAA - there had to be a massive facility for the media and also there was a big requirement for corporate entertaining - from what I remember it was way way beyond what PuC would ever need even accounting for the wildest estimates of the Cork County Board.

Also I'd imagine that in any budget the hard deadline of the Euros would add a significant percentage to the overall cost.

If the Euro 2028 requirements were dropped I could see it saving a significant amount of the total cost. However if that was the case I could see London not being willing to contribute much if anything to the budget.

Well, there ya go

To hell with the Euros and  with  UEFA and their demands for a heli-pad, monorail  and a rotating cake stand in  the  corporate lounge. 

No point building  unnecessary stuff that'll never  be needed in a GAA stadium.  Build Casement for GAA purposes I'm sure won't be  costing £308m

Does the corporate entertaining have to be in a permanent structure? I presume there are event companies internationally that can do this with gold plated prefabs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 02, 2024, 11:20:51 PM
How come the government. down south didn't bale out the Cork stadium, saying they donating e50 million to Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on March 03, 2024, 01:43:11 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 02, 2024, 10:35:02 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMYou are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks, I'll not be surprised it's Unionist led. The cost will more likely be £180-£200m which is estimated, the Principal Contractor will likely get a few more million from CE's and EW's etc. Until it's tendered and prices come back everyone is just picking a number and doubling it.
If I'm wrong and it is £300m (which i doubt) then lets look at it again and reduce it or whatever it takes but until then stop guessing the price and wait and see. Material prices have roughly doubled and salaries too in 12 years or so, on that basis and the initial costing of £80m i'm guessing (and adding another bit to it) is between £180m-£200m
Why do you say that? Do you have a figure that you wouldn't go past? No, the cost does not bother me.

I'm taking from your post that it's somewhere between £200m and £300m? I'm basing my estimate on salaries and material costs from it's initial costing. As above i'm going for £180m - £200m

My view is the stadium needs built. For Antrim and for West Belfast, I would love to have what they're proposing and be proud of it. Showing it off to the World. However, if that is not feasible then get something built that is. I would love nothing more than the Irish Government to stomp up the additional money for this just to rub the bitter bastids noses in it, that would send them over the edge.
If this stadium is never built as stated above this money will not go to Health and infrastructure as it's a different pot of money, if they were to do that it would be a grain of sand to their budget and wouldn't change a thing.
Lovely sentiment, but Antrim GAA leadership gave it away which was unforgivable.  I see no guarantee that Antrim will have much access to it in future. It really is a shambles of the highest order.  The posters who said it 'will' be built and the money 'will' be found - it looks like a bigger mess than ever now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 03, 2024, 08:01:41 AM
Worth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2024, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2024, 08:01:41 AMWorth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.

Exactly. We need the Euros to get this built and the IFA need casement if they want to secure the Euros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 03, 2024, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2024, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2024, 08:01:41 AMWorth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.

Exactly. We need the Euros to get this built and the IFA need casement if they want to secure the Euros.

Why?

I ask this because even before Euro 2028 became a possibility, you have always been of the opinion that the stadium should be built regardless of cost and that the bill should be picked up by the British government.
You seemed confident this would happen.
So, why now is it reliant on Euro 2028?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 03, 2024, 11:24:25 AM
The suits that started this a long time ago have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2024, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 03, 2024, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2024, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 03, 2024, 08:01:41 AMWorth noting as well that going back to the drawing board and redesigning it is not an option either if they want it for the Euros. And if it isn't being used for the Euros there isn't a snowflake in hells chance of the British Government throwing the money at it.

I don't think it's going to happen at this stage.

Exactly. We need the Euros to get this built and the IFA need casement if they want to secure the Euros.

Why?

I ask this because even before Euro 2028 became a possibility, you have always been of the opinion that the stadium should be built regardless of cost and that the bill should be picked up by the British government.
You seemed confident this would happen.
So, why now is it reliant on Euro 2028?

It should. That's exactly how I feel regardless of the cost. The amount of work the GAA does across the country is incredible and we need a state of the art stadium to play our big games in.
I am also realistic and if it takes the Euros to get it over the line (which I think it does) then I'm ok with that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.

Evertons new stadium is 55K and it's costing £500M.

Some QS or other reckons it would cost just over £200M to build Casement if it was purely specified for GAA games, but if you add in the additional requirements for a UEFA spec'd stadium then it could cost closer to £300M to complete.

If there's grounds for the GAA to negotiate on the grounds that this additional spend  to upgrade to UEFA specification is not something they should have to foot then IMO they'd be well within their rights.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 04, 2024, 09:44:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.

Evertons new stadium is 55K and it's costing £500M.

Some QS or other reckons it would cost just over £200M to build Casement if it was purely specified for GAA games, but if you add in the additional requirements for a UEFA spec'd stadium then it could cost closer to £300M to complete.

If there's grounds for the GAA to negotiate on the grounds that this additional spend  to upgrade to UEFA specification is not something they should have to foot then IMO they'd be well within their rights.
Obviously they aren't footing it. They aren't budging beyond £15m.

They are also treading a tightrope of "No bother, we'll use one of the good to go grounds we have on the reserve list."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 04, 2024, 09:44:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.

Evertons new stadium is 55K and it's costing £500M.

Some QS or other reckons it would cost just over £200M to build Casement if it was purely specified for GAA games, but if you add in the additional requirements for a UEFA spec'd stadium then it could cost closer to £300M to complete.

If there's grounds for the GAA to negotiate on the grounds that this additional spend  to upgrade to UEFA specification is not something they should have to foot then IMO they'd be well within their rights.
Obviously they aren't footing it. They aren't budging beyond £15m.

They are also treading a tightrope of "No bother, we'll use one of the good to go grounds we have on the reserve list."

That's a starting position that £15M, I'd hardly expect Jarlath to come out and say that Antrim GAA are going to cough up another £30M or the likes.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AM
I'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 04, 2024, 11:42:22 AM
Aye something like that, doesn't really make sense. Maybe Antrim should harp up. It was our pitch, all revenue should go to us.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 04, 2024, 11:57:51 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Essentially yes. However having those events add in to the local economy in many ways. Hence why government should indeed be adding more in. As they are a beneficiary in those many ways. Including the actual building of the thing too. The 300 million being quoted is quite mad as it seems to have no substantiation, and fits a certain narrative for the 'other side'. Cost even in that was said to be likely to be far lower and closer to the 200 million mark. And either way, like said, a building project like this is not the incineration of money. It adds in to the local economy massively, and is then there for generations afterwards to make money.

Should say though, that rental cost should be looked at and be right for what's needed. Let's say Ulster Rugby need it for a big European knockout match that otherwise would have went to Dublin. Rental cost should be what it costs to open it and maintain for the event with no losses. But should not be making huge profits off others like this considering government input. Take concert event promoters for every penny you can get though...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 04, 2024, 08:48:33 PM
Sure Concert promoters just raise the ticket price to match ,the bollacks.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 04, 2024, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: LC on March 02, 2024, 12:40:29 PMOn the presumption they can get a Main Contractor on board in the next 6 months whoever that Contractor is will hit the jackpot. They will be working for a Client who is under immense pressure to get the project over the line ahead of Euro 2028 so whatever commercial / contractual disputes that may arise the Contractor will always have the upper hand so will  stick the arm in accordingly because they know the Client has to keep the job moving no matter what.

Doesn't work like that. Contracts are signed and there are rates for their work, they put in monthly certs and get paid for them as they do the work. If the Contract signed is for £200m then no matter what happens they get paid £200m throughout the Project. Where additional payments come into it is through CE's (Compensation Events) or EW's (Early Warnings) these are extras claimed for events that were unforeseen in the Contract, every Contract will have them but Consultants/Designers will have this covered through SI's (Site Investigations) and other survey work etc to limit these. If these are too excessive the Client who pays will be asking their Consultant WTF is going on here, you can't stop these but you will limit them down to a few million on a large Contract like this. The other way of doing it is a Contractor Design & Build but that won't happen on a large project like this
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 04, 2024, 08:54:46 PM
Consultant do nothing about a f**k up, no chance ever getting money bck, been there too many times.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 04, 2024, 08:58:42 PM
It really has turned into a sh1t show. How and why has it come to this?. This is what happens when you let Loyalists near a GAA Project and it becomes sectarian like everything else in this sh1thole of a place.

Tell Nolan in the morning we've added the extra £100m for guns and we're building a Shooting range for the RA under the main stand and that's why the price has went up. Ohh and Gerry was never there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: marty34 on March 04, 2024, 10:45:21 PM
Could money be raised via public/private partnership, like the motorways or is thst a millstone for 25 years.

I suppose it would need a lot of events to keep that going.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 04, 2024, 10:53:28 PM
Ah the famed PPP, the stories j could tell you about that shit show, you be paying back 2.5 times the value of the money you get.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on March 04, 2024, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 04, 2024, 09:44:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.

Evertons new stadium is 55K and it's costing £500M.

Some QS or other reckons it would cost just over £200M to build Casement if it was purely specified for GAA games, but if you add in the additional requirements for a UEFA spec'd stadium then it could cost closer to £300M to complete.

If there's grounds for the GAA to negotiate on the grounds that this additional spend  to upgrade to UEFA specification is not something they should have to foot then IMO they'd be well within their rights.
Obviously they aren't footing it. They aren't budging beyond £15m.

They are also treading a tightrope of "No bother, we'll use one of the good to go grounds we have on the reserve list."

That's a starting position that £15M, I'd hardly expect Jarlath to come out and say that Antrim GAA are going to cough up another £30M or the likes.


A decade later, this is our "starting position"?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 05:38:33 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 04, 2024, 08:58:42 PMIt really has turned into a sh1t show. How and why has it come to this?. This is what happens when you let Loyalists near a GAA Project and it becomes sectarian like everything else in this sh1thole of a place.

Tell Nolan in the morning we've added the extra £100m for guns and we're building a Shooting range for the RA under the main stand and that's why the price has went up. Ohh and Gerry was never there
Lol. It has been a shitshow from day 1 but yes, it's the loyalists' fault.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RedHand88 on March 05, 2024, 07:03:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 04, 2024, 10:45:21 PMCould money be raised via public/private partnership, like the motorways or is thst a millstone for 25 years.

I suppose it would need a lot of events to keep that going.

Sure if you can raise a couple of hundred million in a few months go ahead.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 05, 2024, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 04, 2024, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 04, 2024, 09:44:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.

Evertons new stadium is 55K and it's costing £500M.

Some QS or other reckons it would cost just over £200M to build Casement if it was purely specified for GAA games, but if you add in the additional requirements for a UEFA spec'd stadium then it could cost closer to £300M to complete.

If there's grounds for the GAA to negotiate on the grounds that this additional spend  to upgrade to UEFA specification is not something they should have to foot then IMO they'd be well within their rights.
Obviously they aren't footing it. They aren't budging beyond £15m.

They are also treading a tightrope of "No bother, we'll use one of the good to go grounds we have on the reserve list."

That's a starting position that £15M, I'd hardly expect Jarlath to come out and say that Antrim GAA are going to cough up another £30M or the likes.


A decade later, this is our "starting position"?

Well you being an Antrim man/person are you aware of any fundraising initiatives from Antrim CB towards this?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: p3427977 on March 05, 2024, 09:19:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2024, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 04, 2024, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 04, 2024, 09:44:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2024, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 02, 2024, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:15:15 AMHow can it go from £80m to over £300m in a few years?

That's mad Ted.

It's only a 30, 000 seater stadium.  Imagine if it was 60 000.

Begs the question, how much would a 20, 000 seater cost to build?



Well Spurs stadium is 60k and it cost over a billion!! Not saying this is similar spec but gives you an idea.

Evertons new stadium is 55K and it's costing £500M.

Some QS or other reckons it would cost just over £200M to build Casement if it was purely specified for GAA games, but if you add in the additional requirements for a UEFA spec'd stadium then it could cost closer to £300M to complete.

If there's grounds for the GAA to negotiate on the grounds that this additional spend  to upgrade to UEFA specification is not something they should have to foot then IMO they'd be well within their rights.
Obviously they aren't footing it. They aren't budging beyond £15m.

They are also treading a tightrope of "No bother, we'll use one of the good to go grounds we have on the reserve list."

That's a starting position that £15M, I'd hardly expect Jarlath to come out and say that Antrim GAA are going to cough up another £30M or the likes.


A decade later, this is our "starting position"?

Well you being an Antrim man/person are you aware of any fundraising initiatives from Antrim CB towards this?
Why would Antrim fundraise for a stadium that isn't theirs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2024, 09:29:22 AM
So Gordon Lyons met with Stuart Andrew UK sports minister and never even discussed Casement. This is what we are dealing with. They'd rather no Euros and No Casement than see "the other side" benefit. The cost is an absolute red herring.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 05, 2024, 10:10:10 AM
If the Brits don't stump up a load of their GBPs there will be no UEFA standard stadium and no 2028 Euro Soccer Finals games in the IFA territory.
There will be £80m (possibly plus our €50m) to build a GAA Stadium of whatever size/standard can be done for that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 05, 2024, 10:40:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2024, 09:29:22 AMSo Gordon Lyons met with Stuart Andrew UK sports minister and never even discussed Casement. This is what we are dealing with. They'd rather no Euros and No Casement than see "the other side" benefit. The cost is an absolute red herring.



Ever since  Casement was back on the cards  again,  unionists have rabbited on  about the   funding for  local soccer .

why is that only an issue for them now ? (Or was I not paying attention  previously?)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: general_lee on March 05, 2024, 10:42:46 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 05, 2024, 10:40:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2024, 09:29:22 AMSo Gordon Lyons met with Stuart Andrew UK sports minister and never even discussed Casement. This is what we are dealing with. They'd rather no Euros and No Casement than see "the other side" benefit. The cost is an absolute red herring.



Ever since  Casement was back on the cards  again,  unionists have rabbited on  about the   funding for the local soccer game.

why is that only an issue for them now ? (Or was I not paying attention  previously?)
Think they may have been promised funding for local stadia which is besides the point as they gave zero fucks when Linfield FC's ground was pumped full of public money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PMIf Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
It's estimated to cost around 4 times the original £77m. The GAA refuse to budge on the £15m they pledged 15 years ago.
But bigotry & sectarianism....
Why would they offer more, the actual site is worth money, easy for  the GAA to see casement for private housing and build elsewhere. It was not their fault that it wasn't built and Rugby gave nothing and the IFA not much more. The GAA re-invests every penny in the grass roots more than can be said for either Rugby or Soccer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 03, 2024, 01:43:11 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 02, 2024, 10:35:02 AM
Quote from: illdecide on March 02, 2024, 10:19:05 AMYou are all getting your knickers in a twist...the cost is pure speculation and people have added £120m to it in 2 weeks, I'll not be surprised it's Unionist led. The cost will more likely be £180-£200m which is estimated, the Principal Contractor will likely get a few more million from CE's and EW's etc. Until it's tendered and prices come back everyone is just picking a number and doubling it.
If I'm wrong and it is £300m (which i doubt) then lets look at it again and reduce it or whatever it takes but until then stop guessing the price and wait and see. Material prices have roughly doubled and salaries too in 12 years or so, on that basis and the initial costing of £80m i'm guessing (and adding another bit to it) is between £180m-£200m
Why do you say that? Do you have a figure that you wouldn't go past? No, the cost does not bother me.

I'm taking from your post that it's somewhere between £200m and £300m? I'm basing my estimate on salaries and material costs from it's initial costing. As above i'm going for £180m - £200m

My view is the stadium needs built. For Antrim and for West Belfast, I would love to have what they're proposing and be proud of it. Showing it off to the World. However, if that is not feasible then get something built that is. I would love nothing more than the Irish Government to stomp up the additional money for this just to rub the bitter bastids noses in it, that would send them over the edge.
If this stadium is never built as stated above this money will not go to Health and infrastructure as it's a different pot of money, if they were to do that it would be a grain of sand to their budget and wouldn't change a thing.
Lovely sentiment, but Antrim GAA leadership gave it away which was unforgivable.  I see no guarantee that Antrim will have much access to it in future. It really is a shambles of the highest order.  The posters who said it 'will' be built and the money 'will' be found - it looks like a bigger mess than ever now.
It wasn't Antrim GAA's to give, all GAA grounds are vested in the association.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:57:04 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 04, 2024, 11:57:51 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Essentially yes. However having those events add in to the local economy in many ways. Hence why government should indeed be adding more in. As they are a beneficiary in those many ways. Including the actual building of the thing too. The 300 million being quoted is quite mad as it seems to have no substantiation, and fits a certain narrative for the 'other side'. Cost even in that was said to be likely to be far lower and closer to the 200 million mark. And either way, like said, a building project like this is not the incineration of money. It adds in to the local economy massively, and is then there for generations afterwards to make money.

Should say though, that rental cost should be looked at and be right for what's needed. Let's say Ulster Rugby need it for a big European knockout match that otherwise would have went to Dublin. Rental cost should be what it costs to open it and maintain for the event with no losses. But should not be making huge profits off others like this considering government input. Take concert event promoters for every penny you can get though...
Don't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 11:02:19 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PMIf Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
It's estimated to cost around 4 times the original £77m. The GAA refuse to budge on the £15m they pledged 15 years ago.
But bigotry & sectarianism....
Why would they offer more, the actual site is worth money, easy for  the GAA to see casement for private housing and build elsewhere. It was not their fault that it wasn't built and Rugby gave nothing and the IFA not much more. The GAA re-invests every penny in the grass roots more than can be said for either Rugby or Soccer.
Why would anyone else then? The GAA have a bottom line figure that they won't budge on. Fair enough but it's hard to complain that another body has too.

Also, it was not their fault it wasn't built? That's right. Everyone else is to blame for that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 11:02:19 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PMIf Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
It's estimated to cost around 4 times the original £77m. The GAA refuse to budge on the £15m they pledged 15 years ago.
But bigotry & sectarianism....
Why would they offer more, the actual site is worth money, easy for  the GAA to see casement for private housing and build elsewhere. It was not their fault that it wasn't built and Rugby gave nothing and the IFA not much more. The GAA re-invests every penny in the grass roots more than can be said for either Rugby or Soccer.
Why would anyone else then? The GAA have a bottom line figure that they won't budge on. Fair enough but it's hard to complain that another body has too.

Also, it was not their fault it wasn't built? That's right. Everyone else is to blame for that.
It comes down to a question of fairness and 100 years of GAA and indeed nationalist communities get SFA from the government, except hassle from the UDR.Look at most GAA clubs and see those years of investment in the community.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 05, 2024, 11:24:05 AM
To be honest the sensible answer is both GAA and stormont up the money from what 15 million and 62.5 million in 2010 is in today's money. I'm guessing that will bring us up to around 115 million plus 45 from Dublin. £160mill is a pretty good sum to build a decent stadium. If the euros is such a biggy then London delivers the rest but I'm at the point where I couldn't give a stuff about the euros
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2024, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 11:02:19 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PMIf Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
It's estimated to cost around 4 times the original £77m. The GAA refuse to budge on the £15m they pledged 15 years ago.
But bigotry & sectarianism....
Why would they offer more, the actual site is worth money, easy for  the GAA to see casement for private housing and build elsewhere. It was not their fault that it wasn't built and Rugby gave nothing and the IFA not much more. The GAA re-invests every penny in the grass roots more than can be said for either Rugby or Soccer.
Why would anyone else then? The GAA have a bottom line figure that they won't budge on. Fair enough but it's hard to complain that another body has too.

Also, it was not their fault it wasn't built? That's right. Everyone else is to blame for that.

Hold on. The GAA were 100% committed to a shared stadium and rowed in behind that committing games and money. It was not the GAA's fault it got pulled.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 05, 2024, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:57:04 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 04, 2024, 11:57:51 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Essentially yes. However having those events add in to the local economy in many ways. Hence why government should indeed be adding more in. As they are a beneficiary in those many ways. Including the actual building of the thing too. The 300 million being quoted is quite mad as it seems to have no substantiation, and fits a certain narrative for the 'other side'. Cost even in that was said to be likely to be far lower and closer to the 200 million mark. And either way, like said, a building project like this is not the incineration of money. It adds in to the local economy massively, and is then there for generations afterwards to make money.

Should say though, that rental cost should be looked at and be right for what's needed. Let's say Ulster Rugby need it for a big European knockout match that otherwise would have went to Dublin. Rental cost should be what it costs to open it and maintain for the event with no losses. But should not be making huge profits off others like this considering government input. Take concert event promoters for every penny you can get though...
Don't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.
Not strictly true. Needs to be a bit less than that on a fully open, bells and whistles Croker. But kinda right, but kinda not. You don't fully open the stadium, have full complement of stewards on etc. They can only open lower tiers, or even just Hogan Stand lower tier as required. There's ways to work it by minimising what is needed
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2024, 11:27:09 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 11:02:19 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 01, 2024, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on March 01, 2024, 09:59:06 PMIf Casement doesn't happen due to bigotry and sectarianism then that truly will be the final nail in the coffin for Northern Ireland.  Nolan, Alistair etc just can't see that.
It's estimated to cost around 4 times the original £77m. The GAA refuse to budge on the £15m they pledged 15 years ago.
But bigotry & sectarianism....
Why would they offer more, the actual site is worth money, easy for  the GAA to see casement for private housing and build elsewhere. It was not their fault that it wasn't built and Rugby gave nothing and the IFA not much more. The GAA re-invests every penny in the grass roots more than can be said for either Rugby or Soccer.
Why would anyone else then? The GAA have a bottom line figure that they won't budge on. Fair enough but it's hard to complain that another body has too.

Also, it was not their fault it wasn't built? That's right. Everyone else is to blame for that.

Hold on. The GAA were 100% committed to a shared stadium and rowed in behind that committing games and money. It was not the GAA's fault it got pulled.

Hold on. The GAA got more than enough money to build a stadium to suit their needs (just like soccer & rugby did) BUT they, through their total incompetence, completely fumbled it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 12:36:30 PM
Most people I know don't think Casement is a good idea.

If built to current spec it will be an enormous drain on resources.

For example if Ulster Council make circa 1 million from an Ulster final in Clones they can spread most of that around.

In the future all of that and a whole lot more will have to go to the upkeep of Casement. It will be some burden for Antrim GAA in particular.

For vanity purposes it would be great to see it built but the GAA don't need it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2024, 12:40:16 PM
Agree with that - don't think the scale of it needed at all. Don't know about the burden on antrim GAA. They won't be responsible for the upkeep.

There has been significant incompetence in this project. It's easy to play the sectarian card but you look at things like the social club and how that was handled. Has been a disaster from day one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 05, 2024, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 12:36:30 PMMost people I know don't think Casement is a good idea.

If built to current spec it will be an enormous drain on resources.

For example if Ulster Council make circa 1 million from an Ulster final in Clones they can spread most of that around.

In the future all of that and a whole lot more will have to go to the upkeep of Casement. It will be some burden for Antrim GAA in particular.

For vanity purposes it would be great to see it built but the GAA don't need it.
Most people? Most I've talked to and seen online want it

Yes it'll need upkeep, but with the events likely to be there it'll clear that by far. And won't this be on Ulster GAA? They're taking it over as far as I'm aware, so that'll not be on Antrim
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 01:31:38 PM
This Stadium should not be looked at solely from the point of view of GAA matches alone. With a proper  stadium management team, marketing etc it should become a profit centre. Concerts, other sporting events, commercialisation, stadium tours, GAA museum etc... should mean that far from being a drain it will add to resources. It should bring jobs and  footfall to the local area supporting both local and wider Belfast businesses.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 05, 2024, 01:33:10 PM
Don't know what Apples is reading?
Is it 60,000 per annum or per match?
I presume the annual cost of if maintaining Croker is in the Finance Report somewhere?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2024, 01:51:56 PM
Quote from: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 12:36:30 PMMost people I know don't think Casement is a good idea.

If built to current spec it will be an enormous drain on resources.

For example if Ulster Council make circa 1 million from an Ulster final in Clones they can spread most of that around.

In the future all of that and a whole lot more will have to go to the upkeep of Casement. It will be some burden for Antrim GAA in particular.

For vanity purposes it would be great to see it built but the GAA don't need it.

You don't know what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2024, 01:58:33 PM
No. But the GAA got abit to blame been so unprepared for the new stadium.There were 4 houses that needed to be brought for a proper exit point, and they should tried to buy these over the years before pushing for a Casement park overall.Not foreseeing the push back from residents. 80% no interest in the GAA. Not looking at proper fire exit procedure/ building regulations, there's plenty they messed up on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 02:25:30 PM
OK Trailer you tell us how Casement will make the 10 million a year it will need to wash its face?
Thats based on a 200 million spend with 5% running costs per annum.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 02:41:12 PM
Actually someone post up a revenue and expenditure estimate for how Casement will be run and if it works I will hold my hands up and say by all means work away. A great stadium like that would of course be wonderful.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 05, 2024, 03:12:04 PM
Quote from: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 02:25:30 PMOK Trailer you tell us how Casement will make the 10 million a year it will need to wash its face?
Thats based on a 200 million spend with 5% running costs per annum.

Can't believe you typed out 10 million running costs with a straight face. Where on earth are you getting that from?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 05, 2024, 10:57:04 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 04, 2024, 11:57:51 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Essentially yes. However having those events add in to the local economy in many ways. Hence why government should indeed be adding more in. As they are a beneficiary in those many ways. Including the actual building of the thing too. The 300 million being quoted is quite mad as it seems to have no substantiation, and fits a certain narrative for the 'other side'. Cost even in that was said to be likely to be far lower and closer to the 200 million mark. And either way, like said, a building project like this is not the incineration of money. It adds in to the local economy massively, and is then there for generations afterwards to make money.

Should say though, that rental cost should be looked at and be right for what's needed. Let's say Ulster Rugby need it for a big European knockout match that otherwise would have went to Dublin. Rental cost should be what it costs to open it and maintain for the event with no losses. But should not be making huge profits off others like this considering government input. Take concert event promoters for every penny you can get though...
Don't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.
Would love to know where on earth the price of 60k tickets is spent on that tbh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on March 05, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 03:47:37 PMDon't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.

Bit of a myth that one.

QuoteMany had been led to believe that the GAA required a crowd of 30,000 in Croke Park to financially break even on the day but this school of thought was rubbished by the association's stadium and commercial director Peter McKenna in Michael Moynihan's GAAconomics.

"That's an urban myth. It costs between €40,000 and €120,000 to open the stadium and we often open it at a loss. The break-even figure? For the smallest crowd, it would be €30,000 so 10,000 people paying €3 each, or €5,000 paying €6 each would do it."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2024, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: The Trap on March 05, 2024, 02:25:30 PMOK Trailer you tell us how Casement will make the 10 million a year it will need to wash its face?
Thats based on a 200 million spend with 5% running costs per annum.


Is this a serious post?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?

Where I am lost is that the wider community are paying the Bill for this yet the GAA hold the Keys and reap the profits, while basically getting a new stadium all to themselves.
I thought this stadium was for all the community? That it would be ran by an Independent Management Company.
Sure you cant expect the Soccer or to a lesser extent Rugby to be comfortable under such an arrangement?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 05, 2024, 05:41:05 PM
How many big gaa games will be in it, in a year, Antrim home games [small crowd) say 3/4, Ulster championship semi/Final, few qualifiers. Ulster club finals possible 1 semi, what we looking at 10, at the most? Value for money?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: square_ball on March 05, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 03:47:37 PMDon't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.

Bit of a myth that one.

QuoteMany had been led to believe that the GAA required a crowd of 30,000 in Croke Park to financially break even on the day but this school of thought was rubbished by the association's stadium and commercial director Peter McKenna in Michael Moynihan's GAAconomics.

"That's an urban myth. It costs between €40,000 and €120,000 to open the stadium and we often open it at a loss. The break-even figure? For the smallest crowd, it would be €30,000 so 10,000 people paying €3 each, or €5,000 paying €6 each would do it."

You've mixed my reply up there with someone else can you edit there please?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrone Dreamer on March 05, 2024, 05:49:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?

Where I am lost is that the wider community are paying the Bill for this yet the GAA hold the Keys and reap the profits, while basically getting a new stadium all to themselves.
I thought this stadium was for all the community? That it would be ran by an Independent Management Company.
Sure you cant expect the Soccer or to a lesser extent Rugby to be comfortable under such an arrangement?



Soccer and rugby got their grounds redeveloped (albeit at a lower price) and they are getting the benefit of that revenue. Similarly they have got the benefit of long term funding over the gaa. Soccer in particular has benefited from hundreds of council funded pitches. It will also benefit from the Euro's being played there - serious opportunity for exposure for the game locally.

As noted already on the thread the local community will benefit from the stadium through money spent in the area both in terms of match days and concerts etc. There'd be serious money generated in the city from major concerts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:54:40 PM
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on March 05, 2024, 05:49:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?

Where I am lost is that the wider community are paying the Bill for this yet the GAA hold the Keys and reap the profits, while basically getting a new stadium all to themselves.
I thought this stadium was for all the community? That it would be ran by an Independent Management Company.
Sure you cant expect the Soccer or to a lesser extent Rugby to be comfortable under such an arrangement?



Soccer and rugby got their grounds redeveloped (albeit at a lower price) and they are getting the benefit of that revenue. Similarly they have got the benefit of long term funding over the gaa. Soccer in particular has benefited from hundreds of council funded pitches. It will also benefit from the Euro's being played there - serious opportunity for exposure for the game locally.

As noted already on the thread the local community will benefit from the stadium through money spent in the area both in terms of match days and concerts etc. There'd be serious money generated in the city from major concerts.

So there won't be any Soccer (other than the Euros) or Rugby played there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 06:01:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:54:40 PM
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on March 05, 2024, 05:49:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?

Where I am lost is that the wider community are paying the Bill for this yet the GAA hold the Keys and reap the profits, while basically getting a new stadium all to themselves.
I thought this stadium was for all the community? That it would be ran by an Independent Management Company.
Sure you cant expect the Soccer or to a lesser extent Rugby to be comfortable under such an arrangement?



Soccer and rugby got their grounds redeveloped (albeit at a lower price) and they are getting the benefit of that revenue. Similarly they have got the benefit of long term funding over the gaa. Soccer in particular has benefited from hundreds of council funded pitches. It will also benefit from the Euro's being played there - serious opportunity for exposure for the game locally.

As noted already on the thread the local community will benefit from the stadium through money spent in the area both in terms of match days and concerts etc. There'd be serious money generated in the city from major concerts.

So there won't be any Soccer (other than the Euros) or Rugby played there.
Would there be any need? Doubt the north would get a big enough game. Maybe part of a rugby world cup bid at some stage down the line?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 05, 2024, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 06:01:40 PMWould there be any need? Doubt the north would get a big enough game. Maybe part of a rugby world cup bid at some stage down the line?

I'd say a rugby world cup would be fairly certain, at some stage. There aren't many rugby countries.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 06:53:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?

Where I am lost is that the wider community are paying the Bill for this yet the GAA hold the Keys and reap the profits, while basically getting a new stadium all to themselves.
I thought this stadium was for all the community? That it would be ran by an Independent Management Company.
Sure you cant expect the Soccer or to a lesser extent Rugby to be comfortable under such an arrangement?


Ulster Rugby, IFA got the same deal with no financial contribution. Hampden, Millennium Stadium and Wembley all got loads of public sector funding.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: square_ball on March 05, 2024, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: square_ball on March 05, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 03:47:37 PMDon't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.

Bit of a myth that one.

QuoteMany had been led to believe that the GAA required a crowd of 30,000 in Croke Park to financially break even on the day but this school of thought was rubbished by the association's stadium and commercial director Peter McKenna in Michael Moynihan's GAAconomics.

"That's an urban myth. It costs between €40,000 and €120,000 to open the stadium and we often open it at a loss. The break-even figure? For the smallest crowd, it would be €30,000 so 10,000 people paying €3 each, or €5,000 paying €6 each would do it."

You've mixed my reply up there with someone else can you edit there please?

You said you read it was 60000 tickets to break even at Croke Park. I replied with a quote outlining that that was incorrect. No mix up on my part there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 05, 2024, 07:55:43 PM
There is a fundamental mix up on your part.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 05, 2024, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2024, 04:04:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 11:11:39 AMI'm a bit lost in this Casement Park debacle.

The GAA are paying £15m toward a £300m Stadium.

Soccer will be played there in the Euros.

The GAA then get it all to themselves for Games, Concerts, Conferences, etc

GAA get all the revenue?



Where exactly are you lost?

Where I am lost is that the wider community are paying the Bill for this yet the GAA hold the Keys and reap the profits, while basically getting a new stadium all to themselves.
I thought this stadium was for all the community? That it would be ran by an Independent Management Company.
Sure you cant expect the Soccer or to a lesser extent Rugby to be comfortable under such an arrangement?


Yes. Is this honestly hard to understand. Sport is a massive net benefit to both the community and the exchequer/government. Government benefits hugely from a) the building work, b) events held locally, people spending money, c) health benefits of raising interest in sport.

The government SHOULD absolutely pay into capital projects in this as they have vested interests and they make it back many fold in what sport does for the economy and community at large. And all profits by the sporting organisation tends to be ploughed back in to the community. GAA puts back in 87p of every quid it gets in. Governments know it is in their interest to support and fund sport capital projects, and not to be the one in receipt of profits as they make it back anyway without hindering or handicapping the sport itself. Jeez, can we actually think about this for an actual minute?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 08:25:05 PM
Quote from: square_ball on March 05, 2024, 07:34:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: square_ball on March 05, 2024, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 03:47:37 PMDon't forget  that on many occasions such as Antrim Club games or home national league games the stadium will run at a loss. I read some where that Croke Park needs to sell C. 60,000 tickets to break even.

Bit of a myth that one.

QuoteMany had been led to believe that the GAA required a crowd of 30,000 in Croke Park to financially break even on the day but this school of thought was rubbished by the association's stadium and commercial director Peter McKenna in Michael Moynihan's GAAconomics.

"That's an urban myth. It costs between €40,000 and €120,000 to open the stadium and we often open it at a loss. The break-even figure? For the smallest crowd, it would be €30,000 so 10,000 people paying €3 each, or €5,000 paying €6 each would do it."

You've mixed my reply up there with someone else can you edit there please?

You said you read it was 60000 tickets to break even at Croke Park. I replied with a quote outlining that that was incorrect. No mix up on my part there.
If you read back my message was. "Would love to know where on earth the price of 60k tickets is spent on that tbh."

I was replying to someone else who said it took 60k tickets to break even which I find hard to believe
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 05, 2024, 08:44:16 PM
Reading thru these comments would depress the fu*K outta ya. People want it, people don't want. People want a smaller one and People want a smaller one with conditions. The price is £300m, it's £10m a year to run and it's sectarian. Croke Park stated themselves they need something in the region of 32,000 to break even. How does this jump to 60,000, it's like the costing for the stadium it just keeps jumping up every time someone opens their cake-hole

What alternatives to we have here...

This can only happen at Casement so rule out any other venue (that's the deal...so deal with it)

Go with the proposed design and ask the Brits for dosh to complete it ( a drop in the Ocean to them)

Get it re-designed to 18,000  and tell everyone else to F*ck off )including N Ireland Football and Euros) and wait to 2032 for it to be built and yes you've guessed it, it's now £200m because the costs have went up...Ohh wait we haven't the money for that...

Scrap everything and cancel the stadium, let Antrim feck off and when you gather up a few quid pump it into Clones

My favourite one of all (which is just fantasy btw). Irish Government pay for the rest and get her built, come the time of the Euros tell N Ireland to go suck your b@lls you can't use it because we don't like you very much and let ROI use it instead. That would prob lead to Civil War.




Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 05, 2024, 09:13:46 PM
Will the 6 counties even qualify? What way was it left if not all 5 hosts qualify?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 05, 2024, 09:53:36 PM
If they're a host Nation they do not need to qualify...that's my understanding.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 05, 2024, 09:56:15 PM
Quote from: illdecide on March 05, 2024, 09:53:36 PMIf they're a host Nation they do not need to qualify...that's my understanding.

Don't think that's the case when it's spread over a few countries
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tyrone Dreamer on March 05, 2024, 09:59:23 PM
They're talking about all 5 countries entering qualification. Two spots will be held back for whoever doesn't qualify via that route. So if only two
Qualify via qualification one host will miss out on the euros.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 06, 2024, 07:35:46 AM
In some better news, I gather the proposed design is not all-seater, or at least, not after its converted for GAA use after its initial Euros compatible format.

Whether there is the money to carry out that rejig is another matter.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 06, 2024, 08:01:04 AM
Seems abit silly to get rid of a whole load of seats does it not?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on March 06, 2024, 08:38:03 AM
Why downgrade from an all seater to put in a terrace for a couple of thousand more bodies. When will it ever get over 30k.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 06, 2024, 09:00:52 AM
I think this refers to the temporary seating required for the Euros. As they don't need such a large field for soccer games, they will have a method of installing seats in sections that will be come over some of the GAA pitch. I think this would mean that an initial section of the main stands at pitch level will be terracing to allow these sections of seats to be installed, linking into the main stand itself.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 06, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 06, 2024, 09:00:52 AMI think this refers to the temporary seating required for the Euros. As they don't need such a large field for soccer games, they will have a method of installing seats in sections that will be come over some of the GAA pitch. I think this would mean that an initial section of the main stands at pitch level will be terracing to allow these sections of seats to be installed, linking into the main stand itself.

No it will be just the same footprint but one end that was originally planned to be fully terrace will have seats for the euros due to UEFA criteria but post euros can have the seats removed and rails for terracing then placed bringing capacity back up from 30000 to 34500
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 06, 2024, 09:16:30 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 06, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 06, 2024, 09:00:52 AMI think this refers to the temporary seating required for the Euros. As they don't need such a large field for soccer games, they will have a method of installing seats in sections that will be come over some of the GAA pitch. I think this would mean that an initial section of the main stands at pitch level will be terracing to allow these sections of seats to be installed, linking into the main stand itself.

No it will be just the same footprint but one end that was originally planned to be fully terrace will have seats for the euros due to UEFA criteria but post euros can have the seats removed and rails for terracing then placed bringing capacity back up from 30000 to 34500
Ah right so. There is allowance for temp seats to go further into the field and not have the pitch so big for soccer, right? I recall reading that before
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 23, 2024, 08:42:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 07:00:58 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on February 22, 2024, 11:48:29 PMPretty much the only thing I've seen about estimated cost of the stadium anywhere was the bit below from the Examiner.

QuoteSome projections claim the final cost of reconstruction of the Euro 2028 venue will be in excess of £225m. The GAA's first commitment of £15m was roughly 20% of the original £77.5m outlay, which was estimated last July to have jumped to £168m.

Based on that I'd say £168m was an absolute basement price - this was before the Euros were confirmed and that time pressure (plus the extras UEFA insist on which will cost a bit more) is only going to affect the price one way. Throw in the fact that Leo and co pitched up with €50million already make me think the cost will be over the £200 million mark. The key question is what sort of funding London is going to actually hand over.
My fear is that at the end of the day Ulster GAA are going to be the ones left carrying the can for any cost over-runs, especially if the stadium isn't done in time for the Euros. The nightmare scenario is that the stadium doesn't get finished in time for the Euros and London turns off the money tap and Ulster GAA are left with a stadium that will costs millions to finish that Ulster GAA don't have.   

In related news was talking to someone this evening and they were saying the Cork County Board chairperson was on radio this morning and part of the disussion was about ownership of Pairc Ui Chaoimh being taken over by the government and being turned into a multi-use stadium. Said the current ongoing debt situation just wasn't sustainable.
If the Brits are ponying up it won't be an exclusively GAA stadium so soccer matches will probably be played it it.
Norn iron will only play there if they qualify for euros. Their fans don't want to go near casement. It might get a ROI match or 2. Ulster rugby might play a few games there also. IRFU COULD PLAY SOME OF THEIR novembee friendlies, It could get a europa league/ Conference finals. But very few soccer games will be there I'd say post the Euros.
I wonder. I was looking at Galway vs Monaghan in Clones on Sunday. Clones has the tradition but it doesn't have what Casement will have .
https://www.casementpark.ie/design/video-flythrough/

It doesn't have corporate boxes and modern restaurants and bars and the opportunity to watch the match with your pint. Casement will have more seated capacity and a better punter experience than Pairc Windsor.

The IFA will make more money for disadvantaged loyalist  soccer clubs if they play matches in Casement . Sectarianism is also about money . Ask any drug dealing UDA member
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Mad Mentor on March 07, 2024, 02:36:13 PM
I notice from the fly through there are no 65m lines on the pitch. Gotta say it looks good though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 07, 2024, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: Mad Mentor on March 07, 2024, 02:36:13 PMI notice from the fly through there are no 65m lines on the pitch. Gotta say it looks good though.
Aye it does look class but it would need to when you hear the budget. Didn't notice anything re. corporate boxes but it way my understanding that these would be in place as a moneyspinner.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 07, 2024, 03:01:05 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 07, 2024, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: Mad Mentor on March 07, 2024, 02:36:13 PMI notice from the fly through there are no 65m lines on the pitch. Gotta say it looks good though.
Aye it does look class but it would need to when you hear the budget. Didn't notice anything re. corporate boxes but it way my understanding that these would be in place as a moneyspinner.

There's like a middle tier and I'd imagine they'll be in there. I'd buy 2 premium tickets for sure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 04:57:27 PM
This is the IFA's accounts for 2022

Check out page 10

https://www.irishfa.com/media/48131/irish-football-association-limited-2022-annual-report-and-financial-statements.pdf

There is a chart near the bottom on the left. Match day income is £3 million which is peanuts. This includes all the revenue from the Billy Bingham suite.
Total income was £17 million.

There is another chart on page 10 on the right. Spending
Total grants £3 million.  This presumably goes to soccer clubs in the North.

Windsor Park is like Clones. Ticket prices are lower and attendances are lower than they would be at the new Casement. Capacity of WP is 18,500.
They don't even sell tickets on the website because they can't meet demand and they have a waiting list.
https://www.irishfa.com/tickets
I would be very surprised if they didn't play all their home matches in Casement.

They can't fight the GAA for hearts and minds if they don't have any money. God love them.
 

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 07, 2024, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 04:57:27 PMThis is the IFA's accounts for 2022

Check out page 10

https://www.irishfa.com/media/48131/irish-football-association-limited-2022-annual-report-and-financial-statements.pdf

There is a chart near the bottom on the left. Match day income is £3 million which is peanuts. This includes all the revenue from the Billy Bingham suite.
Total income was £17 million.

There is another chart on page 10 on the right. Spending
Total grants £3 million.  This presumably goes to soccer clubs in the North.

Windsor Park is like Clones. Ticket prices are lower and attendances are lower than they would be at the new Casement. Capacity of WP is 18,500.
They don't even sell tickets on the website because they can't meet demand and they have a waiting list.
https://www.irishfa.com/tickets
I would be very surprised if they didn't play all their home matches in Casement.

They can't fight the GAA for hearts and minds if they don't have any money. God love them.
 


Be prepared to be very surprised then because this has zero chance of happening.

1. Because they won't want to.
2. Because the GAA will not allow it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 07, 2024, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 04:57:27 PMThis is the IFA's accounts for 2022

Check out page 10

https://www.irishfa.com/media/48131/irish-football-association-limited-2022-annual-report-and-financial-statements.pdf

There is a chart near the bottom on the left. Match day income is £3 million which is peanuts. This includes all the revenue from the Billy Bingham suite.
Total income was £17 million.

There is another chart on page 10 on the right. Spending
Total grants £3 million.  This presumably goes to soccer clubs in the North.

Windsor Park is like Clones. Ticket prices are lower and attendances are lower than they would be at the new Casement. Capacity of WP is 18,500.
They don't even sell tickets on the website because they can't meet demand and they have a waiting list.
https://www.irishfa.com/tickets
I would be very surprised if they didn't play all their home matches in Casement.

They can't fight the GAA for hearts and minds if they don't have any money. God love them.
 


Be prepared to be very surprised then because this has zero chance of happening.

1. Because they won't want to.
2. Because the GAA will not allow it.

I'll just leave this here :

https://www.irishfa.com/media/48131/irish-football-association-limited-2022-annual-report-and-financial-statements.pdf
The strategic financial objective of the Irish FA is to maximise its revenue so that it can invest more
into the mission of promoting, fostering and developing football for all in Northern Ireland. The Irish
FA aims to reinvest every pound generated back into supporting football in Northern Ireland. Our corporate strategy, 'A Roadmap for Football', states that "growing revenue means growing the game".


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 07, 2024, 06:46:28 PM
You can put that where you want but it doesn't equate to moving their home venue to Casement Park.
If you think that is likely to happen, you are completely lost to reality.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 07, 2024, 07:30:31 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 07, 2024, 06:46:28 PMYou can put that where you want but it doesn't equate to moving their home venue to Casement Park.
If you think that is likely to happen, you are completely lost to reality.


Linfield won't allow it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on March 07, 2024, 07:40:41 PM
Seafoid are you for real, it's never, ever happening - ever
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM
1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 08, 2024, 09:55:13 AM
It is my understanding from what i heard last night that the UK Government selected Casement as one of their designated grounds for the Euro's, based on that it is the UK Government who will have to cough up the additional funds to back this up. This money apparently is to come directly from Westminster and not from N Ireland's budget, It's pay up or shut up time. If they wanted the Tournament and they selected the Stadium then they pay the extra coin for it, I'm not sure if this does happen will there be any stipulations in the Contracts stating them Reptiles will have so many games in the Stadium even after the Euro's but I hope not and the GAA tell them all to Feck off after the Euro's is over.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2024, 10:05:54 AM
Nothing wrong with holding Euro club finals and the like there, they might not have the to run the gauntlet of fire like they did in Paris for the CL final as the locals are a little more friendlier  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 10:11:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see
5 games. But this is literally the point. They selected Casement as part of the bid. So they can't have it both ways here. They can't select it, but not pay for it considering what the games would bring in
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2024, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see

My eyes bleed when I read this f**king shit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on March 08, 2024, 10:43:33 AM
Does the glider run past Casement?
Perhaps another example of short sighted penny pinching!
If they had gone all out with a tram system instead of a bendy bus and had extended it to Lisburn train station and Sprucefield they would have had a partial solution to the lack of parking.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2024, 10:47:01 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 08, 2024, 10:43:33 AMDoes the glider run past Casement?
Perhaps another example of short sighted penny pinching!
If they had gone all out with a tram system instead of a bendy bus and had extended it to Lisburn train station and Sprucefield they would have had a partial solution to the lack of parking.

I think with the introduction of the glider its possible in the future that a tram system (that was there in the 60's lol) could be put in place
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 10:11:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see
5 games. But this is literally the point. They selected Casement as part of the bid. So they can't have it both ways here. They can't select it, but not pay for it considering what the games would bring in
They could, however, decide that the Casement project is going to require too much financial investment and use one of the ready-to-go ground that are on the reserve list.
The games would still "bring in" the same to the UK economy. And not cost them a significant outlay.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 11:00:57 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 08, 2024, 10:43:33 AMDoes the glider run past Casement?
Perhaps another example of short sighted penny pinching!
If they had gone all out with a tram system instead of a bendy bus and had extended it to Lisburn train station and Sprucefield they would have had a partial solution to the lack of parking.
Not as yet, but in the plan there is allowances for a Glider stop with increased on event day. Talk of a separate park and ride nearby too
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 11:04:25 AM
The Glider does go past Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 10:11:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see
5 games. But this is literally the point. They selected Casement as part of the bid. So they can't have it both ways here. They can't select it, but not pay for it considering what the games would bring in
They could, however, decide that the Casement project is going to require too much financial investment and use one of the ready-to-go ground that are on the reserve list.
The games would still "bring in" the same to the UK economy. And not cost them a significant outlay.
To a point. If it's a ready built one in or near another city in the plan (like the 4 stadia that didn't go forward are Old Trafford with Etihad already there, and London Stadium with already 2 others in London, Croker with Aviva already there, and Sunderland) means you just absorb those in already but will there be any actual extra spending? If having to travel to Belfast and stay then they may spend more than if they stayed in England somewhere where they were anyway for game before. That spending makes a huge difference in Belfast than London or Manchester

Also, infrastructure building needs to be considered and it's an easy way to build stuff that will pay itself off. The soccer people won't be happy with it, but one thing about Casement is it will be a legacy left and will be seen as UK investment in local infrastructure when they will be spending anyway. If it lost out to already there stadia like Old Trafford and London (although upgrades will be needed on both) then that's a very bad look on stuff there already and upgrading already rich football clubs grounds while Casement sits idle. Make no mistake here, if this does not go ahead there, and Casement is not bult, then it is huge governance failure on multiple levels
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AM
If the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2024, 12:01:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.

f**k off
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Clones was redeveloped in the early 90s for £4.5 million. Even if you treble that for cost inflation it's less than £15m. £65m would still buy a decent pure GAA stadium but there wouldn't be any premium level.

The full monty Casement would be much better, obviously.

If it was built would the soccer crowd demand the same for their sport or would logic prevail?
Of course it's the North where reality is suspended

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJM_jC7j_4
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tiempo on March 08, 2024, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.

Quising spake
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JoG2 on March 08, 2024, 01:18:56 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it

'some terracing'...you are spoiling us ambassador  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2024, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Clones was redeveloped in the early 90s for £4.5 million. Even if you treble that for cost inflation it's less than £15m. £65m would still buy a decent pure GAA stadium but there wouldn't be any premium level.

The full monty Casement would be much better, obviously.

If it was built would the soccer crowd demand the same for their sport or would logic prevail?
Of course it's the North where reality is suspended

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJM_jC7j_4

Just stop. You don't know what you are talking about. You cannot seem to read any of the points that have been made ad Infinium on this thread in relation to "a pure GAA stadium" "Clones" and "the soccer crowd".

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armagh18 on March 08, 2024, 01:28:59 PM
Great to see a Tyrone man speaking sense for once, fair play Trailer! ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 11:04:25 AMThe Glider does go past Casement.

I'm not familiar  very much with Belfast .

If there is a glider stop   At Casement , are there any     Park and Ride facilities further out  of the city (around Sprucefield/Long Kesh etc) that would enable  easy access  for matches by the Glider?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clarshack on March 08, 2024, 01:54:12 PM
this is the best chance to get a world class stadium in these neck of the woods. it needs to happen now or it never will.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 08, 2024, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)

I already posted that plenty of good stadia around Europe have been built recently for the 120 million mark for that sort of capacity seating and terracing. They just need to find good honest builders, unfortunately most GAA redevelopments cost the earth for not a lot which should be raising all sorts of red flags
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
First off, the GAA requirements are not the full cost of the stadium. GAA needs are far less than the UEFA standard, so if no Euros, or they don't want to host UEFA matches or such in future, then the cost gets revised down quite a bit from the silly figures being bandied about the place. I can't see how the British are let off with putting in no more money here, Euros or not. The original NI executive allowance is very far below inflation levels, and in order for some sort of stadium to be built, they will come in with something. I can't see how it will be swallowed politically if Ireland chumps in with 50million a few weeks ago and they do nothing, yet will get the tax proceeds of a stadium there. A very good stadium can be built with no Euros, but the point being is for a little bit more, the Euros can be done and you leave a modern legacy stadium there for all and paid off nearly immediately.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnnycool on March 08, 2024, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see

The IFA allowed themselves to be rode bareback by Linfield at the time of the Windsor stadium redevelopment, so much so other clubs kicked up a stink, none more so that Crusaders who got a free pitch because of it.

Linfield get a lot of the matchday profits when it comes to NI internationals.

A new Casement would allow them to generate more money, IF they can do a deal with Ulster GAA, but that may be part of the extra funding from Westminster which CHH is indeed on record as saying that the money would be found.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2024, 02:43:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 08, 2024, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2024, 08:30:34 PM1. The Brits are not going to top up the funding for the sake of 4 matches imo.

2. The IFA is one of the key institutions of partition but is very weak at the moment. I didn't realise how poor it was.

3. This is about ideology versus money. Partition and sectarianism are stupid. Refusing to play in Casement might be consistent but it would also be stupid.

This must be the first time on the North, assuming that Casement goes ahead, that the Croppies have superior infrastructure to the chosen people. That is why it is so interesting. Usually culture war participants don't turn up.their noses at money.



Let's see

The IFA allowed themselves to be rode bareback by Linfield at the time of the Windsor stadium redevelopment, so much so other clubs kicked up a stink, none more so that Crusaders who got a free pitch because of it.

Linfield get a lot of the matchday profits when it comes to NI internationals.

A new Casement would allow them to generate more money, IF they can do a deal with Ulster GAA, but that may be part of the extra funding from Westminster which CHH is indeed on record as saying that the money would be found.


I can't see the IFA using Casement post Euros. Even just consider all the imagery that will be in situ as GAA ground. Are you suggesting that will be replaced at the time of a possible NI game. This idea is pie in sky.

The IFA also have a 51 year agreement with Linfield in regards to Windsor park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2024, 03:18:59 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 11:04:25 AMThe Glider does go past Casement.

I'm not familiar  very much with Belfast .

If there is a glider stop  At Casement , are there any    Park and Ride facilities further out  of the city (around Sprucefield/Long Kesh etc) that would enable  easy access  for matches by the Glider?

Glider stop is right at the leisure center next door to Casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2024, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2024, 03:18:59 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 11:04:25 AMThe Glider does go past Casement.

I'm not familiar  very much with Belfast .

If there is a glider stop  At Casement , are there any    Park and Ride facilities further out  of the city (around Sprucefield/Long Kesh etc) that would enable  easy access  for matches by the Glider?

Glider stop is right at the leisure center next door to Casement

Which is more or less irrelevant on match day. On A Sunday this runs every 15 minutes, so could transport less than 1% of patrons, given there are some other people on the bus.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
First off, the GAA requirements are not the full cost of the stadium. GAA needs are far less than the UEFA standard, so if no Euros, or they don't want to host UEFA matches or such in future, then the cost gets revised down quite a bit from the silly figures being bandied about the place. I can't see how the British are let off with putting in no more money here, Euros or not. The original NI executive allowance is very far below inflation levels, and in order for some sort of stadium to be built, they will come in with something. I can't see how it will be swallowed politically if Ireland chumps in with 50million a few weeks ago and they do nothing, yet will get the tax proceeds of a stadium there. A very good stadium can be built with no Euros, but the point being is for a little bit more, the Euros can be done and you leave a modern legacy stadium there for all and paid off nearly immediately.

Well, they have continually underfunded the north  for years , so  not stumping up money for Casement would be  nothing new.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 04:57:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2024, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2024, 03:18:59 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 11:04:25 AMThe Glider does go past Casement.

I'm not familiar  very much with Belfast .

If there is a glider stop  At Casement , are there any    Park and Ride facilities further out  of the city (around Sprucefield/Long Kesh etc) that would enable  easy access  for matches by the Glider?

Glider stop is right at the leisure center next door to Casement

Which is more or less irrelevant on match day. On A Sunday this runs every 15 minutes, so could transport less than 1% of patrons, given there are some other people on the bus.

So, the Glider isn't going to be ferrying in  thousands of fans on match days then , nor  alleviating  traffic

Any chance a  tram system could be built  in Belfast by  2028?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on March 08, 2024, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
First off, the GAA requirements are not the full cost of the stadium. GAA needs are far less than the UEFA standard, so if no Euros, or they don't want to host UEFA matches or such in future, then the cost gets revised down quite a bit from the silly figures being bandied about the place. I can't see how the British are let off with putting in no more money here, Euros or not. The original NI executive allowance is very far below inflation levels, and in order for some sort of stadium to be built, they will come in with something. I can't see how it will be swallowed politically if Ireland chumps in with 50million a few weeks ago and they do nothing, yet will get the tax proceeds of a stadium there. A very good stadium can be built with no Euros, but the point being is for a little bit more, the Euros can be done and you leave a modern legacy stadium there for all and paid off nearly immediately.

Well, they have continually underfunded the north  for years , so  not stumping up money for Casement would be  nothing new.

Not really true when you look at what's spent here per head compared to England
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 08, 2024, 05:19:03 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
First off, the GAA requirements are not the full cost of the stadium. GAA needs are far less than the UEFA standard, so if no Euros, or they don't want to host UEFA matches or such in future, then the cost gets revised down quite a bit from the silly figures being bandied about the place. I can't see how the British are let off with putting in no more money here, Euros or not. The original NI executive allowance is very far below inflation levels, and in order for some sort of stadium to be built, they will come in with something. I can't see how it will be swallowed politically if Ireland chumps in with 50million a few weeks ago and they do nothing, yet will get the tax proceeds of a stadium there. A very good stadium can be built with no Euros, but the point being is for a little bit more, the Euros can be done and you leave a modern legacy stadium there for all and paid off nearly immediately.

Well, they have continually underfunded the north  for years , so  not stumping up money for Casement would be  nothing new.

Not really true when you look at what's spent here per head compared to England
Infrastructure in the North has been neglected . I don't think that is included in the subvention. Casement and the A5 are projects which should have been completed years ago.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 06:57:45 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
First off, the GAA requirements are not the full cost of the stadium. GAA needs are far less than the UEFA standard, so if no Euros, or they don't want to host UEFA matches or such in future, then the cost gets revised down quite a bit from the silly figures being bandied about the place. I can't see how the British are let off with putting in no more money here, Euros or not. The original NI executive allowance is very far below inflation levels, and in order for some sort of stadium to be built, they will come in with something. I can't see how it will be swallowed politically if Ireland chumps in with 50million a few weeks ago and they do nothing, yet will get the tax proceeds of a stadium there. A very good stadium can be built with no Euros, but the point being is for a little bit more, the Euros can be done and you leave a modern legacy stadium there for all and paid off nearly immediately.

Well, they have continually underfunded the north  for years , so  not stumping up money for Casement would be  nothing new.
Oh absolutely, but getting one upped by the Irish government? I can't see it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trailer on March 08, 2024, 08:32:58 PM
For anyone reading this not familiar with Belfast. The "Glider" is a bus and we're discussing can the bus stop outside Casement park.

<exhales loudly>

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Duine Inteacht Eile on March 08, 2024, 08:45:50 PM
Indeed. And for the record there is a Glider stop named "Casement Park".

Having said that, years ago it was suggested that the entire Andytown Road would be closed half a mile either side of Casement on match days.
I can't remember what version of Casement this was for nor do I know if it is still a thing.

I don't think access & parking in the general area is an issue at all fwiw.
There are lots of different ways of arriving in Andersonstown from outside the city. It's just getting that info out there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on March 09, 2024, 09:13:22 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 06:57:45 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 08, 2024, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on March 08, 2024, 01:09:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2024, 11:39:52 AMIf the Euro soccer doesn't happen due to no more £s from the Brits then provide what you can with the funds available..new pitch, 5,000 seat stand, some terracing.
Imagine thinking a GAA style stadium straight from the 60s would be sufficient going forward for years... Clones needs replaced, an Ulster final location is needed. Your suggestion ain't it
No Brit money = no Euro soccer = GAA have £80m (possibly plus our €50m).
Who then is going to pay the extra £75m to build a 34k capacity Ulster Final Stadium?
Just asking a realistic question ;)
First off, the GAA requirements are not the full cost of the stadium. GAA needs are far less than the UEFA standard, so if no Euros, or they don't want to host UEFA matches or such in future, then the cost gets revised down quite a bit from the silly figures being bandied about the place. I can't see how the British are let off with putting in no more money here, Euros or not. The original NI executive allowance is very far below inflation levels, and in order for some sort of stadium to be built, they will come in with something. I can't see how it will be swallowed politically if Ireland chumps in with 50million a few weeks ago and they do nothing, yet will get the tax proceeds of a stadium there. A very good stadium can be built with no Euros, but the point being is for a little bit more, the Euros can be done and you leave a modern legacy stadium there for all and paid off nearly immediately.

Well, they have continually underfunded the north  for years , so  not stumping up money for Casement would be  nothing new.
Oh absolutely, but getting one upped by the Irish government? I can't see it
Heaton Harris' change of tone was to say we changed our mind on HS2 because costs spun out of control, so we may have to change our mind here - and there were a hell of a lot of votes at risk with HS2. It's election year and everything the Tories say will be put through the election filter first, not that Casement would register on any British voters list of worries. If they renege, it will have zero consequences for their vote in Britain.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 09, 2024, 10:33:29 AM
Seems they might lose up to 250 seats in the next GE so Euros in Belfast won't be too high on their list of priorities.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cavan19 on March 09, 2024, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2024, 08:32:58 PMFor anyone reading this not familiar with Belfast. The "Glider" is a bus and we're discussing can the bus stop outside Casement park.

<exhales loudly>



Any the answer to that would be now i would presume.  Not directly outside anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on March 09, 2024, 03:17:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2024, 08:32:58 PMFor anyone reading this not familiar with Belfast. The "Glider" is a bus and we're discussing can the bus stop outside Casement park.

<exhales loudly>



And TransLink is a dating app for the LGBTQIA community.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2024, 12:46:58 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 09, 2024, 03:17:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 08, 2024, 08:32:58 PMFor anyone reading this not familiar with Belfast. The "Glider" is a bus and we're discussing can the bus stop outside Casement park.

<exhales loudly>



And TransLink is a dating app for the LGBTQIA community.

Any luck?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 11, 2024, 11:07:22 AM
I see a Pint o' porther is £6 in Windsor Park but you can get 4 for £28 😆😅🤣
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 10:41:37 AM
The "National Stadium" of NE Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc0imsgg-YQ
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 03:40:30 PM
Someone said upthread that the buses past Casement only go every 15 minutes. Does Belfast not have different arrangements for buses feeding crowds to big matches ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: imtommygunn on March 12, 2024, 03:51:15 PM
what big matches would they be?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: markl121 on March 12, 2024, 04:27:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 03:40:30 PMSomeone said upthread that the buses past Casement only go every 15 minutes. Does Belfast not have different arrangements for buses feeding crowds to big matches ?
transport in the west is brutal, used to work on the Stewartstown road, could take half an hour to get there from divis. Buses very irregular although the glider has helped this. Usually gridlock all the time god help it on a match day in casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: An Watcher on March 12, 2024, 04:51:08 PM
I'm sure if there's a major sporting event the required buses will be pit on.  Why have them on now?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:49:57 PM
I thought Protestants were organised and would be well able to sort out regular buses to a stadium if a match was on. But are regular buses an Irish concept and thus unacceptable to Jim Allister ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2024, 09:18:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:49:57 PMI thought Protestants were organised and would be well able to sort out regular buses to a stadium if a match was on. But are regular buses an Irish concept and thus unacceptable to Jim Allister ?

Not sure about Protestants being organised

Anytime I go to Ravenhill I get train in from where I live to bus/train station and there is a bus that brings you to Ravenhill and then back to bus/train station.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: clonian on March 13, 2024, 09:42:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2024, 09:18:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:49:57 PMI thought Protestants were organised and would be well able to sort out regular buses to a stadium if a match was on. But are regular buses an Irish concept and thus unacceptable to Jim Allister ?

Not sure about Protestants being organised

Anytime I go to Ravenhill I get train in from where I live to bus/train station and there is a bus that brings you to Ravenhill and then back to bus/train station.

There's a park and ride from outside Belfast Met I think too. It works well.

I'm sure a solution can be found from Sprucefield etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 12:35:24 PM
Why didn't they link the euros to Windsor Park, trading as "the National Stadium" . #Notions

Is the Casement site bigger than the Windsor Park site ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on March 13, 2024, 12:55:02 PM
You need to go out for a walk Seaf