Man Utd Thread:

[EC Unique]

Fair enough Fox. I'll give you that

[J70]

In terms of consistant success and being able to adapt to the massive changes in the game over 30 years.... Not even close. Lets hope he is about for another few seasons as manager.

Well how about someone like Capello then, who has consistently won top leagues in different countries with several clubs?

And while Ferguson is undisputably one of the best of all time and certainly the best in England over the past couple of decades, you're not really comparing like with like when dismissing the likes of Busby or Shankly and others, men who built clubs up from the ground (struggling 2nd division for Shankly, post-war ruins/Munich for Busby) into major European forces and did it at a time when the huge disparity in revenues that now separate a few elite clubs from everyone else did not exist. Ferguson doesn't have to operate on the level playing field those men did and has been breaking transfer records for twenty years. You cannot know if Shankly/Busby would have achieved what Ferguson has done in the modern era, but equally you cannot say that Ferguson would have so over-achieved back in the era of Shankly/Busby/Revie/Clough/Paisley. So yes, he will certainly go down as one of the greatest ever and the most successful, bar none, but the greatest is not quite that simple.

[longrunsthefox]

Clough for me was the man... took Derby from divison 2 to European Cup semi and what he did with those players at Nottingham Forest was phenomenal. Gary Birtles ffs! Archie Gemmill... John Robinson etc... 2 European cups... purely speculation but in a big club with all the dosh today I think he'd clean up.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

In terms of consistant success and being able to adapt to the massive changes in the game over 30 years.... Not even close. Lets hope he is about for another few seasons as manager.

Well how about someone like Capello then, who has consistently won top leagues in different countries with several clubs?

And while Ferguson is undisputably one of the best of all time and certainly the best in England over the past couple of decades, you're not really comparing like with like when dismissing the likes of Busby or Shankly and others, men who built clubs up from the ground (struggling 2nd division for Shankly, post-war ruins/Munich for Busby) into major European forces and did it at a time when the huge disparity in revenues that now separate a few elite clubs from everyone else did not exist. Ferguson doesn't have to operate on the level playing field those men did and has been breaking transfer records for twenty years. You cannot know if Shankly/Busby would have achieved what Ferguson has done in the modern era, but equally you cannot say that Ferguson would have so over-achieved back in the era of Shankly/Busby/Revie/Clough/Paisley. So yes, he will certainly go down as one of the greatest ever and the most successful, bar none, but the greatest is not quite that simple.

When Ferguson took over at United they were in the relegation zone having been beaten 4-1 by Oxford United and hadn't won a title for nearly 20 years. United became part of the modern elite because of Ferguson.

[longrunsthefox]

It helps when you see top player, just buy him... Rooney, Ronaldo etc... Most managers don't have that luxury.

[new devil]

  Yea because both were top players when they came to united!! Fergie made them into top players my freind 

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

It helps when you see top player, just buy him... Rooney, Ronaldo etc... Most managers don't have that luxury.

Before either of those players arrived Ferguson had won 8 league titles, a Champions League, a Cup Winners Cup and 4 FA Cups. He built up his first great United team with decent investment but not substantially more than other teams were shelling out. His second great team was built on home grown stars.

Obviously as the money in English football rocketed, United were a major beneficiary of this and spent accordingly but Ferguson would have been a great manager regardless of transfer budgets. Any suggestion to the contary is nothing but bitterness and jealousy.

[J70]

In terms of consistant success and being able to adapt to the massive changes in the game over 30 years.... Not even close. Lets hope he is about for another few seasons as manager.

Well how about someone like Capello then, who has consistently won top leagues in different countries with several clubs?

And while Ferguson is undisputably one of the best of all time and certainly the best in England over the past couple of decades, you're not really comparing like with like when dismissing the likes of Busby or Shankly and others, men who built clubs up from the ground (struggling 2nd division for Shankly, post-war ruins/Munich for Busby) into major European forces and did it at a time when the huge disparity in revenues that now separate a few elite clubs from everyone else did not exist. Ferguson doesn't have to operate on the level playing field those men did and has been breaking transfer records for twenty years. You cannot know if Shankly/Busby would have achieved what Ferguson has done in the modern era, but equally you cannot say that Ferguson would have so over-achieved back in the era of Shankly/Busby/Revie/Clough/Paisley. So yes, he will certainly go down as one of the greatest ever and the most successful, bar none, but the greatest is not quite that simple.

When Ferguson took over at United they were in the relegation zone having been beaten 4-1 by Oxford United and hadn't won a title for nearly 20 years. United became part of the modern elite because of Ferguson.

They had won the FA Cup the previous year (and in 83). They'd reached a European semi within the previous couple of years also (the same season they came back to beat Barca 3-0 at OT?). In 85-86 they won their first ten games of the season. They'd finished in the top three or four for the previous four seasons. They were, because of a short-term poor run, very briefly in the bottom three in late '86, but they were still one of the leading (and the best supported according to United fans) English clubs in the 80s. Hardly starting from scratch like those earlier men, Paisley aside. But I'm not disputing that Ferguson built them into what they are now or that he is among the best ever.

[J70]

It helps when you see top player, just buy him... Rooney, Ronaldo etc... Most managers don't have that luxury.

Before either of those players arrived Ferguson had won 8 league titles, a Champions League, a Cup Winners Cup and 4 FA Cups. He built up his first great United team with decent investment but not substantially more than other teams were shelling out. His second great team was built on home grown stars.

Obviously as the money in English football rocketed, United were a major beneficiary of this and spent accordingly but Ferguson would have been a great manager regardless of transfer budgets. Any suggestion to the contary is nothing but bitterness and jealousy.

Who is suggesting that?

It is EC asserting that no other manager, anytime, anywhere, even comes close to Ferguson.

[J70]

Yea because both were top players when they came to united!! Fergie made them into top players my freind 

Rooney was already a top player who had starred for England at Euro 2004, as might be suggested by the pricetag of more than 25 million sterling for an 18 year old!

[Jen Cui]

how ya gettin on

[new devil]

Yea because both were top players when they came to united!! Fergie made them into top players my freind 

Rooney was already a top player who had starred for England at Euro 2004, as might be suggested by the pricetag of more than 25 million sterling for an 18 year old!

Top player in the world?? come on J70,Rooney is 3 times the player now than when he came to old trafford!!

[J70]

Yea because both were top players when they came to united!! Fergie made them into top players my freind 

Rooney was already a top player who had starred for England at Euro 2004, as might be suggested by the pricetag of more than 25 million sterling for an 18 year old!

Top player in the world?? come on J70,Rooney is 3 times the player now than when he came to old trafford!!

I didn't say "top player in the world". But he was clearly already a top class player at the time and the most talented young English forward to come through since Owen.

[fearbrags]

In fairness  to  him he  had some success  before  utd  without a  lot  of  funds .Ferguson led Aberdeen  to  a 2–1 victory over Real Madrid in the final of  the  cup  winners  cup    on 11 May 1983.
Perhaps this is his greatest achievement

[magpie seanie]

In fairness  to  him he  had some success  before  utd  without a  lot  of  funds .Ferguson led Aberdeen  to  a 2–1 victory over Real Madrid in the final of  the  cup  winners  cup    on 11 May 1983.
Perhaps this is his greatest achievement

Yeah, smashing the Old Firm dominance was incredible and he brought United to the top without really mad outlay. Some must reckon he should have sat on the funds rather than spend them - like that would be good management!!!!!