Galway V Mayo R4 Qualifier

Started by Maroon Manc, July 01, 2019, 10:48:04 AM

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WhoDat

Quote from: macdanger2 on July 08, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
Who actually played MF for Mayo with AOS? Was it Vaughan or Coen? It was hard to see on the TV

Couldn't tell either. Vaughan definitely started there, but Coen seemed to hovering around too. Maybe some rotation between the two?

An Fhairche Abu

Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 08, 2019, 04:38:48 PM
Out of interest if everyone was fit who would be your starting 15 next year?
Very hard to pick a starting 15 for next year, on average the Galway championship panel has had a turnover of nearly a third every year. There's lads on that panel who'll never see a jersey again and if the management is changed all bets are off on the composition of the 2020 panel.

If you had said after the Dublin match last year it would turn out that Antaine O Laoi should have started ahead of Ian Burke in a do or die round 4 qualifier against Mayo, no one would have given any credibility to that statement, yet that's the reality now in July 2019.
2018 starter Cathal Sweeney took an unexpected step back this year from the team, likely someone else will do the same next year.

The only guaranteed starters next year should be Shane Walsh, Damien Comer (assuming this injury hasn't wrecked his career), Tom Flynn and John Daly (assuming that he improves as expected but this young lad has the look of someone who we should be building the HB line around). Ian Burke is a starter as well if this season is a once off and that he gets back to the high level he can play at. Cooke needs to be developed into the player he can be but you couldn't say he's a guaranteed starter yet.
Every other position is up for grabs as far as I'm concerned for a variety of reasons.
I'm really hoping that Molloy and McDaid will turn into the players at IC that they can be, they've done nothing as of yet though. O Laoi needs to hit the gym and improve that aspect.

MayoBuck

Quote from: WhoDat on July 08, 2019, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 08, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
Who actually played MF for Mayo with AOS? Was it Vaughan or Coen? It was hard to see on the TV

Couldn't tell either. Vaughan definitely started there, but Coen seemed to hovering around too. Maybe some rotation between the two?

Vaughan was there at the start but I think Coen moved in to deal with Cooke after half time.

Maroon Manc

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on July 08, 2019, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 08, 2019, 04:38:48 PM
Out of interest if everyone was fit who would be your starting 15 next year?
Very hard to pick a starting 15 for next year, on average the Galway championship panel has had a turnover of nearly a third every year. There's lads on that panel who'll never see a jersey again and if the management is changed all bets are off on the composition of the 2020 panel.

If you had said after the Dublin match last year it would turn out that Antaine O Laoi should have started ahead of Ian Burke in a do or die round 4 qualifier against Mayo, no one would have given any credibility to that statement, yet that's the reality now in July 2019.
2018 starter Cathal Sweeney took an unexpected step back this year from the team, likely someone else will do the same next year.

The only guaranteed starters next year should be Shane Walsh, Damien Comer (assuming this injury hasn't wrecked his career), Tom Flynn and John Daly (assuming that he improves as expected but this young lad has the look of someone who we should be building the HB line around). Ian Burke is a starter as well if this season is a once off and that he gets back to the high level he can play at. Cooke needs to be developed into the player he can be but you couldn't say he's a guaranteed starter yet.
Every other position is up for grabs as far as I'm concerned for a variety of reasons.
I'm really hoping that Molloy and McDaid will turn into the players at IC that they can be, they've done nothing as of yet though. O Laoi needs to hit the gym and improve that aspect.


Agree with that, the likes of Kerin has to get back to the form of last year when he was very disciplined and I wouldn't give up on Sean Andy yet, hopefully he learns from the mistakes of this year. Thankfully the club finals have changed so if Corofin do get there it gives Power, Silke, Wall, Molloy, Burke & Farragher a chance to play in the league. I'm sure we'll find another player or two, John Daly & O'Laoi really stood up and impressed this year.

Despite the media fascination with Mayo's injuries Galway have been hit harder all year, I'd like to think we're due a bit of luck next year  with that regards.

I listened last night to Kevin Walsh who was on yesterday morning on GBFM, sounds like he'll do another year if he gets support from the players and delegates. He's certainly not going to make any quick decision, think we'll have to wait until another 6 weeks to find out.


GetItInTheMixer

The way the league used to be used to  blood players  ideally the manager would take the winter now to blood the likes of Mulkerrins at fullback to see if there is an alternative to/competition for  SAOC, and give the likes of Farragher,  Rob Finnerty, Cein Darcy a proper run of games to see are they strong contenders for places next summer.  However, the way the league is gone and how much pressure there is to stay in Div 1 managers other than Dublin can't really do that any more.  We ended up  last Saturday due to being very unlucky with injuries and lack of availability of Corofin players with questions all over the pitch

- The Keeper situtation was in flux.
- Hadn't seen enough of Liam Silke at corner back as opposed to wing back and he got roasted.
- Kyne brought in out of the cold to play full back tho he did do well.
- McDaid thrown in at midfield for the first time ever outside of a club game. Again did well.
- Branigan starting first game for Galway in ages.
- Full forward was practically on debut
- Cooke playing midfield again despite playing centre forward most of the league

That's a hell of a lot of question marks and hoping things work out  for a crucial knockout game against your biggest rivals. In fairness to Walsh he was dealt as bad a hand as Horan was with injuries though it received much less of the publicity than "crisis hit" Mayo did. Contrast to last year where i think any of us could have named 13 of the starting 15 in our sleep.

Whether he stays on or goes ultimately will come down to the players.  If he hasn't lost the dressing room and they all are happy to commit again next year for him he'll stay. If the senior players think another  way of doing things will kick them on to another level he'll probably go.

mouview

Think the injuries situation is being overplayed somewhat. Bar Comer and maybe Conroy at a stretch, because we have a very ordinary team, none of the injury absentees could be said to be a first teamer or a greater loss than what was available.

As for picking a team for next year, the only attempt I could make at it;

1)  Power (though has to prove that he is much better than Lavelle)

2) ??
3) ??
4) ??

5) ??
6)  John Daly
7) ??  Maybe McDaid, needs to improve his footballing ability

8)  ??
9)  ??

10)  ??
11)  ??
12)  ??

13)  O Laoi, perhaps worth an extended run to see what he's made of
14)  Comer, assuming fully fit
15)  Ian Burke, his prior 2 years have shown that he has the necessary ability at this level

I'm not trying to be smart, leaving so many vacancies, it's just that I really don't think any other player is guaranteed a position, such has been their poor form, particularly this season. In defence, SAOC needs to up it big time, Kerin needs to grow up, stop unnecessary fouling and cop-on, Silke maybe more suited to wing-back, Bradshaw and GOD aren't the future, loyal servants though they are. Flynn probably one midfield berth, though there's many of the better Div. 1 teams he would struggle to make; I'd like to see FOC get a good injury-free run, I think he's a better player than Flynn. D'Arcy one for the future hopefully. In the forwards, Brannigan, Heaney, Ml. Daly (too one-paced) are all of a muchness - again, how many would get on the top teams remaining in the Hateful 8s? Shane Walsh, if he couldn't carry his team the past couple of games, then is he ever going to do it? I know he was being fouled a lot unfairly, but he has to rise above that and lead a team, such is his ability.

It wasn't that the Mayo defeat was a particularly bad night, (they played better than v. Roscommon), it's just that it was the culmination of a long run of bad form. In truth, good games under KW have been very few and far between; ( Kildare in Div II final, Roscommon in Connacht replay in '16, Donegal in qualifier 2 years ago, Kildare last year spring most to mind. It was nice to beat Kerry last year also, but the game itself was drab). If the players are at fault for this, then a new panel is needed. If the management is the cause, then it's time for them to go. Changing nothing, which is still most likely, won't change anything. Meanwhile the fans are staying away in increasing numbers.

WhoDat

Anyone think Kevin Walsh might not go?

GalwayBayBoy

Quote from: WhoDat on July 09, 2019, 01:11:26 PM
Anyone think Kevin Walsh might not go?

I think he's planning to stay on. Didn't step down afterwards. Was interviewed on GBFM since and didn't step down.

Looks like he will have to be pushed or for the players turn against him and Comer has already come out backing him.

Walsh is already having a constant running battle with his "critics" whether they be in the media or online. It just looks like an unhealthy situation where the best thing for all concerned would be a fresh start.

galwayman

#323
Quote from: mouview on July 09, 2019, 01:05:55 PM
Think the injuries situation is being overplayed somewhat. Bar Comer and maybe Conroy at a stretch, because we have a very ordinary team, none of the injury absentees could be said to be a first teamer or a greater loss than what was available.

As for picking a team for next year, the only attempt I could make at it;

1)  Power (though has to prove that he is much better than Lavelle)

2) ??
3) ??
4) ??

5) ??
6)  John Daly
7) ??  Maybe McDaid, needs to improve his footballing ability

8)  ??
9)  ??

10)  ??
11)  ??
12)  ??

13)  O Laoi, perhaps worth an extended run to see what he's made of
14)  Comer, assuming fully fit
15)  Ian Burke, his prior 2 years have shown that he has the necessary ability at this level

I'm not trying to be smart, leaving so many vacancies, it's just that I really don't think any other player is guaranteed a position, such has been their poor form, particularly this season. In defence, SAOC needs to up it big time, Kerin needs to grow up, stop unnecessary fouling and cop-on, Silke maybe more suited to wing-back, Bradshaw and GOD aren't the future, loyal servants though they are. Flynn probably one midfield berth, though there's many of the better Div. 1 teams he would struggle to make; I'd like to see FOC get a good injury-free run, I think he's a better player than Flynn. D'Arcy one for the future hopefully. In the forwards, Brannigan, Heaney, Ml. Daly (too one-paced) are all of a muchness - again, how many would get on the top teams remaining in the Hateful 8s? Shane Walsh, if he couldn't carry his team the past couple of games, then is he ever going to do it? I know he was being fouled a lot unfairly, but he has to rise above that and lead a team, such is his ability.

It wasn't that the Mayo defeat was a particularly bad night, (they played better than v. Roscommon), it's just that it was the culmination of a long run of bad form. In truth, good games under KW have been very few and far between; ( Kildare in Div II final, Roscommon in Connacht replay in '16, Donegal in qualifier 2 years ago, Kildare last year spring most to mind. It was nice to beat Kerry last year also, but the game itself was drab). If the players are at fault for this, then a new panel is needed. If the management is the cause, then it's time for them to go. Changing nothing, which is still most likely, won't change anything. Meanwhile the fans are staying away in increasing numbers.
Ah come on - you're not trying to tell me that Shane Walsh isn't a guaranteed starter on that team surely?
I agree with a lot of the blanks you have as most spots are up for grabs but Shane is our best player by a country mile. he doesn't always produce the goods but he's the first name on that teamsheet imo.
The guy was robbed of an All Star last year - I was at every game league and championship and he was good in almost every game including pretty much dragging us to a Connacht final win.
He had a better year than Ian Burke did for example who got an All Star.
Because of the talent he has people expect him to be brilliant every day.
Sport doesn't work like that unfortunately.

Maroon Manc

Quote from: mouview on July 09, 2019, 01:05:55 PM
Think the injuries situation is being overplayed somewhat. Bar Comer and maybe Conroy at a stretch, because we have a very ordinary team, none of the injury absentees could be said to be a first teamer or a greater loss than what was available.

As for picking a team for next year, the only attempt I could make at it;

1)  Power (though has to prove that he is much better than Lavelle)

2) ??
3) ??
4) ??

5) ??
6)  John Daly
7) ??  Maybe McDaid, needs to improve his footballing ability

8)  ??
9)  ??

10)  ??
11)  ??
12)  ??

13)  O Laoi, perhaps worth an extended run to see what he's made of
14)  Comer, assuming fully fit
15)  Ian Burke, his prior 2 years have shown that he has the necessary ability at this level

I'm not trying to be smart, leaving so many vacancies, it's just that I really don't think any other player is guaranteed a position, such has been their poor form, particularly this season. In defence, SAOC needs to up it big time, Kerin needs to grow up, stop unnecessary fouling and cop-on, Silke maybe more suited to wing-back, Bradshaw and GOD aren't the future, loyal servants though they are. Flynn probably one midfield berth, though there's many of the better Div. 1 teams he would struggle to make; I'd like to see FOC get a good injury-free run, I think he's a better player than Flynn. D'Arcy one for the future hopefully. In the forwards, Brannigan, Heaney, Ml. Daly (too one-paced) are all of a muchness - again, how many would get on the top teams remaining in the Hateful 8s? Shane Walsh, if he couldn't carry his team the past couple of games, then is he ever going to do it? I know he was being fouled a lot unfairly, but he has to rise above that and lead a team, such is his ability.

It wasn't that the Mayo defeat was a particularly bad night, (they played better than v. Roscommon), it's just that it was the culmination of a long run of bad form. In truth, good games under KW have been very few and far between; ( Kildare in Div II final, Roscommon in Connacht replay in '16, Donegal in qualifier 2 years ago, Kildare last year spring most to mind. It was nice to beat Kerry last year also, but the game itself was drab). If the players are at fault for this, then a new panel is needed. If the management is the cause, then it's time for them to go. Changing nothing, which is still most likely, won't change anything. Meanwhile the fans are staying away in increasing numbers.

I can understand why some are been pessimistic but think you're been very harsh especially on Shane Walsh; He's not one of Galways problems. Agree on Daly he hasn't kicked on but would like to see him play under a different manager, not every player has to be blessed with great pace. Agree on Brannigan & Heaney, their good subs to have but I wouldn't have them starting although I do think Brannigan could improve but he's practically missed the whole of this year. Don't agree on FOC, would take Flynn every day over him.

As for injuries when 5 of your 6 midfielders don't start and the 6th has been struggling with injury its bound to affect any team, when I saw the team that started I feared the worst. Add in that Kyne, Comer, Brannigan & McDaid have barely kicked a ball all year and all started its not a great combination

Duine Eile

Quote from: mouview on July 09, 2019, 01:05:55 PM
Think the injuries situation is being overplayed somewhat. Bar Comer and maybe Conroy at a stretch, because we have a very ordinary team, none of the injury absentees could be said to be a first teamer or a greater loss than what was available.

As for picking a team for next year, the only attempt I could make at it;

1)  Power (though has to prove that he is much better than Lavelle)

2) ??
3) ??
4) ??

5) ??
6)  John Daly
7) ??  Maybe McDaid, needs to improve his footballing ability

8)  ??
9)  ??

10)  ??
11)  ??
12)  ??

13)  O Laoi, perhaps worth an extended run to see what he's made of
14)  Comer, assuming fully fit
15)  Ian Burke, his prior 2 years have shown that he has the necessary ability at this level

I'm not trying to be smart, leaving so many vacancies, it's just that I really don't think any other player is guaranteed a position, such has been their poor form, particularly this season. In defence, SAOC needs to up it big time, Kerin needs to grow up, stop unnecessary fouling and cop-on, Silke maybe more suited to wing-back, Bradshaw and GOD aren't the future, loyal servants though they are. Flynn probably one midfield berth, though there's many of the better Div. 1 teams he would struggle to make; I'd like to see FOC get a good injury-free run, I think he's a better player than Flynn. D'Arcy one for the future hopefully. In the forwards, Brannigan, Heaney, Ml. Daly (too one-paced) are all of a muchness - again, how many would get on the top teams remaining in the Hateful 8s? Shane Walsh, if he couldn't carry his team the past couple of games, then is he ever going to do it? I know he was being fouled a lot unfairly, but he has to rise above that and lead a team, such is his ability.

It wasn't that the Mayo defeat was a particularly bad night, (they played better than v. Roscommon), it's just that it was the culmination of a long run of bad form. In truth, good games under KW have been very few and far between; ( Kildare in Div II final, Roscommon in Connacht replay in '16, Donegal in qualifier 2 years ago, Kildare last year spring most to mind. It was nice to beat Kerry last year also, but the game itself was drab). If the players are at fault for this, then a new panel is needed. If the management is the cause, then it's time for them to go. Changing nothing, which is still most likely, won't change anything. Meanwhile the fans are staying away in increasing numbers.

I think Flynn has more to offer than Fiontán to be honest, hard to judge Fiontán in fairness he's had so many injuries and set backs. From listening to the interviews Kevin Walsh has done since Saturday he seems to be coming out fighting and doesn't sound like he's going to step down.

mouview

Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 09, 2019, 02:12:29 PM

I can understand why some are been pessimistic but think you're been very harsh especially on Shane Walsh; He's not one of Galways problems. Agree on Daly he hasn't kicked on but would like to see him play under a different manager, not every player has to be blessed with great pace. Agree on Brannigan & Heaney, their good subs to have but I wouldn't have them starting although I do think Brannigan could improve but he's practically missed the whole of this year. Don't agree on FOC, would take Flynn every day over him.

As for injuries when 5 of your 6 midfielders don't start and the 6th has been struggling with injury its bound to affect any team, when I saw the team that started I feared the worst. Add in that Kyne, Comer, Brannigan & McDaid have barely kicked a ball all year and all started its not a great combination

My problem with Walsh is that you have to wait too long for him and he's inconsistent, although I will agree that he was very good last year. While comparisons with Joe Canning would be grossly unfair, he is our footballing equivalent as a playmaker. Whereas JC might sometimes have quiet games by his standards, there's very few where he doesn't exert some form of influence. Walsh is by miles our most gifted player but when he's quiet, he's usually anonymous, thus it's unsafe to try and construct a forward division around him. With his terrific ability, he should have been able to do more in the past 2 games than we have seen, particularly against Mayo some of whose defenders wouldn't be the quickest at this stage. Michael Daly also has great ability, but almost never takes on an opponent one-to-one. Because he's a half-forward, this means that in possession he has to hold up the ball until a supporting team mate comes along, thus slowing down the play, or pass it inside. He's not able I think to open up the play or create space in an opposing defence.

I omitted Sean Kelly and Peter Cooke in my sermon above, both of whom I hope can push on.

GetItInTheMixer

I didn't see FOC as an U21 apparently he was very good and hugely athletic beside Tom Flynn.  I've seen enough of him since his injuries to say he is not at this point close to being an intercounty level midfield athlete and at 26, 27  i can't see that changing.

I would view the current Galway squad in  tiers

Top Level nailed on starters when fit and healthy

Shane Walsh
Damien Comer
Ian Burke

All 3 on their day with some service are All Star level players.

Very promising lads who can reach the Top level hopefully in next year or two

Molloy
Michael Daly
John Daly
McDaid
Cooke (Possibly needs to be put either in at 11 or 8 and left there)

Solid Reliable lads who won't let anybody down and are still good intercounty starter level

Tom Flynn
Bradshaw
Conroy
Declan Kyne (At corner back not full)

Need to work on some serious consistency/get back to where they were

Sean Andy
Johnny Heaney
Eoin Kerin
Rúairí Lavelle
Eamon Branigan

Jury is Out/Need to see more
Liam Silke
Martin Farragher
Robert Finnerty
Antaine O'Laoi (Needs some bulk but i like him)
Sean Kelly (Can he be more than just "legs"?)

On the bubble for next years pane due to age/lack of playing time etcl
O'Donnell
G. Armstrong
Varley
Power
Cummins
Duane
FOC






thebackbar1

I don't believe it was all down to luck in regard to the injuries, some of the injuries just weren't treated right, nothing to do with luck. If Damian Comer was a Dublin player or a Galway hurler he would of got the best treatment and would of been back playing in May.

Shane is extremely talented, but just not consistent enough.

Tom Flynn has been in pretty good form up until he got injured prior to the Roscommon match, the guy has a lot to offer, as does Fiontán until you can name a player better than him to take his place on the panel, I would of been a lot happier on Saturday before the match if Fiontán was fit to start.

The general vibe I'm hearing is that Kevin will go. He has given it his all,  I do think its time for a change, after hearing the same voice for five years a change is needed. 

GalwayBayBoy

We can fiddle about with the squad all we like but the reality is without a change in management and philosophy they are going to play exactly the same way next year. In fact I reckon Walsh will double down on the defensive system after trying to be slightly more progressive this year and the team falling apart on him. I'm sure he will point at the injuries (with some justification to be fair) and convince himself that's what the real problem was this year.

The real problem is the team have no functioning system of attack apart from everyone playing as individuals, no kick out strategy, a passive defence where everyone retreats inside the 45 and doesn't engage the opposition, no desire to get the ball forward quickly as possible, far too much lateral slow build up, nobody showing for the ball, nobody making runs off the shoulder, etc, etc, etc. The best period Galway had against Mayo the last day is when they finally were forced to push up on them because they were so far behind. They pressured kickouts, turned over the ball higher up the field and scored 0-5 without reply. And missed a penalty on top of it. But it only happened because they were forced into it.