All-Ireland Final, September 18th, 2016 - Dublin v Mayo

[GalwayBayBoy]

James Horan questions Dublin bench

We're a little over a week out from the All-Ireland football final and the excitement is starting to ratchet up.

There's more talk about it now, more attention being focused on the two camps.

Usually, once the hurling final is done and dusted, all of our microscopes in the GAA world turn in the direction of the football decider and that is the case again now.

You can see the media interviews starting to filter through these last few days and over the coming week the thoughts and opinions of a lot of former players and analysts will be garnered.

These opinions and thoughts are vital to the build-up and colour of the game but as for the final itself are they important?

Not one bit. Unless there is something crazy said about one team in the lead up to the game the players won't even notice.

The media have a job to do and the players have a job to do as well. Simple as that. They are very different jobs and it's only between the white lines on Sunday week that the players will be concerned at what is happening.

Strength in depth

The first thing I would look at in striking a first blow of analysis is the strength in depth of both sides.

Essentially, this considers the use of subs and the strategy around their deployment.

In the past few seasons the bench has been an area where Dublin have been strong. Really strong. Indeed the perception is still there that they have an amazing bench.

But I would challenge that. With Kevin McManamon a guaranteed starter on final day, their firepower off the bench is considerably diminished as a result.

Yes, Paul Mannion looks fast and strong but he has little confidence in himself and loses a lot of ball in contact. Eoghan O'Gara is a real menace in fairness to him but he can be hit and miss too.

Dublin, for me, don't heavily outweigh Mayo in the subs department like some people feel they do.

Paddy Andrews is below his best form this year, although he is starting to come into his own again.

Denis Bastick is a very steady influence in the middle of the field and in defence outside of Michael Fitszimmons there is no real consistent cover.

On the other side I would feel that Mayo have a much strengthened bench that will add to the cause when needed.

Chris Barrett, if he doesn't start, is gaining as a player all the time. Tom Parsons, again if he doesn't start, will only add to their performance levels.

Conor O'Shea, Evan Regan and Conor Loftus have youth and pace on their side and will revel in the opening spaces if given the chance.

Both teams have ample cover up front but it is a little sketchy at the back. But Dublin, for me, don't heavily outweigh Mayo in the subs department like some people feel they do.

Discipline

Another area I would like to focus in on is the fact that Mayo are conceding too many scoreable frees.

I think there is some sloppy tackling going on with extending arms, which will always make it an easy decision for a ref to give a free, particularly against a McManamon or a Ciaran Kilkenny who look to engage the opposition.

Dublin will look to run at Mayo directly one on one from 55 yards out. They will feel they can get a high free count which will allow Dean Rock to step up and shine. Rock has been next to flawless all year long with his free-taking and it's a real bonus for the Dubs to be strong in this area.

As I have mentioned previously, take away the scores from frees for Dublin and there average margin and return from play goes way down, so this is an important point to make.

Mayo's tackling needs to be crisp and controlled, forcing the Dublin player to make the hard shot, not the soft free for Dean.

There is hope for Mayo if they can achieve this because Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn and Ciaran Kilkenny are off their normal shooting returns. So far anyway.

[joemamas]

On the face of it we have fifteen men playing fifteen men so why shouldn't either team win. Then you look at Dublin's phenomonel unbeaten run of twenty seven games against all-comers and you have to admit that they have to be a special team to achieve this. However in Mayo's favour it has to be conceded that each new victory in that unbeaten run brings the Dubs one game closer to the inevitable defeat.

A good chunk of those  27 teams were in Leinster so they wouldn't count. Flourbags and Taytobags are very poor by historic standards

So let's just discount beating the likes of Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Roscommon and Monaghan. And let's forget that Dublin have won the last four National League titles.

Where were all these knockout games played? How come ye have to have all your games at home?

So it's hardly worth Mayo's time travelling.... So much for always looking on the bright side of life.

It's always worth travelling for the pints of porter after the game with Dubs win lose or draw ( normally lose!!) and I for one will be raising a pint glass in recognition of a great achievement of back to back titles for a great Dublin team.

As long as none of the pubs have the Sunday game on with all the Mayo god Help us stuff being spouted I will be happy enough with my pint of plain!!!
Sure we tried our best not to get into the final this year so we wouldn't ruin it for everyone else!!

It will be a pity though when the likes of O'Rourke , Spillane and Brolly won't give the Dubs the credit for back to back All Irelands because the only beat Mayo but the the last two back to back titles came for Cork who beat us in 89 first and Kerry who beat us in 06 first so at least you got the hard title out of the way last year which should give you some street cred over the Kingdom and the Rebels!!

Right I am off to watch ESPN 30 for 30 the Four Falls of Buffalo to get myself ready for the inevitable on the 18th!

Leaving aside all the bluff and bluster on both sides this is a 50/50 game with Mayo definitely having every chance of winning. We only have to remember the drawn semi-final last year to see that there is nothing between the teams. As a Dubs supporter I wouldn't be at all confident.

Being serious Hill is Blue , most Mayo fans would see it as 60/40 or 70/30 for the Dubs  mainly due to you having the edge over us in terms of firepower(starting and coming off the bench) and the patchy form which has persisted in every game bar the Tyrone game.

Up front while Andy is having an indian summer and Aidan is improving steadily in every game the rest of our forwards are struggling for consistent form including Cillian , DO'C , Jason Doc and Evan Regan. Much like they team the have flashed top form in games but don't seem to be able to sustain it.

Yeah the Dubs have lost O'Carroll and McCaffrey but Mayo have no recognised fullback with Caff being out for the year and Kevin Keane operating at best around 50% because of his shoulder problem!

The lack of Hype in Mayo , while we would all like to think we are the second coming of cute Kerry hoors , it is more down to weariness amongst the fans of coming up short to the best in a final/semi final and the realisation that this Dublin team are superb unit in terms of talent and team , maybe the best of the modern era , so there are not many weaknesses to exploit.

Do I think we can win on the 18th? Yes absolutely we are very close and have been for the last 4 years but if you asked me what I honestly expect to happen I would say it is the Dubs by 4 or 5 points in the end because when you stack the team personnel , form , squad depth up against each other then that is the logical outcome with both teams performing near to 100%.

If Mayo do finally do it this year it will have nothing to do with , a lack of hype , coming in under the radar , complacent Dubs , hunger ,luck or the ref etc.. it will be because we outworked , out thought and out performed the Dubs on the day. How does this happen? Well I think we will have to be operating close to 100% and the Dubs need to be 5 or 10% below the norm and we have to set up in away so we can move the Dubs out of their patterns at the start and again on the last 10 mins of the game.Conceding no goals is necessary because I don't think we have any hope in a shoot out and we will have to hold the Dubs to 13 or 14 points to have any chance.

Excellent and honest analysis, IMO you have summed up a lot of Mayo fans feelings and expectations.

This will be All-Ireland number nine for me, including draws.

I have said this before, I really respect what this group have done for Mayo football. How could you not. They have made us proud to be Mayo people.

Tactically we are more astute, however,  I feel our lack of firepower up front may be our undoing, in addition to the fact that we are most likely meeting the most athletically talented team I have probably ever seen playing the game. Population issues dictate that of course, but not going there today.

Crete like yourself I hope I am wrong.

[JoG2]

On the face of it we have fifteen men playing fifteen men so why shouldn't either team win. Then you look at Dublin's phenomonel unbeaten run of twenty seven games against all-comers and you have to admit that they have to be a special team to achieve this. However in Mayo's favour it has to be conceded that each new victory in that unbeaten run brings the Dubs one game closer to the inevitable defeat.

A good chunk of those  27 teams were in Leinster so they wouldn't count. Flourbags and Taytobags are very poor by historic standards

So let's just discount beating the likes of Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Roscommon and Monaghan. And let's forget that Dublin have won the last four National League titles.

Where were all these knockout games played? How come ye have to have all your games at home?

So it's hardly worth Mayo's time travelling.... So much for always looking on the bright side of life.

It's always worth travelling for the pints of porter after the game with Dubs win lose or draw ( normally lose!!) and I for one will be raising a pint glass in recognition of a great achievement of back to back titles for a great Dublin team.

As long as none of the pubs have the Sunday game on with all the Mayo god Help us stuff being spouted I will be happy enough with my pint of plain!!!
Sure we tried our best not to get into the final this year so we wouldn't ruin it for everyone else!!

It will be a pity though when the likes of O'Rourke , Spillane and Brolly won't give the Dubs the credit for back to back All Irelands because the only beat Mayo but the the last two back to back titles came for Cork who beat us in 89 first and Kerry who beat us in 06 first so at least you got the hard title out of the way last year which should give you some street cred over the Kingdom and the Rebels!!

Right I am off to watch ESPN 30 for 30 the Four Falls of Buffalo to get myself ready for the inevitable on the 18th!

Leaving aside all the bluff and bluster on both sides this is a 50/50 game with Mayo definitely having every chance of winning. We only have to remember the drawn semi-final last year to see that there is nothing between the teams. As a Dubs supporter I wouldn't be at all confident.

Being serious Hill is Blue , most Mayo fans would see it as 60/40 or 70/30 for the Dubs  mainly due to you having the edge over us in terms of firepower(starting and coming off the bench) and the patchy form which has persisted in every game bar the Tyrone game.

Up front while Andy is having an indian summer and Aidan is improving steadily in every game the rest of our forwards are struggling for consistent form including Cillian , DO'C , Jason Doc and Evan Regan. Much like they team the have flashed top form in games but don't seem to be able to sustain it.

Yeah the Dubs have lost O'Carroll and McCaffrey but Mayo have no recognised fullback with Caff being out for the year and Kevin Keane operating at best around 50% because of his shoulder problem!

The lack of Hype in Mayo , while we would all like to think we are the second coming of cute Kerry hoors , it is more down to weariness amongst the fans of coming up short to the best in a final/semi final and the realisation that this Dublin team are superb unit in terms of talent and team , maybe the best of the modern era , so there are not many weaknesses to exploit.

Do I think we can win on the 18th? Yes absolutely we are very close and have been for the last 4 years but if you asked me what I honestly expect to happen I would say it is the Dubs by 4 or 5 points in the end because when you stack the team personnel , form , squad depth up against each other then that is the logical outcome with both teams performing near to 100%.

If Mayo do finally do it this year it will have nothing to do with , a lack of hype , coming in under the radar , complacent Dubs , hunger ,luck or the ref etc.. it will be because we outworked , out thought and out performed the Dubs on the day. How does this happen? Well I think we will have to be operating close to 100% and the Dubs need to be 5 or 10% below the norm and we have to set up in away so we can move the Dubs out of their patterns at the start and again on the last 10 mins of the game.Conceding no goals is necessary because I don't think we have any hope in a shoot out and we will have to hold the Dubs to 13 or 14 points to have any chance.

superb post. When you look through the Mayo panel, there's some serious operators in every sector of the pitch and have defenders to look after a few of the Dublin big hitters, well as best as any players can. If it all comes together on the day, Mayo can absolutely win this game. I'd very rarely have a look over on Hoganstand, but had a read through a few threads there. There's some amount of balloons posting on that site and they'll be a lot of Dubs giving the old internet a wide birth if Mayo do pull the rabbit out of the hat ! Up Achill, Up Muranny, Up the Greenway, Up big Bald Grainne, Up McGings, UP MAYO ye boy ye!

[Crete Boom]

On the face of it we have fifteen men playing fifteen men so why shouldn't either team win. Then you look at Dublin's phenomonel unbeaten run of twenty seven games against all-comers and you have to admit that they have to be a special team to achieve this. However in Mayo's favour it has to be conceded that each new victory in that unbeaten run brings the Dubs one game closer to the inevitable defeat.

A good chunk of those  27 teams were in Leinster so they wouldn't count. Flourbags and Taytobags are very poor by historic standards

So let's just discount beating the likes of Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Roscommon and Monaghan. And let's forget that Dublin have won the last four National League titles.

Where were all these knockout games played? How come ye have to have all your games at home?

So it's hardly worth Mayo's time travelling.... So much for always looking on the bright side of life.

It's always worth travelling for the pints of porter after the game with Dubs win lose or draw ( normally lose!!) and I for one will be raising a pint glass in recognition of a great achievement of back to back titles for a great Dublin team.

As long as none of the pubs have the Sunday game on with all the Mayo god Help us stuff being spouted I will be happy enough with my pint of plain!!!
Sure we tried our best not to get into the final this year so we wouldn't ruin it for everyone else!!

It will be a pity though when the likes of O'Rourke , Spillane and Brolly won't give the Dubs the credit for back to back All Irelands because the only beat Mayo but the the last two back to back titles came for Cork who beat us in 89 first and Kerry who beat us in 06 first so at least you got the hard title out of the way last year which should give you some street cred over the Kingdom and the Rebels!!

Right I am off to watch ESPN 30 for 30 the Four Falls of Buffalo to get myself ready for the inevitable on the 18th!

Leaving aside all the bluff and bluster on both sides this is a 50/50 game with Mayo definitely having every chance of winning. We only have to remember the drawn semi-final last year to see that there is nothing between the teams. As a Dubs supporter I wouldn't be at all confident.

Being serious Hill is Blue , most Mayo fans would see it as 60/40 or 70/30 for the Dubs  mainly due to you having the edge over us in terms of firepower(starting and coming off the bench) and the patchy form which has persisted in every game bar the Tyrone game.

Up front while Andy is having an indian summer and Aidan is improving steadily in every game the rest of our forwards are struggling for consistent form including Cillian , DO'C , Jason Doc and Evan Regan. Much like they team the have flashed top form in games but don't seem to be able to sustain it.

Yeah the Dubs have lost O'Carroll and McCaffrey but Mayo have no recognised fullback with Caff being out for the year and Kevin Keane operating at best around 50% because of his shoulder problem!

The lack of Hype in Mayo , while we would all like to think we are the second coming of cute Kerry hoors , it is more down to weariness amongst the fans of coming up short to the best in a final/semi final and the realisation that this Dublin team are superb unit in terms of talent and team , maybe the best of the modern era , so there are not many weaknesses to exploit.

Do I think we can win on the 18th? Yes absolutely we are very close and have been for the last 4 years but if you asked me what I honestly expect to happen I would say it is the Dubs by 4 or 5 points in the end because when you stack the team personnel , form , squad depth up against each other then that is the logical outcome with both teams performing near to 100%.

If Mayo do finally do it this year it will have nothing to do with , a lack of hype , coming in under the radar , complacent Dubs , hunger ,luck or the ref etc.. it will be because we outworked , out thought and out performed the Dubs on the day. How does this happen? Well I think we will have to be operating close to 100% and the Dubs need to be 5 or 10% below the norm and we have to set up in away so we can move the Dubs out of their patterns at the start and again on the last 10 mins of the game.Conceding no goals is necessary because I don't think we have any hope in a shoot out and we will have to hold the Dubs to 13 or 14 points to have any chance.

Excellent and honest analysis, IMO you have summed up a lot of Mayo fans feelings and expectations.

This will be All-Ireland number nine for me, including draws.

I have said this before, I really respect what this group have done for Mayo football. How could you not. They have made us proud to be Mayo people.

Tactically we are more astute, however,  I feel our lack of firepower up front may be our undoing, in addition to the fact that we are most likely meeting the most athletically talented team I have probably ever seen playing the game. Population issues dictate that of course, but not going there today.

Crete like yourself I hope I am wrong.

Number 9 for me too Joemamas!! God I feel old just remembering the joy and hope I felt when Larry hit that goal in 89 and now I will be watching his son looking for goals in the minor final  , in the maroon of Galway to add insult to injury!!

[Jinxy]

Hope he doesn't go starting any rows....

[Crete Boom]

Hope he doesn't go starting any rows....

Sure it'll be grand if there is any Meath men in the ground the will all make a bee line for wherever Liam Mac is just like all those years ago!!

[seafoid]

2014 was very hard for Mayo based on comments here  . If ye had been told the team would be back in the final within 2 years with a manager who knows how to win it might have looked different. Mayo are definitely good enough.

[Farrandeelin]

Hope he doesn't go starting any rows....

Sure it'll be grand if there is any Meath men in the ground the will all make a bee line for wherever Liam Mac is just like all those years ago!!

20. This year, where has the time gone,

[Cunny Funt]

I for one haven't forgotten how good Mayo were last year and the year before (not to mention 2012 and 2013)  when they had claims to be the best team in Ireland.

Am very fearful of Mayo tbh.

Last year and years before was then and this is now. Be truly honest, is Mayos form of 2016 something Dublin should be fearful of?

[The Hill is Blue]

I for one haven't forgotten how good Mayo were last year and the year before (not to mention 2012 and 2013)  when they had claims to be the best team in Ireland.

Am very fearful of Mayo tbh.

Last year and years before was then and this is now. Be truly honest, is Mayos form of 2016 something Dublin should be fearful of?

I still remember the shock of Dublin losing to Donegal in 1992. No Dublin supporter saw that coming. When it comes to a final previous form goes out the window and anything can happen.

[Chimley]

I for one haven't forgotten how good Mayo were last year and the year before (not to mention 2012 and 2013)  when they had claims to be the best team in Ireland.

Am very fearful of Mayo tbh.

Last year and years before was then and this is now. Be truly honest, is Mayos form of 2016 something Dublin should be fearful of?

I still remember the shock of Dublin losing to Donegal in 1992. No Dublin supporter saw that coming. When it comes to a final previous form goes out the window and anything can happen.

I've been following Mayo football for too long now but I've maintained since 2004 that we'd need to fall over the line for our first AI win even if we were patently the better team. I still say that will be the case when it happens. Who knows if that day is Sunday week.

[Cunny Funt]

I for one haven't forgotten how good Mayo were last year and the year before (not to mention 2012 and 2013)  when they had claims to be the best team in Ireland.

Am very fearful of Mayo tbh.

Last year and years before was then and this is now. Be truly honest, is Mayos form of 2016 something Dublin should be fearful of?

I still remember the shock of Dublin losing to Donegal in 1992. No Dublin supporter saw that coming. When it comes to a final previous form goes out the window and anything can happen.

Standard and quality wise you can't even compare the 1992 Dublin team with the current one that is aiming for 4 All Irelands in 6 years. 1991 to 1994 Sam spent its years in Ulster making that 1992 result less of a shock now in hindsight.

Form from my memory has held up fairly well in senior AI finals however I'm not sure what hindsight could be used if Mayo in their 2016 form won this final against what is regarded by many as the greatest Dublin team of All time.

[The Hill is Blue]

I for one haven't forgotten how good Mayo were last year and the year before (not to mention 2012 and 2013)  when they had claims to be the best team in Ireland.

Am very fearful of Mayo tbh.

Last year and years before was then and this is now. Be truly honest, is Mayos form of 2016 something Dublin should be fearful of?

I still remember the shock of Dublin losing to Donegal in 1992. No Dublin supporter saw that coming. When it comes to a final previous form goes out the window and anything can happen.

Standard and quality wise you can't even compare the 1992 Dublin team with the current one that is aiming for 4 All Irelands in 6 years. 1991 to 1994 Sam spent its years in Ulster making that 1992 result less of a shock now in hindsight.

Form from my memory has held up fairly well in senior AI finals however I'm not sure what hindsight could be used if Mayo in their 2016 form won this final against what is regarded by many as the greatest Dublin team of All time.

The Dublin team of the early 90s was a little like the current Mayo team. They contested three finals in four years and finally fell over the line at their last attempt. Of course Mayo could do it on Sunday week - and with more style than Dublin did in 1995.

[Captain Obvious]

Dublin 1995 was the worst team I have ever seen win the senior football All Ireland. Dublin had to wait until 2011 to reach another All Ireland final but look at them now 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The Dublin team of the early 90s was a little like the current Mayo team. They contested three finals in four years and finally fell over the line at their last attempt. Of course Mayo could do it on Sunday week - and with more style than Dublin did in 1995.

If they get a referee equally blind to and ignorant of the rules perhaps, ie, if a player is sent off he actually has to leave the field of play (no offence Charlie, you beaut ya), and when a bouncing ball is flicked up it actually isn't a foul off the frigging ground!*

* But we're not bitter.