Down Club Hurling & Football

[Courtney]

Disappointing day.Seniors when down to 14 played with a bit of fire and only for lack of composure in front of the posts we might have sneaked through.All not lost for this squad and a run in the back door is very possible.
PD was very mentally strong today especially after his miss.Arthur deserves his chance at at least a half and Packie too made an impression when he came in.
McCorry maybe brought on the wrong Johnston with the way the game was going Ryan maybe was a better option for breaking the Derry lines. Lots to look forward to and a good draw would help.

Minors well that was putrid , only for the lucky goal we were devoid of ideas.Conceding 3.10 in last competitive match and then 2.11 today = zero strategy.Seemed like a Newry team with most players either from Newry or very close to it.No passion at all , more like a soccer set up , feel sorry for the players .Abbey yard ball spectators would have a better idea !Maybe if the management signed up for the Crumlin Road Gaol Fundraiser they'd get another year but hopefully our Co Board does the right thing and not fall for that .Taxi for management .Maybe Newry Town or Warrenpoint soccer could utilise them but my God  get them away from our future .
Looking at our underage we are in dire straits -does our Co Board care? Is it who you know? Who you work for ?

Look at the Dev Squads , Minor Management ,who leads our u15 , u16 a joke- clowns , do we care ?I'm sure a few Daddies about positioning themselves for their sons too...TP Murphy would't lead like that but .....

[wobbller]

Disappointing day.Seniors when down to 14 played with a bit of fire and only for lack of composure in front of the posts we might have sneaked through.All not lost for this squad and a run in the back door is very possible.
PD was very mentally strong today especially after his miss.Arthur deserves his chance at at least a half and Packie too made an impression when he came in.
McCorry maybe brought on the wrong Johnston with the way the game was going Ryan maybe was a better option for breaking the Derry lines. Lots to look forward to and a good draw would help.

Minors well that was putrid , only for the lucky goal we were devoid of ideas.Conceding 3.10 in last competitive match and then 2.11 today = zero strategy.Seemed like a Newry team with most players either from Newry or very close to it.No passion at all , more like a soccer set up , feel sorry for the players .Abbey yard ball spectators would have a better idea !Maybe if the management signed up for the Crumlin Road Gaol Fundraiser they'd get another year but hopefully our Co Board does the right thing and not fall for that .Taxi for management .Maybe Newry Town or Warrenpoint soccer could utilise them but my God  get them away from our future .
Looking at our underage we are in dire straits -does our Co Board care? Is it who you know? Who you work for ?

Look at the Dev Squads , Minor Management ,who leads our u15 , u16 a joke- clowns , do we care ?I'm sure a few Daddies about positioning themselves for their sons too...TP Murphy would't lead like that but .....

Surprised you actually waited until 1am to post your pathetic thoughts. Drink obviously on board along with hatred of Shane Mulholland and others make a hideous cocktail. Shame on you

[snoopdog]

westmeath or Wexford away in qualifiers

Delaying the inevitable

[Mourne Rover]

Guevera's assessment of our defence from yesterday is harsh. They held a Derry team who had an extra man for half the match to just 12 points, which should have given us the platform to win the game if our forwards had performed. It was O'Hagan, not Howard, who picked up Bradley, and both of them did well, while McArdle, Turley and Boyle were all very solid.

Our problems were further out the field, and should have been addressed at an earlier stage by our manager. There's no doubt that Fitzpatrick was poor and O'Hare and Maginn will be also be lucky to hold on to their places. Poland clearly struggled but he did miss a full month's training after his eye injury at Croke Park.

Guervera feels that Devlin was a passenger, but he was selected as one of the best three players on the pitch by the Sunday Game last night. The panelists praised his work at midfield, even though he did not actually play there. While he did not make a huge impact from play, his frees were still crucial in keeping the pressure on Derry.

It is difficult to see us going on an extended run in the qualifiers but our draw today was not the worst. The lack of quality up front is a concern, and we need to get midfield sorted out, so it is up to our manager to get the best out of the available resources. While our display yesterday was ordinary, there was at least a fair degree of second half spirit to build on.

[Rodders88]

Agree with Guevera's comment on Kane's kick outs. But over the past few years we seem to have no strategy on our own kick outs. We were getting cleaned in midfield and the ball just keeps getting lumped down the middle. Take note of how well the Derry's kick outs were used yesterday, they clearly had a kick out strategy sorted before hand and not just lump the ball down the middle.

Thought the defence played well yesterday,  to keep a team to 12 points in a Championship match wasn't a bad return. The defence has taken a lot of criticism over the past few years, rightly or wrongly but give credit were its due.

Midfield got cleaned out. Hopefully that game yesterday will bring big Pete on a bit. It's his 1 Championship match since he's been back from Australia and hopefully he'll be a lot better for it. I know people have been saying he's been flying for Ballymartin..but they are a 2nd Division team and the standard of opposition wouldn't be that great. Was very disappointed in Mooney yesterday. Maybe we are expecting too much too soon from him and it will probably take a year or so to get adjusted to life back as a GAA player.

Forward line was very poor yesterday.  Conor Laverty very quiet in the 1st half but stepped up in the 2nd half when brought out the field and was involved in everything. PD Devlin's free taken was excellent but other than that thought he was very quiet. Kevin McKernan hit two great scores but didn't do enough for me out side of that. Maginn and O'Hare were very quiet and you wouldn't have thought they were on the field. Poland tried hard but this will probably been his last season as a starting player.

Subs didn't make much of an impact. Thought Jermone was very naive at the end trying to go for the Hollywood score and probably seen his name in lights instead of working the ball into a better position and getting the score that would have earned us a draw. I know we keep harping on about players who aren't there but how big of a lift would Benny had been, bringing him on with 20mins to go. He would have had the experience and composer to settle the game down and maybe get us over the line. Fingers crossed we can get a good run in the qualifiers and prolong our summer.

In reference to Courtney's comments regarding the minor management set up, can you please let us all know what your problem is with Shane Mulholland??   

[ardtole]

Last year McIvor chose to leave Bradley out of the Derry panel due to his commitments to other sports. Longford beat them in Celtic Park. This year he accomadated him and he was influential in contributing to Derrys success. In contrast McCorry chose not to accomadate Coulter, Gordon or Rodgers,not because they have other commitments but because at this stage of their football careers they need to be managed differently, these guys are not prima donnas, they have given an awful lot to Down football and would have been the difference yesterday. According to Coulters interview on Saturday Clarke was given the option of joining up with the squad but he was the only one. Its fine if McCorrys attitude is either all in or out, but apparently in Clarkes case its different. The option should have been the same for all four or none at all, and that is in no way being disrespectful to Martin Clarke.

In relation to Kanes kick outs ive a lot of sympathy for him. Derry can afford to push up on our defence because they were dominating in the air at midfield, they could force down into kicking short because they were winning the ball in the middle. Short kick outs are fine if you have the free man, Derry pushed up on the down defence forcing kane to kick long knowing they had the advantage there

[downup]

Heading to yesterdays game was a journey of hope rather than expectation. Given the relatively unknown in respect of the Derry team and, in my opinion, our flattering position in Div 2 I had hoped we had moved a little from our league performances.
So what did we witness? Two average teams. Down, for me, are just not a big enough threat going forward. We labour getting the ball into the forward line and then when we do it is fist pass after fist pass until we either lose it ourselves, get turned over or possibly win a free. We have no real potent threats, we don't break at speed and we try to walk the ball over the bar. I understand that we are not gifted with the most talented player in the country but surely they could do equally as well by played a more open brand of fast flowing football. It really is getting very hard to watch. Derry mind you were not much better. I thought we contained them fairly well in the second half but in the first half they did break through us easily at times and with the direct football they played in that half they were worthy of their 3 point winning margin at half time. So where do we go now, a run of some kind in the qualifiers which might bring a win or two but honestly I cant see much more than that. We play like a team that is afraid of losing rather than a team that is going to take it to the other team and go out and win.

In respect of the minor match, I thought we were again set up very defensively. I wouldn't know any of the players on it but if that is the best we have to offer then I fear for the future. I'm probably wrong but I barely remember a minor team winning a championship match in the past 5 or so years. I know nothing about the set up in minors or seniors. Obviously Jim Mc Corry has a long list of credentials, I'm not sure what the minor managements credentials are but I do believe that all those people involved in either selecting managements or those who are currently in the role need to sit down asap and analyse what can be done differently because the way it is at the minute Down are going to be also rans for a long time to come.

[OgraAnDun]

One issue I think with the two games was that the county board (to the best of my knowledge) didn't put either team up in Derry overnight. Some of the minor players travelled from Belfast to Newry at seven in the morning, to then head back up the road past their own homes on the bus on the way to Derry. Having seen a few of the players on the senior panel on Saturday evening I presume they didn't stay the night on Saturday either. In this day an age, a team can hardly be expected to perform to 100% of their ability in what is a professional situation in an Ulster championship match after that journey. I was stiff and tired enough after the trip up the road myself, so I can only imagine what the seniors felt like, never mind the Belfast based minors who could well have been up since half six yesterday morning. I think the management and county board need to have a look at themselves if they think a weekend away in London is a more effective expense than a night in Derry that could have saved the players two hours or more on a cramped bus seat.

In terms of the match itself, I think some of the problems could be fixed by McCorry. Down were altogether too slow in moving the ball up the pitch. How many times did Kane's short kickouts go to a corner back who then wandered up the line looking for a man to make a move, or fistpass the ball to a half back to do the same. Likewise, when the ball was turned over in midfield or the half back line, the ball was not kicked or even ran at pace to the forward line, allowing Derry time to set up their packed defence. Even when the defence was set up, the full forward line were clearly instructed to drift out about 40m from goal, leaving one man inside - leaving O'Hare or Laverty to receive the ball forty yards from the end line, with their backs to goal, in a static position, with three Derry men ready to suffocate them. Lads like that could wreak havoc with a decent, fast, low ball into them on the 21 before Derry could mass their defence, or even if the ball was ran in at pace allowing them to come off the shoulder, or simply receive the ball close in, turn and shoot. They're capable of doing it, as was shown by O'Hare once or twice against Roscommon in Croker.

As regards Mooney, I think he just needs to be given a bit more time. I think it's obvious enough his confidence is low at the minute, especially as regards to shooting - he mentions in the pre match programme that his biggest weakness is 'my shooting has been a bit hit and miss lately' - twice he was through down the middle and could have slipped it over to level the match or put Down ahead, but chose to pass and lost the ball. McCorry needs to instruct one of the older lads (maybe even ask Clarke to show him away from Down training seeing as they seem to be good friends) how to shoot again. To be honest, the whole team could probably do with some practice at the long range shooting, if three or four more had the ability and legs to stick it over from 45 or 50 metres we'd probably be in the semis right now.

[PAULD123]

Our defence is fairly decent , especially that they seem to play a lot of the time with a man less than quota.

Our midfield is non existent, and has been all year. I understand that we do not have any midfielders in the county that meet the standard of MDMA or the O'Shea's. But there were far better midfielders watching the match on TV. In all honesty if Bridge, Burren, Bryansford... went out to play a game and the opposition midfield was Fitzpatrick and PD would they not be feeling confident of winning that battle? Fitzpatrick's selection in particular bamboozles me. When has he ever looked outstanding against one of the better county teams?

We could get round the midfield problem by varying kick outs and breaking the ball. The bigger problem is in getting scores. I am astonished that if we are persevering with a two man forward line that one of them isn't a physical target man. We have both McConville and Downey available. We need to have a direct option or we just end up running the ball into a wall of defenders. We are going nowhere until we get a target man in the team to claim the ball close in and bring play up the pitch in one accurate kick. How much could Laverty and O'Hare profit from someone playing the ball down to them close in? Possibly even the likes of Mooney and McKernan coming in from deep to be fed by the big fella up front.

McConville isn't going to solo a ball 30 yards and dance through a defence but he certainly is capable of fielding a ball against a full-back

[Mourne Rover]

PaulD, Devlin was named at midfield yesterday but was moved away immediately, did not contest either throw-in and took on a roving role. Our midfield was Fitzpatrick and Mooney in the first half and McKernan and Downey for most of the second. It is a fair point that McConville's size could make a difference up front, but all his best football in the league was as an impact sub. A pairing of Mooney and Johnston in the full forward line could be worth a look the next day.

A more adventurous approach, although it may not be likely, would be for McCorry to say that he had picked his squad for the league and Ulster championship with the requirement that they all participated in a full pre-season programme, but, now that both competitions are over, he will make changes. At least two players have left the squad since the league final and we have another couple of injuries to cope with, so there are places available. The lift that a recall for Benny and Dan would give us, even coming off the bench, is enormous. Instead of demotivating the younger players, an injection of experience would bring them on significantly.

[elk]

Heading to yesterdays game was a journey of hope rather than expectation. Given the relatively unknown in respect of the Derry team and, in my opinion, our flattering position in Div 2 I had hoped we had moved a little from our league performances.
So what did we witness? Two average teams. Down, for me, are just not a big enough threat going forward. We labour getting the ball into the forward line and then when we do it is fist pass after fist pass until we either lose it ourselves, get turned over or possibly win a free. We have no real potent threats, we don't break at speed and we try to walk the ball over the bar. I understand that we are not gifted with the most talented player in the country but surely they could do equally as well by played a more open brand of fast flowing football. It really is getting very hard to watch. Derry mind you were not much better. I thought we contained them fairly well in the second half but in the first half they did break through us easily at times and with the direct football they played in that half they were worthy of their 3 point winning margin at half time. So where do we go now, a run of some kind in the qualifiers which might bring a win or two but honestly I cant see much more than that. We play like a team that is afraid of losing rather than a team that is going to take it to the other team and go out and win.

In respect of the minor match, I thought we were again set up very defensively. I wouldn't know any of the players on it but if that is the best we have to offer then I fear for the future. I'm probably wrong but I barely remember a minor team winning a championship match in the past 5 or so years. I know nothing about the set up in minors or seniors. Obviously Jim Mc Corry has a long list of credentials, I'm not sure what the minor managements credentials are but I do believe that all those people involved in either selecting managements or those who are currently in the role need to sit down asap and analyse what can be done differently because the way it is at the minute Down are going to be also rans for a long time to come.

The minor team disappointingly faded badly in the 2nd half after giving us hope when taking the lead and it would make one worry about the future, although the present squad of seniors is not giving us much to get excited about. One straw to grasp is that the minor team of 2013 did beat Derry at Celtic Park before falling against Tyrone in the semi. It will be interesting to see how many of that team feature for the U21's next year.

[FML]

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[quote author=Courtney link=topic=25.msg1476517#msg1476517 date=

Minors well that was putrid , only for the lucky goal we were devoid of ideas.Conceding 3.10 in last competitive match and then 2.11 today = zero strategy.Seemed like a Newry team with most players either from Newry or very close to it.No passion at all , more like a soccer set up , feel sorry for the players .Abbey yard ball spectators would have a better idea !Maybe if the management signed up for the Crumlin Road Gaol Fundraiser they'd get another year but hopefully our Co Board does the right thing and not fall for that .Taxi for management .Maybe Newry Town or Warrenpoint soccer could utilise them but my God  get them away from our future .
Looking at our underage we are in dire straits -does our Co Board care? Is it who you know? Who you work for ?

Look at the Dev Squads , Minor Management ,who leads our u15 , u16 a joke- clowns , do we care ?I'm sure a few Daddies about positioning themselves for their sons too...TP Murphy would't lead like that but .....
[/quote]


Can you name these individuals you have issue with?
Who are the minor back room ream members that are "a joke - clowns' & who are the Development Squad coaches who have problems with?
What does the County Board have to do to sort out these "dire straits"?

[wobbller]

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[quote author=Courtney link=topic=25.msg1476517#msg1476517 date=

Minors well that was putrid , only for the lucky goal we were devoid of ideas.Conceding 3.10 in last competitive match and then 2.11 today = zero strategy.Seemed like a Newry team with most players either from Newry or very close to it.No passion at all , more like a soccer set up , feel sorry for the players .Abbey yard ball spectators would have a better idea !Maybe if the management signed up for the Crumlin Road Gaol Fundraiser they'd get another year but hopefully our Co Board does the right thing and not fall for that .Taxi for management .Maybe Newry Town or Warrenpoint soccer could utilise them but my God  get them away from our future .
Looking at our underage we are in dire straits -does our Co Board care? Is it who you know? Who you work for ?

Look at the Dev Squads , Minor Management ,who leads our u15 , u16 a joke- clowns , do we care ?I'm sure a few Daddies about positioning themselves for their sons too...TP Murphy would't lead like that but .....

Can you name these individuals you have issue with?
Who are the minor back room ream members that are "a joke - clowns' & who are the Development Squad coaches who have problems with?
What does the County Board have to do to sort out these "dire straits"?
[/quote]
Courtney will never answer any questions on his ravings.  I should have ignored him
but sadly replied to him earlier. A clown!

[PAULD123]

PaulD, Devlin was named at midfield yesterday but was moved away immediately, did not contest either throw-in and took on a roving role...

Fair enough, PD wasn't really playing midfield, but at any rate Mooney and Fitzpatrick would not strike fear into the midfield's of half the club Division 1 sides. And was it Mooney, or McKernan, or Downey, maybe even McCardle at times? So hard to tell who exactly was meant to be in midfield when so many players are shuffling around the area. We do not have traditional fielding mid-fielders and we don't have an obvious break-ball strategy either. It is one of three or four trying to catch. Maginn was poor yesterday but is a very good break ball player. But he is not really used as such. instead we hump a high ball to midfield and try to catch it, even though we are consistently out-fielded.

I see no co-ordination between the players. Not like say McKernan is jumping for the ball and is looking for where Maginn is to play it down to him, or maybe Mooney or Poland. If a clean catch is not obviously on I can't see why players are not positioning themselves and aiming for a break down.

At any rate in every game i have seen (missed Westmeath) we are consistently out fielded in the middle and if we continue with teh current srategy of trying to win high ball then it will be a short summer for us.

[SHEEDY]

lads what ever yous think of courtney and his ramblings he does have a point, although many people dont want to hear any negativity about down football. no ulster title at senior level since 1994, no ulster title at minor level since 1999, can anyone see this changing anytime soon.

with regards to the minor set up, arguably the best team in down at this level for the past few years and again this year have been burren. they had 1 player on the team!! 1 player starting from east down? something is wrong with the underage structure in down if we are getting well beat every year. where is all the underage talent? when is the last time the u21's had any success? these defeats at underage level year after year dont happen by accident.
shane mulhollands minors were well beaten in the 1st round by tyrone last year and by derry this year, if this was the senior team there would be post after post on here looking for a change in manager. should we just accept defeat year after year.