Ulster JFC/IFC Club 2017

[Tyrone Gaa]

Took in the intermediate final yesterday. Poorish game truth be told. Rostrevors shooting let them down, Moys ability to win easy frees via Sean Cavanagh crucial. Rostrevor were probably a bit too jumped up and their indiscipline cost them. The Moy were very calm and closed the game out well but overall standard wasn't great.

Hard to disagree, I watched Moy vs Newbridge and they were expansive with dangerous attacking options, Rostrevor had their match ups well planned and kept the game tight, Cavanagh was harassed throughout the whole game before his man was sent off, he even got away with giving Cavanagh a bloody nose. Loughran was quiet, I expected more from him. Very defensive game not for the purists. Moy will have their work cut out against Kerry senior side An Gaeltacht, second in Division 1 to Dr Crokes. Anyone know the Kerry system here can explain how they are playing intermediate football?

[Down Follower]

I actually thought the intermediate final was a proper game. Yes there were errors and skill set not quite as high as senior Ulster club but the intensity and effort from both sides could be felt never mind seen.  The atmosphere was unbelievable.  Fair play to both sides.

[ashman]

Took in the intermediate final yesterday. Poorish game truth be told. Rostrevors shooting let them down, Moys ability to win easy frees via Sean Cavanagh crucial. Rostrevor were probably a bit too jumped up and their indiscipline cost them. The Moy were very calm and closed the game out well but overall standard wasn't great.

Hard to disagree, I watched Moy vs Newbridge and they were expansive with dangerous attacking options, Rostrevor had their match ups well planned and kept the game tight, Cavanagh was harassed throughout the whole game before his man was sent off, he even got away with giving Cavanagh a bloody nose. Loughran was quiet, I expected more from him. Very defensive game not for the purists. Moy will have their work cut out against Kerry senior side An Gaeltacht, second in Division 1 to Dr Crokes. Anyone know the Kerry system here can explain how they are playing intermediate football?

Gaeltacht were relegated to intermediate a few years back .  The noughties golden generation of ths o ses , Cinneide , mcgearailt all petered out .  There was nothing coming through till now .  They have some crop now with Hogan cup , minor all Ireland winners etc .   They and Dingle will be a serious force at senior in the coming years .

[Tyrone Gaa]

Took in the intermediate final yesterday. Poorish game truth be told. Rostrevors shooting let them down, Moys ability to win easy frees via Sean Cavanagh crucial. Rostrevor were probably a bit too jumped up and their indiscipline cost them. The Moy were very calm and closed the game out well but overall standard wasn't great.

Hard to disagree, I watched Moy vs Newbridge and they were expansive with dangerous attacking options, Rostrevor had their match ups well planned and kept the game tight, Cavanagh was harassed throughout the whole game before his man was sent off, he even got away with giving Cavanagh a bloody nose. Loughran was quiet, I expected more from him. Very defensive game not for the purists. Moy will have their work cut out against Kerry senior side An Gaeltacht, second in Division 1 to Dr Crokes. Anyone know the Kerry system here can explain how they are playing intermediate football?

Gaeltacht were relegated to intermediate a few years back .  The noughties golden generation of ths o ses , Cinneide , mcgearailt all petered out .  There was nothing coming through till now .  They have some crop now with Hogan cup , minor all Ireland winners etc .   They and Dingle will be a serious force at senior in the coming years .

I'm talking about the Kerry system, An Gaeltacht are obviously playing in the top division in Kerry but play intermediate championship, how does that translate? Does the same happen at Junior? So the Moy are facing a lot of young fellas? From the scores they racked up it will we hard to see how they will be able to come close. Being a Tyrone man I really hope they can but the systems appear from the outside to be questionable.

[Ball Hopper]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

[tonto1888]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

well that clears things up..........

[tiempo]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

well that clears things up..........

It clarifies what is happening in practice and demonstrates that Kerry are wilfully moving the goalposts so as to ensure a higher caliber team enters the Munster and All-Ireland Intermediate and Junior Club Championship. Take note:

3 competitions at national and provincial level - Senior, Intermediate, Junior.
4 competitions at Kerry county level - Senior, Intermediate, Junior, Novice (called junior premier and junior above).
The top club championship in Kerry club football is open to 8 teams, in a county of 58 individual units. This feeds into national and provincial Senior Club.
The second club championship in Kerry club football is open to 16 teams, this feeds into national and provincial Intermediate Club.
The third club championship in Kerry club football is open to 16 teams, this feeds into national and provincial Junior Club.
The fourth (and largest) club championship in Kerry club football is open to 18 teams, this feeds into no national or provincial Club Championship.

The bottom 18 clubs in Kerry are cut out of the running for provincial and national Club Champs, in doing so their representatives at Intermediate and Junior becomes disproportionately strong - as the strongest clubs in the Intermediate and Junior grades are playing a level below what their actual standing would be if they shelved the completely made up grade of novice and went for 3 grades with a more equal weighting on the number of teams per competition.

Therein lies the problem - cute hoorism at its finest.

[Ball Hopper]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

well that clears things up..........

It clarifies what is happening in practice and demonstrates that Kerry are wilfully moving the goalposts so as to ensure a higher caliber team enters the Munster and All-Ireland Intermediate and Junior Club Championship. Take note:

3 competitions at national and provincial level - Senior, Intermediate, Junior.
4 competitions at Kerry county level - Senior, Intermediate, Junior, Novice (called junior premier and junior above).
The top club championship in Kerry club football is open to 8 teams, in a county of 58 individual units. This feeds into national and provincial Senior Club.
The second club championship in Kerry club football is open to 16 teams, this feeds into national and provincial Intermediate Club.
The third club championship in Kerry club football is open to 16 teams, this feeds into national and provincial Junior Club.
The fourth (and largest) club championship in Kerry club football is open to 18 teams, this feeds into no national or provincial Club Championship.

The bottom 18 clubs in Kerry are cut out of the running for provincial and national Club Champs, in doing so their representatives at Intermediate and Junior becomes disproportionately strong - as the strongest clubs in the Intermediate and Junior grades are playing a level below what their actual standing would be if they shelved the completely made up grade of novice and went for 3 grades with a more equal weighting on the number of teams per competition.

Therein lies the problem - cute hoorism at its finest.

But that's the way they ran it before any provincial or All-Ireland intermediate and junior titles were available to win. 

[tiempo]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

well that clears things up..........

It clarifies what is happening in practice and demonstrates that Kerry are wilfully moving the goalposts so as to ensure a higher caliber team enters the Munster and All-Ireland Intermediate and Junior Club Championship. Take note:

3 competitions at national and provincial level - Senior, Intermediate, Junior.
4 competitions at Kerry county level - Senior, Intermediate, Junior, Novice (called junior premier and junior above).
The top club championship in Kerry club football is open to 8 teams, in a county of 58 individual units. This feeds into national and provincial Senior Club.
The second club championship in Kerry club football is open to 16 teams, this feeds into national and provincial Intermediate Club.
The third club championship in Kerry club football is open to 16 teams, this feeds into national and provincial Junior Club.
The fourth (and largest) club championship in Kerry club football is open to 18 teams, this feeds into no national or provincial Club Championship.

The bottom 18 clubs in Kerry are cut out of the running for provincial and national Club Champs, in doing so their representatives at Intermediate and Junior becomes disproportionately strong - as the strongest clubs in the Intermediate and Junior grades are playing a level below what their actual standing would be if they shelved the completely made up grade of novice and went for 3 grades with a more equal weighting on the number of teams per competition.

Therein lies the problem - cute hoorism at its finest.

But that's the way they ran it before any provincial or All-Ireland intermediate and junior titles were available to win.

Well thats ok then, 22 point hammerings for the rest of the Muster Intermediate club cannon fodder will resume in 2018, move along, nothing to see here.

[J70]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

My head is spinning...

[Tyrone Gaa]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

My head is spinning...

Quite the explanation alright, doesn't change the fact that the Kerry system creates an unbalance when it comes to provincial club football. Is An Ghaeltacht one club or an amalgamation of 2 or more clubs?

[Ball Hopper]

This might help (originally posted in the Munster thread)...

An Ghaeltacht (note the correct spelling) did indeed finish second in Division 1 of the County League.  The problem with using the league as a yardstick is the fact that county panel members do not play in any significant amount of league games.   Clubs with a lot of county men suffer if they don't have a very strong panel.  An Ghaeltacht (and Dingle) have produced many fine young players that helped PS Corca Dhuine win two Hogan Cups.  Expect a few to be on the county squad in 2018, which might adversely affect their league results.  An Ghaeltacht and Dingle are both well positioned to do well in the county championship in 2018.

The pecking order in Kerry is 1) county championship 2) club championships 3) divisional board championships 4) county league.  In fact, the county league was only introduced in 1970 to give some games to players who might have been tempted to do other things as the GAA looked likely to abolish Rule 27 (which did happen in 1971).

Win junior, move up to intermediate and win intermediate you will be senior and entitled to "go alone" in the county championship.  Worst senior club drops to intermediate based on all the losers continuing to play until one team is left in the senior club championship (it takes three losses to be demoted).  Relegation from intermediate, meanwhile, is decided by the lowest finishing position in the league of all the first round losers.  Of the 8 first round losers in this year's intermediate, three were in division 3, with St. Michael's/Foilmore finishing at the bottom, thus being regraded to junior for 2018.

The intent in Kerry has been to have 8 senior clubs, 16 intermediate and 16 junior premier and 18 in junior.  That seems to be the bone of contention here, in that division 1 has 11 teams but only 8 are senior. There are 12 teams in div 1-4 and 13 in div 5.  There is also a junior league of 8 divisions, with teams grouped geographically more than quality, but it suffers from a spate of walkovers.

This may all change this week, as there are recommendations being brought to the county board that may result in changing the entire championship structure and timing.  I'm sure they will seek this discussion board's approval on any new format.  Any new format must be ratified at convention on 11 Dec. so get your comments in quickly.

My head is spinning...

Quite the explanation alright, doesn't change the fact that the Kerry system creates an unbalance when it comes to provincial club football. Is An Ghaeltacht one club or an amalgamation of 2 or more clubs?

Amalgamated teams (better known as Divisional) are not allowed enter provincial football.  In the early days, they were allowed with a Kerry divisional team (East Kerry) winning the first one in the early '70's.

The imbalance is obvious, but can Munster Council or Croke Park tell any county how to conduct their business?

[Tyrone Gaa]

Divisional teams are not allowed to compete in provincial competition so I doubt An Ghaeltacht are a divisional side, but are they an almangamaion of dingle and other clubs or is that one area just called An Ghaeltacht?

[Farrandeelin]

Divisional teams are not allowed to compete in provincial competition so I doubt An Ghaeltacht are a divisional side, but are they an almangamaion of dingle and other clubs or is that one area just called An Ghaeltacht?

One club, An Ghaeltacht. Dingle are a separate club. I wish more counties would adopt the Kerry system.

[BennyCake]

Divisional teams are not allowed to compete in provincial competition so I doubt An Ghaeltacht are a divisional side, but are they an almangamaion of dingle and other clubs or is that one area just called An Ghaeltacht?

One club, An Ghaeltacht. Dingle are a separate club. I wish more counties would adopt the Kerry system.

Remember being at their pitch. Not far from Slea Head. That was before Joey and Evans were there.