The ulster rugby trial

[Milltown Row2]

Going on Frank Greaney's tweets it looks like the Jackson's and Olding's stories differ. And they're contradicted by other evidence from various sources. If it does come down to who the jury believe is telling the truth......

It does. As it was always likely to.

I thought that was very telling. The only one who seems to be fairly consistent with their stories is the IP. Today's evidence is not good for Olding and Jackson as they come across as arrogant drunks who have contradictory stories. This will not sit well with the jury.

Unless the 7 lads in the jury like a drink and understand getting pissed can have its moments! And that's that, we dont know how these people are going to go with whats been said

I still believe that there is no real hard evidence to say they raped a girl and stand over it based on the snippets we have heard..

For me this has started out ok and went downhill and rape regret stupidity arrogance and alcohol have all played their part in a crazy night.. something went on but we'll never know, and to be fair they dont seem to know

Do you take some sort of perverse joy out of explaining away problems for likely rapists? You seem be the first line of defence force in this thread.

As much as I hate to agree with you - his entire post history in this thread is somewhat disturbing

Like I give a shit what you or Syferus thinks

[michaelg]

From Frank Greaney in court:

Before going back to Paddy Jackson's house for an afters party, Stuart Olding tells police he drank:

8 tins of Carlsberg
4 pints of Guinness
2 Gin & Tonics
5 vodka lemonades
3 shots of Tequila and Sambuca

I'm not a drinker but I would have thought that this is a fair amount of alcohol to absorb and still be with your senses and on your feet.  Certainly giving a good impression of the off-season professional Ulster rugby player.

By any standards Owen, that's a fairly significant amount of drink.

Thats fairly typical of rugby players.. they have a tradtion of downing a lot of drinks, drinking games and such... I would have a great friend who is an ex rugby player of a fairly high standard and the stories he tells of the tours and the amount of drinks is crazy, not a good man to get into a round with as you are fairly wasted afterwards

the English cricket team used to hve a drinking endurance competition on the flight to Australia. With a bit of practice Olding could be shortlisted

It was the Aussie team going the other way - David Boon was the record holder with 52 cans on the flight in 1989

The English team never beat the record .

Because they didn't try to. A quick google search states that rugby player Mike Tindall tried and failed to beat the record.

[David McKeown]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

[Syferus]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Were they in a a state where they could be reasonably confident that they would know? How are your cognitive functions after 17 pints? The fact that the defendants sounds like they were totally tanked does not help the believability of any of the 'specific details' they've thrown up over the course of this trial.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Like I give a shit what you or Syferus thinks

Gave enough of a shit to post a reply 

[armaghniac]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Were they in a a state where they could be reasonably confident that they would know? How are your cognitive functions after 17 pints? The fact that the defendants sounds like they were totally tanked does not help the believability of any of the 'specific details' they've thrown up over the course of this trial.

How tanked was the accuser?

[smelmoth]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Being consistent/unshakeable is not the same as being believable, compelling or correct.

[Syferus]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Were they in a a state where they could be reasonably confident that they would know? How are your cognitive functions after 17 pints? The fact that the defendants sounds like they were totally tanked does not help the believability of any of the 'specific details' they've thrown up over the course of this trial.

How tanked was the accuser?

Clearly less than 17 pints in.. yikes.

[Milltown Row2]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Were they in a a state where they could be reasonably confident that they would know? How are your cognitive functions after 17 pints? The fact that the defendants sounds like they were totally tanked does not help the believability of any of the 'specific details' they've thrown up over the course of this trial.

Well it's a good thing the girl was sober then

[David McKeown]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Being consistent/unshakeable is not the same as being believable, compelling or correct.

The point I was making is I don't think the trial is going to turn on the issue of did she consent. It might and if the jury believes she did then they will acquit. The more difficult thing I would imagine for them to deliberate over is have they been convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendants did not reasonably belief that in the circumstances she was not consenting. If that's not too many double negatives

[Syferus]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Were they in a a state where they could be reasonably confident that they would know? How are your cognitive functions after 17 pints? The fact that the defendants sounds like they were totally tanked does not help the believability of any of the 'specific details' they've thrown up over the course of this trial.

Well it's a good thing the girl was sober then

The mask has well and truly melted away at this stage.

[Milltown Row2]

I think the biggest issue for the jury in this case isn't going to be whether or not the victim consented (she's been consistent and unshakeable on the point). The issue is going to be proving the defendants didn't reasonably believe she consented.

Were they in a a state where they could be reasonably confident that they would know? How are your cognitive functions after 17 pints? The fact that the defendants sounds like they were totally tanked does not help the believability of any of the 'specific details' they've thrown up over the course of this trial.

Well it's a good thing the girl was sober then

The mask has well and truly melted away at this stage.

What mask ya balloon? I've not made a judgement on it, now carry on being a wally

[Owen Brannigan]

How tanked was the accuser?

From the Irish Times:

The woman, who became tearful on a number of occasions as she gave her evidence, said that on the night in question, she out with friends. They went to a gathering at a house, where she had 1½ large glasses of wine, before they got a taxi at about 10.30pm to Ollie's Nightclub, where she drank about three double vodkas before closing time.

[StGallsGAA]

What is different about Olding & Jackson's version of events ?

About 12 pints

[snoopdog]

These guys will walk.