FAI...Spring friendlies for Interim Manager - Belgium/Swiss

Started by CĂșig huaire, November 19, 2009, 01:34:00 PM

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Applesisapples

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 06, 2018, 11:33:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 06, 2018, 11:06:02 PM
If nationalists want to play for NI good luck to them but many who consider themselves Irish first and foremost should be free to choose the Republic.

At what stage do they consider themselves Irish first and foremost.

Imagine a 21 year old doesn't feel that strongly while playing League of Ireland and plays for Northern Ireland U-21s but once gets signed for a premier league club comes to the attention of FAI?

How did his real nationality and allegiance allow him play for Northern Ireland in case the Republic don't come calling?

Michael O'Neill well within his rights to ask that Republic don't tap up anyone who had gone to that far with the other crowd.

/Jim.
Surely thats up to the individual and O'Neill is messing with identity politics here and rights afford to nationalists under the GFA. You can't enrol in the schools system in the South if you live in the North. At the end of the day if the FAI stood up to the sectarian supporter base then there might be prospects that many nationalists would accept playing for NI. But this goes to the heart of this statelet, there is no recognition at any level that unto 45% of the population see themselves as Irish.

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Applesisapples on March 07, 2018, 10:41:58 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 06, 2018, 11:33:56 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 06, 2018, 11:06:02 PM
If nationalists want to play for NI good luck to them but many who consider themselves Irish first and foremost should be free to choose the Republic.

At what stage do they consider themselves Irish first and foremost.

Imagine a 21 year old doesn't feel that strongly while playing League of Ireland and plays for Northern Ireland U-21s but once gets signed for a premier league club comes to the attention of FAI?

How did his real nationality and allegiance allow him play for Northern Ireland in case the Republic don't come calling?

Michael O'Neill well within his rights to ask that Republic don't tap up anyone who had gone to that far with the other crowd.

/Jim.
Surely thats up to the individual and O'Neill is messing with identity politics here and rights afford to nationalists under the GFA. You can't enrol in the schools system in the South if you live in the North. At the end of the day if the FAI stood up to the sectarian supporter base then there might be prospects that many nationalists would accept playing for NI. But this goes to the heart of this statelet, there is no recognition at any level that unto 45% of the population see themselves as Irish.

I am not arguing the in and outs of that.  I am saying that if by the time you have reached U-20 level/adult level and haven't made the swith then there is something amiss.  I am guessing that Michael O'Neill feels that if he (and his organisation ) are investing into these players at that level (I accept your schoolboy argument) then they have skin in the game.

Look at the McLean case.  He is plays for U-20s while at Derry City and looks set to join Northern Ireland senior ranks.  Maybe he is uncomfortable with certain aspects that you outline but hey the Republic aren't interested in a League of Ireland player. Next thing Sunderland come calling and Niall Quinn is negotiating his contract.  Quinn says I'll put a word in with Trap and Delaney and hey presto James is a Republic of Ireland player.

You have to see that to a Northern Ireland manager it looks like he was used in that case.  McLean was either perfectly comfortable but saw chance to get to a better team or was uncomfortable
but was happy to suck it up and use them until something better came along.  Otherwise we have to accept that at 22 years of age McLean suddenly realized that Northern Ireland team had no recognition of his 45% of the population.

So I get your argument about Nationalists wanting to play for the Republic and I think they should be allowed.  However, I also get Michael O'Neill's frustrations at lads who stall on exercising that right and use Northern Ireland to further their career. 

All I have argued is that I get where he is coming from.  I don't think it's fair to bring up references to drink etc.. as if it's complete beyond foundation.

/Jim.





JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 07, 2018, 10:26:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 12:10:41 AM
I see /Jim just assumes those tapping up ravings as 100% true .....Jesus weeps again.

I am not particularly interested in whether lads approach the FAI or vice versa.  I am sure there is plenty of hinting etc. done quietly.

What I do accept is the it is particularly galling when a lad who plays U-20 or senior friendly games for Northern Ireland then decides to make the jump.  So whether you think that is fair enough or not, it's surely fair enough for Michael O'Neill to ask his buddy Martin O'Neill to not do that.  If Martin says no dice then fair enough.

However, I think it's a joke that lads go straight for getting personal about Michael O'Neill and alcoholism etc..l as if it's completely out of whack.

/Jim.
Young people will switch allegiance for numerous reasons. Sure didnt Grealish do just that when he thought it would further his career as did Agyei-Tabi as did Crowley as did Bamford as did Keane etc etc etc etc. f**k me the FAI have probably lost more youth players to England than Northern Ireland have to the South but it doesnt fit in with the apartheid crap GAWA like to spin nor does the likes of Gorman or Bruce going the other way and maybe even Scannell if the latest reports are to be believed.
O'Neill is getting grief because you would have thought with his background he might have had a little bit more understanding as to why some of these lads have a dilemma but no and as I said earlier how has he used his position to try and make the team more acceptable to all in Northern Ireland? anyone? the elephants in the room are all still there last time I checked. So if he wants to come up with clownish statements long time after the subject looked dead and buried then people are probably entitled to have a go at him.

Denn Forever

The way it sounded to me was the IFA were talking to the  catholic players as if we don't want  your sort around here.
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

JPGJOHNNYG

One more point the 'investment' by the IFA and FAI into these players is bollox and next to nothing both associations are pretty much relying on the English clubs to develop their players so lets knock that on the head straight away

Tyrone Gaa

Players will look after themselves.  I'm pretty sure that if Niall McGinn was asked to represent ROI he would have jumped at the chance. He wasn't so to play international football he plays for NI and has marked the big stage by scoring at the last European Championships.  He has came out and said that he is a ROI fan.

If the IFA addressed some of the issues that still exist and that created a more welcoming environment for Catholics/Nationalists then I feel in time the want to represent ROI will deteriorate.   

those Issues are (I'm aware they have made progress in a lot of these areas but they still exist, some to a lesser extent):

Anthem
Flag
Supporter Chants/Flags
NI Supporters Clubs/Pubs (Wouldn't feel safe going there for a pint)
Living the dream!!!

From the Bunker

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 07, 2018, 11:41:31 AM
One more point the 'investment' by the IFA and FAI into these players is bollox and next to nothing both associations are pretty much relying on the English clubs to develop their players so lets knock that on the head straight away

Yes they are just Piggybacking on Clubs. There is a bit spent at under 15, but after that the clubs are the main investors!

If Northern Ireland want the Catholic Boys to play for them. They have to look at what will entice them!

smelmoth

Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 12:10:41 AM

I see /Jim just assumes those tapping up ravings as 100% true .....Jesus weeps again.
The FAI have always maintained that if a player calls them up, they respond, that's not tapping up.

Not guilty of a bit of an assumption there yourself?

If FAI say they are not doing it you seem to think that's conclusive proof of it not happening

Main Street

Quote from: smelmoth on March 07, 2018, 12:28:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 12:10:41 AM

I see /Jim just assumes those tapping up ravings as 100% true .....Jesus weeps again.
The FAI have always maintained that if a player calls them up, they respond, that's not tapping up.

Not guilty of a bit of an assumption there yourself?

If FAI say they are not doing it you seem to think that's conclusive proof of it not happening
Guilty my arse,
Where do I say there's conclusive proof of anything? The article was one sided and I just don't swallow hook line and sinker the IFA refrain about the FAI poaching players.

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Tyrone Gaa on March 07, 2018, 12:04:23 PM
Players will look after themselves.  I'm pretty sure that if Niall McGinn was asked to represent ROI he would have jumped at the chance. He wasn't so to play international football he plays for NI and has marked the big stage by scoring at the last European Championships.

Fair enough, so what do you think about Michael O'Neill's point of signing players up to FAI who then win no caps?  Would it be fair enough to have agreement (by both associations), not to tie down a player unless capped? 

That way players would have the option "to look after themselves".  If another McGinn comes along and is ignored by the Republic management and is willing to put aside discomfort of NI trappings, he can at least do that.

/Jim.

Main Street

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 07, 2018, 10:26:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 12:10:41 AM
I see /Jim just assumes those tapping up ravings as 100% true .....Jesus weeps again.

I am not particularly interested in whether lads approach the FAI or vice versa.  I am sure there is plenty of hinting etc. done quietly.

What I do accept is the it is particularly galling when a lad who plays U-20 or senior friendly games for Northern Ireland then decides to make the jump.  So whether you think that is fair enough or not, it's surely fair enough for Michael O'Neill to ask his buddy Martin O'Neill to not do that.  If Martin says no dice then fair enough.

However, I think it's a joke that lads go straight for getting personal about Michael O'Neill and alcoholism etc..l as if it's completely out of whack.

/Jim.
Micheal o'Neill can talk to whoever he wants, but just because he might be galled by something doesn't make it a legitimate gripe.
You don't know the statutes do you? or how they have evolved over the years? or much about  how this Irish eligibility situation has evolved over the last 20 years?
Your hypothetical example is weak and  presumptuous. It's not about an association, it's about the player and his choice, that choice is the equivalent of a constitutional civil right in football parlance. How the IFA "feel" about it has little value when it comes to a player identifying with his/her irish ethnicity and choosing the FAI. Should it not work out for the kid, they can chose to declare for the IFA.  Whisky nose Michael is not even au fait with the statutes on player eligibility.

The statutes exist to protect the choice of the dual national player, for were it any other way, the IFA would certainly tie down any young player to their cause from an early age.


smelmoth

Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 07, 2018, 10:26:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 12:10:41 AM
I see /Jim just assumes those tapping up ravings as 100% true .....Jesus weeps again.

I am not particularly interested in whether lads approach the FAI or vice versa.  I am sure there is plenty of hinting etc. done quietly.

What I do accept is the it is particularly galling when a lad who plays U-20 or senior friendly games for Northern Ireland then decides to make the jump.  So whether you think that is fair enough or not, it's surely fair enough for Michael O'Neill to ask his buddy Martin O'Neill to not do that.  If Martin says no dice then fair enough.

However, I think it's a joke that lads go straight for getting personal about Michael O'Neill and alcoholism etc..l as if it's completely out of whack.

/Jim.
Micheal o'Neill can talk to whoever he wants, but just because he might be galled by something doesn't make it a legitimate gripe.
You don't know the statutes do you? or how they have evolved over the years? or much about  how this Irish eligibility situation has evolved over the last 20 years?
Your hypothetical example is weak and  presumptuous. It's not about an association, it's about the player and his choice, that choice is the equivalent of a constitutional civil right in football parlance. How the IFA "feel" about it has little value when it comes to a player identifying with his/her irish ethnicity and choosing the FAI. Should it not work out for the kid, they can chose to declare for the IFA.  Whisky nose Michael is not even au fait with the statutes on player eligibility.

The statutes exist to protect the choice of the dual national player, for were it any other way, the IFA would certainly tie down any young player to their cause from an early age.

You are being very mature about it all

Whisky nose FFS

smelmoth

Quote from: Denn Forever on March 07, 2018, 11:40:08 AM
The way it sounded to me was the IFA were talking to the  catholic players as if we don't want  your sort around here.

Which specific bit sounded like that to you?

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
Should it not work out for the kid, they can chose to declare for the IFA.  Whisky nose Michael is not even au fait with the statutes on player eligibility.


According to Article 8.1 a player can only request once to change nationality.

Presuming a player has gone through Northern Ireland schoolboy system, he will have request to change to ROI.  Then that is it.  "should it not work out for the kid" he cannot go back.  I understand from O'Neill articles this has happened to players.

With your knowledge of the statues and the history of the eligibility rules can you confirm if this is the case or not?

As an aside why do you continually make the snide references to the man's relationship with alcohol?

/Jim.

Syferus

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 07, 2018, 02:38:42 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
Should it not work out for the kid, they can chose to declare for the IFA.  Whisky nose Michael is not even au fait with the statutes on player eligibility.


According to Article 8.1 a player can only request once to change nationality.

Presuming a player has gone through Northern Ireland schoolboy system, he will have request to change to ROI.  Then that is it.  "should it not work out for the kid" he cannot go back.  I understand from O'Neill articles this has happened to players.

With your knowledge of the statues and the history of the eligibility rules can you confirm if this is the case or not?

As an aside why do you continually make the snide references to the man's relationship with alcohol?

/Jim.

Because he was caught drink driving a few months ago? I have no respect for those who let their vices endanger others.