Is FF gone as a party?

[macker15]

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/p...njKtmUu487QWjU

[RedHand88]

I mean, they've got the Taoiseach job, so they've doing somewhat ok.

[6th sam]

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/p...njKtmUu487QWjU

Be interested in views of FF supporters on this .
As a "northerner" I find it Interesting that FF's dramatic regression has coincided with partitionist leaders out of touch with the United Ireland origins of the party.  With economic policies being similar, What separated FF leaders from
FG leaders was their vocal commitment to a United ireland . Bertie, Charlie, Albert had their faults but they were perceived to have an affinity with the Irish in the north . Micheál Martin (and Tbf all FG taoisigh ) never appeared to have that affinity . Thus many of the more republican FF supporters moved over to SF ? Thus Micheál's unhealthy obsession with SF.

[Itchy]

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/p...njKtmUu487QWjU

Be interested in views of FF supporters on this .
As a "northerner" I find it Interesting that FF's dramatic regression has coincided with partitionist leaders out of touch with the United Ireland origins of the party.  With economic policies being similar, What separated FF leaders from
FG leaders was their vocal commitment to a United ireland . Bertie, Charlie, Albert had their faults but they were perceived to have an affinity with the Irish in the north . Micheál Martin (and Tbf all FG taoisigh ) never appeared to have that affinity . Thus many of the more republican FF supporters moved over to SF ? Thus Micheál's unhealthy obsession with SF.

Most FF supporters these days wouldnt even openly admit it.

[Tubberman]

It's looking more likely that FF is slowly disintegrating and more info is in the Irish Examiner story below.

Is it time that FF and FG merged? Because it looks like only of these two party's will be left standing.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/p...njKtmUu487QWjU

Be interested in views of FF supporters on this .
As a "northerner" I find it Interesting that FF's dramatic regression has coincided with partitionist leaders out of touch with the United Ireland origins of the party.  With economic policies being similar, What separated FF leaders from
FG leaders was their vocal commitment to a United ireland . Bertie, Charlie, Albert had their faults but they were perceived to have an affinity with the Irish in the north . Micheál Martin (and Tbf all FG taoisigh ) never appeared to have that affinity . Thus many of the more republican FF supporters moved over to SF ? Thus Micheál's unhealthy obsession with SF.

I think FFs role in the financial crisis is the main reason. A lot of people lost jobs, businesses, homes, emigrated, and they blame FF for that.
Also, the party's TDs are mainly late middle-aged rural men, not an appealing prospect for young or urban voters.
UI doesn't come into it at all really IMO.

[seafoid]

SF and to a lesser extent FG now own FF votes.
SF would need to fail in Government for FF to rise again. Eg if the economy collapsed and SF were
revealed to be incompetent. Voters don't like losing their savings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih9m0WvAwFo

[Rossfan]

Tubberman is spot on.
The North has little to do with how most in the 26 Vote.
The 14% new voters SF gained between May 19 and Feb 20 were mainly a dissatisfied 2 fingers to the establishment younger cohort.
FF are still the Builders party going by the Housing Minister's proposed new Legislation.
They may survive as the kingmakers in Coalitions if they can maintain 15 to 20 seats.

[Lar Naparka]

Fiana Fail is a busted flush and unless the party can re-radicilse itself and create a new identity, it's future is far from certain. The party had been associated with graft and corruption since the days of Charlie Haughey and the public have been getting more disillusioned over the years since then.
IMO, Martin seems to be a decent man but he lacks mass appeal and it's obvious the party is wrecked with plots and counterplots.  Leo is a far more polished operator and is beating Martin out of sights in all manners of opinion polls.
Unless Martin gets an extraordinary stroke of luck with, say, control of the virus or a breakthrough with the Peace process, FF could be holding their AGMs in a phone booth.
I personally like MLMD but I don't think SF is anywhere near becoming the dominant force in the republic- not yet anyway.
Coming into the last GF, they were lagging well behind in the opinion polls. They did very well because FFG was useless. Homelessness was the issue that concerned the people most  while Leo thought he was wowing the electorate by having lots of photos taken with Boris and Merkel and the likes.
But right now, FG and SF are neck and neck in opinion polls. In the last Red C poll (Sunday Business Post) both are on 32% with FF on 14%. (IIRC)
Brexit was far too abstract for most people but a photo of a small child eating his dinner off the pavement in O'Connell Street was something else. I think FG deserved to lose that election because they had gotten out of touch with the general public. Fianna Fail was tarred with the same brush because of the confidence and supply pact with FG and Martin wasn't adroit enough to see disaster coming and dissociate from FG before the election was upon them.
FF's glory days are over.

[6th sam]

Cheers lads , fair and helpful analysis .
Interesting days ahead

[grounded]

Fiana Fail is a busted flush and unless the party can re-radicilse itself and create a new identity, it's future is far from certain. The party had been associated with graft and corruption since the days of Charlie Haughey and the public have been getting more disillusioned over the years since then.
IMO, Martin seems to be a decent man but he lacks mass appeal and it's obvious the party is wrecked with plots and counterplots.  Leo is a far more polished operator and is beating Martin out of sights in all manners of opinion polls.
Unless Martin gets an extraordinary stroke of luck with, say, control of the virus or a breakthrough with the Peace process, FF could be holding their AGMs in a phone booth.
I personally like MLMD but I don't think SF is anywhere near becoming the dominant force in the republic- not yet anyway.
Coming into the last GF, they were lagging well behind in the opinion polls. They did very well because FFG was useless. Homelessness was the issue that concerned the people most  while Leo thought he was wowing the electorate by having lots of photos taken with Boris and Merkel and the likes.
But right now, FG and SF are neck and neck in opinion polls. In the last Red C poll (Sunday Business Post) both are on 32% with FF on 14%. (IIRC)
Brexit was far too abstract for most people but a photo of a small child eating his dinner off the pavement in O'Connell Street was something else. I think FG deserved to lose that election because they had gotten out of touch with the general public. Fianna Fail was tarred with the same brush because of the confidence and supply pact with FG and Martin wasn't adroit enough to see disaster coming and dissociate from FG before the election was upon them.
FF's glory days are over.

Agree with most of that. Given that both fg and ff are ideologically broadly centre-right parties will they merge?
      Appreciate that historically they hate each other's guts but given their recent co-operation in C&S deal is it a runner?
      Not to derail the thread but what has happened to the labour party since 2011? Surely they should be sweeping up those voters dissatisfied with the mainstream parties and provide a genuine left wing opposition. Has Sinn Fein's rise and some of the other smaller parties been at their expense?
        In many ways the South's political machinations are much more complicated than most political systems in western Europe.
       

[ardtole]

The social democrats are likely to increase their vote and seats at the next election. They have a few impressive tds and id expect them do well in future.

If the sdlp were to align themselves with a 26 county party, the Social Democrats would be a better fit than either ff or fg.

[mouview]

Fiana Fail is a busted flush and unless the party can re-radicilse itself and create a new identity, it's future is far from certain. The party had been associated with graft and corruption since the days of Charlie Haughey and the public have been getting more disillusioned over the years since then.
IMO, Martin seems to be a decent man but he lacks mass appeal and it's obvious the party is wrecked with plots and counterplots.  Leo is a far more polished operator and is beating Martin out of sights in all manners of opinion polls.
Unless Martin gets an extraordinary stroke of luck with, say, control of the virus or a breakthrough with the Peace process, FF could be holding their AGMs in a phone booth.
I personally like MLMD but I don't think SF is anywhere near becoming the dominant force in the republic- not yet anyway.
Coming into the last GF, they were lagging well behind in the opinion polls. They did very well because FFG was useless. Homelessness was the issue that concerned the people most  while Leo thought he was wowing the electorate by having lots of photos taken with Boris and Merkel and the likes.
But right now, FG and SF are neck and neck in opinion polls. In the last Red C poll (Sunday Business Post) both are on 32% with FF on 14%. (IIRC)
Brexit was far too abstract for most people but a photo of a small child eating his dinner off the pavement in O'Connell Street was something else. I think FG deserved to lose that election because they had gotten out of touch with the general public. Fianna Fail was tarred with the same brush because of the confidence and supply pact with FG and Martin wasn't adroit enough to see disaster coming and dissociate from FG before the election was upon them.
FF's glory days are over.

As Seafoid says, people don't like losing their savings. They can be just as quick however to forget how FG restored the country's fortunes, coming as they were from a very low ebb. I 've always held the opinion that the housing crisis is a red herring to some extent; a lot of the problem is that the section of the community that are allocated social housing don't respect what they're given, trash it, and expect another handout. That can only last so long. People in this country simply have to take more responsibility for their own well-being and not be reliant on wall-to-wall state assistance.

[Rossfan]

Maybe but a large group of younger folk especially in cities/big towns and Eastern Counties cannot afford to buy houses.
FG with FF C&S made little effort to help that cohort by expecting private  sector builders and landlords to sort out a societal issue.
Once the public finances had been stabilised from 2015 onwards they could have been implementing sone kind of affordable housing schemes, tenant purchase schemes etc but they just sat back and ignored the issue.

[Lar Naparka]

Fiana Fail is a busted flush and unless the party can re-radicilse itself and create a new identity, it's future is far from certain. The party had been associated with graft and corruption since the days of Charlie Haughey and the public have been getting more disillusioned over the years since then.
IMO, Martin seems to be a decent man but he lacks mass appeal and it's obvious the party is wrecked with plots and counterplots.  Leo is a far more polished operator and is beating Martin out of sights in all manners of opinion polls.
Unless Martin gets an extraordinary stroke of luck with, say, control of the virus or a breakthrough with the Peace process, FF could be holding their AGMs in a phone booth.
I personally like MLMD but I don't think SF is anywhere near becoming the dominant force in the republic- not yet anyway.
Coming into the last GF, they were lagging well behind in the opinion polls. They did very well because FFG was useless. Homelessness was the issue that concerned the people most  while Leo thought he was wowing the electorate by having lots of photos taken with Boris and Merkel and the likes.
But right now, FG and SF are neck and neck in opinion polls. In the last Red C poll (Sunday Business Post) both are on 32% with FF on 14%. (IIRC)
Brexit was far too abstract for most people but a photo of a small child eating his dinner off the pavement in O'Connell Street was something else. I think FG deserved to lose that election because they had gotten out of touch with the general public. Fianna Fail was tarred with the same brush because of the confidence and supply pact with FG and Martin wasn't adroit enough to see disaster coming and dissociate from FG before the election was upon them.
FF's glory days are over.

As Seafoid says, people don't like losing their savings. They can be just as quick however to forget how FG restored the country's fortunes, coming as they were from a very low ebb. I 've always held the opinion that the housing crisis is a red herring to some extent; a lot of the problem is that the section of the community that are allocated social housing don't respect what they're given, trash it, and expect another handout. That can only last so long. People in this country simply have to take more responsibility for their own well-being and not be reliant on wall-to-wall state assistance.

You justr cannot be serious! The sight of little Aaron, a five year old, having to eat his dinner off a pavement in Dublin cost FG thousands of votes.  There wasn't a shred of concern for the homeless and FG had a totally ineffectual mimistert, Eoghan Murphy, who was losing hands down to the Sinn Fein spokesman on houising.
I mean alll this happened in the very recent past  and there's any amount of links you can reference.
The aspersions you cast on the homeless are without foundation- if you google a few reports in any half decent   newspaper, you won't have to trawl far to get the truth.
FG did not cause the homeless situation in the fierst place. There had been a lack of social housing for years before they took over but, by God, they made a bad situation much worse.
And another thing, the oul' platitude that FG was always ready to do their public duty and were ever ready to step in and restore the country's finances after a spell of FF mismanagement at the helm doesn't stand up to scrutiny because every time they succeeded FF in government they got dumped on their arses next time around!
Enda was the first FG taoiseach to win a second time in ofice.

[Lar Naparka]

Maybe but a large group of younger folk especially in cities/big towns and Eastern Counties cannot afford to buy houses.
FG with FF C&S made little effort to help that cohort by expecting private  sector builders and landlords to sort out a societal issue.
Once the public finances had been stabilised from 2015 onwards they could have been implementing sone kind of affordable housing schemes, tenant purchase schemes etc but they just sat back and ignored the issue.

100% Ross!
Public memory cannot be that short.