http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html)
Crazy, crazy country
it would make ya think.....
Quote from: Mid Mon on April 15, 2009, 03:35:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html)
Crazy, crazy country
Make room, iam on my way
Quote from: Square Ball on April 15, 2009, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Mid Mon on April 15, 2009, 03:35:58 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html)
Crazy, crazy country
Make room, iam on my way
give us a lift will ya?
think i'm gonna move the mile across the border,give up my job and take up golf.
unbelievable!!!
First phase - Unprotected sex
Actually no, first phase - Find a woman :P
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
There are more people claiming benefits in Ballyconnell, county cavan than actually live there!!
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
[It's not sustainable now in Eire
There is no place called "Eire"(sic) in the English Language . >:(
I dont understand why the government see nothing wrong with this!
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
p***k
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
Oh come on roger old chap. It wasn't that long ago that even Big(ot) Ian was advocating a United ireland of sorts when he wanted special status for 6 county beef. If one thing would change unionist attitude it would be in their pockets. Surely all the tattooed loyalist thugs would love the extra benefits in the republic, they could give up the drug dealing and live an honest life.
This is some joke . How can he be earning €10,034 more on the dole! Of course you talk of cut backs to the dole and the likes Rossfan are outraged.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 15, 2009, 06:37:34 PM
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
[It's not sustainable now in Eire
There is no place called "Eire"(sic) in the English Language . >:(
Apologies for not having the know-how to get one of those accents above the "E". I presume that's why you are angry (yet again)?
Jesus that is a disgrace... Thoug saying that, my bookies changes cheques, and most the regulars bring in theirs to get changed, come of the amounts of money they get are scandalous, and for what? To sit in the bookies punting all day, then go for a few pints. My deam life, no joke!
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 09:26:28 PM
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
Oh come on roger old chap. It wasn't that long ago that even Big(ot) Ian was advocating a United ireland of sorts when he wanted special status for 6 county beef.
Special status for NI produce is sensible given that BSE etc is low risk in NI if the outbreak is in GB. Doesn't mean one sovereign jurisdiction for everything else though. I always thought it very ironic that the Unionists pushed for this, whilst the ROI government sealed the border and stopped buses of pensioners on a day-trip to Dublin to confiscate their ham and corned beef sarnies. Strange world.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 09:26:28 PMIf one thing would change unionist attitude it would be in their pockets.
I don't think the short-term gain on current welfare benefits in ROI would be enough to make enough unionist or nationalist votes combined to vote for unification. There was some talk by ROI politicians last week that a married couple with 2 kids on €42k are now worse off by €7k since October 2008. I don't know if this is right but it is a more scary stat than any benefits system stat to me.
I do however feel that everyone's attitudes would be and are highly influenced by their material well being although I believe to gain a swing in the vote to nationalist majority would also require any new state to provide well being improvement/maintenance combined with the ditching of a lot of the prominent trappings/culture of the current ROI state. Currently the well being issue is one good reason to maintain the union.
From an all-island point of view, the trouble that the ROI economy is in is not good for NI imho. Some on both sides of the border may gloat about the other state's misfortune but I personally believe that for either economy to be in a mess is to the detriment of the other. For either to be strong benefits the other. I'm very much in favour of the two states co-operating where appropriate in business for mutual advantage.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 09:26:28 PMSurely all the tattooed loyalist thugs would love the extra benefits in the republic, they could give up the drug dealing and live an honest life.
Sadly there is a lot more money in crime than benefits. If any thugs from whatever background wish to move to the ROI to avail of the benefits there, I'll pay their bus fare.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on April 15, 2009, 08:28:30 PM
I dont understand why the government see nothing wrong with this!
I don't understand why anyone can see nothing wrong with this. I would presume that government don't really know that this has happened.
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
...the same way that the unionist/loyalists 'changed their minds' when the 'Celtic tiger' was in full flow down here in Ireland.
those previously 'sworn' to 'never cross the border' from the north or Ireland into the south suddenly seemed to 'lose their principles' and had no problem heading down to Dublin to work and earn punts then euros !
so when the time is right and the economy comes back again, there wont be any question of will unionists/loyalists etc etc...
the problem is with how much the british gov , us gov and eu will assist funding and job creation /local industry in the impoverished north - given the near total reliance on civil service jobs.
All these things are resolvable, its just then a case of unionist/loyalist 'principles' - and we now know and have seen that these dont count for much when the greenbacks are flashed in front of their face (as with most people I hasten to add).
so no need to worry roger !
dole is too high here, but then so is the cost of living.
The current 'downturn/recession' is actually helping in addressing a lot of financial inequalities throughout europe and in a couple of years this wont be as bad as the disaprity seen at celtic tiger peak time.
I will try not and go off on another rant about the Irish civil service/public sector , but a root and branch trawl to identify inefficiencies and a wholesale cull of the deadwood/money haemmoraging departments needs to be done and the necessary axe swinging/personel re-deployment and early retirement etc must be done before we can attempt to put in the policies and procedures at lower detailed levels to stop any breach or flaunting of business/money spending etc as has been done by banks/financial regulator/building dev etc in recent years.
then the private sector can be addressed though it more or less regulates itself through competition/supply and demand.
After this we shoul dhave a lean model to assist with future governance and growth.
Makes it easier to assimilate a new Ireland (along with the investment and foreign gov monies needed for initial few years).
As he also has a mortgage, he is entitled to mortgage interest supplement which pays all the interest on your mortgage. In his case, this was €1,200 per month of his €1,500 mortgage, or €14,400 per annum.
Just pasted this part from the article . Is this true ? And how long is paid for ?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 16, 2009, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
...the same way that the unionist/loyalists 'changed their minds' when the 'Celtic tiger' was in full flow down here in Ireland.
those previously 'sworn' to 'never cross the border' from the north or Ireland into the south suddenly seemed to 'lose their principles' and had no problem heading down to Dublin to work and earn punts then euros !
so when the time is right and the economy comes back again, there wont be any question of will unionists/loyalists etc etc...
the problem is with how much the british gov , us gov and eu will assist funding and job creation /local industry in the impoverished north - given the near total reliance on civil service jobs.
All these things are resolvable, its just then a case of unionist/loyalist 'principles' - and we now know and have seen that these dont count for much when the greenbacks are flashed in front of their face (as with most people I hasten to add).
so no need to worry roger !
I don't disagree in principle with your observance of people's attitudes when it comes to material advantage. It works both ways across the Irish border, within NI and in most other states for that matter. If you think the EU, USA, and UK government are going to pay for the absorption of Northern Ireland into the Eire state, then the price might be a bit higher than these people are prepared to pay. Keep working on them though if you want.
Quote from: Roger on April 16, 2009, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 16, 2009, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: Roger on April 15, 2009, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 15, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on April 15, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think). Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north. My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well. After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north. It does seem a bit crazy.
Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?
It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.
...the same way that the unionist/loyalists 'changed their minds' when the 'Celtic tiger' was in full flow down here in Ireland.
those previously 'sworn' to 'never cross the border' from the north or Ireland into the south suddenly seemed to 'lose their principles' and had no problem heading down to Dublin to work and earn punts then euros !
so when the time is right and the economy comes back again, there wont be any question of will unionists/loyalists etc etc...
the problem is with how much the british gov , us gov and eu will assist funding and job creation /local industry in the impoverished north - given the near total reliance on civil service jobs.
All these things are resolvable, its just then a case of unionist/loyalist 'principles' - and we now know and have seen that these dont count for much when the greenbacks are flashed in front of their face (as with most people I hasten to add).
so no need to worry roger !
I don't disagree in principle with your observance of people's attitudes when it comes to material advantage. It works both ways across the Irish border, within NI and in most other states for that matter. If you think the EU, USA, and UK government are going to pay for the absorption of Northern Ireland into the Eire state, then the price might be a bit higher than these people are prepared to pay. Keep working on them though if you want.
whatever the british gov will pay towards jettisoning the north , it will save themmoney in the long run. I think everyone knows that they want to get rid of the north of Ireland back to unification as the policing, military, civil service etc costs run into multi billions a year.
I think it was 50 + billion for policing alone...dont know if thats the right figure- but anyhow its a lot of money and they will most def sign up to help fund the transition of re-unification at least.
The EU - well this is their kind of thing, they helped fund the German re-unification but misjudged this by a mile.
Local industry was never properly set up in the old 'east germany' and as a result it took years of struggle to get back to an even keel in Germany.
Ireland will have the benefit of this knowledge.
US - well they like to play the big shot and have funded countires like post WW2 Germany and Japan plus a few smaller ones.
they may be coaxed into putting some industry into the 9 ulster counties if not shamed into parting with money.
If they want to keep being the big shot and dabbling in Irish negotiations etc then they need to put their money where their mouth is,it is a long shot but yankee pride is a strange thing !
This whole thing of never crossing the border in the past - I doubt that was the general case for unionists.
We, and most people I knew as a kid regularly holidayed in the ROI - cork, kerry, galway particularly I remember.
I was in the likes of Achill Island with my scouts as well - which was ostensibly protestant as it was held in a church hall, but there where also catholics in it as well.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 16, 2009, 10:47:00 AM
whatever the british gov will pay towards jettisoning the north , it will save themmoney in the long run. I think everyone knows that they want to get rid of the north of Ireland back to unification as the policing, military, civil service etc costs run into multi billions a year.
I think it was 50 + billion for policing alone...dont know if thats the right figure- but anyhow its a lot of money and they will most def sign up to help fund the transition of re-unification at least.
The EU - well this is their kind of thing, they helped fund the German re-unification but misjudged this by a mile.
Local industry was never properly set up in the old 'east germany' and as a result it took years of struggle to get back to an even keel in Germany.
Ireland will have the benefit of this knowledge.
US - well they like to play the big shot and have funded countires like post WW2 Germany and Japan plus a few smaller ones.
they may be coaxed into putting some industry into the 9 ulster counties if not shamed into parting with money.
If they want to keep being the big shot and dabbling in Irish negotiations etc then they need to put their money where their mouth is,it is a long shot but yankee pride is a strange thing !
Even if the motivation for USA and EU was to force an Ireland state I don't think either of them will stump up money if they don't think the people here want it. To make it motivational to swing the unionist vote to nationalist majority they would need to pay way over the odds which I don't think they would be willing to do so. So long as people here aren't shooting each other, there is little motivation for either USA or EU to get involved. We're not big and high profile enough imo. HMG has a strong track record of maintaining the union between GB and NI regardless of cost. I don't think that there is enough strong motivation to "jettison" NI from the Union based simply on cost. There is no other motivation to do so either.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 16, 2009, 10:38:13 AM
As he also has a mortgage, he is entitled to mortgage interest supplement which pays all the interest on your mortgage. In his case, this was €1,200 per month of his €1,500 mortgage, or €14,400 per annum.
Just pasted this part from the article . Is this true ? And how long is paid for ?
Is there a Disability Living Allowance in the Republic? It is the big one for "working a move" on here.
I have to say I'm absolutely amazed at the benefits quoted on this thread for the Republic. Surely a government that has produced the last couple of budgets would be tackling this kind of system as well. It can't last, can it?
Quote from: Roger on April 16, 2009, 12:24:02 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 16, 2009, 10:47:00 AM
whatever the british gov will pay towards jettisoning the north , it will save themmoney in the long run. I think everyone knows that they want to get rid of the north of Ireland back to unification as the policing, military, civil service etc costs run into multi billions a year.
I think it was 50 + billion for policing alone...dont know if thats the right figure- but anyhow its a lot of money and they will most def sign up to help fund the transition of re-unification at least.
The EU - well this is their kind of thing, they helped fund the German re-unification but misjudged this by a mile.
Local industry was never properly set up in the old 'east germany' and as a result it took years of struggle to get back to an even keel in Germany.
Ireland will have the benefit of this knowledge.
US - well they like to play the big shot and have funded countires like post WW2 Germany and Japan plus a few smaller ones.
they may be coaxed into putting some industry into the 9 ulster counties if not shamed into parting with money.
If they want to keep being the big shot and dabbling in Irish negotiations etc then they need to put their money where their mouth is,it is a long shot but yankee pride is a strange thing !
Even if the motivation for USA and EU was to force an Ireland state I don't think either of them will stump up money if they don't think the people here want it. To make it motivational to swing the unionist vote to nationalist majority they would need to pay way over the odds which I don't think they would be willing to do so. So long as people here aren't shooting each other, there is little motivation for either USA or EU to get involved. We're not big and high profile enough imo. HMG has a strong track record of maintaining the union between GB and NI regardless of cost. I don't think that there is enough strong motivation to "jettison" NI from the Union based simply on cost. There is no other motivation to do so either.
you need to check out hmg's stance on the issue then. you'd better sit down as I think you are in for a surprise.
EU would more or less HAVE to fund this due to precedent.
The US dont have to but would maybe help by assistin in setting up more industry here.
The decision about when re-unification is to happen is another discussion entirely, but simply say that when the majority switches over, it then all falls onto the realm of economics and the guarantee of jobs and a decent equitable system drawn up for all citizens of Ireland, as rightfully pointed out before, nationalists wont want any jump made either until the money / health and welfare systems are sorted out for the re-newed Ireland first. unionist/loyalist intransigence will be placated by money as it always has (example given with crossing border in celtic tiger era).
in the 80's and early 90's paisley and co were shouting to all and sundry unionist/loyalists up there to never (never never) cross the border (but at the same time had their shipping companies operating in, through and with south) so it was fairly obv when unionist/loyalists started apprearing in workplaces around dublin. met and spoke to many in the late 90's early 00's myself and that is the tale they told me.
So as mentioned the 'principles' go out the window when theres economic incentive. I dont think anyone would want it otherwise.
I live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
Mind you id near go out and have four children and retire off the back of the benefits of them i was meaning to get back into playing a bit of golf this summer if i got the time lol :D
Quote from: the scenic route on April 16, 2009, 04:54:25 PM
I live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
Mind you id near go out and have four children and retire off the back of the benefits of them i was meaning to get back into playing a bit of golf this summer if i got the time lol :D
Well you can try that but as far as i know you need 2 years PRSI/PAYE contributions in the south before you can claim that.
QuoteI live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
What's your name and address out of curiosity
you thieving fcker ;)
Quote from: nifan on April 16, 2009, 11:09:37 AM
This whole thing of never crossing the border in the past - I doubt that was the general case for unionists.
We, and most people I knew as a kid regularly holidayed in the ROI - cork, kerry, galway particularly I remember.
I was in the likes of Achill Island with my scouts as well - which was ostensibly protestant as it was held in a church hall, but there where also catholics in it as well.
You would have been in good company in Achill, it has a long but not very proud (from speaking to lads i know anyway) protestant history.
Quote from: Tubberman on April 16, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
QuoteI live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
What's your name and address out of curiosity you thieving fcker
;)
Got to love this attitude, there is no border when it suits some people in the North but when they want too rip us off or smuggle petrol the boarder is very real.
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 16, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
QuoteI live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
What's your name and address out of curiosity you thieving fcker
;)
Got to love this attitude, there is no border when it suits some people in the North but when they want too rip us off or smuggle petrol the boarder is very real.
It aint that simple anyway, cant just appear this side of border and expect to get welfare.
Quote from: Gnevin on April 15, 2009, 10:52:51 PM
! Of course you talk of cut backs to the dole and the likes Rossfan are outraged.
I'm outraged at smug well heeled right wing gobs like you who think that the problems now being experienced are all the fault of the little people instead of the greedy grasping cnuts who really caused it all.
If little or no Social Welfare and low wages are the answer how come Haiti isnt the greatest economy in the world.?
What a pity Gnevin doesnt live in France -- those boyos would soon put an end to his smugness.
Quote from: cavan4ever on April 16, 2009, 06:36:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 16, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
QuoteI live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
What's your name and address out of curiosity you thieving fcker
;)
Got to love this attitude, there is no border when it suits some people in the North but when they want too rip us off or smuggle petrol the boarder is very real.
It aint that simple anyway, cant just appear this side of border and expect to get welfare.
I don't know. There has always been people going both sides of the border for this sort of thing. All you need to do is to have an address in north and south and have worked a period in both. Once on the system you are there for good. This was rampant in the 80's, probably died of during the celtic tiger and I'd imagine will make a come back again now.
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2009, 09:10:13 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 15, 2009, 10:52:51 PM
! Of course you talk of cut backs to the dole and the likes Rossfan are outraged.
I'm outraged at smug well heeled right wing gobs like you who think that the problems now being experienced are all the fault of the little people instead of the greedy grasping cnuts who really caused it all.
If little or no Social Welfare and low wages are the answer how come Haiti isnt the greatest economy in the world.?
What a pity Gnevin doesnt live in France -- those boyos would soon put an end to his smugness.
I am neither Right wing or smug. I have defended the Social Welfare system on here many times and believe in the need for the system .
What would you define as little social welfare by all accounts this man is getting more on the dole than on working . Surely you agree that is not right.
The cost of living has dropped and many people's wages have too . Social Welfare should decrease but won't the best that will happen is no increases for a couple of years. I've heard up North its £56 a week compare to €210 is the cost of living 4 time higher here?
When did I say it was all the fault of the little people ? The little person didn't cause this but unfortunately we all need to help to fix it. This sort attitude of it was all the bankers, developers who caused it not me ,let them fix it just doesn't fly. Well the problems may of been cause by these Muppets but the problem is so big now that even if you took every assets of every banker, developer and fat cat in this country we still wouldn't have enough to but the economy right (and would probably tank the economy even more but that is beside the point).
Are the Fat Cats being hit hard enough ? No I don't believe so but the Government can only control taxes and spending and we need to make cut backs and increase the tax base. The cut backs will have to come from the Social Welfare and the Public Service , while the taxes will come from all but rich should and are paying more .
i think those figure need to be examined , befor people start voting for labour camps for the poor
their dole is €443.90 FOR 6 PEOPLE or €74 eachtry living on that. plus they need to find 300 a month if we are to believe that some one on 28K would have a 14K a year mortgate,( and as was asked what the story with the mortgage interest supplement , this soounds grossly over stated) this leaves them with €63 or about the green fee of a decent golf course.
Just because the english Government treats its poor like scum is no excuse for the Irish to do the same .
I know this all come out of our taxes but i for one am comforted by the fact the if i do lose my Job i won't be thrown to the wolves.
Quote from: rosnarun on April 17, 2009, 01:41:49 AM
i think those figure need to be examined , befor people start voting for labour camps for the poor
their dole is €443.90 FOR 6 PEOPLE or €74 eachtry living on that. plus they need to find 300 a month if we are to believe that some one on 28K would have a 14K a year mortgate,( and as was asked what the story with the mortgage interest supplement , this soounds grossly over stated) this leaves them with €63 or about the green fee of a decent golf course.
Just because the english Government treats its poor like scum is no excuse for the Irish to do the same .
I know this all come out of our taxes but i for one am comforted by the fact the if i do lose my Job i won't be thrown to the wolves.
I agree as I showed above the figures before he was on the dole didn't seem to make much sense either .
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 16, 2009, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: cavan4ever on April 16, 2009, 06:36:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 16, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
QuoteI live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
What's your name and address out of curiosity you thieving fcker
;)
Got to love this attitude, there is no border when it suits some people in the North but when they want too rip us off or smuggle petrol the boarder is very real.
It aint that simple anyway, cant just appear this side of border and expect to get welfare.
I don't know. There has always been people going both sides of the border for this sort of thing. All you need to do is to have an address in north and south and have worked a period in both. Once on the system you are there for good. This was rampant in the 80's, probably died of during the celtic tiger and I'd imagine will make a come back again now.
I would have thought this was the case too myles , as you point out.
as for gnevin and rossfan
lads I see merit in what both of you are saying.
there has yet to be measures taken against the top end fat cats, plus the civil service inefficiency.
There needs to be more stringent levels for geting dole and benefits here too, as even before the celtic tiger a lot of people I knew in certain enclaves were all on the dole and didnt want jobs.
now with widespread dole fraud, this needs to be sorted out.
A lot of benefits are being paid by the state that should be cut out completely (eg €150 for 'ethnic' hairdo's in navan).
these days dole/benefit should be the last refuge to keep a family/people afloat. It should be trimmed of excessive stuff so that additional impoverished former self employed people can survive as they are entitled to nothing.
Thats why I say there needs to be serious investigation and swift reconcilliatory measures taken to address all this.
The Gov are thinking about bringing in a green card system, how long will they deliberate on this before it comes in.
Prob wont.
We can do a lot with the resources we currently have to go a long way to keep things afloat if the gov make this happen. Hard to get turkeys to vote for christmas and thats what they are are facing regarding gov v civil service/public sector.
1. to make them more effiecient and change, 2.to make them actually work to get this survey and then restructuring done.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 16, 2009, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: cavan4ever on April 16, 2009, 06:36:39 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on April 16, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
QuoteI live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
What's your name and address out of curiosity you thieving fcker
;)
Got to love this attitude, there is no border when it suits some people in the North but when they want too rip us off or smuggle petrol the boarder is very real.
It aint that simple anyway, cant just appear this side of border and expect to get welfare.
I don't know. There has always been people going both sides of the border for this sort of thing. All you need to do is to have an address in north and south and have worked a period in both. Once on the system you are there for good. This was rampant in the 80's, probably died of during the celtic tiger and I'd imagine will make a come back again now.
I wont just give the name and address away lol dont want an angry mob at the door some evenin
but my da's buisness address and name registered in the south and i have had a prsi number from working for him summers and all that for about 7 years,
i hope a havent upset too many people here threatenin to put my hand in the money jar down south.. I think one of the aspects of the new budget was to tighten up on this.
its mental, social welfare should be a subsistence allowance period, anyone married with kids making under 50k is nuts for working
Quote from: magickingdom on April 17, 2009, 08:51:37 PM
its mental, social welfare should be a subsistence allowance period, anyone married with kids making under 50k is nuts for working
Were banks ever so bad that they where giving what I assume is a single wage a mortgage which required more than 50% of their wage a year in repayments. This story doesn't add up
QuoteA lot of benefits are being paid by the state that should be cut out completely (eg €150 for 'ethnic' hairdo's in navan).
thats the Problem with these discussion , they break down to naked racism almost immediately. that is a reprehensible remark .
Quote from: rosnarun on April 17, 2009, 11:37:24 PM
QuoteA lot of benefits are being paid by the state that should be cut out completely (eg €150 for 'ethnic' hairdo's in navan).
thats the Problem with these discussion , they break down to naked racism almost immediately. that is a reprehensible remark .
Agreed. No need for that sort of comment
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 10:21:51 PM
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
If he is getting €1,200 a month to cover his mortgage
Interest at current rates his mortgage would be well over €500,000. Seems a bit odd for a guy earning €35,000.
Quote from: muppet on April 17, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 10:21:51 PM
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
If he is getting €1,200 a month to cover his mortgage Interest at current rates his mortgage would be well over €500,000. Seems a bit odd for a guy earning €35,000.
Muppet , how much would you expect a person to be earning to get a 500k mortgage? Ball park will do?
Quote from: rosnarun on April 17, 2009, 11:37:24 PM
QuoteA lot of benefits are being paid by the state that should be cut out completely (eg €150 for 'ethnic' hairdo's in navan).
thats the Problem with these discussion , they break down to naked racism almost immediately. that is a reprehensible remark .
whatever about racism, do you think we the taxpayer should be funding that kind of thing?
it is an example of how the whole scheme of payouts shoul dbe addressed, restructured etc.
these kind of mad payouts, money for cars etc shoul dbe stopped plus the dole cut in half.
people get their bills and medical cards paid for etc, a lot of the dole families I know have the large plasma tv screens that the paye working people cannot afford.
nothing racist about it, I want wholesale cuts to the welfare system and whoever is receiving it.
The needs to be more stringent controls over it too.
I know of people that who were away for australia for a couple of years and their sister in law's were collecting their dole money for them, and vice versa when that same sister in law went away travelling and the first person was back from oz.
All of this is wrong imo, I dont care if you call me snob, racist, right wing or whatever as I dont think I am any of these, I am however pretty pissed off with the grab all types and the inefficient departments in the public/civil service
Quote from: Gnevin on April 18, 2009, 12:11:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 17, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 10:21:51 PM
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
If he is getting €1,200 a month to cover his mortgage Interest at current rates his mortgage would be well over €500,000. Seems a bit odd for a guy earning €35,000.
Muppet , how much would you expect a person to be earning to get a 500k mortgage? Ball park will do?
Nowadays you would need to be earning well over the €100,000. Even at the height of the boom I don't think many banks were giving mortgages of 14 times people's income.
If the rate was 4% over 40 years his mortgage would have been over €2,000 (€2,200 over 35 years) a month or €24,000 p/a. Tricky for a guy on €35,000 with 4 kids.
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 18, 2009, 12:11:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 17, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 10:21:51 PM
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
If he is getting €1,200 a month to cover his mortgage Interest at current rates his mortgage would be well over €500,000. Seems a bit odd for a guy earning €35,000.
Muppet , how much would you expect a person to be earning to get a 500k mortgage? Ball park will do?
Nowadays you would need to be earning well over the €100,000. Even at the height of the boom I don't think many banks were giving mortgages of 14 times people's income.
If the rate was 4% over 40 years his mortgage would have been over €2,000 (€2,200 over 35 years) a month or €24,000 p/a. Tricky for a guy on €35,000 with 4 kids.
Cheers Muppet I know something didn't quite add up in the figures .
Quote from: Gnevin on April 18, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 18, 2009, 12:11:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 17, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 10:21:51 PM
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
If he is getting €1,200 a month to cover his mortgage Interest at current rates his mortgage would be well over €500,000. Seems a bit odd for a guy earning €35,000.
Muppet , how much would you expect a person to be earning to get a 500k mortgage? Ball park will do?
Nowadays you would need to be earning well over the €100,000. Even at the height of the boom I don't think many banks were giving mortgages of 14 times people's income.
If the rate was 4% over 40 years his mortgage would have been over €2,000 (€2,200 over 35 years) a month or €24,000 p/a. Tricky for a guy on €35,000 with 4 kids.
Cheers Muppet I know something didn't quite add up in the figures .
I didn't say it was impossible! Some crazy loans were handed out.
but if he was on a tracker then the current interest would be only 1.5% so i doubt it would need to be that much of a mortgage?
Quote from: ludermor on April 18, 2009, 03:18:35 PM
but if he was on a tracker then the current interest would be only 1.5% so i doubt it would need to be that much of a mortgage?
The letter said his interest was €1,200 a month.
You are saying that if he had a tracker at the current interest rate of 1.5% = €1,200 p/month.
1200 x 12 months =(Mortgage x1.5)/100
Mortgage= (1200 x 12 x 100)/1.5 = €960,000 which I would say is unlikely.
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: ludermor on April 18, 2009, 03:18:35 PM
but if he was on a tracker then the current interest would be only 1.5% so i doubt it would need to be that much of a mortgage?
The letter said his interest was €1,200 a month.
You are saying that if he had a tracker at the current interest rate of 1.5% = €1,200 p/month.
1200 x 12 months =(Mortgage x1.5)/100
Mortgage= (1200 x 12 x 100)/1.5 = €960,000 which I would say is unlikely.
But if he bought in the last year or two ( i havent read the article) then the interest would be the vast majority of his monthly payment ( over 90%?) so if his total payment was say 1400 it would make it more affordable or am i missing the point completely?
Quote from: ludermor on April 18, 2009, 04:08:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: ludermor on April 18, 2009, 03:18:35 PM
but if he was on a tracker then the current interest would be only 1.5% so i doubt it would need to be that much of a mortgage?
The letter said his interest was €1,200 a month.
You are saying that if he had a tracker at the current interest rate of 1.5% = €1,200 p/month.
1200 x 12 months =(Mortgage x1.5)/100
Mortgage= (1200 x 12 x 100)/1.5 = €960,000 which I would say is unlikely.
But if he bought in the last year or two ( i havent read the article) then the interest would be the vast majority of his monthly payment ( over 90%?) so if his total payment was say 1400 it would make it more affordable or am i missing the point completely?
The article said his interest at the moment was €1,200 a month out of a total monthly payment of €1,500.
I would say that the interest rate cuts haven't been passed on or the facts are from a few months ago in which case the €1,200 could equate to a 3% rate or higher. That would mean a smaller mortgage, but still would put it around €500,000 which would be crazy for a guy on €35,000.
why are you assuming this was a 40 year mortgage , most mortgages are 25 - 30 years which would leave his house which would leave his house around 300 - 350K
still crazy on 35k a year
Quote from: tyronefan on April 18, 2009, 04:29:25 PM
why are you assuming this was a 40 year mortgage , most mortgages are 25 - 30 years which would leave his house which would leave his house around 300 - 350K
still crazy on 35k a year
The term makes no difference to the interest.
€1,200 a month interest @ 4% equates to a €360,000 mortgage
€1,200 a month interest @ 3% equates to a €480,000 mortgage
€1,200 a month interest @ 2% equates to a €720,000 mortgage
oh no doubt even 300k would be crazy on a 35k wage but the banks were a joke. I remember about 4 years ago going to a broker asking what i could afford, my basic was 48 at the time. By the time i had left the broker had me convinced i could a mortgage of nearly 500k taking into account bonus and expenses. And the thing is i nearly considered it at the time but while i might have been able to afford it renting a room if i had it when the rates went up last year i would have been fucked.
Quote from: Gnevin on April 17, 2009, 11:31:08 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on April 17, 2009, 08:51:37 PM
its mental, social welfare should be a subsistence allowance period, anyone married with kids making under 50k is nuts for working
Were banks ever so bad that they where giving what I assume is a single wage a mortgage which required more than 50% of their wage a year in repayments. This story doesn't add up
?? didnt read the above example gnevin my point was on sw in general, its too much. they still didnt have the balls to cut it in the budget. some things drive me nuts like the uproar over free medical cards for everyone over 70, why anyone would argue that everyone no matter their worth should have free medical is beyond me
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 04:34:31 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on April 18, 2009, 04:29:25 PM
why are you assuming this was a 40 year mortgage , most mortgages are 25 - 30 years which would leave his house which would leave his house around 300 - 350K
still crazy on 35k a year
The term makes no difference to the interest.
€1,200 a month interest @ 4% equates to a €360,000 mortgage
€1,200 a month interest @ 3% equates to a €480,000 mortgage
€1,200 a month interest @ 2% equates to a €720,000 mortgage
I was looking at the 1500 / month but either way muppet there is no way you would 10 times your wages even in the crazy times much less the 480K or 720K
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 02:20:01 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 18, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 18, 2009, 12:11:34 AM
Quote from: muppet on April 17, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on April 16, 2009, 10:21:51 PM
Just thinking about this .
Do the figures given make sense?
35,000 lets assume no tax
18,000 P/A mortgage
17,000 Left
5,200 or 100 P/W food very low by the way
11,800
10,400 or 200 P/W electric and heat very low by the way
1400 left
For Car,Golf, School books, kids stuff etc ?
Am I missing something . Surely his wife is on something or someone is lying about his gross or the figures?
If he is getting €1,200 a month to cover his mortgage Interest at current rates his mortgage would be well over €500,000. Seems a bit odd for a guy earning €35,000.
Muppet , how much would you expect a person to be earning to get a 500k mortgage? Ball park will do?
Nowadays you would need to be earning well over the €100,000. Even at the height of the boom I don't think many banks were giving mortgages of 14 times people's income.
If the rate was 4% over 40 years his mortgage would have been over €2,000 (€2,200 over 35 years) a month or €24,000 p/a. Tricky for a guy on €35,000 with 4 kids.
Cheers Muppet I know something didn't quite add up in the figures .
I didn't say it was impossible! Some crazy loans were handed out.
I didn't say it was impossible either just said the figures didn't quite add up.
Quote from: tyronefan on April 18, 2009, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 18, 2009, 04:34:31 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on April 18, 2009, 04:29:25 PM
why are you assuming this was a 40 year mortgage , most mortgages are 25 - 30 years which would leave his house which would leave his house around 300 - 350K
still crazy on 35k a year
The term makes no difference to the interest.
€1,200 a month interest @ 4% equates to a €360,000 mortgage
€1,200 a month interest @ 3% equates to a €480,000 mortgage
€1,200 a month interest @ 2% equates to a €720,000 mortgage
I was looking at the 1500 / month but either way muppet there is no way you would 10 times your wages even in the crazy times much less the 480K or 720K
I agree, but I have heard of it happening.
jez it is any wonder the country is in the shape it's in :(