Sports Funding in NI

[brokencrossbar1]

It is a major bug bearer of soccer only heads that the GAA actually has a more coherent and structure infrastructure in terms of the club scene. I would say it wouldn't be an unreasonable guesstimate that 90% of GAA clubs own their own playing fields and club houses. I'd say it is the polar opposite with soccer clubs. They are generally based around council owned facilities and their 'clubhouse' is the local bar that they meet at before and after the games. That is not a criticism by the way but many clubs that I know from the Carnbane league would operate that way, wobbler can back me up there.

When you go above that level to the clubs that compete at the likes of the Mid Ulster League level then it is becoming more serious but still most clubs do not own their own facilities. As wobbler has stated approximately 90 clubs own their own grounds. As a consequence of that less clubs will be entitled to capital grants that GAA clubs will be entitled to. They do not fit the criterion. Also the reality is that the more established and consistent settled infrastructure means that the GAA clubs have a level of continuity of knowledge and understanding of club management that is not necessarily there on a soccer club.

In Crossmaglen the soccer team was set up in a local pub and named after it. It was run by the owner for years. He stepped away but the club retained the name. They used the school field as their playing pitch and would put soccer goals on the GAA pitch. Eventually the council set up a municipal facility that had a soccer pitch and a GAA pitch. It was left to rack and ruin. It was built beside our home grounds and we had an arrangement with the council which saw us eventually take it over and redevelop it. The soccer pitch is still there but it is now rented off the club by the soccer team. The soccer team still operates, and are half decent, but they are still a pub team.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Nobody is arguing that soccer clubs are structured differently and aren't eligible for this round of funding in the same way.

What I am taking issue with is the claim that the majority that is 99% by numbers given, don't have any structure, constitution, officers, bank accounts, coaches or aren't affiliated with leagues.

The fact calling this patent bullshit out makes you a 'soccer only head' gives shit echo chambers a bad name.

[thewobbler]

Nobody is arguing that soccer clubs are structured differently and aren't eligible for this round of funding in the same way.

What I am taking issue with is the claim that the majority that is 99% by numbers given, don't have any structure, constitution, officers, bank accounts, coaches or aren't affiliated with leagues.

The fact calling this patent bullshit out makes you a 'soccer only head' gives shit echo chambers a bad name.

You didn't listen very much in maths class.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Nobody is arguing that soccer clubs are structured differently and aren't eligible for this round of funding in the same way.

What I am taking issue with is the claim that the majority that is 99% by numbers given, don't have any structure, constitution, officers, bank accounts, coaches or aren't affiliated with leagues.

The fact calling this patent bullshit out makes you a 'soccer only head' gives shit echo chambers a bad name.

You didn't listen very much in maths class.

You claimed there were 40, then 90 clubs, that owned their own land. Maybe. Maybe not. You then claimed they were the only clubs with coaches, officers, members of leagues or had bank accounts. There was a claim that there are 1,000 soccer clubs in the 6c, which seems low considering there are 6,000 in the south. 40 or 90 is <1% of 1,000.

Your problem is you can't keep track of your daft claims.

This shite might fly in your clubhouse, but in the real world you will be pulled on it.

[thewobbler]

What you're doing here BB is wrong.

The entire thread is 8 and a half pages.

Anyone with just 10 minutes on their hands can read every single message. They can also see how few I've edited and when I edited them.

And your version of events is about as close to the truth as James McClean is to to world class.

——

On a side note, what kind of a national sporting association cannot do better than a four-figure guess for the number of clubs actively affiliated to it?

[Baile Brigín 2]

What you're doing here BB is wrong.

The entire thread is 8 and a half pages.

Anyone with just 10 minutes on their hands can read every single message. They can also see how few I've edited and when I edited them.

And your version of events is about as close to the truth as James McClean is to to world class.

——

On a side note, what kind of a national sporting association cannot do better than a four-figure guess for the number of clubs actively affiliated to it?

Feel free to clarify any misinterpretation taken from direct quotes.

I'm not defending the IFA, far from it. But your claims are ludicrous

[thewobbler]

Nobody is arguing that soccer clubs are structured differently and aren't eligible for this round of funding in the same way.

What I am taking issue with is the claim that the majority that is 99% by numbers given, don't have any structure, constitution, officers, bank accounts, coaches or aren't affiliated with leagues.

The fact calling this patent bullshit out makes you a 'soccer only head' gives shit echo chambers a bad name.

You didn't listen very much in maths class.

You claimed there were 40, then 90 clubs, that owned their own land. Maybe. Maybe not. You then claimed they were the only clubs with coaches, officers, members of leagues or had bank accounts. There was a claim that there are 1,000 soccer clubs in the 6c, which seems low considering there are 6,000 in the south. 40 or 90 is <1% of 1,000.

Your problem is you can't keep track of your daft claims.

This shite might fly in your clubhouse, but in the real world you will be pulled on it.

1. I claimed there were circa 90 clubs in NI with their own facilities. I later went with this figure again and mistaken typed in 40, which is what it roughly is for rugby. I came to that figure of 90 by counting up the senior and intermediate registered teams in NI (roughly 120-130), removing the reserve league and any other obvious seconds teams, then scanning through the remaining for sides that obviously co-share, use council facilities, or use school facilities. I don't think I'm going to be too far off the mark. I'd be absolutely shocked if it tops 100.

2. In a very, very separate post I advised that the majority of soccer clubs in NI are unconstituted and unlikely to have a bank account. My back of a few packet calculations would have 600-700 soccer clubs in NI. Yours (from one source, with no references) was for 1,000+. Either way, that's somewhere between 500 and 900 clubs that don't have their own grounds, which means they are ineligible for any form of capital grant.

3. I would follow through on point 2 with the observations on coaching and youth systems. Almost every junior soccer team will do some form of training between 2 and 100 times a year. But unless they run a youth programme, they won't be eligible for anything other than the rarest of coaching grants. The thing you clearly don't  understand is that it's very difficult to run a youth programme without your own facilities, for the cost of renting facilities for through-the-line (u8 to u18) coaching is a daunting prospect, the kind of prospect that can only be appealing to well-run, constituted club with a strong foothold in its area, and a loyal base of volunteers. This is the ultimate catch 22 though. Without a "home" it's so, so difficult to gain a foothold. Almost every club in every sport on the world can identify with a location. If your location is a pub, then it's not like a youth system is part of the offering.

4. At no stage have my numbers been daft.

5. If your annual turnover is less than £2k, a bank account is an expense a club can do without, and an absolute pain in the backside to deposit and withdraw nominal sums of money from. This is why most junior clubs do not bother.

6. The IFA has absolutely no idea how many clubs come under its affiliation, even though in a province this size, one man with a charged phone could define this in a couple of hours.

7. I've made it clear that I'm a former junior soccer player who really enjoys the game.


You're just determined to argue. Which is why you've clung to my typo for a fortnight. It's all you have.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I never disagreed on 1.

2 and 3 are absolutely and patently bollocks. What does 'unconstituted' even mean?

4. They are if you are working off the basis that most soccer clubs dont have underage teams or a bank account.

5. Complete bollocks. Clubs have to pay league affilations, insurance, rent and so on.

6. So you say.

7. You may enjoy the game, but your arguments are patronising in the extreme. The idea that soccer is less valid because of a line of insulting, illogical bullshit. In my town the GAA club are a farce and are being forced to sell up and move to a council facility. They are way behind the soccer and rugby clubs. Thats not typical, but the idea that all GAA clubs are better run than all soccer clubs is utter tosh.

[thewobbler]

2. Unconstituted.

To go back over old ground, we've covered already on this thread. As you're unwilling to learn / accept the difference between a constituted club and an unconstituted one, then you've obviously never even looked at a grant application form for a sporting club, let alone completed one. It's literally question 2 on every form, right after the one about a having a bank account.

You have no business discussing the allocation of sporting grants. Even less so for a different jurisdiction.

[thewobbler]

7. There is no attempt by me to patronise. The purpose of this thread was to discuss was GAA clubs are more successful at gaining capital funding than other sporting bodies in NI. The answer to this is as clear as the clearest thing in transparent land. But then off you go into participation levels and other things that aren't relevant. If you feel patronised it's because you refuse to listen.

[Baile Brigín 2]

7. There is no attempt by me to patronise. The purpose of this thread was to discuss was GAA clubs are more successful at gaining capital funding than other sporting bodies in NI. The answer to this is as clear as the clearest thing in transparent land. But then off you go into participation levels and other things that aren't relevant. If you feel patronised it's because you refuse to listen.

We all agreed why GAA clubs got more in this particular round of funding. Then you went into fuckwit mode and became the sporting wing of Gemma O'Doherty

[Baile Brigín 2]

2. Unconstituted.

To go back over old ground, we've covered already on this thread. As you're unwilling to learn / accept the difference between a constituted club and an unconstituted one, then you've obviously never even looked at a grant application form for a sporting club, let alone completed one. It's literally question 2 on every form, right after the one about a having a bank account.

You have no business discussing the allocation of sporting grants. Even less so for a different jurisdiction.

I know what it means. I'm trying to establish do you and do you understand what you are talking about.

Because every single sports club is constituted. Its absolutely irrelevant to grants

[thewobbler]

2. Unconstituted.

To go back over old ground, we've covered already on this thread. As you're unwilling to learn / accept the difference between a constituted club and an unconstituted one, then you've obviously never even looked at a grant application form for a sporting club, let alone completed one. It's literally question 2 on every form, right after the one about a having a bank account.

You have no business discussing the allocation of sporting grants. Even less so for a different jurisdiction.

I know what it means. I'm trying to establish do you and do you understand what you are talking about.

Because every single sports club is constituted. Its absolutely irrelevant to grants

Every. Single. Sports. Club.

Extraordinarily implausible, yet stated with such conviction. How can you be so oblivious to the fact that when you make such impossibly grandiose claims, it weakens your argument?


Absolutely. Irrelevant. To. Grants.

If you actually genuinely believe this to be true, it's only because you've never looked at a grant application form.

——

The sheer insanity of these statements, when compounded with the "99.9%" calculation earlier, makes thoroughly clear that I'm not dealing with a lucid human being here. So it's over and out from me. Somewhere in between reviewing the (clearly meaningless) constitutions of "every single sports club", I hope you enjoy your celebratory riposte BB. I won't be replying.

[Baile Brigín 2]

So you don't know what the phrase means. My gast is flabbered.

[johnnycool]

The application we put in for a capital grant expected us to have Club Maith status or in the process of working towards it.

That is more than just to be affiliated to the GAA although there's a big push to get all clubs down that road of what is deemed to be the best practices and good governance.

There's a serious amount of work required from the club volunteers to get that in place irrespective of the amount of work in the grant application as well.

Ulster Rugby and the IFA have their own equivalent standards in place and no doubt it can be off putting when looking at Capital Grant funding.

Just saying like.