Ulster Under 21 Football Club Championship (at Creggan)

[ck]

Bullshit. Teams good enough to win their county championships really look forward to it. A good competition and very well organised.

Try to see past the end of your nose for a second. Players "really looking forward to it" has nothing to do with it.
The issue is the 17 - 21 age group participating in way to many competitions. The elite players in this age group are the vulnerable ones. Many of these players will be serving many masters which is a key contributor to burnout! The bigger picture is an important one and will be discarded by those who are only interested in short term gains.

[bannside]

I get it that the elite players are the vulnerable ones. They will be playing Mc Rory/Mc Larnon or at university with other elite players. Or on County minor/U21/senior squads (with other elite players) who are heavy in pre season prep.

That's too bad but club comes first. Take the average club player in the 17-21 bracket, for them this is the ultimate. This is their big stage and for them this is as good as it gets.

Promoting elitism versus the average club player is already a problem in our calendar.  Take off your blinkers and see the bigger picture.

[DuffleKing]

I could see your argument if these were official competitions but they are makey upy tournaments organised for selfish financial reasons. If there was merit in them they'd be officially organised through the normal channels but people with the bigger picture in mind understand there is no benefit or place for this.

I could invent a "the real real u19 ulster competition" in 2016 and invite last year's minor winners. Idiot clubs would lock their players away for 6 months for that too and prepare as if it were the all ireland championship. pure nonsense. The ultimate. give me a break.

[lenny]

I get it that the elite players are the vulnerable ones. They will be playing Mc Rory/Mc Larnon or at university with other elite players. Or on County minor/U21/senior squads (with other elite players) who are heavy in pre season prep.

That's too bad but club comes first. Take the average club player in the 17-21 bracket, for them this is the ultimate. This is their big stage and for them this is as good as it gets.

Promoting elitism versus the average club player is already a problem in our calendar.  Take off your blinkers and see the bigger picture.

I see your point and no doubt it's nice to test yourself against the best in Ulster. The problem is that these competitions drag on far too long. Take a school who have 6 or 7 players from one club who are involved in the st pauls or creggan tournament. The other boys in the school team often have to manage without those players for up to a couple of months or longer. The club can only see their bit of glory but they can't see the overall development of the player who would benefit from playing at the higher level of macrory cup football and who also misses the chance of playing with his teammates. The sigerson cup used to be played over a single weekend and was always prestigious. These tournaments could be condensed and played off over 2 weekends which would give clubs their chance of glory but also allow their players the chance to represent their schools and counties at minor and u21 level.

[bannside]

Having been to quite a few St Pauls minor, McGirr U-16 and Creggan U-21 tournaments it's clear to see how important they are to players as well as supporters. And if the hosting clubs make money from it - well done to them too.

Don't talk to me about schools competitions. If a player wants to put school football ahead of club football then there's a problem straightaway. Around South Derry there is a litany of potentially great players whose career "peaked" at school and had nothing left after the school was finished with them. Damaged goods - bad knees, cruciate damage, etc due to intense training SEVERAL times a day.

All to feed egotistical coaches who think the sporting world revolves around them.

Yes I agree all competitions should be condensed but not just the three mentioned. 

[Walter Cronc]

Whilst these underage tournaments have proved very fruitful for my own club recently I wouldn't be a huge fan. Though I do appreciate for the ordinary club player it's the ultimate so perhaps running them off over 2 weekends is the way forward.

I have a much bigger gripe with the attention and longevity of the MacRory cup. In my opinion it should be run off pre Christmas!

[Walter Cronc]

Having been to quite a few St Pauls minor, McGirr U-16 and Creggan U-21 tournaments it's clear to see how important they are to players as well as supporters. And if the hosting clubs make money from it - well done to them too.

Don't talk to me about schools competitions. If a player wants to put school football ahead of club football then there's a problem straightaway. Around South Derry there is a litany of potentially great players whose career "peaked" at school and had nothing left after the school was finished with them. Damaged goods - bad knees, cruciate damage, etc due to intense training SEVERAL times a day.

All to feed egotistical coaches who think the sporting world revolves around them.

Yes I agree all competitions should be condensed but not just the three mentioned. 

Nail on the head BS. Maghera have bullied club players in the past over the bloody McCormick Cup for god sake. The state of 'the back pitches' in Maghera is a disgrace!

[Rawhide]

If Enda had been more diplomatic is another of saying it.

I am all for compos that promote club football and puts it on the shop window, more so than the school uni compos. And agree that many many other compos including the Mac Rory should be completed pre Xmas, although where the Mageean would fit in defeats me

[PMG1]

I could see your argument if these were official competitions but they are makey upy tournaments organised for selfish financial reasons. If there was merit in them they'd be officially organised through the normal channels but people with the bigger picture in mind understand there is no benefit or place for this.

I could invent a "the real real u19 ulster competition" in 2016 and invite last year's minor winners. Idiot clubs would lock their players away for 6 months for that too and prepare as if it were the all ireland championship. pure nonsense. The ultimate. give me a break.

Excuse me DK if you were a little less lazy and had a look into the history of the Paul McGirr tournament, what and whom it represents and studied some of the wonderful work done by 'The Spirit of Paul McGirr Trust' for the less fortunate in Lusaka then I think you would agree that it is definitely not a 'makey up tournament organised for selfish financial reasons'. All proceeds go to this charity the Dromore club does not benefit in any way, in fact it costs the club to run it, not that that matters in the context of it all. By the way they are all officially recognised competitions and not to belittle anything else, club always comes first and true GAA figures would never think otherwise!

[ck]

The provincial councils refuse to endorse these "tournaments" which tells you all you need to know about whether they should take place or not. The bottom line is that there are far too many competitions in the GAA (club, schools, colleges, county, with at least 2 competitions at each level) and the same players playing in most of them.
Name another sport that operates this way. It really is crazy stuff.

[Onthe40]

Was reading in the paper yesterday that Kilcar were deprived the services of their 3 senior county men because they werent let go from a challenge game Donegal were playing in? Would be intersted to know how Kilcar folk felt about this? After all this was an Ulster club competition, and surely would be a prestigious honour for the club to win....

[Kickham csc]

Having been to quite a few St Pauls minor, McGirr U-16 and Creggan U-21 tournaments it's clear to see how important they are to players as well as supporters. And if the hosting clubs make money from it - well done to them too.

Don't talk to me about schools competitions. If a player wants to put school football ahead of club football then there's a problem straightaway. Around South Derry there is a litany of potentially great players whose career "peaked" at school and had nothing left after the school was finished with them. Damaged goods - bad knees, cruciate damage, etc due to intense training SEVERAL times a day.

All to feed egotistical coaches who think the sporting world revolves around them.

Yes I agree all competitions should be condensed but not just the three mentioned.

Are you sure about that, several times a day intense training? Several!!! think about it.

Played Macrory for 3 years never did two a days never mind several. Additionally, the school and the clubs worked really well regarding the St Pauls championship. The players trained Wednesday afternoon with the school (tactics / skills) and an arrangement was worked out for the rest of the week. And during that time MacRorys and St Paul's  championships were won

Last point about MacRory training. The league games were finished about mid to late November, whereby the real coaching started. We trained Tuesdays 45mins (30 min game followed by 10-15mins conditional) Wed afternoon (90 mins tactics, skills) Thursday was a repeat of Tuesday, and Saturday  was challenge games.

The whole training was very much game / skill based, with conditioning. The tactics side of thing was great because we had two months of working on different situations and how to react, with challenge games on a Saturday to work it out against opposition.

Since I left school, I have let to come across the same level of player development during a season

[BluestackBoy]

Was reading in the paper yesterday that Kilcar were deprived the services of their 3 senior county men because they werent let go from a challenge game Donegal were playing in? Would be intersted to know how Kilcar folk felt about this? After all this was an Ulster club competition, and surely would be a prestigious honour for the club to win....

Speaking as a Kilcar man we were disappointed as not alone were we missing the 3 senior men but Conor Doherty, a county minor, was missing as well but the feeling was that the Ulster U21 clup competition wasn't that big of a deal.

As it was the team that fielded gave a great account of themselves and were level with only 10 minutes to go before losing by 4 in the end.

Numbers wise Kilcar is a very small club & for us winning the county title in style by double scores was the big achievement.

[clarshack]

can anyone fill in the blanks for this year's county winners or even list teams still in the running?

Antrim -
Armagh -
Cavan -
Derry -
Donegal - Gweedore
Down -
Fermanagh - Not sure if Fermanagh have an u-21 championship?
Monaghan - Donaghmoyne
Tyrone - Stewartstown

[SHEEDY]

can anyone fill in the blanks for this year's county winners or even list teams still in the running?

Antrim -
Armagh -
Cavan -
Derry -
Donegal - Gweedore
Down -
Fermanagh - Not sure if Fermanagh have an u-21 championship?
Monaghan - Donaghmoyne
Tyrone - Stewartstown

down are only at semi final stage. semi finalists are warrenpoint, mayobridge, clonduff and kilcoo/carryduff.