Messages

Happy the yes side won, surprised by the margin. Hopefully both sides can behave now with a bit of dignity but as can be seen here already that's unlikely.

The size of the result means that your average fianna fail and fine Gael politician can now come out from hiding safe in the knowledge they know what way the wind is blowing

There is no doubt Galway can only dream about being as good as Roscommon.

There will be a huge amount of luck this year in determining who gets to the super 8. For example Roscommon will get to a Connacht final by pretty much playing nobody. Yet Galway played Mayo on the other side, both I would consider top 5 teams. Its possible Mayo could draw a tricky game against a Div 1 team like Tyrone, a Div 2 team like Cavan or away to Armagh. Tyrone could certainly knock them out. So as someone else said its very hard to predict.

Going to sign off for today with this - thank to those who engaged in discussions with me here. I obviously hope you vote yes. I hope you didn't find me too forceful in my opinions. I have strong beliefs but wouldn't want to upset anyone, genuinely.

I hope that when all this is over we can work together for a better Ireland where people's mental and physical health and wellbeing are prioritised first and foremost. Where we have a proper, functioning health service that is free to all and fit for purpose. Where we help people with their mental health and not just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist. It's not survival of the fittest - we're human beings capable of love and empathy and I think this should be our priority. Whatever side of this discussion you're on, if we fix these problems there will be fewer abortions, no matter where they take place.

Well said. I'll be a Yes voter today but absolutely respect the vast majority on the No side who have genuine concerns and will vote No. The extremes on both sides do not represent my opinion. Hope everyone with a vote will use it - it was hard earned.

Carlow are definitely dark horses, they are set up perfectly to beat Kildare on Sunday and if it is Laois they play in the semi final then they have the beating of them. In the League final they malfunctioned in front of goal but were the better team. They obviously won't beat Dublin in the Leinster final but will keep the scoreline respectable and will be one round of qualifiers from the super 8. Last year they were ahead of Monaghan with a few minutes to go and that performance gave a good indication of the level they were at.

If Carlow beat kildare I'll eat a horse.

The debate has depressed me for numerous reasons - mostly that I could see the same strains of populism and disregard for the facts that we have seen in other important democratic moments over the past decade all over the world.

The No campaign in the 2015 same sex marriage referendum, Brexit, Trump and the No campaign in this referendum might as well have all been the same campaign.

The same rhetoric, the same appeals to imagined victimhood, the same bogus claims of "bullying", the same Orwellian claims from pillars of the establishement that they are "anti-establishment", the same trolling, the same avoidance of the real issues.

These people don't take democracy seriously. They are con artists preying on the weak.

Sid - Your contribution on here has been nothing but a turn off to anyone who was wavering in the centre. I expect you have driven more undecideds towards No and away from Yes. You clearly didnt intend to do that so I suggest you take a look at how you have been conducting yourself as I dont see much difference in you and the people you are calling trolls, imagined victims etc

I'm not interested in the hurt feelings of posters, of which there are a lot on this thread.

I'm interested in the reality of the issues - which few enough posters appear to be.

And the reality is by supporting No, people are supporting a hardline extremist position.

That's their prerogative - if people are intent on denying reality, you can never change their minds.

The Yes position and my position couldn't be more centrist here.

I never said you were hurting peoples feelings. I suppose what I am saying is that you commit so much time to putting out the Yes message but you do it is such a way as to actually turn people off voting yes. I afraid that is the definition of stupidity.

His 'extremist' views may well have done this on the board but jaysus when u hear any 'no' campaigner on the radio or tv it would immediately make me vote yes.

Oh absolutely there are some complete nuts on the No side but Sid brands anyone who even considers voting no as being of that ilk despite nobody on here having those views.

I get the impression sid would rather be "right" than actually convince anyone to agree with him.

With all due fairness, when is the last time anyone on this board has been convinced of anything by another?

Well I was undecided when this all started off and between here, listening to debates and thinking it true myself I went against my base urge to disagree with everything you, Bono and Geldoff say and decided to vote Yes.

Sids implication is that people who vote no are just like arseholes like that McGurk fella. Thats bullshit of course but sure Sid doesnt care as he is just the opposite side of the coin to McGurk

The debate has depressed me for numerous reasons - mostly that I could see the same strains of populism and disregard for the facts that we have seen in other important democratic moments over the past decade all over the world.

The No campaign in the 2015 same sex marriage referendum, Brexit, Trump and the No campaign in this referendum might as well have all been the same campaign.

The same rhetoric, the same appeals to imagined victimhood, the same bogus claims of "bullying", the same Orwellian claims from pillars of the establishement that they are "anti-establishment", the same trolling, the same avoidance of the real issues.

These people don't take democracy seriously. They are con artists preying on the weak.

Sid - Your contribution on here has been nothing but a turn off to anyone who was wavering in the centre. I expect you have driven more undecideds towards No and away from Yes. You clearly didnt intend to do that so I suggest you take a look at how you have been conducting yourself as I dont see much difference in you and the people you are calling trolls, imagined victims etc

I'm not interested in the hurt feelings of posters, of which there are a lot on this thread.

I'm interested in the reality of the issues - which few enough posters appear to be.

And the reality is by supporting No, people are supporting a hardline extremist position.

That's their prerogative - if people are intent on denying reality, you can never change their minds.

The Yes position and my position couldn't be more centrist here.

I never said you were hurting peoples feelings. I suppose what I am saying is that you commit so much time to putting out the Yes message but you do it is such a way as to actually turn people off voting yes. I afraid that is the definition of stupidity.

The debate has depressed me for numerous reasons - mostly that I could see the same strains of populism and disregard for the facts that we have seen in other important democratic moments over the past decade all over the world.

The No campaign in the 2015 same sex marriage referendum, Brexit, Trump and the No campaign in this referendum might as well have all been the same campaign.

The same rhetoric, the same appeals to imagined victimhood, the same bogus claims of "bullying", the same Orwellian claims from pillars of the establishement that they are "anti-establishment", the same trolling, the same avoidance of the real issues.

These people don't take democracy seriously. They are con artists preying on the weak.

Sid - Your contribution on here has been nothing but a turn off to anyone who was wavering in the centre. I expect you have driven more undecideds towards No and away from Yes. You clearly didnt intend to do that so I suggest you take a look at how you have been conducting yourself as I dont see much difference in you and the people you are calling trolls, imagined victims etc

Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

The one who said the GP told her to "pop over to England for an abortion" and said Yes canvassers told her a baby with a fatal foetal abnormality was "dead inside with all bit bits hanging out"?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

O Gorman admitted it happened and apologised for it or was I dreaming that happened. Point is there are vile people on both sides if this and what's starting to really annoy me is the yes side constantly on about the vile people on the no side while refusing to acknowledge they have been as bad at times.

He said something along the lines of "I'm very sorry that happened to you" and made reference to the training and instruction Yes side volunteers are supposed to undergo. He didn't specifically apologise for the individual things she claimed, which were clearly, at the very least, embellished.

He had no other option - he wasn't going to pull Mullen and lambast a women who had just shared a very personal and emotional story.

I don't think it was general like that. The way I heard it he was aware of the specific issue, said that his people know they should not be talking like that and he was sorry for it. Anyway, my main point is that there are some equally vile people on both sides of this thing. I see a lot of bullying on twitter from yes people of genuine normal people who are voting No and I think it is wrong. I see it the other way too but that is already being well publicized by the yes side however they are picking on one or two nutjobs on the No side and claiming that they are indicative of the whole No side.

For me, in a very unscientific way, I have heard many people - friends, neighbours etc, give there reason for a No vote and there are basically 3 things.

1- They feel that at 12 weeks the baby is a living being and they do not want to enable the killing of it
2- They feel that legalising it will increase the numbers of abortions
3- They are worried about Down Syndrome and diability tests withing 12 weeks being used and allowing people to abort babies due to what they might become.

I believe those are all legitimate concerns. The people that hold them are not intolerant monsters.

My personal opinion on each is currently...

1- I probably am uncomfortable about this as I dont know when something is considered a child or not. I know it is not conception and I know it is not after birth. I guess this is down to your personal opinion to decide.
2- Also concerned about this but I remind myself that everyone who wants an abortion can get on a 60 min flight anyway and have one so the point is probably not a point.
3- Worried about this but I consider it will only happen it extremely small amount of cases, at least I hope so.

So in summary I will vote yes but with concerns. I will not be demonising anyone who votes no.

Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

The one who said the GP told her to "pop over to England for an abortion" and said Yes canvassers told her a baby with a fatal foetal abnormality was "dead inside with all bit bits hanging out"?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

O Gorman admitted it happened and apologised for it or was I dreaming that happened. Point is there are vile people on both sides if this and what's starting to really annoy me is the yes side constantly on about the vile people on the no side while refusing to acknowledge they have been as bad at times.

Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

[most prominent]

An alt-right (far right) flag hanging from the most prominent "No" campaign stand in the country yesterday.

The same flag was flown at the neo-Nazi demonstrations in Charlottesville last August.

Nobody has to try and "portray" "No" campaigners as extremists.

They reveal their true leanings all by themselves.

Does that flag represent the views of ALL no voters or just the fvcking idiots who happened to think it was a good idea to fly it?

Does EVERY Yes voter agree with Ruth Coppinger that it is the mothers decision to abort up to and including the date of birth?

You've been proven so wrong on this that I'm surprised you haven't rebranded out of embarrassment. Far right rhetoric and tactics are an integral, indivisible part of the No campaign. There is no equivalence whatsoever here between the campaigns. There is one side to blame for the toxicity of this debate and one side only, as is always the case in Irish referendums of this nature.

Like any dog whistling far right extremist does, you love to downplay anything that would embarrass you and any political campaign you support, so it's no surprise to see you downplay the flying of a flag modelled on the Nazi flag from the most prominent No campaign stand in the country.

Again, this is not some obscure corner of the internet we're talking about here - I repeat - it's the most prominent No campaign stand in the country - in front of the GPO, and the No campaign is proudly flying a flag that was flown by racist scum at Charlottesville.

Add to that yesterday's revelation that the No campaign are using an information network used by a network of far right extremist groups, including the NRA.

Add to that prominent No campaigner Niamh Nic Mathuna's links to the European far right - she has spoken alongside Italian fascists.

Add to that prominent No campaigner Justin Barrett's clear links to neo-Nazis in Germany.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/neo-nazis-affirm-links-with-youth-defence-1.1098966
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/barrett-admits-attending-far-right-party-meetings-in-italy-germany-1.1098920
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Barrett#German_Neo-nazi_link

Add to that the dog whistling, bullying, misogynist, at times racist dog whistling from the hordes of flat earther No supporters on Twitter.

The No campaign have, by definition, an absolutist, extremist position.

Therefore it's not surprising that their campaign is full of the influence of the far right - in their rhetoric, in their tactics, and in their beliefs.

I guess you could call them a "basket of deplorables".

To get respect, you have to earn respect. During this campaign, the No side has done precisely nothing to earn respect and everything to prove they are unworthy of it.

There is no way around the fact that the No campaign is extremist.

Wanting to force a 12 year old rape victim to carry a pregnancy to term against her will is an extremist position by any stretch of the imagination.

Wanting to force a victim of incest to carry a pregnancy to term against her will is an extremist position by any stretch of the imagination.

Wanting to deny cancer treatment to pregnant women is an extremist position.

Wanting the state to abandon Irish women is an extremist position.

Voting for all of the above is an extremist position.

The Yes campaign on the other hand couldn't be more mainstream. It's advocating for something every other European country bar Malta has.

It has run a fair and respectful campaign - the polar opposite of its opponents, who have disgraced themselves time and time and time again. It has laid out the facts, put forwards people's personal stories, and shown empathy and compassion.

Ruth Coppinger's personal views on what sort of abortion laws we should have are are irrelevant - but even then I note you refused to provide a link to back up your claim. Coppinger has done a damn sight more for Irish women on her own than the whole of the No campaign put together, by the way.

What have any of the No campaign ever done for Irish women except to try and control them? That's ultimately what it's all about for the No campaign - control.

No more, and long after time.

Lol-proven wrong by who?     You-??

I think it will pass and I will be happy if it does, but the only person your kidding is yourself if you think some on the Yes side don't hold extreme views on when and why an abortion can happen

Zzzzzzzzz.

Believe whatever you want

You can be pro repeal and at the same time find the extreme views of some of the Yes supporters abhorrent

Yes that's where I am too. Voting yes but very uncomfortable with some of the people on "my" side.

The sooner this referendum is over the better. Jesus it's bitter stuff!!

Absolutely, both sides as bad as each other in my opinion. Its depressing.

Katie Ascough. Lol.

She's vile. No wonder she was impeached by UCD. The wonder is how the fook she ever got elected in the first place. A total lightweight too who has nothing more than pre-prepared robo-conservative lines borrowed from evangelical nut jobs in the US. Pat Kenny threw a couple of pretty easy questions at her last month and she tied herself in knots.

I think she is lovely

I think there should be a Mill button for everyone in the crowd. If the game is too defensive & boring fans can press a button demanding an immediate Mill. Being the GAA a 2/3rd a majority is required. Once 66% of people push Mill button, the ball will be burst by the referee signifying that all players are required to beat the shite out of each other with the help of course of back room team and the Maor Usice. Referrees, linesmen and umpires will look at the sky during the Mill and all TV cameras will zoom in on some fine thing in the crowd.

Once the players have seen sense after the mill is complete and a few stern words are had between the ref and captains about the terrible negative football played, a free flowing wonderful game will resume.

Mill buttons will be supplied at an extra cost of 10 euro per patron with Old age Pensioners, students and U12s getting a reduced price of 9.50.

Everyone is a winner.