Messages

Hear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising

Are Harps entering a IIs team?

No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.

I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.

Hear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising

I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.

No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.

Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.

Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.

If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.

Because their club already competes in the senior championship. They're a reserve team so should compete in the reserve championship. Let clubs who can compete in Ulster at that level battle it out for the junior/intermediate championships.
Have a Premier reserve championship for the stronger teams and then a reserve championship for the others, similar to the Down set up.

I wouldn't be looking at Down for how they run things and in truth reserve football in every county is probably suffering the same issues.

In an ideal world the IIs teams would play reserve but 1. Reserve football is too inconsistent & 2. They're far too strong for junior let alone reserve football.

At the end of the day CE are only the third IIs team to win the junior in 100 odd years 

It's quite simple - they've punted too much money on duds on the off chance they might develop into better players. There are players in the first team squad who probably should have retired by now. Add in a couple of injuries and you've a squad of players that wouldn't win a match in the Europa Conference.

Hear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising

Are Harps entering a IIs team?

No idea but i doubt we'd have consistent numbers/ commitment(to do it right) believe it or not. Was meant to happen decade+ ago and never materialised.

I'd say that would be the biggest hindrance for most clubs. Heard CE were getting 50+ show up for training and I'd say Cross would have similar numbers.

Hear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising

I personally don't like this as I think they should compete in the reserve championship. Let the smaller clubs compete for the junior championship.
You'll never convince me that winning the junior championship would mean as much to Cross or Clann Eireann as it would to Corrinshego or O'Hanlon's.

No problem with seconds teams competing in the all county league set up however.

Yeah agree, let the reserve league be left alone to give fringe players for smaller clubs a go.

Let seconds teams compete in the junior/intermediate league but then have a championship for seconds and reserve teams.

If a club is good enough to field a IIs team at intermediate level, why would you force them to play reserve championship? Benefits nobody.

Hear there's a bit of a push for seconds teams from more of the bigger clubs in Armagh so Junior championship could get a bit of a revitalising

Are Harps entering a IIs team?

It's only when you look back now you realise just how strong Armagh football was. Some clubs were just unlucky that their golden generations happened to coincide with Crossmaglen's almost unstoppable juggernaut.

That Dromintee side from 2001-10 was outstanding. They were beat by Cross in 5 finals (the rest semis?)

Before that Clans and Mullaghbawn had two brilliant teams, Mullaghbawn did win Ulster in 95 but after that both sides faded badly.

Pearse Óg another team dripping with talent managed to break the Cross dominance in 2009, they were beat by a couple of points by St Galls who walked Ulster and won the AI, the likes of Maghery, Harps & Clann Eireann were nowhere near that level when they won their titles in recent years which is probably a sad reflection of where club football is currently at in Armagh.

[I could live with that. Though ideally I'd prefer a return to straight knock out. Last couples of years had a real championship buzz whereas the groups are a bit dragged out with no bite.]

I like the 1a & 1b thing for senior league in Armagh. it's clear as day 1a is where it's at, 1b is a half way house for teams heading to intermediate or intermediate teams trying to genuinely bridge the gap to Senior. Clans were a bit of an outlier this year in 1b and they really need to get out of it. That said I don't think Clans are the 2nd best team in Armagh, still behind Clann Eireann and Madden imo, but a team heading up the rankings.

Absolutely, for all intents and purposes 1B is Division 2 football. If we revert to separation between league and championship we devalue the league while also making it more difficult for clubs to compete at a higher level.

I see the points you're making about competing at a higher level. I'm firmly of the view that move up in championship grade then you should have to win that championship. The same applies to relegation from championships and play offs (unlike the old days in Armagh where clubs would just request to be regraded). It seems we could debate this all day and never agree - how about some ways the current structure could be improved if it's going to remain in place?

1) scrap the current seeding system
For the group stage draw - seed the top 4 teams in 1a so they're in separate groups, and put the other 12 clubs in the other pot - make the group stages that bit more interesting.

I could live with that. Though ideally I'd prefer a return to straight knock out. Last couples of years had a real championship buzz whereas the groups are a bit dragged out with no bite.

2) top 2 qualify for the last 8-the play off round should be scrapped. I understand that they have it there to avoid dead rubbers in the final games, but let's bring some jeopardy into the early games, it was a tough watch at times this year.

I disagree, with dead rubbers you're going to have clubs with nothing to play for playing teams that do and it'll be pure luck who gets to play the wooden spoon in the final game and rack up the scoring difference.

3) play games at neutral venues throughout the championship, have double headers from the start and get some interest going early on.

I'm all for double headers, even triple headers (say 3 Lurgan teams were playing)

4)top 2 in the league should play a league final- no real reason why, just to give us a big game to get interested in pre championship (this would apply across all divisions).

Nope, this devalues the league. You finish top at the end of the season you're the league champions. 

I like the 1a & 1b thing for senior league in Armagh. it's clear as day 1a is where it's at, 1b is a half way house for teams heading to intermediate or intermediate teams trying to genuinely bridge the gap to Senior. Clans were a bit of an outlier this year in 1b and they really need to get out of it. That said I don't think Clans are the 2nd best team in Armagh, still behind Clann Eireann and Madden imo, but a team heading up the rankings.

Absolutely, for all intents and purposes 1B is Division 2 football. If we revert to separation between league and championship we devalue the league while also making it more difficult for clubs to compete at a higher level.

So Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.

So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.

From an Armagh perspective,

Clans reached the Senior championship final this year and all teams bar one were in the league above them.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. I don't see how Clan wouldn't be a senior club if the championship system wasn't linked to league? They won intermediate a few years ago so would need to be relegated from the championship via a play off if the system was to change.

You suggested a few posts back that a load of occasions when clubs from lower league divisions defeated clubs above them in championship football was proof that there was no need to link league and championship.

I'm merely demonstrating that this is still the case even with leagues & championships linked.

So Bosco are punching above their weight fair play.

So maybe proof that there doesn't need to be a link between league and championship? With relegation play offs in championship teams will find their correct level. Counties that don't link them are correct in my opinion.

From an Armagh perspective,

Clans reached the Senior championship final this year and all teams bar one were in the league above them.

Who does Christy O'Kane play for? Or what GAA club is he a member of?

b]It's not complicated[/b].

It's not, but it is stupid. All three of your championship winners played in Division 1.

It's not as far away as the griping above would make you believe.

There won't be a perfect system. There won't even be a close to perfect system. You can't stop stars aligning.

Three simple measures should be easy to implement across the board:

1. When a club wins its county's IFC or JFC, for the subsequent season, they must play at a higher championship level. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

2. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 10th place or higher, then they must compete in their county's SFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.

3. If a club's senior league position at the end of any season, ranks them in 20th place or higher, then they cannot play in their county's JFC the following season. This stipulation supersedes all localised competition rules.


No. 1 is a no-brainer.

Nos. 2 and 3 could run into logistics issues in smaller counties, but in those cases the ranges could be adapted accordingly.

I know I know I know that in some in counties they don't take league football seriously. But you know what? There's clubs everywhere forking out a fortune for management teams and toys all year round. The least they could do in return is try harder in league football.

The voice of reason.

I don't care how "seriously" clubs may or may not take their league fixtures. I refuse to believe a club that can compete with Division 1 clubs (on any level, regardless of no. of absent county players) can still be considered a junior club. It's ridiculous.

[Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county]

Massive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.

I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.

Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.

Do you think if every club in Armagh are at full strength that they're the 18th best team in the county? Personally, I don't. They would push, and probably beat, teams such as Mullabawn, Dromintee, Silverbridge. The fact they're in intermediate due to a poor league performance in 2022, when they were short of their best players, shows why league and championship shouldn't be linked in my view.

Good luck to Cullyhanna in the final, it would be great to see them get a crack at an all Ireland.

At full strength they're a similar standard of about 10 teams in Armagh who'd all beat each other on any given day. They were short their best players for near 15 years and stayed senior that entire time. They'd a few extra men unavailable for one reason or another last year and got relegated. Not like any eyebrows were raised, they then lost 4 times in the 3rd tier of the leagues this year which IMO shows that was their level.

Massive win for Cullyhanna today v Liatroim. Sad to see Armagh abusing the system and senior team playing intermediate but thats what Cavan Club teams are up against.

I for one will be supporting Ballyhaise the underdog in the final.

The team that finished second in the third tier of league football in the Armagh leagues.

Cullyhanna were the 18th placed team in the Armagh league structures this season. No cooking the books in Armagh, unlike Cavan.

Smell a long distance Beggan equaliser