Down Club Hurling & Football

Started by Lecale2, November 10, 2006, 12:06:55 AM

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ck


Nanderson

Quote from: ck on November 17, 2023, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: Hard2Listen2 on November 17, 2023, 07:43:07 PM
Quote from: skat man on November 17, 2023, 01:57:51 PMare all management teams now in place ?


Kilcoo?
Burren?
Warrenpoint?
Rostrevor?
Saval?

Did Lacey get the sack?
Think hes with Jim in Donegal setup next year

Splash

Good luck to Portaferry this weekend.

Beating the Antrim Champions is always a tough ask.

Cushendall big favourites, but Portaferry have beaten them before and will believe they can do it again. Playing year in year out in the Antrim league probably means they'll be more comfortable against this opposition than they were against Slaughtneil last year.

Plenty of good hurlers in Portaferry (Tom McGrattan, Finn Turpin, Pearse Smith and Ciaran Savage particular names to watch imo) be interesting to see if they can cope with the likes of Paddy Burke who seem to be flying at the moment.

I wondered how any team in Down would cope with the physicality and size of Slaughtneil or Cushendall, but Portaferry showed in the County Final they could outplay Ballycran's physical dominance. Rinse and repeat here?

Still a (relatively) young Portaferry team, and great chance for them to make a bit of a statement. I'd say they want to show last years Ulster result wasn't a reflection of the quality of the team. Been plenty of upsets across the country so far. Hopefully the Ardsmen can add another.

Last time a Down team won Ulster was when Portaferry beat Cushendall. Be great to see it again 9 years later.



Splash

Speaking to a Mitchell's man recently. Says it looks like the club won't be lining out this year. Hardly a surprise, but awful pity.

What on Earth went wrong with Newry Mitchell's? 

Hard to know where the club can go from here. Ideally would be hoping to get to the level of Magherlin or Aghaderg if they do manage to pull it together?

Where could they get players from? In theory, Chapel Street/Courtney Hill/High Street part of the town? Problem is competing with Shamrocks and Ballyholland.

How does a fella in Newry choose whether he is Mitchell's or Shamrocks? Assuming the generic 'because his dad played for them' but how did we end up with two teams in the same small area?

Interesting how most ppl in the town over a certain age, seem to be Mitchell's men, whilst those under that age seem to be Shamrocks. Don't ask me what age that is, but it definitely seems that Shamrocks have dominance in the youth scene, which is no surprise given the Mitchell's not even fielding underage teams.

When did the shift happen? How did Shamrocks become a competitive intermediate club in both codes playing out of the county grounds whilst Mitchell's went from SFC Champions to what they are now?

Hope Mitchell's come back. Hope they field this year. Terror to see any club in the position they find themselves in.

Worth mentioning, there doesn't seem to be a great Gaelic Games scene in Newry at the moment. This needs to be addressed. I'm a big proponent of tapping into North Down, but we mustn't forget the likes of Newry at the same time. 

Is it worth noting that Newcastle and Downpatrick both have one team (Bryansford and RGU respectively), whilst Newry has 4 (Shamrocks, Bosco, Mitchell's, and Correnshigo across in Armagh). Some would argue Ballyholland merits being a Newry team now. Not saying we need to amalgamate all the clubs, but it is interesting to observe.

Soccer also seems to be very popular in the town at the minute. Nothing wrong with soccer, but important to ensure Gaelic Games evolve and remain as relevant and as attractive as Newry City AFC.


ranch

Quote from: Splash on November 17, 2023, 11:58:13 PMSpeaking to a Mitchell's man recently. Says it looks like the club won't be lining out this year. Hardly a surprise, but awful pity.

What on Earth went wrong with Newry Mitchell's? 

Hard to know where the club can go from here. Ideally would be hoping to get to the level of Magherlin or Aghaderg if they do manage to pull it together?

Where could they get players from? In theory, Chapel Street/Courtney Hill/High Street part of the town? Problem is competing with Shamrocks and Ballyholland.

How does a fella in Newry choose whether he is Mitchell's or Shamrocks? Assuming the generic 'because his dad played for them' but how did we end up with two teams in the same small area?

Interesting how most ppl in the town over a certain age, seem to be Mitchell's men, whilst those under that age seem to be Shamrocks. Don't ask me what age that is, but it definitely seems that Shamrocks have dominance in the youth scene, which is no surprise given the Mitchell's not even fielding underage teams.

When did the shift happen? How did Shamrocks become a competitive intermediate club in both codes playing out of the county grounds whilst Mitchell's went from SFC Champions to what they are now?

Hope Mitchell's come back. Hope they field this year. Terror to see any club in the position they find themselves in.

Worth mentioning, there doesn't seem to be a great Gaelic Games scene in Newry at the moment. This needs to be addressed. I'm a big proponent of tapping into North Down, but we mustn't forget the likes of Newry at the same time. 

Is it worth noting that Newcastle and Downpatrick both have one team (Bryansford and RGU respectively), whilst Newry has 4 (Shamrocks, Bosco, Mitchell's, and Correnshigo across in Armagh). Some would argue Ballyholland merits being a Newry team now. Not saying we need to amalgamate all the clubs, but it is interesting to observe.

Soccer also seems to be very popular in the town at the minute. Nothing wrong with soccer, but important to ensure Gaelic Games evolve and remain as relevant and as attractive as Newry City AFC.



As you said, the problem for the Mitchels seems to be the lack of any real catchment area. The Shamrocks have basically taken over that part of the town and there's no room for the Mitchels whatsoever. Bosco have the other side of the town covered, the Armagh Road/Meadow (St Joseph's Convent PS/St. Patrick's Meadow PS), and Corrinshego historically get a lot of players from the Barcroft/Carnagat/ Drumalane areas (St. Malachy's PS catchment area). They're also benefitting from the west side of the town getting a lot more new housing developments which is helping to keep their underage scene going. In addition they have the area around Corrinshego itself where the old club house used to be, which was always their core base for players. Mitchel's never had an area as such.

Soccer is also popular, that's true. However, I don't think it can be used as an adequate excuse. Lurgan is a town of roughly the same size and has as many distractions as Newry, along with a significantly larger Unionist/Loyalist population. However they're able to maintain 3 clubs in the Armagh senior championship, and one who reached 3 of the past 4 intermediate finals. This clearly benefits Armagh too. They also have a club competing in the Armagh junior hurling championship. On their outskirts they have Eire Og in Craigavon as well as Aghagallon in county Antrim and Magheralin in county Down.
The main difference in Lurgan is that the clubs have clearly defined areas where they are based and draw their players from, for example St Paul's in Taghnevan and Clann Eireann in Kilwilkie. With the Shamrocks taking over the area that the Mitchels relied on, there's no space for them to survive.
Less clubs isn't necessarily a bad thing for Newry and Down if it leads to better results and participation, but I don't see either happening anytime soon.

general_lee

#42005
Quote from: ranch on November 18, 2023, 01:47:20 AMSoccer is also popular, that's true. However, I don't think it can be used as an adequate excuse. Lurgan is a town of roughly the same size and has as many distractions as Newry, along with a significantly larger Unionist/Loyalist population. However they're able to maintain 3 clubs in the Armagh senior championship, and one who reached 3 of the past 4 intermediate finals. This clearly benefits Armagh too. They also have a club competing in the Armagh junior hurling championship. On their outskirts they have Eire Og in Craigavon as well as Aghagallon in county Antrim and Magheralin in county Down.
The main difference in Lurgan is that the clubs have clearly defined areas where they are based and draw their players from, for example St Paul's in Taghnevan and Clann Eireann in Kilwilkie. With the Shamrocks taking over the area that the Mitchels relied on, there's no space for them to survive.
Less clubs isn't necessarily a bad thing for Newry and Down if it leads to better results and participation, but I don't see either happening anytime soon.
The main difference is the Lurgan clubs worked their f**king socks off at youth level. There was a period not that long ago that the town had no players on the Armagh minor or senior teams and no club playing in the senior championship.

Clann √Čireann didn't win their first senior championship in 60 years by accident. Clan na Gael didn't reach a first senior final in 17 years by fluke. They both put in the hard yards at underage. St Peter's have also made a big push in recent years and have consolidated their place in senior football. St Paul's have facilities that would be the envy of most clubs in Ireland. It's just hard work from volunteers in each club. 

It's nothing to do with clearly defined boundaries. St Paul's were a breakaway club from Clan na Gael in St Paul's parish and Clann Eireann and the Peter's both cover the same catchment area of St Peter's parish - in reality though players from all clubs come from all over town.

What exactly happened Mitchels for them to end up where they are? When did they last field at underage? Maybe starting from underage is the way to go? Surely Newry is big enough to keep them?

thewobbler

#42006
Mitchels woes surrounding how and why they lost access to the now Pairc Esler pre-date me.

I'd assume what happened there, and the lack of a definable home, was likely linked to losing a cohort of quality players that would have peaked in the late 1980s like DJ Kane,  Martin Lynch and Martin Durkan

I do remember them starting again with youth teams in the mid-eighties, so I'm assuming the whole club was close to collapsing early 1980s

At that time they played their football out of the council facilities known as the Donkey Fields, which was far from luxurious but it was handy got to for hundreds of houses.

When the Donkey Fields were reclaimed by the council (late 1990s I believe) to become part of Greenbank Industrial Estate, this would have left them homeless again, only they were rehoused in what became Gerry Brown Park.

Although located perhaps only half a mile from the Donkey Fields, I'd think this was the move that condemned the Mitchels to death by a thousand cuts.

I know they were desperate for a home field, and their intentions were for the best. But because the nearest chimney pot was (and will always be) a mile away, it was impossible to generate a community spirit around the club. And because the only way to get to Gerry Brown park involved passing a GAA stadium and a soccer stadium, to arrive at a portakabin, it was always going to be difficult to attract youth players unless they'd family ties to the club.

With Shamrocks, Ballyholland and even those crafty Burren buggers laying claim to the Warrenpoint Road area, the conveyor belt slowed up then creaked, then ground to a halt.

It was obvious a decade ago that Mitchels were going to run out of players before long. It's been about 6 years since they last fielded a team at any juvenile level. And attempts to make the seniors into a style of "social football" team were always going to fail. Social footballers don't drive the length of the county on Friday evenings to play D4 football.

It's an awful shame for the committed players and administrators they've had over the years. Some great people.

The bottom line reality is you can't have a GAA club without a community to support it:

Splash

Lurgan is probably a great example to compare Newry to.

I've viewed the impact the Lurgan teams have had on Armagh as an example of what impact Bredagh, Carryduff, etc., could have on Down, but it makes a lot of sense to compare them to Newry instead. 

Don't know a heap of what goes on in Lurgan, but from craic I've heard, a lot of work has been put into the GAA scene. Know some very committed men in Newry, around Shamrocks especially. Would be great to see them results similar to what Lurgan has produced.

Simply due to the fact that a majority of new housing in Newry will be built on the west side of the town due to geographical reasons, it is worth discussing at some point how the Down clubs will benefit from this. Correnshigo will obviously benefit, but there is an argument that Bosco could benefit, too.

Very interesting insight, Wobbler. Never knew a lot of that. Mitchell's location is really not going to help them. The problem is trying to figure out where they could find a home. Majority of Mitchell's men I know come from around the High Street area. Nowhere they could really be based out of without infringing on the catchment areas of other clubs, though.

Not having an underage set up was only ever going to lead to disaster down the line. The attempts to market Mitchell's in a 'social football' style, whilst a good idea, wasn't sustainable given the situation. That take on the situation may have worked in say, East Belfast's situation. They have large numbers which makes things a lot easier. Hard to market it as 'social football' and then try and get 15 lads to travel to the far side of East Down every week (the fact that most teams the Mitchell's would be playing would be quite far away definitely doesn't help- closest team in Div 4 would be Aghaderg or Bosco if they game down?).

I'm sure it's already been looked at, but what was it that made Aughlasnfin become a competitive junior side whilst being so close to Castlewellen? Perhaps a model for the Mitchell's to follow in there?

Was said to me before that there could be a solution in bringing in fellas from say, Ballyholland, who can't commit to the demands of senior football or aren't making the senior team, but it is definitely a rabbit hole to go down trying to take players from other clubs to sustain a team.

Hope there is a solution some day. But a lot of problems to over come. The county board perhaps needs to do something to ensure the game remains popular in Newry.




Hard2Listen2

Some great posts above about the need for investment in juvenile football (time & effort more so than simply financial although that always helps!).

The community aspect is also critical.
Kids have to want to emulate their heroes they see every week in a club jersey.

There have been a good few discussions about the need for rural clubs to amalgamate in order to thrive but here we are talking about an urban area that probably can't sustain the number of clubs it has.
Hard to know the solution in either scenario.

Ed Hardy

Any word on Odhran Murdock? Couldn't blame the fella for having a go at professional sports and best of luck to him if he goes, just noticed a lot of AFL clubs heading for preseason soon and no mention of him signing for anyone. Some boost if he stays.

ranch

Quote from: Splash on November 18, 2023, 06:00:07 PMLurgan is probably a great example to compare Newry to.

I've viewed the impact the Lurgan teams have had on Armagh as an example of what impact Bredagh, Carryduff, etc., could have on Down, but it makes a lot of sense to compare them to Newry instead. 

Don't know a heap of what goes on in Lurgan, but from craic I've heard, a lot of work has been put into the GAA scene. Know some very committed men in Newry, around Shamrocks especially. Would be great to see them results similar to what Lurgan has produced.

Simply due to the fact that a majority of new housing in Newry will be built on the west side of the town due to geographical reasons, it is worth discussing at some point how the Down clubs will benefit from this. Correnshigo will obviously benefit, but there is an argument that Bosco could benefit, too.

Very interesting insight, Wobbler. Never knew a lot of that. Mitchell's location is really not going to help them. The problem is trying to figure out where they could find a home. Majority of Mitchell's men I know come from around the High Street area. Nowhere they could really be based out of without infringing on the catchment areas of other clubs, though.

Not having an underage set up was only ever going to lead to disaster down the line. The attempts to market Mitchell's in a 'social football' style, whilst a good idea, wasn't sustainable given the situation. That take on the situation may have worked in say, East Belfast's situation. They have large numbers which makes things a lot easier. Hard to market it as 'social football' and then try and get 15 lads to travel to the far side of East Down every week (the fact that most teams the Mitchell's would be playing would be quite far away definitely doesn't help- closest team in Div 4 would be Aghaderg or Bosco if they game down?).

I'm sure it's already been looked at, but what was it that made Aughlasnfin become a competitive junior side whilst being so close to Castlewellen? Perhaps a model for the Mitchell's to follow in there?

Was said to me before that there could be a solution in bringing in fellas from say, Ballyholland, who can't commit to the demands of senior football or aren't making the senior team, but it is definitely a rabbit hole to go down trying to take players from other clubs to sustain a team.

Hope there is a solution some day. But a lot of problems to over come. The county board perhaps needs to do something to ensure the game remains popular in Newry.


An increase in housing being in west Newry may benefit Bosco in addition to Corrinshego, but you'll also have clubs like Carrickcruppen, Killeavy and Shane O'Neills who will do their best to get involved. It'll be hard for Down to get the benefit that they may have if it was on the other side of Newry.

As for the Mitchels, it's pretty clear from Wobbler's post where the problems have stemmed from. As a small club without a community to call their own they were always going to struggle. The difference with a small club like Corrinshego was that underage football always survived despite the struggles of the senior team, mainly due to having a clear catchment area. Bosco also have a similar advantage.

Soccer is regularly blamed for its impact, but Lurgan is a pretty big soccer town too. How is it that Newry is so different?

johnnycool

Sad news this morning with the breaking news of the death of Sean McCashin, the Down Ulster Council delegate and referee.
Thoughts and prayers for his family and friends.
He's been a member of our club the last few years.

RIP Sean.

manwithnoplan

Quote from: johnnycool on November 19, 2023, 11:06:30 AMSad news this morning with the breaking news of the death of Sean McCashin, the Down Ulster Council delegate and referee.
Thoughts and prayers for his family and friends.
He's been a member of our club the last few years.

RIP Sean.

RIP Sean. That was a man truly dedicated to Down GAA.

downtothecore

Sean was great servant to gaa in down. He will be badly missed. RIP

ck

Quote from: Nanderson on November 17, 2023, 09:49:47 PM
Quote from: ck on November 17, 2023, 09:30:50 PM
Quote from: Hard2Listen2 on November 17, 2023, 07:43:07 PM
Quote from: skat man on November 17, 2023, 01:57:51 PMare all management teams now in place ?


Kilcoo?
Burren?
Warrenpoint?
Rostrevor?
Saval?

Did Lacey get the sack?
Think hes with Jim in Donegal setup next year

McGuinness interviewed over weekend and said Lacey will not be part of his backroom team.
So has he been sacked from Kilcoo or what?