Jim McGuiness - 10 Years On

[MC]

I think Jim Mc Guinness forced a lot of teams - county and club - to give a much higher consideration of tactics in Gaelic football.

It was probably going that way anyway but he gave it a huge push on.

Even Dublin will often have 15 in their own half at various times in any game.

How other teams choose to employ the tactics is down to each individual team and manager - but I think there is too much focus on Mc Guinness tactics for men behind the ball rather than the other part which was attacking at speed and attacking in pods.

[seafoid]

His articles in the Irish Times about tactics are very interesting.

Eghttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-to-create-pressure-and-mayhem-1.4439920

"The second objective is to stop Dublin getting the ball in their hand. Once they take control of the football, then they slip into possession mode. So can you apply pressure on them in open play? It is particularly hard to do this against Dublin because they are extremely well schooled. They are big and athletic and they can beat a lone tackler and simply do not want to force the ball through contact. They will lay it off to the next free man. They don't take the risk to give defenders a chance to get at them."

[the goal was on]

Mc Guinness brought the cult of full time manager to the fore too! This Was his main job alongside couple of other staff like maxi Curran who was employed by county board at time but was basically full time senior . This helped fast track the team and provide a professional service . Can't be forgotten about either as I'm sure John joe before him had his own job to do

[tyroneman]

Just goes to show the vaule of fine margins and a little luck going your way

Tyrone kicked themselves out of it in the first half of that 2011 Clones match, lost Joe McMahon to a very dubious piece of 'tackling' , Kevin Hughes was lost to a red card and a mistake cost them a goal....

I think this gave the players enough belife to stick wiht McGuinness and his methods which them led to...2014, where:

Dublin could and should have had Donegal dead and buried in the first 15-20 minutes , with the amount of chances they had ...but wayward finishing and some uncharacteristic Dublin mistakes let Donegal back into it

Now every successful County can prob point back to a few turning points, or a few breaks of the ball thier way that helped them gain confidence etc .....and fair play to DnG and Jim for capitalising on them

[Angelo]

His articles in the Irish Times about tactics are very interesting.

Eghttps://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/jim-mcguinness-mayo-need-to-create-pressure-and-mayhem-1.4439920

"The second objective is to stop Dublin getting the ball in their hand. Once they take control of the football, then they slip into possession mode. So can you apply pressure on them in open play? It is particularly hard to do this against Dublin because they are extremely well schooled. They are big and athletic and they can beat a lone tackler and simply do not want to force the ball through contact. They will lay it off to the next free man. They don't take the risk to give defenders a chance to get at them."

Very true, Dublin are an extremely dull and boring team to watch which makes all the fanfare about the way they play the game ridiculous. I said it months back, when was the last time you saw a Dublin player take on a high risk shot? It doesn't happen, it's all about recycling the ball until you have a high percentage chance. They are so far ahead of the rest athletically and physically that they will wear teams down physically.

[Angelo]

Mc Guinness brought the cult of full time manager to the fore too! This Was his main job alongside couple of other staff like maxi Curran who was employed by county board at time but was basically full time senior . This helped fast track the team and provide a professional service . Can't be forgotten about either as I'm sure John joe before him had his own job to do

Plenty of GAA managers have done or did similar. Lot's of retired teachers and publicans and that have been over county teams in the past.

[oakleaflad]

I think Jim Mc Guinness forced a lot of teams - county and club - to give a much higher consideration of tactics in Gaelic football.

It was probably going that way anyway but he gave it a huge push on.

Even Dublin will often have 15 in their own half at various times in any game.

How other teams choose to employ the tactics is down to each individual team and manager - but I think there is too much focus on Mc Guinness tactics for men behind the ball rather than the other part which was attacking at speed and attacking in pods.

Dublin (and other top counties) were doing this before Jim McGuinness beat them.

Agree completely on second point. 'Men behind the ball' tends to be lazy analysis from people who haven't been involved in the game for a while in my experience. That alone is a small and relatively simple part of a gameplan that any number of club managers have been employing for years.

[J70]

Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.

However  agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.

Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.

That's got nothing to do with Jim McGuinness though. He did things his way, was very successful at it and brought Donegal to levels nobody thought ever possible just a few years prior. I thought McConville put it fairly well about how Donegal would have been viewed within Ulster prior to McGuinness taking over.

The issue for you seems to be your club appointing some poor Jim McGuinness tribute act. That's not Jim McGuinness fault, he was an innovative manager who cut his cloth accordingly.  I was surprised there wasn't a heave against Bonner in Donegal to look at trying to get McGuinness back. Murphy might not have that much longer at the top so I think McGuinness might fancy another go in the next few years. I'd be very interested to see how he'd go about things this time, I have a feeling we'd see something different again from him.

Hadn't really thought about that. Would Jim want to come back though, with a bit less top-class material to work with, especially as Murphy is now into his thirties?

There's no Karl Laceys or Frank McGlynns or Kevin Cassidys or Neil Gallaghers or peak McGees in the Donegal squad.

It would be interesting to see how he would shape things though.

And I agree, Bonner probably has got off lightly, living off the two Ulsters despite the subsequent failures, but then the Ulster final shock did come amidst all the COVID stuff. Everything kind of moved on very quickly, especially with a relatively small off-season. He'll be under pressure this year though, which will not be easy with Tyrone on the way back and Cavan going for a repeat.

[Angelo]

Lenny your own club team are brutal at the 15 men behind the ball, infact imo you lost the county final as you had no attacking strategy when you went behind. It was only when you realised the game was gone that you looked like a team who if they had of came out earlier may have had a chance. And the disappointing bit is you have the players to be more adventurous.

However  agree Mc Guiness showed teams another way, his tactics and then Dublins restart strategy has made the game alot more thoughtful. Teams have to really plan how to approach games now as a direct result.

Why do you think I hate that type of football? I said it had trickled down to all levels of club football. I've had to watch some rubbish games over the last few years. There's no issue when the other team leaves gaps at the back and we can counter attack at pace. When the other side sets up defensively it becomes incredibly tedious to watch. These tactical battles are sucking the life out of the game. It's a possession game nowadays and many games are virtually non contact because players avoid contact and risk at all costs.

That's got nothing to do with Jim McGuinness though. He did things his way, was very successful at it and brought Donegal to levels nobody thought ever possible just a few years prior. I thought McConville put it fairly well about how Donegal would have been viewed within Ulster prior to McGuinness taking over.

The issue for you seems to be your club appointing some poor Jim McGuinness tribute act. That's not Jim McGuinness fault, he was an innovative manager who cut his cloth accordingly.  I was surprised there wasn't a heave against Bonner in Donegal to look at trying to get McGuinness back. Murphy might not have that much longer at the top so I think McGuinness might fancy another go in the next few years. I'd be very interested to see how he'd go about things this time, I have a feeling we'd see something different again from him.

There's no Karl Laceys or Frank McGlynns or Kevin Cassidys or Neil Gallaghers or peak McGees in the Donegal squad.

There is still Murphy there.

There's Ryan McHugh, Ban Gallagher, MacNiallais back, McBrearty, H McFadden all in their prime (question marks over McBrearty now granted) - good young talent like J Brennan, Mogan, O'Donnell, J McGee Langan, Gallen etc.

They have loads of potential there. Only really McGee, McGrath (who is probably not a starter anymore) and Murphy are the wrong side of 30.

I also think the curent Donegal side has much more in depth too than what McGuinness had where it was the likes of Walsh and Brick Molloy who he had to call from the bench whereas now they have a good core of 22/23 really good intercounty players.

Donegal are a comfortable top 5 side in the country right now. I'd be very interested to see what he could bring to this group of players.

[Main Street]

I don't think Jimmy stuck at it long enough to leave a defining legacy. Definitely he had an immediate  and outstanding influence on Donegal, but imo would have had to stay on and adjust his Donegal to meet the challenge of teams that had successfully adjusted to his game plan. Despite their travails, Donegal had the ingredients of a very good team when he took over.
As it stands now he's a one trick pony who has settled for a life being a hurler on the ditch. Legacy should be a rare tribute  such as  a manager like Mickey Harte who earned merit by travelling the hardest of roads and never giving up, leaving  an outstanding  inspirational contribution to GAA,  culminating in the  miracle in 2008,  turning dull Tyrone water into vintage wine.

[imtommygunn]

I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)

[GetOverTheBar]

I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)

Exactly, McGuinness was very clear when he wanted the Donegal job it was an Olympic cycle. That's why they didn't want anything to do with him at the start they didn't understand what the hell he was on about!

[Angelo]

I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)

Maybe not but I don't think McGuiness is a one trick pony either. If he ever does come back to intercounty management I don't think he will be defined by the tactics with Donegal, I'm sure he will have new views and new ideas.

[tiempo]

I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)

Maybe not but I don't think McGuiness is a one trick pony either. If he ever does come back to intercounty management I don't think he will be defined by the tactics with Donegal, I'm sure he will have new views and new ideas.

Yeh I reckon he'll find a way to go even more defensive, 16 men behind the ball, get the ref involved some way

[Angelo]

I don't think his means had longevity. They would have had were there a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year(not a dig at Dublin but with training the hard I don't think you can do it with more or less the same group of players year on year)

Maybe not but I don't think McGuiness is a one trick pony either. If he ever does come back to intercounty management I don't think he will be defined by the tactics with Donegal, I'm sure he will have new views and new ideas.

Yeh I reckon he'll find a way to go even more defensive, 16 men behind the ball, get the ref involved some way

That's the type of lazy analysis aimed at McGuinness which is completely unfair