RG at arms length

[smelmoth]

nothing t o to do with Current Row but From a football POV I'm glad hes gone . his teams have played  in a very negative manner like McGuiness he was will to destroy the game for his own Glory. and like McGuiness it could be a long time before we would see him in another management role regardless.

People say this but they usually score more than the other team.

So how can that style be negative?

Half the teams in the country now use a similar approach.
Armagh did it at the weekend.
Galway have been doing it for 2 years.
Tyrone dabble with it.
But no, they're not negative. Only the RG or Jim McGuinness teams are negative for some reason.

For me, that's a lack of understanding of a style of play.
Derry defend as 15 and attack as 15. So if we are a defensive team because we defend 15 behind the ball, then by definition we are an attacking team pushing 15 up the pitch.

I think it's you that lacks in understanding.

A team that moves the ball forward quickly by kicking it forward to try to create one on ones is an attacking team. That same team could still end up with 15 behind the ball. They may not want to but the end up doing so because of what the opposition does.

If you are playing against a team that when it wins possession it plays the ball sideways, stands still, sideways again, backwards, sideways and then incrementally forward with the only forward movement being a no risk fist pass or a solo run then they are going to edge up so slowly with 14 or 15 men that you are going to get dragged back into a packed defence. That doesn't make you a defensive team and it certainly doesn't make the team with the 14/15 forward an attacking team.

A team that when possession is conceded automatically results in a concession of territory because they immediately track back with no attempt to win the ball back high is also a defensive team. Derry are not a good watch. Nor was McGuinness' Donegal. There are other teams that are poor to watch.

But the argument that because Derry have 14 or 15 forward on occasion they are an attacking team is frankly bollocks. They are the most defensive team on the go at the moment. Though Down look at them enviously.

[marty34]

nothing t o to do with Current Row but From a football POV I'm glad hes gone . his teams have played  in a very negative manner like McGuiness he was will to destroy the game for his own Glory. and like McGuiness it could be a long time before we would see him in another management role regardless.

People say this but they usually score more than the other team.

So how can that style be negative?

Half the teams in the country now use a similar approach.
Armagh did it at the weekend.
Galway have been doing it for 2 years.
Tyrone dabble with it.
But no, they're not negative. Only the RG or Jim McGuinness teams are negative for some reason.

For me, that's a lack of understanding of a style of play.
Derry defend as 15 and attack as 15. So if we are a defensive team because we defend 15 behind the ball, then by definition we are an attacking team pushing 15 up the pitch.

I think it's you that lacks in understanding.

A team that moves the ball forward quickly by kicking it forward to try to create one on ones is an attacking team. That same team could still end up with 15 behind the ball. They may not want to but the end up doing so because of what the opposition does.

If you are playing against a team that when it wins possession it plays the ball sideways, stands still, sideways again, backwards, sideways and then incrementally forward with the only forward movement being a no risk fist pass or a solo run then they are going to edge up so slowly with 14 or 15 men that you are going to get dragged back into a packed defence. That doesn't make you a defensive team and it certainly doesn't make the team with the 14/15 forward an attacking team.

A team that when possession is conceded automatically results in a concession of territory because they immediately track back with no attempt to win the ball back high is also a defensive team. Derry are not a good watch. Nor was McGuinness' Donegal. There are other teams that are poor to watch.

But the argument that because Derry have 14 or 15 forward on occasion they are an attacking team is frankly bollocks. They are the most defensive team on the go at the moment. Though Down look at them enviously.

No. 1 Every team has 15 behind the ball.

No. 2 Derry are scoring more than the opposition.  They are not negative.

[smelmoth]

Would be really interested to see how many times they kicked the ball?
Especially kicks from defence? Kicks from turnovers? Onward kicks from short kick outs?

And then kicks into the inside forwards?

I'm sure someone has the stats but my guess is it would be one of the lowest in the country. It's a poor watch. Glass, Rodgers and McGuigan could play and excel in any team or system. Doherty excels in this system (and maybe he is better than I am giving him credit for?) and I suspect that McEvoy will blossom into a player who can excel in one on ones. There a lot of others in the team are there for their work rate that the system relies on. In terms of moments of real skill from those players they would be few enough. McKinless is teak tough and good at his job and I think I saw Cassidy on an off day.

[blasmere]

They're more pragmatic than either defensive or attacking.

Almost every team has 15 behind the ball when defending, particularly the Dubs, it's just that they had such good attackers that they get away with not being called negative.

[Wildweasel74]

I don't really care how other view Derry, we were playing Division 4, 4yrs ago and now got as many Ulster titles as:we had the previous, 30yrs. So it's carry on regardless, Derry people know there limits, No proper right sided free taker. No def man that convert 45's or long range frees. Need about 2 forwards, 1 back, plus better use of the bench. Derry underage got to 7 minor finals in 9yrs.If Meenagh stays or O'Rourke come on I think a no. Of players who dropped off the panel will be looked at it again. E Bradley and J Doherty strengthened the Panel, Brown may be bck from Australia, the guys of U-20 be a year older. Derry need find a few forwards, the Downeys moving to Antrim I don't think help their case county fball wise.

[marty34]

I don't really care how other view Derry, we were playing Division 4, 4yrs ago and now got as many Ulster titles as:we had the previous, 30yrs. So it's carry on regardless, Derry people know there limits, No proper right sided free taker. No def man that convert 45's or long range frees. Need about 2 forwards, 1 back, plus better use of the bench. Derry underage got to 7 minor finals in 9yrs.If Meenagh stays or O'Rourke come on I think a no. Of players who dropped off the panel will be looked at it again. E Bradley and J Doherty strengthened the Panel, Brown may be bck from Australia, the guys of U-20 be a year older. Derry need find a few forwards, the Downeys moving to Antrim I don't think help their case county fball wise.

Don't think they're good enough or they'd be playing. Older lad has been on the fringes this past few years but not making any headway in fairness.

When you're bringing a few lads on, who were after being subbed earlier in the day, what is that saying?

The time to give players a go was in the league.

[restorepride]

I don't really care how other view Derry, we were playing Division 4, 4yrs ago and now got as many Ulster titles as:we had the previous, 30yrs. So it's carry on regardless, Derry people know there limits, No proper right sided free taker. No def man that convert 45's or long range frees. Need about 2 forwards, 1 back, plus better use of the bench. Derry underage got to 7 minor finals in 9yrs.If Meenagh stays or O'Rourke come on I think a no. Of players who dropped off the panel will be looked at it again. E Bradley and J Doherty strengthened the Panel, Brown may be bck from Australia, the guys of U-20 be a year older. Derry need find a few forwards, the Downeys moving to Antrim I don't think help their case county fball wise.

Very true and accurate - agree 100%.  McEvoy has been a huge plus this year.  Maybe Forbes next year?

[tbrick18]

Got two unexpected Ulster's with Derry, serious achievement and Derry will more than likely return back into the pack now he has left.

I don't think youse will nrico.. Great club scene going atm looking in from outside and you've had great underage teams past few years.. Them senior titles youngsters can see there's something for them to join

Always had strongest club scene in Ulster and good underage sides, need someone special to harmonise it all together.

I think that's a myth about having the strongest club scene in ulster.
When Crossmaglen dominated Armagh for years it didn't mean they had the best club scene, only that they had one top class club.
Derry have had 2 top class clubs over the last 10 years in slaughtneil and Glen.
I actually think Tyrone club scene is the most competitive in ulster, there's realistically 5 or 6 teams with a chance of winning the championship. They don't do well in ulster interestingly.

In my opinion, one or two top clubs can be enough to generate a serious intercounty side but only temporarily.
A more competitive club championship should provide a more stable senior team over a prolonged period and I think that explains Tyrone and also why Armagh peaked for a while.

Derry have about 5 years I reckon with thus squad being able to challenge, but another club or two could rise too to keep us there.

[Wildweasel74]

I think they be round longer, they got good feeding system from the Underage, I still think Derry never having a U21 league was a direct correlation to their county team performances at this level. Hence why Tyrone done so well. We now a, U-19 league but that still a big gap to senior, and a over reliance on Senior reserve, which I notice already in the league a mount of conceded games.

[seafoid]

Point of Order:
Stop talking about football on this thread. There are countless other ones for that shite.

It's disgraceful. It's worse than  trial by facebook

[Mario]

Derry are a decent side but nothing to suggest they have enough depth to be serious contenders . Far too much reliance on mcguigan too . Top drawer footballer though that's for sure .

You improve enough to get promoted 3 times, win 2 ulsters and get to an AI semi then all of a sudden after praise for a couple of years people dismiss you for not being serious contenders. Yeah we aren't as good as Dublin, Kerry or Galway, but does that mean we should just stop? If we played well id fancy us to give the top 3 a game (see Dublin in Celtic park) and Id fancy us to beat everyone else below that if we played well.

Too reliant on Mcguigan is another criticism when you have an exceptional footballer. Kerry are too reliant on Clifford as well and wouldn't have won an AI without him.

[smelmoth]

I don't really care how other view Derry, we were playing Division 4, 4yrs ago and now got as many Ulster titles as:we had the previous, 30yrs. So it's carry on regardless, Derry people know there limits, No proper right sided free taker. No def man that convert 45's or long range frees. Need about 2 forwards, 1 back, plus better use of the bench. Derry underage got to 7 minor finals in 9yrs.If Meenagh stays or O'Rourke come on I think a no. Of players who dropped off the panel will be looked at it again. E Bradley and J Doherty strengthened the Panel, Brown may be bck from Australia, the guys of U-20 be a year older. Derry need find a few forwards, the Downeys moving to Antrim I don't think help their case county fball wise.

Perfectly fine to want your county to win and to enjoy it when they do. Nothing wrong with not caring what other people think.

My only problem was people claiming that Derry are attacking and that people saying otherwise were lacking in understanding. Each of these are manifestly untrue.

Imagine 2 counties you are not connected with playing that style of football in the AI final - Who would watch?

I can enjoy watching Shane McGuigan drop the shoulder, change direction and curl the ball over the bar. I really don't have any interest in watching Niall Toner prove how fit and diligent he is. No harm to NT I just picked his name because I couldn't remember him going forward on Sunday. It seemed to me that every time he got the ball in play that he turned and soloed away from goal and looked for a risk free fist pass. That's just dull to watch. No risk. No spark. No excitement. Just playing percentages. He has his medal though and a big cup to drink from.

It's possible that in our own thirst for success that Armagh ruin the game in order to achieve success. A great part of this year's league looked that way. God help us if that ever happens.

[JoG2]

I don't really care how other view Derry, we were playing Division 4, 4yrs ago and now got as many Ulster titles as:we had the previous, 30yrs. So it's carry on regardless, Derry people know there limits, No proper right sided free taker. No def man that convert 45's or long range frees. Need about 2 forwards, 1 back, plus better use of the bench. Derry underage got to 7 minor finals in 9yrs.If Meenagh stays or O'Rourke come on I think a no. Of players who dropped off the panel will be looked at it again. E Bradley and J Doherty strengthened the Panel, Brown may be bck from Australia, the guys of U-20 be a year older. Derry need find a few forwards, the Downeys moving to Antrim I don't think help their case county fball wise.

Perfectly fine to want your county to win and to enjoy it when they do. Nothing wrong with not caring what other people think.

My only problem was people claiming that Derry are attacking and that people saying otherwise were lacking in understanding. Each of these are manifestly untrue.

Imagine 2 counties you are not connected with playing that style of football in the AI final - Who would watch?

I can enjoy watching Shane McGuigan drop the shoulder, change direction and curl the ball over the bar. I really don't have any interest in watching Niall Toner prove how fit and diligent he is. No harm to NT I just picked his name because I couldn't remember him going forward on Sunday. It seemed to me that every time he got the ball in play that he turned and soloed away from goal and looked for a risk free fist pass. That's just dull to watch. No risk. No spark. No excitement. Just playing percentages. He has his medal though and a big cup to drink from.

It's possible that in our own thirst for success that Armagh ruin the game in order to achieve success. A great part of this year's league looked that way. God help us if that ever happens.

2 counties racking up the guts of 3:34 between them in the showpiece and you'd consider not tuning in?

[restorepride]

Derry are a decent side but nothing to suggest they have enough depth to be serious contenders . Far too much reliance on mcguigan too . Top drawer footballer though that's for sure .

You improve enough to get promoted 3 times, win 2 ulsters and get to an AI semi then all of a sudden after praise for a couple of years people dismiss you for not being serious contenders. Yeah we aren't as good as Dublin, Kerry or Galway, but does that mean we should just stop? If we played well id fancy us to give the top 3 a game (see Dublin in Celtic park) and Id fancy us to beat everyone else below that if we played well.

Too reliant on Mcguigan is another criticism when you have an exceptional footballer. Kerry are too reliant on Clifford as well and wouldn't have won an AI without him.

McGuigan was indeed exceptional on Sunday.  The leadership he showed was outstanding.  Class.

[JPO]

He's a class forward no doubt but showed leadership?Really? Forwards are meant to take on defenders and score,simple. I do hope Armagh revert to the playing style of last year. Mimicking Derrys style will get them only so far before they are embarrassed like Derry were last year against Galway and this year in the div. 2 final against Dublin. Armagh are better than that. They were great to watch until this year. The fear of losing perhaps? Two young relatives  of mine were taken to Croke park last year for their  first  time  to watch the Galway Armagh game and were completely blown away by the spectacle. They started training with a local club this spring and spent every session without once kicking a ball..A modern well paid manager in charge and they were taught none of the basic skills. They watched two games on tv , one involving Donegal and the other involving Derry. They are now playing soccer. This is the problem with people like RG and many others at club and county level all over Ireland. They are destroying a great game and they even don't care.