I think the Dubs are up for this and after their challenge game against Cork they are rearing to go. This will be a huge game for Dubs and for some reason or other I think they could pull it off.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 18, 2012, 08:58:29 AM
I think the Dubs are up for this and after their challenge game against Cork they are rearing to go. This will be a huge game for Dubs and for some reason or other I think they could pull it off.
Dubs raring to go.
I think we'll give it a good lash but think Kilkenny will want to put a marker down and will meet fire with fire.
Quote from: heffo on June 18, 2012, 09:24:38 AM
I think we'll give it a good lash but think Kilkenny will want to put a marker down and will meet fire with fire.
That's the only way to play Kilkenny. Dish the rough stuff back at them twice as hard.
Quote from: heffo on June 18, 2012, 09:24:38 AM
I think we'll give it a good lash but think Kilkenny will want to put a marker down and will meet fire with fire.
Sounds like there's been a lot of timber broken in training recently.
Extra stretchers have been ordered for Sunday.
Barry Kelly and the St. John's ambulance crew will have their hands full here.
Looked during the league like a lot of the Dublin players had bulked up a lot. The thing is, that Kilkenny always play on the very edge of the rules. Can Dublin be disciplined but physical enough at the same time?
I was chatting a couple of lads in Thurles yesterday who reckoned that the Clare team have put up as much as a stone a man in muscle weight since Davy took them over. Looks like another wave of phsyicality is coming from the West.
It's not that many years ago you would see a group of Dublin players all around a ball like someone trying to kill rats at a threshing. Since then their skill levels have upped considerably and that is the difference. This thing about Kilkenny playing on the edge as regards being physical is getting a bit tiresome, they play the game as it is supposed to be played. Henry Shefflin, DJ Carey for example I would consider their two best players over the last ten, fifteen years, neither of them were that physical or did they ever get sent off?
Jackie Tyrell for example was a walking saint ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__L1NiWbruI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__L1NiWbruI)
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 19, 2012, 08:01:35 AM
It's not that many years ago you would see a group of Dublin players all around a ball like someone trying to kill rats at a threshing. Since then their skill levels have upped considerably and that is the difference. This thing about Kilkenny playing on the edge as regards being physical is getting a bit tiresome, they play the game as it is supposed to be played. Henry Shefflin, DJ Carey for example I would consider their two best players over the last ten, fifteen years, neither of them were that physical or did they ever get sent off?
Jackie Tyrell for example was a walking saint ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__L1NiWbruI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__L1NiWbruI)
Walking saint surely
Roll on Saturday and Sunday - nothing beats being there!
Don't want to miss this one.
Hopefully the Dubs can give them a rattle. Kilkenny don't hold back for anyone, they don't stay on top by being nice. This would be a huge win for the Dubs but I wonder how they could have improved by that much after coming up short in the league.
Quote from: thejuice on June 19, 2012, 11:03:24 AM
Don't want to miss this one.
Hopefully the Dubs can give them a rattle. Kilkenny don't hold back for anyone, they don't stay on top by being nice. This would be a huge win for the Dubs but I wonder how they could have improved by that much after coming up short in the league.
Hope Daly sets up Dublin to go toe to toe with Kilkenny! I hate that deploying an extra defender as realistically its a damage limitation exercise where you're more or less admitting defeat.
Dublin had a poor league, but if the injuries are clearing up can have a real go and will still at worst be in the qualifiers.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 19, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
Quote from: thejuice on June 19, 2012, 11:03:24 AM
Don't want to miss this one.
Hopefully the Dubs can give them a rattle. Kilkenny don't hold back for anyone, they don't stay on top by being nice. This would be a huge win for the Dubs but I wonder how they could have improved by that much after coming up short in the league.
I couldn't agree with ya less there Johnny, sorry. I believe that against a team as special as Kilkenny you've got to do whatever you can to stay close to them and not be blown away. If they can stop Kilkenny getting in for goals they'll give themselves a chance. They got a bit of criticism for using that tactic against Tipp last year but there were only 3 points in it at the end (1-18 to 0-18) in a game that they could have won. I'm not sure that going man - to - man straight up against Larkin, Reid, Power, Hogan etc would be that wise, good and all as the Dublin backs are.
Hope Daly sets up Dublin to go toe to toe with Kilkenny! I hate that deploying an extra defender as realistically its a damage limitation exercise where you're more or less admitting defeat.
Dublin had a poor league, but if the injuries are clearing up can have a real go and will still at worst be in the qualifiers.
Have a feeling this game will be bumper car hurling given how tight the pitch is in Portlaoise.
Honestly think that KK will beat us on Saturday and strangely enough that we could take them later in the season in CP if and it is a big "if" we get to play them again.
Don't think the cruciate trio have enough hurling behind them at the moment and think that the wide expances (sic) of CP will suit Treacy and Sutcliffe better. Treacy is a player I rate very highly and if he is in form Dublin can beat anyone.
For me KK by 5.
Quote from: Canalman on June 19, 2012, 03:13:53 PM
Have a feeling this game will be bumper car hurling given how tight the pitch is in Portlaoise.
Honestly think that KK will beat us on Saturday and strangely enough that we could take them later in the season in CP if and it is a big "if" we get to play them again.
Don't think the cruciate trio have enough hurling behind them at the moment and think that the wide expances (sic) of CP will suit Treacy and Sutcliffe better. Treacy is a player I rate very highly and if he is in form Dublin can beat anyone.
For me KK by 5.
Would agree with that - not conceding an early goal is key.
Too often KK get an early goal and it knocks the stuffing out of teams - keeping it tight for as long as possible is vital.
Would love to see us do it but my head says the Cats with a few to spare
Still say Dubs by about four points, if Ryan O'Dywer behaves himself although I suspect he has been told he will be exiled to Clarecastle or Doorabarefield if he does'nt. Yep, Dub's by 4 points.
O'Dwyer in for Tracey - Dubs obviously going for physicality - I'd expect plenty of rotation in the half/FF lines.
Spread is 6 points I think, don't think KK will beat it and will hope for the best.
Can't wait for this. Up the Dubs. Now where's that soap?
Quote from: heffo on June 19, 2012, 03:21:55 PM
Quote from: Canalman on June 19, 2012, 03:13:53 PM
Have a feeling this game will be bumper car hurling given how tight the pitch is in Portlaoise.
Honestly think that KK will beat us on Saturday and strangely enough that we could take them later in the season in CP if and it is a big "if" we get to play them again.
Don't think the cruciate trio have enough hurling behind them at the moment and think that the wide expances (sic) of CP will suit Treacy and Sutcliffe better. Treacy is a player I rate very highly and if he is in form Dublin can beat anyone.
For me KK by 5.
Would agree with that - not conceding an early goal is key.
Too often KK get an early goal and it knocks the stuffing out of teams - keeping it tight for as long as possible is vital.
Not conceding an early goal is indeed vital, but I don't think you need to play an extra man in defence to do that. I was really impressed by the Dublin defence last year and think they could go man for man with Kilkenny.
The additional man in defence allows Kilkenny to dominate in their own half of the pitch and still have the ability to pick out forwards and score from distance. You may keep the scores close, but you'll never beat them at it as they're very experienced at counteracting it.
Has any team beat them doing it? Tipp certainly didn't do it the AI before last.
Keep their half backs busy and out the field, leaving as much space in front of their fullback line as possibly, but Hogan will always stay deep if he can. That's the only way to get goals against them IMO.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 22, 2012, 12:12:06 PM
Quote from: heffo on June 19, 2012, 03:21:55 PM
Quote from: Canalman on June 19, 2012, 03:13:53 PM
Have a feeling this game will be bumper car hurling given how tight the pitch is in Portlaoise.
Honestly think that KK will beat us on Saturday and strangely enough that we could take them later in the season in CP if and it is a big "if" we get to play them again.
Don't think the cruciate trio have enough hurling behind them at the moment and think that the wide expances (sic) of CP will suit Treacy and Sutcliffe better. Treacy is a player I rate very highly and if he is in form Dublin can beat anyone.
For me KK by 5.
Would agree with that - not conceding an early goal is key.
Too often KK get an early goal and it knocks the stuffing out of teams - keeping it tight for as long as possible is vital.
Not conceding an early goal is indeed vital, but I don't think you need to play an extra man in defence to do that. I was really impressed by the Dublin defence last year and think they could go man for man with Kilkenny.
The additional man in defence allows Kilkenny to dominate in their own half of the pitch and still have the ability to pick out forwards and score from distance. You may keep the scores close, but you'll never beat them at it as they're very experienced at counteracting it.
Has any team beat them doing it? Tipp certainly didn't do it the AI before last.
Keep their half backs busy and out the field, leaving as much space in front of their fullback line as possibly, but Hogan will always stay deep if he can. That's the only way to get goals against them IMO.
Don't think we'll play a sweeper.
Would imagine O'Dwyer will float around hf/ff lines and come out for puckouts.
Dotsy & Treacy to come on in second half when game has (hopefully!) opened up.
Dublin seemed very well conditioned last year and seem to be extremely fit and physical. They were unlucky with injuries, really could have pushed on from the league win. How many players are Dublin missing now due to injuries? What kind of form is Keaney in considering he is probably not long back, is he anywhere near his best?
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2012, 01:46:06 PM
Dublin seemed very well conditioned last year and seem to be extremely fit and physical. They were unlucky with injuries, really could have pushed on from the league win. How many players are Dublin missing now due to injuries? What kind of form is Keaney in considering he is probably not long back, is he anywhere near his best?
Three unavailable for KK game.
It's probably a couple of games too early for any of the three cruciate lads to be near their best.
Quote from: heffo on June 22, 2012, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2012, 01:46:06 PM
Dublin seemed very well conditioned last year and seem to be extremely fit and physical. They were unlucky with injuries, really could have pushed on from the league win. How many players are Dublin missing now due to injuries? What kind of form is Keaney in considering he is probably not long back, is he anywhere near his best?
Three unavailable for KK game.
It's probably a couple of games too early for any of the three cruciate lads to be near their best.
What three are missing?
It was a shame last year to see the progress they made and then for 3 key men to be unavailable for the curcial matches. Hopefully they get somewhere near their best and Dublin are still in the Championship. Be interesting to see how far the strongest Dublin 15 could go.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2012, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: heffo on June 22, 2012, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2012, 01:46:06 PM
Dublin seemed very well conditioned last year and seem to be extremely fit and physical. They were unlucky with injuries, really could have pushed on from the league win. How many players are Dublin missing now due to injuries? What kind of form is Keaney in considering he is probably not long back, is he anywhere near his best?
Three unavailable for KK game.
It's probably a couple of games too early for any of the three cruciate lads to be near their best.
What three are missing?
It was a shame last year to see the progress they made and then for 3 key men to be unavailable for the curcial matches. Hopefully they get somewhere near their best and Dublin are still in the Championship. Be interesting to see how far the strongest Dublin 15 could go.
Quilty (Cruciate), Schutte (Knee) and one other - the first two would've featured.
Considering the injuries we had for the league, it's practically a full bill of health.
Kilkenny by 7
I think Dublin is the only side that are able to physically stand up to Kilkenny.
I expect to see a fair bit of skelping from start to finish and I certainly feel that the Dubs will be still in it up to the final whistle.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they happen to win. .
I'm hoping that they will.
2nd gear.
Cats 10 points up at the break having played against the wind too. Game has been a major disappointment so far.
Quote from: hardstation on June 23, 2012, 06:12:03 PM
Good and all as Kilkenny are, the Dubs have brought sweet fcuk all to the table. Dire.
Kilkenny haven't had to be that good. Getting embarrassing now.
Worst Dublin performance in years - shocking
Not a match at all. very disappointing from the Dubs.
Not too many seen this coming. Even the most ardent or anti KK fan didn't count on this.
Only caught the second half but couldnt understand the dubs overdoing the short passing on such a bad day. Looked like they had had a system drilled into them that didnt suit the conditions but they kept persisting with. They didnt look great.
What was that? What happened?
I went down before the minor game to get tickets for the stand because I had a young lad with me and they were all sold out. After four hours standing in the pissing rain staring across into a stand with at least 150 empty seats I was thinking to myself "if Dublin could give Laois as big a beating in Tullamore a few weeks ago and are now getting as big a one themselves today, then maybe its time for me to stop dreaming and realize that one of the best games in the world can only be played by five or six teams?"
On the wireless coming back Mr Cody was saying, "Ah probably the weather conditions did not suit them" and maybe he is right, maybe if every county board had the same funding and training facilities because the weather conditions in La Manga or Portugal seem to have a distinct detrimental effect compared to running around a field in Ballygunner or Ballyhale.
I blame Daly for yesterday's debacle the same as I would have blamed the minor manager had they lost that game (hurling a ball into the same 50mtr square area where the right full back and half back was cleaning them out and they had two of the best players on the field on the other side, not to mention going for a goal from a 20mtr free in the first three minutes that could have cost them in the end)
Cats did what they liked yesterday, Richie Power won balls that looked good but the challenges were both late and weak. Only for Gary Maguire it would have been 5-21 0-9.
How could a team that has all the skills, or at least enough to put up a better challenge than what I witnessed yesterday fall apart like this? In think the answer for that is more related to Anthony Daly than Anthony Daly's team and he does not have much time to find it. The least he should be capable of doing is to shoulder some of the blame for what happened yesterday and get this team back in contention for a decent challenge through the back door.
(Said a shocked Bud Wiser after waking up with a sore head :o)
Hard to know what to say after that. You can accept being outhurled by KK, but they were better than us in every department. Outfought us, worked harder.
Awful performance by the players, but Daly (who has had an easy ride of it critics-wise) will half to take his share of the blame for awful tactics which didn't change when it was obvious they weren't working.
Dublin will struggle to come back from this defeat.
Daly might get another year, but the game is up for him.
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 24, 2012, 07:22:02 AM
What was that? What happened?
I went down before the minor game to get tickets for the stand because I had a young lad with me and they were all sold out. After four hours standing in the pissing rain staring across into a stand with at least 150 empty seats
I bet the 150 empty seats were Dublin fans who got lost on the way down or thought the Luas went to Portlaoise.
That time their footballers played in Thurles, most of them turned back half way down when they realised how far they had to travel.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on June 26, 2012, 10:23:07 AM
Quote from: Bud Wiser on June 24, 2012, 07:22:02 AM
What was that? What happened?
I went down before the minor game to get tickets for the stand because I had a young lad with me and they were all sold out. After four hours standing in the pissing rain staring across into a stand with at least 150 empty seats
I bet the 150 empty seats were Dublin fans who got lost on the way down or thought the Luas went to Portlaoise.
That time their footballers played in Thurles, most of them turned back half way down when they realised how far they had to travel.
Have the Dubs drawn Clare down in Ennis?
That'll be proper championship hurling, do dog, shite the license stuff for both of them.
Yep, down in Ennis. If it rains that'll cut up like a mudbath.
This article is very good
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0627/1224318804371.html#
The championship itself is damaged because everyone wants a more competitive environment and yet counties are finding it impossible to emulate Kilkenny's high standards. But for the perfect storm of Tipperary's freewheeling tactics and Kilkenny's injuries in 2010, would we be looking at a seven-in-a-row this September?
Dublin are also emblematic of the possibilities of social mobility in hurling – an encouragement that if a county expends effort and resources in developing the game and pushing hard for senior progress – so for the team to crumble to the sort of defeat that was commonplace before the hoped-for revolution questions counties' ability ever to break out of tradition's straitjacket.
But that's the way it always has been. The big three of Kilkenny, Cork and Tipperary have dominated the game since its inception and more than ever in the past 14 seasons. That's why Golden Ages (1950s, '90s and to an extent the '80s) are deemed to have occurred when other counties can mount a sustained and meaningful challenge.
By the looks of things we'll be waiting a while for the next one.
Yeah much as I admire Kilkenny for being the greatest team of all time it's ( and I don't like saying it as it's unfair to Kilkenny) killing the championship buzz. If you took Kilkenny out of it Tipp would be hot favorites but 5 or 6 other counties would really fancy their chances too. If there is a God then Galway will beat the Cats in the Leinster Final. It's a big If though.
I don't buy Tipp being part of the big 3 any more. It's more like a duopoly and at the moment Cork aren't at the races.
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2012, 01:53:18 PM
I don't buy Tipp being part of the big 3 any more. It's more like a duopoly and at the moment Cork aren't at the races.
You mean Tipperary and Kilkenny are now the big 2 in hurling.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on June 27, 2012, 02:47:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2012, 01:53:18 PM
I don't buy Tipp being part of the big 3 any more. It's more like a duopoly and at the moment Cork aren't at the races.
You mean Tipperary and Kilkenny are now the big 2 in hurling.
No. I believe Tipp won 2 all irelands in the last 20 years. I wouldn't call that dominance.
Galway won the same in football. Doesn't mean they are a powerhouse.
If the Galway hurlers got organised 2 all Irelands would be do-able in the next 2 decades. I can't see Tipperary winning all before them .
All this imperial Tipp stuff is way over the top IMO. Tipp are more like Down are in football
If the Galway hurlers got organised 2 all Irelands would be do-able in the next 2 decades.
Ah Jaysus Seafoid,aunts uncles balls etc.....
I agree with the gist of your argument though,most other counties would fancy their chances against Tipp on any given day just like Tipp are probably the only team at the moment who genuinely believe that they can beat the cats, of course actually doing it is another matter.
I think Galway and Cork would also give themselves a chance on any given day against Kilkenny. They'd be wrong 7-9 times out of 10, but they'd still think it.
The cats are way ahead of everyone. Tipp are closest. Cork will be back.
Galway need a few years of build up but should be challenging for honours. I think they need to get to a semifinal first though :o. The rest are at various stages of plodding along.
Yeah, Tipp are beatable. So I don't think it is Old Firm all the way.
And 3 years of KK-Tipp finals is enough, frankly.
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2012, 04:35:01 PM
The cats are way ahead of everyone. Tipp are closest. Cork will be back.
Galway need a few years of build up but should be challenging for honours. I think they need to get to a semifinal first though :o. The rest are at various stages of plodding along.
Yeah, Tipp are beatable. So I don't think it is Old Firm all the way.
And 3 years of KK-Tipp finals is enough, frankly.
I dont agree that the cats are way ahead of everyone, i firmly believe that we have 20 hurlers to beat Kilkenny in Croke Park,the problem is keeping those 20 lads fit,in the right frame of mind and most importantly in the right positions,thats the difference between the cats and the rest,they can fall below 100% and still beat anyone,we will need all our ducks in a row but it isnt impossible.
Quote from: homeofhurling8 on June 27, 2012, 04:43:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2012, 04:35:01 PM
The cats are way ahead of everyone. Tipp are closest. Cork will be back.
Galway need a few years of build up but should be challenging for honours. I think they need to get to a semifinal first though :o. The rest are at various stages of plodding along.
Yeah, Tipp are beatable. So I don't think it is Old Firm all the way.
And 3 years of KK-Tipp finals is enough, frankly.
I dont agree that the cats are way ahead of everyone, i firmly believe that we have 20 hurlers to beat Kilkenny in Croke Park,the problem is keeping those 20 lads fit,in the right frame of mind and most importantly in the right positions,thats the difference between the cats and the rest,they can fall below 100% and still beat anyone,we will need all our ducks in a row but it isnt impossible.
I meant over the last 13 years. How many all Irelands? Is it 8 ? Savage.
How long will Tipp be able to keep up the tempo with this team ?
Kilkenny have become a tribute to human endeavour. That's how good they are.
Quote from: Ard-Rí on June 28, 2012, 04:07:40 AM
Kilkenny have become a tribute to human endeavour. That's how good they are.
It also helps Kilkenny that they spent the last decade in a cakewalk of a province where they only needed to start hurling in August.
It's hardly much different than Galway needing to win 2 games to win the All Ireland in the 80s.
As opposed to Munster with the powerhouses of Limerick and Clare over the last 10 years? the only teams that can live with Kilkenny are Tipp and Cork. Maybe ye should go off and form your own province :)
In the last 10 years, 5 teams from Munster (including Clare and Limerick) have got to the All Ireland final.
Only one team from Leinster (Kilkenny) has made it there.
And if Kilkenny were in Munster, maybe only 2 teams from Munster would have made it. Offaly and Wexford are not a million miles off Limerick and Clare, albeit a bit poorer. Cork, Waterford, Dublin and Galway are roughly the same. And Tipp would be behind Kilkenny, slightly.
So while Kilkenny obviously have crushed all in Leinster, apart from Dublin and Galway occasionally, there's no real indication that they'd be less ruthless if they swapped provinces with Tipp, say.
The other factor is that Kilkenny's dominance has absolutely had a psychological impact on Offaly and Wexford. That's not a great reflection on either county, but it is true. Remember that back in the 90s both Offaly and Wexford won All Ireland, Offaly won 2 in fact. The sooner Cody retires the better :)
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 28, 2012, 10:01:42 AM
As opposed to Munster with the powerhouses of Limerick and Clare over the last 10 years? the only teams that can live with Kilkenny are Tipp and Cork. Maybe ye should go off and form your own province :)
Galway beat the Cats in the championship more recently than Cork did - it was just 7 years ago ;D
That was a great match.
The rot set in the following year down in Thurles with an unmerciful drubbing.
That was some game. Galway have given the cats a couple of good games since then too, I remember a good game on a Saturday evening down in Tullamore too. Galway are one of those teams, along with Cork and Tipp, that always feel they have a chance against the Cats, even if they don't :)
Enda McEvoy had an article a few years ago about 2001 and 2005 when Galway beat the cats as catalysts for what followed- Kilkenny went upwards and Galway went backwards.
Now progress for Galway would be an All-Ireland semi final . But I suppose the county championship is far more important 8)