GAA must 'reach out' to unionism

[trueblue1234]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

Ffs you'll all over the place. Sometimes best to stop digging. That last post is a complete embarrassment.

[Main Street]

To this day Unionism still denies that NI was founded as a toxic statelet, with an inbuilt institutionalised form of  apartheid, that discrimination was even an issue in the 1950s and 1960s, that the civil rights movement had justification, and that violence against the oppressive statelet had a context (whether one agrees with such methods or not).   
Now we still have Unionism as an ideology still clinging to the garb of a social&political privilege by birth, some even pretend to put on the liberal cloak of 'equality for all' (a loose fit indeed),  use the pretext of some GAA clubs who commemorate IRA members as a reason to justify their barely concealed bigotry and condescension against the GAA.
That the great barrier preventing  Unionists from 'reaching out' to the GAA is the grubby uncouth nationalist dominated GAA,  not their own bigotry.

Fine, I might or might not join a soccer club that celebrates some ideologically defunct UDA neanderthals but I wouldn't use that as a context not to join another football club or moan about state support for that sport or prevent that sport being played in all schools just because it openly memorializes racist sadistic British imperialism on an annual basis.
Personally I don't agree with the sentiment that the GAA 'must reach out to Unionism'.  If schools are to receive  state funding for education and sports then it should be mandated that all major sports be made available to their pupils.

[seafoid]

In Sambo McNaughton's Laochra Gael he described being stopped at a checkpoint where 4 hurls were destroyed in front of him.

Unionism would need to do some repenting.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Personally I don't agree with the sentiment that the GAA 'must reach out to Unionism'..

And that is fine. But Croke Park and the Ulster Council are committed to that goal and take funding to achieve it.

That to me is the issue - can't play both sides here. If the 6c GAA want to be a nationalist sport for a nationalist people, crack on. Do things like this. If the GAA as a whole are singing kumbya then these things need to stop or be stopped.

[trueblue1234]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

[trueblue1234]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

That's fair enough. My point through this is the poppy and IRA memorials should be viewed on the same level with regards to cross community appeal.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

That's fair enough. My point through this is the poppy and IRA memorials should be viewed on the same level with regards to cross community appeal.

Maybe. Maybe not. We have to deal with the simple reality that one os a government led thing and one isn't though.

[trueblue1234]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

That's fair enough. My point through this is the poppy and IRA memorials should be viewed on the same level with regards to cross community appeal.

Maybe. Maybe not. We have to deal with the simple reality that one os a government led thing and one isn't though.

And you also have to consider the actions of that government.
Put a poll up and see what nationalists views are on the poppy. When it comes to cross community appeal that's all that matters. I think we've had enough of people telling us how we should be thinking.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

That's fair enough. My point through this is the poppy and IRA memorials should be viewed on the same level with regards to cross community appeal.

Maybe. Maybe not. We have to deal with the simple reality that one os a government led thing and one isn't though.

And you also have to consider the actions of that government.
Put a poll up and see what nationalists views are on the poppy. When it comes to cross community appeal that's all that matters. I think we've had enough of people telling us how we should be thinking.

I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that for right or wrong, social convention is to wear the poppy.  This monument is an outlier

[trueblue1234]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

That's fair enough. My point through this is the poppy and IRA memorials should be viewed on the same level with regards to cross community appeal.

Maybe. Maybe not. We have to deal with the simple reality that one os a government led thing and one isn't though.

And you also have to consider the actions of that government.
Put a poll up and see what nationalists views are on the poppy. When it comes to cross community appeal that's all that matters. I think we've had enough of people telling us how we should be thinking.

I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that for right or wrong, social convention is to wear the poppy.  This monument is an outlier

No offence, you think that because you are happy to listen to the propaganda from the English media. I will not support a charity or organisation that commentates  state murders nor should anyone.

[Orior]

My club is named after a 17th century raparee - an Irishman who was a pain in the neck of the planters.

Should I hang my head in shame?

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are Republicans commemorating them or the GAA?

If you were familiar with the area, you'd be speedily reassured that it's both.

I never said it was wrong. I said there may be consequences.

Incorrect. You did not say there "may" be consequences. You said there should be consequences (and went as far as to explain that they should be financial ones). Which kinda is saying that it was wrong.

Poppy fascism is a huge problem, but it's state sanctioned, like it or not.

And? Erecting a memorial to Republican Volunteers isn't illegal in the state either. Yet you are saying the club "should be excluded from Stormont funding". So it's not about what is or is not state sanctioned. It's just you, giving your view, on what remembrances/commemorations should face punishment/sanction. As it stands, you are only applying that to this one commemoration for three IRA volunteers. Which is telling. So my question remains the same: Soccer clubs /teams in the north, including the north's own soccer team, wear poppy armbands and hold minutes silences for British war dead. This in spite of Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy etc. Should they too be stripped of Stormont funding, or should sanctions only exist for commemorations of Republicans?

This is pure whataboutery.

Any club that commemorates in this manner is clearly not cross community and should not be able to tap money for that purpose. It is not comparable with whether we like it or not is a national poppy mess.

Again. They can do what they want on their clubs ground, but give over with the headscratching over why themmuns aren't interested

Again, on one hand you are saying that you "never said the memorial was wrong", but on the other, are once again calling for the club to be punished for it.

And you might think, form the comfort of Balbriggan, that the Poppy debate is not a parallel. It's not enough to just clain it's not a parallel. Try to explain why it's not. For those in the north who endured the British Army, it's a perfectly valid parallel. And if you disagree then are you seriously suggesting that the poppy, especially in the north of Ireland, IS cross community? Of course it's not. It raises funds for retired soldiers like those who shot dead 14 civil rights protesters in Derry. Very telling that you excuse a sports body like the IFA for allowing such a political commemoration on their property, but only lambaste a republican memorial in a rural GAA club as being "not cross-community" and worthy of financial punishment. It's a level of hypocrisy that's just beyond the beyond.

I am saying they are entitled to put up anything they want but on the basis the GAA are claiming to be cross community they have crossed a line. We can't make statements like the GAA and militant Republicanism are the same thing and complain when unionists object.

I am not condoning poppies, but they aren't an IFA thing. They are a Broader British thing the IFA fall into. It's not an equivalence.

But if you are offended by poppies and support this unreservedly you are a hypocrite

Yes Poppies ARE a British thing. Kinda my point. Does promoting British War narrative strike you as a cross community action? Or is it only wrong when the GAA is seen to fail on the cross community front? You say you don't condone poppies but you are being entirely inconsistent because you are keen to excuse poppy campaigns purely on the basis that it's something backed by the British State -the same state that had an active policy of assassination of its own citizens.  ut sure tI suppose that was OK because it was state thing?

And as for saying its hypocritical to be offended by poppies and to support the Clonoe event. That's an odd position to take for you, considering you have spent your last few posts arguing that the reverse is somehow not hypocritical. There's nothing hypocritical in my position: if political commemorations are OK in soccer grounds, then they are OK on GAA grounds. And vice versa. So either you actively condemn both, or you condemn neither and just live with the ones you might nit like. That's what I'm doing. You are being hypocritical.

I am saying that like it or not poppies are an.official state war fetish. It's not the same as an individual club throwing up a monument and it's weak to suggest a real world equivalence.

That poppies are a British State fetishism is not one bit relevant. The issue is whether political commemorations should happen in sports grounds. You also claimed yourself that the issue with the Clonoe event is that it goes against a cross community ethos of the club. That poppies are a British state thing doesn't suddenly make them cross community. The IFA claim to be cross community, but they hold commemorations for the British War dead in Windsor Park. In the six counties the poppy is every but as contentious for nationalism as symbols or memorials to republican paramilitaries are to unionism. Thats just a matter of fact here. Maybe if you lived through the conflict, you wouldn't need that spelled out to you. So you dont get to decide that the poppy isnt contentious here, or decide that the discomfort/offence they cause to nationalists should be just acceptable because its a state symbol. So like I say, it's as simple as this: either all sporting grounds should be free from contentious political symbols/events, or none have to be. Picking and choosing is just politically motivated bias.

If you think I am describing poppies as not being contentious you are deliberately being obtuse.

Clubs with a nationalist or mixed fanbase don't troop the colour or wear poppies. Those with unionist fanbases do. Don't like it myself, but that's the reality. So claiming 6 county soccer = poppies is incorrect.

If nationalists refuse to go and see Norn Iron or Glentoran because of their poppies those are the consequences for those clubs of taking that stance. Consequences that Clonoe apparantly shouldn't have to face. Don't like poppies at a soccer club? Play for or support another one. What option does someone in Clonoe who objects have GAA wise?

It's not a GAA v soccer thing. It's a what one club did thing.

So you think money should be withheld from NI football or Glentoran as well as Clonoe?

Glentoran yes. Ni soccer is trickier as not all units troop the colour. Derry City are in that bracket...

But in general if you wear a poppy as policy or unveil memorials to Volunteers you are placing yourself outside the cross commuunity space and should not have access to peace and love funding

That's fair enough. My point through this is the poppy and IRA memorials should be viewed on the same level with regards to cross community appeal.

Maybe. Maybe not. We have to deal with the simple reality that one os a government led thing and one isn't though.

And you also have to consider the actions of that government.
Put a poll up and see what nationalists views are on the poppy. When it comes to cross community appeal that's all that matters. I think we've had enough of people telling us how we should be thinking.

I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that for right or wrong, social convention is to wear the poppy.  This monument is an outlier

No offence, you think that because you are happy to listen to the propaganda from the English media. I will not support a charity or organisation that commentates  state murders nor should anyone.

Try that one again...

[Baile Brigín 2]

My club is named after a 17th century raparee - an Irishman who was a pain in the neck of the planters.

Should I hang my head in shame?

Is there a significant population of Wexford likely to be offended by the name?