Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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trailer

Quote from: naka on November 15, 2018, 12:06:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 15, 2018, 11:22:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2018, 10:47:41 AM
If there is a Westminster GE can SF and SDLP please put aside their differences and not run against each other in South and North Belfast?

I think electoral pacts don't help.
Anyway, SF have their tails up from their last electoral success and they've spent years registering voters so unlikely to agree a pact.
Trailer not being divisive but their vote fell in the general elections and the dup moved to 10 seats,
The shinners need to assist Hermin in north down because she is a clear remainer ( if I recall she was originally a lecturer in European law in Queens in the late 80s)
South Belfast went to little, Robinson did long , north Belfast remained with Dodds,
If the 3 remainer  parties stepped out for 3 neutral candidates it would be seen as doing a great service to their community .

I totally agree. And trust me I am no fan of SF, but I can't see SF stepping aside for and SDLP candidate or Alliance.

Keyser soze

There has been a lot of whooping and hollering from nationalists and republicans, and indeed sundry others [not so much on here but on SM generally] about the Dup getting egg on their face [laughable and richly deserved as that is] and that there is an inevitability about this process leading to a UI.

I would caution anyone to get too cockahoop about any of the outcomes of Brexit as regards how it will affect the north. The outworkings of any scenario - no deal, hard deal, soft deal or remain - are far too complicated to predict how this may pan out with regard to reunification. Any or all of these could lead to a UI becoming more likely but could equally cement NI's place in the UK. The results of this may not be seen for many years.

trailer

Quote from: Keyser soze on November 15, 2018, 01:09:48 PM
There has been a lot of whooping and hollering from nationalists and republicans, and indeed sundry others [not so much on here but on SM generally] about the Dup getting egg on their face [laughable and richly deserved as that is] and that there is an inevitability about this process leading to a UI.

I would caution anyone to get too cockahoop about any of the outcomes of Brexit as regards how it will affect the north. The outworkings of any scenario - no deal, hard deal, soft deal or remain - are far too complicated to predict how this may pan out with regard to reunification. Any or all of these could lead to a UI becoming more likely but could equally cement NI's place in the UK. The results of this may not be seen for many years.

Good post. There is a lot more hurling to be played.

Shamrock Shore

QuoteBrexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Finally - Brexit makes sense to me  ;D

seafoid

Today I have a dose of the flu so I had to stay at home. I had a few Minutes to read about Brexit

Brexit 14 Nov
Sardonic old Ken Clarke had the best last line today: "I wish the prime minister well in obtaining a majority for some course of action that is in the national interest."

John Harris

@johnharris1969

The Tory Party is breaking Britain, & in the process, it is breaking itself. The gravity of this gets lost in the social media age, but this is as historic as politics gets in peacetime.

Steve Analyst

@EmporersNewC
·
2h

Dear PM,

The negotiated technical details of the deal do not match the vague political slogans you've been using.

Therefore I resign.


David Allen Green

@davidallengreen

Replying to
@davidallengreen
and
@JohnnyPixels
They should have supported transparency and accountability when it mattered.

They have only got themselves to blame for where government policy is now.

They have got the Brexit they deserve.



Gary Morgan

@garyballboy
·
7m

Replying to
@johnharris1969
irony is that the constituency that declares the union precious will be its inevitable demolisher
David Allen Green

@davidallengreen
·
7s

Dominic Raab, a solicitor, has spent months negotiating an 500 highly complex legal instrument...and *then* resigns?

The fool.

Tom Hamilton

@thhamilton

What if - just hear me out here - what if Theresa May's Brexit deal is both a bad deal and the best possible deal?

David Allen Green

@davidallengreen
·
2m

Not Magna Carta, not the Bill of Rights, nor the Acts of Union.

The Good Friday Agreement is now the foundational document of the UK constitution, to which any other instrument must yield.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hhesterm/status/1062969834844098561

David Allen Green

@davidallengreen
·
18m

Like many lawyers, this ain't the first 500 page legal document.

Any comments at this stage, even after the first read-through, by *anybody* will still be superficial.

Too much to digest too quickly.

Jess Phillips

@jessphillips
·
5m

We've got to find a way to be kind in our communities as Brexit unravels. We mustn't think that the incivility on here is playing out on our streets, and we should do all we can to stop that. My constituents don't all agree but manage discourse well. We should all try.



Anna Soubry MP

@Anna_Soubry
·
40m

Raab's resignation marks the end of PMs Withdrawal Agreement. This is v serious the PM will clearly be considering her position. My own view is that we need a Govt of National Unity and we need it now.


Robert Harris

@Robert___Harris
·
8m

No group of politicians has done more damage to this country than the 50 or so hardline Tory Brexiteers. They have infected the UK with their poison, concealed their real aims, evaded all responsibility, & now knife their own leader for failing to deliver their fantasy

an Birrell

@ianbirrell
·
2m

Even if this is true - and it is not entirely correct since they did participate in the discussions - they knew their role in providing cover for what has turned out to be, inevitably, a hopeless deal. It does not excuse their mendacity
Quote Tweet
Andrew Neil

@afneil
I think the truth is, strange as it may seem, that he didn't negotiate it, nor did David Davis before him. This is an Agreement largely cooked in the Cabinet Office/Downing Street.

Will Hutton

@williamnhutton
·
Nov 14

Every member of the Labour party should be shamed that the most cogent argument v. Mrs May's deal is from Jo Johnson. Keir Starmer would make it if he could. But his leader's lack of leadership and europhobe instincts block him. A tragic disgrace that he leads this great party.

suzanne moore liked


Irvine Welsh

@IrvineWelsh
·
4m

I love the way that political commentators go on in doom-laden tones about how 'serious' cabinet resignations are. The public knows from experience that you simply send in the next set of inept, overprivileged, self-serving wankers.

Like there's a shortage of them in politics.


Simon Kuper

@KuperSimon
·
13m

Watching the Brexiters savage real existing Brexit may be the funniest thing I have seen in British politics in my lifetime. Brexit surely died today



David Allen Green

@davidallengreen
·
2m

Not a single politician who clapped and cheered when the Prime Minister sent the Article 50 notification has so far supported the Withdrawal Agreement, the direct and natural consequence of that premature notification.

Not one.

Labour's Luciana Berger says the deal is not in the national interest. A YouGov poll shows 63% of people opposed, and 64% in favour of a people's vote.
May suggests she is surprised, since the 500-page text of the deal was only published last night.

Labour's Phil Wilson asks May if she can say, "hand on heart", that this deal is better than what the UK has now.
May says she firmly believes the UK's best days are ahead.
UPDATE: This is from Labour's Pat McFadden.
Pat McFadden
(@patmcfaddenmp)
The most telling reply of the day - the tacit admission that this deal makes us worse off. https://t.co/MaPrMpmIfW



Lionel Barber

@lionelbarber
·
25m

First the attack on experts, now the onslaught on the civil service for betraying the will of the people.  Reality is that Brexiters promised fantasy land of easy exit and instant free trade deals....‪#Brexit‬ ‪#Raabsignation‬

robert shrimsley

@robertshrimsley
·
1h

Wrote a month ago that Brexiteers were now the  greatest threat to Brexit. Feels even more true now

Tom Wright

@thomaswright08

Waking up to extraordinary news from London. Five ministers resign over the Brexit deal, May's government in crisis, pound tumbling, and general chaos about what happens now.

David Allen Green

@davidallengreen
·
42s

After all this noise and drama is over, there is on a table the draft Withdrawal Agreement, offering the EU's terms.

Either that is agreed or it is not.

UK politicians venting frustration and dissatisfaction does not change that brute fact.


Rory Bremner

@rorybremner

Vote Leave founders left before the vote. Farage the day after. Boris, Gove, Leadsom bottled leadership race, Davis quit, Boris quit, Baker quit and now Raab. To be fair, we still have those giants Chris Grayling & Liam Fox in Cabinet.


Misha Glenny

@MishaGlenny
·
2m

Fox still believes that mighty free-trade zone between the UK, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, based on shared values, still a possibility. Throw in a bucket of chlorinated chicken and this could be the answer to our prayers.

Lionel Barber liked


David Aaronovitch

@DAaronovitch
·
Nov 14

It never ceases to amaze me that the voters of Northern Ireland, who voted to Remain in 2016, are represented either by the Total War Brexiteers of the DUP or the Absentee-on-purpose-and-therefore-useless Sinn Fein. As Trump would say, sad.



Lionel Laurent

@LionelRALaurent
·
1h

Theresa May still peddling the line that a second referendum is what happens in banana republics. She calls it a "go back and think again" vote. I love the idea of quiet reflection being seen as more toxic to British politics than clear self-harm.

Tim Atkin liked


Damon Evans

@damocrat
·
22h

Gammon woman at Leave Means Leave protest being interviewed on LBC a minute ago.

"There will be riots and civil war if we don't get our Brexit!"

Imagine hating the EU so much that you're prepared to raze your country to ground to leave it. These people are f**king imbeciles.


Alex Andreou

@sturdyAlex

Remainers must be v careful not to adopt hard Brexiter narrative that May struck a bad deal. There's no magical good hard Brexit. The PM is actually right: her deal is as good as hard Brexit gets. The issue is not her deal; the issue is that what Leave promised is undeliverable.

Ken Clarke

@MrKennethClarke
·
20h

Nigel Farage is the worst politician in history.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-11-15/theresa-may-s-brexit-deal-is-not-the-answer?utm_content=brexit&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

The terms of May's deal prove the folly of the whole endeavor. Support for Brexit in the referendum of 2016 was narrow; for months, emerging details about what quitting the EU would mean have been changing minds. May and her cabinet have kept going regardless. This sleepwalking to disaster needs to end. Parliament should reject the plan, and, with or without May as prime minister, press for a second referendum to reverse this historic error.


Few dispute that May's deal would damage the economy, in particular by removing services (by far the country's biggest economic sector) from Europe's single market. It would also burden businesses of all kinds with persistent uncertainty, by leaving longer-term trading arrangements with Europe unsettled. To justify these and other losses, Brexit supporters had hoped for greater control over the country's affairs — but the deal provides the opposite. Even limited membership of the single market, which the agreement includes, involves EU control across a wide range of policy — and after March next year, Britain would lose its say in what those policies should be.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Franko

Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 15, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
The Brexit minister Raab has resigned.
It is rather alarming that he is using NI as an excuse, rather than his own stupidity.

The Tory party is going to tear itself apart

But what's going to fill the vacuum? Impossible to see it being Labour under Corbyn. Will a new centre-right group emerge?

According to Luciana Berger MP ,a new poll suggests 63% want a second vote. Corbyn doesn't. If he gets in the way he might be shafted. Labour would walk a GE.

Brexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Would have agreed with this a few months back but now I'm not so sure.  Since he won the leadership, every fibre of me is willing Corbyn to do well as I feel he is a decent man.  But I now get the feeling that he's happy to let the UK go to ruin with a no deal Brexit so he can step in and rebuild it his way.  I'm afraid that's not something I could support.

And like I say, I started out as a fan.

seafoid

Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 15, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
The Brexit minister Raab has resigned.
It is rather alarming that he is using NI as an excuse, rather than his own stupidity.

The Tory party is going to tear itself apart

But what's going to fill the vacuum? Impossible to see it being Labour under Corbyn. Will a new centre-right group emerge?

According to Luciana Berger MP ,a new poll suggests 63% want a second vote. Corbyn doesn't. If he gets in the way he might be shafted. Labour would walk a GE.

Brexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Would have agreed with this a few months back but now I'm not so sure.  Since he won the leadership, every fibre of me is willing Corbyn to do well as I feel he is a decent man.  But I now get the feeling that he's happy to let the UK go to ruin with a no deal Brexit so he can step in and rebuild it his way.  I'm afraid that's not something I could support.

And like I say, I started out as a fan.
Same here. I don't think he is the man for now
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Tony Baloney

Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 15, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
The Brexit minister Raab has resigned.
It is rather alarming that he is using NI as an excuse, rather than his own stupidity.

The Tory party is going to tear itself apart

But what's going to fill the vacuum? Impossible to see it being Labour under Corbyn. Will a new centre-right group emerge?

According to Luciana Berger MP ,a new poll suggests 63% want a second vote. Corbyn doesn't. If he gets in the way he might be shafted. Labour would walk a GE.

Brexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Would have agreed with this a few months back but now I'm not so sure.  Since he won the leadership, every fibre of me is willing Corbyn to do well as I feel he is a decent man.  But I now get the feeling that he's happy to let the UK go to ruin with a no deal Brexit so he can step in and rebuild it his way.  I'm afraid that's not something I could support.

And like I say, I started out as a fan.
Same here. I don't think he is the man for now
Concur with you and Franko on this. I wouldn't be a fan of radical socialism but I think he inherently is decent, but I also believe he is massively out of his depth when it comes to being in touch with popular opinion. If the likes of David Milliband was leading Labour now I think they would win the next GE - people are still massively fearful of Corbyn and don't believe he is a safe pair of hands.

yellowcard

Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 15, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
The Brexit minister Raab has resigned.
It is rather alarming that he is using NI as an excuse, rather than his own stupidity.

The Tory party is going to tear itself apart

But what's going to fill the vacuum? Impossible to see it being Labour under Corbyn. Will a new centre-right group emerge?

According to Luciana Berger MP ,a new poll suggests 63% want a second vote. Corbyn doesn't. If he gets in the way he might be shafted. Labour would walk a GE.

Brexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Would have agreed with this a few months back but now I'm not so sure.  Since he won the leadership, every fibre of me is willing Corbyn to do well as I feel he is a decent man.  But I now get the feeling that he's happy to let the UK go to ruin with a no deal Brexit so he can step in and rebuild it his way.  I'm afraid that's not something I could support.

And like I say, I started out as a fan.

I'd be fairly much of the same view in relation to Corbyn. He is in politics for all the right reasons but is he the man that is going to guard against the economic catastrophe that would ensue follwoing a no deal? I don't think so.

Sheugh Water

Quote from: yellowcard on November 15, 2018, 01:53:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 15, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
The Brexit minister Raab has resigned.
It is rather alarming that he is using NI as an excuse, rather than his own stupidity.

The Tory party is going to tear itself apart

But what's going to fill the vacuum? Impossible to see it being Labour under Corbyn. Will a new centre-right group emerge?

According to Luciana Berger MP ,a new poll suggests 63% want a second vote. Corbyn doesn't. If he gets in the way he might be shafted. Labour would walk a GE.

Brexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Would have agreed with this a few months back but now I'm not so sure.  Since he won the leadership, every fibre of me is willing Corbyn to do well as I feel he is a decent man.  But I now get the feeling that he's happy to let the UK go to ruin with a no deal Brexit so he can step in and rebuild it his way.  I'm afraid that's not something I could support.

And like I say, I started out as a fan.

I'd be fairly much of the same view in relation to Corbyn. He is in politics for all the right reasons but is he the man that is going to guard against the economic catastrophe that would ensue follwoing a no deal? I don't think so.

All we need to know about Corbyn is that he doesn't care at all about Ireland

yellowcard

Mogg now stating that he has no interest in being the leader. Not a bit of wonder! He doesn't want the responsibility of actually having to put his name to anything.

Like so many hard line Brexiteer's he is just another imperialist fantasist who still see's the UK as a superpower. Yet has no solutions to offer any solutions himself other than to express outrage.

These hard Tory Brexiteers and DUPers have been getting round the clock media coverage over the last couple of days and have whipped up some of the public into an outrage. They are still trying to sell falsehoods and lies by insinuating that a much better deal could have been obtained from the EU. It's easy to be a hurler on the ditch like Mogg, Johnson and Farage but then run away and abdicate yourself of any responsibility for the mess that ensues. I actually feel a degree of sympathy for Theresa May who is in an impossible position when the real architects of this whole mess are in fact the aforementioned trio.   

Walter Cronc

Quote from: Sheugh Water on November 15, 2018, 02:08:00 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on November 15, 2018, 01:53:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on November 15, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: mouview on November 15, 2018, 11:39:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
The Brexit minister Raab has resigned.
It is rather alarming that he is using NI as an excuse, rather than his own stupidity.

The Tory party is going to tear itself apart

But what's going to fill the vacuum? Impossible to see it being Labour under Corbyn. Will a new centre-right group emerge?

According to Luciana Berger MP ,a new poll suggests 63% want a second vote. Corbyn doesn't. If he gets in the way he might be shafted. Labour would walk a GE.

Brexit as a process is like the « new GAA manager for a struggling county «
model. New hope, some of it unrealistic builds up. There might be an O Byrne cup win. Eventually the model meets reality. A hammering in Croke Park.

Would have agreed with this a few months back but now I'm not so sure.  Since he won the leadership, every fibre of me is willing Corbyn to do well as I feel he is a decent man.  But I now get the feeling that he's happy to let the UK go to ruin with a no deal Brexit so he can step in and rebuild it his way.  I'm afraid that's not something I could support.

And like I say, I started out as a fan.

I'd be fairly much of the same view in relation to Corbyn. He is in politics for all the right reasons but is he the man that is going to guard against the economic catastrophe that would ensue follwoing a no deal? I don't think so.

All we need to know about Corbyn is that he doesn't care at all about Ireland

Are you drinking that water!

heganboy

I'm still of the opinion that there will not be a Brexit.

That would however require an electorate who could differentiate their own best interest from that of their elected representatives.

That's always been a tough ask.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity


seafoid

Quote from: heganboy on November 15, 2018, 02:16:50 PM
I'm still of the opinion that there will not be a Brexit.

That would however require an electorate who could differentiate their own best interest from that of their elected representatives.

That's always been a tough ask.
I would say it was a 3 way choice last night - deal/no deal/stay
But today deal looks dead in the water so it is no deal/ stay
There is a lot of politics to come
No deal is lunatic
And st Patrick's day is a good bit away
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU