Football qualifier route 2019

Started by Blowitupref, May 22, 2019, 01:45:27 PM

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trailer

Quote from: BennyCake on June 13, 2019, 04:38:25 PM
Trailer, Armagh played Tyrone in the Rackard semi in Inniskeen, not the Athletic Grounds.

That's a quote from APM. He said it was in the Athletic grounds, not me.


macdanger2

Quote from: trailer on June 13, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
So to be clear. If we don't tier the championship in football and keep things as they are then the gap from Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo, Galway etc to Antrim, Fermanagh, London, Wicklow, Leitrim, Derry etc will narrow and they'll all win provincial and AI titles. Is this what we are saying?

Why are those the only two options you're considering? I think that the current format needs to change but tiered as proposed is not a good idea.

Teams in the 2nd tier will inevitably get less sponsorship and will thus get further and further away from the stronger teams who will get more sponsorship because of more high profile games.

Milltown Row2

If we look at the effort counties put into the playing of Gaelic games there would be ways of improving standards all round, Kilkenny don't bother with football, same way Armagh Tyrone Leitrim and other counties don't bother too much with hurling.

If county boards funded all these sports equally we'd have teams playing a similar levels, as it is we've Dublin destroying everything in sight and it there my not be a tiered system at the minute, but there's Dublin and other teams playing for the prize of runner up
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Sportacus

Quote from: trailer on June 13, 2019, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: APM on June 13, 2019, 10:50:47 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 13, 2019, 10:10:37 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 13, 2019, 09:55:58 AM
A couple of years after the introduction of tiering and Lenny Harbinson won't be getting asked his opinion too often I would say, as Antrim's serene progress into the latter stages of the Mickey Mouse Cup is equally serenely ignored by all and sundry.

Anyone talking about tiering in the context of improving the game in weaker counties is, quite frankly, talking through their hole.

The longer term rationale behind this is to move to an 8 team semi professional set up, the introduction of the super 8's and tiering are just waystations on the road to this. Getting the GPA in-house and onboard was another one of these.

John Horan and the Croke Park suits won't say this publicly of course, and I would give Horan the benefit of the doubt on this as he thinks he is being a leader when in fact he is a follower, but high ranking GPA members and media sources who are less inhibited have been openly advocating this for quite a number of years.

Antrim's current progress is currently being ignored by all and sundry. Who's not going to turn up now? Antrim attendances are pathetic. An Ulsterbus would ferry their support about for God's sake. And we haven't even brought in tiering.

If you think this is about an 8 team semi professional setup then I'm afraid it is you who is "talking through their hole"

Can you please define who the "Croke Park suits" are? Names? Where the come from? How they got the jobs? Job terms?

"high ranking GPA members and media sources who are less inhibited have been openly advocating this for quite a number of years." Has it crossed your mind that the reason they have been advocating for this is because it might actually help the game?


Whose game is it going to help?

We have tiering in hurling? We're you in the Athletic Grounds last Saturday to see Tyrone being beaten by Armagh in the Rackard Cup.  I'd be shocked if there was 200 at it. 

Whose game is it going to help? It will give the media a product that they want which appears to be Croke Park's over riding objective and it seems to be media support that is one of their key performance indicators.  It will also help those with an "elitism" agenda - which I suspect includes yourself. 

What has Croke Park done to promote the GAA in Ireland's second city.  One of the biggest counties in Ireland is being increasingly lost to the GAA.  Some of the blame lies in Antrim, but if HQ gave even half the attention to Belfast as it does to Dublin in the last 10 years, Antrim would be in a much stronger position now.

We have tiering in hurling? We're you in the Athletic Grounds last Saturday to see Tyrone being beaten by Armagh in the Rackard Cup.  I'd be shocked if there was 200 at it. 

And what is a typical Tyrone crowd at a Hurling game before tiering?
I was at the USFC quarter final in the Athletic Grounds between Tyorne and Antrim and there was 5000 at it, with about 500 Antrim fans. Top level intercounty GAA game and that's the level of interest.

Antrim would want to sort themselves out for f**ks sake. Blame the GAA and these Croke park suits all you want but the reality here is that Antrim GAA can barely tog a senior team out in same jerseys. Time people got real and stopped looking for excuses. Antrim and many other Div 3 & 4 teams are basket cases. Look at the mess Offaly is in. No point looking to the GAA when they can't even organise the basics. They don't deserve to be in the same competition until they learn to treat it with a little respect.
Trailer you need to stop winding yourself up about Antrim.  Not good for you.

BennyCake

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 13, 2019, 11:28:59 PM
If we look at the effort counties put into the playing of Gaelic games there would be ways of improving standards all round, Kilkenny don't bother with football, same way Armagh Tyrone Leitrim and other counties don't bother too much with hurling.

If county boards funded all these sports equally we'd have teams playing a similar levels, as it is we've Dublin destroying everything in sight and it there my not be a tiered system at the minute, but there's Dublin and other teams playing for the prize of runner up

That's what last years AI final felt like. Tyrone proved to be the best of the rest, and their reward wasn't really a place in the AI final, or Tyrone competing for Sam. It was just they who will be stuffed by Dublin. I think most people sensed that. Even Tyrone people.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 13, 2019, 11:28:59 PM
If we look at the effort counties put into the playing of Gaelic games there would be ways of improving standards all round, Kilkenny don't bother with football, same way Armagh Tyrone Leitrim and other counties don't bother too much with hurling.

If county boards funded all these sports equally we'd have teams playing a similar levels, as it is we've Dublin destroying everything in sight and it there my not be a tiered system at the minute, but there's Dublin and other teams playing for the prize of runner up

That's what last years AI final felt like. Tyrone proved to be the best of the rest, and their reward wasn't really a place in the AI final, or Tyrone competing for Sam. It was just they who will be stuffed by Dublin. I think most people sensed that. Even Tyrone people.

So it's not the two best teams fighting it out in a final, it's really just the other counties fighting it out to get duffed by Dublin, ah I get it now, makes perfect sense, a non tiered competition to become a runner up. Cool set up
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

BennyCake

#231
Technically, I suppose they were the two best teams, but it was a foregone conclusion the Dubs would win. Probably the most likely AI win in recent times. I can't recall one as certain as last years. And I don't say that just to piss Tyrone folk off. I'd say many of them would agree.

Hound

Quote from: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 12:30:35 AM
Technically, I suppose they were the two best teams, but it was a foregone conclusion the Dubs would win. Probably the most likely AI win in recent times. I can't recall one as certain as last years. And I don't say that just to piss Tyrone folk off. I'd say many of them would agree.
Yep, that was the first reasonably comfortable All Ireland final win for Dublin.
You must be very young if you can't remember Kerry waltzing All Ireland finals. Or Kilkenny in hurling.

Farrandeelin

Quote from: Hound on June 15, 2019, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 12:30:35 AM
Technically, I suppose they were the two best teams, but it was a foregone conclusion the Dubs would win. Probably the most likely AI win in recent times. I can't recall one as certain as last years. And I don't say that just to piss Tyrone folk off. I'd say many of them would agree.
Yep, that was the first reasonably comfortable All Ireland final win for Dublin.
You must be very young if you can't remember Kerry waltzing All Ireland finals. Or Kilkenny in hurling.

3 and 2 half waltzes for Kerry in my lifetime. Dublin were comfortable enough in 15 as well if I recall correctly.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

BennyCake

Quote from: Hound on June 15, 2019, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 12:30:35 AM
Technically, I suppose they were the two best teams, but it was a foregone conclusion the Dubs would win. Probably the most likely AI win in recent times. I can't recall one as certain as last years. And I don't say that just to piss Tyrone folk off. I'd say many of them would agree.
Yep, that was the first reasonably comfortable All Ireland final win for Dublin.
You must be very young if you can't remember Kerry waltzing All Ireland finals. Or Kilkenny in hurling.

Aye, it turned out that way on the day. But few would have predicted a certain Kilkenny win or a big margin of victory. Even Kerry's wins, none were clear cut beforehand. Dublin's last year was.

Lone Shark

Quote from: Hound on June 15, 2019, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 12:30:35 AM
Technically, I suppose they were the two best teams, but it was a foregone conclusion the Dubs would win. Probably the most likely AI win in recent times. I can't recall one as certain as last years. And I don't say that just to piss Tyrone folk off. I'd say many of them would agree.
Yep, that was the first reasonably comfortable All Ireland final win for Dublin.
You must be very young if you can't remember Kerry waltzing All Ireland finals. Or Kilkenny in hurling.


This is as anecdotal as it gets because it's a sample size of one, but it's the first All Ireland final in living memory that I didn't watch, because I knew it was a foregone conclusion. I never felt that about any Kilkenny or Kerry final, and I don't ever recall any final featuring either of those two where it was impossible to find any decent pundit even entertain the possibility that an upset might happen.

Admittedly I would have watched it if it was Dublin against Monaghan, since I felt that Monaghan were in a good place last year and I would have given them a genuine 5/1 or 6/1 chance of causing a shock. But that didn't happen so I went down the road and watched Portumna hurling against Loughrea instead. I'll do the same for this year's final as well unless some county shows a huge upturn in form in advance of the decider, because right now, there is no county out there that would stay within six points of the Dubs. 

Moreover, it's not like watching Dublin is even enjoyable - they aren't six points better because they display a huge array of skills and deliver breathtaking scores. That's not to say they're not able to, it's that they choose not to. We see low risk football, lots of running, lots of movement, retain the ball and wear the opposition down type stuff, until eventually someone can get a clean shot away from 30 yards out. I don't blame Dublin for that, it's very effective - but it's painfully monotonous. I'd watch Ciarán Kilkenny play for Castleknock all day, because he's allowed use his full range of skills. Watching him play for Dublin is incredibly dull.

Hound

Quote from: BennyCake on June 15, 2019, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 15, 2019, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 14, 2019, 12:30:35 AM
Technically, I suppose they were the two best teams, but it was a foregone conclusion the Dubs would win. Probably the most likely AI win in recent times. I can't recall one as certain as last years. And I don't say that just to piss Tyrone folk off. I'd say many of them would agree.
Yep, that was the first reasonably comfortable All Ireland final win for Dublin.
You must be very young if you can't remember Kerry waltzing All Ireland finals. Or Kilkenny in hurling.
I think that's revisionist Benny
Kerry had 2 finals v Mayo where Mayo were given no chance and Kerry delivered with ease.
Kilkenny had finals against Limerick and Waterford where the only thing in doubt was whether the opposition would get within 10 points.

Dublin have been lucky to win 4 in a row, in that Mayo absolutely deserved to win at least one, arguably two. Kerry's 4 in a row was probably much easier won.

Kerry's 5 in a row minors was rarely in doubt. And Kerry probably favourites at both minor and U20 this year. Although how they do it without GDOs i'll never know (maybe because GDOs have zero to do with any player within an asses roar of intercounty development squads)



Aye, it turned out that way on the day. But few would have predicted a certain Kilkenny win or a big margin of victory. Even Kerry's wins, none were clear cut beforehand. Dublin's last year was.

BennyCake

Mayo 2006 were definitely in with a shout. 2004 maybe not just as much, but neither were a foregone conclusion. Last year, I thought the lead up to the final was very low key for an AI final. And my all accounts, there was plenty of tickets going. I think that said a lot about what the inevitability of the result.

Kilkenny were a formidable team then, and I suppose strong favourites. The margin of victories were big, but I don't think it was a total inevitably about that beforehand. Maybe hurling people might disagree.

From the Bunker

Quote from: BennyCake on June 15, 2019, 11:11:03 PM
Mayo 2006 were definitely in with a shout. 2004 maybe not just as much, but neither were a foregone conclusion. Last year, I thought the lead up to the final was very low key for an AI final. And my all accounts, there was plenty of tickets going. I think that said a lot about what the inevitability of the result.

Kilkenny were a formidable team then, and I suppose strong favourites. The margin of victories were big, but I don't think it was a total inevitably about that beforehand. Maybe hurling people might disagree.

The media and Mayo fans went blindly into the '04 final. We were well warned for the '06 final. 90% of fans went to that final wanting Mayo just to be competitive!

Owenmoresider

Quote from: From the Bunker on June 15, 2019, 11:58:33 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 15, 2019, 11:11:03 PM
Mayo 2006 were definitely in with a shout. 2004 maybe not just as much, but neither were a foregone conclusion. Last year, I thought the lead up to the final was very low key for an AI final. And my all accounts, there was plenty of tickets going. I think that said a lot about what the inevitability of the result.

Kilkenny were a formidable team then, and I suppose strong favourites. The margin of victories were big, but I don't think it was a total inevitably about that beforehand. Maybe hurling people might disagree.

The media and Mayo fans went blindly into the '04 final. We were well warned for the '06 final. 90% of fans went to that final wanting Mayo just to be competitive!
The nature of their semi-final wins in both years would have played a part in the expectation in the build-up I suppose.

Agree with the comments on last year's final, watched it but only half-heartedly as the outcome was inevitable. For all Kilkenny's dominance of hurling since 2006 there wasn't a final where there was that same feeling. The only proper blowout win was in 2008 and that wasn't anticipated, even if them winning was. And like LS I don't particularly enjoy watching Dublin play anyway for the reasons stated.